Guest guest Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 Kulbir Jee & Varun Jee, Mein shuru se hee apni baat mein ulajh gaya thaa jab meine RATTI AUR RATTAK ko alag alag samjha thaa, aur apne aap ko dilasa dene ke liye hee kuchh na kuchh udharan(galat) de raha thaa, jabki RATTI AUR RATTAK ek hee hai, mein apni galti manta hoo. iska weightin farmula mein likh rahan hoon umeed hai ki yeh sahi hoga..... 8 KHASKHAS BRABAR hotey hain 1 CHAWAL (8khaskhas=1 chawal) 8 CHAWAL BRABAR hotey hain 1 RATTI (8chawal=1 ratti) 8 RATTI BRABAR hotey hain 1 MASHA (8 ratti= 1 masha) 12 MASHA BRABAR hotey hain 1 tola (12 masha=1 tola) kripya note karein ki ek tola app. 12 gms. ( purana tola) aajkal ek tola hota hai 10 grams ka. apni galti ki ek baar aap sab se kshama mangta hoon.yahan mein galat hoon usko manne mein mujhko koi sharam nahi. MAHAJAN. , kulbir bance <kulbirbance wrote: > > Mahajan ji, > > lal rang munh sayah. Agar is tarazu ki dandi par lal rang > hota hai to munh yani head ya face baki portion ko mana jaye. Agar > dandi ko sira mane to kitab ke hisab se sayah rang ki hona chahiye aur > baki sab lal rang. > > Regards. > > Kulbir. > > > > > > > On 3/7/09, heartzthief54 heartzthief54 wrote: > > Varun Jee, > > > > Rattak(tarazu) kee jo bodi hoti hai yahan se usko pakad (tolne ke liye) > > wahan par aam taur lal rang kiya hota hai yeh aap chahe to tarazu mein > > dekh sakte hai.khana no 7 TULA RASHI . tula kya hai yeh aap bhee jante > > hain. > > > > MAHAJAN. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " varun_trvd " > > varun_trvd@ wrote: > >> > >> > >> Respected Mahajan ji, > >> > >> > >> > >> Rattak has been defined as ' lal rang munh syaah; jo sona tolne ke > > kaam > >> aati hai'. > >> > >> Do you want us to believe that the small taraju has a red colour with > >> its mouth as black? > >> > >> If not, then it can be nothing else but the ratti seed. > >> > >> Thankfully the rattak had been defined within brackets. > >> > >> With respect and regards, > >> > >> Varun Trivedi > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> , " heartzthief54 " > >> heartzthief54@ wrote: > >> > > >> > > >> > Varun Jee & Other Members, > >> > > >> > Ratti par chali behas (meri gairhaziri mein, kyonki mein delhi gaya > >> thaa > >> > apne business tour par aur Umesh Jee se bhee mila thaa)ko dekh kar > >> bahut > >> > hee nirasha huee , Brahspati khana no 7 rattak ko yard rang kapde > > mein > >> > rakhne ko kaha gaya hai na ki RATTI ko. > >> > > >> > Mujhe bhee kai baar aakar kai log LAL KITAB walo ka yeh bataya hua > >> upay > >> > dikhate hain ki unho ne kaha(jiske pass woh gaye they Brahspati > > khana > >> no > >> > 7 wale jatak) ki aap ghar mein ratti ko zard ya piley/yellow kapde > >> mein > >> > bandh kar rakhe or woh ratti kya hai yeh jankari lene mere paas aate > >> > hain. > >> > > >> > Aur yahan bhee yehi sab kuchh ho raha hai , sab log ratti ke pichhey > >> > pade hain , rattak ko koi nahi pakad paya.Yehi baat Umesh jee se > > bhee > >> > huee thee woh saff maan gaye ki unki punjabi bhasha par pakad nahi, > >> > meine unko bataya ki ratti nahi rattak(woh shayad iss behas ko > >> padh/dekh > >> > rahe theey mein nahi ) chahiye woh bhee tabhi karein agar ghar mein > >> hai > >> > to special lene mat jaye,yehi Varun jee ne bhee likha hai, lekin woh > >> > bhee ratti keh rahe hain , jabki unhone Brahspati khana no 7 ke > > baare > >> > mein saaf saaf likha hai ki > >> > > >> > mandi halat ki nishani ghar mein rattak [ lal rang aur munh syah, > > sona > >> > tolne ke kaam ati hai] ya mangal bud ki ashiya hongi. Jinko ko > >> > brahaspati ki ashiya [ zard kapara, sona vagairah] ke saath mila kar > >> > rakhana madadgar hoga.Mandi halat mein Chandra ka upaya madadgar > >> > hoga " [ 1952 urdu ed ; page 281] > >> > > >> > Abb dhayan se pade aur bataye ki RATTAK kya hai ? Sab log hairan na > > ho > >> > Rattak hee Ratti nahi hota. > >> > > >> > Adhkachra gyan kitna khatarnak ho sakta hai yeh sab aap jaan gaye > >> honge > >> > ,kyonki ratti aur RATTAk mein zammen aasmaan ka farak hai. > >> > > >> > ASAL MEIN RATTAK WOH HOTA HAI JISMEIN RATTI KO TOLA JAYE YANI KI > > CHHTA > >> > SA TARAZU. > >> > > >> > Purane samay mein yeh aamtuar par gharo mein mill jaya karta thaa , > >> > bilkul chhta sa tarazu ,kyonki tab log kapde ghar mein hee > >> rang(colour) > >> > karte they, chhti chhoti vastu(masala aadi) ghar mein hee tol liya > >> karte > >> > theay.kripya yahan par tarazu ko yellow kapde mein rakhwayein na ki > >> > ratti ko.abb LK ki statement dhayan se pade SONA TOLNE KE KAAM AATI > >> HAI. > >> > Sona kis se tola jayega ????????? > >> > > >> > PANDIT DEE BODI MEEN MANGDI. > >> > > >> > yahan par chander kee sahayta lein yani ki aise jatak jinka > > brahspati > >> > khana no 7 mein ho woh meen(barsat) mein nahaye. > >> > > >> > Yeh dono baatein RATTAK AUR BODI issliye likh rahan hoon ki aapko > > bodi > >> > aur tarazu ka connection samjh aa jaye. > >> > > >> > Har baar mujhko yeh likhne mein sharam mahsoos hone lagi hai ki koi > >> > galti huee ho to kshama chahta hoo.lekin fir bhee aap sab se kshama > >> > chahta hoon ki mein aapke brabar gyani nahi hoon lekin lal kitab ke > >> > baare mein thoda sa gyan rakhta hoon. > >> > > >> > MAHAJAN > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Dear Varun ji, > >> > > > >> > > Thank you for explaning the Jupiter 7th upaya. I never knew that > >> > keeping rattis along with gold is a precaution. I thought that it is > >> an > >> > upaya. > >> > > > >> > > Respectfully, > >> > > > >> > > HS Gill > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > , " varun_trvd " > > varun_trvd@ > >> > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > Respected Gill Saheb, > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > It is not true. > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > Ratti is not being used as a material for upaya. On the contrary > >> it > >> > is a > >> > > > precaution against rattis kept at home. Read the actual extract > >> from > >> > the > >> > > > book : > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > “ mandi halat ki nishani ghar mein rattak [ lal rang aur > >> munh > >> > > > syah, sona tolne ke kaam ati hai] ya mangal bud ki ashiya hongi. > >> > Jinko > >> > > > ko brahaspati ki ashiya [ zard kapara, sona vagairah] ke saath > >> mila > >> > kar > >> > > > rakhana madadgar hoga. > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > Mandi halat mein Chandra ka upaya madadgar hoga�� [ 1952 > >> urdu > >> > ed ; > >> > > > page 281] > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > 'The indications of malefic effects will be the rattis or the > >> other > >> > > > karak objects of ashubh mars kept at home. Keeping such objects > >> > along > >> > > > with the karak objects of Jupiter will be helpful. > >> > > > > >> > > > For malefic effects of Jupiter in the 7th the upaya of moon will > >> be > >> > > > helpful.' > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > It is unfortunate that some astrologers advise to keep rattis > > with > >> > gold > >> > > > wrapped in a yellow cloth for Jupiter in the 7th. Where as the > >> book > >> > is > >> > > > very clear about it. It warns that if some one has already kept > >> > rattis > >> > > > at home or any other karak object of ashubh Mars, then these > >> objects > >> > > > should be kept along with the objects signifying Jupiter. It > > will > >> be > >> > > > absurd to arrange for the rattis and then keep them along with > >> gold. > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > The correct upaya for Jupiter in the 7th house will be taking > > the > >> > help > >> > > > of Moon by establishing silver/rice etc at home. > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > Regards, > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > Varun Trivedi > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > , " gill_hs2005 " > >> > > > <gill_hs2005@> wrote: > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Shri Varun ji, > >> > > > > > >> > > > > If the ratti is so inauspicious then why is it used as an > > upaya > >> > for > >> > > > Jupiter in the 7th house? It is recommended that rattis be kept > >> with > >> > > > gold in a yellow cloth.Respectfully, > >> > > > > > >> > > > > HS Gill > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > , " varun_trvd " > >> > varun_trvd@ > >> > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Respected Juneja ji, > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > It is a bright shining red colour seed with a black spot on > > it > >> > and > >> > > > is known by various names like Ratti / gunchi / gunja / chirmi > >> etc. > >> > It > >> > > > is a seed of a creeper very commonly found all over India. The > >> seeds > >> > are > >> > > > dangerously poisonous. These seeds had been traditionally used > > for > >> > > > weighing gold and precious gems. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > I do not know about other parts of the country but in > > western > >> UP > >> > > > these seeds are considered as very inauspicious so much so that > >> > these > >> > > > seeds are not allowed into the village let alone the house. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > It is generally believed that the presence of these seeds in > > a > >> > > > family or a village will cause quarrels amongst brothers. These > >> > seeds > >> > > > are quite often used in a ‘totka’. If some one is > >> > > > interested in creating rift between brothers then a few of these > >> > seeds > >> > > > are thrown into the house. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > As kids we were fascinated by the shining bright red colour > > of > >> > these > >> > > > seeds and would stealthily bring them home. When found, would > > get > >> a > >> > > > thrashing of our lives. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > The awe and the evil power of these seeds got so ingrained > > in > >> > our > >> > > > psyche that even today I shudder at the very mention of these > >> seeds. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Regards, > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Varun Trivedi > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > , " junejanarendra " > >> > > > <junejanarendra@> wrote: > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Sirs, > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Could some one please tell me something about Ratti seeds? > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Respectfully > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Narendra Juneja > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > -- > Sent from my mobile device > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 Respected Mahajan ji, I am really touched by your humility. All of us make mistakes. There is nothing to feel bad about it. In this group we all share our views freely. It is not to belittle any one or to prove that any one of us has more knowledge than the other. With even greater respect, Varun Trivedi , " heartzthief54 " <heartzthief54 wrote: > > Kulbir Jee & Varun Jee, > > Mein shuru se hee apni baat mein ulajh gaya thaa jab meine RATTI AUR > RATTAK ko alag alag samjha thaa, aur apne aap ko dilasa dene ke liye hee > kuchh na kuchh udharan(galat) de raha thaa, jabki RATTI AUR RATTAK ek > hee hai, mein apni galti manta hoo. > > iska weightin farmula mein likh rahan hoon umeed hai ki yeh sahi > hoga..... > > 8 KHASKHAS BRABAR hotey hain 1 CHAWAL (8khaskhas=1 chawal) > > 8 CHAWAL BRABAR hotey hain 1 RATTI (8chawal=1 > ratti) > > 8 RATTI BRABAR hotey hain 1 MASHA (8 ratti= 1 > masha) > > 12 MASHA BRABAR hotey hain 1 tola (12 > masha=1 tola) > > kripya note karein ki ek tola app. 12 gms. ( purana tola) aajkal ek tola > hota hai 10 grams ka. > > apni galti ki ek baar aap sab se kshama mangta hoon.yahan mein galat > hoon usko manne mein mujhko koi sharam nahi. > > MAHAJAN. > > > > > > > > , kulbir bance > <kulbirbance@> wrote: > > > > Mahajan ji, > > > > lal rang munh sayah. Agar is tarazu ki dandi par lal rang > > hota hai to munh yani head ya face baki portion ko mana jaye. Agar > > dandi ko sira mane to kitab ke hisab se sayah rang ki hona chahiye aur > > baki sab lal rang. > > > > Regards. > > > > Kulbir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/7/09, heartzthief54 heartzthief54@ wrote: > > > Varun Jee, > > > > > > Rattak(tarazu) kee jo bodi hoti hai yahan se usko pakad (tolne ke > liye) > > > wahan par aam taur lal rang kiya hota hai yeh aap chahe to tarazu > mein > > > dekh sakte hai.khana no 7 TULA RASHI . tula kya hai yeh aap bhee > jante > > > hain. > > > > > > MAHAJAN. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " varun_trvd " > > > varun_trvd@ wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> Respected Mahajan ji, > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Rattak has been defined as ' lal rang munh syaah; jo sona tolne ke > > > kaam > > >> aati hai'. > > >> > > >> Do you want us to believe that the small taraju has a red colour > with > > >> its mouth as black? > > >> > > >> If not, then it can be nothing else but the ratti seed. > > >> > > >> Thankfully the rattak had been defined within brackets. > > >> > > >> With respect and regards, > > >> > > >> Varun Trivedi > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> , " heartzthief54 " > > >> heartzthief54@ wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Varun Jee & Other Members, > > >> > > > >> > Ratti par chali behas (meri gairhaziri mein, kyonki mein delhi > gaya > > >> thaa > > >> > apne business tour par aur Umesh Jee se bhee mila thaa)ko dekh > kar > > >> bahut > > >> > hee nirasha huee , Brahspati khana no 7 rattak ko yard rang kapde > > > mein > > >> > rakhne ko kaha gaya hai na ki RATTI ko. > > >> > > > >> > Mujhe bhee kai baar aakar kai log LAL KITAB walo ka yeh bataya > hua > > >> upay > > >> > dikhate hain ki unho ne kaha(jiske pass woh gaye they Brahspati > > > khana > > >> no > > >> > 7 wale jatak) ki aap ghar mein ratti ko zard ya piley/yellow > kapde > > >> mein > > >> > bandh kar rakhe or woh ratti kya hai yeh jankari lene mere paas > aate > > >> > hain. > > >> > > > >> > Aur yahan bhee yehi sab kuchh ho raha hai , sab log ratti ke > pichhey > > >> > pade hain , rattak ko koi nahi pakad paya.Yehi baat Umesh jee se > > > bhee > > >> > huee thee woh saff maan gaye ki unki punjabi bhasha par pakad > nahi, > > >> > meine unko bataya ki ratti nahi rattak(woh shayad iss behas ko > > >> padh/dekh > > >> > rahe theey mein nahi ) chahiye woh bhee tabhi karein agar ghar > mein > > >> hai > > >> > to special lene mat jaye,yehi Varun jee ne bhee likha hai, lekin > woh > > >> > bhee ratti keh rahe hain , jabki unhone Brahspati khana no 7 ke > > > baare > > >> > mein saaf saaf likha hai ki > > >> > > > >> > mandi halat ki nishani ghar mein rattak [ lal rang aur munh syah, > > > sona > > >> > tolne ke kaam ati hai] ya mangal bud ki ashiya hongi. Jinko ko > > >> > brahaspati ki ashiya [ zard kapara, sona vagairah] ke saath mila > kar > > >> > rakhana madadgar hoga.Mandi halat mein Chandra ka upaya madadgar > > >> > hoga " [ 1952 urdu ed ; page 281] > > >> > > > >> > Abb dhayan se pade aur bataye ki RATTAK kya hai ? Sab log hairan > na > > > ho > > >> > Rattak hee Ratti nahi hota. > > >> > > > >> > Adhkachra gyan kitna khatarnak ho sakta hai yeh sab aap jaan gaye > > >> honge > > >> > ,kyonki ratti aur RATTAk mein zammen aasmaan ka farak hai. > > >> > > > >> > ASAL MEIN RATTAK WOH HOTA HAI JISMEIN RATTI KO TOLA JAYE YANI KI > > > CHHTA > > >> > SA TARAZU. > > >> > > > >> > Purane samay mein yeh aamtuar par gharo mein mill jaya karta thaa > , > > >> > bilkul chhta sa tarazu ,kyonki tab log kapde ghar mein hee > > >> rang(colour) > > >> > karte they, chhti chhoti vastu(masala aadi) ghar mein hee tol > liya > > >> karte > > >> > theay.kripya yahan par tarazu ko yellow kapde mein rakhwayein na > ki > > >> > ratti ko.abb LK ki statement dhayan se pade SONA TOLNE KE KAAM > AATI > > >> HAI. > > >> > Sona kis se tola jayega ????????? > > >> > > > >> > PANDIT DEE BODI MEEN MANGDI. > > >> > > > >> > yahan par chander kee sahayta lein yani ki aise jatak jinka > > > brahspati > > >> > khana no 7 mein ho woh meen(barsat) mein nahaye. > > >> > > > >> > Yeh dono baatein RATTAK AUR BODI issliye likh rahan hoon ki aapko > > > bodi > > >> > aur tarazu ka connection samjh aa jaye. > > >> > > > >> > Har baar mujhko yeh likhne mein sharam mahsoos hone lagi hai ki > koi > > >> > galti huee ho to kshama chahta hoo.lekin fir bhee aap sab se > kshama > > >> > chahta hoon ki mein aapke brabar gyani nahi hoon lekin lal kitab > ke > > >> > baare mein thoda sa gyan rakhta hoon. > > >> > > > >> > MAHAJAN > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Dear Varun ji, > > >> > > > > >> > > Thank you for explaning the Jupiter 7th upaya. I never knew > that > > >> > keeping rattis along with gold is a precaution. I thought that it > is > > >> an > > >> > upaya. > > >> > > > > >> > > Respectfully, > > >> > > > > >> > > HS Gill > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > , " varun_trvd " > > > varun_trvd@ > > >> > wrote: > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > Respected Gill Saheb, > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > It is not true. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > Ratti is not being used as a material for upaya. On the > contrary > > >> it > > >> > is a > > >> > > > precaution against rattis kept at home. Read the actual > extract > > >> from > > >> > the > > >> > > > book : > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > “ mandi halat ki nishani ghar mein rattak [ lal rang > aur > > >> munh > > >> > > > syah, sona tolne ke kaam ati hai] ya mangal bud ki ashiya > hongi. > > >> > Jinko > > >> > > > ko brahaspati ki ashiya [ zard kapara, sona vagairah] ke > saath > > >> mila > > >> > kar > > >> > > > rakhana madadgar hoga. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > Mandi halat mein Chandra ka upaya madadgar hoga�� [ > 1952 > > >> urdu > > >> > ed ; > > >> > > > page 281] > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > 'The indications of malefic effects will be the rattis or the > > >> other > > >> > > > karak objects of ashubh mars kept at home. Keeping such > objects > > >> > along > > >> > > > with the karak objects of Jupiter will be helpful. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > For malefic effects of Jupiter in the 7th the upaya of moon > will > > >> be > > >> > > > helpful.' > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > It is unfortunate that some astrologers advise to keep rattis > > > with > > >> > gold > > >> > > > wrapped in a yellow cloth for Jupiter in the 7th. Where as > the > > >> book > > >> > is > > >> > > > very clear about it. It warns that if some one has already > kept > > >> > rattis > > >> > > > at home or any other karak object of ashubh Mars, then these > > >> objects > > >> > > > should be kept along with the objects signifying Jupiter. It > > > will > > >> be > > >> > > > absurd to arrange for the rattis and then keep them along > with > > >> gold. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > The correct upaya for Jupiter in the 7th house will be taking > > > the > > >> > help > > >> > > > of Moon by establishing silver/rice etc at home. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > Regards, > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > Varun Trivedi > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > , " gill_hs2005 " > > >> > > > <gill_hs2005@> wrote: > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Shri Varun ji, > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > If the ratti is so inauspicious then why is it used as an > > > upaya > > >> > for > > >> > > > Jupiter in the 7th house? It is recommended that rattis be > kept > > >> with > > >> > > > gold in a yellow cloth.Respectfully, > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > HS Gill > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > , " varun_trvd " > > >> > varun_trvd@ > > >> > > > wrote: > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Respected Juneja ji, > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > It is a bright shining red colour seed with a black spot > on > > > it > > >> > and > > >> > > > is known by various names like Ratti / gunchi / gunja / > chirmi > > >> etc. > > >> > It > > >> > > > is a seed of a creeper very commonly found all over India. > The > > >> seeds > > >> > are > > >> > > > dangerously poisonous. These seeds had been traditionally > used > > > for > > >> > > > weighing gold and precious gems. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > I do not know about other parts of the country but in > > > western > > >> UP > > >> > > > these seeds are considered as very inauspicious so much so > that > > >> > these > > >> > > > seeds are not allowed into the village let alone the house. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > It is generally believed that the presence of these seeds > in > > > a > > >> > > > family or a village will cause quarrels amongst brothers. > These > > >> > seeds > > >> > > > are quite often used in a ‘totka’. If some one > is > > >> > > > interested in creating rift between brothers then a few of > these > > >> > seeds > > >> > > > are thrown into the house. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > As kids we were fascinated by the shining bright red > colour > > > of > > >> > these > > >> > > > seeds and would stealthily bring them home. When found, would > > > get > > >> a > > >> > > > thrashing of our lives. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > The awe and the evil power of these seeds got so > ingrained > > > in > > >> > our > > >> > > > psyche that even today I shudder at the very mention of these > > >> seeds. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Regards, > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Varun Trivedi > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > , > " junejanarendra " > > >> > > > <junejanarendra@> wrote: > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Sirs, > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Could some one please tell me something about Ratti > seeds? > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Respectfully > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Narendra Juneja > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Sent from my mobile device > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 Mahajan ji, u see it happens but unlike u none of group members gave ur like percentage quotient like u said that u were 101% in disagreement and it was u who outrightedly blamed us the group with negative attitude whose only purpose was to find faults in the book but u can see we made every effort to understand ur point of view. There was yet another haughty line that unlike us u were concerned to help people through lalkitab. Now in retrospect you can see how many people u actually helped by keeping scales alongwith gold in yellow cloth. Plz remember always hadh se zyada wafadari aur gaddari mein sirf mamuli sa farq hota hai. Regards. Kulbir. On 3/9/09, heartzthief54 <heartzthief54 wrote: > Kulbir Jee & Varun Jee, > > Mein shuru se hee apni baat mein ulajh gaya thaa jab meine RATTI AUR > RATTAK ko alag alag samjha thaa, aur apne aap ko dilasa dene ke liye hee > kuchh na kuchh udharan(galat) de raha thaa, jabki RATTI AUR RATTAK ek > hee hai, mein apni galti manta hoo. > > iska weightin farmula mein likh rahan hoon umeed hai ki yeh sahi > hoga..... > > 8 KHASKHAS BRABAR hotey hain 1 CHAWAL (8khaskhas=1 chawal) > > 8 CHAWAL BRABAR hotey hain 1 RATTI (8chawal=1 > ratti) > > 8 RATTI BRABAR hotey hain 1 MASHA (8 ratti= 1 > masha) > > 12 MASHA BRABAR hotey hain 1 tola (12 > masha=1 tola) > > kripya note karein ki ek tola app. 12 gms. ( purana tola) aajkal ek tola > hota hai 10 grams ka. > > apni galti ki ek baar aap sab se kshama mangta hoon.yahan mein galat > hoon usko manne mein mujhko koi sharam nahi. > > MAHAJAN. > > > > > > > > , kulbir bance > <kulbirbance wrote: >> >> Mahajan ji, >> >> lal rang munh sayah. Agar is tarazu ki dandi par lal rang >> hota hai to munh yani head ya face baki portion ko mana jaye. Agar >> dandi ko sira mane to kitab ke hisab se sayah rang ki hona chahiye aur >> baki sab lal rang. >> >> Regards. >> >> Kulbir. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 3/7/09, heartzthief54 heartzthief54 wrote: >> > Varun Jee, >> > >> > Rattak(tarazu) kee jo bodi hoti hai yahan se usko pakad (tolne ke > liye) >> > wahan par aam taur lal rang kiya hota hai yeh aap chahe to tarazu > mein >> > dekh sakte hai.khana no 7 TULA RASHI . tula kya hai yeh aap bhee > jante >> > hain. >> > >> > MAHAJAN. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > , " varun_trvd " >> > varun_trvd@ wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> Respected Mahajan ji, >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Rattak has been defined as ' lal rang munh syaah; jo sona tolne ke >> > kaam >> >> aati hai'. >> >> >> >> Do you want us to believe that the small taraju has a red colour > with >> >> its mouth as black? >> >> >> >> If not, then it can be nothing else but the ratti seed. >> >> >> >> Thankfully the rattak had been defined within brackets. >> >> >> >> With respect and regards, >> >> >> >> Varun Trivedi >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> , " heartzthief54 " >> >> heartzthief54@ wrote: >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Varun Jee & Other Members, >> >> > >> >> > Ratti par chali behas (meri gairhaziri mein, kyonki mein delhi > gaya >> >> thaa >> >> > apne business tour par aur Umesh Jee se bhee mila thaa)ko dekh > kar >> >> bahut >> >> > hee nirasha huee , Brahspati khana no 7 rattak ko yard rang kapde >> > mein >> >> > rakhne ko kaha gaya hai na ki RATTI ko. >> >> > >> >> > Mujhe bhee kai baar aakar kai log LAL KITAB walo ka yeh bataya > hua >> >> upay >> >> > dikhate hain ki unho ne kaha(jiske pass woh gaye they Brahspati >> > khana >> >> no >> >> > 7 wale jatak) ki aap ghar mein ratti ko zard ya piley/yellow > kapde >> >> mein >> >> > bandh kar rakhe or woh ratti kya hai yeh jankari lene mere paas > aate >> >> > hain. >> >> > >> >> > Aur yahan bhee yehi sab kuchh ho raha hai , sab log ratti ke > pichhey >> >> > pade hain , rattak ko koi nahi pakad paya.Yehi baat Umesh jee se >> > bhee >> >> > huee thee woh saff maan gaye ki unki punjabi bhasha par pakad > nahi, >> >> > meine unko bataya ki ratti nahi rattak(woh shayad iss behas ko >> >> padh/dekh >> >> > rahe theey mein nahi ) chahiye woh bhee tabhi karein agar ghar > mein >> >> hai >> >> > to special lene mat jaye,yehi Varun jee ne bhee likha hai, lekin > woh >> >> > bhee ratti keh rahe hain , jabki unhone Brahspati khana no 7 ke >> > baare >> >> > mein saaf saaf likha hai ki >> >> > >> >> > mandi halat ki nishani ghar mein rattak [ lal rang aur munh syah, >> > sona >> >> > tolne ke kaam ati hai] ya mangal bud ki ashiya hongi. Jinko ko >> >> > brahaspati ki ashiya [ zard kapara, sona vagairah] ke saath mila > kar >> >> > rakhana madadgar hoga.Mandi halat mein Chandra ka upaya madadgar >> >> > hoga " [ 1952 urdu ed ; page 281] >> >> > >> >> > Abb dhayan se pade aur bataye ki RATTAK kya hai ? Sab log hairan > na >> > ho >> >> > Rattak hee Ratti nahi hota. >> >> > >> >> > Adhkachra gyan kitna khatarnak ho sakta hai yeh sab aap jaan gaye >> >> honge >> >> > ,kyonki ratti aur RATTAk mein zammen aasmaan ka farak hai. >> >> > >> >> > ASAL MEIN RATTAK WOH HOTA HAI JISMEIN RATTI KO TOLA JAYE YANI KI >> > CHHTA >> >> > SA TARAZU. >> >> > >> >> > Purane samay mein yeh aamtuar par gharo mein mill jaya karta thaa > , >> >> > bilkul chhta sa tarazu ,kyonki tab log kapde ghar mein hee >> >> rang(colour) >> >> > karte they, chhti chhoti vastu(masala aadi) ghar mein hee tol > liya >> >> karte >> >> > theay.kripya yahan par tarazu ko yellow kapde mein rakhwayein na > ki >> >> > ratti ko.abb LK ki statement dhayan se pade SONA TOLNE KE KAAM > AATI >> >> HAI. >> >> > Sona kis se tola jayega ????????? >> >> > >> >> > PANDIT DEE BODI MEEN MANGDI. >> >> > >> >> > yahan par chander kee sahayta lein yani ki aise jatak jinka >> > brahspati >> >> > khana no 7 mein ho woh meen(barsat) mein nahaye. >> >> > >> >> > Yeh dono baatein RATTAK AUR BODI issliye likh rahan hoon ki aapko >> > bodi >> >> > aur tarazu ka connection samjh aa jaye. >> >> > >> >> > Har baar mujhko yeh likhne mein sharam mahsoos hone lagi hai ki > koi >> >> > galti huee ho to kshama chahta hoo.lekin fir bhee aap sab se > kshama >> >> > chahta hoon ki mein aapke brabar gyani nahi hoon lekin lal kitab > ke >> >> > baare mein thoda sa gyan rakhta hoon. >> >> > >> >> > MAHAJAN >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Dear Varun ji, >> >> > > >> >> > > Thank you for explaning the Jupiter 7th upaya. I never knew > that >> >> > keeping rattis along with gold is a precaution. I thought that it > is >> >> an >> >> > upaya. >> >> > > >> >> > > Respectfully, >> >> > > >> >> > > HS Gill >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > , " varun_trvd " >> > varun_trvd@ >> >> > wrote: >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > Respected Gill Saheb, >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > It is not true. >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > Ratti is not being used as a material for upaya. On the > contrary >> >> it >> >> > is a >> >> > > > precaution against rattis kept at home. Read the actual > extract >> >> from >> >> > the >> >> > > > book : >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > “ mandi halat ki nishani ghar mein rattak [ lal rang > aur >> >> munh >> >> > > > syah, sona tolne ke kaam ati hai] ya mangal bud ki ashiya > hongi. >> >> > Jinko >> >> > > > ko brahaspati ki ashiya [ zard kapara, sona vagairah] ke > saath >> >> mila >> >> > kar >> >> > > > rakhana madadgar hoga. >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > Mandi halat mein Chandra ka upaya madadgar hoga�� [ > 1952 >> >> urdu >> >> > ed ; >> >> > > > page 281] >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > 'The indications of malefic effects will be the rattis or the >> >> other >> >> > > > karak objects of ashubh mars kept at home. Keeping such > objects >> >> > along >> >> > > > with the karak objects of Jupiter will be helpful. >> >> > > > >> >> > > > For malefic effects of Jupiter in the 7th the upaya of moon > will >> >> be >> >> > > > helpful.' >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > It is unfortunate that some astrologers advise to keep rattis >> > with >> >> > gold >> >> > > > wrapped in a yellow cloth for Jupiter in the 7th. Where as > the >> >> book >> >> > is >> >> > > > very clear about it. It warns that if some one has already > kept >> >> > rattis >> >> > > > at home or any other karak object of ashubh Mars, then these >> >> objects >> >> > > > should be kept along with the objects signifying Jupiter. It >> > will >> >> be >> >> > > > absurd to arrange for the rattis and then keep them along > with >> >> gold. >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > The correct upaya for Jupiter in the 7th house will be taking >> > the >> >> > help >> >> > > > of Moon by establishing silver/rice etc at home. >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > Regards, >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > Varun Trivedi >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > , " gill_hs2005 " >> >> > > > <gill_hs2005@> wrote: >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > Shri Varun ji, >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > If the ratti is so inauspicious then why is it used as an >> > upaya >> >> > for >> >> > > > Jupiter in the 7th house? It is recommended that rattis be > kept >> >> with >> >> > > > gold in a yellow cloth.Respectfully, >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > HS Gill >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > , " varun_trvd " >> >> > varun_trvd@ >> >> > > > wrote: >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Respected Juneja ji, >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > It is a bright shining red colour seed with a black spot > on >> > it >> >> > and >> >> > > > is known by various names like Ratti / gunchi / gunja / > chirmi >> >> etc. >> >> > It >> >> > > > is a seed of a creeper very commonly found all over India. > The >> >> seeds >> >> > are >> >> > > > dangerously poisonous. These seeds had been traditionally > used >> > for >> >> > > > weighing gold and precious gems. >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > I do not know about other parts of the country but in >> > western >> >> UP >> >> > > > these seeds are considered as very inauspicious so much so > that >> >> > these >> >> > > > seeds are not allowed into the village let alone the house. >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > It is generally believed that the presence of these seeds > in >> > a >> >> > > > family or a village will cause quarrels amongst brothers. > These >> >> > seeds >> >> > > > are quite often used in a ‘totka’. If some one > is >> >> > > > interested in creating rift between brothers then a few of > these >> >> > seeds >> >> > > > are thrown into the house. >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > As kids we were fascinated by the shining bright red > colour >> > of >> >> > these >> >> > > > seeds and would stealthily bring them home. When found, would >> > get >> >> a >> >> > > > thrashing of our lives. >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > The awe and the evil power of these seeds got so > ingrained >> > in >> >> > our >> >> > > > psyche that even today I shudder at the very mention of these >> >> seeds. >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Regards, >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Varun Trivedi >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > , > " junejanarendra " >> >> > > > <junejanarendra@> wrote: >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > Sirs, >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > Could some one please tell me something about Ratti > seeds? >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > Respectfully >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > Narendra Juneja >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> -- >> Sent from my mobile device >> > > > > -- Sent from my mobile device Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Kulbir jee, Aap kee baat ka kya jawab doon, samajh nahi pa raha. jo meine kaha aur jo aap samjh rahe hain dono mein zameen aasman ka anter hai. blamed us the group withnegative attitude whose only purpose was to find faults in the book. abb yahan dekhiye ki RATTAK ka matlab samjhane mein galti hai na ki LAL KITAB se galti dhonndne ki. maine saare group ko nahi balki kuchh ek logo ke baare kaha tha ki woh kitab ko padte hee iss tarah hain ki galti dhonndi jaye. aur mein apni iss baat par abb bhee kayam hoon. kripa kar ke kitab ko zaroor pade aur uss par amal bhee karein lekin galti na dhoonde. MAHAJAN --- On Mon, 3/9/09, kulbir bance <kulbirbance wrote: kulbir bance <kulbirbanceLK discussion group Re: Ratti / MAFINAMA Date: Monday, March 9, 2009, 4:35 PMMahajan ji, u see it happens but unlike u none of group members gave ur like percentage quotient like u said that u were 101% in disagreement and it was u who outrightedly blamed us the group with negative attitude whose only purpose was to find faults in the book but u can see we made every effort to understand ur point of view. There was yet another haughty line that unlike us u were concerned to help people through lalkitab. Now in retrospect you can see how many people u actually helped by keeping scales alongwith gold in yellow cloth. Plz remember always hadh se zyada wafadari aur gaddari mein sirf mamuli sa farq hota hai. Regards. Kulbir. On 3/9/09, heartzthief54 <heartzthief54 wrote: > Kulbir Jee & Varun Jee, > > Mein shuru se hee apni baat mein ulajh gaya thaa jab meine RATTI AUR > RATTAK ko alag alag samjha thaa, aur apne aap ko dilasa dene ke liye hee > kuchh na kuchh udharan(galat) de raha thaa, jabki RATTI AUR RATTAK ek > hee hai, mein apni galti manta hoo. > > iska weightin farmula mein likh rahan hoon umeed hai ki yeh sahi > hoga..... > > 8 KHASKHAS BRABAR hotey hain 1 CHAWAL (8khaskhas=1 chawal) > > 8 CHAWAL BRABAR hotey hain 1 RATTI (8chawal=1 > ratti) > > 8 RATTI BRABAR hotey hain 1 MASHA (8 ratti= 1 > masha) > > 12 MASHA BRABAR hotey hain 1 tola (12 > masha=1 tola) > > kripya note karein ki ek tola app. 12 gms. ( purana tola) aajkal ek tola > hota hai 10 grams ka. > > apni galti ki ek baar aap sab se kshama mangta hoon.yahan mein galat > hoon usko manne mein mujhko koi sharam nahi. > > MAHAJAN. > > > > > > > > , kulbir bance > <kulbirbance wrote: >> >> Mahajan ji, >> >> lal rang munh sayah. Agar is tarazu ki dandi par lal rang >> hota hai to munh yani head ya face baki portion ko mana jaye. Agar >> dandi ko sira mane to kitab ke hisab se sayah rang ki hona chahiye aur >> baki sab lal rang. >> >> Regards. >> >> Kulbir. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 3/7/09, heartzthief54 heartzthief54 wrote: >> > Varun Jee, >> > >> > Rattak(tarazu) kee jo bodi hoti hai yahan se usko pakad (tolne ke > liye) >> > wahan par aam taur lal rang kiya hota hai yeh aap chahe to tarazu > mein >> > dekh sakte hai.khana no 7 TULA RASHI . tula kya hai yeh aap bhee > jante >> > hain. >> > >> > MAHAJAN. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > , "varun_trvd" >> > varun_trvd@ wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> Respected Mahajan ji, >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Rattak has been defined as ' lal rang munh syaah; jo sona tolne ke >> > kaam >> >> aati hai'. >> >> >> >> Do you want us to believe that the small taraju has a red colour > with >> >> its mouth as black? >> >> >> >> If not, then it can be nothing else but the ratti seed. >> >> >> >> Thankfully the rattak had been defined within brackets. >> >> >> >> With respect and regards, >> >> >> >> Varun Trivedi >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> , "heartzthief54" >> >> heartzthief54@ wrote: >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Varun Jee & Other Members, >> >> > >> >> > Ratti par chali behas (meri gairhaziri mein, kyonki mein delhi > gaya >> >> thaa >> >> > apne business tour par aur Umesh Jee se bhee mila thaa)ko dekh > kar >> >> bahut >> >> > hee nirasha huee , Brahspati khana no 7 rattak ko yard rang kapde >> > mein >> >> > rakhne ko kaha gaya hai na ki RATTI ko. >> >> > >> >> > Mujhe bhee kai baar aakar kai log LAL KITAB walo ka yeh bataya > hua >> >> upay >> >> > dikhate hain ki unho ne kaha(jiske pass woh gaye they Brahspati >> > khana >> >> no >> >> > 7 wale jatak) ki aap ghar mein ratti ko zard ya piley/yellow > kapde >> >> mein >> >> > bandh kar rakhe or woh ratti kya hai yeh jankari lene mere paas > aate >> >> > hain. >> >> > >> >> > Aur yahan bhee yehi sab kuchh ho raha hai , sab log ratti ke > pichhey >> >> > pade hain , rattak ko koi nahi pakad paya.Yehi baat Umesh jee se >> > bhee >> >> > huee thee woh saff maan gaye ki unki punjabi bhasha par pakad > nahi, >> >> > meine unko bataya ki ratti nahi rattak(woh shayad iss behas ko >> >> padh/dekh >> >> > rahe theey mein nahi ) chahiye woh bhee tabhi karein agar ghar > mein >> >> hai >> >> > to special lene mat jaye,yehi Varun jee ne bhee likha hai, lekin > woh >> >> > bhee ratti keh rahe hain , jabki unhone Brahspati khana no 7 ke >> > baare >> >> > mein saaf saaf likha hai ki >> >> > >> >> > mandi halat ki nishani ghar mein rattak [ lal rang aur munh syah, >> > sona >> >> > tolne ke kaam ati hai] ya mangal bud ki ashiya hongi. Jinko ko >> >> > brahaspati ki ashiya [ zard kapara, sona vagairah] ke saath mila > kar >> >> > rakhana madadgar hoga.Mandi halat mein Chandra ka upaya madadgar >> >> > hoga" [ 1952 urdu ed ; page 281] >> >> > >> >> > Abb dhayan se pade aur bataye ki RATTAK kya hai ? Sab log hairan > na >> > ho >> >> > Rattak hee Ratti nahi hota. >> >> > >> >> > Adhkachra gyan kitna khatarnak ho sakta hai yeh sab aap jaan gaye >> >> honge >> >> > ,kyonki ratti aur RATTAk mein zammen aasmaan ka farak hai. >> >> > >> >> > ASAL MEIN RATTAK WOH HOTA HAI JISMEIN RATTI KO TOLA JAYE YANI KI >> > CHHTA >> >> > SA TARAZU. >> >> > >> >> > Purane samay mein yeh aamtuar par gharo mein mill jaya karta thaa > , >> >> > bilkul chhta sa tarazu ,kyonki tab log kapde ghar mein hee >> >> rang(colour) >> >> > karte they, chhti chhoti vastu(masala aadi) ghar mein hee tol > liya >> >> karte >> >> > theay.kripya yahan par tarazu ko yellow kapde mein rakhwayein na > ki >> >> > ratti ko.abb LK ki statement dhayan se pade SONA TOLNE KE KAAM > AATI >> >> HAI. >> >> > Sona kis se tola jayega ????????? >> >> > >> >> > PANDIT DEE BODI MEEN MANGDI. >> >> > >> >> > yahan par chander kee sahayta lein yani ki aise jatak jinka >> > brahspati >> >> > khana no 7 mein ho woh meen(barsat) mein nahaye. >> >> > >> >> > Yeh dono baatein RATTAK AUR BODI issliye likh rahan hoon ki aapko >> > bodi >> >> > aur tarazu ka connection samjh aa jaye. >> >> > >> >> > Har baar mujhko yeh likhne mein sharam mahsoos hone lagi hai ki > koi >> >> > galti huee ho to kshama chahta hoo.lekin fir bhee aap sab se > kshama >> >> > chahta hoon ki mein aapke brabar gyani nahi hoon lekin lal kitab > ke >> >> > baare mein thoda sa gyan rakhta hoon. >> >> > >> >> > MAHAJAN >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Dear Varun ji, >> >> > > >> >> > > Thank you for explaning the Jupiter 7th upaya. I never knew > that >> >> > keeping rattis along with gold is a precaution. I thought that it > is >> >> an >> >> > upaya. >> >> > > >> >> > > Respectfully, >> >> > > >> >> > > HS Gill >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > , "varun_trvd" >> > varun_trvd@ >> >> > wrote: >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > Respected Gill Saheb, >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > It is not true. >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > Ratti is not being used as a material for upaya. On the > contrary >> >> it >> >> > is a >> >> > > > precaution against rattis kept at home. Read the actual > extract >> >> from >> >> > the >> >> > > > book : >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > “ mandi halat ki nishani ghar mein rattak [ lal rang > aur >> >> munh >> >> > > > syah, sona tolne ke kaam ati hai] ya mangal bud ki ashiya > hongi. >> >> > Jinko >> >> > > > ko brahaspati ki ashiya [ zard kapara, sona vagairah] ke > saath >> >> mila >> >> > kar >> >> > > > rakhana madadgar hoga. >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > Mandi halat mein Chandra ka upaya madadgar hoga�� [ > 1952 >> >> urdu >> >> > ed ; >> >> > > > page 281] >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > 'The indications of malefic effects will be the rattis or the >> >> other >> >> > > > karak objects of ashubh mars kept at home. Keeping such > objects >> >> > along >> >> > > > with the karak objects of Jupiter will be helpful. >> >> > > > >> >> > > > For malefic effects of Jupiter in the 7th the upaya of moon > will >> >> be >> >> > > > helpful.' >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > It is unfortunate that some astrologers advise to keep rattis >> > with >> >> > gold >> >> > > > wrapped in a yellow cloth for Jupiter in the 7th. Where as > the >> >> book >> >> > is >> >> > > > very clear about it. It warns that if some one has already > kept >> >> > rattis >> >> > > > at home or any other karak object of ashubh Mars, then these >> >> objects >> >> > > > should be kept along with the objects signifying Jupiter. It >> > will >> >> be >> >> > > > absurd to arrange for the rattis and then keep them along > with >> >> gold. >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > The correct upaya for Jupiter in the 7th house will be taking >> > the >> >> > help >> >> > > > of Moon by establishing silver/rice etc at home. >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > Regards, >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > Varun Trivedi >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > , "gill_hs2005" >> >> > > > <gill_hs2005@> wrote: >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > Shri Varun ji, >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > If the ratti is so inauspicious then why is it used as an >> > upaya >> >> > for >> >> > > > Jupiter in the 7th house? It is recommended that rattis be > kept >> >> with >> >> > > > gold in a yellow cloth.Respectfully, >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > HS Gill >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > --- In , "varun_trvd" >> >> > varun_trvd@ >> >> > > > wrote: >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Respected Juneja ji, >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > It is a bright shining red colour seed with a black spot > on >> > it >> >> > and >> >> > > > is known by various names like Ratti / gunchi / gunja / > chirmi >> >> etc. >> >> > It >> >> > > > is a seed of a creeper very commonly found all over India. > The >> >> seeds >> >> > are >> >> > > > dangerously poisonous. These seeds had been traditionally > used >> > for >> >> > > > weighing gold and precious gems. >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > I do not know about other parts of the country but in >> > western >> >> UP >> >> > > > these seeds are considered as very inauspicious so much so > that >> >> > these >> >> > > > seeds are not allowed into the village let alone the house. >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > It is generally believed that the presence of these seeds > in >> > a >> >> > > > family or a village will cause quarrels amongst brothers. > These >> >> > seeds >> >> > > > are quite often used in a ‘totka’. If some one > is >> >> > > > interested in creating rift between brothers then a few of > these >> >> > seeds >> >> > > > are thrown into the house. >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > As kids we were fascinated by the shining bright red > colour >> > of >> >> > these >> >> > > > seeds and would stealthily bring them home. When found, would >> > get >> >> a >> >> > > > thrashing of our lives. >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > The awe and the evil power of these seeds got so > ingrained >> > in >> >> > our >> >> > > > psyche that even today I shudder at the very mention of these >> >> seeds. >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Regards, >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Varun Trivedi >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > --- In , > "junejanarendra" >> >> > > > <junejanarendra@> wrote: >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > Sirs, >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > Could some one please tell me something about Ratti > seeds? >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > Respectfully >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > Narendra Juneja >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> -- >> Sent from my mobile device >> > > > > -- Sent from my mobile device --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Respected mahajan ji, jisse aap galti dhoondhna kahte hain.Main ose gahraie me jakar samajhna kahta hoon. Kai contridictory lines hain jaise last time mangal+shani ke bare likha tha. Aise kain swaal hain jinka koi jawab hi nahin mila. Kitab ko galat sabit karke hum paap ka bhagidar nahin banana chate han samajhna zarur chahte hain. It's very much like what prof mohan singh said Rab ik gunjaldar bujharat, rab ik gorakhdhanda: par LAILAG MOMMIN NAALON KHOJI KAAFIR CHANGA. no hard feelings. Aap senior hain aapse bahut kuch sikhna hai. Regards. Kulbir On 3/11/09, Hemant Mohan <heartzthief54 wrote: > Kulbir jee, > > Aap kee baat ka kya jawab doon, samajh nahi pa raha. jo meine kaha aur jo > aap samjh rahe hain dono mein zameen aasman ka anter hai. > > �blamed us the group with > negative attitude whose only purpose was to find faults in the book. > > abb yahan dekhiye ki RATTAK ka matlab samjhane mein galti hai na ki LAL > KITAB se galti dhonndne ki. maine saare group ko nahi balki kuchh ek logo ke > baare kaha tha ki woh kitab ko padte hee iss tarah hain ki galti dhonndi > jaye. aur mein apni iss baat par abb bhee kayam hoon. kripa kar ke kitab ko > zaroor pade aur uss par amal bhee karein lekin galti na dhoonde. > > MAHAJAN > > --- On Mon, 3/9/09, kulbir bance <kulbirbance wrote: > > kulbir bance <kulbirbance > LK discussion group Re: Ratti / MAFINAMA > > Monday, March 9, 2009, 4:35 PM > > Mahajan ji, > > u see it happens but unlike u none of group members gave > ur like percentage quotient like u said that u were 101% in > disagreement and it was u who outrightedly blamed us the group with > negative attitude whose only purpose was to find faults in the book > but u can see we made every effort to understand ur point of view. > There was yet another haughty line that unlike us u were concerned to > help people through lalkitab. Now in retrospect you can see how many people > u > actually helped by keeping scales alongwith gold in yellow cloth. > > Plz remember always hadh se zyada wafadari aur gaddari mein sirf mamuli sa > farq > hota hai. > > Regards. > > Kulbir. > > > > On 3/9/09, heartzthief54 <heartzthief54 wrote: >> Kulbir Jee & Varun Jee, >> >> Mein shuru se hee apni baat mein ulajh gaya thaa jab meine RATTI AUR >> RATTAK ko alag alag samjha thaa, aur apne aap ko dilasa dene ke liye hee >> kuchh na kuchh udharan(galat) de raha thaa, jabki RATTI AUR RATTAK ek >> hee hai, mein apni galti manta hoo. >> >> iska weightin farmula mein likh rahan hoon umeed hai ki yeh sahi >> hoga..... >> >> 8 KHASKHAS BRABAR hotey hain 1 CHAWAL (8khaskhas=1 chawal) >> >> 8 CHAWAL BRABAR hotey hain 1 RATTI (8chawal=1 >> ratti) >> >> 8 RATTI BRABAR hotey hain 1 MASHA (8 ratti= 1 >> masha) >> >> 12 MASHA BRABAR hotey hain 1 tola (12 >> masha=1 tola) >> >> kripya note karein ki ek tola app. 12 gms. ( purana tola) aajkal ek tola >> hota hai 10 grams ka. >> >> apni galti ki ek baar aap sab se kshama mangta hoon.yahan mein galat >> hoon usko manne mein mujhko koi sharam nahi. >> >> MAHAJAN. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> , kulbir bance >> <kulbirbance wrote: >>> >>> Mahajan ji, >>> >>> lal rang munh sayah. Agar is tarazu ki dandi par lal rang >>> hota hai to munh yani head ya face baki portion ko mana jaye. Agar >>> dandi ko sira mane to kitab ke hisab se sayah rang ki hona chahiye aur >>> baki sab lal rang. >>> >>> Regards. >>> >>> Kulbir. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 3/7/09, heartzthief54 heartzthief54 wrote: >>> > Varun Jee, >>> > >>> > Rattak(tarazu) kee jo bodi hoti hai yahan se usko pakad (tolne ke >> liye) >>> > wahan par aam taur lal rang kiya hota hai yeh aap chahe to tarazu >> mein >>> > dekh sakte hai.khana no 7 TULA RASHI . tula kya hai yeh aap bhee >> jante >>> > hain. >>> > >>> > MAHAJAN. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > , > " varun_trvd " >>> > varun_trvd@ wrote: >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Respected Mahajan ji, >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Rattak has been defined as ' lal rang munh syaah; jo sona > tolne ke >>> > kaam >>> >> aati hai'. >>> >> >>> >> Do you want us to believe that the small taraju has a red > colour >> with >>> >> its mouth as black? >>> >> >>> >> If not, then it can be nothing else but the ratti seed. >>> >> >>> >> Thankfully the rattak had been defined within brackets. >>> >> >>> >> With respect and regards, >>> >> >>> >> Varun Trivedi >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> , > " heartzthief54 " >>> >> heartzthief54@ wrote: >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > Varun Jee & Other Members, >>> >> > >>> >> > Ratti par chali behas (meri gairhaziri mein, kyonki mein > delhi >> gaya >>> >> thaa >>> >> > apne business tour par aur Umesh Jee se bhee mila > thaa)ko dekh >> kar >>> >> bahut >>> >> > hee nirasha huee , Brahspati khana no 7 rattak ko yard > rang kapde >>> > mein >>> >> > rakhne ko kaha gaya hai na ki RATTI ko. >>> >> > >>> >> > Mujhe bhee kai baar aakar kai log LAL KITAB walo ka yeh > bataya >> hua >>> >> upay >>> >> > dikhate hain ki unho ne kaha(jiske pass woh gaye they > Brahspati >>> > khana >>> >> no >>> >> > 7 wale jatak) ki aap ghar mein ratti ko zard ya > piley/yellow >> kapde >>> >> mein >>> >> > bandh kar rakhe or woh ratti kya hai yeh jankari lene > mere paas >> aate >>> >> > hain. >>> >> > >>> >> > Aur yahan bhee yehi sab kuchh ho raha hai , sab log > ratti ke >> pichhey >>> >> > pade hain , rattak ko koi nahi pakad paya.Yehi baat > Umesh jee se >>> > bhee >>> >> > huee thee woh saff maan gaye ki unki punjabi bhasha par > pakad >> nahi, >>> >> > meine unko bataya ki ratti nahi rattak(woh shayad iss > behas ko >>> >> padh/dekh >>> >> > rahe theey mein nahi ) chahiye woh bhee tabhi karein > agar ghar >> mein >>> >> hai >>> >> > to special lene mat jaye,yehi Varun jee ne bhee likha > hai, lekin >> woh >>> >> > bhee ratti keh rahe hain , jabki unhone Brahspati khana > no 7 ke >>> > baare >>> >> > mein saaf saaf likha hai ki >>> >> > >>> >> > mandi halat ki nishani ghar mein rattak [ lal rang aur > munh syah, >>> > sona >>> >> > tolne ke kaam ati hai] ya mangal bud ki ashiya hongi. > Jinko ko >>> >> > brahaspati ki ashiya [ zard kapara, sona vagairah] ke > saath mila >> kar >>> >> > rakhana madadgar hoga.Mandi halat mein Chandra ka upaya > madadgar >>> >> > hoga " [ 1952 urdu ed ; page 281] >>> >> > >>> >> > Abb dhayan se pade aur bataye ki RATTAK kya hai ? Sab > log hairan >> na >>> > ho >>> >> > Rattak hee Ratti nahi hota. >>> >> > >>> >> > Adhkachra gyan kitna khatarnak ho sakta hai yeh sab aap > jaan gaye >>> >> honge >>> >> > ,kyonki ratti aur RATTAk mein zammen aasmaan ka farak > hai. >>> >> > >>> >> > ASAL MEIN RATTAK WOH HOTA HAI JISMEIN RATTI KO TOLA JAYE > YANI KI >>> > CHHTA >>> >> > SA TARAZU. >>> >> > >>> >> > Purane samay mein yeh aamtuar par gharo mein mill jaya > karta thaa >> , >>> >> > bilkul chhta sa tarazu ,kyonki tab log kapde ghar mein > hee >>> >> rang(colour) >>> >> > karte they, chhti chhoti vastu(masala aadi) ghar mein > hee tol >> liya >>> >> karte >>> >> > theay.kripya yahan par tarazu ko yellow kapde mein > rakhwayein na >> ki >>> >> > ratti ko.abb LK ki statement dhayan se pade SONA TOLNE > KE KAAM >> AATI >>> >> HAI. >>> >> > Sona kis se tola jayega ????????? >>> >> > >>> >> > PANDIT DEE BODI MEEN MANGDI. >>> >> > >>> >> > yahan par chander kee sahayta lein yani ki aise jatak > jinka >>> > brahspati >>> >> > khana no 7 mein ho woh meen(barsat) mein nahaye. >>> >> > >>> >> > Yeh dono baatein RATTAK AUR BODI issliye likh rahan hoon > ki aapko >>> > bodi >>> >> > aur tarazu ka connection samjh aa jaye. >>> >> > >>> >> > Har baar mujhko yeh likhne mein sharam mahsoos hone lagi > hai ki >> koi >>> >> > galti huee ho to kshama chahta hoo.lekin fir bhee aap > sab se >> kshama >>> >> > chahta hoon ki mein aapke brabar gyani nahi hoon lekin > lal kitab >> ke >>> >> > baare mein thoda sa gyan rakhta hoon. >>> >> > >>> >> > MAHAJAN >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > Dear Varun ji, >>> >> > > >>> >> > > Thank you for explaning the Jupiter 7th upaya. I > never knew >> that >>> >> > keeping rattis along with gold is a precaution. I > thought that it >> is >>> >> an >>> >> > upaya. >>> >> > > >>> >> > > Respectfully, >>> >> > > >>> >> > > HS Gill >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > , > " varun_trvd " >>> > varun_trvd@ >>> >> > wrote: >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > Respected Gill Saheb, >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > It is not true. >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > Ratti is not being used as a material for > upaya. On the >> contrary >>> >> it >>> >> > is a >>> >> > > > precaution against rattis kept at home. Read > the actual >> extract >>> >> from >>> >> > the >>> >> > > > book : >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > “ mandi halat ki nishani ghar mein > rattak [ lal rang >> aur >>> >> munh >>> >> > > > syah, sona tolne ke kaam ati hai] ya mangal > bud ki ashiya >> hongi. >>> >> > Jinko >>> >> > > > ko brahaspati ki ashiya [ zard kapara, sona > vagairah] ke >> saath >>> >> mila >>> >> > kar >>> >> > > > rakhana madadgar hoga. >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > Mandi halat mein Chandra ka upaya madadgar > hoga�� [ >> 1952 >>> >> urdu >>> >> > ed ; >>> >> > > > page 281] >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > 'The indications of malefic effects will > be the rattis or the >>> >> other >>> >> > > > karak objects of ashubh mars kept at home. > Keeping such >> objects >>> >> > along >>> >> > > > with the karak objects of Jupiter will be > helpful. >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > For malefic effects of Jupiter in the 7th the > upaya of moon >> will >>> >> be >>> >> > > > helpful.' >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > It is unfortunate that some astrologers advise > to keep rattis >>> > with >>> >> > gold >>> >> > > > wrapped in a yellow cloth for Jupiter in the > 7th. Where as >> the >>> >> book >>> >> > is >>> >> > > > very clear about it. It warns that if some one > has already >> kept >>> >> > rattis >>> >> > > > at home or any other karak object of ashubh > Mars, then these >>> >> objects >>> >> > > > should be kept along with the objects > signifying Jupiter. It >>> > will >>> >> be >>> >> > > > absurd to arrange for the rattis and then keep > them along >> with >>> >> gold. >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > The correct upaya for Jupiter in the 7th house > will be taking >>> > the >>> >> > help >>> >> > > > of Moon by establishing silver/rice etc at > home. >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > Regards, >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > Varun Trivedi >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > , > " gill_hs2005 " >>> >> > > > <gill_hs2005@> wrote: >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > Shri Varun ji, >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > If the ratti is so inauspicious then why > is it used as an >>> > upaya >>> >> > for >>> >> > > > Jupiter in the 7th house? It is recommended > that rattis be >> kept >>> >> with >>> >> > > > gold in a yellow cloth.Respectfully, >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > HS Gill >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > --- In > , " varun_trvd " >>> >> > varun_trvd@ >>> >> > > > wrote: >>> >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > Respected Juneja ji, >>> >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > It is a bright shining red colour > seed with a black spot >> on >>> > it >>> >> > and >>> >> > > > is known by various names like Ratti / gunchi > / gunja / >> chirmi >>> >> etc. >>> >> > It >>> >> > > > is a seed of a creeper very commonly found all > over India. >> The >>> >> seeds >>> >> > are >>> >> > > > dangerously poisonous. These seeds had been > traditionally >> used >>> > for >>> >> > > > weighing gold and precious gems. >>> >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > I do not know about other parts of > the country but in >>> > western >>> >> UP >>> >> > > > these seeds are considered as very > inauspicious so much so >> that >>> >> > these >>> >> > > > seeds are not allowed into the village let > alone the house. >>> >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > It is generally believed that the > presence of these seeds >> in >>> > a >>> >> > > > family or a village will cause quarrels > amongst brothers. >> These >>> >> > seeds >>> >> > > > are quite often used in a > ‘totka’. If some one >> is >>> >> > > > interested in creating rift between brothers > then a few of >> these >>> >> > seeds >>> >> > > > are thrown into the house. >>> >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > As kids we were fascinated by the > shining bright red >> colour >>> > of >>> >> > these >>> >> > > > seeds and would stealthily bring them home. > When found, would >>> > get >>> >> a >>> >> > > > thrashing of our lives. >>> >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > The awe and the evil power of these > seeds got so >> ingrained >>> > in >>> >> > our >>> >> > > > psyche that even today I shudder at the very > mention of these >>> >> seeds. >>> >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > Regards, >>> >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > Varun Trivedi >>> >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > --- In > , >> " junejanarendra " >>> >> > > > <junejanarendra@> wrote: >>> >> > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > > Sirs, >>> >> > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > > Could some one please tell me > something about Ratti >> seeds? >>> >> > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > > Respectfully >>> >> > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > > Narendra Juneja >>> >> > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >>> -- >>> Sent from my mobile device >>> >> >> >> >> > > -- > Sent from my mobile device > > > --- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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