Guest guest Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 Varun ji, the discussion on saturn 4 has been indeed fruitful by inputs by learned members and beautifully concluded by mahajan ji. Iqbal ji's message reminded me of question for which i haven't found answer. In pt. Krishan ashant's book the procedure of preparing bhang finds mention in the introductory part where it is mentioned that bhang comes up with real flavour only when a copper coin is used in preperation. Plz explain if anyone has understood this. Regards. Kulbir. On 2/11/09, Iqbal Singh <punjabilovebug wrote: > Dear Kulbir Paji, > > This is true today even with modern medicines. From the zehar we get the > antivenom etc- > > For Saturn in 4th however, wouldn't Bhang be considered the most effective > option for upaye? > > Best Regards, > Iqbal > USA > > > > Sent via Blackberry > > > " varun_trvd " <varun_trvd > > Wed, 11 Feb 2009 12:49:15 > > LK discussion group Re: Saturn + moon > > > Respected Vijay ji, > > You are right. > > Both intoxicants and poisons have been traditionally used in the > indigenous medicines. > > Regards, > > Varun Trivedi > , " Vijay Goel " > <goyalvj wrote: >> >> Respected Varunji, >> >> You are right juice mixed with water is the right substitute. If >> person is health wise weak, he can take homoepatic medicine with > water. >> >> For eg. In kidney stone, [astrologically saturn comes into play], > few >> drops of homoepatic medicine " berbellis " is taken in every glass > of >> water person drinks for few days, and that stone gets diluted and >> breaks and comes out of body. >> >> Similarly mainly in stones of gal bladder, sometimes doctor > advises to >> drink lot of BEAR (diluted alcohol in water), and stone is pushed > out >> through urinary track. >> >> ----------------------- >> >> Last week i was in a professional maiden tour to Indore. I really >> enjoyed it, here are few pics at the below link. >> >> http://picasaweb.google.com/goelvj/IndoreBookFair09# >> >> Thanking you, >> Vijay Goel >> Jaipur. >> >> >> >> >> , " varun_trvd " >> <varun_trvd@> wrote: >> > >> > Respected Vijay ji, >> > >> > Thanks for your input. You have very explicitly explained the >> > rationale of this combination. >> > >> > Since a person can not live on juices alone for 43 days, and it >> > might be very expensive also,therefore adding some juice to the >> > water and then drinking it could be a viable alternative. >> > >> > Regards, >> > >> > Varun Trivedi >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > , " Vijay Goel " >> > <goyalvj@> wrote: >> > > >> > > Respected Varun ji, Mahajanji, Kulbir Bhai & Members, >> > > >> > > As per classical astrology also Saturn + moon is Vish Yoga > (poison >> > > combination). >> > > >> > > Now drinking pure water will increase effect of moon. >> > > Drinking pure alcohol will increase the effects of saturn. >> > > >> > > Now both is undesirable as per the views presented by your >> > goodselves. >> > > >> > > Drinking pure alcohol in form of 'medicine' will still produce > the >> > > effect of saturn, if saturn is weak but benefic to health than > this >> > > remedy could work, else not. >> > > >> > > The idea is to reduce this poisonous combination which is > making >> > the >> > > mind (moon) depressed (saturn), people drink alcohol (saturn) > which >> > > mixed in blood (moon liquid) 'seems' to make the person > elevated >> > > (venus) from depress state (saturn). >> > > >> > > So as per my view, Venusian effect is helping is out from this >> > poison, >> > > but this drinking alcohol is not a remedy, it is a mirage. >> > > >> > > Actually by drinking fruits juices [especially vitamin C, like >> > orange >> > > juice (venus) or juices which increases oxygen ions (sun) in > the >> > body] >> > > will be the effective remedy, instead of drinking pure water > as it >> > > will increase depression, for 40-43 days. >> > > >> > > Please see if i am correct as per LK or not. >> > > >> > > Thanking you, >> > > Best Wishes, >> > > Vijay Goel >> > > Jaipur. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > , " varun_trvd " >> > > <varun_trvd@> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > Dear Kulbir bhai, >> > > > >> > > > With Saturn + Moon, it is advised that the native should > drink >> > water >> > > > after adding some thing to it, of his own choice and taste, > for >> > 43 days >> > > > at least if he is suffering from weak vision. In other words > he >> > should >> > > > not drink pure water but must adulterate it with some thing > else. >> > > > >> > > > The cue to understand the logic of this upaya could possibly > be >> > in the >> > > > line : >> > > > >> > > > " ek bhala to doosara manda, maut bahane gadhta ho " >> > > > >> > > > [ 1952 urdu ed ; page 839 ] >> > > > >> > > > Now drinking water alone would amount to adding strength to > moon >> > and >> > > > this will make the saturn all the more manda. >> > > > >> > > > To my mind that appears to be the reason. Lets hear if some > one >> > has a >> > > > better explanation. >> > > > >> > > > Regards, >> > > > >> > > > Varun Trivedi >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > , kulbir bance >> > > > <kulbirbance@> wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > Varun ji, >> > > > > >> > > > > how does drinking diluted water helps in saturn+moon >> > > > > combination. >> > > > > >> > > > > Regards. >> > > > > >> > > > > Kulbir >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > On 2/9/09, varun_trvd varun_trvd@ wrote: >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Kulbir bhai, >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > You are right that abstaining is desirable. Addiction to >> > alcohol is >> > > > > > likely to turn Saturn malefic. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > But intake of the karak objects of Saturn, liquor for >> > example, in >> > > > > > moderation and as a medicine by way of an upaya would > help. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > We interpret these two apparently contradictory > statements >> > in terms >> > > > of >> > > > > > Saturn turned malefic and Saturn got weakened. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > The Lal Kitab takes Saturn as the karak of jism ki sehat > and >> > says : >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Sehat jism ho jab kabhi manda , saanp shafa khud deta > ho†[ >> > > > 1952 >> > > > > > urdu ed ; page 605 ] >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Therefore when the Saturn gets weak indicated through the >> > health >> > > > loss, >> > > > > > then it can be energized through the karaks of the Saturn >> > itself >> > > > when >> > > > > > used as upaya and in moderation. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > But addiction for the same can turn Saturn into a > malefic; >> > because >> > > > in >> > > > > > the case of addiction liquor is not taken as an upaya. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Regards, >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Varun Trivedi >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > , kulbir bance >> > > > > > kulbirbance@ wrote: >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> Varun ji, >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> saturn 4, 1952, pt. 2 says that drinking will effect > health >> > > > > >> adversaly. Pt 9 prescribes it as a remedy/medicine for >> > health >> > > > > >> problems. Is the condition listed in pt.2 applicable > only >> > when mars >> > > > in >> > > > > >> no.5 or it implies that the native should use alchohol > only >> > when >> > > > > >> health problem crops up. If there is no ill health it is >> > good to >> > > > > >> abstain. >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> Kulbir >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> -- >> > > > > >> Sent from my mobile device >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > -- >> > > > > Sent from my mobile device >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > > > > -- Sent from my mobile device Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 Dear Kulbir bhai, Yes you are right. I also remember that Pt. Krishna Ashant ji has talked about copper coin being used while preparing bhaang. It is a normal practice in the area I live [ Braj pradesh ] where the real 'bhaangdis' rub the copper coin on the 'sil'[stone] which they use for making a bhaang paste. It is said to increase the intoxication ability of 'bhaang'. But I do not think that 'bhaang'is an ashiya of Saturn. It could be an ashiya of mercury because it is the green leaves of the 'bhaang' plant Therefore, I do not think that 'bhaang' can be accepted as an ashiya of saturn of the 4th house. Even otherwise we should take the liquid ashiya of saturn for the 4th house, which could be liquor. Have a nice day, Varun Trivedi , kulbir bance <kulbirbance wrote: > > Varun ji, > > the discussion on saturn 4 has been indeed fruitful by > inputs by learned members and beautifully concluded by mahajan ji. > Iqbal ji's message reminded me of question for which i haven't found > answer. In pt. Krishan ashant's book the procedure of preparing bhang > finds mention in the introductory part where it is mentioned that > bhang comes up with real flavour only when a copper coin is used in > preperation. Plz explain if anyone has understood this. > > Regards. > > Kulbir. > > > > > On 2/11/09, Iqbal Singh <punjabilovebug wrote: > > Dear Kulbir Paji, > > > > This is true today even with modern medicines. From the zehar we get the > > antivenom etc- > > > > For Saturn in 4th however, wouldn't Bhang be considered the most effective > > option for upaye? > > > > Best Regards, > > Iqbal > > USA > > > > > > > > Sent via Blackberry > > > > > > " varun_trvd " <varun_trvd > > > > Wed, 11 Feb 2009 12:49:15 > > > > LK discussion group Re: Saturn + moon > > > > > > Respected Vijay ji, > > > > You are right. > > > > Both intoxicants and poisons have been traditionally used in the > > indigenous medicines. > > > > Regards, > > > > Varun Trivedi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Vijay Goel " > > <goyalvj@> wrote: > >> > >> Respected Varunji, > >> > >> You are right juice mixed with water is the right substitute. If > >> person is health wise weak, he can take homoepatic medicine with > > water. > >> > >> For eg. In kidney stone, [astrologically saturn comes into play], > > few > >> drops of homoepatic medicine " berbellis " is taken in every glass > > of > >> water person drinks for few days, and that stone gets diluted and > >> breaks and comes out of body. > >> > >> Similarly mainly in stones of gal bladder, sometimes doctor > > advises to > >> drink lot of BEAR (diluted alcohol in water), and stone is pushed > > out > >> through urinary track. > >> > >> ----------------------- > >> > >> Last week i was in a professional maiden tour to Indore. I really > >> enjoyed it, here are few pics at the below link. > >> > >> http://picasaweb.google.com/goelvj/IndoreBookFair09# > >> > >> Thanking you, > >> Vijay Goel > >> Jaipur. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> , " varun_trvd " > >> <varun_trvd@> wrote: > >> > > >> > Respected Vijay ji, > >> > > >> > Thanks for your input. You have very explicitly explained the > >> > rationale of this combination. > >> > > >> > Since a person can not live on juices alone for 43 days, and it > >> > might be very expensive also,therefore adding some juice to the > >> > water and then drinking it could be a viable alternative. > >> > > >> > Regards, > >> > > >> > Varun Trivedi > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > , " Vijay Goel " > >> > <goyalvj@> wrote: > >> > > > >> > > Respected Varun ji, Mahajanji, Kulbir Bhai & Members, > >> > > > >> > > As per classical astrology also Saturn + moon is Vish Yoga > > (poison > >> > > combination). > >> > > > >> > > Now drinking pure water will increase effect of moon. > >> > > Drinking pure alcohol will increase the effects of saturn. > >> > > > >> > > Now both is undesirable as per the views presented by your > >> > goodselves. > >> > > > >> > > Drinking pure alcohol in form of 'medicine' will still produce > > the > >> > > effect of saturn, if saturn is weak but benefic to health than > > this > >> > > remedy could work, else not. > >> > > > >> > > The idea is to reduce this poisonous combination which is > > making > >> > the > >> > > mind (moon) depressed (saturn), people drink alcohol (saturn) > > which > >> > > mixed in blood (moon liquid) 'seems' to make the person > > elevated > >> > > (venus) from depress state (saturn). > >> > > > >> > > So as per my view, Venusian effect is helping is out from this > >> > poison, > >> > > but this drinking alcohol is not a remedy, it is a mirage. > >> > > > >> > > Actually by drinking fruits juices [especially vitamin C, like > >> > orange > >> > > juice (venus) or juices which increases oxygen ions (sun) in > > the > >> > body] > >> > > will be the effective remedy, instead of drinking pure water > > as it > >> > > will increase depression, for 40-43 days. > >> > > > >> > > Please see if i am correct as per LK or not. > >> > > > >> > > Thanking you, > >> > > Best Wishes, > >> > > Vijay Goel > >> > > Jaipur. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > , " varun_trvd " > >> > > <varun_trvd@> wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > Dear Kulbir bhai, > >> > > > > >> > > > With Saturn + Moon, it is advised that the native should > > drink > >> > water > >> > > > after adding some thing to it, of his own choice and taste, > > for > >> > 43 days > >> > > > at least if he is suffering from weak vision. In other words > > he > >> > should > >> > > > not drink pure water but must adulterate it with some thing > > else. > >> > > > > >> > > > The cue to understand the logic of this upaya could possibly > > be > >> > in the > >> > > > line : > >> > > > > >> > > > " ek bhala to doosara manda, maut bahane gadhta ho " > >> > > > > >> > > > [ 1952 urdu ed ; page 839 ] > >> > > > > >> > > > Now drinking water alone would amount to adding strength to > > moon > >> > and > >> > > > this will make the saturn all the more manda. > >> > > > > >> > > > To my mind that appears to be the reason. Lets hear if some > > one > >> > has a > >> > > > better explanation. > >> > > > > >> > > > Regards, > >> > > > > >> > > > Varun Trivedi > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > , kulbir bance > >> > > > <kulbirbance@> wrote: > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Varun ji, > >> > > > > > >> > > > > how does drinking diluted water helps in saturn+moon > >> > > > > combination. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Regards. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Kulbir > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > On 2/9/09, varun_trvd varun_trvd@ wrote: > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Kulbir bhai, > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > You are right that abstaining is desirable. Addiction to > >> > alcohol is > >> > > > > > likely to turn Saturn malefic. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > But intake of the karak objects of Saturn, liquor for > >> > example, in > >> > > > > > moderation and as a medicine by way of an upaya would > > help. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > We interpret these two apparently contradictory > > statements > >> > in terms > >> > > > of > >> > > > > > Saturn turned malefic and Saturn got weakened. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > The Lal Kitab takes Saturn as the karak of jism ki sehat > > and > >> > says : > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Sehat jism ho jab kabhi manda , saanp shafa khud deta > > ho†[ > >> > > > 1952 > >> > > > > > urdu ed ; page 605 ] > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Therefore when the Saturn gets weak indicated through the > >> > health > >> > > > loss, > >> > > > > > then it can be energized through the karaks of the Saturn > >> > itself > >> > > > when > >> > > > > > used as upaya and in moderation. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > But addiction for the same can turn Saturn into a > > malefic; > >> > because > >> > > > in > >> > > > > > the case of addiction liquor is not taken as an upaya. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Regards, > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Varun Trivedi > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > , kulbir bance > >> > > > > > kulbirbance@ wrote: > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> Varun ji, > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> saturn 4, 1952, pt. 2 says that drinking will effect > > health > >> > > > > >> adversaly. Pt 9 prescribes it as a remedy/medicine for > >> > health > >> > > > > >> problems. Is the condition listed in pt.2 applicable > > only > >> > when mars > >> > > > in > >> > > > > >> no.5 or it implies that the native should use alchohol > > only > >> > when > >> > > > > >> health problem crops up. If there is no ill health it is > >> > good to > >> > > > > >> abstain. > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> Kulbir > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> -- > >> > > > > >> Sent from my mobile device > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > -- > >> > > > > Sent from my mobile device > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > -- > Sent from my mobile device > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 Varun ji, the part regarding saturn no.4 is settled. this querry is just related to copper component used in bhaang. unfortunately i don't have the book right with me now but i remember that ashant ji mentioned this in explainaning masnoi parts. here he referred to sun and mercury thus mars. in punjab where bhaang is consumed by mixing it in milk, incidentally the wooden stick used for grinding is made of neem wood tree and at most places where the stone pots are fixed for the purpose, they are also under a neem tree. the proper use of copper coin, i have learned from your mail only. i was confused regarding mars part as tobbacco has also been referred to as item under purview of mars. the intoxinating part and mars may have some relation which i have failed to understand. regards kulbir On 2/12/09, varun_trvd <varun_trvd wrote: Dear Kulbir bhai,Yes you are right. I also remember that Pt. Krishna Ashant ji has talked about copper coin being used while preparing bhaang. It is a normal practice in the area I live [ Braj pradesh ] where the real 'bhaangdis' rub the copper coin on the 'sil'[stone] which they use for making a bhaang paste. It is said to increase the intoxication ability of 'bhaang'.But I do not think that 'bhaang'is an ashiya of Saturn. It could be an ashiya of mercury because it is the green leaves of the 'bhaang' plantTherefore, I do not think that 'bhaang' can be accepted as an ashiya of saturn of the 4th house. Even otherwise we should take the liquid ashiya of saturn for the 4th house, which could be liquor.Have a nice day,Varun Trivedi , kulbir bance <kulbirbance wrote:>> Varun ji,> > the discussion on saturn 4 has been indeed fruitful by> inputs by learned members and beautifully concluded by mahajan ji. > Iqbal ji's message reminded me of question for which i haven't found> answer. In pt. Krishan ashant's book the procedure of preparing bhang> finds mention in the introductory part where it is mentioned that > bhang comes up with real flavour only when a copper coin is used in> preperation. Plz explain if anyone has understood this.> > Regards.> > Kulbir.> > > > > > > > > > > > On 2/11/09, Iqbal Singh <punjabilovebug wrote:> > Dear Kulbir Paji,> >> > This is true today even with modern medicines. From the zehar we get the> > antivenom etc-> >> > For Saturn in 4th however, wouldn't Bhang be considered the most effective> > option for upaye?> >> > Best Regards,> > Iqbal > > USA> >> >> >> > Sent via Blackberry> >> > > > " varun_trvd " <varun_trvd> >> > Wed, 11 Feb 2009 12:49:15> > > > LK discussion group Re: Saturn + moon> >> >> > Respected Vijay ji,> >> > You are right.> >> > Both intoxicants and poisons have been traditionally used in the > > indigenous medicines.> >> > Regards,> >> > Varun Trivedi> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > , " Vijay Goel " > > <goyalvj@> wrote:> >>> >> Respected Varunji,> >>> >> You are right juice mixed with water is the right substitute. If> >> person is health wise weak, he can take homoepatic medicine with > > water.> >>> >> For eg. In kidney stone, [astrologically saturn comes into play],> > few> >> drops of homoepatic medicine " berbellis " is taken in every glass> > of> >> water person drinks for few days, and that stone gets diluted and> >> breaks and comes out of body.> >>> >> Similarly mainly in stones of gal bladder, sometimes doctor > > advises to> >> drink lot of BEAR (diluted alcohol in water), and stone is pushed> > out> >> through urinary track.> >>> >> ----------------------- > >>> >> Last week i was in a professional maiden tour to Indore. I really> >> enjoyed it, here are few pics at the below link. > >>> >> http://picasaweb.google.com/goelvj/IndoreBookFair09# > >>> >> Thanking you,> >> Vijay Goel> >> Jaipur.> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> , " varun_trvd " > >> <varun_trvd@> wrote:> >> >> >> > Respected Vijay ji,> >> >> >> > Thanks for your input. You have very explicitly explained the> >> > rationale of this combination. > >> >> >> > Since a person can not live on juices alone for 43 days, and it> >> > might be very expensive also,therefore adding some juice to the> >> > water and then drinking it could be a viable alternative. > >> >> >> > Regards,> >> >> >> > Varun Trivedi> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > , " Vijay Goel " > >> > <goyalvj@> wrote:> >> > >> >> > > Respected Varun ji, Mahajanji, Kulbir Bhai & Members,> >> > >> >> > > As per classical astrology also Saturn + moon is Vish Yoga > > (poison> >> > > combination).> >> > >> >> > > Now drinking pure water will increase effect of moon.> >> > > Drinking pure alcohol will increase the effects of saturn. > >> > >> >> > > Now both is undesirable as per the views presented by your> >> > goodselves.> >> > >> >> > > Drinking pure alcohol in form of 'medicine' will still produce> > the> >> > > effect of saturn, if saturn is weak but benefic to health than> > this> >> > > remedy could work, else not.> >> > > > >> > > The idea is to reduce this poisonous combination which is> > making> >> > the> >> > > mind (moon) depressed (saturn), people drink alcohol (saturn) > > which> >> > > mixed in blood (moon liquid) 'seems' to make the person> > elevated> >> > > (venus) from depress state (saturn).> >> > > > >> > > So as per my view, Venusian effect is helping is out from this> >> > poison,> >> > > but this drinking alcohol is not a remedy, it is a mirage.> >> > > > >> > > Actually by drinking fruits juices [especially vitamin C, like> >> > orange> >> > > juice (venus) or juices which increases oxygen ions (sun) in> > the > >> > body]> >> > > will be the effective remedy, instead of drinking pure water> > as it> >> > > will increase depression, for 40-43 days.> >> > > > >> > > Please see if i am correct as per LK or not.> >> > >> >> > > Thanking you,> >> > > Best Wishes,> >> > > Vijay Goel> >> > > Jaipur. > >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > > , " varun_trvd " > >> > > <varun_trvd@> wrote:> >> > > >> >> > > > Dear Kulbir bhai,> >> > > >> >> > > > With Saturn + Moon, it is advised that the native should > > drink> >> > water> >> > > > after adding some thing to it, of his own choice and taste,> > for> >> > 43 days> >> > > > at least if he is suffering from weak vision. In other words> > he> >> > should> >> > > > not drink pure water but must adulterate it with some thing> > else.> >> > > >> >> > > > The cue to understand the logic of this upaya could possibly> > be> >> > in the> >> > > > line :> >> > > >> >> > > > " ek bhala to doosara manda, maut bahane gadhta ho " > >> > > >> >> > > > [ 1952 urdu ed ; page 839 ]> >> > > >> >> > > > Now drinking water alone would amount to adding strength to> > moon > >> > and> >> > > > this will make the saturn all the more manda.> >> > > >> >> > > > To my mind that appears to be the reason. Lets hear if some> > one> >> > has a> >> > > > better explanation.> >> > > >> >> > > > Regards,> >> > > >> >> > > > Varun Trivedi > >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > > >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > > >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > , kulbir bance > >> > > > <kulbirbance@> wrote:> >> > > > >> >> > > > > Varun ji,> >> > > > >> >> > > > > how does drinking diluted water helps in saturn+moon > >> > > > > combination.> >> > > > >> >> > > > > Regards.> >> > > > >> >> > > > > Kulbir> >> > > > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > On 2/9/09, varun_trvd varun_trvd@ wrote:> >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Kulbir bhai,> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > You are right that abstaining is desirable. Addiction to> >> > alcohol is> >> > > > > > likely to turn Saturn malefic.> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > But intake of the karak objects of Saturn, liquor for> >> > example, in> >> > > > > > moderation and as a medicine by way of an upaya would > > help.> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > We interpret these two apparently contradictory > > statements> >> > in terms> >> > > > of> >> > > > > > Saturn turned malefic and Saturn got weakened.> >> > > > > > > >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > The Lal Kitab takes Saturn as the karak of jism ki sehat> > and> >> > says : > >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > Sehat jism ho jab kabhi manda , saanp shafa khud deta > > ho†[> >> > > > 1952> >> > > > > > urdu ed ; page 605 ]> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Therefore when the Saturn gets weak indicated through the> >> > health> >> > > > loss,> >> > > > > > then it can be energized through the karaks of the Saturn> >> > itself> >> > > > when> >> > > > > > used as upaya and in moderation.> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > But addiction for the same can turn Saturn into a> > malefic;> >> > because> >> > > > in > >> > > > > > the case of addiction liquor is not taken as an upaya.> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Regards,> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > Varun Trivedi > >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > , kulbir bance> >> > > > > > kulbirbance@ wrote:> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >> Varun ji,> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >> saturn 4, 1952, pt. 2 says that drinking will effect > > health> >> > > > > >> adversaly. Pt 9 prescribes it as a remedy/medicine for> >> > health> >> > > > > >> problems. Is the condition listed in pt.2 applicable > > only> >> > when mars> >> > > > in> >> > > > > >> no.5 or it implies that the native should use alchohol> > only> >> > when > >> > > > > >> health problem crops up. If there is no ill health it is> >> > good to> >> > > > > >> abstain.> >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> Kulbir> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >> -- > >> > > > > >> Sent from my mobile device> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > > --> >> > > > > Sent from my mobile device> >> > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> > --> Sent from my mobile device> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Dear Kulbir bhai, Here is the quote from Pt. Krishna Ashant's book you've been referring about : Agar hum bhang ke hare patton ko ubaal kar pee javen to us se thora sa masti ka nasha paida hota hai . Aur yadi bhang ke patton ko ubaalte samay tambe ka tukada ya paisa bhi saath mein dala jaay to us mein nashe ki matra badi seema tak barh jayegi. ……. Mera yeh udaharan dene ka matlab yah hai ki jo admi vanaspati ya doosari prakritik cheezon ke bhed ko janata hai vah un mein se nayee shakti paida kar sakta hai aur us shakti se kisi doosari shakti ko khatma kar sakata hai. Missal ke taur par yadi bhang ka nasha bhayanak had tak pahunch jaye to thori si sharb peene se kuchh samaya pashchat khatm ho jayega. [ prashthabhoomi aur vyakhya, page 30 ] Mercury [ bhang leaves ] in the company of copper [ Mars ] the book says will be `sher ke daant' i.e. bitingly ferocious. That could be one explanation as to why bhang becomes all the more intoxicating with copper. Regards Varun Trivedi , kulbir bance <kulbirbance wrote:>> Varun ji,> > the part regarding saturn no.4 is settled. this querry is just> related to copper component used in bhaang. unfortunately i don't have the> book right with me now but i remember that ashant ji mentioned this in> explainaning masnoi parts. here he referred to sun and mercury thus mars. in> punjab where bhaang is consumed by mixing it in milk, incidentally the> wooden stick used for grinding is made of neem wood tree and at most places> where the stone pots are fixed for the purpose, they are also under a neem> tree. the proper use of copper coin, i have learned from your mail only. i> was confused regarding mars part as tobbacco has also been referred to as> item under purview of mars. the intoxinating part and mars may have some> relation which i have failed to understand.> > regards> > kulbir> > > On 2/12/09, varun_trvd varun_trvd wrote:> >> > Dear Kulbir bhai,> >> > Yes you are right. I also remember that Pt. Krishna Ashant ji has> > talked about copper coin being used while preparing bhaang. It is a> > normal practice in the area I live [ Braj pradesh ] where the> > real 'bhaangdis' rub the copper coin on the 'sil'[stone] which they> > use for making a bhaang paste. It is said to increase the> > intoxication ability of 'bhaang'.> >> > But I do not think that 'bhaang'is an ashiya of Saturn. It could be> > an ashiya of mercury because it is the green leaves of the 'bhaang'> > plant> >> > Therefore, I do not think that 'bhaang' can be accepted as an ashiya> > of saturn of the 4th house. Even otherwise we should take the liquid> > ashiya of saturn for the 4th house, which could be liquor.> >> > Have a nice day,> >> > Varun Trivedi> >> > <%40>,> > kulbir bance> > kulbirbance@ wrote:> > >> > > Varun ji,> > >> > > the discussion on saturn 4 has been indeed fruitful by> > > inputs by learned members and beautifully concluded by mahajan ji.> > > Iqbal ji's message reminded me of question for which i haven't> > found> > > answer. In pt. Krishan ashant's book the procedure of preparing> > bhang> > > finds mention in the introductory part where it is mentioned that> > > bhang comes up with real flavour only when a copper coin is used in> > > preperation. Plz explain if anyone has understood this.> > >> > > Regards.> > >> > > Kulbir.> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > On 2/11/09, Iqbal Singh punjabilovebug@ wrote:> > > > Dear Kulbir Paji,> > > >> > > > This is true today even with modern medicines. From the zehar we> > get the> > > > antivenom etc-> > > >> > > > For Saturn in 4th however, wouldn't Bhang be considered the most> > effective> > > > option for upaye?> > > >> > > > Best Regards,> > > > Iqbal> > > > USA> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Sent via Blackberry> > > >> > > > > > > > "varun_trvd" varun_trvd@> > > >> > > > Wed, 11 Feb 2009 12:49:15> > > > <%40>> > >> > > > LK discussion group Re: Saturn + moon> > > >> > > >> > > > Respected Vijay ji,> > > >> > > > You are right.> > > >> > > > Both intoxicants and poisons have been traditionally used in the> > > > indigenous medicines.> > > >> > > > Regards,> > > >> > > > Varun Trivedi> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > <%40>,> > "Vijay Goel"> > > > <goyalvj@> wrote:> > > >>> > > >> Respected Varunji,> > > >>> > > >> You are right juice mixed with water is the right substitute. If> > > >> person is health wise weak, he can take homoepatic medicine with> > > > water.> > > >>> > > >> For eg. In kidney stone, [astrologically saturn comes into> > play],> > > > few> > > >> drops of homoepatic medicine " berbellis" is taken in every> > glass> > > > of> > > >> water person drinks for few days, and that stone gets diluted> > and> > > >> breaks and comes out of body.> > > >>> > > >> Similarly mainly in stones of gal bladder, sometimes doctor> > > > advises to> > > >> drink lot of BEAR (diluted alcohol in water), and stone is> > pushed> > > > out> > > >> through urinary track.> > > >>> > > >> -----------------------> > > >>> > > >> Last week i was in a professional maiden tour to Indore. I> > really> > > >> enjoyed it, here are few pics at the below link. > > > >>> > > >> http://picasaweb.google.com/goelvj/IndoreBookFair09#> > > >>> > > >> Thanking you,> > > >> Vijay Goel> > > >> Jaipur.> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> <%40>,> > "varun_trvd"> > > >> <varun_trvd@> wrote:> > > >> >> > > >> > Respected Vijay ji,> > > >> >> > > >> > Thanks for your input. You have very explicitly explained the> > > >> > rationale of this combination.> > > >> >> > > >> > Since a person can not live on juices alone for 43 days, and> > it> > > >> > might be very expensive also,therefore adding some juice to> > the> > > >> > water and then drinking it could be a viable alternative.> > > >> >> > > >> > Regards,> > > >> >> > > >> > Varun Trivedi> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> > <%40>,> > "Vijay Goel"> > > >> > <goyalvj@> wrote:> > > >> > >> > > >> > > Respected Varun ji, Mahajanji, Kulbir Bhai & Members,> > > >> > >> > > >> > > As per classical astrology also Saturn + moon is Vish Yoga> > > > (poison> > > >> > > combination).> > > >> > >> > > >> > > Now drinking pure water will increase effect of moon.> > > >> > > Drinking pure alcohol will increase the effects of saturn.> > > >> > >> > > >> > > Now both is undesirable as per the views presented by your> > > >> > goodselves.> > > >> > >> > > >> > > Drinking pure alcohol in form of 'medicine' will still> > produce> > > > the> > > >> > > effect of saturn, if saturn is weak but benefic to health> > than> > > > this> > > >> > > remedy could work, else not.> > > >> > >> > > >> > > The idea is to reduce this poisonous combination which is> > > > making> > > >> > the> > > >> > > mind (moon) depressed (saturn), people drink alcohol> > (saturn)> > > > which> > > >> > > mixed in blood (moon liquid) 'seems' to make the person> > > > elevated> > > >> > > (venus) from depress state (saturn).> > > >> > >> > > >> > > So as per my view, Venusian effect is helping is out from> > this> > > >> > poison,> > > >> > > but this drinking alcohol is not a remedy, it is a mirage.> > > >> > >> > > >> > > Actually by drinking fruits juices [especially vitamin C,> > like> > > >> > orange> > > >> > > juice (venus) or juices which increases oxygen ions (sun) in> > > > the> > > >> > body]> > > >> > > will be the effective remedy, instead of drinking pure water> > > > as it> > > >> > > will increase depression, for 40-43 days.> > > >> > >> > > >> > > Please see if i am correct as per LK or not.> > > >> > >> > > >> > > Thanking you,> > > >> > > Best Wishes,> > > >> > > Vijay Goel> > > >> > > Jaipur.> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > > <%40>,> > "varun_trvd"> > > >> > > <varun_trvd@> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Kulbir bhai,> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > With Saturn + Moon, it is advised that the native should> > > > drink> > > >> > water> > > >> > > > after adding some thing to it, of his own choice and> > taste,> > > > for> > > >> > 43 days> > > >> > > > at least if he is suffering from weak vision. In other> > words> > > > he> > > >> > should> > > >> > > > not drink pure water but must adulterate it with some> > thing> > > > else.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > The cue to understand the logic of this upaya could> > possibly> > > > be> > > >> > in the> > > >> > > > line :> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > " ek bhala to doosara manda, maut bahane gadhta ho"> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > [ 1952 urdu ed ; page 839 ]> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Now drinking water alone would amount to adding strength> > to> > > > moon> > > >> > and> > > >> > > > this will make the saturn all the more manda.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > To my mind that appears to be the reason. Lets hear if> > some> > > > one> > > >> > has a> > > >> > > > better explanation.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Regards,> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Varun Trivedi> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > <%40>,> > kulbir bance> > > >> > > > <kulbirbance@> wrote:> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > Varun ji,> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > how does drinking diluted water helps in saturn+moon> > > >> > > > > combination.> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > Regards.> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > Kulbir> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > On 2/9/09, varun_trvd varun_trvd@ wrote:> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > Dear Kulbir bhai,> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > You are right that abstaining is desirable. Addiction> > to> > > >> > alcohol is> > > >> > > > > > likely to turn Saturn malefic.> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > But intake of the karak objects of Saturn, liquor for> > > >> > example, in> > > >> > > > > > moderation and as a medicine by way of an upaya would> > > > help.> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > We interpret these two apparently contradictory> > > > statements> > > >> > in terms> > > >> > > > of> > > >> > > > > > Saturn turned malefic and Saturn got weakened.> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > The Lal Kitab takes Saturn as the karak of jism ki> > sehat> > > > and> > > >> > says :> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > Sehat jism ho jab kabhi manda , saanp shafa khud deta> > > > ho†[> > > >> > > > 1952> > > >> > > > > > urdu ed ; page 605 ]> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > Therefore when the Saturn gets weak indicated through> > the> > > >> > health> > > >> > > > loss,> > > >> > > > > > then it can be energized through the karaks of the> > Saturn> > > >> > itself> > > >> > > > when> > > >> > > > > > used as upaya and in moderation.> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > But addiction for the same can turn Saturn into a> > > > malefic;> > > >> > because> > > >> > > > in> > > >> > > > > > the case of addiction liquor is not taken as an upaya.> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > Regards,> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > Varun Trivedi> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > <%40>,> > kulbir> > bance> > > >> > > > > > kulbirbance@ wrote:> > > >> > > > > >>> > > >> > > > > >> Varun ji,> > > >> > > > > >>> > > >> > > > > >> saturn 4, 1952, pt. 2 says that drinking will effect> > > > health> > > >> > > > > >> adversaly. Pt 9 prescribes it as a remedy/medicine> > for> > > >> > health> > > >> > > > > >> problems. Is the condition listed in pt.2 applicable> > > > only> > > >> > when mars> > > >> > > > in> > > >> > > > > >> no.5 or it implies that the native should use> > alchohol> > > > only> > > >> > when> > > >> > > > > >> health problem crops up. If there is no ill health> > it is> > > >> > good to> > > >> > > > > >> abstain.> > > >> > > > > >>> > > >> > > > > >> Kulbir> > > >> > > > > >>> > > >> > > > > >>> > > >> > > > > >>> > > >> > > > > >>> > > >> > > > > >>> > > >> > > > > >>> > > >> > > > > >>> > > >> > > > > >>> > > >> > > > > >> --> > > >> > > > > >> Sent from my mobile device> > > >> > > > > >>> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > --> > > >> > > > > Sent from my mobile device> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > > >> >> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > > --> > > Sent from my mobile device> > >> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Varun ji, thanks, this point had been lingering in my thoughts since the time i read it. Approximately since 5 years. Regards. Kulbir. On 2/12/09, varun_trvd <varun_trvd wrote: > > Dear Kulbir bhai, > > > > Here is the quote from Pt. Krishna Ashant's book you've been > referring about : > > > > Agar hum bhang ke hare patton ko ubaal kar pee javen to us se thora sa > masti ka nasha paida hota hai . Aur yadi bhang ke patton ko ubaalte > samay tambe ka tukada ya paisa bhi saath mein dala jaay to us mein > nashe ki matra badi seema tak barh jayegi. ……. > > > > Mera yeh udaharan dene ka matlab yah hai ki jo admi vanaspati ya doosari > prakritik cheezon ke bhed ko janata hai vah un mein se nayee shakti > paida kar sakta hai aur us shakti se kisi doosari shakti ko khatma kar > sakata hai. Missal ke taur par yadi bhang ka nasha bhayanak had tak > pahunch jaye to thori si sharb peene se kuchh samaya pashchat khatm ho > jayega. [ prashthabhoomi aur vyakhya, page 30 ] > > > > Mercury [ bhang leaves ] in the company of copper [ Mars ] the book says > will be `sher ke daant' i.e. bitingly ferocious. That could be > one explanation as to why bhang becomes all the more intoxicating with > copper. > > > > > > Regards > > > > Varun Trivedi > > > > > > > > , kulbir bance > <kulbirbance wrote: >> >> Varun ji, >> >> the part regarding saturn no.4 is settled. this querry is just >> related to copper component used in bhaang. unfortunately i don't have > the >> book right with me now but i remember that ashant ji mentioned this in >> explainaning masnoi parts. here he referred to sun and mercury thus > mars. in >> punjab where bhaang is consumed by mixing it in milk, incidentally the >> wooden stick used for grinding is made of neem wood tree and at most > places >> where the stone pots are fixed for the purpose, they are also under a > neem >> tree. the proper use of copper coin, i have learned from your mail > only. i >> was confused regarding mars part as tobbacco has also been referred to > as >> item under purview of mars. the intoxinating part and mars may have > some >> relation which i have failed to understand. >> >> regards >> >> kulbir >> >> >> On 2/12/09, varun_trvd varun_trvd wrote: >> > >> > Dear Kulbir bhai, >> > >> > Yes you are right. I also remember that Pt. Krishna Ashant ji has >> > talked about copper coin being used while preparing bhaang. It is a >> > normal practice in the area I live [ Braj pradesh ] where the >> > real 'bhaangdis' rub the copper coin on the 'sil'[stone] which they >> > use for making a bhaang paste. It is said to increase the >> > intoxication ability of 'bhaang'. >> > >> > But I do not think that 'bhaang'is an ashiya of Saturn. It could be >> > an ashiya of mercury because it is the green leaves of the 'bhaang' >> > plant >> > >> > Therefore, I do not think that 'bhaang' can be accepted as an ashiya >> > of saturn of the 4th house. Even otherwise we should take the liquid >> > ashiya of saturn for the 4th house, which could be liquor. >> > >> > Have a nice day, >> > >> > Varun Trivedi >> > >> > --- In > <%40.co\ > m>, >> > kulbir bance >> > kulbirbance@ wrote: >> > > >> > > Varun ji, >> > > >> > > the discussion on saturn 4 has been indeed fruitful by >> > > inputs by learned members and beautifully concluded by mahajan ji. >> > > Iqbal ji's message reminded me of question for which i haven't >> > found >> > > answer. In pt. Krishan ashant's book the procedure of preparing >> > bhang >> > > finds mention in the introductory part where it is mentioned that >> > > bhang comes up with real flavour only when a copper coin is used > in >> > > preperation. Plz explain if anyone has understood this. >> > > >> > > Regards. >> > > >> > > Kulbir. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > On 2/11/09, Iqbal Singh punjabilovebug@ wrote: >> > > > Dear Kulbir Paji, >> > > > >> > > > This is true today even with modern medicines. From the zehar we >> > get the >> > > > antivenom etc- >> > > > >> > > > For Saturn in 4th however, wouldn't Bhang be considered the most >> > effective >> > > > option for upaye? >> > > > >> > > > Best Regards, >> > > > Iqbal >> > > > USA >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Sent via Blackberry >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > " varun_trvd " varun_trvd@ >> > > > >> > > > Wed, 11 Feb 2009 12:49:15 >> > > > To: > <%40.co\ > m> >> > > >> > > > LK discussion group Re: Saturn + moon >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Respected Vijay ji, >> > > > >> > > > You are right. >> > > > >> > > > Both intoxicants and poisons have been traditionally used in the >> > > > indigenous medicines. >> > > > >> > > > Regards, >> > > > >> > > > Varun Trivedi >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > --- In > <%40.co\ > m>, >> > " Vijay Goel " >> > > > <goyalvj@> wrote: >> > > >> >> > > >> Respected Varunji, >> > > >> >> > > >> You are right juice mixed with water is the right substitute. > If >> > > >> person is health wise weak, he can take homoepatic medicine > with >> > > > water. >> > > >> >> > > >> For eg. In kidney stone, [astrologically saturn comes into >> > play], >> > > > few >> > > >> drops of homoepatic medicine " berbellis " is taken in every >> > glass >> > > > of >> > > >> water person drinks for few days, and that stone gets diluted >> > and >> > > >> breaks and comes out of body. >> > > >> >> > > >> Similarly mainly in stones of gal bladder, sometimes doctor >> > > > advises to >> > > >> drink lot of BEAR (diluted alcohol in water), and stone is >> > pushed >> > > > out >> > > >> through urinary track. >> > > >> >> > > >> ----------------------- >> > > >> >> > > >> Last week i was in a professional maiden tour to Indore. I >> > really >> > > >> enjoyed it, here are few pics at the below link. >> > > >> >> > > >> http://picasaweb.google.com/goelvj/IndoreBookFair09# >> > > >> >> > > >> Thanking you, >> > > >> Vijay Goel >> > > >> Jaipur. >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> --- In > <%40.co\ > m>, >> > " varun_trvd " >> > > >> <varun_trvd@> wrote: >> > > >> > >> > > >> > Respected Vijay ji, >> > > >> > >> > > >> > Thanks for your input. You have very explicitly explained the >> > > >> > rationale of this combination. >> > > >> > >> > > >> > Since a person can not live on juices alone for 43 days, and >> > it >> > > >> > might be very expensive also,therefore adding some juice to >> > the >> > > >> > water and then drinking it could be a viable alternative. >> > > >> > >> > > >> > Regards, >> > > >> > >> > > >> > Varun Trivedi >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > --- In > <%40.co\ > m>, >> > " Vijay Goel " >> > > >> > <goyalvj@> wrote: >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Respected Varun ji, Mahajanji, Kulbir Bhai & Members, >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > As per classical astrology also Saturn + moon is Vish Yoga >> > > > (poison >> > > >> > > combination). >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Now drinking pure water will increase effect of moon. >> > > >> > > Drinking pure alcohol will increase the effects of saturn. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Now both is undesirable as per the views presented by your >> > > >> > goodselves. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Drinking pure alcohol in form of 'medicine' will still >> > produce >> > > > the >> > > >> > > effect of saturn, if saturn is weak but benefic to health >> > than >> > > > this >> > > >> > > remedy could work, else not. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > The idea is to reduce this poisonous combination which is >> > > > making >> > > >> > the >> > > >> > > mind (moon) depressed (saturn), people drink alcohol >> > (saturn) >> > > > which >> > > >> > > mixed in blood (moon liquid) 'seems' to make the person >> > > > elevated >> > > >> > > (venus) from depress state (saturn). >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > So as per my view, Venusian effect is helping is out from >> > this >> > > >> > poison, >> > > >> > > but this drinking alcohol is not a remedy, it is a mirage. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Actually by drinking fruits juices [especially vitamin C, >> > like >> > > >> > orange >> > > >> > > juice (venus) or juices which increases oxygen ions (sun) > in >> > > > the >> > > >> > body] >> > > >> > > will be the effective remedy, instead of drinking pure > water >> > > > as it >> > > >> > > will increase depression, for 40-43 days. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Please see if i am correct as per LK or not. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Thanking you, >> > > >> > > Best Wishes, >> > > >> > > Vijay Goel >> > > >> > > Jaipur. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > --- In > <%40.co\ > m>, >> > " varun_trvd " >> > > >> > > <varun_trvd@> wrote: >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Kulbir bhai, >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > With Saturn + Moon, it is advised that the native should >> > > > drink >> > > >> > water >> > > >> > > > after adding some thing to it, of his own choice and >> > taste, >> > > > for >> > > >> > 43 days >> > > >> > > > at least if he is suffering from weak vision. In other >> > words >> > > > he >> > > >> > should >> > > >> > > > not drink pure water but must adulterate it with some >> > thing >> > > > else. >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > The cue to understand the logic of this upaya could >> > possibly >> > > > be >> > > >> > in the >> > > >> > > > line : >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > " ek bhala to doosara manda, maut bahane gadhta ho " >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > [ 1952 urdu ed ; page 839 ] >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > Now drinking water alone would amount to adding strength >> > to >> > > > moon >> > > >> > and >> > > >> > > > this will make the saturn all the more manda. >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > To my mind that appears to be the reason. Lets hear if >> > some >> > > > one >> > > >> > has a >> > > >> > > > better explanation. >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > Regards, >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > Varun Trivedi >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > --- In > <%40.co\ > m>, >> > kulbir bance >> > > >> > > > <kulbirbance@> wrote: >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > Varun ji, >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > how does drinking diluted water helps in saturn+moon >> > > >> > > > > combination. >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > Regards. >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > Kulbir >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > On 2/9/09, varun_trvd varun_trvd@ wrote: >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > Dear Kulbir bhai, >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > You are right that abstaining is desirable. Addiction >> > to >> > > >> > alcohol is >> > > >> > > > > > likely to turn Saturn malefic. >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > But intake of the karak objects of Saturn, liquor for >> > > >> > example, in >> > > >> > > > > > moderation and as a medicine by way of an upaya would >> > > > help. >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > We interpret these two apparently contradictory >> > > > statements >> > > >> > in terms >> > > >> > > > of >> > > >> > > > > > Saturn turned malefic and Saturn got weakened. >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > The Lal Kitab takes Saturn as the karak of jism ki >> > sehat >> > > > and >> > > >> > says : >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > Sehat jism ho jab kabhi manda , saanp shafa khud deta >> > > > ho†[ >> > > >> > > > 1952 >> > > >> > > > > > urdu ed ; page 605 ] >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > Therefore when the Saturn gets weak indicated through >> > the >> > > >> > health >> > > >> > > > loss, >> > > >> > > > > > then it can be energized through the karaks of the >> > Saturn >> > > >> > itself >> > > >> > > > when >> > > >> > > > > > used as upaya and in moderation. >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > But addiction for the same can turn Saturn into a >> > > > malefic; >> > > >> > because >> > > >> > > > in >> > > >> > > > > > the case of addiction liquor is not taken as an > upaya. >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > Regards, >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > Varun Trivedi >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > --- In > <%40.co\ > m>, >> > kulbir >> > bance >> > > >> > > > > > kulbirbance@ wrote: >> > > >> > > > > >> >> > > >> > > > > >> Varun ji, >> > > >> > > > > >> >> > > >> > > > > >> saturn 4, 1952, pt. 2 says that drinking will effect >> > > > health >> > > >> > > > > >> adversaly. Pt 9 prescribes it as a remedy/medicine >> > for >> > > >> > health >> > > >> > > > > >> problems. Is the condition listed in pt.2 applicable >> > > > only >> > > >> > when mars >> > > >> > > > in >> > > >> > > > > >> no.5 or it implies that the native should use >> > alchohol >> > > > only >> > > >> > when >> > > >> > > > > >> health problem crops up. If there is no ill health >> > it is >> > > >> > good to >> > > >> > > > > >> abstain. >> > > >> > > > > >> >> > > >> > > > > >> Kulbir >> > > >> > > > > >> >> > > >> > > > > >> >> > > >> > > > > >> >> > > >> > > > > >> >> > > >> > > > > >> >> > > >> > > > > >> >> > > >> > > > > >> >> > > >> > > > > >> >> > > >> > > > > >> -- >> > > >> > > > > >> Sent from my mobile device >> > > >> > > > > >> >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > -- >> > > >> > > > > Sent from my mobile device >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > > >> >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > Sent from my mobile device >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > -- Sent from my mobile device Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Varun ji, please share some information about tobacco and mars. So far i have got only one answer that it has been placed under mars as it influences blood circulation/pressure. Thanks. Kulbir. On 2/12/09, varun_trvd <varun_trvd wrote: > > Dear Kulbir bhai, > > > > Here is the quote from Pt. Krishna Ashant's book you've been > referring about : > > > > Agar hum bhang ke hare patton ko ubaal kar pee javen to us se thora sa > masti ka nasha paida hota hai . Aur yadi bhang ke patton ko ubaalte > samay tambe ka tukada ya paisa bhi saath mein dala jaay to us mein > nashe ki matra badi seema tak barh jayegi. ……. > > > > Mera yeh udaharan dene ka matlab yah hai ki jo admi vanaspati ya doosari > prakritik cheezon ke bhed ko janata hai vah un mein se nayee shakti > paida kar sakta hai aur us shakti se kisi doosari shakti ko khatma kar > sakata hai. Missal ke taur par yadi bhang ka nasha bhayanak had tak > pahunch jaye to thori si sharb peene se kuchh samaya pashchat khatm ho > jayega. [ prashthabhoomi aur vyakhya, page 30 ] > > > > Mercury [ bhang leaves ] in the company of copper [ Mars ] the book says > will be `sher ke daant' i.e. bitingly ferocious. That could be > one explanation as to why bhang becomes all the more intoxicating with > copper. > > > > > > Regards > > > > Varun Trivedi > > > > > > > > , kulbir bance > <kulbirbance wrote: >> >> Varun ji, >> >> the part regarding saturn no.4 is settled. this querry is just >> related to copper component used in bhaang. unfortunately i don't have > the >> book right with me now but i remember that ashant ji mentioned this in >> explainaning masnoi parts. here he referred to sun and mercury thus > mars. in >> punjab where bhaang is consumed by mixing it in milk, incidentally the >> wooden stick used for grinding is made of neem wood tree and at most > places >> where the stone pots are fixed for the purpose, they are also under a > neem >> tree. the proper use of copper coin, i have learned from your mail > only. i >> was confused regarding mars part as tobbacco has also been referred to > as >> item under purview of mars. the intoxinating part and mars may have > some >> relation which i have failed to understand. >> >> regards >> >> kulbir >> >> >> On 2/12/09, varun_trvd varun_trvd wrote: >> > >> > Dear Kulbir bhai, >> > >> > Yes you are right. I also remember that Pt. Krishna Ashant ji has >> > talked about copper coin being used while preparing bhaang. It is a >> > normal practice in the area I live [ Braj pradesh ] where the >> > real 'bhaangdis' rub the copper coin on the 'sil'[stone] which they >> > use for making a bhaang paste. It is said to increase the >> > intoxication ability of 'bhaang'. >> > >> > But I do not think that 'bhaang'is an ashiya of Saturn. It could be >> > an ashiya of mercury because it is the green leaves of the 'bhaang' >> > plant >> > >> > Therefore, I do not think that 'bhaang' can be accepted as an ashiya >> > of saturn of the 4th house. Even otherwise we should take the liquid >> > ashiya of saturn for the 4th house, which could be liquor. >> > >> > Have a nice day, >> > >> > Varun Trivedi >> > >> > --- In > <%40.co\ > m>, >> > kulbir bance >> > kulbirbance@ wrote: >> > > >> > > Varun ji, >> > > >> > > the discussion on saturn 4 has been indeed fruitful by >> > > inputs by learned members and beautifully concluded by mahajan ji. >> > > Iqbal ji's message reminded me of question for which i haven't >> > found >> > > answer. In pt. Krishan ashant's book the procedure of preparing >> > bhang >> > > finds mention in the introductory part where it is mentioned that >> > > bhang comes up with real flavour only when a copper coin is used > in >> > > preperation. Plz explain if anyone has understood this. >> > > >> > > Regards. >> > > >> > > Kulbir. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > On 2/11/09, Iqbal Singh punjabilovebug@ wrote: >> > > > Dear Kulbir Paji, >> > > > >> > > > This is true today even with modern medicines. From the zehar we >> > get the >> > > > antivenom etc- >> > > > >> > > > For Saturn in 4th however, wouldn't Bhang be considered the most >> > effective >> > > > option for upaye? >> > > > >> > > > Best Regards, >> > > > Iqbal >> > > > USA >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Sent via Blackberry >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > " varun_trvd " varun_trvd@ >> > > > >> > > > Wed, 11 Feb 2009 12:49:15 >> > > > To: > <%40.co\ > m> >> > > >> > > > LK discussion group Re: Saturn + moon >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Respected Vijay ji, >> > > > >> > > > You are right. >> > > > >> > > > Both intoxicants and poisons have been traditionally used in the >> > > > indigenous medicines. >> > > > >> > > > Regards, >> > > > >> > > > Varun Trivedi >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > --- In > <%40.co\ > m>, >> > " Vijay Goel " >> > > > <goyalvj@> wrote: >> > > >> >> > > >> Respected Varunji, >> > > >> >> > > >> You are right juice mixed with water is the right substitute. > If >> > > >> person is health wise weak, he can take homoepatic medicine > with >> > > > water. >> > > >> >> > > >> For eg. In kidney stone, [astrologically saturn comes into >> > play], >> > > > few >> > > >> drops of homoepatic medicine " berbellis " is taken in every >> > glass >> > > > of >> > > >> water person drinks for few days, and that stone gets diluted >> > and >> > > >> breaks and comes out of body. >> > > >> >> > > >> Similarly mainly in stones of gal bladder, sometimes doctor >> > > > advises to >> > > >> drink lot of BEAR (diluted alcohol in water), and stone is >> > pushed >> > > > out >> > > >> through urinary track. >> > > >> >> > > >> ----------------------- >> > > >> >> > > >> Last week i was in a professional maiden tour to Indore. I >> > really >> > > >> enjoyed it, here are few pics at the below link. >> > > >> >> > > >> http://picasaweb.google.com/goelvj/IndoreBookFair09# >> > > >> >> > > >> Thanking you, >> > > >> Vijay Goel >> > > >> Jaipur. >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> --- In > <%40.co\ > m>, >> > " varun_trvd " >> > > >> <varun_trvd@> wrote: >> > > >> > >> > > >> > Respected Vijay ji, >> > > >> > >> > > >> > Thanks for your input. You have very explicitly explained the >> > > >> > rationale of this combination. >> > > >> > >> > > >> > Since a person can not live on juices alone for 43 days, and >> > it >> > > >> > might be very expensive also,therefore adding some juice to >> > the >> > > >> > water and then drinking it could be a viable alternative. >> > > >> > >> > > >> > Regards, >> > > >> > >> > > >> > Varun Trivedi >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > --- In > <%40.co\ > m>, >> > " Vijay Goel " >> > > >> > <goyalvj@> wrote: >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Respected Varun ji, Mahajanji, Kulbir Bhai & Members, >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > As per classical astrology also Saturn + moon is Vish Yoga >> > > > (poison >> > > >> > > combination). >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Now drinking pure water will increase effect of moon. >> > > >> > > Drinking pure alcohol will increase the effects of saturn. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Now both is undesirable as per the views presented by your >> > > >> > goodselves. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Drinking pure alcohol in form of 'medicine' will still >> > produce >> > > > the >> > > >> > > effect of saturn, if saturn is weak but benefic to health >> > than >> > > > this >> > > >> > > remedy could work, else not. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > The idea is to reduce this poisonous combination which is >> > > > making >> > > >> > the >> > > >> > > mind (moon) depressed (saturn), people drink alcohol >> > (saturn) >> > > > which >> > > >> > > mixed in blood (moon liquid) 'seems' to make the person >> > > > elevated >> > > >> > > (venus) from depress state (saturn). >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > So as per my view, Venusian effect is helping is out from >> > this >> > > >> > poison, >> > > >> > > but this drinking alcohol is not a remedy, it is a mirage. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Actually by drinking fruits juices [especially vitamin C, >> > like >> > > >> > orange >> > > >> > > juice (venus) or juices which increases oxygen ions (sun) > in >> > > > the >> > > >> > body] >> > > >> > > will be the effective remedy, instead of drinking pure > water >> > > > as it >> > > >> > > will increase depression, for 40-43 days. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Please see if i am correct as per LK or not. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Thanking you, >> > > >> > > Best Wishes, >> > > >> > > Vijay Goel >> > > >> > > Jaipur. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > --- In > <%40.co\ > m>, >> > " varun_trvd " >> > > >> > > <varun_trvd@> wrote: >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Kulbir bhai, >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > With Saturn + Moon, it is advised that the native should >> > > > drink >> > > >> > water >> > > >> > > > after adding some thing to it, of his own choice and >> > taste, >> > > > for >> > > >> > 43 days >> > > >> > > > at least if he is suffering from weak vision. In other >> > words >> > > > he >> > > >> > should >> > > >> > > > not drink pure water but must adulterate it with some >> > thing >> > > > else. >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > The cue to understand the logic of this upaya could >> > possibly >> > > > be >> > > >> > in the >> > > >> > > > line : >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > " ek bhala to doosara manda, maut bahane gadhta ho " >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > [ 1952 urdu ed ; page 839 ] >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > Now drinking water alone would amount to adding strength >> > to >> > > > moon >> > > >> > and >> > > >> > > > this will make the saturn all the more manda. >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > To my mind that appears to be the reason. Lets hear if >> > some >> > > > one >> > > >> > has a >> > > >> > > > better explanation. >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > Regards, >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > Varun Trivedi >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > --- In > <%40.co\ > m>, >> > kulbir bance >> > > >> > > > <kulbirbance@> wrote: >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > Varun ji, >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > how does drinking diluted water helps in saturn+moon >> > > >> > > > > combination. >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > Regards. >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > Kulbir >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > On 2/9/09, varun_trvd varun_trvd@ wrote: >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > Dear Kulbir bhai, >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > You are right that abstaining is desirable. Addiction >> > to >> > > >> > alcohol is >> > > >> > > > > > likely to turn Saturn malefic. >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > But intake of the karak objects of Saturn, liquor for >> > > >> > example, in >> > > >> > > > > > moderation and as a medicine by way of an upaya would >> > > > help. >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > We interpret these two apparently contradictory >> > > > statements >> > > >> > in terms >> > > >> > > > of >> > > >> > > > > > Saturn turned malefic and Saturn got weakened. >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > The Lal Kitab takes Saturn as the karak of jism ki >> > sehat >> > > > and >> > > >> > says : >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > Sehat jism ho jab kabhi manda , saanp shafa khud deta >> > > > ho†[ >> > > >> > > > 1952 >> > > >> > > > > > urdu ed ; page 605 ] >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > Therefore when the Saturn gets weak indicated through >> > the >> > > >> > health >> > > >> > > > loss, >> > > >> > > > > > then it can be energized through the karaks of the >> > Saturn >> > > >> > itself >> > > >> > > > when >> > > >> > > > > > used as upaya and in moderation. >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > But addiction for the same can turn Saturn into a >> > > > malefic; >> > > >> > because >> > > >> > > > in >> > > >> > > > > > the case of addiction liquor is not taken as an > upaya. >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > Regards, >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > Varun Trivedi >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > --- In > <%40.co\ > m>, >> > kulbir >> > bance >> > > >> > > > > > kulbirbance@ wrote: >> > > >> > > > > >> >> > > >> > > > > >> Varun ji, >> > > >> > > > > >> >> > > >> > > > > >> saturn 4, 1952, pt. 2 says that drinking will effect >> > > > health >> > > >> > > > > >> adversaly. Pt 9 prescribes it as a remedy/medicine >> > for >> > > >> > health >> > > >> > > > > >> problems. Is the condition listed in pt.2 applicable >> > > > only >> > > >> > when mars >> > > >> > > > in >> > > >> > > > > >> no.5 or it implies that the native should use >> > alchohol >> > > > only >> > > >> > when >> > > >> > > > > >> health problem crops up. If there is no ill health >> > it is >> > > >> > good to >> > > >> > > > > >> abstain. >> > > >> > > > > >> >> > > >> > > > > >> Kulbir >> > > >> > > > > >> >> > > >> > > > > >> >> > > >> > > > > >> >> > > >> > > > > >> >> > > >> > > > > >> >> > > >> > > > > >> >> > > >> > > > > >> >> > > >> > > > > >> >> > > >> > > > > >> -- >> > > >> > > > > >> Sent from my mobile device >> > > >> > > > > >> >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > -- >> > > >> > > > > Sent from my mobile device >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > > >> >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > Sent from my mobile device >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > -- Sent from my mobile device Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Dear Kulbir bhai, I am not sure whether Mars is the karak of tobacco. Smoking tobacco as a cigrette, bidi or hukkah is an activity of Rahu. If you remember for rahu in the 11th one of the upaya suggested is that the native should smoke cigarette in a silver holder. For all we know it could be because of smoke [ dhuan ] If ever I get any information about tobacco, I will share with the group. Regards, Varun Trivedi , kulbir bance <kulbirbance wrote: > > Varun ji, > > please share some information about tobacco and mars. So far > i have got only one answer that it has been placed under mars as it > influences blood circulation/pressure. > > Thanks. > > Kulbir. > > On 2/12/09, varun_trvd <varun_trvd wrote: > > > > Dear Kulbir bhai, > > > > > > > > Here is the quote from Pt. Krishna Ashant's book you've been > > referring about : > > > > > > > > Agar hum bhang ke hare patton ko ubaal kar pee javen to us se thora sa > > masti ka nasha paida hota hai . Aur yadi bhang ke patton ko ubaalte > > samay tambe ka tukada ya paisa bhi saath mein dala jaay to us mein > > nashe ki matra badi seema tak barh jayegi. ……. > > > > > > > > Mera yeh udaharan dene ka matlab yah hai ki jo admi vanaspati ya doosari > > prakritik cheezon ke bhed ko janata hai vah un mein se nayee shakti > > paida kar sakta hai aur us shakti se kisi doosari shakti ko khatma kar > > sakata hai. Missal ke taur par yadi bhang ka nasha bhayanak had tak > > pahunch jaye to thori si sharb peene se kuchh samaya pashchat khatm ho > > jayega. [ prashthabhoomi aur vyakhya, page 30 ] > > > > > > > > Mercury [ bhang leaves ] in the company of copper [ Mars ] the book says > > will be `sher ke daant' i.e. bitingly ferocious. That could be > > one explanation as to why bhang becomes all the more intoxicating with > > copper. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , kulbir bance > > <kulbirbance@> wrote: > >> > >> Varun ji, > >> > >> the part regarding saturn no.4 is settled. this querry is just > >> related to copper component used in bhaang. unfortunately i don't have > > the > >> book right with me now but i remember that ashant ji mentioned this in > >> explainaning masnoi parts. here he referred to sun and mercury thus > > mars. in > >> punjab where bhaang is consumed by mixing it in milk, incidentally the > >> wooden stick used for grinding is made of neem wood tree and at most > > places > >> where the stone pots are fixed for the purpose, they are also under a > > neem > >> tree. the proper use of copper coin, i have learned from your mail > > only. i > >> was confused regarding mars part as tobbacco has also been referred to > > as > >> item under purview of mars. the intoxinating part and mars may have > > some > >> relation which i have failed to understand. > >> > >> regards > >> > >> kulbir > >> > >> > >> On 2/12/09, varun_trvd varun_trvd@ wrote: > >> > > >> > Dear Kulbir bhai, > >> > > >> > Yes you are right. I also remember that Pt. Krishna Ashant ji has > >> > talked about copper coin being used while preparing bhaang. It is a > >> > normal practice in the area I live [ Braj pradesh ] where the > >> > real 'bhaangdis' rub the copper coin on the 'sil'[stone] which they > >> > use for making a bhaang paste. It is said to increase the > >> > intoxication ability of 'bhaang'. > >> > > >> > But I do not think that 'bhaang'is an ashiya of Saturn. It could be > >> > an ashiya of mercury because it is the green leaves of the 'bhaang' > >> > plant > >> > > >> > Therefore, I do not think that 'bhaang' can be accepted as an ashiya > >> > of saturn of the 4th house. Even otherwise we should take the liquid > >> > ashiya of saturn for the 4th house, which could be liquor. > >> > > >> > Have a nice day, > >> > > >> > Varun Trivedi > >> > > >> > --- In > > <% 40.co\ > > m>, > >> > kulbir bance > >> > kulbirbance@ wrote: > >> > > > >> > > Varun ji, > >> > > > >> > > the discussion on saturn 4 has been indeed fruitful by > >> > > inputs by learned members and beautifully concluded by mahajan ji. > >> > > Iqbal ji's message reminded me of question for which i haven't > >> > found > >> > > answer. In pt. Krishan ashant's book the procedure of preparing > >> > bhang > >> > > finds mention in the introductory part where it is mentioned that > >> > > bhang comes up with real flavour only when a copper coin is used > > in > >> > > preperation. Plz explain if anyone has understood this. > >> > > > >> > > Regards. > >> > > > >> > > Kulbir. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > On 2/11/09, Iqbal Singh punjabilovebug@ wrote: > >> > > > Dear Kulbir Paji, > >> > > > > >> > > > This is true today even with modern medicines. From the zehar we > >> > get the > >> > > > antivenom etc- > >> > > > > >> > > > For Saturn in 4th however, wouldn't Bhang be considered the most > >> > effective > >> > > > option for upaye? > >> > > > > >> > > > Best Regards, > >> > > > Iqbal > >> > > > USA > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > Sent via Blackberry > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > " varun_trvd " varun_trvd@ > >> > > > > >> > > > Wed, 11 Feb 2009 12:49:15 > >> > > > To: > > <% 40.co\ > > m> > >> > > > >> > > > LK discussion group Re: Saturn + moon > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > Respected Vijay ji, > >> > > > > >> > > > You are right. > >> > > > > >> > > > Both intoxicants and poisons have been traditionally used in the > >> > > > indigenous medicines. > >> > > > > >> > > > Regards, > >> > > > > >> > > > Varun Trivedi > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > --- In > > <% 40.co\ > > m>, > >> > " Vijay Goel " > >> > > > <goyalvj@> wrote: > >> > > >> > >> > > >> Respected Varunji, > >> > > >> > >> > > >> You are right juice mixed with water is the right substitute. > > If > >> > > >> person is health wise weak, he can take homoepatic medicine > > with > >> > > > water. > >> > > >> > >> > > >> For eg. In kidney stone, [astrologically saturn comes into > >> > play], > >> > > > few > >> > > >> drops of homoepatic medicine " berbellis " is taken in every > >> > glass > >> > > > of > >> > > >> water person drinks for few days, and that stone gets diluted > >> > and > >> > > >> breaks and comes out of body. > >> > > >> > >> > > >> Similarly mainly in stones of gal bladder, sometimes doctor > >> > > > advises to > >> > > >> drink lot of BEAR (diluted alcohol in water), and stone is > >> > pushed > >> > > > out > >> > > >> through urinary track. > >> > > >> > >> > > >> ----------------------- > >> > > >> > >> > > >> Last week i was in a professional maiden tour to Indore. I > >> > really > >> > > >> enjoyed it, here are few pics at the below link. > >> > > >> > >> > > >> http://picasaweb.google.com/goelvj/IndoreBookFair09# > >> > > >> > >> > > >> Thanking you, > >> > > >> Vijay Goel > >> > > >> Jaipur. > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> --- In > > <% 40.co\ > > m>, > >> > " varun_trvd " > >> > > >> <varun_trvd@> wrote: > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Respected Vijay ji, > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Thanks for your input. You have very explicitly explained the > >> > > >> > rationale of this combination. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Since a person can not live on juices alone for 43 days, and > >> > it > >> > > >> > might be very expensive also,therefore adding some juice to > >> > the > >> > > >> > water and then drinking it could be a viable alternative. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Regards, > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Varun Trivedi > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > --- In > > <% 40.co\ > > m>, > >> > " Vijay Goel " > >> > > >> > <goyalvj@> wrote: > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > Respected Varun ji, Mahajanji, Kulbir Bhai & Members, > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > As per classical astrology also Saturn + moon is Vish Yoga > >> > > > (poison > >> > > >> > > combination). > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > Now drinking pure water will increase effect of moon. > >> > > >> > > Drinking pure alcohol will increase the effects of saturn. > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > Now both is undesirable as per the views presented by your > >> > > >> > goodselves. > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > Drinking pure alcohol in form of 'medicine' will still > >> > produce > >> > > > the > >> > > >> > > effect of saturn, if saturn is weak but benefic to health > >> > than > >> > > > this > >> > > >> > > remedy could work, else not. > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > The idea is to reduce this poisonous combination which is > >> > > > making > >> > > >> > the > >> > > >> > > mind (moon) depressed (saturn), people drink alcohol > >> > (saturn) > >> > > > which > >> > > >> > > mixed in blood (moon liquid) 'seems' to make the person > >> > > > elevated > >> > > >> > > (venus) from depress state (saturn). > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > So as per my view, Venusian effect is helping is out from > >> > this > >> > > >> > poison, > >> > > >> > > but this drinking alcohol is not a remedy, it is a mirage. > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > Actually by drinking fruits juices [especially vitamin C, > >> > like > >> > > >> > orange > >> > > >> > > juice (venus) or juices which increases oxygen ions (sun) > > in > >> > > > the > >> > > >> > body] > >> > > >> > > will be the effective remedy, instead of drinking pure > > water > >> > > > as it > >> > > >> > > will increase depression, for 40-43 days. > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > Please see if i am correct as per LK or not. > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > Thanking you, > >> > > >> > > Best Wishes, > >> > > >> > > Vijay Goel > >> > > >> > > Jaipur. > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > --- In > > <% 40.co\ > > m>, > >> > " varun_trvd " > >> > > >> > > <varun_trvd@> wrote: > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Kulbir bhai, > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > With Saturn + Moon, it is advised that the native should > >> > > > drink > >> > > >> > water > >> > > >> > > > after adding some thing to it, of his own choice and > >> > taste, > >> > > > for > >> > > >> > 43 days > >> > > >> > > > at least if he is suffering from weak vision. In other > >> > words > >> > > > he > >> > > >> > should > >> > > >> > > > not drink pure water but must adulterate it with some > >> > thing > >> > > > else. > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > The cue to understand the logic of this upaya could > >> > possibly > >> > > > be > >> > > >> > in the > >> > > >> > > > line : > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > " ek bhala to doosara manda, maut bahane gadhta ho " > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > [ 1952 urdu ed ; page 839 ] > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > Now drinking water alone would amount to adding strength > >> > to > >> > > > moon > >> > > >> > and > >> > > >> > > > this will make the saturn all the more manda. > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > To my mind that appears to be the reason. Lets hear if > >> > some > >> > > > one > >> > > >> > has a > >> > > >> > > > better explanation. > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > Regards, > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > Varun Trivedi > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > --- In > > <% 40.co\ > > m>, > >> > kulbir bance > >> > > >> > > > <kulbirbance@> wrote: > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > Varun ji, > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > how does drinking diluted water helps in saturn+moon > >> > > >> > > > > combination. > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > Regards. > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > Kulbir > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > On 2/9/09, varun_trvd varun_trvd@ wrote: > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > Dear Kulbir bhai, > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > You are right that abstaining is desirable. Addiction > >> > to > >> > > >> > alcohol is > >> > > >> > > > > > likely to turn Saturn malefic. > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > But intake of the karak objects of Saturn, liquor for > >> > > >> > example, in > >> > > >> > > > > > moderation and as a medicine by way of an upaya would > >> > > > help. > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > We interpret these two apparently contradictory > >> > > > statements > >> > > >> > in terms > >> > > >> > > > of > >> > > >> > > > > > Saturn turned malefic and Saturn got weakened. > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > The Lal Kitab takes Saturn as the karak of jism ki > >> > sehat > >> > > > and > >> > > >> > says : > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > Sehat jism ho jab kabhi manda , saanp shafa khud deta > >> > > > ho†[ > >> > > >> > > > 1952 > >> > > >> > > > > > urdu ed ; page 605 ] > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > Therefore when the Saturn gets weak indicated through > >> > the > >> > > >> > health > >> > > >> > > > loss, > >> > > >> > > > > > then it can be energized through the karaks of the > >> > Saturn > >> > > >> > itself > >> > > >> > > > when > >> > > >> > > > > > used as upaya and in moderation. > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > But addiction for the same can turn Saturn into a > >> > > > malefic; > >> > > >> > because > >> > > >> > > > in > >> > > >> > > > > > the case of addiction liquor is not taken as an > > upaya. > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > Regards, > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > Varun Trivedi > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > --- In > > <% 40.co\ > > m>, > >> > kulbir > >> > bance > >> > > >> > > > > > kulbirbance@ wrote: > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> Varun ji, > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> saturn 4, 1952, pt. 2 says that drinking will effect > >> > > > health > >> > > >> > > > > >> adversaly. Pt 9 prescribes it as a remedy/medicine > >> > for > >> > > >> > health > >> > > >> > > > > >> problems. Is the condition listed in pt.2 applicable > >> > > > only > >> > > >> > when mars > >> > > >> > > > in > >> > > >> > > > > >> no.5 or it implies that the native should use > >> > alchohol > >> > > > only > >> > > >> > when > >> > > >> > > > > >> health problem crops up. If there is no ill health > >> > it is > >> > > >> > good to > >> > > >> > > > > >> abstain. > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> Kulbir > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> -- > >> > > >> > > > > >> Sent from my mobile device > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > -- > >> > > >> > > > > Sent from my mobile device > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > -- > >> > > Sent from my mobile device > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > -- > Sent from my mobile device > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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