LK discussion group Analyzing a Horoscope : Part One

[Guest guest]

Varun ji,

you have all the means at yur disposal;if not a software at least u can show a simlified way to fill this form; a person with your,pt bhooshanpriyaji or shukla ji's intellect can find it a simple form which could be filled manually by amatures but to people like me,it is too much hotch potch.please give it a thought.

kulbir

On 1/22/09, varun_trvd <varun_trvd wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Kulbir bhai,The matter of the 1940 edition from page 277 to 284 is in the form of blanks which can be filled out like a computer print out.This format is an excellent example for any one who might be

interested in writing a software for Lal Kitab kundali. If the software could incorporate all the information contained in these forms , it would just be fantastic.Have a nice dayVarun Trivedi

, kulbir bance <kulbirbance wrote:

>> Varun ji,> > the form extends to page 283 and the information on these 8> pages is very different from traditionally printed patrikas. Kindly> crosscheck.

> > Regards> > kulbir> > > > >

> On 1/21/09, varun_trvd <varun_trvd wrote:> > Dear Kulbir Bhai,> >> > The form is for keeping a birth record in simple every day

language> > as against the traditional Janma Patrika which is mostly in sanskrit> > even today.> >> > Since these days the astrologers use computer software where the> > birth record is entered and retained slightly differently.

Therefore> > it may not be fare to ask them to keep the birth record as per this> > form.> >> > Even those who are using traditional Janma Patrika format, they also> > get the printed blank Janma Patrika from the market and fill up

the> > relevent information in the blanks provided.> >> > I believe Pt Roopchand ji might have been using this format to keep> > record of those who consulted him.> >

> > With regards,> >> > Varun Trivedi> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > , kulbir bance

> > <kulbirbance@> wrote:> >>> >> Sorry again gurubhai, it is page 277 of Armaan 1940. Kulbir> >>> >> On 1/21/09, kulbir bance <kulbirbance@> wrote:

> >> > Sorry varun bhaiji it is page 277 of farmaam 1940. Got the message> >> > loud and clear. I will recheck every message before posting in> > future.> >> > Sorry kulbir

> >> >> >> > On 1/21/09, varun_trvd <varun_trvd@> wrote:> >> >> Dear Kulbir Bhai,> >> >>> >> >> There seems to be a mistake in quoting the page number. There

is> > no> >> >> form on page 277 of any of the Lal Kitab editions specially in> > the> >> >> Farman [ 1939 ed]> >> >>> >> >> Could you please check it again and let us know the correct

page> >> >> number and which form you are talking about and the edition.> >> >>> >> >> With regards,> >> >>> >> >> Varun Trivedi

> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>

> >> >> , kulbir bance> >> >> <kulbirbance@> wrote:

> >> >>>> >> >>> Respected pt ji;> >> >>> it would be a precious gift for the group if u could add to> > this> >> >> topic the

> >> >>> simplified, modified and practical form of the form given on the> >> >> page 277 of> >> >>> the Farmaan. i know you have precious little time to spare

but> > at> >> >> the> >> >>> momment i can request you only as being capable or atleast> > capable> >> >> of trying> >> >>> it out.

> >> >>> regards> >> >>> kulbir> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>> On 1/20/09, <@> wrote:

> >> >>> >> >> >>> > Dear Members,> >> >>> >> >> >>> > Horoscope : How to study it> >> >>> >> >> >>> >

> >> >>> >> >> >>> > Step one :> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >

> >> >>> >> >> >>> > Casting a horoscope is the first step. You need three inputs> >> >> which should> >> >>> > be as accurate as possible i.e. date of birth, time of

birth> > and> >> >> the place> >> >>> > of birth. The accuracy of the horoscope will depend on these> >> >> three inputs.> >> >>> > Entire mathematical data of the horoscope which might run

> > into a> >> >> hundred> >> >>> > pages at times will be generated from these three pieces of> >> >> information.> >> >>> >

> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > As one has to be very accurate about the birth data, one has> > to> >> >> be equally

> >> >>> > careful about choosing the most exhaustive and accurate> > software> >> >> [ based on> >> >>> > classical texts ] to cast the horoscope. The best horoscope

> >> >> software ever> >> >>> > written is Jagannath Hora version 7.32 [ of Jauary 14, 2009]> >> >> and is> >> >>> > free to download. The software can be downloaded from:

> >> >>> >> >> >>> > http://www.vedicastrologer.org/jh/

> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > Next you have to choose the ayanansha. Most of the astrologers> >> >> choose

> >> >>> > Lahiri ayanansha which is also known as Ketkar’s Chitra-> > paksheeya> >> >>> > ayanansha. Some people use Raman’s Ayanansha, still some use a

> >> >> modified> >> >>> > version of their own based on their own experience. Ayanansha> >> >> choice is very> >> >>> > important because it could change the longitude of the

Lagna> > and> >> >> the planets> >> >>> > which might get magnified when you come to the divisional> > charts> >> >> etc. The> >> >>> > choice of Ayanansha will change the Vinsottari dasha

timings> >> >> also. Therefore> >> >>> > one has to be careful as to which ayanansha he wants to stick> > to.> >> >> Later> >> >>> > through experience you might evolve your own modified

> > ayanansha.> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > Casting a horoscope is a common drill for all paddhatis of

> >> >> astrology, be it> >> >>> > traditional astrology, Lal Kitab or Krishnamurthy or any other> >> >> paddhati.> >> >>> >> >> >>> >

> >> >>> >> >> >>> > Step Two :> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > Janma Kundali cast as above will be based on the ‘rasi’ or

> > zodiac> >> >> sign,> >> >>> > where the rising sign or the Ascendant will be marked with a> >> >> number> >> >>> > signifying the zodiac sign or the ‘rasi’.

> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > Since the Lal Kitab paddhati is based on ‘Khana’ or ‘House’> >> >>> > or

> >> >>> > ‘Bhava’ and not on Rasi or ‘sign’ therefore the Janma> >> >>> > Kundali> >> >>> > has> >> >> to> >> >>> > be further converted into the Bhava Kundali or what is

> > commonly> >> >> known as> >> >>> > Chalit Kundali. Lal Kitab calls it that the Rasi numbers be> >> >> erased and the> >> >>> > lagna be marked as house # 1; and the rest of the houses be

> > marked> >> >>> > accordingly in an astrological sequence. Here again you have> > to> >> >> choose> >> >>> > whether you want to go by the method of equal house system

or> > the> >> >> unequal> >> >>> > house system. There are followers of both the methods. I> > follow> >> >> the> >> >>> > traditional equal house system.

> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > *There is a controversy between Lal Kitab followers whether> > the> >> >> Bhava

> >> >>> > Kundali be used or the Rasi kundali be used. I have the> >> >> following reasons> >> >>> > why I prefer to use the Bhava Kundali and not the Rasi

> > Kundali.*> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > The first thing to remember is that the Lal Kitab is a

part of> >> >> the Vedic> >> >>> > tradition in Indian astrology. It is not a book of the air> >> >> advocating a> >> >>> > different system as some people would like us to believe.

The> >> >> book is, at> >> >>> > most places, an extension of vedic concepts.> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >

> >> >>> > Indian systems of astrology work on various forms of> > astronomical> >> >> data.> >> >>> > Some are entirely based on Rasi , some on Bhav , some on

> >> >> Nakshatra , some> >> >>> > on Panchang { 5 parameters } and yet some others on the> >> >> combinations of> >> >>> > these.> >> >>> >

> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > Lal Kitab states, “rasi chhor nakshatra bhulaya , na hi koi> >> >> panchang> >> >>> > liya�� . This statement doesn’t mean that Pt. Roopchand ji

> >> >>> > didn’t> >> >>> > follow any of the known forms, or that he created his own> > form of> >> >>> > astronomical data to work upon. All it means is that he did

> > not> >> >> want to> >> >>> > complicate astrology and wanted it to stay simple.> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >

> >> >>> > [incidentally, Lal Kitab uses Nakshatra too, on page 1131 of> > 1952> >> >> ed it> >> >>> > says ‘ shuroo se aakheer kul ka kul pukh nakshatra mein

> > banaya hua> >> >>> > makaan … ‘ ]> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > If Pt. Roopchand ji eliminated the parameters listed above,

> > then> >> >> what was> >> >>> > left there to go by?> >> >>> >> >> >>> > Obviously the Bhav system. Lal Kitab calls it Khana {

> > house }.> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > *The first question asked is, “Why is bhav spashtha step

> > necessary> >> >>> > before analyzing a horoscope?�� *> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > Bhava is a sanskrit name for house. Bhava means

> >> >> mood/attitude/feeling(like> >> >>> > bhava-bhakti) and the planets in houses shows attitude we have> >> >> towards> >> >>> > particular area of life which can come from internal or

> > external> >> >> factors.> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > Bhav spashtha is a mathematical technique and like all

> > mathematic> >> >>> > techniques is not system specific. It can be used in any> > system of> >> >>> > astrology. You would be aware that astrology has a very

well> >> >> developed> >> >>> > mathematics. Just recapitulating briefly, Bhav spashtha is the> >> >> only> >> >>> > mathematical process or technique to distinguish between

> > births> >> >> during one> >> >>> > lagna period of about two hours. The Rasi chart for all those> >> >> born during> >> >>> > that lagna {two hours } will be identical but will not have

> >> >> identical> >> >>> > destinies. Therefore, logically they should have different> >> >> planetary> >> >>> > placements. Bhav spasht alone can bring out the difference

in> >> >> placements.> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > *The next question, often asked, is “If Pt. Roopchand ji

> >> >> intended the> >> >>> > system to be based on Bhav { khana }, then why didn’t he> >> >> explicitly> >> >>> > instruct the readers in the book that they should first

apply> >> >> the rule of> >> >>> > bhav spashtha before analyzing the horoscope.?�� *> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >

> >> >>> > The answer is simple: He didn’t have to state some thing> > which was> >> >>> > obvious as a tradition.> >> >>> >> >> >>> > Traditionally the entire astrology learning in India had

been> >> >> divided into> >> >>> > sections like ‘ganit khand’ , ‘phalit khand’,> >> >>> > ‘prashna> >> >>> > khand’ , ‘mahurt khand’ , ‘samhita khand’, ‘varsh phal

> >> >>> > khand’> >> >>> > etc ; just to name a few. Therefore learning the mathematics> > of> >> >> Indian> >> >>> > astrology was the first step for all aspirants. There was

no> >> >> escape from it.> >> >>> > It included working out the ascendant, longitudes of the> > planets,> >> >> strength> >> >>> > of the houses and planets, various dasha systems,

ashatkvarg> > etc.> >> >> Now that> >> >>> > the computer soft wares do all these calculations, most of the> >> >> astrologers> >> >>> > are not even aware of what it is all about let alone how to

> > work> >> >> out all> >> >>> > these necessary components of study. Remember all this had to> > be> >> >> generated> >> >>> > from three bits of information; date of birth, time of

birth> > and> >> >> the place> >> >>> > of birth.> >> >>> >> >> >>> > Most of us who were introduced to astrology some 30 years

ago> > had> >> >> to learn> >> >>> > all these skills and had to work it out manually.> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >

> >> >>> > No classic book on astrology ever instructs a learner on what> >> >> mathematical> >> >>> > steps he is supposed to take before a horoscope is ready

to be> >> >> studied. No> >> >>> > horoscope would be ready to be studied unless all the above> >> >> information has> >> >>> > already been worked out.

> >> >>> >> >> >>> > Then why expect Pt. Roopchand ji to specifically ask something> >> >> which was> >> >>> > obviously essential and traditionally done.

> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > Lal Kitab was not written for the beginners. The Book was> > meant> >> >> for those

> >> >>> > who were already familiar with and well versed in traditional> >> >> astrology. The> >> >>> > book is so difficult that even people like us find it

> > difficult to> >> >>> > understand the nuances; although some of us had devoted over> > 20> >> >> years into> >> >>> > Vedic system before being acquainted to the Lal Kitab ; and

> >> >> another 10 years> >> >>> > into the Lal Kitab.> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > The most significant contribution of the Lal Kitab has

been> > that> >> >> it> >> >>> > introduced to the then astrologers the ‘samadhan’ aspect of> >> >> astrology;> >> >>> > the solution aspect of various problems through simple folk

> >> >> remedies. It> >> >>> > assumes that the astrologers would already be familiar with> > the> >> >> mathematical> >> >>> > techniques and would apply them before analyzing a

horoscope.> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > Now coming to the Lal Kitab , there is absolutely> >> >> nothing ‘unique’ or

> >> >>> > unusual to use the Bhav-spashtha technique for an astrological> >> >> system which> >> >>> > is exclusively based on the Bhav { or khana as it calls }

as> >> >> against the> >> >>> > Rasi . Had the book taken both Bhav and Rasi as synonymous,> > then> >> >> there would> >> >>> > have been no need to erase the Rasi and number the houses

all> >> >> over again.> >> >>> > This is done to emphasize the fact that the houses or Bhav> >> >> {khana } should> >> >>> > be considered for delineation and not the Rasi. Now, how

would> >> >> any one> >> >>> > consider a Bhav or khana without knowing the boundaries of> > it? The> >> >>> > boundaries of a Bhav or khana can only be known through the

> > Bhav-> >> >> spashtha.> >> >>> > Hence there is a need to incorporate this step.> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >

> >> >>> > I use bhav spashtha technique to ascertain the boundaries of a> >> >> bhav for> >> >>> > every horoscope I analyze.> >> >>> >

> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > Step Three :> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >

> >> >>> > *Teve ki Durusti :*> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > Every paddhati of Jyotish needs doing this exercise at

times.> >> >> There is an> >> >>> > entire procedure of finding the correct lagna in the> > traditional> >> >> astrology> >> >>> > known as nashta-jatak.

> >> >>> >> >> >>> > Apart from nashta-jatak, people use sudarshan chakra method> > for> >> >> it where> >> >>> > the lagna, surya lagna and the Chandra lagna are studied

> >> >> collectively and> >> >>> > also separately. The KP paddhati has developed the chart> >> >> rectification> >> >>> > into a very fine art. We all know that the Naadi paddhati

> > uses a> >> >> thumb> >> >>> > impression to cast the entire horoscope with absolute> > accuracy.> >> >> Like other> >> >>> > paddhatis, Lal Kitab also has talked about the

rectification/> >> >> verification> >> >>> > though not in as much a rigorous form> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >

> >> >>> > It is to be done in these extraneous situations:> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > *[ A ] When the exact time of birth is not known.*

> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > Suppose a native approaches an astrologer who has a vague idea> >> >> that he was

> >> >>> > born before noon some time, of course he knows the date of> > birth> >> >> and the> >> >>> > place of birth.> >> >>> >

> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > In this situation the astrologer will have to prepare at least> >> >> three> >> >>> > horoscopes for him with three different Lagna. Since the

> > birth is> >> >> prior to> >> >>> > the noon, the three horoscopes will have to be cast with the> > sun> >> >> in the 10> >> >>> > th, 11th and the 12th. The position of the Sun will

> >> >>> >> >> >>> > determine the Lagna.> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > The next step will be to tally some of the major events of

the> >> >> native’s> >> >>> > life based on the planetary positions in all the three> >> >> horoscopes. This> >> >>> > is what the Lal Kitab calls Lagna ko teen bar hila kar

> > dekhna,> >> >> shaking> >> >>> > the lagna thrice.> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > Suppose in a horoscope, the Jupiter is placed in the 8th

> > house> >> >> and the> >> >>> > Mars in the 5th house. The questions can be asked based on the> >> >> results of> >> >>> > these two planets. This is known as verifying the horoscope

> > with> >> >> the help of> >> >>> > Nishaniyan [ symptoms] in the context of the Lal Kitab.> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >

> >> >>> > For Mars in the 5th house the questions can be :> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > [ a ] Was any of your elders [ ancestors ] in the family

doing> >> >> sahukara ,> >> >>> > lending money etc.> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > [ b ] Was or is some one in your family associated with

> >> >> medicines, a doctor> >> >>> > or a chemist.> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > [ c ] Was there a neem tree either in the compound of the

> > house> >> >> you were> >> >>> > born, or near that.> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > Similarly verification questions can be asked for the

Jupiter> > in> >> >> the 8thhouse:> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > [ a ] Does some one in your family has or had breathing

> > problems ?> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > [ b ] If not, does or did your father-in-law have this> > problem?

> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > [ c ] Was your grandfather alive till you were 8 years old,> > if> >> >> so, did he

> >> >>> > live to be 80 or more?> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > If most of the answers are affirmative, then you know this

is> > the> >> >> horoscope> >> >>> > of the native. If the answers are in the negative, then take> > up> >> >> the next> >> >>> > horoscope and ask about the symptoms indicated by the

planets> > in> >> >> that> >> >>> > horoscope. Keep on doing it till you strike the correct> >> >> horoscope. This> >> >>> > exercise needs both the time and the patience.

> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > These symptoms or nishaniyan can be collected and a list made> > for

> >> >> each> >> >>> > planet in each house while reading the Lal Kitab or any other> >> >> classics on> >> >>> > astrology. The symptoms given in the Lal Kitab and other

> > classics> >> >> of Vedic> >> >>> > astrology would be similar most of the time. It is always> >> >> advisable to> >> >>> > collect these symptoms from as many classics as possible.

> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > Just a word of warning, do not go by the symptoms given in> > cheap> >> >> books on

> >> >>> > astrology sold on the pavements; stick to the classics only.> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > *[ B ] When the native doesn’t know even the date of birth,

> > let> >> >> alone> >> >>> > the time of birth. *> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > Such horoscopes have to be cast with the help of the

> > palmistry [> >> >> samudrik> >> >>> > sashtra ]. There is an elaborate procedure laid down in the> > Lal> >> >> Kitab [ Arun> >> >>> > Sanhita 1952, page 58 ]. Through out the Lal Kitab there

has> > been> >> >> given> >> >>> > the companion kyafa of the palm for each planet in a house. A> >> >> horoscope thus> >> >>> > cast is verified through symptoms as in the example above.

> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > At times a cross check is also made through the help of the> >> >> ancestral home.

> >> >>> > This is known as *makan ki madad se durusti* [ verification> >> >> through the> >> >>> > help of ancestral home ]. You can read the details in Arun

> >> >> sanhita 1952> >> >>> > edition page 64.> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > This is a difficult procedure because not many astrologers,

> >> >> including me,> >> >>> > are proficient in the art of palm reading.> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >

> >> >>> > *Anyway, the above verification is not required most of the> > time> >> >> because> >> >>> > all those who consult an astrologer come up with accurate

> > time of> >> >> birth and> >> >>> > other details.*> >> >>> >> >> >>> > To be continued :> >> >>> >

> >> >>> > *Next : *> >> >>> >> >> >>> > Step four: Identifying the planet/s causing problem/s> >> >>> >> >> >>> > Step five : Devising upaya

> >> >>> >> >> >>> > God bless you,> >> >>> >> >> >>> > *Bhooshan Priya*> >> >>> >> >> >>> >

> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >

> >>> >> >> >>