LK discussion group Re:Devising the form of an upaya / Pt. Umesh Sharma ji

[Guest guest]

Dear Varun Ji,Your conception is[1] " Under the column uska dushman grah for moon, no planet is mentioned as an enemy. It says 'ketu se grahan rahu se madhyam' " and[2] " The moon doesn't consider any planet as its enemy. But Mercury and

Venus both consider the moon as their enemy. Since both the planets consider moon as the enemy, they are likely to adversely affect the moon. " and[3] " There is a misprint. The line should read that shukra dushmani karata hai chandra se, similarly budh dushmani karta hai chandra se. "

===============================================First of all your this conception gives signal that you are trying to erase the very entity of the book just to satisfy your logics. I dont know your perception of defining an enemy. As per your logic, A planet which eliminates the Moon by eclipsing it and destroy its signification may be the friend of moon & Moon which is enemy of ketu may not consider Ketu as its enemy even if it is written in the enemy column opposite moon. In your words Moon is written in the same column opposite ketu then ketu is not considering the moon as it enemy. Mars is written in the same column oppsite rahu therefore Rahu does not consider mars as its enemy. In my view, It is your wrong perception .

Look what have you written in [3]. You have declared that the whole column no 4 of Page 31 is wrong and the writer had writtem this just to befool the readers.To declare the contents of book as wrong to Justify yours own misunderstanding , is not called scientific approach. You have put a question mark on whole theory of the book.

Above is an astonishing part of your strategy/approach. The group must keep ourself to the contents of the book and do research on it. I know your group is doing research on the book but not much has been talked about the grammer portion and houses itself in the research archives. More emphasis is given on remedies and more discussions are on remedies resulting forced logics are being given and habit has been developed to declare the contents of the book wrong whereever the mind failed to find suitable answer.

I totally reject and oppose your this strategy. YoursShiv Dev KalsiOn Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 10:47 PM, varun_trvd <varun_trvd wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Very respected Kalsi ji,

 

Misinterpreting what?

 

Relationship between the Lal Kitab and the traditional astrology or

the planets the moon considers as its enemies.

 

For the first it is a rational,calculated , well thoughtout and

planned stand we have taken. We do not care what others think about

our stand.

 

For the second, I have quoted the book. We interpret it as rahu and

ketu might have hostile attitude towards the moon but the moon

doesn't have the attitude of hostility towards them.

 

You could interpret it differently if you like. We do not have to

necessarily abide by your interpretation.

 

With respect and naman,

 

Varun Trivedi

 

, " Shivdev Kalsi "

<shivdev.kalsi wrote:

>

> Dear Varun Ji,

>

> It is really very astonishing.I could not expect this type of

> interpretion from you.

>

> Yours

>

> Shiv Dev Kalsi

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> On 6/25/08, varun_trvd <varun_trvd wrote:

> >

> > Very respected Kalsi ji,

> >

> > We have publically declared through the preface of this group

that

> > we do not consider the Lal Kitab as different from traditional

vedic

> > astrology. To us the Lal Kitab is a paddhati of traditional vedic

> > astrology, it is a sub system of traditional vedic astrology. We

do

> > not accept the Lal Kitab as a different system.

> >

> > Therefore we do not accept a term or a statement like ' mixing

Lal

> > Kitab with vedic astrology'

> >

> > Please go to page # 31 of 1952 urdu ed and see the table given

for

> > friends and enemies of the planets.

> >

> > Under the column uska dushman grah for moon, no planet is

mentioned as an

> > enemy. It says 'ketu se grahan rahu se madhyam'

> >

> > Respect and naman,

> >

> > Varun Trivedi

> >

> > <%

40>,

> > " Shivdev Kalsi "

> > <shivdev.kalsi@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Varun Ji,

> > > You are mixing traditional or so termed Vedic Astrology rules

in

> > Lalkitab.

> > > May you elaborate little on you line

> > > " The moon doesn't consider any planet as its enemy " .

> > > I don't think these line exists in Lalkitab

> > > Yours

> > > Shiv Dev Kalsi

> > > On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 11:32 AM, varun_trvd <varun_trvd@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > > Aadarneeya Umesh ji,

> > > >

> > > > The moon doesn't consider any planet as its enemy. But

Mercury

> > and

> > > > Venus both consider the moon as their enemy. Since both the

> > planets

> > > > consider moon as the enemy, they are likely to adversely

affect

> > the

> > > > moon.

> > > >

> > > > With regards,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > >

> > > >

<%

40>

> > <%

> > 40>,

> > > > " Umesh Sharma "

> > > > <mudit982001@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Respected Varun ji,

> > > > > You Say,

> > > > > For sun + mars the book says :

> > > > > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho

> > > > > This is simple to explain, have a look at what

> > > > > constitutes these two planets.

> > > > > Mars = sun + mercury

> > > > > Sun = mercury + venus

> > > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury

> > > > > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore

> > > > > it is natural that this combination will not be

> > > > > conducive for moon.

> > > > > MY QUESTION IS

> > > > > 1.HAS THE VENUS IS HAVING ENIMITY WITH MOON?

> > > > > 2.HAS THE MOON IS HAVING ENEMITY WITH MERCURY?

> > > > > REGARDS AND WITH ALL RESPECT

> > > > > UMESH SHARMA

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > -- In

<%

40>

> > <%

> > 40>,

> > > > " varun_trvd "

> > > > > <varun_trvd@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Respected Umesh ji,

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My views on the issues you have raised.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > [ 1 ] Lal Kitab varshphal sarini :

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In traditional vedic Jyotish there are quite a few

> > > > > >

> > > > > > methods prevalent for working out the Varshphal

> > > > > >

> > > > > > kundali. The Lal Kitab has suggested yet another

> > > > > >

> > > > > > method. Therefore there is nothing unusual or

> > > > > >

> > > > > > surprising about the method.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The major question is what could have been the

> > > > > >

> > > > > > logic or the arithmetic applied to generate the table.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > We know that unless there was some formula the

> > > > > >

> > > > > > table could not have been generated. We do not

> > > > > >

> > > > > > know the formula as yet. But sure one day the

> > > > > >

> > > > > > formula would be known. Till such time the formula

> > > > > >

> > > > > > used is found out, let us not treat the sarini as some

> > > > > >

> > > > > > thing super natural. There is nothing mystical or

> > > > > >

> > > > > > super natural about it. It is an ordinary table; there

are

> > > > > >

> > > > > > hundreds of such tables used in the traditional astrology

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > [ 2 ] For sun + mars the book says :

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This is simple to explain, have a look at what

> > > > > >

> > > > > > constitutes these two planets.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Mars = sun + mercury

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sun = mercury + venus

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury

> > > > > >

> > > > > > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore

> > > > > >

> > > > > > it is natural that this combination will not be

> > > > > >

> > > > > > conducive for moon.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > [ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says :

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Ketu mande ho madad guru ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Here Jupiter is used to strengthen ketu. There is

> > > > > >

> > > > > > nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

> > > > > >

> > > > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

> > > > > >

> > > > > > strengthening another friendly planet.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > With great respect and regards,

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --- In

> > <%

40>

> > <%

> > 40>,

> > > > " Umesh Sharma "

> > > > > > <mudit982001@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Respected Gill j]==[,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > There are so many other Terms which we are not

understand.

> > As

> > > > > example

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 1. What are the logic of Varshaphal Sarani?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 2. Why Moon is week or Manda when Sun and Mars are

combind?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 3. When Ketu in 3rd than why we do upay of Jupiter?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So many other questions.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > because, i am a practioner astrologer and from last 15

yrs

> > of

> > > > my

> > > > > > > astrological life i use these terms as it is and get

> > success.

> > > > So

> > > > > i

> > > > > > have

> > > > > > > no doubt. I think one bigger difference in you and me

that

> > you

> > > > > are not

> > > > > > a

> > > > > > > professional astrologer but I am. I think Astrology is

your

> > > > > Hobby but

> > > > > > > in my case it is my " Bread & Butter " so I have " PURAN

> > SHARDHA "

> > > > on

> > > > > this

> > > > > > > book. I Discuss and understand the theory of Lal-Kitab

from

> > > > other

> > > > > > > scholars,. As You, Sh. Vareun Trivedi ji, Sh. Bhooshan

> > Priya

> > > > > ji,, Sh.

> > > > > > > Kulbeer ji, Sh. Yograj Prabhakar ji, Sh. Lalkitabi ji,

Sh.

> > > > > > > L.K.Vashishath ji, Late Sh. B.R.Gupta ( My Father-in-

Law).

> > No

> > > > > doubt,

> > > > > > > you are doing the good job in favour of Lal-kitab,

keep it

> > up.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Umesh Sharma

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --- In

> > <%

40>

> > <%

> > 40>,

> > > > " gill_hs2005 "

> > > > > > > gill_hs2005@ wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Sir umesh ji,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Agar budh itna taqatvar hai ki dono rahu aur ketu ko

apne

> > > > > dayre mein

> > > > > > > > bandh kar rakh sakta hai, to rahu manda hone par

budh par

> > > > > parbhav

> > > > > > > > kaise padega? Jo taqat dono ko bandh kar rakh sakti

hai

> > vah

> > > > > taqat

> > > > > > > > rahu aur ketu dono se badi huyee ki nahi. Apki baat

se

> > yeh

> > > > > samajh

> > > > > > > > mein aya ki rahu aur ketu budh ke adheen hain na ki

budh

> > in

> > > > > dono ke.

> > > > > > > > Jab budh rahu ketu ke adheen hi nahin hai to rahu ya

> > ketu ke

> > > > > mande

> > > > > > > > hone ka asar budh par kaise ho sakta hai, yeh baat

samajh

> > > > mein

> > > > > nahi

> > > > > > > > ayee.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Sincerely,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > HS Gill

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --- In

> > <%

40>

> > <%

> > 40>,

> > > > " Umesh Sharma "

> > > > > > > > mudit982001@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Respected Gill ji,

> > > > > > > > > " Rahu-Ketu jo Pap gine hain, Grah sab hi ko

ghumate

> > hain ,

> > > > > > > > > Guru Akela Do ko chalave, ghumtey par vo budh main

> > hain "

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Umesh Sharma

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --- In

> > <%

40>

> > <%

> > 40>,

> > > > " gill_hs2005 "

> > > > > > > > > <gill_hs2005@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Sir Umesh Sharma ji,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > 1. page no 386 Moon in 4th house

> > > > > > > > > > > Manda asar

> > > > > > > > > > > Note #3. Sar Fat jaye, Rahu ka manda asar Budh

(

> > Budh

> > > > ki

> > > > > > > > > > Aashiyaan,

> > > > > > > > > > > Karobaar ya Rishtedaar__ Mutlka budh) par hoga

{

> > Rahu

> > > > > Khana #

> > > > > > > > 10}

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Agar chander 4 hai aur rahu 10 mein to budh par

gaaz

> > > > kyon

> > > > > giri ?

> > > > > > > > > > budh ka talluk na to khana 4 se hai aur nahi

khana 10

> > > > se.

> > > > > budh

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > dono gharon mein bhi nahi hai to phir budh ki

ashiya,

> > > > > karobar ya

> > > > > > > > > > rishtedar par bura asar kaise padega?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Sincerely,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > HS Gill

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > <%

40>

> > <%

> > 40>,

> > > > " Umesh

> > > > Sharma "

> > > > > > > > > > mudit982001@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Respected Sir,

> > > > > > > > > > > Now there are two Statements in this regards

> > > > > > > > > > > 1. page no 386 Moon in 4th house

> > > > > > > > > > > Manda asar

> > > > > > > > > > > Note #3. Sar Fat jaye, Rahu ka manda asar Budh

(

> > Budh

> > > > ki

> > > > > > > > > > Aashiyaan,

> > > > > > > > > > > Karobaar ya Rishtedaar__ Mutlka budh) par hoga

{

> > Rahu

> > > > > Khana #

> > > > > > > > 10}

> > > > > > > > > > > 2. RAHU in house # 10 :

> > > > > > > > > > > 1952 urdu ed : Page 680 ; note # 9

> > > > > > > > > > > Khyali dimagi dhuan bayas pareshani †"

dimagh

> > > > > > > > > > > phate ya sar kate ya nazar gum ho jave- aur

dhan

> > > > > > > > > > > daulat par bijli ki tarah manda asar hoga

> > > > > > > > > > > [ Chandra khana # 4 ]

> > > > > > > > > > > HOW TO DECIDE WHICH STATEMENT IS APPLICABLE?

> > > > > > > > > > > Bhai yograj ji ki baat bilkul sahi hey par mere

> > hisab

> > > > se

> > > > > Grah

> > > > > > > > ka

> > > > > > > > > > Khana

> > > > > > > > > > > main akele bethe hone par honi chahiye. Yahan

par

> > to

> > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > Chandar

> > > > > > > > > > se

> > > > > > > > > > > drishat ho raha hey. May be i wrong.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > With

> > > > > > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Umesh Sharma

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > #1. Moon in 4th and rahu in 10th

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > <%

40>

> > <%

> > 40>,

> > > > " varun_trvd "

> > > > > > > > > > > <varun_trvd@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Umesh ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > RAHU in house # 10 :

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > 1952 urdu ed : Page 680 ; note # 9

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Khyali dimagi dhuan bayas pareshani †"

dimagh

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > phate ya sar kate ya nazar gum ho jave- aur

dhan

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > daulat par bijli ki tarah manda asar hoga

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > [ Chandra khana # 4 ]

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > While answering to Wandahl ji, the context he

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > had asked me to explain from was Rahu in the

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. Therefore I had translated the

above

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > lines from the book into English for my

answer.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > With great respect and regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > <%

40>

> > <%

> > 40>,

> > > > " Umesh

> > > > > Sharma "

> > > > > > > > > > > > mudit982001@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Varun ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > If Moon in 4th and Rahu in 10th the result

is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > " Sir Fat Jaye, Rahu ka bura asar Budh (

Budh

> > ki

> > > > > > Aashiayan,

> > > > > > > > > > Karobaar

> > > > > > > > > > > > ya

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Rishtedar mutlka Budh ) par hoga. " page no

388

> > > > > edi.1952,

> > > > > > > > > > chandrma

> > > > > > > > > > > > Khana

> > > > > > > > > > > > > no. 4, Mandi halat Term no. 3.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Kyonki Rahu jab jab Chandrma se Drishat

hoga ya

> > > > > mushtrka

> > > > > > > > hoga

> > > > > > > > > > vah

> > > > > > > > > > > Budh

> > > > > > > > > > > > > ko khrab karega.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Gustakhi ki Kashma chahta hoon.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Umesh Sharma

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > > <%

40>

> > <%

> > 40>,

> > > > " varun_trvd "

> > > > > > > > > > > > > varun_trvd@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Wandahl saheb,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks for your response. It is a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > pleasure reading your views.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have asked ;

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th it is mentioned that Upay

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of Mars would be beneficial if there

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > is also Moon in the 4th house. Do you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > know the reason for this? I think it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > is difficult to grasp.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I understand basically it means that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > in case moon is in the 4th while the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is in the 10th then it would result

in:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Foggy and unrealistic thoughts, brain

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > splitting agony, weak eyes, diminished

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wealth.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you notice the areas most

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > affected are the karaks of the moon and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the reason being that Rahu will have an

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > aspect on the moon.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If that happens then the Mars upaya

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > should be done

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > with respect and regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > <%

40>

> > <%

> > 40>,

> > > > " Finn

> > > > > > > > Wandahl "

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > finn.wandahl@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Mr. Varun Trivedi,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for this very inspirating

> > article on

> > > > > Upaya,

> > > > > > > > > > which I

> > > > > > > > > > > like

> > > > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > say a few things about. However, I

have a

> > > > rather

> > > > > > > > liberal

> > > > > > > > > > > approach

> > > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Upaya as I consider the Upayas

mentioned in

> > > > Lal

> > > > > Kitab

> > > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > > > > merely

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suggestions and guidelines meant to

> > stimulate

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > intuition,

> > > > > > > > > > > > empathy

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and discriminative power of the

astrologer

> > to

> > > > > make him

> > > > > > > > > > create

> > > > > > > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > > > > > own

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > remedies depending upon the

circumstances,

> > > > time

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > place

> > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > each

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > individual client.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have given Saturn in the 7th house

as

> > an

> > > > > example.

> > > > > > > > But

> > > > > > > > > > > normally

> > > > > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would perhaps not be much concerned

about

> > > > that.

> > > > > After

> > > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > > > it is

> > > > > > > > > > > > Ucha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (exalted) and even if the 1st house was

> > empty

> > > > > thus

> > > > > > > > making

> > > > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sleeping or dormant it would not cause

too

> > > > much

> > > > > alarm

> > > > > > > > > > except

> > > > > > > > > > > > perhaps

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if Ketu was ahead of Saturn thereby

> > turning it

> > > > > > > > malefic. In

> > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > case

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > might even consider Ketu the problem,

since

> > > > Ketu

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > what

> > > > > > > > > > made

> > > > > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn Malefic.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then you say something very interesting

> > about

> > > > > Rahu in

> > > > > > > > > > kendras

> > > > > > > > > > > > where

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the planet that gets exalted in the

house

> > > > > occupied by

> > > > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > > > should

> > > > > > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > considered for Upay. However, regarding

> > Rahu

> > > > in

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > first,

> > > > > > > > > > it is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > alreading said in Lal Kitab that the

Sun

> > would

> > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > eclipsed, not

> > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun itself but the house occupied by

the

> > Sun.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In annual charts, however, I have often

> > had the

> > > > > > > > > > experience, that

> > > > > > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > really the Sun itself that gets

eclipsed

> > and

> > > > > destroyed

> > > > > > > > > > when Rahu

> > > > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the first rather than the house

occupied by

> > > > the

> > > > > Sun.

> > > > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > > coming

> > > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 1st house can really destroy the

rank

> > and

> > > > > position

> > > > > > > > of a

> > > > > > > > > > > > person.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, the problem with Rahu in the

1st

> > in

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > context

> > > > > > > > > > of Upay

> > > > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that the Sun is both significator of

the

> > first

> > > > > house

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > > > > > exalted

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there at the same time, and it make

little

> > > > > difference

> > > > > > > > if we

> > > > > > > > > > > > involve

> > > > > > > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in Upay for one reason or the other as

> > long as

> > > > > it is

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > same

> > > > > > > > > > > > > planet.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the

10th

> > it

> > > > is

> > > > > > > > mentioned

> > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > Upay

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of Mars would be beneficial if there is

> > also

> > > > > Moon in

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > 4th

> > > > > > > > > > > > house.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Do

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you know the reason for this? I think

it is

> > > > > difficult

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > grasp.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then if Rahu was in the 7th house,

Saturn

> > > > would

> > > > > hardly

> > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > choice for remedy even though it is

exalted

> > > > > there. I

> > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > no

> > > > > > > > > > > > doubt

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > consider Venus first and perhaps also

> > Mercury

> > > > if

> > > > > > > > daughters

> > > > > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > > > > sisters

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > were involved.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu in the 4th by itself should not

be a

> > > > > problem as

> > > > > > > > it has

> > > > > > > > > > > takes

> > > > > > > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > oath not to cause evil when alone or

with

> > the

> > > > > Moon in

> > > > > > > > 4th

> > > > > > > > > > house.

> > > > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > don't know if remedy of Jupiter could

be

> > used

> > > > in

> > > > > case

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > > > > being

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > malefic in the 4th. I think Moon or

perhaps

> > > > > Saturn

> > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > be my

> > > > > > > > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > choice in such a case.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Finn Wandahl

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > > > > >

<%

40>

> > <%

> > 40>,

> > > > " varun_trvd "

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > varun_trvd@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected members,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Devising the form of upaya:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lal Kitab 1952 urdu ed page 620 last

> > lines :

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn in the 7th house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Khand se bharkar bansari bahar

veerane

> > mein

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dabana mubarik, basharte ki

Shanishchar

> > soya

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > na ho; agar soya ho to shahad ke

bartan

> > ka

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > upaya madadgar hoga

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At the first reading it would appear

> > that if

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn is not dormant [ soya hua]

then

> > bury

> > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a barren place a flute filled with

desi

> > > > sugar [

> > > > > > > > khand ] ;

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if the Saturn is dormant then bury a

pot

> > > > > filled with

> > > > > > > > > > honey.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But it is not so. That is not the

correct

> > > > > > > > understanding

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So much so a well known Lal Kitab

scholar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > made a slip when he wrote in his

book for

> > > > > Saturn in

> > > > > > > > 7th:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kisi bartan ko shahad se bharkar

bahar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dabane ka upaya sahayak hoga

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct upaya is to establish at

> > home in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the south west corner a pot filled

with

> > > > honey.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thus the correct upaya is

establishing

> > and

> > > > not

> > > > > > > > burying.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This has already been discussed here

in

> > the

> > > > > group.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those who wish to read the logic

behind

> > > > > establishing

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can go to the archives and read.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I began by giving this example to

show

> > how

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > difficult it is to devise an upaya

and

> > more

> > > > so

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > decide the form of upaya

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In most cases, the Lal Kitab does not

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > explain the form of upaya to be

done. It

> > just

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suggests that the upaya for such-n-

such

> > > > planet

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be done e.g. mangal ka upaya madadgar

> > hoga.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This statement by itself is not very

> > > > helpful.

> > > > > It is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the Lalkitabist who has to decide the

> > form

> > > > of

> > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mangal ka upaya. He has to decide

> > whether the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karaks of mangal are to be immersed

in

> > > > flowing

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > water, or gifted at a temple or

buried

> > and

> > > > so

> > > > > on.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The upaya devised has to be correct

and

> > > > > effective.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This needs a very good understanding

of

> > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > system and a very wide experience.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me explain this with an example :

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For Rahu placed in the Kendra

houses, it

> > is

> > > > > advised

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that the upaya should be done of the

> > planet

> > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gets exalted in that house.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, if the Rahu is placed in

the

> > 1st

> > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and has been identified as malefic

then

> > > > surya

> > > > > ka

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > upaya madadgar hoga. Now what should

be

> > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > form of this surya ka upaya. Should

we

> > > > immerse

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks of the Sun in flowing

water,

> > or

> > > > > should

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we bury the karaks of the sun, or

should

> > we

> > > > > offer

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks of the sun at a temple,

or any

> > > > other

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > form of upaya to be devised.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thankfully in this case it has been

> > > > indicated

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks of the Sun should be

gifted

> > at a

> > > > > temple.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is done to strengthen the Sun so

> > that he

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > could withstand the eclipsing

ability of

> > > > Rahu.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But for the same Rahu in the 10th

house

> > the

> > > > > book

> > > > > > > > says:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > khali mandir se rahu sota, tez

swabhav

> > manda

> > > > ho

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mitra grah par keechad deta, upaya

> > mangal ka

> > > > > uttam

> > > > > > ho

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now in this case no indication has

been

> > > > given

> > > > > as to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what will be the form of mangal ka

upaya,

> > > > like

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the case of Rahu in the 1st house

> > where

> > > > > gifting

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karaks of Sun has been indicated.

Will

> > > > gifting

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > karaks

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of mangal at any temple be a correct

> > upaya?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If not, then what should be the form

of

> > the

> > > > > upaya ?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A rahu placed in the 10th can not do

any

> > > > > damage to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn but it will definitely harm

the

> > > > > > significations

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of the 10th house, be it a job or

name or

> > > > fame.

> > > > > > > > > > Therefore,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if the rahu is adjudged as malefic,

then

> > an

> > > > > upaya

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will become necessary. So what would

be

> > the

> > > > > form

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of the upaya. We know that mangal

will

> > help,

> > > > > but in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what form? It is the Lalkitabist who

has

> > to

> > > > > decide

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > form of the upaya.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the book says:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu ka manda asar teve wale par nahi

> > hoga :

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jab mangal nek ho

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this case the Rahu has to be

brought

> > under

> > > > > > control

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > such that it is not able to damage

the

> > > > > > > > significations of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 10th house. Since Mangal shubh

alone

> > can

> > > > > control

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu therefore the karak of mangal

shubh

> > has

> > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > established at home, keep at home a

> > little

> > > > > honey

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in a silver dibbi towards the west.

This

> > > > upaya

> > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > keep the belligerent Rahu under

control.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now you know the difference. In one

case

> > it

> > > > is

> > > > > > > > gifting

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks which would be an

effective

> > upaya

> > > > > where

> > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the next case it is establishing a

> > karak

> > > > > would be

> > > > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > effective upaya.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore devising upaya is a science

> > which a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lalkitabist has to learn. It comes

with

> > time

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > experience. That is why upaya

suggested

> > > > through

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ready reckoners do not work.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > --

> > > Dr. Shiv Dev Kalsi,

> > > Jyotish Rishi (AIFAS)

> > > Consultant (Vedic Astrology)

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

> Dr. Shiv Dev Kalsi,

> Jyotish Rishi (AIFAS)

> Consultant (Vedic Astrology)

>

 

 

 

 

-- Dr. Shiv Dev Kalsi,Jyotish Rishi (AIFAS)Consultant (Vedic Astrology)