Re:Devising the form of an upaya / SUN+MARS/ Hemant ji

[Guest guest]

Respected Hemant ji,

 

The concept of a scape goat is a well established fact in the Lal

Kitab. At times the ill effects of a planet are noticed in the life

of the native. While analyzing no obvious cause of those ill effects

is found. In such cases the astrologer should also have a look at

the possibility that may be the planet giving the bad results is

acting as a scapegoat for some other planet. There is no harm in

looking at the problem through all possible angles. Scapegoat

concept is one such angle which is to be applied only when no

apparent or obvious cause is found.

 

Regards,

 

Varun Trivedi

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, " heartzthief54 "

<heartzthief54 wrote:

>

> Gurujan,

>

> agar hum log jaisa ki varun jee ne kaha hai ya woh mante hain uss

> hisab se chale to kisi bhee grah ke uapy ki zarrorat nahi hai, jis

> grah ne jo bhee grah apne liye bali dene ke liye rakha hai uska hee

> ilaz karen.

>

> hemant

, " Shivdev Kalsi "

> <shivdev.kalsi@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Varun Ji,

> > Is not an funny situation created with this concept.

> > If mercury is threatened he will pass on pressure to Venus.Now

> Venus is

> > threatened he will pass on to Moon. Now Moon will transfer the

> wrath to

> > Sun, Mars & Jupiter. What sun mars & Jupiter do ,they transfer

the

> load to

> > Ketu.

> > Ultimately, Ketu will be the sufferer.

> > Then why moon will suffer.

> > In my view, it shall be treated as a rule of this combination.

> Answer will

> > come in due course of studies.

> > Yours

> > Shiv Dev Kalsi

> >

> > On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 11:46 AM, varun_trvd <varun_trvd@>

> wrote:

> >

> > > Respected Yograj ji,

> > >

> > > This is exactly what I had said. Moon can be a bali ka bakra.

> > >

> > >

> > > " Ab Budh ka khali chakkar Suraj ki madad se shukkar ko barbad

> > > > kar dega. " LK-1952, page-923).

> > >

> > > our interpretation is : Once the venus is threatened , the

Venus

> > > might pass on its musibat onto the moon because the venus has

> kept

> > > the moon as his escape goat.

> > >

> > > Pandit didn't have to mention the fact that even the moon could

> be

> > > adversely affected for the simple reason that he had faith on

the

> > > common sense of the reader.In the situation you have

enumerated,

> > > suppose there are no perceptible effects on the venus and

instead

> > > the effects are noticed on the moon, then wouldn't you infer

that

> > > here the venus has passed on his musibat to the moon.

> > >

> > > For us trying to find out logic and rationale behind the

> statements

> > > of the book is not an exercise into waham. On the contrary it

is

> an

> > > effort to establish the scientific credentials of the Lal

Kitab.

> > >

> > > May be our perceptions are different.

> > >

> > > With respect and great regards,

> > >

> > >

> > > Varun Trivedi

> > >

> > > <%

> 40>,

> > > " Yograj Prabhakar "

> > > <yr_prabhakar@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Varun Ji

> > > >

> > > > You are free to understand the situation as per your

> convenience

> > > > and understanding. But I am not convinced with the logic you

> > > > have given by using the Masnooyi technique.

> > > >

> > > > Using this technique of Masnooyi, Antar Masnooyi and

> Pratayantar

> > > > Masnooyi may look adventurous, but it must be used in the

right

> > > > context. You cannot use this thing everywhere. What each

> > > > masnooyi planet represent, how it will work and what are the

> > > > areas of their effects are clearly mentioned in Lal kitab.

> > > >

> > > > As far as the combination of Sun+Mercury+Venus is concerned.

It

> > > > is clearly mentioned that:

> > > > " Ab Budh ka khali chakkar Suraj ki madad se shukkar ko barbad

> > > > kar dega. " LK-1952, page-923).

> > > >

> > > > And Pundit ji too recommended remedy for Sun+Mer+Ven(page no.

> 925,

> > > > first 6 lines) not Chandar. Why Pundit ji did not considered

> the

> > > > Qurbani ka Bakra concept? What could be the possible reason?

> Why

> > > > Shukkar is unable to pass on the bad effects on Chandar in

this

> > > > combination? why Chandar is not at all affected?

> > > >

> > > > There maybe a few things left on readers own intelligence,

but

> we

> > > must

> > > > not forget that:

> > > > " ..... " Farzee manmaani ya Manghadat baat Veham paida karegi,

> aur

> > > > Veham ka ilaaz shayad hi kahin milta hoga. " (LK-1952, page 6,

> > > > Juz-5)

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Respectfully

> > > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > --- In

<%

> 40>,

> > > " varun_trvd "

> > > > <varun_trvd@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Respected Yograj ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > This is how we have understood the problem.

> > > > >

> > > > > May be you have a different approach which

> > > > >

> > > > > we all would love to hear about.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > If the sun gets associated with the combination

> > > > >

> > > > > of mercury and venus, it will make the combination

> > > > >

> > > > > malefic. The book says:

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Uttam barabar asar dono ka, drishti ravi na karata jo

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > [ 1952 urdu ed : page 856 line #4 ]

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Therefore if in a kundali mercury and venus are

> > > > >

> > > > > together and if they get associated with the sun in

> > > > >

> > > > > any capacity, then moon will get the brunt. Moon

> > > > >

> > > > > will be the ultimate bali ka bakara.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > {In the equation I had worked out for sun+ mars,

> > > > >

> > > > > sun itself is one of the components of that break up.}

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Whether this has been specifically mentioned in the

> > > > >

> > > > > book or not is a different matter. Most of the things

> > > > >

> > > > > have been left to the intelligence of the reader. They

> > > > >

> > > > > should use deductive logic to get at the conclusion.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > This is how we have understood it. May be you have

> > > > >

> > > > > got a different understanding. We would love to hear

> > > > >

> > > > > your views too on both these issues : Mars + sun and

> > > > >

> > > > > the moon getting affected; and mercury + venus and

> > > > >

> > > > > no mention of moon getting affected.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > With respect and regards,

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > --- In

> <%

> 40>,

> > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > > > > <yr_prabhakar@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Varun Ji

> > > > > >

> > > > > > For Sun+Mars You have said :

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Mars = sun + mercury

> > > > > > Sun = mercury + venus

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury and venus ,

> both

> > > enemies

> > > > > of the moon.Therefore it is natural that this combination

> will

> > > not be

> > > > > conducive for moon.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My question is If Mercury and Venus (as Masnooyi

> constituents)

> > > are

> > > > > responsible for making Moon weak In Sun+Mar combination,

then

> > > why the

> > > > > same condition is not applicable in Mercury+Venus

> combination in

> > > the

> > > > > chart? Why it is specially mentioned in the Sun+Mars

> combination

> > > only?

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Respectfully

> > > > > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --- On Sun, 6/22/08, varun_trvd varun_trvd@ wrote:

> > > > > > varun_trvd varun_trvd@

> > > > > > LK discussion group Re:Devising the form of an

> > > upaya / Pt.

> > > > > Umesh Sharma ji

> > > > > > To:

> <%

> 40>

> > > > > > Sunday, June 22, 2008, 10:56 PM

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Respected finn saheb,

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thank you so much for adding a new perspective to the

> > > explanation.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yes, you are right; this is the reason why taking the

help

> of

> > > > > >

> > > > > > jupiter has been suggested.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , " Finn

> Wandahl "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > <finn.wandahl@ ...> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Varun Trivedi,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >>...[ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says: " Ketu mande

ho

> > > madad

> > > > > >

> > > > > > guru

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho " . Here Jupiter is used

> to

> > > > > >

> > > > > > strengthen

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > ketu. There is nothing unusual in that. This is a very

> common

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used

for

> > > > > >

> > > > > > strengthening

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > another friendly planet...<<

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Sure, this is a sound explanation. But perhaps there is

> more

> > > to

> > > > > >

> > > > > > it. an

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > additional explanation could be that Ketu is

debilitated

> in

> > > the 3rd

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > house, and therefore Jupiter could be suggested to

> strengten

> > > Ketu,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > because Jupiter rules the 9th house (Sagittarius) where

> Ketu

> > > is

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > exalted. This way exaltation would undo debilitation,

so

> to

> > > speak.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > :-)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Finn Wandahl

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > @.

> com, " varun_trvd "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > <varun_trvd@ > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Respected Umesh ji,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > My views on the issues you have raised.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > [ 1 ] Lal Kitab varshphal sarini :

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > In traditional vedic Jyotish there are quite a few

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > methods prevalent for working out the Varshphal

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > kundali. The Lal Kitab has suggested yet another

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > method. Therefore there is nothing unusual or

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > surprising about the method.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The major question is what could have been the

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > logic or the arithmetic applied to generate the

table.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > We know that unless there was some formula the

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > table could not have been generated. We do not

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > know the formula as yet. But sure one day the

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > formula would be known. Till such time the formula

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > used is found out, let us not treat the sarini as

some

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > thing super natural. There is nothing mystical or

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > super natural about it. It is an ordinary table;

there

> are

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > hundreds of such tables used in the traditional

> astrology

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > [ 2 ] For sun + mars the book says :

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > This is simple to explain, have a look at what

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > constitutes these two planets.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Mars = sun + mercury

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Sun = mercury + venus

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > it is natural that this combination will not be

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > conducive for moon.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > [ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says :

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Ketu mande ho madad guru ki, tilak kesar ka bhala

hota

> ho

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Here Jupiter is used to strengthen ketu. There is

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used

> for

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > strengthening another friendly planet.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > With great respect and regards,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > --

> > Dr. Shiv Dev Kalsi,

> > Jyotish Rishi (AIFAS)

> > Consultant (Vedic Astrology)

> >

>