Re:Devising the form of an upaya / SUN+MARS

[Guest guest]

Respected Yograj ji,

This is how we have understood the problem.

May be you have a different approach which

we all would love to hear about.

 

If the sun gets associated with the combination

of mercury and venus, it will make the combination

malefic. The book says:

 

Uttam barabar asar dono ka, drishti ravi na karata jo

 

[ 1952 urdu ed : page 856 line #4 ]

 

Therefore if in a kundali mercury and venus are

together and if they get associated with the sun in

any capacity, then moon will get the brunt. Moon

will be the ultimate bali ka bakara.

 

{In the equation I had worked out for sun+ mars,

sun itself is one of the components of that break up.}

 

Whether this has been specifically mentioned in the

book or not is a different matter. Most of the things

have been left to the intelligence of the reader. They

should use deductive logic to get at the conclusion.

 

This is how we have understood it. May be you have

got a different understanding. We would love to hear

your views too on both these issues : Mars + sun and

the moon getting affected; and mercury + venus and

no mention of moon getting affected.

 

With respect and regards,

 

Varun Trivedi

 

 

 

 

 

 

, Yograj Prabhakar <yr_prabhakar wrote:>> Dear Varun Ji> > For Sun+Mars You have said :> > Mars = sun + mercury> Sun = mercury + venus> > If you notice this combination is all mercury and venus , both enemies of the moon.Therefore it is natural that this combination will not be conducive for moon.> > > My question is If Mercury and Venus (as Masnooyi constituents) are responsible for making Moon weak In Sun+Mar combination, then why the same condition is not applicable in Mercury+Venus combination in the chart? Why it is specially mentioned in the Sun+Mars combination only?> > > Respectfully> Yograj Prabhakar> > > --- On Sun, 6/22/08, varun_trvd varun_trvd wrote:> varun_trvd varun_trvd LK discussion group Re:Devising the form of an upaya / Pt. Umesh Sharma ji> > Sunday, June 22, 2008, 10:56 PM> > > > > > > > > > > > Respected finn saheb,> > > > Thank you so much for adding a new perspective to the explanation.> > Yes, you are right; this is the reason why taking the help of > > jupiter has been suggested.> > > > Regards,> > > > Varun Trivedi> > > > , "Finn Wandahl" > > <finn.wandahl@ ...> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Varun Trivedi,> > > > > > >>...[ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says: "Ketu mande ho madad > > guru> > > ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho". Here Jupiter is used to > > strengthen> > > ketu. There is nothing unusual in that. This is a very common> > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for > > strengthening> > > another friendly planet...<<> > > > > > > > > Sure, this is a sound explanation. But perhaps there is more to > > it. an> > > additional explanation could be that Ketu is debilitated in the 3rd> > > house, and therefore Jupiter could be suggested to strengten Ketu,> > > because Jupiter rules the 9th house (Sagittarius) where Ketu is> > > exalted. This way exaltation would undo debilitation, so to speak.> > > > > > :-)> > > > > > Finn Wandahl> > > > > > > > > , "varun_trvd"> > > <varun_trvd@ > wrote:> > > >> > > > > > > > Respected Umesh ji,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My views on the issues you have raised.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [ 1 ] Lal Kitab varshphal sarini :> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In traditional vedic Jyotish there are quite a few> > > > > > > > methods prevalent for working out the Varshphal> > > > > > > > kundali. The Lal Kitab has suggested yet another> > > > > > > > method. Therefore there is nothing unusual or> > > > > > > > surprising about the method.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The major question is what could have been the> > > > > > > > logic or the arithmetic applied to generate the table.> > > > > > > > We know that unless there was some formula the> > > > > > > > table could not have been generated. We do not> > > > > > > > know the formula as yet. But sure one day the> > > > > > > > formula would be known. Till such time the formula> > > > > > > > used is found out, let us not treat the sarini as some> > > > > > > > thing super natural. There is nothing mystical or> > > > > > > > super natural about it. It is an ordinary table; there are> > > > > > > > hundreds of such tables used in the traditional astrology> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [ 2 ] For sun + mars the book says :> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is simple to explain, have a look at what> > > > > > > > constitutes these two planets.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars = sun + mercury> > > > > > > > Sun = mercury + venus> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury> > > > > > > > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore> > > > > > > > it is natural that this combination will not be> > > > > > > > conducive for moon.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says :> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ketu mande ho madad guru ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here Jupiter is used to strengthen ketu. There is> > > > > > > > nothing unusual in that. This is a very common> > > > > > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for> > > > > > > > strengthening another friendly planet.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With great respect and regards,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi> > >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Varun Ji

 

You are free to understand the situation as per your convenience

and understanding. But I am not convinced with the logic you

have given by using the Masnooyi technique.

 

Using this technique of Masnooyi, Antar Masnooyi and Pratayantar

Masnooyi may look adventurous, but it must be used in the right

context. You cannot use this thing everywhere. What each

masnooyi planet represent, how it will work and what are the

areas of their effects are clearly mentioned in Lal kitab.

 

As far as the combination of Sun+Mercury+Venus is concerned. It

is clearly mentioned that:

" Ab Budh ka khali chakkar Suraj ki madad se shukkar ko barbad

kar dega. " LK-1952, page-923).

 

And Pundit ji too recommended remedy for Sun+Mer+Ven(page no. 925,

first 6 lines) not Chandar. Why Pundit ji did not considered the

Qurbani ka Bakra concept? What could be the possible reason? Why

Shukkar is unable to pass on the bad effects on Chandar in this

combination? why Chandar is not at all affected?

 

There maybe a few things left on readers own intelligence, but we must

not forget that:

" ..... " Farzee manmaani ya Manghadat baat Veham paida karegi, aur

Veham ka ilaaz shayad hi kahin milta hoga. " (LK-1952, page 6,

Juz-5)

 

 

Respectfully

Yograj Prabhakar

 

 

 

 

, " varun_trvd "

<varun_trvd wrote:

>

>

> Respected Yograj ji,

>

> This is how we have understood the problem.

>

> May be you have a different approach which

>

> we all would love to hear about.

>

>

>

> If the sun gets associated with the combination

>

> of mercury and venus, it will make the combination

>

> malefic. The book says:

>

>

>

> Uttam barabar asar dono ka, drishti ravi na karata jo

>

>

>

> [ 1952 urdu ed : page 856 line #4 ]

>

>

>

> Therefore if in a kundali mercury and venus are

>

> together and if they get associated with the sun in

>

> any capacity, then moon will get the brunt. Moon

>

> will be the ultimate bali ka bakara.

>

>

>

> {In the equation I had worked out for sun+ mars,

>

> sun itself is one of the components of that break up.}

>

>

>

> Whether this has been specifically mentioned in the

>

> book or not is a different matter. Most of the things

>

> have been left to the intelligence of the reader. They

>

> should use deductive logic to get at the conclusion.

>

>

>

> This is how we have understood it. May be you have

>

> got a different understanding. We would love to hear

>

> your views too on both these issues : Mars + sun and

>

> the moon getting affected; and mercury + venus and

>

> no mention of moon getting affected.

>

>

>

> With respect and regards,

>

>

>

> Varun Trivedi

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

, Yograj Prabhakar

> <yr_prabhakar@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Varun Ji

> >

> > For Sun+Mars You have said :

> >

> > Mars = sun + mercury

> > Sun = mercury + venus

> >

> > If you notice this combination is all mercury and venus , both enemies

> of the moon.Therefore it is natural that this combination will not be

> conducive for moon.

> >

> >

> > My question is If Mercury and Venus (as Masnooyi constituents) are

> responsible for making Moon weak In Sun+Mar combination, then why the

> same condition is not applicable in Mercury+Venus combination in the

> chart? Why it is specially mentioned in the Sun+Mars combination only?

> >

> >

> > Respectfully

> > Yograj Prabhakar

> >

> >

> > --- On Sun, 6/22/08, varun_trvd varun_trvd@ wrote:

> > varun_trvd varun_trvd@

> > LK discussion group Re:Devising the form of an upaya / Pt.

> Umesh Sharma ji

> >

> > Sunday, June 22, 2008, 10:56 PM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Respected finn saheb,

> >

> >

> >

> > Thank you so much for adding a new perspective to the explanation.

> >

> > Yes, you are right; this is the reason why taking the help of

> >

> > jupiter has been suggested.

> >

> >

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> >

> >

> > Varun Trivedi

> >

> >

> >

> > , " Finn Wandahl "

> >

> > <finn.wandahl@ ...> wrote:

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Dear Varun Trivedi,

> >

> > >

> >

> > > >>...[ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says: " Ketu mande ho madad

> >

> > guru

> >

> > > ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho " . Here Jupiter is used to

> >

> > strengthen

> >

> > > ketu. There is nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

> >

> > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

> >

> > strengthening

> >

> > > another friendly planet...<<

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Sure, this is a sound explanation. But perhaps there is more to

> >

> > it. an

> >

> > > additional explanation could be that Ketu is debilitated in the 3rd

> >

> > > house, and therefore Jupiter could be suggested to strengten Ketu,

> >

> > > because Jupiter rules the 9th house (Sagittarius) where Ketu is

> >

> > > exalted. This way exaltation would undo debilitation, so to speak.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > :-)

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Finn Wandahl

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > , " varun_trvd "

> >

> > > <varun_trvd@ > wrote:

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > Respected Umesh ji,

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > My views on the issues you have raised.

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > [ 1 ] Lal Kitab varshphal sarini :

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > In traditional vedic Jyotish there are quite a few

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > methods prevalent for working out the Varshphal

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > kundali. The Lal Kitab has suggested yet another

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > method. Therefore there is nothing unusual or

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > surprising about the method.

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > The major question is what could have been the

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > logic or the arithmetic applied to generate the table.

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > We know that unless there was some formula the

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > table could not have been generated. We do not

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > know the formula as yet. But sure one day the

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > formula would be known. Till such time the formula

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > used is found out, let us not treat the sarini as some

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > thing super natural. There is nothing mystical or

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > super natural about it. It is an ordinary table; there are

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > hundreds of such tables used in the traditional astrology

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > [ 2 ] For sun + mars the book says :

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > This is simple to explain, have a look at what

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > constitutes these two planets.

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > Mars = sun + mercury

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > Sun = mercury + venus

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > it is natural that this combination will not be

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > conducive for moon.

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > [ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says :

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > Ketu mande ho madad guru ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > Here Jupiter is used to strengthen ketu. There is

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > strengthening another friendly planet.

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > With great respect and regards,

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > Varun Trivedi

> >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Respected Yograj ji,

 

This is exactly what I had said. Moon can be a bali ka bakra.

 

" Ab Budh ka khali chakkar Suraj ki madad se shukkar ko barbad

> kar dega. " LK-1952, page-923).

 

our interpretation is : Once the venus is threatened , the Venus

might pass on its musibat onto the moon because the venus has kept

the moon as his escape goat.

 

Pandit didn't have to mention the fact that even the moon could be

adversely affected for the simple reason that he had faith on the

common sense of the reader.In the situation you have enumerated,

suppose there are no perceptible effects on the venus and instead

the effects are noticed on the moon, then wouldn't you infer that

here the venus has passed on his musibat to the moon.

 

For us trying to find out logic and rationale behind the statements

of the book is not an exercise into waham. On the contrary it is an

effort to establish the scientific credentials of the Lal Kitab.

 

May be our perceptions are different.

 

With respect and great regards,

 

Varun Trivedi

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, " Yograj Prabhakar "

<yr_prabhakar wrote:

>

> Dear Varun Ji

>

> You are free to understand the situation as per your convenience

> and understanding. But I am not convinced with the logic you

> have given by using the Masnooyi technique.

>

> Using this technique of Masnooyi, Antar Masnooyi and Pratayantar

> Masnooyi may look adventurous, but it must be used in the right

> context. You cannot use this thing everywhere. What each

> masnooyi planet represent, how it will work and what are the

> areas of their effects are clearly mentioned in Lal kitab.

>

> As far as the combination of Sun+Mercury+Venus is concerned. It

> is clearly mentioned that:

> " Ab Budh ka khali chakkar Suraj ki madad se shukkar ko barbad

> kar dega. " LK-1952, page-923).

>

> And Pundit ji too recommended remedy for Sun+Mer+Ven(page no. 925,

> first 6 lines) not Chandar. Why Pundit ji did not considered the

> Qurbani ka Bakra concept? What could be the possible reason? Why

> Shukkar is unable to pass on the bad effects on Chandar in this

> combination? why Chandar is not at all affected?

>

> There maybe a few things left on readers own intelligence, but we

must

> not forget that:

> " ..... " Farzee manmaani ya Manghadat baat Veham paida karegi, aur

> Veham ka ilaaz shayad hi kahin milta hoga. " (LK-1952, page 6,

> Juz-5)

>

>

> Respectfully

> Yograj Prabhakar

>

>

>

>

> , " varun_trvd "

> <varun_trvd@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Respected Yograj ji,

> >

> > This is how we have understood the problem.

> >

> > May be you have a different approach which

> >

> > we all would love to hear about.

> >

> >

> >

> > If the sun gets associated with the combination

> >

> > of mercury and venus, it will make the combination

> >

> > malefic. The book says:

> >

> >

> >

> > Uttam barabar asar dono ka, drishti ravi na karata jo

> >

> >

> >

> > [ 1952 urdu ed : page 856 line #4 ]

> >

> >

> >

> > Therefore if in a kundali mercury and venus are

> >

> > together and if they get associated with the sun in

> >

> > any capacity, then moon will get the brunt. Moon

> >

> > will be the ultimate bali ka bakara.

> >

> >

> >

> > {In the equation I had worked out for sun+ mars,

> >

> > sun itself is one of the components of that break up.}

> >

> >

> >

> > Whether this has been specifically mentioned in the

> >

> > book or not is a different matter. Most of the things

> >

> > have been left to the intelligence of the reader. They

> >

> > should use deductive logic to get at the conclusion.

> >

> >

> >

> > This is how we have understood it. May be you have

> >

> > got a different understanding. We would love to hear

> >

> > your views too on both these issues : Mars + sun and

> >

> > the moon getting affected; and mercury + venus and

> >

> > no mention of moon getting affected.

> >

> >

> >

> > With respect and regards,

> >

> >

> >

> > Varun Trivedi

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , Yograj Prabhakar

> > <yr_prabhakar@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Varun Ji

> > >

> > > For Sun+Mars You have said :

> > >

> > > Mars = sun + mercury

> > > Sun = mercury + venus

> > >

> > > If you notice this combination is all mercury and venus , both

enemies

> > of the moon.Therefore it is natural that this combination will

not be

> > conducive for moon.

> > >

> > >

> > > My question is If Mercury and Venus (as Masnooyi constituents)

are

> > responsible for making Moon weak In Sun+Mar combination, then

why the

> > same condition is not applicable in Mercury+Venus combination in

the

> > chart? Why it is specially mentioned in the Sun+Mars combination

only?

> > >

> > >

> > > Respectfully

> > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > >

> > >

> > > --- On Sun, 6/22/08, varun_trvd varun_trvd@ wrote:

> > > varun_trvd varun_trvd@

> > > LK discussion group Re:Devising the form of an

upaya / Pt.

> > Umesh Sharma ji

> > >

> > > Sunday, June 22, 2008, 10:56 PM

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Respected finn saheb,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Thank you so much for adding a new perspective to the

explanation.

> > >

> > > Yes, you are right; this is the reason why taking the help of

> > >

> > > jupiter has been suggested.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Varun Trivedi

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > , " Finn Wandahl "

> > >

> > > <finn.wandahl@ ...> wrote:

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Dear Varun Trivedi,

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > >>...[ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says: " Ketu mande ho

madad

> > >

> > > guru

> > >

> > > > ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho " . Here Jupiter is used to

> > >

> > > strengthen

> > >

> > > > ketu. There is nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

> > >

> > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

> > >

> > > strengthening

> > >

> > > > another friendly planet...<<

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Sure, this is a sound explanation. But perhaps there is more

to

> > >

> > > it. an

> > >

> > > > additional explanation could be that Ketu is debilitated in

the 3rd

> > >

> > > > house, and therefore Jupiter could be suggested to strengten

Ketu,

> > >

> > > > because Jupiter rules the 9th house (Sagittarius) where Ketu

is

> > >

> > > > exalted. This way exaltation would undo debilitation, so to

speak.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > :-)

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Finn Wandahl

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > , " varun_trvd "

> > >

> > > > <varun_trvd@ > wrote:

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Respected Umesh ji,

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > My views on the issues you have raised.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > [ 1 ] Lal Kitab varshphal sarini :

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > In traditional vedic Jyotish there are quite a few

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > methods prevalent for working out the Varshphal

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > kundali. The Lal Kitab has suggested yet another

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > method. Therefore there is nothing unusual or

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > surprising about the method.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > The major question is what could have been the

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > logic or the arithmetic applied to generate the table.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > We know that unless there was some formula the

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > table could not have been generated. We do not

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > know the formula as yet. But sure one day the

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > formula would be known. Till such time the formula

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > used is found out, let us not treat the sarini as some

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > thing super natural. There is nothing mystical or

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > super natural about it. It is an ordinary table; there are

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > hundreds of such tables used in the traditional astrology

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > [ 2 ] For sun + mars the book says :

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > This is simple to explain, have a look at what

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > constitutes these two planets.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Mars = sun + mercury

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Sun = mercury + venus

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > it is natural that this combination will not be

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > conducive for moon.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > [ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says :

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Ketu mande ho madad guru ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Here Jupiter is used to strengthen ketu. There is

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > strengthening another friendly planet.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > With great respect and regards,

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Prabhakar ji,

 

It is alright if you do not agree to the logic given by shri Varun

ji. But then could you give your alternate logic to –

A)why would be manda asar on moon if the sun and mars are together?

B)why shukkar apani bala bali ke bakare chanderama par nahi dalega

if venus and mercury ka sath sooraj se ho jaye to?

 

Sincerely

 

HS Gill

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, " Yograj Prabhakar "

<yr_prabhakar wrote:

>

> Dear Varun Ji

>

> You are free to understand the situation as per your convenience

> and understanding. But I am not convinced with the logic you

> have given by using the Masnooyi technique.

>

> Using this technique of Masnooyi, Antar Masnooyi and Pratayantar

> Masnooyi may look adventurous, but it must be used in the right

> context. You cannot use this thing everywhere. What each

> masnooyi planet represent, how it will work and what are the

> areas of their effects are clearly mentioned in Lal kitab.

>

> As far as the combination of Sun+Mercury+Venus is concerned. It

> is clearly mentioned that:

> " Ab Budh ka khali chakkar Suraj ki madad se shukkar ko barbad

> kar dega. " LK-1952, page-923).

>

> And Pundit ji too recommended remedy for Sun+Mer+Ven(page no. 925,

> first 6 lines) not Chandar. Why Pundit ji did not considered the

> Qurbani ka Bakra concept? What could be the possible reason? Why

> Shukkar is unable to pass on the bad effects on Chandar in this

> combination? why Chandar is not at all affected?

>

> There maybe a few things left on readers own intelligence, but we

must

> not forget that:

> " ..... " Farzee manmaani ya Manghadat baat Veham paida karegi, aur

> Veham ka ilaaz shayad hi kahin milta hoga. " (LK-1952, page 6,

> Juz-5)

>

>

> Respectfully

> Yograj Prabhakar

>

>

>

>

> , " varun_trvd "

> <varun_trvd@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Respected Yograj ji,

> >

> > This is how we have understood the problem.

> >

> > May be you have a different approach which

> >

> > we all would love to hear about.

> >

> >

> >

> > If the sun gets associated with the combination

> >

> > of mercury and venus, it will make the combination

> >

> > malefic. The book says:

> >

> >

> >

> > Uttam barabar asar dono ka, drishti ravi na karata jo

> >

> >

> >

> > [ 1952 urdu ed : page 856 line #4 ]

> >

> >

> >

> > Therefore if in a kundali mercury and venus are

> >

> > together and if they get associated with the sun in

> >

> > any capacity, then moon will get the brunt. Moon

> >

> > will be the ultimate bali ka bakara.

> >

> >

> >

> > {In the equation I had worked out for sun+ mars,

> >

> > sun itself is one of the components of that break up.}

> >

> >

> >

> > Whether this has been specifically mentioned in the

> >

> > book or not is a different matter. Most of the things

> >

> > have been left to the intelligence of the reader. They

> >

> > should use deductive logic to get at the conclusion.

> >

> >

> >

> > This is how we have understood it. May be you have

> >

> > got a different understanding. We would love to hear

> >

> > your views too on both these issues : Mars + sun and

> >

> > the moon getting affected; and mercury + venus and

> >

> > no mention of moon getting affected.

> >

> >

> >

> > With respect and regards,

> >

> >

> >

> > Varun Trivedi

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , Yograj Prabhakar

> > <yr_prabhakar@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Varun Ji

> > >

> > > For Sun+Mars You have said :

> > >

> > > Mars = sun + mercury

> > > Sun = mercury + venus

> > >

> > > If you notice this combination is all mercury and venus , both

enemies

> > of the moon.Therefore it is natural that this combination will

not be

> > conducive for moon.

> > >

> > >

> > > My question is If Mercury and Venus (as Masnooyi constituents)

are

> > responsible for making Moon weak In Sun+Mar combination, then

why the

> > same condition is not applicable in Mercury+Venus combination in

the

> > chart? Why it is specially mentioned in the Sun+Mars combination

only?

> > >

> > >

> > > Respectfully

> > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > >

> > >

> > > --- On Sun, 6/22/08, varun_trvd varun_trvd@ wrote:

> > > varun_trvd varun_trvd@

> > > LK discussion group Re:Devising the form of an

upaya / Pt.

> > Umesh Sharma ji

> > >

> > > Sunday, June 22, 2008, 10:56 PM

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Respected finn saheb,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Thank you so much for adding a new perspective to the

explanation.

> > >

> > > Yes, you are right; this is the reason why taking the help of

> > >

> > > jupiter has been suggested.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Varun Trivedi

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > , " Finn Wandahl "

> > >

> > > <finn.wandahl@ ...> wrote:

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Dear Varun Trivedi,

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > >>...[ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says: " Ketu mande ho

madad

> > >

> > > guru

> > >

> > > > ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho " . Here Jupiter is used to

> > >

> > > strengthen

> > >

> > > > ketu. There is nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

> > >

> > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

> > >

> > > strengthening

> > >

> > > > another friendly planet...<<

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Sure, this is a sound explanation. But perhaps there is more

to

> > >

> > > it. an

> > >

> > > > additional explanation could be that Ketu is debilitated in

the 3rd

> > >

> > > > house, and therefore Jupiter could be suggested to strengten

Ketu,

> > >

> > > > because Jupiter rules the 9th house (Sagittarius) where Ketu

is

> > >

> > > > exalted. This way exaltation would undo debilitation, so to

speak.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > :-)

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Finn Wandahl

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > , " varun_trvd "

> > >

> > > > <varun_trvd@ > wrote:

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Respected Umesh ji,

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > My views on the issues you have raised.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > [ 1 ] Lal Kitab varshphal sarini :

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > In traditional vedic Jyotish there are quite a few

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > methods prevalent for working out the Varshphal

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > kundali. The Lal Kitab has suggested yet another

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > method. Therefore there is nothing unusual or

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > surprising about the method.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > The major question is what could have been the

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > logic or the arithmetic applied to generate the table.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > We know that unless there was some formula the

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > table could not have been generated. We do not

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > know the formula as yet. But sure one day the

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > formula would be known. Till such time the formula

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > used is found out, let us not treat the sarini as some

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > thing super natural. There is nothing mystical or

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > super natural about it. It is an ordinary table; there are

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > hundreds of such tables used in the traditional astrology

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > [ 2 ] For sun + mars the book says :

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > This is simple to explain, have a look at what

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > constitutes these two planets.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Mars = sun + mercury

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Sun = mercury + venus

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > it is natural that this combination will not be

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > conducive for moon.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > [ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says :

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Ketu mande ho madad guru ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Here Jupiter is used to strengthen ketu. There is

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > strengthening another friendly planet.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > With great respect and regards,

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Shri Yograj ji,

 

Scientific enquiry and scientific temper leads to the truth, it

dispels vaham. Resistance to it would perpetrate vaham. It is this

approach to shield and keep the book away from scientific scrutiny,

which reduced it to a book of tona-totkas. I know some lalkitabists

are not happy with the way the Lal Kitab is treated in this group.

If they are not, so be it. [ apologies to the moderator]

In your quote on farzee vaham you had missed out the words kitab ke

bagair. All discussions in this group have been within the limits of

the book. In no other Lal Kitab group the book has so often been

quoted as in this group; so much so we had to request the moderator

to give the page numbers from the Arun Sanhita also, because most of

us do not know how to read Urdu.

You can not call using Masnuyee concepts as adventurous simply

because you or others have not used the concept to understand the

logic behind the upaya. As a matter of fact it is for the first time

we learnt how to use this concept in this group. You might think it

as adventurous, but for us the young learners it is innovative. I

hope you know the difference of spirit between the two.

Shri Prabhakar ji, you have turned down the logic of shri Varun ji.

It is the easiest thing to do. Even I could turn around and say I do

not agree. But giving an alternative answer is what is expected if

you disagree. But you have not given your logic for those two

questions which Varun ji had given his logic for.

I hope now you will give your logic for the two questions Gill sahib

has asked.

 

Sincerely,

 

Girish Raheja

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, " Yograj Prabhakar "

<yr_prabhakar wrote:

>

> Dear Varun Ji

>

> You are free to understand the situation as per your convenience

> and understanding. But I am not convinced with the logic you

> have given by using the Masnooyi technique.

>

> Using this technique of Masnooyi, Antar Masnooyi and Pratayantar

> Masnooyi may look adventurous, but it must be used in the right

> context. You cannot use this thing everywhere. What each

> masnooyi planet represent, how it will work and what are the

> areas of their effects are clearly mentioned in Lal kitab.

>

> As far as the combination of Sun+Mercury+Venus is concerned. It

> is clearly mentioned that:

> " Ab Budh ka khali chakkar Suraj ki madad se shukkar ko barbad

> kar dega. " LK-1952, page-923).

>

> And Pundit ji too recommended remedy for Sun+Mer+Ven(page no. 925,

> first 6 lines) not Chandar. Why Pundit ji did not considered the

> Qurbani ka Bakra concept? What could be the possible reason? Why

> Shukkar is unable to pass on the bad effects on Chandar in this

> combination? why Chandar is not at all affected?

>

> There maybe a few things left on readers own intelligence, but we

must

> not forget that:

> " ..... " Farzee manmaani ya Manghadat baat Veham paida karegi, aur

> Veham ka ilaaz shayad hi kahin milta hoga. " (LK-1952, page 6,

> Juz-5)

>

>

> Respectfully

> Yograj Prabhakar

>

>

>

>

> , " varun_trvd "

> <varun_trvd@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Respected Yograj ji,

> >

> > This is how we have understood the problem.

> >

> > May be you have a different approach which

> >

> > we all would love to hear about.

> >

> >

> >

> > If the sun gets associated with the combination

> >

> > of mercury and venus, it will make the combination

> >

> > malefic. The book says:

> >

> >

> >

> > Uttam barabar asar dono ka, drishti ravi na karata jo

> >

> >

> >

> > [ 1952 urdu ed : page 856 line #4 ]

> >

> >

> >

> > Therefore if in a kundali mercury and venus are

> >

> > together and if they get associated with the sun in

> >

> > any capacity, then moon will get the brunt. Moon

> >

> > will be the ultimate bali ka bakara.

> >

> >

> >

> > {In the equation I had worked out for sun+ mars,

> >

> > sun itself is one of the components of that break up.}

> >

> >

> >

> > Whether this has been specifically mentioned in the

> >

> > book or not is a different matter. Most of the things

> >

> > have been left to the intelligence of the reader. They

> >

> > should use deductive logic to get at the conclusion.

> >

> >

> >

> > This is how we have understood it. May be you have

> >

> > got a different understanding. We would love to hear

> >

> > your views too on both these issues : Mars + sun and

> >

> > the moon getting affected; and mercury + venus and

> >

> > no mention of moon getting affected.

> >

> >

> >

> > With respect and regards,

> >

> >

> >

> > Varun Trivedi

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , Yograj Prabhakar

> > <yr_prabhakar@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Varun Ji

> > >

> > > For Sun+Mars You have said :

> > >

> > > Mars = sun + mercury

> > > Sun = mercury + venus

> > >

> > > If you notice this combination is all mercury and venus , both

enemies

> > of the moon.Therefore it is natural that this combination will

not be

> > conducive for moon.

> > >

> > >

> > > My question is If Mercury and Venus (as Masnooyi constituents)

are

> > responsible for making Moon weak In Sun+Mar combination, then

why the

> > same condition is not applicable in Mercury+Venus combination in

the

> > chart? Why it is specially mentioned in the Sun+Mars combination

only?

> > >

> > >

> > > Respectfully

> > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > >

> > >

> > > --- On Sun, 6/22/08, varun_trvd varun_trvd@ wrote:

> > > varun_trvd varun_trvd@

> > > LK discussion group Re:Devising the form of an

upaya / Pt.

> > Umesh Sharma ji

> > >

> > > Sunday, June 22, 2008, 10:56 PM

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Respected finn saheb,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Thank you so much for adding a new perspective to the

explanation.

> > >

> > > Yes, you are right; this is the reason why taking the help of

> > >

> > > jupiter has been suggested.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Varun Trivedi

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > , " Finn Wandahl "

> > >

> > > <finn.wandahl@ ...> wrote:

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Dear Varun Trivedi,

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > >>...[ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says: " Ketu mande ho

madad

> > >

> > > guru

> > >

> > > > ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho " . Here Jupiter is used to

> > >

> > > strengthen

> > >

> > > > ketu. There is nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

> > >

> > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

> > >

> > > strengthening

> > >

> > > > another friendly planet...<<

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Sure, this is a sound explanation. But perhaps there is more

to

> > >

> > > it. an

> > >

> > > > additional explanation could be that Ketu is debilitated in

the 3rd

> > >

> > > > house, and therefore Jupiter could be suggested to strengten

Ketu,

> > >

> > > > because Jupiter rules the 9th house (Sagittarius) where Ketu

is

> > >

> > > > exalted. This way exaltation would undo debilitation, so to

speak.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > :-)

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Finn Wandahl

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > , " varun_trvd "

> > >

> > > > <varun_trvd@ > wrote:

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Respected Umesh ji,

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > My views on the issues you have raised.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > [ 1 ] Lal Kitab varshphal sarini :

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > In traditional vedic Jyotish there are quite a few

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > methods prevalent for working out the Varshphal

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > kundali. The Lal Kitab has suggested yet another

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > method. Therefore there is nothing unusual or

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > surprising about the method.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > The major question is what could have been the

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > logic or the arithmetic applied to generate the table.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > We know that unless there was some formula the

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > table could not have been generated. We do not

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > know the formula as yet. But sure one day the

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > formula would be known. Till such time the formula

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > used is found out, let us not treat the sarini as some

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > thing super natural. There is nothing mystical or

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > super natural about it. It is an ordinary table; there are

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > hundreds of such tables used in the traditional astrology

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > [ 2 ] For sun + mars the book says :

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > This is simple to explain, have a look at what

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > constitutes these two planets.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Mars = sun + mercury

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Sun = mercury + venus

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > it is natural that this combination will not be

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > conducive for moon.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > [ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says :

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Ketu mande ho madad guru ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Here Jupiter is used to strengthen ketu. There is

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > strengthening another friendly planet.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > With great respect and regards,

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Varun Ji,Is not an funny situation created with this concept.If mercury is threatened he will pass on pressure to Venus.Now Venus is threatened he will pass on to Moon. Now Moon will transfer the wrath to Sun, Mars & Jupiter. What sun mars & Jupiter do ,they transfer the load to Ketu.

Ultimately, Ketu will be the sufferer. Then why moon will suffer.In my view, it shall be treated as a rule of this combination. Answer will come in due course of studies.YoursShiv Dev Kalsi

On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 11:46 AM, varun_trvd <varun_trvd wrote:

 

 

 

 

Respected Yograj ji,

 

This is exactly what I had said. Moon can be a bali ka bakra.

 

" Ab Budh ka khali chakkar Suraj ki madad se shukkar ko barbad

> kar dega. " LK-1952, page-923).

 

our interpretation is : Once the venus is threatened , the Venus

might pass on its musibat onto the moon because the venus has kept

the moon as his escape goat.

 

Pandit didn't have to mention the fact that even the moon could be

adversely affected for the simple reason that he had faith on the

common sense of the reader.In the situation you have enumerated,

suppose there are no perceptible effects on the venus and instead

the effects are noticed on the moon, then wouldn't you infer that

here the venus has passed on his musibat to the moon.

 

For us trying to find out logic and rationale behind the statements

of the book is not an exercise into waham. On the contrary it is an

effort to establish the scientific credentials of the Lal Kitab.

 

May be our perceptions are different.

 

With respect and great regards,

 

Varun Trivedi

 

, " Yograj Prabhakar "

<yr_prabhakar wrote:

>

> Dear Varun Ji

>

> You are free to understand the situation as per your convenience

> and understanding. But I am not convinced with the logic you

> have given by using the Masnooyi technique.

>

> Using this technique of Masnooyi, Antar Masnooyi and Pratayantar

> Masnooyi may look adventurous, but it must be used in the right

> context. You cannot use this thing everywhere. What each

> masnooyi planet represent, how it will work and what are the

> areas of their effects are clearly mentioned in Lal kitab.

>

> As far as the combination of Sun+Mercury+Venus is concerned. It

> is clearly mentioned that:

> " Ab Budh ka khali chakkar Suraj ki madad se shukkar ko barbad

> kar dega. " LK-1952, page-923).

>

> And Pundit ji too recommended remedy for Sun+Mer+Ven(page no. 925,

> first 6 lines) not Chandar. Why Pundit ji did not considered the

> Qurbani ka Bakra concept? What could be the possible reason? Why

> Shukkar is unable to pass on the bad effects on Chandar in this

> combination? why Chandar is not at all affected?

>

> There maybe a few things left on readers own intelligence, but we

must

> not forget that:

> " ..... " Farzee manmaani ya Manghadat baat Veham paida karegi, aur

> Veham ka ilaaz shayad hi kahin milta hoga. " (LK-1952, page 6,

> Juz-5)

>

>

> Respectfully

> Yograj Prabhakar

>

>

>

>

> , " varun_trvd "

> <varun_trvd@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Respected Yograj ji,

> >

> > This is how we have understood the problem.

> >

> > May be you have a different approach which

> >

> > we all would love to hear about.

> >

> >

> >

> > If the sun gets associated with the combination

> >

> > of mercury and venus, it will make the combination

> >

> > malefic. The book says:

> >

> >

> >

> > Uttam barabar asar dono ka, drishti ravi na karata jo

> >

> >

> >

> > [ 1952 urdu ed : page 856 line #4 ]

> >

> >

> >

> > Therefore if in a kundali mercury and venus are

> >

> > together and if they get associated with the sun in

> >

> > any capacity, then moon will get the brunt. Moon

> >

> > will be the ultimate bali ka bakara.

> >

> >

> >

> > {In the equation I had worked out for sun+ mars,

> >

> > sun itself is one of the components of that break up.}

> >

> >

> >

> > Whether this has been specifically mentioned in the

> >

> > book or not is a different matter. Most of the things

> >

> > have been left to the intelligence of the reader. They

> >

> > should use deductive logic to get at the conclusion.

> >

> >

> >

> > This is how we have understood it. May be you have

> >

> > got a different understanding. We would love to hear

> >

> > your views too on both these issues : Mars + sun and

> >

> > the moon getting affected; and mercury + venus and

> >

> > no mention of moon getting affected.

> >

> >

> >

> > With respect and regards,

> >

> >

> >

> > Varun Trivedi

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , Yograj Prabhakar

> > <yr_prabhakar@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Varun Ji

> > >

> > > For Sun+Mars You have said :

> > >

> > > Mars = sun + mercury

> > > Sun = mercury + venus

> > >

> > > If you notice this combination is all mercury and venus , both

enemies

> > of the moon.Therefore it is natural that this combination will

not be

> > conducive for moon.

> > >

> > >

> > > My question is If Mercury and Venus (as Masnooyi constituents)

are

> > responsible for making Moon weak In Sun+Mar combination, then

why the

> > same condition is not applicable in Mercury+Venus combination in

the

> > chart? Why it is specially mentioned in the Sun+Mars combination

only?

> > >

> > >

> > > Respectfully

> > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > >

> > >

> > > --- On Sun, 6/22/08, varun_trvd varun_trvd@ wrote:

> > > varun_trvd varun_trvd@

> > > LK discussion group Re:Devising the form of an

upaya / Pt.

> > Umesh Sharma ji

> > >

> > > Sunday, June 22, 2008, 10:56 PM

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Respected finn saheb,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Thank you so much for adding a new perspective to the

explanation.

> > >

> > > Yes, you are right; this is the reason why taking the help of

> > >

> > > jupiter has been suggested.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Varun Trivedi

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > , " Finn Wandahl "

> > >

> > > <finn.wandahl@ ...> wrote:

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Dear Varun Trivedi,

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > >>...[ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says: " Ketu mande ho

madad

> > >

> > > guru

> > >

> > > > ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho " . Here Jupiter is used to

> > >

> > > strengthen

> > >

> > > > ketu. There is nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

> > >

> > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

> > >

> > > strengthening

> > >

> > > > another friendly planet...<<

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Sure, this is a sound explanation. But perhaps there is more

to

> > >

> > > it. an

> > >

> > > > additional explanation could be that Ketu is debilitated in

the 3rd

> > >

> > > > house, and therefore Jupiter could be suggested to strengten

Ketu,

> > >

> > > > because Jupiter rules the 9th house (Sagittarius) where Ketu

is

> > >

> > > > exalted. This way exaltation would undo debilitation, so to

speak.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > :-)

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Finn Wandahl

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > , " varun_trvd "

> > >

> > > > <varun_trvd@ > wrote:

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Respected Umesh ji,

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > My views on the issues you have raised.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > [ 1 ] Lal Kitab varshphal sarini :

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > In traditional vedic Jyotish there are quite a few

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > methods prevalent for working out the Varshphal

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > kundali. The Lal Kitab has suggested yet another

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > method. Therefore there is nothing unusual or

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > surprising about the method.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > The major question is what could have been the

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > logic or the arithmetic applied to generate the table.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > We know that unless there was some formula the

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > table could not have been generated. We do not

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > know the formula as yet. But sure one day the

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > formula would be known. Till such time the formula

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > used is found out, let us not treat the sarini as some

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > thing super natural. There is nothing mystical or

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > super natural about it. It is an ordinary table; there are

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > hundreds of such tables used in the traditional astrology

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > [ 2 ] For sun + mars the book says :

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > This is simple to explain, have a look at what

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > constitutes these two planets.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Mars = sun + mercury

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Sun = mercury + venus

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > it is natural that this combination will not be

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > conducive for moon.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > [ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says :

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Ketu mande ho madad guru ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Here Jupiter is used to strengthen ketu. There is

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > strengthening another friendly planet.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > With great respect and regards,

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

 

 

 

 

-- Dr. Shiv Dev Kalsi,Jyotish Rishi (AIFAS)Consultant (Vedic Astrology)

[Guest guest]

Very respected Kalsi ji,

 

NO !

 

There is nothing funny about it.

 

The concept of Bali ka bakara [ scape goat ] is to understand the

reason why the significations of a planet could be suffering.

 

Like in the example given if the venus is depressed because of the

Sun then the significations of venus should be seen as suffering.

But suppose the significations of the Venus do not seem to be

suffering and instead it is the significations of the moon which are

suffering, and there is no apparent reason for the moon to suffer.

 

Then in this case this concept of scape goat will come very handy.

The astrologer would infer that it is the sun causing distress to

the Venus which in turn has passed on its calamity on to the moon.

The astrologer would then suggest an upaya to disassociate the sun

from the venus.

 

Had this concept not been there the astrologer might suggest upaya

for the moon which will be of no avail in this situation. No upaya

can eliminate the hardship of the moon except that the venus is

protected from the onslaught of the sun. And this upaya can not even

occur to the mind of the astrologer unless he is aware of the

concept of the scape goat.

 

With respect and naman,

 

Varun Trivedi

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, " Shivdev Kalsi "

<shivdev.kalsi wrote:

>

> Dear Varun Ji,

> Is not an funny situation created with this concept.

> If mercury is threatened he will pass on pressure to Venus.Now

Venus is

> threatened he will pass on to Moon. Now Moon will transfer the

wrath to

> Sun, Mars & Jupiter. What sun mars & Jupiter do ,they transfer the

load to

> Ketu.

> Ultimately, Ketu will be the sufferer.

> Then why moon will suffer.

> In my view, it shall be treated as a rule of this combination.

Answer will

> come in due course of studies.

> Yours

> Shiv Dev Kalsi

>

> On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 11:46 AM, varun_trvd <varun_trvd

wrote:

>

> > Respected Yograj ji,

> >

> > This is exactly what I had said. Moon can be a bali ka bakra.

> >

> >

> > " Ab Budh ka khali chakkar Suraj ki madad se shukkar ko barbad

> > > kar dega. " LK-1952, page-923).

> >

> > our interpretation is : Once the venus is threatened , the Venus

> > might pass on its musibat onto the moon because the venus has

kept

> > the moon as his escape goat.

> >

> > Pandit didn't have to mention the fact that even the moon could

be

> > adversely affected for the simple reason that he had faith on the

> > common sense of the reader.In the situation you have enumerated,

> > suppose there are no perceptible effects on the venus and instead

> > the effects are noticed on the moon, then wouldn't you infer that

> > here the venus has passed on his musibat to the moon.

> >

> > For us trying to find out logic and rationale behind the

statements

> > of the book is not an exercise into waham. On the contrary it is

an

> > effort to establish the scientific credentials of the Lal Kitab.

> >

> > May be our perceptions are different.

> >

> > With respect and great regards,

> >

> >

> > Varun Trivedi

> >

> > <%

40>,

> > " Yograj Prabhakar "

> > <yr_prabhakar@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Varun Ji

> > >

> > > You are free to understand the situation as per your

convenience

> > > and understanding. But I am not convinced with the logic you

> > > have given by using the Masnooyi technique.

> > >

> > > Using this technique of Masnooyi, Antar Masnooyi and

Pratayantar

> > > Masnooyi may look adventurous, but it must be used in the right

> > > context. You cannot use this thing everywhere. What each

> > > masnooyi planet represent, how it will work and what are the

> > > areas of their effects are clearly mentioned in Lal kitab.

> > >

> > > As far as the combination of Sun+Mercury+Venus is concerned. It

> > > is clearly mentioned that:

> > > " Ab Budh ka khali chakkar Suraj ki madad se shukkar ko barbad

> > > kar dega. " LK-1952, page-923).

> > >

> > > And Pundit ji too recommended remedy for Sun+Mer+Ven(page no.

925,

> > > first 6 lines) not Chandar. Why Pundit ji did not considered

the

> > > Qurbani ka Bakra concept? What could be the possible reason?

Why

> > > Shukkar is unable to pass on the bad effects on Chandar in this

> > > combination? why Chandar is not at all affected?

> > >

> > > There maybe a few things left on readers own intelligence, but

we

> > must

> > > not forget that:

> > > " ..... " Farzee manmaani ya Manghadat baat Veham paida karegi,

aur

> > > Veham ka ilaaz shayad hi kahin milta hoga. " (LK-1952, page 6,

> > > Juz-5)

> > >

> > >

> > > Respectfully

> > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > <%

40>,

> > " varun_trvd "

> > > <varun_trvd@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Respected Yograj ji,

> > > >

> > > > This is how we have understood the problem.

> > > >

> > > > May be you have a different approach which

> > > >

> > > > we all would love to hear about.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > If the sun gets associated with the combination

> > > >

> > > > of mercury and venus, it will make the combination

> > > >

> > > > malefic. The book says:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Uttam barabar asar dono ka, drishti ravi na karata jo

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > [ 1952 urdu ed : page 856 line #4 ]

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Therefore if in a kundali mercury and venus are

> > > >

> > > > together and if they get associated with the sun in

> > > >

> > > > any capacity, then moon will get the brunt. Moon

> > > >

> > > > will be the ultimate bali ka bakara.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > {In the equation I had worked out for sun+ mars,

> > > >

> > > > sun itself is one of the components of that break up.}

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Whether this has been specifically mentioned in the

> > > >

> > > > book or not is a different matter. Most of the things

> > > >

> > > > have been left to the intelligence of the reader. They

> > > >

> > > > should use deductive logic to get at the conclusion.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > This is how we have understood it. May be you have

> > > >

> > > > got a different understanding. We would love to hear

> > > >

> > > > your views too on both these issues : Mars + sun and

> > > >

> > > > the moon getting affected; and mercury + venus and

> > > >

> > > > no mention of moon getting affected.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > With respect and regards,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > --- In

<%

40>,

> > Yograj Prabhakar

> > > > <yr_prabhakar@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Varun Ji

> > > > >

> > > > > For Sun+Mars You have said :

> > > > >

> > > > > Mars = sun + mercury

> > > > > Sun = mercury + venus

> > > > >

> > > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury and venus ,

both

> > enemies

> > > > of the moon.Therefore it is natural that this combination

will

> > not be

> > > > conducive for moon.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > My question is If Mercury and Venus (as Masnooyi

constituents)

> > are

> > > > responsible for making Moon weak In Sun+Mar combination, then

> > why the

> > > > same condition is not applicable in Mercury+Venus

combination in

> > the

> > > > chart? Why it is specially mentioned in the Sun+Mars

combination

> > only?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Respectfully

> > > > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > --- On Sun, 6/22/08, varun_trvd varun_trvd@ wrote:

> > > > > varun_trvd varun_trvd@

> > > > > LK discussion group Re:Devising the form of an

> > upaya / Pt.

> > > > Umesh Sharma ji

> > > > > To:

<%

40>

> > > > > Sunday, June 22, 2008, 10:56 PM

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Respected finn saheb,

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Thank you so much for adding a new perspective to the

> > explanation.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes, you are right; this is the reason why taking the help

of

> > > > >

> > > > > jupiter has been suggested.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > , " Finn

Wandahl "

> > > > >

> > > > > <finn.wandahl@ ...> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Varun Trivedi,

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >>...[ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says: " Ketu mande ho

> > madad

> > > > >

> > > > > guru

> > > > >

> > > > > > ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho " . Here Jupiter is used

to

> > > > >

> > > > > strengthen

> > > > >

> > > > > > ketu. There is nothing unusual in that. This is a very

common

> > > > >

> > > > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

> > > > >

> > > > > strengthening

> > > > >

> > > > > > another friendly planet...<<

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > Sure, this is a sound explanation. But perhaps there is

more

> > to

> > > > >

> > > > > it. an

> > > > >

> > > > > > additional explanation could be that Ketu is debilitated

in

> > the 3rd

> > > > >

> > > > > > house, and therefore Jupiter could be suggested to

strengten

> > Ketu,

> > > > >

> > > > > > because Jupiter rules the 9th house (Sagittarius) where

Ketu

> > is

> > > > >

> > > > > > exalted. This way exaltation would undo debilitation, so

to

> > speak.

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > :-)

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > Finn Wandahl

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > @.

com, " varun_trvd "

> > > > >

> > > > > > <varun_trvd@ > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > Respected Umesh ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > My views on the issues you have raised.

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > [ 1 ] Lal Kitab varshphal sarini :

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > In traditional vedic Jyotish there are quite a few

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > methods prevalent for working out the Varshphal

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > kundali. The Lal Kitab has suggested yet another

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > method. Therefore there is nothing unusual or

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > surprising about the method.

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > The major question is what could have been the

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > logic or the arithmetic applied to generate the table.

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > We know that unless there was some formula the

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > table could not have been generated. We do not

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > know the formula as yet. But sure one day the

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > formula would be known. Till such time the formula

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > used is found out, let us not treat the sarini as some

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > thing super natural. There is nothing mystical or

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > super natural about it. It is an ordinary table; there

are

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > hundreds of such tables used in the traditional

astrology

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > [ 2 ] For sun + mars the book says :

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > This is simple to explain, have a look at what

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > constitutes these two planets.

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > Mars = sun + mercury

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > Sun = mercury + venus

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > it is natural that this combination will not be

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > conducive for moon.

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > [ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says :

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > Ketu mande ho madad guru ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota

ho

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > Here Jupiter is used to strengthen ketu. There is

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used

for

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > strengthening another friendly planet.

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > With great respect and regards,

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

> Dr. Shiv Dev Kalsi,

> Jyotish Rishi (AIFAS)

> Consultant (Vedic Astrology)

>

[Guest guest]

Very respected Kalsi ji,

 

NO !

 

Mars can not be taken to mean sun + Saturn because they are the

constituents of ashubh Mars.

And in the company of a Sun, the mars can not be ashubh [ bud ]

 

With respect and naman,

 

Varun Trivedi

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, " Shivdev Kalsi "

<shivdev.kalsi wrote:

>

> Dear Varun Ji,

> You have taken Sun + Mars equation as

> Mars = sun + mercury

> Sun = mercury + Venus

> This can also be taken as

> Mars = Sun + Saturn

> Sun = Mercury + Venus

> Yours

> Shiv Dev Kalsi

>

> On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 9:04 PM, varun_trvd <varun_trvd wrote:

>

> > Respected Yograj ji,

> >

> > This is how we have understood the problem.

> >

> > May be you have a different approach which

> >

> > we all would love to hear about.

> >

> >

> >

> > If the sun gets associated with the combination

> >

> > of mercury and venus, it will make the combination

> >

> > malefic. The book says:

> >

> >

> >

> > Uttam barabar asar dono ka, drishti ravi na karata jo

> >

> >

> >

> > [ 1952 urdu ed : page 856 line #4 ]

> >

> >

> >

> > Therefore if in a kundali mercury and venus are

> >

> > together and if they get associated with the sun in

> >

> > any capacity, then moon will get the brunt. Moon

> >

> > will be the ultimate bali ka bakara.

> >

> >

> >

> > {In the equation I had worked out for sun+ mars,

> >

> > sun itself is one of the components of that break up.}

> >

> >

> >

> > Whether this has been specifically mentioned in the

> >

> > book or not is a different matter. Most of the things

> >

> > have been left to the intelligence of the reader. They

> >

> > should use deductive logic to get at the conclusion.

> >

> >

> >

> > This is how we have understood it. May be you have

> >

> > got a different understanding. We would love to hear

> >

> > your views too on both these issues : Mars + sun and

> >

> > the moon getting affected; and mercury + venus and

> >

> > no mention of moon getting affected.

> >

> >

> >

> > With respect and regards,

> >

> >

> >

> > Varun Trivedi

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , Yograj Prabhakar

> > <yr_prabhakar@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Varun Ji

> > >

> > > For Sun+Mars You have said :

> > >

> > > Mars = sun + mercury

> > > Sun = mercury + venus

> > >

> > > If you notice this combination is all mercury and venus , both

enemies of

> > the moon.Therefore it is natural that this combination will not

be conducive

> > for moon.

> > >

> > >

> > > My question is If Mercury and Venus (as Masnooyi constituents)

are

> > responsible for making Moon weak In Sun+Mar combination, then

why the same

> > condition is not applicable in Mercury+Venus combination in the

chart? Why

> > it is specially mentioned in the Sun+Mars combination only?

> > >

> > >

> > > Respectfully

> > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > >

> > >

> > > --- On Sun, 6/22/08, varun_trvd varun_trvd@ wrote:

> > > varun_trvd varun_trvd@

> >

> > > LK discussion group Re:Devising the form of an

upaya / Pt. Umesh

> > Sharma ji

> > >

> > > Sunday, June 22, 2008, 10:56 PM

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Respected finn saheb,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Thank you so much for adding a new perspective to the

explanation.

> > >

> > > Yes, you are right; this is the reason why taking the help of

> > >

> > > jupiter has been suggested.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Varun Trivedi

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > , " Finn Wandahl "

> > >

> > > <finn.wandahl@ ...> wrote:

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Dear Varun Trivedi,

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > >>...[ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says: " Ketu mande ho

madad

> > >

> > > guru

> > >

> > > > ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho " . Here Jupiter is used to

> > >

> > > strengthen

> > >

> > > > ketu. There is nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

> > >

> > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

> > >

> > > strengthening

> > >

> > > > another friendly planet...<<

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Sure, this is a sound explanation. But perhaps there is more

to

> > >

> > > it. an

> > >

> > > > additional explanation could be that Ketu is debilitated in

the 3rd

> > >

> > > > house, and therefore Jupiter could be suggested to strengten

Ketu,

> > >

> > > > because Jupiter rules the 9th house (Sagittarius) where Ketu

is

> > >

> > > > exalted. This way exaltation would undo debilitation, so to

speak.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > :-)

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Finn Wandahl

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > , " varun_trvd "

> > >

> > > > <varun_trvd@ > wrote:

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Respected Umesh ji,

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > My views on the issues you have raised.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > [ 1 ] Lal Kitab varshphal sarini :

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > In traditional vedic Jyotish there are quite a few

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > methods prevalent for working out the Varshphal

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > kundali. The Lal Kitab has suggested yet another

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > method. Therefore there is nothing unusual or

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > surprising about the method.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > The major question is what could have been the

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > logic or the arithmetic applied to generate the table.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > We know that unless there was some formula the

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > table could not have been generated. We do not

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > know the formula as yet. But sure one day the

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > formula would be known. Till such time the formula

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > used is found out, let us not treat the sarini as some

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > thing super natural. There is nothing mystical or

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > super natural about it. It is an ordinary table; there are

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > hundreds of such tables used in the traditional astrology

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > [ 2 ] For sun + mars the book says :

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > This is simple to explain, have a look at what

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > constitutes these two planets.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Mars = sun + mercury

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Sun = mercury + venus

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > it is natural that this combination will not be

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > conducive for moon.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > [ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says :

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Ketu mande ho madad guru ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Here Jupiter is used to strengthen ketu. There is

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > strengthening another friendly planet.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > With great respect and regards,

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

> Dr. Shiv Dev Kalsi,

> Jyotish Rishi (AIFAS)

> Consultant (Vedic Astrology)

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Varun Ji,Please Go by Heading 'Sooraj Mangal " Line 8 & 9 of Page 1942 Book. I reproduce these line for your reference: " Lekin Mangal Bud ko sooraj kee madad yaa Mangal Bud se sooraj kaa taaluq mandey haal aur kareebi rishtedaaron kee mauten vagairah. "

How do you interprete these lines in combination to your reply.YoursShiv Dev KalsiOn Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 8:11 PM, varun_trvd <varun_trvd wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Very respected Kalsi ji,

 

NO !

 

Mars can not be taken to mean sun + Saturn because they are the

constituents of ashubh Mars.

And in the company of a Sun, the mars can not be ashubh [ bud ]

 

With respect and naman,

 

Varun Trivedi

 

, " Shivdev Kalsi "

<shivdev.kalsi wrote:

>

> Dear Varun Ji,

> You have taken Sun + Mars equation as

> Mars = sun + mercury

> Sun = mercury + Venus

> This can also be taken as

> Mars = Sun + Saturn

> Sun = Mercury + Venus

> Yours

> Shiv Dev Kalsi

>

> On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 9:04 PM, varun_trvd <varun_trvd wrote:

>

> > Respected Yograj ji,

> >

> > This is how we have understood the problem.

> >

> > May be you have a different approach which

> >

> > we all would love to hear about.

> >

> >

> >

> > If the sun gets associated with the combination

> >

> > of mercury and venus, it will make the combination

> >

> > malefic. The book says:

> >

> >

> >

> > Uttam barabar asar dono ka, drishti ravi na karata jo

> >

> >

> >

> > [ 1952 urdu ed : page 856 line #4 ]

> >

> >

> >

> > Therefore if in a kundali mercury and venus are

> >

> > together and if they get associated with the sun in

> >

> > any capacity, then moon will get the brunt. Moon

> >

> > will be the ultimate bali ka bakara.

> >

> >

> >

> > {In the equation I had worked out for sun+ mars,

> >

> > sun itself is one of the components of that break up.}

> >

> >

> >

> > Whether this has been specifically mentioned in the

> >

> > book or not is a different matter. Most of the things

> >

> > have been left to the intelligence of the reader. They

> >

> > should use deductive logic to get at the conclusion.

> >

> >

> >

> > This is how we have understood it. May be you have

> >

> > got a different understanding. We would love to hear

> >

> > your views too on both these issues : Mars + sun and

> >

> > the moon getting affected; and mercury + venus and

> >

> > no mention of moon getting affected.

> >

> >

> >

> > With respect and regards,

> >

> >

> >

> > Varun Trivedi

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , Yograj Prabhakar

> > <yr_prabhakar@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Varun Ji

> > >

> > > For Sun+Mars You have said :

> > >

> > > Mars = sun + mercury

> > > Sun = mercury + venus

> > >

> > > If you notice this combination is all mercury and venus , both

enemies of

> > the moon.Therefore it is natural that this combination will not

be conducive

> > for moon.

> > >

> > >

> > > My question is If Mercury and Venus (as Masnooyi constituents)

are

> > responsible for making Moon weak In Sun+Mar combination, then

why the same

> > condition is not applicable in Mercury+Venus combination in the

chart? Why

> > it is specially mentioned in the Sun+Mars combination only?

> > >

> > >

> > > Respectfully

> > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > >

> > >

> > > --- On Sun, 6/22/08, varun_trvd varun_trvd@ wrote:

> > > varun_trvd varun_trvd@

> >

> > > LK discussion group Re:Devising the form of an

upaya / Pt. Umesh

> > Sharma ji

> > >

> > > Sunday, June 22, 2008, 10:56 PM

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Respected finn saheb,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Thank you so much for adding a new perspective to the

explanation.

> > >

> > > Yes, you are right; this is the reason why taking the help of

> > >

> > > jupiter has been suggested.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Varun Trivedi

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > , " Finn Wandahl "

> > >

> > > <finn.wandahl@ ...> wrote:

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Dear Varun Trivedi,

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > >>...[ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says: " Ketu mande ho

madad

> > >

> > > guru

> > >

> > > > ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho " . Here Jupiter is used to

> > >

> > > strengthen

> > >

> > > > ketu. There is nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

> > >

> > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

> > >

> > > strengthening

> > >

> > > > another friendly planet...<<

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Sure, this is a sound explanation. But perhaps there is more

to

> > >

> > > it. an

> > >

> > > > additional explanation could be that Ketu is debilitated in

the 3rd

> > >

> > > > house, and therefore Jupiter could be suggested to strengten

Ketu,

> > >

> > > > because Jupiter rules the 9th house (Sagittarius) where Ketu

is

> > >

> > > > exalted. This way exaltation would undo debilitation, so to

speak.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > :-)

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Finn Wandahl

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > , " varun_trvd "

> > >

> > > > <varun_trvd@ > wrote:

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Respected Umesh ji,

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > My views on the issues you have raised.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > [ 1 ] Lal Kitab varshphal sarini :

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > In traditional vedic Jyotish there are quite a few

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > methods prevalent for working out the Varshphal

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > kundali. The Lal Kitab has suggested yet another

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > method. Therefore there is nothing unusual or

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > surprising about the method.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > The major question is what could have been the

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > logic or the arithmetic applied to generate the table.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > We know that unless there was some formula the

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > table could not have been generated. We do not

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > know the formula as yet. But sure one day the

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > formula would be known. Till such time the formula

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > used is found out, let us not treat the sarini as some

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > thing super natural. There is nothing mystical or

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > super natural about it. It is an ordinary table; there are

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > hundreds of such tables used in the traditional astrology

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > [ 2 ] For sun + mars the book says :

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > This is simple to explain, have a look at what

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > constitutes these two planets.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Mars = sun + mercury

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Sun = mercury + venus

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > it is natural that this combination will not be

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > conducive for moon.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > [ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says :

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Ketu mande ho madad guru ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Here Jupiter is used to strengthen ketu. There is

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > strengthening another friendly planet.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > With great respect and regards,

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

> Dr. Shiv Dev Kalsi,

> Jyotish Rishi (AIFAS)

> Consultant (Vedic Astrology)

>

 

 

 

 

-- Dr. Shiv Dev Kalsi,Jyotish Rishi (AIFAS)Consultant (Vedic Astrology)

[Guest guest]

Dear Varun Ji,Presently I am studying 1942 book. I have not come across any reference of bad effect on moon due to combination of " Sun +Venus " given on Page 271-72. I infer that you have some misconception about Bali ka bakra and How it occurs. I remember on of my friend's remarks that first of all we have to learn where & what is written in the book, then and then only we should try for the decoding chapter. I am quoting these lines keeping in mind my status of studies. Please don't consider as otherwise.

YoursShiv Dev KalsiOn Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 8:06 PM, varun_trvd <varun_trvd wrote:

 

 

 

 

Very respected Kalsi ji,

 

NO !

 

There is nothing funny about it.

 

The concept of Bali ka bakara [ scape goat ] is to understand the

reason why the significations of a planet could be suffering.

 

Like in the example given if the venus is depressed because of the

Sun then the significations of venus should be seen as suffering.

But suppose the significations of the Venus do not seem to be

suffering and instead it is the significations of the moon which are

suffering, and there is no apparent reason for the moon to suffer.

 

Then in this case this concept of scape goat will come very handy.

The astrologer would infer that it is the sun causing distress to

the Venus which in turn has passed on its calamity on to the moon.

The astrologer would then suggest an upaya to disassociate the sun

from the venus.

 

Had this concept not been there the astrologer might suggest upaya

for the moon which will be of no avail in this situation. No upaya

can eliminate the hardship of the moon except that the venus is

protected from the onslaught of the sun. And this upaya can not even

occur to the mind of the astrologer unless he is aware of the

concept of the scape goat.

 

With respect and naman,

 

Varun Trivedi

 

, " Shivdev Kalsi "

<shivdev.kalsi wrote:

>

> Dear Varun Ji,

> Is not an funny situation created with this concept.

> If mercury is threatened he will pass on pressure to Venus.Now

Venus is

> threatened he will pass on to Moon. Now Moon will transfer the

wrath to

> Sun, Mars & Jupiter. What sun mars & Jupiter do ,they transfer the

load to

> Ketu.

> Ultimately, Ketu will be the sufferer.

> Then why moon will suffer.

> In my view, it shall be treated as a rule of this combination.

Answer will

> come in due course of studies.

> Yours

> Shiv Dev Kalsi

>

> On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 11:46 AM, varun_trvd <varun_trvd

wrote:

>

> > Respected Yograj ji,

> >

> > This is exactly what I had said. Moon can be a bali ka bakra.

> >

> >

> > " Ab Budh ka khali chakkar Suraj ki madad se shukkar ko barbad

> > > kar dega. " LK-1952, page-923).

> >

> > our interpretation is : Once the venus is threatened , the Venus

> > might pass on its musibat onto the moon because the venus has

kept

> > the moon as his escape goat.

> >

> > Pandit didn't have to mention the fact that even the moon could

be

> > adversely affected for the simple reason that he had faith on the

> > common sense of the reader.In the situation you have enumerated,

> > suppose there are no perceptible effects on the venus and instead

> > the effects are noticed on the moon, then wouldn't you infer that

> > here the venus has passed on his musibat to the moon.

> >

> > For us trying to find out logic and rationale behind the

statements

> > of the book is not an exercise into waham. On the contrary it is

an

> > effort to establish the scientific credentials of the Lal Kitab.

> >

> > May be our perceptions are different.

> >

> > With respect and great regards,

> >

> >

> > Varun Trivedi

> >

> > <%

40>,

> > " Yograj Prabhakar "

> > <yr_prabhakar@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Varun Ji

> > >

> > > You are free to understand the situation as per your

convenience

> > > and understanding. But I am not convinced with the logic you

> > > have given by using the Masnooyi technique.

> > >

> > > Using this technique of Masnooyi, Antar Masnooyi and

Pratayantar

> > > Masnooyi may look adventurous, but it must be used in the right

> > > context. You cannot use this thing everywhere. What each

> > > masnooyi planet represent, how it will work and what are the

> > > areas of their effects are clearly mentioned in Lal kitab.

> > >

> > > As far as the combination of Sun+Mercury+Venus is concerned. It

> > > is clearly mentioned that:

> > > " Ab Budh ka khali chakkar Suraj ki madad se shukkar ko barbad

> > > kar dega. " LK-1952, page-923).

> > >

> > > And Pundit ji too recommended remedy for Sun+Mer+Ven(page no.

925,

> > > first 6 lines) not Chandar. Why Pundit ji did not considered

the

> > > Qurbani ka Bakra concept? What could be the possible reason?

Why

> > > Shukkar is unable to pass on the bad effects on Chandar in this

> > > combination? why Chandar is not at all affected?

> > >

> > > There maybe a few things left on readers own intelligence, but

we

> > must

> > > not forget that:

> > > " ..... " Farzee manmaani ya Manghadat baat Veham paida karegi,

aur

> > > Veham ka ilaaz shayad hi kahin milta hoga. " (LK-1952, page 6,

> > > Juz-5)

> > >

> > >

> > > Respectfully

> > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > <%

40>,

> > " varun_trvd "

> > > <varun_trvd@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Respected Yograj ji,

> > > >

> > > > This is how we have understood the problem.

> > > >

> > > > May be you have a different approach which

> > > >

> > > > we all would love to hear about.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > If the sun gets associated with the combination

> > > >

> > > > of mercury and venus, it will make the combination

> > > >

> > > > malefic. The book says:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Uttam barabar asar dono ka, drishti ravi na karata jo

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > [ 1952 urdu ed : page 856 line #4 ]

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Therefore if in a kundali mercury and venus are

> > > >

> > > > together and if they get associated with the sun in

> > > >

> > > > any capacity, then moon will get the brunt. Moon

> > > >

> > > > will be the ultimate bali ka bakara.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > {In the equation I had worked out for sun+ mars,

> > > >

> > > > sun itself is one of the components of that break up.}

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Whether this has been specifically mentioned in the

> > > >

> > > > book or not is a different matter. Most of the things

> > > >

> > > > have been left to the intelligence of the reader. They

> > > >

> > > > should use deductive logic to get at the conclusion.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > This is how we have understood it. May be you have

> > > >

> > > > got a different understanding. We would love to hear

> > > >

> > > > your views too on both these issues : Mars + sun and

> > > >

> > > > the moon getting affected; and mercury + venus and

> > > >

> > > > no mention of moon getting affected.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > With respect and regards,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

<%

40>,

> > Yograj Prabhakar

> > > > <yr_prabhakar@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Varun Ji

> > > > >

> > > > > For Sun+Mars You have said :

> > > > >

> > > > > Mars = sun + mercury

> > > > > Sun = mercury + venus

> > > > >

> > > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury and venus ,

both

> > enemies

> > > > of the moon.Therefore it is natural that this combination

will

> > not be

> > > > conducive for moon.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > My question is If Mercury and Venus (as Masnooyi

constituents)

> > are

> > > > responsible for making Moon weak In Sun+Mar combination, then

> > why the

> > > > same condition is not applicable in Mercury+Venus

combination in

> > the

> > > > chart? Why it is specially mentioned in the Sun+Mars

combination

> > only?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Respectfully

> > > > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > --- On Sun, 6/22/08, varun_trvd varun_trvd@ wrote:

> > > > > varun_trvd varun_trvd@

> > > > > LK discussion group Re:Devising the form of an

> > upaya / Pt.

> > > > Umesh Sharma ji

> > > > >

<%

40>

> > > > > Sunday, June 22, 2008, 10:56 PM

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Respected finn saheb,

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Thank you so much for adding a new perspective to the

> > explanation.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes, you are right; this is the reason why taking the help

of

> > > > >

> > > > > jupiter has been suggested.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > , " Finn

Wandahl "

> > > > >

> > > > > <finn.wandahl@ ...> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Varun Trivedi,

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >>...[ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says: " Ketu mande ho

> > madad

> > > > >

> > > > > guru

> > > > >

> > > > > > ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho " . Here Jupiter is used

to

> > > > >

> > > > > strengthen

> > > > >

> > > > > > ketu. There is nothing unusual in that. This is a very

common

> > > > >

> > > > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

> > > > >

> > > > > strengthening

> > > > >

> > > > > > another friendly planet...<<

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > Sure, this is a sound explanation. But perhaps there is

more

> > to

> > > > >

> > > > > it. an

> > > > >

> > > > > > additional explanation could be that Ketu is debilitated

in

> > the 3rd

> > > > >

> > > > > > house, and therefore Jupiter could be suggested to

strengten

> > Ketu,

> > > > >

> > > > > > because Jupiter rules the 9th house (Sagittarius) where

Ketu

> > is

> > > > >

> > > > > > exalted. This way exaltation would undo debilitation, so

to

> > speak.

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > :-)

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > Finn Wandahl

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > @.

com, " varun_trvd "

> > > > >

> > > > > > <varun_trvd@ > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > Respected Umesh ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > My views on the issues you have raised.

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > [ 1 ] Lal Kitab varshphal sarini :

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > In traditional vedic Jyotish there are quite a few

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > methods prevalent for working out the Varshphal

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > kundali. The Lal Kitab has suggested yet another

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > method. Therefore there is nothing unusual or

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > surprising about the method.

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > The major question is what could have been the

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > logic or the arithmetic applied to generate the table.

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > We know that unless there was some formula the

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > table could not have been generated. We do not

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > know the formula as yet. But sure one day the

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > formula would be known. Till such time the formula

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > used is found out, let us not treat the sarini as some

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > thing super natural. There is nothing mystical or

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > super natural about it. It is an ordinary table; there

are

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > hundreds of such tables used in the traditional

astrology

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > [ 2 ] For sun + mars the book says :

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > This is simple to explain, have a look at what

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > constitutes these two planets.

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > Mars = sun + mercury

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > Sun = mercury + venus

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > it is natural that this combination will not be

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > conducive for moon.

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > [ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says :

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > Ketu mande ho madad guru ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota

ho

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > Here Jupiter is used to strengthen ketu. There is

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used

for

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > strengthening another friendly planet.

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > With great respect and regards,

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

> Dr. Shiv Dev Kalsi,

> Jyotish Rishi (AIFAS)

> Consultant (Vedic Astrology)

>

 

 

 

 

-- Dr. Shiv Dev Kalsi,Jyotish Rishi (AIFAS)Consultant (Vedic Astrology)

[Guest guest]

Very respected Kalsi ji,

 

I would advise you to read page #272-73 of 1942 urdu edition. You

will come across at least four or five references where it is said

that if the sun joins the mars it will be a benefic, where ever

there is the sun the mars will always have the effect of mangal

shubh and so on.

 

Therefore when I said that the Mars in the company of the Sun will

be a shubh mars, I am perfectly justified and accurate.

 

I read the lines you had quoted, yes there is some cofusion. I

believe it could be because of the placement of a bracket or that

some word might be missing.

 

With respect and naman,

 

Varun Trivedi

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, " Shivdev Kalsi "

<shivdev.kalsi wrote:

>

> Dear Varun Ji,

> Please Go by Heading 'Sooraj Mangal " Line 8 & 9 of Page 1942 Book.

I

> reproduce these line for your reference:

> " Lekin Mangal Bud ko sooraj kee madad yaa Mangal Bud se sooraj

kaa taaluq

> mandey haal aur kareebi rishtedaaron kee mauten vagairah. "

> How do you interprete these lines in combination to your reply.

> Yours

> Shiv Dev Kalsi

>

>

> On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 8:11 PM, varun_trvd <varun_trvd wrote:

>

> > Very respected Kalsi ji,

> >

> > NO !

> >

> > Mars can not be taken to mean sun + Saturn because they are the

> > constituents of ashubh Mars.

> > And in the company of a Sun, the mars can not be ashubh [ bud ]

> >

> > With respect and naman,

> >

> > Varun Trivedi

> >

> > <%

40>,

> > " Shivdev Kalsi "

> > <shivdev.kalsi@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Varun Ji,

> > > You have taken Sun + Mars equation as

> > > Mars = sun + mercury

> > > Sun = mercury + Venus

> > > This can also be taken as

> > > Mars = Sun + Saturn

> > > Sun = Mercury + Venus

> > > Yours

> > > Shiv Dev Kalsi

> > >

> > > On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 9:04 PM, varun_trvd <varun_trvd@>

wrote:

> > >

> > > > Respected Yograj ji,

> > > >

> > > > This is how we have understood the problem.

> > > >

> > > > May be you have a different approach which

> > > >

> > > > we all would love to hear about.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > If the sun gets associated with the combination

> > > >

> > > > of mercury and venus, it will make the combination

> > > >

> > > > malefic. The book says:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Uttam barabar asar dono ka, drishti ravi na karata jo

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > [ 1952 urdu ed : page 856 line #4 ]

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Therefore if in a kundali mercury and venus are

> > > >

> > > > together and if they get associated with the sun in

> > > >

> > > > any capacity, then moon will get the brunt. Moon

> > > >

> > > > will be the ultimate bali ka bakara.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > {In the equation I had worked out for sun+ mars,

> > > >

> > > > sun itself is one of the components of that break up.}

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Whether this has been specifically mentioned in the

> > > >

> > > > book or not is a different matter. Most of the things

> > > >

> > > > have been left to the intelligence of the reader. They

> > > >

> > > > should use deductive logic to get at the conclusion.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > This is how we have understood it. May be you have

> > > >

> > > > got a different understanding. We would love to hear

> > > >

> > > > your views too on both these issues : Mars + sun and

> > > >

> > > > the moon getting affected; and mercury + venus and

> > > >

> > > > no mention of moon getting affected.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > With respect and regards,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > --- In

<%

40>,

> > Yograj Prabhakar

> > > > <yr_prabhakar@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Varun Ji

> > > > >

> > > > > For Sun+Mars You have said :

> > > > >

> > > > > Mars = sun + mercury

> > > > > Sun = mercury + venus

> > > > >

> > > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury and venus ,

both

> > enemies of

> > > > the moon.Therefore it is natural that this combination will

not

> > be conducive

> > > > for moon.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > My question is If Mercury and Venus (as Masnooyi

constituents)

> > are

> > > > responsible for making Moon weak In Sun+Mar combination, then

> > why the same

> > > > condition is not applicable in Mercury+Venus combination in

the

> > chart? Why

> > > > it is specially mentioned in the Sun+Mars combination only?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Respectfully

> > > > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > --- On Sun, 6/22/08, varun_trvd varun_trvd@ wrote:

> > > > > varun_trvd varun_trvd@

> > > >

> > > > > LK discussion group Re:Devising the form of an

> > upaya / Pt. Umesh

> > > > Sharma ji

> > > > > To:

<%

40>

> > > > > Sunday, June 22, 2008, 10:56 PM

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Respected finn saheb,

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Thank you so much for adding a new perspective to the

> > explanation.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes, you are right; this is the reason why taking the help

of

> > > > >

> > > > > jupiter has been suggested.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > , " Finn

Wandahl "

> > > > >

> > > > > <finn.wandahl@ ...> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Varun Trivedi,

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >>...[ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says: " Ketu mande ho

> > madad

> > > > >

> > > > > guru

> > > > >

> > > > > > ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho " . Here Jupiter is used

to

> > > > >

> > > > > strengthen

> > > > >

> > > > > > ketu. There is nothing unusual in that. This is a very

common

> > > > >

> > > > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

> > > > >

> > > > > strengthening

> > > > >

> > > > > > another friendly planet...<<

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > Sure, this is a sound explanation. But perhaps there is

more

> > to

> > > > >

> > > > > it. an

> > > > >

> > > > > > additional explanation could be that Ketu is debilitated

in

> > the 3rd

> > > > >

> > > > > > house, and therefore Jupiter could be suggested to

strengten

> > Ketu,

> > > > >

> > > > > > because Jupiter rules the 9th house (Sagittarius) where

Ketu

> > is

> > > > >

> > > > > > exalted. This way exaltation would undo debilitation, so

to

> > speak.

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > :-)

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > Finn Wandahl

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > @.

com, " varun_trvd "

> > > > >

> > > > > > <varun_trvd@ > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > Respected Umesh ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > My views on the issues you have raised.

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > [ 1 ] Lal Kitab varshphal sarini :

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > In traditional vedic Jyotish there are quite a few

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > methods prevalent for working out the Varshphal

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > kundali. The Lal Kitab has suggested yet another

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > method. Therefore there is nothing unusual or

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > surprising about the method.

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > The major question is what could have been the

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > logic or the arithmetic applied to generate the table.

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > We know that unless there was some formula the

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > table could not have been generated. We do not

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > know the formula as yet. But sure one day the

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > formula would be known. Till such time the formula

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > used is found out, let us not treat the sarini as some

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > thing super natural. There is nothing mystical or

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > super natural about it. It is an ordinary table; there

are

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > hundreds of such tables used in the traditional

astrology

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > [ 2 ] For sun + mars the book says :

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > This is simple to explain, have a look at what

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > constitutes these two planets.

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > Mars = sun + mercury

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > Sun = mercury + venus

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > it is natural that this combination will not be

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > conducive for moon.

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > [ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says :

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > Ketu mande ho madad guru ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota

ho

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > Here Jupiter is used to strengthen ketu. There is

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used

for

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > strengthening another friendly planet.

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > With great respect and regards,

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > --

> > > Dr. Shiv Dev Kalsi,

> > > Jyotish Rishi (AIFAS)

> > > Consultant (Vedic Astrology)

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

> Dr. Shiv Dev Kalsi,

> Jyotish Rishi (AIFAS)

> Consultant (Vedic Astrology)

>

[Guest guest]

Very respected Kalsi ji,

 

I have absolutely no misconception about the concept of Bali ka

bakara. I know what I am saying.

 

As for Sun + Venus:

 

Let me remind you what I have said :

 

> > Like in the example given if the venus is depressed because of

the

> > Sun then the significations of venus should be seen as suffering.

> > But suppose the significations of the Venus do not seem to be

> > suffering and instead it is the significations of the moon which

are

> > suffering, and there is no apparent reason for the moon to

suffer.

> >

> > Then in this case this concept of scape goat will come very

handy.

> > The astrologer would infer that it is the sun causing distress to

> > the Venus which in turn has passed on its calamity on to the

moon.

> > The astrologer would then suggest an upaya to disassociate the

sun

> > from the venus.

 

I had said that if there are no perceptible ill effects on the Venus

and instead the ill effects are noticed on the moon, at the same

time there are no reasons for the moon to suffer, then the

astrologer can infer that it could be the transferred effect of the

venus on its scape goat moon.

 

I never said that the sun + venus combination per se will have

adverse effects on the moon.

 

With respect and naman,

 

Varun Trivedi

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, " Shivdev Kalsi "

<shivdev.kalsi wrote:

>

> Dear Varun Ji,

> Presently I am studying 1942 book. I have not come across any

reference of

> bad effect on moon due to combination of " Sun +Venus " given on

Page 271-72.

> I infer that you have some misconception about Bali ka bakra and

How it

> occurs. I remember on of my friend's remarks that first of all we

have to

> learn where & what is written in the book, then and then only we

should try

> for the decoding chapter. I am quoting these lines keeping in mind

my status

> of studies. Please don't consider as otherwise.

> Yours

>

> Shiv Dev Kalsi

> On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 8:06 PM, varun_trvd <varun_trvd wrote:

>

> > Very respected Kalsi ji,

> >

> > NO !

> >

> > There is nothing funny about it.

> >

> > The concept of Bali ka bakara [ scape goat ] is to understand the

> > reason why the significations of a planet could be suffering.

> >

> > Like in the example given if the venus is depressed because of

the

> > Sun then the significations of venus should be seen as suffering.

> > But suppose the significations of the Venus do not seem to be

> > suffering and instead it is the significations of the moon which

are

> > suffering, and there is no apparent reason for the moon to

suffer.

> >

> > Then in this case this concept of scape goat will come very

handy.

> > The astrologer would infer that it is the sun causing distress to

> > the Venus which in turn has passed on its calamity on to the

moon.

> > The astrologer would then suggest an upaya to disassociate the

sun

> > from the venus.

> >

> > Had this concept not been there the astrologer might suggest

upaya

> > for the moon which will be of no avail in this situation. No

upaya

> > can eliminate the hardship of the moon except that the venus is

> > protected from the onslaught of the sun. And this upaya can not

even

> > occur to the mind of the astrologer unless he is aware of the

> > concept of the scape goat.

> >

> > With respect and naman,

> >

> > Varun Trivedi

> >

> > <%

40>,

> > " Shivdev Kalsi "

> > <shivdev.kalsi@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Varun Ji,

> > > Is not an funny situation created with this concept.

> > > If mercury is threatened he will pass on pressure to Venus.Now

> > Venus is

> > > threatened he will pass on to Moon. Now Moon will transfer the

> > wrath to

> > > Sun, Mars & Jupiter. What sun mars & Jupiter do ,they transfer

the

> > load to

> > > Ketu.

> > > Ultimately, Ketu will be the sufferer.

> > > Then why moon will suffer.

> > > In my view, it shall be treated as a rule of this combination.

> > Answer will

> > > come in due course of studies.

> > > Yours

> > > Shiv Dev Kalsi

> > >

> > > On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 11:46 AM, varun_trvd <varun_trvd@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > > Respected Yograj ji,

> > > >

> > > > This is exactly what I had said. Moon can be a bali ka bakra.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > " Ab Budh ka khali chakkar Suraj ki madad se shukkar ko barbad

> > > > > kar dega. " LK-1952, page-923).

> > > >

> > > > our interpretation is : Once the venus is threatened , the

Venus

> > > > might pass on its musibat onto the moon because the venus has

> > kept

> > > > the moon as his escape goat.

> > > >

> > > > Pandit didn't have to mention the fact that even the moon

could

> > be

> > > > adversely affected for the simple reason that he had faith

on the

> > > > common sense of the reader.In the situation you have

enumerated,

> > > > suppose there are no perceptible effects on the venus and

instead

> > > > the effects are noticed on the moon, then wouldn't you infer

that

> > > > here the venus has passed on his musibat to the moon.

> > > >

> > > > For us trying to find out logic and rationale behind the

> > statements

> > > > of the book is not an exercise into waham. On the contrary

it is

> > an

> > > > effort to establish the scientific credentials of the Lal

Kitab.

> > > >

> > > > May be our perceptions are different.

> > > >

> > > > With respect and great regards,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > >

> > > > --- In

<%

40>

> > <%

> > 40>,

> >

> > > > " Yograj Prabhakar "

> > > > <yr_prabhakar@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Varun Ji

> > > > >

> > > > > You are free to understand the situation as per your

> > convenience

> > > > > and understanding. But I am not convinced with the logic

you

> > > > > have given by using the Masnooyi technique.

> > > > >

> > > > > Using this technique of Masnooyi, Antar Masnooyi and

> > Pratayantar

> > > > > Masnooyi may look adventurous, but it must be used in the

right

> > > > > context. You cannot use this thing everywhere. What each

> > > > > masnooyi planet represent, how it will work and what are

the

> > > > > areas of their effects are clearly mentioned in Lal kitab.

> > > > >

> > > > > As far as the combination of Sun+Mercury+Venus is

concerned. It

> > > > > is clearly mentioned that:

> > > > > " Ab Budh ka khali chakkar Suraj ki madad se shukkar ko

barbad

> > > > > kar dega. " LK-1952, page-923).

> > > > >

> > > > > And Pundit ji too recommended remedy for Sun+Mer+Ven(page

no.

> > 925,

> > > > > first 6 lines) not Chandar. Why Pundit ji did not

considered

> > the

> > > > > Qurbani ka Bakra concept? What could be the possible

reason?

> > Why

> > > > > Shukkar is unable to pass on the bad effects on Chandar in

this

> > > > > combination? why Chandar is not at all affected?

> > > > >

> > > > > There maybe a few things left on readers own intelligence,

but

> > we

> > > > must

> > > > > not forget that:

> > > > > " ..... " Farzee manmaani ya Manghadat baat Veham paida

karegi,

> > aur

> > > > > Veham ka ilaaz shayad hi kahin milta hoga. " (LK-1952, page

6,

> > > > > Juz-5)

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Respectfully

> > > > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > --- In

<%

40>

> > <%

> > 40>,

> >

> > > > " varun_trvd "

> > > > > <varun_trvd@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Respected Yograj ji,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This is how we have understood the problem.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > May be you have a different approach which

> > > > > >

> > > > > > we all would love to hear about.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If the sun gets associated with the combination

> > > > > >

> > > > > > of mercury and venus, it will make the combination

> > > > > >

> > > > > > malefic. The book says:

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Uttam barabar asar dono ka, drishti ravi na karata jo

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > [ 1952 urdu ed : page 856 line #4 ]

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Therefore if in a kundali mercury and venus are

> > > > > >

> > > > > > together and if they get associated with the sun in

> > > > > >

> > > > > > any capacity, then moon will get the brunt. Moon

> > > > > >

> > > > > > will be the ultimate bali ka bakara.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > {In the equation I had worked out for sun+ mars,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > sun itself is one of the components of that break up.}

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Whether this has been specifically mentioned in the

> > > > > >

> > > > > > book or not is a different matter. Most of the things

> > > > > >

> > > > > > have been left to the intelligence of the reader. They

> > > > > >

> > > > > > should use deductive logic to get at the conclusion.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This is how we have understood it. May be you have

> > > > > >

> > > > > > got a different understanding. We would love to hear

> > > > > >

> > > > > > your views too on both these issues : Mars + sun and

> > > > > >

> > > > > > the moon getting affected; and mercury + venus and

> > > > > >

> > > > > > no mention of moon getting affected.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > With respect and regards,

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --- In

> > <%

40>

> > <%

> > 40>,

> >

> > > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > > > > > <yr_prabhakar@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Varun Ji

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > For Sun+Mars You have said :

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Mars = sun + mercury

> > > > > > > Sun = mercury + venus

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury and

venus ,

> > both

> > > > enemies

> > > > > > of the moon.Therefore it is natural that this combination

> > will

> > > > not be

> > > > > > conducive for moon.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My question is If Mercury and Venus (as Masnooyi

> > constituents)

> > > > are

> > > > > > responsible for making Moon weak In Sun+Mar combination,

then

> > > > why the

> > > > > > same condition is not applicable in Mercury+Venus

> > combination in

> > > > the

> > > > > > chart? Why it is specially mentioned in the Sun+Mars

> > combination

> > > > only?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Respectfully

> > > > > > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --- On Sun, 6/22/08, varun_trvd varun_trvd@ wrote:

> > > > > > > varun_trvd varun_trvd@

> > > > > > > LK discussion group Re:Devising the form of an

> > > > upaya / Pt.

> > > > > > Umesh Sharma ji

> > > > > > > To:

> > <%

40>

> > <%

> > 40>

> >

> > > > > > > Sunday, June 22, 2008, 10:56 PM

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Respected finn saheb,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thank you so much for adding a new perspective to the

> > > > explanation.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Yes, you are right; this is the reason why taking the

help

> > of

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > jupiter has been suggested.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > , " Finn

> > Wandahl "

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > <finn.wandahl@ ...> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Varun Trivedi,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >>...[ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says: " Ketu

mande ho

> > > > madad

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > guru

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho " . Here Jupiter is

used

> > to

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > strengthen

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ketu. There is nothing unusual in that. This is a

very

> > common

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used

for

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > strengthening

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > another friendly planet...<<

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Sure, this is a sound explanation. But perhaps there

is

> > more

> > > > to

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > it. an

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > additional explanation could be that Ketu is

debilitated

> > in

> > > > the 3rd

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > house, and therefore Jupiter could be suggested to

> > strengten

> > > > Ketu,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > because Jupiter rules the 9th house (Sagittarius)

where

> > Ketu

> > > > is

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > exalted. This way exaltation would undo

debilitation, so

> > to

> > > > speak.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > :-)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Finn Wandahl

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > @.

> > com, " varun_trvd "

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > <varun_trvd@ > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Respected Umesh ji,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > My views on the issues you have raised.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > [ 1 ] Lal Kitab varshphal sarini :

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > In traditional vedic Jyotish there are quite a few

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > methods prevalent for working out the Varshphal

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > kundali. The Lal Kitab has suggested yet another

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > method. Therefore there is nothing unusual or

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > surprising about the method.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > The major question is what could have been the

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > logic or the arithmetic applied to generate the

table.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > We know that unless there was some formula the

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > table could not have been generated. We do not

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > know the formula as yet. But sure one day the

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > formula would be known. Till such time the formula

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > used is found out, let us not treat the sarini as

some

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > thing super natural. There is nothing mystical or

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > super natural about it. It is an ordinary table;

there

> > are

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > hundreds of such tables used in the traditional

> > astrology

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > [ 2 ] For sun + mars the book says :

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > This is simple to explain, have a look at what

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > constitutes these two planets.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Mars = sun + mercury

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Sun = mercury + venus

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > it is natural that this combination will not be

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > conducive for moon.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > [ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says :

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Ketu mande ho madad guru ki, tilak kesar ka bhala

hota

> > ho

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Here Jupiter is used to strengthen ketu. There is

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is

used

> > for

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > strengthening another friendly planet.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > With great respect and regards,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > --

> > > Dr. Shiv Dev Kalsi,

> > > Jyotish Rishi (AIFAS)

> > > Consultant (Vedic Astrology)

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

> Dr. Shiv Dev Kalsi,

> Jyotish Rishi (AIFAS)

> Consultant (Vedic Astrology)

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Gill SahibMy apprehension or disagreement is not baseless. Read the grammar of Lal Kitab carefully, you will find a very unique thing about Suraj+Mangal combination. The Sun+Mars combination, irrespective of its placement shall give result of its combination in the 1st house the chart. If you are aware of the Grehphal/Rashiphal concept you will find that the masnooyi technique used by Mr. Varun is not at all applicable in this case since both sun and Mars are considered as posited in the 1st house of the chart. So that the "emergence" of Shukkar+Budh is totally out of context. As far as transferring the bad effect by Mer+Ven is on Moon is concerned, my question is why Moon will not tranfer the bads effect on its Quarbani ka Bakra?SincerelyYograj Prabhakar--- On Wed, 6/25/08, gill_hs2005

<gill_hs2005 wrote:gill_hs2005 <gill_hs2005LK discussion group Re:Devising the form of an upaya / SUN+MARS Date: Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 6:35 PM

 

Dear Prabhakar ji,

 

It is alright if you do not agree to the logic given by shri Varun

ji. But then could you give your alternate logic to –

A)why would be manda asar on moon if the sun and mars are together?

B)why shukkar apani bala bali ke bakare chanderama par nahi dalega

if venus and mercury ka sath sooraj se ho jaye to?

 

Sincerely

 

HS Gill

 

, "Yograj Prabhakar"

<yr_prabhakar@ ...> wrote:

>

> Dear Varun Ji

>

> You are free to understand the situation as per your convenience

> and understanding. But I am not convinced with the logic you

> have given by using the Masnooyi technique.

>

> Using this technique of Masnooyi, Antar Masnooyi and Pratayantar

> Masnooyi may look adventurous, but it must be used in the right

> context. You cannot use this thing everywhere. What each

> masnooyi planet represent, how it will work and what are the

> areas of their effects are clearly mentioned in Lal kitab.

>

> As far as the combination of Sun+Mercury+ Venus is concerned. It

> is clearly mentioned that:

> "Ab Budh ka khali chakkar Suraj ki madad se shukkar ko barbad

> kar dega." LK-1952, page-923).

>

> And Pundit ji too recommended remedy for Sun+Mer+Ven( page no. 925,

> first 6 lines) not Chandar. Why Pundit ji did not considered the

> Qurbani ka Bakra concept? What could be the possible reason? Why

> Shukkar is unable to pass on the bad effects on Chandar in this

> combination? why Chandar is not at all affected?

>

> There maybe a few things left on readers own intelligence, but we

must

> not forget that:

> "....."Farzee manmaani ya Manghadat baat Veham paida karegi, aur

> Veham ka ilaaz shayad hi kahin milta hoga." (LK-1952, page 6,

> Juz-5)

>

>

> Respectfully

> Yograj Prabhakar

>

>

>

>

> , "varun_trvd"

> <varun_trvd@ > wrote:

> >

> >

> > Respected Yograj ji,

> >

> > This is how we have understood the problem.

> >

> > May be you have a different approach which

> >

> > we all would love to hear about.

> >

> >

> >

> > If the sun gets associated with the combination

> >

> > of mercury and venus, it will make the combination

> >

> > malefic. The book says:

> >

> >

> >

> > Uttam barabar asar dono ka, drishti ravi na karata jo

> >

> >

> >

> > [ 1952 urdu ed : page 856 line #4 ]

> >

> >

> >

> > Therefore if in a kundali mercury and venus are

> >

> > together and if they get associated with the sun in

> >

> > any capacity, then moon will get the brunt. Moon

> >

> > will be the ultimate bali ka bakara.

> >

> >

> >

> > {In the equation I had worked out for sun+ mars,

> >

> > sun itself is one of the components of that break up.}

> >

> >

> >

> > Whether this has been specifically mentioned in the

> >

> > book or not is a different matter. Most of the things

> >

> > have been left to the intelligence of the reader. They

> >

> > should use deductive logic to get at the conclusion.

> >

> >

> >

> > This is how we have understood it. May be you have

> >

> > got a different understanding. We would love to hear

> >

> > your views too on both these issues : Mars + sun and

> >

> > the moon getting affected; and mercury + venus and

> >

> > no mention of moon getting affected.

> >

> >

> >

> > With respect and regards,

> >

> >

> >

> > Varun Trivedi

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , Yograj Prabhakar

> > <yr_prabhakar@ > wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Varun Ji

> > >

> > > For Sun+Mars You have said :

> > >

> > > Mars = sun + mercury

> > > Sun = mercury + venus

> > >

> > > If you notice this combination is all mercury and venus , both

enemies

> > of the moon.Therefore it is natural that this combination will

not be

> > conducive for moon.

> > >

> > >

> > > My question is If Mercury and Venus (as Masnooyi constituents)

are

> > responsible for making Moon weak In Sun+Mar combination, then

why the

> > same condition is not applicable in Mercury+Venus combination in

the

> > chart? Why it is specially mentioned in the Sun+Mars combination

only?

> > >

> > >

> > > Respectfully

> > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > >

> > >

> > > --- On Sun, 6/22/08, varun_trvd varun_trvd@ wrote:

> > > varun_trvd varun_trvd@

> > > LK discussion group Re:Devising the form of an

upaya / Pt.

> > Umesh Sharma ji

> > >

> > > Sunday, June 22, 2008, 10:56 PM

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Respected finn saheb,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Thank you so much for adding a new perspective to the

explanation.

> > >

> > > Yes, you are right; this is the reason why taking the help of

> > >

> > > jupiter has been suggested.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Varun Trivedi

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > , "Finn Wandahl"

> > >

> > > <finn.wandahl@ ...> wrote:

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Dear Varun Trivedi,

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > >>...[ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says: "Ketu mande ho

madad

> > >

> > > guru

> > >

> > > > ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho". Here Jupiter is used to

> > >

> > > strengthen

> > >

> > > > ketu. There is nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

> > >

> > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

> > >

> > > strengthening

> > >

> > > > another friendly planet...<<

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Sure, this is a sound explanation. But perhaps there is more

to

> > >

> > > it. an

> > >

> > > > additional explanation could be that Ketu is debilitated in

the 3rd

> > >

> > > > house, and therefore Jupiter could be suggested to strengten

Ketu,

> > >

> > > > because Jupiter rules the 9th house (Sagittarius) where Ketu

is

> > >

> > > > exalted. This way exaltation would undo debilitation, so to

speak.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > :-)

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Finn Wandahl

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > , "varun_trvd"

> > >

> > > > <varun_trvd@ > wrote:

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Respected Umesh ji,

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > My views on the issues you have raised.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > [ 1 ] Lal Kitab varshphal sarini :

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > In traditional vedic Jyotish there are quite a few

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > methods prevalent for working out the Varshphal

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > kundali. The Lal Kitab has suggested yet another

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > method. Therefore there is nothing unusual or

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > surprising about the method.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > The major question is what could have been the

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > logic or the arithmetic applied to generate the table.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > We know that unless there was some formula the

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > table could not have been generated. We do not

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > know the formula as yet. But sure one day the

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > formula would be known. Till such time the formula

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > used is found out, let us not treat the sarini as some

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > thing super natural. There is nothing mystical or

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > super natural about it. It is an ordinary table; there are

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > hundreds of such tables used in the traditional astrology

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > [ 2 ] For sun + mars the book says :

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > This is simple to explain, have a look at what

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > constitutes these two planets.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Mars = sun + mercury

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Sun = mercury + venus

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > it is natural that this combination will not be

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > conducive for moon.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > [ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says :

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Ketu mande ho madad guru ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Here Jupiter is used to strengthen ketu. There is

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > strengthening another friendly planet.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > With great respect and regards,

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Mukhi JeePlease read the Suraj+Mangal combination carefully in the grammar portion. And read what special status is given to Suraj+Mangal combination. And also read carefully the results of this combination in the 1st house.If you are interested in Scientific approach you must use the 1-2-3-4 technique instead of using any arbitrary approach. If you feel some people (Lal kitabists) are not happy with you, why you should be worried? Once should continue with his endeavor instead of thinking about these petty things. Look at me, I often found my self as "Begani Shadi Mein Abdullah Deewana...." but I continue to express myself. I will continue to do so till I am not thrown away.SincerelyYograj Prabhakar --- On Wed, 6/25/08, girish_raheja <girish_raheja

wrote:girish_raheja <girish_rahejaLK discussion group Re:Devising the form of an upaya / SUN+MARS Date: Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 7:25 PM

 

Shri Yograj ji,

 

Scientific enquiry and scientific temper leads to the truth, it

dispels vaham. Resistance to it would perpetrate vaham. It is this

approach to shield and keep the book away from scientific scrutiny,

which reduced it to a book of tona-totkas. I know some lalkitabists

are not happy with the way the Lal Kitab is treated in this group.

If they are not, so be it. [ apologies to the moderator]

In your quote on farzee vaham you had missed out the words kitab ke

bagair. All discussions in this group have been within the limits of

the book. In no other Lal Kitab group the book has so often been

quoted as in this group; so much so we had to request the moderator

to give the page numbers from the Arun Sanhita also, because most of

us do not know how to read Urdu.

You can not call using Masnuyee concepts as adventurous simply

because you or others have not used the concept to understand the

logic behind the upaya. As a matter of fact it is for the first time

we learnt how to use this concept in this group. You might think it

as adventurous, but for us the young learners it is innovative. I

hope you know the difference of spirit between the two.

Shri Prabhakar ji, you have turned down the logic of shri Varun ji.

It is the easiest thing to do. Even I could turn around and say I do

not agree. But giving an alternative answer is what is expected if

you disagree. But you have not given your logic for those two

questions which Varun ji had given his logic for.

I hope now you will give your logic for the two questions Gill sahib

has asked.

 

Sincerely,

 

Girish Raheja

 

, "Yograj Prabhakar"

<yr_prabhakar@ ...> wrote:

>

> Dear Varun Ji

>

> You are free to understand the situation as per your convenience

> and understanding. But I am not convinced with the logic you

> have given by using the Masnooyi technique.

>

> Using this technique of Masnooyi, Antar Masnooyi and Pratayantar

> Masnooyi may look adventurous, but it must be used in the right

> context. You cannot use this thing everywhere. What each

> masnooyi planet represent, how it will work and what are the

> areas of their effects are clearly mentioned in Lal kitab.

>

> As far as the combination of Sun+Mercury+ Venus is concerned. It

> is clearly mentioned that:

> "Ab Budh ka khali chakkar Suraj ki madad se shukkar ko barbad

> kar dega." LK-1952, page-923).

>

> And Pundit ji too recommended remedy for Sun+Mer+Ven( page no. 925,

> first 6 lines) not Chandar. Why Pundit ji did not considered the

> Qurbani ka Bakra concept? What could be the possible reason? Why

> Shukkar is unable to pass on the bad effects on Chandar in this

> combination? why Chandar is not at all affected?

>

> There maybe a few things left on readers own intelligence, but we

must

> not forget that:

> "....."Farzee manmaani ya Manghadat baat Veham paida karegi, aur

> Veham ka ilaaz shayad hi kahin milta hoga." (LK-1952, page 6,

> Juz-5)

>

>

> Respectfully

> Yograj Prabhakar

>

>

>

>

> , "varun_trvd"

> <varun_trvd@ > wrote:

> >

> >

> > Respected Yograj ji,

> >

> > This is how we have understood the problem.

> >

> > May be you have a different approach which

> >

> > we all would love to hear about.

> >

> >

> >

> > If the sun gets associated with the combination

> >

> > of mercury and venus, it will make the combination

> >

> > malefic. The book says:

> >

> >

> >

> > Uttam barabar asar dono ka, drishti ravi na karata jo

> >

> >

> >

> > [ 1952 urdu ed : page 856 line #4 ]

> >

> >

> >

> > Therefore if in a kundali mercury and venus are

> >

> > together and if they get associated with the sun in

> >

> > any capacity, then moon will get the brunt. Moon

> >

> > will be the ultimate bali ka bakara.

> >

> >

> >

> > {In the equation I had worked out for sun+ mars,

> >

> > sun itself is one of the components of that break up.}

> >

> >

> >

> > Whether this has been specifically mentioned in the

> >

> > book or not is a different matter. Most of the things

> >

> > have been left to the intelligence of the reader. They

> >

> > should use deductive logic to get at the conclusion.

> >

> >

> >

> > This is how we have understood it. May be you have

> >

> > got a different understanding. We would love to hear

> >

> > your views too on both these issues : Mars + sun and

> >

> > the moon getting affected; and mercury + venus and

> >

> > no mention of moon getting affected.

> >

> >

> >

> > With respect and regards,

> >

> >

> >

> > Varun Trivedi

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , Yograj Prabhakar

> > <yr_prabhakar@ > wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Varun Ji

> > >

> > > For Sun+Mars You have said :

> > >

> > > Mars = sun + mercury

> > > Sun = mercury + venus

> > >

> > > If you notice this combination is all mercury and venus , both

enemies

> > of the moon.Therefore it is natural that this combination will

not be

> > conducive for moon.

> > >

> > >

> > > My question is If Mercury and Venus (as Masnooyi constituents)

are

> > responsible for making Moon weak In Sun+Mar combination, then

why the

> > same condition is not applicable in Mercury+Venus combination in

the

> > chart? Why it is specially mentioned in the Sun+Mars combination

only?

> > >

> > >

> > > Respectfully

> > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > >

> > >

> > > --- On Sun, 6/22/08, varun_trvd varun_trvd@ wrote:

> > > varun_trvd varun_trvd@

> > > LK discussion group Re:Devising the form of an

upaya / Pt.

> > Umesh Sharma ji

> > >

> > > Sunday, June 22, 2008, 10:56 PM

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Respected finn saheb,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Thank you so much for adding a new perspective to the

explanation.

> > >

> > > Yes, you are right; this is the reason why taking the help of

> > >

> > > jupiter has been suggested.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Varun Trivedi

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > , "Finn Wandahl"

> > >

> > > <finn.wandahl@ ...> wrote:

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Dear Varun Trivedi,

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > >>...[ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says: "Ketu mande ho

madad

> > >

> > > guru

> > >

> > > > ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho". Here Jupiter is used to

> > >

> > > strengthen

> > >

> > > > ketu. There is nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

> > >

> > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

> > >

> > > strengthening

> > >

> > > > another friendly planet...<<

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Sure, this is a sound explanation. But perhaps there is more

to

> > >

> > > it. an

> > >

> > > > additional explanation could be that Ketu is debilitated in

the 3rd

> > >

> > > > house, and therefore Jupiter could be suggested to strengten

Ketu,

> > >

> > > > because Jupiter rules the 9th house (Sagittarius) where Ketu

is

> > >

> > > > exalted. This way exaltation would undo debilitation, so to

speak.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > :-)

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Finn Wandahl

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > , "varun_trvd"

> > >

> > > > <varun_trvd@ > wrote:

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Respected Umesh ji,

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > My views on the issues you have raised.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > [ 1 ] Lal Kitab varshphal sarini :

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > In traditional vedic Jyotish there are quite a few

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > methods prevalent for working out the Varshphal

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > kundali. The Lal Kitab has suggested yet another

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > method. Therefore there is nothing unusual or

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > surprising about the method.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > The major question is what could have been the

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > logic or the arithmetic applied to generate the table.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > We know that unless there was some formula the

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > table could not have been generated. We do not

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > know the formula as yet. But sure one day the

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > formula would be known. Till such time the formula

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > used is found out, let us not treat the sarini as some

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > thing super natural. There is nothing mystical or

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > super natural about it. It is an ordinary table; there are

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > hundreds of such tables used in the traditional astrology

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > [ 2 ] For sun + mars the book says :

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > This is simple to explain, have a look at what

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > constitutes these two planets.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Mars = sun + mercury

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Sun = mercury + venus

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > it is natural that this combination will not be

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > conducive for moon.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > [ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says :

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Ketu mande ho madad guru ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Here Jupiter is used to strengthen ketu. There is

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > strengthening another friendly planet.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > With great respect and regards,

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Prabhakar ji,

 

I had asked you two straight simple questions. You have not answered

them instead have gone around beating the bush. This is not how a

discussion is done. Therefore I doubt that your apprehensions and

disagreement have any basis. You seem to be disagreeing just for the

sake of it.

 

Sincerely,

 

HS Gill

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, Yograj Prabhakar

<yr_prabhakar wrote:

>

> Dear Gill Sahib

>

> My apprehension or disagreement is not baseless. Read the grammar

of Lal Kitab carefully, you will find a very unique thing about

Suraj+Mangal combination. The Sun+Mars combination, irrespective of

its placement shall give result of its combination in the 1st house

the chart.

>

> If you are aware of the Grehphal/Rashiphal concept you will find

that the masnooyi technique used by Mr. Varun is not at all

applicable in this case since both sun and Mars are considered as

posited in the 1st house of the chart. So that the " emergence " of

Shukkar+Budh is totally out of context.

>

> As far as transferring the bad effect by Mer+Ven is on Moon is

concerned, my question is why Moon will not tranfer the bads effect

on its Quarbani ka Bakra?

>

> Sincerely

> Yograj Prabhakar

>

>

>

>

>

> --- On Wed, 6/25/08, gill_hs2005 <gill_hs2005 wrote:

> gill_hs2005 <gill_hs2005

> LK discussion group Re:Devising the form of an upaya /

SUN+MARS

>

> Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 6:35 PM

>

>

>

>

>

Dear Prabhakar ji,

>

>

>

> It is alright if you do not agree to the logic given by shri Varun

>

> ji. But then could you give your alternate logic to –

>

> A)why would be manda asar on moon if the sun and mars are together?

>

> B)why shukkar apani bala bali ke bakare chanderama par nahi dalega

>

> if venus and mercury ka sath sooraj se ho jaye to?

>

>

>

> Sincerely

>

>

>

> HS Gill

>

>

>

> , " Yograj Prabhakar "

>

> <yr_prabhakar@ ...> wrote:

>

> >

>

> > Dear Varun Ji

>

> >

>

> > You are free to understand the situation as per your convenience

>

> > and understanding. But I am not convinced with the logic you

>

> > have given by using the Masnooyi technique.

>

> >

>

> > Using this technique of Masnooyi, Antar Masnooyi and Pratayantar

>

> > Masnooyi may look adventurous, but it must be used in the right

>

> > context. You cannot use this thing everywhere. What each

>

> > masnooyi planet represent, how it will work and what are the

>

> > areas of their effects are clearly mentioned in Lal kitab.

>

> >

>

> > As far as the combination of Sun+Mercury+ Venus is concerned. It

>

> > is clearly mentioned that:

>

> > " Ab Budh ka khali chakkar Suraj ki madad se shukkar ko barbad

>

> > kar dega. " LK-1952, page-923).

>

> >

>

> > And Pundit ji too recommended remedy for Sun+Mer+Ven( page no.

925,

>

> > first 6 lines) not Chandar. Why Pundit ji did not considered the

>

> > Qurbani ka Bakra concept? What could be the possible reason? Why

>

> > Shukkar is unable to pass on the bad effects on Chandar in this

>

> > combination? why Chandar is not at all affected?

>

> >

>

> > There maybe a few things left on readers own intelligence, but

we

>

> must

>

> > not forget that:

>

> > " ..... " Farzee manmaani ya Manghadat baat Veham paida karegi, aur

>

> > Veham ka ilaaz shayad hi kahin milta hoga. " (LK-1952, page 6,

>

> > Juz-5)

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Respectfully

>

> > Yograj Prabhakar

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > , " varun_trvd "

>

> > <varun_trvd@ > wrote:

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > Respected Yograj ji,

>

> > >

>

> > > This is how we have understood the problem.

>

> > >

>

> > > May be you have a different approach which

>

> > >

>

> > > we all would love to hear about.

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > If the sun gets associated with the combination

>

> > >

>

> > > of mercury and venus, it will make the combination

>

> > >

>

> > > malefic. The book says:

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > Uttam barabar asar dono ka, drishti ravi na karata jo

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > [ 1952 urdu ed : page 856 line #4 ]

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > Therefore if in a kundali mercury and venus are

>

> > >

>

> > > together and if they get associated with the sun in

>

> > >

>

> > > any capacity, then moon will get the brunt. Moon

>

> > >

>

> > > will be the ultimate bali ka bakara.

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > {In the equation I had worked out for sun+ mars,

>

> > >

>

> > > sun itself is one of the components of that break up.}

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > Whether this has been specifically mentioned in the

>

> > >

>

> > > book or not is a different matter. Most of the things

>

> > >

>

> > > have been left to the intelligence of the reader. They

>

> > >

>

> > > should use deductive logic to get at the conclusion.

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > This is how we have understood it. May be you have

>

> > >

>

> > > got a different understanding. We would love to hear

>

> > >

>

> > > your views too on both these issues : Mars + sun and

>

> > >

>

> > > the moon getting affected; and mercury + venus and

>

> > >

>

> > > no mention of moon getting affected.

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > With respect and regards,

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > Varun Trivedi

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > , Yograj Prabhakar

>

> > > <yr_prabhakar@ > wrote:

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Dear Varun Ji

>

> > > >

>

> > > > For Sun+Mars You have said :

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Mars = sun + mercury

>

> > > > Sun = mercury + venus

>

> > > >

>

> > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury and venus ,

both

>

> enemies

>

> > > of the moon.Therefore it is natural that this combination will

>

> not be

>

> > > conducive for moon.

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > My question is If Mercury and Venus (as Masnooyi

constituents)

>

> are

>

> > > responsible for making Moon weak In Sun+Mar combination, then

>

> why the

>

> > > same condition is not applicable in Mercury+Venus combination

in

>

> the

>

> > > chart? Why it is specially mentioned in the Sun+Mars

combination

>

> only?

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Respectfully

>

> > > > Yograj Prabhakar

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > --- On Sun, 6/22/08, varun_trvd varun_trvd@ wrote:

>

> > > > varun_trvd varun_trvd@

>

> > > > LK discussion group Re:Devising the form of an

>

> upaya / Pt.

>

> > > Umesh Sharma ji

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Sunday, June 22, 2008, 10:56 PM

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Respected finn saheb,

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Thank you so much for adding a new perspective to the

>

> explanation.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Yes, you are right; this is the reason why taking the help of

>

> > > >

>

> > > > jupiter has been suggested.

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Regards,

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Varun Trivedi

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > , " Finn Wandahl "

>

> > > >

>

> > > > <finn.wandahl@ ...> wrote:

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > Dear Varun Trivedi,

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >>...[ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says: " Ketu mande ho

>

> madad

>

> > > >

>

> > > > guru

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho " . Here Jupiter is used to

>

> > > >

>

> > > > strengthen

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > ketu. There is nothing unusual in that. This is a very

common

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

>

> > > >

>

> > > > strengthening

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > another friendly planet...<<

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > Sure, this is a sound explanation. But perhaps there is

more

>

> to

>

> > > >

>

> > > > it. an

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > additional explanation could be that Ketu is debilitated

in

>

> the 3rd

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > house, and therefore Jupiter could be suggested to

strengten

>

> Ketu,

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > because Jupiter rules the 9th house (Sagittarius) where

Ketu

>

> is

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > exalted. This way exaltation would undo debilitation, so

to

>

> speak.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > :-)

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > Finn Wandahl

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > , " varun_trvd "

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > <varun_trvd@ > wrote:

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > Respected Umesh ji,

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > My views on the issues you have raised.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > [ 1 ] Lal Kitab varshphal sarini :

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > In traditional vedic Jyotish there are quite a few

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > methods prevalent for working out the Varshphal

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > kundali. The Lal Kitab has suggested yet another

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > method. Therefore there is nothing unusual or

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > surprising about the method.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > The major question is what could have been the

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > logic or the arithmetic applied to generate the table.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > We know that unless there was some formula the

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > table could not have been generated. We do not

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > know the formula as yet. But sure one day the

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > formula would be known. Till such time the formula

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > used is found out, let us not treat the sarini as some

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > thing super natural. There is nothing mystical or

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > super natural about it. It is an ordinary table; there

are

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > hundreds of such tables used in the traditional astrology

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > [ 2 ] For sun + mars the book says :

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > This is simple to explain, have a look at what

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > constitutes these two planets.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > Mars = sun + mercury

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > Sun = mercury + venus

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > it is natural that this combination will not be

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > conducive for moon.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > [ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says :

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > Ketu mande ho madad guru ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > Here Jupiter is used to strengthen ketu. There is

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > strengthening another friendly planet.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > With great respect and regards,

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > Varun Trivedi

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Respected Yograj ji,

 

In response to what you have written to res Gill Saheb:

 

A) Planets placed in a house and planets associated with a house are

two different thing. The sun and the mars are associated with the

1st house. There is nothing unique about it. It is true about all

the houses. The planets which are associated with a house by virtue

of being either owners or the pakka house will definitely influence

that house. Nothing unique or unusual about it.

 

B) Masnuyee concept applies to every planet irrespective and inspite

of Rasi Phal or Grah Phal. There are no restrictions what so ever

that the concept would apply to one and not to the other.

 

C) A planet which has been turned into a scape goat can not transfer

its ills down any further. Once the moon is reduced to the status of

a scape goat of Venus, it loses its authority to transfer it down to

its friends because it is no longer a free agent. A planet can

transfer its ill down to its scape goat only so long as it is a free

agent and has not been reduced to the status of a scape goat himself.

This is simple logical inference.

 

Regards,

 

Varun Trivedi

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, Yograj Prabhakar

<yr_prabhakar wrote:

>

> Dear Gill Sahib

>

> My apprehension or disagreement is not baseless. Read the grammar

of Lal Kitab carefully, you will find a very unique thing about

Suraj+Mangal combination. The Sun+Mars combination, irrespective of

its placement shall give result of its combination in the 1st house

the chart.

>

> If you are aware of the Grehphal/Rashiphal concept you will find

that the masnooyi technique used by Mr. Varun is not at all

applicable in this case since both sun and Mars are considered as

posited in the 1st house of the chart. So that the " emergence " of

Shukkar+Budh is totally out of context.

>

> As far as transferring the bad effect by Mer+Ven is on Moon is

concerned, my question is why Moon will not tranfer the bads effect

on its Quarbani ka Bakra?

>

> Sincerely

> Yograj Prabhakar

>

>

>

>

>

> --- On Wed, 6/25/08, gill_hs2005 <gill_hs2005 wrote:

> gill_hs2005 <gill_hs2005

> LK discussion group Re:Devising the form of an upaya /

SUN+MARS

>

> Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 6:35 PM

>

>

>

>

>

Dear Prabhakar ji,

>

>

>

> It is alright if you do not agree to the logic given by shri Varun

>

> ji. But then could you give your alternate logic to –

>

> A)why would be manda asar on moon if the sun and mars are together?

>

> B)why shukkar apani bala bali ke bakare chanderama par nahi dalega

>

> if venus and mercury ka sath sooraj se ho jaye to?

>

>

>

> Sincerely

>

>

>

> HS Gill

>

>

>

> , " Yograj Prabhakar "

>

> <yr_prabhakar@ ...> wrote:

>

> >

>

> > Dear Varun Ji

>

> >

>

> > You are free to understand the situation as per your convenience

>

> > and understanding. But I am not convinced with the logic you

>

> > have given by using the Masnooyi technique.

>

> >

>

> > Using this technique of Masnooyi, Antar Masnooyi and Pratayantar

>

> > Masnooyi may look adventurous, but it must be used in the right

>

> > context. You cannot use this thing everywhere. What each

>

> > masnooyi planet represent, how it will work and what are the

>

> > areas of their effects are clearly mentioned in Lal kitab.

>

> >

>

> > As far as the combination of Sun+Mercury+ Venus is concerned. It

>

> > is clearly mentioned that:

>

> > " Ab Budh ka khali chakkar Suraj ki madad se shukkar ko barbad

>

> > kar dega. " LK-1952, page-923).

>

> >

>

> > And Pundit ji too recommended remedy for Sun+Mer+Ven( page no.

925,

>

> > first 6 lines) not Chandar. Why Pundit ji did not considered the

>

> > Qurbani ka Bakra concept? What could be the possible reason? Why

>

> > Shukkar is unable to pass on the bad effects on Chandar in this

>

> > combination? why Chandar is not at all affected?

>

> >

>

> > There maybe a few things left on readers own intelligence, but

we

>

> must

>

> > not forget that:

>

> > " ..... " Farzee manmaani ya Manghadat baat Veham paida karegi, aur

>

> > Veham ka ilaaz shayad hi kahin milta hoga. " (LK-1952, page 6,

>

> > Juz-5)

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Respectfully

>

> > Yograj Prabhakar

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > , " varun_trvd "

>

> > <varun_trvd@ > wrote:

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > Respected Yograj ji,

>

> > >

>

> > > This is how we have understood the problem.

>

> > >

>

> > > May be you have a different approach which

>

> > >

>

> > > we all would love to hear about.

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > If the sun gets associated with the combination

>

> > >

>

> > > of mercury and venus, it will make the combination

>

> > >

>

> > > malefic. The book says:

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > Uttam barabar asar dono ka, drishti ravi na karata jo

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > [ 1952 urdu ed : page 856 line #4 ]

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > Therefore if in a kundali mercury and venus are

>

> > >

>

> > > together and if they get associated with the sun in

>

> > >

>

> > > any capacity, then moon will get the brunt. Moon

>

> > >

>

> > > will be the ultimate bali ka bakara.

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > {In the equation I had worked out for sun+ mars,

>

> > >

>

> > > sun itself is one of the components of that break up.}

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > Whether this has been specifically mentioned in the

>

> > >

>

> > > book or not is a different matter. Most of the things

>

> > >

>

> > > have been left to the intelligence of the reader. They

>

> > >

>

> > > should use deductive logic to get at the conclusion.

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > This is how we have understood it. May be you have

>

> > >

>

> > > got a different understanding. We would love to hear

>

> > >

>

> > > your views too on both these issues : Mars + sun and

>

> > >

>

> > > the moon getting affected; and mercury + venus and

>

> > >

>

> > > no mention of moon getting affected.

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > With respect and regards,

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > Varun Trivedi

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > , Yograj Prabhakar

>

> > > <yr_prabhakar@ > wrote:

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Dear Varun Ji

>

> > > >

>

> > > > For Sun+Mars You have said :

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Mars = sun + mercury

>

> > > > Sun = mercury + venus

>

> > > >

>

> > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury and venus ,

both

>

> enemies

>

> > > of the moon.Therefore it is natural that this combination will

>

> not be

>

> > > conducive for moon.

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > My question is If Mercury and Venus (as Masnooyi

constituents)

>

> are

>

> > > responsible for making Moon weak In Sun+Mar combination, then

>

> why the

>

> > > same condition is not applicable in Mercury+Venus combination

in

>

> the

>

> > > chart? Why it is specially mentioned in the Sun+Mars

combination

>

> only?

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Respectfully

>

> > > > Yograj Prabhakar

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > --- On Sun, 6/22/08, varun_trvd varun_trvd@ wrote:

>

> > > > varun_trvd varun_trvd@

>

> > > > LK discussion group Re:Devising the form of an

>

> upaya / Pt.

>

> > > Umesh Sharma ji

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Sunday, June 22, 2008, 10:56 PM

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Respected finn saheb,

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Thank you so much for adding a new perspective to the

>

> explanation.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Yes, you are right; this is the reason why taking the help of

>

> > > >

>

> > > > jupiter has been suggested.

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Regards,

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Varun Trivedi

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > , " Finn Wandahl "

>

> > > >

>

> > > > <finn.wandahl@ ...> wrote:

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > Dear Varun Trivedi,

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >>...[ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says: " Ketu mande ho

>

> madad

>

> > > >

>

> > > > guru

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho " . Here Jupiter is used to

>

> > > >

>

> > > > strengthen

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > ketu. There is nothing unusual in that. This is a very

common

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

>

> > > >

>

> > > > strengthening

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > another friendly planet...<<

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > Sure, this is a sound explanation. But perhaps there is

more

>

> to

>

> > > >

>

> > > > it. an

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > additional explanation could be that Ketu is debilitated

in

>

> the 3rd

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > house, and therefore Jupiter could be suggested to

strengten

>

> Ketu,

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > because Jupiter rules the 9th house (Sagittarius) where

Ketu

>

> is

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > exalted. This way exaltation would undo debilitation, so

to

>

> speak.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > :-)

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > Finn Wandahl

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > , " varun_trvd "

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > <varun_trvd@ > wrote:

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > Respected Umesh ji,

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > My views on the issues you have raised.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > [ 1 ] Lal Kitab varshphal sarini :

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > In traditional vedic Jyotish there are quite a few

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > methods prevalent for working out the Varshphal

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > kundali. The Lal Kitab has suggested yet another

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > method. Therefore there is nothing unusual or

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > surprising about the method.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > The major question is what could have been the

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > logic or the arithmetic applied to generate the table.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > We know that unless there was some formula the

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > table could not have been generated. We do not

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > know the formula as yet. But sure one day the

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > formula would be known. Till such time the formula

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > used is found out, let us not treat the sarini as some

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > thing super natural. There is nothing mystical or

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > super natural about it. It is an ordinary table; there

are

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > hundreds of such tables used in the traditional astrology

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > [ 2 ] For sun + mars the book says :

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > This is simple to explain, have a look at what

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > constitutes these two planets.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > Mars = sun + mercury

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > Sun = mercury + venus

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > it is natural that this combination will not be

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > conducive for moon.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > [ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says :

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > Ketu mande ho madad guru ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > Here Jupiter is used to strengthen ketu. There is

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > strengthening another friendly planet.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > With great respect and regards,

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > Varun Trivedi

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Shri Yograj ji,

 

You are wrong. In the grammar portion there is no mention that

special powers have been granted to the combination of sun and mars

which is denied to other planet combinations.

I can not help if you think that our approach in this group is not

scientific. I would love to see any article from you explaining a

Lal Kitab concept in a manner you think is scientific.

At least I also do not care about what others think about me. I am

no less an Abdulla deewana.

 

Sincerely,

 

Girish raheja

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, Yograj Prabhakar

<yr_prabhakar wrote:

>

> Mukhi Jee

>

> Please read the Suraj+Mangal combination carefully in the grammar

portion. And read what special status is given to Suraj+Mangal

combination. And also read carefully the results of this combination

in the 1st house.

>

> If you are interested in Scientific approach you must use the 1-2-

3-4 technique instead of using any arbitrary approach.

>

> If you feel some people (Lal kitabists) are not happy with you,

why you should be worried? Once should continue with his endeavor

instead of thinking about these petty things. Look at me,  I often

found my self as " Begani Shadi Mein Abdullah Deewana.... " but I

continue to express myself. I will continue to do so till I am not

thrown away.

>

> Sincerely

> Yograj Prabhakar

>

>  

>

>

>

> --- On Wed, 6/25/08, girish_raheja <girish_raheja wrote:

> girish_raheja <girish_raheja

> LK discussion group Re:Devising the form of an upaya /

SUN+MARS

>

> Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 7:25 PM

>

>

>

>

>

Shri Yograj ji,

>

>

>

> Scientific enquiry and scientific temper leads to the truth, it

>

> dispels vaham. Resistance to it would perpetrate vaham. It is this

>

> approach to shield and keep the book away from scientific scrutiny,

>

> which reduced it to a book of tona-totkas. I know some lalkitabists

>

> are not happy with the way the Lal Kitab is treated in this group.

>

> If they are not, so be it. [ apologies to the moderator]

>

> In your quote on farzee vaham you had missed out the words kitab ke

>

> bagair. All discussions in this group have been within the limits

of

>

> the book. In no other Lal Kitab group the book has so often been

>

> quoted as in this group; so much so we had to request the moderator

>

> to give the page numbers from the Arun Sanhita also, because most

of

>

> us do not know how to read Urdu.

>

> You can not call using Masnuyee concepts as adventurous simply

>

> because you or others have not used the concept to understand the

>

> logic behind the upaya. As a matter of fact it is for the first

time

>

> we learnt how to use this concept in this group. You might think it

>

> as adventurous, but for us the young learners it is innovative. I

>

> hope you know the difference of spirit between the two.

>

> Shri Prabhakar ji, you have turned down the logic of shri Varun ji.

>

> It is the easiest thing to do. Even I could turn around and say I

do

>

> not agree. But giving an alternative answer is what is expected if

>

> you disagree. But you have not given your logic for those two

>

> questions which Varun ji had given his logic for.

>

> I hope now you will give your logic for the two questions Gill

sahib

>

> has asked.

>

>

>

> Sincerely,

>

>

>

> Girish Raheja

>

>

>

> , " Yograj Prabhakar "

>

> <yr_prabhakar@ ...> wrote:

>

> >

>

> > Dear Varun Ji

>

> >

>

> > You are free to understand the situation as per your convenience

>

> > and understanding. But I am not convinced with the logic you

>

> > have given by using the Masnooyi technique.

>

> >

>

> > Using this technique of Masnooyi, Antar Masnooyi and Pratayantar

>

> > Masnooyi may look adventurous, but it must be used in the right

>

> > context. You cannot use this thing everywhere. What each

>

> > masnooyi planet represent, how it will work and what are the

>

> > areas of their effects are clearly mentioned in Lal kitab.

>

> >

>

> > As far as the combination of Sun+Mercury+ Venus is concerned. It

>

> > is clearly mentioned that:

>

> > " Ab Budh ka khali chakkar Suraj ki madad se shukkar ko barbad

>

> > kar dega. " LK-1952, page-923).

>

> >

>

> > And Pundit ji too recommended remedy for Sun+Mer+Ven( page no.

925,

>

> > first 6 lines) not Chandar. Why Pundit ji did not considered the

>

> > Qurbani ka Bakra concept? What could be the possible reason? Why

>

> > Shukkar is unable to pass on the bad effects on Chandar in this

>

> > combination? why Chandar is not at all affected?

>

> >

>

> > There maybe a few things left on readers own intelligence, but we

>

> must

>

> > not forget that:

>

> > " ..... " Farzee manmaani ya Manghadat baat Veham paida karegi, aur

>

> > Veham ka ilaaz shayad hi kahin milta hoga. " (LK-1952, page 6,

>

> > Juz-5)

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Respectfully

>

> > Yograj Prabhakar

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > , " varun_trvd "

>

> > <varun_trvd@ > wrote:

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > Respected Yograj ji,

>

> > >

>

> > > This is how we have understood the problem.

>

> > >

>

> > > May be you have a different approach which

>

> > >

>

> > > we all would love to hear about.

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > If the sun gets associated with the combination

>

> > >

>

> > > of mercury and venus, it will make the combination

>

> > >

>

> > > malefic. The book says:

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > Uttam barabar asar dono ka, drishti ravi na karata jo

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > [ 1952 urdu ed : page 856 line #4 ]

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > Therefore if in a kundali mercury and venus are

>

> > >

>

> > > together and if they get associated with the sun in

>

> > >

>

> > > any capacity, then moon will get the brunt. Moon

>

> > >

>

> > > will be the ultimate bali ka bakara.

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > {In the equation I had worked out for sun+ mars,

>

> > >

>

> > > sun itself is one of the components of that break up.}

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > Whether this has been specifically mentioned in the

>

> > >

>

> > > book or not is a different matter. Most of the things

>

> > >

>

> > > have been left to the intelligence of the reader. They

>

> > >

>

> > > should use deductive logic to get at the conclusion.

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > This is how we have understood it. May be you have

>

> > >

>

> > > got a different understanding. We would love to hear

>

> > >

>

> > > your views too on both these issues : Mars + sun and

>

> > >

>

> > > the moon getting affected; and mercury + venus and

>

> > >

>

> > > no mention of moon getting affected.

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > With respect and regards,

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > Varun Trivedi

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > , Yograj Prabhakar

>

> > > <yr_prabhakar@ > wrote:

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Dear Varun Ji

>

> > > >

>

> > > > For Sun+Mars You have said :

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Mars = sun + mercury

>

> > > > Sun = mercury + venus

>

> > > >

>

> > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury and venus ,

both

>

> enemies

>

> > > of the moon.Therefore it is natural that this combination will

>

> not be

>

> > > conducive for moon.

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > My question is If Mercury and Venus (as Masnooyi

constituents)

>

> are

>

> > > responsible for making Moon weak In Sun+Mar combination, then

>

> why the

>

> > > same condition is not applicable in Mercury+Venus combination

in

>

> the

>

> > > chart? Why it is specially mentioned in the Sun+Mars

combination

>

> only?

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Respectfully

>

> > > > Yograj Prabhakar

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > --- On Sun, 6/22/08, varun_trvd varun_trvd@ wrote:

>

> > > > varun_trvd varun_trvd@

>

> > > > LK discussion group Re:Devising the form of an

>

> upaya / Pt.

>

> > > Umesh Sharma ji

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Sunday, June 22, 2008, 10:56 PM

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Respected finn saheb,

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Thank you so much for adding a new perspective to the

>

> explanation.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Yes, you are right; this is the reason why taking the help of

>

> > > >

>

> > > > jupiter has been suggested.

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Regards,

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Varun Trivedi

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > , " Finn Wandahl "

>

> > > >

>

> > > > <finn.wandahl@ ...> wrote:

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > Dear Varun Trivedi,

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >>...[ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says: " Ketu mande ho

>

> madad

>

> > > >

>

> > > > guru

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho " . Here Jupiter is used to

>

> > > >

>

> > > > strengthen

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > ketu. There is nothing unusual in that. This is a very

common

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

>

> > > >

>

> > > > strengthening

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > another friendly planet...<<

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > Sure, this is a sound explanation. But perhaps there is

more

>

> to

>

> > > >

>

> > > > it. an

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > additional explanation could be that Ketu is debilitated in

>

> the 3rd

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > house, and therefore Jupiter could be suggested to

strengten

>

> Ketu,

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > because Jupiter rules the 9th house (Sagittarius) where

Ketu

>

> is

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > exalted. This way exaltation would undo debilitation, so to

>

> speak.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > :-)

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > Finn Wandahl

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > , " varun_trvd "

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > <varun_trvd@ > wrote:

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > Respected Umesh ji,

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > My views on the issues you have raised.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > [ 1 ] Lal Kitab varshphal sarini :

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > In traditional vedic Jyotish there are quite a few

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > methods prevalent for working out the Varshphal

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > kundali. The Lal Kitab has suggested yet another

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > method. Therefore there is nothing unusual or

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > surprising about the method.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > The major question is what could have been the

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > logic or the arithmetic applied to generate the table.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > We know that unless there was some formula the

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > table could not have been generated. We do not

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > know the formula as yet. But sure one day the

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > formula would be known. Till such time the formula

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > used is found out, let us not treat the sarini as some

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > thing super natural. There is nothing mystical or

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > super natural about it. It is an ordinary table; there

are

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > hundreds of such tables used in the traditional astrology

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > [ 2 ] For sun + mars the book says :

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > This is simple to explain, have a look at what

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > constitutes these two planets.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > Mars = sun + mercury

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > Sun = mercury + venus

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > it is natural that this combination will not be

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > conducive for moon.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > [ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says :

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > Ketu mande ho madad guru ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > Here Jupiter is used to strengthen ketu. There is

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > strengthening another friendly planet.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > With great respect and regards,

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > Varun Trivedi

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yograj jee,

 

aap jo koi bhee ho apna kaam karte rahein yeh

bhee achha group hai inko apna kaam karne dijiye. yeh log bhee achha

kaam rahein hain. kisi na kisi bahane log lal kitab ke baare mein

jange. yehi maksad hona chahiye.

 

Hemant.

 

 

 

 

 

, Yograj Prabhakar

<yr_prabhakar wrote:

>

> Mukhi Jee

>

> Please read the Suraj+Mangal combination carefully in the grammar

portion. And read what special status is given to Suraj+Mangal

combination. And also read carefully the results of this combination

in the 1st house.

>

> If you are interested in Scientific approach you must use the 1-2-

3-4 technique instead of using any arbitrary approach.

>

> If you feel some people (Lal kitabists) are not happy with you,

why you should be worried? Once should continue with his endeavor

instead of thinking about these petty things. Look at me,  I often

found my self as " Begani Shadi Mein Abdullah Deewana.... " but I

continue to express myself. I will continue to do so till I am not

thrown away.

>

> Sincerely

> Yograj Prabhakar

>

>  

>

>

>

> --- On Wed, 6/25/08, girish_raheja <girish_raheja wrote:

> girish_raheja <girish_raheja

> LK discussion group Re:Devising the form of an upaya /

SUN+MARS

>

> Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 7:25 PM

>

>

>

>

>

Shri Yograj ji,

>

>

>

> Scientific enquiry and scientific temper leads to the truth, it

>

> dispels vaham. Resistance to it would perpetrate vaham. It is this

>

> approach to shield and keep the book away from scientific scrutiny,

>

> which reduced it to a book of tona-totkas. I know some lalkitabists

>

> are not happy with the way the Lal Kitab is treated in this group.

>

> If they are not, so be it. [ apologies to the moderator]

>

> In your quote on farzee vaham you had missed out the words kitab ke

>

> bagair. All discussions in this group have been within the limits

of

>

> the book. In no other Lal Kitab group the book has so often been

>

> quoted as in this group; so much so we had to request the moderator

>

> to give the page numbers from the Arun Sanhita also, because most

of

>

> us do not know how to read Urdu.

>

> You can not call using Masnuyee concepts as adventurous simply

>

> because you or others have not used the concept to understand the

>

> logic behind the upaya. As a matter of fact it is for the first

time

>

> we learnt how to use this concept in this group. You might think it

>

> as adventurous, but for us the young learners it is innovative. I

>

> hope you know the difference of spirit between the two.

>

> Shri Prabhakar ji, you have turned down the logic of shri Varun ji.

>

> It is the easiest thing to do. Even I could turn around and say I

do

>

> not agree. But giving an alternative answer is what is expected if

>

> you disagree. But you have not given your logic for those two

>

> questions which Varun ji had given his logic for.

>

> I hope now you will give your logic for the two questions Gill

sahib

>

> has asked.

>

>

>

> Sincerely,

>

>

>

> Girish Raheja

>

>

>

> , " Yograj Prabhakar "

>

> <yr_prabhakar@ ...> wrote:

>

> >

>

> > Dear Varun Ji

>

> >

>

> > You are free to understand the situation as per your convenience

>

> > and understanding. But I am not convinced with the logic you

>

> > have given by using the Masnooyi technique.

>

> >

>

> > Using this technique of Masnooyi, Antar Masnooyi and Pratayantar

>

> > Masnooyi may look adventurous, but it must be used in the right

>

> > context. You cannot use this thing everywhere. What each

>

> > masnooyi planet represent, how it will work and what are the

>

> > areas of their effects are clearly mentioned in Lal kitab.

>

> >

>

> > As far as the combination of Sun+Mercury+ Venus is concerned. It

>

> > is clearly mentioned that:

>

> > " Ab Budh ka khali chakkar Suraj ki madad se shukkar ko barbad

>

> > kar dega. " LK-1952, page-923).

>

> >

>

> > And Pundit ji too recommended remedy for Sun+Mer+Ven( page no.

925,

>

> > first 6 lines) not Chandar. Why Pundit ji did not considered the

>

> > Qurbani ka Bakra concept? What could be the possible reason? Why

>

> > Shukkar is unable to pass on the bad effects on Chandar in this

>

> > combination? why Chandar is not at all affected?

>

> >

>

> > There maybe a few things left on readers own intelligence, but we

>

> must

>

> > not forget that:

>

> > " ..... " Farzee manmaani ya Manghadat baat Veham paida karegi, aur

>

> > Veham ka ilaaz shayad hi kahin milta hoga. " (LK-1952, page 6,

>

> > Juz-5)

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Respectfully

>

> > Yograj Prabhakar

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > , " varun_trvd "

>

> > <varun_trvd@ > wrote:

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > Respected Yograj ji,

>

> > >

>

> > > This is how we have understood the problem.

>

> > >

>

> > > May be you have a different approach which

>

> > >

>

> > > we all would love to hear about.

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > If the sun gets associated with the combination

>

> > >

>

> > > of mercury and venus, it will make the combination

>

> > >

>

> > > malefic. The book says:

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > Uttam barabar asar dono ka, drishti ravi na karata jo

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > [ 1952 urdu ed : page 856 line #4 ]

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > Therefore if in a kundali mercury and venus are

>

> > >

>

> > > together and if they get associated with the sun in

>

> > >

>

> > > any capacity, then moon will get the brunt. Moon

>

> > >

>

> > > will be the ultimate bali ka bakara.

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > {In the equation I had worked out for sun+ mars,

>

> > >

>

> > > sun itself is one of the components of that break up.}

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > Whether this has been specifically mentioned in the

>

> > >

>

> > > book or not is a different matter. Most of the things

>

> > >

>

> > > have been left to the intelligence of the reader. They

>

> > >

>

> > > should use deductive logic to get at the conclusion.

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > This is how we have understood it. May be you have

>

> > >

>

> > > got a different understanding. We would love to hear

>

> > >

>

> > > your views too on both these issues : Mars + sun and

>

> > >

>

> > > the moon getting affected; and mercury + venus and

>

> > >

>

> > > no mention of moon getting affected.

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > With respect and regards,

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > Varun Trivedi

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > , Yograj Prabhakar

>

> > > <yr_prabhakar@ > wrote:

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Dear Varun Ji

>

> > > >

>

> > > > For Sun+Mars You have said :

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Mars = sun + mercury

>

> > > > Sun = mercury + venus

>

> > > >

>

> > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury and venus ,

both

>

> enemies

>

> > > of the moon.Therefore it is natural that this combination will

>

> not be

>

> > > conducive for moon.

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > My question is If Mercury and Venus (as Masnooyi

constituents)

>

> are

>

> > > responsible for making Moon weak In Sun+Mar combination, then

>

> why the

>

> > > same condition is not applicable in Mercury+Venus combination

in

>

> the

>

> > > chart? Why it is specially mentioned in the Sun+Mars

combination

>

> only?

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Respectfully

>

> > > > Yograj Prabhakar

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > --- On Sun, 6/22/08, varun_trvd varun_trvd@ wrote:

>

> > > > varun_trvd varun_trvd@

>

> > > > LK discussion group Re:Devising the form of an

>

> upaya / Pt.

>

> > > Umesh Sharma ji

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Sunday, June 22, 2008, 10:56 PM

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Respected finn saheb,

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Thank you so much for adding a new perspective to the

>

> explanation.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Yes, you are right; this is the reason why taking the help of

>

> > > >

>

> > > > jupiter has been suggested.

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Regards,

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Varun Trivedi

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > , " Finn Wandahl "

>

> > > >

>

> > > > <finn.wandahl@ ...> wrote:

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > Dear Varun Trivedi,

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >>...[ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says: " Ketu mande ho

>

> madad

>

> > > >

>

> > > > guru

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho " . Here Jupiter is used to

>

> > > >

>

> > > > strengthen

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > ketu. There is nothing unusual in that. This is a very

common

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

>

> > > >

>

> > > > strengthening

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > another friendly planet...<<

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > Sure, this is a sound explanation. But perhaps there is

more

>

> to

>

> > > >

>

> > > > it. an

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > additional explanation could be that Ketu is debilitated in

>

> the 3rd

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > house, and therefore Jupiter could be suggested to

strengten

>

> Ketu,

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > because Jupiter rules the 9th house (Sagittarius) where

Ketu

>

> is

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > exalted. This way exaltation would undo debilitation, so to

>

> speak.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > :-)

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > Finn Wandahl

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > , " varun_trvd "

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > <varun_trvd@ > wrote:

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > Respected Umesh ji,

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > My views on the issues you have raised.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > [ 1 ] Lal Kitab varshphal sarini :

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > In traditional vedic Jyotish there are quite a few

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > methods prevalent for working out the Varshphal

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > kundali. The Lal Kitab has suggested yet another

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > method. Therefore there is nothing unusual or

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > surprising about the method.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > The major question is what could have been the

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > logic or the arithmetic applied to generate the table.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > We know that unless there was some formula the

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > table could not have been generated. We do not

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > know the formula as yet. But sure one day the

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > formula would be known. Till such time the formula

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > used is found out, let us not treat the sarini as some

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > thing super natural. There is nothing mystical or

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > super natural about it. It is an ordinary table; there

are

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > hundreds of such tables used in the traditional astrology

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > [ 2 ] For sun + mars the book says :

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > This is simple to explain, have a look at what

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > constitutes these two planets.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > Mars = sun + mercury

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > Sun = mercury + venus

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > it is natural that this combination will not be

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > conducive for moon.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > [ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says :

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > Ketu mande ho madad guru ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > Here Jupiter is used to strengthen ketu. There is

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > strengthening another friendly planet.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > With great respect and regards,

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > Varun Trivedi

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Respected Yograj ji,

 

You know your participation is so very valuable to me personally and

to the group as a whole. You are very right that all discussions are

a process of learning. We all are learners trying to explore new

vistas every day. Discussions are also meant to find out common

grounds. In those areas where no common ground is agreed upon, our

approach is to let people stay with their beliefs. All of us should

express our views and let the readers choose what appeals to them

and what they want to accept.

 

With respect and regards,

 

Varun Trivedi

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, Yograj Prabhakar

<yr_prabhakar wrote:

>

> Dear Varun ji

>

> Thanks for you explanation. Whatever I expressed was in good

spirit, not at all to disrupt the proceedings as some of our friends

accused. Whatever I wrote is strictly conform to the LK principles

and I am firmly stick to it. I never say a word for sake of merely

saying and never will be.I must clarify to you and some of our

friends that I never participate/debate to prove something.  Because

the debates are not for proving or disapproving something but to

learn from each others experience. 

>

> As far as Grehphal is concerned, I will not dare to do any

manipulation since I am not any Khuda Raseeda person. But I am fully

agree with your Scape goat concept.

>

> Respectfully

> Yograj Prabhakar

>

>  

>

>

>

> --- On Thu, 6/26/08, varun_trvd <varun_trvd wrote:

> varun_trvd <varun_trvd

> LK discussion group Re:Devising the form of an upaya /

SUN+MARS

>

> Thursday, June 26, 2008, 12:32 PM

>

>

>

>

>

Respected Yograj ji,

>

>

>

> In response to what you have written to res Gill Saheb:

>

>

>

> A) Planets placed in a house and planets associated with a house

are

>

> two different thing. The sun and the mars are associated with the

>

> 1st house. There is nothing unique about it. It is true about all

>

> the houses. The planets which are associated with a house by

virtue

>

> of being either owners or the pakka house will definitely

influence

>

> that house. Nothing unique or unusual about it.

>

>

>

> B) Masnuyee concept applies to every planet irrespective and

inspite

>

> of Rasi Phal or Grah Phal. There are no restrictions what so ever

>

> that the concept would apply to one and not to the other.

>

>

>

> C) A planet which has been turned into a scape goat can not

transfer

>

> its ills down any further. Once the moon is reduced to the status

of

>

> a scape goat of Venus, it loses its authority to transfer it down

to

>

> its friends because it is no longer a free agent. A planet can

>

> transfer its ill down to its scape goat only so long as it is a

free

>

> agent and has not been reduced to the status of a scape goat

himself.

>

> This is simple logical inference.

>

>

>

> Regards,

>

>

>

> Varun Trivedi

>

>

>

> , Yograj Prabhakar

>

> <yr_prabhakar@ ...> wrote:

>

> >

>

> > Dear Gill Sahib

>

> >

>

> > My apprehension or disagreement is not baseless. Read the

grammar

>

> of Lal Kitab carefully, you will find a very unique thing about

>

> Suraj+Mangal combination. The Sun+Mars combination, irrespective

of

>

> its placement shall give result of its combination in the 1st

house

>

> the chart.

>

> >

>

> > If you are aware of the Grehphal/Rashiphal concept you will find

>

> that the masnooyi technique used by Mr. Varun is not at all

>

> applicable in this case since both sun and Mars are considered as

>

> posited in the 1st house of the chart. So that the " emergence " of

>

> Shukkar+Budh is totally out of context.

>

> >

>

> > As far as transferring the bad effect by Mer+Ven is on Moon is

>

> concerned, my question is why Moon will not tranfer the bads

effect

>

> on its Quarbani ka Bakra?

>

> >

>

> > Sincerely

>

> > Yograj Prabhakar

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > --- On Wed, 6/25/08, gill_hs2005 <gill_hs2005@ ...> wrote:

>

> > gill_hs2005 <gill_hs2005@ ...>

>

> > LK discussion group Re:Devising the form of an upaya /

>

> SUN+MARS

>

> >

>

> > Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 6:35 PM

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Dear Prabhakar ji,

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > It is alright if you do not agree to the logic given by shri

Varun

>

> >

>

> > ji. But then could you give your alternate logic to –

>

> >

>

> > A)why would be manda asar on moon if the sun and mars are

together?

>

> >

>

> > B)why shukkar apani bala bali ke bakare chanderama par nahi

dalega

>

> >

>

> > if venus and mercury ka sath sooraj se ho jaye to?

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Sincerely

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > HS Gill

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > , " Yograj Prabhakar "

>

> >

>

> > <yr_prabhakar@ ...> wrote:

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > Dear Varun Ji

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > You are free to understand the situation as per your

convenience

>

> >

>

> > > and understanding. But I am not convinced with the logic you

>

> >

>

> > > have given by using the Masnooyi technique.

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > Using this technique of Masnooyi, Antar Masnooyi and

Pratayantar

>

> >

>

> > > Masnooyi may look adventurous, but it must be used in the

right

>

> >

>

> > > context. You cannot use this thing everywhere. What each

>

> >

>

> > > masnooyi planet represent, how it will work and what are the

>

> >

>

> > > areas of their effects are clearly mentioned in Lal kitab.

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > As far as the combination of Sun+Mercury+ Venus is concerned.

It

>

> >

>

> > > is clearly mentioned that:

>

> >

>

> > > " Ab Budh ka khali chakkar Suraj ki madad se shukkar ko barbad

>

> >

>

> > > kar dega. " LK-1952, page-923).

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > And Pundit ji too recommended remedy for Sun+Mer+Ven( page no.

>

> 925,

>

> >

>

> > > first 6 lines) not Chandar. Why Pundit ji did not considered

the

>

> >

>

> > > Qurbani ka Bakra concept? What could be the possible reason?

Why

>

> >

>

> > > Shukkar is unable to pass on the bad effects on Chandar in this

>

> >

>

> > > combination? why Chandar is not at all affected?

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > There maybe a few things left on readers own intelligence, but

>

> we

>

> >

>

> > must

>

> >

>

> > > not forget that:

>

> >

>

> > > " ..... " Farzee manmaani ya Manghadat baat Veham paida karegi,

aur

>

> >

>

> > > Veham ka ilaaz shayad hi kahin milta hoga. " (LK-1952, page 6,

>

> >

>

> > > Juz-5)

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > Respectfully

>

> >

>

> > > Yograj Prabhakar

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > , " varun_trvd "

>

> >

>

> > > <varun_trvd@ > wrote:

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > Respected Yograj ji,

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > This is how we have understood the problem.

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > May be you have a different approach which

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > we all would love to hear about.

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > If the sun gets associated with the combination

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > of mercury and venus, it will make the combination

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > malefic. The book says:

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > Uttam barabar asar dono ka, drishti ravi na karata jo

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > [ 1952 urdu ed : page 856 line #4 ]

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > Therefore if in a kundali mercury and venus are

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > together and if they get associated with the sun in

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > any capacity, then moon will get the brunt. Moon

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > will be the ultimate bali ka bakara.

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > {In the equation I had worked out for sun+ mars,

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > sun itself is one of the components of that break up.}

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > Whether this has been specifically mentioned in the

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > book or not is a different matter. Most of the things

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > have been left to the intelligence of the reader. They

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > should use deductive logic to get at the conclusion.

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > This is how we have understood it. May be you have

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > got a different understanding. We would love to hear

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > your views too on both these issues : Mars + sun and

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > the moon getting affected; and mercury + venus and

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > no mention of moon getting affected.

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > With respect and regards,

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > Varun Trivedi

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > , Yograj

Prabhakar

>

> >

>

> > > > <yr_prabhakar@ > wrote:

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > Dear Varun Ji

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > For Sun+Mars You have said :

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > Mars = sun + mercury

>

> >

>

> > > > > Sun = mercury + venus

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury and venus ,

>

> both

>

> >

>

> > enemies

>

> >

>

> > > > of the moon.Therefore it is natural that this combination

will

>

> >

>

> > not be

>

> >

>

> > > > conducive for moon.

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > My question is If Mercury and Venus (as Masnooyi

>

> constituents)

>

> >

>

> > are

>

> >

>

> > > > responsible for making Moon weak In Sun+Mar combination,

then

>

> >

>

> > why the

>

> >

>

> > > > same condition is not applicable in Mercury+Venus

combination

>

> in

>

> >

>

> > the

>

> >

>

> > > > chart? Why it is specially mentioned in the Sun+Mars

>

> combination

>

> >

>

> > only?

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > Respectfully

>

> >

>

> > > > > Yograj Prabhakar

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > --- On Sun, 6/22/08, varun_trvd varun_trvd@ wrote:

>

> >

>

> > > > > varun_trvd varun_trvd@

>

> >

>

> > > > > LK discussion group Re:Devising the form of an

>

> >

>

> > upaya / Pt.

>

> >

>

> > > > Umesh Sharma ji

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > Sunday, June 22, 2008, 10:56 PM

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > Respected finn saheb,

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > Thank you so much for adding a new perspective to the

>

> >

>

> > explanation.

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > Yes, you are right; this is the reason why taking the help

of

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > jupiter has been suggested.

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > Regards,

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > Varun Trivedi

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > , " Finn

Wandahl "

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > <finn.wandahl@ ...> wrote:

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > > Dear Varun Trivedi,

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > > >>...[ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says: " Ketu mande

ho

>

> >

>

> > madad

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > guru

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > > ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho " . Here Jupiter is used

to

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > strengthen

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > > ketu. There is nothing unusual in that. This is a very

>

> common

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > strengthening

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > > another friendly planet...<<

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > > Sure, this is a sound explanation. But perhaps there is

>

> more

>

> >

>

> > to

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > it. an

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > > additional explanation could be that Ketu is debilitated

>

> in

>

> >

>

> > the 3rd

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > > house, and therefore Jupiter could be suggested to

>

> strengten

>

> >

>

> > Ketu,

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > > because Jupiter rules the 9th house (Sagittarius) where

>

> Ketu

>

> >

>

> > is

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > > exalted. This way exaltation would undo debilitation, so

>

> to

>

> >

>

> > speak.

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > > :-)

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > > Finn Wandahl

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > > @.

com, " varun_trvd "

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > > <varun_trvd@ > wrote:

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > > > Respected Umesh ji,

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > > > My views on the issues you have raised.

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > > > [ 1 ] Lal Kitab varshphal sarini :

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > > > In traditional vedic Jyotish there are quite a few

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > > > methods prevalent for working out the Varshphal

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > > > kundali. The Lal Kitab has suggested yet another

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > > > method. Therefore there is nothing unusual or

>

> >

>

> > > > >

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> > > > > > >

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> > > > > > > surprising about the method.

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> > > > > > > The major question is what could have been the

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> > > > >

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> > > > > > >

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> > > > >

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> > > > > > > logic or the arithmetic applied to generate the table.

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> > > > >

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> > > > > > >

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> > > > > > > We know that unless there was some formula the

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> > > > > > >

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> > > > > > > table could not have been generated. We do not

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> > > > >

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> > > > > > >

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> > > > >

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> > > > > > > know the formula as yet. But sure one day the

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> > > > > > >

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> > > > >

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> > > > > > > formula would be known. Till such time the formula

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> > > > >

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> > > > > > >

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> > > > >

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> > > > > > > used is found out, let us not treat the sarini as some

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> > > > >

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> > > > > > >

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> > > > >

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> > > > > > > thing super natural. There is nothing mystical or

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> > > > > > >

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> > > > >

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> > > > > > > super natural about it. It is an ordinary table; there

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> are

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> > > > >

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> > > > > > >

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> > > > > > > hundreds of such tables used in the traditional

astrology

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> > > > > > > [ 2 ] For sun + mars the book says :

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> > > > > > > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho

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> > > > > > > This is simple to explain, have a look at what

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> > > > >

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> > > > >

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> > > > > > > constitutes these two planets.

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> > > > > > > Mars = sun + mercury

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> > > > > > >

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> > > > > > > Sun = mercury + venus

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> > > > > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury

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> > > > >

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> > > > > > >

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> > > > >

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> > > > > > > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore

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> > > > >

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> > > > > > >

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> > > > >

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> > > > > > > it is natural that this combination will not be

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> > > > >

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> > > > > > >

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> > > > >

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> > > > > > > conducive for moon.

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> > > > > > > [ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says :

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> > > > > > > Ketu mande ho madad guru ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota

ho

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> > > > > > > Here Jupiter is used to strengthen ketu. There is

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> > > > >

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> > > > > > >

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> > > > >

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> > > > > > > nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

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> > > > >

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> >

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> > > > > > >

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> >

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> > > > >

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> > > > > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used

for

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> > > > >

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> > > > > > >

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> > > > >

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> > > > > > > strengthening another friendly planet.

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> > > > >

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> > > > >

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> > > > > > > With great respect and regards,

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> > > > > > > Varun Trivedi

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> > >

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> >

>