LK discussion group Re:Devising the form of an upaya / SUN+MARS

[Guest guest]

Dear Varun JiFor Sun+Mars You have said :Mars = sun + mercurySun = mercury + venusIf you notice this combination is all mercury and venus , both enemies of the moon.Therefore it is natural that this combination will not be conducive for moon.My question is If Mercury and Venus (as Masnooyi constituents) are responsible for making Moon weak In Sun+Mar combination, then why the same condition is not applicable in Mercury+Venus combination in the chart? Why it is specially mentioned in the Sun+Mars combination only?RespectfullyYograj Prabhakar--- On Sun, 6/22/08, varun_trvd <varun_trvd wrote:varun_trvd <varun_trvdLK discussion

group Re:Devising the form of an upaya / Pt. Umesh Sharma ji Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 10:56 PM

 

Respected finn saheb,

 

Thank you so much for adding a new perspective to the explanation.

Yes, you are right; this is the reason why taking the help of

jupiter has been suggested.

 

Regards,

 

Varun Trivedi

 

, "Finn Wandahl"

<finn.wandahl@ ...> wrote:

>

> Dear Varun Trivedi,

>

> >>...[ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says: "Ketu mande ho madad

guru

> ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho". Here Jupiter is used to

strengthen

> ketu. There is nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

> practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

strengthening

> another friendly planet...<<

>

>

> Sure, this is a sound explanation. But perhaps there is more to

it. an

> additional explanation could be that Ketu is debilitated in the 3rd

> house, and therefore Jupiter could be suggested to strengten Ketu,

> because Jupiter rules the 9th house (Sagittarius) where Ketu is

> exalted. This way exaltation would undo debilitation, so to speak.

>

> :-)

>

> Finn Wandahl

>

>

> , "varun_trvd"

> <varun_trvd@ > wrote:

> >

> >

> > Respected Umesh ji,

> >

> >

> >

> > My views on the issues you have raised.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > [ 1 ] Lal Kitab varshphal sarini :

> >

> >

> >

> > In traditional vedic Jyotish there are quite a few

> >

> > methods prevalent for working out the Varshphal

> >

> > kundali. The Lal Kitab has suggested yet another

> >

> > method. Therefore there is nothing unusual or

> >

> > surprising about the method.

> >

> >

> >

> > The major question is what could have been the

> >

> > logic or the arithmetic applied to generate the table.

> >

> > We know that unless there was some formula the

> >

> > table could not have been generated. We do not

> >

> > know the formula as yet. But sure one day the

> >

> > formula would be known. Till such time the formula

> >

> > used is found out, let us not treat the sarini as some

> >

> > thing super natural. There is nothing mystical or

> >

> > super natural about it. It is an ordinary table; there are

> >

> > hundreds of such tables used in the traditional astrology

> >

> >

> >

> > [ 2 ] For sun + mars the book says :

> >

> >

> >

> > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho

> >

> >

> >

> > This is simple to explain, have a look at what

> >

> > constitutes these two planets.

> >

> >

> >

> > Mars = sun + mercury

> >

> > Sun = mercury + venus

> >

> >

> >

> > If you notice this combination is all mercury

> >

> > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore

> >

> > it is natural that this combination will not be

> >

> > conducive for moon.

> >

> >

> >

> > [ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says :

> >

> >

> >

> > Ketu mande ho madad guru ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho

> >

> >

> >

> > Here Jupiter is used to strengthen ketu. There is

> >

> > nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

> >

> > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

> >

> > strengthening another friendly planet.

> >

> >

> >

> > With great respect and regards,

> >

> >

> >

> > Varun Trivedi

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Varun Ji,You have taken Sun + Mars equation asMars = sun + mercurySun = mercury + VenusThis can also be taken asMars = Sun + SaturnSun = Mercury + VenusYoursShiv Dev Kalsi

On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 9:04 PM, varun_trvd <varun_trvd wrote:

 

 

 

 

Respected Yograj ji,

This is how we have understood the problem.

May be you have a different approach which

we all would love to hear about.

 

If the sun gets associated with the combination

of mercury and venus, it will make the combination

malefic. The book says:

 

Uttam barabar asar dono ka, drishti ravi na karata jo

 

[ 1952 urdu ed : page 856 line #4 ]

 

Therefore if in a kundali mercury and venus are

together and if they get associated with the sun in

any capacity, then moon will get the brunt. Moon

will be the ultimate bali ka bakara.

 

{In the equation I had worked out for sun+ mars,

sun itself is one of the components of that break up.}

 

Whether this has been specifically mentioned in the

book or not is a different matter. Most of the things

have been left to the intelligence of the reader. They

should use deductive logic to get at the conclusion.

 

This is how we have understood it. May be you have

got a different understanding. We would love to hear

your views too on both these issues : Mars + sun and

the moon getting affected; and mercury + venus and

no mention of moon getting affected.

 

With respect and regards,

 

Varun Trivedi

 

 

 

 

 

 

, Yograj Prabhakar <yr_prabhakar wrote:>> Dear Varun Ji

> > For Sun+Mars You have said :> > Mars = sun + mercury> Sun = mercury + venus> > If you notice this combination is all mercury and venus , both enemies of the moon.Therefore it is natural that this combination will not be conducive for moon.

> > > My question is If Mercury and Venus (as Masnooyi constituents) are responsible for making Moon weak In Sun+Mar combination, then why the same condition is not applicable in Mercury+Venus combination in the chart? Why it is specially mentioned in the Sun+Mars combination only?

> > > Respectfully> Yograj Prabhakar> > > --- On Sun, 6/22/08, varun_trvd varun_trvd wrote:> varun_trvd varun_trvd

> LK discussion group Re:Devising the form of an upaya / Pt. Umesh Sharma ji> > Sunday, June 22, 2008, 10:56 PM

> > > > > > > > > > > > Respected finn saheb,> > > > Thank you so much for adding a new perspective to the explanation.

> > Yes, you are right; this is the reason why taking the help of > > jupiter has been suggested.> > > > Regards,> > > > Varun Trivedi>

> > > , " Finn Wandahl " > > <finn.wandahl@ ...> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Varun Trivedi,>

> > > > > >>...[ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says: " Ketu mande ho madad > > guru> > > ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho " . Here Jupiter is used to

> > strengthen> > > ketu. There is nothing unusual in that. This is a very common> > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for > > strengthening

> > > another friendly planet...<<> > > > > > > > > Sure, this is a sound explanation. But perhaps there is more to > > it. an>

> > additional explanation could be that Ketu is debilitated in the 3rd> > > house, and therefore Jupiter could be suggested to strengten Ketu,> > > because Jupiter rules the 9th house (Sagittarius) where Ketu is

> > > exalted. This way exaltation would undo debilitation, so to speak.> > > > > > :-)> > > > > > Finn Wandahl> > > >

> > > > > , " varun_trvd " > > > <varun_trvd@ > wrote:> > > >> > > > > > > > Respected Umesh ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My views on the issues you have raised.> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > [ 1 ] Lal Kitab varshphal sarini :> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In traditional vedic Jyotish there are quite a few

> > > > > > > > methods prevalent for working out the Varshphal> > > > > > > > kundali. The Lal Kitab has suggested yet another> > > >

> > > > method. Therefore there is nothing unusual or> > > > > > > > surprising about the method.> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The major question is what could have been the> > > > > > > > logic or the arithmetic applied to generate the table.> > > >

> > > > We know that unless there was some formula the> > > > > > > > table could not have been generated. We do not> > > > > > > > know the formula as yet. But sure one day the

> > > > > > > > formula would be known. Till such time the formula> > > > > > > > used is found out, let us not treat the sarini as some>

> > > > > > > thing super natural. There is nothing mystical or> > > > > > > > super natural about it. It is an ordinary table; there are> > > >

> > > > hundreds of such tables used in the traditional astrology> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [ 2 ] For sun + mars the book says :

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > This is simple to explain, have a look at what> > > > > > > > constitutes these two planets.> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Mars = sun + mercury> > > > > > > > Sun = mercury + venus> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury> > > > > > > > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore> > > > > > > > it is natural that this combination will not be

> > > > > > > > conducive for moon.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says :

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ketu mande ho madad guru ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Here Jupiter is used to strengthen ketu. There is> > > > > > > > nothing unusual in that. This is a very common> > > >

> > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for> > > > > > > > strengthening another friendly planet.> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > With great respect and regards,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi>

> >>

 

 

-- Dr. Shiv Dev Kalsi,Jyotish Rishi (AIFAS)Consultant (Vedic Astrology)

[Guest guest]

Dear Raheja ji,I maybe wrong, but what I wrote is absolutely correct. Read page no. 169 of LK-1952, first 6 lines after the table. There is a special mention of Suraj+Mangal combination. You will then perhaps came to know who was wrong. For your ready reference I am quoting the text from the page:"Mandarja zail Mushtarka grehon se unke saamnney diye huye khana number ka asar paida hoga, doosrey lafzon mein unke saamney diye huye khana number ka asar unhein zarur bahaal kar dega khwah wo kisi hi ghar mein ikatthey kyon na hon..yaani Suraj Mangal ke liye khana number 1 mein jo asar likha hai ya baghair kisi greh ke talluq se khana number 1 ki jo aam taseer muqarrar ki gayi hai woh suraj mangal mushtarka ke asar mein zarur khandani khoon ki tarah bahaal lenge khwaah woh dono mushtarka grah kisi bhi ghar mein aur kisi bhi tarah kitney hi mandey kyon

na hon."Rahi baat scientific approach ki toh mere Dost, Pehle bani prarabdh peechey bana shaeer. Astha aur Vishwas ka mukaam kisi bhi science se bahut oopar ka hota hai kyon ki ye doni kisi scientific approach ke mohtaaj nahi hotey. I have nothing more to add.Good luckYograj Prabhakar--- On Thu, 6/26/08, girish_raheja <girish_raheja wrote:girish_raheja <girish_rahejaLK discussion group Re:Devising the form of an upaya / SUN+MARS Date: Thursday, June 26, 2008, 3:28 PM

 

Shri Yograj ji,

 

You are wrong. In the grammar portion there is no mention that

special powers have been granted to the combination of sun and mars

which is denied to other planet combinations.

I can not help if you think that our approach in this group is not

scientific. I would love to see any article from you explaining a

Lal Kitab concept in a manner you think is scientific.

At least I also do not care about what others think about me. I am

no less an Abdulla deewana.

 

Sincerely,

 

Girish raheja

 

, Yograj Prabhakar

<yr_prabhakar@ ...> wrote:

>

> Mukhi Jee

>

> Please read the Suraj+Mangal combination carefully in the grammar

portion. And read what special status is given to Suraj+Mangal

combination. And also read carefully the results of this combination

in the 1st house.

>

> If you are interested in Scientific approach you must use the 1-2-

3-4 technique instead of using any arbitrary approach.

>

> If you feel some people (Lal kitabists) are not happy with you,

why you should be worried? Once should continue with his endeavor

instead of thinking about these petty things. Look at me, I often

found my self as "Begani Shadi Mein Abdullah Deewana...." but I

continue to express myself. I will continue to do so till I am not

thrown away.

>

> Sincerely

> Yograj Prabhakar

>

>

>

>

>

> --- On Wed, 6/25/08, girish_raheja <girish_raheja@ ...> wrote:

> girish_raheja <girish_raheja@ ...>

> LK discussion group Re:Devising the form of an upaya /

SUN+MARS

>

> Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 7:25 PM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Shri Yograj ji,

>

>

>

> Scientific enquiry and scientific temper leads to the truth, it

>

> dispels vaham. Resistance to it would perpetrate vaham. It is this

>

> approach to shield and keep the book away from scientific scrutiny,

>

> which reduced it to a book of tona-totkas. I know some lalkitabists

>

> are not happy with the way the Lal Kitab is treated in this group.

>

> If they are not, so be it. [ apologies to the moderator]

>

> In your quote on farzee vaham you had missed out the words kitab ke

>

> bagair. All discussions in this group have been within the limits

of

>

> the book. In no other Lal Kitab group the book has so often been

>

> quoted as in this group; so much so we had to request the moderator

>

> to give the page numbers from the Arun Sanhita also, because most

of

>

> us do not know how to read Urdu.

>

> You can not call using Masnuyee concepts as adventurous simply

>

> because you or others have not used the concept to understand the

>

> logic behind the upaya. As a matter of fact it is for the first

time

>

> we learnt how to use this concept in this group. You might think it

>

> as adventurous, but for us the young learners it is innovative. I

>

> hope you know the difference of spirit between the two.

>

> Shri Prabhakar ji, you have turned down the logic of shri Varun ji.

>

> It is the easiest thing to do. Even I could turn around and say I

do

>

> not agree. But giving an alternative answer is what is expected if

>

> you disagree. But you have not given your logic for those two

>

> questions which Varun ji had given his logic for.

>

> I hope now you will give your logic for the two questions Gill

sahib

>

> has asked.

>

>

>

> Sincerely,

>

>

>

> Girish Raheja

>

>

>

> , "Yograj Prabhakar"

>

> <yr_prabhakar@ ...> wrote:

>

> >

>

> > Dear Varun Ji

>

> >

>

> > You are free to understand the situation as per your convenience

>

> > and understanding. But I am not convinced with the logic you

>

> > have given by using the Masnooyi technique.

>

> >

>

> > Using this technique of Masnooyi, Antar Masnooyi and Pratayantar

>

> > Masnooyi may look adventurous, but it must be used in the right

>

> > context. You cannot use this thing everywhere. What each

>

> > masnooyi planet represent, how it will work and what are the

>

> > areas of their effects are clearly mentioned in Lal kitab.

>

> >

>

> > As far as the combination of Sun+Mercury+ Venus is concerned. It

>

> > is clearly mentioned that:

>

> > "Ab Budh ka khali chakkar Suraj ki madad se shukkar ko barbad

>

> > kar dega." LK-1952, page-923).

>

> >

>

> > And Pundit ji too recommended remedy for Sun+Mer+Ven( page no.

925,

>

> > first 6 lines) not Chandar. Why Pundit ji did not considered the

>

> > Qurbani ka Bakra concept? What could be the possible reason? Why

>

> > Shukkar is unable to pass on the bad effects on Chandar in this

>

> > combination? why Chandar is not at all affected?

>

> >

>

> > There maybe a few things left on readers own intelligence, but we

>

> must

>

> > not forget that:

>

> > "....."Farzee manmaani ya Manghadat baat Veham paida karegi, aur

>

> > Veham ka ilaaz shayad hi kahin milta hoga." (LK-1952, page 6,

>

> > Juz-5)

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Respectfully

>

> > Yograj Prabhakar

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > , "varun_trvd"

>

> > <varun_trvd@ > wrote:

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > Respected Yograj ji,

>

> > >

>

> > > This is how we have understood the problem.

>

> > >

>

> > > May be you have a different approach which

>

> > >

>

> > > we all would love to hear about.

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > If the sun gets associated with the combination

>

> > >

>

> > > of mercury and venus, it will make the combination

>

> > >

>

> > > malefic. The book says:

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > Uttam barabar asar dono ka, drishti ravi na karata jo

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > [ 1952 urdu ed : page 856 line #4 ]

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > Therefore if in a kundali mercury and venus are

>

> > >

>

> > > together and if they get associated with the sun in

>

> > >

>

> > > any capacity, then moon will get the brunt. Moon

>

> > >

>

> > > will be the ultimate bali ka bakara.

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > {In the equation I had worked out for sun+ mars,

>

> > >

>

> > > sun itself is one of the components of that break up.}

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > Whether this has been specifically mentioned in the

>

> > >

>

> > > book or not is a different matter. Most of the things

>

> > >

>

> > > have been left to the intelligence of the reader. They

>

> > >

>

> > > should use deductive logic to get at the conclusion.

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > This is how we have understood it. May be you have

>

> > >

>

> > > got a different understanding. We would love to hear

>

> > >

>

> > > your views too on both these issues : Mars + sun and

>

> > >

>

> > > the moon getting affected; and mercury + venus and

>

> > >

>

> > > no mention of moon getting affected.

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > With respect and regards,

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > Varun Trivedi

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > , Yograj Prabhakar

>

> > > <yr_prabhakar@ > wrote:

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Dear Varun Ji

>

> > > >

>

> > > > For Sun+Mars You have said :

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Mars = sun + mercury

>

> > > > Sun = mercury + venus

>

> > > >

>

> > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury and venus ,

both

>

> enemies

>

> > > of the moon.Therefore it is natural that this combination will

>

> not be

>

> > > conducive for moon.

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > My question is If Mercury and Venus (as Masnooyi

constituents)

>

> are

>

> > > responsible for making Moon weak In Sun+Mar combination, then

>

> why the

>

> > > same condition is not applicable in Mercury+Venus combination

in

>

> the

>

> > > chart? Why it is specially mentioned in the Sun+Mars

combination

>

> only?

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Respectfully

>

> > > > Yograj Prabhakar

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > --- On Sun, 6/22/08, varun_trvd varun_trvd@ wrote:

>

> > > > varun_trvd varun_trvd@

>

> > > > LK discussion group Re:Devising the form of an

>

> upaya / Pt.

>

> > > Umesh Sharma ji

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Sunday, June 22, 2008, 10:56 PM

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Respected finn saheb,

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Thank you so much for adding a new perspective to the

>

> explanation.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Yes, you are right; this is the reason why taking the help of

>

> > > >

>

> > > > jupiter has been suggested.

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Regards,

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Varun Trivedi

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > , "Finn Wandahl"

>

> > > >

>

> > > > <finn.wandahl@ ...> wrote:

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > Dear Varun Trivedi,

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >>...[ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says: "Ketu mande ho

>

> madad

>

> > > >

>

> > > > guru

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho". Here Jupiter is used to

>

> > > >

>

> > > > strengthen

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > ketu. There is nothing unusual in that. This is a very

common

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

>

> > > >

>

> > > > strengthening

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > another friendly planet...<<

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > Sure, this is a sound explanation. But perhaps there is

more

>

> to

>

> > > >

>

> > > > it. an

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > additional explanation could be that Ketu is debilitated in

>

> the 3rd

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > house, and therefore Jupiter could be suggested to

strengten

>

> Ketu,

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > because Jupiter rules the 9th house (Sagittarius) where

Ketu

>

> is

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > exalted. This way exaltation would undo debilitation, so to

>

> speak.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > :-)

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > Finn Wandahl

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > , "varun_trvd"

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > <varun_trvd@ > wrote:

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > Respected Umesh ji,

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > My views on the issues you have raised.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > [ 1 ] Lal Kitab varshphal sarini :

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > In traditional vedic Jyotish there are quite a few

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > methods prevalent for working out the Varshphal

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > kundali. The Lal Kitab has suggested yet another

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > method. Therefore there is nothing unusual or

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > surprising about the method.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > The major question is what could have been the

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > logic or the arithmetic applied to generate the table.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > We know that unless there was some formula the

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > table could not have been generated. We do not

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > know the formula as yet. But sure one day the

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > formula would be known. Till such time the formula

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > used is found out, let us not treat the sarini as some

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > thing super natural. There is nothing mystical or

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > super natural about it. It is an ordinary table; there

are

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > hundreds of such tables used in the traditional astrology

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > [ 2 ] For sun + mars the book says :

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > This is simple to explain, have a look at what

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > constitutes these two planets.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > Mars = sun + mercury

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > Sun = mercury + venus

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > it is natural that this combination will not be

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > conducive for moon.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > [ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says :

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > Ketu mande ho madad guru ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > Here Jupiter is used to strengthen ketu. There is

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > strengthening another friendly planet.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > With great respect and regards,

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > Varun Trivedi

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Varun jiThanks for you explanation. Whatever I expressed was in good spirit, not at all to disrupt the proceedings as some of our friends accused. Whatever I wrote is strictly conform to the LK principles and I am firmly stick to it. I never say a word for sake of merely saying and never will be.I must clarify to you and some of our friends that I never participate/debate to prove something. Because the debates are not for proving or disapproving something but to learn from each others experience. As far as Grehphal is concerned, I will not dare to do any manipulation since I am not any Khuda Raseeda person. But I am fully agree with your Scape goat concept.RespectfullyYograj Prabhakar --- On Thu, 6/26/08, varun_trvd <varun_trvd wrote:varun_trvd <varun_trvdLK discussion group Re:Devising the form of an upaya / SUN+MARS Date: Thursday, June 26, 2008, 12:32 PM

 

Respected Yograj ji,

 

In response to what you have written to res Gill Saheb:

 

A) Planets placed in a house and planets associated with a house are

two different thing. The sun and the mars are associated with the

1st house. There is nothing unique about it. It is true about all

the houses. The planets which are associated with a house by virtue

of being either owners or the pakka house will definitely influence

that house. Nothing unique or unusual about it.

 

B) Masnuyee concept applies to every planet irrespective and inspite

of Rasi Phal or Grah Phal. There are no restrictions what so ever

that the concept would apply to one and not to the other.

 

C) A planet which has been turned into a scape goat can not transfer

its ills down any further. Once the moon is reduced to the status of

a scape goat of Venus, it loses its authority to transfer it down to

its friends because it is no longer a free agent. A planet can

transfer its ill down to its scape goat only so long as it is a free

agent and has not been reduced to the status of a scape goat himself.

This is simple logical inference.

 

Regards,

 

Varun Trivedi

 

, Yograj Prabhakar

<yr_prabhakar@ ...> wrote:

>

> Dear Gill Sahib

>

> My apprehension or disagreement is not baseless. Read the grammar

of Lal Kitab carefully, you will find a very unique thing about

Suraj+Mangal combination. The Sun+Mars combination, irrespective of

its placement shall give result of its combination in the 1st house

the chart.

>

> If you are aware of the Grehphal/Rashiphal concept you will find

that the masnooyi technique used by Mr. Varun is not at all

applicable in this case since both sun and Mars are considered as

posited in the 1st house of the chart. So that the "emergence" of

Shukkar+Budh is totally out of context.

>

> As far as transferring the bad effect by Mer+Ven is on Moon is

concerned, my question is why Moon will not tranfer the bads effect

on its Quarbani ka Bakra?

>

> Sincerely

> Yograj Prabhakar

>

>

>

>

>

> --- On Wed, 6/25/08, gill_hs2005 <gill_hs2005@ ...> wrote:

> gill_hs2005 <gill_hs2005@ ...>

> LK discussion group Re:Devising the form of an upaya /

SUN+MARS

>

> Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 6:35 PM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Dear Prabhakar ji,

>

>

>

> It is alright if you do not agree to the logic given by shri Varun

>

> ji. But then could you give your alternate logic to –

>

> A)why would be manda asar on moon if the sun and mars are together?

>

> B)why shukkar apani bala bali ke bakare chanderama par nahi dalega

>

> if venus and mercury ka sath sooraj se ho jaye to?

>

>

>

> Sincerely

>

>

>

> HS Gill

>

>

>

> , "Yograj Prabhakar"

>

> <yr_prabhakar@ ...> wrote:

>

> >

>

> > Dear Varun Ji

>

> >

>

> > You are free to understand the situation as per your convenience

>

> > and understanding. But I am not convinced with the logic you

>

> > have given by using the Masnooyi technique.

>

> >

>

> > Using this technique of Masnooyi, Antar Masnooyi and Pratayantar

>

> > Masnooyi may look adventurous, but it must be used in the right

>

> > context. You cannot use this thing everywhere. What each

>

> > masnooyi planet represent, how it will work and what are the

>

> > areas of their effects are clearly mentioned in Lal kitab.

>

> >

>

> > As far as the combination of Sun+Mercury+ Venus is concerned. It

>

> > is clearly mentioned that:

>

> > "Ab Budh ka khali chakkar Suraj ki madad se shukkar ko barbad

>

> > kar dega." LK-1952, page-923).

>

> >

>

> > And Pundit ji too recommended remedy for Sun+Mer+Ven( page no.

925,

>

> > first 6 lines) not Chandar. Why Pundit ji did not considered the

>

> > Qurbani ka Bakra concept? What could be the possible reason? Why

>

> > Shukkar is unable to pass on the bad effects on Chandar in this

>

> > combination? why Chandar is not at all affected?

>

> >

>

> > There maybe a few things left on readers own intelligence, but

we

>

> must

>

> > not forget that:

>

> > "....."Farzee manmaani ya Manghadat baat Veham paida karegi, aur

>

> > Veham ka ilaaz shayad hi kahin milta hoga." (LK-1952, page 6,

>

> > Juz-5)

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Respectfully

>

> > Yograj Prabhakar

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > , "varun_trvd"

>

> > <varun_trvd@ > wrote:

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > Respected Yograj ji,

>

> > >

>

> > > This is how we have understood the problem.

>

> > >

>

> > > May be you have a different approach which

>

> > >

>

> > > we all would love to hear about.

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > If the sun gets associated with the combination

>

> > >

>

> > > of mercury and venus, it will make the combination

>

> > >

>

> > > malefic. The book says:

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > Uttam barabar asar dono ka, drishti ravi na karata jo

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > [ 1952 urdu ed : page 856 line #4 ]

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > Therefore if in a kundali mercury and venus are

>

> > >

>

> > > together and if they get associated with the sun in

>

> > >

>

> > > any capacity, then moon will get the brunt. Moon

>

> > >

>

> > > will be the ultimate bali ka bakara.

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > {In the equation I had worked out for sun+ mars,

>

> > >

>

> > > sun itself is one of the components of that break up.}

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > Whether this has been specifically mentioned in the

>

> > >

>

> > > book or not is a different matter. Most of the things

>

> > >

>

> > > have been left to the intelligence of the reader. They

>

> > >

>

> > > should use deductive logic to get at the conclusion.

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > This is how we have understood it. May be you have

>

> > >

>

> > > got a different understanding. We would love to hear

>

> > >

>

> > > your views too on both these issues : Mars + sun and

>

> > >

>

> > > the moon getting affected; and mercury + venus and

>

> > >

>

> > > no mention of moon getting affected.

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > With respect and regards,

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > Varun Trivedi

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > , Yograj Prabhakar

>

> > > <yr_prabhakar@ > wrote:

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Dear Varun Ji

>

> > > >

>

> > > > For Sun+Mars You have said :

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Mars = sun + mercury

>

> > > > Sun = mercury + venus

>

> > > >

>

> > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury and venus ,

both

>

> enemies

>

> > > of the moon.Therefore it is natural that this combination will

>

> not be

>

> > > conducive for moon.

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > My question is If Mercury and Venus (as Masnooyi

constituents)

>

> are

>

> > > responsible for making Moon weak In Sun+Mar combination, then

>

> why the

>

> > > same condition is not applicable in Mercury+Venus combination

in

>

> the

>

> > > chart? Why it is specially mentioned in the Sun+Mars

combination

>

> only?

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Respectfully

>

> > > > Yograj Prabhakar

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > --- On Sun, 6/22/08, varun_trvd varun_trvd@ wrote:

>

> > > > varun_trvd varun_trvd@

>

> > > > LK discussion group Re:Devising the form of an

>

> upaya / Pt.

>

> > > Umesh Sharma ji

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Sunday, June 22, 2008, 10:56 PM

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Respected finn saheb,

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Thank you so much for adding a new perspective to the

>

> explanation.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Yes, you are right; this is the reason why taking the help of

>

> > > >

>

> > > > jupiter has been suggested.

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Regards,

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Varun Trivedi

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > , "Finn Wandahl"

>

> > > >

>

> > > > <finn.wandahl@ ...> wrote:

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > Dear Varun Trivedi,

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >>...[ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says: "Ketu mande ho

>

> madad

>

> > > >

>

> > > > guru

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho". Here Jupiter is used to

>

> > > >

>

> > > > strengthen

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > ketu. There is nothing unusual in that. This is a very

common

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

>

> > > >

>

> > > > strengthening

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > another friendly planet...<<

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > Sure, this is a sound explanation. But perhaps there is

more

>

> to

>

> > > >

>

> > > > it. an

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > additional explanation could be that Ketu is debilitated

in

>

> the 3rd

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > house, and therefore Jupiter could be suggested to

strengten

>

> Ketu,

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > because Jupiter rules the 9th house (Sagittarius) where

Ketu

>

> is

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > exalted. This way exaltation would undo debilitation, so

to

>

> speak.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > :-)

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > Finn Wandahl

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > , "varun_trvd"

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > <varun_trvd@ > wrote:

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > Respected Umesh ji,

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > My views on the issues you have raised.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > [ 1 ] Lal Kitab varshphal sarini :

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > In traditional vedic Jyotish there are quite a few

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > methods prevalent for working out the Varshphal

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > kundali. The Lal Kitab has suggested yet another

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > method. Therefore there is nothing unusual or

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > surprising about the method.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > The major question is what could have been the

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > logic or the arithmetic applied to generate the table.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > We know that unless there was some formula the

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > table could not have been generated. We do not

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > know the formula as yet. But sure one day the

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > formula would be known. Till such time the formula

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > used is found out, let us not treat the sarini as some

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > thing super natural. There is nothing mystical or

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > super natural about it. It is an ordinary table; there

are

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > hundreds of such tables used in the traditional astrology

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > [ 2 ] For sun + mars the book says :

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho

>

> > > >

>

> > > > > >

>

> > > >

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> > > > > > This is simple to explain, have a look at what

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> > > > > > constitutes these two planets.

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> > > > > > Mars = sun + mercury

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> > > > > > Sun = mercury + venus

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> > > > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury

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> > > > > > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore

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> > > > > > it is natural that this combination will not be

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> > > > > > conducive for moon.

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> > > > > > [ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says :

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> > > > > > Ketu mande ho madad guru ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho

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> > > > > > Here Jupiter is used to strengthen ketu. There is

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> > > > > > nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

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> > > > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

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> > > > > > strengthening another friendly planet.

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> > > > > > With great respect and regards,

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> > > > > > Varun Trivedi

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