Re:Devising the form of an upaya / Gill Saheb

[Guest guest]

Respected Gill Saheb,

 

You have said :

 

Agar chander 4 hai aur rahu 10 mein to budh par

gaaz kyon giri ? budh ka talluk na to khana 4 se

hai aur nahi khana 10 se. budh in dono gharon

mein bhi nahi hai to phir budh ki ashiya, karobar ya

rishtedar par bura asar kaise padega?

 

Translated as:

 

If the moon is placed in the 4th and the rahu in the 10th,

then why should the significations of mercury suffer?

Mercury is not associated with either with the 4th or the

10th house; mercury is not even placed in either of these

houses and still how would mercury get affected in

this situation

 

[ a ] While studying the Lal Kitab always remember

that things which may not be apparent on the face of it,

will have to be understood through the principle of

masnuyee planets. In such cases always try to understand

things through applying the Masnuyee concept. The

concept of masnuyee planets is a very important aspect

of the book.

 

You have rightly said that on the face of it, there is no

mercury perceptible. But now let us have a look again.

 

Moon in the 4th house will have an aspect of assimilation

[ mangal ki milawat] on Rahu in the 10th house. What will

be the resultant shape :

 

Moon = sun + jupiter

When this gets assimilated with rahu, it will also result

in jupiter+rahu which in turn will form a masnuyee Mercury.

 

Now you see where the mercury comes from. And it is

because of this resultant mercury that the book says moon will

have an adverse effect on the significations of mercury

 

These are our views; would love to hear from other

scholars if they could throw some new light on this subject

 

Regards,

 

Varun Trivedi

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, "gill_hs2005" <gill_hs2005 wrote:>> Sir Umesh Sharma ji,> > > 1. page no 386 Moon in 4th house> > Manda asar> > Note #3. Sar Fat jaye, Rahu ka manda asar Budh ( Budh ki > Aashiyaan,> > Karobaar ya Rishtedaar__ Mutlka budh) par hoga { Rahu Khana # 10}> > > Agar chander 4 hai aur rahu 10 mein to budh par gaaz kyon giri ? > budh ka talluk na to khana 4 se hai aur nahi khana 10 se. budh in > dono gharon mein bhi nahi hai to phir budh ki ashiya, karobar ya > rishtedar par bura asar kaise padega?> > Sincerely,> > HS Gill> > > > > > , "Umesh Sharma" > mudit982001@ wrote:> >> > Respected Sir,> > Now there are two Statements in this regards> > 1. page no 386 Moon in 4th house> > Manda asar> > Note #3. Sar Fat jaye, Rahu ka manda asar Budh ( Budh ki > Aashiyaan,> > Karobaar ya Rishtedaar__ Mutlka budh) par hoga { Rahu Khana # 10}> > 2. RAHU in house # 10 :> > 1952 urdu ed : Page 680 ; note # 9> > Khyali dimagi dhuan bayas pareshani – dimagh> > phate ya sar kate ya nazar gum ho jave- aur dhan> > daulat par bijli ki tarah manda asar hoga> > [ Chandra khana # 4 ]> > HOW TO DECIDE WHICH STATEMENT IS APPLICABLE?> > Bhai yograj ji ki baat bilkul sahi hey par mere hisab se Grah ka > Khana> > main akele bethe hone par honi chahiye. Yahan par to Rahu Chandar > se> > drishat ho raha hey. May be i wrong.> > > With> > Regards> > > > Umesh Sharma> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > #1. Moon in 4th and rahu in 10th> > > > > > > > > > , "varun_trvd"> > <varun_trvd@> wrote:> > >> > >> > > Respected Umesh ji,> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > RAHU in house # 10 :> > >> > >> > >> > > 1952 urdu ed : Page 680 ; note # 9> > >> > >> > >> > > Khyali dimagi dhuan bayas pareshani – dimagh> > >> > > phate ya sar kate ya nazar gum ho jave- aur dhan> > >> > > daulat par bijli ki tarah manda asar hoga> > >> > >> > >> > > [ Chandra khana # 4 ]> > >> > >> > >> > > While answering to Wandahl ji, the context he> > >> > > had asked me to explain from was Rahu in the> > >> > > 10th house. Therefore I had translated the above> > >> > > lines from the book into English for my answer.> > >> > >> > >> > > With great respect and regards,> > >> > >> > >> > > Varun Trivedi> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > , "Umesh Sharma"> > > mudit982001@ wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Respected Varun ji,> > > > If Moon in 4th and Rahu in 10th the result is> > > > " Sir Fat Jaye, Rahu ka bura asar Budh ( Budh ki Aashiayan, > Karobaar> > > ya> > > > Rishtedar mutlka Budh ) par hoga." page no 388 edi.1952, > chandrma> > > Khana> > > > no. 4, Mandi halat Term no. 3.> > > > Kyonki Rahu jab jab Chandrma se Drishat hoga ya mushtrka hoga > vah> > Budh> > > > ko khrab karega.> > > > Gustakhi ki Kashma chahta hoon.> > > >> > > > Regards> > > >> > > > Umesh Sharma> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > , "varun_trvd"> > > > varun_trvd@ wrote:> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Respected Wandahl saheb,> > > > >> > > > > Many thanks for your response. It is a> > > > > pleasure reading your views.> > > > >> > > > > You have asked ;> > > > >> > > > > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the> > > > > 10th it is mentioned that Upay> > > > > of Mars would be beneficial if there> > > > > is also Moon in the 4th house. Do you> > > > > know the reason for this? I think it> > > > > is difficult to grasp.> > > > >> > > > > As I understand basically it means that> > > > > in case moon is in the 4th while the> > > > > Rahu is in the 10th then it would result in:> > > > >> > > > > Foggy and unrealistic thoughts, brain> > > > > splitting agony, weak eyes, diminished> > > > > wealth.> > > > >> > > > > If you notice the areas most> > > > > affected are the karaks of the moon and> > > > > the reason being that Rahu will have an> > > > > aspect on the moon.> > > > >> > > > > If that happens then the Mars upaya> > > > > should be done> > > > >> > > > > with respect and regards,> > > > >> > > > > Varun Trivedi> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > , "Finn Wandahl"> > > > > finn.wandahl@ wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Mr. Varun Trivedi,> > > > > >> > > > > > Thank you for this very inspirating article on Upaya, > which I> > like> > > > to> > > > > > say a few things about. However, I have a rather liberal> > approach> > > to> > > > > > Upaya as I consider the Upayas mentioned in Lal Kitab to be> > merely> > > > > > suggestions and guidelines meant to stimulate the > intuition,> > > empathy> > > > > > and discriminative power of the astrologer to make him > create> > his> > > > own> > > > > > remedies depending upon the circumstances, time and place > of> > each> > > > > > individual client.> > > > > >> > > > > > You have given Saturn in the 7th house as an example. But> > normally> > > I> > > > > > would perhaps not be much concerned about that. After all > it is> > > Ucha> > > > > > (exalted) and even if the 1st house was empty thus making > this> > > > Saturn> > > > > > sleeping or dormant it would not cause too much alarm > except> > > perhaps> > > > > > if Ketu was ahead of Saturn thereby turning it malefic. In > that> > > case> > > > I> > > > > > might even consider Ketu the problem, since Ketu is what > made> > this> > > > > > Saturn Malefic.> > > > > >> > > > > > Then you say something very interesting about Rahu in > kendras> > > where> > > > > > the planet that gets exalted in the house occupied by Rahu> > should> > > be> > > > > > considered for Upay. However, regarding Rahu in the first, > it is> > > > > > alreading said in Lal Kitab that the Sun would be > eclipsed, not> > > the> > > > > > Sun itself but the house occupied by the Sun.> > > > > >> > > > > > In annual charts, however, I have often had the > experience, that> > > it> > > > is> > > > > > really the Sun itself that gets eclipsed and destroyed > when Rahu> > > is> > > > in> > > > > > the first rather than the house occupied by the Sun. Rahu > coming> > > to> > > > > > the 1st house can really destroy the rank and position of a> > > person.> > > > > >> > > > > > However, the problem with Rahu in the 1st in the context > of Upay> > > is> > > > > > that the Sun is both significator of the first house and > also> > > > exalted> > > > > > there at the same time, and it make little difference if we> > > involve> > > > it> > > > > > in Upay for one reason or the other as long as it is the > same> > > > planet.> > > > > >> > > > > > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the 10th it is mentioned > that> > > Upay> > > > > > of Mars would be beneficial if there is also Moon in the > 4th> > > house.> > > > Do> > > > > > you know the reason for this? I think it is difficult to > grasp.> > > > > >> > > > > > Then if Rahu was in the 7th house, Saturn would hardly be > my> > first> > > > > > choice for remedy even though it is exalted there. I would > no> > > doubt> > > > > > consider Venus first and perhaps also Mercury if daughters > or> > > > sisters> > > > > > were involved.> > > > > >> > > > > > Rahu in the 4th by itself should not be a problem as it has> > takes> > > > this> > > > > > oath not to cause evil when alone or with the Moon in 4th > house.> > I> > > > > > don't know if remedy of Jupiter could be used in case of > Rahu> > > being> > > > > > malefic in the 4th. I think Moon or perhaps Saturn would > be my> > > first> > > > > > choice in such a case.> > > > > >> > > > > > Best regards,> > > > > > Finn Wandahl> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > , "varun_trvd"> > > > > > varun_trvd@ wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Respected members,> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Devising the form of upaya:> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Lal Kitab 1952 urdu ed page 620 last lines :> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Saturn in the 7th house> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Khand se bharkar bansari bahar veerane mein> > > > > > >> > > > > > > dabana mubarik, basharte ki Shanishchar soya> > > > > > >> > > > > > > na ho; agar soya ho to shahad ke bartan ka> > > > > > >> > > > > > > upaya madadgar hoga> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > At the first reading it would appear that if the> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Saturn is not dormant [ soya hua] then bury in> > > > > > >> > > > > > > a barren place a flute filled with desi sugar [ khand ] ;> > > > > > >> > > > > > > if the Saturn is dormant then bury a pot filled with > honey.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > But it is not so. That is not the correct understanding> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > So much so a well known Lal Kitab scholar> > > > > > >> > > > > > > made a slip when he wrote in his book for Saturn in 7th:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > kisi bartan ko shahad se bharkar bahar> > > > > > >> > > > > > > dabane ka upaya sahayak hoga> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > The correct upaya is to establish at home in> > > > > > >> > > > > > > the south west corner a pot filled with honey.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Thus the correct upaya is establishing and not burying.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > This has already been discussed here in the group.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Those who wish to read the logic behind establishing> > > > > > >> > > > > > > can go to the archives and read.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > I began by giving this example to show how> > > > > > >> > > > > > > difficult it is to devise an upaya and more so to> > > > > > >> > > > > > > decide the form of upaya> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > In most cases, the Lal Kitab does not> > > > > > >> > > > > > > explain the form of upaya to be done. It just> > > > > > >> > > > > > > suggests that the upaya for such-n-such planet> > > > > > >> > > > > > > be done e.g. mangal ka upaya madadgar hoga.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > This statement by itself is not very helpful. It is> > > > > > >> > > > > > > the Lalkitabist who has to decide the form of this> > > > > > >> > > > > > > mangal ka upaya. He has to decide whether the> > > > > > >> > > > > > > karaks of mangal are to be immersed in flowing> > > > > > >> > > > > > > water, or gifted at a temple or buried and so on.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > The upaya devised has to be correct and effective.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > This needs a very good understanding of the> > > > > > >> > > > > > > system and a very wide experience.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Let me explain this with an example :> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > For Rahu placed in the Kendra houses, it is advised> > > > > > >> > > > > > > that the upaya should be done of the planet which> > > > > > >> > > > > > > gets exalted in that house.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Therefore, if the Rahu is placed in the 1st house> > > > > > >> > > > > > > and has been identified as malefic then surya ka> > > > > > >> > > > > > > upaya madadgar hoga. Now what should be the> > > > > > >> > > > > > > form of this surya ka upaya. Should we immerse> > > > > > >> > > > > > > the karaks of the Sun in flowing water, or should> > > > > > >> > > > > > > we bury the karaks of the sun, or should we offer> > > > > > >> > > > > > > the karaks of the sun at a temple, or any other> > > > > > >> > > > > > > form of upaya to be devised.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Thankfully in this case it has been indicated that> > > > > > >> > > > > > > the karaks of the Sun should be gifted at a temple.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > This is done to strengthen the Sun so that he> > > > > > >> > > > > > > could withstand the eclipsing ability of Rahu.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > But for the same Rahu in the 10th house the book says:> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > khali mandir se rahu sota, tez swabhav manda ho> > > > > > >> > > > > > > mitra grah par keechad deta, upaya mangal ka uttam ho> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Now in this case no indication has been given as to> > > > > > >> > > > > > > what will be the form of mangal ka upaya, like the> > > > > > >> > > > > > > in the case of Rahu in the 1st house where gifting the> > > > > > >> > > > > > > karaks of Sun has been indicated. Will gifting the karaks> > > > > > >> > > > > > > of mangal at any temple be a correct upaya?> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > If not, then what should be the form of the upaya ?> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > A rahu placed in the 10th can not do any damage to> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Saturn but it will definitely harm the significations> > > > > > >> > > > > > > of the 10th house, be it a job or name or fame. > Therefore,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > if the rahu is adjudged as malefic, then an upaya> > > > > > >> > > > > > > will become necessary. So what would be the form> > > > > > >> > > > > > > of the upaya. We know that mangal will help, but in> > > > > > >> > > > > > > what form? It is the Lalkitabist who has to decide the> > > > > > >> > > > > > > form of the upaya.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Since the book says:> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Rahu ka manda asar teve wale par nahi hoga :> > > > > > >> > > > > > > jab mangal nek ho> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > In this case the Rahu has to be brought under control> > > > > > >> > > > > > > such that it is not able to damage the significations of> > > > > > >> > > > > > > the 10th house. Since Mangal shubh alone can control> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Rahu therefore the karak of mangal shubh has to be> > > > > > >> > > > > > > established at home, keep at home a little honey> > > > > > >> > > > > > > in a silver dibbi towards the west. This upaya will> > > > > > >> > > > > > > keep the belligerent Rahu under control.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Now you know the difference. In one case it is gifting> > > > > > >> > > > > > > the karaks which would be an effective upaya where as> > > > > > >> > > > > > > in the next case it is establishing a karak would be an> > > > > > >> > > > > > > effective upaya.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Therefore devising upaya is a science which a> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Lalkitabist has to learn. It comes with time and> > > > > > >> > > > > > > experience. That is why upaya suggested through> > > > > > >> > > > > > > ready reckoners do not work.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Regards,> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Varun Trivedi> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Sir Umesh Sharma ji & Varun ji

 

Many thanks for explaining the concept so beautifully.

 

greatfully,

 

HS Gill

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, " varun_trvd "

<varun_trvd wrote:

>

> Respected Gill Saheb,

>

>

>

> You have said :

>

>

>

> Agar chander 4 hai aur rahu 10 mein to budh par

>

> gaaz kyon giri ? budh ka talluk na to khana 4 se

>

> hai aur nahi khana 10 se. budh in dono gharon

>

> mein bhi nahi hai to phir budh ki ashiya, karobar ya

>

> rishtedar par bura asar kaise padega?

>

>

>

> Translated as:

>

>

>

> If the moon is placed in the 4th and the rahu in the 10th,

>

> then why should the significations of mercury suffer?

>

> Mercury is not associated with either with the 4th or the

>

> 10th house; mercury is not even placed in either of these

>

> houses and still how would mercury get affected in

>

> this situation

>

>

>

> While studying the Lal Kitab always remember

>

> that things which may not be apparent on the face of it,

>

> will have to be understood through the principle of

>

> masnuyee planets. In such cases always try to understand

>

> things through applying the Masnuyee concept. The

>

> concept of masnuyee planets is a very important aspect

>

> of the book.

>

>

>

> You have rightly said that on the face of it, there is no

>

> mercury perceptible. But now let us have a look again.

>

>

>

> Moon in the 4th house will have an aspect of assimilation

>

> [ mangal ki milawat] on Rahu in the 10th house. What will

>

> be the resultant shape :

>

>

>

> Moon = sun + jupiter

>

> When this gets assimilated with rahu, it will also result

>

> in jupiter+rahu which in turn will form a masnuyee Mercury.

>

>

>

> Now you see where the mercury comes from. And it is

>

> because of this resultant mercury that the book says moon will

>

> have an adverse effect on the significations of mercury

>

>

>

> These are our views; would love to hear from other

>

> scholars if they could throw some new light on this subject

>

>

>

> Regards,

>

>

>

> Varun Trivedi

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

, " gill_hs2005 "

> <gill_hs2005@> wrote:

> >

> > Sir Umesh Sharma ji,

> >

> > > 1. page no 386 Moon in 4th house

> > > Manda asar

> > > Note #3. Sar Fat jaye, Rahu ka manda asar Budh ( Budh ki

> > Aashiyaan,

> > > Karobaar ya Rishtedaar__ Mutlka budh) par hoga { Rahu Khana #

10}

> >

> >

> > Agar chander 4 hai aur rahu 10 mein to budh par gaaz kyon giri ?

> > budh ka talluk na to khana 4 se hai aur nahi khana 10 se. budh in

> > dono gharon mein bhi nahi hai to phir budh ki ashiya, karobar ya

> > rishtedar par bura asar kaise padega?

> >

> > Sincerely,

> >

> > HS Gill

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , " Umesh Sharma "

> > mudit982001@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Respected Sir,

> > > Now there are two Statements in this regards

> > > 1. page no 386 Moon in 4th house

> > > Manda asar

> > > Note #3. Sar Fat jaye, Rahu ka manda asar Budh ( Budh ki

> > Aashiyaan,

> > > Karobaar ya Rishtedaar__ Mutlka budh) par hoga { Rahu Khana #

10}

> > > 2. RAHU in house # 10 :

> > > 1952 urdu ed : Page 680 ; note # 9

> > > Khyali dimagi dhuan bayas pareshani – dimagh

> > > phate ya sar kate ya nazar gum ho jave- aur dhan

> > > daulat par bijli ki tarah manda asar hoga

> > > [ Chandra khana # 4 ]

> > > HOW TO DECIDE WHICH STATEMENT IS APPLICABLE?

> > > Bhai yograj ji ki baat bilkul sahi hey par mere hisab se Grah

ka

> > Khana

> > > main akele bethe hone par honi chahiye. Yahan par to Rahu

Chandar

> > se

> > > drishat ho raha hey. May be i wrong.

> > >

> > With

> > > Regards

> > >

> > > Umesh Sharma

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > #1. Moon in 4th and rahu in 10th

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > , " varun_trvd "

> > > <varun_trvd@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Respected Umesh ji,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > RAHU in house # 10 :

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 1952 urdu ed : Page 680 ; note # 9

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Khyali dimagi dhuan bayas pareshani – dimagh

> > > >

> > > > phate ya sar kate ya nazar gum ho jave- aur dhan

> > > >

> > > > daulat par bijli ki tarah manda asar hoga

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > [ Chandra khana # 4 ]

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > While answering to Wandahl ji, the context he

> > > >

> > > > had asked me to explain from was Rahu in the

> > > >

> > > > 10th house. Therefore I had translated the above

> > > >

> > > > lines from the book into English for my answer.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > With great respect and regards,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , " Umesh Sharma "

> > > > mudit982001@ wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Respected Varun ji,

> > > > > If Moon in 4th and Rahu in 10th the result is

> > > > > " Sir Fat Jaye, Rahu ka bura asar Budh ( Budh ki Aashiayan,

> > Karobaar

> > > > ya

> > > > > Rishtedar mutlka Budh ) par hoga. " page no 388 edi.1952,

> > chandrma

> > > > Khana

> > > > > no. 4, Mandi halat Term no. 3.

> > > > > Kyonki Rahu jab jab Chandrma se Drishat hoga ya mushtrka

hoga

> > vah

> > > Budh

> > > > > ko khrab karega.

> > > > > Gustakhi ki Kashma chahta hoon.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards

> > > > >

> > > > > Umesh Sharma

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > , " varun_trvd "

> > > > > varun_trvd@ wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Respected Wandahl saheb,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Many thanks for your response. It is a

> > > > > > pleasure reading your views.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You have asked ;

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the

> > > > > > 10th it is mentioned that Upay

> > > > > > of Mars would be beneficial if there

> > > > > > is also Moon in the 4th house. Do you

> > > > > > know the reason for this? I think it

> > > > > > is difficult to grasp.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As I understand basically it means that

> > > > > > in case moon is in the 4th while the

> > > > > > Rahu is in the 10th then it would result in:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Foggy and unrealistic thoughts, brain

> > > > > > splitting agony, weak eyes, diminished

> > > > > > wealth.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If you notice the areas most

> > > > > > affected are the karaks of the moon and

> > > > > > the reason being that Rahu will have an

> > > > > > aspect on the moon.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If that happens then the Mars upaya

> > > > > > should be done

> > > > > >

> > > > > > with respect and regards,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

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> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , " Finn

Wandahl "

> > > > > > finn.wandahl@ wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Mr. Varun Trivedi,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thank you for this very inspirating article on Upaya,

> > which I

> > > like

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > say a few things about. However, I have a rather

liberal

> > > approach

> > > > to

> > > > > > > Upaya as I consider the Upayas mentioned in Lal Kitab

to be

> > > merely

> > > > > > > suggestions and guidelines meant to stimulate the

> > intuition,

> > > > empathy

> > > > > > > and discriminative power of the astrologer to make him

> > create

> > > his

> > > > > own

> > > > > > > remedies depending upon the circumstances, time and

place

> > of

> > > each

> > > > > > > individual client.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You have given Saturn in the 7th house as an example.

But

> > > normally

> > > > I

> > > > > > > would perhaps not be much concerned about that. After

all

> > it is

> > > > Ucha

> > > > > > > (exalted) and even if the 1st house was empty thus

making

> > this

> > > > > Saturn

> > > > > > > sleeping or dormant it would not cause too much alarm

> > except

> > > > perhaps

> > > > > > > if Ketu was ahead of Saturn thereby turning it

malefic. In

> > that

> > > > case

> > > > > I

> > > > > > > might even consider Ketu the problem, since Ketu is

what

> > made

> > > this

> > > > > > > Saturn Malefic.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Then you say something very interesting about Rahu in

> > kendras

> > > > where

> > > > > > > the planet that gets exalted in the house occupied by

Rahu

> > > should

> > > > be

> > > > > > > considered for Upay. However, regarding Rahu in the

first,

> > it is

> > > > > > > alreading said in Lal Kitab that the Sun would be

> > eclipsed, not

> > > > the

> > > > > > > Sun itself but the house occupied by the Sun.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In annual charts, however, I have often had the

> > experience, that

> > > > it

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > really the Sun itself that gets eclipsed and destroyed

> > when Rahu

> > > > is

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > the first rather than the house occupied by the Sun.

Rahu

> > coming

> > > > to

> > > > > > > the 1st house can really destroy the rank and position

of a

> > > > person.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > However, the problem with Rahu in the 1st in the

context

> > of Upay

> > > > is

> > > > > > > that the Sun is both significator of the first house

and

> > also

> > > > > exalted

> > > > > > > there at the same time, and it make little difference

if we

> > > > involve

> > > > > it

> > > > > > > in Upay for one reason or the other as long as it is

the

> > same

> > > > > planet.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the 10th it is

mentioned

> > that

> > > > Upay

> > > > > > > of Mars would be beneficial if there is also Moon in

the

> > 4th

> > > > house.

> > > > > Do

> > > > > > > you know the reason for this? I think it is difficult

to

> > grasp.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Then if Rahu was in the 7th house, Saturn would hardly

be

> > my

> > > first

> > > > > > > choice for remedy even though it is exalted there. I

would

> > no

> > > > doubt

> > > > > > > consider Venus first and perhaps also Mercury if

daughters

> > or

> > > > > sisters

> > > > > > > were involved.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Rahu in the 4th by itself should not be a problem as

it has

> > > takes

> > > > > this

> > > > > > > oath not to cause evil when alone or with the Moon in

4th

> > house.

> > > I

> > > > > > > don't know if remedy of Jupiter could be used in case

of

> > Rahu

> > > > being

> > > > > > > malefic in the 4th. I think Moon or perhaps Saturn

would

> > be my

> > > > first

> > > > > > > choice in such a case.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Best regards,

> > > > > > > Finn Wandahl

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --- In

, " varun_trvd "

> > > > > > > varun_trvd@ wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Respected members,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Devising the form of upaya:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Lal Kitab 1952 urdu ed page 620 last lines :

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Saturn in the 7th house

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Khand se bharkar bansari bahar veerane mein

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > dabana mubarik, basharte ki Shanishchar soya

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > na ho; agar soya ho to shahad ke bartan ka

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > upaya madadgar hoga

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > At the first reading it would appear that if the

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Saturn is not dormant [ soya hua] then bury in

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > a barren place a flute filled with desi sugar [

khand ] ;

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > if the Saturn is dormant then bury a pot filled with

> > honey.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > But it is not so. That is not the correct

understanding

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > So much so a well known Lal Kitab scholar

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > made a slip when he wrote in his book for Saturn in

7th:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > kisi bartan ko shahad se bharkar bahar

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > dabane ka upaya sahayak hoga

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The correct upaya is to establish at home in

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > the south west corner a pot filled with honey.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thus the correct upaya is establishing and not

burying.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > This has already been discussed here in the group.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Those who wish to read the logic behind establishing

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > can go to the archives and read.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I began by giving this example to show how

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > difficult it is to devise an upaya and more so to

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > decide the form of upaya

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > In most cases, the Lal Kitab does not

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > explain the form of upaya to be done. It just

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > suggests that the upaya for such-n-such planet

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > be done e.g. mangal ka upaya madadgar hoga.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > This statement by itself is not very helpful. It is

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > the Lalkitabist who has to decide the form of this

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > mangal ka upaya. He has to decide whether the

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > karaks of mangal are to be immersed in flowing

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > water, or gifted at a temple or buried and so on.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The upaya devised has to be correct and effective.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > This needs a very good understanding of the

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > system and a very wide experience.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Let me explain this with an example :

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > For Rahu placed in the Kendra houses, it is advised

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > that the upaya should be done of the planet which

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > gets exalted in that house.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Therefore, if the Rahu is placed in the 1st house

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > and has been identified as malefic then surya ka

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > upaya madadgar hoga. Now what should be the

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > form of this surya ka upaya. Should we immerse

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > the karaks of the Sun in flowing water, or should

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > we bury the karaks of the sun, or should we offer

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > the karaks of the sun at a temple, or any other

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > form of upaya to be devised.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thankfully in this case it has been indicated that

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > the karaks of the Sun should be gifted at a temple.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > This is done to strengthen the Sun so that he

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > could withstand the eclipsing ability of Rahu.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > But for the same Rahu in the 10th house the book

says:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > khali mandir se rahu sota, tez swabhav manda ho

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > mitra grah par keechad deta, upaya mangal ka uttam ho

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Now in this case no indication has been given as to

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > what will be the form of mangal ka upaya, like the

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > in the case of Rahu in the 1st house where gifting

the

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > karaks of Sun has been indicated. Will gifting the

karaks

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > of mangal at any temple be a correct upaya?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > If not, then what should be the form of the upaya ?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > A rahu placed in the 10th can not do any damage to

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Saturn but it will definitely harm the significations

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > of the 10th house, be it a job or name or fame.

> > Therefore,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > if the rahu is adjudged as malefic, then an upaya

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > will become necessary. So what would be the form

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > of the upaya. We know that mangal will help, but in

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > what form? It is the Lalkitabist who has to decide

the

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > form of the upaya.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Since the book says:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Rahu ka manda asar teve wale par nahi hoga :

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > jab mangal nek ho

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > In this case the Rahu has to be brought under control

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > such that it is not able to damage the

significations of

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > the 10th house. Since Mangal shubh alone can control

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Rahu therefore the karak of mangal shubh has to be

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > established at home, keep at home a little honey

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > in a silver dibbi towards the west. This upaya will

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > keep the belligerent Rahu under control.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Now you know the difference. In one case it is

gifting

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > the karaks which would be an effective upaya where as

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > in the next case it is establishing a karak would be

an

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > effective upaya.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Therefore devising upaya is a science which a

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Lalkitabist has to learn. It comes with time and

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > experience. That is why upaya suggested through

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ready reckoners do not work.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>