Re:Devising the form of an upaya / Pt. Umesh Sharma ji

June 20, 2008

Sir Umesh Sharma ji,

> 1. page no 386 Moon in 4th house

> Manda asar

> Note #3. Sar Fat jaye, Rahu ka manda asar Budh ( Budh ki

Aashiyaan,

> Karobaar ya Rishtedaar__ Mutlka budh) par hoga { Rahu Khana # 10}

Agar chander 4 hai aur rahu 10 mein to budh par gaaz kyon giri ?

budh ka talluk na to khana 4 se hai aur nahi khana 10 se. budh in

dono gharon mein bhi nahi hai to phir budh ki ashiya, karobar ya

rishtedar par bura asar kaise padega?

Sincerely,

HS Gill

, " Umesh Sharma "

<mudit982001 wrote:

>

> Respected Sir,

> Now there are two Statements in this regards

> 1. page no 386 Moon in 4th house

> Manda asar

> Note #3. Sar Fat jaye, Rahu ka manda asar Budh ( Budh ki

Aashiyaan,

> Karobaar ya Rishtedaar__ Mutlka budh) par hoga { Rahu Khana # 10}

> 2. RAHU in house # 10 :

> 1952 urdu ed : Page 680 ; note # 9

> Khyali dimagi dhuan bayas pareshani – dimagh

> phate ya sar kate ya nazar gum ho jave- aur dhan

> daulat par bijli ki tarah manda asar hoga

> [ Chandra khana # 4 ]

> HOW TO DECIDE WHICH STATEMENT IS APPLICABLE?

> Bhai yograj ji ki baat bilkul sahi hey par mere hisab se Grah ka

Khana

> main akele bethe hone par honi chahiye. Yahan par to Rahu Chandar

se

> drishat ho raha hey. May be i wrong.

>

With

> Regards

>

> Umesh Sharma

>

#1. Moon in 4th and rahu in 10th

>

> , " varun_trvd "

> <varun_trvd@> wrote:

> >

> > Respected Umesh ji,

> >

> > RAHU in house # 10 :

> >

> > 1952 urdu ed : Page 680 ; note # 9

> >

> > Khyali dimagi dhuan bayas pareshani – dimagh

> >

> > phate ya sar kate ya nazar gum ho jave- aur dhan

> >

> > daulat par bijli ki tarah manda asar hoga

> >

> > [ Chandra khana # 4 ]

> >

> > While answering to Wandahl ji, the context he

> >

> > had asked me to explain from was Rahu in the

> >

> > 10th house. Therefore I had translated the above

> >

> > lines from the book into English for my answer.

> >

> > With great respect and regards,

> >

> > Varun Trivedi

> >

> > , " Umesh Sharma "

> > mudit982001@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Respected Varun ji,

> > > If Moon in 4th and Rahu in 10th the result is

> > > " Sir Fat Jaye, Rahu ka bura asar Budh ( Budh ki Aashiayan,

Karobaar

> > ya

> > > Rishtedar mutlka Budh ) par hoga. " page no 388 edi.1952,

chandrma

> > Khana

> > > no. 4, Mandi halat Term no. 3.

> > > Kyonki Rahu jab jab Chandrma se Drishat hoga ya mushtrka hoga

vah

> Budh

> > > ko khrab karega.

> > > Gustakhi ki Kashma chahta hoon.

> > >

> > > Regards

> > >

> > > Umesh Sharma

> > >

> > > , " varun_trvd "

> > > varun_trvd@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Respected Wandahl saheb,

> > > >

> > > > Many thanks for your response. It is a

> > > > pleasure reading your views.

> > > >

> > > > You have asked ;

> > > >

> > > > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the

> > > > 10th it is mentioned that Upay

> > > > of Mars would be beneficial if there

> > > > is also Moon in the 4th house. Do you

> > > > know the reason for this? I think it

> > > > is difficult to grasp.

> > > >

> > > > As I understand basically it means that

> > > > in case moon is in the 4th while the

> > > > Rahu is in the 10th then it would result in:

> > > >

> > > > Foggy and unrealistic thoughts, brain

> > > > splitting agony, weak eyes, diminished

> > > > wealth.

> > > >

> > > > If you notice the areas most

> > > > affected are the karaks of the moon and

> > > > the reason being that Rahu will have an

> > > > aspect on the moon.

> > > >

> > > > If that happens then the Mars upaya

> > > > should be done

> > > >

> > > > with respect and regards,

> > > >

> > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > >

> > > > , " Finn Wandahl "

> > > > finn.wandahl@ wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Mr. Varun Trivedi,

> > > > >

> > > > > Thank you for this very inspirating article on Upaya,

which I

> like

> > > to

> > > > > say a few things about. However, I have a rather liberal

> approach

> > to

> > > > > Upaya as I consider the Upayas mentioned in Lal Kitab to be

> merely

> > > > > suggestions and guidelines meant to stimulate the

intuition,

> > empathy

> > > > > and discriminative power of the astrologer to make him

create

> his

> > > own

> > > > > remedies depending upon the circumstances, time and place

of

> each

> > > > > individual client.

> > > > >

> > > > > You have given Saturn in the 7th house as an example. But

> normally

> > I

> > > > > would perhaps not be much concerned about that. After all

it is

> > Ucha

> > > > > (exalted) and even if the 1st house was empty thus making

this

> > > Saturn

> > > > > sleeping or dormant it would not cause too much alarm

except

> > perhaps

> > > > > if Ketu was ahead of Saturn thereby turning it malefic. In

that

> > case

> > > I

> > > > > might even consider Ketu the problem, since Ketu is what

made

> this

> > > > > Saturn Malefic.

> > > > >

> > > > > Then you say something very interesting about Rahu in

kendras

> > where

> > > > > the planet that gets exalted in the house occupied by Rahu

> should

> > be

> > > > > considered for Upay. However, regarding Rahu in the first,

it is

> > > > > alreading said in Lal Kitab that the Sun would be

eclipsed, not

> > the

> > > > > Sun itself but the house occupied by the Sun.

> > > > >

> > > > > In annual charts, however, I have often had the

experience, that

> > it

> > > is

> > > > > really the Sun itself that gets eclipsed and destroyed

when Rahu

> > is

> > > in

> > > > > the first rather than the house occupied by the Sun. Rahu

coming

> > to

> > > > > the 1st house can really destroy the rank and position of a

> > person.

> > > > >

> > > > > However, the problem with Rahu in the 1st in the context

of Upay

> > is

> > > > > that the Sun is both significator of the first house and

also

> > > exalted

> > > > > there at the same time, and it make little difference if we

> > involve

> > > it

> > > > > in Upay for one reason or the other as long as it is the

same

> > > planet.

> > > > >

> > > > > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the 10th it is mentioned

that

> > Upay

> > > > > of Mars would be beneficial if there is also Moon in the

4th

> > house.

> > > Do

> > > > > you know the reason for this? I think it is difficult to

grasp.

> > > > >

> > > > > Then if Rahu was in the 7th house, Saturn would hardly be

my

> first

> > > > > choice for remedy even though it is exalted there. I would

no

> > doubt

> > > > > consider Venus first and perhaps also Mercury if daughters

or

> > > sisters

> > > > > were involved.

> > > > >

> > > > > Rahu in the 4th by itself should not be a problem as it has

> takes

> > > this

> > > > > oath not to cause evil when alone or with the Moon in 4th

house.

> I

> > > > > don't know if remedy of Jupiter could be used in case of

Rahu

> > being

> > > > > malefic in the 4th. I think Moon or perhaps Saturn would

be my

> > first

> > > > > choice in such a case.

> > > > >

> > > > > Best regards,

> > > > > Finn Wandahl

> > > > >

> > > > > , " varun_trvd "

> > > > > varun_trvd@ wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Respected members,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Devising the form of upaya:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Lal Kitab 1952 urdu ed page 620 last lines :

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Saturn in the 7th house

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Khand se bharkar bansari bahar veerane mein

> > > > > >

> > > > > > dabana mubarik, basharte ki Shanishchar soya

> > > > > >

> > > > > > na ho; agar soya ho to shahad ke bartan ka

> > > > > >

> > > > > > upaya madadgar hoga

> > > > > >

> > > > > > At the first reading it would appear that if the

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Saturn is not dormant [ soya hua] then bury in

> > > > > >

> > > > > > a barren place a flute filled with desi sugar [ khand ] ;

> > > > > >

> > > > > > if the Saturn is dormant then bury a pot filled with

honey.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But it is not so. That is not the correct understanding

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So much so a well known Lal Kitab scholar

> > > > > >

> > > > > > made a slip when he wrote in his book for Saturn in 7th:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > kisi bartan ko shahad se bharkar bahar

> > > > > >

> > > > > > dabane ka upaya sahayak hoga

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The correct upaya is to establish at home in

> > > > > >

> > > > > > the south west corner a pot filled with honey.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thus the correct upaya is establishing and not burying.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This has already been discussed here in the group.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Those who wish to read the logic behind establishing

> > > > > >

> > > > > > can go to the archives and read.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I began by giving this example to show how

> > > > > >

> > > > > > difficult it is to devise an upaya and more so to

> > > > > >

> > > > > > decide the form of upaya

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In most cases, the Lal Kitab does not

> > > > > >

> > > > > > explain the form of upaya to be done. It just

> > > > > >

> > > > > > suggests that the upaya for such-n-such planet

> > > > > >

> > > > > > be done e.g. mangal ka upaya madadgar hoga.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This statement by itself is not very helpful. It is

> > > > > >

> > > > > > the Lalkitabist who has to decide the form of this

> > > > > >

> > > > > > mangal ka upaya. He has to decide whether the

> > > > > >

> > > > > > karaks of mangal are to be immersed in flowing

> > > > > >

> > > > > > water, or gifted at a temple or buried and so on.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The upaya devised has to be correct and effective.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This needs a very good understanding of the

> > > > > >

> > > > > > system and a very wide experience.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Let me explain this with an example :

> > > > > >

> > > > > > For Rahu placed in the Kendra houses, it is advised

> > > > > >

> > > > > > that the upaya should be done of the planet which

> > > > > >

> > > > > > gets exalted in that house.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Therefore, if the Rahu is placed in the 1st house

> > > > > >

> > > > > > and has been identified as malefic then surya ka

> > > > > >

> > > > > > upaya madadgar hoga. Now what should be the

> > > > > >

> > > > > > form of this surya ka upaya. Should we immerse

> > > > > >

> > > > > > the karaks of the Sun in flowing water, or should

> > > > > >

> > > > > > we bury the karaks of the sun, or should we offer

> > > > > >

> > > > > > the karaks of the sun at a temple, or any other

> > > > > >

> > > > > > form of upaya to be devised.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thankfully in this case it has been indicated that

> > > > > >

> > > > > > the karaks of the Sun should be gifted at a temple.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This is done to strengthen the Sun so that he

> > > > > >

> > > > > > could withstand the eclipsing ability of Rahu.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But for the same Rahu in the 10th house the book says:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > khali mandir se rahu sota, tez swabhav manda ho

> > > > > >

> > > > > > mitra grah par keechad deta, upaya mangal ka uttam ho

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Now in this case no indication has been given as to

> > > > > >

> > > > > > what will be the form of mangal ka upaya, like the

> > > > > >

> > > > > > in the case of Rahu in the 1st house where gifting the

> > > > > >

> > > > > > karaks of Sun has been indicated. Will gifting the karaks

> > > > > >

> > > > > > of mangal at any temple be a correct upaya?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If not, then what should be the form of the upaya ?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A rahu placed in the 10th can not do any damage to

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Saturn but it will definitely harm the significations

> > > > > >

> > > > > > of the 10th house, be it a job or name or fame.

Therefore,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > if the rahu is adjudged as malefic, then an upaya

> > > > > >

> > > > > > will become necessary. So what would be the form

> > > > > >

> > > > > > of the upaya. We know that mangal will help, but in

> > > > > >

> > > > > > what form? It is the Lalkitabist who has to decide the

> > > > > >

> > > > > > form of the upaya.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Since the book says:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Rahu ka manda asar teve wale par nahi hoga :

> > > > > >

> > > > > > jab mangal nek ho

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In this case the Rahu has to be brought under control

> > > > > >

> > > > > > such that it is not able to damage the significations of

> > > > > >

> > > > > > the 10th house. Since Mangal shubh alone can control

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Rahu therefore the karak of mangal shubh has to be

> > > > > >

> > > > > > established at home, keep at home a little honey

> > > > > >

> > > > > > in a silver dibbi towards the west. This upaya will

> > > > > >

> > > > > > keep the belligerent Rahu under control.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Now you know the difference. In one case it is gifting

> > > > > >

> > > > > > the karaks which would be an effective upaya where as

> > > > > >

> > > > > > in the next case it is establishing a karak would be an

> > > > > >

> > > > > > effective upaya.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Therefore devising upaya is a science which a

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Lalkitabist has to learn. It comes with time and

> > > > > >

> > > > > > experience. That is why upaya suggested through

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ready reckoners do not work.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

June 21, 2008

Respected Gill ji," Rahu-Ketu jo Pap gine hain, Grah sab hi ko ghumate hain , Guru Akela Do ko chalave, ghumtey par vo budh main hain" Regards Umesh Sharma

, "gill_hs2005" <gill_hs2005 wrote:>> Sir Umesh Sharma ji,> > > 1. page no 386 Moon in 4th house> > Manda asar> > Note #3. Sar Fat jaye, Rahu ka manda asar Budh ( Budh ki > Aashiyaan,> > Karobaar ya Rishtedaar__ Mutlka budh) par hoga { Rahu Khana # 10}> > > Agar chander 4 hai aur rahu 10 mein to budh par gaaz kyon giri ? > budh ka talluk na to khana 4 se hai aur nahi khana 10 se. budh in > dono gharon mein bhi nahi hai to phir budh ki ashiya, karobar ya > rishtedar par bura asar kaise padega?> > Sincerely,> > HS Gill> > > > > > , "Umesh Sharma" > mudit982001@ wrote:> >> > Respected Sir,> > Now there are two Statements in this regards> > 1. page no 386 Moon in 4th house> > Manda asar> > Note #3. Sar Fat jaye, Rahu ka manda asar Budh ( Budh ki > Aashiyaan,> > Karobaar ya Rishtedaar__ Mutlka budh) par hoga { Rahu Khana # 10}> > 2. RAHU in house # 10 :> > 1952 urdu ed : Page 680 ; note # 9> > Khyali dimagi dhuan bayas pareshani – dimagh> > phate ya sar kate ya nazar gum ho jave- aur dhan> > daulat par bijli ki tarah manda asar hoga> > [ Chandra khana # 4 ]> > HOW TO DECIDE WHICH STATEMENT IS APPLICABLE?> > Bhai yograj ji ki baat bilkul sahi hey par mere hisab se Grah ka > Khana> > main akele bethe hone par honi chahiye. Yahan par to Rahu Chandar > se> > drishat ho raha hey. May be i wrong.> > > With> > Regards> > > > Umesh Sharma> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > #1. Moon in 4th and rahu in 10th> > > > > > > > > > , "varun_trvd"> > <varun_trvd@> wrote:> > >> > >> > > Respected Umesh ji,> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > RAHU in house # 10 :> > >> > >> > >> > > 1952 urdu ed : Page 680 ; note # 9> > >> > >> > >> > > Khyali dimagi dhuan bayas pareshani – dimagh> > >> > > phate ya sar kate ya nazar gum ho jave- aur dhan> > >> > > daulat par bijli ki tarah manda asar hoga> > >> > >> > >> > > [ Chandra khana # 4 ]> > >> > >> > >> > > While answering to Wandahl ji, the context he> > >> > > had asked me to explain from was Rahu in the> > >> > > 10th house. Therefore I had translated the above> > >> > > lines from the book into English for my answer.> > >> > >> > >> > > With great respect and regards,> > >> > >> > >> > > Varun Trivedi> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > , "Umesh Sharma"> > > mudit982001@ wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Respected Varun ji,> > > > If Moon in 4th and Rahu in 10th the result is> > > > " Sir Fat Jaye, Rahu ka bura asar Budh ( Budh ki Aashiayan, > Karobaar> > > ya> > > > Rishtedar mutlka Budh ) par hoga." page no 388 edi.1952, > chandrma> > > Khana> > > > no. 4, Mandi halat Term no. 3.> > > > Kyonki Rahu jab jab Chandrma se Drishat hoga ya mushtrka hoga > vah> > Budh> > > > ko khrab karega.> > > > Gustakhi ki Kashma chahta hoon.> > > >> > > > Regards> > > >> > > > Umesh Sharma> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > , "varun_trvd"> > > > varun_trvd@ wrote:> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Respected Wandahl saheb,> > > > >> > > > > Many thanks for your response. It is a> > > > > pleasure reading your views.> > > > >> > > > > You have asked ;> > > > >> > > > > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the> > > > > 10th it is mentioned that Upay> > > > > of Mars would be beneficial if there> > > > > is also Moon in the 4th house. Do you> > > > > know the reason for this? I think it> > > > > is difficult to grasp.> > > > >> > > > > As I understand basically it means that> > > > > in case moon is in the 4th while the> > > > > Rahu is in the 10th then it would result in:> > > > >> > > > > Foggy and unrealistic thoughts, brain> > > > > splitting agony, weak eyes, diminished> > > > > wealth.> > > > >> > > > > If you notice the areas most> > > > > affected are the karaks of the moon and> > > > > the reason being that Rahu will have an> > > > > aspect on the moon.> > > > >> > > > > If that happens then the Mars upaya> > > > > should be done> > > > >> > > > > with respect and regards,> > > > >> > > > > Varun Trivedi> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > , "Finn Wandahl"> > > > > finn.wandahl@ wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Mr. Varun Trivedi,> > > > > >> > > > > > Thank you for this very inspirating article on Upaya, > which I> > like> > > > to> > > > > > say a few things about. However, I have a rather liberal> > approach> > > to> > > > > > Upaya as I consider the Upayas mentioned in Lal Kitab to be> > merely> > > > > > suggestions and guidelines meant to stimulate the > intuition,> > > empathy> > > > > > and discriminative power of the astrologer to make him > create> > his> > > > own> > > > > > remedies depending upon the circumstances, time and place > of> > each> > > > > > individual client.> > > > > >> > > > > > You have given Saturn in the 7th house as an example. But> > normally> > > I> > > > > > would perhaps not be much concerned about that. After all > it is> > > Ucha> > > > > > (exalted) and even if the 1st house was empty thus making > this> > > > Saturn> > > > > > sleeping or dormant it would not cause too much alarm > except> > > perhaps> > > > > > if Ketu was ahead of Saturn thereby turning it malefic. In > that> > > case> > > > I> > > > > > might even consider Ketu the problem, since Ketu is what > made> > this> > > > > > Saturn Malefic.> > > > > >> > > > > > Then you say something very interesting about Rahu in > kendras> > > where> > > > > > the planet that gets exalted in the house occupied by Rahu> > should> > > be> > > > > > considered for Upay. However, regarding Rahu in the first, > it is> > > > > > alreading said in Lal Kitab that the Sun would be > eclipsed, not> > > the> > > > > > Sun itself but the house occupied by the Sun.> > > > > >> > > > > > In annual charts, however, I have often had the > experience, that> > > it> > > > is> > > > > > really the Sun itself that gets eclipsed and destroyed > when Rahu> > > is> > > > in> > > > > > the first rather than the house occupied by the Sun. Rahu > coming> > > to> > > > > > the 1st house can really destroy the rank and position of a> > > person.> > > > > >> > > > > > However, the problem with Rahu in the 1st in the context > of Upay> > > is> > > > > > that the Sun is both significator of the first house and > also> > > > exalted> > > > > > there at the same time, and it make little difference if we> > > involve> > > > it> > > > > > in Upay for one reason or the other as long as it is the > same> > > > planet.> > > > > >> > > > > > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the 10th it is mentioned > that> > > Upay> > > > > > of Mars would be beneficial if there is also Moon in the > 4th> > > house.> > > > Do> > > > > > you know the reason for this? I think it is difficult to > grasp.> > > > > >> > > > > > Then if Rahu was in the 7th house, Saturn would hardly be > my> > first> > > > > > choice for remedy even though it is exalted there. I would > no> > > doubt> > > > > > consider Venus first and perhaps also Mercury if daughters > or> > > > sisters> > > > > > were involved.> > > > > >> > > > > > Rahu in the 4th by itself should not be a problem as it has> > takes> > > > this> > > > > > oath not to cause evil when alone or with the Moon in 4th > house.> > I> > > > > > don't know if remedy of Jupiter could be used in case of > Rahu> > > being> > > > > > malefic in the 4th. I think Moon or perhaps Saturn would > be my> > > first> > > > > > choice in such a case.> > > > > >> > > > > > Best regards,> > > > > > Finn Wandahl> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > , "varun_trvd"> > > > > > varun_trvd@ wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Respected members,> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Devising the form of upaya:> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Lal Kitab 1952 urdu ed page 620 last lines :> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Saturn in the 7th house> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Khand se bharkar bansari bahar veerane mein> > > > > > >> > > > > > > dabana mubarik, basharte ki Shanishchar soya> > > > > > >> > > > > > > na ho; agar soya ho to shahad ke bartan ka> > > > > > >> > > > > > > upaya madadgar hoga> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > At the first reading it would appear that if the> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Saturn is not dormant [ soya hua] then bury in> > > > > > >> > > > > > > a barren place a flute filled with desi sugar [ khand ] ;> > > > > > >> > > > > > > if the Saturn is dormant then bury a pot filled with > honey.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > But it is not so. That is not the correct understanding> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > So much so a well known Lal Kitab scholar> > > > > > >> > > > > > > made a slip when he wrote in his book for Saturn in 7th:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > kisi bartan ko shahad se bharkar bahar> > > > > > >> > > > > > > dabane ka upaya sahayak hoga> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > The correct upaya is to establish at home in> > > > > > >> > > > > > > the south west corner a pot filled with honey.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Thus the correct upaya is establishing and not burying.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > This has already been discussed here in the group.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Those who wish to read the logic behind establishing> > > > > > >> > > > > > > can go to the archives and read.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > I began by giving this example to show how> > > > > > >> > > > > > > difficult it is to devise an upaya and more so to> > > > > > >> > > > > > > decide the form of upaya> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > In most cases, the Lal Kitab does not> > > > > > >> > > > > > > explain the form of upaya to be done. It just> > > > > > >> > > > > > > suggests that the upaya for such-n-such planet> > > > > > >> > > > > > > be done e.g. mangal ka upaya madadgar hoga.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > This statement by itself is not very helpful. It is> > > > > > >> > > > > > > the Lalkitabist who has to decide the form of this> > > > > > >> > > > > > > mangal ka upaya. He has to decide whether the> > > > > > >> > > > > > > karaks of mangal are to be immersed in flowing> > > > > > >> > > > > > > water, or gifted at a temple or buried and so on.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > The upaya devised has to be correct and effective.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > This needs a very good understanding of the> > > > > > >> > > > > > > system and a very wide experience.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Let me explain this with an example :> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > For Rahu placed in the Kendra houses, it is advised> > > > > > >> > > > > > > that the upaya should be done of the planet which> > > > > > >> > > > > > > gets exalted in that house.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Therefore, if the Rahu is placed in the 1st house> > > > > > >> > > > > > > and has been identified as malefic then surya ka> > > > > > >> > > > > > > upaya madadgar hoga. Now what should be the> > > > > > >> > > > > > > form of this surya ka upaya. Should we immerse> > > > > > >> > > > > > > the karaks of the Sun in flowing water, or should> > > > > > >> > > > > > > we bury the karaks of the sun, or should we offer> > > > > > >> > > > > > > the karaks of the sun at a temple, or any other> > > > > > >> > > > > > > form of upaya to be devised.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Thankfully in this case it has been indicated that> > > > > > >> > > > > > > the karaks of the Sun should be gifted at a temple.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > This is done to strengthen the Sun so that he> > > > > > >> > > > > > > could withstand the eclipsing ability of Rahu.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > But for the same Rahu in the 10th house the book says:> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > khali mandir se rahu sota, tez swabhav manda ho> > > > > > >> > > > > > > mitra grah par keechad deta, upaya mangal ka uttam ho> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Now in this case no indication has been given as to> > > > > > >> > > > > > > what will be the form of mangal ka upaya, like the> > > > > > >> > > > > > > in the case of Rahu in the 1st house where gifting the> > > > > > >> > > > > > > karaks of Sun has been indicated. Will gifting the karaks> > > > > > >> > > > > > > of mangal at any temple be a correct upaya?> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > If not, then what should be the form of the upaya ?> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > A rahu placed in the 10th can not do any damage to> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Saturn but it will definitely harm the significations> > > > > > >> > > > > > > of the 10th house, be it a job or name or fame. > Therefore,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > if the rahu is adjudged as malefic, then an upaya> > > > > > >> > > > > > > will become necessary. So what would be the form> > > > > > >> > > > > > > of the upaya. We know that mangal will help, but in> > > > > > >> > > > > > > what form? It is the Lalkitabist who has to decide the> > > > > > >> > > > > > > form of the upaya.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Since the book says:> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Rahu ka manda asar teve wale par nahi hoga :> > > > > > >> > > > > > > jab mangal nek ho> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > In this case the Rahu has to be brought under control> > > > > > >> > > > > > > such that it is not able to damage the significations of> > > > > > >> > > > > > > the 10th house. Since Mangal shubh alone can control> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Rahu therefore the karak of mangal shubh has to be> > > > > > >> > > > > > > established at home, keep at home a little honey> > > > > > >> > > > > > > in a silver dibbi towards the west. This upaya will> > > > > > >> > > > > > > keep the belligerent Rahu under control.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Now you know the difference. In one case it is gifting> > > > > > >> > > > > > > the karaks which would be an effective upaya where as> > > > > > >> > > > > > > in the next case it is establishing a karak would be an> > > > > > >> > > > > > > effective upaya.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Therefore devising upaya is a science which a> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Lalkitabist has to learn. It comes with time and> > > > > > >> > > > > > > experience. That is why upaya suggested through> > > > > > >> > > > > > > ready reckoners do not work.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Regards,> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Varun Trivedi> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

June 21, 2008

Sir umesh ji,

Agar budh itna taqatvar hai ki dono rahu aur ketu ko apne dayre mein

bandh kar rakh sakta hai, to rahu manda hone par budh par parbhav

kaise padega? Jo taqat dono ko bandh kar rakh sakti hai vah taqat

rahu aur ketu dono se badi huyee ki nahi. Apki baat se yeh samajh

mein aya ki rahu aur ketu budh ke adheen hain na ki budh in dono ke.

Jab budh rahu ketu ke adheen hi nahin hai to rahu ya ketu ke mande

hone ka asar budh par kaise ho sakta hai, yeh baat samajh mein nahi

ayee.

Sincerely,

HS Gill

, " Umesh Sharma "

<mudit982001 wrote:

>

> Respected Gill ji,

> " Rahu-Ketu jo Pap gine hain, Grah sab hi ko ghumate hain ,

> Guru Akela Do ko chalave, ghumtey par vo budh main hain "

>

> Regards

>

> Umesh Sharma

, " gill_hs2005 "

> <gill_hs2005@> wrote:

> >

> > Sir Umesh Sharma ji,

> >

> > > 1. page no 386 Moon in 4th house

> > > Manda asar

> > > Note #3. Sar Fat jaye, Rahu ka manda asar Budh ( Budh ki

> > Aashiyaan,

> > > Karobaar ya Rishtedaar__ Mutlka budh) par hoga { Rahu Khana #

10}

> >

> > Agar chander 4 hai aur rahu 10 mein to budh par gaaz kyon giri ?

> > budh ka talluk na to khana 4 se hai aur nahi khana 10 se. budh in

> > dono gharon mein bhi nahi hai to phir budh ki ashiya, karobar ya

> > rishtedar par bura asar kaise padega?

> >

> > Sincerely,

> >

> > HS Gill

> >

> > , " Umesh Sharma "

> > mudit982001@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Respected Sir,

> > > Now there are two Statements in this regards

> > > 1. page no 386 Moon in 4th house

> > > Manda asar

> > > Note #3. Sar Fat jaye, Rahu ka manda asar Budh ( Budh ki

> > Aashiyaan,

> > > Karobaar ya Rishtedaar__ Mutlka budh) par hoga { Rahu Khana #

10}

> > > 2. RAHU in house # 10 :

> > > 1952 urdu ed : Page 680 ; note # 9

> > > Khyali dimagi dhuan bayas pareshani – dimagh

> > > phate ya sar kate ya nazar gum ho jave- aur dhan

> > > daulat par bijli ki tarah manda asar hoga

> > > [ Chandra khana # 4 ]

> > > HOW TO DECIDE WHICH STATEMENT IS APPLICABLE?

> > > Bhai yograj ji ki baat bilkul sahi hey par mere hisab se Grah

ka

> > Khana

> > > main akele bethe hone par honi chahiye. Yahan par to Rahu

Chandar

> > se

> > > drishat ho raha hey. May be i wrong.

> > >

> > With

> > > Regards

> > >

> > > Umesh Sharma

> > >

> > > #1. Moon in 4th and rahu in 10th

> > >

> > > , " varun_trvd "

> > > <varun_trvd@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Respected Umesh ji,

> > > >

> > > > RAHU in house # 10 :

> > > >

> > > > 1952 urdu ed : Page 680 ; note # 9

> > > >

> > > > Khyali dimagi dhuan bayas pareshani – dimagh

> > > >

> > > > phate ya sar kate ya nazar gum ho jave- aur dhan

> > > >

> > > > daulat par bijli ki tarah manda asar hoga

> > > >

> > > > [ Chandra khana # 4 ]

> > > >

> > > > While answering to Wandahl ji, the context he

> > > >

> > > > had asked me to explain from was Rahu in the

> > > >

> > > > 10th house. Therefore I had translated the above

> > > >

> > > > lines from the book into English for my answer.

> > > >

> > > > With great respect and regards,

> > > >

> > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > >

> > > > , " Umesh Sharma "

> > > > mudit982001@ wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Respected Varun ji,

> > > > > If Moon in 4th and Rahu in 10th the result is

> > > > > " Sir Fat Jaye, Rahu ka bura asar Budh ( Budh ki Aashiayan,

> > Karobaar

> > > > ya

> > > > > Rishtedar mutlka Budh ) par hoga. " page no 388 edi.1952,

> > chandrma

> > > > Khana

> > > > > no. 4, Mandi halat Term no. 3.

> > > > > Kyonki Rahu jab jab Chandrma se Drishat hoga ya mushtrka

hoga

> > vah

> > > Budh

> > > > > ko khrab karega.

> > > > > Gustakhi ki Kashma chahta hoon.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards

> > > > >

> > > > > Umesh Sharma

> > > > >

> > > > > , " varun_trvd "

> > > > > varun_trvd@ wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Respected Wandahl saheb,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Many thanks for your response. It is a

> > > > > > pleasure reading your views.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You have asked ;

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the

> > > > > > 10th it is mentioned that Upay

> > > > > > of Mars would be beneficial if there

> > > > > > is also Moon in the 4th house. Do you

> > > > > > know the reason for this? I think it

> > > > > > is difficult to grasp.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As I understand basically it means that

> > > > > > in case moon is in the 4th while the

> > > > > > Rahu is in the 10th then it would result in:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Foggy and unrealistic thoughts, brain

> > > > > > splitting agony, weak eyes, diminished

> > > > > > wealth.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If you notice the areas most

> > > > > > affected are the karaks of the moon and

> > > > > > the reason being that Rahu will have an

> > > > > > aspect on the moon.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If that happens then the Mars upaya

> > > > > > should be done

> > > > > >

> > > > > > with respect and regards,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , " Finn

Wandahl "

> > > > > > finn.wandahl@ wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Mr. Varun Trivedi,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thank you for this very inspirating article on Upaya,

> > which I

> > > like

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > say a few things about. However, I have a rather

liberal

> > > approach

> > > > to

> > > > > > > Upaya as I consider the Upayas mentioned in Lal Kitab

to be

> > > merely

> > > > > > > suggestions and guidelines meant to stimulate the

> > intuition,

> > > > empathy

> > > > > > > and discriminative power of the astrologer to make him

> > create

> > > his

> > > > > own

> > > > > > > remedies depending upon the circumstances, time and

place

> > of

> > > each

> > > > > > > individual client.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You have given Saturn in the 7th house as an example.

But

> > > normally

> > > > I

> > > > > > > would perhaps not be much concerned about that. After

all

> > it is

> > > > Ucha

> > > > > > > (exalted) and even if the 1st house was empty thus

making

> > this

> > > > > Saturn

> > > > > > > sleeping or dormant it would not cause too much alarm

> > except

> > > > perhaps

> > > > > > > if Ketu was ahead of Saturn thereby turning it

malefic. In

> > that

> > > > case

> > > > > I

> > > > > > > might even consider Ketu the problem, since Ketu is

what

> > made

> > > this

> > > > > > > Saturn Malefic.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Then you say something very interesting about Rahu in

> > kendras

> > > > where

> > > > > > > the planet that gets exalted in the house occupied by

Rahu

> > > should

> > > > be

> > > > > > > considered for Upay. However, regarding Rahu in the

first,

> > it is

> > > > > > > alreading said in Lal Kitab that the Sun would be

> > eclipsed, not

> > > > the

> > > > > > > Sun itself but the house occupied by the Sun.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In annual charts, however, I have often had the

> > experience, that

> > > > it

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > really the Sun itself that gets eclipsed and destroyed

> > when Rahu

> > > > is

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > the first rather than the house occupied by the Sun.

Rahu

> > coming

> > > > to

> > > > > > > the 1st house can really destroy the rank and position

of a

> > > > person.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > However, the problem with Rahu in the 1st in the

context

> > of Upay

> > > > is

> > > > > > > that the Sun is both significator of the first house

and

> > also

> > > > > exalted

> > > > > > > there at the same time, and it make little difference

if we

> > > > involve

> > > > > it

> > > > > > > in Upay for one reason or the other as long as it is

the

> > same

> > > > > planet.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the 10th it is

mentioned

> > that

> > > > Upay

> > > > > > > of Mars would be beneficial if there is also Moon in

the

> > 4th

> > > > house.

> > > > > Do

> > > > > > > you know the reason for this? I think it is difficult

to

> > grasp.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Then if Rahu was in the 7th house, Saturn would hardly

be

> > my

> > > first

> > > > > > > choice for remedy even though it is exalted there. I

would

> > no

> > > > doubt

> > > > > > > consider Venus first and perhaps also Mercury if

daughters

> > or

> > > > > sisters

> > > > > > > were involved.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Rahu in the 4th by itself should not be a problem as

it has

> > > takes

> > > > > this

> > > > > > > oath not to cause evil when alone or with the Moon in

4th

> > house.

> > > I

> > > > > > > don't know if remedy of Jupiter could be used in case

of

> > Rahu

> > > > being

> > > > > > > malefic in the 4th. I think Moon or perhaps Saturn

would

> > be my

> > > > first

> > > > > > > choice in such a case.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Best regards,

> > > > > > > Finn Wandahl

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --- In

, " varun_trvd "

> > > > > > > varun_trvd@ wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Respected members,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Devising the form of upaya:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Lal Kitab 1952 urdu ed page 620 last lines :

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Saturn in the 7th house

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Khand se bharkar bansari bahar veerane mein

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > dabana mubarik, basharte ki Shanishchar soya

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > na ho; agar soya ho to shahad ke bartan ka

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > upaya madadgar hoga

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > At the first reading it would appear that if the

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Saturn is not dormant [ soya hua] then bury in

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > a barren place a flute filled with desi sugar [

khand ] ;

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > if the Saturn is dormant then bury a pot filled with

> > honey.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > But it is not so. That is not the correct

understanding

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > So much so a well known Lal Kitab scholar

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > made a slip when he wrote in his book for Saturn in

7th:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > kisi bartan ko shahad se bharkar bahar

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > dabane ka upaya sahayak hoga

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The correct upaya is to establish at home in

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > the south west corner a pot filled with honey.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thus the correct upaya is establishing and not

burying.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > This has already been discussed here in the group.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Those who wish to read the logic behind establishing

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > can go to the archives and read.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I began by giving this example to show how

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > difficult it is to devise an upaya and more so to

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > decide the form of upaya

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > In most cases, the Lal Kitab does not

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > explain the form of upaya to be done. It just

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > suggests that the upaya for such-n-such planet

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > be done e.g. mangal ka upaya madadgar hoga.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > This statement by itself is not very helpful. It is

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > the Lalkitabist who has to decide the form of this

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > mangal ka upaya. He has to decide whether the

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > karaks of mangal are to be immersed in flowing

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > water, or gifted at a temple or buried and so on.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The upaya devised has to be correct and effective.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > This needs a very good understanding of the

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > system and a very wide experience.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Let me explain this with an example :

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > For Rahu placed in the Kendra houses, it is advised

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > that the upaya should be done of the planet which

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > gets exalted in that house.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Therefore, if the Rahu is placed in the 1st house

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > and has been identified as malefic then surya ka

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > upaya madadgar hoga. Now what should be the

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > form of this surya ka upaya. Should we immerse

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > the karaks of the Sun in flowing water, or should

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > we bury the karaks of the sun, or should we offer

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > the karaks of the sun at a temple, or any other

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > form of upaya to be devised.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thankfully in this case it has been indicated that

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > the karaks of the Sun should be gifted at a temple.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > This is done to strengthen the Sun so that he

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > could withstand the eclipsing ability of Rahu.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > But for the same Rahu in the 10th house the book

says:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > khali mandir se rahu sota, tez swabhav manda ho

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > mitra grah par keechad deta, upaya mangal ka uttam ho

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Now in this case no indication has been given as to

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > what will be the form of mangal ka upaya, like the

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > in the case of Rahu in the 1st house where gifting

the

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > karaks of Sun has been indicated. Will gifting the

karaks

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > of mangal at any temple be a correct upaya?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > If not, then what should be the form of the upaya ?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > A rahu placed in the 10th can not do any damage to

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Saturn but it will definitely harm the significations

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > of the 10th house, be it a job or name or fame.

> > Therefore,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > if the rahu is adjudged as malefic, then an upaya

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > will become necessary. So what would be the form

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > of the upaya. We know that mangal will help, but in

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > what form? It is the Lalkitabist who has to decide

the

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > form of the upaya.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Since the book says:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Rahu ka manda asar teve wale par nahi hoga :

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > jab mangal nek ho

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > In this case the Rahu has to be brought under control

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > such that it is not able to damage the

significations of

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > the 10th house. Since Mangal shubh alone can control

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Rahu therefore the karak of mangal shubh has to be

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > established at home, keep at home a little honey

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > in a silver dibbi towards the west. This upaya will

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > keep the belligerent Rahu under control.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Now you know the difference. In one case it is

gifting

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > the karaks which would be an effective upaya where as

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > in the next case it is establishing a karak would be

an

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > effective upaya.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Therefore devising upaya is a science which a

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Lalkitabist has to learn. It comes with time and

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > experience. That is why upaya suggested through

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ready reckoners do not work.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

June 22, 2008

Respected Gill j]==[,

There are so many other Terms which we are not understand. As example

1. What are the logic of Varshaphal Sarani?

2. Why Moon is week or Manda when Sun and Mars are combind?

3. When Ketu in 3rd than why we do upay of Jupiter?

So many other questions.

because, i am a practioner astrologer and from last 15 yrs of my astrological life i use these terms as it is and get success. So i have no doubt. I think one bigger difference in you and me that you are not a professional astrologer but I am. I think Astrology is your Hobby but in my case it is my "Bread & Butter" so I have " PURAN SHARDHA" on this book. I Discuss and understand the theory of Lal-Kitab from other scholars,. As You, Sh. Vareun Trivedi ji, Sh. Bhooshan Priya ji,, Sh. Kulbeer ji, Sh. Yograj Prabhakar ji, Sh. Lalkitabi ji, Sh. L.K.Vashishath ji, Late Sh. B.R.Gupta ( My Father-in-Law). No doubt, you are doing the good job in favour of Lal-kitab, keep it up.

Regards

Umesh Sharma , "gill_hs2005" <gill_hs2005 wrote:>> Sir umesh ji,> > Agar budh itna taqatvar hai ki dono rahu aur ketu ko apne dayre mein > bandh kar rakh sakta hai, to rahu manda hone par budh par parbhav > kaise padega? Jo taqat dono ko bandh kar rakh sakti hai vah taqat > rahu aur ketu dono se badi huyee ki nahi. Apki baat se yeh samajh > mein aya ki rahu aur ketu budh ke adheen hain na ki budh in dono ke. > Jab budh rahu ketu ke adheen hi nahin hai to rahu ya ketu ke mande > hone ka asar budh par kaise ho sakta hai, yeh baat samajh mein nahi > ayee.> > Sincerely,> > HS Gill> > > > > > > > > > > > , "Umesh Sharma" > mudit982001@ wrote:> >> > > > Respected Gill ji,> > " Rahu-Ketu jo Pap gine hain, Grah sab hi ko ghumate hain ,> > Guru Akela Do ko chalave, ghumtey par vo budh main hain"> > > > > Regards> > > > > Umesh Sharma> > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "gill_hs2005"> > <gill_hs2005@> wrote:> > >> > > Sir Umesh Sharma ji,> > >> > > > 1. page no 386 Moon in 4th house> > > > Manda asar> > > > Note #3. Sar Fat jaye, Rahu ka manda asar Budh ( Budh ki> > > Aashiyaan,> > > > Karobaar ya Rishtedaar__ Mutlka budh) par hoga { Rahu Khana # > 10}> > >> > >> > > Agar chander 4 hai aur rahu 10 mein to budh par gaaz kyon giri ?> > > budh ka talluk na to khana 4 se hai aur nahi khana 10 se. budh in> > > dono gharon mein bhi nahi hai to phir budh ki ashiya, karobar ya> > > rishtedar par bura asar kaise padega?> > >> > > Sincerely,> > >> > > HS Gill> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > , "Umesh Sharma"> > > mudit982001@ wrote:> > > >> > > > Respected Sir,> > > > Now there are two Statements in this regards> > > > 1. page no 386 Moon in 4th house> > > > Manda asar> > > > Note #3. Sar Fat jaye, Rahu ka manda asar Budh ( Budh ki> > > Aashiyaan,> > > > Karobaar ya Rishtedaar__ Mutlka budh) par hoga { Rahu Khana # > 10}> > > > 2. RAHU in house # 10 :> > > > 1952 urdu ed : Page 680 ; note # 9> > > > Khyali dimagi dhuan bayas pareshani – dimagh> > > > phate ya sar kate ya nazar gum ho jave- aur dhan> > > > daulat par bijli ki tarah manda asar hoga> > > > [ Chandra khana # 4 ]> > > > HOW TO DECIDE WHICH STATEMENT IS APPLICABLE?> > > > Bhai yograj ji ki baat bilkul sahi hey par mere hisab se Grah > ka> > > Khana> > > > main akele bethe hone par honi chahiye. Yahan par to Rahu > Chandar> > > se> > > > drishat ho raha hey. May be i wrong.> > > >> > > With> > > > Regards> > > >> > > > Umesh Sharma> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > #1. Moon in 4th and rahu in 10th> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > , "varun_trvd"> > > > <varun_trvd@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Respected Umesh ji,> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > RAHU in house # 10 :> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > 1952 urdu ed : Page 680 ; note # 9> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Khyali dimagi dhuan bayas pareshani – dimagh> > > > >> > > > > phate ya sar kate ya nazar gum ho jave- aur dhan> > > > >> > > > > daulat par bijli ki tarah manda asar hoga> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > [ Chandra khana # 4 ]> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > While answering to Wandahl ji, the context he> > > > >> > > > > had asked me to explain from was Rahu in the> > > > >> > > > > 10th house. Therefore I had translated the above> > > > >> > > > > lines from the book into English for my answer.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > With great respect and regards,> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Varun Trivedi> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > , "Umesh Sharma"> > > > > mudit982001@ wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Respected Varun ji,> > > > > > If Moon in 4th and Rahu in 10th the result is> > > > > > " Sir Fat Jaye, Rahu ka bura asar Budh ( Budh ki Aashiayan,> > > Karobaar> > > > > ya> > > > > > Rishtedar mutlka Budh ) par hoga." page no 388 edi.1952,> > > chandrma> > > > > Khana> > > > > > no. 4, Mandi halat Term no. 3.> > > > > > Kyonki Rahu jab jab Chandrma se Drishat hoga ya mushtrka > hoga> > > vah> > > > Budh> > > > > > ko khrab karega.> > > > > > Gustakhi ki Kashma chahta hoon.> > > > > >> > > > > > Regards> > > > > >> > > > > > Umesh Sharma> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > , "varun_trvd"> > > > > > varun_trvd@ wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Respected Wandahl saheb,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Many thanks for your response. It is a> > > > > > > pleasure reading your views.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > You have asked ;> > > > > > >> > > > > > > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the> > > > > > > 10th it is mentioned that Upay> > > > > > > of Mars would be beneficial if there> > > > > > > is also Moon in the 4th house. Do you> > > > > > > know the reason for this? I think it> > > > > > > is difficult to grasp.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > As I understand basically it means that> > > > > > > in case moon is in the 4th while the> > > > > > > Rahu is in the 10th then it would result in:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Foggy and unrealistic thoughts, brain> > > > > > > splitting agony, weak eyes, diminished> > > > > > > wealth.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > If you notice the areas most> > > > > > > affected are the karaks of the moon and> > > > > > > the reason being that Rahu will have an> > > > > > > aspect on the moon.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > If that happens then the Mars upaya> > > > > > > should be done> > > > > > >> > > > > > > with respect and regards,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Varun Trivedi> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > , "Finn > Wandahl"> > > > > > > finn.wandahl@ wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Dear Mr. Varun Trivedi,> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Thank you for this very inspirating article on Upaya,> > > which I> > > > like> > > > > > to> > > > > > > > say a few things about. However, I have a rather > liberal> > > > approach> > > > > to> > > > > > > > Upaya as I consider the Upayas mentioned in Lal Kitab > to be> > > > merely> > > > > > > > suggestions and guidelines meant to stimulate the> > > intuition,> > > > > empathy> > > > > > > > and discriminative power of the astrologer to make him> > > create> > > > his> > > > > > own> > > > > > > > remedies depending upon the circumstances, time and > place> > > of> > > > each> > > > > > > > individual client.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > You have given Saturn in the 7th house as an example. > But> > > > normally> > > > > I> > > > > > > > would perhaps not be much concerned about that. After > all> > > it is> > > > > Ucha> > > > > > > > (exalted) and even if the 1st house was empty thus > making> > > this> > > > > > Saturn> > > > > > > > sleeping or dormant it would not cause too much alarm> > > except> > > > > perhaps> > > > > > > > if Ketu was ahead of Saturn thereby turning it > malefic. In> > > that> > > > > case> > > > > > I> > > > > > > > might even consider Ketu the problem, since Ketu is > what> > > made> > > > this> > > > > > > > Saturn Malefic.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Then you say something very interesting about Rahu in> > > kendras> > > > > where> > > > > > > > the planet that gets exalted in the house occupied by > Rahu> > > > should> > > > > be> > > > > > > > considered for Upay. However, regarding Rahu in the > first,> > > it is> > > > > > > > alreading said in Lal Kitab that the Sun would be> > > eclipsed, not> > > > > the> > > > > > > > Sun itself but the house occupied by the Sun.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > In annual charts, however, I have often had the> > > experience, that> > > > > it> > > > > > is> > > > > > > > really the Sun itself that gets eclipsed and destroyed> > > when Rahu> > > > > is> > > > > > in> > > > > > > > the first rather than the house occupied by the Sun. > Rahu> > > coming> > > > > to> > > > > > > > the 1st house can really destroy the rank and position > of a> > > > > person.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > However, the problem with Rahu in the 1st in the > context> > > of Upay> > > > > is> > > > > > > > that the Sun is both significator of the first house > and> > > also> > > > > > exalted> > > > > > > > there at the same time, and it make little difference > if we> > > > > involve> > > > > > it> > > > > > > > in Upay for one reason or the other as long as it is > the> > > same> > > > > > planet.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the 10th it is > mentioned> > > that> > > > > Upay> > > > > > > > of Mars would be beneficial if there is also Moon in > the> > > 4th> > > > > house.> > > > > > Do> > > > > > > > you know the reason for this? I think it is difficult > to> > > grasp.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Then if Rahu was in the 7th house, Saturn would hardly > be> > > my> > > > first> > > > > > > > choice for remedy even though it is exalted there. I > would> > > no> > > > > doubt> > > > > > > > consider Venus first and perhaps also Mercury if > daughters> > > or> > > > > > sisters> > > > > > > > were involved.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Rahu in the 4th by itself should not be a problem as > it has> > > > takes> > > > > > this> > > > > > > > oath not to cause evil when alone or with the Moon in > 4th> > > house.> > > > I> > > > > > > > don't know if remedy of Jupiter could be used in case > of> > > Rahu> > > > > being> > > > > > > > malefic in the 4th. I think Moon or perhaps Saturn > would> > > be my> > > > > first> > > > > > > > choice in such a case.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Best regards,> > > > > > > > Finn Wandahl> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > , "varun_trvd"> > > > > > > > varun_trvd@ wrote:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Respected members,> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Devising the form of upaya:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Lal Kitab 1952 urdu ed page 620 last lines :> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Saturn in the 7th house> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Khand se bharkar bansari bahar veerane mein> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > dabana mubarik, basharte ki Shanishchar soya> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > na ho; agar soya ho to shahad ke bartan ka> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > upaya madadgar hoga> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > At the first reading it would appear that if the> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Saturn is not dormant [ soya hua] then bury in> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > a barren place a flute filled with desi sugar [ > khand ] ;> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > if the Saturn is dormant then bury a pot filled with> > > honey.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > But it is not so. That is not the correct > understanding> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > So much so a well known Lal Kitab scholar> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > made a slip when he wrote in his book for Saturn in > 7th:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > kisi bartan ko shahad se bharkar bahar> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > dabane ka upaya sahayak hoga> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > The correct upaya is to establish at home in> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > the south west corner a pot filled with honey.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Thus the correct upaya is establishing and not > burying.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > This has already been discussed here in the group.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Those who wish to read the logic behind establishing> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > can go to the archives and read.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > I began by giving this example to show how> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > difficult it is to devise an upaya and more so to> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > decide the form of upaya> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > In most cases, the Lal Kitab does not> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > explain the form of upaya to be done. It just> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > suggests that the upaya for such-n-such planet> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > be done e.g. mangal ka upaya madadgar hoga.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > This statement by itself is not very helpful. It is> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > the Lalkitabist who has to decide the form of this> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > mangal ka upaya. He has to decide whether the> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > karaks of mangal are to be immersed in flowing> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > water, or gifted at a temple or buried and so on.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > The upaya devised has to be correct and effective.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > This needs a very good understanding of the> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > system and a very wide experience.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Let me explain this with an example :> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > For Rahu placed in the Kendra houses, it is advised> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > that the upaya should be done of the planet which> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > gets exalted in that house.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Therefore, if the Rahu is placed in the 1st house> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > and has been identified as malefic then surya ka> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > upaya madadgar hoga. Now what should be the> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > form of this surya ka upaya. Should we immerse> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > the karaks of the Sun in flowing water, or should> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > we bury the karaks of the sun, or should we offer> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > the karaks of the sun at a temple, or any other> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > form of upaya to be devised.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Thankfully in this case it has been indicated that> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > the karaks of the Sun should be gifted at a temple.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > This is done to strengthen the Sun so that he> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > could withstand the eclipsing ability of Rahu.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > But for the same Rahu in the 10th house the book > says:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > khali mandir se rahu sota, tez swabhav manda ho> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > mitra grah par keechad deta, upaya mangal ka uttam ho> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Now in this case no indication has been given as to> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > what will be the form of mangal ka upaya, like the> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > in the case of Rahu in the 1st house where gifting > the> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > karaks of Sun has been indicated. Will gifting the > karaks> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > of mangal at any temple be a correct upaya?> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > If not, then what should be the form of the upaya ?> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > A rahu placed in the 10th can not do any damage to> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Saturn but it will definitely harm the significations> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > of the 10th house, be it a job or name or fame.> > > Therefore,> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > if the rahu is adjudged as malefic, then an upaya> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > will become necessary. So what would be the form> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > of the upaya. We know that mangal will help, but in> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > what form? It is the Lalkitabist who has to decide > the> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > form of the upaya.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Since the book says:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Rahu ka manda asar teve wale par nahi hoga :> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > jab mangal nek ho> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > In this case the Rahu has to be brought under control> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > such that it is not able to damage the > significations of> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > the 10th house. Since Mangal shubh alone can control> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Rahu therefore the karak of mangal shubh has to be> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > established at home, keep at home a little honey> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > in a silver dibbi towards the west. This upaya will> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > keep the belligerent Rahu under control.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Now you know the difference. In one case it is > gifting> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > the karaks which would be an effective upaya where as> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > in the next case it is establishing a karak would be > an> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > effective upaya.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Therefore devising upaya is a science which a> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Lalkitabist has to learn. It comes with time and> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > experience. That is why upaya suggested through> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > ready reckoners do not work.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Regards,> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

June 22, 2008

Respected Umesh ji,

My views on the issues you have raised.

[ 1 ] Lal Kitab varshphal sarini :

In traditional vedic Jyotish there are quite a few

methods prevalent for working out the Varshphal

kundali. The Lal Kitab has suggested yet another

method. Therefore there is nothing unusual or

surprising about the method.

The major question is what could have been the

logic or the arithmetic applied to generate the table.

We know that unless there was some formula the

table could not have been generated. We do not

know the formula as yet. But sure one day the

formula would be known. Till such time the formula

used is found out, let us not treat the sarini as some

thing super natural. There is nothing mystical or

super natural about it. It is an ordinary table; there are

hundreds of such tables used in the traditional astrology

[ 2 ] For sun + mars the book says :

asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho

This is simple to explain, have a look at what

constitutes these two planets.

Mars = sun + mercury

Sun = mercury + venus

If you notice this combination is all mercury

and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore

it is natural that this combination will not be

conducive for moon.

[ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says :

Ketu mande ho madad guru ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho

Here Jupiter is used to strengthen ketu. There is

nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

strengthening another friendly planet.

With great respect and regards,

Varun Trivedi

, "Umesh Sharma" <mudit982001 wrote:>> > Respected Gill j]==[,> > There are so many other Terms which we are not understand. As example> > 1. What are the logic of Varshaphal Sarani?> > 2. Why Moon is week or Manda when Sun and Mars are combind?> > 3. When Ketu in 3rd than why we do upay of Jupiter?> > So many other questions.> > because, i am a practioner astrologer and from last 15 yrs of my> astrological life i use these terms as it is and get success. So i have> no doubt. I think one bigger difference in you and me that you are not a> professional astrologer but I am. I think Astrology is your Hobby but> in my case it is my "Bread & Butter" so I have " PURAN SHARDHA" on this> book. I Discuss and understand the theory of Lal-Kitab from other> scholars,. As You, Sh. Vareun Trivedi ji, Sh. Bhooshan Priya ji,, Sh.> Kulbeer ji, Sh. Yograj Prabhakar ji, Sh. Lalkitabi ji, Sh.> L.K.Vashishath ji, Late Sh. B.R.Gupta ( My Father-in-Law). No doubt,> you are doing the good job in favour of Lal-kitab, keep it up.> > > Regards> > > Umesh Sharma> > , "gill_hs2005"> gill_hs2005@ wrote:> >> > Sir umesh ji,> >> > Agar budh itna taqatvar hai ki dono rahu aur ketu ko apne dayre mein> > bandh kar rakh sakta hai, to rahu manda hone par budh par parbhav> > kaise padega? Jo taqat dono ko bandh kar rakh sakti hai vah taqat> > rahu aur ketu dono se badi huyee ki nahi. Apki baat se yeh samajh> > mein aya ki rahu aur ketu budh ke adheen hain na ki budh in dono ke.> > Jab budh rahu ketu ke adheen hi nahin hai to rahu ya ketu ke mande> > hone ka asar budh par kaise ho sakta hai, yeh baat samajh mein nahi> > ayee.> >> > Sincerely,> >> > HS Gill> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > , "Umesh Sharma"> > mudit982001@ wrote:> > >> > >> > > Respected Gill ji,> > > " Rahu-Ketu jo Pap gine hain, Grah sab hi ko ghumate hain ,> > > Guru Akela Do ko chalave, ghumtey par vo budh main hain"> > >> >> > > Regards> > >> >> > > Umesh Sharma> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > , "gill_hs2005"> > > <gill_hs2005@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Sir Umesh Sharma ji,> > > >> > > > > 1. page no 386 Moon in 4th house> > > > > Manda asar> > > > > Note #3. Sar Fat jaye, Rahu ka manda asar Budh ( Budh ki> > > > Aashiyaan,> > > > > Karobaar ya Rishtedaar__ Mutlka budh) par hoga { Rahu Khana #> > 10}> > > >> > > >> > > > Agar chander 4 hai aur rahu 10 mein to budh par gaaz kyon giri ?> > > > budh ka talluk na to khana 4 se hai aur nahi khana 10 se. budh in> > > > dono gharon mein bhi nahi hai to phir budh ki ashiya, karobar ya> > > > rishtedar par bura asar kaise padega?> > > >> > > > Sincerely,> > > >> > > > HS Gill> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > , "Umesh Sharma"> > > > mudit982001@ wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Respected Sir,> > > > > Now there are two Statements in this regards> > > > > 1. page no 386 Moon in 4th house> > > > > Manda asar> > > > > Note #3. Sar Fat jaye, Rahu ka manda asar Budh ( Budh ki> > > > Aashiyaan,> > > > > Karobaar ya Rishtedaar__ Mutlka budh) par hoga { Rahu Khana #> > 10}> > > > > 2. RAHU in house # 10 :> > > > > 1952 urdu ed : Page 680 ; note # 9> > > > > Khyali dimagi dhuan bayas pareshani – dimagh> > > > > phate ya sar kate ya nazar gum ho jave- aur dhan> > > > > daulat par bijli ki tarah manda asar hoga> > > > > [ Chandra khana # 4 ]> > > > > HOW TO DECIDE WHICH STATEMENT IS APPLICABLE?> > > > > Bhai yograj ji ki baat bilkul sahi hey par mere hisab se Grah> > ka> > > > Khana> > > > > main akele bethe hone par honi chahiye. Yahan par to Rahu> > Chandar> > > > se> > > > > drishat ho raha hey. May be i wrong.> > > > >> > > > With> > > > > Regards> > > > >> > > > > Umesh Sharma> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > #1. Moon in 4th and rahu in 10th> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > , "varun_trvd"> > > > > <varun_trvd@> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Respected Umesh ji,> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > RAHU in house # 10 :> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > 1952 urdu ed : Page 680 ; note # 9> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Khyali dimagi dhuan bayas pareshani – dimagh> > > > > >> > > > > > phate ya sar kate ya nazar gum ho jave- aur dhan> > > > > >> > > > > > daulat par bijli ki tarah manda asar hoga> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > [ Chandra khana # 4 ]> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > While answering to Wandahl ji, the context he> > > > > >> > > > > > had asked me to explain from was Rahu in the> > > > > >> > > > > > 10th house. Therefore I had translated the above> > > > > >> > > > > > lines from the book into English for my answer.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > With great respect and regards,> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Varun Trivedi> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > , "Umesh Sharma"> > > > > > mudit982001@ wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Respected Varun ji,> > > > > > > If Moon in 4th and Rahu in 10th the result is> > > > > > > " Sir Fat Jaye, Rahu ka bura asar Budh ( Budh ki Aashiayan,> > > > Karobaar> > > > > > ya> > > > > > > Rishtedar mutlka Budh ) par hoga." page no 388 edi.1952,> > > > chandrma> > > > > > Khana> > > > > > > no. 4, Mandi halat Term no. 3.> > > > > > > Kyonki Rahu jab jab Chandrma se Drishat hoga ya mushtrka> > hoga> > > > vah> > > > > Budh> > > > > > > ko khrab karega.> > > > > > > Gustakhi ki Kashma chahta hoon.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Regards> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Umesh Sharma> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > , "varun_trvd"> > > > > > > varun_trvd@ wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Respected Wandahl saheb,> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Many thanks for your response. It is a> > > > > > > > pleasure reading your views.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > You have asked ;> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the> > > > > > > > 10th it is mentioned that Upay> > > > > > > > of Mars would be beneficial if there> > > > > > > > is also Moon in the 4th house. Do you> > > > > > > > know the reason for this? I think it> > > > > > > > is difficult to grasp.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > As I understand basically it means that> > > > > > > > in case moon is in the 4th while the> > > > > > > > Rahu is in the 10th then it would result in:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Foggy and unrealistic thoughts, brain> > > > > > > > splitting agony, weak eyes, diminished> > > > > > > > wealth.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > If you notice the areas most> > > > > > > > affected are the karaks of the moon and> > > > > > > > the reason being that Rahu will have an> > > > > > > > aspect on the moon.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > If that happens then the Mars upaya> > > > > > > > should be done> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > with respect and regards,> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > , "Finn> > Wandahl"> > > > > > > > finn.wandahl@ wrote:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Dear Mr. Varun Trivedi,> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Thank you for this very inspirating article on Upaya,> > > > which I> > > > > like> > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > say a few things about. However, I have a rather> > liberal> > > > > approach> > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > Upaya as I consider the Upayas mentioned in Lal Kitab> > to be> > > > > merely> > > > > > > > > suggestions and guidelines meant to stimulate the> > > > intuition,> > > > > > empathy> > > > > > > > > and discriminative power of the astrologer to make him> > > > create> > > > > his> > > > > > > own> > > > > > > > > remedies depending upon the circumstances, time and> > place> > > > of> > > > > each> > > > > > > > > individual client.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > You have given Saturn in the 7th house as an example.> > But> > > > > normally> > > > > > I> > > > > > > > > would perhaps not be much concerned about that. After> > all> > > > it is> > > > > > Ucha> > > > > > > > > (exalted) and even if the 1st house was empty thus> > making> > > > this> > > > > > > Saturn> > > > > > > > > sleeping or dormant it would not cause too much alarm> > > > except> > > > > > perhaps> > > > > > > > > if Ketu was ahead of Saturn thereby turning it> > malefic. In> > > > that> > > > > > case> > > > > > > I> > > > > > > > > might even consider Ketu the problem, since Ketu is> > what> > > > made> > > > > this> > > > > > > > > Saturn Malefic.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Then you say something very interesting about Rahu in> > > > kendras> > > > > > where> > > > > > > > > the planet that gets exalted in the house occupied by> > Rahu> > > > > should> > > > > > be> > > > > > > > > considered for Upay. However, regarding Rahu in the> > first,> > > > it is> > > > > > > > > alreading said in Lal Kitab that the Sun would be> > > > eclipsed, not> > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > Sun itself but the house occupied by the Sun.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > In annual charts, however, I have often had the> > > > experience, that> > > > > > it> > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > really the Sun itself that gets eclipsed and destroyed> > > > when Rahu> > > > > > is> > > > > > > in> > > > > > > > > the first rather than the house occupied by the Sun.> > Rahu> > > > coming> > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > the 1st house can really destroy the rank and position> > of a> > > > > > person.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > However, the problem with Rahu in the 1st in the> > context> > > > of Upay> > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > that the Sun is both significator of the first house> > and> > > > also> > > > > > > exalted> > > > > > > > > there at the same time, and it make little difference> > if we> > > > > > involve> > > > > > > it> > > > > > > > > in Upay for one reason or the other as long as it is> > the> > > > same> > > > > > > planet.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the 10th it is> > mentioned> > > > that> > > > > > Upay> > > > > > > > > of Mars would be beneficial if there is also Moon in> > the> > > > 4th> > > > > > house.> > > > > > > Do> > > > > > > > > you know the reason for this? I think it is difficult> > to> > > > grasp.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Then if Rahu was in the 7th house, Saturn would hardly> > be> > > > my> > > > > first> > > > > > > > > choice for remedy even though it is exalted there. I> > would> > > > no> > > > > > doubt> > > > > > > > > consider Venus first and perhaps also Mercury if> > daughters> > > > or> > > > > > > sisters> > > > > > > > > were involved.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Rahu in the 4th by itself should not be a problem as> > it has> > > > > takes> > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > > oath not to cause evil when alone or with the Moon in> > 4th> > > > house.> > > > > I> > > > > > > > > don't know if remedy of Jupiter could be used in case> > of> > > > Rahu> > > > > > being> > > > > > > > > malefic in the 4th. I think Moon or perhaps Saturn> > would> > > > be my> > > > > > first> > > > > > > > > choice in such a case.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Best regards,> > > > > > > > > Finn Wandahl> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > --- In> > , "varun_trvd"> > > > > > > > > varun_trvd@ wrote:> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Respected members,> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Devising the form of upaya:> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Lal Kitab 1952 urdu ed page 620 last lines :> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Saturn in the 7th house> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Khand se bharkar bansari bahar veerane mein> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > dabana mubarik, basharte ki Shanishchar soya> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > na ho; agar soya ho to shahad ke bartan ka> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > upaya madadgar hoga> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > At the first reading it would appear that if the> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Saturn is not dormant [ soya hua] then bury in> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > a barren place a flute filled with desi sugar [> > khand ] ;> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > if the Saturn is dormant then bury a pot filled with> > > > honey.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > But it is not so. That is not the correct> > understanding> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > So much so a well known Lal Kitab scholar> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > made a slip when he wrote in his book for Saturn in> > 7th:> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > kisi bartan ko shahad se bharkar bahar> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > dabane ka upaya sahayak hoga> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > The correct upaya is to establish at home in> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > the south west corner a pot filled with honey.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Thus the correct upaya is establishing and not> > burying.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > This has already been discussed here in the group.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Those who wish to read the logic behind establishing> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > can go to the archives and read.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > I began by giving this example to show how> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > difficult it is to devise an upaya and more so to> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > decide the form of upaya> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > In most cases, the Lal Kitab does not> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > explain the form of upaya to be done. It just> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > suggests that the upaya for such-n-such planet> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > be done e.g. mangal ka upaya madadgar hoga.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > This statement by itself is not very helpful. It is> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > the Lalkitabist who has to decide the form of this> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > mangal ka upaya. He has to decide whether the> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > karaks of mangal are to be immersed in flowing> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > water, or gifted at a temple or buried and so on.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > The upaya devised has to be correct and effective.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > This needs a very good understanding of the> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > system and a very wide experience.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Let me explain this with an example :> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > For Rahu placed in the Kendra houses, it is advised> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > that the upaya should be done of the planet which> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > gets exalted in that house.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Therefore, if the Rahu is placed in the 1st house> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > and has been identified as malefic then surya ka> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > upaya madadgar hoga. Now what should be the> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > form of this surya ka upaya. Should we immerse> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > the karaks of the Sun in flowing water, or should> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > we bury the karaks of the sun, or should we offer> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > the karaks of the sun at a temple, or any other> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > form of upaya to be devised.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Thankfully in this case it has been indicated that> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > the karaks of the Sun should be gifted at a temple.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > This is done to strengthen the Sun so that he> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > could withstand the eclipsing ability of Rahu.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > But for the same Rahu in the 10th house the book> > says:> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > khali mandir se rahu sota, tez swabhav manda ho> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > mitra grah par keechad deta, upaya mangal ka uttam ho> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Now in this case no indication has been given as to> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > what will be the form of mangal ka upaya, like the> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > in the case of Rahu in the 1st house where gifting> > the> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > karaks of Sun has been indicated. Will gifting the> > karaks> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > of mangal at any temple be a correct upaya?> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > If not, then what should be the form of the upaya ?> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > A rahu placed in the 10th can not do any damage to> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Saturn but it will definitely harm the significations> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > of the 10th house, be it a job or name or fame.> > > > Therefore,> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > if the rahu is adjudged as malefic, then an upaya> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > will become necessary. So what would be the form> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > of the upaya. We know that mangal will help, but in> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > what form? It is the Lalkitabist who has to decide> > the> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > form of the upaya.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Since the book says:> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Rahu ka manda asar teve wale par nahi hoga :> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > jab mangal nek ho> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > In this case the Rahu has to be brought under control> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > such that it is not able to damage the> > significations of> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > the 10th house. Since Mangal shubh alone can control> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Rahu therefore the karak of mangal shubh has to be> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > established at home, keep at home a little honey> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > in a silver dibbi towards the west. This upaya will> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > keep the belligerent Rahu under control.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Now you know the difference. In one case it is> > gifting> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > the karaks which would be an effective upaya where as> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > in the next case it is establishing a karak would be> > an> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > effective upaya.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Therefore devising upaya is a science which a> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Lalkitabist has to learn. It comes with time and> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > experience. That is why upaya suggested through> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > ready reckoners do not work.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Regards,> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

June 22, 2008

Dear Varun Trivedi,

>>...[ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says: " Ketu mande ho madad guru

ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho " . Here Jupiter is used to strengthen

ketu. There is nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for strengthening

another friendly planet...<<

Sure, this is a sound explanation. But perhaps there is more to it. an

additional explanation could be that Ketu is debilitated in the 3rd

house, and therefore Jupiter could be suggested to strengten Ketu,

because Jupiter rules the 9th house (Sagittarius) where Ketu is

exalted. This way exaltation would undo debilitation, so to speak.

:-)

Finn Wandahl

, " varun_trvd "

<varun_trvd wrote:

>

> Respected Umesh ji,

>

> My views on the issues you have raised.

>

> [ 1 ] Lal Kitab varshphal sarini :

>

> In traditional vedic Jyotish there are quite a few

>

> methods prevalent for working out the Varshphal

>

> kundali. The Lal Kitab has suggested yet another

>

> method. Therefore there is nothing unusual or

>

> surprising about the method.

>

> The major question is what could have been the

>

> logic or the arithmetic applied to generate the table.

>

> We know that unless there was some formula the

>

> table could not have been generated. We do not

>

> know the formula as yet. But sure one day the

>

> formula would be known. Till such time the formula

>

> used is found out, let us not treat the sarini as some

>

> thing super natural. There is nothing mystical or

>

> super natural about it. It is an ordinary table; there are

>

> hundreds of such tables used in the traditional astrology

>

> [ 2 ] For sun + mars the book says :

>

> asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho

>

> This is simple to explain, have a look at what

>

> constitutes these two planets.

>

> Mars = sun + mercury

>

> Sun = mercury + venus

>

> If you notice this combination is all mercury

>

> and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore

>

> it is natural that this combination will not be

>

> conducive for moon.

>

> [ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says :

>

> Ketu mande ho madad guru ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho

>

> Here Jupiter is used to strengthen ketu. There is

>

> nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

>

> practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

>

> strengthening another friendly planet.

>

> With great respect and regards,

>

> Varun Trivedi

June 22, 2008

Respected finn saheb,

Thank you so much for adding a new perspective to the explanation.

Yes, you are right; this is the reason why taking the help of

jupiter has been suggested.

Regards,

Varun Trivedi

, " Finn Wandahl "

<finn.wandahl wrote:

>

> Dear Varun Trivedi,

>

> >>...[ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says: " Ketu mande ho madad

guru

> ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho " . Here Jupiter is used to

strengthen

> ketu. There is nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

> practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

strengthening

> another friendly planet...<<

>

> Sure, this is a sound explanation. But perhaps there is more to

it. an

> additional explanation could be that Ketu is debilitated in the 3rd

> house, and therefore Jupiter could be suggested to strengten Ketu,

> because Jupiter rules the 9th house (Sagittarius) where Ketu is

> exalted. This way exaltation would undo debilitation, so to speak.

>

> :-)

>

> Finn Wandahl

>

> , " varun_trvd "

> <varun_trvd@> wrote:

> >

> > Respected Umesh ji,

> >

> > My views on the issues you have raised.

> >

> > [ 1 ] Lal Kitab varshphal sarini :

> >

> > In traditional vedic Jyotish there are quite a few

> >

> > methods prevalent for working out the Varshphal

> >

> > kundali. The Lal Kitab has suggested yet another

> >

> > method. Therefore there is nothing unusual or

> >

> > surprising about the method.

> >

> > The major question is what could have been the

> >

> > logic or the arithmetic applied to generate the table.

> >

> > We know that unless there was some formula the

> >

> > table could not have been generated. We do not

> >

> > know the formula as yet. But sure one day the

> >

> > formula would be known. Till such time the formula

> >

> > used is found out, let us not treat the sarini as some

> >

> > thing super natural. There is nothing mystical or

> >

> > super natural about it. It is an ordinary table; there are

> >

> > hundreds of such tables used in the traditional astrology

> >

> > [ 2 ] For sun + mars the book says :

> >

> > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho

> >

> > This is simple to explain, have a look at what

> >

> > constitutes these two planets.

> >

> > Mars = sun + mercury

> >

> > Sun = mercury + venus

> >

> > If you notice this combination is all mercury

> >

> > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore

> >

> > it is natural that this combination will not be

> >

> > conducive for moon.

> >

> > [ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says :

> >

> > Ketu mande ho madad guru ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho

> >

> > Here Jupiter is used to strengthen ketu. There is

> >

> > nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

> >

> > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

> >

> > strengthening another friendly planet.

> >

> > With great respect and regards,

> >

> > Varun Trivedi

>

June 24, 2008

Respected Varun ji,

You Say,

For sun + mars the book says :

asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho

This is simple to explain, have a look at what

constitutes these two planets.

Mars = sun + mercury

Sun = mercury + venus

If you notice this combination is all mercury

and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore

it is natural that this combination will not be

conducive for moon.

MY QUESTION IS

1.HAS THE VENUS IS HAVING ENIMITY WITH MOON?

2.HAS THE MOON IS HAVING ENEMITY WITH MERCURY?

REGARDS AND WITH ALL RESPECT

UMESH SHARMA

-- In , " varun_trvd "

<varun_trvd wrote:

>

> Respected Umesh ji,

>

> My views on the issues you have raised.

>

> [ 1 ] Lal Kitab varshphal sarini :

>

> In traditional vedic Jyotish there are quite a few

>

> methods prevalent for working out the Varshphal

>

> kundali. The Lal Kitab has suggested yet another

>

> method. Therefore there is nothing unusual or

>

> surprising about the method.

>

> The major question is what could have been the

>

> logic or the arithmetic applied to generate the table.

>

> We know that unless there was some formula the

>

> table could not have been generated. We do not

>

> know the formula as yet. But sure one day the

>

> formula would be known. Till such time the formula

>

> used is found out, let us not treat the sarini as some

>

> thing super natural. There is nothing mystical or

>

> super natural about it. It is an ordinary table; there are

>

> hundreds of such tables used in the traditional astrology

>

> [ 2 ] For sun + mars the book says :

>

> asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho

>

> This is simple to explain, have a look at what

>

> constitutes these two planets.

>

> Mars = sun + mercury

>

> Sun = mercury + venus

>

> If you notice this combination is all mercury

>

> and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore

>

> it is natural that this combination will not be

>

> conducive for moon.

>

> [ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says :

>

> Ketu mande ho madad guru ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho

>

> Here Jupiter is used to strengthen ketu. There is

>

> nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

>

> practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

>

> strengthening another friendly planet.

>

> With great respect and regards,

>

> Varun Trivedi

>

, " Umesh Sharma "

> <mudit982001@> wrote:

> >

> > Respected Gill j]==[,

> >

> > There are so many other Terms which we are not understand. As

example

> >

> > 1. What are the logic of Varshaphal Sarani?

> >

> > 2. Why Moon is week or Manda when Sun and Mars are combind?

> >

> > 3. When Ketu in 3rd than why we do upay of Jupiter?

> >

> > So many other questions.

> >

> > because, i am a practioner astrologer and from last 15 yrs of my

> > astrological life i use these terms as it is and get success. So

i

> have

> > no doubt. I think one bigger difference in you and me that you

are not

> a

> > professional astrologer but I am. I think Astrology is your

Hobby but

> > in my case it is my " Bread & Butter " so I have " PURAN SHARDHA " on

this

> > book. I Discuss and understand the theory of Lal-Kitab from other

> > scholars,. As You, Sh. Vareun Trivedi ji, Sh. Bhooshan Priya

ji,, Sh.

> > Kulbeer ji, Sh. Yograj Prabhakar ji, Sh. Lalkitabi ji, Sh.

> > L.K.Vashishath ji, Late Sh. B.R.Gupta ( My Father-in-Law). No

doubt,

> > you are doing the good job in favour of Lal-kitab, keep it up.

> >

> > Regards

> >

> > Umesh Sharma

> >

> > , " gill_hs2005 "

> > gill_hs2005@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Sir umesh ji,

> > >

> > > Agar budh itna taqatvar hai ki dono rahu aur ketu ko apne

dayre mein

> > > bandh kar rakh sakta hai, to rahu manda hone par budh par

parbhav

> > > kaise padega? Jo taqat dono ko bandh kar rakh sakti hai vah

taqat

> > > rahu aur ketu dono se badi huyee ki nahi. Apki baat se yeh

samajh

> > > mein aya ki rahu aur ketu budh ke adheen hain na ki budh in

dono ke.

> > > Jab budh rahu ketu ke adheen hi nahin hai to rahu ya ketu ke

mande

> > > hone ka asar budh par kaise ho sakta hai, yeh baat samajh mein

nahi

> > > ayee.

> > >

> > > Sincerely,

> > >

> > > HS Gill

> > >

> > > , " Umesh Sharma "

> > > mudit982001@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Respected Gill ji,

> > > > " Rahu-Ketu jo Pap gine hain, Grah sab hi ko ghumate hain ,

> > > > Guru Akela Do ko chalave, ghumtey par vo budh main hain "

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Regards

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Umesh Sharma

> > > >

> > > > , " gill_hs2005 "

> > > > <gill_hs2005@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Sir Umesh Sharma ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > > 1. page no 386 Moon in 4th house

> > > > > > Manda asar

> > > > > > Note #3. Sar Fat jaye, Rahu ka manda asar Budh ( Budh ki

> > > > > Aashiyaan,

> > > > > > Karobaar ya Rishtedaar__ Mutlka budh) par hoga { Rahu

Khana #

> > > 10}

> > > > >

> > > > > Agar chander 4 hai aur rahu 10 mein to budh par gaaz kyon

giri ?

> > > > > budh ka talluk na to khana 4 se hai aur nahi khana 10 se.

budh

> in

> > > > > dono gharon mein bhi nahi hai to phir budh ki ashiya,

karobar ya

> > > > > rishtedar par bura asar kaise padega?

> > > > >

> > > > > Sincerely,

> > > > >

> > > > > HS Gill

> > > > >

> > > > > , " Umesh Sharma "

> > > > > mudit982001@ wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Respected Sir,

> > > > > > Now there are two Statements in this regards

> > > > > > 1. page no 386 Moon in 4th house

> > > > > > Manda asar

> > > > > > Note #3. Sar Fat jaye, Rahu ka manda asar Budh ( Budh ki

> > > > > Aashiyaan,

> > > > > > Karobaar ya Rishtedaar__ Mutlka budh) par hoga { Rahu

Khana #

> > > 10}

> > > > > > 2. RAHU in house # 10 :

> > > > > > 1952 urdu ed : Page 680 ; note # 9

> > > > > > Khyali dimagi dhuan bayas pareshani – dimagh

> > > > > > phate ya sar kate ya nazar gum ho jave- aur dhan

> > > > > > daulat par bijli ki tarah manda asar hoga

> > > > > > [ Chandra khana # 4 ]

> > > > > > HOW TO DECIDE WHICH STATEMENT IS APPLICABLE?

> > > > > > Bhai yograj ji ki baat bilkul sahi hey par mere hisab se

Grah

> > > ka

> > > > > Khana

> > > > > > main akele bethe hone par honi chahiye. Yahan par to Rahu

> > > Chandar

> > > > > se

> > > > > > drishat ho raha hey. May be i wrong.

> > > > > >

> > > > > With

> > > > > > Regards

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Umesh Sharma

> > > > > >

> > > > > > #1. Moon in 4th and rahu in 10th

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , " varun_trvd "

> > > > > > <varun_trvd@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Respected Umesh ji,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > RAHU in house # 10 :

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 1952 urdu ed : Page 680 ; note # 9

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Khyali dimagi dhuan bayas pareshani – dimagh

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > phate ya sar kate ya nazar gum ho jave- aur dhan

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > daulat par bijli ki tarah manda asar hoga

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > [ Chandra khana # 4 ]

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > While answering to Wandahl ji, the context he

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > had asked me to explain from was Rahu in the

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 10th house. Therefore I had translated the above

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > lines from the book into English for my answer.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > With great respect and regards,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > , " Umesh

Sharma "

> > > > > > > mudit982001@ wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Respected Varun ji,

> > > > > > > > If Moon in 4th and Rahu in 10th the result is

> > > > > > > > " Sir Fat Jaye, Rahu ka bura asar Budh ( Budh ki

> Aashiayan,

> > > > > Karobaar

> > > > > > > ya

> > > > > > > > Rishtedar mutlka Budh ) par hoga. " page no 388

edi.1952,

> > > > > chandrma

> > > > > > > Khana

> > > > > > > > no. 4, Mandi halat Term no. 3.

> > > > > > > > Kyonki Rahu jab jab Chandrma se Drishat hoga ya

mushtrka

> > > hoga

> > > > > vah

> > > > > > Budh

> > > > > > > > ko khrab karega.

> > > > > > > > Gustakhi ki Kashma chahta hoon.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Umesh Sharma

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --- In

, " varun_trvd "

> > > > > > > > varun_trvd@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Respected Wandahl saheb,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Many thanks for your response. It is a

> > > > > > > > > pleasure reading your views.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > You have asked ;

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the

> > > > > > > > > 10th it is mentioned that Upay

> > > > > > > > > of Mars would be beneficial if there

> > > > > > > > > is also Moon in the 4th house. Do you

> > > > > > > > > know the reason for this? I think it

> > > > > > > > > is difficult to grasp.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > As I understand basically it means that

> > > > > > > > > in case moon is in the 4th while the

> > > > > > > > > Rahu is in the 10th then it would result in:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Foggy and unrealistic thoughts, brain

> > > > > > > > > splitting agony, weak eyes, diminished

> > > > > > > > > wealth.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > If you notice the areas most

> > > > > > > > > affected are the karaks of the moon and

> > > > > > > > > the reason being that Rahu will have an

> > > > > > > > > aspect on the moon.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > If that happens then the Mars upaya

> > > > > > > > > should be done

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > with respect and regards,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > , " Finn

> > > Wandahl "

> > > > > > > > > finn.wandahl@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Mr. Varun Trivedi,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Thank you for this very inspirating article on

Upaya,

> > > > > which I

> > > > > > like

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > say a few things about. However, I have a rather

> > > liberal

> > > > > > approach

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > Upaya as I consider the Upayas mentioned in Lal

Kitab

> > > to be

> > > > > > merely

> > > > > > > > > > suggestions and guidelines meant to stimulate the

> > > > > intuition,

> > > > > > > empathy

> > > > > > > > > > and discriminative power of the astrologer to

make him

> > > > > create

> > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > own

> > > > > > > > > > remedies depending upon the circumstances, time

and

> > > place

> > > > > of

> > > > > > each

> > > > > > > > > > individual client.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > You have given Saturn in the 7th house as an

example.

> > > But

> > > > > > normally

> > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > would perhaps not be much concerned about that.

After

> > > all

> > > > > it is

> > > > > > > Ucha

> > > > > > > > > > (exalted) and even if the 1st house was empty

thus

> > > making

> > > > > this

> > > > > > > > Saturn

> > > > > > > > > > sleeping or dormant it would not cause too much

alarm

> > > > > except

> > > > > > > perhaps

> > > > > > > > > > if Ketu was ahead of Saturn thereby turning it

> > > malefic. In

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > case

> > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > might even consider Ketu the problem, since Ketu

is

> > > what

> > > > > made

> > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > Saturn Malefic.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Then you say something very interesting about

Rahu in

> > > > > kendras

> > > > > > > where

> > > > > > > > > > the planet that gets exalted in the house

occupied by

> > > Rahu

> > > > > > should

> > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > considered for Upay. However, regarding Rahu in

the

> > > first,

> > > > > it is

> > > > > > > > > > alreading said in Lal Kitab that the Sun would be

> > > > > eclipsed, not

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > Sun itself but the house occupied by the Sun.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > In annual charts, however, I have often had the

> > > > > experience, that

> > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > really the Sun itself that gets eclipsed and

destroyed

> > > > > when Rahu

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > the first rather than the house occupied by the

Sun.

> > > Rahu

> > > > > coming

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > the 1st house can really destroy the rank and

position

> > > of a

> > > > > > > person.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > However, the problem with Rahu in the 1st in the

> > > context

> > > > > of Upay

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > that the Sun is both significator of the first

house

> > > and

> > > > > also

> > > > > > > > exalted

> > > > > > > > > > there at the same time, and it make little

difference

> > > if we

> > > > > > > involve

> > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > in Upay for one reason or the other as long as

it is

> > > the

> > > > > same

> > > > > > > > planet.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the 10th it is

> > > mentioned

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > Upay

> > > > > > > > > > of Mars would be beneficial if there is also

Moon in

> > > the

> > > > > 4th

> > > > > > > house.

> > > > > > > > Do

> > > > > > > > > > you know the reason for this? I think it is

difficult

> > > to

> > > > > grasp.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Then if Rahu was in the 7th house, Saturn would

hardly

> > > be

> > > > > my

> > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > choice for remedy even though it is exalted

there. I

> > > would

> > > > > no

> > > > > > > doubt

> > > > > > > > > > consider Venus first and perhaps also Mercury if

> > > daughters

> > > > > or

> > > > > > > > sisters

> > > > > > > > > > were involved.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Rahu in the 4th by itself should not be a

problem as

> > > it has

> > > > > > takes

> > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > oath not to cause evil when alone or with the

Moon in

> > > 4th

> > > > > house.

> > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > don't know if remedy of Jupiter could be used in

case

> > > of

> > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > being

> > > > > > > > > > malefic in the 4th. I think Moon or perhaps

Saturn

> > > would

> > > > > be my

> > > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > choice in such a case.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Best regards,

> > > > > > > > > > Finn Wandahl

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > , " varun_trvd "

> > > > > > > > > > varun_trvd@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Respected members,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Devising the form of upaya:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Lal Kitab 1952 urdu ed page 620 last lines :

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Saturn in the 7th house

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Khand se bharkar bansari bahar veerane mein

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > dabana mubarik, basharte ki Shanishchar soya

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > na ho; agar soya ho to shahad ke bartan ka

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > upaya madadgar hoga

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > At the first reading it would appear that if

the

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Saturn is not dormant [ soya hua] then bury in

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > a barren place a flute filled with desi sugar [

> > > khand ] ;

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > if the Saturn is dormant then bury a pot

filled with

> > > > > honey.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > But it is not so. That is not the correct

> > > understanding

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > So much so a well known Lal Kitab scholar

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > made a slip when he wrote in his book for

Saturn in

> > > 7th:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > kisi bartan ko shahad se bharkar bahar

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > dabane ka upaya sahayak hoga

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > The correct upaya is to establish at home in

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > the south west corner a pot filled with honey.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Thus the correct upaya is establishing and not

> > > burying.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > This has already been discussed here in the

group.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Those who wish to read the logic behind

establishing

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > can go to the archives and read.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I began by giving this example to show how

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > difficult it is to devise an upaya and more so

to

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > decide the form of upaya

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > In most cases, the Lal Kitab does not

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > explain the form of upaya to be done. It just

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > suggests that the upaya for such-n-such planet

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > be done e.g. mangal ka upaya madadgar hoga.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > This statement by itself is not very helpful.

It is

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > the Lalkitabist who has to decide the form of

this

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > mangal ka upaya. He has to decide whether the

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > karaks of mangal are to be immersed in flowing

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > water, or gifted at a temple or buried and so

on.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > The upaya devised has to be correct and

effective.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > This needs a very good understanding of the

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > system and a very wide experience.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Let me explain this with an example :

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > For Rahu placed in the Kendra houses, it is

advised

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > that the upaya should be done of the planet

which

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > gets exalted in that house.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, if the Rahu is placed in the 1st

house

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > and has been identified as malefic then surya

ka

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > upaya madadgar hoga. Now what should be the

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > form of this surya ka upaya. Should we immerse

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > the karaks of the Sun in flowing water, or

should

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > we bury the karaks of the sun, or should we

offer

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > the karaks of the sun at a temple, or any other

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > form of upaya to be devised.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Thankfully in this case it has been indicated

that

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > the karaks of the Sun should be gifted at a

temple.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > This is done to strengthen the Sun so that he

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > could withstand the eclipsing ability of Rahu.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > But for the same Rahu in the 10th house the

book

> > > says:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > khali mandir se rahu sota, tez swabhav manda ho

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > mitra grah par keechad deta, upaya mangal ka

uttam

> ho

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Now in this case no indication has been given

as to

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > what will be the form of mangal ka upaya, like

the

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > in the case of Rahu in the 1st house where

gifting

> > > the

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > karaks of Sun has been indicated. Will gifting

the

> > > karaks

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > of mangal at any temple be a correct upaya?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > If not, then what should be the form of the

upaya ?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > A rahu placed in the 10th can not do any

damage to

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Saturn but it will definitely harm the

> significations

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > of the 10th house, be it a job or name or fame.

> > > > > Therefore,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > if the rahu is adjudged as malefic, then an

upaya

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > will become necessary. So what would be the

form

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > of the upaya. We know that mangal will help,

but in

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > what form? It is the Lalkitabist who has to

decide

> > > the

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > form of the upaya.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Since the book says:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Rahu ka manda asar teve wale par nahi hoga :

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > jab mangal nek ho

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > In this case the Rahu has to be brought under

> control

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > such that it is not able to damage the

> > > significations of

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > the 10th house. Since Mangal shubh alone can

control

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Rahu therefore the karak of mangal shubh has

to be

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > established at home, keep at home a little

honey

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > in a silver dibbi towards the west. This upaya

will

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > keep the belligerent Rahu under control.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Now you know the difference. In one case it is

> > > gifting

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > the karaks which would be an effective upaya

where

> as

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > in the next case it is establishing a karak

would be

> > > an

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > effective upaya.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Therefore devising upaya is a science which a

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Lalkitabist has to learn. It comes with time

and

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > experience. That is why upaya suggested through

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > ready reckoners do not work.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

June 25, 2008

Aadarneeya Umesh ji,

The moon doesn't consider any planet as its enemy. But Mercury and

Venus both consider the moon as their enemy. Since both the planets

consider moon as the enemy, they are likely to adversely affect the

moon.

With regards,

Varun Trivedi

, " Umesh Sharma "

<mudit982001 wrote:

>

> Respected Varun ji,

> You Say,

> For sun + mars the book says :

> asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho

> This is simple to explain, have a look at what

> constitutes these two planets.

> Mars = sun + mercury

> Sun = mercury + venus

> If you notice this combination is all mercury

> and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore

> it is natural that this combination will not be

> conducive for moon.

> MY QUESTION IS

> 1.HAS THE VENUS IS HAVING ENIMITY WITH MOON?

> 2.HAS THE MOON IS HAVING ENEMITY WITH MERCURY?

> REGARDS AND WITH ALL RESPECT

> UMESH SHARMA

>

> -- In , " varun_trvd "

> <varun_trvd@> wrote:

> >

> > Respected Umesh ji,

> >

> > My views on the issues you have raised.

> >

> > [ 1 ] Lal Kitab varshphal sarini :

> >

> > In traditional vedic Jyotish there are quite a few

> >

> > methods prevalent for working out the Varshphal

> >

> > kundali. The Lal Kitab has suggested yet another

> >

> > method. Therefore there is nothing unusual or

> >

> > surprising about the method.

> >

> > The major question is what could have been the

> >

> > logic or the arithmetic applied to generate the table.

> >

> > We know that unless there was some formula the

> >

> > table could not have been generated. We do not

> >

> > know the formula as yet. But sure one day the

> >

> > formula would be known. Till such time the formula

> >

> > used is found out, let us not treat the sarini as some

> >

> > thing super natural. There is nothing mystical or

> >

> > super natural about it. It is an ordinary table; there are

> >

> > hundreds of such tables used in the traditional astrology

> >

> > [ 2 ] For sun + mars the book says :

> >

> > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho

> >

> > This is simple to explain, have a look at what

> >

> > constitutes these two planets.

> >

> > Mars = sun + mercury

> >

> > Sun = mercury + venus

> >

> > If you notice this combination is all mercury

> >

> > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore

> >

> > it is natural that this combination will not be

> >

> > conducive for moon.

> >

> > [ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says :

> >

> > Ketu mande ho madad guru ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho

> >

> > Here Jupiter is used to strengthen ketu. There is

> >

> > nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

> >

> > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

> >

> > strengthening another friendly planet.

> >

> > With great respect and regards,

> >

> > Varun Trivedi

> >

> > , " Umesh Sharma "

> > <mudit982001@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Respected Gill j]==[,

> > >

> > > There are so many other Terms which we are not understand. As

> example

> > >

> > > 1. What are the logic of Varshaphal Sarani?

> > >

> > > 2. Why Moon is week or Manda when Sun and Mars are combind?

> > >

> > > 3. When Ketu in 3rd than why we do upay of Jupiter?

> > >

> > > So many other questions.

> > >

> > > because, i am a practioner astrologer and from last 15 yrs of

my

> > > astrological life i use these terms as it is and get success.

So

> i

> > have

> > > no doubt. I think one bigger difference in you and me that you

> are not

> > a

> > > professional astrologer but I am. I think Astrology is your

> Hobby but

> > > in my case it is my " Bread & Butter " so I have " PURAN SHARDHA "

on

> this

> > > book. I Discuss and understand the theory of Lal-Kitab from

other

> > > scholars,. As You, Sh. Vareun Trivedi ji, Sh. Bhooshan Priya

> ji,, Sh.

> > > Kulbeer ji, Sh. Yograj Prabhakar ji, Sh. Lalkitabi ji, Sh.

> > > L.K.Vashishath ji, Late Sh. B.R.Gupta ( My Father-in-Law). No

> doubt,

> > > you are doing the good job in favour of Lal-kitab, keep it up.

> > >

> > > Regards

> > >

> > > Umesh Sharma

> > >

> > > , " gill_hs2005 "

> > > gill_hs2005@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Sir umesh ji,

> > > >

> > > > Agar budh itna taqatvar hai ki dono rahu aur ketu ko apne

> dayre mein

> > > > bandh kar rakh sakta hai, to rahu manda hone par budh par

> parbhav

> > > > kaise padega? Jo taqat dono ko bandh kar rakh sakti hai vah

> taqat

> > > > rahu aur ketu dono se badi huyee ki nahi. Apki baat se yeh

> samajh

> > > > mein aya ki rahu aur ketu budh ke adheen hain na ki budh in

> dono ke.

> > > > Jab budh rahu ketu ke adheen hi nahin hai to rahu ya ketu ke

> mande

> > > > hone ka asar budh par kaise ho sakta hai, yeh baat samajh

mein

> nahi

> > > > ayee.

> > > >

> > > > Sincerely,

> > > >

> > > > HS Gill

> > > >

> > > > , " Umesh Sharma "

> > > > mudit982001@ wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Respected Gill ji,

> > > > > " Rahu-Ketu jo Pap gine hain, Grah sab hi ko ghumate hain ,

> > > > > Guru Akela Do ko chalave, ghumtey par vo budh main hain "

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > Regards

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > Umesh Sharma

> > > > >

> > > > > , " gill_hs2005 "

> > > > > <gill_hs2005@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sir Umesh Sharma ji,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > 1. page no 386 Moon in 4th house

> > > > > > > Manda asar

> > > > > > > Note #3. Sar Fat jaye, Rahu ka manda asar Budh ( Budh

ki

> > > > > > Aashiyaan,

> > > > > > > Karobaar ya Rishtedaar__ Mutlka budh) par hoga { Rahu

> Khana #

> > > > 10}

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Agar chander 4 hai aur rahu 10 mein to budh par gaaz

kyon

> giri ?

> > > > > > budh ka talluk na to khana 4 se hai aur nahi khana 10

se.

> budh

> > in

> > > > > > dono gharon mein bhi nahi hai to phir budh ki ashiya,

> karobar ya

> > > > > > rishtedar par bura asar kaise padega?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sincerely,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > HS Gill

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , " Umesh

Sharma "

> > > > > > mudit982001@ wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Respected Sir,

> > > > > > > Now there are two Statements in this regards

> > > > > > > 1. page no 386 Moon in 4th house

> > > > > > > Manda asar

> > > > > > > Note #3. Sar Fat jaye, Rahu ka manda asar Budh ( Budh

ki

> > > > > > Aashiyaan,

> > > > > > > Karobaar ya Rishtedaar__ Mutlka budh) par hoga { Rahu

> Khana #

> > > > 10}

> > > > > > > 2. RAHU in house # 10 :

> > > > > > > 1952 urdu ed : Page 680 ; note # 9

> > > > > > > Khyali dimagi dhuan bayas pareshani – dimagh

> > > > > > > phate ya sar kate ya nazar gum ho jave- aur dhan

> > > > > > > daulat par bijli ki tarah manda asar hoga

> > > > > > > [ Chandra khana # 4 ]

> > > > > > > HOW TO DECIDE WHICH STATEMENT IS APPLICABLE?

> > > > > > > Bhai yograj ji ki baat bilkul sahi hey par mere hisab

se

> Grah

> > > > ka

> > > > > > Khana

> > > > > > > main akele bethe hone par honi chahiye. Yahan par to

Rahu

> > > > Chandar

> > > > > > se

> > > > > > > drishat ho raha hey. May be i wrong.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > With

> > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Umesh Sharma

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > #1. Moon in 4th and rahu in 10th

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --- In

, " varun_trvd "

> > > > > > > <varun_trvd@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Respected Umesh ji,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > RAHU in house # 10 :

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 1952 urdu ed : Page 680 ; note # 9

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Khyali dimagi dhuan bayas pareshani – dimagh

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > phate ya sar kate ya nazar gum ho jave- aur dhan

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > daulat par bijli ki tarah manda asar hoga

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > [ Chandra khana # 4 ]

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > While answering to Wandahl ji, the context he

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > had asked me to explain from was Rahu in the

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 10th house. Therefore I had translated the above

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > lines from the book into English for my answer.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > With great respect and regards,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > , " Umesh

> Sharma "

> > > > > > > > mudit982001@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Respected Varun ji,

> > > > > > > > > If Moon in 4th and Rahu in 10th the result is

> > > > > > > > > " Sir Fat Jaye, Rahu ka bura asar Budh ( Budh ki

> > Aashiayan,

> > > > > > Karobaar

> > > > > > > > ya

> > > > > > > > > Rishtedar mutlka Budh ) par hoga. " page no 388

> edi.1952,

> > > > > > chandrma

> > > > > > > > Khana

> > > > > > > > > no. 4, Mandi halat Term no. 3.

> > > > > > > > > Kyonki Rahu jab jab Chandrma se Drishat hoga ya

> mushtrka

> > > > hoga

> > > > > > vah

> > > > > > > Budh

> > > > > > > > > ko khrab karega.

> > > > > > > > > Gustakhi ki Kashma chahta hoon.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Umesh Sharma

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --- In

> , " varun_trvd "

> > > > > > > > > varun_trvd@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Respected Wandahl saheb,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Many thanks for your response. It is a

> > > > > > > > > > pleasure reading your views.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > You have asked ;

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the

> > > > > > > > > > 10th it is mentioned that Upay

> > > > > > > > > > of Mars would be beneficial if there

> > > > > > > > > > is also Moon in the 4th house. Do you

> > > > > > > > > > know the reason for this? I think it

> > > > > > > > > > is difficult to grasp.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > As I understand basically it means that

> > > > > > > > > > in case moon is in the 4th while the

> > > > > > > > > > Rahu is in the 10th then it would result in:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Foggy and unrealistic thoughts, brain

> > > > > > > > > > splitting agony, weak eyes, diminished

> > > > > > > > > > wealth.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > If you notice the areas most

> > > > > > > > > > affected are the karaks of the moon and

> > > > > > > > > > the reason being that Rahu will have an

> > > > > > > > > > aspect on the moon.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > If that happens then the Mars upaya

> > > > > > > > > > should be done

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > with respect and regards,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > , " Finn

> > > > Wandahl "

> > > > > > > > > > finn.wandahl@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Mr. Varun Trivedi,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for this very inspirating article on

> Upaya,

> > > > > > which I

> > > > > > > like

> > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > say a few things about. However, I have a

rather

> > > > liberal

> > > > > > > approach

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > Upaya as I consider the Upayas mentioned in

Lal

> Kitab

> > > > to be

> > > > > > > merely

> > > > > > > > > > > suggestions and guidelines meant to stimulate

the

> > > > > > intuition,

> > > > > > > > empathy

> > > > > > > > > > > and discriminative power of the astrologer to

> make him

> > > > > > create

> > > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > own

> > > > > > > > > > > remedies depending upon the circumstances,

time

> and

> > > > place

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > each

> > > > > > > > > > > individual client.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > You have given Saturn in the 7th house as an

> example.

> > > > But

> > > > > > > normally

> > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > would perhaps not be much concerned about

that.

> After

> > > > all

> > > > > > it is

> > > > > > > > Ucha

> > > > > > > > > > > (exalted) and even if the 1st house was empty

> thus

> > > > making

> > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > Saturn

> > > > > > > > > > > sleeping or dormant it would not cause too

much

> alarm

> > > > > > except

> > > > > > > > perhaps

> > > > > > > > > > > if Ketu was ahead of Saturn thereby turning it

> > > > malefic. In

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > case

> > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > might even consider Ketu the problem, since

Ketu

> is

> > > > what

> > > > > > made

> > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > Saturn Malefic.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Then you say something very interesting about

> Rahu in

> > > > > > kendras

> > > > > > > > where

> > > > > > > > > > > the planet that gets exalted in the house

> occupied by

> > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > should

> > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > considered for Upay. However, regarding Rahu

in

> the

> > > > first,

> > > > > > it is

> > > > > > > > > > > alreading said in Lal Kitab that the Sun would

be

> > > > > > eclipsed, not

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > Sun itself but the house occupied by the Sun.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > In annual charts, however, I have often had the

> > > > > > experience, that

> > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > really the Sun itself that gets eclipsed and

> destroyed

> > > > > > when Rahu

> > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > the first rather than the house occupied by

the

> Sun.

> > > > Rahu

> > > > > > coming

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > the 1st house can really destroy the rank and

> position

> > > > of a

> > > > > > > > person.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > However, the problem with Rahu in the 1st in

the

> > > > context

> > > > > > of Upay

> > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > that the Sun is both significator of the first

> house

> > > > and

> > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > exalted

> > > > > > > > > > > there at the same time, and it make little

> difference

> > > > if we

> > > > > > > > involve

> > > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > in Upay for one reason or the other as long as

> it is

> > > > the

> > > > > > same

> > > > > > > > > planet.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the 10th it

is

> > > > mentioned

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > Upay

> > > > > > > > > > > of Mars would be beneficial if there is also

> Moon in

> > > > the

> > > > > > 4th

> > > > > > > > house.

> > > > > > > > > Do

> > > > > > > > > > > you know the reason for this? I think it is

> difficult

> > > > to

> > > > > > grasp.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Then if Rahu was in the 7th house, Saturn

would

> hardly

> > > > be

> > > > > > my

> > > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > > choice for remedy even though it is exalted

> there. I

> > > > would

> > > > > > no

> > > > > > > > doubt

> > > > > > > > > > > consider Venus first and perhaps also Mercury

if

> > > > daughters

> > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > sisters

> > > > > > > > > > > were involved.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Rahu in the 4th by itself should not be a

> problem as

> > > > it has

> > > > > > > takes

> > > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > oath not to cause evil when alone or with the

> Moon in

> > > > 4th

> > > > > > house.

> > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > don't know if remedy of Jupiter could be used

in

> case

> > > > of

> > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > being

> > > > > > > > > > > malefic in the 4th. I think Moon or perhaps

> Saturn

> > > > would

> > > > > > be my

> > > > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > > choice in such a case.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Best regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > Finn Wandahl

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > , " varun_trvd "

> > > > > > > > > > > varun_trvd@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Respected members,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Devising the form of upaya:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Lal Kitab 1952 urdu ed page 620 last lines :

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn in the 7th house

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Khand se bharkar bansari bahar veerane mein

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > dabana mubarik, basharte ki Shanishchar soya

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > na ho; agar soya ho to shahad ke bartan ka

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > upaya madadgar hoga

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > At the first reading it would appear that if

> the

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn is not dormant [ soya hua] then bury

in

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > a barren place a flute filled with desi

sugar [

> > > > khand ] ;

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > if the Saturn is dormant then bury a pot

> filled with

> > > > > > honey.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > But it is not so. That is not the correct

> > > > understanding

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > So much so a well known Lal Kitab scholar

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > made a slip when he wrote in his book for

> Saturn in

> > > > 7th:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > kisi bartan ko shahad se bharkar bahar

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > dabane ka upaya sahayak hoga

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > The correct upaya is to establish at home in

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > the south west corner a pot filled with

honey.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Thus the correct upaya is establishing and

not

> > > > burying.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > This has already been discussed here in the

> group.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Those who wish to read the logic behind

> establishing

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > can go to the archives and read.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I began by giving this example to show how

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > difficult it is to devise an upaya and more

so

> to

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > decide the form of upaya

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > In most cases, the Lal Kitab does not

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > explain the form of upaya to be done. It just

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > suggests that the upaya for such-n-such

planet

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > be done e.g. mangal ka upaya madadgar hoga.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > This statement by itself is not very

helpful.

> It is

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > the Lalkitabist who has to decide the form

of

> this

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > mangal ka upaya. He has to decide whether the

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > karaks of mangal are to be immersed in

flowing

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > water, or gifted at a temple or buried and

so

> on.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > The upaya devised has to be correct and

> effective.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > This needs a very good understanding of the

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > system and a very wide experience.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Let me explain this with an example :

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > For Rahu placed in the Kendra houses, it is

> advised

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > that the upaya should be done of the planet

> which

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > gets exalted in that house.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, if the Rahu is placed in the 1st

> house

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > and has been identified as malefic then

surya

> ka

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > upaya madadgar hoga. Now what should be the

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > form of this surya ka upaya. Should we

immerse

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks of the Sun in flowing water, or

> should

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > we bury the karaks of the sun, or should we

> offer

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks of the sun at a temple, or any

other

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > form of upaya to be devised.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Thankfully in this case it has been

indicated

> that

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks of the Sun should be gifted at a

> temple.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > This is done to strengthen the Sun so that he

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > could withstand the eclipsing ability of

Rahu.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > But for the same Rahu in the 10th house the

> book

> > > > says:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > khali mandir se rahu sota, tez swabhav manda

ho

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > mitra grah par keechad deta, upaya mangal ka

> uttam

> > ho

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Now in this case no indication has been

given

> as to

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > what will be the form of mangal ka upaya,

like

> the

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > in the case of Rahu in the 1st house where

> gifting

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > karaks of Sun has been indicated. Will

gifting

> the

> > > > karaks

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > of mangal at any temple be a correct upaya?

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > If not, then what should be the form of the

> upaya ?

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > A rahu placed in the 10th can not do any

> damage to

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn but it will definitely harm the

> > significations

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > of the 10th house, be it a job or name or

fame.

> > > > > > Therefore,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > if the rahu is adjudged as malefic, then an

> upaya

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > will become necessary. So what would be the

> form

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > of the upaya. We know that mangal will help,

> but in

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > what form? It is the Lalkitabist who has to

> decide

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > form of the upaya.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Since the book says:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu ka manda asar teve wale par nahi hoga :

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > jab mangal nek ho

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > In this case the Rahu has to be brought under

> > control

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > such that it is not able to damage the

> > > > significations of

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > the 10th house. Since Mangal shubh alone can

> control

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu therefore the karak of mangal shubh has

> to be

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > established at home, keep at home a little

> honey

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > in a silver dibbi towards the west. This

upaya

> will

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > keep the belligerent Rahu under control.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Now you know the difference. In one case it

is

> > > > gifting

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks which would be an effective upaya

> where

> > as

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > in the next case it is establishing a karak

> would be

> > > > an

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > effective upaya.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore devising upaya is a science which a

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Lalkitabist has to learn. It comes with time

> and

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > experience. That is why upaya suggested

through

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > ready reckoners do not work.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

June 25, 2008

dear Varun ji,

please refer to LK 1952.

as i understand, the calculations for Varshphal tables are given in farmaan no.13 under the heading of Varshphal.The main chapter in the beginning relates to the correction of Varshphal chart --Page 215.

In this very chapter,on page 216 of LK 1952 under sub-heading of "har grah ke aam sdharan asar ka waqt", para (1) relates to the claculations for finding the effect of a grah in a particular year of life followed by examples..

Is it so ?

with best wishes;

sincerely,

kiranjit

June 25, 2008

Dear Varun Ji,You are mixing traditional or so termed Vedic Astrology rules in Lalkitab. May you elaborate little on you line " The moon doesn't consider any planet as its enemy " .I don't think these line exists in Lalkitab

YoursShiv Dev KalsiOn Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 11:32 AM, varun_trvd <varun_trvd wrote:

Aadarneeya Umesh ji,

The moon doesn't consider any planet as its enemy. But Mercury and

Venus both consider the moon as their enemy. Since both the planets

consider moon as the enemy, they are likely to adversely affect the

moon.

With regards,

Varun Trivedi

, " Umesh Sharma "

<mudit982001 wrote:

>

> Respected Varun ji,

> You Say,

> For sun + mars the book says :

> asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho

> This is simple to explain, have a look at what

> constitutes these two planets.

> Mars = sun + mercury

> Sun = mercury + venus

> If you notice this combination is all mercury

> and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore

> it is natural that this combination will not be

> conducive for moon.

> MY QUESTION IS

> 1.HAS THE VENUS IS HAVING ENIMITY WITH MOON?

> 2.HAS THE MOON IS HAVING ENEMITY WITH MERCURY?

> REGARDS AND WITH ALL RESPECT

> UMESH SHARMA

>

> -- In , " varun_trvd "

> <varun_trvd@> wrote:

> >

> > Respected Umesh ji,

> >

> > My views on the issues you have raised.

> >

> > [ 1 ] Lal Kitab varshphal sarini :

> >

> > In traditional vedic Jyotish there are quite a few

> >

> > methods prevalent for working out the Varshphal

> >

> > kundali. The Lal Kitab has suggested yet another

> >

> > method. Therefore there is nothing unusual or

> >

> > surprising about the method.

> >

> > The major question is what could have been the

> >

> > logic or the arithmetic applied to generate the table.

> >

> > We know that unless there was some formula the

> >

> > table could not have been generated. We do not

> >

> > know the formula as yet. But sure one day the

> >

> > formula would be known. Till such time the formula

> >

> > used is found out, let us not treat the sarini as some

> >

> > thing super natural. There is nothing mystical or

> >

> > super natural about it. It is an ordinary table; there are

> >

> > hundreds of such tables used in the traditional astrology

> >

> > [ 2 ] For sun + mars the book says :

> >

> > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho

> >

> > This is simple to explain, have a look at what

> >

> > constitutes these two planets.

> >

> > Mars = sun + mercury

> >

> > Sun = mercury + venus

> >

> > If you notice this combination is all mercury

> >

> > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore

> >

> > it is natural that this combination will not be

> >

> > conducive for moon.

> >

> > [ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says :

> >

> > Ketu mande ho madad guru ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho

> >

> > Here Jupiter is used to strengthen ketu. There is

> >

> > nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

> >

> > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

> >

> > strengthening another friendly planet.

> >

> > With great respect and regards,

> >

> > Varun Trivedi

> >

> > , " Umesh Sharma "

> > <mudit982001@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Respected Gill j]==[,

> > >

> > > There are so many other Terms which we are not understand. As

> example

> > >

> > > 1. What are the logic of Varshaphal Sarani?

> > >

> > > 2. Why Moon is week or Manda when Sun and Mars are combind?

> > >

> > > 3. When Ketu in 3rd than why we do upay of Jupiter?

> > >

> > > So many other questions.

> > >

> > > because, i am a practioner astrologer and from last 15 yrs of

my

> > > astrological life i use these terms as it is and get success.

So

> i

> > have

> > > no doubt. I think one bigger difference in you and me that you

> are not

> > a

> > > professional astrologer but I am. I think Astrology is your

> Hobby but

> > > in my case it is my " Bread & Butter " so I have " PURAN SHARDHA "

on

> this

> > > book. I Discuss and understand the theory of Lal-Kitab from

other

> > > scholars,. As You, Sh. Vareun Trivedi ji, Sh. Bhooshan Priya

> ji,, Sh.

> > > Kulbeer ji, Sh. Yograj Prabhakar ji, Sh. Lalkitabi ji, Sh.

> > > L.K.Vashishath ji, Late Sh. B.R.Gupta ( My Father-in-Law). No

> doubt,

> > > you are doing the good job in favour of Lal-kitab, keep it up.

> > >

> > > Regards

> > >

> > > Umesh Sharma

> > >

> > > , " gill_hs2005 "

> > > gill_hs2005@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Sir umesh ji,

> > > >

> > > > Agar budh itna taqatvar hai ki dono rahu aur ketu ko apne

> dayre mein

> > > > bandh kar rakh sakta hai, to rahu manda hone par budh par

> parbhav

> > > > kaise padega? Jo taqat dono ko bandh kar rakh sakti hai vah

> taqat

> > > > rahu aur ketu dono se badi huyee ki nahi. Apki baat se yeh

> samajh

> > > > mein aya ki rahu aur ketu budh ke adheen hain na ki budh in

> dono ke.

> > > > Jab budh rahu ketu ke adheen hi nahin hai to rahu ya ketu ke

> mande

> > > > hone ka asar budh par kaise ho sakta hai, yeh baat samajh

mein

> nahi

> > > > ayee.

> > > >

> > > > Sincerely,

> > > >

> > > > HS Gill

> > > >

> > > > , " Umesh Sharma "

> > > > mudit982001@ wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Respected Gill ji,

> > > > > " Rahu-Ketu jo Pap gine hain, Grah sab hi ko ghumate hain ,

> > > > > Guru Akela Do ko chalave, ghumtey par vo budh main hain "

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > Regards

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > Umesh Sharma

> > > > >

> > > > > , " gill_hs2005 "

> > > > > <gill_hs2005@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sir Umesh Sharma ji,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > 1. page no 386 Moon in 4th house

> > > > > > > Manda asar

> > > > > > > Note #3. Sar Fat jaye, Rahu ka manda asar Budh ( Budh

ki

> > > > > > Aashiyaan,

> > > > > > > Karobaar ya Rishtedaar__ Mutlka budh) par hoga { Rahu

> Khana #

> > > > 10}

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Agar chander 4 hai aur rahu 10 mein to budh par gaaz

kyon

> giri ?

> > > > > > budh ka talluk na to khana 4 se hai aur nahi khana 10

se.

> budh

> > in

> > > > > > dono gharon mein bhi nahi hai to phir budh ki ashiya,

> karobar ya

> > > > > > rishtedar par bura asar kaise padega?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sincerely,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > HS Gill

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , " Umesh

Sharma "

> > > > > > mudit982001@ wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Respected Sir,

> > > > > > > Now there are two Statements in this regards

> > > > > > > 1. page no 386 Moon in 4th house

> > > > > > > Manda asar

> > > > > > > Note #3. Sar Fat jaye, Rahu ka manda asar Budh ( Budh

ki

> > > > > > Aashiyaan,

> > > > > > > Karobaar ya Rishtedaar__ Mutlka budh) par hoga { Rahu

> Khana #

> > > > 10}

> > > > > > > 2. RAHU in house # 10 :

> > > > > > > 1952 urdu ed : Page 680 ; note # 9

> > > > > > > Khyali dimagi dhuan bayas pareshani â€“ dimagh

> > > > > > > phate ya sar kate ya nazar gum ho jave- aur dhan

> > > > > > > daulat par bijli ki tarah manda asar hoga

> > > > > > > [ Chandra khana # 4 ]

> > > > > > > HOW TO DECIDE WHICH STATEMENT IS APPLICABLE?

> > > > > > > Bhai yograj ji ki baat bilkul sahi hey par mere hisab

se

> Grah

> > > > ka

> > > > > > Khana

> > > > > > > main akele bethe hone par honi chahiye. Yahan par to

Rahu

> > > > Chandar

> > > > > > se

> > > > > > > drishat ho raha hey. May be i wrong.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > With

> > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Umesh Sharma

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > #1. Moon in 4th and rahu in 10th

> > > > > > >

, " varun_trvd "

> > > > > > > <varun_trvd@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Respected Umesh ji,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > RAHU in house # 10 :

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 1952 urdu ed : Page 680 ; note # 9

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Khyali dimagi dhuan bayas pareshani â€“ dimagh

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > phate ya sar kate ya nazar gum ho jave- aur dhan

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > daulat par bijli ki tarah manda asar hoga

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > [ Chandra khana # 4 ]

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > While answering to Wandahl ji, the context he

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > had asked me to explain from was Rahu in the

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 10th house. Therefore I had translated the above

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > lines from the book into English for my answer.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > With great respect and regards,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > , " Umesh

> Sharma "

> > > > > > > > mudit982001@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Respected Varun ji,

> > > > > > > > > If Moon in 4th and Rahu in 10th the result is

> > > > > > > > > " Sir Fat Jaye, Rahu ka bura asar Budh ( Budh ki

> > Aashiayan,

> > > > > > Karobaar

> > > > > > > > ya

> > > > > > > > > Rishtedar mutlka Budh ) par hoga. " page no 388

> edi.1952,

> > > > > > chandrma

> > > > > > > > Khana

> > > > > > > > > no. 4, Mandi halat Term no. 3.

> > > > > > > > > Kyonki Rahu jab jab Chandrma se Drishat hoga ya

> mushtrka

> > > > hoga

> > > > > > vah

> > > > > > > Budh

> > > > > > > > > ko khrab karega.

> > > > > > > > > Gustakhi ki Kashma chahta hoon.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Umesh Sharma

> > > > > > > > >

> , " varun_trvd "

> > > > > > > > > varun_trvd@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Respected Wandahl saheb,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Many thanks for your response. It is a

> > > > > > > > > > pleasure reading your views.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > You have asked ;

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the

> > > > > > > > > > 10th it is mentioned that Upay

> > > > > > > > > > of Mars would be beneficial if there

> > > > > > > > > > is also Moon in the 4th house. Do you

> > > > > > > > > > know the reason for this? I think it

> > > > > > > > > > is difficult to grasp.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > As I understand basically it means that

> > > > > > > > > > in case moon is in the 4th while the

> > > > > > > > > > Rahu is in the 10th then it would result in:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Foggy and unrealistic thoughts, brain

> > > > > > > > > > splitting agony, weak eyes, diminished

> > > > > > > > > > wealth.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > If you notice the areas most

> > > > > > > > > > affected are the karaks of the moon and

> > > > > > > > > > the reason being that Rahu will have an

> > > > > > > > > > aspect on the moon.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > If that happens then the Mars upaya

> > > > > > > > > > should be done

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > with respect and regards,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > , " Finn

> > > > Wandahl "

> > > > > > > > > > finn.wandahl@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Mr. Varun Trivedi,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for this very inspirating article on

> Upaya,

> > > > > > which I

> > > > > > > like

> > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > say a few things about. However, I have a

rather

> > > > liberal

> > > > > > > approach

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > Upaya as I consider the Upayas mentioned in

Lal

> Kitab

> > > > to be

> > > > > > > merely

> > > > > > > > > > > suggestions and guidelines meant to stimulate

the

> > > > > > intuition,

> > > > > > > > empathy

> > > > > > > > > > > and discriminative power of the astrologer to

> make him

> > > > > > create

> > > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > own

> > > > > > > > > > > remedies depending upon the circumstances,

time

> and

> > > > place

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > each

> > > > > > > > > > > individual client.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > You have given Saturn in the 7th house as an

> example.

> > > > But

> > > > > > > normally

> > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > would perhaps not be much concerned about

that.

> After

> > > > all

> > > > > > it is

> > > > > > > > Ucha

> > > > > > > > > > > (exalted) and even if the 1st house was empty

> thus

> > > > making

> > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > Saturn

> > > > > > > > > > > sleeping or dormant it would not cause too

much

> alarm

> > > > > > except

> > > > > > > > perhaps

> > > > > > > > > > > if Ketu was ahead of Saturn thereby turning it

> > > > malefic. In

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > case

> > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > might even consider Ketu the problem, since

Ketu

> is

> > > > what

> > > > > > made

> > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > Saturn Malefic.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Then you say something very interesting about

> Rahu in

> > > > > > kendras

> > > > > > > > where

> > > > > > > > > > > the planet that gets exalted in the house

> occupied by

> > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > should

> > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > considered for Upay. However, regarding Rahu

in

> the

> > > > first,

> > > > > > it is

> > > > > > > > > > > alreading said in Lal Kitab that the Sun would

be

> > > > > > eclipsed, not

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > Sun itself but the house occupied by the Sun.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > In annual charts, however, I have often had the

> > > > > > experience, that

> > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > really the Sun itself that gets eclipsed and

> destroyed

> > > > > > when Rahu

> > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > the first rather than the house occupied by

the

> Sun.

> > > > Rahu

> > > > > > coming

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > the 1st house can really destroy the rank and

> position

> > > > of a

> > > > > > > > person.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > However, the problem with Rahu in the 1st in

the

> > > > context

> > > > > > of Upay

> > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > that the Sun is both significator of the first

> house

> > > > and

> > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > exalted

> > > > > > > > > > > there at the same time, and it make little

> difference

> > > > if we

> > > > > > > > involve

> > > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > in Upay for one reason or the other as long as

> it is

> > > > the

> > > > > > same

> > > > > > > > > planet.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the 10th it

is

> > > > mentioned

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > Upay

> > > > > > > > > > > of Mars would be beneficial if there is also

> Moon in

> > > > the

> > > > > > 4th

> > > > > > > > house.

> > > > > > > > > Do

> > > > > > > > > > > you know the reason for this? I think it is

> difficult

> > > > to

> > > > > > grasp.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Then if Rahu was in the 7th house, Saturn

would

> hardly

> > > > be

> > > > > > my

> > > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > > choice for remedy even though it is exalted

> there. I

> > > > would

> > > > > > no

> > > > > > > > doubt

> > > > > > > > > > > consider Venus first and perhaps also Mercury

if

> > > > daughters

> > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > sisters

> > > > > > > > > > > were involved.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Rahu in the 4th by itself should not be a

> problem as

> > > > it has

> > > > > > > takes

> > > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > oath not to cause evil when alone or with the

> Moon in

> > > > 4th

> > > > > > house.

> > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > don't know if remedy of Jupiter could be used

in

> case

> > > > of

> > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > being

> > > > > > > > > > > malefic in the 4th. I think Moon or perhaps

> Saturn

> > > > would

> > > > > > be my

> > > > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > > choice in such a case.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Best regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > Finn Wandahl

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > , " varun_trvd "

> > > > > > > > > > > varun_trvd@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Respected members,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Devising the form of upaya:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Lal Kitab 1952 urdu ed page 620 last lines :

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn in the 7th house

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Khand se bharkar bansari bahar veerane mein

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > dabana mubarik, basharte ki Shanishchar soya

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > na ho; agar soya ho to shahad ke bartan ka

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > upaya madadgar hoga

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > At the first reading it would appear that if

> the

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn is not dormant [ soya hua] then bury

in

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > a barren place a flute filled with desi

sugar [

> > > > khand ] ;

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > if the Saturn is dormant then bury a pot

> filled with

> > > > > > honey.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > But it is not so. That is not the correct

> > > > understanding

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > So much so a well known Lal Kitab scholar

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > made a slip when he wrote in his book for

> Saturn in

> > > > 7th:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > kisi bartan ko shahad se bharkar bahar

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > dabane ka upaya sahayak hoga

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > The correct upaya is to establish at home in

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > the south west corner a pot filled with

honey.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Thus the correct upaya is establishing and

not

> > > > burying.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > This has already been discussed here in the

> group.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Those who wish to read the logic behind

> establishing

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > can go to the archives and read.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I began by giving this example to show how

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > difficult it is to devise an upaya and more

so

> to

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > decide the form of upaya

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > In most cases, the Lal Kitab does not

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > explain the form of upaya to be done. It just

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > suggests that the upaya for such-n-such

planet

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > be done e.g. mangal ka upaya madadgar hoga.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > This statement by itself is not very

helpful.

> It is

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > the Lalkitabist who has to decide the form

of

> this

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > mangal ka upaya. He has to decide whether the

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > karaks of mangal are to be immersed in

flowing

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > water, or gifted at a temple or buried and

so

> on.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > The upaya devised has to be correct and

> effective.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > This needs a very good understanding of the

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > system and a very wide experience.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Let me explain this with an example :

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > For Rahu placed in the Kendra houses, it is

> advised

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > that the upaya should be done of the planet

> which

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > gets exalted in that house.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, if the Rahu is placed in the 1st

> house

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > and has been identified as malefic then

surya

> ka

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > upaya madadgar hoga. Now what should be the

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > form of this surya ka upaya. Should we

immerse

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks of the Sun in flowing water, or

> should

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > we bury the karaks of the sun, or should we

> offer

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks of the sun at a temple, or any

other

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > form of upaya to be devised.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Thankfully in this case it has been

indicated

> that

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks of the Sun should be gifted at a

> temple.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > This is done to strengthen the Sun so that he

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > could withstand the eclipsing ability of

Rahu.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > But for the same Rahu in the 10th house the

> book

> > > > says:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > khali mandir se rahu sota, tez swabhav manda

ho

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > mitra grah par keechad deta, upaya mangal ka

> uttam

> > ho

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Now in this case no indication has been

given

> as to

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > what will be the form of mangal ka upaya,

like

> the

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > in the case of Rahu in the 1st house where

> gifting

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > karaks of Sun has been indicated. Will

gifting

> the

> > > > karaks

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > of mangal at any temple be a correct upaya?

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > If not, then what should be the form of the

> upaya ?

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > A rahu placed in the 10th can not do any

> damage to

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn but it will definitely harm the

> > significations

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > of the 10th house, be it a job or name or

fame.

> > > > > > Therefore,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > if the rahu is adjudged as malefic, then an

> upaya

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > will become necessary. So what would be the

> form

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > of the upaya. We know that mangal will help,

> but in

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > what form? It is the Lalkitabist who has to

> decide

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > form of the upaya.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Since the book says:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu ka manda asar teve wale par nahi hoga :

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > jab mangal nek ho

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > In this case the Rahu has to be brought under

> > control

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > such that it is not able to damage the

> > > > significations of

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > the 10th house. Since Mangal shubh alone can

> control

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu therefore the karak of mangal shubh has

> to be

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > established at home, keep at home a little

> honey

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > in a silver dibbi towards the west. This

upaya

> will

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > keep the belligerent Rahu under control.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Now you know the difference. In one case it

is

> > > > gifting

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks which would be an effective upaya

> where

> > as

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > in the next case it is establishing a karak

> would be

> > > > an

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > effective upaya.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore devising upaya is a science which a

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Lalkitabist has to learn. It comes with time

> and

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > experience. That is why upaya suggested

through

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > ready reckoners do not work.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

-- Dr. Shiv Dev Kalsi,Jyotish Rishi (AIFAS)Consultant (Vedic Astrology)

June 25, 2008

Very respected Kalsi ji,

We have publically declared through the preface of this group that

we do not consider the Lal Kitab as different from traditional vedic

astrology. To us the Lal Kitab is a paddhati of traditional vedic

astrology, it is a sub system of traditional vedic astrology. We do

not accept the Lal Kitab as a different system.

Therefore we do not accept a term or a statement like ' mixing Lal

Kitab with vedic astrology'

Please go to page # 31 of 1952 urdu ed and see the table given for

friends and enemies of the planets.

Under the column uska dushman grah for moon, no planet is mentioned as an enemy.

It says 'ketu se grahan rahu se madhyam'

Respect and naman,

Varun Trivedi

, " Shivdev Kalsi "

<shivdev.kalsi wrote:

>

> Dear Varun Ji,

> You are mixing traditional or so termed Vedic Astrology rules in

Lalkitab.

> May you elaborate little on you line

> " The moon doesn't consider any planet as its enemy " .

> I don't think these line exists in Lalkitab

> Yours

> Shiv Dev Kalsi

> On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 11:32 AM, varun_trvd <varun_trvd

wrote:

>

> > Aadarneeya Umesh ji,

> >

> > The moon doesn't consider any planet as its enemy. But Mercury

and

> > Venus both consider the moon as their enemy. Since both the

planets

> > consider moon as the enemy, they are likely to adversely affect

the

> > moon.

> >

> > With regards,

> >

> > Varun Trivedi

> >

> > <%

40>,

> > " Umesh Sharma "

> > <mudit982001@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Respected Varun ji,

> > > You Say,

> > > For sun + mars the book says :

> > > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho

> > > This is simple to explain, have a look at what

> > > constitutes these two planets.

> > > Mars = sun + mercury

> > > Sun = mercury + venus

> > > If you notice this combination is all mercury

> > > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore

> > > it is natural that this combination will not be

> > > conducive for moon.

> > > MY QUESTION IS

> > > 1.HAS THE VENUS IS HAVING ENIMITY WITH MOON?

> > > 2.HAS THE MOON IS HAVING ENEMITY WITH MERCURY?

> > > REGARDS AND WITH ALL RESPECT

> > > UMESH SHARMA

> > >

> > > -- In <%

40>,

> > " varun_trvd "

> > > <varun_trvd@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Respected Umesh ji,

> > > >

> > > > My views on the issues you have raised.

> > > >

> > > > [ 1 ] Lal Kitab varshphal sarini :

> > > >

> > > > In traditional vedic Jyotish there are quite a few

> > > >

> > > > methods prevalent for working out the Varshphal

> > > >

> > > > kundali. The Lal Kitab has suggested yet another

> > > >

> > > > method. Therefore there is nothing unusual or

> > > >

> > > > surprising about the method.

> > > >

> > > > The major question is what could have been the

> > > >

> > > > logic or the arithmetic applied to generate the table.

> > > >

> > > > We know that unless there was some formula the

> > > >

> > > > table could not have been generated. We do not

> > > >

> > > > know the formula as yet. But sure one day the

> > > >

> > > > formula would be known. Till such time the formula

> > > >

> > > > used is found out, let us not treat the sarini as some

> > > >

> > > > thing super natural. There is nothing mystical or

> > > >

> > > > super natural about it. It is an ordinary table; there are

> > > >

> > > > hundreds of such tables used in the traditional astrology

> > > >

> > > > [ 2 ] For sun + mars the book says :

> > > >

> > > > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho

> > > >

> > > > This is simple to explain, have a look at what

> > > >

> > > > constitutes these two planets.

> > > >

> > > > Mars = sun + mercury

> > > >

> > > > Sun = mercury + venus

> > > >

> > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury

> > > >

> > > > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore

> > > >

> > > > it is natural that this combination will not be

> > > >

> > > > conducive for moon.

> > > >

> > > > [ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says :

> > > >

> > > > Ketu mande ho madad guru ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho

> > > >

> > > > Here Jupiter is used to strengthen ketu. There is

> > > >

> > > > nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

> > > >

> > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

> > > >

> > > > strengthening another friendly planet.

> > > >

> > > > With great respect and regards,

> > > >

> > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > >

> > > > --- In

<%

40>,

> > " Umesh Sharma "

> > > > <mudit982001@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Respected Gill j]==[,

> > > > >

> > > > > There are so many other Terms which we are not understand.

As

> > > example

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. What are the logic of Varshaphal Sarani?

> > > > >

> > > > > 2. Why Moon is week or Manda when Sun and Mars are combind?

> > > > >

> > > > > 3. When Ketu in 3rd than why we do upay of Jupiter?

> > > > >

> > > > > So many other questions.

> > > > >

> > > > > because, i am a practioner astrologer and from last 15 yrs

of

> > my

> > > > > astrological life i use these terms as it is and get

success.

> > So

> > > i

> > > > have

> > > > > no doubt. I think one bigger difference in you and me that

you

> > > are not

> > > > a

> > > > > professional astrologer but I am. I think Astrology is your

> > > Hobby but

> > > > > in my case it is my " Bread & Butter " so I have " PURAN

SHARDHA "

> > on

> > > this

> > > > > book. I Discuss and understand the theory of Lal-Kitab from

> > other

> > > > > scholars,. As You, Sh. Vareun Trivedi ji, Sh. Bhooshan

Priya

> > > ji,, Sh.

> > > > > Kulbeer ji, Sh. Yograj Prabhakar ji, Sh. Lalkitabi ji, Sh.

> > > > > L.K.Vashishath ji, Late Sh. B.R.Gupta ( My Father-in-Law).

No

> > > doubt,

> > > > > you are doing the good job in favour of Lal-kitab, keep it

up.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards

> > > > >

> > > > > Umesh Sharma

> > > > >

> > > > > --- In

<%

40>,

> > " gill_hs2005 "

> > > > > gill_hs2005@ wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sir umesh ji,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Agar budh itna taqatvar hai ki dono rahu aur ketu ko apne

> > > dayre mein

> > > > > > bandh kar rakh sakta hai, to rahu manda hone par budh par

> > > parbhav

> > > > > > kaise padega? Jo taqat dono ko bandh kar rakh sakti hai

vah

> > > taqat

> > > > > > rahu aur ketu dono se badi huyee ki nahi. Apki baat se

yeh

> > > samajh

> > > > > > mein aya ki rahu aur ketu budh ke adheen hain na ki budh

in

> > > dono ke.

> > > > > > Jab budh rahu ketu ke adheen hi nahin hai to rahu ya

ketu ke

> > > mande

> > > > > > hone ka asar budh par kaise ho sakta hai, yeh baat samajh

> > mein

> > > nahi

> > > > > > ayee.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sincerely,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > HS Gill

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --- In

<%

40>,

> > " Umesh Sharma "

> > > > > > mudit982001@ wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Respected Gill ji,

> > > > > > > " Rahu-Ketu jo Pap gine hain, Grah sab hi ko ghumate

hain ,

> > > > > > > Guru Akela Do ko chalave, ghumtey par vo budh main

hain "

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Umesh Sharma

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --- In

<%

40>,

> > " gill_hs2005 "

> > > > > > > <gill_hs2005@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Sir Umesh Sharma ji,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 1. page no 386 Moon in 4th house

> > > > > > > > > Manda asar

> > > > > > > > > Note #3. Sar Fat jaye, Rahu ka manda asar Budh (

Budh

> > ki

> > > > > > > > Aashiyaan,

> > > > > > > > > Karobaar ya Rishtedaar__ Mutlka budh) par hoga {

Rahu

> > > Khana #

> > > > > > 10}

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Agar chander 4 hai aur rahu 10 mein to budh par gaaz

> > kyon

> > > giri ?

> > > > > > > > budh ka talluk na to khana 4 se hai aur nahi khana 10

> > se.

> > > budh

> > > > in

> > > > > > > > dono gharon mein bhi nahi hai to phir budh ki ashiya,

> > > karobar ya

> > > > > > > > rishtedar par bura asar kaise padega?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Sincerely,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > HS Gill

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --- In

<%

40>,

> > " Umesh

> > Sharma "

> > > > > > > > mudit982001@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Respected Sir,

> > > > > > > > > Now there are two Statements in this regards

> > > > > > > > > 1. page no 386 Moon in 4th house

> > > > > > > > > Manda asar

> > > > > > > > > Note #3. Sar Fat jaye, Rahu ka manda asar Budh (

Budh

> > ki

> > > > > > > > Aashiyaan,

> > > > > > > > > Karobaar ya Rishtedaar__ Mutlka budh) par hoga {

Rahu

> > > Khana #

> > > > > > 10}

> > > > > > > > > 2. RAHU in house # 10 :

> > > > > > > > > 1952 urdu ed : Page 680 ; note # 9

> > > > > > > > > Khyali dimagi dhuan bayas pareshani â€ " dimagh

> > > > > > > > > phate ya sar kate ya nazar gum ho jave- aur dhan

> > > > > > > > > daulat par bijli ki tarah manda asar hoga

> > > > > > > > > [ Chandra khana # 4 ]

> > > > > > > > > HOW TO DECIDE WHICH STATEMENT IS APPLICABLE?

> > > > > > > > > Bhai yograj ji ki baat bilkul sahi hey par mere

hisab

> > se

> > > Grah

> > > > > > ka

> > > > > > > > Khana

> > > > > > > > > main akele bethe hone par honi chahiye. Yahan par

to

> > Rahu

> > > > > > Chandar

> > > > > > > > se

> > > > > > > > > drishat ho raha hey. May be i wrong.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > With

> > > > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Umesh Sharma

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > #1. Moon in 4th and rahu in 10th

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --- In

> > <%

40>,

> > " varun_trvd "

> > > > > > > > > <varun_trvd@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Respected Umesh ji,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > RAHU in house # 10 :

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 1952 urdu ed : Page 680 ; note # 9

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Khyali dimagi dhuan bayas pareshani â€ " dimagh

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > phate ya sar kate ya nazar gum ho jave- aur dhan

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > daulat par bijli ki tarah manda asar hoga

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > [ Chandra khana # 4 ]

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > While answering to Wandahl ji, the context he

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > had asked me to explain from was Rahu in the

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 10th house. Therefore I had translated the above

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > lines from the book into English for my answer.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > With great respect and regards,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > --- In

<%

40>,

> > " Umesh

> > > Sharma "

> > > > > > > > > > mudit982001@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Respected Varun ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > If Moon in 4th and Rahu in 10th the result is

> > > > > > > > > > > " Sir Fat Jaye, Rahu ka bura asar Budh ( Budh

ki

> > > > Aashiayan,

> > > > > > > > Karobaar

> > > > > > > > > > ya

> > > > > > > > > > > Rishtedar mutlka Budh ) par hoga. " page no 388

> > > edi.1952,

> > > > > > > > chandrma

> > > > > > > > > > Khana

> > > > > > > > > > > no. 4, Mandi halat Term no. 3.

> > > > > > > > > > > Kyonki Rahu jab jab Chandrma se Drishat hoga ya

> > > mushtrka

> > > > > > hoga

> > > > > > > > vah

> > > > > > > > > Budh

> > > > > > > > > > > ko khrab karega.

> > > > > > > > > > > Gustakhi ki Kashma chahta hoon.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Umesh Sharma

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > <%

40>,

> > " varun_trvd "

> > > > > > > > > > > varun_trvd@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Wandahl saheb,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks for your response. It is a

> > > > > > > > > > > > pleasure reading your views.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > You have asked ;

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the

> > > > > > > > > > > > 10th it is mentioned that Upay

> > > > > > > > > > > > of Mars would be beneficial if there

> > > > > > > > > > > > is also Moon in the 4th house. Do you

> > > > > > > > > > > > know the reason for this? I think it

> > > > > > > > > > > > is difficult to grasp.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > As I understand basically it means that

> > > > > > > > > > > > in case moon is in the 4th while the

> > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is in the 10th then it would result in:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Foggy and unrealistic thoughts, brain

> > > > > > > > > > > > splitting agony, weak eyes, diminished

> > > > > > > > > > > > wealth.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > If you notice the areas most

> > > > > > > > > > > > affected are the karaks of the moon and

> > > > > > > > > > > > the reason being that Rahu will have an

> > > > > > > > > > > > aspect on the moon.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > If that happens then the Mars upaya

> > > > > > > > > > > > should be done

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > with respect and regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

<%

40>,

> > " Finn

> > > > > > Wandahl "

> > > > > > > > > > > > finn.wandahl@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Mr. Varun Trivedi,

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for this very inspirating

article on

> > > Upaya,

> > > > > > > > which I

> > > > > > > > > like

> > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > say a few things about. However, I have a

> > rather

> > > > > > liberal

> > > > > > > > > approach

> > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Upaya as I consider the Upayas mentioned in

> > Lal

> > > Kitab

> > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > > merely

> > > > > > > > > > > > > suggestions and guidelines meant to

stimulate

> > the

> > > > > > > > intuition,

> > > > > > > > > > empathy

> > > > > > > > > > > > > and discriminative power of the astrologer

to

> > > make him

> > > > > > > > create

> > > > > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > > > own

> > > > > > > > > > > > > remedies depending upon the circumstances,

> > time

> > > and

> > > > > > place

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > each

> > > > > > > > > > > > > individual client.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > You have given Saturn in the 7th house as

an

> > > example.

> > > > > > But

> > > > > > > > > normally

> > > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > would perhaps not be much concerned about

> > that.

> > > After

> > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > it is

> > > > > > > > > > Ucha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > (exalted) and even if the 1st house was

empty

> > > thus

> > > > > > making

> > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > Saturn

> > > > > > > > > > > > > sleeping or dormant it would not cause too

> > much

> > > alarm

> > > > > > > > except

> > > > > > > > > > perhaps

> > > > > > > > > > > > > if Ketu was ahead of Saturn thereby

turning it

> > > > > > malefic. In

> > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > case

> > > > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > might even consider Ketu the problem, since

> > Ketu

> > > is

> > > > > > what

> > > > > > > > made

> > > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn Malefic.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Then you say something very interesting

about

> > > Rahu in

> > > > > > > > kendras

> > > > > > > > > > where

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the planet that gets exalted in the house

> > > occupied by

> > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > should

> > > > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > considered for Upay. However, regarding

Rahu

> > in

> > > the

> > > > > > first,

> > > > > > > > it is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > alreading said in Lal Kitab that the Sun

would

> > be

> > > > > > > > eclipsed, not

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun itself but the house occupied by the

Sun.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > In annual charts, however, I have often

had the

> > > > > > > > experience, that

> > > > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > really the Sun itself that gets eclipsed

and

> > > destroyed

> > > > > > > > when Rahu

> > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the first rather than the house occupied by

> > the

> > > Sun.

> > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > coming

> > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the 1st house can really destroy the rank

and

> > > position

> > > > > > of a

> > > > > > > > > > person.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > However, the problem with Rahu in the 1st

in

> > the

> > > > > > context

> > > > > > > > of Upay

> > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > that the Sun is both significator of the

first

> > > house

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > > > exalted

> > > > > > > > > > > > > there at the same time, and it make little

> > > difference

> > > > > > if we

> > > > > > > > > > involve

> > > > > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > in Upay for one reason or the other as

long as

> > > it is

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > same

> > > > > > > > > > > planet.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the 10th

it

> > is

> > > > > > mentioned

> > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > Upay

> > > > > > > > > > > > > of Mars would be beneficial if there is

also

> > > Moon in

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > 4th

> > > > > > > > > > house.

> > > > > > > > > > > Do

> > > > > > > > > > > > > you know the reason for this? I think it is

> > > difficult

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > grasp.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Then if Rahu was in the 7th house, Saturn

> > would

> > > hardly

> > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > > > > choice for remedy even though it is exalted

> > > there. I

> > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > no

> > > > > > > > > > doubt

> > > > > > > > > > > > > consider Venus first and perhaps also

Mercury

> > if

> > > > > > daughters

> > > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > > sisters

> > > > > > > > > > > > > were involved.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu in the 4th by itself should not be a

> > > problem as

> > > > > > it has

> > > > > > > > > takes

> > > > > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > oath not to cause evil when alone or with

the

> > > Moon in

> > > > > > 4th

> > > > > > > > house.

> > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > don't know if remedy of Jupiter could be

used

> > in

> > > case

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > > being

> > > > > > > > > > > > > malefic in the 4th. I think Moon or perhaps

> > > Saturn

> > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > be my

> > > > > > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > > > > choice in such a case.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Finn Wandahl

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > > > <%

40>,

> > " varun_trvd "

> > > > > > > > > > > > > varun_trvd@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected members,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Devising the form of upaya:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lal Kitab 1952 urdu ed page 620 last

lines :

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn in the 7th house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Khand se bharkar bansari bahar veerane

mein

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > dabana mubarik, basharte ki Shanishchar

soya

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > na ho; agar soya ho to shahad ke bartan

ka

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > upaya madadgar hoga

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > At the first reading it would appear

that if

> > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn is not dormant [ soya hua] then

bury

> > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > a barren place a flute filled with desi

> > sugar [

> > > > > > khand ] ;

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > if the Saturn is dormant then bury a pot

> > > filled with

> > > > > > > > honey.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > But it is not so. That is not the correct

> > > > > > understanding

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > So much so a well known Lal Kitab scholar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > made a slip when he wrote in his book for

> > > Saturn in

> > > > > > 7th:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > kisi bartan ko shahad se bharkar bahar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > dabane ka upaya sahayak hoga

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct upaya is to establish at

home in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the south west corner a pot filled with

> > honey.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thus the correct upaya is establishing

and

> > not

> > > > > > burying.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > This has already been discussed here in

the

> > > group.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those who wish to read the logic behind

> > > establishing

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > can go to the archives and read.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I began by giving this example to show

how

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > difficult it is to devise an upaya and

more

> > so

> > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > decide the form of upaya

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > In most cases, the Lal Kitab does not

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > explain the form of upaya to be done. It

just

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > suggests that the upaya for such-n-such

> > planet

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > be done e.g. mangal ka upaya madadgar

hoga.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > This statement by itself is not very

> > helpful.

> > > It is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the Lalkitabist who has to decide the

form

> > of

> > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > mangal ka upaya. He has to decide

whether the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > karaks of mangal are to be immersed in

> > flowing

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > water, or gifted at a temple or buried

and

> > so

> > > on.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The upaya devised has to be correct and

> > > effective.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > This needs a very good understanding of

the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > system and a very wide experience.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me explain this with an example :

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > For Rahu placed in the Kendra houses, it

is

> > > advised

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > that the upaya should be done of the

planet

> > > which

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > gets exalted in that house.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, if the Rahu is placed in the

1st

> > > house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and has been identified as malefic then

> > surya

> > > ka

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > upaya madadgar hoga. Now what should be

the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > form of this surya ka upaya. Should we

> > immerse

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks of the Sun in flowing water,

or

> > > should

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > we bury the karaks of the sun, or should

we

> > > offer

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks of the sun at a temple, or any

> > other

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > form of upaya to be devised.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thankfully in this case it has been

> > indicated

> > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks of the Sun should be gifted

at a

> > > temple.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is done to strengthen the Sun so

that he

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > could withstand the eclipsing ability of

> > Rahu.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > But for the same Rahu in the 10th house

the

> > > book

> > > > > > says:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > khali mandir se rahu sota, tez swabhav

manda

> > ho

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > mitra grah par keechad deta, upaya

mangal ka

> > > uttam

> > > > ho

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now in this case no indication has been

> > given

> > > as to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > what will be the form of mangal ka upaya,

> > like

> > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the case of Rahu in the 1st house

where

> > > gifting

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > karaks of Sun has been indicated. Will

> > gifting

> > > the

> > > > > > karaks

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of mangal at any temple be a correct

upaya?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If not, then what should be the form of

the

> > > upaya ?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > A rahu placed in the 10th can not do any

> > > damage to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn but it will definitely harm the

> > > > significations

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of the 10th house, be it a job or name or

> > fame.

> > > > > > > > Therefore,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > if the rahu is adjudged as malefic, then

an

> > > upaya

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > will become necessary. So what would be

the

> > > form

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of the upaya. We know that mangal will

help,

> > > but in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > what form? It is the Lalkitabist who has

to

> > > decide

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > form of the upaya.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the book says:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu ka manda asar teve wale par nahi

hoga :

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > jab mangal nek ho

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this case the Rahu has to be brought

under

> > > > control

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > such that it is not able to damage the

> > > > > > significations of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 10th house. Since Mangal shubh alone

can

> > > control

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu therefore the karak of mangal shubh

has

> > > to be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > established at home, keep at home a

little

> > > honey

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > in a silver dibbi towards the west. This

> > upaya

> > > will

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > keep the belligerent Rahu under control.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now you know the difference. In one case

it

> > is

> > > > > > gifting

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks which would be an effective

upaya

> > > where

> > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the next case it is establishing a

karak

> > > would be

> > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > effective upaya.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore devising upaya is a science

which a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lalkitabist has to learn. It comes with

time

> > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > experience. That is why upaya suggested

> > through

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ready reckoners do not work.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

> --

> Dr. Shiv Dev Kalsi,

> Jyotish Rishi (AIFAS)

> Consultant (Vedic Astrology)

>

June 25, 2008

Dear Varun Ji,It is really very astonishing.I could not expect this type of mis-interpretion from you.YoursShiv Dev Kalsi

On 6/25/08, varun_trvd <varun_trvd wrote:

Very respected Kalsi ji,

We have publically declared through the preface of this group that

we do not consider the Lal Kitab as different from traditional vedic

astrology. To us the Lal Kitab is a paddhati of traditional vedic

astrology, it is a sub system of traditional vedic astrology. We do

not accept the Lal Kitab as a different system.

Therefore we do not accept a term or a statement like ' mixing Lal

Kitab with vedic astrology'

Please go to page # 31 of 1952 urdu ed and see the table given for

friends and enemies of the planets.

Under the column uska dushman grah for moon, no planet is mentioned as an enemy. It says 'ketu se grahan rahu se madhyam'

Respect and naman,

Varun Trivedi

, " Shivdev Kalsi "

<shivdev.kalsi wrote:

>

> Dear Varun Ji,

> You are mixing traditional or so termed Vedic Astrology rules in

Lalkitab.

> May you elaborate little on you line

> " The moon doesn't consider any planet as its enemy " .

> I don't think these line exists in Lalkitab

> Yours

> Shiv Dev Kalsi

> On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 11:32 AM, varun_trvd <varun_trvd

wrote:

>

> > Aadarneeya Umesh ji,

> >

> > The moon doesn't consider any planet as its enemy. But Mercury

and

> > Venus both consider the moon as their enemy. Since both the

planets

> > consider moon as the enemy, they are likely to adversely affect

the

> > moon.

> >

> > With regards,

> >

> > Varun Trivedi

> >

> > <%

40>,

> > " Umesh Sharma "

> > <mudit982001@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Respected Varun ji,

> > > You Say,

> > > For sun + mars the book says :

> > > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho

> > > This is simple to explain, have a look at what

> > > constitutes these two planets.

> > > Mars = sun + mercury

> > > Sun = mercury + venus

> > > If you notice this combination is all mercury

> > > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore

> > > it is natural that this combination will not be

> > > conducive for moon.

> > > MY QUESTION IS

> > > 1.HAS THE VENUS IS HAVING ENIMITY WITH MOON?

> > > 2.HAS THE MOON IS HAVING ENEMITY WITH MERCURY?

> > > REGARDS AND WITH ALL RESPECT

> > > UMESH SHARMA

> > >

> > > -- In <%

40>,

> > " varun_trvd "

> > > <varun_trvd@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Respected Umesh ji,

> > > >

> > > > My views on the issues you have raised.

> > > >

> > > > [ 1 ] Lal Kitab varshphal sarini :

> > > >

> > > > In traditional vedic Jyotish there are quite a few

> > > >

> > > > methods prevalent for working out the Varshphal

> > > >

> > > > kundali. The Lal Kitab has suggested yet another

> > > >

> > > > method. Therefore there is nothing unusual or

> > > >

> > > > surprising about the method.

> > > >

> > > > The major question is what could have been the

> > > >

> > > > logic or the arithmetic applied to generate the table.

> > > >

> > > > We know that unless there was some formula the

> > > >

> > > > table could not have been generated. We do not

> > > >

> > > > know the formula as yet. But sure one day the

> > > >

> > > > formula would be known. Till such time the formula

> > > >

> > > > used is found out, let us not treat the sarini as some

> > > >

> > > > thing super natural. There is nothing mystical or

> > > >

> > > > super natural about it. It is an ordinary table; there are

> > > >

> > > > hundreds of such tables used in the traditional astrology

> > > >

> > > > [ 2 ] For sun + mars the book says :

> > > >

> > > > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho

> > > >

> > > > This is simple to explain, have a look at what

> > > >

> > > > constitutes these two planets.

> > > >

> > > > Mars = sun + mercury

> > > >

> > > > Sun = mercury + venus

> > > >

> > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury

> > > >

> > > > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore

> > > >

> > > > it is natural that this combination will not be

> > > >

> > > > conducive for moon.

> > > >

> > > > [ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says :

> > > >

> > > > Ketu mande ho madad guru ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho

> > > >

> > > > Here Jupiter is used to strengthen ketu. There is

> > > >

> > > > nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

> > > >

> > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

> > > >

> > > > strengthening another friendly planet.

> > > >

> > > > With great respect and regards,

> > > >

> > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > >

<%

40>,

> > " Umesh Sharma "

> > > > <mudit982001@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Respected Gill j]==[,

> > > > >

> > > > > There are so many other Terms which we are not understand.

As

> > > example

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. What are the logic of Varshaphal Sarani?

> > > > >

> > > > > 2. Why Moon is week or Manda when Sun and Mars are combind?

> > > > >

> > > > > 3. When Ketu in 3rd than why we do upay of Jupiter?

> > > > >

> > > > > So many other questions.

> > > > >

> > > > > because, i am a practioner astrologer and from last 15 yrs

of

> > my

> > > > > astrological life i use these terms as it is and get

success.

> > So

> > > i

> > > > have

> > > > > no doubt. I think one bigger difference in you and me that

you

> > > are not

> > > > a

> > > > > professional astrologer but I am. I think Astrology is your

> > > Hobby but

> > > > > in my case it is my " Bread & Butter " so I have " PURAN

SHARDHA "

> > on

> > > this

> > > > > book. I Discuss and understand the theory of Lal-Kitab from

> > other

> > > > > scholars,. As You, Sh. Vareun Trivedi ji, Sh. Bhooshan

Priya

> > > ji,, Sh.

> > > > > Kulbeer ji, Sh. Yograj Prabhakar ji, Sh. Lalkitabi ji, Sh.

> > > > > L.K.Vashishath ji, Late Sh. B.R.Gupta ( My Father-in-Law).

No

> > > doubt,

> > > > > you are doing the good job in favour of Lal-kitab, keep it

up.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards

> > > > >

> > > > > Umesh Sharma

> > > > >

<%

40>,

> > " gill_hs2005 "

> > > > > gill_hs2005@ wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sir umesh ji,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Agar budh itna taqatvar hai ki dono rahu aur ketu ko apne

> > > dayre mein

> > > > > > bandh kar rakh sakta hai, to rahu manda hone par budh par

> > > parbhav

> > > > > > kaise padega? Jo taqat dono ko bandh kar rakh sakti hai

vah

> > > taqat

> > > > > > rahu aur ketu dono se badi huyee ki nahi. Apki baat se

yeh

> > > samajh

> > > > > > mein aya ki rahu aur ketu budh ke adheen hain na ki budh

in

> > > dono ke.

> > > > > > Jab budh rahu ketu ke adheen hi nahin hai to rahu ya

ketu ke

> > > mande

> > > > > > hone ka asar budh par kaise ho sakta hai, yeh baat samajh

> > mein

> > > nahi

> > > > > > ayee.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sincerely,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > HS Gill

> > > > > >

<%

40>,

> > " Umesh Sharma "

> > > > > > mudit982001@ wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Respected Gill ji,

> > > > > > > " Rahu-Ketu jo Pap gine hain, Grah sab hi ko ghumate

hain ,

> > > > > > > Guru Akela Do ko chalave, ghumtey par vo budh main

hain "

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Umesh Sharma

> > > > > > >

<%

40>,

> > " gill_hs2005 "

> > > > > > > <gill_hs2005@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Sir Umesh Sharma ji,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 1. page no 386 Moon in 4th house

> > > > > > > > > Manda asar

> > > > > > > > > Note #3. Sar Fat jaye, Rahu ka manda asar Budh (

Budh

> > ki

> > > > > > > > Aashiyaan,

> > > > > > > > > Karobaar ya Rishtedaar__ Mutlka budh) par hoga {

Rahu

> > > Khana #

> > > > > > 10}

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Agar chander 4 hai aur rahu 10 mein to budh par gaaz

> > kyon

> > > giri ?

> > > > > > > > budh ka talluk na to khana 4 se hai aur nahi khana 10

> > se.

> > > budh

> > > > in

> > > > > > > > dono gharon mein bhi nahi hai to phir budh ki ashiya,

> > > karobar ya

> > > > > > > > rishtedar par bura asar kaise padega?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Sincerely,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > HS Gill

> > > > > > > >

<%

40>,

> > " Umesh

> > Sharma "

> > > > > > > > mudit982001@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Respected Sir,

> > > > > > > > > Now there are two Statements in this regards

> > > > > > > > > 1. page no 386 Moon in 4th house

> > > > > > > > > Manda asar

> > > > > > > > > Note #3. Sar Fat jaye, Rahu ka manda asar Budh (

Budh

> > ki

> > > > > > > > Aashiyaan,

> > > > > > > > > Karobaar ya Rishtedaar__ Mutlka budh) par hoga {

Rahu

> > > Khana #

> > > > > > 10}

> > > > > > > > > 2. RAHU in house # 10 :

> > > > > > > > > 1952 urdu ed : Page 680 ; note # 9

> > > > > > > > > Khyali dimagi dhuan bayas pareshani Ã¢â‚¬ " dimagh

> > > > > > > > > phate ya sar kate ya nazar gum ho jave- aur dhan

> > > > > > > > > daulat par bijli ki tarah manda asar hoga

> > > > > > > > > [ Chandra khana # 4 ]

> > > > > > > > > HOW TO DECIDE WHICH STATEMENT IS APPLICABLE?

> > > > > > > > > Bhai yograj ji ki baat bilkul sahi hey par mere

hisab

> > se

> > > Grah

> > > > > > ka

> > > > > > > > Khana

> > > > > > > > > main akele bethe hone par honi chahiye. Yahan par

to

> > Rahu

> > > > > > Chandar

> > > > > > > > se

> > > > > > > > > drishat ho raha hey. May be i wrong.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > With

> > > > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Umesh Sharma

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > #1. Moon in 4th and rahu in 10th

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --- In

> > <%

40>,

> > " varun_trvd "

> > > > > > > > > <varun_trvd@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Respected Umesh ji,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > RAHU in house # 10 :

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 1952 urdu ed : Page 680 ; note # 9

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Khyali dimagi dhuan bayas pareshani Ã¢â‚¬ " dimagh

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > phate ya sar kate ya nazar gum ho jave- aur dhan

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > daulat par bijli ki tarah manda asar hoga

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > [ Chandra khana # 4 ]

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > While answering to Wandahl ji, the context he

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > had asked me to explain from was Rahu in the

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 10th house. Therefore I had translated the above

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > lines from the book into English for my answer.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > With great respect and regards,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > > > > > >

<%

40>,

> > " Umesh

> > > Sharma "

> > > > > > > > > > mudit982001@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Respected Varun ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > If Moon in 4th and Rahu in 10th the result is

> > > > > > > > > > > " Sir Fat Jaye, Rahu ka bura asar Budh ( Budh

ki

> > > > Aashiayan,

> > > > > > > > Karobaar

> > > > > > > > > > ya

> > > > > > > > > > > Rishtedar mutlka Budh ) par hoga. " page no 388

> > > edi.1952,

> > > > > > > > chandrma

> > > > > > > > > > Khana

> > > > > > > > > > > no. 4, Mandi halat Term no. 3.

> > > > > > > > > > > Kyonki Rahu jab jab Chandrma se Drishat hoga ya

> > > mushtrka

> > > > > > hoga

> > > > > > > > vah

> > > > > > > > > Budh

> > > > > > > > > > > ko khrab karega.

> > > > > > > > > > > Gustakhi ki Kashma chahta hoon.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Umesh Sharma

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > <%

40>,

> > " varun_trvd "

> > > > > > > > > > > varun_trvd@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Wandahl saheb,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks for your response. It is a

> > > > > > > > > > > > pleasure reading your views.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > You have asked ;

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the

> > > > > > > > > > > > 10th it is mentioned that Upay

> > > > > > > > > > > > of Mars would be beneficial if there

> > > > > > > > > > > > is also Moon in the 4th house. Do you

> > > > > > > > > > > > know the reason for this? I think it

> > > > > > > > > > > > is difficult to grasp.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > As I understand basically it means that

> > > > > > > > > > > > in case moon is in the 4th while the

> > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is in the 10th then it would result in:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Foggy and unrealistic thoughts, brain

> > > > > > > > > > > > splitting agony, weak eyes, diminished

> > > > > > > > > > > > wealth.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > If you notice the areas most

> > > > > > > > > > > > affected are the karaks of the moon and

> > > > > > > > > > > > the reason being that Rahu will have an

> > > > > > > > > > > > aspect on the moon.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > If that happens then the Mars upaya

> > > > > > > > > > > > should be done

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > with respect and regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > > > > > > > >

<%

40>,

> > " Finn

> > > > > > Wandahl "

> > > > > > > > > > > > finn.wandahl@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Mr. Varun Trivedi,

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for this very inspirating

article on

> > > Upaya,

> > > > > > > > which I

> > > > > > > > > like

> > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > say a few things about. However, I have a

> > rather

> > > > > > liberal

> > > > > > > > > approach

> > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Upaya as I consider the Upayas mentioned in

> > Lal

> > > Kitab

> > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > > merely

> > > > > > > > > > > > > suggestions and guidelines meant to

stimulate

> > the

> > > > > > > > intuition,

> > > > > > > > > > empathy

> > > > > > > > > > > > > and discriminative power of the astrologer

to

> > > make him

> > > > > > > > create

> > > > > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > > > own

> > > > > > > > > > > > > remedies depending upon the circumstances,

> > time

> > > and

> > > > > > place

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > each

> > > > > > > > > > > > > individual client.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > You have given Saturn in the 7th house as

an

> > > example.

> > > > > > But

> > > > > > > > > normally

> > > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > would perhaps not be much concerned about

> > that.

> > > After

> > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > it is

> > > > > > > > > > Ucha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > (exalted) and even if the 1st house was

empty

> > > thus

> > > > > > making

> > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > Saturn

> > > > > > > > > > > > > sleeping or dormant it would not cause too

> > much

> > > alarm

> > > > > > > > except

> > > > > > > > > > perhaps

> > > > > > > > > > > > > if Ketu was ahead of Saturn thereby

turning it

> > > > > > malefic. In

> > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > case

> > > > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > might even consider Ketu the problem, since

> > Ketu

> > > is

> > > > > > what

> > > > > > > > made

> > > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn Malefic.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Then you say something very interesting

about

> > > Rahu in

> > > > > > > > kendras

> > > > > > > > > > where

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the planet that gets exalted in the house

> > > occupied by

> > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > should

> > > > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > considered for Upay. However, regarding

Rahu

> > in

> > > the

> > > > > > first,

> > > > > > > > it is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > alreading said in Lal Kitab that the Sun

would

> > be

> > > > > > > > eclipsed, not

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun itself but the house occupied by the

Sun.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > In annual charts, however, I have often

had the

> > > > > > > > experience, that

> > > > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > really the Sun itself that gets eclipsed

and

> > > destroyed

> > > > > > > > when Rahu

> > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the first rather than the house occupied by

> > the

> > > Sun.

> > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > coming

> > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the 1st house can really destroy the rank

and

> > > position

> > > > > > of a

> > > > > > > > > > person.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > However, the problem with Rahu in the 1st

in

> > the

> > > > > > context

> > > > > > > > of Upay

> > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > that the Sun is both significator of the

first

> > > house

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > > > exalted

> > > > > > > > > > > > > there at the same time, and it make little

> > > difference

> > > > > > if we

> > > > > > > > > > involve

> > > > > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > in Upay for one reason or the other as

long as

> > > it is

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > same

> > > > > > > > > > > planet.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the 10th

it

> > is

> > > > > > mentioned

> > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > Upay

> > > > > > > > > > > > > of Mars would be beneficial if there is

also

> > > Moon in

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > 4th

> > > > > > > > > > house.

> > > > > > > > > > > Do

> > > > > > > > > > > > > you know the reason for this? I think it is

> > > difficult

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > grasp.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Then if Rahu was in the 7th house, Saturn

> > would

> > > hardly

> > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > > > > choice for remedy even though it is exalted

> > > there. I

> > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > no

> > > > > > > > > > doubt

> > > > > > > > > > > > > consider Venus first and perhaps also

Mercury

> > if

> > > > > > daughters

> > > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > > sisters

> > > > > > > > > > > > > were involved.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu in the 4th by itself should not be a

> > > problem as

> > > > > > it has

> > > > > > > > > takes

> > > > > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > oath not to cause evil when alone or with

the

> > > Moon in

> > > > > > 4th

> > > > > > > > house.

> > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > don't know if remedy of Jupiter could be

used

> > in

> > > case

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > > being

> > > > > > > > > > > > > malefic in the 4th. I think Moon or perhaps

> > > Saturn

> > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > be my

> > > > > > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > > > > choice in such a case.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Finn Wandahl

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > > > <%

40>,

> > " varun_trvd "

> > > > > > > > > > > > > varun_trvd@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected members,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Devising the form of upaya:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lal Kitab 1952 urdu ed page 620 last

lines :

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn in the 7th house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Khand se bharkar bansari bahar veerane

mein

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > dabana mubarik, basharte ki Shanishchar

soya

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > na ho; agar soya ho to shahad ke bartan

ka

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > upaya madadgar hoga

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > At the first reading it would appear

that if

> > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn is not dormant [ soya hua] then

bury

> > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > a barren place a flute filled with desi

> > sugar [

> > > > > > khand ] ;

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > if the Saturn is dormant then bury a pot

> > > filled with

> > > > > > > > honey.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > But it is not so. That is not the correct

> > > > > > understanding

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > So much so a well known Lal Kitab scholar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > made a slip when he wrote in his book for

> > > Saturn in

> > > > > > 7th:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > kisi bartan ko shahad se bharkar bahar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > dabane ka upaya sahayak hoga

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct upaya is to establish at

home in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the south west corner a pot filled with

> > honey.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thus the correct upaya is establishing

and

> > not

> > > > > > burying.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > This has already been discussed here in

the

> > > group.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those who wish to read the logic behind

> > > establishing

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > can go to the archives and read.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I began by giving this example to show

how

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > difficult it is to devise an upaya and

more

> > so

> > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > decide the form of upaya

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > In most cases, the Lal Kitab does not

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > explain the form of upaya to be done. It

just

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > suggests that the upaya for such-n-such

> > planet

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > be done e.g. mangal ka upaya madadgar

hoga.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > This statement by itself is not very

> > helpful.

> > > It is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the Lalkitabist who has to decide the

form

> > of

> > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > mangal ka upaya. He has to decide

whether the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > karaks of mangal are to be immersed in

> > flowing

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > water, or gifted at a temple or buried

and

> > so

> > > on.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The upaya devised has to be correct and

> > > effective.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > This needs a very good understanding of

the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > system and a very wide experience.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me explain this with an example :

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > For Rahu placed in the Kendra houses, it

is

> > > advised

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > that the upaya should be done of the

planet

> > > which

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > gets exalted in that house.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, if the Rahu is placed in the

1st

> > > house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and has been identified as malefic then

> > surya

> > > ka

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > upaya madadgar hoga. Now what should be

the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > form of this surya ka upaya. Should we

> > immerse

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks of the Sun in flowing water,

or

> > > should

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > we bury the karaks of the sun, or should

we

> > > offer

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks of the sun at a temple, or any

> > other

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > form of upaya to be devised.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thankfully in this case it has been

> > indicated

> > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks of the Sun should be gifted

at a

> > > temple.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is done to strengthen the Sun so

that he

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > could withstand the eclipsing ability of

> > Rahu.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > But for the same Rahu in the 10th house

the

> > > book

> > > > > > says:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > khali mandir se rahu sota, tez swabhav

manda

> > ho

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > mitra grah par keechad deta, upaya

mangal ka

> > > uttam

> > > > ho

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now in this case no indication has been

> > given

> > > as to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > what will be the form of mangal ka upaya,

> > like

> > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the case of Rahu in the 1st house

where

> > > gifting

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > karaks of Sun has been indicated. Will

> > gifting

> > > the

> > > > > > karaks

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of mangal at any temple be a correct

upaya?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If not, then what should be the form of

the

> > > upaya ?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > A rahu placed in the 10th can not do any

> > > damage to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn but it will definitely harm the

> > > > significations

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of the 10th house, be it a job or name or

> > fame.

> > > > > > > > Therefore,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > if the rahu is adjudged as malefic, then

an

> > > upaya

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > will become necessary. So what would be

the

> > > form

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of the upaya. We know that mangal will

help,

> > > but in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > what form? It is the Lalkitabist who has

to

> > > decide

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > form of the upaya.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the book says:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu ka manda asar teve wale par nahi

hoga :

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > jab mangal nek ho

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this case the Rahu has to be brought

under

> > > > control

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > such that it is not able to damage the

> > > > > > significations of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 10th house. Since Mangal shubh alone

can

> > > control

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu therefore the karak of mangal shubh

has

> > > to be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > established at home, keep at home a

little

> > > honey

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > in a silver dibbi towards the west. This

> > upaya

> > > will

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > keep the belligerent Rahu under control.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now you know the difference. In one case

it

> > is

> > > > > > gifting

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks which would be an effective

upaya

> > > where

> > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the next case it is establishing a

karak

> > > would be

> > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > effective upaya.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore devising upaya is a science

which a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lalkitabist has to learn. It comes with

time

> > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > experience. That is why upaya suggested

> > through

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ready reckoners do not work.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

> --

> Dr. Shiv Dev Kalsi,

> Jyotish Rishi (AIFAS)

> Consultant (Vedic Astrology)

>

-- Dr. Shiv Dev Kalsi,Jyotish Rishi (AIFAS)Consultant (Vedic Astrology)

June 25, 2008

Very respected Kalsi ji,

Misinterpreting what?

Relationship between the Lal Kitab and the traditional astrology or

the planets the moon considers as its enemies.

For the first it is a rational,calculated , well thoughtout and

planned stand we have taken. We do not care what others think about

our stand.

For the second, I have quoted the book. We interpret it as rahu and

ketu might have hostile attitude towards the moon but the moon

doesn't have the attitude of hostility towards them.

You could interpret it differently if you like. We do not have to

necessarily abide by your interpretation.

With respect and naman,

Varun Trivedi

, " Shivdev Kalsi "

<shivdev.kalsi wrote:

>

> Dear Varun Ji,

>

> It is really very astonishing.I could not expect this type of

> interpretion from you.

>

> Yours

>

> Shiv Dev Kalsi

>

On 6/25/08, varun_trvd <varun_trvd wrote:

> >

> > Very respected Kalsi ji,

> >

> > We have publically declared through the preface of this group

that

> > we do not consider the Lal Kitab as different from traditional

vedic

> > astrology. To us the Lal Kitab is a paddhati of traditional vedic

> > astrology, it is a sub system of traditional vedic astrology. We

do

> > not accept the Lal Kitab as a different system.

> >

> > Therefore we do not accept a term or a statement like ' mixing

Lal

> > Kitab with vedic astrology'

> >

> > Please go to page # 31 of 1952 urdu ed and see the table given

for

> > friends and enemies of the planets.

> >

> > Under the column uska dushman grah for moon, no planet is

mentioned as an

> > enemy. It says 'ketu se grahan rahu se madhyam'

> >

> > Respect and naman,

> >

> > Varun Trivedi

> >

> > <%

40>,

> > " Shivdev Kalsi "

> > <shivdev.kalsi@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Varun Ji,

> > > You are mixing traditional or so termed Vedic Astrology rules

in

> > Lalkitab.

> > > May you elaborate little on you line

> > > " The moon doesn't consider any planet as its enemy " .

> > > I don't think these line exists in Lalkitab

> > > Yours

> > > Shiv Dev Kalsi

> > > On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 11:32 AM, varun_trvd <varun_trvd@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > > Aadarneeya Umesh ji,

> > > >

> > > > The moon doesn't consider any planet as its enemy. But

Mercury

> > and

> > > > Venus both consider the moon as their enemy. Since both the

> > planets

> > > > consider moon as the enemy, they are likely to adversely

affect

> > the

> > > > moon.

> > > >

> > > > With regards,

> > > >

> > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > >

> > > > --- In

<%

40>

> > <%

> > 40>,

> > > > " Umesh Sharma "

> > > > <mudit982001@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Respected Varun ji,

> > > > > You Say,

> > > > > For sun + mars the book says :

> > > > > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho

> > > > > This is simple to explain, have a look at what

> > > > > constitutes these two planets.

> > > > > Mars = sun + mercury

> > > > > Sun = mercury + venus

> > > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury

> > > > > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore

> > > > > it is natural that this combination will not be

> > > > > conducive for moon.

> > > > > MY QUESTION IS

> > > > > 1.HAS THE VENUS IS HAVING ENIMITY WITH MOON?

> > > > > 2.HAS THE MOON IS HAVING ENEMITY WITH MERCURY?

> > > > > REGARDS AND WITH ALL RESPECT

> > > > > UMESH SHARMA

> > > > >

> > > > > -- In

<%

40>

> > <%

> > 40>,

> > > > " varun_trvd "

> > > > > <varun_trvd@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Respected Umesh ji,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My views on the issues you have raised.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > [ 1 ] Lal Kitab varshphal sarini :

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In traditional vedic Jyotish there are quite a few

> > > > > >

> > > > > > methods prevalent for working out the Varshphal

> > > > > >

> > > > > > kundali. The Lal Kitab has suggested yet another

> > > > > >

> > > > > > method. Therefore there is nothing unusual or

> > > > > >

> > > > > > surprising about the method.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The major question is what could have been the

> > > > > >

> > > > > > logic or the arithmetic applied to generate the table.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > We know that unless there was some formula the

> > > > > >

> > > > > > table could not have been generated. We do not

> > > > > >

> > > > > > know the formula as yet. But sure one day the

> > > > > >

> > > > > > formula would be known. Till such time the formula

> > > > > >

> > > > > > used is found out, let us not treat the sarini as some

> > > > > >

> > > > > > thing super natural. There is nothing mystical or

> > > > > >

> > > > > > super natural about it. It is an ordinary table; there

are

> > > > > >

> > > > > > hundreds of such tables used in the traditional astrology

> > > > > >

> > > > > > [ 2 ] For sun + mars the book says :

> > > > > >

> > > > > > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This is simple to explain, have a look at what

> > > > > >

> > > > > > constitutes these two planets.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Mars = sun + mercury

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sun = mercury + venus

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury

> > > > > >

> > > > > > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore

> > > > > >

> > > > > > it is natural that this combination will not be

> > > > > >

> > > > > > conducive for moon.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > [ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says :

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Ketu mande ho madad guru ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Here Jupiter is used to strengthen ketu. There is

> > > > > >

> > > > > > nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

> > > > > >

> > > > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for

> > > > > >

> > > > > > strengthening another friendly planet.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > With great respect and regards,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --- In

> > <%

40>

> > <%

> > 40>,

> > > > " Umesh Sharma "

> > > > > > <mudit982001@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Respected Gill j]==[,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > There are so many other Terms which we are not

understand.

> > As

> > > > > example

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 1. What are the logic of Varshaphal Sarani?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 2. Why Moon is week or Manda when Sun and Mars are

combind?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 3. When Ketu in 3rd than why we do upay of Jupiter?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So many other questions.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > because, i am a practioner astrologer and from last 15

yrs

> > of

> > > > my

> > > > > > > astrological life i use these terms as it is and get

> > success.

> > > > So

> > > > > i

> > > > > > have

> > > > > > > no doubt. I think one bigger difference in you and me

that

> > you

> > > > > are not

> > > > > > a

> > > > > > > professional astrologer but I am. I think Astrology is

your

> > > > > Hobby but

> > > > > > > in my case it is my " Bread & Butter " so I have " PURAN

> > SHARDHA "

> > > > on

> > > > > this

> > > > > > > book. I Discuss and understand the theory of Lal-Kitab

from

> > > > other

> > > > > > > scholars,. As You, Sh. Vareun Trivedi ji, Sh. Bhooshan

> > Priya

> > > > > ji,, Sh.

> > > > > > > Kulbeer ji, Sh. Yograj Prabhakar ji, Sh. Lalkitabi ji,

Sh.

> > > > > > > L.K.Vashishath ji, Late Sh. B.R.Gupta ( My Father-in-

Law).

> > No

> > > > > doubt,

> > > > > > > you are doing the good job in favour of Lal-kitab,

keep it

> > up.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Umesh Sharma

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --- In

> > <%

40>

> > <%

> > 40>,

> > > > " gill_hs2005 "

> > > > > > > gill_hs2005@ wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Sir umesh ji,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Agar budh itna taqatvar hai ki dono rahu aur ketu ko

apne

> > > > > dayre mein

> > > > > > > > bandh kar rakh sakta hai, to rahu manda hone par

budh par

> > > > > parbhav

> > > > > > > > kaise padega? Jo taqat dono ko bandh kar rakh sakti

hai

> > vah

> > > > > taqat

> > > > > > > > rahu aur ketu dono se badi huyee ki nahi. Apki baat

se

> > yeh

> > > > > samajh

> > > > > > > > mein aya ki rahu aur ketu budh ke adheen hain na ki

budh

> > in

> > > > > dono ke.

> > > > > > > > Jab budh rahu ketu ke adheen hi nahin hai to rahu ya

> > ketu ke

> > > > > mande

> > > > > > > > hone ka asar budh par kaise ho sakta hai, yeh baat

samajh

> > > > mein

> > > > > nahi

> > > > > > > > ayee.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Sincerely,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > HS Gill

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --- In

> > <%

40>

> > <%

> > 40>,

> > > > " Umesh Sharma "

> > > > > > > > mudit982001@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Respected Gill ji,

> > > > > > > > > " Rahu-Ketu jo Pap gine hain, Grah sab hi ko

ghumate

> > hain ,

> > > > > > > > > Guru Akela Do ko chalave, ghumtey par vo budh main

> > hain "

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Umesh Sharma

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --- In

> > <%

40>

> > <%

> > 40>,

> > > > " gill_hs2005 "

> > > > > > > > > <gill_hs2005@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Sir Umesh Sharma ji,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > 1. page no 386 Moon in 4th house

> > > > > > > > > > > Manda asar

> > > > > > > > > > > Note #3. Sar Fat jaye, Rahu ka manda asar Budh

(

> > Budh

> > > > ki

> > > > > > > > > > Aashiyaan,

> > > > > > > > > > > Karobaar ya Rishtedaar__ Mutlka budh) par hoga

{

> > Rahu

> > > > > Khana #

> > > > > > > > 10}

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Agar chander 4 hai aur rahu 10 mein to budh par

gaaz

> > > > kyon

> > > > > giri ?

> > > > > > > > > > budh ka talluk na to khana 4 se hai aur nahi

khana 10

> > > > se.

> > > > > budh

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > dono gharon mein bhi nahi hai to phir budh ki

ashiya,

> > > > > karobar ya

> > > > > > > > > > rishtedar par bura asar kaise padega?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Sincerely,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > HS Gill

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > <%

40>

> > <%

> > 40>,

> > > > " Umesh

> > > > Sharma "

> > > > > > > > > > mudit982001@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Respected Sir,

> > > > > > > > > > > Now there are two Statements in this regards

> > > > > > > > > > > 1. page no 386 Moon in 4th house

> > > > > > > > > > > Manda asar

> > > > > > > > > > > Note #3. Sar Fat jaye, Rahu ka manda asar Budh

(

> > Budh

> > > > ki

> > > > > > > > > > Aashiyaan,

> > > > > > > > > > > Karobaar ya Rishtedaar__ Mutlka budh) par hoga

{

> > Rahu

> > > > > Khana #

> > > > > > > > 10}

> > > > > > > > > > > 2. RAHU in house # 10 :

> > > > > > > > > > > 1952 urdu ed : Page 680 ; note # 9

> > > > > > > > > > > Khyali dimagi dhuan bayas pareshani Ã¢â‚¬ "

dimagh

> > > > > > > > > > > phate ya sar kate ya nazar gum ho jave- aur

dhan

> > > > > > > > > > > daulat par bijli ki tarah manda asar hoga

> > > > > > > > > > > [ Chandra khana # 4 ]

> > > > > > > > > > > HOW TO DECIDE WHICH STATEMENT IS APPLICABLE?

> > > > > > > > > > > Bhai yograj ji ki baat bilkul sahi hey par mere

> > hisab

> > > > se

> > > > > Grah

> > > > > > > > ka

> > > > > > > > > > Khana

> > > > > > > > > > > main akele bethe hone par honi chahiye. Yahan

par

> > to

> > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > Chandar

> > > > > > > > > > se

> > > > > > > > > > > drishat ho raha hey. May be i wrong.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > With

> > > > > > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Umesh Sharma

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > #1. Moon in 4th and rahu in 10th

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > <%

40>

> > <%

> > 40>,

> > > > " varun_trvd "

> > > > > > > > > > > <varun_trvd@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Umesh ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > RAHU in house # 10 :

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > 1952 urdu ed : Page 680 ; note # 9

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Khyali dimagi dhuan bayas pareshani Ã¢â‚¬ "

dimagh

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > phate ya sar kate ya nazar gum ho jave- aur

dhan

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > daulat par bijli ki tarah manda asar hoga

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > [ Chandra khana # 4 ]

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > While answering to Wandahl ji, the context he

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > had asked me to explain from was Rahu in the

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. Therefore I had translated the

above

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > lines from the book into English for my

answer.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > With great respect and regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > <%

40>

> > <%

> > 40>,

> > > > " Umesh

> > > > > Sharma "

> > > > > > > > > > > > mudit982001@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Varun ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > If Moon in 4th and Rahu in 10th the result

is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > " Sir Fat Jaye, Rahu ka bura asar Budh (

Budh

> > ki

> > > > > > Aashiayan,

> > > > > > > > > > Karobaar

> > > > > > > > > > > > ya

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Rishtedar mutlka Budh ) par hoga. " page no

388

> > > > > edi.1952,

> > > > > > > > > > chandrma

> > > > > > > > > > > > Khana

> > > > > > > > > > > > > no. 4, Mandi halat Term no. 3.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Kyonki Rahu jab jab Chandrma se Drishat

hoga ya

> > > > > mushtrka

> > > > > > > > hoga

> > > > > > > > > > vah

> > > > > > > > > > > Budh

> > > > > > > > > > > > > ko khrab karega.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Gustakhi ki Kashma chahta hoon.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Umesh Sharma

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > > <%

40>

> > <%

> > 40>,

> > > > " varun_trvd "

> > > > > > > > > > > > > varun_trvd@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Wandahl saheb,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks for your response. It is a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > pleasure reading your views.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have asked ;

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th it is mentioned that Upay

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of Mars would be beneficial if there

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > is also Moon in the 4th house. Do you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > know the reason for this? I think it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > is difficult to grasp.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I understand basically it means that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > in case moon is in the 4th while the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is in the 10th then it would result

in:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Foggy and unrealistic thoughts, brain

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > splitting agony, weak eyes, diminished

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wealth.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you notice the areas most

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > affected are the karaks of the moon and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the reason being that Rahu will have an

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > aspect on the moon.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If that happens then the Mars upaya

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > should be done

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > with respect and regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > <%

40>

> > <%

> > 40>,

> > > > " Finn

> > > > > > > > Wandahl "

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > finn.wandahl@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Mr. Varun Trivedi,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for this very inspirating

> > article on

> > > > > Upaya,

> > > > > > > > > > which I

> > > > > > > > > > > like

> > > > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > say a few things about. However, I

have a

> > > > rather

> > > > > > > > liberal

> > > > > > > > > > > approach

> > > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Upaya as I consider the Upayas

mentioned in

> > > > Lal

> > > > > Kitab

> > > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > > > > merely

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suggestions and guidelines meant to

> > stimulate

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > intuition,

> > > > > > > > > > > > empathy

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and discriminative power of the

astrologer

> > to

> > > > > make him

> > > > > > > > > > create

> > > > > > > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > > > > > own

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > remedies depending upon the

circumstances,

> > > > time

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > place

> > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > each

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > individual client.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have given Saturn in the 7th house

as

> > an

> > > > > example.

> > > > > > > > But

> > > > > > > > > > > normally

> > > > > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would perhaps not be much concerned

about

> > > > that.

> > > > > After

> > > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > > > it is

> > > > > > > > > > > > Ucha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (exalted) and even if the 1st house was

> > empty

> > > > > thus

> > > > > > > > making

> > > > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sleeping or dormant it would not cause

too

> > > > much

> > > > > alarm

> > > > > > > > > > except

> > > > > > > > > > > > perhaps

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if Ketu was ahead of Saturn thereby

> > turning it

> > > > > > > > malefic. In

> > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > case

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > might even consider Ketu the problem,

since

> > > > Ketu

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > what

> > > > > > > > > > made

> > > > > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn Malefic.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then you say something very interesting

> > about

> > > > > Rahu in

> > > > > > > > > > kendras

> > > > > > > > > > > > where

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the planet that gets exalted in the

house

> > > > > occupied by

> > > > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > > > should

> > > > > > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > considered for Upay. However, regarding

> > Rahu

> > > > in

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > first,

> > > > > > > > > > it is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > alreading said in Lal Kitab that the

Sun

> > would

> > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > eclipsed, not

> > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun itself but the house occupied by

the

> > Sun.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In annual charts, however, I have often

> > had the

> > > > > > > > > > experience, that

> > > > > > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > really the Sun itself that gets

eclipsed

> > and

> > > > > destroyed

> > > > > > > > > > when Rahu

> > > > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the first rather than the house

occupied by

> > > > the

> > > > > Sun.

> > > > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > > coming

> > > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 1st house can really destroy the

rank

> > and

> > > > > position

> > > > > > > > of a

> > > > > > > > > > > > person.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, the problem with Rahu in the

1st

> > in

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > context

> > > > > > > > > > of Upay

> > > > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that the Sun is both significator of

the

> > first

> > > > > house

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > > > > > exalted

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there at the same time, and it make

little

> > > > > difference

> > > > > > > > if we

> > > > > > > > > > > > involve

> > > > > > > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in Upay for one reason or the other as

> > long as

> > > > > it is

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > same

> > > > > > > > > > > > > planet.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the

10th

> > it

> > > > is

> > > > > > > > mentioned

> > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > Upay

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of Mars would be beneficial if there is

> > also

> > > > > Moon in

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > 4th

> > > > > > > > > > > > house.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Do

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you know the reason for this? I think

it is

> > > > > difficult

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > grasp.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then if Rahu was in the 7th house,

Saturn

> > > > would

> > > > > hardly

> > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > choice for remedy even though it is

exalted

> > > > > there. I

> > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > no

> > > > > > > > > > > > doubt

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > consider Venus first and perhaps also

> > Mercury

> > > > if

> > > > > > > > daughters

> > > > > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > > > > sisters

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > were involved.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu in the 4th by itself should not

be a

> > > > > problem as

> > > > > > > > it has

> > > > > > > > > > > takes

> > > > > > > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > oath not to cause evil when alone or

with

> > the

> > > > > Moon in

> > > > > > > > 4th

> > > > > > > > > > house.

> > > > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > don't know if remedy of Jupiter could

be

> > used

> > > > in

> > > > > case

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > > > > being

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > malefic in the 4th. I think Moon or

perhaps

> > > > > Saturn

> > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > be my

> > > > > > > > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > choice in such a case.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Finn Wandahl

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > > > > >

<%

40>

> > <%

> > 40>,

> > > > " varun_trvd "

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > varun_trvd@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected members,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Devising the form of upaya:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lal Kitab 1952 urdu ed page 620 last

> > lines :

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn in the 7th house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Khand se bharkar bansari bahar

veerane

> > mein

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dabana mubarik, basharte ki

Shanishchar

> > soya

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > na ho; agar soya ho to shahad ke

bartan

> > ka

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > upaya madadgar hoga

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At the first reading it would appear

> > that if

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn is not dormant [ soya hua]

then

> > bury

> > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a barren place a flute filled with

desi

> > > > sugar [

> > > > > > > > khand ] ;

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if the Saturn is dormant then bury a

pot

> > > > > filled with

> > > > > > > > > > honey.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But it is not so. That is not the

correct

> > > > > > > > understanding

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So much so a well known Lal Kitab

scholar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > made a slip when he wrote in his

book for

> > > > > Saturn in

> > > > > > > > 7th:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kisi bartan ko shahad se bharkar

bahar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dabane ka upaya sahayak hoga

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct upaya is to establish at

> > home in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the south west corner a pot filled

with

> > > > honey.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thus the correct upaya is

establishing

> > and

> > > > not

> > > > > > > > burying.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This has already been discussed here

in

> > the

> > > > > group.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those who wish to read the logic

behind

> > > > > establishing

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can go to the archives and read.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I began by giving this example to

show

> > how

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > difficult it is to devise an upaya

and

> > more

> > > > so

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > decide the form of upaya

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In most cases, the Lal Kitab does not

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > explain the form of upaya to be

done. It

> > just

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suggests that the upaya for such-n-

such

> > > > planet

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be done e.g. mangal ka upaya madadgar

> > hoga.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This statement by itself is not very

> > > > helpful.

> > > > > It is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the Lalkitabist who has to decide the

> > form

> > > > of

> > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mangal ka upaya. He has to decide

> > whether the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karaks of mangal are to be immersed

in

> > > > flowing

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > water, or gifted at a temple or

buried

> > and

> > > > so

> > > > > on.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The upaya devised has to be correct

and

> > > > > effective.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This needs a very good understanding

of

> > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > system and a very wide experience.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me explain this with an example :

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For Rahu placed in the Kendra

houses, it

> > is

> > > > > advised

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that the upaya should be done of the

> > planet

> > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gets exalted in that house.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, if the Rahu is placed in

the

> > 1st

> > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and has been identified as malefic

then

> > > > surya

> > > > > ka

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > upaya madadgar hoga. Now what should

be

> > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > form of this surya ka upaya. Should

we

> > > > immerse

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks of the Sun in flowing

water,

> > or

> > > > > should

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we bury the karaks of the sun, or

should

> > we

> > > > > offer

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks of the sun at a temple,

or any

> > > > other

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > form of upaya to be devised.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thankfully in this case it has been

> > > > indicated

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks of the Sun should be

gifted

> > at a

> > > > > temple.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is done to strengthen the Sun so

> > that he

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > could withstand the eclipsing

ability of

> > > > Rahu.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But for the same Rahu in the 10th

house

> > the

> > > > > book

> > > > > > > > says:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > khali mandir se rahu sota, tez

swabhav

> > manda

> > > > ho

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mitra grah par keechad deta, upaya

> > mangal ka

> > > > > uttam

> > > > > > ho

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now in this case no indication has

been

> > > > given

> > > > > as to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what will be the form of mangal ka

upaya,

> > > > like

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the case of Rahu in the 1st house

> > where

> > > > > gifting

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karaks of Sun has been indicated.

Will

> > > > gifting

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > karaks

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of mangal at any temple be a correct

> > upaya?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If not, then what should be the form

of

> > the

> > > > > upaya ?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A rahu placed in the 10th can not do

any

> > > > > damage to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn but it will definitely harm

the

> > > > > > significations

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of the 10th house, be it a job or

name or

> > > > fame.

> > > > > > > > > > Therefore,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if the rahu is adjudged as malefic,

then

> > an

> > > > > upaya

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will become necessary. So what would

be

> > the

> > > > > form

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of the upaya. We know that mangal

will

> > help,

> > > > > but in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what form? It is the Lalkitabist who

has

> > to

> > > > > decide

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > form of the upaya.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the book says:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu ka manda asar teve wale par nahi

> > hoga :

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jab mangal nek ho

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this case the Rahu has to be

brought

> > under

> > > > > > control

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > such that it is not able to damage

the

> > > > > > > > significations of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 10th house. Since Mangal shubh

alone

> > can

> > > > > control

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu therefore the karak of mangal

shubh

> > has

> > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > established at home, keep at home a

> > little

> > > > > honey

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in a silver dibbi towards the west.

This

> > > > upaya

> > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > keep the belligerent Rahu under

control.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now you know the difference. In one

case

> > it

> > > > is

> > > > > > > > gifting

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks which would be an

effective

> > upaya

> > > > > where

> > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the next case it is establishing a

> > karak

> > > > > would be

> > > > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > effective upaya.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore devising upaya is a science

> > which a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lalkitabist has to learn. It comes

with

> > time

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > experience. That is why upaya

suggested

> > > > through

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ready reckoners do not work.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > --

> > > Dr. Shiv Dev Kalsi,

> > > Jyotish Rishi (AIFAS)

> > > Consultant (Vedic Astrology)

> > >

> >

>

> --

> Dr. Shiv Dev Kalsi,

> Jyotish Rishi (AIFAS)

> Consultant (Vedic Astrology)

>

June 25, 2008

Most Respected Varunji,

Seems to me that most of the participants rejecting logic are full of "perception" than "information" and to me , its difficult to address the perception. I'd wait and watch for others to come up with their own rational rather than keep on rejecting the information.

Cheers

Bhupinder--- On Wed, 6/25/08, varun_trvd <varun_trvd wrote:

varun_trvd <varun_trvdLK discussion group Re:Devising the form of an upaya / Pt. Umesh Sharma ji Date: Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 10:47 PM

Very respected Kalsi ji,Misinterpreting what?Relationship between the Lal Kitab and the traditional astrology or the planets the moon considers as its enemies.For the first it is a rational,calculated , well thoughtout and planned stand we have taken. We do not care what others think about our stand.For the second, I have quoted the book. We interpret it as rahu and ketu might have hostile attitude towards the moon but the moon doesn't have the attitude of hostility towards them.You could interpret it differently if you like. We do not have to necessarily abide by your interpretation.With respect and naman,Varun Trivedi , "Shivdev Kalsi" <shivdev.kalsi@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Varun Ji,> > It is really

very astonishing. I could not expect this type of> interpretion from you.> > Yours> > Shiv Dev Kalsi> > > > > > > > > > > > > On 6/25/08, varun_trvd <varun_trvd@ ...> wrote:> >> > Very respected Kalsi ji,> >> > We have publically declared through the preface of this group that> > we do not consider the Lal Kitab as different from traditional vedic> > astrology. To us the Lal Kitab is a paddhati of traditional vedic> > astrology, it is a sub system of traditional vedic astrology. We do> > not accept the Lal Kitab as a different system.> >> > Therefore we do not accept a term or a statement like ' mixing Lal> > Kitab with vedic astrology'> >> > Please go to page # 31 of 1952 urdu ed

and see the table given for> > friends and enemies of the planets.> >> > Under the column uska dushman grah for moon, no planet is mentioned as an> > enemy. It says 'ketu se grahan rahu se madhyam'> >> > Respect and naman,> >> > Varun Trivedi> >> > <lalkitab_discussio n%40. com>,> > "Shivdev Kalsi"> > <shivdev.kalsi@ > wrote:> > >> > > Dear Varun Ji,> > > You are mixing traditional or so termed Vedic Astrology rules in> > Lalkitab.> > > May you elaborate little on you line> > > "The moon doesn't consider any planet as its enemy".> > > I don't think these line exists in

Lalkitab> > > Yours> > > Shiv Dev Kalsi> > > On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 11:32 AM, varun_trvd <varun_trvd@ >> > wrote:> > >> > > > Aadarneeya Umesh ji,> > > >> > > > The moon doesn't consider any planet as its enemy. But Mercury> > and> > > > Venus both consider the moon as their enemy. Since both the> > planets> > > > consider moon as the enemy, they are likely to adversely affect> > the> > > > moon.> > > >> > > > With regards,> > > >> > > >> > > > Varun Trivedi> > > >> > > > <lalkitab_discussio

n%40. com>> > <lalkitab_discussio n%> > 40. com>,> > > > "Umesh Sharma"> > > > <mudit982001@ > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Respected Varun ji,> > > > > You Say,> > > > > For sun + mars the book says :> > > > > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho> > > > > This is simple to explain, have a look at what> > > > > constitutes these two planets.> > > > > Mars = sun + mercury> > > > > Sun = mercury + venus> > > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury> > > > > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore> > > > > it is natural that this combination will not be> > > > > conducive for moon.> >

> > > MY QUESTION IS> > > > > 1.HAS THE VENUS IS HAVING ENIMITY WITH MOON?> > > > > 2.HAS THE MOON IS HAVING ENEMITY WITH MERCURY?> > > > > REGARDS AND WITH ALL RESPECT> > > > > UMESH SHARMA> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > -- In <lalkitab_discussio n%40. com>> > <lalkitab_discussio n%> > 40. com>,> > > > "varun_trvd"> > > > > <varun_trvd@ > wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Respected Umesh ji,> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > My

views on the issues you have raised.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > [ 1 ] Lal Kitab varshphal sarini :> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > In traditional vedic Jyotish there are quite a few> > > > > >> > > > > > methods prevalent for working out the Varshphal> > > > > >> > > > > > kundali. The Lal Kitab has suggested yet another> > > > > >> > > > > > method. Therefore there is nothing unusual or> > > > > >> > > > > > surprising about the method.> > > > > >> > > > > >> >

> > > >> > > > > > The major question is what could have been the> > > > > >> > > > > > logic or the arithmetic applied to generate the table.> > > > > >> > > > > > We know that unless there was some formula the> > > > > >> > > > > > table could not have been generated. We do not> > > > > >> > > > > > know the formula as yet. But sure one day the> > > > > >> > > > > > formula would be known. Till such time the formula> > > > > >> > > > > > used is found out, let us not treat the sarini as some> > > > > >> > > > > > thing super natural. There is nothing mystical or> > > > > >> > >

> > > super natural about it. It is an ordinary table; there are> > > > > >> > > > > > hundreds of such tables used in the traditional astrology> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > [ 2 ] For sun + mars the book says :> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > This is simple to explain, have a look at what> > > > > >> > > > > > constitutes these two planets.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Mars =

sun + mercury> > > > > >> > > > > > Sun = mercury + venus> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury> > > > > >> > > > > > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore> > > > > >> > > > > > it is natural that this combination will not be> > > > > >> > > > > > conducive for moon.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > [ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says :> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Ketu mande ho madad guru ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho> >

> > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Here Jupiter is used to strengthen ketu. There is> > > > > >> > > > > > nothing unusual in that. This is a very common> > > > > >> > > > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for> > > > > >> > > > > > strengthening another friendly planet.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > With great respect and regards,> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Varun Trivedi> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> >

> > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > --- In> > <lalkitab_discussio n%40. com>> > <lalkitab_discussio n%> > 40. com>,> > > > "Umesh Sharma"> > > > > > <mudit982001@ > wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >

Respected Gill j]==[,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > There are so many other Terms which we are not understand.> > As> > > > > example> > > > > > >> > > > > > > 1. What are the logic of Varshaphal Sarani?> > > > > > >> > > > > > > 2. Why Moon is week or Manda when Sun and Mars are combind?> > > > > > >> > > > > > > 3. When Ketu in 3rd than why we do upay of Jupiter?> > > > > > >> > > > > > > So many other questions.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > because, i am a practioner astrologer and from last 15 yrs> > of> > > > my> > > > > > > astrological life i use these terms as it is

and get> > success.> > > > So> > > > > i> > > > > > have> > > > > > > no doubt. I think one bigger difference in you and me that> > you> > > > > are not> > > > > > a> > > > > > > professional astrologer but I am. I think Astrology is your> > > > > Hobby but> > > > > > > in my case it is my "Bread & Butter" so I have " PURAN> > SHARDHA"> > > > on> > > > > this> > > > > > > book. I Discuss and understand the theory of Lal-Kitab from> > > > other> > > > > > > scholars,. As You, Sh. Vareun Trivedi ji, Sh. Bhooshan> > Priya> > > > > ji,, Sh.> > > > > > > Kulbeer ji, Sh.

Yograj Prabhakar ji, Sh. Lalkitabi ji, Sh.> > > > > > > L.K.Vashishath ji, Late Sh. B.R.Gupta ( My Father-in-Law).> > No> > > > > doubt,> > > > > > > you are doing the good job in favour of Lal-kitab, keep it> > up.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Regards> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Umesh Sharma> > > > > > >> > > > > > > --- In> > <lalkitab_discussio n%40. com>> > <lalkitab_discussio n%> > 40. com>,> > > > "gill_hs2005"> > >

> > > > gill_hs2005@ wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Sir umesh ji,> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Agar budh itna taqatvar hai ki dono rahu aur ketu ko apne> > > > > dayre mein> > > > > > > > bandh kar rakh sakta hai, to rahu manda hone par budh par> > > > > parbhav> > > > > > > > kaise padega? Jo taqat dono ko bandh kar rakh sakti hai> > vah> > > > > taqat> > > > > > > > rahu aur ketu dono se badi huyee ki nahi. Apki baat se> > yeh> > > > > samajh> > > > > > > > mein aya ki rahu aur ketu budh ke adheen hain na ki budh> > in> > > > > dono ke.> > > > > >

> > Jab budh rahu ketu ke adheen hi nahin hai to rahu ya> > ketu ke> > > > > mande> > > > > > > > hone ka asar budh par kaise ho sakta hai, yeh baat samajh> > > > mein> > > > > nahi> > > > > > > > ayee.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Sincerely,> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > HS Gill> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> >

> > > > > >> > > > > > > > --- In> > <lalkitab_discussio n%40. com>> > <lalkitab_discussio n%> > 40. com>,> > > > "Umesh Sharma"> > > > > > > > mudit982001@ wrote:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Respected Gill ji,> > > > > > > > > " Rahu-Ketu jo Pap gine hain, Grah sab hi ko ghumate> > hain ,> > > > > > > > > Guru Akela Do ko chalave, ghumtey par vo budh main> > hain"> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >

> > > > > Regards> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Umesh Sharma> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > --- In> > <lalkitab_discussio n%40. com>> > <lalkitab_discussio n%> > 40. com>,> > > > "gill_hs2005"> > > > > > > > > <gill_hs2005@ > wrote:> > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > Sir Umesh Sharma ji,> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > 1. page no 386 Moon in 4th house> > > > > > > > > > > Manda asar> > > > > > > > > > > Note #3. Sar Fat jaye, Rahu ka manda asar Budh (> > Budh> > > > ki> > > > > > > > > > Aashiyaan,> > > > > > > > > > > Karobaar ya Rishtedaar__ Mutlka budh) par hoga {> > Rahu> > > > > Khana #> > > > > > > > 10}> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Agar chander 4 hai aur rahu 10 mein to budh par gaaz> > > > kyon> >

> > > giri ?> > > > > > > > > > budh ka talluk na to khana 4 se hai aur nahi khana 10> > > > se.> > > > > budh> > > > > > in> > > > > > > > > > dono gharon mein bhi nahi hai to phir budh ki ashiya,> > > > > karobar ya> > > > > > > > > > rishtedar par bura asar kaise padega?> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Sincerely,> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > HS Gill> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > > > > --- In> > <lalkitab_discussio n%40. com>> > <lalkitab_discussio n%> > 40. com>,> > > > "Umesh> > > > Sharma"> > > > > > > > > > mudit982001@ wrote:> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Respected Sir,> > > > > > > > > > > Now there are two Statements in this regards> > > > > > > > > > > 1. page no 386 Moon in 4th house> > > > > > > > > > > Manda asar> > > > > > > > > > > Note #3. Sar Fat jaye, Rahu ka manda asar Budh

(> > Budh> > > > ki> > > > > > > > > > Aashiyaan,> > > > > > > > > > > Karobaar ya Rishtedaar__ Mutlka budh) par hoga {> > Rahu> > > > > Khana #> > > > > > > > 10}> > > > > > > > > > > 2. RAHU in house # 10 :> > > > > > > > > > > 1952 urdu ed : Page 680 ; note # 9> > > > > > > > > > > Khyali dimagi dhuan bayas pareshani Ã¢â‚¬" dimagh> > > > > > > > > > > phate ya sar kate ya nazar gum ho jave- aur dhan> > > > > > > > > > > daulat par bijli ki tarah manda asar hoga> > > > > > > > > > > [ Chandra khana # 4 ]> > > > > > > > > > >

HOW TO DECIDE WHICH STATEMENT IS APPLICABLE?> > > > > > > > > > > Bhai yograj ji ki baat bilkul sahi hey par mere> > hisab> > > > se> > > > > Grah> > > > > > > > ka> > > > > > > > > > Khana> > > > > > > > > > > main akele bethe hone par honi chahiye. Yahan par> > to> > > > Rahu> > > > > > > > Chandar> > > > > > > > > > se> > > > > > > > > > > drishat ho raha hey. May be i wrong.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > With> > > > > > > > > > > Regards> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >

> > > > > Umesh Sharma> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > #1. Moon in 4th and rahu in 10th> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > >

> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > --- In> > > > <lalkitab_discussio n%40. com>> > <lalkitab_discussio n%> > 40. com>,> > > > "varun_trvd"> > > > > > > > > > > <varun_trvd@ > wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Umesh ji,> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > RAHU in house # 10 :> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > 1952 urdu ed : Page 680 ; note # 9> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Khyali dimagi dhuan bayas pareshani Ã¢â‚¬" dimagh> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > phate ya sar kate ya nazar gum ho jave- aur dhan> > > > > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > daulat par bijli ki tarah manda asar hoga> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > [ Chandra khana # 4 ]> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > While answering to Wandahl ji, the context he> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > had asked me to explain from was Rahu in the> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >

> > > > > 10th house. Therefore I had translated the above> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > lines from the book into English for my answer.> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > With great respect and regards,> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >

> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In> > <lalkitab_discussio n%40. com>> > <lalkitab_discussio n%> > 40. com>,> > > > "Umesh> > > > > Sharma"> > > > > > > > > > > > mudit982001@ wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Varun ji,> > > > > > > > > > > > > If Moon in 4th and Rahu in 10th the

result is> > > > > > > > > > > > > " Sir Fat Jaye, Rahu ka bura asar Budh ( Budh> > ki> > > > > > Aashiayan,> > > > > > > > > > Karobaar> > > > > > > > > > > > ya> > > > > > > > > > > > > Rishtedar mutlka Budh ) par hoga." page no 388> > > > > edi.1952,> > > > > > > > > > chandrma> > > > > > > > > > > > Khana> > > > > > > > > > > > > no. 4, Mandi halat Term no. 3.> > > > > > > > > > > > > Kyonki Rahu jab jab Chandrma se Drishat hoga ya> > > > > mushtrka> > > > > > > > hoga> > > > > > > > > >

vah> > > > > > > > > > > Budh> > > > > > > > > > > > > ko khrab karega.> > > > > > > > > > > > > Gustakhi ki Kashma chahta hoon.> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Umesh Sharma> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >

> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In> > > > > <lalkitab_discussio n%40. com>> > <lalkitab_discussio n%> > 40. com>,> > > > "varun_trvd"> > > > > > > >

> > > > > varun_trvd@ wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Wandahl saheb,> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks for your response. It is a> > > > > > > > > > > > > > pleasure reading your views.> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have asked ;> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > 10th it is mentioned that Upay> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of Mars would be beneficial if there> > > > > > > > > > > > > > is also Moon in the 4th house. Do you> > > > > > > > > > > > > > know the reason for this? I think it> > > > > > > > > > > > > > is difficult to grasp.> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I understand basically it means that> > > > > > > > > > > > > > in case moon is in the 4th while the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is in the 10th then it would result in:> > > > > > > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Foggy and unrealistic thoughts, brain> > > > > > > > > > > > > > splitting agony, weak eyes, diminished> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wealth.> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you notice the areas most> > > > > > > > > > > > > > affected are the karaks of the moon and> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the reason being that Rahu will have an> > > > > > > > > > > > > > aspect on the moon.> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If that

happens then the Mars upaya> > > > > > > > > > > > > > should be done> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > with respect and regards,> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > >

> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In> > <lalkitab_discussio n%40. com>> > <lalkitab_discussio n%> > 40. com>,> > > > "Finn> > > > > > > > Wandahl"> > > > > > > > > > > > > > finn.wandahl@ wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Mr. Varun

Trivedi,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for this very inspirating> > article on> > > > > Upaya,> > > > > > > > > > which I> > > > > > > > > > > like> > > > > > > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > say a few things about. However, I have a> > > > rather> > > > > > > > liberal> > > > > > > > > > > approach> > > > > > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Upaya as I consider the Upayas mentioned in> > > > Lal> > >

> > Kitab> > > > > > > > to be> > > > > > > > > > > merely> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suggestions and guidelines meant to> > stimulate> > > > the> > > > > > > > > > intuition,> > > > > > > > > > > > empathy> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and discriminative power of the astrologer> > to> > > > > make him> > > > > > > > > > create> > > > > > > > > > > his> > > > > > > > > > > > > own> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > remedies depending upon the circumstances,> > > > time> >

> > > and> > > > > > > > place> > > > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > > > each> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > individual client.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have given Saturn in the 7th house as> > an> > > > > example.> > > > > > > > But> > > > > > > > > > > normally> > > > > > > > > > > > I> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would perhaps not be much concerned about> > > > that.> > > > > After> > > > > > > > all> >

> > > > > > > > it is> > > > > > > > > > > > Ucha> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (exalted) and even if the 1st house was> > empty> > > > > thus> > > > > > > > making> > > > > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sleeping or dormant it would not cause too> > > > much> > > > > alarm> > > > > > > > > > except> > > > > > > > > > > > perhaps> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if Ketu was ahead of Saturn thereby> > turning it> > > > > > > >

malefic. In> > > > > > > > > > that> > > > > > > > > > > > case> > > > > > > > > > > > > I> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > might even consider Ketu the problem, since> > > > Ketu> > > > > is> > > > > > > > what> > > > > > > > > > made> > > > > > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn Malefic.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then you say something very interesting> > about> > > > > Rahu in> > > > > > > > > >

kendras> > > > > > > > > > > > where> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the planet that gets exalted in the house> > > > > occupied by> > > > > > > > Rahu> > > > > > > > > > > should> > > > > > > > > > > > be> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > considered for Upay. However, regarding> > Rahu> > > > in> > > > > the> > > > > > > > first,> > > > > > > > > > it is> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > alreading said in Lal Kitab that the Sun> > would> > > > be> > > > > > > > > > eclipsed, not>

> > > > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun itself but the house occupied by the> > Sun.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In annual charts, however, I have often> > had the> > > > > > > > > > experience, that> > > > > > > > > > > > it> > > > > > > > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > really the Sun itself that gets eclipsed> > and> > > > > destroyed> > > > > > > > > > when Rahu> > > > > > > > > > > > is> > > > > >

> > > > > > > in> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the first rather than the house occupied by> > > > the> > > > > Sun.> > > > > > > > Rahu> > > > > > > > > > coming> > > > > > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 1st house can really destroy the rank> > and> > > > > position> > > > > > > > of a> > > > > > > > > > > > person.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, the problem with Rahu in the 1st> > in> > > > the> > > > >

> > > context> > > > > > > > > > of Upay> > > > > > > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that the Sun is both significator of the> > first> > > > > house> > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > also> > > > > > > > > > > > > exalted> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there at the same time, and it make little> > > > > difference> > > > > > > > if we> > > > > > > > > > > > involve> > > > > > > > > > > > > it> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in Upay for one reason or

the other as> > long as> > > > > it is> > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > same> > > > > > > > > > > > > planet.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the 10th> > it> > > > is> > > > > > > > mentioned> > > > > > > > > > that> > > > > > > > > > > > Upay> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of Mars would be beneficial if there is> > also> > > > > Moon in> > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > 4th> > >

> > > > > > > > > house.> > > > > > > > > > > > > Do> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you know the reason for this? I think it is> > > > > difficult> > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > grasp.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then if Rahu was in the 7th house, Saturn> > > > would> > > > > hardly> > > > > > > > be> > > > > > > > > > my> > > > > > > > > > > first> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > choice for remedy even though it is exalted> >

> > > there. I> > > > > > > > would> > > > > > > > > > no> > > > > > > > > > > > doubt> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > consider Venus first and perhaps also> > Mercury> > > > if> > > > > > > > daughters> > > > > > > > > > or> > > > > > > > > > > > > sisters> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > were involved.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu in the 4th by itself should not be a> > > > > problem as> > > > > > > > it has> > > > > > >

> > > > takes> > > > > > > > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > oath not to cause evil when alone or with> > the> > > > > Moon in> > > > > > > > 4th> > > > > > > > > > house.> > > > > > > > > > > I> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > don't know if remedy of Jupiter could be> > used> > > > in> > > > > case> > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > > Rahu> > > > > > > > > > > > being> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > malefic in the 4th. I think Moon or perhaps> > > >

> Saturn> > > > > > > > would> > > > > > > > > > be my> > > > > > > > > > > > first> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > choice in such a case.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Finn Wandahl> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In> > > > > > > > @.

com<lalkitab_discussio n%40. com>> > <lalkitab_discussio n%> > 40. com>,> > > > "varun_trvd"> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > varun_trvd@ wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected members,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Devising the form of upaya:> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lal Kitab 1952 urdu ed page 620 last> > lines :> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn in the 7th house> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Khand se bharkar bansari bahar veerane> > mein> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dabana mubarik, basharte ki Shanishchar> > soya> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > na ho; agar soya ho to shahad ke bartan> > ka> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > upaya madadgar hoga> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At the first reading it would appear> > that if> > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn is not dormant [ soya hua] then> > bury> > > > in> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a barren place a flute filled with desi> > > > sugar [> > > > > > > > khand ] ;> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if the Saturn is dormant then bury a pot> > > > > filled with> > > > > > > > > > honey.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But it is not so. That is not the correct> > > > > > > > understanding> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So much so a well known Lal Kitab scholar> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > made a slip when he wrote in his book for> > > > > Saturn in> > > > > > > > 7th:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kisi bartan ko shahad se bharkar bahar> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dabane ka upaya

sahayak hoga> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct upaya is to establish at> > home in> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the south west corner a pot filled with> > > > honey.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > Thus the correct upaya is establishing> > and> > > > not> > > > > > > > burying.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This has already been discussed here in> > the> > > > > group.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those who wish to read the logic behind> > > > > establishing> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can go to the archives and read.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I began by giving this example to show> > how> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > difficult it is to devise an upaya and> > more> > > > so> > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > decide the form of upaya> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In most cases, the Lal Kitab does not> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > explain the form of upaya to be done. It> > just> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suggests that the upaya for such-n-such> > > > planet> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

be done e.g. mangal ka upaya madadgar> > hoga.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This statement by itself is not very> > > > helpful.> > > > > It is> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the Lalkitabist who has to decide the> > form> > > > of> > > > > this> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mangal ka upaya. He has to decide> > whether the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > karaks of mangal are to be immersed in> > > > flowing> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > water, or gifted at a temple or buried> > and> > > > so> > > > > on.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The upaya devised has to be correct and> > > > > effective.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This needs a very good understanding of> > the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > system and a very wide experience.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me explain this with an example :> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For Rahu placed in the Kendra houses, it> > is> > > > > advised> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that the upaya should be done of the> > planet> > > > > which> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gets exalted in that house.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, if the Rahu is placed in the> > 1st> > > > > house> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > and has been identified as malefic then> > > > surya> > > > > ka> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > upaya madadgar hoga. Now what should be> > the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > form of this surya ka upaya. Should we> > > > immerse> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks of the Sun in flowing water,> > or> > > > > should> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > we bury the karaks of the sun, or should> > we> > > > > offer> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks of the sun at a temple, or any> > > > other> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > form of upaya to be devised.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thankfully in this case it has been> > > >

indicated> > > > > that> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks of the Sun should be gifted> > at a> > > > > temple.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is done to strengthen the Sun so> > that he> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > could withstand the eclipsing ability of> > > > Rahu.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But for the same Rahu in the 10th house> > the> > > > > book> > > > > > > > says:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > khali mandir se rahu sota, tez swabhav> > manda> > > > ho> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mitra grah par keechad deta, upaya> > mangal ka> > > > > uttam>

> > > > > ho> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now in this case no indication has been> > > > given> > > > > as to> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what will be the form of mangal ka upaya,> > > > like> > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the case of Rahu in the 1st house> >

where> > > > > gifting> > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karaks of Sun has been indicated. Will> > > > gifting> > > > > the> > > > > > > > karaks> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of mangal at any temple be a correct> > upaya?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

If not, then what should be the form of> > the> > > > > upaya ?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A rahu placed in the 10th can not do any> > > > > damage to> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn but it will definitely harm the> > > > > > significations> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of the 10th house, be it a job

or name or> > > > fame.> > > > > > > > > > Therefore,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if the rahu is adjudged as malefic, then> > an> > > > > upaya> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will become necessary. So what would be> > the> > > > > form> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of the upaya. We know that mangal will> > help,> > > > > but in> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what form? It is the Lalkitabist who has> > to> > > > > decide> > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > form of the upaya.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the book says:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu ka manda asar teve wale par nahi> > hoga :> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jab mangal nek ho> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this case the Rahu has to be brought> > under> > > >

> > control> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > such that it is not able to damage the> > > > > > > > significations of> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 10th house. Since Mangal shubh alone> > can> > > > > control> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu therefore the karak of mangal shubh> > has> > > > > to be> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > established at home, keep at home a> > little> > > > > honey> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in a silver dibbi towards the west. This> > > > upaya> > > > > will> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > keep the belligerent Rahu under control.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now you know the difference. In one

case> > it> > > > is> > > > > > > > gifting> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks which would be an effective> > upaya> > > > > where> > > > > > as> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the next case it is establishing a> > karak> > > > > would be> > > > > > > > an> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > effective upaya.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore devising upaya is a science> > which a> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lalkitabist has to learn. It comes with> > time> > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > experience. That is why upaya suggested> > > > through> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > ready reckoners do not work.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > > --> > > Dr. Shiv Dev Kalsi,> > > Jyotish Rishi (AIFAS)> > > Consultant (Vedic Astrology)> > >> >> > > >> > > > -- > Dr. Shiv Dev Kalsi,> Jyotish Rishi (AIFAS)> Consultant (Vedic Astrology)>

June 25, 2008

Dear Mr. Shiv Dev Kalsi,

It seems as if I missed something in this discussion. Please! Which

statement given by Mr. Varun Trivedi did you find astonishing? And

which type of interpretation didn't you expect from him? Kindly elaborate!

Best regards,

Finn Wandahl

, " Shivdev Kalsi "

<shivdev.kalsi wrote:

>

> Dear Varun Ji,

>

> It is really very astonishing.I could not expect this type of

> interpretion from you.

>

> Yours

>

> Shiv Dev Kalsi

>

June 26, 2008

Dear Varun Ji,

Under the table of 'grahon ke bahami dosti dushmani' on page 31 Lk1952 which u yourself have mentioned further in the discussion, your kind attention is brought to the lines;

chander aur shukra barabar hain magar chander dushmani karta hai shukra se

chander aur budh dost hain magar chander dushmani karta hai budh se

magar khana no.2-4 men baitha hua budh ya chander dushmani ki bajai poori madad dega---maali madad ke liye

Regards and best wishes;

sincerely,

kiranjit

June 26, 2008

Respected Dr. Saheb,

Yes, I had read those lines. There is a misprint. The line should

read that shukra dushmani karata hai chandra se, similarly budh

dushmani karta hai chandra se.

Unless this correction is made the statement can not be reconciled

with what has been said in the table. Even otherwise through out the

book it is the venus and mercury which have been shown hostile to

the moon.

With great regards,

Varun Trivedi

, kiranjit kumar

<kapatjal wrote:

>

> Dear Varun Ji,

>

> Under the table of 'grahon ke bahami dosti dushmani' on page 31

Lk1952 which u yourself have mentioned further in the discussion,

your kind attention is brought to the lines;

>

> chander aur shukra barabar hain magar chander dushmani karta hai

shukra se

>

> chander aur budh dost hain magar chander dushmani karta hai budh

se

>

> magar khana no.2-4 men baitha hua budh ya chander dushmani ki

bajai poori madad dega---maali madad ke liye

>

> Regards and best wishes;

> sincerely,

> kiranjit

>

June 28, 2008

Respected Kalsi ji,

Thank you for your note. You continue with your understanding and we

with ours.

Regards,

Varun Trivedi

, " Shivdev Kalsi "

<shivdev.kalsi wrote:

>

> Dear Varun Ji,

> Your conception is

> [1] " Under the column uska dushman grah for moon, no planet is

mentioned as

> an enemy. It says 'ketu se grahan rahu se madhyam' "

>

> and

>

> [2] " The moon doesn't consider any planet as its enemy. But Mercury

and

> Venus both consider the moon as their enemy. Since both the

planets

> consider moon as the enemy, they are likely to adversely affect

the

> moon. "

>

> and

> [3] " There is a misprint. The line should read that shukra dushmani

karata

> hai chandra se, similarly budh dushmani karta hai chandra se. "

>

> ===============================================

> First of all your this conception gives signal that you are trying

to erase

> the very entity of the book just to satisfy your logics. I dont

know your

> perception of defining an enemy. As per your logic, A planet which

> eliminates the Moon by eclipsing it and destroy its signification

may be the

> friend of moon & Moon which is enemy of ketu may not consider Ketu

as its

> enemy even if it is written in the enemy column opposite moon. In

your words

> Moon is written in the same column opposite ketu then ketu is not

> considering the moon as it enemy. Mars is written in the same

column oppsite

> rahu therefore Rahu does not consider mars as its enemy. In my

view, It is

> your wrong perception .

> Look what have you written in [3]. You have declared that the

whole column

> no 4 of Page 31 is wrong and the writer had writtem this just to

befool the

> readers.

> To declare the contents of book as wrong to Justify yours own

> misunderstanding , is not called scientific approach. You have put

a

> question mark on whole theory of the book.

> Above is an astonishing part of your strategy/approach.

>

> The group must keep ourself to the contents of the book and do

research on

> it. I know your group is doing research on the book but not much

has been

> talked about the grammer portion and houses itself in the research

archives.

> More emphasis is given on remedies and more discussions are on

remedies

> resulting forced logics are being given and habit has been

developed to

> declare the contents of the book wrong whereever the mind failed

to find

> suitable answer.

>

> I totally reject and oppose your this strategy.

> Yours

>

> Shiv Dev Kalsi

>

> On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 10:47 PM, varun_trvd <varun_trvd

wrote:

>

> > Very respected Kalsi ji,

> >

> > Misinterpreting what?

> >

> > Relationship between the Lal Kitab and the traditional astrology

or

> > the planets the moon considers as its enemies.

> >

> > For the first it is a rational,calculated , well thoughtout and

> > planned stand we have taken. We do not care what others think

about

> > our stand.

> >

> > For the second, I have quoted the book. We interpret it as rahu

and

> > ketu might have hostile attitude towards the moon but the moon

> > doesn't have the attitude of hostility towards them.

> >

> > You could interpret it differently if you like. We do not have to

> > necessarily abide by your interpretation.

> >

> > With respect and naman,

> >

> > Varun Trivedi

> >

> > <%

40>,

> > " Shivdev Kalsi "

> > <shivdev.kalsi@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Varun Ji,

> > >

> > > It is really very astonishing.I could not expect this type of

> > > interpretion from you.

> > >

> > > Yours

> > >

> > > Shiv Dev Kalsi

> > >

> > > On 6/25/08, varun_trvd <varun_trvd@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Very respected Kalsi ji,

> > > >

> > > > We have publically declared through the preface of this group

> > that

> > > > we do not consider the Lal Kitab as different from

traditional

> > vedic

> > > > astrology. To us the Lal Kitab is a paddhati of traditional

vedic

> > > > astrology, it is a sub system of traditional vedic

astrology. We

> > do

> > > > not accept the Lal Kitab as a different system.

> > > >

> > > > Therefore we do not accept a term or a statement like '

mixing

> > Lal

> > > > Kitab with vedic astrology'

> > > >

> > > > Please go to page # 31 of 1952 urdu ed and see the table

given

> > for

> > > > friends and enemies of the planets.

> > > >

> > > > Under the column uska dushman grah for moon, no planet is

> > mentioned as an

> > > > enemy. It says 'ketu se grahan rahu se madhyam'

> > > >

> > > > Respect and naman,

> > > >

> > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > >

> > > > --- In

<%

40>

> > <%

> > 40>,

> > > > " Shivdev Kalsi "

> > > > <shivdev.kalsi@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Varun Ji,

> > > > > You are mixing traditional or so termed Vedic Astrology

rules

> > in

> > > > Lalkitab.

> > > > > May you elaborate little on you line

> > > > > " The moon doesn't consider any planet as its enemy " .

> > > > > I don't think these line exists in Lalkitab

> > > > > Yours

> > > > > Shiv Dev Kalsi

> > > > > On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 11:32 AM, varun_trvd <varun_trvd@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > > Aadarneeya Umesh ji,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The moon doesn't consider any planet as its enemy. But

> > Mercury

> > > > and

> > > > > > Venus both consider the moon as their enemy. Since both

the

> > > > planets

> > > > > > consider moon as the enemy, they are likely to adversely

> > affect

> > > > the

> > > > > > moon.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > With regards,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --- In

> > <%

40>

> > <%

> > 40>

> > > > <%

> > > > 40>,

> > > > > > " Umesh Sharma "

> > > > > > <mudit982001@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Respected Varun ji,

> > > > > > > You Say,

> > > > > > > For sun + mars the book says :

> > > > > > > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho

> > > > > > > This is simple to explain, have a look at what

> > > > > > > constitutes these two planets.

> > > > > > > Mars = sun + mercury

> > > > > > > Sun = mercury + venus

> > > > > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury

> > > > > > > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore

> > > > > > > it is natural that this combination will not be

> > > > > > > conducive for moon.

> > > > > > > MY QUESTION IS

> > > > > > > 1.HAS THE VENUS IS HAVING ENIMITY WITH MOON?

> > > > > > > 2.HAS THE MOON IS HAVING ENEMITY WITH MERCURY?

> > > > > > > REGARDS AND WITH ALL RESPECT

> > > > > > > UMESH SHARMA

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > -- In

> > <%

40>

> > <%

> > 40>

> > > > <%

> > > > 40>,

> > > > > > " varun_trvd "

> > > > > > > <varun_trvd@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Respected Umesh ji,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > My views on the issues you have raised.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > [ 1 ] Lal Kitab varshphal sarini :

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > In traditional vedic Jyotish there are quite a few

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > methods prevalent for working out the Varshphal

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > kundali. The Lal Kitab has suggested yet another

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > method. Therefore there is nothing unusual or

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > surprising about the method.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The major question is what could have been the

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > logic or the arithmetic applied to generate the

table.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > We know that unless there was some formula the

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > table could not have been generated. We do not

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > know the formula as yet. But sure one day the

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > formula would be known. Till such time the formula

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > used is found out, let us not treat the sarini as

some

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > thing super natural. There is nothing mystical or

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > super natural about it. It is an ordinary table;

there

> > are

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > hundreds of such tables used in the traditional

astrology

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > [ 2 ] For sun + mars the book says :

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > This is simple to explain, have a look at what

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > constitutes these two planets.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Mars = sun + mercury

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Sun = mercury + venus

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > it is natural that this combination will not be

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > conducive for moon.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > [ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says :

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Ketu mande ho madad guru ki, tilak kesar ka bhala

hota ho

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Here Jupiter is used to strengthen ketu. There is

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > nothing unusual in that. This is a very common

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used

for

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > strengthening another friendly planet.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > With great respect and regards,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > <%

40>

> > <%

> > 40>

> > > > <%

> > > > 40>,

> > > > > > " Umesh Sharma "

> > > > > > > > <mudit982001@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Respected Gill j]==[,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > There are so many other Terms which we are not

> > understand.

> > > > As

> > > > > > > example

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 1. What are the logic of Varshaphal Sarani?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 2. Why Moon is week or Manda when Sun and Mars are

> > combind?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 3. When Ketu in 3rd than why we do upay of Jupiter?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > So many other questions.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > because, i am a practioner astrologer and from

last 15

> > yrs

> > > > of

> > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > astrological life i use these terms as it is and

get

> > > > success.

> > > > > > So

> > > > > > > i

> > > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > no doubt. I think one bigger difference in you and

me

> > that

> > > > you

> > > > > > > are not

> > > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > professional astrologer but I am. I think

Astrology is

> > your

> > > > > > > Hobby but

> > > > > > > > > in my case it is my " Bread & Butter " so I have "

PURAN

> > > > SHARDHA "

> > > > > > on

> > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > book. I Discuss and understand the theory of Lal-

Kitab

> > from

> > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > > scholars,. As You, Sh. Vareun Trivedi ji, Sh.

Bhooshan

> > > > Priya

> > > > > > > ji,, Sh.

> > > > > > > > > Kulbeer ji, Sh. Yograj Prabhakar ji, Sh. Lalkitabi

ji,

> > Sh.

> > > > > > > > > L.K.Vashishath ji, Late Sh. B.R.Gupta ( My Father-

in-

> > Law).

> > > > No

> > > > > > > doubt,

> > > > > > > > > you are doing the good job in favour of Lal-kitab,

> > keep it

> > > > up.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Umesh Sharma

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > <%

40>

> > <%

> > 40>

> > > > <%

> > > > 40>,

> > > > > > " gill_hs2005 "

> > > > > > > > > gill_hs2005@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Sir umesh ji,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Agar budh itna taqatvar hai ki dono rahu aur

ketu ko

> > apne

> > > > > > > dayre mein

> > > > > > > > > > bandh kar rakh sakta hai, to rahu manda hone par

> > budh par

> > > > > > > parbhav

> > > > > > > > > > kaise padega? Jo taqat dono ko bandh kar rakh

sakti

> > hai

> > > > vah

> > > > > > > taqat

> > > > > > > > > > rahu aur ketu dono se badi huyee ki nahi. Apki

baat

> > se

> > > > yeh

> > > > > > > samajh

> > > > > > > > > > mein aya ki rahu aur ketu budh ke adheen hain na

ki

> > budh

> > > > in

> > > > > > > dono ke.

> > > > > > > > > > Jab budh rahu ketu ke adheen hi nahin hai to

rahu ya

> > > > ketu ke

> > > > > > > mande

> > > > > > > > > > hone ka asar budh par kaise ho sakta hai, yeh

baat

> > samajh

> > > > > > mein

> > > > > > > nahi

> > > > > > > > > > ayee.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Sincerely,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > HS Gill

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > <%

40>

> > <%

> > 40>

> > > > <%

> > > > 40>,

> > > > > > " Umesh Sharma "

> > > > > > > > > > mudit982001@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Respected Gill ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > " Rahu-Ketu jo Pap gine hain, Grah sab hi ko

> > ghumate

> > > > hain ,

> > > > > > > > > > > Guru Akela Do ko chalave, ghumtey par vo budh

main

> > > > hain "

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Umesh Sharma

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > <%

40>

> > <%

> > 40>

> > > > <%

> > > > 40>,

> > > > > > " gill_hs2005 "

> > > > > > > > > > > <gill_hs2005@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Sir Umesh Sharma ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. page no 386 Moon in 4th house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Manda asar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Note #3. Sar Fat jaye, Rahu ka manda asar

Budh

> > (

> > > > Budh

> > > > > > ki

> > > > > > > > > > > > Aashiyaan,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Karobaar ya Rishtedaar__ Mutlka budh) par

hoga

> > {

> > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > Khana #

> > > > > > > > > > 10}

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Agar chander 4 hai aur rahu 10 mein to budh

par

> > gaaz

> > > > > > kyon

> > > > > > > giri ?

> > > > > > > > > > > > budh ka talluk na to khana 4 se hai aur nahi

> > khana 10

> > > > > > se.

> > > > > > > budh

> > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > dono gharon mein bhi nahi hai to phir budh ki

> > ashiya,

> > > > > > > karobar ya

> > > > > > > > > > > > rishtedar par bura asar kaise padega?

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Sincerely,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > HS Gill

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > <%

40>

> > <%

> > 40>

> > > > <%

> > > > 40>,

> > > > > > " Umesh

> > > > > > Sharma "

> > > > > > > > > > > > mudit982001@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Sir,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Now there are two Statements in this

regards

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. page no 386 Moon in 4th house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Manda asar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Note #3. Sar Fat jaye, Rahu ka manda asar

Budh

> > (

> > > > Budh

> > > > > > ki

> > > > > > > > > > > > Aashiyaan,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Karobaar ya Rishtedaar__ Mutlka budh) par

hoga

> > {

> > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > Khana #

> > > > > > > > > > 10}

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. RAHU in house # 10 :

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1952 urdu ed : Page 680 ; note # 9

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Khyali dimagi dhuan bayas pareshani ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢

â€šÂ¬ "

> > dimagh

> > > > > > > > > > > > > phate ya sar kate ya nazar gum ho jave- aur

> > dhan

> > > > > > > > > > > > > daulat par bijli ki tarah manda asar hoga

> > > > > > > > > > > > > [ Chandra khana # 4 ]

> > > > > > > > > > > > > HOW TO DECIDE WHICH STATEMENT IS

APPLICABLE?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhai yograj ji ki baat bilkul sahi hey par

mere

> > > > hisab

> > > > > > se

> > > > > > > Grah

> > > > > > > > > > ka

> > > > > > > > > > > > Khana

> > > > > > > > > > > > > main akele bethe hone par honi chahiye.

Yahan

> > par

> > > > to

> > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > > Chandar

> > > > > > > > > > > > se

> > > > > > > > > > > > > drishat ho raha hey. May be i wrong.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > With

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Umesh Sharma

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > #1. Moon in 4th and rahu in 10th

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > > > <%

40>

> > <%

> > 40>

> > > > <%

> > > > 40>,

> > > > > > " varun_trvd "

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <varun_trvd@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Umesh ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > RAHU in house # 10 :

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1952 urdu ed : Page 680 ; note # 9

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Khyali dimagi dhuan bayas pareshani ÃƒÂ¢

Ã¢â€šÂ¬ "

> > dimagh

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > phate ya sar kate ya nazar gum ho jave-

aur

> > dhan

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > daulat par bijli ki tarah manda asar hoga

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > [ Chandra khana # 4 ]

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > While answering to Wandahl ji, the

context he

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > had asked me to explain from was Rahu in

the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. Therefore I had translated

the

> > above

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > lines from the book into English for my

> > answer.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > With great respect and regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > <%

40>

> > <%

> > 40>

> > > > <%

> > > > 40>,

> > > > > > " Umesh

> > > > > > > Sharma "

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > mudit982001@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Varun ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If Moon in 4th and Rahu in 10th the

result

> > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Sir Fat Jaye, Rahu ka bura asar Budh

(

> > Budh

> > > > ki

> > > > > > > > Aashiayan,

> > > > > > > > > > > > Karobaar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ya

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rishtedar mutlka Budh ) par hoga. "

page no

> > 388

> > > > > > > edi.1952,

> > > > > > > > > > > > chandrma

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Khana

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > no. 4, Mandi halat Term no. 3.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kyonki Rahu jab jab Chandrma se Drishat

> > hoga ya

> > > > > > > mushtrka

> > > > > > > > > > hoga

> > > > > > > > > > > > vah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Budh

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ko khrab karega.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gustakhi ki Kashma chahta hoon.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umesh Sharma

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > > > >

<%

40>

> > <%

> > 40>

> > > > <%

> > > > 40>,

> > > > > > " varun_trvd "

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > varun_trvd@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Wandahl saheb,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks for your response. It is

a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pleasure reading your views.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have asked ;

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th it is mentioned that Upay

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of Mars would be beneficial if there

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is also Moon in the 4th house. Do you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > know the reason for this? I think it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is difficult to grasp.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I understand basically it means

that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in case moon is in the 4th while the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is in the 10th then it would

result

> > in:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Foggy and unrealistic thoughts, brain

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > splitting agony, weak eyes,

diminished

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wealth.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you notice the areas most

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > affected are the karaks of the moon

and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the reason being that Rahu will have

an

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aspect on the moon.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If that happens then the Mars upaya

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > should be done

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with respect and regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > <%

40>

> > <%

> > 40>

> > > > <%

> > > > 40>,

> > > > > > " Finn

> > > > > > > > > > Wandahl "

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > finn.wandahl@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Mr. Varun Trivedi,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for this very inspirating

> > > > article on

> > > > > > > Upaya,

> > > > > > > > > > > > which I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > like

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > say a few things about. However, I

> > have a

> > > > > > rather

> > > > > > > > > > liberal

> > > > > > > > > > > > > approach

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Upaya as I consider the Upayas

> > mentioned in

> > > > > > Lal

> > > > > > > Kitab

> > > > > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > merely

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suggestions and guidelines meant to

> > > > stimulate

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > intuition,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > empathy

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and discriminative power of the

> > astrologer

> > > > to

> > > > > > > make him

> > > > > > > > > > > > create

> > > > > > > > > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > own

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > remedies depending upon the

> > circumstances,

> > > > > > time

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > place

> > > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > each

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > individual client.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have given Saturn in the 7th

house

> > as

> > > > an

> > > > > > > example.

> > > > > > > > > > But

> > > > > > > > > > > > > normally

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would perhaps not be much concerned

> > about

> > > > > > that.

> > > > > > > After

> > > > > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > > > > > it is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ucha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (exalted) and even if the 1st

house was

> > > > empty

> > > > > > > thus

> > > > > > > > > > making

> > > > > > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sleeping or dormant it would not

cause

> > too

> > > > > > much

> > > > > > > alarm

> > > > > > > > > > > > except

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > perhaps

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if Ketu was ahead of Saturn thereby

> > > > turning it

> > > > > > > > > > malefic. In

> > > > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > case

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > might even consider Ketu the

problem,

> > since

> > > > > > Ketu

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > what

> > > > > > > > > > > > made

> > > > > > > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn Malefic.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then you say something very

interesting

> > > > about

> > > > > > > Rahu in

> > > > > > > > > > > > kendras

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > where

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the planet that gets exalted in the

> > house

> > > > > > > occupied by

> > > > > > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > > > > > should

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > considered for Upay. However,

regarding

> > > > Rahu

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > first,

> > > > > > > > > > > > it is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > alreading said in Lal Kitab that

the

> > Sun

> > > > would

> > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > eclipsed, not

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun itself but the house occupied

by

> > the

> > > > Sun.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In annual charts, however, I have

often

> > > > had the

> > > > > > > > > > > > experience, that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > really the Sun itself that gets

> > eclipsed

> > > > and

> > > > > > > destroyed

> > > > > > > > > > > > when Rahu

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the first rather than the house

> > occupied by

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > Sun.

> > > > > > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > > > > coming

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 1st house can really destroy

the

> > rank

> > > > and

> > > > > > > position

> > > > > > > > > > of a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > person.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, the problem with Rahu in

the

> > 1st

> > > > in

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > context

> > > > > > > > > > > > of Upay

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that the Sun is both significator

of

> > the

> > > > first

> > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exalted

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there at the same time, and it make

> > little

> > > > > > > difference

> > > > > > > > > > if we

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > involve

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in Upay for one reason or the

other as

> > > > long as

> > > > > > > it is

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > same

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planet.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in

the

> > 10th

> > > > it

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > mentioned

> > > > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Upay

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of Mars would be beneficial if

there is

> > > > also

> > > > > > > Moon in

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > 4th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > house.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you know the reason for this? I

think

> > it is

> > > > > > > difficult

> > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > grasp.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then if Rahu was in the 7th house,

> > Saturn

> > > > > > would

> > > > > > > hardly

> > > > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > choice for remedy even though it is

> > exalted

> > > > > > > there. I

> > > > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > > > no

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > doubt

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > consider Venus first and perhaps

also

> > > > Mercury

> > > > > > if

> > > > > > > > > > daughters

> > > > > > > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sisters

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > were involved.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu in the 4th by itself should

not

> > be a

> > > > > > > problem as

> > > > > > > > > > it has

> > > > > > > > > > > > > takes

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > oath not to cause evil when alone

or

> > with

> > > > the

> > > > > > > Moon in

> > > > > > > > > > 4th

> > > > > > > > > > > > house.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > don't know if remedy of Jupiter

could

> > be

> > > > used

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > case

> > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > being

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > malefic in the 4th. I think Moon or

> > perhaps

> > > > > > > Saturn

> > > > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > > > be my

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > choice in such a case.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Finn Wandahl

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > > > > > > >

> > <%

40>

> > <%

> > 40>

> > > > <%

> > > > 40>,

> > > > > > " varun_trvd "

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > varun_trvd@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected members,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Devising the form of upaya:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lal Kitab 1952 urdu ed page 620

last

> > > > lines :

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn in the 7th house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Khand se bharkar bansari bahar

> > veerane

> > > > mein

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dabana mubarik, basharte ki

> > Shanishchar

> > > > soya

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > na ho; agar soya ho to shahad ke

> > bartan

> > > > ka

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > upaya madadgar hoga

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At the first reading it would

appear

> > > > that if

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn is not dormant [ soya hua]

> > then

> > > > bury

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a barren place a flute filled

with

> > desi

> > > > > > sugar [

> > > > > > > > > > khand ] ;

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if the Saturn is dormant then

bury a

> > pot

> > > > > > > filled with

> > > > > > > > > > > > honey.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But it is not so. That is not the

> > correct

> > > > > > > > > > understanding

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So much so a well known Lal Kitab

> > scholar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > made a slip when he wrote in his

> > book for

> > > > > > > Saturn in

> > > > > > > > > > 7th:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kisi bartan ko shahad se bharkar

> > bahar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dabane ka upaya sahayak hoga

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct upaya is to

establish at

> > > > home in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the south west corner a pot

filled

> > with

> > > > > > honey.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thus the correct upaya is

> > establishing

> > > > and

> > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > burying.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This has already been discussed

here

> > in

> > > > the

> > > > > > > group.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those who wish to read the logic

> > behind

> > > > > > > establishing

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can go to the archives and read.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I began by giving this example to

> > show

> > > > how

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > difficult it is to devise an

upaya

> > and

> > > > more

> > > > > > so

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > decide the form of upaya

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In most cases, the Lal Kitab

does not

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > explain the form of upaya to be

> > done. It

> > > > just

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suggests that the upaya for such-

n-

> > such

> > > > > > planet

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be done e.g. mangal ka upaya

madadgar

> > > > hoga.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This statement by itself is not

very

> > > > > > helpful.

> > > > > > > It is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the Lalkitabist who has to

decide the

> > > > form

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mangal ka upaya. He has to decide

> > > > whether the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karaks of mangal are to be

immersed

> > in

> > > > > > flowing

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > water, or gifted at a temple or

> > buried

> > > > and

> > > > > > so

> > > > > > > on.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The upaya devised has to be

correct

> > and

> > > > > > > effective.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This needs a very good

understanding

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > system and a very wide

experience.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me explain this with an

example :

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For Rahu placed in the Kendra

> > houses, it

> > > > is

> > > > > > > advised

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that the upaya should be done of

the

> > > > planet

> > > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gets exalted in that house.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, if the Rahu is placed

in

> > the

> > > > 1st

> > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and has been identified as

malefic

> > then

> > > > > > surya

> > > > > > > ka

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > upaya madadgar hoga. Now what

should

> > be

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > form of this surya ka upaya.

Should

> > we

> > > > > > immerse

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks of the Sun in flowing

> > water,

> > > > or

> > > > > > > should

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we bury the karaks of the sun, or

> > should

> > > > we

> > > > > > > offer

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks of the sun at a

temple,

> > or any

> > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > form of upaya to be devised.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thankfully in this case it has

been

> > > > > > indicated

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks of the Sun should be

> > gifted

> > > > at a

> > > > > > > temple.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is done to strengthen the

Sun so

> > > > that he

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > could withstand the eclipsing

> > ability of

> > > > > > Rahu.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But for the same Rahu in the 10th

> > house

> > > > the

> > > > > > > book

> > > > > > > > > > says:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > khali mandir se rahu sota, tez

> > swabhav

> > > > manda

> > > > > > ho

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mitra grah par keechad deta,

upaya

> > > > mangal ka

> > > > > > > uttam

> > > > > > > > ho

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now in this case no indication

has

> > been

> > > > > > given

> > > > > > > as to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what will be the form of mangal

ka

> > upaya,

> > > > > > like

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the case of Rahu in the 1st

house

> > > > where

> > > > > > > gifting

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karaks of Sun has been indicated.

> > Will

> > > > > > gifting

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > karaks

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of mangal at any temple be a

correct

> > > > upaya?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If not, then what should be the

form

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > > > upaya ?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A rahu placed in the 10th can

not do

> > any

> > > > > > > damage to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn but it will definitely

harm

> > the

> > > > > > > > significations

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of the 10th house, be it a job or

> > name or

> > > > > > fame.

> > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if the rahu is adjudged as

malefic,

> > then

> > > > an

> > > > > > > upaya

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will become necessary. So what

would

> > be

> > > > the

> > > > > > > form

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of the upaya. We know that mangal

> > will

> > > > help,

> > > > > > > but in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what form? It is the Lalkitabist

who

> > has

> > > > to

> > > > > > > decide

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > form of the upaya.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the book says:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu ka manda asar teve wale par

nahi

> > > > hoga :

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jab mangal nek ho

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this case the Rahu has to be

> > brought

> > > > under

> > > > > > > > control

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > such that it is not able to

damage

> > the

> > > > > > > > > > significations of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 10th house. Since Mangal

shubh

> > alone

> > > > can

> > > > > > > control

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu therefore the karak of

mangal

> > shubh

> > > > has

> > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > established at home, keep at

home a

> > > > little

> > > > > > > honey

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in a silver dibbi towards the

west.

> > This

> > > > > > upaya

> > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > keep the belligerent Rahu under

> > control.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now you know the difference. In

one

> > case

> > > > it

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > gifting

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks which would be an

> > effective

> > > > upaya

> > > > > > > where

> > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the next case it is

establishing a

> > > > karak

> > > > > > > would be

> > > > > > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > effective upaya.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore devising upaya is a

science

> > > > which a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lalkitabist has to learn. It

comes

> > with

> > > > time

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > experience. That is why upaya

> > suggested

> > > > > > through

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ready reckoners do not work.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > --

> > > > > Dr. Shiv Dev Kalsi,

> > > > > Jyotish Rishi (AIFAS)

> > > > > Consultant (Vedic Astrology)

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > --

> > > Dr. Shiv Dev Kalsi,

> > > Jyotish Rishi (AIFAS)

> > > Consultant (Vedic Astrology)

> > >

> >

>

> --

> Dr. Shiv Dev Kalsi,

> Jyotish Rishi (AIFAS)

> Consultant (Vedic Astrology)

>

June 28, 2008

Respected seniors,

I am a beggineer so I am just sharing my views to correct my mistakes.

I think that when planet 1 consideres planet 2 as his enemy, it does not always mean that 2 consideres 1 as enemy. So, the fact that ketu is an enemy of Moon does not mean Moon is an enemy of Ketu as well. If we study the Neelakantha myth, Moon is satisfied because Shri Visnu cut Rahu demon for taking Amrtut into head kai tail. So, Moon does not oppose Ketu anymor. While Ketu is against Moon.

Also, Lal Kitab says Moon ,when in Her house i.e. the fourth, all planets become benefic in the chart because Moon is their Mother. Whne the Mother is Ok , the children flourish

Please,forgive and correct my wrong ideas.

Dennis

From: varun_trvdDate: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 06:38:03 +0000LK discussion group Re:Devising the form of an upaya / Pt. Umesh Sharma ji

Respected Kalsi ji,Thank you for your note. You continue with your understanding and we with ours.Regards,Varun Trivedi , "Shivdev Kalsi" <shivdev.kalsi wrote:>> Dear Varun Ji,> Your conception is> [1]"Under the column uska dushman grah for moon, no planet is mentioned as> an enemy. It says 'ketu se grahan rahu se madhyam'"> > and> > [2]"The moon doesn't consider any planet as its enemy. But Mercury and> Venus both consider the moon as their enemy. Since both the planets> consider moon as the enemy, they are likely to adversely affect the> moon."> > and> [3]"There is a misprint. The line should read that shukra dushmani karata> hai chandra se, similarly budh dushmani karta hai chandra se. "> > ===============================================> First of all your this conception gives signal that you are trying to erase> the very entity of the book just to satisfy your logics. I dont know your> perception of defining an enemy. As per your logic, A planet which> eliminates the Moon by eclipsing it and destroy its signification may be the> friend of moon & Moon which is enemy of ketu may not consider Ketu as its> enemy even if it is written in the enemy column opposite moon. In your words> Moon is written in the same column opposite ketu then ketu is not> considering the moon as it enemy. Mars is written in the same column oppsite> rahu therefore Rahu does not consider mars as its enemy. In my view, It is> your wrong perception .> Look what have you written in [3]. You have declared that the whole column> no 4 of Page 31 is wrong and the writer had writtem this just to befool the> readers.> To declare the contents of book as wrong to Justify yours own> misunderstanding , is not called scientific approach. You have put a> question mark on whole theory of the book.> Above is an astonishing part of your strategy/approach.> > The group must keep ourself to the contents of the book and do research on> it. I know your group is doing research on the book but not much has been> talked about the grammer portion and houses itself in the research archives.> More emphasis is given on remedies and more discussions are on remedies> resulting forced logics are being given and habit has been developed to> declare the contents of the book wrong whereever the mind failed to find> suitable answer.> > I totally reject and oppose your this strategy.> Yours> > Shiv Dev Kalsi> > On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 10:47 PM, varun_trvd <varun_trvd wrote:> > > Very respected Kalsi ji,> >> > Misinterpreting what?> >> > Relationship between the Lal Kitab and the traditional astrology or> > the planets the moon considers as its enemies.> >> > For the first it is a rational,calculated , well thoughtout and> > planned stand we have taken. We do not care what others think about> > our stand.> >> > For the second, I have quoted the book. We interpret it as rahu and> > ketu might have hostile attitude towards the moon but the moon> > doesn't have the attitude of hostility towards them.> >> > You could interpret it differently if you like. We do not have to> > necessarily abide by your interpretation.> >> > With respect and naman,> >> >> > Varun Trivedi> >> > <%40>,> > "Shivdev Kalsi"> > <shivdev.kalsi@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Varun Ji,> > >> > > It is really very astonishing.I could not expect this type of> > > interpretion from you.> > >> > > Yours> > >> > > Shiv Dev Kalsi> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > On 6/25/08, varun_trvd <varun_trvd@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Very respected Kalsi ji,> > > >> > > > We have publically declared through the preface of this group> > that> > > > we do not consider the Lal Kitab as different from traditional> > vedic> > > > astrology. To us the Lal Kitab is a paddhati of traditional vedic> > > > astrology, it is a sub system of traditional vedic astrology. We> > do> > > > not accept the Lal Kitab as a different system.> > > >> > > > Therefore we do not accept a term or a statement like ' mixing> > Lal> > > > Kitab with vedic astrology'> > > >> > > > Please go to page # 31 of 1952 urdu ed and see the table given> > for> > > > friends and enemies of the planets.> > > >> > > > Under the column uska dushman grah for moon, no planet is> > mentioned as an> > > > enemy. It says 'ketu se grahan rahu se madhyam'> > > >> > > > Respect and naman,> > > >> > > > Varun Trivedi> > > >> > > > <%40>> > <%> > 40>,> > > > "Shivdev Kalsi"> > > > <shivdev.kalsi@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Varun Ji,> > > > > You are mixing traditional or so termed Vedic Astrology rules> > in> > > > Lalkitab.> > > > > May you elaborate little on you line> > > > > "The moon doesn't consider any planet as its enemy".> > > > > I don't think these line exists in Lalkitab> > > > > Yours> > > > > Shiv Dev Kalsi> > > > > On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 11:32 AM, varun_trvd <varun_trvd@>> > > > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > > Aadarneeya Umesh ji,> > > > > >> > > > > > The moon doesn't consider any planet as its enemy. But> > Mercury> > > > and> > > > > > Venus both consider the moon as their enemy. Since both the> > > > planets> > > > > > consider moon as the enemy, they are likely to adversely> > affect> > > > the> > > > > > moon.> > > > > >> > > > > > With regards,> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Varun Trivedi> > > > > >> > > > > > --- In> > <%40>> > <%> > 40>> > > > <%> > > > 40>,> > > > > > "Umesh Sharma"> > > > > > <mudit982001@> wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Respected Varun ji,> > > > > > > You Say,> > > > > > > For sun + mars the book says :> > > > > > > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho> > > > > > > This is simple to explain, have a look at what> > > > > > > constitutes these two planets.> > > > > > > Mars = sun + mercury> > > > > > > Sun = mercury + venus> > > > > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury> > > > > > > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore> > > > > > > it is natural that this combination will not be> > > > > > > conducive for moon.> > > > > > > MY QUESTION IS> > > > > > > 1.HAS THE VENUS IS HAVING ENIMITY WITH MOON?> > > > > > > 2.HAS THE MOON IS HAVING ENEMITY WITH MERCURY?> > > > > > > REGARDS AND WITH ALL RESPECT> > > > > > > UMESH SHARMA> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > -- In> > <%40>> > <%> > 40>> > > > <%> > > > 40>,> > > > > > "varun_trvd"> > > > > > > <varun_trvd@> wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Respected Umesh ji,> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > My views on the issues you have raised.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > [ 1 ] Lal Kitab varshphal sarini :> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > In traditional vedic Jyotish there are quite a few> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > methods prevalent for working out the Varshphal> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > kundali. The Lal Kitab has suggested yet another> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > method. Therefore there is nothing unusual or> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > surprising about the method.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > The major question is what could have been the> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > logic or the arithmetic applied to generate the table.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > We know that unless there was some formula the> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > table could not have been generated. We do not> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > know the formula as yet. But sure one day the> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > formula would be known. Till such time the formula> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > used is found out, let us not treat the sarini as some> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > thing super natural. There is nothing mystical or> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > super natural about it. It is an ordinary table; there> > are> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > hundreds of such tables used in the traditional astrology> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > [ 2 ] For sun + mars the book says :> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > This is simple to explain, have a look at what> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > constitutes these two planets.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Mars = sun + mercury> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Sun = mercury + venus> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > it is natural that this combination will not be> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > conducive for moon.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > [ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says :> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Ketu mande ho madad guru ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Here Jupiter is used to strengthen ketu. There is> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > nothing unusual in that. This is a very common> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > strengthening another friendly planet.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > With great respect and regards,> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > --- In> > > > <%40>> > <%> > 40>> > > > <%> > > > 40>,> > > > > > "Umesh Sharma"> > > > > > > > <mudit982001@> wrote:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Respected Gill j]==[,> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > There are so many other Terms which we are not> > understand.> > > > As> > > > > > > example> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > 1. What are the logic of Varshaphal Sarani?> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > 2. Why Moon is week or Manda when Sun and Mars are> > combind?> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > 3. When Ketu in 3rd than why we do upay of Jupiter?> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > So many other questions.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > because, i am a practioner astrologer and from last 15> > yrs> > > > of> > > > > > my> > > > > > > > > astrological life i use these terms as it is and get> > > > success.> > > > > > So> > > > > > > i> > > > > > > > have> > > > > > > > > no doubt. I think one bigger difference in you and me> > that> > > > you> > > > > > > are not> > > > > > > > a> > > > > > > > > professional astrologer but I am. I think Astrology is> > your> > > > > > > Hobby but> > > > > > > > > in my case it is my "Bread & Butter" so I have " PURAN> > > > SHARDHA"> > > > > > on> > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > > book. I Discuss and understand the theory of Lal-Kitab> > from> > > > > > other> > > > > > > > > scholars,. As You, Sh. Vareun Trivedi ji, Sh. Bhooshan> > > > Priya> > > > > > > ji,, Sh.> > > > > > > > > Kulbeer ji, Sh. Yograj Prabhakar ji, Sh. Lalkitabi ji,> > Sh.> > > > > > > > > L.K.Vashishath ji, Late Sh. B.R.Gupta ( My Father-in-> > Law).> > > > No> > > > > > > doubt,> > > > > > > > > you are doing the good job in favour of Lal-kitab,> > keep it> > > > up.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Regards> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Umesh Sharma> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > --- In> > > > <%40>> > <%> > 40>> > > > <%> > > > 40>,> > > > > > "gill_hs2005"> > > > > > > > > gill_hs2005@ wrote:> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Sir umesh ji,> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Agar budh itna taqatvar hai ki dono rahu aur ketu ko> > apne> > > > > > > dayre mein> > > > > > > > > > bandh kar rakh sakta hai, to rahu manda hone par> > budh par> > > > > > > parbhav> > > > > > > > > > kaise padega? Jo taqat dono ko bandh kar rakh sakti> > hai> > > > vah> > > > > > > taqat> > > > > > > > > > rahu aur ketu dono se badi huyee ki nahi. Apki baat> > se> > > > yeh> > > > > > > samajh> > > > > > > > > > mein aya ki rahu aur ketu budh ke adheen hain na ki> > budh> > > > in> > > > > > > dono ke.> > > > > > > > > > Jab budh rahu ketu ke adheen hi nahin hai to rahu ya> > > > ketu ke> > > > > > > mande> > > > > > > > > > hone ka asar budh par kaise ho sakta hai, yeh baat> > samajh> > > > > > mein> > > > > > > nahi> > > > > > > > > > ayee.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Sincerely,> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > HS Gill> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > --- In> > > > <%40>> > <%> > 40>> > > > <%> > > > 40>,> > > > > > "Umesh Sharma"> > > > > > > > > > mudit982001@ wrote:> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Respected Gill ji,> > > > > > > > > > > " Rahu-Ketu jo Pap gine hain, Grah sab hi ko> > ghumate> > > > hain ,> > > > > > > > > > > Guru Akela Do ko chalave, ghumtey par vo budh main> > > > hain"> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Regards> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Umesh Sharma> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > --- In> > > > <%40>> > <%> > 40>> > > > <%> > > > 40>,> > > > > > "gill_hs2005"> > > > > > > > > > > <gill_hs2005@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Sir Umesh Sharma ji,> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. page no 386 Moon in 4th house> > > > > > > > > > > > > Manda asar> > > > > > > > > > > > > Note #3. Sar Fat jaye, Rahu ka manda asar Budh> > (> > > > Budh> > > > > > ki> > > > > > > > > > > > Aashiyaan,> > > > > > > > > > > > > Karobaar ya Rishtedaar__ Mutlka budh) par hoga> > {> > > > Rahu> > > > > > > Khana #> > > > > > > > > > 10}> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Agar chander 4 hai aur rahu 10 mein to budh par> > gaaz> > > > > > kyon> > > > > > > giri ?> > > > > > > > > > > > budh ka talluk na to khana 4 se hai aur nahi> > khana 10> > > > > > se.> > > > > > > budh> > > > > > > > in> > > > > > > > > > > > dono gharon mein bhi nahi hai to phir budh ki> > ashiya,> > > > > > > karobar ya> > > > > > > > > > > > rishtedar par bura asar kaise padega?> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Sincerely,> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > HS Gill> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In> > > > <%40>> > <%> > 40>> > > > <%> > > > 40>,> > > > > > "Umesh> > > > > > Sharma"> > > > > > > > > > > > mudit982001@ wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Sir,> > > > > > > > > > > > > Now there are two Statements in this regards> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. page no 386 Moon in 4th house> > > > > > > > > > > > > Manda asar> > > > > > > > > > > > > Note #3. Sar Fat jaye, Rahu ka manda asar Budh> > (> > > > Budh> > > > > > ki> > > > > > > > > > > > Aashiyaan,> > > > > > > > > > > > > Karobaar ya Rishtedaar__ Mutlka budh) par hoga> > {> > > > Rahu> > > > > > > Khana #> > > > > > > > > > 10}> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. RAHU in house # 10 :> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1952 urdu ed : Page 680 ; note # 9> > > > > > > > > > > > > Khyali dimagi dhuan bayas pareshani ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬"> > dimagh> > > > > > > > > > > > > phate ya sar kate ya nazar gum ho jave- aur> > dhan> > > > > > > > > > > > > daulat par bijli ki tarah manda asar hoga> > > > > > > > > > > > > [ Chandra khana # 4 ]> > > > > > > > > > > > > HOW TO DECIDE WHICH STATEMENT IS APPLICABLE?> > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhai yograj ji ki baat bilkul sahi hey par mere> > > > hisab> > > > > > se> > > > > > > Grah> > > > > > > > > > ka> > > > > > > > > > > > Khana> > > > > > > > > > > > > main akele bethe hone par honi chahiye. Yahan> > par> > > > to> > > > > > Rahu> > > > > > > > > > Chandar> > > > > > > > > > > > se> > > > > > > > > > > > > drishat ho raha hey. May be i wrong.> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > With> > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Umesh Sharma> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > #1. Moon in 4th and rahu in 10th> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In> > > > > > <%40>> > <%> > 40>> > > > <%> > > > 40>,> > > > > > "varun_trvd"> > > > > > > > > > > > > <varun_trvd@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Umesh ji,> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > RAHU in house # 10 :> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1952 urdu ed : Page 680 ; note # 9> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Khyali dimagi dhuan bayas pareshani ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬"> > dimagh> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > phate ya sar kate ya nazar gum ho jave- aur> > dhan> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > daulat par bijli ki tarah manda asar hoga> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > [ Chandra khana # 4 ]> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > While answering to Wandahl ji, the context he> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > had asked me to explain from was Rahu in the> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. Therefore I had translated the> > above> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > lines from the book into English for my> > answer.> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > With great respect and regards,> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In> > > > <%40>> > <%> > 40>> > > > <%> > > > 40>,> > > > > > "Umesh> > > > > > > Sharma"> > > > > > > > > > > > > > mudit982001@ wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Varun ji,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If Moon in 4th and Rahu in 10th the result> > is> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Sir Fat Jaye, Rahu ka bura asar Budh (> > Budh> > > > ki> > > > > > > > Aashiayan,> > > > > > > > > > > > Karobaar> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ya> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rishtedar mutlka Budh ) par hoga." page no> > 388> > > > > > > edi.1952,> > > > > > > > > > > > chandrma> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Khana> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > no. 4, Mandi halat Term no. 3.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kyonki Rahu jab jab Chandrma se Drishat> > hoga ya> > > > > > > mushtrka> > > > > > > > > > hoga> > > > > > > > > > > > vah> > > > > > > > > > > > > Budh> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ko khrab karega.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gustakhi ki Kashma chahta hoon.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umesh Sharma> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In> > > > > > > <%40>> > <%> > 40>> > > > <%> > > > 40>,> > > > > > "varun_trvd"> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > varun_trvd@ wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Wandahl saheb,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks for your response. It is a> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pleasure reading your views.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have asked ;> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th it is mentioned that Upay> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of Mars would be beneficial if there> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is also Moon in the 4th house. Do you> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > know the reason for this? I think it> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is difficult to grasp.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I understand basically it means that> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in case moon is in the 4th while the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is in the 10th then it would result> > in:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Foggy and unrealistic thoughts, brain> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > splitting agony, weak eyes, diminished> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wealth.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you notice the areas most> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > affected are the karaks of the moon and> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the reason being that Rahu will have an> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aspect on the moon.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If that happens then the Mars upaya> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > should be done> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with respect and regards,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In> > > > <%40>> > <%> > 40>> > > > <%> > > > 40>,> > > > > > "Finn> > > > > > > > > > Wandahl"> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > finn.wandahl@ wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Mr. Varun Trivedi,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for this very inspirating> > > > article on> > > > > > > Upaya,> > > > > > > > > > > > which I> > > > > > > > > > > > > like> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > say a few things about. However, I> > have a> > > > > > rather> > > > > > > > > > liberal> > > > > > > > > > > > > approach> > > > > > > > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Upaya as I consider the Upayas> > mentioned in> > > > > > Lal> > > > > > > Kitab> > > > > > > > > > to be> > > > > > > > > > > > > merely> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suggestions and guidelines meant to> > > > stimulate> > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > intuition,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > empathy> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and discriminative power of the> > astrologer> > > > to> > > > > > > make him> > > > > > > > > > > > create> > > > > > > > > > > > > his> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > own> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > remedies depending upon the> > circumstances,> > > > > > time> > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > place> > > > > > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > > > > > each> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > individual client.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have given Saturn in the 7th house> > as> > > > an> > > > > > > example.> > > > > > > > > > But> > > > > > > > > > > > > normally> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would perhaps not be much concerned> > about> > > > > > that.> > > > > > > After> > > > > > > > > > all> > > > > > > > > > > > it is> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ucha> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (exalted) and even if the 1st house was> > > > empty> > > > > > > thus> > > > > > > > > > making> > > > > > > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sleeping or dormant it would not cause> > too> > > > > > much> > > > > > > alarm> > > > > > > > > > > > except> > > > > > > > > > > > > > perhaps> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if Ketu was ahead of Saturn thereby> > > > turning it> > > > > > > > > > malefic. In> > > > > > > > > > > > that> > > > > > > > > > > > > > case> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > might even consider Ketu the problem,> > since> > > > > > Ketu> > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > > what> > > > > > > > > > > > made> > > > > > > > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn Malefic.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then you say something very interesting> > > > about> > > > > > > Rahu in> > > > > > > > > > > > kendras> > > > > > > > > > > > > > where> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the planet that gets exalted in the> > house> > > > > > > occupied by> > > > > > > > > > Rahu> > > > > > > > > > > > > should> > > > > > > > > > > > > > be> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > considered for Upay. However, regarding> > > > Rahu> > > > > > in> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > first,> > > > > > > > > > > > it is> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > alreading said in Lal Kitab that the> > Sun> > > > would> > > > > > be> > > > > > > > > > > > eclipsed, not> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun itself but the house occupied by> > the> > > > Sun.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In annual charts, however, I have often> > > > had the> > > > > > > > > > > > experience, that> > > > > > > > > > > > > > it> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > really the Sun itself that gets> > eclipsed> > > > and> > > > > > > destroyed> > > > > > > > > > > > when Rahu> > > > > > > > > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the first rather than the house> > occupied by> > > > > > the> > > > > > > Sun.> > > > > > > > > > Rahu> > > > > > > > > > > > coming> > > > > > > > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 1st house can really destroy the> > rank> > > > and> > > > > > > position> > > > > > > > > > of a> > > > > > > > > > > > > > person.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, the problem with Rahu in the> > 1st> > > > in> > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > context> > > > > > > > > > > > of Upay> > > > > > > > > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that the Sun is both significator of> > the> > > > first> > > > > > > house> > > > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > > > also> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exalted> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there at the same time, and it make> > little> > > > > > > difference> > > > > > > > > > if we> > > > > > > > > > > > > > involve> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in Upay for one reason or the other as> > > > long as> > > > > > > it is> > > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > same> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planet.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the> > 10th> > > > it> > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > > mentioned> > > > > > > > > > > > that> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Upay> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of Mars would be beneficial if there is> > > > also> > > > > > > Moon in> > > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > 4th> > > > > > > > > > > > > > house.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you know the reason for this? I think> > it is> > > > > > > difficult> > > > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > > grasp.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then if Rahu was in the 7th house,> > Saturn> > > > > > would> > > > > > > hardly> > > > > > > > > > be> > > > > > > > > > > > my> > > > > > > > > > > > > first> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > choice for remedy even though it is> > exalted> > > > > > > there. I> > > > > > > > > > would> > > > > > > > > > > > no> > > > > > > > > > > > > > doubt> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > consider Venus first and perhaps also> > > > Mercury> > > > > > if> > > > > > > > > > daughters> > > > > > > > > > > > or> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sisters> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > were involved.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu in the 4th by itself should not> > be a> > > > > > > problem as> > > > > > > > > > it has> > > > > > > > > > > > > takes> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > oath not to cause evil when alone or> > with> > > > the> > > > > > > Moon in> > > > > > > > > > 4th> > > > > > > > > > > > house.> > > > > > > > > > > > > I> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > don't know if remedy of Jupiter could> > be> > > > used> > > > > > in> > > > > > > case> > > > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu> > > > > > > > > > > > > > being> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > malefic in the 4th. I think Moon or> > perhaps> > > > > > > Saturn> > > > > > > > > > would> > > > > > > > > > > > be my> > > > > > > > > > > > > > first> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > choice in such a case.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Finn Wandahl> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In> > > > > > > > > >> > <%40>> > <%> > 40>> > > > <%> > > > 40>,> > > > > > "varun_trvd"> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > varun_trvd@ wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected members,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Devising the form of upaya:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lal Kitab 1952 urdu ed page 620 last> > > > lines :> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn in the 7th house> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Khand se bharkar bansari bahar> > veerane> > > > mein> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dabana mubarik, basharte ki> > Shanishchar> > > > soya> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > na ho; agar soya ho to shahad ke> > bartan> > > > ka> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > upaya madadgar hoga> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At the first reading it would appear> > > > that if> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn is not dormant [ soya hua]> > then> > > > bury> > > > > > in> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a barren place a flute filled with> > desi> > > > > > sugar [> > > > > > > > > > khand ] ;> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if the Saturn is dormant then bury a> > pot> > > > > > > filled with> > > > > > > > > > > > honey.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But it is not so. That is not the> > correct> > > > > > > > > > understanding> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So much so a well known Lal Kitab> > scholar> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > made a slip when he wrote in his> > book for> > > > > > > Saturn in> > > > > > > > > > 7th:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kisi bartan ko shahad se bharkar> > bahar> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dabane ka upaya sahayak hoga> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct upaya is to establish at> > > > home in> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the south west corner a pot filled> > with> > > > > > honey.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thus the correct upaya is> > establishing> > > > and> > > > > > not> > > > > > > > > > burying.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This has already been discussed here> > in> > > > the> > > > > > > group.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those who wish to read the logic> > behind> > > > > > > establishing> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can go to the archives and read.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I began by giving this example to> > show> > > > how> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > difficult it is to devise an upaya> > and> > > > more> > > > > > so> > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > decide the form of upaya> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In most cases, the Lal Kitab does not> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > explain the form of upaya to be> > done. It> > > > just> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suggests that the upaya for such-n-> > such> > > > > > planet> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be done e.g. mangal ka upaya madadgar> > > > hoga.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This statement by itself is not very> > > > > > helpful.> > > > > > > It is> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the Lalkitabist who has to decide the> > > > form> > > > > > of> > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mangal ka upaya. He has to decide> > > > whether the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karaks of mangal are to be immersed> > in> > > > > > flowing> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > water, or gifted at a temple or> > buried> > > > and> > > > > > so> > > > > > > on.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The upaya devised has to be correct> > and> > > > > > > effective.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This needs a very good understanding> > of> > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > system and a very wide experience.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me explain this with an example :> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For Rahu placed in the Kendra> > houses, it> > > > is> > > > > > > advised> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that the upaya should be done of the> > > > planet> > > > > > > which> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gets exalted in that house.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, if the Rahu is placed in> > the> > > > 1st> > > > > > > house> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and has been identified as malefic> > then> > > > > > surya> > > > > > > ka> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > upaya madadgar hoga. Now what should> > be> > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > form of this surya ka upaya. Should> > we> > > > > > immerse> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks of the Sun in flowing> > water,> > > > or> > > > > > > should> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we bury the karaks of the sun, or> > should> > > > we> > > > > > > offer> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks of the sun at a temple,> > or any> > > > > > other> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > form of upaya to be devised.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thankfully in this case it has been> > > > > > indicated> > > > > > > that> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks of the Sun should be> > gifted> > > > at a> > > > > > > temple.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is done to strengthen the Sun so> > > > that he> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > could withstand the eclipsing> > ability of> > > > > > Rahu.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But for the same Rahu in the 10th> > house> > > > the> > > > > > > book> > > > > > > > > > says:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > khali mandir se rahu sota, tez> > swabhav> > > > manda> > > > > > ho> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mitra grah par keechad deta, upaya> > > > mangal ka> > > > > > > uttam> > > > > > > > ho> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now in this case no indication has> > been> > > > > > given> > > > > > > as to> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what will be the form of mangal ka> > upaya,> > > > > > like> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the case of Rahu in the 1st house> > > > where> > > > > > > gifting> > > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karaks of Sun has been indicated.> > Will> > > > > > gifting> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > karaks> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of mangal at any temple be a correct> > > > upaya?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If not, then what should be the form> > of> > > > the> > > > > > > upaya ?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A rahu placed in the 10th can not do> > any> > > > > > > damage to> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn but it will definitely harm> > the> > > > > > > > significations> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of the 10th house, be it a job or> > name or> > > > > > fame.> > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if the rahu is adjudged as malefic,> > then> > > > an> > > > > > > upaya> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will become necessary. So what would> > be> > > > the> > > > > > > form> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of the upaya. We know that mangal> > will> > > > help,> > > > > > > but in> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what form? It is the Lalkitabist who> > has> > > > to> > > > > > > decide> > > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > form of the upaya.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the book says:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu ka manda asar teve wale par nahi> > > > hoga :> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jab mangal nek ho> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this case the Rahu has to be> > brought> > > > under> > > > > > > > control> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > such that it is not able to damage> > the> > > > > > > > > > significations of> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 10th house. Since Mangal shubh> > alone> > > > can> > > > > > > control> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu therefore the karak of mangal> > shubh> > > > has> > > > > > > to be> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > established at home, keep at home a> > > > little> > > > > > > honey> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in a silver dibbi towards the west.> > This> > > > > > upaya> > > > > > > will> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > keep the belligerent Rahu under> > control.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now you know the difference. In one> > case> > > > it> > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > > gifting> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks which would be an> > effective> > > > upaya> > > > > > > where> > > > > > > > as> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the next case it is establishing a> > > > karak> > > > > > > would be> > > > > > > > > > an> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > effective upaya.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore devising upaya is a science> > > > which a> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lalkitabist has to learn. It comes> > with> > > > time> > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > experience. That is why upaya> > suggested> > > > > > through> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ready reckoners do not work.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > --> > > > > Dr. Shiv Dev Kalsi,> > > > > Jyotish Rishi (AIFAS)> > > > > Consultant (Vedic Astrology)> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > > --> > > Dr. Shiv Dev Kalsi,> > > Jyotish Rishi (AIFAS)> > > Consultant (Vedic Astrology)> > >> >> > > >> > > > -- > Dr. Shiv Dev Kalsi,> Jyotish Rishi (AIFAS)> Consultant (Vedic Astrology)> Discover the new Windows Vista Learn more!

June 28, 2008

Respected Dionisios ji

Just to add to what you have said :

The table for friendship and enmity between

the planets does not mention any planet as an

enemy of the moon. It says that the ketu will

eclipse it and the Rahu will make it `madhyam'

[ partial eclipse ].

We interpret it as that the Rahu and the Ketu

have a hostile attitude towards the moon. This

necessarily does not mean that the moon also

has a hostile attitude towards them.

1942 urdu ed page 319 line # 23-25

Rahu ketu jab Chandra ke saath kisi bhi ghar

ya khana # 4 mein hon to aisa teva dharmi teva

hoga, jisme papi grahon ka manda asar na hoga

balki baqi tamam grah bhi dharmi honge

{when ever rahu and ketu are with the moon, in

which ever house or house # 4, then such a

horoscope will be considered as a pious

horoscope; in which the effect of papi [ evil ]

planets will not be manda [ malefic ]; not only

that but the rest of the planets will also be pious }

Now had they been mutual enemies then the

horoscope would have been considered as

afflicted and not as a pious horoscope.

This reminds me of another very beautiful,

sensitive and a subtle image used by Pandit

Rup Chandji to describe the influence of

Ketu on the moon :

1952 urdu ed : page 849 , line # 11

Mata Chandra ek dharmatma hoti huyee bhi

badnam aurat nazar ayegee.

[ mother moon although virtuous and pious

would appear to be an infamous lady ]

I just wanted to share this line to show that

the moon might appear to be affected , but in

reality it is not. That is how the Mother moon

has been interpreted by Pandit ji. Even the evil

planets have not been able to change the nature

of the Mother moon. What happens is just an

appearance, and not the reality.

Regards,

Varun Trivedi

, Dionisios Vourtsis <mprgrandmaster wrote:>> Respected seniors,> I am a beggineer so I am just sharing my views to correct my mistakes.> I think that when planet 1 consideres planet 2 as his enemy, it does not always mean that 2 consideres 1 as enemy. So, the fact that ketu is an enemy of Moon does not mean Moon is an enemy of Ketu as well. If we study the Neelakantha myth, Moon is satisfied because Shri Visnu cut Rahu demon for taking Amrtut into head kai tail. So, Moon does not oppose Ketu anymor. While Ketu is against Moon.> Also, Lal Kitab says Moon ,when in Her house i.e. the fourth, all planets become benefic in the chart because Moon is their Mother. Whne the Mother is Ok , the children flourish> Please,forgive and correct my wrong ideas.> Dennis> > > : varun_trvd: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 06:38:03 +0000LK discussion group Re:Devising the form of an upaya / Pt. Umesh Sharma ji> > > > > Respected Kalsi ji,Thank you for your note. You continue with your understanding and we with ours.Regards,Varun Trivedi , "Shivdev Kalsi" shivdev.kalsi@ wrote:>> Dear Varun Ji,> Your conception is> [1]"Under the column uska dushman grah for moon, no planet is mentioned as> an enemy. It says 'ketu se grahan rahu se madhyam'"> > and> > [2]"The moon doesn't consider any planet as its enemy. But Mercury and> Venus both consider the moon as their enemy. Since both the planets> consider moon as the enemy, they are likely to adversely affect the> moon."> > and> [3]"There is a misprint. The line should read that shukra dushmani karata> hai chandra se, similarly budh dushmani karta hai chandra se. "> > ===============================================> First of all your this conception gives signal that you are trying to erase> the very entity of the book just to satisfy your logics. I dont know your> perception of defining an enemy. As per your logic, A planet which> eliminates the Moon by eclipsing it and destroy its signification may be the> friend of moon & Moon which is enemy of ketu may not consider Ketu as its> enemy even if it is written in the enemy column opposite moon. In your words> Moon is written in the same column opposite ketu then ketu is not> considering the moon as it enemy. Mars is written in the same column oppsite> rahu therefore Rahu does not consider mars as its enemy. In my view, It is> your wrong perception .> Look what have you written in [3]. You have declared that the whole column> no 4 of Page 31 is wrong and the writer had writtem this just to befool the> readers.> To declare the contents of book as wrong to Justify yours own> misunderstanding , is not called scientific approach. You have put a> question mark on whole theory of the book.> Above is an astonishing part of your strategy/approach.> > The group must keep ourself to the contents of the book and do research on> it. I know your group is doing research on the book but not much has been> talked about the grammer portion and houses itself in the research archives.> More emphasis is given on remedies and more discussions are on remedies> resulting forced logics are being given and habit has been developed to> declare the contents of the book wrong whereever the mind failed to find> suitable answer.> > I totally reject and oppose your this strategy.> Yours> > Shiv Dev Kalsi> > On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 10:47 PM, varun_trvd varun_trvd@ wrote:> > > Very respected Kalsi ji,> >> > Misinterpreting what?> >> > Relationship between the Lal Kitab and the traditional astrology or> > the planets the moon considers as its enemies.> >> > For the first it is a rational,calculated , well thoughtout and> > planned stand we have taken. We do not care what others think about> > our stand.> >> > For the second, I have quoted the book. We interpret it as rahu and> > ketu might have hostile attitude towards the moon but the moon> > doesn't have the attitude of hostility towards them.> >> > You could interpret it differently if you like. We do not have to> > necessarily abide by your interpretation.> >> > With respect and naman,> >> >> > Varun Trivedi> >> > <%40>,> > "Shivdev Kalsi"> > <shivdev.kalsi@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Varun Ji,> > >> > > It is really very astonishing.I could not expect this type of> > > interpretion from you.> > >> > > Yours> > >> > > Shiv Dev Kalsi> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > On 6/25/08, varun_trvd <varun_trvd@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Very respected Kalsi ji,> > > >> > > > We have publically declared through the preface of this group> > that> > > > we do not consider the Lal Kitab as different from traditional> > vedic> > > > astrology. To us the Lal Kitab is a paddhati of traditional vedic> > > > astrology, it is a sub system of traditional vedic astrology. We> > do> > > > not accept the Lal Kitab as a different system.> > > >> > > > Therefore we do not accept a term or a statement like ' mixing> > Lal> > > > Kitab with vedic astrology'> > > >> > > > Please go to page # 31 of 1952 urdu ed and see the table given> > for> > > > friends and enemies of the planets.> > > >> > > > Under the column uska dushman grah for moon, no planet is> > mentioned as an> > > > enemy. It says 'ketu se grahan rahu se madhyam'> > > >> > > > Respect and naman,> > > >> > > > Varun Trivedi> > > >> > > > <%40>> > <%> > 40>,> > > > "Shivdev Kalsi"> > > > <shivdev.kalsi@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Varun Ji,> > > > > You are mixing traditional or so termed Vedic Astrology rules> > in> > > > Lalkitab.> > > > > May you elaborate little on you line> > > > > "The moon doesn't consider any planet as its enemy".> > > > > I don't think these line exists in Lalkitab> > > > > Yours> > > > > Shiv Dev Kalsi> > > > > On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 11:32 AM, varun_trvd <varun_trvd@>> > > > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > > Aadarneeya Umesh ji,> > > > > >> > > > > > The moon doesn't consider any planet as its enemy. But> > Mercury> > > > and> > > > > > Venus both consider the moon as their enemy. Since both the> > > > planets> > > > > > consider moon as the enemy, they are likely to adversely> > affect> > > > the> > > > > > moon.> > > > > >> > > > > > With regards,> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Varun Trivedi> > > > > >> > > > > > --- In> > <%40>> > <%> > 40>> > > > <%> > > > 40>,> > > > > > "Umesh Sharma"> > > > > > <mudit982001@> wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Respected Varun ji,> > > > > > > You Say,> > > > > > > For sun + mars the book says :> > > > > > > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho> > > > > > > This is simple to explain, have a look at what> > > > > > > constitutes these two planets.> > > > > > > Mars = sun + mercury> > > > > > > Sun = mercury + venus> > > > > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury> > > > > > > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore> > > > > > > it is natural that this combination will not be> > > > > > > conducive for moon.> > > > > > > MY QUESTION IS> > > > > > > 1.HAS THE VENUS IS HAVING ENIMITY WITH MOON?> > > > > > > 2.HAS THE MOON IS HAVING ENEMITY WITH MERCURY?> > > > > > > REGARDS AND WITH ALL RESPECT> > > > > > > UMESH SHARMA> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > -- In> > <%40>> > <%> > 40>> > > > <%> > > > 40>,> > > > > > "varun_trvd"> > > > > > > <varun_trvd@> wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Respected Umesh ji,> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > My views on the issues you have raised.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > [ 1 ] Lal Kitab varshphal sarini :> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > In traditional vedic Jyotish there are quite a few> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > methods prevalent for working out the Varshphal> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > kundali. The Lal Kitab has suggested yet another> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > method. Therefore there is nothing unusual or> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > surprising about the method.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > The major question is what could have been the> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > logic or the arithmetic applied to generate the table.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > We know that unless there was some formula the> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > table could not have been generated. We do not> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > know the formula as yet. But sure one day the> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > formula would be known. Till such time the formula> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > used is found out, let us not treat the sarini as some> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > thing super natural. There is nothing mystical or> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > super natural about it. It is an ordinary table; there> > are> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > hundreds of such tables used in the traditional astrology> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > [ 2 ] For sun + mars the book says :> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > asar bura na hardam koi, chandra bhala na hota ho> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > This is simple to explain, have a look at what> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > constitutes these two planets.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Mars = sun + mercury> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Sun = mercury + venus> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > If you notice this combination is all mercury> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > and venus , both enemies of the moon. Therefore> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > it is natural that this combination will not be> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > conducive for moon.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > [ 3 ] For ketu in 3rd, the book says :> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Ketu mande ho madad guru ki, tilak kesar ka bhala hota ho> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Here Jupiter is used to strengthen ketu. There is> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > nothing unusual in that. This is a very common> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > practice in the book where a friendly planet is used for> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > strengthening another friendly planet.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > With great respect and regards,> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > --- In> > > > <%40>> > <%> > 40>> > > > <%> > > > 40>,> > > > > > "Umesh Sharma"> > > > > > > > <mudit982001@> wrote:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Respected Gill j]==[,> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > There are so many other Terms which we are not> > understand.> > > > As> > > > > > > example> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > 1. What are the logic of Varshaphal Sarani?> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > 2. Why Moon is week or Manda when Sun and Mars are> > combind?> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > 3. When Ketu in 3rd than why we do upay of Jupiter?> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > So many other questions.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > because, i am a practioner astrologer and from last 15> > yrs> > > > of> > > > > > my> > > > > > > > > astrological life i use these terms as it is and get> > > > success.> > > > > > So> > > > > > > i> > > > > > > > have> > > > > > > > > no doubt. I think one bigger difference in you and me> > that> > > > you> > > > > > > are not> > > > > > > > a> > > > > > > > > professional astrologer but I am. I think Astrology is> > your> > > > > > > Hobby but> > > > > > > > > in my case it is my "Bread & Butter" so I have " PURAN> > > > SHARDHA"> > > > > > on> > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > > book. I Discuss and understand the theory of Lal-Kitab> > from> > > > > > other> > > > > > > > > scholars,. As You, Sh. Vareun Trivedi ji, Sh. Bhooshan> > > > Priya> > > > > > > ji,, Sh.> > > > > > > > > Kulbeer ji, Sh. Yograj Prabhakar ji, Sh. Lalkitabi ji,> > Sh.> > > > > > > > > L.K.Vashishath ji, Late Sh. B.R.Gupta ( My Father-in-> > Law).> > > > No> > > > > > > doubt,> > > > > > > > > you are doing the good job in favour of Lal-kitab,> > keep it> > > > up.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Regards> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Umesh Sharma> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > --- In> > > > <%40>> > <%> > 40>> > > > <%> > > > 40>,> > > > > > "gill_hs2005"> > > > > > > > > gill_hs2005@ wrote:> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Sir umesh ji,> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Agar budh itna taqatvar hai ki dono rahu aur ketu ko> > apne> > > > > > > dayre mein> > > > > > > > > > bandh kar rakh sakta hai, to rahu manda hone par> > budh par> > > > > > > parbhav> > > > > > > > > > kaise padega? Jo taqat dono ko bandh kar rakh sakti> > hai> > > > vah> > > > > > > taqat> > > > > > > > > > rahu aur ketu dono se badi huyee ki nahi. Apki baat> > se> > > > yeh> > > > > > > samajh> > > > > > > > > > mein aya ki rahu aur ketu budh ke adheen hain na ki> > budh> > > > in> > > > > > > dono ke.> > > > > > > > > > Jab budh rahu ketu ke adheen hi nahin hai to rahu ya> > > > ketu ke> > > > > > > mande> > > > > > > > > > hone ka asar budh par kaise ho sakta hai, yeh baat> > samajh> > > > > > mein> > > > > > > nahi> > > > > > > > > > ayee.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Sincerely,> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > HS Gill> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > --- In> > > > <%40>> > <%> > 40>> > > > <%> > > > 40>,> > > > > > "Umesh Sharma"> > > > > > > > > > mudit982001@ wrote:> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Respected Gill ji,> > > > > > > > > > > " Rahu-Ketu jo Pap gine hain, Grah sab hi ko> > ghumate> > > > hain ,> > > > > > > > > > > Guru Akela Do ko chalave, ghumtey par vo budh main> > > > hain"> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Regards> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Umesh Sharma> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > --- In> > > > <%40>> > <%> > 40>> > > > <%> > > > 40>,> > > > > > "gill_hs2005"> > > > > > > > > > > <gill_hs2005@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Sir Umesh Sharma ji,> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. page no 386 Moon in 4th house> > > > > > > > > > > > > Manda asar> > > > > > > > > > > > > Note #3. Sar Fat jaye, Rahu ka manda asar Budh> > (> > > > Budh> > > > > > ki> > > > > > > > > > > > Aashiyaan,> > > > > > > > > > > > > Karobaar ya Rishtedaar__ Mutlka budh) par hoga> > {> > > > Rahu> > > > > > > Khana #> > > > > > > > > > 10}> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Agar chander 4 hai aur rahu 10 mein to budh par> > gaaz> > > > > > kyon> > > > > > > giri ?> > > > > > > > > > > > budh ka talluk na to khana 4 se hai aur nahi> > khana 10> > > > > > se.> > > > > > > budh> > > > > > > > in> > > > > > > > > > > > dono gharon mein bhi nahi hai to phir budh ki> > ashiya,> > > > > > > karobar ya> > > > > > > > > > > > rishtedar par bura asar kaise padega?> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Sincerely,> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > HS Gill> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In> > > > <%40>> > <%> > 40>> > > > <%> > > > 40>,> > > > > > "Umesh> > > > > > Sharma"> > > > > > > > > > > > mudit982001@ wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Sir,> > > > > > > > > > > > > Now there are two Statements in this regards> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. page no 386 Moon in 4th house> > > > > > > > > > > > > Manda asar> > > > > > > > > > > > > Note #3. Sar Fat jaye, Rahu ka manda asar Budh> > (> > > > Budh> > > > > > ki> > > > > > > > > > > > Aashiyaan,> > > > > > > > > > > > > Karobaar ya Rishtedaar__ Mutlka budh) par hoga> > {> > > > Rahu> > > > > > > Khana #> > > > > > > > > > 10}> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. RAHU in house # 10 :> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1952 urdu ed : Page 680 ; note # 9> > > > > > > > > > > > > Khyali dimagi dhuan bayas pareshani ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬"> > dimagh> > > > > > > > > > > > > phate ya sar kate ya nazar gum ho jave- aur> > dhan> > > > > > > > > > > > > daulat par bijli ki tarah manda asar hoga> > > > > > > > > > > > > [ Chandra khana # 4 ]> > > > > > > > > > > > > HOW TO DECIDE WHICH STATEMENT IS APPLICABLE?> > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhai yograj ji ki baat bilkul sahi hey par mere> > > > hisab> > > > > > se> > > > > > > Grah> > > > > > > > > > ka> > > > > > > > > > > > Khana> > > > > > > > > > > > > main akele bethe hone par honi chahiye. Yahan> > par> > > > to> > > > > > Rahu> > > > > > > > > > Chandar> > > > > > > > > > > > se> > > > > > > > > > > > > drishat ho raha hey. May be i wrong.> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > With> > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Umesh Sharma> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > #1. Moon in 4th and rahu in 10th> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In> > > > > > <%40>> > <%> > 40>> > > > <%> > > > 40>,> > > > > > "varun_trvd"> > > > > > > > > > > > > <varun_trvd@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Umesh ji,> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > RAHU in house # 10 :> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1952 urdu ed : Page 680 ; note # 9> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Khyali dimagi dhuan bayas pareshani ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬"> > dimagh> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > phate ya sar kate ya nazar gum ho jave- aur> > dhan> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > daulat par bijli ki tarah manda asar hoga> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > [ Chandra khana # 4 ]> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > While answering to Wandahl ji, the context he> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > had asked me to explain from was Rahu in the> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house. Therefore I had translated the> > above> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > lines from the book into English for my> > answer.> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > With great respect and regards,> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In> > > > <%40>> > <%> > 40>> > > > <%> > > > 40>,> > > > > > "Umesh> > > > > > > Sharma"> > > > > > > > > > > > > > mudit982001@ wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Varun ji,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If Moon in 4th and Rahu in 10th the result> > is> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Sir Fat Jaye, Rahu ka bura asar Budh (> > Budh> > > > ki> > > > > > > > Aashiayan,> > > > > > > > > > > > Karobaar> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ya> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rishtedar mutlka Budh ) par hoga." page no> > 388> > > > > > > edi.1952,> > > > > > > > > > > > chandrma> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Khana> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > no. 4, Mandi halat Term no. 3.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kyonki Rahu jab jab Chandrma se Drishat> > hoga ya> > > > > > > mushtrka> > > > > > > > > > hoga> > > > > > > > > > > > vah> > > > > > > > > > > > > Budh> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ko khrab karega.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gustakhi ki Kashma chahta hoon.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umesh Sharma> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In> > > > > > > <%40>> > <%> > 40>> > > > <%> > > > 40>,> > > > > > "varun_trvd"> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > varun_trvd@ wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Wandahl saheb,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks for your response. It is a> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pleasure reading your views.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have asked ;> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th it is mentioned that Upay> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of Mars would be beneficial if there> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is also Moon in the 4th house. Do you> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > know the reason for this? I think it> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is difficult to grasp.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I understand basically it means that> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in case moon is in the 4th while the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is in the 10th then it would result> > in:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Foggy and unrealistic thoughts, brain> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > splitting agony, weak eyes, diminished> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wealth.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you notice the areas most> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > affected are the karaks of the moon and> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the reason being that Rahu will have an> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aspect on the moon.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If that happens then the Mars upaya> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > should be done> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with respect and regards,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In> > > > <%40>> > <%> > 40>> > > > <%> > > > 40>,> > > > > > "Finn> > > > > > > > > > Wandahl"> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > finn.wandahl@ wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Mr. Varun Trivedi,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for this very inspirating> > > > article on> > > > > > > Upaya,> > > > > > > > > > > > which I> > > > > > > > > > > > > like> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > say a few things about. However, I> > have a> > > > > > rather> > > > > > > > > > liberal> > > > > > > > > > > > > approach> > > > > > > > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Upaya as I consider the Upayas> > mentioned in> > > > > > Lal> > > > > > > Kitab> > > > > > > > > > to be> > > > > > > > > > > > > merely> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suggestions and guidelines meant to> > > > stimulate> > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > intuition,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > empathy> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and discriminative power of the> > astrologer> > > > to> > > > > > > make him> > > > > > > > > > > > create> > > > > > > > > > > > > his> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > own> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > remedies depending upon the> > circumstances,> > > > > > time> > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > place> > > > > > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > > > > > each> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > individual client.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have given Saturn in the 7th house> > as> > > > an> > > > > > > example.> > > > > > > > > > But> > > > > > > > > > > > > normally> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would perhaps not be much concerned> > about> > > > > > that.> > > > > > > After> > > > > > > > > > all> > > > > > > > > > > > it is> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ucha> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (exalted) and even if the 1st house was> > > > empty> > > > > > > thus> > > > > > > > > > making> > > > > > > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sleeping or dormant it would not cause> > too> > > > > > much> > > > > > > alarm> > > > > > > > > > > > except> > > > > > > > > > > > > > perhaps> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if Ketu was ahead of Saturn thereby> > > > turning it> > > > > > > > > > malefic. In> > > > > > > > > > > > that> > > > > > > > > > > > > > case> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > might even consider Ketu the problem,> > since> > > > > > Ketu> > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > > what> > > > > > > > > > > > made> > > > > > > > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn Malefic.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then you say something very interesting> > > > about> > > > > > > Rahu in> > > > > > > > > > > > kendras> > > > > > > > > > > > > > where> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the planet that gets exalted in the> > house> > > > > > > occupied by> > > > > > > > > > Rahu> > > > > > > > > > > > > should> > > > > > > > > > > > > > be> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > considered for Upay. However, regarding> > > > Rahu> > > > > > in> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > first,> > > > > > > > > > > > it is> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > alreading said in Lal Kitab that the> > Sun> > > > would> > > > > > be> > > > > > > > > > > > eclipsed, not> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun itself but the house occupied by> > the> > > > Sun.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In annual charts, however, I have often> > > > had the> > > > > > > > > > > > experience, that> > > > > > > > > > > > > > it> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > really the Sun itself that gets> > eclipsed> > > > and> > > > > > > destroyed> > > > > > > > > > > > when Rahu> > > > > > > > > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the first rather than the house> > occupied by> > > > > > the> > > > > > > Sun.> > > > > > > > > > Rahu> > > > > > > > > > > > coming> > > > > > > > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 1st house can really destroy the> > rank> > > > and> > > > > > > position> > > > > > > > > > of a> > > > > > > > > > > > > > person.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, the problem with Rahu in the> > 1st> > > > in> > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > context> > > > > > > > > > > > of Upay> > > > > > > > > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that the Sun is both significator of> > the> > > > first> > > > > > > house> > > > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > > > also> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exalted> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there at the same time, and it make> > little> > > > > > > difference> > > > > > > > > > if we> > > > > > > > > > > > > > involve> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in Upay for one reason or the other as> > > > long as> > > > > > > it is> > > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > same> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planet.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the> > 10th> > > > it> > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > > mentioned> > > > > > > > > > > > that> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Upay> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of Mars would be beneficial if there is> > > > also> > > > > > > Moon in> > > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > 4th> > > > > > > > > > > > > > house.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you know the reason for this? I think> > it is> > > > > > > difficult> > > > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > > grasp.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then if Rahu was in the 7th house,> > Saturn> > > > > > would> > > > > > > hardly> > > > > > > > > > be> > > > > > > > > > > > my> > > > > > > > > > > > > first> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > choice for remedy even though it is> > exalted> > > > > > > there. I> > > > > > > > > > would> > > > > > > > > > > > no> > > > > > > > > > > > > > doubt> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > consider Venus first and perhaps also> > > > Mercury> > > > > > if> > > > > > > > > > daughters> > > > > > > > > > > > or> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sisters> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > were involved.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu in the 4th by itself should not> > be a> > > > > > > problem as> > > > > > > > > > it has> > > > > > > > > > > > > takes> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > oath not to cause evil when alone or> > with> > > > the> > > > > > > Moon in> > > > > > > > > > 4th> > > > > > > > > > > > house.> > > > > > > > > > > > > I> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > don't know if remedy of Jupiter could> > be> > > > used> > > > > > in> > > > > > > case> > > > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu> > > > > > > > > > > > > > being> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > malefic in the 4th. I think Moon or> > perhaps> > > > > > > Saturn> > > > > > > > > > would> > > > > > > > > > > > be my> > > > > > > > > > > > > > first> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > choice in such a case.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Finn Wandahl> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In> > > > > > > > > >> > <%40>> > <%> > 40>> > > > <%> > > > 40>,> > > > > > "varun_trvd"> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > varun_trvd@ wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected members,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Devising the form of upaya:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lal Kitab 1952 urdu ed page 620 last> > > > lines :> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn in the 7th house> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Khand se bharkar bansari bahar> > veerane> > > > mein> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dabana mubarik, basharte ki> > Shanishchar> > > > soya> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > na ho; agar soya ho to shahad ke> > bartan> > > > ka> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > upaya madadgar hoga> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At the first reading it would appear> > > > that if> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn is not dormant [ soya hua]> > then> > > > bury> > > > > > in> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a barren place a flute filled with> > desi> > > > > > sugar [> > > > > > > > > > khand ] ;> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if the Saturn is dormant then bury a> > pot> > > > > > > filled with> > > > > > > > > > > > honey.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But it is not so. That is not the> > correct> > > > > > > > > > understanding> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So much so a well known Lal Kitab> > scholar> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > made a slip when he wrote in his> > book for> > > > > > > Saturn in> > > > > > > > > > 7th:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kisi bartan ko shahad se bharkar> > bahar> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dabane ka upaya sahayak hoga> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct upaya is to establish at> > > > home in> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the south west corner a pot filled> > with> > > > > > honey.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thus the correct upaya is> > establishing> > > > and> > > > > > not> > > > > > > > > > burying.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This has already been discussed here> > in> > > > the> > > > > > > group.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those who wish to read the logic> > behind> > > > > > > establishing> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can go to the archives and read.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I began by giving this example to> > show> > > > how> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > difficult it is to devise an upaya> > and> > > > more> > > > > > so> > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > decide the form of upaya> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In most cases, the Lal Kitab does not> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > explain the form of upaya to be> > done. It> > > > just> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suggests that the upaya for such-n-> > such> > > > > > planet> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be done e.g. mangal ka upaya madadgar> > > > hoga.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This statement by itself is not very> > > > > > helpful.> > > > > > > It is> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the Lalkitabist who has to decide the> > > > form> > > > > > of> > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mangal ka upaya. He has to decide> > > > whether the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karaks of mangal are to be immersed> > in> > > > > > flowing> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > water, or gifted at a temple or> > buried> > > > and> > > > > > so> > > > > > > on.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The upaya devised has to be correct> > and> > > > > > > effective.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This needs a very good understanding> > of> > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > system and a very wide experience.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me explain this with an example :> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For Rahu placed in the Kendra> > houses, it> > > > is> > > > > > > advised> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that the upaya should be done of the> > > > planet> > > > > > > which> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gets exalted in that house.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, if the Rahu is placed in> > the> > > > 1st> > > > > > > house> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and has been identified as malefic> > then> > > > > > surya> > > > > > > ka> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > upaya madadgar hoga. Now what should> > be> > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > form of this surya ka upaya. Should> > we> > > > > > immerse> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks of the Sun in flowing> > water,> > > > or> > > > > > > should> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we bury the karaks of the sun, or> > should> > > > we> > > > > > > offer> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks of the sun at a temple,> > or any> > > > > > other> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > form of upaya to be devised.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thankfully in this case it has been> > > > > > indicated> > > > > > > that> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks of the Sun should be> > gifted> > > > at a> > > > > > > temple.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is done to strengthen the Sun so> > > > that he> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > could withstand the eclipsing> > ability of> > > > > > Rahu.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But for the same Rahu in the 10th> > house> > > > the> > > > > > > book> > > > > > > > > > says:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > khali mandir se rahu sota, tez> > swabhav> > > > manda> > > > > > ho> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mitra grah par keechad deta, upaya> > > > mangal ka> > > > > > > uttam> > > > > > > > ho> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now in this case no indication has> > been> > > > > > given> > > > > > > as to> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what will be the form of mangal ka> > upaya,> > > > > > like> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the case of Rahu in the 1st house> > > > where> > > > > > > gifting> > > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karaks of Sun has been indicated.> > Will> > > > > > gifting> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > karaks> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of mangal at any temple be a correct> > > > upaya?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If not, then what should be the form> > of> > > > the> > > > > > > upaya ?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A rahu placed in the 10th can not do> > any> > > > > > > damage to> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn but it will definitely harm> > the> > > > > > > > significations> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of the 10th house, be it a job or> > name or> > > > > > fame.> > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if the rahu is adjudged as malefic,> > then> > > > an> > > > > > > upaya> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will become necessary. So what would> > be> > > > the> > > > > > > form> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of the upaya. We know that mangal> > will> > > > help,> > > > > > > but in> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what form? It is the Lalkitabist who> > has> > > > to> > > > > > > decide> > > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > form of the upaya.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the book says:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu ka manda asar teve wale par nahi> > > > hoga :> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jab mangal nek ho> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this case the Rahu has to be> > brought> > > > under> > > > > > > > control> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > such that it is not able to damage> > the> > > > > > > > > > significations of> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 10th house. Since Mangal shubh> > alone> > > > can> > > > > > > control> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu therefore the karak of mangal> > shubh> > > > has> > > > > > > to be> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > established at home, keep at home a> > > > little> > > > > > > honey> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in a silver dibbi towards the west.> > This> > > > > > upaya> > > > > > > will> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > keep the belligerent Rahu under> > control.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now you know the difference. In one> > case> > > > it> > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > > gifting> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks which would be an> > effective> > > > upaya> > > > > > > where> > > > > > > > as> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the next case it is establishing a> > > > karak> > > > > > > would be> > > > > > > > > > an> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > effective upaya.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore devising upaya is a science> > > > which a> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lalkitabist has to learn. It comes> > with> > > > time> > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > experience. That is why upaya> > suggested> > > > > > through> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ready reckoners do not work.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > --> > > > > Dr. Shiv Dev Kalsi,> > > > > Jyotish Rishi (AIFAS)> > > > > Consultant (Vedic Astrology)> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > > --> > > Dr. Shiv Dev Kalsi,> > > Jyotish Rishi (AIFAS)> > > Consultant (Vedic Astrology)> > >> >> > > >> > > > -- > Dr. Shiv Dev Kalsi,> Jyotish Rishi (AIFAS)> Consultant (Vedic Astrology)>> > > > > > > _______________> Discover the new Windows Vista> http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=windows+vista & mkt=en-US & form=QBRE>

Re:Devising the form of an upaya / Pt. Umesh Sharma ji

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