Guest guest Posted June 15, 2008 Report Share Posted June 15, 2008 Respected members, Devising the form of upaya: Lal Kitab 1952 urdu ed page 620 last lines : Saturn in the 7th house Khand se bharkar bansari bahar veerane mein dabana mubarik, basharte ki Shanishchar soya na ho; agar soya ho to shahad ke bartan ka upaya madadgar hoga At the first reading it would appear that if the Saturn is not dormant [ soya hua] then bury in a barren place a flute filled with desi sugar [ khand ] ; if the Saturn is dormant then bury a pot filled with honey. But it is not so. That is not the correct understanding So much so a well known Lal Kitab scholar made a slip when he wrote in his book for Saturn in 7th: kisi bartan ko shahad se bharkar bahar dabane ka upaya sahayak hoga The correct upaya is to establish at home in the south west corner a pot filled with honey. Thus the correct upaya is establishing and not burying. This has already been discussed here in the group. Those who wish to read the logic behind establishing can go to the archives and read. I began by giving this example to show how difficult it is to devise an upaya and more so to decide the form of upaya In most cases, the Lal Kitab does not explain the form of upaya to be done. It just suggests that the upaya for such-n-such planet be done e.g. mangal ka upaya madadgar hoga. This statement by itself is not very helpful. It is the Lalkitabist who has to decide the form of this mangal ka upaya. He has to decide whether the karaks of mangal are to be immersed in flowing water, or gifted at a temple or buried and so on. The upaya devised has to be correct and effective. This needs a very good understanding of the system and a very wide experience. Let me explain this with an example : For Rahu placed in the Kendra houses, it is advised that the upaya should be done of the planet which gets exalted in that house. Therefore, if the Rahu is placed in the 1st house and has been identified as malefic then surya ka upaya madadgar hoga. Now what should be the form of this surya ka upaya. Should we immerse the karaks of the Sun in flowing water, or should we bury the karaks of the sun, or should we offer the karaks of the sun at a temple, or any other form of upaya to be devised. Thankfully in this case it has been indicated that the karaks of the Sun should be gifted at a temple. This is done to strengthen the Sun so that he could withstand the eclipsing ability of Rahu. But for the same Rahu in the 10th house the book says: khali mandir se rahu sota, tez swabhav manda ho mitra grah par keechad deta, upaya mangal ka uttam ho Now in this case no indication has been given as to what will be the form of mangal ka upaya, like the in the case of Rahu in the 1st house where gifting the karaks of Sun has been indicated. Will gifting the karaks of mangal at any temple be a correct upaya? If not, then what should be the form of the upaya ? A rahu placed in the 10th can not do any damage to Saturn but it will definitely harm the significations of the 10th house, be it a job or name or fame. Therefore, if the rahu is adjudged as malefic, then an upaya will become necessary. So what would be the form of the upaya. We know that mangal will help, but in what form? It is the Lalkitabist who has to decide the form of the upaya. Since the book says: Rahu ka manda asar teve wale par nahi hoga : jab mangal nek ho In this case the Rahu has to be brought under control such that it is not able to damage the significations of the 10th house. Since Mangal shubh alone can control Rahu therefore the karak of mangal shubh has to be established at home, keep at home a little honey in a silver dibbi towards the west. This upaya will keep the belligerent Rahu under control. Now you know the difference. In one case it is gifting the karaks which would be an effective upaya where as in the next case it is establishing a karak would be an effective upaya. Therefore devising upaya is a science which a Lalkitabist has to learn. It comes with time and experience. That is why upaya suggested through ready reckoners do not work. Regards, Varun Trivedi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2008 Report Share Posted June 16, 2008 Dear Mr. Varun Trivedi, Thank you for this very inspirating article on Upaya, which I like to say a few things about. However, I have a rather liberal approach to Upaya as I consider the Upayas mentioned in Lal Kitab to be merely suggestions and guidelines meant to stimulate the intuition, empathy and discriminative power of the astrologer to make him create his own remedies depending upon the circumstances, time and place of each individual client. You have given Saturn in the 7th house as an example. But normally I would perhaps not be much concerned about that. After all it is Ucha (exalted) and even if the 1st house was empty thus making this Saturn sleeping or dormant it would not cause too much alarm except perhaps if Ketu was ahead of Saturn thereby turning it malefic. In that case I might even consider Ketu the problem, since Ketu is what made this Saturn Malefic. Then you say something very interesting about Rahu in kendras where the planet that gets exalted in the house occupied by Rahu should be considered for Upay. However, regarding Rahu in the first, it is alreading said in Lal Kitab that the Sun would be eclipsed, not the Sun itself but the house occupied by the Sun. In annual charts, however, I have often had the experience, that it is really the Sun itself that gets eclipsed and destroyed when Rahu is in the first rather than the house occupied by the Sun. Rahu coming to the 1st house can really destroy the rank and position of a person. However, the problem with Rahu in the 1st in the context of Upay is that the Sun is both significator of the first house and also exalted there at the same time, and it make little difference if we involve it in Upay for one reason or the other as long as it is the same planet. In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the 10th it is mentioned that Upay of Mars would be beneficial if there is also Moon in the 4th house. Do you know the reason for this? I think it is difficult to grasp. Then if Rahu was in the 7th house, Saturn would hardly be my first choice for remedy even though it is exalted there. I would no doubt consider Venus first and perhaps also Mercury if daughters or sisters were involved. Rahu in the 4th by itself should not be a problem as it has takes this oath not to cause evil when alone or with the Moon in 4th house. I don't know if remedy of Jupiter could be used in case of Rahu being malefic in the 4th. I think Moon or perhaps Saturn would be my first choice in such a case. Best regards, Finn Wandahl , " varun_trvd " <varun_trvd wrote: > > > Respected members, > > > > Devising the form of upaya: > > > > > > Lal Kitab 1952 urdu ed page 620 last lines : > > > > Saturn in the 7th house > > > > Khand se bharkar bansari bahar veerane mein > > dabana mubarik, basharte ki Shanishchar soya > > na ho; agar soya ho to shahad ke bartan ka > > upaya madadgar hoga > > > > At the first reading it would appear that if the > > Saturn is not dormant [ soya hua] then bury in > > a barren place a flute filled with desi sugar [ khand ] ; > > if the Saturn is dormant then bury a pot filled with honey. > > > > But it is not so. That is not the correct understanding > > > > > > So much so a well known Lal Kitab scholar > > made a slip when he wrote in his book for Saturn in 7th: > > kisi bartan ko shahad se bharkar bahar > > dabane ka upaya sahayak hoga > > > > > > The correct upaya is to establish at home in > > the south west corner a pot filled with honey. > > Thus the correct upaya is establishing and not burying. > > This has already been discussed here in the group. > > Those who wish to read the logic behind establishing > > can go to the archives and read. > > > > I began by giving this example to show how > > difficult it is to devise an upaya and more so to > > decide the form of upaya > > > > > > In most cases, the Lal Kitab does not > > explain the form of upaya to be done. It just > > suggests that the upaya for such-n-such planet > > be done e.g. mangal ka upaya madadgar hoga. > > This statement by itself is not very helpful. It is > > the Lalkitabist who has to decide the form of this > > mangal ka upaya. He has to decide whether the > > karaks of mangal are to be immersed in flowing > > water, or gifted at a temple or buried and so on. > > The upaya devised has to be correct and effective. > > This needs a very good understanding of the > > system and a very wide experience. > > > > Let me explain this with an example : > > > > For Rahu placed in the Kendra houses, it is advised > > that the upaya should be done of the planet which > > gets exalted in that house. > > > > Therefore, if the Rahu is placed in the 1st house > > and has been identified as malefic then surya ka > > upaya madadgar hoga. Now what should be the > > form of this surya ka upaya. Should we immerse > > the karaks of the Sun in flowing water, or should > > we bury the karaks of the sun, or should we offer > > the karaks of the sun at a temple, or any other > > form of upaya to be devised. > > > > Thankfully in this case it has been indicated that > > the karaks of the Sun should be gifted at a temple. > > This is done to strengthen the Sun so that he > > could withstand the eclipsing ability of Rahu. > > > > But for the same Rahu in the 10th house the book says: > > > > khali mandir se rahu sota, tez swabhav manda ho > > mitra grah par keechad deta, upaya mangal ka uttam ho > > > > Now in this case no indication has been given as to > > what will be the form of mangal ka upaya, like the > > in the case of Rahu in the 1st house where gifting the > > karaks of Sun has been indicated. Will gifting the karaks > > of mangal at any temple be a correct upaya? > > > > If not, then what should be the form of the upaya ? > > > > A rahu placed in the 10th can not do any damage to > > Saturn but it will definitely harm the significations > > of the 10th house, be it a job or name or fame. Therefore, > > if the rahu is adjudged as malefic, then an upaya > > will become necessary. So what would be the form > > of the upaya. We know that mangal will help, but in > > what form? It is the Lalkitabist who has to decide the > > form of the upaya. > > > > Since the book says: > > > > Rahu ka manda asar teve wale par nahi hoga : > > jab mangal nek ho > > > > > > In this case the Rahu has to be brought under control > > such that it is not able to damage the significations of > > the 10th house. Since Mangal shubh alone can control > > Rahu therefore the karak of mangal shubh has to be > > established at home, keep at home a little honey > > in a silver dibbi towards the west. This upaya will > > keep the belligerent Rahu under control. > > > > Now you know the difference. In one case it is gifting > > the karaks which would be an effective upaya where as > > in the next case it is establishing a karak would be an > > effective upaya. > > > > Therefore devising upaya is a science which a > > Lalkitabist has to learn. It comes with time and > > experience. That is why upaya suggested through > > ready reckoners do not work. > > > > Regards, > > > > Varun Trivedi > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2008 Report Share Posted June 16, 2008 Respected Wandahl saheb, Many thanks for your response. It is a pleasure reading your views. You have asked ; In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the 10th it is mentioned that Upayof Mars would be beneficial if there is also Moon in the 4th house. Do you know the reason for this? I think it is difficult to grasp. As I understand basically it means that in case moon is in the 4th while the Rahu is in the 10th then it would result in: Foggy and unrealistic thoughts, brain splitting agony, weak eyes, diminished wealth. If you notice the areas most affected are the karaks of the moon and the reason being that Rahu will have an aspect on the moon. If that happens then the Mars upayashould be done with respect and regards, Varun Trivedi , "Finn Wandahl" <finn.wandahl wrote:>> Dear Mr. Varun Trivedi,> > Thank you for this very inspirating article on Upaya, which I like to> say a few things about. However, I have a rather liberal approach to> Upaya as I consider the Upayas mentioned in Lal Kitab to be merely> suggestions and guidelines meant to stimulate the intuition, empathy> and discriminative power of the astrologer to make him create his own> remedies depending upon the circumstances, time and place of each> individual client.> > You have given Saturn in the 7th house as an example. But normally I> would perhaps not be much concerned about that. After all it is Ucha> (exalted) and even if the 1st house was empty thus making this Saturn> sleeping or dormant it would not cause too much alarm except perhaps> if Ketu was ahead of Saturn thereby turning it malefic. In that case I> might even consider Ketu the problem, since Ketu is what made this> Saturn Malefic.> > Then you say something very interesting about Rahu in kendras where> the planet that gets exalted in the house occupied by Rahu should be> considered for Upay. However, regarding Rahu in the first, it is> alreading said in Lal Kitab that the Sun would be eclipsed, not the> Sun itself but the house occupied by the Sun.> > In annual charts, however, I have often had the experience, that it is> really the Sun itself that gets eclipsed and destroyed when Rahu is in> the first rather than the house occupied by the Sun. Rahu coming to> the 1st house can really destroy the rank and position of a person.> > However, the problem with Rahu in the 1st in the context of Upay is> that the Sun is both significator of the first house and also exalted> there at the same time, and it make little difference if we involve it> in Upay for one reason or the other as long as it is the same planet.> > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the 10th it is mentioned that Upay> of Mars would be beneficial if there is also Moon in the 4th house. Do> you know the reason for this? I think it is difficult to grasp.> > Then if Rahu was in the 7th house, Saturn would hardly be my first> choice for remedy even though it is exalted there. I would no doubt> consider Venus first and perhaps also Mercury if daughters or sisters> were involved.> > Rahu in the 4th by itself should not be a problem as it has takes this> oath not to cause evil when alone or with the Moon in 4th house. I> don't know if remedy of Jupiter could be used in case of Rahu being> malefic in the 4th. I think Moon or perhaps Saturn would be my first> choice in such a case.> > Best regards,> Finn Wandahl > > > , "varun_trvd"> varun_trvd@ wrote:> >> > > > Respected members,> > > > > > > > Devising the form of upaya:> > > > > > > > > > > > Lal Kitab 1952 urdu ed page 620 last lines :> > > > > > > > Saturn in the 7th house> > > > > > > > Khand se bharkar bansari bahar veerane mein> > > > dabana mubarik, basharte ki Shanishchar soya> > > > na ho; agar soya ho to shahad ke bartan ka> > > > upaya madadgar hoga> > > > > > > > At the first reading it would appear that if the> > > > Saturn is not dormant [ soya hua] then bury in> > > > a barren place a flute filled with desi sugar [ khand ] ;> > > > if the Saturn is dormant then bury a pot filled with honey.> > > > > > > > But it is not so. That is not the correct understanding> > > > > > > > > > > > So much so a well known Lal Kitab scholar> > > > made a slip when he wrote in his book for Saturn in 7th:> > > > kisi bartan ko shahad se bharkar bahar> > > > dabane ka upaya sahayak hoga> > > > > > > > > > > > The correct upaya is to establish at home in> > > > the south west corner a pot filled with honey.> > > > Thus the correct upaya is establishing and not burying.> > > > This has already been discussed here in the group.> > > > Those who wish to read the logic behind establishing> > > > can go to the archives and read.> > > > > > > > I began by giving this example to show how> > > > difficult it is to devise an upaya and more so to> > > > decide the form of upaya> > > > > > > > > > > > In most cases, the Lal Kitab does not> > > > explain the form of upaya to be done. It just> > > > suggests that the upaya for such-n-such planet> > > > be done e.g. mangal ka upaya madadgar hoga.> > > > This statement by itself is not very helpful. It is> > > > the Lalkitabist who has to decide the form of this> > > > mangal ka upaya. He has to decide whether the> > > > karaks of mangal are to be immersed in flowing> > > > water, or gifted at a temple or buried and so on.> > > > The upaya devised has to be correct and effective.> > > > This needs a very good understanding of the> > > > system and a very wide experience.> > > > > > > > Let me explain this with an example :> > > > > > > > For Rahu placed in the Kendra houses, it is advised> > > > that the upaya should be done of the planet which> > > > gets exalted in that house.> > > > > > > > Therefore, if the Rahu is placed in the 1st house> > > > and has been identified as malefic then surya ka> > > > upaya madadgar hoga. Now what should be the> > > > form of this surya ka upaya. Should we immerse> > > > the karaks of the Sun in flowing water, or should> > > > we bury the karaks of the sun, or should we offer> > > > the karaks of the sun at a temple, or any other> > > > form of upaya to be devised.> > > > > > > > Thankfully in this case it has been indicated that> > > > the karaks of the Sun should be gifted at a temple.> > > > This is done to strengthen the Sun so that he> > > > could withstand the eclipsing ability of Rahu.> > > > > > > > But for the same Rahu in the 10th house the book says:> > > > > > > > khali mandir se rahu sota, tez swabhav manda ho> > > > mitra grah par keechad deta, upaya mangal ka uttam ho> > > > > > > > Now in this case no indication has been given as to> > > > what will be the form of mangal ka upaya, like the> > > > in the case of Rahu in the 1st house where gifting the> > > > karaks of Sun has been indicated. Will gifting the karaks> > > > of mangal at any temple be a correct upaya?> > > > > > > > If not, then what should be the form of the upaya ?> > > > > > > > A rahu placed in the 10th can not do any damage to> > > > Saturn but it will definitely harm the significations> > > > of the 10th house, be it a job or name or fame. Therefore,> > > > if the rahu is adjudged as malefic, then an upaya> > > > will become necessary. So what would be the form> > > > of the upaya. We know that mangal will help, but in> > > > what form? It is the Lalkitabist who has to decide the> > > > form of the upaya.> > > > > > > > Since the book says:> > > > > > > > Rahu ka manda asar teve wale par nahi hoga :> > > > jab mangal nek ho> > > > > > > > > > > > In this case the Rahu has to be brought under control> > > > such that it is not able to damage the significations of> > > > the 10th house. Since Mangal shubh alone can control> > > > Rahu therefore the karak of mangal shubh has to be> > > > established at home, keep at home a little honey> > > > in a silver dibbi towards the west. This upaya will> > > > keep the belligerent Rahu under control.> > > > > > > > Now you know the difference. In one case it is gifting> > > > the karaks which would be an effective upaya where as> > > > in the next case it is establishing a karak would be an> > > > effective upaya.> > > > > > > > Therefore devising upaya is a science which a> > > > Lalkitabist has to learn. It comes with time and> > > > experience. That is why upaya suggested through> > > > ready reckoners do not work.> > > > > > > > Regards,> > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 Respected Umesh ji, RAHU in house # 10 : 1952 urdu ed : Page 680 ; note # 9 Khyali dimagi dhuan bayas pareshani – dimagh phate ya sar kate ya nazar gum ho jave- aur dhan daulat par bijli ki tarah manda asar hoga [ Chandra khana # 4 ] While answering to Wandahl ji, the context he had asked me to explain from was Rahu in the 10th house. Therefore I had translated the above lines from the book into English for my answer. With great respect and regards, Varun Trivedi , "Umesh Sharma" <mudit982001 wrote:>> > Respected Varun ji,> If Moon in 4th and Rahu in 10th the result is> " Sir Fat Jaye, Rahu ka bura asar Budh ( Budh ki Aashiayan, Karobaar ya> Rishtedar mutlka Budh ) par hoga." page no 388 edi.1952, chandrma Khana> no. 4, Mandi halat Term no. 3.> Kyonki Rahu jab jab Chandrma se Drishat hoga ya mushtrka hoga vah Budh> ko khrab karega.> Gustakhi ki Kashma chahta hoon.> > Regards> > Umesh Sharma> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "varun_trvd"> varun_trvd@ wrote:> >> >> > Respected Wandahl saheb,> >> > Many thanks for your response. It is a> > pleasure reading your views.> >> > You have asked ;> >> > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the> > 10th it is mentioned that Upay> > of Mars would be beneficial if there> > is also Moon in the 4th house. Do you> > know the reason for this? I think it> > is difficult to grasp.> >> > As I understand basically it means that> > in case moon is in the 4th while the> > Rahu is in the 10th then it would result in:> >> > Foggy and unrealistic thoughts, brain> > splitting agony, weak eyes, diminished> > wealth.> >> > If you notice the areas most> > affected are the karaks of the moon and> > the reason being that Rahu will have an> > aspect on the moon.> >> > If that happens then the Mars upaya> > should be done> >> > with respect and regards,> >> > Varun Trivedi> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > , "Finn Wandahl"> > finn.wandahl@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Mr. Varun Trivedi,> > >> > > Thank you for this very inspirating article on Upaya, which I like> to> > > say a few things about. However, I have a rather liberal approach to> > > Upaya as I consider the Upayas mentioned in Lal Kitab to be merely> > > suggestions and guidelines meant to stimulate the intuition, empathy> > > and discriminative power of the astrologer to make him create his> own> > > remedies depending upon the circumstances, time and place of each> > > individual client.> > >> > > You have given Saturn in the 7th house as an example. But normally I> > > would perhaps not be much concerned about that. After all it is Ucha> > > (exalted) and even if the 1st house was empty thus making this> Saturn> > > sleeping or dormant it would not cause too much alarm except perhaps> > > if Ketu was ahead of Saturn thereby turning it malefic. In that case> I> > > might even consider Ketu the problem, since Ketu is what made this> > > Saturn Malefic.> > >> > > Then you say something very interesting about Rahu in kendras where> > > the planet that gets exalted in the house occupied by Rahu should be> > > considered for Upay. However, regarding Rahu in the first, it is> > > alreading said in Lal Kitab that the Sun would be eclipsed, not the> > > Sun itself but the house occupied by the Sun.> > >> > > In annual charts, however, I have often had the experience, that it> is> > > really the Sun itself that gets eclipsed and destroyed when Rahu is> in> > > the first rather than the house occupied by the Sun. Rahu coming to> > > the 1st house can really destroy the rank and position of a person.> > >> > > However, the problem with Rahu in the 1st in the context of Upay is> > > that the Sun is both significator of the first house and also> exalted> > > there at the same time, and it make little difference if we involve> it> > > in Upay for one reason or the other as long as it is the same> planet.> > >> > > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the 10th it is mentioned that Upay> > > of Mars would be beneficial if there is also Moon in the 4th house.> Do> > > you know the reason for this? I think it is difficult to grasp.> > >> > > Then if Rahu was in the 7th house, Saturn would hardly be my first> > > choice for remedy even though it is exalted there. I would no doubt> > > consider Venus first and perhaps also Mercury if daughters or> sisters> > > were involved.> > >> > > Rahu in the 4th by itself should not be a problem as it has takes> this> > > oath not to cause evil when alone or with the Moon in 4th house. I> > > don't know if remedy of Jupiter could be used in case of Rahu being> > > malefic in the 4th. I think Moon or perhaps Saturn would be my first> > > choice in such a case.> > >> > > Best regards,> > > Finn Wandahl> > >> > >> > > , "varun_trvd"> > > varun_trvd@ wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Respected members,> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Devising the form of upaya:> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Lal Kitab 1952 urdu ed page 620 last lines :> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Saturn in the 7th house> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Khand se bharkar bansari bahar veerane mein> > > >> > > > dabana mubarik, basharte ki Shanishchar soya> > > >> > > > na ho; agar soya ho to shahad ke bartan ka> > > >> > > > upaya madadgar hoga> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > At the first reading it would appear that if the> > > >> > > > Saturn is not dormant [ soya hua] then bury in> > > >> > > > a barren place a flute filled with desi sugar [ khand ] ;> > > >> > > > if the Saturn is dormant then bury a pot filled with honey.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > But it is not so. That is not the correct understanding> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > So much so a well known Lal Kitab scholar> > > >> > > > made a slip when he wrote in his book for Saturn in 7th:> > > >> > > > kisi bartan ko shahad se bharkar bahar> > > >> > > > dabane ka upaya sahayak hoga> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > The correct upaya is to establish at home in> > > >> > > > the south west corner a pot filled with honey.> > > >> > > > Thus the correct upaya is establishing and not burying.> > > >> > > > This has already been discussed here in the group.> > > >> > > > Those who wish to read the logic behind establishing> > > >> > > > can go to the archives and read.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > I began by giving this example to show how> > > >> > > > difficult it is to devise an upaya and more so to> > > >> > > > decide the form of upaya> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > In most cases, the Lal Kitab does not> > > >> > > > explain the form of upaya to be done. It just> > > >> > > > suggests that the upaya for such-n-such planet> > > >> > > > be done e.g. mangal ka upaya madadgar hoga.> > > >> > > > This statement by itself is not very helpful. It is> > > >> > > > the Lalkitabist who has to decide the form of this> > > >> > > > mangal ka upaya. He has to decide whether the> > > >> > > > karaks of mangal are to be immersed in flowing> > > >> > > > water, or gifted at a temple or buried and so on.> > > >> > > > The upaya devised has to be correct and effective.> > > >> > > > This needs a very good understanding of the> > > >> > > > system and a very wide experience.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Let me explain this with an example :> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > For Rahu placed in the Kendra houses, it is advised> > > >> > > > that the upaya should be done of the planet which> > > >> > > > gets exalted in that house.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Therefore, if the Rahu is placed in the 1st house> > > >> > > > and has been identified as malefic then surya ka> > > >> > > > upaya madadgar hoga. Now what should be the> > > >> > > > form of this surya ka upaya. Should we immerse> > > >> > > > the karaks of the Sun in flowing water, or should> > > >> > > > we bury the karaks of the sun, or should we offer> > > >> > > > the karaks of the sun at a temple, or any other> > > >> > > > form of upaya to be devised.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Thankfully in this case it has been indicated that> > > >> > > > the karaks of the Sun should be gifted at a temple.> > > >> > > > This is done to strengthen the Sun so that he> > > >> > > > could withstand the eclipsing ability of Rahu.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > But for the same Rahu in the 10th house the book says:> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > khali mandir se rahu sota, tez swabhav manda ho> > > >> > > > mitra grah par keechad deta, upaya mangal ka uttam ho> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Now in this case no indication has been given as to> > > >> > > > what will be the form of mangal ka upaya, like the> > > >> > > > in the case of Rahu in the 1st house where gifting the> > > >> > > > karaks of Sun has been indicated. Will gifting the karaks> > > >> > > > of mangal at any temple be a correct upaya?> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > If not, then what should be the form of the upaya ?> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > A rahu placed in the 10th can not do any damage to> > > >> > > > Saturn but it will definitely harm the significations> > > >> > > > of the 10th house, be it a job or name or fame. Therefore,> > > >> > > > if the rahu is adjudged as malefic, then an upaya> > > >> > > > will become necessary. So what would be the form> > > >> > > > of the upaya. We know that mangal will help, but in> > > >> > > > what form? It is the Lalkitabist who has to decide the> > > >> > > > form of the upaya.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Since the book says:> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Rahu ka manda asar teve wale par nahi hoga :> > > >> > > > jab mangal nek ho> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > In this case the Rahu has to be brought under control> > > >> > > > such that it is not able to damage the significations of> > > >> > > > the 10th house. Since Mangal shubh alone can control> > > >> > > > Rahu therefore the karak of mangal shubh has to be> > > >> > > > established at home, keep at home a little honey> > > >> > > > in a silver dibbi towards the west. This upaya will> > > >> > > > keep the belligerent Rahu under control.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Now you know the difference. In one case it is gifting> > > >> > > > the karaks which would be an effective upaya where as> > > >> > > > in the next case it is establishing a karak would be an> > > >> > > > effective upaya.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Therefore devising upaya is a science which a> > > >> > > > Lalkitabist has to learn. It comes with time and> > > >> > > > experience. That is why upaya suggested through> > > >> > > > ready reckoners do not work.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Regards,> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Varun Trivedi> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2008 Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 Respected Varun jee, khana 7 ke liye shahad ka bartan madagar hoga woh bilkul sahi hai. agar koi yeh upay nahi karta to kya hoga: potey (grandson) ke janam ke baad ghar mein garibi aa jayegi. Hemant. , " varun_trvd " <varun_trvd wrote: > > > Respected members, > > > > Devising the form of upaya: > > > > > > Lal Kitab 1952 urdu ed page 620 last lines : > > > > Saturn in the 7th house > > > > Khand se bharkar bansari bahar veerane mein > > dabana mubarik, basharte ki Shanishchar soya > > na ho; agar soya ho to shahad ke bartan ka > > upaya madadgar hoga > > > > At the first reading it would appear that if the > > Saturn is not dormant [ soya hua] then bury in > > a barren place a flute filled with desi sugar [ khand ] ; > > if the Saturn is dormant then bury a pot filled with honey. > > > > But it is not so. That is not the correct understanding > > > > > > So much so a well known Lal Kitab scholar > > made a slip when he wrote in his book for Saturn in 7th: > > kisi bartan ko shahad se bharkar bahar > > dabane ka upaya sahayak hoga > > > > > > The correct upaya is to establish at home in > > the south west corner a pot filled with honey. > > Thus the correct upaya is establishing and not burying. > > This has already been discussed here in the group. > > Those who wish to read the logic behind establishing > > can go to the archives and read. > > > > I began by giving this example to show how > > difficult it is to devise an upaya and more so to > > decide the form of upaya > > > > > > In most cases, the Lal Kitab does not > > explain the form of upaya to be done. It just > > suggests that the upaya for such-n-such planet > > be done e.g. mangal ka upaya madadgar hoga. > > This statement by itself is not very helpful. It is > > the Lalkitabist who has to decide the form of this > > mangal ka upaya. He has to decide whether the > > karaks of mangal are to be immersed in flowing > > water, or gifted at a temple or buried and so on. > > The upaya devised has to be correct and effective. > > This needs a very good understanding of the > > system and a very wide experience. > > > > Let me explain this with an example : > > > > For Rahu placed in the Kendra houses, it is advised > > that the upaya should be done of the planet which > > gets exalted in that house. > > > > Therefore, if the Rahu is placed in the 1st house > > and has been identified as malefic then surya ka > > upaya madadgar hoga. Now what should be the > > form of this surya ka upaya. Should we immerse > > the karaks of the Sun in flowing water, or should > > we bury the karaks of the sun, or should we offer > > the karaks of the sun at a temple, or any other > > form of upaya to be devised. > > > > Thankfully in this case it has been indicated that > > the karaks of the Sun should be gifted at a temple. > > This is done to strengthen the Sun so that he > > could withstand the eclipsing ability of Rahu. > > > > But for the same Rahu in the 10th house the book says: > > > > khali mandir se rahu sota, tez swabhav manda ho > > mitra grah par keechad deta, upaya mangal ka uttam ho > > > > Now in this case no indication has been given as to > > what will be the form of mangal ka upaya, like the > > in the case of Rahu in the 1st house where gifting the > > karaks of Sun has been indicated. Will gifting the karaks > > of mangal at any temple be a correct upaya? > > > > If not, then what should be the form of the upaya ? > > > > A rahu placed in the 10th can not do any damage to > > Saturn but it will definitely harm the significations > > of the 10th house, be it a job or name or fame. Therefore, > > if the rahu is adjudged as malefic, then an upaya > > will become necessary. So what would be the form > > of the upaya. We know that mangal will help, but in > > what form? It is the Lalkitabist who has to decide the > > form of the upaya. > > > > Since the book says: > > > > Rahu ka manda asar teve wale par nahi hoga : > > jab mangal nek ho > > > > > > In this case the Rahu has to be brought under control > > such that it is not able to damage the significations of > > the 10th house. Since Mangal shubh alone can control > > Rahu therefore the karak of mangal shubh has to be > > established at home, keep at home a little honey > > in a silver dibbi towards the west. This upaya will > > keep the belligerent Rahu under control. > > > > Now you know the difference. In one case it is gifting > > the karaks which would be an effective upaya where as > > in the next case it is establishing a karak would be an > > effective upaya. > > > > Therefore devising upaya is a science which a > > Lalkitabist has to learn. It comes with time and > > experience. That is why upaya suggested through > > ready reckoners do not work. > > > > Regards, > > > > Varun Trivedi > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2008 Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 Respected Yograj ji, Yes, you are right. I had forgotten to mention this point. Thank you for reminding us all. With regards and great respect, Varun Trivedi , Yograj Prabhakar <yr_prabhakar wrote: > > Respected Umesh ji and Varun bhai > > We are ignoring one very vital point as far as Rahu in khana no. 10 is concerned. Rahu, Ketu and Budh are considered Shaqqi in this house and their behavior/results depends upon the nature of Saturn in the chart. > > Respectfully > Yograj Prabhakar > > > --- On Tue, 6/17/08, varun_trvd varun_trvd wrote: > varun_trvd varun_trvd > LK discussion group Re:Devising the form of an upaya > > Tuesday, June 17, 2008, 11:38 PM > > > > > Respected Umesh ji, > & nbsp; > & nbsp; > RAHU in house # 10 : > & nbsp; > & nbsp;1952 urdu ed : Page 680 ; note # 9 > & nbsp; > Khyali dimagi dhuan bayas pareshani – dimagh > & nbsp;phate ya sar kate ya nazar gum ho jave- aur dhan > daulat par bijli ki tarah manda asar hoga > & nbsp; > & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nb sp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nb sp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp;[ Chandra khana # 4 ] > & nbsp; > While answering to Wandahl ji, the context he > & nbsp;had asked & nbsp;me to explain from was Rahu in the > 10th house. Therefore I had translated the above > & nbsp;lines from the book into English for my answer. > & nbsp; > With great respect and regards, > & nbsp; > Varun Trivedi > > & nbsp; > > , " Umesh Sharma " & lt;mudit982001@ ... & gt; wrote: > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; Respected Varun ji, > & gt; If Moon in 4th and Rahu in 10th the result is > & gt; " Sir Fat Jaye, Rahu ka bura asar Budh ( Budh ki Aashiayan, Karobaar ya > & gt; Rishtedar mutlka Budh ) par hoga. " page no 388 edi.1952, chandrma Khana > & gt; no. 4, Mandi halat Term no. 3. > & gt; Kyonki Rahu jab jab Chandrma se Drishat hoga ya mushtrka hoga vah Budh > & gt; ko khrab karega. > & gt; Gustakhi ki Kashma chahta hoon. > & gt; > & gt; Regards > & gt; > & gt; Umesh Sharma > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; > & gt; , " varun_trvd " > & gt; varun_trvd@ wrote: > & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; Respected Wandahl saheb, > & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; Many thanks for your response. It is a > & gt; & gt; pleasure reading your views. > & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; You have asked ; > & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the > & gt; & gt; 10th it is mentioned that Upay > & gt; & gt; of Mars would be beneficial if there > & gt; & gt; is also Moon in the 4th house. Do you > & gt; & gt; know the reason for this? I think it > & gt; & gt; is difficult to grasp. > & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; As I understand basically it means that > & gt; & gt; in case moon is in the 4th while the > & gt; & gt; Rahu is in the 10th then it would result in: > & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; Foggy and unrealistic thoughts, brain > & gt; & gt; splitting agony, weak eyes, diminished > & gt; & gt; wealth. > & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; If you notice the areas most > & gt; & gt; affected are the karaks of the moon and > & gt; & gt; the reason being that Rahu will have an > & gt; & gt; aspect on the moon. > & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; If that happens then the Mars upaya > & gt; & gt; should be done > & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; with respect and regards, > & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; Varun Trivedi > & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; , " Finn Wandahl " > & gt; & gt; finn.wandahl@ wrote: > & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; Dear Mr. Varun Trivedi, > & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; Thank you for this very inspirating article on Upaya, which I like > & gt; to > & gt; & gt; & gt; say a few things about. However, I have a rather liberal approach to > & gt; & gt; & gt; Upaya as I consider the Upayas mentioned in Lal Kitab to be merely > & gt; & gt; & gt; suggestions and guidelines meant to stimulate the intuition, empathy > & gt; & gt; & gt; and discriminative power of the astrologer to make him create his > & gt; own > & gt; & gt; & gt; remedies depending upon the circumstances, time and place of each > & gt; & gt; & gt; individual client. > & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; You have given Saturn in the 7th house as an example. But normally I > & gt; & gt; & gt; would perhaps not be much concerned about that. After all it is Ucha > & gt; & gt; & gt; (exalted) and even if the 1st house was empty thus making this > & gt; Saturn > & gt; & gt; & gt; sleeping or dormant it would not cause too much alarm except perhaps > & gt; & gt; & gt; if Ketu was ahead of Saturn thereby turning it malefic. In that case > & gt; I > & gt; & gt; & gt; might even consider Ketu the problem, since Ketu is what made this > & gt; & gt; & gt; Saturn Malefic. > & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; Then you say something very interesting about Rahu in kendras where > & gt; & gt; & gt; the planet that gets exalted in the house occupied by Rahu should be > & gt; & gt; & gt; considered for Upay. However, regarding Rahu in the first, it is > & gt; & gt; & gt; alreading said in Lal Kitab that the Sun would be eclipsed, not the > & gt; & gt; & gt; Sun itself but the house occupied by the Sun. > & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; In annual charts, however, I have often had the experience, that it > & gt; is > & gt; & gt; & gt; really the Sun itself that gets eclipsed and destroyed when Rahu is > & gt; in > & gt; & gt; & gt; the first rather than the house occupied by the Sun. Rahu coming to > & gt; & gt; & gt; the 1st house can really destroy the rank and position of a person. > & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; However, the problem with Rahu in the 1st in the context of Upay is > & gt; & gt; & gt; that the Sun is both significator of the first house and also > & gt; exalted > & gt; & gt; & gt; there at the same time, and it make little difference if we involve > & gt; it > & gt; & gt; & gt; in Upay for one reason or the other as long as it is the same > & gt; planet. > & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the 10th it is mentioned that Upay > & gt; & gt; & gt; of Mars would be beneficial if there is also Moon in the 4th house. > & gt; Do > & gt; & gt; & gt; you know the reason for this? I think it is difficult to grasp. > & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; Then if Rahu was in the 7th house, Saturn would hardly be my first > & gt; & gt; & gt; choice for remedy even though it is exalted there. I would no doubt > & gt; & gt; & gt; consider Venus first and perhaps also Mercury if daughters or > & gt; sisters > & gt; & gt; & gt; were involved. > & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; Rahu in the 4th by itself should not be a problem as it has takes > & gt; this > & gt; & gt; & gt; oath not to cause evil when alone or with the Moon in 4th house. I > & gt; & gt; & gt; don't know if remedy of Jupiter could be used in case of Rahu being > & gt; & gt; & gt; malefic in the 4th. I think Moon or perhaps Saturn would be my first > & gt; & gt; & gt; choice in such a case. > & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; Best regards, > & gt; & gt; & gt; Finn Wandahl > & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; @. com, " varun_trvd " > & gt; & gt; & gt; varun_trvd@ wrote: > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Respected members, > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Devising the form of upaya: > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Lal Kitab 1952 urdu ed page 620 last lines : > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Saturn in the 7th house > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Khand se bharkar bansari bahar veerane mein > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; dabana mubarik, basharte ki Shanishchar soya > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; na ho; agar soya ho to shahad ke bartan ka > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; upaya madadgar hoga > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; At the first reading it would appear that if the > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Saturn is not dormant [ soya hua] then bury in > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; a barren place a flute filled with desi sugar [ khand ] ; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; if the Saturn is dormant then bury a pot filled with honey. > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; But it is not so. That is not the correct understanding > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; So much so a well known Lal Kitab scholar > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; made a slip when he wrote in his book for Saturn in 7th: > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; kisi bartan ko shahad se bharkar bahar > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; dabane ka upaya sahayak hoga > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; The correct upaya is to establish at home in > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; the south west corner a pot filled with honey. > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Thus the correct upaya is establishing and not burying. > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; This has already been discussed here in the group. > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Those who wish to read the logic behind establishing > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; can go to the archives and read. > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; I began by giving this example to show how > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; difficult it is to devise an upaya and more so to > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; decide the form of upaya > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; In most cases, the Lal Kitab does not > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; explain the form of upaya to be done. It just > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; suggests that the upaya for such-n-such planet > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; be done e.g. mangal ka upaya madadgar hoga. > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; This statement by itself is not very helpful. It is > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; the Lalkitabist who has to decide the form of this > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; mangal ka upaya. He has to decide whether the > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; karaks of mangal are to be immersed in flowing > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; water, or gifted at a temple or buried and so on. > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; The upaya devised has to be correct and effective. > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; This needs a very good understanding of the > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; system and a very wide experience. > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Let me explain this with an example : > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; For Rahu placed in the Kendra houses, it is advised > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; that the upaya should be done of the planet which > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; gets exalted in that house. > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Therefore, if the Rahu is placed in the 1st house > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; and has been identified as malefic then surya ka > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; upaya madadgar hoga. Now what should be the > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; form of this surya ka upaya. Should we immerse > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; the karaks of the Sun in flowing water, or should > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; we bury the karaks of the sun, or should we offer > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; the karaks of the sun at a temple, or any other > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; form of upaya to be devised. > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Thankfully in this case it has been indicated that > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; the karaks of the Sun should be gifted at a temple. > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; This is done to strengthen the Sun so that he > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; could withstand the eclipsing ability of Rahu. > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; But for the same Rahu in the 10th house the book says: > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; khali mandir se rahu sota, tez swabhav manda ho > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; mitra grah par keechad deta, upaya mangal ka uttam ho > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Now in this case no indication has been given as to > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; what will be the form of mangal ka upaya, like the > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; in the case of Rahu in the 1st house where gifting the > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; karaks of Sun has been indicated. Will gifting the karaks > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; of mangal at any temple be a correct upaya? > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; If not, then what should be the form of the upaya ? > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; A rahu placed in the 10th can not do any damage to > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Saturn but it will definitely harm the significations > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; of the 10th house, be it a job or name or fame. Therefore, > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; if the rahu is adjudged as malefic, then an upaya > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; will become necessary. So what would be the form > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; of the upaya. We know that mangal will help, but in > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; what form? It is the Lalkitabist who has to decide the > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; form of the upaya. > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Since the book says: > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Rahu ka manda asar teve wale par nahi hoga : > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; jab mangal nek ho > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; In this case the Rahu has to be brought under control > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; such that it is not able to damage the significations of > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; the 10th house. Since Mangal shubh alone can control > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Rahu therefore the karak of mangal shubh has to be > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; established at home, keep at home a little honey > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; in a silver dibbi towards the west. This upaya will > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; keep the belligerent Rahu under control. > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Now you know the difference. In one case it is gifting > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; the karaks which would be an effective upaya where as > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; in the next case it is establishing a karak would be an > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; effective upaya. > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Therefore devising upaya is a science which a > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Lalkitabist has to learn. It comes with time and > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; experience. That is why upaya suggested through > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; ready reckoners do not work. > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Regards, > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Varun Trivedi > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; & gt; > & gt; & gt; > & gt; > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2008 Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 Respected Sir,Now there are two Statements in this regards1. page no 386 Moon in 4th house Manda asarNote #3. Sar Fat jaye, Rahu ka manda asar Budh ( Budh ki Aashiyaan, Karobaar ya Rishtedaar__ Mutlka budh) par hoga { Rahu Khana # 10}2. RAHU in house # 10 : 1952 urdu ed : Page 680 ; note # 9 Khyali dimagi dhuan bayas pareshani – dimagh phate ya sar kate ya nazar gum ho jave- aur dhan daulat par bijli ki tarah manda asar hoga [ Chandra khana # 4 ]HOW TO DECIDE WHICH STATEMENT IS APPLICABLE?Bhai yograj ji ki baat bilkul sahi hey par mere hisab se Grah ka Khana main akele bethe hone par honi chahiye. Yahan par to Rahu Chandar se drishat ho raha hey. May be i wrong. With Regards Umesh Sharma #1. Moon in 4th and rahu in 10th , "varun_trvd" <varun_trvd wrote:>> > Respected Umesh ji,> > > > > > RAHU in house # 10 :> > > > 1952 urdu ed : Page 680 ; note # 9> > > > Khyali dimagi dhuan bayas pareshani – dimagh> > phate ya sar kate ya nazar gum ho jave- aur dhan> > daulat par bijli ki tarah manda asar hoga> > > > [ Chandra khana # 4 ]> > > > While answering to Wandahl ji, the context he> > had asked me to explain from was Rahu in the> > 10th house. Therefore I had translated the above> > lines from the book into English for my answer.> > > > With great respect and regards,> > > > Varun Trivedi> > > > > > , "Umesh Sharma"> mudit982001@ wrote:> >> >> > Respected Varun ji,> > If Moon in 4th and Rahu in 10th the result is> > " Sir Fat Jaye, Rahu ka bura asar Budh ( Budh ki Aashiayan, Karobaar> ya> > Rishtedar mutlka Budh ) par hoga." page no 388 edi.1952, chandrma> Khana> > no. 4, Mandi halat Term no. 3.> > Kyonki Rahu jab jab Chandrma se Drishat hoga ya mushtrka hoga vah Budh> > ko khrab karega.> > Gustakhi ki Kashma chahta hoon.> >> > Regards> >> > Umesh Sharma> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > , "varun_trvd"> > varun_trvd@ wrote:> > >> > >> > > Respected Wandahl saheb,> > >> > > Many thanks for your response. It is a> > > pleasure reading your views.> > >> > > You have asked ;> > >> > > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the> > > 10th it is mentioned that Upay> > > of Mars would be beneficial if there> > > is also Moon in the 4th house. Do you> > > know the reason for this? I think it> > > is difficult to grasp.> > >> > > As I understand basically it means that> > > in case moon is in the 4th while the> > > Rahu is in the 10th then it would result in:> > >> > > Foggy and unrealistic thoughts, brain> > > splitting agony, weak eyes, diminished> > > wealth.> > >> > > If you notice the areas most> > > affected are the karaks of the moon and> > > the reason being that Rahu will have an> > > aspect on the moon.> > >> > > If that happens then the Mars upaya> > > should be done> > >> > > with respect and regards,> > >> > > Varun Trivedi> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > , "Finn Wandahl"> > > finn.wandahl@ wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Mr. Varun Trivedi,> > > >> > > > Thank you for this very inspirating article on Upaya, which I like> > to> > > > say a few things about. However, I have a rather liberal approach> to> > > > Upaya as I consider the Upayas mentioned in Lal Kitab to be merely> > > > suggestions and guidelines meant to stimulate the intuition,> empathy> > > > and discriminative power of the astrologer to make him create his> > own> > > > remedies depending upon the circumstances, time and place of each> > > > individual client.> > > >> > > > You have given Saturn in the 7th house as an example. But normally> I> > > > would perhaps not be much concerned about that. After all it is> Ucha> > > > (exalted) and even if the 1st house was empty thus making this> > Saturn> > > > sleeping or dormant it would not cause too much alarm except> perhaps> > > > if Ketu was ahead of Saturn thereby turning it malefic. In that> case> > I> > > > might even consider Ketu the problem, since Ketu is what made this> > > > Saturn Malefic.> > > >> > > > Then you say something very interesting about Rahu in kendras> where> > > > the planet that gets exalted in the house occupied by Rahu should> be> > > > considered for Upay. However, regarding Rahu in the first, it is> > > > alreading said in Lal Kitab that the Sun would be eclipsed, not> the> > > > Sun itself but the house occupied by the Sun.> > > >> > > > In annual charts, however, I have often had the experience, that> it> > is> > > > really the Sun itself that gets eclipsed and destroyed when Rahu> is> > in> > > > the first rather than the house occupied by the Sun. Rahu coming> to> > > > the 1st house can really destroy the rank and position of a> person.> > > >> > > > However, the problem with Rahu in the 1st in the context of Upay> is> > > > that the Sun is both significator of the first house and also> > exalted> > > > there at the same time, and it make little difference if we> involve> > it> > > > in Upay for one reason or the other as long as it is the same> > planet.> > > >> > > > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the 10th it is mentioned that> Upay> > > > of Mars would be beneficial if there is also Moon in the 4th> house.> > Do> > > > you know the reason for this? I think it is difficult to grasp.> > > >> > > > Then if Rahu was in the 7th house, Saturn would hardly be my first> > > > choice for remedy even though it is exalted there. I would no> doubt> > > > consider Venus first and perhaps also Mercury if daughters or> > sisters> > > > were involved.> > > >> > > > Rahu in the 4th by itself should not be a problem as it has takes> > this> > > > oath not to cause evil when alone or with the Moon in 4th house. I> > > > don't know if remedy of Jupiter could be used in case of Rahu> being> > > > malefic in the 4th. I think Moon or perhaps Saturn would be my> first> > > > choice in such a case.> > > >> > > > Best regards,> > > > Finn Wandahl> > > >> > > >> > > > , "varun_trvd"> > > > varun_trvd@ wrote:> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Respected members,> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Devising the form of upaya:> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Lal Kitab 1952 urdu ed page 620 last lines :> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Saturn in the 7th house> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Khand se bharkar bansari bahar veerane mein> > > > >> > > > > dabana mubarik, basharte ki Shanishchar soya> > > > >> > > > > na ho; agar soya ho to shahad ke bartan ka> > > > >> > > > > upaya madadgar hoga> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > At the first reading it would appear that if the> > > > >> > > > > Saturn is not dormant [ soya hua] then bury in> > > > >> > > > > a barren place a flute filled with desi sugar [ khand ] ;> > > > >> > > > > if the Saturn is dormant then bury a pot filled with honey.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > But it is not so. That is not the correct understanding> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > So much so a well known Lal Kitab scholar> > > > >> > > > > made a slip when he wrote in his book for Saturn in 7th:> > > > >> > > > > kisi bartan ko shahad se bharkar bahar> > > > >> > > > > dabane ka upaya sahayak hoga> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > The correct upaya is to establish at home in> > > > >> > > > > the south west corner a pot filled with honey.> > > > >> > > > > Thus the correct upaya is establishing and not burying.> > > > >> > > > > This has already been discussed here in the group.> > > > >> > > > > Those who wish to read the logic behind establishing> > > > >> > > > > can go to the archives and read.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > I began by giving this example to show how> > > > >> > > > > difficult it is to devise an upaya and more so to> > > > >> > > > > decide the form of upaya> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > In most cases, the Lal Kitab does not> > > > >> > > > > explain the form of upaya to be done. It just> > > > >> > > > > suggests that the upaya for such-n-such planet> > > > >> > > > > be done e.g. mangal ka upaya madadgar hoga.> > > > >> > > > > This statement by itself is not very helpful. It is> > > > >> > > > > the Lalkitabist who has to decide the form of this> > > > >> > > > > mangal ka upaya. He has to decide whether the> > > > >> > > > > karaks of mangal are to be immersed in flowing> > > > >> > > > > water, or gifted at a temple or buried and so on.> > > > >> > > > > The upaya devised has to be correct and effective.> > > > >> > > > > This needs a very good understanding of the> > > > >> > > > > system and a very wide experience.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Let me explain this with an example :> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > For Rahu placed in the Kendra houses, it is advised> > > > >> > > > > that the upaya should be done of the planet which> > > > >> > > > > gets exalted in that house.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Therefore, if the Rahu is placed in the 1st house> > > > >> > > > > and has been identified as malefic then surya ka> > > > >> > > > > upaya madadgar hoga. Now what should be the> > > > >> > > > > form of this surya ka upaya. Should we immerse> > > > >> > > > > the karaks of the Sun in flowing water, or should> > > > >> > > > > we bury the karaks of the sun, or should we offer> > > > >> > > > > the karaks of the sun at a temple, or any other> > > > >> > > > > form of upaya to be devised.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Thankfully in this case it has been indicated that> > > > >> > > > > the karaks of the Sun should be gifted at a temple.> > > > >> > > > > This is done to strengthen the Sun so that he> > > > >> > > > > could withstand the eclipsing ability of Rahu.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > But for the same Rahu in the 10th house the book says:> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > khali mandir se rahu sota, tez swabhav manda ho> > > > >> > > > > mitra grah par keechad deta, upaya mangal ka uttam ho> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Now in this case no indication has been given as to> > > > >> > > > > what will be the form of mangal ka upaya, like the> > > > >> > > > > in the case of Rahu in the 1st house where gifting the> > > > >> > > > > karaks of Sun has been indicated. Will gifting the karaks> > > > >> > > > > of mangal at any temple be a correct upaya?> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > If not, then what should be the form of the upaya ?> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > A rahu placed in the 10th can not do any damage to> > > > >> > > > > Saturn but it will definitely harm the significations> > > > >> > > > > of the 10th house, be it a job or name or fame. Therefore,> > > > >> > > > > if the rahu is adjudged as malefic, then an upaya> > > > >> > > > > will become necessary. So what would be the form> > > > >> > > > > of the upaya. We know that mangal will help, but in> > > > >> > > > > what form? It is the Lalkitabist who has to decide the> > > > >> > > > > form of the upaya.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Since the book says:> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Rahu ka manda asar teve wale par nahi hoga :> > > > >> > > > > jab mangal nek ho> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > In this case the Rahu has to be brought under control> > > > >> > > > > such that it is not able to damage the significations of> > > > >> > > > > the 10th house. Since Mangal shubh alone can control> > > > >> > > > > Rahu therefore the karak of mangal shubh has to be> > > > >> > > > > established at home, keep at home a little honey> > > > >> > > > > in a silver dibbi towards the west. This upaya will> > > > >> > > > > keep the belligerent Rahu under control.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Now you know the difference. In one case it is gifting> > > > >> > > > > the karaks which would be an effective upaya where as> > > > >> > > > > in the next case it is establishing a karak would be an> > > > >> > > > > effective upaya.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Therefore devising upaya is a science which a> > > > >> > > > > Lalkitabist has to learn. It comes with time and> > > > >> > > > > experience. That is why upaya suggested through> > > > >> > > > > ready reckoners do not work.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Regards,> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Varun Trivedi> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2008 Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 Respected Umesh ji, My two cents: It is very simple to decide which of the two statements will be operative. If you find the nishaniyan of the first statement to be true then it is the moon you will have to do the upaya for; and if the second statement is found to be true then the upaya will have to be done for rahu. Great regards and respect Varun Trivedi , " Umesh Sharma " <mudit982001 wrote: > > Respected Sir, > Now there are two Statements in this regards > 1. page no 386 Moon in 4th house > Manda asar > Note #3. Sar Fat jaye, Rahu ka manda asar Budh ( Budh ki Aashiyaan, > Karobaar ya Rishtedaar__ Mutlka budh) par hoga { Rahu Khana # 10} > 2. RAHU in house # 10 : > 1952 urdu ed : Page 680 ; note # 9 > Khyali dimagi dhuan bayas pareshani – dimagh > phate ya sar kate ya nazar gum ho jave- aur dhan > daulat par bijli ki tarah manda asar hoga > [ Chandra khana # 4 ] > HOW TO DECIDE WHICH STATEMENT IS APPLICABLE? > Bhai yograj ji ki baat bilkul sahi hey par mere hisab se Grah ka Khana > main akele bethe hone par honi chahiye. Yahan par to Rahu Chandar se > drishat ho raha hey. May be i wrong. > With > Regards > > Umesh Sharma > > > > > #1. Moon in 4th and rahu in 10th > > > > > , " varun_trvd " > <varun_trvd@> wrote: > > > > > > Respected Umesh ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > RAHU in house # 10 : > > > > > > > > 1952 urdu ed : Page 680 ; note # 9 > > > > > > > > Khyali dimagi dhuan bayas pareshani – dimagh > > > > phate ya sar kate ya nazar gum ho jave- aur dhan > > > > daulat par bijli ki tarah manda asar hoga > > > > > > > > [ Chandra khana # 4 ] > > > > > > > > While answering to Wandahl ji, the context he > > > > had asked me to explain from was Rahu in the > > > > 10th house. Therefore I had translated the above > > > > lines from the book into English for my answer. > > > > > > > > With great respect and regards, > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Umesh Sharma " > > mudit982001@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > Respected Varun ji, > > > If Moon in 4th and Rahu in 10th the result is > > > " Sir Fat Jaye, Rahu ka bura asar Budh ( Budh ki Aashiayan, Karobaar > > ya > > > Rishtedar mutlka Budh ) par hoga. " page no 388 edi.1952, chandrma > > Khana > > > no. 4, Mandi halat Term no. 3. > > > Kyonki Rahu jab jab Chandrma se Drishat hoga ya mushtrka hoga vah > Budh > > > ko khrab karega. > > > Gustakhi ki Kashma chahta hoon. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Umesh Sharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " varun_trvd " > > > varun_trvd@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Wandahl saheb, > > > > > > > > Many thanks for your response. It is a > > > > pleasure reading your views. > > > > > > > > You have asked ; > > > > > > > > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the > > > > 10th it is mentioned that Upay > > > > of Mars would be beneficial if there > > > > is also Moon in the 4th house. Do you > > > > know the reason for this? I think it > > > > is difficult to grasp. > > > > > > > > As I understand basically it means that > > > > in case moon is in the 4th while the > > > > Rahu is in the 10th then it would result in: > > > > > > > > Foggy and unrealistic thoughts, brain > > > > splitting agony, weak eyes, diminished > > > > wealth. > > > > > > > > If you notice the areas most > > > > affected are the karaks of the moon and > > > > the reason being that Rahu will have an > > > > aspect on the moon. > > > > > > > > If that happens then the Mars upaya > > > > should be done > > > > > > > > with respect and regards, > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Finn Wandahl " > > > > finn.wandahl@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Mr. Varun Trivedi, > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for this very inspirating article on Upaya, which I > like > > > to > > > > > say a few things about. However, I have a rather liberal > approach > > to > > > > > Upaya as I consider the Upayas mentioned in Lal Kitab to be > merely > > > > > suggestions and guidelines meant to stimulate the intuition, > > empathy > > > > > and discriminative power of the astrologer to make him create > his > > > own > > > > > remedies depending upon the circumstances, time and place of > each > > > > > individual client. > > > > > > > > > > You have given Saturn in the 7th house as an example. But > normally > > I > > > > > would perhaps not be much concerned about that. After all it is > > Ucha > > > > > (exalted) and even if the 1st house was empty thus making this > > > Saturn > > > > > sleeping or dormant it would not cause too much alarm except > > perhaps > > > > > if Ketu was ahead of Saturn thereby turning it malefic. In that > > case > > > I > > > > > might even consider Ketu the problem, since Ketu is what made > this > > > > > Saturn Malefic. > > > > > > > > > > Then you say something very interesting about Rahu in kendras > > where > > > > > the planet that gets exalted in the house occupied by Rahu > should > > be > > > > > considered for Upay. However, regarding Rahu in the first, it is > > > > > alreading said in Lal Kitab that the Sun would be eclipsed, not > > the > > > > > Sun itself but the house occupied by the Sun. > > > > > > > > > > In annual charts, however, I have often had the experience, that > > it > > > is > > > > > really the Sun itself that gets eclipsed and destroyed when Rahu > > is > > > in > > > > > the first rather than the house occupied by the Sun. Rahu coming > > to > > > > > the 1st house can really destroy the rank and position of a > > person. > > > > > > > > > > However, the problem with Rahu in the 1st in the context of Upay > > is > > > > > that the Sun is both significator of the first house and also > > > exalted > > > > > there at the same time, and it make little difference if we > > involve > > > it > > > > > in Upay for one reason or the other as long as it is the same > > > planet. > > > > > > > > > > In the 1952 edition under Rahu in the 10th it is mentioned that > > Upay > > > > > of Mars would be beneficial if there is also Moon in the 4th > > house. > > > Do > > > > > you know the reason for this? I think it is difficult to grasp. > > > > > > > > > > Then if Rahu was in the 7th house, Saturn would hardly be my > first > > > > > choice for remedy even though it is exalted there. I would no > > doubt > > > > > consider Venus first and perhaps also Mercury if daughters or > > > sisters > > > > > were involved. > > > > > > > > > > Rahu in the 4th by itself should not be a problem as it has > takes > > > this > > > > > oath not to cause evil when alone or with the Moon in 4th house. > I > > > > > don't know if remedy of Jupiter could be used in case of Rahu > > being > > > > > malefic in the 4th. I think Moon or perhaps Saturn would be my > > first > > > > > choice in such a case. > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > Finn Wandahl > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " varun_trvd " > > > > > varun_trvd@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected members, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Devising the form of upaya: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lal Kitab 1952 urdu ed page 620 last lines : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn in the 7th house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Khand se bharkar bansari bahar veerane mein > > > > > > > > > > > > dabana mubarik, basharte ki Shanishchar soya > > > > > > > > > > > > na ho; agar soya ho to shahad ke bartan ka > > > > > > > > > > > > upaya madadgar hoga > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At the first reading it would appear that if the > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn is not dormant [ soya hua] then bury in > > > > > > > > > > > > a barren place a flute filled with desi sugar [ khand ] ; > > > > > > > > > > > > if the Saturn is dormant then bury a pot filled with honey. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But it is not so. That is not the correct understanding > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So much so a well known Lal Kitab scholar > > > > > > > > > > > > made a slip when he wrote in his book for Saturn in 7th: > > > > > > > > > > > > kisi bartan ko shahad se bharkar bahar > > > > > > > > > > > > dabane ka upaya sahayak hoga > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct upaya is to establish at home in > > > > > > > > > > > > the south west corner a pot filled with honey. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thus the correct upaya is establishing and not burying. > > > > > > > > > > > > This has already been discussed here in the group. > > > > > > > > > > > > Those who wish to read the logic behind establishing > > > > > > > > > > > > can go to the archives and read. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I began by giving this example to show how > > > > > > > > > > > > difficult it is to devise an upaya and more so to > > > > > > > > > > > > decide the form of upaya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In most cases, the Lal Kitab does not > > > > > > > > > > > > explain the form of upaya to be done. It just > > > > > > > > > > > > suggests that the upaya for such-n-such planet > > > > > > > > > > > > be done e.g. mangal ka upaya madadgar hoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > This statement by itself is not very helpful. It is > > > > > > > > > > > > the Lalkitabist who has to decide the form of this > > > > > > > > > > > > mangal ka upaya. He has to decide whether the > > > > > > > > > > > > karaks of mangal are to be immersed in flowing > > > > > > > > > > > > water, or gifted at a temple or buried and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > The upaya devised has to be correct and effective. > > > > > > > > > > > > This needs a very good understanding of the > > > > > > > > > > > > system and a very wide experience. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me explain this with an example : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For Rahu placed in the Kendra houses, it is advised > > > > > > > > > > > > that the upaya should be done of the planet which > > > > > > > > > > > > gets exalted in that house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, if the Rahu is placed in the 1st house > > > > > > > > > > > > and has been identified as malefic then surya ka > > > > > > > > > > > > upaya madadgar hoga. Now what should be the > > > > > > > > > > > > form of this surya ka upaya. Should we immerse > > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks of the Sun in flowing water, or should > > > > > > > > > > > > we bury the karaks of the sun, or should we offer > > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks of the sun at a temple, or any other > > > > > > > > > > > > form of upaya to be devised. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thankfully in this case it has been indicated that > > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks of the Sun should be gifted at a temple. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is done to strengthen the Sun so that he > > > > > > > > > > > > could withstand the eclipsing ability of Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But for the same Rahu in the 10th house the book says: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > khali mandir se rahu sota, tez swabhav manda ho > > > > > > > > > > > > mitra grah par keechad deta, upaya mangal ka uttam ho > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now in this case no indication has been given as to > > > > > > > > > > > > what will be the form of mangal ka upaya, like the > > > > > > > > > > > > in the case of Rahu in the 1st house where gifting the > > > > > > > > > > > > karaks of Sun has been indicated. Will gifting the karaks > > > > > > > > > > > > of mangal at any temple be a correct upaya? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If not, then what should be the form of the upaya ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A rahu placed in the 10th can not do any damage to > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn but it will definitely harm the significations > > > > > > > > > > > > of the 10th house, be it a job or name or fame. Therefore, > > > > > > > > > > > > if the rahu is adjudged as malefic, then an upaya > > > > > > > > > > > > will become necessary. So what would be the form > > > > > > > > > > > > of the upaya. We know that mangal will help, but in > > > > > > > > > > > > what form? It is the Lalkitabist who has to decide the > > > > > > > > > > > > form of the upaya. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the book says: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu ka manda asar teve wale par nahi hoga : > > > > > > > > > > > > jab mangal nek ho > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this case the Rahu has to be brought under control > > > > > > > > > > > > such that it is not able to damage the significations of > > > > > > > > > > > > the 10th house. Since Mangal shubh alone can control > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu therefore the karak of mangal shubh has to be > > > > > > > > > > > > established at home, keep at home a little honey > > > > > > > > > > > > in a silver dibbi towards the west. This upaya will > > > > > > > > > > > > keep the belligerent Rahu under control. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now you know the difference. In one case it is gifting > > > > > > > > > > > > the karaks which would be an effective upaya where as > > > > > > > > > > > > in the next case it is establishing a karak would be an > > > > > > > > > > > > effective upaya. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore devising upaya is a science which a > > > > > > > > > > > > Lalkitabist has to learn. It comes with time and > > > > > > > > > > > > experience. That is why upaya suggested through > > > > > > > > > > > > ready reckoners do not work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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