Moon in the 11th and restrictions / Wandahl saheb

[Guest guest]

Respected Wandahl saheb,

 

I know you have the original urdu 1942 edition, and I also know that

you can read urdu very well.

 

Sir, read page 49 of 1942 edition: wahami talluq grah va rasi

 

Table at the page end:

 

read the columns oonch and neech and see for yourself which planet

has been mentioned as oonch and neech under which rasi. The table is

talking about the relationship of Rasi to a planet.

 

Not only that, on the next page 50 ; grah va rasi khana ka talluq

 

In the first table once again the rasi and the oonch neech grah are

mentioned.

 

 

Pandit ji himself has accepted the relationship of rasi and the

concept of oonch and neech planet as accepted in Vedic astrology.

 

Sir, If you have read the preamble of our group, we have publically

and in so many words, declared that we do not consider Lal Kitab as

an independent system by itself. We consider Lal Kitab as a sub

system of Vedic astrology, an intregal part of Vedic astrology. It

is a paddhati like many others within the fold of Vedic astrology.

 

If you have noticed our entire effort over the past few years has

been to bridge the gap between Lal Kitab and vedic astrology because

we genuinely believe that this gap had been artificially created by

a handful of people. Pandit Roopchand ji never treated Lal Kitab as

different from Vedic astrology, nor he intended that it be treated

any differently in future. When he talked about the oft

quoted 'nakashtra chhora...', all he meant was that I have

simplified the knowledge of astrology; I have done away with all the

jargon of astrology. He never meant that I am proposing an entirely

new system unrelated to vedic astrology.

 

Sir, Shadbal is an astrology tool to help assess the strength of a

planet. It is not a vedic astrology specific or Lal Kitab specific

tool. All tools are neutral in nature. We should use all available

tools so that we are as accurate as possible. Precision is never

undesirable.

 

With lots of regards,

 

Varun Trivedi

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, " Finn Wandahl "

<finn.wandahl wrote:

>

> Dear Mr. Varun Trivedi,

>

> >>...But it should be done if the moon is weak in the shadbal [six

> fold strength]...<<

>

> Perhaps it is only fair to mention in this connection that Pt.

Krishna

> Ashant has shown a very liberal approach to to certain Lal Kitab

> principles. In one of his books he advocates the use exaltation and

> debilitation by zodiacal signs, which is not supported by Lal

Kitab.

>

> In a public Lal Kitab-forum like this it is also fair to mention

that

> the question of whether the Moon is weak or strong in Shadbala

> (six-fold strength) has no place at all in connection with Lal

Kitab.

> It must be considered an interpolation, since nothing can be found

> about it in any of Roop Chand Joshi's books.

>

> If we deviate from the Lal Kitab-teachings in public, then we

should

> admit doing so, not to create unnecessary confusion about the

concepts

> of Lal Kitab.

>

> Best regards,

> Finn Wandahl

>

>

> , " varun_trvd "

> <varun_trvd@> wrote:

> >

> > Respected Raheja ji,

> >

> > Pt. Krishna Ashant ji is a living legend as far as the Lal Kitab

is

> > concerned. It is through his books, people like us got

interested in

> > the Lal Kitab. One great thing about him is that he is equally

well

> > versed in Vedic astrology.

> >

> > Next time when you meet him, convey our most humble regards to

him.

> > It is a matter of great honour that a person of Pt Krishna

Ashant

> > ji's stature takes interest in what is being discussed in this

> > group. It appears we have come of age.

> >

> > Now coming to our views about the moon in the 10th and the

> > restrictions; yes, one should follow them, may be as a

precaution,

> > not only for the moon in the 10th house but when the moon is in

the

> > 8th house [ debility ] also. But it should be done if the moon

is

> > weak in the shadbal [ six fold strength ] and is not supported

by

> > other friendly planets.

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Varun Trivedi

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Mr. Varun Trivedi,

 

Thank you very much for your kind, clear and very interesting reply to

my earlier message. I am well aware that you consider Lal Kitab to be

a sub-system or branch of traditional Hindu astrology. This can also

to some extent be argued from some lines of Lal Kitab itself.

 

I am also aware of some of the things that has happened since the

death of late Pt. Roop Chand Joshi, like certain individuals turning

Lal Kitab into almost a religious cult-matter, which I think was

absolutely never the intention of Pt. Roop Chand Joshi. This

unpleasant trend can however also be observed with some of the

followers of the K.P.-system (Krishnamurthi Padhdhathi). Who knows?

Perhaps this is a kind of automatic or natural development that often

happens when a great scholar dies and his followers are left in a void

or a vacuum that needs to be filled up one way or the other.

 

SHADBALA: It can be argued that Shadbala (i.e. the popular method of

calculating six-fold-strength in Rupas) has changed from its original

position the way it was first explained in Varaha Mihira's Brihat

Jataka into a kind of mathematical absurdity lacking in logical

substance, which is what we have got today, where six different

methods of measuring the strength of planets have been

indiscriminately mixed together, which is like counting apples and

bananas equal.

 

However, I do think each of the six methods involved in Shadbala serve

their individual purposes and to some extent they actually seem to

have a resemblance with certain principles from the Lal Kitab Grammar.

Please let me give some few examples from memory.

 

One of these six sources of strength is Sthanabala which is mainly the

judgement of the planetary position in exaltation, debilitation, own

sign, friendly sign, enimical sign ect. and it is sometimes

difficultult to understand whether Brihat Jataka means houses or

signs, because the word Sthana can mean both. Taken in this context

Sthanabala is most certain included in the very basic rules of Lal Kitab.

 

Then there is a kind of strength called Kalabala, which means

judgement of strength by time. Here Moon, Mars ans Saturn are strong

by night-time, and the others by day-time. Here the horoscope is

divided into 1st half and 2nd half, just like in Lal Kitab and the

principal involved also rings a bell. Also in this method malefics are

strong in Krishna Paksha and benefics in shukla Paksha. In addition

each planet gets this strength in its own weekday, month ect., which

is also in tune with Lal Kitab

 

Finally there is a kind of strength called Naisargikabala, which means

something like natural strength, depending upon the degree of light of

the planets, where the sun is the brightest, followed in order by

Moon, Venus, Jupiter, Mercury, Mars and finally Saturn. However this

order of the planets is exactly the same as given in Lal Kitab 1952

edition which the only exception that Rahu and Ketu are included in

Lal Kitab. (Please refer page 76 #18 of Goswami & Vashisth's English

translation.)

 

Best regards,

Finn Wandahl

[Guest guest]

Respected Wandahl saheb,

 

Thank you very much.

 

We share your concern when you said:

 

" > I am also aware of some of the things that has happened since

the death of late Pt. Roop Chand Joshi, like certain individuals

turning Lal Kitab into almost a religious cult-matter, which I think

was absolutely never the intention of Pt. Roop Chand Joshi. "

 

We are grateful that you have pointed out how shadbal is also

incorporated in the Lal Kitab Paddhati.

 

Thank you once again.

 

With lots of regards,

 

Varun Trivedi

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, " Finn Wandahl "

<finn.wandahl wrote:

>

> Dear Mr. Varun Trivedi,

>

> Thank you very much for your kind, clear and very interesting

reply to

> my earlier message. I am well aware that you consider Lal Kitab to

be

> a sub-system or branch of traditional Hindu astrology. This can

also

> to some extent be argued from some lines of Lal Kitab itself.

>

> I am also aware of some of the things that has happened since the

> death of late Pt. Roop Chand Joshi, like certain individuals

turning

> Lal Kitab into almost a religious cult-matter, which I think was

> absolutely never the intention of Pt. Roop Chand Joshi. This

> unpleasant trend can however also be observed with some of the

> followers of the K.P.-system (Krishnamurthi Padhdhathi). Who knows?

> Perhaps this is a kind of automatic or natural development that

often

> happens when a great scholar dies and his followers are left in a

void

> or a vacuum that needs to be filled up one way or the other.

>

> SHADBALA: It can be argued that Shadbala (i.e. the popular method

of

> calculating six-fold-strength in Rupas) has changed from its

original

> position the way it was first explained in Varaha Mihira's Brihat

> Jataka into a kind of mathematical absurdity lacking in logical

> substance, which is what we have got today, where six different

> methods of measuring the strength of planets have been

> indiscriminately mixed together, which is like counting apples and

> bananas equal.

>

> However, I do think each of the six methods involved in Shadbala

serve

> their individual purposes and to some extent they actually seem to

> have a resemblance with certain principles from the Lal Kitab

Grammar.

> Please let me give some few examples from memory.

>

> One of these six sources of strength is Sthanabala which is mainly

the

> judgement of the planetary position in exaltation, debilitation,

own

> sign, friendly sign, enimical sign ect. and it is sometimes

> difficultult to understand whether Brihat Jataka means houses or

> signs, because the word Sthana can mean both. Taken in this context

> Sthanabala is most certain included in the very basic rules of Lal

Kitab.

>

> Then there is a kind of strength called Kalabala, which means

> judgement of strength by time. Here Moon, Mars ans Saturn are

strong

> by night-time, and the others by day-time. Here the horoscope is

> divided into 1st half and 2nd half, just like in Lal Kitab and the

> principal involved also rings a bell. Also in this method malefics

are

> strong in Krishna Paksha and benefics in shukla Paksha. In addition

> each planet gets this strength in its own weekday, month ect.,

which

> is also in tune with Lal Kitab

>

> Finally there is a kind of strength called Naisargikabala, which

means

> something like natural strength, depending upon the degree of

light of

> the planets, where the sun is the brightest, followed in order by

> Moon, Venus, Jupiter, Mercury, Mars and finally Saturn. However

this

> order of the planets is exactly the same as given in Lal Kitab 1952

> edition which the only exception that Rahu and Ketu are included in

> Lal Kitab. (Please refer page 76 #18 of Goswami & Vashisth's

English

> translation.)

>

> Best regards,

> Finn Wandahl

>