Guest guest Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Dear Kulbir bhai, The passage under discussion as it appears on page 347 of the 1942 book : Kundali ke khana # 1 se chal kar agar 9 ve ko javen ya makan se bahar ko nikalen to jis tarf daayan hath hoga is taraf makan ke tamam grah jo khana 1 se 8 tak honge apana saboot denge Isi tarah barah number khane se apane aap ko khana 9 ki taraf aate huye gine ya makan mein bahar se aakar dakhil hone lagen to khana # 12 se 12, 11, 10 ke gharon ke grah daayeen taraf makan ke saboot denge. This is how I have understood the passage, I could be wrong. I am explaining the passage in segments so that it is convenient to understand. [ A ] Kundali ke khana # 1 se chal kar agar 9 ve ko javen - Here the opening word of the sentence is kundali and not the makan kundali. Therefore the author is talking about the Janma kundali and not about the makan kundali. Thus the sentence means that if one enters the Janma kundali from the house # 1 and moves towards the house # 9. [ B ] ya makan se bahar ko nikalen This segment could cause a bit of confusion. Here the segment does not mean that the person turns around to get out of the house because the word ‘wapas bahar ko nikale’ has not been used. This segment simply means : if he person goes across i.e. if a person goes across or cuts across from khana # 1 to khana # 9. In other words this segment simply means ‘imagine yourself entering from the house # 1 and going out through # 9’ . Remember this is just ‘ imagine’. It should not be taken literally nor it should not be taken to mean that there is a door at khana # 9. This means draw an imaginery line from # 1 cutting across from # 9. [ C ] to jis tarf daayan hath hoga is taraf makan ke tamam grah jo khana 1 se 8 tak honge apana saboot denge. There is no confusion in this segment. What it says is true. [ D ] Isi tarah barah number khane se apane aap ko khana 9 ki taraf aate huye gine In the segment [ A ] above the author turns right after entering the Janma Kundali khana # 1 towards khana # 2…3.. 4..etc. In this segment he simply means that after entering the Janma Kundali from the house #1 if you turn Left towards khana # 9 through 12…11…10 [ E ] ya makan mein bahar se aakar dakhil hone lagen In other words enter the house from out side. Then: [ F ] to khana # 12 se 12, 11, 10 ke gharon ke grah daayeen taraf makan ke saboot denge. I have a problem in this segment. It is here I suspect that there is a mistake. The word daayeen taraf should read baayeen taraf. Otherwise there is no confusion or problem with this segment. I have explained the way I have understood the passage. If you have understood the passage any differently, you can share with us. Have a nice day Varun , "kulbirbance" <kulbirbance wrote:>> Varun ji> > > > dayein bayein baad me likha hai uske baare baad me hi> sochna; uske pehle khanna no 1 se 9 bahar ka rasta; 12 se 9 andar ka> rasta. to yah to 12 aur 9 ik hi direction hue ke aur ya phir 1 aur> 12 opposite hue aur 9 hua centre. agar ghar ka darwaza ik hi hai to> 12, 9 same hi hue yani ki gate ki taraf.> pehle iska to kuch to jawab do> baad ki line baad mein.> it doesn't suits you that you ignore the lines you don't understand> and make dayein to bayein as it suits you.> either bring a solution to the whole paragraph or please don't do> unneccessary ched chad with one word.> > > > kulbirbance> > > > > > > > > > , "varun_trvd"> varun_trvd@ wrote:> >> > Dear Kulbir Bhai,> >> >> >> > ISI TARAH AGAR 12 NO. KHAANE SE APNE AAPKO KHANA NO. 9 KI TARAF> AATEY> > HUVE GINE YA MAKAAN MAIN BAAHAR SE AAKAR DAAKHIL HONE LAGAIN TO> KHANA> > NO. 12 SE 12, 11 10 KE GHARON KE GRAH --DAAYEN (right) TARAF> MAKAAN KE> > --SABOOT DENGEY.........> >> > In this text which appears on page 206 of the 1952 urdu edition> and also> > on page 347 or the 1942 edition I suspect [ I said suspect because> I do> > not have a proof yet ] that there is a mistake.> >> > The words marked red ' daayen' should read 'baayen' [ left ]. If> the> > correct word is 'baayen' then the entire question is over.> >> > Even if I do not get any proof, till then logically my mind will> not> > accept the text with the word 'daayen' and I will mark the passage> as> > 'unresolved'.> >> > Therefore I have stopped thinking about it till such time that> some one> > explains the logic of the word daayen to me or I find some proof> that> > there is a mistake in the original book.> >> > Regards,> >> > Varun> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > , "kulbirbance"> > <kulbirbance@> wrote:> > >> > > gurudev> > >> > > zara dekho aap kya likh rahe ho khanna no 1se 9 ko jate aap> > > ghar ke bhittar reach kar rahe ho kitab kahti hai 1 se 9 jate> waqt> > > bahar jana mana hai. tell me if i am wrong.> > > aap bhitar to 1 se 9 ke raaste se hi aaye na to baat nahin bani> > > kyonki likha hai 1 se chalkar 9 vein ko jayein ya makan ke bahar> ko> > > niklein. aur 12 se 9 ko ghar ke bhittar aana mana hai. ab batao> 12> > > aur 9 ik direction me hue ya nahin par pehla swaal yeh ki 1 se 9> ko> > > chalte aap bahar kaise ja rahe ho. isi liye maine khanna no9 ki> > > position ke bare poocha tha. uparlikhat se to khanna no 9 sahan> > > bilkul nahin lagta kyonki aap sahan se bahar darwaze par ja rahe> ho.> > > itni choti baat ke liye aapko pareshan nahin karta.> > >> > > kulbirbance.> > >> > >> > > , "varun_trvd"> > > varun_trvd@ wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Kulbir Bhai,> > > >> > > > After reaching the aangan [ house # 9 ] I will have to turn> around> > > > and walk back to the gate I entered from.> > > >> > > > Regards,> > > >> > > > Varun> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > , "kulbirbance"> > > > <kulbirbance@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > varun ji> > > > >> > > > > agar khanna no 9 makan ka sahan ya aangan hoga to khanna no> > > > > 1 se 9 ko jakar aap makan se bahar kaise nikal sakte hain> please> > > > > give it a thought.> > > > >> > > > > kulbirbance> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > , "varun_trvd"> > > > > <varun_trvd@> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Kulbir bhai,> > > > > >> > > > > > khana # 9 kisi bhi makan ka sahan ya aangan hoga. Purane> zamane> > > > > mein> > > > > > sabhi makano mein aagan ghar ke beech mein hota tha. aagan> ke> > > > > charon> > > > > > tarf kothari ya kamare or varandah hota tha. Bath room to> ghar> > > > > mein> > > > > > hi hota tha lekin latrine ghar ke bahar hoti thi.> > > > > >> > > > > > Kuch zamidar gharon mein do [ two ] aangan hote the, ek> mardana> > > > > aur> > > > > > ek zanana.> > > > > >> > > > > > Aksar sabhi gharon ka ek sa hi naqsha hota tha, bahar ki> tarf> > > > > > baithak / chaupal, kua , ghori bandhne ki jagah, phir andar> > > > sahan,> > > > > > jiske charon taraf kamare.> > > > > >> > > > > > have a nice day,> > > > > >> > > > > > Varun> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > , "kulbir bance"> > > > > > <kulbirbance@> wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Varun ji agar, makkan kundali ki baat karein to khanna> no 9> > > > > > hamesha makkan> > > > > > > ka centre hoga ya koi aur jagah bhi ho sakti hai.> > > > > > > kulbirbance> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > On 4/1/08, varun_trvd <varun_trvd@> wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Dear Kulbir Bhai,> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > If we are talking about the khana as marked in a Makan> > > > > Kundali,> > > > > > then> > > > > > > > how can khana # 3 & 8 be on the right while entering ?> > > These> > > > > two> > > > > > > > houses represent south. These two house can be on the> right> > > > > only> > > > > > if> > > > > > > > we enter the house from the west gate.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Yes in the Janma Kundali if we enter from the first> house [> > > > > > lagna ]> > > > > > > > and go upto the 9th in a zodiac sequence then only> houses> > > > from> > > > > 1> > > > > > to> > > > > > > > 8 can be on the right.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Therefore let's be clear which directions are we> talking> > > > about?> > > > > > > > Directions in a Makan Kundali or the directions in a> Janma> > > > > > Kundali ?> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Just a thought.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Have a nice day> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Varun> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > --- In> > > > <%> > > > > > 40>,> > > > > > > > "kulbirbance"> > > > > > > > <kulbirbance@> wrote:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > umesh ji seems right, the directions change when the> > > > > position> > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > observer changes. when we enter the place the side> which> > > is> > > > > on> > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > right side chages to left when we move out.> therefore it> > > > can> > > > > be> > > > > > > > > safely concluded that when we enter the house items> via> > > > > planets> > > > > > > > > posited representing house no 1 to 8 are on right> side,> > > 10-> > > > > 12> > > > > > on> > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > left side and house no.9 is the referance point. i.e.> > > > > > directions> > > > > > > > turn> > > > > > > > > like a mirror image i think it is called lateral> > > inversion;> > > > > > when> > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > person going in turns his back towards the house.i.e> > > > changes> > > > > > his> > > > > > > > > direction to the referance point i.e. house no9.> > > > > > > > > kulbirbance.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > ---- In> > > > > > <%> > > > > > 40>,> > > > > > > > "Umesh Sharma"> > > > > > > > > <mudit982001@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Respected Lalkitabee Ji,> > > > > > > > > > In my view this statement has Two different terms.> > > > > > > > > > 1. KUNDALI KE KHANA NO. 1 SE CHALKAR AGAR NAUVAIN> KO> > > > > > > > > > JAYAIN YA MAKAAN SE BAAHAR KO NIKALAIN TO JIS> TARAF -> > > > DAYAAN> > > > > > > > (right)> > > > > > > > > > HAATH HOGAA- US TARAF MAKAAN KE TAMAAM GRAH JO> KHANA> > > NO.> > > > 1> > > > > SE> > > > > > > > 8> > > > > > > > > TAK HO> > > > > > > > > > APNA SABOOT DENGEY.> > > > > > > > > > 2. ISI TARAH AGAR 12 NO. KHAANE SE APNE AAPKO KHANA> > > > > > > > > > > NO. 9 KI TARAF AATEY HUVE GINE YA MAKAAN MAIN> BAAHAR> > > SE> > > > > > AAKAR> > > > > > > > > DAAKHIL> > > > > > > > > > > HONE LAGAIN TO KHANA NO. 12 SE 12, 11 10 KE> GHARON KE> > > > > > GRAH --> > > > > > > > > DAAYEN> > > > > > > > > > > (right) TARAF MAKAAN KE --SABOOT DENGEY.> > > > > > > > > > 1. In first term the person go out side from house.> > > > > > > > > > 2. In 2nd term the persaon come in side from out> side.> > > > > > > > > > Both are opposite directins.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Regards> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Umesh Sharma> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > --- In> > > > > > <%> > > > > > 40>,> > > > > > > > "lalkitabee"> > > > > > > > > > <lalkitabee@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Bhai Yograj ji> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > aapka lalkitab ke original 5 version bina kisi> > > swarth> > > > ke> > > > > > logo> > > > > > > > main> > > > > > > > > > > baantnaa samaaj ke liye ek aisa yogdaan hai jise> ki> > > > aane> > > > > > wale> > > > > > > > > samay> > > > > > > > > > > main kabhi bhi nahi bhulaayaa ja saktaa. Aapne> ise is> > > > > roop> > > > > > > > main> > > > > > > > > jis> > > > > > > > > > > tarah se surakshit kiyaa hai, vah appki udaartaa> ka> > > > > > parichayak> > > > > > > > > hai.It> > > > > > > > > > > is a great work of great soul like u.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Lekin Yograj ji, in 5 books ke baad aglaa daur> jo ab> > > > > shuru> > > > > > hua> > > > > > > > hai> > > > > > > > > > > iski kalpana kuchh logon ke man main aaj se 3> varsh> > > > > pehley> > > > > > hee> > > > > > > > > thi aur> > > > > > > > > > > uske liye kuchh prayaas kiye gaye, jinhain kuchh> > > logon> > > > > ne> > > > > > Urdu> > > > > > > > vs> > > > > > > > > > > Hindi/Dalda ka khitaab dekar darkinaar kar diyaa> aur> > > > > khud> > > > > > ko> > > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > tarah> > > > > > > > > > se> > > > > > > > > > > expose kiyaa ki shayad pujyaa pandit ji ki Rooh> > > unhain> > > > > > lalkitab> > > > > > > > > > samjhaa> > > > > > > > > > > kar jaa rahi hai aur unki baat ko hooob-hoo maan> > > liyaa> > > > > > jaye.> > > > > > > > > Lalkitab> > > > > > > > > > > ki lines main ooper neechey ,aage peechey> ghumaakar> > > ve> > > > > log> > > > > > > > kyaa> > > > > > > > > sabit> > > > > > > > > > > karnaa chahtey they samajh nahi aayaa, aaj aap> khud> > > ko> > > > > hee> > > > > > > > dekho> > > > > > > > > aap> > > > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > urdu bahut badhia jaantey hain fir bhi galati to> ho> > > hi> > > > > > jaati> > > > > > > > hai,> > > > > > > > > arre> > > > > > > > > > > bhai insaan galatiyon ka putlaa hai,Jaise aap> galati> > > > kar> > > > > > > > saktey> > > > > > > > > hain> > > > > > > > > > aur> > > > > > > > > > > bhi kar saktey hain, aaj groups main hum sabhi> isliye> > > > > > ikatthey> > > > > > > > > hotey> > > > > > > > > > > hain taaki hum log galatiyon aur bhrantoyon se> alag> > > > > hatkar> > > > > > > > gyaan> > > > > > > > > ek> > > > > > > > > > > doosrey ke jariye prapt kar sakain.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Chalo chhodo in baaton ko aur jaraa Original> Lalkitab> > > > > 1952> > > > > > ke> > > > > > > > > > > page no. 206 par "GRAH KUNDALI KI MAKAAN KE> HISAB SE> > > > > > DURUSTI> > > > > > > > par> > > > > > > > > nazar> > > > > > > > > > > daalo,likhaa hai ki ---KUNDALI KE KHANA NO. 1 SE> > > > CHALKAR> > > > > > AGAR> > > > > > > > > NAUVAIN> > > > > > > > > > KO> > > > > > > > > > > JAYAIN YA MAKAAN SE BAAHAR KO NIKALAIN TO JIS> TARAF -> > > > > DAYAAN> > > > > > > > > (right)> > > > > > > > > > > HAATH HOGAA- US TARAF MAKAAN KE TAMAAM GRAH JO> KHANA> > > > NO.> > > > > 1> > > > > > SE> > > > > > > > 8> > > > > > > > > TAK HO> > > > > > > > > > > APNA SABOOT DENGEY, ISI TARAH AGAR 12 NO. KHAANE> SE> > > > APNE> > > > > > AAPKO> > > > > > > > > KHANA> > > > > > > > > > > NO. 9 KI TARAF AATEY HUVE GINE YA MAKAAN MAIN> BAAHAR> > > SE> > > > > > AAKAR> > > > > > > > > DAAKHIL> > > > > > > > > > > HONE LAGAIN TO KHANA NO. 12 SE 12, 11 10 KE> GHARON KE> > > > > > GRAH --> > > > > > > > > DAAYEN> > > > > > > > > > > (right) TARAF MAKAAN KE --SABOOT DENGEY.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Kyaa aisa nahi lag rahaa hai ki yahaan par bhi> kuchh> > > > > > > > contradiction> > > > > > > > > > > hai. Dono hee tarah makan ke daayeen taraf> saboot.> > > > Mujhe> > > > > > > > lagtaa> > > > > > > > > hai ki> > > > > > > > > > > yahaan par bhi lalkitab main shayd misprint hai> ya> > > > > galati> > > > > > ki> > > > > > > > > gunjaish> > > > > > > > > > > hai. Aapkaa kyaa vichaar hai? Kyon na hum aur> baaton> > > > par> > > > > > jor> > > > > > > > dene> > > > > > > > > ki> > > > > > > > > > > bajaay is muddey par discussion ko continue> karain.> > > > Agar> > > > > > meraa> > > > > > > > > shak> > > > > > > > > > > jayaj hai to is par gaur kiyaa jaaaye, agar> najayaz> > > hai> > > > > to> > > > > > > > uskaa> > > > > > > > > > > khulaasa karne ki taqleef karain. Rahee baat> shikve> > > > > > shikayat> > > > > > > > ki--> > > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > yograaj ji vo to chaltey hee rahengey, Koyee> gyaan> > > lene> > > > > ke> > > > > > > > liye> > > > > > > > > group> > > > > > > > > > > main aayaa ,koyee dene ke liye, koyee paise> batorne> > > to> > > > > > koyee> > > > > > > > chele> > > > > > > > > > > ikatthey karney main bhi interested ho saktaaa> hai.> > > In> > > > > sab> > > > > > > > baaton> > > > > > > > > ka> > > > > > > > > > > koyee tharmameter to hai nahi . Who is queen & > who is> > > > > > maid ,> > > > > > > > it> > > > > > > > > shudnt> > > > > > > > > > > be motive all of us.Kyon group main shikvey> shikayat> > > > par> > > > > > jor> > > > > > > > de> > > > > > > > > rahey> > > > > > > > > > > ho.Aur apni taraf se main ek baat saaf karnaa> chahtaa> > > > > hoon> > > > > > ki> > > > > > > > > maine> > > > > > > > > > > Aaina dikhane ki baat un logo ke liye likhi thi> > > > > > jo ,lalkitab> > > > > > > > ke> > > > > > > > > babat> > > > > > > > > > > poochhey gaye sawaal ke jawab main bola kartey> they> > > ki> > > > > > > > > > ---PROFESSIONALS> > > > > > > > > > > LE UDENGEY -isliye bolnaa thik nahi. aaj is group> > > main> > > > > ek> > > > > > ek> > > > > > > > baat> > > > > > > > > kee> > > > > > > > > > > tafseel dene ki koshish ki ja rahee hai, aur to> aur> > > > > > lalkitab> > > > > > > > ki> > > > > > > > > mool> > > > > > > > > > > pustak ki bhi galatiyaan pakdi jaa rahee hain aur> > > > > > > > professionals> > > > > > > > > bhi> > > > > > > > > > > khulkar bol rahey hain jahaan tak unhain pataa> hai.> > > To> > > > > ve> > > > > > log> > > > > > > > aaj> > > > > > > > > kis> > > > > > > > > > > gufaa main jaakar baith gaye hain. Sahee maayno> main> > > to> > > > > > shayad> > > > > > > > > aaj is> > > > > > > > > > > group ke yogdaan se ve bhi seekh rahey hongey ki> > > > > lalkitab> > > > > > ko> > > > > > > > kaise> > > > > > > > > > > padhaa jaye. QAIYDEY KI TARAH YA EK RESEARCH> ORIENTED> > > > > > GRANTH> > > > > > > > KI> > > > > > > > > TARAH.> > > > > > > > > > > agar meri baat theek nahi to un logon ko yahaan> par> > > > > shirkat> > > > > > > > jaroor> > > > > > > > > > karni> > > > > > > > > > > chahiye.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Mere red words ki baabat discussion ko roop dene> ka> > > > kash> > > > > > > > karain.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Pt.lalkitabee> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > V.Shukla> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Maharaj;> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > i didn't take anyone's name; how did u reach> the> > > > > > conclusion> > > > > > > > > that it> > > > > > > > > > > > is aimed at you. to be very frank i had bhatia> ji> > > in> > > > > > mind.> > > > > > > > > nowhere> > > > > > > > > > did> > > > > > > > > > > u cut> > > > > > > > > > > > my viewpoint; it was all started by bhatia ji> when> > > i> > > > > > asked> > > > > > > > him> > > > > > > > > about> > > > > > > > > > > his> > > > > > > > > > > > foot note and it's authenticity. i am sorry i> have> > > to> > > > > go> > > > > > > > > personal on> > > > > > > > > > > record> > > > > > > > > > > > but just check; he comes in various forums;> tries> > > to> > > > > be a> > > > > > > > > bhisham> > > > > > > > > > > pitama but> > > > > > > > > > > > gets lost whenever any logical thing is to be> > > > > discussed.> > > > > > you> > > > > > > > > know i> > > > > > > > > > > have> > > > > > > > > > > > proof of many other things about participation> but> > > > > don't> > > > > > > > want to> > > > > > > > > > > derail the> > > > > > > > > > > > process of ongoing discussions by starting a> new> > > > > > controversy;> > > > > > > > > > > > would you please be kind enough to let me know> as> > > to> > > > > > where> > > > > > > > did> > > > > > > > > my> > > > > > > > > > mail> > > > > > > > > > > point> > > > > > > > > > > > towards you or in which manner did u interpret> it.> > > > > > > > > > > > baundale hoe bande nu jhunda te paya kapda wi> bhoot> > > > > pret> > > > > > hi> > > > > > > > > lagda so> > > > > > > > > > > just> > > > > > > > > > > > have a deep breath and reanalyse.> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > kulbirbains.> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/31/08, Yograj Prabhakar yr_prabhakar@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Varun jee> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > The tragedy is not only what you have> mentioned.> > > > > > Another> > > > > > > > great> > > > > > > > > > > tragedy is> > > > > > > > > > > > > that whoever found a "Sonth Kee Ganth" starts> > > > > thinking> > > > > > > > > himself a> > > > > > > > > > > > > "Pansaaree", unfortunately we all are> suffering> > > > from> > > > > > this> > > > > > > > > fatal> > > > > > > > > > > disease.> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > There are two kinds of people in Lal> Kitab, "Dil> > > > > > Waley" and> > > > > > > > > > "Deemagh> > > > > > > > > > > Wale"> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dil waley has more Josh than Hosh whereas> Deemagh> > > > > Waley> > > > > > > > has> > > > > > > > > more> > > > > > > > > > > Hosh but> > > > > > > > > > > > > less Josh. Both are actually complimentary to> > > each> > > > > > other. A> > > > > > > > > > perfect> > > > > > > > > > > blend of> > > > > > > > > > > > > Josh and Hosh is a must to achieve anything.> Dil> > > > > Walon> > > > > > ne> > > > > > > > toh> > > > > > > > > > Pundit> > > > > > > > > > > jee ke> > > > > > > > > > > > > 5 Anmol Rattan bataur Prashad dunia bhar ko> baant> > > > > kar> > > > > > apne> > > > > > > > > sir se> > > > > > > > > > > Kitab ka> > > > > > > > > > > > > Rinn Utaar diya hai. Ab iski Roshni ko duniya> > > bhar> > > > > mein> > > > > > > > > phailaney> > > > > > > > > > ki> > > > > > > > > > > > > zimmewaree "Deemagh Walon" ki bhi hai. Agar> aaj> > > Ek> > > > > Ek> > > > > > lafz> > > > > > > > > aur Ek> > > > > > > > > > Ek> > > > > > > > > > > logic> > > > > > > > > > > > > par agar debate> > > > > > > > > > > > > ho rahi hai to yaqeen karna, is baat kee> khushi> > > > mujh> > > > > se> > > > > > > > zyada> > > > > > > > > > shayad> > > > > > > > > > > hi> > > > > > > > > > > > > kisi aur ko hogi. It is not necessary that we> > > agree> > > > > > with> > > > > > > > each> > > > > > > > > > other> > > > > > > > > > > on every> > > > > > > > > > > > > point. Every individual has his own way of> > > seeing> > > > the> > > > > > > > things,> > > > > > > > > we> > > > > > > > > > > must not> > > > > > > > > > > > > raise question mark on that. Fot some Lal> Kitab> > > is> > > > > > > > > just "another> > > > > > > > > > > book" of> > > > > > > > > > > > > astrology, for many it is sacrosanct or> divine> > > > > > scripture,> > > > > > > > > whats> > > > > > > > > > > wrong with> > > > > > > > > > > > > that? How a person looks at a filled bottle> is> > > > > depends> > > > > > > > upon> > > > > > > > > his> > > > > > > > > > own> > > > > > > > > > > > > judgment and capacity, why one should try to> > > impose> > > > > his> > > > > > > > > thoughts> > > > > > > > > > > over> > > > > > > > > > > > > anyone? We cannot even force our thoughts on> our> > > > own> > > > > > kids,> > > > > > > > so> > > > > > > > > how> > > > > > > > > > we> > > > > > > > > > > can> > > > > > > > > > > > > expect others to follow our dictates?> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not know about the others but, for me> > > knowing> > > > > > about> > > > > > > > how> > > > > > > > > > Pundit> > > > > > > > > > > jee> > > > > > > > > > > > > use to talk, walk, sit, wear, behave, looks> and> > > > even> > > > > > abuse> > > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > > no> > > > > > > > > > > less> > > > > > > > > > > > > significance, if someone has any objection -> I> > > do> > > > not> > > > > > > > care.> > > > > > > > > And> > > > > > > > > > what> > > > > > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrong in it if someone produce some point> (like> > > in> > > > > the> > > > > > > > case of> > > > > > > > > > Bejod> > > > > > > > > > > > > Chhalla) in reference to the words of> veterans? A> > > > > few> > > > > > days> > > > > > > > > back a> > > > > > > > > > > remedy of> > > > > > > > > > > > > keeping Sponge was discussed in the forum,> it is> > > > > > nowhere> > > > > > > > > written> > > > > > > > > > in> > > > > > > > > > > the book> > > > > > > > > > > > > as for how many days this sponge is supposed> to> > > be> > > > > > kept in> > > > > > > > > case of> > > > > > > > > > > Varshphal> > > > > > > > > > > > > and what to do with this afterwards. I prefer> > > not> > > > to> > > > > > speak> > > > > > > > > about> > > > > > > > > > > that as I> > > > > > > > > > > > > knew that a demand of "Forensic analysis"> will> > > > arise> > > > > > if I> > > > > > > > > forward> > > > > > > > > > my> > > > > > > > > > > views> > > > > > > > > > > > > since the same was conveyed by a non-> > > > > > > > professional "VayoVridh"> > > > > > > > > Lal> > > > > > > > > > > kitab> > > > > > > > > > > > > premi.> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as running from the participation is> > > > > concerned,> > > > > > I> > > > > > > > would> > > > > > > > > > like> > > > > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > > > assure you that Peeth Dikha Kar Bhag jaana> meri> > > > > fitrat> > > > > > > > nahi> > > > > > > > > hai.> > > > > > > > > > > Browse the> > > > > > > > > > > > > achieve, and see how many mails with Colorful> > > > > Headings> > > > > > were> > > > > > > > > > directed> > > > > > > > > > > to me.> > > > > > > > > > > > > But I always took it as a compliment. Even> the> > > > > gauche> > > > > > way> > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > degrade> > > > > > > > > > > never> > > > > > > > > > > > > bothered me. I continued to participate in> the> > > > > debates> > > > > > > > with my> > > > > > > > > > > little or no> > > > > > > > > > > > > knowledge. But I hate to poke my nose in> > > > > controversial> > > > > > > > issues> > > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > > the issues> > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure> > > > > > > > > > > > > about. If that is called a weakness - I> accept it> > > > > > > > gleefully.> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > I also read starements about "showing the> mirror"> > > > > > > > > and "Nishkasit> > > > > > > > > > kar> > > > > > > > > > > diya> > > > > > > > > > > > > tha" etc. I always treat you as the shadow of> > > Prof.> > > > > > > > Upadhyaye> > > > > > > > > jee> > > > > > > > > > > who taught> > > > > > > > > > > > > me the great lesson of "Forgive and Forget",> so I> > > > > was a> > > > > > > > little> > > > > > > > > > > surprised> > > > > > > > > > > > > (but not at all shocked) with this> retaliatory> > > > > > attitude.> > > > > > > > Now> > > > > > > > > you> > > > > > > > > > > will agree> > > > > > > > > > > > > with me that all chickens look gray in the> dark.> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Kulbir jee, whos Lal Kitab business will> suffer?> > > > Who> > > > > is> > > > > > > > > afraid of> > > > > > > > > > > > > Shudhi-Karan? Whos Chele Chapte will ran> away? To> > > > > whom> > > > > > you> > > > > > > > are> > > > > > > > > > > refering? I> > > > > > > > > > > > > am like a "Nanga Putt Choran Vich> Khedey", "Na> > > aqal> > > > > naa> > > > > > > > > maut" - so> > > > > > > > > > > have> > > > > > > > > > > > > nothing to loose. Neither astrology is my> bread & > > > > > > butter> > > > > > > > nor I> > > > > > > > > > have> > > > > > > > > > > any> > > > > > > > > > > > > Chela-Chapta. But yes, like you, I too have> great> > > > > > faith in> > > > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > > > > divine> > > > > > > > > > > > > scripture and no one can ever deprived me of> > > that.> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Respectfully> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yograj Prabhakar> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > *kulbir bance kulbirbance@* wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Gurudev; remember the last line of this book> is> > > > MADAD> > > > > > > > MALIK> > > > > > > > > APNI> > > > > > > > > > > DEGA,> > > > > > > > > > > > > NEKI KHUD KARTE RAHO.> > > > > > > > > > > > > baki KUCH TO MAJBURIYAN RAHIN HONGI; YOUNH> HI KOI> > > > > > BEWAFA> > > > > > > > NAHIN> > > > > > > > > > HOTA,> > > > > > > > > > > > > pehli majboori; logon ko yeh shaq paida na ho> > > jai> > > > ki> > > > > > mujhe> > > > > > > > > > lalkitab> > > > > > > > > > > ki> > > > > > > > > > > > > samajh nahin.> > > > > > > > > > > > > second; why to comment i.e. accept, deny or> > > improve> > > > > > upon a> > > > > > > > > point> > > > > > > > > > > which we> > > > > > > > > > > > > ourselves couldn't point out. bhai hamse> badhkar> > > > > kaun;> > > > > > > > > > > > > please try to understand their difficulty> they> > > have> > > > > > > > > apprehensions> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. their lalkitab commerce will suffer.> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. it is difficult to acept that one has been> > > > > > associated> > > > > > > > with> > > > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > > > > book> > > > > > > > > > > > > for years; but all gone waste; all of sudden> > > comes> > > > a> > > > > > bolt> > > > > > > > > that his> > > > > > > > > > > approach> > > > > > > > > > > > > was wrong; how to undo that. its hard to> accept> > > > > unless> > > > > > > > > antarman ka> > > > > > > > > > > > > shudikaran ho gaya jai.> > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. thier goodwill and chele chapte/ following> > > will> > > > > run> > > > > > > > away.> > > > > > > > > > > > > so it is convenient to turn a blind eye.> > > > > > > > > > > > > jab pt ji ne shuru me hi likh diya DUNIYAVI> HISAB> > > > > KITAB> > > > > > > > HAI ,> > > > > > > > > KOI> > > > > > > > > > > > > DAWA-E-KHUDAI NAHIN. then what's wrong in> > > reviewing> > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > discussing.> > > > > > > > > > > rome was> > > > > > > > > > > > > not built in a day, we all can become> masters but> > > > > > patience> > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > > integrity is> > > > > > > > > > > > > a vital ingredient.> > > > > > > > > > > > > sincerely> > > > > > > > > > > > > kulbirbance> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/29/08, varun_trvd varun_trvd@ wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected members,> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is the tragedy; raise a fundamental> > > > > astrological> > > > > > > > issue> > > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > > all> > > > > > > > > > > > > > those who claim to have studied the Lal> Kitab> > > for> > > > > > > > decades go> > > > > > > > > > > silent.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I had raised a peripheral question there> > > would> > > > > > have> > > > > > > > been> > > > > > > > > at> > > > > > > > > > > least> > > > > > > > > > > > > > half a dozen people participating in an> > > agitated> > > > > > debate.> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Go to the archives and you will find long> > > debates> > > > > on> > > > > > > > issues> > > > > > > > > like> > > > > > > > > > > > > > whether the steel ring should be open at> the> > > ends> > > > > or> > > > > > > > > closed, or> > > > > > > > > > > > > > whether keeping a square piece of silver> for> > > > > Saturn> > > > > > is> > > > > > > > just> > > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > find> > > > > > > > > > > > > > out the nature of the Saturn or it is also> a> > > part> > > > > of> > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > upaya> > > > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > > > > > so on.> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or talk about any myth or a legend about> the> > > > book,> > > > > > and> > > > > > > > you> > > > > > > > > find> > > > > > > > > > > > > > every body ready with a myth of their own.> > > Every> > > > > body> > > > > > > > > claiming> > > > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > be> > > > > > > > > > > > > > very close to Pandit ji; they would go at> great> > > > > > lengths> > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > describe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > what he wore, how he walked, how the> spirits> > > > > dictated> > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > book> > > > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > > > > him and so on. But when it comes to> breaking> > > some> > > > > > > > > astrological> > > > > > > > > > > > > > misconceptions surrounding this book, none> of> > > > them> > > > > > is to> > > > > > > > be> > > > > > > > > > seen.> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On this current issue under discussion> except> > > for> > > > > > Kulbir> > > > > > > > ji> > > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raheja ji, no body has come out with any> > > comments> > > > > > either> > > > > > > > > way.> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is this apathy to discuss the Lal Kitab> and> > > > its> > > > > > > > contents> > > > > > > > > > purely> > > > > > > > > > > > > > with an astrological perspective, which has> > > lead> > > > > > other> > > > > > > > > > astrologers> > > > > > > > > > > > > > to be vary of it. No wonder that they> consider> > > > > this> > > > > > book> > > > > > > > as> > > > > > > > > a> > > > > > > > > > book> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of Tona-Totkas and the Lal Kitab> astrologers as> > > > > semi-> > > > > > > > > literate> > > > > > > > > > > small> > > > > > > > > > > > > > time village pundits. I do not blame> others for> > > > > this> > > > > > > > > > > misconception.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are at fault. It is our own apathy> > > responsible> > > > > > for it> > > > > > > > > because> > > > > > > > > > > we> > > > > > > > > > > > > > lack confidence to argue out issues on> their> > > > > > astrological> > > > > > > > > > merits.> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, doesn't matter; our effort is to get> the> > > > > > rightful> > > > > > > > > place> > > > > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > > > > > > > book deserves in the world of Indian> Astrology.> > > > > > > > > Participation or> > > > > > > > > > > no> > > > > > > > > > > > > > participation we will continue with our> effort.> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------> > > > > > > > > > > > > Never miss a thing. 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Guest guest Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Varun ji plaese read the very first line of ur message; ya makan se bahar ko niklein; makan apperas here or not; had it been janam kubdali it would have been written GHARON SE nikal kar bahar ko jaye; this word makan is the bone of contention. second option is that i and 9 have been interchanged in printing. sincerely kulbirbance , "varun_trvd" <varun_trvd wrote:>> > Dear Kulbir bhai,> > > > The passage under discussion as it appears on page 347 of the 1942 book> :> > > > Kundali ke khana # 1 se chal kar agar 9 ve ko javen ya makan se bahar ko> nikalen to jis tarf daayan hath hoga is taraf makan ke tamam grah jo> khana 1 se 8 tak honge apana saboot denge> > Isi tarah barah number khane se apane aap ko khana 9 ki taraf aate huye> gine ya makan mein bahar se aakar dakhil hone lagen to khana # 12 se 12,> 11, 10 ke gharon ke grah daayeen taraf makan ke saboot denge.> > > > This is how I have understood the passage, I could be wrong. I am> explaining the passage in segments so that it is convenient to> understand.> > > > [ A ] Kundali ke khana # 1 se chal kar agar 9 ve ko javen -> > > > Here the opening word of the sentence is kundali and not the makan> kundali. Therefore the author is talking about the Janma kundali and not> about the makan kundali.> > Thus the sentence means that if one enters the Janma kundali from the> house # 1 and moves towards the house # 9.> > > > [ B ] ya makan se bahar ko nikalen> > > > This segment could cause a bit of confusion. Here the segment does not> mean that the person turns around to get out of the house because the> word ‘wapas bahar ko nikale’ has not been used. This> segment simply means : if he person goes across i.e. if a person goes> across or cuts across from khana # 1 to khana # 9. In other words this> segment simply means ‘imagine yourself entering from the house #> 1 and going out through # 9’ . Remember this is just ‘> imagine’. It should not be taken literally nor it should not be> taken to mean that there is a door at khana # 9. This means draw an> imaginery line from # 1 cutting across from # 9.> > > > [ C ] to jis tarf daayan hath hoga is taraf makan ke tamam grah jo khana> 1 se 8 tak honge apana saboot denge.> > > > There is no confusion in this segment. What it says is true.> > > > [ D ] Isi tarah barah number khane se apane aap ko khana 9 ki taraf aate> huye gine> > > > In the segment [ A ] above the author turns right after entering the> Janma Kundali khana # 1 towards khana # 2…3.. 4..etc. In this> segment he simply means that after entering the Janma Kundali from the> house #1 if you turn Left towards khana # 9 through 12…11…10> > > > > > [ E ] ya makan mein bahar se aakar dakhil hone lagen> > > > In other words enter the house from out side. Then:> > > > [ F ] to khana # 12 se 12, 11, 10 ke gharon ke grah daayeen taraf makan> ke saboot denge.> > > > I have a problem in this segment. It is here I suspect that there is a> mistake. The word daayeen taraf should read baayeen taraf. Otherwise> there is no confusion or problem with this segment.> > > > I have explained the way I have understood the passage. If you have> understood the passage any differently, you can share with us.> > > > Have a nice day> > > > Varun> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "kulbirbance"> kulbirbance@ wrote:> >> > Varun ji> >> >> >> > dayein bayein baad me likha hai uske baare baad me hi> > sochna; uske pehle khanna no 1 se 9 bahar ka rasta; 12 se 9 andar ka> > rasta. to yah to 12 aur 9 ik hi direction hue ke aur ya phir 1 aur> > 12 opposite hue aur 9 hua centre. agar ghar ka darwaza ik hi hai to> > 12, 9 same hi hue yani ki gate ki taraf.> > pehle iska to kuch to jawab do> > baad ki line baad mein.> > it doesn't suits you that you ignore the lines you don't understand> > and make dayein to bayein as it suits you.> > either bring a solution to the whole paragraph or please don't do> > unneccessary ched chad with one word.> >> >> >> > kulbirbance> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > , "varun_trvd"> > varun_trvd@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Kulbir Bhai,> > >> > >> > >> > > ISI TARAH AGAR 12 NO. KHAANE SE APNE AAPKO KHANA NO. 9 KI TARAF> > AATEY> > > HUVE GINE YA MAKAAN MAIN BAAHAR SE AAKAR DAAKHIL HONE LAGAIN TO> > KHANA> > > NO. 12 SE 12, 11 10 KE GHARON KE GRAH --DAAYEN (right) TARAF> > MAKAAN KE> > > --SABOOT DENGEY.........> > >> > > In this text which appears on page 206 of the 1952 urdu edition> > and also> > > on page 347 or the 1942 edition I suspect [ I said suspect because> > I do> > > not have a proof yet ] that there is a mistake.> > >> > > The words marked red ' daayen' should read 'baayen' [ left ]. If> > the> > > correct word is 'baayen' then the entire question is over.> > >> > > Even if I do not get any proof, till then logically my mind will> > not> > > accept the text with the word 'daayen' and I will mark the passage> > as> > > 'unresolved'.> > >> > > Therefore I have stopped thinking about it till such time that> > some one> > > explains the logic of the word daayen to me or I find some proof> > that> > > there is a mistake in the original book.> > >> > > Regards,> > >> > > Varun> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > , "kulbirbance"> > > <kulbirbance@> wrote:> > > >> > > > gurudev> > > >> > > > zara dekho aap kya likh rahe ho khanna no 1se 9 ko jate aap> > > > ghar ke bhittar reach kar rahe ho kitab kahti hai 1 se 9 jate> > waqt> > > > bahar jana mana hai. tell me if i am wrong.> > > > aap bhitar to 1 se 9 ke raaste se hi aaye na to baat nahin bani> > > > kyonki likha hai 1 se chalkar 9 vein ko jayein ya makan ke bahar> > ko> > > > niklein. aur 12 se 9 ko ghar ke bhittar aana mana hai. ab batao> > 12> > > > aur 9 ik direction me hue ya nahin par pehla swaal yeh ki 1 se 9> > ko> > > > chalte aap bahar kaise ja rahe ho. isi liye maine khanna no9 ki> > > > position ke bare poocha tha. uparlikhat se to khanna no 9 sahan> > > > bilkul nahin lagta kyonki aap sahan se bahar darwaze par ja rahe> > ho.> > > > itni choti baat ke liye aapko pareshan nahin karta.> > > >> > > > kulbirbance.> > > >> > > >> > > > , "varun_trvd"> > > > varun_trvd@ wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Kulbir Bhai,> > > > >> > > > > After reaching the aangan [ house # 9 ] I will have to turn> > around> > > > > and walk back to the gate I entered from.> > > > >> > > > > Regards,> > > > >> > > > > Varun> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > , "kulbirbance"> > > > > <kulbirbance@> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > varun ji> > > > > >> > > > > > agar khanna no 9 makan ka sahan ya aangan hoga to khanna no> > > > > > 1 se 9 ko jakar aap makan se bahar kaise nikal sakte hain> > please> > > > > > give it a thought.> > > > > >> > > > > > kulbirbance> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > , "varun_trvd"> > > > > > <varun_trvd@> wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Kulbir bhai,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > khana # 9 kisi bhi makan ka sahan ya aangan hoga. Purane> > zamane> > > > > > mein> > > > > > > sabhi makano mein aagan ghar ke beech mein hota tha. aagan> > ke> > > > > > charon> > > > > > > tarf kothari ya kamare or varandah hota tha. Bath room to> > ghar> > > > > > mein> > > > > > > hi hota tha lekin latrine ghar ke bahar hoti thi.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Kuch zamidar gharon mein do [ two ] aangan hote the, ek> > mardana> > > > > > aur> > > > > > > ek zanana.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Aksar sabhi gharon ka ek sa hi naqsha hota tha, bahar ki> > tarf> > > > > > > baithak / chaupal, kua , ghori bandhne ki jagah, phir andar> > > > > sahan,> > > > > > > jiske charon taraf kamare.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > have a nice day,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Varun> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > , "kulbir bance"> > > > > > > <kulbirbance@> wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Varun ji agar, makkan kundali ki baat karein to khanna> > no 9> > > > > > > hamesha makkan> > > > > > > > ka centre hoga ya koi aur jagah bhi ho sakti hai.> > > > > > > > kulbirbance> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > On 4/1/08, varun_trvd <varun_trvd@> wrote:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Dear Kulbir Bhai,> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > If we are talking about the khana as marked in a Makan> > > > > > Kundali,> > > > > > > then> > > > > > > > > how can khana # 3 & 8 be on the right while entering ?> > > > These> > > > > > two> > > > > > > > > houses represent south. These two house can be on the> > right> > > > > > only> > > > > > > if> > > > > > > > > we enter the house from the west gate.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Yes in the Janma Kundali if we enter from the first> > house [> > > > > > > lagna ]> > > > > > > > > and go upto the 9th in a zodiac sequence then only> > houses> > > > > from> > > > > > 1> > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > 8 can be on the right.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Therefore let's be clear which directions are we> > talking> > > > > about?> > > > > > > > > Directions in a Makan Kundali or the directions in a> > Janma> > > > > > > Kundali ?> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Just a thought.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Have a nice day> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Varun> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > --- In> > > > > <%> > > > > > > 40>,> > > > > > > > > "kulbirbance"> > > > > > > > > <kulbirbance@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > umesh ji seems right, the directions change when the> > > > > > position> > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > > observer changes. when we enter the place the side> > which> > > > is> > > > > > on> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > right side chages to left when we move out.> > therefore it> > > > > can> > > > > > be> > > > > > > > > > safely concluded that when we enter the house items> > via> > > > > > planets> > > > > > > > > > posited representing house no 1 to 8 are on right> > side,> > > > 10-> > > > > > 12> > > > > > > on> > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > left side and house no.9 is the referance point. i.e.> > > > > > > directions> > > > > > > > > turn> > > > > > > > > > like a mirror image i think it is called lateral> > > > inversion;> > > > > > > when> > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > person going in turns his back towards the house.i.e> > > > > changes> > > > > > > his> > > > > > > > > > direction to the referance point i.e. house no9.> > > > > > > > > > kulbirbance.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > ---- In> > > > > > > <%> > > > > > > 40>,> > > > > > > > > "Umesh Sharma"> > > > > > > > > > <mudit982001@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Respected Lalkitabee Ji,> > > > > > > > > > > In my view this statement has Two different terms.> > > > > > > > > > > 1. KUNDALI KE KHANA NO. 1 SE CHALKAR AGAR NAUVAIN> > KO> > > > > > > > > > > JAYAIN YA MAKAAN SE BAAHAR KO NIKALAIN TO JIS> > TARAF -> > > > > DAYAAN> > > > > > > > > (right)> > > > > > > > > > > HAATH HOGAA- US TARAF MAKAAN KE TAMAAM GRAH JO> > KHANA> > > > NO.> > > > > 1> > > > > > SE> > > > > > > > > 8> > > > > > > > > > TAK HO> > > > > > > > > > > APNA SABOOT DENGEY.> > > > > > > > > > > 2. ISI TARAH AGAR 12 NO. KHAANE SE APNE AAPKO KHANA> > > > > > > > > > > > NO. 9 KI TARAF AATEY HUVE GINE YA MAKAAN MAIN> > BAAHAR> > > > SE> > > > > > > AAKAR> > > > > > > > > > DAAKHIL> > > > > > > > > > > > HONE LAGAIN TO KHANA NO. 12 SE 12, 11 10 KE> > GHARON KE> > > > > > > GRAH --> > > > > > > > > > DAAYEN> > > > > > > > > > > > (right) TARAF MAKAAN KE --SABOOT DENGEY.> > > > > > > > > > > 1. In first term the person go out side from house.> > > > > > > > > > > 2. In 2nd term the persaon come in side from out> > side.> > > > > > > > > > > Both are opposite directins.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Regards> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Umesh Sharma> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > --- In> > > > > > > <%> > > > > > > 40>,> > > > > > > > > "lalkitabee"> > > > > > > > > > > <lalkitabee@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Bhai Yograj ji> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > aapka lalkitab ke original 5 version bina kisi> > > > swarth> > > > > ke> > > > > > > logo> > > > > > > > > main> > > > > > > > > > > > baantnaa samaaj ke liye ek aisa yogdaan hai jise> > ki> > > > > aane> > > > > > > wale> > > > > > > > > > samay> > > > > > > > > > > > main kabhi bhi nahi bhulaayaa ja saktaa. Aapne> > ise is> > > > > > roop> > > > > > > > > main> > > > > > > > > > jis> > > > > > > > > > > > tarah se surakshit kiyaa hai, vah appki udaartaa> > ka> > > > > > > parichayak> > > > > > > > > > hai.It> > > > > > > > > > > > is a great work of great soul like u.> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Lekin Yograj ji, in 5 books ke baad aglaa daur> > jo ab> > > > > > shuru> > > > > > > hua> > > > > > > > > hai> > > > > > > > > > > > iski kalpana kuchh logon ke man main aaj se 3> > varsh> > > > > > pehley> > > > > > > hee> > > > > > > > > > thi aur> > > > > > > > > > > > uske liye kuchh prayaas kiye gaye, jinhain kuchh> > > > logon> > > > > > ne> > > > > > > Urdu> > > > > > > > > vs> > > > > > > > > > > > Hindi/Dalda ka khitaab dekar darkinaar kar diyaa> > aur> > > > > > khud> > > > > > > ko> > > > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > > tarah> > > > > > > > > > > se> > > > > > > > > > > > expose kiyaa ki shayad pujyaa pandit ji ki Rooh> > > > unhain> > > > > > > lalkitab> > > > > > > > > > > samjhaa> > > > > > > > > > > > kar jaa rahi hai aur unki baat ko hooob-hoo maan> > > > liyaa> > > > > > > jaye.> > > > > > > > > > Lalkitab> > > > > > > > > > > > ki lines main ooper neechey ,aage peechey> > ghumaakar> > > > ve> > > > > > log> > > > > > > > > kyaa> > > > > > > > > > sabit> > > > > > > > > > > > karnaa chahtey they samajh nahi aayaa, aaj aap> > khud> > > > ko> > > > > > hee> > > > > > > > > dekho> > > > > > > > > > aap> > > > > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > > urdu bahut badhia jaantey hain fir bhi galati to> > ho> > > > hi> > > > > > > jaati> > > > > > > > > hai,> > > > > > > > > > arre> > > > > > > > > > > > bhai insaan galatiyon ka putlaa hai,Jaise aap> > galati> > > > > kar> > > > > > > > > saktey> > > > > > > > > > hain> > > > > > > > > > > aur> > > > > > > > > > > > bhi kar saktey hain, aaj groups main hum sabhi> > isliye> > > > > > > ikatthey> > > > > > > > > > hotey> > > > > > > > > > > > hain taaki hum log galatiyon aur bhrantoyon se> > alag> > > > > > hatkar> > > > > > > > > gyaan> > > > > > > > > > ek> > > > > > > > > > > > doosrey ke jariye prapt kar sakain.> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Chalo chhodo in baaton ko aur jaraa Original> > Lalkitab> > > > > > 1952> > > > > > > ke> > > > > > > > > > > > page no. 206 par "GRAH KUNDALI KI MAKAAN KE> > HISAB SE> > > > > > > DURUSTI> > > > > > > > > par> > > > > > > > > > nazar> > > > > > > > > > > > daalo,likhaa hai ki ---KUNDALI KE KHANA NO. 1 SE> > > > > CHALKAR> > > > > > > AGAR> > > > > > > > > > NAUVAIN> > > > > > > > > > > KO> > > > > > > > > > > > JAYAIN YA MAKAAN SE BAAHAR KO NIKALAIN TO JIS> > TARAF -> > > > > > DAYAAN> > > > > > > > > > (right)> > > > > > > > > > > > HAATH HOGAA- US TARAF MAKAAN KE TAMAAM GRAH JO> > KHANA> > > > > NO.> > > > > > 1> > > > > > > SE> > > > > > > > > 8> > > > > > > > > > TAK HO> > > > > > > > > > > > APNA SABOOT DENGEY, ISI TARAH AGAR 12 NO. KHAANE> > SE> > > > > APNE> > > > > > > AAPKO> > > > > > > > > > KHANA> > > > > > > > > > > > NO. 9 KI TARAF AATEY HUVE GINE YA MAKAAN MAIN> > BAAHAR> > > > SE> > > > > > > AAKAR> > > > > > > > > > DAAKHIL> > > > > > > > > > > > HONE LAGAIN TO KHANA NO. 12 SE 12, 11 10 KE> > GHARON KE> > > > > > > GRAH --> > > > > > > > > > DAAYEN> > > > > > > > > > > > (right) TARAF MAKAAN KE --SABOOT DENGEY.> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Kyaa aisa nahi lag rahaa hai ki yahaan par bhi> > kuchh> > > > > > > > > contradiction> > > > > > > > > > > > hai. Dono hee tarah makan ke daayeen taraf> > saboot.> > > > > Mujhe> > > > > > > > > lagtaa> > > > > > > > > > hai ki> > > > > > > > > > > > yahaan par bhi lalkitab main shayd misprint hai> > ya> > > > > > galati> > > > > > > ki> > > > > > > > > > gunjaish> > > > > > > > > > > > hai. Aapkaa kyaa vichaar hai? Kyon na hum aur> > baaton> > > > > par> > > > > > > jor> > > > > > > > > dene> > > > > > > > > > ki> > > > > > > > > > > > bajaay is muddey par discussion ko continue> > karain.> > > > > Agar> > > > > > > meraa> > > > > > > > > > shak> > > > > > > > > > > > jayaj hai to is par gaur kiyaa jaaaye, agar> > najayaz> > > > hai> > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > uskaa> > > > > > > > > > > > khulaasa karne ki taqleef karain. Rahee baat> > shikve> > > > > > > shikayat> > > > > > > > > ki--> > > > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > > yograaj ji vo to chaltey hee rahengey, Koyee> > gyaan> > > > lene> > > > > > ke> > > > > > > > > liye> > > > > > > > > > group> > > > > > > > > > > > main aayaa ,koyee dene ke liye, koyee paise> > batorne> > > > to> > > > > > > koyee> > > > > > > > > chele> > > > > > > > > > > > ikatthey karney main bhi interested ho saktaaa> > hai.> > > > In> > > > > > sab> > > > > > > > > baaton> > > > > > > > > > ka> > > > > > > > > > > > koyee tharmameter to hai nahi . Who is queen & > > who is> > > > > > > maid ,> > > > > > > > > it> > > > > > > > > > shudnt> > > > > > > > > > > > be motive all of us.Kyon group main shikvey> > shikayat> > > > > par> > > > > > > jor> > > > > > > > > de> > > > > > > > > > rahey> > > > > > > > > > > > ho.Aur apni taraf se main ek baat saaf karnaa> > chahtaa> > > > > > hoon> > > > > > > ki> > > > > > > > > > maine> > > > > > > > > > > > Aaina dikhane ki baat un logo ke liye likhi thi> > > > > > > jo ,lalkitab> > > > > > > > > ke> > > > > > > > > > babat> > > > > > > > > > > > poochhey gaye sawaal ke jawab main bola kartey> > they> > > > ki> > > > > > > > > > > ---PROFESSIONALS> > > > > > > > > > > > LE UDENGEY -isliye bolnaa thik nahi. aaj is group> > > > main> > > > > > ek> > > > > > > ek> > > > > > > > > baat> > > > > > > > > > kee> > > > > > > > > > > > tafseel dene ki koshish ki ja rahee hai, aur to> > aur> > > > > > > lalkitab> > > > > > > > > ki> > > > > > > > > > mool> > > > > > > > > > > > pustak ki bhi galatiyaan pakdi jaa rahee hain aur> > > > > > > > > professionals> > > > > > > > > > bhi> > > > > > > > > > > > khulkar bol rahey hain jahaan tak unhain pataa> > hai.> > > > To> > > > > > ve> > > > > > > log> > > > > > > > > aaj> > > > > > > > > > kis> > > > > > > > > > > > gufaa main jaakar baith gaye hain. Sahee maayno> > main> > > > to> > > > > > > shayad> > > > > > > > > > aaj is> > > > > > > > > > > > group ke yogdaan se ve bhi seekh rahey hongey ki> > > > > > lalkitab> > > > > > > ko> > > > > > > > > kaise> > > > > > > > > > > > padhaa jaye. QAIYDEY KI TARAH YA EK RESEARCH> > ORIENTED> > > > > > > GRANTH> > > > > > > > > KI> > > > > > > > > > TARAH.> > > > > > > > > > > > agar meri baat theek nahi to un logon ko yahaan> > par> > > > > > shirkat> > > > > > > > > jaroor> > > > > > > > > > > karni> > > > > > > > > > > > chahiye.> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Mere red words ki baabat discussion ko roop dene> > ka> > > > > kash> > > > > > > > > karain.> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Pt.lalkitabee> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > V.Shukla> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharaj;> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > i didn't take anyone's name; how did u reach> > the> > > > > > > conclusion> > > > > > > > > > that it> > > > > > > > > > > > > is aimed at you. to be very frank i had bhatia> > ji> > > > in> > > > > > > mind.> > > > > > > > > > nowhere> > > > > > > > > > > did> > > > > > > > > > > > u cut> > > > > > > > > > > > > my viewpoint; it was all started by bhatia ji> > when> > > > i> > > > > > > asked> > > > > > > > > him> > > > > > > > > > about> > > > > > > > > > > > his> > > > > > > > > > > > > foot note and it's authenticity. i am sorry i> > have> > > > to> > > > > > go> > > > > > > > > > personal on> > > > > > > > > > > > record> > > > > > > > > > > > > but just check; he comes in various forums;> > tries> > > > to> > > > > > be a> > > > > > > > > > bhisham> > > > > > > > > > > > pitama but> > > > > > > > > > > > > gets lost whenever any logical thing is to be> > > > > > discussed.> > > > > > > you> > > > > > > > > > know i> > > > > > > > > > > > have> > > > > > > > > > > > > proof of many other things about participation> > but> > > > > > don't> > > > > > > > > want to> > > > > > > > > > > > derail the> > > > > > > > > > > > > process of ongoing discussions by starting a> > new> > > > > > > controversy;> > > > > > > > > > > > > would you please be kind enough to let me know> > as> > > > to> > > > > > > where> > > > > > > > > did> > > > > > > > > > my> > > > > > > > > > > mail> > > > > > > > > > > > point> > > > > > > > > > > > > towards you or in which manner did u interpret> > it.> > > > > > > > > > > > > baundale hoe bande nu jhunda te paya kapda wi> > bhoot> > > > > > pret> > > > > > > hi> > > > > > > > > > lagda so> > > > > > > > > > > > just> > > > > > > > > > > > > have a deep breath and reanalyse.> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > kulbirbains.> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/31/08, Yograj Prabhakar yr_prabhakar@> > wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Varun jee> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tragedy is not only what you have> > mentioned.> > > > > > > Another> > > > > > > > > great> > > > > > > > > > > > tragedy is> > > > > > > > > > > > > > that whoever found a "Sonth Kee Ganth" starts> > > > > > thinking> > > > > > > > > > himself a> > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Pansaaree", unfortunately we all are> > suffering> > > > > from> > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > > > fatal> > > > > > > > > > > > disease.> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are two kinds of people in Lal> > Kitab, "Dil> > > > > > > Waley" and> > > > > > > > > > > "Deemagh> > > > > > > > > > > > Wale"> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dil waley has more Josh than Hosh whereas> > Deemagh> > > > > > Waley> > > > > > > > > has> > > > > > > > > > more> > > > > > > > > > > > Hosh but> > > > > > > > > > > > > > less Josh. Both are actually complimentary to> > > > each> > > > > > > other. A> > > > > > > > > > > perfect> > > > > > > > > > > > blend of> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Josh and Hosh is a must to achieve anything.> > Dil> > > > > > Walon> > > > > > > ne> > > > > > > > > toh> > > > > > > > > > > Pundit> > > > > > > > > > > > jee ke> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5 Anmol Rattan bataur Prashad dunia bhar ko> > baant> > > > > > kar> > > > > > > apne> > > > > > > > > > sir se> > > > > > > > > > > > Kitab ka> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rinn Utaar diya hai. Ab iski Roshni ko duniya> > > > bhar> > > > > > mein> > > > > > > > > > phailaney> > > > > > > > > > > ki> > > > > > > > > > > > > > zimmewaree "Deemagh Walon" ki bhi hai. Agar> > aaj> > > > Ek> > > > > > Ek> > > > > > > lafz> > > > > > > > > > aur Ek> > > > > > > > > > > Ek> > > > > > > > > > > > logic> > > > > > > > > > > > > > par agar debate> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ho rahi hai to yaqeen karna, is baat kee> > khushi> > > > > mujh> > > > > > se> > > > > > > > > zyada> > > > > > > > > > > shayad> > > > > > > > > > > > hi> > > > > > > > > > > > > > kisi aur ko hogi. It is not necessary that we> > > > agree> > > > > > > with> > > > > > > > > each> > > > > > > > > > > other> > > > > > > > > > > > on every> > > > > > > > > > > > > > point. Every individual has his own way of> > > > seeing> > > > > the> > > > > > > > > things,> > > > > > > > > > we> > > > > > > > > > > > must not> > > > > > > > > > > > > > raise question mark on that. Fot some Lal> > Kitab> > > > is> > > > > > > > > > just "another> > > > > > > > > > > > book" of> > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrology, for many it is sacrosanct or> > divine> > > > > > > scripture,> > > > > > > > > > whats> > > > > > > > > > > > wrong with> > > > > > > > > > > > > > that? How a person looks at a filled bottle> > is> > > > > > depends> > > > > > > > > upon> > > > > > > > > > his> > > > > > > > > > > own> > > > > > > > > > > > > > judgment and capacity, why one should try to> > > > impose> > > > > > his> > > > > > > > > > thoughts> > > > > > > > > > > > over> > > > > > > > > > > > > > anyone? We cannot even force our thoughts on> > our> > > > > own> > > > > > > kids,> > > > > > > > > so> > > > > > > > > > how> > > > > > > > > > > we> > > > > > > > > > > > can> > > > > > > > > > > > > > expect others to follow our dictates?> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not know about the others but, for me> > > > knowing> > > > > > > about> > > > > > > > > how> > > > > > > > > > > Pundit> > > > > > > > > > > > jee> > > > > > > > > > > > > > use to talk, walk, sit, wear, behave, looks> > and> > > > > even> > > > > > > abuse> > > > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > > > no> > > > > > > > > > > > less> > > > > > > > > > > > > > significance, if someone has any objection -> > I> > > > do> > > > > not> > > > > > > > > care.> > > > > > > > > > And> > > > > > > > > > > what> > > > > > > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrong in it if someone produce some point> > (like> > > > in> > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > case of> > > > > > > > > > > Bejod> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chhalla) in reference to the words of> > veterans? A> > > > > > few> > > > > > > days> > > > > > > > > > back a> > > > > > > > > > > > remedy of> > > > > > > > > > > > > > keeping Sponge was discussed in the forum,> > it is> > > > > > > nowhere> > > > > > > > > > written> > > > > > > > > > > in> > > > > > > > > > > > the book> > > > > > > > > > > > > > as for how many days this sponge is supposed> > to> > > > be> > > > > > > kept in> > > > > > > > > > case of> > > > > > > > > > > > Varshphal> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and what to do with this afterwards. I prefer> > > > not> > > > > to> > > > > > > speak> > > > > > > > > > about> > > > > > > > > > > > that as I> > > > > > > > > > > > > > knew that a demand of "Forensic analysis"> > will> > > > > arise> > > > > > > if I> > > > > > > > > > forward> > > > > > > > > > > my> > > > > > > > > > > > views> > > > > > > > > > > > > > since the same was conveyed by a non-> > > > > > > > > professional "VayoVridh"> > > > > > > > > > Lal> > > > > > > > > > > > kitab> > > > > > > > > > > > > > premi.> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as running from the participation is> > > > > > concerned,> > > > > > > I> > > > > > > > > would> > > > > > > > > > > like> > > > > > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > > > > assure you that Peeth Dikha Kar Bhag jaana> > meri> > > > > > fitrat> > > > > > > > > nahi> > > > > > > > > > hai.> > > > > > > > > > > > Browse the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > achieve, and see how many mails with Colorful> > > > > > Headings> > > > > > > were> > > > > > > > > > > directed> > > > > > > > > > > > to me.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > But I always took it as a compliment. Even> > the> > > > > > gauche> > > > > > > way> > > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > degrade> > > > > > > > > > > > never> > > > > > > > > > > > > > bothered me. I continued to participate in> > the> > > > > > debates> > > > > > > > > with my> > > > > > > > > > > > little or no> > > > > > > > > > > > > > knowledge. But I hate to poke my nose in> > > > > > controversial> > > > > > > > > issues> > > > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > > > the issues> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure> > > > > > > > > > > > > > about. If that is called a weakness - I> > accept it> > > > > > > > > gleefully.> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also read starements about "showing the> > mirror"> > > > > > > > > > and "Nishkasit> > > > > > > > > > > kar> > > > > > > > > > > > diya> > > > > > > > > > > > > > tha" etc. I always treat you as the shadow of> > > > Prof.> > > > > > > > > Upadhyaye> > > > > > > > > > jee> > > > > > > > > > > > who taught> > > > > > > > > > > > > > me the great lesson of "Forgive and Forget",> > so I> > > > > > was a> > > > > > > > > little> > > > > > > > > > > > surprised> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (but not at all shocked) with this> > retaliatory> > > > > > > attitude.> > > > > > > > > Now> > > > > > > > > > you> > > > > > > > > > > > will agree> > > > > > > > > > > > > > with me that all chickens look gray in the> > dark.> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kulbir jee, whos Lal Kitab business will> > suffer?> > > > > Who> > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > > afraid of> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shudhi-Karan? Whos Chele Chapte will ran> > away? To> > > > > > whom> > > > > > > you> > > > > > > > > are> > > > > > > > > > > > refering? I> > > > > > > > > > > > > > am like a "Nanga Putt Choran Vich> > Khedey", "Na> > > > aqal> > > > > > naa> > > > > > > > > > maut" - so> > > > > > > > > > > > have> > > > > > > > > > > > > > nothing to loose. Neither astrology is my> > bread & > > > > > > > butter> > > > > > > > > nor I> > > > > > > > > > > have> > > > > > > > > > > > any> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chela-Chapta. But yes, like you, I too have> > great> > > > > > > faith in> > > > > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > > > > > divine> > > > > > > > > > > > > > scripture and no one can ever deprived me of> > > > that.> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respectfully> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yograj Prabhakar> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > *kulbir bance kulbirbance@* wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gurudev; remember the last line of this book> > is> > > > > MADAD> > > > > > > > > MALIK> > > > > > > > > > APNI> > > > > > > > > > > > DEGA,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > NEKI KHUD KARTE RAHO.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > baki KUCH TO MAJBURIYAN RAHIN HONGI; YOUNH> > HI KOI> > > > > > > BEWAFA> > > > > > > > > NAHIN> > > > > > > > > > > HOTA,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > pehli majboori; logon ko yeh shaq paida na ho> > > > jai> > > > > ki> > > > > > > mujhe> > > > > > > > > > > lalkitab> > > > > > > > > > > > ki> > > > > > > > > > > > > > samajh nahin.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > second; why to comment i.e. accept, deny or> > > > improve> > > > > > > upon a> > > > > > > > > > point> > > > > > > > > > > > which we> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ourselves couldn't point out. bhai hamse> > badhkar> > > > > > kaun;> > > > > > > > > > > > > > please try to understand their difficulty> > they> > > > have> > > > > > > > > > apprehensions> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. their lalkitab commerce will suffer.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. it is difficult to acept that one has been> > > > > > > associated> > > > > > > > > with> > > > > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > > > > > book> > > > > > > > > > > > > > for years; but all gone waste; all of sudden> > > > comes> > > > > a> > > > > > > bolt> > > > > > > > > > that his> > > > > > > > > > > > approach> > > > > > > > > > > > > > was wrong; how to undo that. its hard to> > accept> > > > > > unless> > > > > > > > > > antarman ka> > > > > > > > > > > > > > shudikaran ho gaya jai.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. thier goodwill and chele chapte/ following> > > > will> > > > > > run> > > > > > > > > away.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > so it is convenient to turn a blind eye.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > jab pt ji ne shuru me hi likh diya DUNIYAVI> > HISAB> > > > > > KITAB> > > > > > > > > HAI ,> > > > > > > > > > KOI> > > > > > > > > > > > > > DAWA-E-KHUDAI NAHIN. then what's wrong in> > > > reviewing> > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > > discussing.> > > > > > > > > > > > rome was> > > > > > > > > > > > > > not built in a day, we all can become> > masters but> > > > > > > patience> > > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > > > integrity is> > > > > > > > > > > > > > a vital ingredient.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > sincerely> > > > > > > > > > > > > > kulbirbance> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/29/08, varun_trvd varun_trvd@ wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected members,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is the tragedy; raise a fundamental> > > > > > astrological> > > > > > > > > issue> > > > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > > > all> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those who claim to have studied the Lal> > Kitab> > > > for> > > > > > > > > decades go> > > > > > > > > > > > silent.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I had raised a peripheral question there> > > > would> > > > > > > have> > > > > > > > > been> > > > > > > > > > at> > > > > > > > > > > > least> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > half a dozen people participating in an> > > > agitated> > > > > > > debate.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Go to the archives and you will find long> > > > debates> > > > > > on> > > > > > > > > issues> > > > > > > > > > like> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > whether the steel ring should be open at> > the> > > > ends> > > > > > or> > > > > > > > > > closed, or> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > whether keeping a square piece of silver> > for> > > > > > Saturn> > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > just> > > > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > > find> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > out the nature of the Saturn or it is also> > a> > > > part> > > > > > of> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > upaya> > > > > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so on.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or talk about any myth or a legend about> > the> > > > > book,> > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > you> > > > > > > > > > find> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > every body ready with a myth of their own.> > > > Every> > > > > > body> > > > > > > > > > claiming> > > > > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > > be> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > very close to Pandit ji; they would go at> > great> > > > > > > lengths> > > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > > describe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what he wore, how he walked, how the> > spirits> > > > > > dictated> > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > book> > > > > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > him and so on. But when it comes to> > breaking> > > > some> > > > > > > > > > astrological> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > misconceptions surrounding this book, none> > of> > > > > them> > > > > > > is to> > > > > > > > > be> > > > > > > > > > > seen.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On this current issue under discussion> > except> > > > for> > > > > > > Kulbir> > > > > > > > > ji> > > > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raheja ji, no body has come out with any> > > > comments> > > > > > > either> > > > > > > > > > way.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is this apathy to discuss the Lal Kitab> > and> > > > > its> > > > > > > > > contents> > > > > > > > > > > purely> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with an astrological perspective, which has> > > > lead> > > > > > > other> > > > > > > > > > > astrologers> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to be vary of it. No wonder that they> > consider> > > > > > this> > > > > > > book> > > > > > > > > as> > > > > > > > > > a> > > > > > > > > > > book> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of Tona-Totkas and the Lal Kitab> > astrologers as> > > > > > semi-> > > > > > > > > > literate> > > > > > > > > > > > small> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time village pundits. I do not blame> > others for> > > > > > this> > > > > > > > > > > > misconception.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are at fault. It is our own apathy> > > > responsible> > > > > > > for it> > > > > > > > > > because> > > > > > > > > > > > we> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lack confidence to argue out issues on> > their> > > > > > > astrological> > > > > > > > > > > merits.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, doesn't matter; our effort is to get> > the> > > > > > > rightful> > > > > > > > > > place> > > > > > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > book deserves in the world of Indian> > Astrology.> > > > > > > > > > Participation or> > > > > > > > > > > > no> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > participation we will continue with our> > effort.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Never miss a thing. Make your> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > homepage.<http://us.rd./evt=51438/*http://www./r/hs> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Dear Kulbir bhai, segment [ B ] ya makaan se bahar ko nikalen I take it as a case of image-switch, where an author switches from one image to another. In this case Pandit ji while talking about the Janma kundali switches over to an imaginery ' makaan' as if the janma kundali is a 'makaan' and we go across the 'makaan' from # 1 to # 9. This is how I have understood it. No, I do not think that there has been any interchange between #1 and #9. To me they are placed logically because I do not interpret this line to mean that we have turned back and coming out of the house [ wapas bahar ki oor laut rahe hai ] . For me the line in its figerative sense, and not in its literal sense, means that we are going across the 'makaan' [ ghar ke aar-paar bahar ] from # 1 through # 9. Have a nice day Varun , "kulbirbance" <kulbirbance wrote:>> > Varun ji plaese read the very first line of ur message; ya makan se> bahar ko niklein; makan apperas here or not; had it been janam kubdali> it would have been written GHARON SE nikal kar bahar ko jaye; this word> makan is the bone of contention.> > second option is that i and 9 have been interchanged in printing.> > sincerely> > kulbirbance> > > , "varun_trvd"> varun_trvd@ wrote:> >> >> > Dear Kulbir bhai,> >> >> >> > The passage under discussion as it appears on page 347 of the 1942> book> > :> >> >> >> > Kundali ke khana # 1 se chal kar agar 9 ve ko javen ya makan se bahar> ko> > nikalen to jis tarf daayan hath hoga is taraf makan ke tamam grah jo> > khana 1 se 8 tak honge apana saboot denge> >> > Isi tarah barah number khane se apane aap ko khana 9 ki taraf aate> huye> > gine ya makan mein bahar se aakar dakhil hone lagen to khana # 12 se> 12,> > 11, 10 ke gharon ke grah daayeen taraf makan ke saboot denge.> >> >> >> > This is how I have understood the passage, I could be wrong. I am> > explaining the passage in segments so that it is convenient to> > understand.> >> >> >> > [ A ] Kundali ke khana # 1 se chal kar agar 9 ve ko javen -> >> >> >> > Here the opening word of the sentence is kundali and not the makan> > kundali. Therefore the author is talking about the Janma kundali and> not> > about the makan kundali.> >> > Thus the sentence means that if one enters the Janma kundali from the> > house # 1 and moves towards the house # 9.> >> >> >> > [ B ] ya makan se bahar ko nikalen> >> >> >> > This segment could cause a bit of confusion. Here the segment does not> > mean that the person turns around to get out of the house because the> > word ‘wapas bahar ko nikale’ has not been used. This> > segment simply means : if he person goes across i.e. if a person goes> > across or cuts across from khana # 1 to khana # 9. In other words this> > segment simply means ‘imagine yourself entering from the house> #> > 1 and going out through # 9’ . Remember this is just ‘> > imagine’. It should not be taken literally nor it should not be> > taken to mean that there is a door at khana # 9. This means draw an> > imaginery line from # 1 cutting across from # 9.> >> >> >> > [ C ] to jis tarf daayan hath hoga is taraf makan ke tamam grah jo> khana> > 1 se 8 tak honge apana saboot denge.> >> >> >> > There is no confusion in this segment. What it says is true.> >> >> >> > [ D ] Isi tarah barah number khane se apane aap ko khana 9 ki taraf> aate> > huye gine> >> >> >> > In the segment [ A ] above the author turns right after entering the> > Janma Kundali khana # 1 towards khana # 2…3.. 4..etc. In this> > segment he simply means that after entering the Janma Kundali from the> > house #1 if you turn Left towards khana # 9 through> 12…11…10> >> >> >> >> >> > [ E ] ya makan mein bahar se aakar dakhil hone lagen> >> >> >> > In other words enter the house from out side. Then:> >> >> >> > [ F ] to khana # 12 se 12, 11, 10 ke gharon ke grah daayeen taraf> makan> > ke saboot denge.> >> >> >> > I have a problem in this segment. It is here I suspect that there is a> > mistake. The word daayeen taraf should read baayeen taraf. Otherwise> > there is no confusion or problem with this segment.> >> >> >> > I have explained the way I have understood the passage. If you have> > understood the passage any differently, you can share with us.> >> >> >> > Have a nice day> >> >> >> > Varun> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > , "kulbirbance"> > kulbirbance@ wrote:> > >> > > Varun ji> > >> > >> > >> > > dayein bayein baad me likha hai uske baare baad me hi> > > sochna; uske pehle khanna no 1 se 9 bahar ka rasta; 12 se 9 andar ka> > > rasta. to yah to 12 aur 9 ik hi direction hue ke aur ya phir 1 aur> > > 12 opposite hue aur 9 hua centre. agar ghar ka darwaza ik hi hai to> > > 12, 9 same hi hue yani ki gate ki taraf.> > > pehle iska to kuch to jawab do> > > baad ki line baad mein.> > > it doesn't suits you that you ignore the lines you don't understand> > > and make dayein to bayein as it suits you.> > > either bring a solution to the whole paragraph or please don't do> > > unneccessary ched chad with one word.> > >> > >> > >> > > kulbirbance> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > , "varun_trvd"> > > varun_trvd@ wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Kulbir Bhai,> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > ISI TARAH AGAR 12 NO. KHAANE SE APNE AAPKO KHANA NO. 9 KI TARAF> > > AATEY> > > > HUVE GINE YA MAKAAN MAIN BAAHAR SE AAKAR DAAKHIL HONE LAGAIN TO> > > KHANA> > > > NO. 12 SE 12, 11 10 KE GHARON KE GRAH --DAAYEN (right) TARAF> > > MAKAAN KE> > > > --SABOOT DENGEY.........> > > >> > > > In this text which appears on page 206 of the 1952 urdu edition> > > and also> > > > on page 347 or the 1942 edition I suspect [ I said suspect because> > > I do> > > > not have a proof yet ] that there is a mistake.> > > >> > > > The words marked red ' daayen' should read 'baayen' [ left ]. If> > > the> > > > correct word is 'baayen' then the entire question is over.> > > >> > > > Even if I do not get any proof, till then logically my mind will> > > not> > > > accept the text with the word 'daayen' and I will mark the passage> > > as> > > > 'unresolved'.> > > >> > > > Therefore I have stopped thinking about it till such time that> > > some one> > > > explains the logic of the word daayen to me or I find some proof> > > that> > > > there is a mistake in the original book.> > > >> > > > Regards,> > > >> > > > Varun> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > , "kulbirbance"> > > > <kulbirbance@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > gurudev> > > > >> > > > > zara dekho aap kya likh rahe ho khanna no 1se 9 ko jate aap> > > > > ghar ke bhittar reach kar rahe ho kitab kahti hai 1 se 9 jate> > > waqt> > > > > bahar jana mana hai. tell me if i am wrong.> > > > > aap bhitar to 1 se 9 ke raaste se hi aaye na to baat nahin bani> > > > > kyonki likha hai 1 se chalkar 9 vein ko jayein ya makan ke bahar> > > ko> > > > > niklein. aur 12 se 9 ko ghar ke bhittar aana mana hai. ab batao> > > 12> > > > > aur 9 ik direction me hue ya nahin par pehla swaal yeh ki 1 se 9> > > ko> > > > > chalte aap bahar kaise ja rahe ho. isi liye maine khanna no9 ki> > > > > position ke bare poocha tha. uparlikhat se to khanna no 9 sahan> > > > > bilkul nahin lagta kyonki aap sahan se bahar darwaze par ja rahe> > > ho.> > > > > itni choti baat ke liye aapko pareshan nahin karta.> > > > >> > > > > kulbirbance.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > , "varun_trvd"> > > > > varun_trvd@ wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Kulbir Bhai,> > > > > >> > > > > > After reaching the aangan [ house # 9 ] I will have to turn> > > around> > > > > > and walk back to the gate I entered from.> > > > > >> > > > > > Regards,> > > > > >> > > > > > Varun> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > , "kulbirbance"> > > > > > <kulbirbance@> wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > varun ji> > > > > > >> > > > > > > agar khanna no 9 makan ka sahan ya aangan hoga to khanna no> > > > > > > 1 se 9 ko jakar aap makan se bahar kaise nikal sakte hain> > > please> > > > > > > give it a thought.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > kulbirbance> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > , "varun_trvd"> > > > > > > <varun_trvd@> wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Kulbir bhai,> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > khana # 9 kisi bhi makan ka sahan ya aangan hoga. Purane> > > zamane> > > > > > > mein> > > > > > > > sabhi makano mein aagan ghar ke beech mein hota tha. aagan> > > ke> > > > > > > charon> > > > > > > > tarf kothari ya kamare or varandah hota tha. Bath room to> > > ghar> > > > > > > mein> > > > > > > > hi hota tha lekin latrine ghar ke bahar hoti thi.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Kuch zamidar gharon mein do [ two ] aangan hote the, ek> > > mardana> > > > > > > aur> > > > > > > > ek zanana.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Aksar sabhi gharon ka ek sa hi naqsha hota tha, bahar ki> > > tarf> > > > > > > > baithak / chaupal, kua , ghori bandhne ki jagah, phir> andar> > > > > > sahan,> > > > > > > > jiske charon taraf kamare.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > have a nice day,> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Varun> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > , "kulbir bance"> > > > > > > > <kulbirbance@> wrote:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Varun ji agar, makkan kundali ki baat karein to khanna> > > no 9> > > > > > > > hamesha makkan> > > > > > > > > ka centre hoga ya koi aur jagah bhi ho sakti hai.> > > > > > > > > kulbirbance> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > On 4/1/08, varun_trvd <varun_trvd@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Dear Kulbir Bhai,> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > If we are talking about the khana as marked in a Makan> > > > > > > Kundali,> > > > > > > > then> > > > > > > > > > how can khana # 3 & 8 be on the right while entering ?> > > > > These> > > > > > > two> > > > > > > > > > houses represent south. These two house can be on the> > > right> > > > > > > only> > > > > > > > if> > > > > > > > > > we enter the house from the west gate.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Yes in the Janma Kundali if we enter from the first> > > house [> > > > > > > > lagna ]> > > > > > > > > > and go upto the 9th in a zodiac sequence then only> > > houses> > > > > > from> > > > > > > 1> > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > 8 can be on the right.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Therefore let's be clear which directions are we> > > talking> > > > > > about?> > > > > > > > > > Directions in a Makan Kundali or the directions in a> > > Janma> > > > > > > > Kundali ?> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Just a thought.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Have a nice day> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Varun> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > --- In> > > > > > <%> > > > > > > > 40>,> > > > > > > > > > "kulbirbance"> > > > > > > > > > <kulbirbance@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > umesh ji seems right, the directions change when the> > > > > > > position> > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > > > observer changes. when we enter the place the side> > > which> > > > > is> > > > > > > on> > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > right side chages to left when we move out.> > > therefore it> > > > > > can> > > > > > > be> > > > > > > > > > > safely concluded that when we enter the house items> > > via> > > > > > > planets> > > > > > > > > > > posited representing house no 1 to 8 are on right> > > side,> > > > > 10-> > > > > > > 12> > > > > > > > on> > > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > left side and house no.9 is the referance point.> i.e.> > > > > > > > directions> > > > > > > > > > turn> > > > > > > > > > > like a mirror image i think it is called lateral> > > > > inversion;> > > > > > > > when> > > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > person going in turns his back towards the house.i.e> > > > > > changes> > > > > > > > his> > > > > > > > > > > direction to the referance point i.e. house no9.> > > > > > > > > > > kulbirbance.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > ---- In> > > > > > > > <%> > > > > > > > 40>,> > > > > > > > > > "Umesh Sharma"> > > > > > > > > > > <mudit982001@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Lalkitabee Ji,> > > > > > > > > > > > In my view this statement has Two different terms.> > > > > > > > > > > > 1. KUNDALI KE KHANA NO. 1 SE CHALKAR AGAR NAUVAIN> > > KO> > > > > > > > > > > > JAYAIN YA MAKAAN SE BAAHAR KO NIKALAIN TO JIS> > > TARAF -> > > > > > DAYAAN> > > > > > > > > > (right)> > > > > > > > > > > > HAATH HOGAA- US TARAF MAKAAN KE TAMAAM GRAH JO> > > KHANA> > > > > NO.> > > > > > 1> > > > > > > SE> > > > > > > > > > 8> > > > > > > > > > > TAK HO> > > > > > > > > > > > APNA SABOOT DENGEY.> > > > > > > > > > > > 2. ISI TARAH AGAR 12 NO. KHAANE SE APNE AAPKO> KHANA> > > > > > > > > > > > > NO. 9 KI TARAF AATEY HUVE GINE YA MAKAAN MAIN> > > BAAHAR> > > > > SE> > > > > > > > AAKAR> > > > > > > > > > > DAAKHIL> > > > > > > > > > > > > HONE LAGAIN TO KHANA NO. 12 SE 12, 11 10 KE> > > GHARON KE> > > > > > > > GRAH --> > > > > > > > > > > DAAYEN> > > > > > > > > > > > > (right) TARAF MAKAAN KE --SABOOT DENGEY.> > > > > > > > > > > > 1. In first term the person go out side from> house.> > > > > > > > > > > > 2. In 2nd term the persaon come in side from out> > > side.> > > > > > > > > > > > Both are opposite directins.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Regards> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Umesh Sharma> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In> > > > > > > > <%> > > > > > > > 40>,> > > > > > > > > > "lalkitabee"> > > > > > > > > > > > <lalkitabee@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhai Yograj ji> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > aapka lalkitab ke original 5 version bina kisi> > > > > swarth> > > > > > ke> > > > > > > > logo> > > > > > > > > > main> > > > > > > > > > > > > baantnaa samaaj ke liye ek aisa yogdaan hai jise> > > ki> > > > > > aane> > > > > > > > wale> > > > > > > > > > > samay> > > > > > > > > > > > > main kabhi bhi nahi bhulaayaa ja saktaa. Aapne> > > ise is> > > > > > > roop> > > > > > > > > > main> > > > > > > > > > > jis> > > > > > > > > > > > > tarah se surakshit kiyaa hai, vah appki udaartaa> > > ka> > > > > > > > parichayak> > > > > > > > > > > hai.It> > > > > > > > > > > > > is a great work of great soul like u.> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Lekin Yograj ji, in 5 books ke baad aglaa daur> > > jo ab> > > > > > > shuru> > > > > > > > hua> > > > > > > > > > hai> > > > > > > > > > > > > iski kalpana kuchh logon ke man main aaj se 3> > > varsh> > > > > > > pehley> > > > > > > > hee> > > > > > > > > > > thi aur> > > > > > > > > > > > > uske liye kuchh prayaas kiye gaye, jinhain kuchh> > > > > logon> > > > > > > ne> > > > > > > > Urdu> > > > > > > > > > vs> > > > > > > > > > > > > Hindi/Dalda ka khitaab dekar darkinaar kar diyaa> > > aur> > > > > > > khud> > > > > > > > ko> > > > > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > > > tarah> > > > > > > > > > > > se> > > > > > > > > > > > > expose kiyaa ki shayad pujyaa pandit ji ki Rooh> > > > > unhain> > > > > > > > lalkitab> > > > > > > > > > > > samjhaa> > > > > > > > > > > > > kar jaa rahi hai aur unki baat ko hooob-hoo maan> > > > > liyaa> > > > > > > > jaye.> > > > > > > > > > > Lalkitab> > > > > > > > > > > > > ki lines main ooper neechey ,aage peechey> > > ghumaakar> > > > > ve> > > > > > > log> > > > > > > > > > kyaa> > > > > > > > > > > sabit> > > > > > > > > > > > > karnaa chahtey they samajh nahi aayaa, aaj aap> > > khud> > > > > ko> > > > > > > hee> > > > > > > > > > dekho> > > > > > > > > > > aap> > > > > > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > > > urdu bahut badhia jaantey hain fir bhi galati to> > > ho> > > > > hi> > > > > > > > jaati> > > > > > > > > > hai,> > > > > > > > > > > arre> > > > > > > > > > > > > bhai insaan galatiyon ka putlaa hai,Jaise aap> > > galati> > > > > > kar> > > > > > > > > > saktey> > > > > > > > > > > hain> > > > > > > > > > > > aur> > > > > > > > > > > > > bhi kar saktey hain, aaj groups main hum sabhi> > > isliye> > > > > > > > ikatthey> > > > > > > > > > > hotey> > > > > > > > > > > > > hain taaki hum log galatiyon aur bhrantoyon se> > > alag> > > > > > > hatkar> > > > > > > > > > gyaan> > > > > > > > > > > ek> > > > > > > > > > > > > doosrey ke jariye prapt kar sakain.> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Chalo chhodo in baaton ko aur jaraa Original> > > Lalkitab> > > > > > > 1952> > > > > > > > ke> > > > > > > > > > > > > page no. 206 par "GRAH KUNDALI KI MAKAAN KE> > > HISAB SE> > > > > > > > DURUSTI> > > > > > > > > > par> > > > > > > > > > > nazar> > > > > > > > > > > > > daalo,likhaa hai ki ---KUNDALI KE KHANA NO. 1 SE> > > > > > CHALKAR> > > > > > > > AGAR> > > > > > > > > > > NAUVAIN> > > > > > > > > > > > KO> > > > > > > > > > > > > JAYAIN YA MAKAAN SE BAAHAR KO NIKALAIN TO JIS> > > TARAF -> > > > > > > DAYAAN> > > > > > > > > > > (right)> > > > > > > > > > > > > HAATH HOGAA- US TARAF MAKAAN KE TAMAAM GRAH JO> > > KHANA> > > > > > NO.> > > > > > > 1> > > > > > > > SE> > > > > > > > > > 8> > > > > > > > > > > TAK HO> > > > > > > > > > > > > APNA SABOOT DENGEY, ISI TARAH AGAR 12 NO. KHAANE> > > SE> > > > > > APNE> > > > > > > > AAPKO> > > > > > > > > > > KHANA> > > > > > > > > > > > > NO. 9 KI TARAF AATEY HUVE GINE YA MAKAAN MAIN> > > BAAHAR> > > > > SE> > > > > > > > AAKAR> > > > > > > > > > > DAAKHIL> > > > > > > > > > > > > HONE LAGAIN TO KHANA NO. 12 SE 12, 11 10 KE> > > GHARON KE> > > > > > > > GRAH --> > > > > > > > > > > DAAYEN> > > > > > > > > > > > > (right) TARAF MAKAAN KE --SABOOT DENGEY.> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Kyaa aisa nahi lag rahaa hai ki yahaan par bhi> > > kuchh> > > > > > > > > > contradiction> > > > > > > > > > > > > hai. Dono hee tarah makan ke daayeen taraf> > > saboot.> > > > > > Mujhe> > > > > > > > > > lagtaa> > > > > > > > > > > hai ki> > > > > > > > > > > > > yahaan par bhi lalkitab main shayd misprint hai> > > ya> > > > > > > galati> > > > > > > > ki> > > > > > > > > > > gunjaish> > > > > > > > > > > > > hai. Aapkaa kyaa vichaar hai? Kyon na hum aur> > > baaton> > > > > > par> > > > > > > > jor> > > > > > > > > > dene> > > > > > > > > > > ki> > > > > > > > > > > > > bajaay is muddey par discussion ko continue> > > karain.> > > > > > Agar> > > > > > > > meraa> > > > > > > > > > > shak> > > > > > > > > > > > > jayaj hai to is par gaur kiyaa jaaaye, agar> > > najayaz> > > > > hai> > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > uskaa> > > > > > > > > > > > > khulaasa karne ki taqleef karain. Rahee baat> > > shikve> > > > > > > > shikayat> > > > > > > > > > ki--> > > > > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > > > yograaj ji vo to chaltey hee rahengey, Koyee> > > gyaan> > > > > lene> > > > > > > ke> > > > > > > > > > liye> > > > > > > > > > > group> > > > > > > > > > > > > main aayaa ,koyee dene ke liye, koyee paise> > > batorne> > > > > to> > > > > > > > koyee> > > > > > > > > > chele> > > > > > > > > > > > > ikatthey karney main bhi interested ho saktaaa> > > hai.> > > > > In> > > > > > > sab> > > > > > > > > > baaton> > > > > > > > > > > ka> > > > > > > > > > > > > koyee tharmameter to hai nahi . Who is queen & > > > who is> > > > > > > > maid ,> > > > > > > > > > it> > > > > > > > > > > shudnt> > > > > > > > > > > > > be motive all of us.Kyon group main shikvey> > > shikayat> > > > > > par> > > > > > > > jor> > > > > > > > > > de> > > > > > > > > > > rahey> > > > > > > > > > > > > ho.Aur apni taraf se main ek baat saaf karnaa> > > chahtaa> > > > > > > hoon> > > > > > > > ki> > > > > > > > > > > maine> > > > > > > > > > > > > Aaina dikhane ki baat un logo ke liye likhi thi> > > > > > > > jo ,lalkitab> > > > > > > > > > ke> > > > > > > > > > > babat> > > > > > > > > > > > > poochhey gaye sawaal ke jawab main bola kartey> > > they> > > > > ki> > > > > > > > > > > > ---PROFESSIONALS> > > > > > > > > > > > > LE UDENGEY -isliye bolnaa thik nahi. aaj is> group> > > > > main> > > > > > > ek> > > > > > > > ek> > > > > > > > > > baat> > > > > > > > > > > kee> > > > > > > > > > > > > tafseel dene ki koshish ki ja rahee hai, aur to> > > aur> > > > > > > > lalkitab> > > > > > > > > > ki> > > > > > > > > > > mool> > > > > > > > > > > > > pustak ki bhi galatiyaan pakdi jaa rahee hain> aur> > > > > > > > > > professionals> > > > > > > > > > > bhi> > > > > > > > > > > > > khulkar bol rahey hain jahaan tak unhain pataa> > > hai.> > > > > To> > > > > > > ve> > > > > > > > log> > > > > > > > > > aaj> > > > > > > > > > > kis> > > > > > > > > > > > > gufaa main jaakar baith gaye hain. Sahee maayno> > > main> > > > > to> > > > > > > > shayad> > > > > > > > > > > aaj is> > > > > > > > > > > > > group ke yogdaan se ve bhi seekh rahey hongey ki> > > > > > > lalkitab> > > > > > > > ko> > > > > > > > > > kaise> > > > > > > > > > > > > padhaa jaye. QAIYDEY KI TARAH YA EK RESEARCH> > > ORIENTED> > > > > > > > GRANTH> > > > > > > > > > KI> > > > > > > > > > > TARAH.> > > > > > > > > > > > > agar meri baat theek nahi to un logon ko yahaan> > > par> > > > > > > shirkat> > > > > > > > > > jaroor> > > > > > > > > > > > karni> > > > > > > > > > > > > chahiye.> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Mere red words ki baabat discussion ko roop dene> > > ka> > > > > > kash> > > > > > > > > > karain.> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Pt.lalkitabee> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > V.Shukla> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharaj;> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > i didn't take anyone's name; how did u reach> > > the> > > > > > > > conclusion> > > > > > > > > > > that it> > > > > > > > > > > > > > is aimed at you. to be very frank i had bhatia> > > ji> > > > > in> > > > > > > > mind.> > > > > > > > > > > nowhere> > > > > > > > > > > > did> > > > > > > > > > > > > u cut> > > > > > > > > > > > > > my viewpoint; it was all started by bhatia ji> > > when> > > > > i> > > > > > > > asked> > > > > > > > > > him> > > > > > > > > > > about> > > > > > > > > > > > > his> > > > > > > > > > > > > > foot note and it's authenticity. i am sorry i> > > have> > > > > to> > > > > > > go> > > > > > > > > > > personal on> > > > > > > > > > > > > record> > > > > > > > > > > > > > but just check; he comes in various forums;> > > tries> > > > > to> > > > > > > be a> > > > > > > > > > > bhisham> > > > > > > > > > > > > pitama but> > > > > > > > > > > > > > gets lost whenever any logical thing is to be> > > > > > > discussed.> > > > > > > > you> > > > > > > > > > > know i> > > > > > > > > > > > > have> > > > > > > > > > > > > > proof of many other things about participation> > > but> > > > > > > don't> > > > > > > > > > want to> > > > > > > > > > > > > derail the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > process of ongoing discussions by starting a> > > new> > > > > > > > controversy;> > > > > > > > > > > > > > would you please be kind enough to let me know> > > as> > > > > to> > > > > > > > where> > > > > > > > > > did> > > > > > > > > > > my> > > > > > > > > > > > mail> > > > > > > > > > > > > point> > > > > > > > > > > > > > towards you or in which manner did u interpret> > > it.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > baundale hoe bande nu jhunda te paya kapda wi> > > bhoot> > > > > > > pret> > > > > > > > hi> > > > > > > > > > > lagda so> > > > > > > > > > > > > just> > > > > > > > > > > > > > have a deep breath and reanalyse.> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > kulbirbains.> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/31/08, Yograj Prabhakar yr_prabhakar@> > > wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Varun jee> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tragedy is not only what you have> > > mentioned.> > > > > > > > Another> > > > > > > > > > great> > > > > > > > > > > > > tragedy is> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that whoever found a "Sonth Kee Ganth"> starts> > > > > > > thinking> > > > > > > > > > > himself a> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Pansaaree", unfortunately we all are> > > suffering> > > > > > from> > > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > > > > fatal> > > > > > > > > > > > > disease.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are two kinds of people in Lal> > > Kitab, "Dil> > > > > > > > Waley" and> > > > > > > > > > > > "Deemagh> > > > > > > > > > > > > Wale"> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dil waley has more Josh than Hosh whereas> > > Deemagh> > > > > > > Waley> > > > > > > > > > has> > > > > > > > > > > more> > > > > > > > > > > > > Hosh but> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > less Josh. Both are actually complimentary> to> > > > > each> > > > > > > > other. A> > > > > > > > > > > > perfect> > > > > > > > > > > > > blend of> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Josh and Hosh is a must to achieve anything.> > > Dil> > > > > > > Walon> > > > > > > > ne> > > > > > > > > > toh> > > > > > > > > > > > Pundit> > > > > > > > > > > > > jee ke> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5 Anmol Rattan bataur Prashad dunia bhar ko> > > baant> > > > > > > kar> > > > > > > > apne> > > > > > > > > > > sir se> > > > > > > > > > > > > Kitab ka> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rinn Utaar diya hai. Ab iski Roshni ko> duniya> > > > > bhar> > > > > > > mein> > > > > > > > > > > phailaney> > > > > > > > > > > > ki> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > zimmewaree "Deemagh Walon" ki bhi hai. Agar> > > aaj> > > > > Ek> > > > > > > Ek> > > > > > > > lafz> > > > > > > > > > > aur Ek> > > > > > > > > > > > Ek> > > > > > > > > > > > > logic> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > par agar debate> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ho rahi hai to yaqeen karna, is baat kee> > > khushi> > > > > > mujh> > > > > > > se> > > > > > > > > > zyada> > > > > > > > > > > > shayad> > > > > > > > > > > > > hi> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kisi aur ko hogi. It is not necessary that> we> > > > > agree> > > > > > > > with> > > > > > > > > > each> > > > > > > > > > > > other> > > > > > > > > > > > > on every> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > point. Every individual has his own way of> > > > > seeing> > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > things,> > > > > > > > > > > we> > > > > > > > > > > > > must not> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > raise question mark on that. Fot some Lal> > > Kitab> > > > > is> > > > > > > > > > > just "another> > > > > > > > > > > > > book" of> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrology, for many it is sacrosanct or> > > divine> > > > > > > > scripture,> > > > > > > > > > > whats> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrong with> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that? How a person looks at a filled bottle> > > is> > > > > > > depends> > > > > > > > > > upon> > > > > > > > > > > his> > > > > > > > > > > > own> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > judgment and capacity, why one should try to> > > > > impose> > > > > > > his> > > > > > > > > > > thoughts> > > > > > > > > > > > > over> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anyone? We cannot even force our thoughts on> > > our> > > > > > own> > > > > > > > kids,> > > > > > > > > > so> > > > > > > > > > > how> > > > > > > > > > > > we> > > > > > > > > > > > > can> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > expect others to follow our dictates?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not know about the others but, for me> > > > > knowing> > > > > > > > about> > > > > > > > > > how> > > > > > > > > > > > Pundit> > > > > > > > > > > > > jee> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > use to talk, walk, sit, wear, behave, looks> > > and> > > > > > even> > > > > > > > abuse> > > > > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > > > > no> > > > > > > > > > > > > less> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > significance, if someone has any objection -> > > I> > > > > do> > > > > > not> > > > > > > > > > care.> > > > > > > > > > > And> > > > > > > > > > > > what> > > > > > > > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrong in it if someone produce some point> > > (like> > > > > in> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > case of> > > > > > > > > > > > Bejod> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chhalla) in reference to the words of> > > veterans? A> > > > > > > few> > > > > > > > days> > > > > > > > > > > back a> > > > > > > > > > > > > remedy of> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > keeping Sponge was discussed in the forum,> > > it is> > > > > > > > nowhere> > > > > > > > > > > written> > > > > > > > > > > > in> > > > > > > > > > > > > the book> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as for how many days this sponge is supposed> > > to> > > > > be> > > > > > > > kept in> > > > > > > > > > > case of> > > > > > > > > > > > > Varshphal> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and what to do with this afterwards. I> prefer> > > > > not> > > > > > to> > > > > > > > speak> > > > > > > > > > > about> > > > > > > > > > > > > that as I> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > knew that a demand of "Forensic analysis"> > > will> > > > > > arise> > > > > > > > if I> > > > > > > > > > > forward> > > > > > > > > > > > my> > > > > > > > > > > > > views> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > since the same was conveyed by a non-> > > > > > > > > > professional "VayoVridh"> > > > > > > > > > > Lal> > > > > > > > > > > > > kitab> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > premi.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as running from the participation is> > > > > > > concerned,> > > > > > > > I> > > > > > > > > > would> > > > > > > > > > > > like> > > > > > > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > assure you that Peeth Dikha Kar Bhag jaana> > > meri> > > > > > > fitrat> > > > > > > > > > nahi> > > > > > > > > > > hai.> > > > > > > > > > > > > Browse the> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > achieve, and see how many mails with> Colorful> > > > > > > Headings> > > > > > > > were> > > > > > > > > > > > directed> > > > > > > > > > > > > to me.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But I always took it as a compliment. Even> > > the> > > > > > > gauche> > > > > > > > way> > > > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > > degrade> > > > > > > > > > > > > never> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bothered me. I continued to participate in> > > the> > > > > > > debates> > > > > > > > > > with my> > > > > > > > > > > > > little or no> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > knowledge. But I hate to poke my nose in> > > > > > > controversial> > > > > > > > > > issues> > > > > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > > > > the issues> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > about. If that is called a weakness - I> > > accept it> > > > > > > > > > gleefully.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also read starements about "showing the> > > mirror"> > > > > > > > > > > and "Nishkasit> > > > > > > > > > > > kar> > > > > > > > > > > > > diya> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tha" etc. I always treat you as the shadow> of> > > > > Prof.> > > > > > > > > > Upadhyaye> > > > > > > > > > > jee> > > > > > > > > > > > > who taught> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > me the great lesson of "Forgive and Forget",> > > so I> > > > > > > was a> > > > > > > > > > little> > > > > > > > > > > > > surprised> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (but not at all shocked) with this> > > retaliatory> > > > > > > > attitude.> > > > > > > > > > Now> > > > > > > > > > > you> > > > > > > > > > > > > will agree> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with me that all chickens look gray in the> > > dark.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kulbir jee, whos Lal Kitab business will> > > suffer?> > > > > > Who> > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > > > afraid of> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shudhi-Karan? Whos Chele Chapte will ran> > > away? To> > > > > > > whom> > > > > > > > you> > > > > > > > > > are> > > > > > > > > > > > > refering? I> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > am like a "Nanga Putt Choran Vich> > > Khedey", "Na> > > > > aqal> > > > > > > naa> > > > > > > > > > > maut" - so> > > > > > > > > > > > > have> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nothing to loose. Neither astrology is my> > > bread & > > > > > > > > butter> > > > > > > > > > nor I> > > > > > > > > > > > have> > > > > > > > > > > > > any> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chela-Chapta. But yes, like you, I too have> > > great> > > > > > > > faith in> > > > > > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > > > > > > divine> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > scripture and no one can ever deprived me of> > > > > that.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respectfully> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yograj Prabhakar> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *kulbir bance kulbirbance@* wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gurudev; remember the last line of this book> > > is> > > > > > MADAD> > > > > > > > > > MALIK> > > > > > > > > > > APNI> > > > > > > > > > > > > DEGA,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NEKI KHUD KARTE RAHO.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > baki KUCH TO MAJBURIYAN RAHIN HONGI; YOUNH> > > HI KOI> > > > > > > > BEWAFA> > > > > > > > > > NAHIN> > > > > > > > > > > > HOTA,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pehli majboori; logon ko yeh shaq paida na> ho> > > > > jai> > > > > > ki> > > > > > > > mujhe> > > > > > > > > > > > lalkitab> > > > > > > > > > > > > ki> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > samajh nahin.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > second; why to comment i.e. accept, deny or> > > > > improve> > > > > > > > upon a> > > > > > > > > > > point> > > > > > > > > > > > > which we> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ourselves couldn't point out. bhai hamse> > > badhkar> > > > > > > kaun;> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > please try to understand their difficulty> > > they> > > > > have> > > > > > > > > > > apprehensions> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. their lalkitab commerce will suffer.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. it is difficult to acept that one has> been> > > > > > > > associated> > > > > > > > > > with> > > > > > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > > > > > > book> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for years; but all gone waste; all of sudden> > > > > comes> > > > > > a> > > > > > > > bolt> > > > > > > > > > > that his> > > > > > > > > > > > > approach> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was wrong; how to undo that. its hard to> > > accept> > > > > > > unless> > > > > > > > > > > antarman ka> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shudikaran ho gaya jai.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. thier goodwill and chele chapte/> following> > > > > will> > > > > > > run> > > > > > > > > > away.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so it is convenient to turn a blind eye.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jab pt ji ne shuru me hi likh diya DUNIYAVI> > > HISAB> > > > > > > KITAB> > > > > > > > > > HAI ,> > > > > > > > > > > KOI> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DAWA-E-KHUDAI NAHIN. then what's wrong in> > > > > reviewing> > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > > > discussing.> > > > > > > > > > > > > rome was> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not built in a day, we all can become> > > masters but> > > > > > > > patience> > > > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > > > > integrity is> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a vital ingredient.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sincerely> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kulbirbance> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/29/08, varun_trvd varun_trvd@ wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected members,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is the tragedy; raise a fundamental> > > > > > > astrological> > > > > > > > > > issue> > > > > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > > > > all> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those who claim to have studied the Lal> > > Kitab> > > > > for> > > > > > > > > > decades go> > > > > > > > > > > > > silent.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I had raised a peripheral question> there> > > > > would> > > > > > > > have> > > > > > > > > > been> > > > > > > > > > > at> > > > > > > > > > > > > least> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > half a dozen people participating in an> > > > > agitated> > > > > > > > debate.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Go to the archives and you will find long> > > > > debates> > > > > > > on> > > > > > > > > > issues> > > > > > > > > > > like> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > whether the steel ring should be open at> > > the> > > > > ends> > > > > > > or> > > > > > > > > > > closed, or> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > whether keeping a square piece of silver> > > for> > > > > > > Saturn> > > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > > just> > > > > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > > > find> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > out the nature of the Saturn or it is also> > > a> > > > > part> > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > upaya> > > > > > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so on.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or talk about any myth or a legend about> > > the> > > > > > book,> > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > you> > > > > > > > > > > find> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > every body ready with a myth of their own.> > > > > Every> > > > > > > body> > > > > > > > > > > claiming> > > > > > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > > > be> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > very close to Pandit ji; they would go at> > > great> > > > > > > > lengths> > > > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > > > describe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what he wore, how he walked, how the> > > spirits> > > > > > > dictated> > > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > book> > > > > > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > him and so on. But when it comes to> > > breaking> > > > > some> > > > > > > > > > > astrological> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > misconceptions surrounding this book, none> > > of> > > > > > them> > > > > > > > is to> > > > > > > > > > be> > > > > > > > > > > > seen.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On this current issue under discussion> > > except> > > > > for> > > > > > > > Kulbir> > > > > > > > > > ji> > > > > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raheja ji, no body has come out with any> > > > > comments> > > > > > > > either> > > > > > > > > > > way.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is this apathy to discuss the Lal Kitab> > > and> > > > > > its> > > > > > > > > > contents> > > > > > > > > > > > purely> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with an astrological perspective, which> has> > > > > lead> > > > > > > > other> > > > > > > > > > > > astrologers> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to be vary of it. No wonder that they> > > consider> > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > book> > > > > > > > > > as> > > > > > > > > > > a> > > > > > > > > > > > book> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of Tona-Totkas and the Lal Kitab> > > astrologers as> > > > > > > semi-> > > > > > > > > > > literate> > > > > > > > > > > > > small> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time village pundits. I do not blame> > > others for> > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > > > > > > misconception.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are at fault. It is our own apathy> > > > > responsible> > > > > > > > for it> > > > > > > > > > > because> > > > > > > > > > > > > we> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lack confidence to argue out issues on> > > their> > > > > > > > astrological> > > > > > > > > > > > merits.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, doesn't matter; our effort is to get> > > the> > > > > > > > rightful> > > > > > > > > > > place> > > > > > > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > book deserves in the world of Indian> > > Astrology.> > > > > > > > > > > Participation or> > > > > > > > > > > > > no> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > participation we will continue with our> > > effort.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Never miss a thing. Make your> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > >> homepage.<http://us.rd./evt=51438/*http://www./r/hs> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 Gurudev; going across the 'makaan' [ ghar ke aar-paar bahar ] from # 1 through # 9. from 9 to 12 makes some sense but what is the demarcation that now we talk of makn kundali and now of janam kundali. the concept of image switch and figurative sense holds much appeals as it has also been used at other places in lalkitab . but in this context or in these lines the swich point turns blurred as no indicator has been pointed out; but as pt ji had a poetic mind and even lakitab pharases seem poetic your view holds good atleast for now. sincerely kulbirbance , " varun_trvd " <varun_trvd wrote: > > > Dear Kulbir bhai, > > > segment [ B ] ya makaan se bahar ko nikalen > > I take it as a case of image-switch, where an author switches from one > image to another. In this case Pandit ji while talking about the Janma > kundali switches over to an imaginery ' makaan' as if the janma kundali > is a 'makaan' and we go across the 'makaan' from # 1 to # 9. This is how > I have understood it. > > No, I do not think that there has been any interchange between #1 and > #9. To me they are placed logically because I do not interpret this line > to mean that we have turned back and coming out of the house [ wapas > bahar ki oor laut rahe hai ] . For me the line in its figerative sense, > and not in its literal sense, means that we are going across the > 'makaan' [ ghar ke aar-paar bahar ] from # 1 through # 9. > > > > Have a nice day > > Varun > > > > > , " kulbirbance " > <kulbirbance@> wrote: > > > > > > Varun ji plaese read the very first line of ur message; ya makan se > > bahar ko niklein; makan apperas here or not; had it been janam kubdali > > it would have been written GHARON SE nikal kar bahar ko jaye; this > word > > makan is the bone of contention. > > > > second option is that i and 9 have been interchanged in printing. > > > > sincerely > > > > kulbirbance > > > > > > , " varun_trvd " > > varun_trvd@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Kulbir bhai, > > > > > > > > > > > > The passage under discussion as it appears on page 347 of the 1942 > > book > > > : > > > > > > > > > > > > Kundali ke khana # 1 se chal kar agar 9 ve ko javen ya makan se > bahar > > ko > > > nikalen to jis tarf daayan hath hoga is taraf makan ke tamam grah jo > > > khana 1 se 8 tak honge apana saboot denge > > > > > > Isi tarah barah number khane se apane aap ko khana 9 ki taraf aate > > huye > > > gine ya makan mein bahar se aakar dakhil hone lagen to khana # 12 se > > 12, > > > 11, 10 ke gharon ke grah daayeen taraf makan ke saboot denge. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is how I have understood the passage, I could be wrong. I am > > > explaining the passage in segments so that it is convenient to > > > understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > [ A ] Kundali ke khana # 1 se chal kar agar 9 ve ko javen - > > > > > > > > > > > > Here the opening word of the sentence is kundali and not the makan > > > kundali. Therefore the author is talking about the Janma kundali and > > not > > > about the makan kundali. > > > > > > Thus the sentence means that if one enters the Janma kundali from > the > > > house # 1 and moves towards the house # 9. > > > > > > > > > > > > [ B ] ya makan se bahar ko nikalen > > > > > > > > > > > > This segment could cause a bit of confusion. Here the segment does > not > > > mean that the person turns around to get out of the house because > the > > > word ‘wapas bahar ko nikale’ has not been used. This > > > segment simply means : if he person goes across i.e. if a person > goes > > > across or cuts across from khana # 1 to khana # 9. In other words > this > > > segment simply means ‘imagine yourself entering from the > house > > # > > > 1 and going out through # 9’ . Remember this is just ‘ > > > imagine’. It should not be taken literally nor it should not > be > > > taken to mean that there is a door at khana # 9. This means draw an > > > imaginery line from # 1 cutting across from # 9. > > > > > > > > > > > > [ C ] to jis tarf daayan hath hoga is taraf makan ke tamam grah jo > > khana > > > 1 se 8 tak honge apana saboot denge. > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no confusion in this segment. What it says is true. > > > > > > > > > > > > [ D ] Isi tarah barah number khane se apane aap ko khana 9 ki taraf > > aate > > > huye gine > > > > > > > > > > > > In the segment [ A ] above the author turns right after entering the > > > Janma Kundali khana # 1 towards khana # 2…3.. 4..etc. In this > > > segment he simply means that after entering the Janma Kundali from > the > > > house #1 if you turn Left towards khana # 9 through > > 12…11…10 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [ E ] ya makan mein bahar se aakar dakhil hone lagen > > > > > > > > > > > > In other words enter the house from out side. Then: > > > > > > > > > > > > [ F ] to khana # 12 se 12, 11, 10 ke gharon ke grah daayeen taraf > > makan > > > ke saboot denge. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a problem in this segment. It is here I suspect that there is > a > > > mistake. The word daayeen taraf should read baayeen taraf. Otherwise > > > there is no confusion or problem with this segment. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have explained the way I have understood the passage. If you have > > > understood the passage any differently, you can share with us. > > > > > > > > > > > > Have a nice day > > > > > > > > > > > > Varun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " kulbirbance " > > > kulbirbance@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Varun ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dayein bayein baad me likha hai uske baare baad me hi > > > > sochna; uske pehle khanna no 1 se 9 bahar ka rasta; 12 se 9 andar > ka > > > > rasta. to yah to 12 aur 9 ik hi direction hue ke aur ya phir 1 aur > > > > 12 opposite hue aur 9 hua centre. agar ghar ka darwaza ik hi hai > to > > > > 12, 9 same hi hue yani ki gate ki taraf. > > > > pehle iska to kuch to jawab do > > > > baad ki line baad mein. > > > > it doesn't suits you that you ignore the lines you don't > understand > > > > and make dayein to bayein as it suits you. > > > > either bring a solution to the whole paragraph or please don't do > > > > unneccessary ched chad with one word. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kulbirbance > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " varun_trvd " > > > > varun_trvd@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kulbir Bhai, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ISI TARAH AGAR 12 NO. KHAANE SE APNE AAPKO KHANA NO. 9 KI TARAF > > > > AATEY > > > > > HUVE GINE YA MAKAAN MAIN BAAHAR SE AAKAR DAAKHIL HONE LAGAIN TO > > > > KHANA > > > > > NO. 12 SE 12, 11 10 KE GHARON KE GRAH --DAAYEN (right) TARAF > > > > MAKAAN KE > > > > > --SABOOT DENGEY......... > > > > > > > > > > In this text which appears on page 206 of the 1952 urdu edition > > > > and also > > > > > on page 347 or the 1942 edition I suspect [ I said suspect > because > > > > I do > > > > > not have a proof yet ] that there is a mistake. > > > > > > > > > > The words marked red ' daayen' should read 'baayen' [ left ]. If > > > > the > > > > > correct word is 'baayen' then the entire question is over. > > > > > > > > > > Even if I do not get any proof, till then logically my mind will > > > > not > > > > > accept the text with the word 'daayen' and I will mark the > passage > > > > as > > > > > 'unresolved'. > > > > > > > > > > Therefore I have stopped thinking about it till such time that > > > > some one > > > > > explains the logic of the word daayen to me or I find some proof > > > > that > > > > > there is a mistake in the original book. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Varun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " kulbirbance " > > > > > <kulbirbance@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > gurudev > > > > > > > > > > > > zara dekho aap kya likh rahe ho khanna no 1se 9 ko jate aap > > > > > > ghar ke bhittar reach kar rahe ho kitab kahti hai 1 se 9 jate > > > > waqt > > > > > > bahar jana mana hai. tell me if i am wrong. > > > > > > aap bhitar to 1 se 9 ke raaste se hi aaye na to baat nahin > bani > > > > > > kyonki likha hai 1 se chalkar 9 vein ko jayein ya makan ke > bahar > > > > ko > > > > > > niklein. aur 12 se 9 ko ghar ke bhittar aana mana hai. ab > batao > > > > 12 > > > > > > aur 9 ik direction me hue ya nahin par pehla swaal yeh ki 1 se > 9 > > > > ko > > > > > > chalte aap bahar kaise ja rahe ho. isi liye maine khanna no9 > ki > > > > > > position ke bare poocha tha. uparlikhat se to khanna no 9 > sahan > > > > > > bilkul nahin lagta kyonki aap sahan se bahar darwaze par ja > rahe > > > > ho. > > > > > > itni choti baat ke liye aapko pareshan nahin karta. > > > > > > > > > > > > kulbirbance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " varun_trvd " > > > > > > varun_trvd@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kulbir Bhai, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After reaching the aangan [ house # 9 ] I will have to turn > > > > around > > > > > > > and walk back to the gate I entered from. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Varun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In , " kulbirbance " > > > > > > > <kulbirbance@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > varun ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > agar khanna no 9 makan ka sahan ya aangan hoga to khanna > no > > > > > > > > 1 se 9 ko jakar aap makan se bahar kaise nikal sakte hain > > > > please > > > > > > > > give it a thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kulbirbance > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In , " varun_trvd " > > > > > > > > <varun_trvd@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kulbir bhai, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > khana # 9 kisi bhi makan ka sahan ya aangan hoga. Purane > > > > zamane > > > > > > > > mein > > > > > > > > > sabhi makano mein aagan ghar ke beech mein hota tha. > aagan > > > > ke > > > > > > > > charon > > > > > > > > > tarf kothari ya kamare or varandah hota tha. Bath room > to > > > > ghar > > > > > > > > mein > > > > > > > > > hi hota tha lekin latrine ghar ke bahar hoti thi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kuch zamidar gharon mein do [ two ] aangan hote the, ek > > > > mardana > > > > > > > > aur > > > > > > > > > ek zanana. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aksar sabhi gharon ka ek sa hi naqsha hota tha, bahar ki > > > > tarf > > > > > > > > > baithak / chaupal, kua , ghori bandhne ki jagah, phir > > andar > > > > > > > sahan, > > > > > > > > > jiske charon taraf kamare. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have a nice day, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Varun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " kulbir > bance " > > > > > > > > > <kulbirbance@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Varun ji agar, makkan kundali ki baat karein to khanna > > > > no 9 > > > > > > > > > hamesha makkan > > > > > > > > > > ka centre hoga ya koi aur jagah bhi ho sakti hai. > > > > > > > > > > kulbirbance > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/1/08, varun_trvd <varun_trvd@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kulbir Bhai, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If we are talking about the khana as marked in a > Makan > > > > > > > > Kundali, > > > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > > > > how can khana # 3 & 8 be on the right while entering > ? > > > > > > These > > > > > > > > two > > > > > > > > > > > houses represent south. These two house can be on > the > > > > right > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > > > we enter the house from the west gate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes in the Janma Kundali if we enter from the first > > > > house [ > > > > > > > > > lagna ] > > > > > > > > > > > and go upto the 9th in a zodiac sequence then only > > > > houses > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > 1 > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > 8 can be on the right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore let's be clear which directions are we > > > > talking > > > > > > > about? > > > > > > > > > > > Directions in a Makan Kundali or the directions in a > > > > Janma > > > > > > > > > Kundali ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just a thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have a nice day > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Varun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > > > > <% > > > > > > > > > 40>, > > > > > > > > > > > " kulbirbance " > > > > > > > > > > > <kulbirbance@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > umesh ji seems right, the directions change when > the > > > > > > > > position > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > observer changes. when we enter the place the side > > > > which > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > right side chages to left when we move out. > > > > therefore it > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > safely concluded that when we enter the house > items > > > > via > > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > > > > > posited representing house no 1 to 8 are on right > > > > side, > > > > > > 10- > > > > > > > > 12 > > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > left side and house no.9 is the referance point. > > i.e. > > > > > > > > > directions > > > > > > > > > > > turn > > > > > > > > > > > > like a mirror image i think it is called lateral > > > > > > inversion; > > > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > person going in turns his back towards the > house.i.e > > > > > > > changes > > > > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > > > direction to the referance point i.e. house no9. > > > > > > > > > > > > kulbirbance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---- In > > > > > > > > > <% > > > > > > > > > 40>, > > > > > > > > > > > " Umesh Sharma " > > > > > > > > > > > > <mudit982001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Lalkitabee Ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > In my view this statement has Two different > terms. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. KUNDALI KE KHANA NO. 1 SE CHALKAR AGAR > NAUVAIN > > > > KO > > > > > > > > > > > > > JAYAIN YA MAKAAN SE BAAHAR KO NIKALAIN TO JIS > > > > TARAF - > > > > > > > DAYAAN > > > > > > > > > > > (right) > > > > > > > > > > > > > HAATH HOGAA- US TARAF MAKAAN KE TAMAAM GRAH JO > > > > KHANA > > > > > > NO. > > > > > > > 1 > > > > > > > > SE > > > > > > > > > > > 8 > > > > > > > > > > > > TAK HO > > > > > > > > > > > > > APNA SABOOT DENGEY. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. ISI TARAH AGAR 12 NO. KHAANE SE APNE AAPKO > > KHANA > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NO. 9 KI TARAF AATEY HUVE GINE YA MAKAAN MAIN > > > > BAAHAR > > > > > > SE > > > > > > > > > AAKAR > > > > > > > > > > > > DAAKHIL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HONE LAGAIN TO KHANA NO. 12 SE 12, 11 10 KE > > > > GHARON KE > > > > > > > > > GRAH -- > > > > > > > > > > > > DAAYEN > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (right) TARAF MAKAAN KE --SABOOT DENGEY. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. In first term the person go out side from > > house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. In 2nd term the persaon come in side from out > > > > side. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Both are opposite directins. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umesh Sharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > > > > > > <% > > > > > > > > > 40>, > > > > > > > > > > > " lalkitabee " > > > > > > > > > > > > > <lalkitabee@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhai Yograj ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aapka lalkitab ke original 5 version bina kisi > > > > > > swarth > > > > > > > ke > > > > > > > > > logo > > > > > > > > > > > main > > > > > > > > > > > > > > baantnaa samaaj ke liye ek aisa yogdaan hai > jise > > > > ki > > > > > > > aane > > > > > > > > > wale > > > > > > > > > > > > samay > > > > > > > > > > > > > > main kabhi bhi nahi bhulaayaa ja saktaa. Aapne > > > > ise is > > > > > > > > roop > > > > > > > > > > > main > > > > > > > > > > > > jis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tarah se surakshit kiyaa hai, vah appki > udaartaa > > > > ka > > > > > > > > > parichayak > > > > > > > > > > > > hai.It > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is a great work of great soul like u. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lekin Yograj ji, in 5 books ke baad aglaa daur > > > > jo ab > > > > > > > > shuru > > > > > > > > > hua > > > > > > > > > > > hai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > iski kalpana kuchh logon ke man main aaj se 3 > > > > varsh > > > > > > > > pehley > > > > > > > > > hee > > > > > > > > > > > > thi aur > > > > > > > > > > > > > > uske liye kuchh prayaas kiye gaye, jinhain > kuchh > > > > > > logon > > > > > > > > ne > > > > > > > > > Urdu > > > > > > > > > > > vs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hindi/Dalda ka khitaab dekar darkinaar kar > diyaa > > > > aur > > > > > > > > khud > > > > > > > > > ko > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > tarah > > > > > > > > > > > > > se > > > > > > > > > > > > > > expose kiyaa ki shayad pujyaa pandit ji ki > Rooh > > > > > > unhain > > > > > > > > > lalkitab > > > > > > > > > > > > > samjhaa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kar jaa rahi hai aur unki baat ko hooob- hoo > maan > > > > > > liyaa > > > > > > > > > jaye. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lalkitab > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ki lines main ooper neechey ,aage peechey > > > > ghumaakar > > > > > > ve > > > > > > > > log > > > > > > > > > > > kyaa > > > > > > > > > > > > sabit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karnaa chahtey they samajh nahi aayaa, aaj aap > > > > khud > > > > > > ko > > > > > > > > hee > > > > > > > > > > > dekho > > > > > > > > > > > > aap > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > urdu bahut badhia jaantey hain fir bhi galati > to > > > > ho > > > > > > hi > > > > > > > > > jaati > > > > > > > > > > > hai, > > > > > > > > > > > > arre > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bhai insaan galatiyon ka putlaa hai,Jaise aap > > > > galati > > > > > > > kar > > > > > > > > > > > saktey > > > > > > > > > > > > hain > > > > > > > > > > > > > aur > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bhi kar saktey hain, aaj groups main hum sabhi > > > > isliye > > > > > > > > > ikatthey > > > > > > > > > > > > hotey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hain taaki hum log galatiyon aur bhrantoyon se > > > > alag > > > > > > > > hatkar > > > > > > > > > > > gyaan > > > > > > > > > > > > ek > > > > > > > > > > > > > > doosrey ke jariye prapt kar sakain. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chalo chhodo in baaton ko aur jaraa Original > > > > Lalkitab > > > > > > > > 1952 > > > > > > > > > ke > > > > > > > > > > > > > > page no. 206 par " GRAH KUNDALI KI MAKAAN KE > > > > HISAB SE > > > > > > > > > DURUSTI > > > > > > > > > > > par > > > > > > > > > > > > nazar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > daalo,likhaa hai ki ---KUNDALI KE KHANA NO. 1 > SE > > > > > > > CHALKAR > > > > > > > > > AGAR > > > > > > > > > > > > NAUVAIN > > > > > > > > > > > > > KO > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JAYAIN YA MAKAAN SE BAAHAR KO NIKALAIN TO JIS > > > > TARAF - > > > > > > > > DAYAAN > > > > > > > > > > > > (right) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HAATH HOGAA- US TARAF MAKAAN KE TAMAAM GRAH JO > > > > KHANA > > > > > > > NO. > > > > > > > > 1 > > > > > > > > > SE > > > > > > > > > > > 8 > > > > > > > > > > > > TAK HO > > > > > > > > > > > > > > APNA SABOOT DENGEY, ISI TARAH AGAR 12 NO. > KHAANE > > > > SE > > > > > > > APNE > > > > > > > > > AAPKO > > > > > > > > > > > > KHANA > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NO. 9 KI TARAF AATEY HUVE GINE YA MAKAAN MAIN > > > > BAAHAR > > > > > > SE > > > > > > > > > AAKAR > > > > > > > > > > > > DAAKHIL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HONE LAGAIN TO KHANA NO. 12 SE 12, 11 10 KE > > > > GHARON KE > > > > > > > > > GRAH -- > > > > > > > > > > > > DAAYEN > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (right) TARAF MAKAAN KE --SABOOT DENGEY. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kyaa aisa nahi lag rahaa hai ki yahaan par bhi > > > > kuchh > > > > > > > > > > > contradiction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hai. Dono hee tarah makan ke daayeen taraf > > > > saboot. > > > > > > > Mujhe > > > > > > > > > > > lagtaa > > > > > > > > > > > > hai ki > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yahaan par bhi lalkitab main shayd misprint > hai > > > > ya > > > > > > > > galati > > > > > > > > > ki > > > > > > > > > > > > gunjaish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hai. Aapkaa kyaa vichaar hai? Kyon na hum aur > > > > baaton > > > > > > > par > > > > > > > > > jor > > > > > > > > > > > dene > > > > > > > > > > > > ki > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bajaay is muddey par discussion ko continue > > > > karain. > > > > > > > Agar > > > > > > > > > meraa > > > > > > > > > > > > shak > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jayaj hai to is par gaur kiyaa jaaaye, agar > > > > najayaz > > > > > > hai > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > uskaa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > khulaasa karne ki taqleef karain. Rahee baat > > > > shikve > > > > > > > > > shikayat > > > > > > > > > > > ki-- > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yograaj ji vo to chaltey hee rahengey, Koyee > > > > gyaan > > > > > > lene > > > > > > > > ke > > > > > > > > > > > liye > > > > > > > > > > > > group > > > > > > > > > > > > > > main aayaa ,koyee dene ke liye, koyee paise > > > > batorne > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > koyee > > > > > > > > > > > chele > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ikatthey karney main bhi interested ho saktaaa > > > > hai. > > > > > > In > > > > > > > > sab > > > > > > > > > > > baaton > > > > > > > > > > > > ka > > > > > > > > > > > > > > koyee tharmameter to hai nahi . Who is queen & > > > > who is > > > > > > > > > maid , > > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > shudnt > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be motive all of us.Kyon group main shikvey > > > > shikayat > > > > > > > par > > > > > > > > > jor > > > > > > > > > > > de > > > > > > > > > > > > rahey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ho.Aur apni taraf se main ek baat saaf karnaa > > > > chahtaa > > > > > > > > hoon > > > > > > > > > ki > > > > > > > > > > > > maine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aaina dikhane ki baat un logo ke liye likhi > thi > > > > > > > > > jo ,lalkitab > > > > > > > > > > > ke > > > > > > > > > > > > babat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > poochhey gaye sawaal ke jawab main bola kartey > > > > they > > > > > > ki > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---PROFESSIONALS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > LE UDENGEY -isliye bolnaa thik nahi. aaj is > > group > > > > > > main > > > > > > > > ek > > > > > > > > > ek > > > > > > > > > > > baat > > > > > > > > > > > > kee > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tafseel dene ki koshish ki ja rahee hai, aur > to > > > > aur > > > > > > > > > lalkitab > > > > > > > > > > > ki > > > > > > > > > > > > mool > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pustak ki bhi galatiyaan pakdi jaa rahee hain > > aur > > > > > > > > > > > professionals > > > > > > > > > > > > bhi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > khulkar bol rahey hain jahaan tak unhain pataa > > > > hai. > > > > > > To > > > > > > > > ve > > > > > > > > > log > > > > > > > > > > > aaj > > > > > > > > > > > > kis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gufaa main jaakar baith gaye hain. Sahee > maayno > > > > main > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > shayad > > > > > > > > > > > > aaj is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > group ke yogdaan se ve bhi seekh rahey hongey > ki > > > > > > > > lalkitab > > > > > > > > > ko > > > > > > > > > > > kaise > > > > > > > > > > > > > > padhaa jaye. QAIYDEY KI TARAH YA EK RESEARCH > > > > ORIENTED > > > > > > > > > GRANTH > > > > > > > > > > > KI > > > > > > > > > > > > TARAH. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > agar meri baat theek nahi to un logon ko > yahaan > > > > par > > > > > > > > shirkat > > > > > > > > > > > jaroor > > > > > > > > > > > > > karni > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chahiye. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mere red words ki baabat discussion ko roop > dene > > > > ka > > > > > > > kash > > > > > > > > > > > karain. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pt.lalkitabee > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > V.Shukla > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharaj; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i didn't take anyone's name; how did u reach > > > > the > > > > > > > > > conclusion > > > > > > > > > > > > that it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is aimed at you. to be very frank i had > bhatia > > > > ji > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > mind. > > > > > > > > > > > > nowhere > > > > > > > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > > > > > > u cut > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my viewpoint; it was all started by bhatia > ji > > > > when > > > > > > i > > > > > > > > > asked > > > > > > > > > > > him > > > > > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > foot note and it's authenticity. i am sorry > i > > > > have > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > go > > > > > > > > > > > > personal on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > record > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but just check; he comes in various forums; > > > > tries > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > be a > > > > > > > > > > > > bhisham > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pitama but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gets lost whenever any logical thing is to > be > > > > > > > > discussed. > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > know i > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > proof of many other things about > participation > > > > but > > > > > > > > don't > > > > > > > > > > > want to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > derail the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > process of ongoing discussions by starting a > > > > new > > > > > > > > > controversy; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would you please be kind enough to let me > know > > > > as > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > mail > > > > > > > > > > > > > > point > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > towards you or in which manner did u > interpret > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > baundale hoe bande nu jhunda te paya kapda > wi > > > > bhoot > > > > > > > > pret > > > > > > > > > hi > > > > > > > > > > > > lagda so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have a deep breath and reanalyse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kulbirbains. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/31/08, Yograj Prabhakar yr_prabhakar@ > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Varun jee > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tragedy is not only what you have > > > > mentioned. > > > > > > > > > Another > > > > > > > > > > > great > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tragedy is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that whoever found a " Sonth Kee Ganth " > > starts > > > > > > > > thinking > > > > > > > > > > > > himself a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Pansaaree " , unfortunately we all are > > > > suffering > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > fatal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > disease. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are two kinds of people in Lal > > > > Kitab, " Dil > > > > > > > > > Waley " and > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Deemagh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wale " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dil waley has more Josh than Hosh whereas > > > > Deemagh > > > > > > > > Waley > > > > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hosh but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > less Josh. Both are actually complimentary > > to > > > > > > each > > > > > > > > > other. A > > > > > > > > > > > > > perfect > > > > > > > > > > > > > > blend of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Josh and Hosh is a must to achieve > anything. > > > > Dil > > > > > > > > Walon > > > > > > > > > ne > > > > > > > > > > > toh > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pundit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jee ke > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5 Anmol Rattan bataur Prashad dunia bhar > ko > > > > baant > > > > > > > > kar > > > > > > > > > apne > > > > > > > > > > > > sir se > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kitab ka > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rinn Utaar diya hai. Ab iski Roshni ko > > duniya > > > > > > bhar > > > > > > > > mein > > > > > > > > > > > > phailaney > > > > > > > > > > > > > ki > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > zimmewaree " Deemagh Walon " ki bhi hai. > Agar > > > > aaj > > > > > > Ek > > > > > > > > Ek > > > > > > > > > lafz > > > > > > > > > > > > aur Ek > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ek > > > > > > > > > > > > > > logic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > par agar debate > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ho rahi hai to yaqeen karna, is baat kee > > > > khushi > > > > > > > mujh > > > > > > > > se > > > > > > > > > > > zyada > > > > > > > > > > > > > shayad > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kisi aur ko hogi. It is not necessary that > > we > > > > > > agree > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > each > > > > > > > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on every > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > point. Every individual has his own way of > > > > > > seeing > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > things, > > > > > > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > > > > > > must not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > raise question mark on that. Fot some Lal > > > > Kitab > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > just " another > > > > > > > > > > > > > > book " of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrology, for many it is sacrosanct or > > > > divine > > > > > > > > > scripture, > > > > > > > > > > > > whats > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrong with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that? How a person looks at a filled > bottle > > > > is > > > > > > > > depends > > > > > > > > > > > upon > > > > > > > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > > > > own > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > judgment and capacity, why one should try > to > > > > > > impose > > > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > > > thoughts > > > > > > > > > > > > > > over > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anyone? We cannot even force our thoughts > on > > > > our > > > > > > > own > > > > > > > > > kids, > > > > > > > > > > > so > > > > > > > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > expect others to follow our dictates? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not know about the others but, for me > > > > > > knowing > > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pundit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jee > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > use to talk, walk, sit, wear, behave, > looks > > > > and > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > abuse > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > no > > > > > > > > > > > > > > less > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > significance, if someone has any objection > - > > > > I > > > > > > do > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > care. > > > > > > > > > > > > And > > > > > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrong in it if someone produce some point > > > > (like > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > case of > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bejod > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chhalla) in reference to the words of > > > > veterans? A > > > > > > > > few > > > > > > > > > days > > > > > > > > > > > > back a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > remedy of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > keeping Sponge was discussed in the forum, > > > > it is > > > > > > > > > nowhere > > > > > > > > > > > > written > > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the book > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as for how many days this sponge is > supposed > > > > to > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > kept in > > > > > > > > > > > > case of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Varshphal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and what to do with this afterwards. I > > prefer > > > > > > not > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > speak > > > > > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that as I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > knew that a demand of " Forensic analysis " > > > > will > > > > > > > arise > > > > > > > > > if I > > > > > > > > > > > > forward > > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > views > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > since the same was conveyed by a non- > > > > > > > > > > > professional " VayoVridh " > > > > > > > > > > > > Lal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kitab > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > premi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as running from the participation > is > > > > > > > > concerned, > > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > assure you that Peeth Dikha Kar Bhag jaana > > > > meri > > > > > > > > fitrat > > > > > > > > > > > nahi > > > > > > > > > > > > hai. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Browse the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > achieve, and see how many mails with > > Colorful > > > > > > > > Headings > > > > > > > > > were > > > > > > > > > > > > > directed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But I always took it as a compliment. Even > > > > the > > > > > > > > gauche > > > > > > > > > way > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > degrade > > > > > > > > > > > > > > never > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bothered me. I continued to participate in > > > > the > > > > > > > > debates > > > > > > > > > > > with my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > little or no > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > knowledge. But I hate to poke my nose in > > > > > > > > controversial > > > > > > > > > > > issues > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the issues > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > about. If that is called a weakness - I > > > > accept it > > > > > > > > > > > gleefully. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also read starements about " showing the > > > > mirror " > > > > > > > > > > > > and " Nishkasit > > > > > > > > > > > > > kar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tha " etc. I always treat you as the shadow > > of > > > > > > Prof. > > > > > > > > > > > Upadhyaye > > > > > > > > > > > > jee > > > > > > > > > > > > > > who taught > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > me the great lesson of " Forgive and > Forget " , > > > > so I > > > > > > > > was a > > > > > > > > > > > little > > > > > > > > > > > > > > surprised > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (but not at all shocked) with this > > > > retaliatory > > > > > > > > > attitude. > > > > > > > > > > > Now > > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will agree > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with me that all chickens look gray in the > > > > dark. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kulbir jee, whos Lal Kitab business will > > > > suffer? > > > > > > > Who > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > afraid of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shudhi-Karan? Whos Chele Chapte will ran > > > > away? To > > > > > > > > whom > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > refering? I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > am like a " Nanga Putt Choran Vich > > > > Khedey " , " Na > > > > > > aqal > > > > > > > > naa > > > > > > > > > > > > maut " - so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nothing to loose. Neither astrology is my > > > > bread & > > > > > > > > > butter > > > > > > > > > > > nor I > > > > > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chela-Chapta. But yes, like you, I too > have > > > > great > > > > > > > > > faith in > > > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > divine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > scripture and no one can ever deprived me > of > > > > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respectfully > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yograj Prabhakar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *kulbir bance kulbirbance@* wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gurudev; remember the last line of this > book > > > > is > > > > > > > MADAD > > > > > > > > > > > MALIK > > > > > > > > > > > > APNI > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DEGA, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NEKI KHUD KARTE RAHO. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > baki KUCH TO MAJBURIYAN RAHIN HONGI; YOUNH > > > > HI KOI > > > > > > > > > BEWAFA > > > > > > > > > > > NAHIN > > > > > > > > > > > > > HOTA, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pehli majboori; logon ko yeh shaq paida na > > ho > > > > > > jai > > > > > > > ki > > > > > > > > > mujhe > > > > > > > > > > > > > lalkitab > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ki > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > samajh nahin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > second; why to comment i.e. accept, deny > or > > > > > > improve > > > > > > > > > upon a > > > > > > > > > > > > point > > > > > > > > > > > > > > which we > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ourselves couldn't point out. bhai hamse > > > > badhkar > > > > > > > > kaun; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > please try to understand their difficulty > > > > they > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > apprehensions > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. their lalkitab commerce will suffer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. it is difficult to acept that one has > > been > > > > > > > > > associated > > > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > book > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for years; but all gone waste; all of > sudden > > > > > > comes > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > bolt > > > > > > > > > > > > that his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > approach > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was wrong; how to undo that. its hard to > > > > accept > > > > > > > > unless > > > > > > > > > > > > antarman ka > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shudikaran ho gaya jai. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. thier goodwill and chele chapte/ > > following > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > run > > > > > > > > > > > away. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so it is convenient to turn a blind eye. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jab pt ji ne shuru me hi likh diya > DUNIYAVI > > > > HISAB > > > > > > > > KITAB > > > > > > > > > > > HAI , > > > > > > > > > > > > KOI > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DAWA-E-KHUDAI NAHIN. then what's wrong in > > > > > > reviewing > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > discussing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rome was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not built in a day, we all can become > > > > masters but > > > > > > > > > patience > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > integrity is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a vital ingredient. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sincerely > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kulbirbance > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/29/08, varun_trvd varun_trvd@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected members, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is the tragedy; raise a fundamental > > > > > > > > astrological > > > > > > > > > > > issue > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those who claim to have studied the Lal > > > > Kitab > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > decades go > > > > > > > > > > > > > > silent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I had raised a peripheral question > > there > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > least > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > half a dozen people participating in an > > > > > > agitated > > > > > > > > > debate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Go to the archives and you will find > long > > > > > > debates > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > > issues > > > > > > > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > whether the steel ring should be open at > > > > the > > > > > > ends > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > closed, or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > whether keeping a square piece of silver > > > > for > > > > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > find > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > out the nature of the Saturn or it is > also > > > > a > > > > > > part > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > upaya > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or talk about any myth or a legend about > > > > the > > > > > > > book, > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > find > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > every body ready with a myth of their > own. > > > > > > Every > > > > > > > > body > > > > > > > > > > > > claiming > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > very close to Pandit ji; they would go > at > > > > great > > > > > > > > > lengths > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > describe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what he wore, how he walked, how the > > > > spirits > > > > > > > > dictated > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > book > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > him and so on. But when it comes to > > > > breaking > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > > > > > astrological > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > misconceptions surrounding this book, > none > > > > of > > > > > > > them > > > > > > > > > is to > > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > seen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On this current issue under discussion > > > > except > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > Kulbir > > > > > > > > > > > ji > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raheja ji, no body has come out with any > > > > > > comments > > > > > > > > > either > > > > > > > > > > > > way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is this apathy to discuss the Lal > Kitab > > > > and > > > > > > > its > > > > > > > > > > > contents > > > > > > > > > > > > > purely > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with an astrological perspective, which > > has > > > > > > lead > > > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrologers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to be vary of it. No wonder that they > > > > consider > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > book > > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > book > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of Tona-Totkas and the Lal Kitab > > > > astrologers as > > > > > > > > semi- > > > > > > > > > > > > literate > > > > > > > > > > > > > > small > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time village pundits. I do not blame > > > > others for > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > misconception. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are at fault. It is our own apathy > > > > > > responsible > > > > > > > > > for it > > > > > > > > > > > > because > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lack confidence to argue out issues on > > > > their > > > > > > > > > astrological > > > > > > > > > > > > > merits. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, doesn't matter; our effort is to > get > > > > the > > > > > > > > > rightful > > > > > > > > > > > > place > > > > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > book deserves in the world of Indian > > > > Astrology. > > > > > > > > > > > > Participation or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > no > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > participation we will continue with our > > > > effort. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Never miss a thing. Make your > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > homepage.<http://us.rd./evt=51438/*http://www./r/hs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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