Lal Kitab and its tragedy / Yograj ji

March 31, 2008

Respected Yograj ji,

I am extremely sorry if any of my words have hurt you. I never

intended to hurt any one. I can not even think of hurting any one

let alone you. I know that our Guru Upadhyay ji holds you in the

highest esteem.

I have and will always have the greatest regards and respect for

you. I once again apologize if I have unintentionally hurt your

feelings.

With great regards,

Varun Trivedi

, Yograj Prabhakar

<yr_prabhakar wrote:

>

> Dear Varun jee

>

> The tragedy is not only what you have mentioned. Another great

tragedy is that whoever found a " Sonth Kee Ganth " starts thinking

himself a " Pansaaree " , unfortunately we all are suffering from this

fatal disease.

>

> There are two kinds of people in Lal Kitab, " Dil Waley "

and " Deemagh Wale? Dil waley has more Josh than Hosh whereas Deemagh

Waley has more Hosh but less Josh. Both are actually complimentary

to each other. A perfect blend of Josh and Hosh is a must to achieve

anything. Dil Walon ne toh Pundit jee ke 5 Anmol Rattan bataur

Prashad dunia bhar ko baant kar apne sir se Kitab ka Rinn Utaar diya

hai. Ab iski Roshni ko duniya bhar mein phailaney ki

zimmewaree " Deemagh Walon " ki bhi hai. Agar aaj Ek Ek lafz aur Ek Ek

logic par agar debate

> ho rahi hai to yaqeen karna, is baat kee khushi mujh se zyada

shayad hi kisi aur ko hogi. It is not necessary that we agree with

each other on every point. Every individual has his own way of

seeing the things, we must not raise question mark on that. Fot some

Lal Kitab is just " another book " of astrology, for many it is

sacrosanct or divine scripture, whats wrong with that? How a person

looks at a filled bottle is depends upon his own judgment and

capacity, why one should try to impose his thoughts over anyone? We

cannot even force our thoughts on our own kids, so how we can expect

others to follow our dictates?

>

> I do not know about the others but, for me knowing about how

Pundit jee use to talk, walk, sit, wear, behave, looks and even

abuse is of no less significance, if someone has any objection - I

do not care. And what is wrong in it if someone produce some point

(like in the case of Bejod Chhalla) in reference to the words of

veterans? A few days back a remedy of keeping Sponge was discussed

in the forum, it is nowhere written in the book as for how many days

this sponge is supposed to be kept in case of Varshphal and what to

do with this afterwards. I prefer not to speak about that as I knew

that a demand of " Forensic analysis " will arise if I forward my

views since the same was conveyed by a non-professional " VayoVridh "

Lal kitab premi.

>

> As far as running from the participation is concerned, I would

like to assure you that Peeth Dikha Kar Bhag jaana meri fitrat nahi

hai. Browse the achieve, and see how many mails with Colorful

Headings were directed to me. But I always took it as a compliment.

Even the gauche way to degrade never bothered me. I continued to

participate in the debates with my little or no knowledge. But I

hate to poke my nose in controversial issues and the issues I am not

sure

> about. If that is called a weakness - I accept it gleefully.

>

> I also read starements about " showing the mirror " and " Nishkasit

kar diya tha " etc. I always treat you as the shadow of Prof.

Upadhyaye jee who taught me the great lesson of " Forgive and

Forget " , so I was a little surprised (but not at all shocked) with

this retaliatory attitude. Now you will agree with me that all

chickens look gray in the dark.

>

> Kulbir jee, whos Lal Kitab business will suffer? Who is afraid

of Shudhi-Karan? Whos Chele Chapte will ran away? To whom you are

refering? I am like a " Nanga Putt Choran Vich Khedey " , " Na aqal naa

maut " - so have nothing to loose. Neither astrology is my bread &

butter nor I have any Chela-Chapta. But yes, like you, I too have

great faith in this divine scripture and no one can ever deprived me

of that.

>

> Respectfully

> Yograj Prabhakar

>

> kulbir bance <kulbirbance wrote:

> Gurudev; remember the last line of this book is MADAD MALIK APNI

DEGA, NEKI KHUD KARTE RAHO.

> baki KUCH TO MAJBURIYAN RAHIN HONGI; YOUNH HI KOI BEWAFA NAHIN

HOTA,

> pehli majboori; logon ko yeh shaq paida na ho jai ki mujhe

lalkitab ki samajh nahin.

> second; why to comment i.e. accept, deny or improve upon a point

which we ourselves couldn't point out. bhai hamse badhkar kaun;

> please try to understand their difficulty they have apprehensions

> 1. their lalkitab commerce will suffer.

> 2. it is difficult to acept that one has been associated with

this book for years; but all gone waste; all of sudden comes a bolt

that his approach was wrong; how to undo that. its hard to accept

unless antarman ka shudikaran ho gaya jai.

> 3. thier goodwill and chele chapte/ following will run away.

> so it is convenient to turn a blind eye.

> jab pt ji ne shuru me hi likh diya DUNIYAVI HISAB KITAB HAI , KOI

DAWA-E-KHUDAI NAHIN. then what's wrong in reviewing and discussing.

rome was not built in a day, we all can become masters but patience

and integrity is a vital ingredient.

> sincerely

> kulbirbance

>

> On 3/29/08, varun_trvd <varun_trvd wrote:

> Respected members,

>

> This is the tragedy; raise a fundamental astrological issue and

all

> those who claim to have studied the Lal Kitab for decades go

silent.

> If I had raised a peripheral question there would have been at

least

> half a dozen people participating in an agitated debate.

>

> Go to the archives and you will find long debates on issues like

> whether the steel ring should be open at the ends or closed, or

> whether keeping a square piece of silver for Saturn is just to

find

> out the nature of the Saturn or it is also a part of the upaya

and

> so on.

>

> Or talk about any myth or a legend about the book, and you find

> every body ready with a myth of their own. Every body claiming to

be

> very close to Pandit ji; they would go at great lengths to

describe

> what he wore, how he walked, how the spirits dictated the book to

> him and so on. But when it comes to breaking some astrological

> misconceptions surrounding this book, none of them is to be seen.

>

> On this current issue under discussion except for Kulbir ji and

> Raheja ji, no body has come out with any comments either way.

>

> It is this apathy to discuss the Lal Kitab and its contents purely

> with an astrological perspective, which has lead other astrologers

> to be vary of it. No wonder that they consider this book as a

book

> of Tona-Totkas and the Lal Kitab astrologers as semi-literate

small

> time village pundits. I do not blame others for this

misconception.

> We are at fault. It is our own apathy responsible for it because

we

> lack confidence to argue out issues on their astrological merits.

>

> Well, doesn't matter; our effort is to get the rightful place this

> book deserves in the world of Indian Astrology. Participation or

no

> participation we will continue with our effort.

>

> Regards,

>

> Varun Trivedi

>

> Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

>

March 31, 2008

Maharaj; i didn't take anyone's name; how did u reach the conclusion that it is aimed at you. to be very frank i had bhatia ji in mind. nowhere did u cut my viewpoint; it was all started by bhatia ji when i asked him about his foot note and it's authenticity. i am sorry i have to go personal on record but just check; he comes in various forums; tries to be a bhisham pitama but gets lost whenever any logical thing is to be discussed. you know i have proof of many other things about participation but don't want to derail the process of ongoing discussions by starting a new controversy;

would you please be kind enough to let me know as to where did my mail point towards you or in which manner did u interpret it.

baundale hoe bande nu jhunda te paya kapda wi bhoot pret hi lagda so just have a deep breath and reanalyse.

kulbirbains.

On 3/31/08, Yograj Prabhakar <yr_prabhakar wrote:

Dear Varun jee

The tragedy is not only what you have mentioned. Another great tragedy is that whoever found a " Sonth Kee Ganth " starts thinking himself a " Pansaaree " , unfortunately we all are suffering from this fatal disease.

There are two kinds of people in Lal Kitab, " Dil Waley " and " Deemagh Wale" Dil waley has more Josh than Hosh whereas Deemagh Waley has more Hosh but less Josh. Both are actually complimentary to each other. A perfect blend of Josh and Hosh is a must to achieve anything. Dil Walon ne toh Pundit jee ke 5 Anmol Rattan bataur Prashad dunia bhar ko baant kar apne sir se Kitab ka Rinn Utaar diya hai. Ab iski Roshni ko duniya bhar mein phailaney ki zimmewaree " Deemagh Walon " ki bhi hai. Agar aaj Ek Ek lafz aur Ek Ek logic par agar debate

ho rahi hai to yaqeen karna, is baat kee khushi mujh se zyada shayad hi kisi aur ko hogi. It is not necessary that we agree with each other on every point. Every individual has his own way of seeing the things, we must not raise question mark on that. Fot some Lal Kitab is just " another book " of astrology, for many it is sacrosanct or divine scripture, whats wrong with that? How a person looks at a filled bottle is depends upon his own judgment and capacity, why one should try to impose his thoughts over anyone? We cannot even force our thoughts on our own kids, so how we can expect others to follow our dictates?

I do not know about the others but, for me knowing about how Pundit jee use to talk, walk, sit, wear, behave, looks and even abuse is of no less significance, if someone has any objection - I do not care. And what is wrong in it if someone produce some point (like in the case of Bejod Chhalla) in reference to the words of veterans? A few days back a remedy of keeping Sponge was discussed in the forum, it is nowhere written in the book as for how many days this sponge is supposed to be kept in case of Varshphal and what to do with this afterwards. I prefer not to speak about that as I knew that a demand of " Forensic analysis " will arise if I forward my views since the same was conveyed by a non-professional " VayoVridh " Lal kitab premi.

As far as running from the participation is concerned, I would like to assure you that Peeth Dikha Kar Bhag jaana meri fitrat nahi hai. Browse the achieve, and see how many mails with Colorful Headings were directed to me. But I always took it as a compliment. Even the gauche way to degrade never bothered me. I continued to participate in the debates with my little or no knowledge. But I hate to poke my nose in controversial issues and the issues I am not sure

about. If that is called a weakness - I accept it gleefully.

I also read starements about " showing the mirror " and " Nishkasit kar diya tha " etc. I always treat you as the shadow of Prof. Upadhyaye jee who taught me the great lesson of " Forgive and Forget " , so I was a little surprised (but not at all shocked) with this retaliatory attitude. Now you will agree with me that all chickens look gray in the dark.

Kulbir jee, whos Lal Kitab business will suffer? Who is afraid of Shudhi-Karan? Whos Chele Chapte will ran away? To whom you are refering? I am like a " Nanga Putt Choran Vich Khedey " , " Na aqal naa maut " - so have nothing to loose. Neither astrology is my bread & butter nor I have any Chela-Chapta. But yes, like you, I too have great faith in this divine scripture and no one can ever deprived me of that.

Respectfully

Yograj Prabhakarkulbir bance <kulbirbance wrote:

Gurudev; remember the last line of this book is MADAD MALIK APNI DEGA, NEKI KHUD KARTE RAHO.

baki KUCH TO MAJBURIYAN RAHIN HONGI; YOUNH HI KOI BEWAFA NAHIN HOTA,

pehli majboori; logon ko yeh shaq paida na ho jai ki mujhe lalkitab ki samajh nahin.

second; why to comment i.e. accept, deny or improve upon a point which we ourselves couldn't point out. bhai hamse badhkar kaun;

please try to understand their difficulty they have apprehensions

1. their lalkitab commerce will suffer.

2. it is difficult to acept that one has been associated with this book for years; but all gone waste; all of sudden comes a bolt that his approach was wrong; how to undo that. its hard to accept unless antarman ka shudikaran ho gaya jai.

3. thier goodwill and chele chapte/ following will run away.

so it is convenient to turn a blind eye.

jab pt ji ne shuru me hi likh diya DUNIYAVI HISAB KITAB HAI , KOI DAWA-E-KHUDAI NAHIN. then what's wrong in reviewing and discussing. rome was not built in a day, we all can become masters but patience and integrity is a vital ingredient.

sincerely

kulbirbance

On 3/29/08, varun_trvd <varun_trvd wrote:

Respected members,This is the tragedy; raise a fundamental astrological issue and all those who claim to have studied the Lal Kitab for decades go silent. If I had raised a peripheral question there would have been at least

half a dozen people participating in an agitated debate. Go to the archives and you will find long debates on issues like whether the steel ring should be open at the ends or closed, or whether keeping a square piece of silver for Saturn is just to find

out the nature of the Saturn or it is also a part of the upaya and so on.Or talk about any myth or a legend about the book, and you find every body ready with a myth of their own. Every body claiming to be

very close to Pandit ji; they would go at great lengths to describe what he wore, how he walked, how the spirits dictated the book to him and so on. But when it comes to breaking some astrological misconceptions surrounding this book, none of them is to be seen.

On this current issue under discussion except for Kulbir ji and Raheja ji, no body has come out with any comments either way.It is this apathy to discuss the Lal Kitab and its contents purely with an astrological perspective, which has lead other astrologers

to be vary of it. No wonder that they consider this book as a book of Tona-Totkas and the Lal Kitab astrologers as semi-literate small time village pundits. I do not blame others for this misconception. We are at fault. It is our own apathy responsible for it because we

lack confidence to argue out issues on their astrological merits.Well, doesn't matter; our effort is to get the rightful place this book deserves in the world of Indian Astrology. Participation or no participation we will continue with our effort.

Regards,Varun Trivedi

Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

March 31, 2008

Bhai Yograj ji

aapka lalkitab ke original 5 version bina kisi swarth ke logo main baantnaa samaaj ke liye ek aisa yogdaan hai jise ki aane wale samay main kabhi bhi nahi bhulaayaa ja saktaa. Aapne ise is roop main jis tarah se surakshitv kiyaa hai, vah appki udaartaa ka parichayak hai.It is a great work of great soul like u.

Lekin Yograj ji, in 5 books ke baad aglaa daur jo ab shuru hua hai iski kalpana kuchh logon ke man main aaj se 3 varsh pehley hee thi aur uske liye kuchh prayaas kiye gaye, jinhain kuchh logon ne Urdu vs Hindi/Dalda ka khitaab dekar darkinaar kar diyaa aur khud ko is tarah se expose kiyaa ki shayad pujyaa pandit ji ki Rooh unhain lalkitab samjhaa kar jaa rarahi hai aur unki baat ko hooob-hoo maan liyaa jaye. Lalkitab ki lines main ooper neechey ,aage peechey ghumaakar ve log kyaa sabit karnaa chahtey they samajh nahi aayaa, aaj aap khud ko hee dekho aap to urdu bahut badhia jaantey hain fir bhi galati to ho hi jaati hai, arre bhai insaan galatiyon ka putlaa hai,Jaise aap galati kar saktey hain aur bhi kar saktey hain, aaj groups main hum sabhi isliye ikatthey hotey hain taaki hum log galatiyon aur bhrantoyon se alag hatkar gyaan ek doosrey ke jariye prapt kar sakain.

Chalo chhodo in baaton ko aur jaraa Original Lalkitab 1952 ke page no. 206 par "GRAH KUNDALI KI MAKAAN KE HISAB SE DURUSTI par nazar daalo,likhaa hai ki ---KUNDALI KE KHANA NO. 1 SE CHALKAR AGAR NAUVAIN KO JAYAIN YA MAKAAN SE BAAHAR KO NIKALAIN TO JIS TARAF -DAYAAN (right) HAATH HOGAA- US TARAF MAKAAN KE TAMAAM GRAH JO KHANA NO. 1 SE 8 TAK HO APNA SABOOT DENGEY, ISI TARAH AGAR 12 NO. KHAANE SE APNE AAPKO KHANA NO. 9 KI TARAF AATEY HUVE GINE YA MAKAAN MAIN BAAHAR SE AAKAR DAAKHIL HONE LAGAIN TO KHANA NO. 12 SE 12, 11 10 KE GHARON KE GRAH --DAAYEN (right) TARAF MAKAAN KE --SABOOT DENGEY.

Kyaa aisa nahi lag rahaa hai ki yahaan par bhi kuchh contradiction hai. Dono hee tarah makan ke daayeen taraf saboot. Mujhe lagtaa hai ki yahaan par bhi lalkitab main shayd misprint hai ya galati ki gunjaish hai. Aapkaa kyaa vichaar hai? Kyon na hum aur baaton par jor dene ki bajaay is muddey par discussion ko continue karain. Agar meraa shak jayaj hai to is par gaur kiyaa jaaaye, agar najayaz hai to uskaa khulaasa karne ki taqleef karain. Rahee baat shikve shikayat ki-- to yograaj ji vo to chaltey hee rahengey, Koyee gyaan lene ke liye group main aayaa ,koyee dene ke liye, koyee paise batorne to koyee chele ikatthey karney main bhi interested ho saktaaa hai. In sab baaton ka koyee tharmameter to hai nahi . Who is queen & who is maid , it shudnt be motive all of us.Kyon group main shikvey shikayat par jor de rahey ho.Aur apni taraf se main ek baat saaf karnaa chahtaa hoon ki maine Aaina dikhane ki baat un logo ke liye likhi thi jo ,lalkitab ke babat poochhey gaye sawaal ke jawab main bola kartey they ki ---PROFESSIONALS LE UDENGEY -isliye bolnaa thik nahi. aaj is group main ek ek baat kee tafseel dene ki koshish ki ja rahee hai, aur to aur lalkitab ki mool pustak ki bhi galatiyaan pakdi jaa rahee hain aur professionals bhi khulkar bol rahey hain jahaan tak unhain pataa hai. To ve log aaj kis gufaa main jaakar baith gaye hain. Sahee maayno main to shayad aaj is group ke yogdaan se ve bhi seekh rahey hongey ki lalkitab ko kaise padhaa jaye. QAIYDEY KI TARAH YA EK RESEARCH ORIENTED GRANTH KI TARAH. agar meri baat theek nahi to un logon ko yahaan par shirkat jaroor karni chahiye.

Mere red words ki baabat discussion ko roop dene ka kash karain.

Pt.lalkitabee

V.Shukla

wrote:>> Maharaj; > > > i didn't take anyone's name; how did u reach the conclusion that it> is aimed at you. to be very frank i had bhatia ji in mind. nowhere did u cut> my viewpoint; it was all started by bhatia ji when i asked him about his> foot note and it's authenticity. i am sorry i have to go personal on record> but just check; he comes in various forums; tries to be a bhisham pitama but> gets lost whenever any logical thing is to be discussed. you know i have> proof of many other things about participation but don't want to derail the> process of ongoing discussions by starting a new controversy;> would you please be kind enough to let me know as to where did my mail point> towards you or in which manner did u interpret it.> baundale hoe bande nu jhunda te paya kapda wi bhoot pret hi lagda so just> have a deep breath and reanalyse.> > kulbirbains.> > > On 3/31/08, Yograj Prabhakar yr_prabhakar wrote:> >> > Dear Varun jee> >> > The tragedy is not only what you have mentioned. Another great tragedy is> > that whoever found a "Sonth Kee Ganth" starts thinking himself a> > "Pansaaree", unfortunately we all are suffering from this fatal disease.> >> > There are two kinds of people in Lal Kitab, "Dil Waley" and "Deemagh Wale"> > Dil waley has more Josh than Hosh whereas Deemagh Waley has more Hosh but> > less Josh. Both are actually complimentary to each other. A perfect blend of> > Josh and Hosh is a must to achieve anything. Dil Walon ne toh Pundit jee ke> > 5 Anmol Rattan bataur Prashad dunia bhar ko baant kar apne sir se Kitab ka> > Rinn Utaar diya hai. Ab iski Roshni ko duniya bhar mein phailaney ki> > zimmewaree "Deemagh Walon" ki bhi hai. Agar aaj Ek Ek lafz aur Ek Ek logic> > par agar debate> > ho rahi hai to yaqeen karna, is baat kee khushi mujh se zyada shayad hi> > kisi aur ko hogi. It is not necessary that we agree with each other on every> > point. Every individual has his own way of seeing the things, we must not> > raise question mark on that. Fot some Lal Kitab is just "another book" of> > astrology, for many it is sacrosanct or divine scripture, whats wrong with> > that? How a person looks at a filled bottle is depends upon his own> > judgment and capacity, why one should try to impose his thoughts over> > anyone? We cannot even force our thoughts on our own kids, so how we can> > expect others to follow our dictates?> >> > I do not know about the others but, for me knowing about how Pundit jee> > use to talk, walk, sit, wear, behave, looks and even abuse is of no less> > significance, if someone has any objection - I do not care. And what is> > wrong in it if someone produce some point (like in the case of Bejod> > Chhalla) in reference to the words of veterans? A few days back a remedy of> > keeping Sponge was discussed in the forum, it is nowhere written in the book> > as for how many days this sponge is supposed to be kept in case of Varshphal> > and what to do with this afterwards. I prefer not to speak about that as I> > knew that a demand of "Forensic analysis" will arise if I forward my views> > since the same was conveyed by a non-professional "VayoVridh" Lal kitab> > premi.> >> > As far as running from the participation is concerned, I would like to> > assure you that Peeth Dikha Kar Bhag jaana meri fitrat nahi hai. Browse the> > achieve, and see how many mails with Colorful Headings were directed to me.> > But I always took it as a compliment. Even the gauche way to degrade never> > bothered me. I continued to participate in the debates with my little or no> > knowledge. But I hate to poke my nose in controversial issues and the issues> > I am not sure> > about. If that is called a weakness - I accept it gleefully.> >> > I also read starements about "showing the mirror" and "Nishkasit kar diya> > tha" etc. I always treat you as the shadow of Prof. Upadhyaye jee who taught> > me the great lesson of "Forgive and Forget", so I was a little surprised> > (but not at all shocked) with this retaliatory attitude. Now you will agree> > with me that all chickens look gray in the dark.> >> > Kulbir jee, whos Lal Kitab business will suffer? Who is afraid of> > Shudhi-Karan? Whos Chele Chapte will ran away? To whom you are refering? I> > am like a "Nanga Putt Choran Vich Khedey", "Na aqal naa maut" - so have> > nothing to loose. Neither astrology is my bread & butter nor I have any> > Chela-Chapta. But yes, like you, I too have great faith in this divine> > scripture and no one can ever deprived me of that.> >> > Respectfully> > Yograj Prabhakar> >> >> > *kulbir bance kulbirbance* wrote:> >> > Gurudev; remember the last line of this book is MADAD MALIK APNI DEGA,> > NEKI KHUD KARTE RAHO.> > baki KUCH TO MAJBURIYAN RAHIN HONGI; YOUNH HI KOI BEWAFA NAHIN HOTA,> > pehli majboori; logon ko yeh shaq paida na ho jai ki mujhe lalkitab ki> > samajh nahin.> > second; why to comment i.e. accept, deny or improve upon a point which we> > ourselves couldn't point out. bhai hamse badhkar kaun;> > please try to understand their difficulty they have apprehensions> > 1. their lalkitab commerce will suffer.> > 2. it is difficult to acept that one has been associated with this book> > for years; but all gone waste; all of sudden comes a bolt that his approach> > was wrong; how to undo that. its hard to accept unless antarman ka> > shudikaran ho gaya jai.> > 3. thier goodwill and chele chapte/ following will run away.> > so it is convenient to turn a blind eye.> > jab pt ji ne shuru me hi likh diya DUNIYAVI HISAB KITAB HAI , KOI> > DAWA-E-KHUDAI NAHIN. then what's wrong in reviewing and discussing. rome was> > not built in a day, we all can become masters but patience and integrity is> > a vital ingredient.> > sincerely> > kulbirbance> >> >> >> > On 3/29/08, varun_trvd varun_trvd wrote:> > >> > >> > > Respected members,> > >> > > This is the tragedy; raise a fundamental astrological issue and all> > > those who claim to have studied the Lal Kitab for decades go silent.> > > If I had raised a peripheral question there would have been at least> > > half a dozen people participating in an agitated debate.> > >> > > Go to the archives and you will find long debates on issues like> > > whether the steel ring should be open at the ends or closed, or> > > whether keeping a square piece of silver for Saturn is just to find> > > out the nature of the Saturn or it is also a part of the upaya and> > > so on.> > >> > > Or talk about any myth or a legend about the book, and you find> > > every body ready with a myth of their own. Every body claiming to be> > > very close to Pandit ji; they would go at great lengths to describe> > > what he wore, how he walked, how the spirits dictated the book to> > > him and so on. But when it comes to breaking some astrological> > > misconceptions surrounding this book, none of them is to be seen.> > >> > > On this current issue under discussion except for Kulbir ji and> > > Raheja ji, no body has come out with any comments either way.> > >> > > It is this apathy to discuss the Lal Kitab and its contents purely> > > with an astrological perspective, which has lead other astrologers> > > to be vary of it. No wonder that they consider this book as a book> > > of Tona-Totkas and the Lal Kitab astrologers as semi-literate small> > > time village pundits. I do not blame others for this misconception.> > > We are at fault. It is our own apathy responsible for it because we> > > lack confidence to argue out issues on their astrological merits.> > >> > > Well, doesn't matter; our effort is to get the rightful place this> > > book deserves in the world of Indian Astrology. Participation or no> > > participation we will continue with our effort.> > >> > > Regards,> > >> > > Varun Trivedi> > >> > >> > >> >> >> > ------------------------------> > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.<http://us.rd./evt=51438/*http://www./r/hs>> >> > > >>

March 31, 2008

Respected Lalkitabee Ji,In my view this statement has Two different terms.1. KUNDALI KE KHANA NO. 1 SE CHALKAR AGAR NAUVAIN KOJAYAIN YA MAKAAN SE BAAHAR KO NIKALAIN TO JIS TARAF -DAYAAN (right) HAATH HOGAA- US TARAF MAKAAN KE TAMAAM GRAH JO KHANA NO. 1 SE 8 TAK HOAPNA SABOOT DENGEY.2. ISI TARAH AGAR 12 NO. KHAANE SE APNE AAPKO KHANA> NO. 9 KI TARAF AATEY HUVE GINE YA MAKAAN MAIN BAAHAR SE AAKAR DAAKHIL> HONE LAGAIN TO KHANA NO. 12 SE 12, 11 10 KE GHARON KE GRAH --DAAYEN> (right) TARAF MAKAAN KE --SABOOT DENGEY.1. In first term the person go out side from house.2. In 2nd term the persaon come in side from out side.Both are opposite directins. Regards

Umesh Sharma

, "lalkitabee" <lalkitabee wrote:>> Bhai Yograj ji> > aapka lalkitab ke original 5 version bina kisi swarth ke logo main> baantnaa samaaj ke liye ek aisa yogdaan hai jise ki aane wale samay> main kabhi bhi nahi bhulaayaa ja saktaa. Aapne ise is roop main jis> tarah se surakshit kiyaa hai, vah appki udaartaa ka parichayak hai.It> is a great work of great soul like u.> > Lekin Yograj ji, in 5 books ke baad aglaa daur jo ab shuru hua hai> iski kalpana kuchh logon ke man main aaj se 3 varsh pehley hee thi aur> uske liye kuchh prayaas kiye gaye, jinhain kuchh logon ne Urdu vs> Hindi/Dalda ka khitaab dekar darkinaar kar diyaa aur khud ko is tarah se> expose kiyaa ki shayad pujyaa pandit ji ki Rooh unhain lalkitab samjhaa> kar jaa rahi hai aur unki baat ko hooob-hoo maan liyaa jaye. Lalkitab> ki lines main ooper neechey ,aage peechey ghumaakar ve log kyaa sabit> karnaa chahtey they samajh nahi aayaa, aaj aap khud ko hee dekho aap to> urdu bahut badhia jaantey hain fir bhi galati to ho hi jaati hai, arre> bhai insaan galatiyon ka putlaa hai,Jaise aap galati kar saktey hain aur> bhi kar saktey hain, aaj groups main hum sabhi isliye ikatthey hotey> hain taaki hum log galatiyon aur bhrantoyon se alag hatkar gyaan ek> doosrey ke jariye prapt kar sakain.> > Chalo chhodo in baaton ko aur jaraa Original Lalkitab 1952 ke> page no. 206 par "GRAH KUNDALI KI MAKAAN KE HISAB SE DURUSTI par nazar> daalo,likhaa hai ki ---KUNDALI KE KHANA NO. 1 SE CHALKAR AGAR NAUVAIN KO> JAYAIN YA MAKAAN SE BAAHAR KO NIKALAIN TO JIS TARAF -DAYAAN (right)> HAATH HOGAA- US TARAF MAKAAN KE TAMAAM GRAH JO KHANA NO. 1 SE 8 TAK HO> APNA SABOOT DENGEY, ISI TARAH AGAR 12 NO. KHAANE SE APNE AAPKO KHANA> NO. 9 KI TARAF AATEY HUVE GINE YA MAKAAN MAIN BAAHAR SE AAKAR DAAKHIL> HONE LAGAIN TO KHANA NO. 12 SE 12, 11 10 KE GHARON KE GRAH --DAAYEN> (right) TARAF MAKAAN KE --SABOOT DENGEY.> > Kyaa aisa nahi lag rahaa hai ki yahaan par bhi kuchh contradiction> hai. Dono hee tarah makan ke daayeen taraf saboot. Mujhe lagtaa hai ki> yahaan par bhi lalkitab main shayd misprint hai ya galati ki gunjaish> hai. Aapkaa kyaa vichaar hai? Kyon na hum aur baaton par jor dene ki> bajaay is muddey par discussion ko continue karain. Agar meraa shak> jayaj hai to is par gaur kiyaa jaaaye, agar najayaz hai to uskaa> khulaasa karne ki taqleef karain. Rahee baat shikve shikayat ki-- to> yograaj ji vo to chaltey hee rahengey, Koyee gyaan lene ke liye group> main aayaa ,koyee dene ke liye, koyee paise batorne to koyee chele> ikatthey karney main bhi interested ho saktaaa hai. In sab baaton ka> koyee tharmameter to hai nahi . Who is queen & who is maid , it shudnt> be motive all of us.Kyon group main shikvey shikayat par jor de rahey> ho.Aur apni taraf se main ek baat saaf karnaa chahtaa hoon ki maine> Aaina dikhane ki baat un logo ke liye likhi thi jo ,lalkitab ke babat> poochhey gaye sawaal ke jawab main bola kartey they ki ---PROFESSIONALS> LE UDENGEY -isliye bolnaa thik nahi. aaj is group main ek ek baat kee> tafseel dene ki koshish ki ja rahee hai, aur to aur lalkitab ki mool> pustak ki bhi galatiyaan pakdi jaa rahee hain aur professionals bhi> khulkar bol rahey hain jahaan tak unhain pataa hai. To ve log aaj kis> gufaa main jaakar baith gaye hain. Sahee maayno main to shayad aaj is> group ke yogdaan se ve bhi seekh rahey hongey ki lalkitab ko kaise> padhaa jaye. QAIYDEY KI TARAH YA EK RESEARCH ORIENTED GRANTH KI TARAH.> agar meri baat theek nahi to un logon ko yahaan par shirkat jaroor karni> chahiye.> > Mere red words ki baabat discussion ko roop dene ka kash karain.> > Pt.lalkitabee> > V.Shukla> > wrote:> >> > Maharaj;> >> >> > i didn't take anyone's name; how did u reach the conclusion that it> > is aimed at you. to be very frank i had bhatia ji in mind. nowhere did> u cut> > my viewpoint; it was all started by bhatia ji when i asked him about> his> > foot note and it's authenticity. i am sorry i have to go personal on> record> > but just check; he comes in various forums; tries to be a bhisham> pitama but> > gets lost whenever any logical thing is to be discussed. you know i> have> > proof of many other things about participation but don't want to> derail the> > process of ongoing discussions by starting a new controversy;> > would you please be kind enough to let me know as to where did my mail> point> > towards you or in which manner did u interpret it.> > baundale hoe bande nu jhunda te paya kapda wi bhoot pret hi lagda so> just> > have a deep breath and reanalyse.> >> > kulbirbains.> >> >> > On 3/31/08, Yograj Prabhakar yr_prabhakar@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Varun jee> > >> > > The tragedy is not only what you have mentioned. Another great> tragedy is> > > that whoever found a "Sonth Kee Ganth" starts thinking himself a> > > "Pansaaree", unfortunately we all are suffering from this fatal> disease.> > >> > > There are two kinds of people in Lal Kitab, "Dil Waley" and "Deemagh> Wale"> > > Dil waley has more Josh than Hosh whereas Deemagh Waley has more> Hosh but> > > less Josh. Both are actually complimentary to each other. A perfect> blend of> > > Josh and Hosh is a must to achieve anything. Dil Walon ne toh Pundit> jee ke> > > 5 Anmol Rattan bataur Prashad dunia bhar ko baant kar apne sir se> Kitab ka> > > Rinn Utaar diya hai. Ab iski Roshni ko duniya bhar mein phailaney ki> > > zimmewaree "Deemagh Walon" ki bhi hai. Agar aaj Ek Ek lafz aur Ek Ek> logic> > > par agar debate> > > ho rahi hai to yaqeen karna, is baat kee khushi mujh se zyada shayad> hi> > > kisi aur ko hogi. It is not necessary that we agree with each other> on every> > > point. Every individual has his own way of seeing the things, we> must not> > > raise question mark on that. Fot some Lal Kitab is just "another> book" of> > > astrology, for many it is sacrosanct or divine scripture, whats> wrong with> > > that? How a person looks at a filled bottle is depends upon his own> > > judgment and capacity, why one should try to impose his thoughts> over> > > anyone? We cannot even force our thoughts on our own kids, so how we> can> > > expect others to follow our dictates?> > >> > > I do not know about the others but, for me knowing about how Pundit> jee> > > use to talk, walk, sit, wear, behave, looks and even abuse is of no> less> > > significance, if someone has any objection - I do not care. And what> is> > > wrong in it if someone produce some point (like in the case of Bejod> > > Chhalla) in reference to the words of veterans? A few days back a> remedy of> > > keeping Sponge was discussed in the forum, it is nowhere written in> the book> > > as for how many days this sponge is supposed to be kept in case of> Varshphal> > > and what to do with this afterwards. I prefer not to speak about> that as I> > > knew that a demand of "Forensic analysis" will arise if I forward my> views> > > since the same was conveyed by a non-professional "VayoVridh" Lal> kitab> > > premi.> > >> > > As far as running from the participation is concerned, I would like> to> > > assure you that Peeth Dikha Kar Bhag jaana meri fitrat nahi hai.> Browse the> > > achieve, and see how many mails with Colorful Headings were directed> to me.> > > But I always took it as a compliment. Even the gauche way to degrade> never> > > bothered me. I continued to participate in the debates with my> little or no> > > knowledge. But I hate to poke my nose in controversial issues and> the issues> > > I am not sure> > > about. If that is called a weakness - I accept it gleefully.> > >> > > I also read starements about "showing the mirror" and "Nishkasit kar> diya> > > tha" etc. I always treat you as the shadow of Prof. Upadhyaye jee> who taught> > > me the great lesson of "Forgive and Forget", so I was a little> surprised> > > (but not at all shocked) with this retaliatory attitude. Now you> will agree> > > with me that all chickens look gray in the dark.> > >> > > Kulbir jee, whos Lal Kitab business will suffer? Who is afraid of> > > Shudhi-Karan? Whos Chele Chapte will ran away? To whom you are> refering? I> > > am like a "Nanga Putt Choran Vich Khedey", "Na aqal naa maut" - so> have> > > nothing to loose. Neither astrology is my bread & butter nor I have> any> > > Chela-Chapta. But yes, like you, I too have great faith in this> divine> > > scripture and no one can ever deprived me of that.> > >> > > Respectfully> > > Yograj Prabhakar> > >> > >> > > *kulbir bance kulbirbance@* wrote:> > >> > > Gurudev; remember the last line of this book is MADAD MALIK APNI> DEGA,> > > NEKI KHUD KARTE RAHO.> > > baki KUCH TO MAJBURIYAN RAHIN HONGI; YOUNH HI KOI BEWAFA NAHIN HOTA,> > > pehli majboori; logon ko yeh shaq paida na ho jai ki mujhe lalkitab> ki> > > samajh nahin.> > > second; why to comment i.e. accept, deny or improve upon a point> which we> > > ourselves couldn't point out. bhai hamse badhkar kaun;> > > please try to understand their difficulty they have apprehensions> > > 1. their lalkitab commerce will suffer.> > > 2. it is difficult to acept that one has been associated with this> book> > > for years; but all gone waste; all of sudden comes a bolt that his> approach> > > was wrong; how to undo that. its hard to accept unless antarman ka> > > shudikaran ho gaya jai.> > > 3. thier goodwill and chele chapte/ following will run away.> > > so it is convenient to turn a blind eye.> > > jab pt ji ne shuru me hi likh diya DUNIYAVI HISAB KITAB HAI , KOI> > > DAWA-E-KHUDAI NAHIN. then what's wrong in reviewing and discussing.> rome was> > > not built in a day, we all can become masters but patience and> integrity is> > > a vital ingredient.> > > sincerely> > > kulbirbance> > >> > >> > >> > > On 3/29/08, varun_trvd varun_trvd@ wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Respected members,> > > >> > > > This is the tragedy; raise a fundamental astrological issue and> all> > > > those who claim to have studied the Lal Kitab for decades go> silent.> > > > If I had raised a peripheral question there would have been at> least> > > > half a dozen people participating in an agitated debate.> > > >> > > > Go to the archives and you will find long debates on issues like> > > > whether the steel ring should be open at the ends or closed, or> > > > whether keeping a square piece of silver for Saturn is just to> find> > > > out the nature of the Saturn or it is also a part of the upaya and> > > > so on.> > > >> > > > Or talk about any myth or a legend about the book, and you find> > > > every body ready with a myth of their own. Every body claiming to> be> > > > very close to Pandit ji; they would go at great lengths to> describe> > > > what he wore, how he walked, how the spirits dictated the book to> > > > him and so on. But when it comes to breaking some astrological> > > > misconceptions surrounding this book, none of them is to be seen.> > > >> > > > On this current issue under discussion except for Kulbir ji and> > > > Raheja ji, no body has come out with any comments either way.> > > >> > > > It is this apathy to discuss the Lal Kitab and its contents purely> > > > with an astrological perspective, which has lead other astrologers> > > > to be vary of it. No wonder that they consider this book as a book> > > > of Tona-Totkas and the Lal Kitab astrologers as semi-literate> small> > > > time village pundits. I do not blame others for this> misconception.> > > > We are at fault. It is our own apathy responsible for it because> we> > > > lack confidence to argue out issues on their astrological merits.> > > >> > > > Well, doesn't matter; our effort is to get the rightful place this> > > > book deserves in the world of Indian Astrology. Participation or> no> > > > participation we will continue with our effort.> > > >> > > > Regards,> > > >> > > > Varun Trivedi> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > ------------------------------> > > Never miss a thing. Make your> homepage.<http://us.rd./evt=51438/*http://www./r/hs>> > >> > >> > >> >>

March 31, 2008

Dear Varun JeePlease do not embarrass me. I am not at all hurt. Moreover, I am just trying to emphasize the need to work together in search of truth. Who is participating and who is not is not important, important is the cause. RespectfullyYograj Prabhakarvarun_trvd <varun_trvd wrote: Respected Yograj ji, I am extremely sorry if any of my words have hurt you. I never intended to hurt any one. I can not even think of hurting any one let alone you. I know that our Guru Upadhyay ji holds

you in the highest esteem. I have and will always have the greatest regards and respect for you. I once again apologize if I have unintentionally hurt your feelings. With great regards, Varun Trivedi , Yograj Prabhakar <yr_prabhakar wrote: > > Dear Varun jee > > The tragedy is not only what you have mentioned. Another great tragedy is that whoever found a "Sonth Kee Ganth" starts thinking himself a "Pansaaree", unfortunately we all are suffering from this fatal disease. > > There are two kinds of people in Lal Kitab, "Dil Waley" and "Deemagh Wale? Dil waley has more Josh than Hosh whereas Deemagh Waley has more Hosh but less Josh. Both are actually complimentary to each other. A perfect blend of Josh and

Hosh is a must to achieve anything. Dil Walon ne toh Pundit jee ke 5 Anmol Rattan bataur Prashad dunia bhar ko baant kar apne sir se Kitab ka Rinn Utaar diya hai. Ab iski Roshni ko duniya bhar mein phailaney ki zimmewaree "Deemagh Walon" ki bhi hai. Agar aaj Ek Ek lafz aur Ek Ek logic par agar debate > ho rahi hai to yaqeen karna, is baat kee khushi mujh se zyada shayad hi kisi aur ko hogi. It is not necessary that we agree with each other on every point. Every individual has his own way of seeing the things, we must not raise question mark on that. Fot some Lal Kitab is just "another book" of astrology, for many it is sacrosanct or divine scripture, whats wrong with that? How a person looks at a filled bottle is depends upon his own judgment and capacity, why one should try to impose his thoughts over anyone? We cannot even force our thoughts on our own kids, so how we can expect others to

follow our dictates? > > I do not know about the others but, for me knowing about how Pundit jee use to talk, walk, sit, wear, behave, looks and even abuse is of no less significance, if someone has any objection - I do not care. And what is wrong in it if someone produce some point (like in the case of Bejod Chhalla) in reference to the words of veterans? A few days back a remedy of keeping Sponge was discussed in the forum, it is nowhere written in the book as for how many days this sponge is supposed to be kept in case of Varshphal and what to do with this afterwards. I prefer not to speak about that as I knew that a demand of "Forensic analysis" will arise if I forward my views since the same was conveyed by a non-professional "VayoVridh" Lal kitab premi. > > As far as running from the participation is concerned, I would like to assure you that Peeth Dikha Kar Bhag

jaana meri fitrat nahi hai. Browse the achieve, and see how many mails with Colorful Headings were directed to me. But I always took it as a compliment. Even the gauche way to degrade never bothered me. I continued to participate in the debates with my little or no knowledge. But I hate to poke my nose in controversial issues and the issues I am not sure > about. If that is called a weakness - I accept it gleefully. > > I also read starements about "showing the mirror" and "Nishkasit kar diya tha" etc. I always treat you as the shadow of Prof. Upadhyaye jee who taught me the great lesson of "Forgive and Forget", so I was a little surprised (but not at all shocked) with this retaliatory attitude. Now you will agree with me that all chickens look gray in the dark. > > Kulbir jee, whos Lal Kitab business will suffer? Who is afraid of Shudhi-Karan? Whos Chele Chapte

will ran away? To whom you are refering? I am like a "Nanga Putt Choran Vich Khedey", "Na aqal naa maut" - so have nothing to loose. Neither astrology is my bread & butter nor I have any Chela-Chapta. But yes, like you, I too have great faith in this divine scripture and no one can ever deprived me of that. > > Respectfully > Yograj Prabhakar > > > kulbir bance <kulbirbance wrote: > Gurudev; remember the last line of this book is MADAD MALIK APNI DEGA, NEKI KHUD KARTE RAHO. > baki KUCH TO MAJBURIYAN RAHIN HONGI; YOUNH HI KOI BEWAFA NAHIN HOTA, > pehli majboori; logon ko yeh shaq paida na ho jai ki mujhe lalkitab ki samajh nahin. > second; why to comment i.e. accept, deny or improve upon a point which we ourselves couldn't point out. bhai hamse badhkar kaun; > please try to understand

their difficulty they have apprehensions > 1. their lalkitab commerce will suffer. > 2. it is difficult to acept that one has been associated with this book for years; but all gone waste; all of sudden comes a bolt that his approach was wrong; how to undo that. its hard to accept unless antarman ka shudikaran ho gaya jai. > 3. thier goodwill and chele chapte/ following will run away. > so it is convenient to turn a blind eye. > jab pt ji ne shuru me hi likh diya DUNIYAVI HISAB KITAB HAI , KOI DAWA-E-KHUDAI NAHIN. then what's wrong in reviewing and discussing. rome was not built in a day, we all can become masters but patience and integrity is a vital ingredient. > sincerely > kulbirbance > > > > On 3/29/08, varun_trvd <varun_trvd wrote: > Respected members, > > This is the tragedy; raise a fundamental

astrological issue and all > those who claim to have studied the Lal Kitab for decades go silent. > If I had raised a peripheral question there would have been at least > half a dozen people participating in an agitated debate. > > Go to the archives and you will find long debates on issues like > whether the steel ring should be open at the ends or closed, or > whether keeping a square piece of silver for Saturn is just to find > out the nature of the Saturn or it is also a part of the upaya and > so on. > > Or talk about any myth or a legend about the book, and you find > every body ready with a myth of their own. Every body claiming to be > very close to Pandit ji; they would go at great lengths to describe > what he wore, how he walked, how the spirits dictated the book to > him and so on. But when it comes to

breaking some astrological > misconceptions surrounding this book, none of them is to be seen. > > On this current issue under discussion except for Kulbir ji and > Raheja ji, no body has come out with any comments either way. > > It is this apathy to discuss the Lal Kitab and its contents purely > with an astrological perspective, which has lead other astrologers > to be vary of it. No wonder that they consider this book as a book > of Tona-Totkas and the Lal Kitab astrologers as semi-literate small > time village pundits. I do not blame others for this misconception. > We are at fault. It is our own apathy responsible for it because we > lack confidence to argue out issues on their astrological merits. > > Well, doesn't matter; our effort is to get the rightful place this > book deserves in the world of Indian Astrology.

Participation or no > participation we will continue with our effort. > > Regards, > > Varun Trivedi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. >

OMG, Sweet deal for users/friends: Get A Month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. W00t

April 1, 2008

Dear Vipin BhaiYou must be remembering that about two weeks ago you called me in connection with an going debate in another group, and suggested me something. I followed your advise word by word, remember? The same love and respect for you is the theme of my following lines, hope you will not take it otherwise.Vipin Bhai, I have done nothing, making all the five editions available to every Lal Kitab devotee free of charge was only my Idea, It was a common dream. Apart from others, you and Kulbir also supported me morally in this endevour, so credit of this work goes to you too. Pundit jee maharaj, chhoti chhoti baton par dhyan dena aur halki bhasha (Arey, dekho, suno, kholo etc.) ka istehmal karna chhodiye, yeh apki Garima ke qatayee anuroop nahi hai. Hamarey paas samay bahut thoda hai aur kaam bahut zyada. Koyi kya kehta hai kya sochta hai - is par waqt zaya karney se kya haasil hoga? Kisi ko pundit ji akar kya batatey hain, ya pt. ji ki

rooh se kisi ka direct sattelite link hai - to huya karey? Apko ya kisi aur ko is se kya farak pad gaya? Aaj kal koyi bhi itna moorkh nahee hai jo kisi ki bhi baat par aankh moond kar vishwas kar ley. Isliye hamari nazar Macchhlee ki aank par kendrit honi chahiye, na ki idahar udhar.Rahi baat Qayda-vs-Research oriented granth kee toh mere bhai, meri nacheez samajh ke mutabiq toh har granth ek Qaydey hi ki tarah Nishkapat, saada aur nirmal huya karta hai. Granthiyaan granthon mein nahee padhney samajhney wale ke dil-o-deemagh mein huya karti hain. Ap toh khud ek school master bhi ho aur shastar ke gyata bhi, to apse zyada yeh baat bhala aur kisey maloom hogi? Khair, abhi ap jawan ho thodey kamsin ho, waqt ke sath samajh jayogey. Hum sabhi log abhi "liquid form" mein hain, abhi toh hum sab log pre-nursrey ke vidyarthi hain aur is granth ki alif-bey hi seekh rahe hain, ye bhi seekh payengey ya nahi - maloom nahi. I will comment in due course

to the question you have forwarded to me after studying the point carefully.RespectfullyYograj Prabhakar lalkitabee <lalkitabee wrote: Bhai Yograj ji aapka lalkitab ke original 5 version bina kisi swarth ke logo main baantnaa samaaj ke liye ek aisa yogdaan hai jise ki aane wale samay main kabhi bhi nahi bhulaayaa ja saktaa. Aapne ise is roop main jis tarah se surakshitv kiyaa hai, vah appki udaartaa ka parichayak hai.It is a great work of great soul like u.

Lekin Yograj ji, in 5 books ke baad aglaa daur jo ab shuru hua hai iski kalpana kuchh logon ke man main aaj se 3 varsh pehley hee thi aur uske liye kuchh prayaas kiye gaye, jinhain kuchh logon ne Urdu vs Hindi/Dalda ka khitaab dekar darkinaar kar diyaa aur khud ko is tarah se expose kiyaa ki shayad pujyaa pandit ji ki Rooh unhain lalkitab samjhaa kar jaa rarahi hai aur unki baat ko hooob-hoo maan liyaa jaye. Lalkitab ki lines main ooper neechey ,aage peechey ghumaakar ve log kyaa sabit karnaa chahtey they samajh nahi aayaa, aaj aap khud ko hee dekho aap to urdu bahut badhia jaantey hain fir bhi galati to ho hi jaati hai, arre bhai insaan galatiyon ka putlaa hai,Jaise aap galati kar saktey hain aur bhi kar saktey hain, aaj groups main hum sabhi isliye ikatthey hotey hain taaki hum log galatiyon aur bhrantoyon se alag hatkar gyaan ek doosrey ke jariye prapt kar sakain. Chalo chhodo in

baaton ko aur jaraa Original Lalkitab 1952 ke page no. 206 par "GRAH KUNDALI KI MAKAAN KE HISAB SE DURUSTI par nazar daalo,likhaa hai ki ---KUNDALI KE KHANA NO. 1 SE CHALKAR AGAR NAUVAIN KO JAYAIN YA MAKAAN SE BAAHAR KO NIKALAIN TO JIS TARAF -DAYAAN (right) HAATH HOGAA- US TARAF MAKAAN KE TAMAAM GRAH JO KHANA NO. 1 SE 8 TAK HO APNA SABOOT DENGEY, ISI TARAH AGAR 12 NO. KHAANE SE APNE AAPKO KHANA NO. 9 KI TARAF AATEY HUVE GINE YA MAKAAN MAIN BAAHAR SE AAKAR DAAKHIL HONE LAGAIN TO KHANA NO. 12 SE 12, 11 10 KE GHARON KE GRAH --DAAYEN (right) TARAF MAKAAN KE --SABOOT DENGEY. Kyaa aisa nahi lag rahaa hai ki yahaan par bhi kuchh contradiction hai. Dono hee tarah makan ke daayeen taraf saboot. Mujhe lagtaa hai ki yahaan par bhi lalkitab main shayd misprint hai ya galati ki gunjaish hai. Aapkaa kyaa vichaar hai? Kyon na hum aur baaton par jor dene ki bajaay is muddey par discussion ko continue karain. Agar meraa shak jayaj hai to is par gaur kiyaa jaaaye, agar najayaz hai to uskaa khulaasa karne ki taqleef karain. Rahee baat shikve shikayat ki-- to yograaj ji vo to chaltey hee rahengey, Koyee gyaan lene ke liye group main aayaa ,koyee dene ke liye, koyee paise batorne to

koyee chele ikatthey karney main bhi interested ho saktaaa hai. In sab baaton ka koyee tharmameter to hai nahi . Who is queen & who is maid , it shudnt be motive all of us.Kyon group main shikvey shikayat par jor de rahey ho.Aur apni taraf se main ek baat saaf karnaa chahtaa hoon ki maine Aaina dikhane ki baat un logo ke liye likhi thi jo ,lalkitab ke babat poochhey gaye sawaal ke jawab main bola kartey they ki ---PROFESSIONALS LE UDENGEY -isliye bolnaa thik nahi. aaj is group main ek ek baat kee tafseel dene ki koshish ki ja rahee hai, aur to aur lalkitab ki mool pustak ki bhi galatiyaan pakdi jaa rahee hain aur professionals bhi khulkar bol rahey hain jahaan tak unhain pataa hai. To ve log aaj kis gufaa main jaakar baith gaye hain. Sahee maayno main to shayad aaj is group ke yogdaan se ve bhi seekh rahey hongey ki lalkitab ko kaise padhaa jaye. QAIYDEY KI TARAH YA EK RESEARCH ORIENTED GRANTH KI TARAH. agar meri baat theek nahi to un

logon ko yahaan par shirkat jaroor karni chahiye. Mere red words ki baabat discussion ko roop dene ka kash karain. Pt.lalkitabee V.Shukla wrote:>> Maharaj; > > > i didn't take anyone's name; how did u reach the conclusion that it> is aimed at you. to be very frank i had bhatia ji in mind. nowhere did u cut> my viewpoint; it was all started by bhatia ji when i asked him about his> foot note and it's authenticity. i am sorry i have to go personal on record> but just check; he comes in various forums; tries to be a bhisham pitama but> gets lost whenever any logical thing is to be discussed. you know i have> proof of many other things about participation but don't want to derail the> process of ongoing discussions by starting a new controversy;> would you please be kind enough to let me know as to where

did my mail point> towards you or in which manner did u interpret it.> baundale hoe bande nu jhunda te paya kapda wi bhoot pret hi lagda so just> have a deep breath and reanalyse.> > kulbirbains.> > > On 3/31/08, Yograj Prabhakar yr_prabhakar wrote:> >> > Dear Varun jee> >> > The tragedy is not only what you have mentioned. Another great tragedy is> > that whoever found a "Sonth Kee Ganth" starts thinking himself a> > "Pansaaree", unfortunately we all are suffering from this fatal disease.> >> > There are two kinds of people in Lal Kitab, "Dil Waley" and "Deemagh Wale"> > Dil waley has more Josh than Hosh whereas Deemagh Waley has more Hosh but> > less Josh. Both are actually complimentary to each other. A perfect blend of> > Josh and Hosh is a must to achieve anything. Dil Walon ne toh Pundit jee

ke> > 5 Anmol Rattan bataur Prashad dunia bhar ko baant kar apne sir se Kitab ka> > Rinn Utaar diya hai. Ab iski Roshni ko duniya bhar mein phailaney ki> > zimmewaree "Deemagh Walon" ki bhi hai. Agar aaj Ek Ek lafz aur Ek Ek logic> > par agar debate> > ho rahi hai to yaqeen karna, is baat kee khushi mujh se zyada shayad hi> > kisi aur ko hogi. It is not necessary that we agree with each other on every> > point. Every individual has his own way of seeing the things, we must not> > raise question mark on that. Fot some Lal Kitab is just "another book" of> > astrology, for many it is sacrosanct or divine scripture, whats wrong with> > that? How a person looks at a filled bottle is depends upon his own> > judgment and capacity, why one should try to impose his thoughts over> > anyone? We cannot even force our thoughts on our own kids, so how we can>

> expect others to follow our dictates?> >> > I do not know about the others but, for me knowing about how Pundit jee> > use to talk, walk, sit, wear, behave, looks and even abuse is of no less> > significance, if someone has any objection - I do not care. And what is> > wrong in it if someone produce some point (like in the case of Bejod> > Chhalla) in reference to the words of veterans? A few days back a remedy of> > keeping Sponge was discussed in the forum, it is nowhere written in the book> > as for how many days this sponge is supposed to be kept in case of Varshphal> > and what to do with this afterwards. I prefer not to speak about that as I> > knew that a demand of "Forensic analysis" will arise if I forward my views> > since the same was conveyed by a non-professional "VayoVridh" Lal kitab> > premi.> >> > As far as running

from the participation is concerned, I would like to> > assure you that Peeth Dikha Kar Bhag jaana meri fitrat nahi hai. Browse the> > achieve, and see how many mails with Colorful Headings were directed to me.> > But I always took it as a compliment. Even the gauche way to degrade never> > bothered me. I continued to participate in the debates with my little or no> > knowledge. But I hate to poke my nose in controversial issues and the issues> > I am not sure> > about. If that is called a weakness - I accept it gleefully.> >> > I also read starements about "showing the mirror" and "Nishkasit kar diya> > tha" etc. I always treat you as the shadow of Prof. Upadhyaye jee who taught> > me the great lesson of "Forgive and Forget", so I was a little surprised> > (but not at all shocked) with this retaliatory attitude. Now you will agree> > with me

that all chickens look gray in the dark.> >> > Kulbir jee, whos Lal Kitab business will suffer? Who is afraid of> > Shudhi-Karan? Whos Chele Chapte will ran away? To whom you are refering? I> > am like a "Nanga Putt Choran Vich Khedey", "Na aqal naa maut" - so have> > nothing to loose. Neither astrology is my bread & butter nor I have any> > Chela-Chapta. But yes, like you, I too have great faith in this divine> > scripture and no one can ever deprived me of that.> >> > Respectfully> > Yograj Prabhakar> >> >> > *kulbir bance kulbirbance* wrote:> >> > Gurudev; remember the last line of this book is MADAD MALIK APNI DEGA,> > NEKI KHUD KARTE RAHO.> > baki KUCH TO MAJBURIYAN RAHIN HONGI; YOUNH HI KOI BEWAFA NAHIN HOTA,> > pehli majboori; logon ko yeh shaq paida na ho jai ki mujhe

lalkitab ki> > samajh nahin.> > second; why to comment i.e. accept, deny or improve upon a point which we> > ourselves couldn't point out. bhai hamse badhkar kaun;> > please try to understand their difficulty they have apprehensions> > 1. their lalkitab commerce will suffer.> > 2. it is difficult to acept that one has been associated with this book> > for years; but all gone waste; all of sudden comes a bolt that his approach> > was wrong; how to undo that. its hard to accept unless antarman ka> > shudikaran ho gaya jai.> > 3. thier goodwill and chele chapte/ following will run away.> > so it is convenient to turn a blind eye.> > jab pt ji ne shuru me hi likh diya DUNIYAVI HISAB KITAB HAI , KOI> > DAWA-E-KHUDAI NAHIN. then what's wrong in reviewing and discussing. rome was> > not built in a day, we all can become masters but patience

and integrity is> > a vital ingredient.> > sincerely> > kulbirbance> >> >> >> > On 3/29/08, varun_trvd varun_trvd wrote:> > >> > >> > > Respected members,> > >> > > This is the tragedy; raise a fundamental astrological issue and all> > > those who claim to have studied the Lal Kitab for decades go silent.> > > If I had raised a peripheral question there would have been at least> > > half a dozen people participating in an agitated debate.> > >> > > Go to the archives and you will find long debates on issues like> > > whether the steel ring should be open at the ends or closed, or> > > whether keeping a square piece of silver for Saturn is just to find> > > out the nature of the Saturn or it is also a part of the upaya and>

> > so on.> > >> > > Or talk about any myth or a legend about the book, and you find> > > every body ready with a myth of their own. Every body claiming to be> > > very close to Pandit ji; they would go at great lengths to describe> > > what he wore, how he walked, how the spirits dictated the book to> > > him and so on. But when it comes to breaking some astrological> > > misconceptions surrounding this book, none of them is to be seen.> > >> > > On this current issue under discussion except for Kulbir ji and> > > Raheja ji, no body has come out with any comments either way.> > >> > > It is this apathy to discuss the Lal Kitab and its contents purely> > > with an astrological perspective, which has lead other astrologers> > > to be vary of it. No wonder that they consider this book as a

book> > > of Tona-Totkas and the Lal Kitab astrologers as semi-literate small> > > time village pundits. I do not blame others for this misconception.> > > We are at fault. It is our own apathy responsible for it because we> > > lack confidence to argue out issues on their astrological merits.> > >> > > Well, doesn't matter; our effort is to get the rightful place this> > > book deserves in the world of Indian Astrology. Participation or no> > > participation we will continue with our effort.> > >> > > Regards,> > >> > > Varun Trivedi> > >> > >> > >> >> >> > ------------------------------> > Never miss a thing. Make your

homepage.<http://us.rd./evt=51438/*http://www./r/hs>> >> > > >>

You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.

April 1, 2008

Dear Kulbir jee, I expressed what I felt. But I am relieved to know that I was wrong. No one except Pt. Rup Chand joshi is the Bhishm Pitamah of Lal Kitab.Rahi baat "Baundalney" dee, taan main vi janab dey varga hi Nidar tey Nidhdak banda haan, naa chhoti motti gall naal Baundlya naa aggey nu Baundlanga. tey Jhoond uppar paye kale kapde nu dekh ke mera Shayar zehan sir tey dupatta layee kisey da intzaar kardi sohnee mutiyar dee kalpana taan aa sakdee hai, par bhoot-pret? Varka ee paad deh veer..God bless you alwaysYograj Prabhakarkulbir bance <kulbirbance wrote: Maharaj; i didn't take anyone's name; how did u reach the conclusion that it is aimed at you. to be very frank i had bhatia ji in mind. nowhere did u cut my viewpoint; it was all started by bhatia ji when i asked him about his foot note and it's authenticity. i am sorry i have to go personal on record but just check; he comes in various forums; tries to be a bhisham pitama but gets lost whenever any logical thing is to be discussed. you know i have proof of many other things about participation but don't want to derail the process of ongoing discussions by starting a new controversy; would you please be kind enough to let me know as to where did my mail point towards you or in which manner did u interpret it. baundale hoe bande nu jhunda te paya kapda wi bhoot pret hi lagda so just have a deep breath and reanalyse. kulbirbains.

On 3/31/08, Yograj Prabhakar <yr_prabhakar > wrote: Dear Varun jee The tragedy is not only what you have mentioned. Another great tragedy is that whoever found a "Sonth Kee Ganth" starts thinking himself a "Pansaaree", unfortunately we all are suffering from this fatal disease. There are two kinds of people in Lal Kitab, "Dil Waley" and "Deemagh Wale" Dil waley has more Josh than Hosh whereas Deemagh Waley has more Hosh but less Josh. Both are actually complimentary to each other. A perfect blend of Josh and Hosh is a must to achieve anything. Dil Walon ne toh Pundit jee ke 5 Anmol Rattan bataur Prashad dunia bhar ko baant kar apne sir se Kitab ka Rinn Utaar diya hai. Ab iski Roshni ko duniya bhar mein phailaney ki zimmewaree "Deemagh Walon" ki bhi hai. Agar aaj Ek Ek lafz aur Ek Ek logic par agar debate ho rahi hai to yaqeen karna, is baat kee khushi mujh se zyada shayad hi kisi aur ko hogi. It is not necessary that we agree with each other on every point. Every individual has his own way of seeing the things, we must not raise question mark on that. Fot some Lal Kitab is just "another book" of astrology, for many it is sacrosanct or divine scripture,

whats wrong with that? How a person looks at a filled bottle is depends upon his own judgment and capacity, why one should try to impose his thoughts over anyone? We cannot even force our thoughts on our own kids, so how we can expect others to follow our dictates? I do not know about the others but, for me knowing about how Pundit jee use to talk, walk, sit, wear, behave, looks and even abuse is of no less significance, if someone has any objection - I do not care. And what is wrong in it if someone produce some point (like in the case of Bejod Chhalla) in reference to the words of veterans? A few days back a remedy of keeping Sponge was discussed in the forum, it is nowhere written in the book as for how many days this sponge is supposed to be kept in case of Varshphal and what to do

with this afterwards. I prefer not to speak about that as I knew that a demand of "Forensic analysis" will arise if I forward my views since the same was conveyed by a non-professional "VayoVridh" Lal kitab premi. As far as running from the participation is concerned, I would like to assure you that Peeth Dikha Kar Bhag jaana meri fitrat nahi hai. Browse the achieve, and see how many mails with Colorful Headings were directed to me. But I always took it as a compliment. Even the gauche way to degrade never bothered me. I continued to participate in the debates with my little or no knowledge. But I hate to poke my nose in controversial issues and the issues I am not sure about. If that is called a weakness - I accept it

gleefully. I also read starements about "showing the mirror" and "Nishkasit kar diya tha" etc. I always treat you as the shadow of Prof. Upadhyaye jee who taught me the great lesson of "Forgive and Forget", so I was a little surprised (but not at all shocked) with this retaliatory attitude. Now you will agree with me that all chickens look gray in the dark. Kulbir jee, whos Lal Kitab business will suffer? Who is afraid of Shudhi-Karan? Whos Chele Chapte will ran away? To whom you are refering? I am like a "Nanga Putt Choran Vich Khedey", "Na aqal naa maut" - so have nothing to loose. Neither astrology is my bread & butter nor I have

any Chela-Chapta. But yes, like you, I too have great faith in this divine scripture and no one can ever deprived me of that. Respectfully Yograj Prabhakarkulbir bance <kulbirbance > wrote: Gurudev; remember the last line of this book is MADAD MALIK APNI DEGA, NEKI KHUD KARTE RAHO. baki KUCH TO MAJBURIYAN RAHIN HONGI; YOUNH HI KOI BEWAFA NAHIN HOTA, pehli majboori; logon ko yeh shaq paida na ho jai ki mujhe lalkitab ki samajh nahin. second; why to comment i.e. accept, deny or improve

upon a point which we ourselves couldn't point out. bhai hamse badhkar kaun; please try to understand their difficulty they have apprehensions 1. their lalkitab commerce will suffer. 2. it is difficult to acept that one has been associated with this book for years; but all gone waste; all of sudden comes a bolt that his approach was wrong; how to undo that. its hard to accept unless antarman ka shudikaran ho gaya jai. 3. thier goodwill and chele chapte/ following will run away. so it is convenient to turn a blind eye. jab pt ji ne shuru me hi likh diya DUNIYAVI HISAB KITAB HAI , KOI DAWA-E-KHUDAI NAHIN. then what's wrong in reviewing and discussing. rome was not built in a day, we all can become masters but patience and integrity is a vital ingredient. sincerely kulbirbance On 3/29/08, varun_trvd <varun_trvd (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: Respected members,This is the tragedy; raise a fundamental astrological issue and all those who claim to have studied the Lal Kitab for decades go silent. If I had raised a peripheral question there would have been at least half a dozen people participating in an agitated debate. Go to the archives and you will find long debates on issues like whether the steel ring should be open at the ends or closed, or whether keeping a square piece of silver for Saturn is just to find out the nature of the Saturn or it is also a part of the upaya and so on.Or talk about any myth or a legend about the book, and you find

every body ready with a myth of their own. Every body claiming to be very close to Pandit ji; they would go at great lengths to describe what he wore, how he walked, how the spirits dictated the book to him and so on. But when it comes to breaking some astrological misconceptions surrounding this book, none of them is to be seen. On this current issue under discussion except for Kulbir ji and Raheja ji, no body has come out with any comments either way.It is this apathy to discuss the Lal Kitab and its contents purely with an astrological perspective, which has lead other astrologers to be vary of it. No wonder that they consider this book as a book of Tona-Totkas and the Lal Kitab astrologers as semi-literate small time village pundits. I do not blame others for this misconception. We are at fault. It is our own apathy responsible for it because we lack confidence to argue out issues on their astrological

merits.Well, doesn't matter; our effort is to get the rightful place this book deserves in the world of Indian Astrology. Participation or no participation we will continue with our effort. Regards,Varun Trivedi Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

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April 1, 2008

bhai Yograj ji

Kyaa karoon jis lehzey main lalkitab likhi hai usi lehzey ka put

AAYA HUA READ KARTEY KARTEY. kYAA KAROON teacher hoon na bus isiliye

sabak denaa nahi bhooltaa.khud ko kabhi gyaani nahi maana ,lekin

parmatma se yahi maanga ki kabhi bhi mithya gyan par garvit hone

walon ke aage sheeesh na jhukne denaa.

Itne anajaan bhi na bano ki qaida aur qaayda ka fark bhi

bhool jaao.aapki nirmal buddhi ke mutabik agar hamaarey is varun-

kosh ka koi bhi prayaaas saarthak hai to kripyaa discussions ko hee

continue karne ka kasht karain.aapse yah group bus yahi apeksha

rakhtaa hai, Shayd yahi hum sabki niyati aur prayashchit bhi hai.

Kripyaa aap mere poochhey gaye sawaaal ko nazar anadaaz mat

kariyegaa.Even if i will find something new regarding this i will

share boldly.Ho sakey to is topic ko thodaa samay do ,chahey kitne

hee busy kyon na hon.Main aapko hee address kartaa hoon , kyonki

mujhe pataa hai ki kahaan kyaa bolnaa hai,aur kaun ismain sehyog kar

saktaa hai, varnaa to " bhains ke aagey been bajaaye bhains khadi

paguraaye "

Meri bhasha par comment mat karnaa, main jaisa hoon hajir hoon

aur meri bhashaa hindi ke lihaaz se ek ENRICHED bhasha hai.

Ho sakey to dobaara iltaza hai ki discussion ko guidence dain.

With regards

Pt.Lalkitabee

, Yograj Prabhakar

<yr_prabhakar wrote:

>

> Dear Vipin Bhai

>

> You must be remembering that about two weeks ago you called me in

connection with an going debate in another group, and suggested me

something. I followed your advise word by word, remember? The same

love and respect for you is the theme of my following lines, hope

you will not take it otherwise.

>

> Vipin Bhai, I have done nothing, making all the five editions

available to every Lal Kitab devotee free of charge was only my

Idea, It was a common dream. Apart from others, you and Kulbir also

supported me morally in this endevour, so credit of this work goes

to you too.

>

> Pundit jee maharaj, chhoti chhoti baton par dhyan dena aur halki

bhasha (Arey, dekho, suno, kholo etc.) ka istehmal karna chhodiye,

yeh apki Garima ke qatayee anuroop nahi hai. Hamarey paas samay

bahut thoda hai aur kaam bahut zyada. Koyi kya kehta hai kya sochta

hai - is par waqt zaya karney se kya haasil hoga? Kisi ko pundit ji

akar kya batatey hain, ya pt. ji ki rooh se kisi ka direct sattelite

link hai - to huya karey? Apko ya kisi aur ko is se kya farak pad

gaya? Aaj kal koyi bhi itna moorkh nahee hai jo kisi ki bhi baat par

aankh moond kar vishwas kar ley. Isliye hamari nazar Macchhlee ki

aank par kendrit honi chahiye, na ki idahar udhar.

>

> Rahi baat Qayda-vs-Research oriented granth kee toh mere bhai,

meri nacheez samajh ke mutabiq toh har granth ek Qaydey hi ki tarah

Nishkapat, saada aur nirmal huya karta hai. Granthiyaan granthon

mein nahee padhney samajhney wale ke dil-o-deemagh mein huya karti

hain. Ap toh khud ek school master bhi ho aur shastar ke gyata bhi,

to apse zyada yeh baat bhala aur kisey maloom hogi? Khair, abhi ap

jawan ho thodey kamsin ho, waqt ke sath samajh jayogey. Hum sabhi

log abhi " liquid form " mein hain, abhi toh hum sab log pre-nursrey

ke vidyarthi hain aur is granth ki alif-bey hi seekh rahe hain, ye

bhi seekh payengey ya nahi - maloom nahi.

>

> I will comment in due course to the question you have forwarded to

me after studying the point carefully.

>

> Respectfully

> Yograj Prabhakar

>

> lalkitabee <lalkitabee wrote:

> Bhai Yograj ji

> aapka lalkitab ke original 5 version bina kisi swarth ke logo

main baantnaa samaaj ke liye ek aisa yogdaan hai jise ki aane wale

samay main kabhi bhi nahi bhulaayaa ja saktaa. Aapne ise is roop

main jis tarah se surakshitv kiyaa hai, vah appki udaartaa ka

parichayak hai.It is a great work of great soul like u.

> Lekin Yograj ji, in 5 books ke baad aglaa daur jo ab shuru

hua hai iski kalpana kuchh logon ke man main aaj se 3 varsh pehley

hee thi aur uske liye kuchh prayaas kiye gaye, jinhain kuchh logon

ne Urdu vs Hindi/Dalda ka khitaab dekar darkinaar kar diyaa aur khud

ko is tarah se expose kiyaa ki shayad pujyaa pandit ji ki Rooh

unhain lalkitab samjhaa kar jaa rarahi hai aur unki baat ko hooob-

hoo maan liyaa jaye. Lalkitab ki lines main ooper neechey ,aage

peechey ghumaakar ve log kyaa sabit karnaa chahtey they samajh nahi

aayaa, aaj aap khud ko hee dekho aap to urdu bahut badhia jaantey

hain fir bhi galati to ho hi jaati hai, arre bhai insaan galatiyon

ka putlaa hai,Jaise aap galati kar saktey hain aur bhi kar saktey

hain, aaj groups main hum sabhi isliye ikatthey hotey hain taaki hum

log galatiyon aur bhrantoyon se alag hatkar gyaan ek doosrey ke

jariye prapt kar sakain.

> Chalo chhodo in baaton ko aur jaraa Original Lalkitab

1952 ke page no. 206 par " GRAH KUNDALI KI MAKAAN KE HISAB SE DURUSTI

par nazar daalo,likhaa hai ki ---KUNDALI KE KHANA NO. 1 SE CHALKAR

AGAR NAUVAIN KO JAYAIN YA MAKAAN SE BAAHAR KO NIKALAIN TO JIS TARAF -

DAYAAN (right) HAATH HOGAA- US TARAF MAKAAN KE TAMAAM GRAH JO KHANA

NO. 1 SE 8 TAK HO APNA SABOOT DENGEY, ISI TARAH AGAR 12 NO. KHAANE

SE APNE AAPKO KHANA NO. 9 KI TARAF AATEY HUVE GINE YA MAKAAN MAIN

BAAHAR SE AAKAR DAAKHIL HONE LAGAIN TO KHANA NO. 12 SE 12, 11 10 KE

GHARON KE GRAH --DAAYEN (right) TARAF MAKAAN KE --SABOOT DENGEY.

> Kyaa aisa nahi lag rahaa hai ki yahaan par bhi kuchh

contradiction hai. Dono hee tarah makan ke daayeen taraf saboot.

Mujhe lagtaa hai ki yahaan par bhi lalkitab main shayd misprint hai

ya galati ki gunjaish hai. Aapkaa kyaa vichaar hai? Kyon na hum aur

baaton par jor dene ki bajaay is muddey par discussion ko continue

karain. Agar meraa shak jayaj hai to is par gaur kiyaa jaaaye, agar

najayaz hai to uskaa khulaasa karne ki taqleef karain. Rahee baat

shikve shikayat ki-- to yograaj ji vo to chaltey hee rahengey, Koyee

gyaan lene ke liye group main aayaa ,koyee dene ke liye, koyee paise

batorne to koyee chele ikatthey karney main bhi interested ho

saktaaa hai. In sab baaton ka koyee tharmameter to hai nahi . Who is

queen & who is maid , it shudnt be motive all of us.Kyon group main

shikvey shikayat par jor de rahey ho.Aur apni taraf se main ek baat

saaf karnaa chahtaa hoon ki maine Aaina dikhane ki baat un logo ke

liye likhi thi jo ,lalkitab ke babat poochhey gaye sawaal

> ke jawab main bola kartey they ki ---PROFESSIONALS LE UDENGEY -

isliye bolnaa thik nahi. aaj is group main ek ek baat kee tafseel

dene ki koshish ki ja rahee hai, aur to aur lalkitab ki mool pustak

ki bhi galatiyaan pakdi jaa rahee hain aur professionals bhi khulkar

bol rahey hain jahaan tak unhain pataa hai. To ve log aaj kis gufaa

main jaakar baith gaye hain. Sahee maayno main to shayad aaj is

group ke yogdaan se ve bhi seekh rahey hongey ki lalkitab ko kaise

padhaa jaye. QAIYDEY KI TARAH YA EK RESEARCH ORIENTED GRANTH KI

TARAH. agar meri baat theek nahi to un logon ko yahaan par shirkat

jaroor karni chahiye.

> Mere red words ki baabat discussion ko roop dene ka kash

karain.

> Pt.lalkitabee

> V.Shukla

> wrote:

> >

> > Maharaj;

> >

> > i didn't take anyone's name; how did u reach the conclusion that

it

> > is aimed at you. to be very frank i had bhatia ji in mind.

nowhere did u cut

> > my viewpoint; it was all started by bhatia ji when i asked him

about his

> > foot note and it's authenticity. i am sorry i have to go

personal on record

> > but just check; he comes in various forums; tries to be a

bhisham pitama but

> > gets lost whenever any logical thing is to be discussed. you

know i have

> > proof of many other things about participation but don't want to

derail the

> > process of ongoing discussions by starting a new controversy;

> > would you please be kind enough to let me know as to where did

my mail point

> > towards you or in which manner did u interpret it.

> > baundale hoe bande nu jhunda te paya kapda wi bhoot pret hi

lagda so just

> > have a deep breath and reanalyse.

> >

> > kulbirbains.

> >

> > On 3/31/08, Yograj Prabhakar yr_prabhakar@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Varun jee

> > >

> > > The tragedy is not only what you have mentioned. Another great

tragedy is

> > > that whoever found a " Sonth Kee Ganth " starts thinking himself

a

> > > " Pansaaree " , unfortunately we all are suffering from this

fatal disease.

> > >

> > > There are two kinds of people in Lal Kitab, " Dil Waley "

and " Deemagh Wale "

> > > Dil waley has more Josh than Hosh whereas Deemagh Waley has

more Hosh but

> > > less Josh. Both are actually complimentary to each other. A

perfect blend of

> > > Josh and Hosh is a must to achieve anything. Dil Walon ne toh

Pundit jee ke

> > > 5 Anmol Rattan bataur Prashad dunia bhar ko baant kar apne sir

se Kitab ka

> > > Rinn Utaar diya hai. Ab iski Roshni ko duniya bhar mein

phailaney ki

> > > zimmewaree " Deemagh Walon " ki bhi hai. Agar aaj Ek Ek lafz aur

Ek Ek logic

> > > par agar debate

> > > ho rahi hai to yaqeen karna, is baat kee khushi mujh se zyada

shayad hi

> > > kisi aur ko hogi. It is not necessary that we agree with each

other on every

> > > point. Every individual has his own way of seeing the things,

we must not

> > > raise question mark on that. Fot some Lal Kitab is

just " another book " of

> > > astrology, for many it is sacrosanct or divine scripture,

whats wrong with

> > > that? How a person looks at a filled bottle is depends upon

his own

> > > judgment and capacity, why one should try to impose his

thoughts over

> > > anyone? We cannot even force our thoughts on our own kids, so

how we can

> > > expect others to follow our dictates?

> > >

> > > I do not know about the others but, for me knowing about how

Pundit jee

> > > use to talk, walk, sit, wear, behave, looks and even abuse is

of no less

> > > significance, if someone has any objection - I do not care.

And what is

> > > wrong in it if someone produce some point (like in the case of

Bejod

> > > Chhalla) in reference to the words of veterans? A few days

back a remedy of

> > > keeping Sponge was discussed in the forum, it is nowhere

written in the book

> > > as for how many days this sponge is supposed to be kept in

case of Varshphal

> > > and what to do with this afterwards. I prefer not to speak

about that as I

> > > knew that a demand of " Forensic analysis " will arise if I

forward my views

> > > since the same was conveyed by a non-professional " VayoVridh "

Lal kitab

> > > premi.

> > >

> > > As far as running from the participation is concerned, I would

like to

> > > assure you that Peeth Dikha Kar Bhag jaana meri fitrat nahi

hai. Browse the

> > > achieve, and see how many mails with Colorful Headings were

directed to me.

> > > But I always took it as a compliment. Even the gauche way to

degrade never

> > > bothered me. I continued to participate in the debates with my

little or no

> > > knowledge. But I hate to poke my nose in controversial issues

and the issues

> > > I am not sure

> > > about. If that is called a weakness - I accept it gleefully.

> > >

> > > I also read starements about " showing the mirror "

and " Nishkasit kar diya

> > > tha " etc. I always treat you as the shadow of Prof. Upadhyaye

jee who taught

> > > me the great lesson of " Forgive and Forget " , so I was a little

surprised

> > > (but not at all shocked) with this retaliatory attitude. Now

you will agree

> > > with me that all chickens look gray in the dark.

> > >

> > > Kulbir jee, whos Lal Kitab business will suffer? Who is afraid

of

> > > Shudhi-Karan? Whos Chele Chapte will ran away? To whom you are

refering? I

> > > am like a " Nanga Putt Choran Vich Khedey " , " Na aqal naa maut " -

so have

> > > nothing to loose. Neither astrology is my bread & butter nor I

have any

> > > Chela-Chapta. But yes, like you, I too have great faith in

this divine

> > > scripture and no one can ever deprived me of that.

> > >

> > > Respectfully

> > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > >

> > > *kulbir bance kulbirbance@* wrote:

> > >

> > > Gurudev; remember the last line of this book is MADAD MALIK

APNI DEGA,

> > > NEKI KHUD KARTE RAHO.

> > > baki KUCH TO MAJBURIYAN RAHIN HONGI; YOUNH HI KOI BEWAFA NAHIN

HOTA,

> > > pehli majboori; logon ko yeh shaq paida na ho jai ki mujhe

lalkitab ki

> > > samajh nahin.

> > > second; why to comment i.e. accept, deny or improve upon a

point which we

> > > ourselves couldn't point out. bhai hamse badhkar kaun;

> > > please try to understand their difficulty they have

apprehensions

> > > 1. their lalkitab commerce will suffer.

> > > 2. it is difficult to acept that one has been associated with

this book

> > > for years; but all gone waste; all of sudden comes a bolt that

his approach

> > > was wrong; how to undo that. its hard to accept unless

antarman ka

> > > shudikaran ho gaya jai.

> > > 3. thier goodwill and chele chapte/ following will run away.

> > > so it is convenient to turn a blind eye.

> > > jab pt ji ne shuru me hi likh diya DUNIYAVI HISAB KITAB HAI ,

KOI

> > > DAWA-E-KHUDAI NAHIN. then what's wrong in reviewing and

discussing. rome was

> > > not built in a day, we all can become masters but patience and

integrity is

> > > a vital ingredient.

> > > sincerely

> > > kulbirbance

> > >

> > > On 3/29/08, varun_trvd varun_trvd@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Respected members,

> > > >

> > > > This is the tragedy; raise a fundamental astrological issue

and all

> > > > those who claim to have studied the Lal Kitab for decades go

silent.

> > > > If I had raised a peripheral question there would have been

at least

> > > > half a dozen people participating in an agitated debate.

> > > >

> > > > Go to the archives and you will find long debates on issues

like

> > > > whether the steel ring should be open at the ends or closed,

or

> > > > whether keeping a square piece of silver for Saturn is just

to find

> > > > out the nature of the Saturn or it is also a part of the

upaya and

> > > > so on.

> > > >

> > > > Or talk about any myth or a legend about the book, and you

find

> > > > every body ready with a myth of their own. Every body

claiming to be

> > > > very close to Pandit ji; they would go at great lengths to

describe

> > > > what he wore, how he walked, how the spirits dictated the

book to

> > > > him and so on. But when it comes to breaking some

astrological

> > > > misconceptions surrounding this book, none of them is to be

seen.

> > > >

> > > > On this current issue under discussion except for Kulbir ji

and

> > > > Raheja ji, no body has come out with any comments either way.

> > > >

> > > > It is this apathy to discuss the Lal Kitab and its contents

purely

> > > > with an astrological perspective, which has lead other

astrologers

> > > > to be vary of it. No wonder that they consider this book as

a book

> > > > of Tona-Totkas and the Lal Kitab astrologers as semi-

literate small

> > > > time village pundits. I do not blame others for this

misconception.

> > > > We are at fault. It is our own apathy responsible for it

because we

> > > > lack confidence to argue out issues on their astrological

merits.

> > > >

> > > > Well, doesn't matter; our effort is to get the rightful

place this

> > > > book deserves in the world of Indian Astrology.

Participation or no

> > > > participation we will continue with our effort.

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > >

> > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------

> > > Never miss a thing. Make your

homepage.<http://us.rd./evt=51438/*http://www./r/hs

>

> > >

> >

> You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of

Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.

>

April 1, 2008

Shukla ji maharaj;

kya aapko varshphal ka base; rashi number ke

hisab se bolne wale grah ka basis aur application sab samajh aa

gaye; in sab ki farisat me hi makkan kundali aati hai, kya aapke

pass koi logic hai ki pt ji ne makkan kundali kis base par banaiye.

jab iska base hi nahin pata to kyon ukhli me sar de rahe ho.

maf karna bhasha ki tone ki aazadi aapne hi di hai.

sincerely

kulbirbance

, " lalkitabee "

<lalkitabee wrote:

>

> bhai Yograj ji

>

> Kyaa karoon jis lehzey main lalkitab likhi hai usi lehzey ka put

> AAYA HUA READ KARTEY KARTEY. kYAA KAROON teacher hoon na bus

isiliye

> sabak denaa nahi bhooltaa.khud ko kabhi gyaani nahi maana ,lekin

> parmatma se yahi maanga ki kabhi bhi mithya gyan par garvit hone

> walon ke aage sheeesh na jhukne denaa.

> Itne anajaan bhi na bano ki qaida aur qaayda ka fark bhi

> bhool jaao.aapki nirmal buddhi ke mutabik agar hamaarey is varun-

> kosh ka koi bhi prayaaas saarthak hai to kripyaa discussions ko hee

> continue karne ka kasht karain.aapse yah group bus yahi apeksha

> rakhtaa hai, Shayd yahi hum sabki niyati aur prayashchit bhi hai.

> Kripyaa aap mere poochhey gaye sawaaal ko nazar anadaaz

mat

> kariyegaa.Even if i will find something new regarding this i will

> share boldly.Ho sakey to is topic ko thodaa samay do ,chahey kitne

> hee busy kyon na hon.Main aapko hee address kartaa hoon , kyonki

> mujhe pataa hai ki kahaan kyaa bolnaa hai,aur kaun ismain sehyog

kar

> saktaa hai, varnaa to " bhains ke aagey been bajaaye bhains khadi

> paguraaye "

> Meri bhasha par comment mat karnaa, main jaisa hoon hajir hoon

> aur meri bhashaa hindi ke lihaaz se ek ENRICHED bhasha hai.

> Ho sakey to dobaara iltaza hai ki discussion ko guidence dain.

>

> With regards

>

> Pt.Lalkitabee

>

, Yograj Prabhakar

> <yr_prabhakar@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Vipin Bhai

> >

> > You must be remembering that about two weeks ago you called me

in

> connection with an going debate in another group, and suggested me

> something. I followed your advise word by word, remember? The same

> love and respect for you is the theme of my following lines, hope

> you will not take it otherwise.

> >

> > Vipin Bhai, I have done nothing, making all the five editions

> available to every Lal Kitab devotee free of charge was only my

> Idea, It was a common dream. Apart from others, you and Kulbir also

> supported me morally in this endevour, so credit of this work goes

> to you too.

> >

> > Pundit jee maharaj, chhoti chhoti baton par dhyan dena aur halki

> bhasha (Arey, dekho, suno, kholo etc.) ka istehmal karna chhodiye,

> yeh apki Garima ke qatayee anuroop nahi hai. Hamarey paas samay

> bahut thoda hai aur kaam bahut zyada. Koyi kya kehta hai kya sochta

> hai - is par waqt zaya karney se kya haasil hoga? Kisi ko pundit ji

> akar kya batatey hain, ya pt. ji ki rooh se kisi ka direct

sattelite

> link hai - to huya karey? Apko ya kisi aur ko is se kya farak pad

> gaya? Aaj kal koyi bhi itna moorkh nahee hai jo kisi ki bhi baat

par

> aankh moond kar vishwas kar ley. Isliye hamari nazar Macchhlee ki

> aank par kendrit honi chahiye, na ki idahar udhar.

> >

> > Rahi baat Qayda-vs-Research oriented granth kee toh mere bhai,

> meri nacheez samajh ke mutabiq toh har granth ek Qaydey hi ki tarah

> Nishkapat, saada aur nirmal huya karta hai. Granthiyaan granthon

> mein nahee padhney samajhney wale ke dil-o-deemagh mein huya karti

> hain. Ap toh khud ek school master bhi ho aur shastar ke gyata bhi,

> to apse zyada yeh baat bhala aur kisey maloom hogi? Khair, abhi ap

> jawan ho thodey kamsin ho, waqt ke sath samajh jayogey. Hum sabhi

> log abhi " liquid form " mein hain, abhi toh hum sab log pre-nursrey

> ke vidyarthi hain aur is granth ki alif-bey hi seekh rahe hain, ye

> bhi seekh payengey ya nahi - maloom nahi.

> >

> > I will comment in due course to the question you have forwarded

to

> me after studying the point carefully.

> >

> > Respectfully

> > Yograj Prabhakar

> >

> > lalkitabee <lalkitabee@> wrote:

> > Bhai Yograj ji

> > aapka lalkitab ke original 5 version bina kisi swarth ke logo

> main baantnaa samaaj ke liye ek aisa yogdaan hai jise ki aane

wale

> samay main kabhi bhi nahi bhulaayaa ja saktaa. Aapne ise is roop

> main jis tarah se surakshitv kiyaa hai, vah appki udaartaa ka

> parichayak hai.It is a great work of great soul like u.

> > Lekin Yograj ji, in 5 books ke baad aglaa daur jo ab shuru

> hua hai iski kalpana kuchh logon ke man main aaj se 3 varsh pehley

> hee thi aur uske liye kuchh prayaas kiye gaye, jinhain kuchh logon

> ne Urdu vs Hindi/Dalda ka khitaab dekar darkinaar kar diyaa aur

khud

> ko is tarah se expose kiyaa ki shayad pujyaa pandit ji ki Rooh

> unhain lalkitab samjhaa kar jaa rarahi hai aur unki baat ko hooob-

> hoo maan liyaa jaye. Lalkitab ki lines main ooper neechey ,aage

> peechey ghumaakar ve log kyaa sabit karnaa chahtey they samajh nahi

> aayaa, aaj aap khud ko hee dekho aap to urdu bahut badhia jaantey

> hain fir bhi galati to ho hi jaati hai, arre bhai insaan galatiyon

> ka putlaa hai,Jaise aap galati kar saktey hain aur bhi kar saktey

> hain, aaj groups main hum sabhi isliye ikatthey hotey hain taaki

hum

> log galatiyon aur bhrantoyon se alag hatkar gyaan ek doosrey ke

> jariye prapt kar sakain.

> > Chalo chhodo in baaton ko aur jaraa Original Lalkitab

> 1952 ke page no. 206 par " GRAH KUNDALI KI MAKAAN KE HISAB SE

DURUSTI

> par nazar daalo,likhaa hai ki ---KUNDALI KE KHANA NO. 1 SE CHALKAR

> AGAR NAUVAIN KO JAYAIN YA MAKAAN SE BAAHAR KO NIKALAIN TO JIS

TARAF -

> DAYAAN (right) HAATH HOGAA- US TARAF MAKAAN KE TAMAAM GRAH JO KHANA

> NO. 1 SE 8 TAK HO APNA SABOOT DENGEY, ISI TARAH AGAR 12 NO. KHAANE

> SE APNE AAPKO KHANA NO. 9 KI TARAF AATEY HUVE GINE YA MAKAAN MAIN

> BAAHAR SE AAKAR DAAKHIL HONE LAGAIN TO KHANA NO. 12 SE 12, 11 10

KE

> GHARON KE GRAH --DAAYEN (right) TARAF MAKAAN KE --SABOOT DENGEY.

> > Kyaa aisa nahi lag rahaa hai ki yahaan par bhi kuchh

> contradiction hai. Dono hee tarah makan ke daayeen taraf saboot.

> Mujhe lagtaa hai ki yahaan par bhi lalkitab main shayd misprint hai

> ya galati ki gunjaish hai. Aapkaa kyaa vichaar hai? Kyon na hum aur

> baaton par jor dene ki bajaay is muddey par discussion ko continue

> karain. Agar meraa shak jayaj hai to is par gaur kiyaa jaaaye, agar

> najayaz hai to uskaa khulaasa karne ki taqleef karain. Rahee baat

> shikve shikayat ki-- to yograaj ji vo to chaltey hee rahengey,

Koyee

> gyaan lene ke liye group main aayaa ,koyee dene ke liye, koyee

paise

> batorne to koyee chele ikatthey karney main bhi interested ho

> saktaaa hai. In sab baaton ka koyee tharmameter to hai nahi . Who

is

> queen & who is maid , it shudnt be motive all of us.Kyon group main

> shikvey shikayat par jor de rahey ho.Aur apni taraf se main ek baat

> saaf karnaa chahtaa hoon ki maine Aaina dikhane ki baat un logo ke

> liye likhi thi jo ,lalkitab ke babat poochhey gaye sawaal

> > ke jawab main bola kartey they ki ---PROFESSIONALS LE UDENGEY -

> isliye bolnaa thik nahi. aaj is group main ek ek baat kee tafseel

> dene ki koshish ki ja rahee hai, aur to aur lalkitab ki mool pustak

> ki bhi galatiyaan pakdi jaa rahee hain aur professionals bhi

khulkar

> bol rahey hain jahaan tak unhain pataa hai. To ve log aaj kis gufaa

> main jaakar baith gaye hain. Sahee maayno main to shayad aaj is

> group ke yogdaan se ve bhi seekh rahey hongey ki lalkitab ko kaise

> padhaa jaye. QAIYDEY KI TARAH YA EK RESEARCH ORIENTED GRANTH KI

> TARAH. agar meri baat theek nahi to un logon ko yahaan par shirkat

> jaroor karni chahiye.

> > Mere red words ki baabat discussion ko roop dene ka kash

> karain.

> > Pt.lalkitabee

> > V.Shukla

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Maharaj;

> > >

> > > i didn't take anyone's name; how did u reach the conclusion

that

> it

> > > is aimed at you. to be very frank i had bhatia ji in mind.

> nowhere did u cut

> > > my viewpoint; it was all started by bhatia ji when i asked him

> about his

> > > foot note and it's authenticity. i am sorry i have to go

> personal on record

> > > but just check; he comes in various forums; tries to be a

> bhisham pitama but

> > > gets lost whenever any logical thing is to be discussed. you

> know i have

> > > proof of many other things about participation but don't want

to

> derail the

> > > process of ongoing discussions by starting a new controversy;

> > > would you please be kind enough to let me know as to where did

> my mail point

> > > towards you or in which manner did u interpret it.

> > > baundale hoe bande nu jhunda te paya kapda wi bhoot pret hi

> lagda so just

> > > have a deep breath and reanalyse.

> > >

> > > kulbirbains.

> > >

> > > On 3/31/08, Yograj Prabhakar yr_prabhakar@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Varun jee

> > > >

> > > > The tragedy is not only what you have mentioned. Another

great

> tragedy is

> > > > that whoever found a " Sonth Kee Ganth " starts thinking

himself

> a

> > > > " Pansaaree " , unfortunately we all are suffering from this

> fatal disease.

> > > >

> > > > There are two kinds of people in Lal Kitab, " Dil Waley "

> and " Deemagh Wale "

> > > > Dil waley has more Josh than Hosh whereas Deemagh Waley has

> more Hosh but

> > > > less Josh. Both are actually complimentary to each other. A

> perfect blend of

> > > > Josh and Hosh is a must to achieve anything. Dil Walon ne toh

> Pundit jee ke

> > > > 5 Anmol Rattan bataur Prashad dunia bhar ko baant kar apne

sir

> se Kitab ka

> > > > Rinn Utaar diya hai. Ab iski Roshni ko duniya bhar mein

> phailaney ki

> > > > zimmewaree " Deemagh Walon " ki bhi hai. Agar aaj Ek Ek lafz

aur

> Ek Ek logic

> > > > par agar debate

> > > > ho rahi hai to yaqeen karna, is baat kee khushi mujh se zyada

> shayad hi

> > > > kisi aur ko hogi. It is not necessary that we agree with each

> other on every

> > > > point. Every individual has his own way of seeing the things,

> we must not

> > > > raise question mark on that. Fot some Lal Kitab is

> just " another book " of

> > > > astrology, for many it is sacrosanct or divine scripture,

> whats wrong with

> > > > that? How a person looks at a filled bottle is depends upon

> his own

> > > > judgment and capacity, why one should try to impose his

> thoughts over

> > > > anyone? We cannot even force our thoughts on our own kids, so

> how we can

> > > > expect others to follow our dictates?

> > > >

> > > > I do not know about the others but, for me knowing about how

> Pundit jee

> > > > use to talk, walk, sit, wear, behave, looks and even abuse is

> of no less

> > > > significance, if someone has any objection - I do not care.

> And what is

> > > > wrong in it if someone produce some point (like in the case

of

> Bejod

> > > > Chhalla) in reference to the words of veterans? A few days

> back a remedy of

> > > > keeping Sponge was discussed in the forum, it is nowhere

> written in the book

> > > > as for how many days this sponge is supposed to be kept in

> case of Varshphal

> > > > and what to do with this afterwards. I prefer not to speak

> about that as I

> > > > knew that a demand of " Forensic analysis " will arise if I

> forward my views

> > > > since the same was conveyed by a non-professional " VayoVridh "

> Lal kitab

> > > > premi.

> > > >

> > > > As far as running from the participation is concerned, I

would

> like to

> > > > assure you that Peeth Dikha Kar Bhag jaana meri fitrat nahi

> hai. Browse the

> > > > achieve, and see how many mails with Colorful Headings were

> directed to me.

> > > > But I always took it as a compliment. Even the gauche way to

> degrade never

> > > > bothered me. I continued to participate in the debates with

my

> little or no

> > > > knowledge. But I hate to poke my nose in controversial issues

> and the issues

> > > > I am not sure

> > > > about. If that is called a weakness - I accept it gleefully.

> > > >

> > > > I also read starements about " showing the mirror "

> and " Nishkasit kar diya

> > > > tha " etc. I always treat you as the shadow of Prof. Upadhyaye

> jee who taught

> > > > me the great lesson of " Forgive and Forget " , so I was a

little

> surprised

> > > > (but not at all shocked) with this retaliatory attitude. Now

> you will agree

> > > > with me that all chickens look gray in the dark.

> > > >

> > > > Kulbir jee, whos Lal Kitab business will suffer? Who is

afraid

> of

> > > > Shudhi-Karan? Whos Chele Chapte will ran away? To whom you

are

> refering? I

> > > > am like a " Nanga Putt Choran Vich Khedey " , " Na aqal naa

maut " -

> so have

> > > > nothing to loose. Neither astrology is my bread & butter nor

I

> have any

> > > > Chela-Chapta. But yes, like you, I too have great faith in

> this divine

> > > > scripture and no one can ever deprived me of that.

> > > >

> > > > Respectfully

> > > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > > >

> > > > *kulbir bance kulbirbance@* wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Gurudev; remember the last line of this book is MADAD MALIK

> APNI DEGA,

> > > > NEKI KHUD KARTE RAHO.

> > > > baki KUCH TO MAJBURIYAN RAHIN HONGI; YOUNH HI KOI BEWAFA

NAHIN

> HOTA,

> > > > pehli majboori; logon ko yeh shaq paida na ho jai ki mujhe

> lalkitab ki

> > > > samajh nahin.

> > > > second; why to comment i.e. accept, deny or improve upon a

> point which we

> > > > ourselves couldn't point out. bhai hamse badhkar kaun;

> > > > please try to understand their difficulty they have

> apprehensions

> > > > 1. their lalkitab commerce will suffer.

> > > > 2. it is difficult to acept that one has been associated with

> this book

> > > > for years; but all gone waste; all of sudden comes a bolt

that

> his approach

> > > > was wrong; how to undo that. its hard to accept unless

> antarman ka

> > > > shudikaran ho gaya jai.

> > > > 3. thier goodwill and chele chapte/ following will run away.

> > > > so it is convenient to turn a blind eye.

> > > > jab pt ji ne shuru me hi likh diya DUNIYAVI HISAB KITAB HAI ,

> KOI

> > > > DAWA-E-KHUDAI NAHIN. then what's wrong in reviewing and

> discussing. rome was

> > > > not built in a day, we all can become masters but patience

and

> integrity is

> > > > a vital ingredient.

> > > > sincerely

> > > > kulbirbance

> > > >

> > > > On 3/29/08, varun_trvd varun_trvd@ wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Respected members,

> > > > >

> > > > > This is the tragedy; raise a fundamental astrological issue

> and all

> > > > > those who claim to have studied the Lal Kitab for decades

go

> silent.

> > > > > If I had raised a peripheral question there would have been

> at least

> > > > > half a dozen people participating in an agitated debate.

> > > > >

> > > > > Go to the archives and you will find long debates on issues

> like

> > > > > whether the steel ring should be open at the ends or

closed,

> or

> > > > > whether keeping a square piece of silver for Saturn is just

> to find

> > > > > out the nature of the Saturn or it is also a part of the

> upaya and

> > > > > so on.

> > > > >

> > > > > Or talk about any myth or a legend about the book, and you

> find

> > > > > every body ready with a myth of their own. Every body

> claiming to be

> > > > > very close to Pandit ji; they would go at great lengths to

> describe

> > > > > what he wore, how he walked, how the spirits dictated the

> book to

> > > > > him and so on. But when it comes to breaking some

> astrological

> > > > > misconceptions surrounding this book, none of them is to be

> seen.

> > > > >

> > > > > On this current issue under discussion except for Kulbir ji

> and

> > > > > Raheja ji, no body has come out with any comments either

way.

> > > > >

> > > > > It is this apathy to discuss the Lal Kitab and its contents

> purely

> > > > > with an astrological perspective, which has lead other

> astrologers

> > > > > to be vary of it. No wonder that they consider this book as

> a book

> > > > > of Tona-Totkas and the Lal Kitab astrologers as semi-

> literate small

> > > > > time village pundits. I do not blame others for this

> misconception.

> > > > > We are at fault. It is our own apathy responsible for it

> because we

> > > > > lack confidence to argue out issues on their astrological

> merits.

> > > > >

> > > > > Well, doesn't matter; our effort is to get the rightful

> place this

> > > > > book deserves in the world of Indian Astrology.

> Participation or no

> > > > > participation we will continue with our effort.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > >

> > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------

> > > > Never miss a thing. Make your

>

homepage.<http://us.rd./evt=51438/*http://www./r/hs

> >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of

> Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.

> >

>

April 1, 2008

Respected Kulbir Ji

Agar hamain kisi logic ka ya kisi baat ke aadhaar ka pataa nahi ho to

yah maan lenaa ki iskaa logic ya base ho hee nahi saktaa ya fir kisi

aur ko bhi iskaa logic nahi pataa hogaa, aisaa sochnaa to saraasar

galat hogaa.

Ho saktaa hai ki kisi aur ko pataa ho aur hamaaraa shak

be-buniyaad hee ho. Bus isi karan se maine poochh liyaa yograj ji se,

agar kisi aur ko bhi pataa ho to spasht kar saktaa hai. Hamain to jaanne

se matlab hai.

With Regards

Pt.Lalkitabee

V.Shukla

, " kulbirbance "

<kulbirbance wrote:

>

> Shukla ji maharaj;

>

> kya aapko varshphal ka base; rashi number ke

> hisab se bolne wale grah ka basis aur application sab samajh aa

> gaye; in sab ki farisat me hi makkan kundali aati hai, kya aapke

> pass koi logic hai ki pt ji ne makkan kundali kis base par banaiye.

> jab iska base hi nahin pata to kyon ukhli me sar de rahe ho.

> maf karna bhasha ki tone ki aazadi aapne hi di hai.

>

> sincerely

>

> kulbirbance

>

, " lalkitabee "

> lalkitabee@ wrote:

> >

> > bhai Yograj ji

> >

> > Kyaa karoon jis lehzey main lalkitab likhi hai usi lehzey ka put

> > AAYA HUA READ KARTEY KARTEY. kYAA KAROON teacher hoon na bus

> isiliye

> > sabak denaa nahi bhooltaa.khud ko kabhi gyaani nahi maana ,lekin

> > parmatma se yahi maanga ki kabhi bhi mithya gyan par garvit hone

> > walon ke aage sheeesh na jhukne denaa.

> > Itne anajaan bhi na bano ki qaida aur qaayda ka fark bhi

> > bhool jaao.aapki nirmal buddhi ke mutabik agar hamaarey is varun-

> > kosh ka koi bhi prayaaas saarthak hai to kripyaa discussions ko hee

> > continue karne ka kasht karain.aapse yah group bus yahi apeksha

> > rakhtaa hai, Shayd yahi hum sabki niyati aur prayashchit bhi hai.

> > Kripyaa aap mere poochhey gaye sawaaal ko nazar anadaaz

> mat

> > kariyegaa.Even if i will find something new regarding this i will

> > share boldly.Ho sakey to is topic ko thodaa samay do ,chahey kitne

> > hee busy kyon na hon.Main aapko hee address kartaa hoon , kyonki

> > mujhe pataa hai ki kahaan kyaa bolnaa hai,aur kaun ismain sehyog

> kar

> > saktaa hai, varnaa to " bhains ke aagey been bajaaye bhains khadi

> > paguraaye "

> > Meri bhasha par comment mat karnaa, main jaisa hoon hajir hoon

> > aur meri bhashaa hindi ke lihaaz se ek ENRICHED bhasha hai.

> > Ho sakey to dobaara iltaza hai ki discussion ko guidence dain.

> >

> > With regards

> >

> > Pt.Lalkitabee

> >

> > , Yograj Prabhakar

> > <yr_prabhakar@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Vipin Bhai

> > >

> > > You must be remembering that about two weeks ago you called me

> in

> > connection with an going debate in another group, and suggested me

> > something. I followed your advise word by word, remember? The same

> > love and respect for you is the theme of my following lines, hope

> > you will not take it otherwise.

> > >

> > > Vipin Bhai, I have done nothing, making all the five editions

> > available to every Lal Kitab devotee free of charge was only my

> > Idea, It was a common dream. Apart from others, you and Kulbir also

> > supported me morally in this endevour, so credit of this work goes

> > to you too.

> > >

> > > Pundit jee maharaj, chhoti chhoti baton par dhyan dena aur halki

> > bhasha (Arey, dekho, suno, kholo etc.) ka istehmal karna chhodiye,

> > yeh apki Garima ke qatayee anuroop nahi hai. Hamarey paas samay

> > bahut thoda hai aur kaam bahut zyada. Koyi kya kehta hai kya sochta

> > hai - is par waqt zaya karney se kya haasil hoga? Kisi ko pundit ji

> > akar kya batatey hain, ya pt. ji ki rooh se kisi ka direct

> sattelite

> > link hai - to huya karey? Apko ya kisi aur ko is se kya farak pad

> > gaya? Aaj kal koyi bhi itna moorkh nahee hai jo kisi ki bhi baat

> par

> > aankh moond kar vishwas kar ley. Isliye hamari nazar Macchhlee ki

> > aank par kendrit honi chahiye, na ki idahar udhar.

> > >

> > > Rahi baat Qayda-vs-Research oriented granth kee toh mere bhai,

> > meri nacheez samajh ke mutabiq toh har granth ek Qaydey hi ki tarah

> > Nishkapat, saada aur nirmal huya karta hai. Granthiyaan granthon

> > mein nahee padhney samajhney wale ke dil-o-deemagh mein huya karti

> > hain. Ap toh khud ek school master bhi ho aur shastar ke gyata bhi,

> > to apse zyada yeh baat bhala aur kisey maloom hogi? Khair, abhi ap

> > jawan ho thodey kamsin ho, waqt ke sath samajh jayogey. Hum sabhi

> > log abhi " liquid form " mein hain, abhi toh hum sab log pre-nursrey

> > ke vidyarthi hain aur is granth ki alif-bey hi seekh rahe hain, ye

> > bhi seekh payengey ya nahi - maloom nahi.

> > >

> > > I will comment in due course to the question you have forwarded

> to

> > me after studying the point carefully.

> > >

> > > Respectfully

> > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > >

> > > lalkitabee <lalkitabee@> wrote:

> > > Bhai Yograj ji

> > > aapka lalkitab ke original 5 version bina kisi swarth ke logo

> > main baantnaa samaaj ke liye ek aisa yogdaan hai jise ki aane

> wale

> > samay main kabhi bhi nahi bhulaayaa ja saktaa. Aapne ise is roop

> > main jis tarah se surakshitv kiyaa hai, vah appki udaartaa ka

> > parichayak hai.It is a great work of great soul like u.

> > > Lekin Yograj ji, in 5 books ke baad aglaa daur jo ab shuru

> > hua hai iski kalpana kuchh logon ke man main aaj se 3 varsh pehley

> > hee thi aur uske liye kuchh prayaas kiye gaye, jinhain kuchh logon

> > ne Urdu vs Hindi/Dalda ka khitaab dekar darkinaar kar diyaa aur

> khud

> > ko is tarah se expose kiyaa ki shayad pujyaa pandit ji ki Rooh

> > unhain lalkitab samjhaa kar jaa rarahi hai aur unki baat ko hooob-

> > hoo maan liyaa jaye. Lalkitab ki lines main ooper neechey ,aage

> > peechey ghumaakar ve log kyaa sabit karnaa chahtey they samajh nahi

> > aayaa, aaj aap khud ko hee dekho aap to urdu bahut badhia jaantey

> > hain fir bhi galati to ho hi jaati hai, arre bhai insaan galatiyon

> > ka putlaa hai,Jaise aap galati kar saktey hain aur bhi kar saktey

> > hain, aaj groups main hum sabhi isliye ikatthey hotey hain taaki

> hum

> > log galatiyon aur bhrantoyon se alag hatkar gyaan ek doosrey ke

> > jariye prapt kar sakain.

> > > Chalo chhodo in baaton ko aur jaraa Original Lalkitab

> > 1952 ke page no. 206 par " GRAH KUNDALI KI MAKAAN KE HISAB SE

> DURUSTI

> > par nazar daalo,likhaa hai ki ---KUNDALI KE KHANA NO. 1 SE CHALKAR

> > AGAR NAUVAIN KO JAYAIN YA MAKAAN SE BAAHAR KO NIKALAIN TO JIS

> TARAF -

> > DAYAAN (right) HAATH HOGAA- US TARAF MAKAAN KE TAMAAM GRAH JO KHANA

> > NO. 1 SE 8 TAK HO APNA SABOOT DENGEY, ISI TARAH AGAR 12 NO. KHAANE

> > SE APNE AAPKO KHANA NO. 9 KI TARAF AATEY HUVE GINE YA MAKAAN MAIN

> > BAAHAR SE AAKAR DAAKHIL HONE LAGAIN TO KHANA NO. 12 SE 12, 11 10

> KE

> > GHARON KE GRAH --DAAYEN (right) TARAF MAKAAN KE --SABOOT DENGEY.

> > > Kyaa aisa nahi lag rahaa hai ki yahaan par bhi kuchh

> > contradiction hai. Dono hee tarah makan ke daayeen taraf saboot.

> > Mujhe lagtaa hai ki yahaan par bhi lalkitab main shayd misprint hai

> > ya galati ki gunjaish hai. Aapkaa kyaa vichaar hai? Kyon na hum aur

> > baaton par jor dene ki bajaay is muddey par discussion ko continue

> > karain. Agar meraa shak jayaj hai to is par gaur kiyaa jaaaye, agar

> > najayaz hai to uskaa khulaasa karne ki taqleef karain. Rahee baat

> > shikve shikayat ki-- to yograaj ji vo to chaltey hee rahengey,

> Koyee

> > gyaan lene ke liye group main aayaa ,koyee dene ke liye, koyee

> paise

> > batorne to koyee chele ikatthey karney main bhi interested ho

> > saktaaa hai. In sab baaton ka koyee tharmameter to hai nahi . Who

> is

> > queen & who is maid , it shudnt be motive all of us.Kyon group main

> > shikvey shikayat par jor de rahey ho.Aur apni taraf se main ek baat

> > saaf karnaa chahtaa hoon ki maine Aaina dikhane ki baat un logo ke

> > liye likhi thi jo ,lalkitab ke babat poochhey gaye sawaal

> > > ke jawab main bola kartey they ki ---PROFESSIONALS LE UDENGEY -

> > isliye bolnaa thik nahi. aaj is group main ek ek baat kee tafseel

> > dene ki koshish ki ja rahee hai, aur to aur lalkitab ki mool pustak

> > ki bhi galatiyaan pakdi jaa rahee hain aur professionals bhi

> khulkar

> > bol rahey hain jahaan tak unhain pataa hai. To ve log aaj kis gufaa

> > main jaakar baith gaye hain. Sahee maayno main to shayad aaj is

> > group ke yogdaan se ve bhi seekh rahey hongey ki lalkitab ko kaise

> > padhaa jaye. QAIYDEY KI TARAH YA EK RESEARCH ORIENTED GRANTH KI

> > TARAH. agar meri baat theek nahi to un logon ko yahaan par shirkat

> > jaroor karni chahiye.

> > > Mere red words ki baabat discussion ko roop dene ka kash

> > karain.

> > > Pt.lalkitabee

> > > V.Shukla

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Maharaj;

> > > >

> > > > i didn't take anyone's name; how did u reach the conclusion

> that

> > it

> > > > is aimed at you. to be very frank i had bhatia ji in mind.

> > nowhere did u cut

> > > > my viewpoint; it was all started by bhatia ji when i asked him

> > about his

> > > > foot note and it's authenticity. i am sorry i have to go

> > personal on record

> > > > but just check; he comes in various forums; tries to be a

> > bhisham pitama but

> > > > gets lost whenever any logical thing is to be discussed. you

> > know i have

> > > > proof of many other things about participation but don't want

> to

> > derail the

> > > > process of ongoing discussions by starting a new controversy;

> > > > would you please be kind enough to let me know as to where did

> > my mail point

> > > > towards you or in which manner did u interpret it.

> > > > baundale hoe bande nu jhunda te paya kapda wi bhoot pret hi

> > lagda so just

> > > > have a deep breath and reanalyse.

> > > >

> > > > kulbirbains.

> > > >

> > > > On 3/31/08, Yograj Prabhakar yr_prabhakar@ wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Varun jee

> > > > >

> > > > > The tragedy is not only what you have mentioned. Another

> great

> > tragedy is

> > > > > that whoever found a " Sonth Kee Ganth " starts thinking

> himself

> > a

> > > > > " Pansaaree " , unfortunately we all are suffering from this

> > fatal disease.

> > > > >

> > > > > There are two kinds of people in Lal Kitab, " Dil Waley "

> > and " Deemagh Wale "

> > > > > Dil waley has more Josh than Hosh whereas Deemagh Waley has

> > more Hosh but

> > > > > less Josh. Both are actually complimentary to each other. A

> > perfect blend of

> > > > > Josh and Hosh is a must to achieve anything. Dil Walon ne toh

> > Pundit jee ke

> > > > > 5 Anmol Rattan bataur Prashad dunia bhar ko baant kar apne

> sir

> > se Kitab ka

> > > > > Rinn Utaar diya hai. Ab iski Roshni ko duniya bhar mein

> > phailaney ki

> > > > > zimmewaree " Deemagh Walon " ki bhi hai. Agar aaj Ek Ek lafz

> aur

> > Ek Ek logic

> > > > > par agar debate

> > > > > ho rahi hai to yaqeen karna, is baat kee khushi mujh se zyada

> > shayad hi

> > > > > kisi aur ko hogi. It is not necessary that we agree with each

> > other on every

> > > > > point. Every individual has his own way of seeing the things,

> > we must not

> > > > > raise question mark on that. Fot some Lal Kitab is

> > just " another book " of

> > > > > astrology, for many it is sacrosanct or divine scripture,

> > whats wrong with

> > > > > that? How a person looks at a filled bottle is depends upon

> > his own

> > > > > judgment and capacity, why one should try to impose his

> > thoughts over

> > > > > anyone? We cannot even force our thoughts on our own kids, so

> > how we can

> > > > > expect others to follow our dictates?

> > > > >

> > > > > I do not know about the others but, for me knowing about how

> > Pundit jee

> > > > > use to talk, walk, sit, wear, behave, looks and even abuse is

> > of no less

> > > > > significance, if someone has any objection - I do not care.

> > And what is

> > > > > wrong in it if someone produce some point (like in the case

> of

> > Bejod

> > > > > Chhalla) in reference to the words of veterans? A few days

> > back a remedy of

> > > > > keeping Sponge was discussed in the forum, it is nowhere

> > written in the book

> > > > > as for how many days this sponge is supposed to be kept in

> > case of Varshphal

> > > > > and what to do with this afterwards. I prefer not to speak

> > about that as I

> > > > > knew that a demand of " Forensic analysis " will arise if I

> > forward my views

> > > > > since the same was conveyed by a non-professional " VayoVridh "

> > Lal kitab

> > > > > premi.

> > > > >

> > > > > As far as running from the participation is concerned, I

> would

> > like to

> > > > > assure you that Peeth Dikha Kar Bhag jaana meri fitrat nahi

> > hai. Browse the

> > > > > achieve, and see how many mails with Colorful Headings were

> > directed to me.

> > > > > But I always took it as a compliment. Even the gauche way to

> > degrade never

> > > > > bothered me. I continued to participate in the debates with

> my

> > little or no

> > > > > knowledge. But I hate to poke my nose in controversial issues

> > and the issues

> > > > > I am not sure

> > > > > about. If that is called a weakness - I accept it gleefully.

> > > > >

> > > > > I also read starements about " showing the mirror "

> > and " Nishkasit kar diya

> > > > > tha " etc. I always treat you as the shadow of Prof. Upadhyaye

> > jee who taught

> > > > > me the great lesson of " Forgive and Forget " , so I was a

> little

> > surprised

> > > > > (but not at all shocked) with this retaliatory attitude. Now

> > you will agree

> > > > > with me that all chickens look gray in the dark.

> > > > >

> > > > > Kulbir jee, whos Lal Kitab business will suffer? Who is

> afraid

> > of

> > > > > Shudhi-Karan? Whos Chele Chapte will ran away? To whom you

> are

> > refering? I

> > > > > am like a " Nanga Putt Choran Vich Khedey " , " Na aqal naa

> maut " -

> > so have

> > > > > nothing to loose. Neither astrology is my bread & butter nor

> I

> > have any

> > > > > Chela-Chapta. But yes, like you, I too have great faith in

> > this divine

> > > > > scripture and no one can ever deprived me of that.

> > > > >

> > > > > Respectfully

> > > > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > > > >

> > > > > *kulbir bance kulbirbance@* wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Gurudev; remember the last line of this book is MADAD MALIK

> > APNI DEGA,

> > > > > NEKI KHUD KARTE RAHO.

> > > > > baki KUCH TO MAJBURIYAN RAHIN HONGI; YOUNH HI KOI BEWAFA

> NAHIN

> > HOTA,

> > > > > pehli majboori; logon ko yeh shaq paida na ho jai ki mujhe

> > lalkitab ki

> > > > > samajh nahin.

> > > > > second; why to comment i.e. accept, deny or improve upon a

> > point which we

> > > > > ourselves couldn't point out. bhai hamse badhkar kaun;

> > > > > please try to understand their difficulty they have

> > apprehensions

> > > > > 1. their lalkitab commerce will suffer.

> > > > > 2. it is difficult to acept that one has been associated with

> > this book

> > > > > for years; but all gone waste; all of sudden comes a bolt

> that

> > his approach

> > > > > was wrong; how to undo that. its hard to accept unless

> > antarman ka

> > > > > shudikaran ho gaya jai.

> > > > > 3. thier goodwill and chele chapte/ following will run away.

> > > > > so it is convenient to turn a blind eye.

> > > > > jab pt ji ne shuru me hi likh diya DUNIYAVI HISAB KITAB HAI ,

> > KOI

> > > > > DAWA-E-KHUDAI NAHIN. then what's wrong in reviewing and

> > discussing. rome was

> > > > > not built in a day, we all can become masters but patience

> and

> > integrity is

> > > > > a vital ingredient.

> > > > > sincerely

> > > > > kulbirbance

> > > > >

> > > > > On 3/29/08, varun_trvd varun_trvd@ wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Respected members,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This is the tragedy; raise a fundamental astrological issue

> > and all

> > > > > > those who claim to have studied the Lal Kitab for decades

> go

> > silent.

> > > > > > If I had raised a peripheral question there would have been

> > at least

> > > > > > half a dozen people participating in an agitated debate.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Go to the archives and you will find long debates on issues

> > like

> > > > > > whether the steel ring should be open at the ends or

> closed,

> > or

> > > > > > whether keeping a square piece of silver for Saturn is just

> > to find

> > > > > > out the nature of the Saturn or it is also a part of the

> > upaya and

> > > > > > so on.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Or talk about any myth or a legend about the book, and you

> > find

> > > > > > every body ready with a myth of their own. Every body

> > claiming to be

> > > > > > very close to Pandit ji; they would go at great lengths to

> > describe

> > > > > > what he wore, how he walked, how the spirits dictated the

> > book to

> > > > > > him and so on. But when it comes to breaking some

> > astrological

> > > > > > misconceptions surrounding this book, none of them is to be

> > seen.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On this current issue under discussion except for Kulbir ji

> > and

> > > > > > Raheja ji, no body has come out with any comments either

> way.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It is this apathy to discuss the Lal Kitab and its contents

> > purely

> > > > > > with an astrological perspective, which has lead other

> > astrologers

> > > > > > to be vary of it. No wonder that they consider this book as

> > a book

> > > > > > of Tona-Totkas and the Lal Kitab astrologers as semi-

> > literate small

> > > > > > time village pundits. I do not blame others for this

> > misconception.

> > > > > > We are at fault. It is our own apathy responsible for it

> > because we

> > > > > > lack confidence to argue out issues on their astrological

> > merits.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Well, doesn't matter; our effort is to get the rightful

> > place this

> > > > > > book deserves in the world of Indian Astrology.

> > Participation or no

> > > > > > participation we will continue with our effort.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ------------------------------

> > > > > Never miss a thing. Make your

> >

> homepage.<http://us.rd./evt=51438/*http://www./r/hs

> > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of

> > Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.

> > >

> >

>

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Lal Kitab and its tragedy / Yograj ji

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