LK discussion group 1941 Gutka contradiction : Tentative solution

[Guest guest]

how mich unwillingly there is no choice to accept this Tentative suggestion / solution. since no rebutal has come it is very much true that original manuscript too has mistakes/misprints.

it's a human error; pt ji nor his associates or katib shri atama ram sharama or publisher shri girdhari lal- none of them claimed to be demigods. with our mythology where even our devtas committed errors. what's the harm to accept it.

it is not blasphemy but true service. the powers associated with this book will bless you.

you may call it my superstition but i congratulate you that they chose you to bring this revelations.

even otherwise fact is a fact. didn't the church accept that the earth is not flat nor pivotal point of universe.

are we more rigid then them.

it is duty of every sincer student of lalkitab to comment upon such a big issue; if not accepting at least they should say that they shall research and then send in their conclusion. but to remain silent is a crime.

thakur ji has read all 5 volumes and found answers to all the questions. at least i am awaiting his response.

varun ji one of my teachers told me that if by remaining silent, others will think you are a fool, it is better not to prove them right by opening your tounge. bolan nalo chup changeri chup de naalon parda. How's that? agree or not?

sincerely

kulbirbance

On 3/29/08, varun_trvd <varun_trvd wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Respected members,

 

I had pointed out a contradiction in the original Urdu edition of 1941 gutka. The matter had been on the board for a couple of days. Kulbir bhai and Girish Raheja ji had made a few suggestions. We at Aligarh too had given a very serious thought to this contradiction.

 

Summarizing the situation:

 

[ 1 ] Saturn + Venus combination any where in a Janma Kundali can not be aspected by the Sun. It is not astronomically possible. Therefore this situation can never arise in a Janma Kundali.

 

[ 2 ] This is possible only in a Varsh Phal kundali. Since the results enumerated for the above mentioned planetary placement are life time results, they can not be delineated from a Varsh Phal kundali. Therefore the planetary placement is meant for a Janma Kundali and not for one year duration Varsh Phal kundali.

 

[ 3 ] This planetary placement can also occur in a Janma Kundali cast on the basis of the palm prints. What if the analysis based on the kundali through the palm prints doesn’t agree with the Janma Kundali cast through the birth data ? In that case our view is that the credence be given to the analysis based on the Janma kundali cast through the birth data. Thus a kundali cast through the palm prints becomes a secondary source more in the nature of a verification tool instead of being the primary tool.

 

The contradiction is not confined to the 1941 gutka alone. The contradiction is further carried forward into the 1942 edition and the 1952 edition also.

 

Here are the details of this contradiction carried through the Lal Kitab :

 

 

1941 Gutka :

 

Page 283 lines 1-2

 

Dono ko sooraj dekhe : sanichar ka purjor bura asar, maut purdard hogi

 

Page 283/4 lines 13-15+

 

Khana 4 :

 

Dono # 4 aur suraj #10 : nihayat purdard maut hove, nihayat kareebi ristedar karobar mein shamil hokar ya vaise hi uska dhan kha pee jayenge.

 

Page 284 lines 9-12

 

Dono # 10 aur sooraj # 4 : sanichar ka bura asar na hoga balki jaydad banegi . maut bhi purdard na hogi, balki lambi umra hogi, naqad rupia paisa beshak kam hi hove.

 

 

1942 edition :

 

Page 295 lines 19-20

 

Dono mushtarqa ko sooraj dekhe : shanishchar ka bura asar nihayat zor se hoga, maut purdard hogi.

 

295/6

Line 26

 

Khana # 4

dono 4 suraj 10 } nihayat purdard aur sakht maut hogi

 

Page 296 : lines 14-15

 

Dono # 10 sooraj 4 } : Shanishchar ka bura asar na hoga, balki jaydad banegi, maut bhi purdard na hogi , balki lambi umra hogi, naqad rupia beshak kam hi hove.

 

 

1952 edition :

 

Page 865 : lines 11 †" 13

 

Khana # 10

 

Umra lambi hogi, jaydad banegi, aur maut bhi koi dukhiya halat mein na hogi, naqad rupia beshak itana jyada na ho --- suraj khana # 4

 

Page 866 line # 8-10

 

Mandi halat :

 

Shanishchar ka bura asar bahut zor se hoga, maut purdard hogi. --- } dono ko suraj dekhe

 

Tentative suggestion from the Aligarh group:

 

This is just a suggestion and not a verdict and that too is tentative which will hold good till some other Lal Kitab scholar comes up with a better alternative. The two step solution is :

 

[ A ] The blanket statement contained in line 1 & 2 on page 283 of 1941 Gutka :[ Dono ko sooraj dekhe : sanichar ka pujor bura asar, maut purdard hogi.] be dropped or deleted altogether not only from the 1941 gutka but from the subsequent editions also.

 

[ B ] Since this planetary placement is not possible in a Janma kundali unless the Sun is removed from the combination.

 

Therefore the Sun and the Mercury can not be a part of this combination. Mercury, for astronomical reasons, also can not be in a position to aspect or be aspected by Venus + Saturn combination. Therefore both the Sun and the Mercury get eliminated.

 

Of the remaining three planets viz. Moon, Mars and Jupiter, to our mind Moon could best fit into the combination.

 

After the blanket statement of line 1 & 2 page 283 of 1941 gutka is dropped, and if the Moon is substituted for the Sun, the equation would then read :

 

Dono # 4 aur chander #10 : nihayat purdard maut hove, nihayat kareebi ristedar karobar mein shamil hokar ya vaise hi uska dhan kha pee jayenge.

 

This is possible because Saturn and Venus placed in the 4th house will be on a hostile territory and the Moon in the 10 will not only be on a hostile territory but it will also be under the aspect of two hostile planets.

 

Dono # 10 aur Chander # 4 : sanichar ka bura asar na hoga balki jaydad banegi . maut bhi purdard na hogi, balki lambi umra hogi, naqad rupia paisa beshak kam hi hove.

 

In this case the Venus and the Saturn will be on their home ground and so will be the Moon. The aspect of the moon on the Venus and the Saturn could not be cruel such that it could cause purdard maut.

 

Other scholars are welcome to suggest better fully justified alternative:

 

Regards,

 

Varun Trivedi