About Shani : ,Thakur ji

[Guest guest]

(Plz read my whole mail as a reference for understanding my views,do not take its any part seperatly or independently )

Respected Bhai Thakur JiJo baat aap mujhse pooch rahey hain dar-asal vo aapko Kalsi ji se poochni chahiye.Main aapki baat se poori tarah

sehmat hoon. Kalsi ji hee likh rahey hain ki - shani khana no.4 main kisi bhi halat main bura nahi hogaa balki shani ki

ashiyaa jaise sharaab ka istemaal faydemand hoga,jabki mera kehnaa hai ki shani kharab ho sakta hai aur shani ki ashiya

ke taur par sharab ka istemaal bataur DAVAA hee faydemand hoga varnaa nuksaan-de hoga.Yah baat lalkitab main likhi

hai.Main sharab ke Davaa aur DAARU ke farq par jor de rahaa hoon jyotish ke hisab se. Vaise bhi meraa disscusion to shani ke oonch ketu swabhav ke nazariye se hee hai.Aapko to pata hee

hogaa ki Lalkitab main saaf saaf likha hai ki Shani ke Rahu aur ketu agent hain aur shani inke ishare par chalta hai ,shani

aurat(Shukkar) par bhi poori nazar rakhtaa hai aur kamaal hai ki aurat (Shukkar) main rahu aur ketu ka hee zuzb

hai.Lalkitab ke mutabik jab bhi shani par gaaz girti hai to yah Rahu ketu ki marfat aurat(Shukkar) ko marvaa dalataa

hai,Afsos Bechari aurat to bant gayee in Rahu ketu naam ke do agents main,jo ki uske vazood main they ab ve hee

uska vuzood khatam karne ka hukam-nama lekar chal padtey hain ,aurat (Shukkar) ko kaatain ya baatain unke haath

main hai.Ab dekhne wali baat hai ki "shani nesh se ganesh hove"Magar kaise ? sanichchar jo ki khud ketu swabhav ka

ho sakta hai vah ketu bhi to do tarah ka hai-- Oonch ketu aur Neech ketu" jab vah Ganesh hogaa to oonch ketu ke

swabhav ka hoga,jab oonch ketu ki baat saaf ho gayee to neech ketu ka khyal bhi saabit ho gaya,rahu bhi juda na reh

saka kyonki sanichchar rahu swabhav ka bhi ho sakta hai.Aur yah rahu bhi domunha hai, 4-4 masnuyee hain iske.Afsos

to yah aurat (shukkar) ka vuzood shani rahu ketu se banaa hua hai aur ketu ke oonch hone aur shani ke nek hone tak ke

safar main shukkar ka aham roll bhi hai, bavzood iske sehraa shani ke sir bandhtaa hai aur naam ketu (OOnc)ka hota

hai.Kul milakar Rahu ketu ki baat chalegi to shukkar to khud hee jud gaya. Rahu ketu agar bad huve to shukkar barbaad

hua hee hua, aur nek huve to shukkar nek hoga ,ya fir shani ko nek rakhne ke liye ketu ko oonch karne ki shart poori

kartey huve shukkar ko hee to durust karne ki jaroorat hogi,kyonki shani to shukkar par nazar rakhegaa hee aur agar shani ka talluq tarah se shukkar se ho jaaye to oonch ketu ka masnuyee bhi hai . shani ko rahu ketu dono agent chala rahey

hain agar koyee bhi kharaab hua to shukkar kharab ho jayegaa.Shayad yahi karan hai ki kayee martabaa dekhne main

aata hai ki ghar ki kulvanti ki kadar nahi hoti aur insaan ayyashi main dooba rehtaa hai aur sabhi duniyaavi sukh uske

kadamon main hote hain.Shayad oonch ketu ki marfat shani nek ki haisiyat ka sabit to ho gaya lekin agar rahu mande ki

nishaniyaa aa gayee to shukkar main kharaabi ho gayee.Shukkar ka ek hissa jo ki nek tha kulvanti naar banaa aur

doosraa jo ki kharab tha usne auraton ki kabootarbazi shuru karvaa dee.Aise main insaan sab kuchh bhool

baitha.Aasmaan se gira jameen par lekin nateeza to abhi bhi Rahu ketu main hee hogaa akhiri hukum to shani ka ve hee

poora karengey,auarat (Shukkar) to maregi maregi, lekin kaun see?yah sawal abhi bhi khadaa hai. ((Yahaan par meraa matlab insaani zazbaat main baithi gandi vaasnaa aur ghar main sakshaat shukkar = wife se hai)

Ab agar rahu ketu ko shubh kar liyaa gaya to hukumnama shukkar ke kharaab hisse par padegaa agar rahu ketu main se koyee bhi ashubh rahaa kisi bhi karan se, chahey vah grahon ki haisiyat ho ya fir jaltey huve lamps ko dhak lene wala karmo ka kapda

(Cloth or curton) ho to ghar ki kulvanti par asar padegaa. Thakur Ji gaur se dekhengey to aapko lalkitab main saaf ho jayegaa ki shukkar ek taraf to shani main hee

brhaspat ke saath hoga,doosri taraf yah rahu ketu main bantaa huaa hai aur teesri taraf iskaa ek khud ka vuzood hai jise

hum shukkar kehtey hain.Aise main agar shani "nesh se Ganesh hove" yah kahaa gayaa to oonch ketu ka shukkar aur

shani= ketu swabhav ka shukkar wala hissa to shani se kisi bhi tarah alag nahi gine ja saktey.Shayad yahi karan hai ki

shani ki baat chaltey hee Pandit ji ne shukkar ko kisi bhi tarah mandaa hone se rokne ki salaah likhi hai.Saath hee

agar khud shukkar ki kharaabiyaan jahir hon to rahu ketu main se kharaab hisse ka upay karne ko bolaa hai. Bus yahi

baat main kehnaa chahtaaa hoon ki agar shani nesh se ganesh hove to binaa shukkar ke talluq ke ho hee nahi saktaa.

Note: (Aap jab meraa yah letter padh rahey hon to meharbaani karke masnuyee wala panna khol kar baith jayain aur uske

mutabik mere likhey par gaur karaian. Shayd aap kuchh naya vichaar prastut kar dalain.

With reagrds

Pt.Lalkitabee , "Iqbal Chand Thakur" <thakur.iqbalchand wrote:>> Bhai Kitabee Ji,> wallah,> Kya lalkitaab mein likha hai ki Jis grah ko bura kar liya jaaye Weh> achha nateeza de gaa. Aapka Baar baar kahana ke Agar Shani nek ho> tabhi achha nateeza dega kuchh azeeb saa laga. Kaya koyi aisa grah> bhee hai jis ko kharaab karliya jaaye aur veh achha nateezaa dega.> Bhai lalkitab mein jahan kahin bhee yeh likha hai kee falaan grah> achha yaa falaan grah nek nateeza dega us kaa matlab hee yehi hota hai> kee voh grah jab tak nek rakha jaavay tabhi taq.> Bhai Ghar kee chhat tabhi taak leak nahin karegi jab taq us ko theek> aur darust rakha jaaye, Agar us mein keel thok kar chhed karogay to> paani to chovega hee> chaahe kitna pakka lenter ho.> Baaqi jo Yeh itni badi discussion huyi hai "Nesh se Ganesh Ki" aap> sabhi ke liye main us ko neechay likh raha hoon:-> " Sanichar syah rang kaa saanp,Maut ka yam Khud Uday -doosron kop udaavey.> Ichhiyadhaari> to sabh ko taarey-kaala rang sab per chadhay, magar> kaalay rang per koyi naa chadhey,nesh (Dang) se ganesh hovey, machhli> ke anday, magar machh kaa pet, qabeela badhey.> Ulat> To marey."> Abb aagey aap wali baat hai> Nek ho to Ichhiyadhari aur ulat ho to sabh kucch ujaadey.> Charcha jaari rakhen. Nateeza jaroor niklega> > aapka> > Iqbal Chand Thakur> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/4/08, lalkitabee lalkitabee wrote:> >> > *Respected Kalsi Ji*> >> > *U r adopting the style ,by which only lines of lalkitab r aquiring web> > space till present. Though I wil try to make my vision to graspable within> > lalkitab. My views r with the heading of Lalkitabee Uvaach :- in> > highlited portion of combined mail of Tyagi Ji & u. Plz read as below:-*> >> > *With Regards*> >> > *Pt.Lalkitabee V.Shukla *> > *> > -------> > Dear kalsi ji,> >> > I have answered your comments on my observations within brackets in bold> > blue letters.> >> > I hope Pt. lalkitabee ji will also answer your comments on his> > observations.> >> > Sincerely,> >> > Cahndra Prakash> >> > Respected Shukla Ji & Tyagi Ji,> > thanks for for answering my queries.> > My qerries are in Bold, Tyagi ji Views & yours Endorsement in normal text> > and only yours View in Italic Blue."> > I try to put my point view in these factors: Mine is in red> >> > Sh.Tyagi's View> > I have tried to answer your questions in the same order you had> > posed them.> > I am carrying the debate forward, and if Pt. Lalkitabee ji so wishes> > he can also join in later, may be to add to what I have said.> >> > Here are the answers to your queries> > *> >> > *1. In Khana No. 4 it is written that if native has Faaliz or having> > disease the items of saturn will help him.*> > [ 1 ] Yes, only if the Saturn is Nek.> > *Does not matter in case of Saturn in House no 4, Please refer page 210> > line 7 of 1942.*> >> > *[ It is not said in line # 7. It is said in line #10-11 " uska jism> > nakara hone ke waqt shani ki cheezon se sehat hogi". The book further> > warns that such a person should not get involved in `Kabootarbazee of> > women". *> >> > *The 1952 ed adds a few more conditions " sanp ka tel bechne se lavaldi ka> > sabot milega khwa aulad ke yog lakh uttam hon, isi trah hi> > sharabnoshi,sanpon ke marvane, rat ke waqt makanon ki buniyad rakhne ki> > wajah se shani nakara kar liya jaya'. Which means that the Saturn should not> > be made into a malefic then only the Saturn will help. It was in this> > context I had said that the Saturn will help so long it is benefic.> > Therefore it matters whether the Saturn is Nek or Bud ]*> >> > *Lalkitabee** Uvaach** :-** Agar shani is khana main sirf nek tabiyat ka> > hee hota to "**Ab shani bura na hogaa."** is line ke baad Pandit Ji> > kuchh bhi nahi likhtey. lekin unhone uske kharaab hone> > ke kaaran bhi ginaaye hain ** *> >> >> > *2. Saturn is also described here as Khooni mallah. which destroy mamoo> > khandaan and Jaddi jaydaad.*> > [ 2 ] No. This is not the result of the Saturn in the 4th per> > se,this will be the result only if the moon is also in the 10th.> > *Yes, it is due to saturn presence in 4th and also due to moon effect for> > being in 10th. *> > *3. Shani Kisi bhee halat mein tevay waalay kaa bura nahin karega **> > in my view this is the house where saturn has the quality where he help> > the native in distress/disease even his bite can help the faliz patient to> > stand and run. Let us apply the rules in saturn 4 illustrated in your reply.> > Saturn being in 4th is having the realtionship with Moon. as per the above> > lines in red it become Neech Masnoyi ketu. Saturn has the deep enimity with> > Sun and ketu halves the sun . Now the point came in mind*> > [ 3 ] Yes, only if the Saturn is Nek. Therefore to say that ` shani> > kisi bhi halat mein bura nahi karega ` is wrong.> > *Please read my answer to point 1or refer page 210** line 7 of 1942.*> >> >> >> > *[ My objection was to your statement " kisi bhi halat mein" which means> > under all circumstances. The conditions I have mentioned above make the> > role of Shani in the 4th subject to certain conditions, therefore it is> > not correct to say ` kisi bhi halat mein' ]*> >> > * **Lalkitabee** Uvaach** :- Nothing to say –even a primary student also> > can understand this sentence .> > .** *> >> >> > I hope you understand the difference of being with or in the> > companionship of as against being related through a placement.> > Simply because the Saturn is in the 4th house, it can not be taken> > to mean that it is WITH the Moon. A masnuyee exalted Ketu can not be> > formed unless the Saturn and the Moon are physically together.> > Masnuyee planet is not formed merely by a planet being placed in a> > house.> > *As per the properties of houses the effect of owner always be there in> > his pakka house.*.> >> >> >> > *[ But that effect does not get transformed into a masnuyee planet ]*> >> > * **Lalkitabee** Uvaach** :- I agree with Tyagi ji & adding more> > that---Masnuyee haalat main do grahon ke talluq ke saath saath hamain yah> > nazariya bhi nahi bhoolnaa chahiye ki har grah ke do zuzb hote hain> > .> > ** *> >> >> > *4. How Neech ketu or saturn help his deep enemy Sun in distress .*> > [ 4 ] The masnuyee debilitated ketu is not formed, therefore the> > premise you have made is in fructuous.> > *I think each & every part is crystal clear with the efforts of Mr. Tyagi> > . Have u included Sun incidently in point no. 3 & 4 in ur mail ? Plz correct> > my understanding.> > **your views to my querry (How saturn help his deep enemy Sun in distress> > ) are left inadvertantly.. No I have not included Sun incidentaly in my> > mail. *> >> > *Lalkitabee** Uvaach** :- u r misleading here this discussion, All> > discussion is around the shani = ketu masnuyee (shani+chandar or shani> > + shukkar). where u saw sun in these combinations.So keep the track,> > otherwise u shud explain correlation of sun in this context 1st of> > all . .** *> >> >> >> > *5. Saturn & Moon is not a good combination. Sat+Moon in 4 ( it may be> > wrong) may cause Purdard Maut. is it not conflicting with the above.*> > [ 5 ] This could be true only if the natal Moon is also placed> > along with the Saturn in the 4th house.> > yes, you repeated what i have written.> >> >> > *6. Venus is no where realted to the khana 4 hence making of good shani or> > uccha ketu is ruled out. Is the theory of involvement of venus here is> > right.*> > [ 6 ] Pt. Lalkitabee ji never said that Venus is associated with> > 4th house.> > And also never forget that Saturn can be Nek as such without the> > help of any other planet. Therefore your presumption that Saturn> > will act beneficially only if it is helped by venus is misplaced.> > *It is not my point of view, it is the view of one of our friend in> > earlier mails and Shukla ji also refered towards it.*> >> > *Lalkitabee** Uvaach** :-** Main Ratoon Raam Raam, Tum suno Maraa Maraa.> >> >> > *> >> > *Shukla Ji never refered shukra ,he was referring to the OOOOONCH KETU> > (GANESH)** which has the ZUZB of Shukkar.**> > .*> >> >> > Saturn could be Nek in any house of the kundali if a person leads a> > moral life, doesn't drink, doesn't eat meat, respects the servants> > and is a good paymaster… and so on. Similarly it can be very malefic> > even if it is placed in the 10th house [ his own] or the 7th house [> > of exlatation], if the Jatak turn it malefic through his own actions.> > *this is not a generic rule. Some times Saturn malefic activities are> > fruitful to native. as in case of Saturn in House 4. The wine may help the> > native to cure his disease.*> >> > *[ I hope you know the difference of liquor as a medicine and drinking> > liquor [ sharab noshi] as a malefic activity of Saturn. What pundit ji here> > meant is liquor as a medicine. Therefore to say that ` sometimes Saturn> > malefic activities are fruitful for the native is wrong. Activities of> > malefic Saturn can never be beneficial for the Jatak]*> >> > *Lalkitabee** Uvaach** :- ** kalsi ji read carefully---** **sharabnoshi,sanpon> > ke marvane, rat ke waqt makanon ki buniyad rakhne ki wajah se shani nakara> > kar liya jaya'. Matlab saaf hai ki sharabi ban jaane par shani nakaraa> > hee saabit hogaa chahey vah khana 4 main hee kyon na ho. Lekin mandi> > sehat ke samay sharab medicine ki tarah (bakaayda salaah se aur> > ek maap ya paimayish ke mutabik) lenaa shafaa degi. Mere khyaal se> > pandit ji ne DAVAA- DAARU ke farq ko bakaaydaa samjhaa diyaa hai.> > Fir bhi aap **"**Saturn in House 4. The wine may help the native to> > cure his disease."** likh rahey hain tou aap sharaab ko kis tarah se> > peene ki baat kar rahey hain, aap khud hee samjhaa dain*> >> >> > Secondly, a masnuyee planet is not formed by mere association [ in> > the sense you have used]. For a masnuyee planet to get formed, there> > have to be two natal planets. If and when a Venus is in the company> > of a Saturn, it will also result in a masnuyee exalted Ketu.> > Therefore while delineating the results one will have to study> > Venus, Saturn and also the two together in the form of masnuyee> > exalted Ketu. Therefore one will have to examine not two planets but> > will have to keep in mind a third planet also formed as a result of> > them two together.> > *yes You are right.*> > *7. Regarding saturn 8 remedy of square silver piece.it is also used for> > Rahu 8. Your point that it is the Moon relation with saturn in 8th give clue> > is somthing conflicting. I feel that there may be some other reasons for> > using sqaure silver piece. if moon involvement is there in Khana*> > [ 7 ] Yes, the square piece of silver is also advised to find out> > the nature of rahu. But the indications one would be looking for> > will be different than when finding out the nature of Saturn with a> > square piece of silver. In the case of the rahu it is the Mahout [> > elephant driver] which will speak. The same analogy does not hold> > good for Saturn in the 8th.> > *U asked in point 7:- " if moon involvement is there in Khana 8 then there> > will be no need of square piece only Silver shall be sufficient." I think u> > didnt read my mail carefuly. See my assert according to my previous mail in> > RED:--> > Ooper likhe gaye example main maine abhi sirf chandi ko madde-> > nazar kartey huve spasht kiya hai.Lekin "CHANDI KA CHAUKOR" apne aap> > main ek alag hee nazariya hai .Ise fir kabhi spasht karne ki koshish> > karoongaa .*> > It is remedy given in the book. . Saturn in 8th if single, will not give> > bad results.> > Pandit Ji Said that " Chander ka upaya Karney se Shani Apne Head quarter se bahar ......" as per your> > views moons association with saturn form Ketu Neech.then why we associate> > moon there to form a neech ketu. Why square why not round.> >> > *Lalkitabee** Uvaach** :-** Again im saying my previous sentence**---*"CHANDI> > KA CHAUKOR" apne aap main ek alag hee nazariya hai .Ise fir kabhi spasht> > karne ki koshish karoongaa .> >> > * 8 then there will be no need of square piece only Silver shall be> > sufficient.*> > [ 8 ] Pandit ji has advised to keep a square piece of silver to> > assess the nature of Saturn. He doesn't explain it any further. It> > is left to the reader to make out for himself. Suppose you have to> > find out the nature of Saturn through a square piece of silver :> >> > How would you go about it?> > How would you determine the nature of the Saturn?> > How will the square piece of silver indicate the nature of the> > Saturn?> > What indications would you be looking for before declaring Saturn> > malefic or benefic?> >> >> >> > *[ You have not answered my above mentioned queries. Could you please> > answer them for me?]*> >> > I assume what Pt Lalkitabee ji implies is that with Saturn in the> > 8th if the Jatak is given a square piece of silver to keep with him,> > and if the jatak experiences problem with his joints, spine, feet,> > ears or his son [ nishaniyan of neech Ketu ] then it can be assumed> > that the Saturn is malefic. If none of these indications are found> > then the Saturn can be declared as nek.> > *Planet shows it melefic or benefic nature through its articles/live> > things. It is a generic rule. If Saturn is melefic then the saturn related> > ashiyaan give bad results. If one has no problem regarding Saturn then why> > this remedy is required.If saturn gives melefic result then this remedy of> > no use. in my views There might be some hidden message in this remedy. Tyagi> > Ji 's above queries need to be answered by experts.*> >> >> >> > *[ In the first place you are mistaken to think that keeping the silver> > piece is an upaya. No it is not an upaya. The silver piece is a touchstone `> > kasauti' to find out the "neeyat and Tabiyat" of Saturn. If the `neeyat and> > tabiyat' of Saturn is already evident then one does not need to keep a> > square piece of silver. If the `neeyat and tabiyat' is benefic, no upaya is> > needed, if it is malefic then the upaya will be needed.*> >> > *Therefore silver piece is used as a catalyst and not as an upaya, a> > catalyst which will uncover the secret of shani ]> > **Lalkitabee** Uvaach** :-Kalsi ji ,many times Saturn doesn't give bad> > results at only its own ASHIYAAS. "KURBAANI KE BAKREY" ka chapter kyon> > zaayaa kar rahey ho Bandhuuuuuu..**> > Now i will love to hear from u about this square piece of silver 1st of> > all. So plz explain ur criteria bcoz u do not seem novice scholar of> > lalkitab*> > *Thanks for the compliments. I am still a novice in this field. I do not> > find myself to be a fit case to prescribe remedies to> > other. I expect the experts who prescribe these medicine to others> > may have correct answer. *> >> > * **[ Even as a novice you seem to have a good understanding. That is> > creditable ]*> >> > *Lalkitabee** Uvaach** :- """"""""""Zahe-naseeb""""""" Lekin koyee novice> > ya nausikhiyaa is tarikey se urdu ki kitaab ka page quote nahi kartaa chahey> > vah quote galat hee kyon na ho.Fir bhi meri purzor koshish hogi ki> > aap jo mujhse seekhnaaa ya janna chahtey hain main use samjhaane main> > kaamyaab ho jaun ..*> >> >> >> > , Chandra Prakash Tyagi> > cptyagi2007@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear kalsi ji,> > >> > > I have answered your comments on my observations within brackets in bold> > blue letters.> > >> > > I hope Pt. lalkitabee ji will also answer your comments on his> > observations.> > >> > > Sincerely,> > >> > > Cahndra Prakash> > >> > > Respected Shukla Ji & Tyagi Ji,> > > thanks for for answering my queries.> > > My qerries are in Bold, Tyagi ji Views & yours Endorsement in normal> > text and only yours View in Italic Blue."> > > I try to put my point view in these factors: Mine is in red> > >> > > Sh.Tyagi's View> > > I have tried to answer your questions in the same order you had> > > posed them.> > > I am carrying the debate forward, and if Pt. Lalkitabee ji so wishes> > > he can also join in later, may be to add to what I have said.> > >> > > Here are the answers to your queries :> > > 1. In Khana No. 4 it is written that if native has Faaliz or having> > disease the items of saturn will help him.> > > [ 1 ] Yes, only if the Saturn is Nek.> > > Does not matter in case of Saturn in House no 4, Please refer page 210> > line 7 of 1942.> > >> > >> > > [ It is not said in line # 7. It is said in line #10-11 " uska jism> > nakara hone ke waqt shani ki cheezon se sehat hogi". The book further warns> > that such a person should not get involved in `Kabootarbazee of women".> > >> > > The 1952 ed adds a few more conditions " sanp ka tel bechne se lavaldi> > ka sabot milega khwa aulad ke yog lakh uttam hon, isi trah hi> > sharabnoshi,sanpon ke marvane, rat ke waqt makanon ki buniyad rakhne ki> > wajah se shani nakara kar liya jaya'. Which means that the Saturn should not> > be made into a malefic then only the Saturn will help. It was in this> > context I had said that the Saturn will help so long it is benefic.> > Therefore it matters whether the Saturn is Nek or Bud ]> > >> > >> > > 2. Saturn is also described here as Khooni mallah. which destroy mamoo> > khandaan and Jaddi jaydaad.> > > [ 2 ] No. This is not the result of the Saturn in the 4th per> > > se,this will be the result only if the moon is also in the 10th.> > > Yes, it is due to saturn presence in 4th and also due to moon effect for> > being in 10th.> > > 3. Shani Kisi bhee halat mein tevay waalay kaa bura nahin karega> > > in my view this is the house where saturn has the quality where he help> > the native in distress/disease even his bite can help the faliz patient to> > stand and run. Let us apply the rules in saturn 4 illustrated in your reply.> > Saturn being in 4th is having the realtionship with Moon. as per the above> > lines in red it become Neech Masnoyi ketu. Saturn has the deep enimity with> > Sun and ketu halves the sun . Now the point came in mind> > > [ 3 ] Yes, only if the Saturn is Nek. Therefore to say that ` shani> > > kisi bhi halat mein bura nahi karega ` is wrong.> > > Please read my answer to point 1or refer page 210 line 7 of 1942.> > >> > > [ My objection was to your statement " kisi bhi halat mein" which means> > under all circumstances. The conditions I have mentioned above make the role> > of Shani in the 4th subject to certain conditions, therefore it is not> > correct to say ` kisi bhi halat mein' ]> > >> > >> > > I hope you understand the difference of being with or in the> > > companionship of as against being related through a placement.> > > Simply because the Saturn is in the 4th house, it can not be taken> > > to mean that it is WITH the Moon. A masnuyee exalted Ketu can not be> > > formed unless the Saturn and the Moon are physically together.> > > Masnuyee planet is not formed merely by a planet being placed in a> > > house.> > > As per the properties of houses the effect of owner always be there in> > his pakka house..> > >> > > [ But that effect does not get transformed into a masnuyee planet ]> > >> > >> > > 4. How Neech ketu or saturn help his deep enemy Sun in distress .> > > [ 4 ] The masnuyee debilitated ketu is not formed, therefore the> > > premise you have made is in fructuous.> > > I think each & every part is crystal clear with the efforts of Mr. Tyagi> > . Have u included Sun incidently in point no. 3 & 4 in ur mail ? Plz correct> > my understanding.> > > your views to my querry (How saturn help his deep enemy Sun in distress> > ) are left inadvertantly.. No I have not included Sun incidentaly in my> > mail.> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > 5. Saturn & Moon is not a good combination. Sat+Moon in 4 ( it may be> > wrong) may cause Purdard Maut. is it not conflicting with the above.> > > [ 5 ] This could be true only if the natal Moon is also placed> > > along with the Saturn in the 4th house.> > > yes, you repeated what i have written.> > >> > >> > > 6. Venus is no where realted to the khana 4 hence making of good shani> > or uccha ketu is ruled out. Is the theory of involvement of venus here is> > right.> > > [ 6 ] Pt. Lalkitabee ji never said that Venus is associated with> > > 4th house.> > > And also never forget that Saturn can be Nek as such without the> > > help of any other planet. Therefore your presumption that Saturn> > > will act beneficially only if it is helped by venus is misplaced.> > > It is not my point of view, it is the view of one of our friend in> > earlier mails and Shukla ji also refered towards it. .> > >> > > Saturn could be Nek in any house of the kundali if a person leads a> > > moral life, doesn't drink, doesn't eat meat, respects the servants> > > and is a good paymaster… and so on. Similarly it can be very malefic> > > even if it is placed in the 10th house [ his own] or the 7th house [> > > of exlatation], if the Jatak turn it malefic through his own actions.> > > this is not a generic rule. Some times Saturn malefic activities are> > fruitful to native. as in case of Saturn in House 4. The wine may help the> > native to cure his disease.> > >> > >> > > [ I hope you know the difference of liquor as a medicine and drinking> > liquor [ sharab noshi] as a malefic activity of Saturn. What pundit ji here> > meant is liquor as a medicine. Therefore to say that ` sometimes Saturn> > malefic activities are fruitful for the native is wrong. Activities of> > malefic Saturn can never be beneficial for the Jatak]> > >> > >> > > Secondly, a masnuyee planet is not formed by mere association [ in> > > the sense you have used]. For a masnuyee planet to get formed, there> > > have to be two natal planets. If and when a Venus is in the company> > > of a Saturn, it will also result in a masnuyee exalted Ketu.> > > Therefore while delineating the results one will have to study> > > Venus, Saturn and also the two together in the form of masnuyee> > > exalted Ketu. Therefore one will have to examine not two planets but> > > will have to keep in mind a third planet also formed as a result of> > > them two together.> > > yes You are right.> > > 7. Regarding saturn 8 remedy of square silver piece.it is also used for> > Rahu 8. Your point that it is the Moon relation with saturn in 8th give clue> > is somthing conflicting. I feel that there may be some other reasons for> > using sqaure silver piece. if moon involvement is there in Khana> > > [ 7 ] Yes, the square piece of silver is also advised to find out> > > the nature of rahu. But the indications one would be looking for> > > will be different than when finding out the nature of Saturn with a> > > square piece of silver. In the case of the rahu it is the Mahout [> > > elephant driver] which will speak. The same analogy does not hold> > > good for Saturn in the 8th.> > > U asked in point 7:- " if moon involvement is there in Khana 8 then> > there will be no need of square piece only Silver shall be sufficient." I> > think u didnt read my mail carefuly. See my assert according to my previous> > mail in RED:--> > > Ooper likhe gaye example main maine abhi sirf chandi ko madde-> > > nazar kartey huve spasht kiya hai.Lekin "CHANDI KA CHAUKOR" apne aap> > > main ek alag hee nazariya hai .Ise fir kabhi spasht karne ki koshish> > > karoongaa .> > > It is remedy given in the book. . Saturn in 8th if single, will not give> > bad results. Pandit Ji Said that " Chander ka upaya Karney se Shani Apne> > Head quarter se bahar ......" as per your views moons association with> > saturn form Ketu Neech.then why we associate moon there to form a neech> > ketu. Why square why not round.> > > 8 then there will be no need of square piece only Silver shall be> > sufficient.> > > [ 8 ] Pandit ji has advised to keep a square piece of silver to> > > assess the nature of Saturn. He doesn't explain it any further. It> > > is left to the reader to make out for himself. Suppose you have to> > > find out the nature of Saturn through a square piece of silver :> > >> > > How would you go about it?> > > How would you determine the nature of the Saturn?> > > How will the square piece of silver indicate the nature of the> > > Saturn?> > > What indications would you be looking for before declaring Saturn> > > malefic or benefic?> > >> > > [ You have not answered my above mentioned queries. Could you please> > answer them for me?]> > >> > > I assume what Pt Lalkitabee ji implies is that with Saturn in the> > > 8th if the Jatak is given a square piece of silver to keep with him,> > > and if the jatak experiences problem with his joints, spine, feet,> > > ears or his son [ nishaniyan of neech Ketu ] then it can be assumed> > > that the Saturn is malefic. If none of these indications are found> > > then the Saturn can be declared as nek.> > > Planet shows it melefic or benefic nature through its articles/live> > things. It is a generic rule. If Saturn is melefic then the saturn related> > ashiyaan give bad results. If one has no problem regarding Saturn then why> > this remedy is required.If saturn gives melefic result then this remedy of> > no use. in my views There might be some hidden message in this remedy. Tyagi> > Ji 's above queries need to be answered by experts.> > >> > > [ In the first place you are mistaken to think that keeping the silver> > piece is an upaya. No it is not an upaya. The silver piece is a touchstone `> > kasauti' to find out the "neeyat and Tabiyat" of Saturn. If the `neeyat and> > tabiyat' of Saturn is already evident then one does not need to keep a> > square piece of silver. If the `neeyat and tabiyat' is benefic, no upaya is> > needed, if it is malefic then the upaya will be needed.> > > Therefore silver piece is used as a catalyst and not as an upaya, a> > catalyst which will uncover the secret of shani ]> > >> > > Now i will love to hear from u about this square piece of silver 1st of> > all. So plz explain ur criteria bcoz u do not seem novice scholar of> > lalkitab> > > Thanks for the compliments. I am still a novice in this field. I do not> > find myself to be a fit case to prescribe remedies to other. I expect the> > experts who prescribe these medicine to others may have correct answer.> > >> > > [ Even as a novice you seem to have a good understanding. That is> > creditable ]> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > Get the freedom to save as many mails as you wish. Click here to know> > how.> > >> > > > > > Save all your chat conversations. Find them online.> > >> >> >>