Guest guest Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Thakur ji, under Moon Saturn combination " jahan shani ka prabhav acha hoga usme 1/3 hissa chandra ka bura shamil hoga aur jahan chandr ka prabhav acha hoga wayan shani ka 3 guna bura prabhav shamil hoga. " (neech ketu)ab kissi ik grah ke acha ya bura karne se totality me insaan par kya prabhav padhta hai, yeh zaroori hai. kulbir , " Iqbal Chand Thakur " <thakur.iqbalchand wrote: > > Bhai Kitabee Ji, > wallah, > Kya lalkitaab mein likha hai ki Jis grah ko bura kar liya jaaye Weh > achha nateeza de gaa. Aapka Baar baar kahana ke Agar Shani nek ho > tabhi achha nateeza dega kuchh azeeb saa laga. Kaya koyi aisa grah > bhee hai jis ko kharaab karliya jaaye aur veh achha nateezaa dega. > Bhai lalkitab mein jahan kahin bhee yeh likha hai kee falaan grah > achha yaa falaan grah nek nateeza dega us kaa matlab hee yehi hota hai > kee voh grah jab tak nek rakha jaavay tabhi taq. > Bhai Ghar kee chhat tabhi taak leak nahin karegi jab taq us ko theek > aur darust rakha jaaye, Agar us mein keel thok kar chhed karogay to > paani to chovega hee > chaahe kitna pakka lenter ho. > Baaqi jo Yeh itni badi discussion huyi hai " Nesh se Ganesh Ki " aap > sabhi ke liye main us ko neechay likh raha hoon:- > " Sanichar syah rang kaa saanp,Maut ka yam Khud Uday -doosron kop udaavey. > Ichhiyadhaari > to sabh ko taarey-kaala rang sab per chadhay, magar > kaalay rang per koyi naa chadhey,nesh (Dang) se ganesh hovey, machhli > ke anday, magar machh kaa pet, qabeela badhey. > Ulat > To marey. " > Abb aagey aap wali baat hai > Nek ho to Ichhiyadhari aur ulat ho to sabh kucch ujaadey. > Charcha jaari rakhen. Nateeza jaroor niklega > > aapka > > Iqbal Chand Thakur > > > > > > > On 3/4/08, lalkitabee <lalkitabee wrote: > > > > *Respected Kalsi Ji* > > > > *U r adopting the style ,by which only lines of lalkitab r aquiring web > > space till present. Though I wil try to make my vision to graspable within > > lalkitab. My views r with the heading of Lalkitabee Uvaach :- in > > highlited portion of combined mail of Tyagi Ji & u. Plz read as below:-* > > > > *With Regards* > > > > *Pt.Lalkitabee V.Shukla * > > * > > -------------------------------- --- ----------------------------- > > Dear kalsi ji, > > > > I have answered your comments on my observations within brackets in bold > > blue letters. > > > > I hope Pt. lalkitabee ji will also answer your comments on his > > observations. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Cahndra Prakash > > > > Respected Shukla Ji & Tyagi Ji, > > thanks for for answering my queries. > > My qerries are in Bold, Tyagi ji Views & yours Endorsement in normal text > > and only yours View in Italic Blue. " > > I try to put my point view in these factors: Mine is in red > > > > Sh.Tyagi's View > > I have tried to answer your questions in the same order you had > > posed them. > > I am carrying the debate forward, and if Pt. Lalkitabee ji so wishes > > he can also join in later, may be to add to what I have said. > > > > Here are the answers to your queries > > * > > > > *1. In Khana No. 4 it is written that if native has Faaliz or having > > disease the items of saturn will help him.* > > [ 1 ] Yes, only if the Saturn is Nek. > > *Does not matter in case of Saturn in House no 4, Please refer page 210 > > line 7 of 1942.* > > > > *[ It is not said in line # 7. It is said in line #10-11 " uska jism > > nakara hone ke waqt shani ki cheezon se sehat hogi " . The book further > > warns that such a person should not get involved in `Kabootarbazee of > > women " . * > > > > *The 1952 ed adds a few more conditions " sanp ka tel bechne se lavaldi ka > > sabot milega khwa aulad ke yog lakh uttam hon, isi trah hi > > sharabnoshi,sanpon ke marvane, rat ke waqt makanon ki buniyad rakhne ki > > wajah se shani nakara kar liya jaya'. Which means that the Saturn should not > > be made into a malefic then only the Saturn will help. It was in this > > context I had said that the Saturn will help so long it is benefic. > > Therefore it matters whether the Saturn is Nek or Bud ]* > > > > *Lalkitabee** Uvaach** :-** Agar shani is khana main sirf nek tabiyat ka > > hee hota to " **Ab shani bura na hogaa. " ** is line ke baad Pandit Ji > > kuchh bhi nahi likhtey. lekin unhone uske kharaab hone > > ke kaaran bhi ginaaye hain ** * > > > > > > *2. Saturn is also described here as Khooni mallah. which destroy mamoo > > khandaan and Jaddi jaydaad.* > > [ 2 ] No. This is not the result of the Saturn in the 4th per > > se,this will be the result only if the moon is also in the 10th. > > *Yes, it is due to saturn presence in 4th and also due to moon effect for > > being in 10th. * > > *3. Shani Kisi bhee halat mein tevay waalay kaa bura nahin karega ** > > in my view this is the house where saturn has the quality where he help > > the native in distress/disease even his bite can help the faliz patient to > > stand and run. Let us apply the rules in saturn 4 illustrated in your reply. > > Saturn being in 4th is having the realtionship with Moon. as per the above > > lines in red it become Neech Masnoyi ketu. Saturn has the deep enimity with > > Sun and ketu halves the sun . Now the point came in mind* > > [ 3 ] Yes, only if the Saturn is Nek. Therefore to say that ` shani > > kisi bhi halat mein bura nahi karega ` is wrong. > > *Please read my answer to point 1or refer page 210** line 7 of 1942.* > > > > > > > > *[ My objection was to your statement " kisi bhi halat mein " which means > > under all circumstances. The conditions I have mentioned above make the > > role of Shani in the 4th subject to certain conditions, therefore it is > > not correct to say ` kisi bhi halat mein' ]* > > > > * **Lalkitabee** Uvaach** :- Nothing to say –even a primary student also > > can understand this sentence . > > .** * > > > > > > I hope you understand the difference of being with or in the > > companionship of as against being related through a placement. > > Simply because the Saturn is in the 4th house, it can not be taken > > to mean that it is WITH the Moon. A masnuyee exalted Ketu can not be > > formed unless the Saturn and the Moon are physically together. > > Masnuyee planet is not formed merely by a planet being placed in a > > house. > > *As per the properties of houses the effect of owner always be there in > > his pakka house.*. > > > > > > > > *[ But that effect does not get transformed into a masnuyee planet ]* > > > > * **Lalkitabee** Uvaach** :- I agree with Tyagi ji & adding more > > that---Masnuyee haalat main do grahon ke talluq ke saath saath hamain yah > > nazariya bhi nahi bhoolnaa chahiye ki har grah ke do zuzb hote hain > > . > > ** * > > > > > > *4. How Neech ketu or saturn help his deep enemy Sun in distress .* > > [ 4 ] The masnuyee debilitated ketu is not formed, therefore the > > premise you have made is in fructuous. > > *I think each & every part is crystal clear with the efforts of Mr. Tyagi > > . Have u included Sun incidently in point no. 3 & 4 in ur mail ? Plz correct > > my understanding. > > **your views to my querry (How saturn help his deep enemy Sun in distress > > ) are left inadvertantly.. No I have not included Sun incidentaly in my > > mail. * > > > > *Lalkitabee** Uvaach** :- u r misleading here this discussion, All > > discussion is around the shani = ketu masnuyee (shani+chandar or shani > > + shukkar). where u saw sun in these combinations.So keep the track, > > otherwise u shud explain correlation of sun in this context 1st of > > all . .** * > > > > > > > > *5. Saturn & Moon is not a good combination. Sat+Moon in 4 ( it may be > > wrong) may cause Purdard Maut. is it not conflicting with the above.* > > [ 5 ] This could be true only if the natal Moon is also placed > > along with the Saturn in the 4th house. > > yes, you repeated what i have written. > > > > > > *6. Venus is no where realted to the khana 4 hence making of good shani or > > uccha ketu is ruled out. Is the theory of involvement of venus here is > > right.* > > [ 6 ] Pt. Lalkitabee ji never said that Venus is associated with > > 4th house. > > And also never forget that Saturn can be Nek as such without the > > help of any other planet. Therefore your presumption that Saturn > > will act beneficially only if it is helped by venus is misplaced. > > *It is not my point of view, it is the view of one of our friend in > > earlier mails and Shukla ji also refered towards it.* > > > > *Lalkitabee** Uvaach** :-** Main Ratoon Raam Raam, Tum suno Maraa Maraa. > > > > > > * > > > > *Shukla Ji never refered shukra ,he was referring to the OOOOONCH KETU > > (GANESH)** which has the ZUZB of Shukkar.** > > .* > > > > > > Saturn could be Nek in any house of the kundali if a person leads a > > moral life, doesn't drink, doesn't eat meat, respects the servants > > and is a good paymaster… and so on. Similarly it can be very malefic > > even if it is placed in the 10th house [ his own] or the 7th house [ > > of exlatation], if the Jatak turn it malefic through his own actions. > > *this is not a generic rule. Some times Saturn malefic activities are > > fruitful to native. as in case of Saturn in House 4. The wine may help the > > native to cure his disease.* > > > > *[ I hope you know the difference of liquor as a medicine and drinking > > liquor [ sharab noshi] as a malefic activity of Saturn. What pundit ji here > > meant is liquor as a medicine. Therefore to say that ` sometimes Saturn > > malefic activities are fruitful for the native is wrong. Activities of > > malefic Saturn can never be beneficial for the Jatak]* > > > > *Lalkitabee** Uvaach** :- ** kalsi ji read carefully---** **sharabnoshi,sanpon > > ke marvane, rat ke waqt makanon ki buniyad rakhne ki wajah se shani nakara > > kar liya jaya'. Matlab saaf hai ki sharabi ban jaane par shani nakaraa > > hee saabit hogaa chahey vah khana 4 main hee kyon na ho. Lekin mandi > > sehat ke samay sharab medicine ki tarah (bakaayda salaah se aur > > ek maap ya paimayish ke mutabik) lenaa shafaa degi. Mere khyaal se > > pandit ji ne DAVAA- DAARU ke farq ko bakaaydaa samjhaa diyaa hai. > > Fir bhi aap ** " **Saturn in House 4. The wine may help the native to > > cure his disease. " ** likh rahey hain tou aap sharaab ko kis tarah se > > peene ki baat kar rahey hain, aap khud hee samjhaa dain* > > > > > > Secondly, a masnuyee planet is not formed by mere association [ in > > the sense you have used]. For a masnuyee planet to get formed, there > > have to be two natal planets. If and when a Venus is in the company > > of a Saturn, it will also result in a masnuyee exalted Ketu. > > Therefore while delineating the results one will have to study > > Venus, Saturn and also the two together in the form of masnuyee > > exalted Ketu. Therefore one will have to examine not two planets but > > will have to keep in mind a third planet also formed as a result of > > them two together. > > *yes You are right.* > > *7. Regarding saturn 8 remedy of square silver piece.it is also used for > > Rahu 8. Your point that it is the Moon relation with saturn in 8th give clue > > is somthing conflicting. I feel that there may be some other reasons for > > using sqaure silver piece. if moon involvement is there in Khana* > > [ 7 ] Yes, the square piece of silver is also advised to find out > > the nature of rahu. But the indications one would be looking for > > will be different than when finding out the nature of Saturn with a > > square piece of silver. In the case of the rahu it is the Mahout [ > > elephant driver] which will speak. The same analogy does not hold > > good for Saturn in the 8th. > > *U asked in point 7:- " if moon involvement is there in Khana 8 then there > > will be no need of square piece only Silver shall be sufficient. " I think u > > didnt read my mail carefuly. See my assert according to my previous mail in > > RED:-- > > Ooper likhe gaye example main maine abhi sirf chandi ko madde- > > nazar kartey huve spasht kiya hai.Lekin " CHANDI KA CHAUKOR " apne aap > > main ek alag hee nazariya hai .Ise fir kabhi spasht karne ki koshish > > karoongaa .* > > It is remedy given in the book. . Saturn in 8th if single, will not give > > bad results. > > Pandit Ji Said that " Chander ka upaya Karney se Shani Apne Head quarter se bahar ...... " as per your > > views moons association with saturn form Ketu Neech.then why we associate > > moon there to form a neech ketu. Why square why not round. > > > > *Lalkitabee** Uvaach** :-** Again im saying my previous sentence**---* " CHANDI > > KA CHAUKOR " apne aap main ek alag hee nazariya hai .Ise fir kabhi spasht > > karne ki koshish karoongaa . > > > > * 8 then there will be no need of square piece only Silver shall be > > sufficient.* > > [ 8 ] Pandit ji has advised to keep a square piece of silver to > > assess the nature of Saturn. He doesn't explain it any further. It > > is left to the reader to make out for himself. Suppose you have to > > find out the nature of Saturn through a square piece of silver : > > > > How would you go about it? > > How would you determine the nature of the Saturn? > > How will the square piece of silver indicate the nature of the > > Saturn? > > What indications would you be looking for before declaring Saturn > > malefic or benefic? > > > > > > > > *[ You have not answered my above mentioned queries. Could you please > > answer them for me?]* > > > > I assume what Pt Lalkitabee ji implies is that with Saturn in the > > 8th if the Jatak is given a square piece of silver to keep with him, > > and if the jatak experiences problem with his joints, spine, feet, > > ears or his son [ nishaniyan of neech Ketu ] then it can be assumed > > that the Saturn is malefic. If none of these indications are found > > then the Saturn can be declared as nek. > > *Planet shows it melefic or benefic nature through its articles/live > > things. It is a generic rule. If Saturn is melefic then the saturn related > > ashiyaan give bad results. If one has no problem regarding Saturn then why > > this remedy is required.If saturn gives melefic result then this remedy of > > no use. in my views There might be some hidden message in this remedy. Tyagi > > Ji 's above queries need to be answered by experts.* > > > > > > > > *[ In the first place you are mistaken to think that keeping the silver > > piece is an upaya. No it is not an upaya. The silver piece is a touchstone ` > > kasauti' to find out the " neeyat and Tabiyat " of Saturn. If the `neeyat and > > tabiyat' of Saturn is already evident then one does not need to keep a > > square piece of silver. If the `neeyat and tabiyat' is benefic, no upaya is > > needed, if it is malefic then the upaya will be needed.* > > > > *Therefore silver piece is used as a catalyst and not as an upaya, a > > catalyst which will uncover the secret of shani ] > > **Lalkitabee** Uvaach** :-Kalsi ji ,many times Saturn doesn't give bad > > results at only its own ASHIYAAS. " KURBAANI KE BAKREY " ka chapter kyon > > zaayaa kar rahey ho Bandhuuuuuu..** > > Now i will love to hear from u about this square piece of silver 1st of > > all. So plz explain ur criteria bcoz u do not seem novice scholar of > > lalkitab* > > *Thanks for the compliments. I am still a novice in this field. I do not > > find myself to be a fit case to prescribe remedies to > > other. I expect the experts who prescribe these medicine to others > > may have correct answer. * > > > > * **[ Even as a novice you seem to have a good understanding. That is > > creditable ]* > > > > *Lalkitabee** Uvaach** :- " " " " " " " " " " Zahe-naseeb " " " " " " " Lekin koyee novice > > ya nausikhiyaa is tarikey se urdu ki kitaab ka page quote nahi kartaa chahey > > vah quote galat hee kyon na ho.Fir bhi meri purzor koshish hogi ki > > aap jo mujhse seekhnaaa ya janna chahtey hain main use samjhaane main > > kaamyaab ho jaun ..* > > > > > > > > , Chandra Prakash Tyagi > > <cptyagi2007@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear kalsi ji, > > > > > > I have answered your comments on my observations within brackets in bold > > blue letters. > > > > > > I hope Pt. lalkitabee ji will also answer your comments on his > > observations. > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > > > Cahndra Prakash > > > > > > Respected Shukla Ji & Tyagi Ji, > > > thanks for for answering my queries. > > > My qerries are in Bold, Tyagi ji Views & yours Endorsement in normal > > text and only yours View in Italic Blue. " > > > I try to put my point view in these factors: Mine is in red > > > > > > Sh.Tyagi's View > > > I have tried to answer your questions in the same order you had > > > posed them. > > > I am carrying the debate forward, and if Pt. Lalkitabee ji so wishes > > > he can also join in later, may be to add to what I have said. > > > > > > Here are the answers to your queries : > > > 1. In Khana No. 4 it is written that if native has Faaliz or having > > disease the items of saturn will help him. > > > [ 1 ] Yes, only if the Saturn is Nek. > > > Does not matter in case of Saturn in House no 4, Please refer page 210 > > line 7 of 1942. > > > > > > > > > [ It is not said in line # 7. It is said in line #10-11 " uska jism > > nakara hone ke waqt shani ki cheezon se sehat hogi " . The book further warns > > that such a person should not get involved in `Kabootarbazee of women " . > > > > > > The 1952 ed adds a few more conditions " sanp ka tel bechne se lavaldi > > ka sabot milega khwa aulad ke yog lakh uttam hon, isi trah hi > > sharabnoshi,sanpon ke marvane, rat ke waqt makanon ki buniyad rakhne ki > > wajah se shani nakara kar liya jaya'. Which means that the Saturn should not > > be made into a malefic then only the Saturn will help. It was in this > > context I had said that the Saturn will help so long it is benefic. > > Therefore it matters whether the Saturn is Nek or Bud ] > > > > > > > > > 2. Saturn is also described here as Khooni mallah. which destroy mamoo > > khandaan and Jaddi jaydaad. > > > [ 2 ] No. This is not the result of the Saturn in the 4th per > > > se,this will be the result only if the moon is also in the 10th. > > > Yes, it is due to saturn presence in 4th and also due to moon effect for > > being in 10th. > > > 3. Shani Kisi bhee halat mein tevay waalay kaa bura nahin karega > > > in my view this is the house where saturn has the quality where he help > > the native in distress/disease even his bite can help the faliz patient to > > stand and run. Let us apply the rules in saturn 4 illustrated in your reply. > > Saturn being in 4th is having the realtionship with Moon. as per the above > > lines in red it become Neech Masnoyi ketu. Saturn has the deep enimity with > > Sun and ketu halves the sun . Now the point came in mind > > > [ 3 ] Yes, only if the Saturn is Nek. Therefore to say that ` shani > > > kisi bhi halat mein bura nahi karega ` is wrong. > > > Please read my answer to point 1or refer page 210 line 7 of 1942. > > > > > > [ My objection was to your statement " kisi bhi halat mein " which means > > under all circumstances. The conditions I have mentioned above make the role > > of Shani in the 4th subject to certain conditions, therefore it is not > > correct to say ` kisi bhi halat mein' ] > > > > > > > > > I hope you understand the difference of being with or in the > > > companionship of as against being related through a placement. > > > Simply because the Saturn is in the 4th house, it can not be taken > > > to mean that it is WITH the Moon. A masnuyee exalted Ketu can not be > > > formed unless the Saturn and the Moon are physically together. > > > Masnuyee planet is not formed merely by a planet being placed in a > > > house. > > > As per the properties of houses the effect of owner always be there in > > his pakka house.. > > > > > > [ But that effect does not get transformed into a masnuyee planet ] > > > > > > > > > 4. How Neech ketu or saturn help his deep enemy Sun in distress . > > > [ 4 ] The masnuyee debilitated ketu is not formed, therefore the > > > premise you have made is in fructuous. > > > I think each & every part is crystal clear with the efforts of Mr. Tyagi > > . Have u included Sun incidently in point no. 3 & 4 in ur mail ? Plz correct > > my understanding. > > > your views to my querry (How saturn help his deep enemy Sun in distress > > ) are left inadvertantly.. No I have not included Sun incidentaly in my > > mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5. Saturn & Moon is not a good combination. Sat+Moon in 4 ( it may be > > wrong) may cause Purdard Maut. is it not conflicting with the above. > > > [ 5 ] This could be true only if the natal Moon is also placed > > > along with the Saturn in the 4th house. > > > yes, you repeated what i have written. > > > > > > > > > 6. Venus is no where realted to the khana 4 hence making of good shani > > or uccha ketu is ruled out. Is the theory of involvement of venus here is > > right. > > > [ 6 ] Pt. Lalkitabee ji never said that Venus is associated with > > > 4th house. > > > And also never forget that Saturn can be Nek as such without the > > > help of any other planet. Therefore your presumption that Saturn > > > will act beneficially only if it is helped by venus is misplaced. > > > It is not my point of view, it is the view of one of our friend in > > earlier mails and Shukla ji also refered towards it. . > > > > > > Saturn could be Nek in any house of the kundali if a person leads a > > > moral life, doesn't drink, doesn't eat meat, respects the servants > > > and is a good paymaster… and so on. Similarly it can be very malefic > > > even if it is placed in the 10th house [ his own] or the 7th house [ > > > of exlatation], if the Jatak turn it malefic through his own actions. > > > this is not a generic rule. Some times Saturn malefic activities are > > fruitful to native. as in case of Saturn in House 4. The wine may help the > > native to cure his disease. > > > > > > > > > [ I hope you know the difference of liquor as a medicine and drinking > > liquor [ sharab noshi] as a malefic activity of Saturn. What pundit ji here > > meant is liquor as a medicine. Therefore to say that ` sometimes Saturn > > malefic activities are fruitful for the native is wrong. Activities of > > malefic Saturn can never be beneficial for the Jatak] > > > > > > > > > Secondly, a masnuyee planet is not formed by mere association [ in > > > the sense you have used]. For a masnuyee planet to get formed, there > > > have to be two natal planets. If and when a Venus is in the company > > > of a Saturn, it will also result in a masnuyee exalted Ketu. > > > Therefore while delineating the results one will have to study > > > Venus, Saturn and also the two together in the form of masnuyee > > > exalted Ketu. Therefore one will have to examine not two planets but > > > will have to keep in mind a third planet also formed as a result of > > > them two together. > > > yes You are right. > > > 7. Regarding saturn 8 remedy of square silver piece.it is also used for > > Rahu 8. Your point that it is the Moon relation with saturn in 8th give clue > > is somthing conflicting. I feel that there may be some other reasons for > > using sqaure silver piece. if moon involvement is there in Khana > > > [ 7 ] Yes, the square piece of silver is also advised to find out > > > the nature of rahu. But the indications one would be looking for > > > will be different than when finding out the nature of Saturn with a > > > square piece of silver. In the case of the rahu it is the Mahout [ > > > elephant driver] which will speak. The same analogy does not hold > > > good for Saturn in the 8th. > > > U asked in point 7:- " if moon involvement is there in Khana 8 then > > there will be no need of square piece only Silver shall be sufficient. " I > > think u didnt read my mail carefuly. See my assert according to my previous > > mail in RED:-- > > > Ooper likhe gaye example main maine abhi sirf chandi ko madde- > > > nazar kartey huve spasht kiya hai.Lekin " CHANDI KA CHAUKOR " apne aap > > > main ek alag hee nazariya hai .Ise fir kabhi spasht karne ki koshish > > > karoongaa . > > > It is remedy given in the book. . Saturn in 8th if single, will not give > > bad results. Pandit Ji Said that " Chander ka upaya Karney se Shani Apne > > Head quarter se bahar ...... " as per your views moons association with > > saturn form Ketu Neech.then why we associate moon there to form a neech > > ketu. Why square why not round. > > > 8 then there will be no need of square piece only Silver shall be > > sufficient. > > > [ 8 ] Pandit ji has advised to keep a square piece of silver to > > > assess the nature of Saturn. He doesn't explain it any further. It > > > is left to the reader to make out for himself. Suppose you have to > > > find out the nature of Saturn through a square piece of silver : > > > > > > How would you go about it? > > > How would you determine the nature of the Saturn? > > > How will the square piece of silver indicate the nature of the > > > Saturn? > > > What indications would you be looking for before declaring Saturn > > > malefic or benefic? > > > > > > [ You have not answered my above mentioned queries. Could you please > > answer them for me?] > > > > > > I assume what Pt Lalkitabee ji implies is that with Saturn in the > > > 8th if the Jatak is given a square piece of silver to keep with him, > > > and if the jatak experiences problem with his joints, spine, feet, > > > ears or his son [ nishaniyan of neech Ketu ] then it can be assumed > > > that the Saturn is malefic. If none of these indications are found > > > then the Saturn can be declared as nek. > > > Planet shows it melefic or benefic nature through its articles/live > > things. It is a generic rule. If Saturn is melefic then the saturn related > > ashiyaan give bad results. If one has no problem regarding Saturn then why > > this remedy is required.If saturn gives melefic result then this remedy of > > no use. in my views There might be some hidden message in this remedy. Tyagi > > Ji 's above queries need to be answered by experts. > > > > > > [ In the first place you are mistaken to think that keeping the silver > > piece is an upaya. No it is not an upaya. The silver piece is a touchstone ` > > kasauti' to find out the " neeyat and Tabiyat " of Saturn. If the `neeyat and > > tabiyat' of Saturn is already evident then one does not need to keep a > > square piece of silver. If the `neeyat and tabiyat' is benefic, no upaya is > > needed, if it is malefic then the upaya will be needed. > > > Therefore silver piece is used as a catalyst and not as an upaya, a > > catalyst which will uncover the secret of shani ] > > > > > > Now i will love to hear from u about this square piece of silver 1st of > > all. So plz explain ur criteria bcoz u do not seem novice scholar of > > lalkitab > > > Thanks for the compliments. I am still a novice in this field. I do not > > find myself to be a fit case to prescribe remedies to other. I expect the > > experts who prescribe these medicine to others may have correct answer. > > > > > > [ Even as a novice you seem to have a good understanding. That is > > creditable ] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get the freedom to save as many mails as you wish. Click here to know > > how. > > > > > > > > > Save all your chat conversations. Find them online. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Dear Thakur ji, Adhrang paralysis of body is resultanat of nervous disorder or failure of nervous control, thus coming under rahu (dimaagi bimari). rahu can be controled by moon or mars. here by stinging of snake the effect of moon is strengthened 3 fold, which helps in restoration of nervous disorder. this is how nesh (dank) turns into Gnaesh (ketu) i.e. a new life of the native. Sincerely, klulbir , " kulbirbance " <kulbirbainz wrote: > > Thakur ji, > > under Moon Saturn combination " jahan shani ka prabhav > acha hoga usme 1/3 hissa chandra ka bura shamil hoga aur jahan > chandr ka prabhav acha hoga wayan shani ka 3 guna bura prabhav > shamil hoga. " (neech ketu)ab kissi ik grah ke acha ya bura karne se > totality me insaan par kya prabhav padhta hai, yeh zaroori hai. > > kulbir > > > > > > , " Iqbal Chand Thakur " > <thakur.iqbalchand@> wrote: > > > > Bhai Kitabee Ji, > > wallah, > > Kya lalkitaab mein likha hai ki Jis grah ko bura kar liya jaaye Weh > > achha nateeza de gaa. Aapka Baar baar kahana ke Agar Shani nek ho > > tabhi achha nateeza dega kuchh azeeb saa laga. Kaya koyi aisa grah > > bhee hai jis ko kharaab karliya jaaye aur veh achha nateezaa dega. > > Bhai lalkitab mein jahan kahin bhee yeh likha hai kee falaan grah > > achha yaa falaan grah nek nateeza dega us kaa matlab hee yehi hota > hai > > kee voh grah jab tak nek rakha jaavay tabhi taq. > > Bhai Ghar kee chhat tabhi taak leak nahin karegi jab taq us ko > theek > > aur darust rakha jaaye, Agar us mein keel thok kar chhed karogay to > > paani to chovega hee > > chaahe kitna pakka lenter ho. > > Baaqi jo Yeh itni badi discussion huyi hai " Nesh se Ganesh Ki " aap > > sabhi ke liye main us ko neechay likh raha hoon:- > > " Sanichar syah rang kaa saanp,Maut ka yam Khud Uday -doosron kop > udaavey. > > Ichhiyadhaari > > to sabh ko taarey-kaala rang sab per chadhay, magar > > kaalay rang per koyi naa chadhey,nesh (Dang) se ganesh hovey, > machhli > > ke anday, magar machh kaa pet, qabeela badhey. > > Ulat > > To marey. " > > Abb aagey aap wali baat hai > > Nek ho to Ichhiyadhari aur ulat ho to sabh kucch ujaadey. > > Charcha jaari rakhen. Nateeza jaroor niklega > > > > aapka > > > > Iqbal Chand Thakur > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/4/08, lalkitabee <lalkitabee@> wrote: > > > > > > *Respected Kalsi Ji* > > > > > > *U r adopting the style ,by which only lines of lalkitab r > aquiring web > > > space till present. Though I wil try to make my vision to > graspable within > > > lalkitab. My views r with the heading of Lalkitabee Uvaach :- in > > > highlited portion of combined mail of Tyagi Ji & u. Plz read as > below:-* > > > > > > *With Regards* > > > > > > *Pt.Lalkitabee V.Shukla * > > > * > > > ------------------------------ -- > - -- > ----------------------------- > > > Dear kalsi ji, > > > > > > I have answered your comments on my observations within brackets > in bold > > > blue letters. > > > > > > I hope Pt. lalkitabee ji will also answer your comments on his > > > observations. > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > > > Cahndra Prakash > > > > > > Respected Shukla Ji & Tyagi Ji, > > > thanks for for answering my queries. > > > My qerries are in Bold, Tyagi ji Views & yours Endorsement in > normal text > > > and only yours View in Italic Blue. " > > > I try to put my point view in these factors: Mine is in red > > > > > > Sh.Tyagi's View > > > I have tried to answer your questions in the same order you had > > > posed them. > > > I am carrying the debate forward, and if Pt. Lalkitabee ji so > wishes > > > he can also join in later, may be to add to what I have said. > > > > > > Here are the answers to your queries > > > * > > > > > > *1. In Khana No. 4 it is written that if native has Faaliz or > having > > > disease the items of saturn will help him.* > > > [ 1 ] Yes, only if the Saturn is Nek. > > > *Does not matter in case of Saturn in House no 4, Please refer > page 210 > > > line 7 of 1942.* > > > > > > *[ It is not said in line # 7. It is said in line #10-11 " uska > jism > > > nakara hone ke waqt shani ki cheezon se sehat hogi " . The book > further > > > warns that such a person should not get involved in > `Kabootarbazee of > > > women " . * > > > > > > *The 1952 ed adds a few more conditions " sanp ka tel bechne se > lavaldi ka > > > sabot milega khwa aulad ke yog lakh uttam hon, isi trah hi > > > sharabnoshi,sanpon ke marvane, rat ke waqt makanon ki buniyad > rakhne ki > > > wajah se shani nakara kar liya jaya'. Which means that the > Saturn should not > > > be made into a malefic then only the Saturn will help. It was > in this > > > context I had said that the Saturn will help so long it is > benefic. > > > Therefore it matters whether the Saturn is Nek or Bud ]* > > > > > > *Lalkitabee** Uvaach** :-** Agar shani is khana main sirf nek > tabiyat ka > > > hee hota to " **Ab shani bura na hogaa. " ** is line ke baad > Pandit Ji > > > kuchh bhi nahi likhtey. lekin unhone uske > kharaab hone > > > ke kaaran bhi ginaaye hain > ** * > > > > > > > > > *2. Saturn is also described here as Khooni mallah. which > destroy mamoo > > > khandaan and Jaddi jaydaad.* > > > [ 2 ] No. This is not the result of the Saturn in the 4th per > > > se,this will be the result only if the moon is also in the 10th. > > > *Yes, it is due to saturn presence in 4th and also due to moon > effect for > > > being in 10th. * > > > *3. Shani Kisi bhee halat mein tevay waalay kaa bura nahin > karega ** > > > in my view this is the house where saturn has the quality where > he help > > > the native in distress/disease even his bite can help the faliz > patient to > > > stand and run. Let us apply the rules in saturn 4 illustrated in > your reply. > > > Saturn being in 4th is having the realtionship with Moon. as per > the above > > > lines in red it become Neech Masnoyi ketu. Saturn has the deep > enimity with > > > Sun and ketu halves the sun . Now the point came in mind* > > > [ 3 ] Yes, only if the Saturn is Nek. Therefore to say that ` > shani > > > kisi bhi halat mein bura nahi karega ` is wrong. > > > *Please read my answer to point 1or refer page 210** line 7 of > 1942.* > > > > > > > > > > > > *[ My objection was to your statement " kisi bhi halat mein " > which means > > > under all circumstances. The conditions I have mentioned above > make the > > > role of Shani in the 4th subject to certain conditions, > therefore it is > > > not correct to say ` kisi bhi halat mein' ]* > > > > > > * **Lalkitabee** Uvaach** :- Nothing to say –even a primary > student also > > > can understand this sentence . > > > .** * > > > > > > > > > I hope you understand the difference of being with or in the > > > companionship of as against being related through a placement. > > > Simply because the Saturn is in the 4th house, it can not be > taken > > > to mean that it is WITH the Moon. A masnuyee exalted Ketu can > not be > > > formed unless the Saturn and the Moon are physically together. > > > Masnuyee planet is not formed merely by a planet being placed in > a > > > house. > > > *As per the properties of houses the effect of owner always be > there in > > > his pakka house.*. > > > > > > > > > > > > *[ But that effect does not get transformed into a masnuyee > planet ]* > > > > > > * **Lalkitabee** Uvaach** :- I agree with Tyagi ji & adding more > > > that---Masnuyee haalat main do grahon ke talluq ke saath saath > hamain yah > > > nazariya bhi nahi bhoolnaa chahiye ki har grah ke do zuzb > hote hain > > > . > > > ** * > > > > > > > > > *4. How Neech ketu or saturn help his deep enemy Sun in > distress .* > > > [ 4 ] The masnuyee debilitated ketu is not formed, therefore the > > > premise you have made is in fructuous. > > > *I think each & every part is crystal clear with the efforts of > Mr. Tyagi > > > . Have u included Sun incidently in point no. 3 & 4 in ur mail ? > Plz correct > > > my understanding. > > > **your views to my querry (How saturn help his deep enemy Sun in > distress > > > ) are left inadvertantly.. No I have not included Sun > incidentaly in my > > > mail. * > > > > > > *Lalkitabee** Uvaach** :- u r misleading here this discussion, > All > > > discussion is around the shani = ketu masnuyee > (shani+chandar or shani > > > + shukkar). where u saw sun in these combinations.So keep > the track, > > > otherwise u shud explain correlation of sun in this > context 1st of > > > > all . .** * > > > > > > > > > > > > *5. Saturn & Moon is not a good combination. Sat+Moon in 4 ( it > may be > > > wrong) may cause Purdard Maut. is it not conflicting with the > above.* > > > [ 5 ] This could be true only if the natal Moon is also placed > > > along with the Saturn in the 4th house. > > > yes, you repeated what i have written. > > > > > > > > > *6. Venus is no where realted to the khana 4 hence making of > good shani or > > > uccha ketu is ruled out. Is the theory of involvement of venus > here is > > > right.* > > > [ 6 ] Pt. Lalkitabee ji never said that Venus is associated with > > > 4th house. > > > And also never forget that Saturn can be Nek as such without the > > > help of any other planet. Therefore your presumption that Saturn > > > will act beneficially only if it is helped by venus is misplaced. > > > *It is not my point of view, it is the view of one of our friend > in > > > earlier mails and Shukla ji also refered towards it.* > > > > > > *Lalkitabee** Uvaach** :-** Main Ratoon Raam Raam, Tum suno > Maraa Maraa. > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > *Shukla Ji never refered shukra ,he was referring to the > OOOOONCH KETU > > > (GANESH)** which has the ZUZB of Shukkar.** > > > .* > > > > > > > > > Saturn could be Nek in any house of the kundali if a person > leads a > > > moral life, doesn't drink, doesn't eat meat, respects the > servants > > > and is a good paymaster… and so on. Similarly it can be very > malefic > > > even if it is placed in the 10th house [ his own] or the 7th > house [ > > > of exlatation], if the Jatak turn it malefic through his own > actions. > > > *this is not a generic rule. Some times Saturn malefic > activities are > > > fruitful to native. as in case of Saturn in House 4. The wine > may help the > > > native to cure his disease.* > > > > > > *[ I hope you know the difference of liquor as a medicine and > drinking > > > liquor [ sharab noshi] as a malefic activity of Saturn. What > pundit ji here > > > meant is liquor as a medicine. Therefore to say that ` > sometimes Saturn > > > malefic activities are fruitful for the native is wrong. > Activities of > > > malefic Saturn can never be beneficial for the Jatak]* > > > > > > *Lalkitabee** Uvaach** :- ** kalsi ji read carefully---** > **sharabnoshi,sanpon > > > ke marvane, rat ke waqt makanon ki buniyad rakhne ki wajah se > shani nakara > > > kar liya jaya'. Matlab saaf hai ki sharabi ban jaane par > shani nakaraa > > > hee saabit hogaa chahey vah khana 4 main hee kyon na ho. > Lekin mandi > > > sehat ke samay sharab medicine ki tarah (bakaayda > salaah se aur > > > ek maap ya paimayish ke mutabik) lenaa shafaa degi. Mere > khyaal se > > > pandit ji ne DAVAA- DAARU ke farq ko bakaaydaa samjhaa > diyaa hai. > > > Fir bhi aap ** " **Saturn in House 4. The wine may help the > native to > > > cure his disease. " ** likh rahey hain tou aap sharaab ko kis > tarah se > > > peene ki baat kar rahey hain, aap khud hee samjhaa dain* > > > > > > > > > Secondly, a masnuyee planet is not formed by mere association [ > in > > > the sense you have used]. For a masnuyee planet to get formed, > there > > > have to be two natal planets. If and when a Venus is in the > company > > > of a Saturn, it will also result in a masnuyee exalted Ketu. > > > Therefore while delineating the results one will have to study > > > Venus, Saturn and also the two together in the form of masnuyee > > > exalted Ketu. Therefore one will have to examine not two planets > but > > > will have to keep in mind a third planet also formed as a result > of > > > them two together. > > > *yes You are right.* > > > *7. Regarding saturn 8 remedy of square silver piece.it is also > used for > > > Rahu 8. Your point that it is the Moon relation with saturn in > 8th give clue > > > is somthing conflicting. I feel that there may be some other > reasons for > > > using sqaure silver piece. if moon involvement is there in Khana* > > > [ 7 ] Yes, the square piece of silver is also advised to find out > > > the nature of rahu. But the indications one would be looking for > > > will be different than when finding out the nature of Saturn > with a > > > square piece of silver. In the case of the rahu it is the Mahout > [ > > > elephant driver] which will speak. The same analogy does not hold > > > good for Saturn in the 8th. > > > *U asked in point 7:- " if moon involvement is there in Khana 8 > then there > > > will be no need of square piece only Silver shall be > sufficient. " I think u > > > didnt read my mail carefuly. See my assert according to my > previous mail in > > > RED:-- > > > Ooper likhe gaye example main maine abhi sirf chandi ko madde- > > > nazar kartey huve spasht kiya hai.Lekin " CHANDI KA CHAUKOR " apne > aap > > > main ek alag hee nazariya hai .Ise fir kabhi spasht karne ki > koshish > > > karoongaa .* > > > It is remedy given in the book. . Saturn in 8th if single, will > not give > > > bad results. > > > Pandit Ji Said that " Chander ka upaya Karney se Shani Apne Head > quarter se bahar ...... " as per your > > > views moons association with saturn form Ketu Neech.then why we > associate > > > moon there to form a neech ketu. Why square why not round. > > > > > > *Lalkitabee** Uvaach** :-** Again im saying my previous > sentence**---* " CHANDI > > > KA CHAUKOR " apne aap main ek alag hee nazariya hai .Ise fir > kabhi spasht > > > karne ki koshish karoongaa . > > > > > > * 8 then there will be no need of square piece only Silver shall > be > > > sufficient.* > > > [ 8 ] Pandit ji has advised to keep a square piece of silver to > > > assess the nature of Saturn. He doesn't explain it any further. > It > > > is left to the reader to make out for himself. Suppose you have > to > > > find out the nature of Saturn through a square piece of silver : > > > > > > How would you go about it? > > > How would you determine the nature of the Saturn? > > > How will the square piece of silver indicate the nature of the > > > Saturn? > > > What indications would you be looking for before declaring Saturn > > > malefic or benefic? > > > > > > > > > > > > *[ You have not answered my above mentioned queries. Could you > please > > > answer them for me?]* > > > > > > I assume what Pt Lalkitabee ji implies is that with Saturn in the > > > 8th if the Jatak is given a square piece of silver to keep with > him, > > > and if the jatak experiences problem with his joints, spine, > feet, > > > ears or his son [ nishaniyan of neech Ketu ] then it can be > assumed > > > that the Saturn is malefic. If none of these indications are > found > > > then the Saturn can be declared as nek. > > > *Planet shows it melefic or benefic nature through its > articles/live > > > things. It is a generic rule. If Saturn is melefic then the > saturn related > > > ashiyaan give bad results. If one has no problem regarding > Saturn then why > > > this remedy is required.If saturn gives melefic result then this > remedy of > > > no use. in my views There might be some hidden message in this > remedy. Tyagi > > > Ji 's above queries need to be answered by experts.* > > > > > > > > > > > > *[ In the first place you are mistaken to think that keeping > the silver > > > piece is an upaya. No it is not an upaya. The silver piece is a > touchstone ` > > > kasauti' to find out the " neeyat and Tabiyat " of Saturn. If the > `neeyat and > > > tabiyat' of Saturn is already evident then one does not need to > keep a > > > square piece of silver. If the `neeyat and tabiyat' is benefic, > no upaya is > > > needed, if it is malefic then the upaya will be needed.* > > > > > > *Therefore silver piece is used as a catalyst and not as an > upaya, a > > > catalyst which will uncover the secret of shani ] > > > **Lalkitabee** Uvaach** :-Kalsi ji ,many times Saturn doesn't > give bad > > > results at only its own ASHIYAAS. " KURBAANI KE BAKREY " ka > chapter kyon > > > zaayaa kar rahey ho Bandhuuuuuu..** > > > Now i will love to hear from u about this square piece of silver > 1st of > > > all. So plz explain ur criteria bcoz u do not seem novice > scholar of > > > lalkitab* > > > *Thanks for the compliments. I am still a novice in this field. > I do not > > > find myself to be a fit case to prescribe remedies to > > > other. I expect the experts who prescribe these medicine to > others > > > may have correct answer. * > > > > > > * **[ Even as a novice you seem to have a good understanding. > That is > > > creditable ]* > > > > > > *Lalkitabee** Uvaach** :- " " " " " " " " " " Zahe-naseeb " " " " " " " Lekin > koyee novice > > > ya nausikhiyaa is tarikey se urdu ki kitaab ka page quote nahi > kartaa chahey > > > vah quote galat hee kyon na ho.Fir bhi meri purzor koshish > hogi ki > > > aap jo mujhse seekhnaaa ya janna chahtey hain main use > samjhaane main > > > kaamyaab ho jaun ..* > > > > > > > > > > > > , Chandra Prakash Tyagi > > > <cptyagi2007@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear kalsi ji, > > > > > > > > I have answered your comments on my observations within > brackets in bold > > > blue letters. > > > > > > > > I hope Pt. lalkitabee ji will also answer your comments on his > > > observations. > > > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > > > > > Cahndra Prakash > > > > > > > > Respected Shukla Ji & Tyagi Ji, > > > > thanks for for answering my queries. > > > > My qerries are in Bold, Tyagi ji Views & yours Endorsement in > normal > > > text and only yours View in Italic Blue. " > > > > I try to put my point view in these factors: Mine is in red > > > > > > > > Sh.Tyagi's View > > > > I have tried to answer your questions in the same order you had > > > > posed them. > > > > I am carrying the debate forward, and if Pt. Lalkitabee ji so > wishes > > > > he can also join in later, may be to add to what I have said. > > > > > > > > Here are the answers to your queries : > > > > 1. In Khana No. 4 it is written that if native has Faaliz or > having > > > disease the items of saturn will help him. > > > > [ 1 ] Yes, only if the Saturn is Nek. > > > > Does not matter in case of Saturn in House no 4, Please refer > page 210 > > > line 7 of 1942. > > > > > > > > > > > > [ It is not said in line # 7. It is said in line #10-11 " uska > jism > > > nakara hone ke waqt shani ki cheezon se sehat hogi " . The book > further warns > > > that such a person should not get involved in `Kabootarbazee of > women " . > > > > > > > > The 1952 ed adds a few more conditions " sanp ka tel bechne se > lavaldi > > > ka sabot milega khwa aulad ke yog lakh uttam hon, isi trah hi > > > sharabnoshi,sanpon ke marvane, rat ke waqt makanon ki buniyad > rakhne ki > > > wajah se shani nakara kar liya jaya'. Which means that the > Saturn should not > > > be made into a malefic then only the Saturn will help. It was in > this > > > context I had said that the Saturn will help so long it is > benefic. > > > Therefore it matters whether the Saturn is Nek or Bud ] > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Saturn is also described here as Khooni mallah. which > destroy mamoo > > > khandaan and Jaddi jaydaad. > > > > [ 2 ] No. This is not the result of the Saturn in the 4th per > > > > se,this will be the result only if the moon is also in the > 10th. > > > > Yes, it is due to saturn presence in 4th and also due to moon > effect for > > > being in 10th. > > > > 3. Shani Kisi bhee halat mein tevay waalay kaa bura nahin > karega > > > > in my view this is the house where saturn has the quality > where he help > > > the native in distress/disease even his bite can help the faliz > patient to > > > stand and run. Let us apply the rules in saturn 4 illustrated in > your reply. > > > Saturn being in 4th is having the realtionship with Moon. as per > the above > > > lines in red it become Neech Masnoyi ketu. Saturn has the deep > enimity with > > > Sun and ketu halves the sun . Now the point came in mind > > > > [ 3 ] Yes, only if the Saturn is Nek. Therefore to say that ` > shani > > > > kisi bhi halat mein bura nahi karega ` is wrong. > > > > Please read my answer to point 1or refer page 210 line 7 of > 1942. > > > > > > > > [ My objection was to your statement " kisi bhi halat mein " > which means > > > under all circumstances. The conditions I have mentioned above > make the role > > > of Shani in the 4th subject to certain conditions, therefore it > is not > > > correct to say ` kisi bhi halat mein' ] > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope you understand the difference of being with or in the > > > > companionship of as against being related through a placement. > > > > Simply because the Saturn is in the 4th house, it can not be > taken > > > > to mean that it is WITH the Moon. A masnuyee exalted Ketu can > not be > > > > formed unless the Saturn and the Moon are physically together. > > > > Masnuyee planet is not formed merely by a planet being placed > in a > > > > house. > > > > As per the properties of houses the effect of owner always be > there in > > > his pakka house.. > > > > > > > > [ But that effect does not get transformed into a masnuyee > planet ] > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. How Neech ketu or saturn help his deep enemy Sun in > distress . > > > > [ 4 ] The masnuyee debilitated ketu is not formed, therefore > the > > > > premise you have made is in fructuous. > > > > I think each & every part is crystal clear with the efforts of > Mr. Tyagi > > > . Have u included Sun incidently in point no. 3 & 4 in ur mail ? > Plz correct > > > my understanding. > > > > your views to my querry (How saturn help his deep enemy Sun in > distress > > > ) are left inadvertantly.. No I have not included Sun > incidentaly in my > > > mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5. Saturn & Moon is not a good combination. Sat+Moon in 4 ( it > may be > > > wrong) may cause Purdard Maut. is it not conflicting with the > above. > > > > [ 5 ] This could be true only if the natal Moon is also placed > > > > along with the Saturn in the 4th house. > > > > yes, you repeated what i have written. > > > > > > > > > > > > 6. Venus is no where realted to the khana 4 hence making of > good shani > > > or uccha ketu is ruled out. Is the theory of involvement of > venus here is > > > right. > > > > [ 6 ] Pt. Lalkitabee ji never said that Venus is associated > with > > > > 4th house. > > > > And also never forget that Saturn can be Nek as such without > the > > > > help of any other planet. Therefore your presumption that > Saturn > > > > will act beneficially only if it is helped by venus is > misplaced. > > > > It is not my point of view, it is the view of one of our > friend in > > > earlier mails and Shukla ji also refered towards it. . > > > > > > > > Saturn could be Nek in any house of the kundali if a person > leads a > > > > moral life, doesn't drink, doesn't eat meat, respects the > servants > > > > and is a good paymaster… and so on. Similarly it can be very > malefic > > > > even if it is placed in the 10th house [ his own] or the 7th > house [ > > > > of exlatation], if the Jatak turn it malefic through his own > actions. > > > > this is not a generic rule. Some times Saturn malefic > activities are > > > fruitful to native. as in case of Saturn in House 4. The wine > may help the > > > native to cure his disease. > > > > > > > > > > > > [ I hope you know the difference of liquor as a medicine and > drinking > > > liquor [ sharab noshi] as a malefic activity of Saturn. What > pundit ji here > > > meant is liquor as a medicine. Therefore to say that ` sometimes > Saturn > > > malefic activities are fruitful for the native is wrong. > Activities of > > > malefic Saturn can never be beneficial for the Jatak] > > > > > > > > > > > > Secondly, a masnuyee planet is not formed by mere association > [ in > > > > the sense you have used]. For a masnuyee planet to get formed, > there > > > > have to be two natal planets. If and when a Venus is in the > company > > > > of a Saturn, it will also result in a masnuyee exalted Ketu. > > > > Therefore while delineating the results one will have to study > > > > Venus, Saturn and also the two together in the form of masnuyee > > > > exalted Ketu. Therefore one will have to examine not two > planets but > > > > will have to keep in mind a third planet also formed as a > result of > > > > them two together. > > > > yes You are right. > > > > 7. Regarding saturn 8 remedy of square silver piece.it is also > used for > > > Rahu 8. Your point that it is the Moon relation with saturn in > 8th give clue > > > is somthing conflicting. I feel that there may be some other > reasons for > > > using sqaure silver piece. if moon involvement is there in Khana > > > > [ 7 ] Yes, the square piece of silver is also advised to find > out > > > > the nature of rahu. But the indications one would be looking > for > > > > will be different than when finding out the nature of Saturn > with a > > > > square piece of silver. In the case of the rahu it is the > Mahout [ > > > > elephant driver] which will speak. The same analogy does not > hold > > > > good for Saturn in the 8th. > > > > U asked in point 7:- " if moon involvement is there in Khana 8 > then > > > there will be no need of square piece only Silver shall be > sufficient. " I > > > think u didnt read my mail carefuly. See my assert according to > my previous > > > mail in RED:-- > > > > Ooper likhe gaye example main maine abhi sirf chandi ko madde- > > > > nazar kartey huve spasht kiya hai.Lekin " CHANDI KA CHAUKOR " > apne aap > > > > main ek alag hee nazariya hai .Ise fir kabhi spasht karne ki > koshish > > > > karoongaa . > > > > It is remedy given in the book. . Saturn in 8th if single, > will not give > > > bad results. Pandit Ji Said that " Chander ka upaya Karney se > Shani Apne > > > Head quarter se bahar ...... " as per your views moons > association with > > > saturn form Ketu Neech.then why we associate moon there to form > a neech > > > ketu. Why square why not round. > > > > 8 then there will be no need of square piece only Silver shall > be > > > sufficient. > > > > [ 8 ] Pandit ji has advised to keep a square piece of silver to > > > > assess the nature of Saturn. He doesn't explain it any > further. It > > > > is left to the reader to make out for himself. Suppose you > have to > > > > find out the nature of Saturn through a square piece of > silver : > > > > > > > > How would you go about it? > > > > How would you determine the nature of the Saturn? > > > > How will the square piece of silver indicate the nature of the > > > > Saturn? > > > > What indications would you be looking for before declaring > Saturn > > > > malefic or benefic? > > > > > > > > [ You have not answered my above mentioned queries. Could you > please > > > answer them for me?] > > > > > > > > I assume what Pt Lalkitabee ji implies is that with Saturn in > the > > > > 8th if the Jatak is given a square piece of silver to keep > with him, > > > > and if the jatak experiences problem with his joints, spine, > feet, > > > > ears or his son [ nishaniyan of neech Ketu ] then it can be > assumed > > > > that the Saturn is malefic. If none of these indications are > found > > > > then the Saturn can be declared as nek. > > > > Planet shows it melefic or benefic nature through its > articles/live > > > things. It is a generic rule. If Saturn is melefic then the > saturn related > > > ashiyaan give bad results. If one has no problem regarding > Saturn then why > > > this remedy is required.If saturn gives melefic result then this > remedy of > > > no use. in my views There might be some hidden message in this > remedy. Tyagi > > > Ji 's above queries need to be answered by experts. > > > > > > > > [ In the first place you are mistaken to think that keeping > the silver > > > piece is an upaya. No it is not an upaya. The silver piece is a > touchstone ` > > > kasauti' to find out the " neeyat and Tabiyat " of Saturn. If the > `neeyat and > > > tabiyat' of Saturn is already evident then one does not need to > keep a > > > square piece of silver. If the `neeyat and tabiyat' is benefic, > no upaya is > > > needed, if it is malefic then the upaya will be needed. > > > > Therefore silver piece is used as a catalyst and not as an > upaya, a > > > catalyst which will uncover the secret of shani ] > > > > > > > > Now i will love to hear from u about this square piece of > silver 1st of > > > all. So plz explain ur criteria bcoz u do not seem novice > scholar of > > > lalkitab > > > > Thanks for the compliments. I am still a novice in this field. > I do not > > > find myself to be a fit case to prescribe remedies to other. I > expect the > > > experts who prescribe these medicine to others may have correct > answer. > > > > > > > > [ Even as a novice you seem to have a good understanding. That > is > > > creditable ] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get the freedom to save as many mails as you wish. Click here > to know > > > how. > > > > > > > > > > > > Save all your chat conversations. Find them online. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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