Attention - Yograj Prabhakar Ji About Shani - KALSI

[Guest guest]

Dear Lalkitabee ji,

 

Yes,it was a typo. I did mean debilitated Ketu.

Thank you for correcting it.

 

Regards,

 

Chandra Prakash

 

 

 

 

 

 

, " lalkitabee "

<lalkitabee wrote:

>

> Respected Tyagi Ji

> Im correcting ur line in point no 3. Incidently u used the word

> " Exalted " .The line is--- " A masnuyee exalted Ketu can not be formed

> unless the Saturn and the Moon are physically together. "

> Yahaan par Tyagi ji aapka maksad " NEECH KETU " raha hoga

> ,ittefakan " exalted ketu " istemaal ho gaya.

> Now im coming to Kalsi ji

> Respected kalsi ji

> I think each & every part is crystal clear with the efforts of

Mr.

> Tyagi . Have u included Sun incidently in point no. 3 & 4 in ur

mail ?

> Plz correct my understanding.

>

> U asked in point 7:- " if moon involvement is there in Khana 8 then

> there will be no need of square piece only Silver shall be

sufficient. "

>

> I think u didnt read my mail carefuly. See my assert according to

my

> previous mail in RED:--

> Ooper likhe gaye example main maine abhi sirf chandi ko madde-

> nazar kartey huve spasht kiya hai.Lekin " CHANDI KA CHAUKOR " apne

aap

> main ek alag hee nazariya hai .Ise fir kabhi spasht karne ki

koshish

> karoongaa .

> Now i will love to hear from u about this square piece of silver

1st

> of all. So plz explain ur criteria bcoz u do not seem novice

scholar of

> lalkitab.

>

> With Regards

>

> Pt.Lalkitabee

>

>

> , " Shivdev Kalsi "

> <shivdev.kalsi@> wrote:

> >

> > Respected Shukla Ji,

> > You have raised very important issue.you have shown a very

wonderfull

> way

> > of studying the book. Normally these lines are only read by us,

not

> > studied. I remember Pandit Ji has written somewhere in the books

that

> > saturn is badnaam not

> > bad.That

> > is why House no 11 is given to him where he in the presence of

Guru

> > give the decision in the destiny court.

> > The contents of the discussions raised some points in my mind.

These

> > may appear childish in nature. You are free to not to answer

these

> > points if you think so. I have reproduced your reply below

> >

> > * " **

> > khair meri samajh ke mutabik to Ketu ke 2 masnuyee halaat

> > hain:

> > chandar +shani = ketu (Neech)

> > & shukkar + shani = Ketu (oonch)

> >

> > Here neech ketu can never become Ganesh .Lekin shukkar ka talluq

hotey

> > hee yah shani oonch ketu ya GANESH ban jayegaa.bashartey ki

insaan

> > khud bhi shukkar (wife & cow) ki kadar karne wala hovey aur

achchhey

> > chal chalan ka ho.

> > ek example dekhiye-- " shani khana 8 ke liye pandit ji ne

> > likha hai ki chandi ka chaukor (Square) paas rakhne se shani ki

> > asaliyat ka pataa chal jayega. " Matalab yah ki jaise hee chandi

ka

> > saath hoga to shani agar " neech ketu swabhav " wala hua to ketu

ki

> > cheezon par thoda bahut buraa asar jahir kar dega. Agar aisa nahi

> > hua to ab yah NESH (Dang) se GANESH HOGA. Baat saaf hai ki

shukkar

> > ka talluq hogaa kyonki shukkar+shani = oonch ketu hota hai. "

> > **

> > *My points are

> > 1. In Khana No. 4 it is written that if native has Faaliz or

having

> > disease the items of saturn will help him.

> > 2. Saturn is also described here as Khooni mallah. which destroy

mamoo

> > khandaan and Jaddi jaydaad.

> > 3. Shani Kisi bhee halat mein tevay waalay kaa bura nahin karega

> > in my view this is the house where saturn has the quality where

he

> help the

> > native in distress/disease even his bite can help the faliz

> > patient to stand and run. Let us apply the rules in saturn 4

> > illustrated in your reply. Saturn being in 4th is having the

> > realtionship with Moon.

> > as per the above lines in red it become Neech Masnoyi ketu.

Saturn has

> the

> > deep enimity with Sun and ketu halves the sun . Now the point

came in

> mind

> > 4. How Neech ketu or saturn help his deep enemy Sun in distress .

> > 5. Saturn & Moon is not a good combination. Sat+Moon in 4 ( it

may be

> wrong)

> > may cause Purdard Maut. is it not conflicting with the above.

> > 6. Venus is no where realted to the khana 4 hence making of good

shani

> or

> > uccha ketu is ruled out. Is the theory of involvement of venus

here is

> > right.

> > 7. Regarding saturn 8 remedy of square silver piece.it is also

used

> for Rahu

> > 8. Your point that it is the Moon relation with saturn in 8th

give

> clue is

> > somthing conflicting. I feel that there may be some other

reasons for

> using

> > sqaure silver

> > piece. if moon involvement is there in Khana 8 then there will

be no

> > need of square piece only Silver shall be sufficient.

> >

> > Some rethinking is required for the findings made till date on

this

> issue.

> > I wish that the intelligent persons like you guide us better way

> > Yours

> > .

> > .

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > On 2/29/08, lalkitabee lalkitabee@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Respected Bhai Yograj

> > >

> > > Ab aap hee kahain ki jo IDIOM sirf shani ke liye istemaal kiya

gaya

> > > hai aur specially bracket main (DUNG) likh diya gaya hai ,kya

use

> > > sirf ek IDIOM hee maan lena munasib hoga, jabki aap khud hee

is baat

> > > ko manjoori de rahey hain ki " Sarpdansh ka taalluq sirf Shani

ke hi

> > > ek karak Saanp se muttalliqa maana gaya hai " Is se yah baat

to saaf

> > > ho hee jaati hai ki yah IDIOM sirf ek IDIOM nahee hai ,yah to

> > > GAAGAR MAIN SAAGAR HAI.(Ab aapko yah baat to manjoor karni hee

hogi

> )

> > > Vaise bhi main shani ke kisi khaas khana no. main kabiz

> > > hone ya na hone ka zikra nahi kar rahaa hoon.Main to sirf aur

sirf

> > > shani ki baat kar rahaa hoon aur us ke NESH SE GANESH ya Venom

to

> > > Antidote hone par hee disscuss kar rahaa hoon.Ab jo aap likh

rahey

> > > hain ki " Khana no.4 mein Shani ka maujood hona ghaliban

masnooyi

> > > ketu ki jaanib bhi ishara karta hai (Chandar+Shani=Masnooyi

Ketu).

> > > agar aapki baat ko thodi der ke liye man bhi liyaa jaaye to

Yah to

> > > sirf MASNUYEE KETU nahi balki MASNUYEE NEECH KETU ban gaya ,jo

ki

> > > kabhi bhi GANESH nahi ho sakta.

> > > Rahi baat process ki-- Main to yahi

> > > kahoongaa ki chaahey pristhitiyon ki vajah se process ho ya

> > > pristhitiyaan banaakar process kiyaa jaaye ,dono hee tarah se

> > > process to lazim hai.Usee process ke liye as chemicals (It may

be

> > > planet or ashiya) kyaa ho saktey hain, yahi to main aapse pooch

> > > rahaa hoon.

> > > khair meri samajh ke mutabik to Ketu ke 2 masnuyee halaat

> > > hain:

> > > chandar +shani = ketu (Neech)

> > > & shukkar + shani = Ketu (oonch)

> > >

> > > Here neech ketu can never become Ganesh .Lekin shukkar ka

talluq

> hotey

> > > hee yah shani oonch ketu ya GANESH ban jayegaa.bashartey ki

insaan

> > > khud bhi shukkar (wife & cow) ki kadar karne wala hovey aur

achchhey

> > > chal chalan ka ho.

> > > ek example dekhiye-- " shani khana 8 ke liye pandit ji ne

> > > likha hai ki chandi ka chaukor (Square) paas rakhne se shani ki

> > > asaliyat ka pataa chal jayega. " Matalab yah ki jaise hee

chandi ka

> > > saath hoga to shani agar " neech ketu swabhav " wala hua to

ketu ki

> > > cheezon par thoda bahut buraa asar jahir kar dega. Agar aisa

nahi

> > > hua to ab yah NESH (Dang) se GANESH HOGA. Baat saaf hai ki

shukkar

> > > ka talluq hogaa kyonki shukkar+shani = oonch ketu hota hai.

> > > Yahi baat pandit ji ne bhi is IDIOM main spasht kee

> > > hai . Ooper likhe gaye example main maine abhi sirf chandi ko

madde-

> > > nazar kartey huve spasht kiya hai.Lekin " CHANDI KA CHAUKOR "

apne aap

> > > main ek alag hee nazariya hai .Ise fir kabhi spasht karne ki

koshish

> > > karoongaa .

> > >

> > > With Regards

> > >

> > > Pt.Lalkitabee

> > >

> > > V.Shukla--- In

> <%

40.co\

> m>,

> > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > > yr_prabhakar@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Respected Vipin Shukla Sahib,

> > > >

> > > > Meri nacheez samajh ke mutaboq toh yeh muhavra sirf aur sirf

Shani

> > > maharaj par hi maujoo baithtaa hai. kyon ki Sarpdansh ka

taalluq

> > > sirf Shani ke hi ek karak Saanp se muttalliqa maana gaya hai,

agar

> > > koyi aur Greh bhi sarpdansh maarta ho to bara-e-meharbani

mujhe bhi

> > > bataney ki zehmat famayen.

> > > >

> > > > Ab agar iske doosrey " astrological " pehloo par ghaur karein

toh

> > > Nesh sey Ganesh hone se muraad Ketu ka wajood mein aa jaana hai

> > > maana ja sakta hai, to ki kaafi hadd tak jayaz bhi maloom hota

hai,

> > > Chandar ke ghar khana no. 4 mein Shani ka maujood hona ghaliban

> > > masnooyi ketu ki jaanib bhi ishara karta hai

(Chandar+Shani=Masnooyi

> > > Ketu). Magar sawal yeh hai ki kya yahan baat isi Ganesh (Ketu)

ki

> > > ho rahi hai?

> > > >

> > > > Apne aagey poocchha hai ki jis ko Nesh kaha gaya wo Ganesh

kaisey

> > > ban sakta hai, aur uska process kya hai. Ye poora maslah

dobara se

> > > apki nazar-e-saani ka talabgaar hai, kyon ki yahan par sawaal

> > > process ka to hai hi nahi, yahan par zikr Paristhiti ka hai, wo

> > > paristhti ki jahan zahar bhi zindgi dene ki kaifiyat ko ho

jaata

> > > hai. Is liye meri samjh mein toh ye hi aata hai ki is key pas-

e-

> > > manzar mein Paristhitian hi process ka kaam kar rahi hain. Yeh

> > > paristhitian bila shubaa mandi sehat ya beemeri se mutaaliqa

hai,

> > > jiska saaf-saaf zikr Saneechar khana no 4 mein kayi jagah darj

hai.

> > > >

> > > > Shani khana no. 4 ki do Misaalen dekar main pehle hi isey

vajeh

> > > karne ki koshish chuka hoon. Ek misaal aur apke hazoor mein

pesh

> > > karney ki himaqat kar raha hoon:

> > > >

> > > > " Mandee Sehat Ke Waqt Saanp Khud-Shraab-Tel/Saneechar ki

ashiya

> > > Yaani Zehreelee Nashey Wali Ashiya Madad dengee. "

> > > > (LK-1952, Page-607,Line No.8).

> > > >

> > > > Ghaur se dekhne par pata chalega ki yahan par bhi zikr

> > > paristhition ka hi hai jo ki process ke taur par kaam kar rahi

hain.

> > > >

> > > > Respectfully

> > > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > lalkitabee lalkitabee@ wrote:

> > > Respected Bhai Yograj ji,

> > > >

> > > > That is ok ,but as IDIOM that phrase can be used for any

planet

> > > not

> > > > for only Shani. Yah baat to samajh aati hai ki ise IDIOM ki

tarah

> > > > istemaal kiya gaya hai.Lekin shani ke baarey main hee yah

baat

> > > kyoon

> > > > likhi gayee? Jise Nesh kaha gaya vah ganesh kaise ban saktaa

> > > > hai? Iska Lal Kitab system ke mutallik astrological reason

kyaa

> > > hoga?

> > > > Kya yah line sirf ek idiom ki tarah hee likh dee gayee hai ki

> > > shani

> > > > ek aisa jahar hai jo ki amrit bhi ban sakta hai? Yah baat to

> > > sabhi

> > > > planets par bhi lagoo ho sakti hai sirf shani par

> > > > nahin. ,kyonki sabhi planets Lal Kitab ke mutabik NEK aur

BAD ki

> > > tafseel main bandhey huye hain

> > > >

> > > > Doosri taraf -Jahar chahey koyee bhi ho ,uske amrit jaisa

banne

> > > > ke liye koyee to process honaa chahiye, uske bina to kabhi

bhi

> > > koyee

> > > > bhi jahar amrit nahi ban sakta.

> > > >

> > > > Therefore:

> > > > [ a ] How NESH (DUNG) can get transformed into GANESH?

> > > > [ b ] What is the process?

> > > >

> > > > If u know share with us plz.

> > > >

> > > > With Regards

> > > >

> > > > Pt.Lalkitabee

> > > > (V.Shukla)

> > > >

> > > > --- In

> <%

40.co\

> m>,

> > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > > > <yr_prabhakar@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Respected Pt. Shukla Sahib,

> > > > >

> > > > > Like " Kaag Sey Hans Ho Jaana " , " Nesh Se Ganesh Hona " too

is a

> > > > popular idiom †" and this certainly is not " my verdict " , it

> is -

> > > as

> > > > it is.

> > > > >

> > > > > Now your question, why Pundit jee used the Word Dung in

> > > brackets?

> > > > Your goodself has already answered this question by

enlightening

> > > us

> > > > that Nesh means sting. If Nesh means sting in Urdu and

Persian,

> > > then

> > > > the matter is crystal clear, Pundit ji unquestionably place

the

> > > word

> > > > in brackets to make it straightforward for a kam-Aqal reader

like

> > > me

> > > > to understand the contextual meanings of Nesh. Shukla Sahib,

this

> > > is

> > > > not the solitary case where pundit ji used this bracket

> > > technique;

> > > > you can find scores of such examples in Lal Kitab.

> > > > >

> > > > > Iqbal bhai also very correctly pointed out that venom can

also

> > > be

> > > > used as antidote. Probably Pundit ji too has indicated

towards

> > > the

> > > > identical feature.

> > > > >

> > > > > Respectfully

> > > > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > > > >

> > > > > lalkitabee <lalkitabee@> wrote:

> > > > Thanx Yograj Bhai

> > > > > Aapne bilkul theek kahaa yaani ashubh se shubh ho ,As per

ur

> > > > verdict

> > > > > NESH SE GANESH HO is a popular Idiom.

> > > > >

> > > > > lekin aise main jabki yah popular IDIOM hai to Pujya

Pandit Ji

> > > > > ne isi IDIOM ka istemaal kartey huye Bracket main DANG

> > > = " Sting "

> > > > > kyon likha? Jabki vah saaf likh saktey they ki bad se nek

> > > ho.Main

> > > > > yah bhi saaf kar dena chahtaa hoon ki NESH ka meaning Urdu

aur

> > > > > Parsian dono main DANG= Sting hee liyaa gaya hai aur

Pandit ji

> > > ne

> > > > > usi meaning ko bracket main bhi likha hai.Akhir ek popular

> > > Idiom

> > > > > jiska matalab hee yahi hai ki " manhoos se shubh hove " ko

> > > > samjhaane ke liye beech main Pandit ji ne specialy bracket

main

> > > > DANG = Sting kyon likha? Kyonki popular Idioms ko samajhne ke

> > > lihaaz

> > > > se aisa likhna kuchh ajeeb sa nahi lagtaa kyaa?

> > > > >

> > > > > Yograj ji & Varun ji & other experts plz note my querry as

a

> > > > > research job & we will reach at a result soon with the

help of

> > > > all

> > > > > of u.

> > > > >

> > > > > Expecting ur reply Yograj ji.

> > > > >

> > > > > With Regards

> > > > >

> > > > > Pt.Lalkitabee

> > > > > V.Shukla

> > > > > www.lalkitabee.com

> > > > >

> > > > > --- In

> <%

40.co\

> m>,

> > > " varun_trvd "

> > > > > <varun_trvd@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Respected Pt. Yograj ji,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thank you for having explained the line. It has been a

great

> > > > help.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The word 'NESH' means a sting [ dank ]but in the local

> > > common

> > > > > > saying " nesh se ganesh hua' the word 'nesh' also

appears to

> > > be

> > > > a

> > > > > > colloquial form of the Hindi dialect word ' NESHTHA'

meaning

> > > > > ashubh.

> > > > > > Either way it makes sense.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It is not only in the Lal Kitab but in the Vedic

astrology

> > > also

> > > > > the

> > > > > > Saturn is considered as the most benevolent giver if a

jatak

> > > > leads

> > > > > a

> > > > > > life of morality. It is said that " shani jaisa dataa koi

aur

> > > > grah

> > > > > > nahi hai " , some thing similar to what the Lal Kitab terms

> > > > > as " qalam

> > > > > > vidhata "

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > With lots of respect,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --- In

> <%

40.co\

> m>,

> > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > > > > > <yr_prabhakar@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Respected Shukla Sahib jee,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > First of all, The correct word is NESH (Manhoos/Ashubh)

> > > not

> > > > > NEESH.

> > > > > > > Actually " Nesh sey Ganesh " is a popular idiom. Nesh

means

> > > > > Manhoos

> > > > > > or Ashubh and Ganesh means Shubh in this context. It

loosely

> > > > means

> > > > > > Ashubh sey Shubh ho Jana.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > As far as the the word " Dang " (Sarp-Dansh) is

concerned it

> > > is

> > > > > > referred to the Sting or venom or negativity of Shani.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Now the question is how come the Nesh (Dang) can

becomes

> > > > Ganesh

> > > > > > (Shubh)? Firstly, this actually is an eye opener for

those

> > > who

> > > > > think

> > > > > > Shani is only a Paapi or a cruel planet, it can be a life

> > > giver

> > > > > too

> > > > > > as mentioned in the Lal Kitab.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Secondly, I think probably this (Nesh sey Gansh) is an

> > > > > indication

> > > > > > towards the nature of Shani in a particular

> > > condition/situation

> > > > > > where even the venom can work as a life saver..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Please see Saneechar khana number 4 where it is clearly

> > > > > mentioned:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > " Jism Nakaraah honey ke waqt Saneechar kee cheezon se

> > > sehat

> > > > > > hogi... "

> > > > > > > (LK-1942 Page 210 line no.11)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > " ...Agar adhrang Vagairah sey nakaraah hokar murdey ki

> > > tarah

> > > > > > zameen par gir jawey toh saanp khud aakar usey DANG maar

kar

> > > > uska

> > > > > > adhrang hatakar tandrust balki murdey se bhi zinda kar

dega.

> > > > Sirf

> > > > > > saneechar ki mutaliqa ashiya sey mandee sehat mein

Shafaah

> > > > > > hogi...... "

> > > > > > > (LK-1952, Page number 606, line No. 4-6)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It is very much clear from the above examples ki kayi

baar

> > > > > > Sarpdansh bhi jeevan- dayee ho sakta hai. Shayad isi

taraf

> > > > Pundit

> > > > > ji

> > > > > > kaishara hai.Please correct me if I am wrong.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Respectfully

> > > > > > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > lalkitabee <lalkitabee@>

> > > wrote:

> > > > > > Respected Bhai Yograj Ji

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I was looking about saturn in urdu edition at page

> > > > no.201.There

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > written like ---NEESH (DENG) SE GANESH HOYE.Plz clear

> > > it ,Im

> > > > > > unable to

> > > > > > > read it,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > plz tell me what the line reads & what is its

> > > meaning ,how

> > > > > does

> > > > > > it

> > > > > > > becomes GANESH.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > With Regards

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Pt.Lalkitabee

> > > > > > > V.Shukla

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

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> > Dr. Shiv Dev Kalsi,

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> >

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