LK discussion group Attention Yograj Prabhakar Ji About Shani

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Respected Pt. Shukla Sahib,Like “Kaag Sey Hans Ho Jaana”, "Nesh Se Ganesh Hona" too is a popular idiom – and this certainly is not "my verdict", it is - as it is. Now your question, why Pundit jee used the Word Dung in brackets? Your goodself has already answered this question by enlightening us that Nesh means sting. If Nesh means sting in Urdu and Persian, then the matter is crystal clear, Pundit ji unquestionably place the word in brackets to make it straightforward for a kam-Aqal reader like me to understand the contextual meanings of Nesh. Shukla Sahib, this is not the solitary case where pundit ji used this bracket technique; you can find scores of such examples in Lal Kitab. Iqbal bhai also very correctly pointed out that venom can also be used as antidote. Probably Pundit ji too has indicated towards the identical feature. RespectfullyYograj Prabhakarlalkitabee

<lalkitabee wrote: Thanx Yograj Bhai Aapne bilkul theek kahaa yaani ashubh se shubh ho ,As per ur verdict NESH SE GANESH HO is a popular Idiom. lekin aise main jabki yah popular IDIOM hai to Pujya Pandit Ji ne isi IDIOM ka istemaal kartey huye Bracket main DANG = "Sting" kyon likha? Jabki vah saaf likh saktey they ki bad se nek ho.Main yah bhi saaf kar dena chahtaa hoon ki NESH ka meaning Urdu aur Parsian dono main DANG= Sting hee liyaa gaya hai aur Pandit ji ne usi meaning ko bracket main bhi likha hai.Akhir ek popular

Idiom jiska matalab hee yahi hai ki " manhoos se shubh hove" ko samjhaane ke liye beech main Pandit ji ne specialy bracket main DANG = Sting kyon likha? Kyonki popular Idioms ko samajhne ke lihaaz se aisa likhna kuchh ajeeb sa nahi lagtaa kyaa? Yograj ji & Varun ji & other experts plz note my querry as a research job & we will reach at a result soon with the help of all of u. Expecting ur reply Yograj ji. With Regards Pt.Lalkitabee V.Shukla www.lalkitabee.com , "varun_trvd" <varun_trvd wrote: > > Respected Pt. Yograj ji, > > Thank you for having explained the line. It has been a great help. > > The word 'NESH' means a sting [ dank ]but in the local common > saying " nesh se ganesh hua' the word 'nesh'

also appears to be a > colloquial form of the Hindi dialect word ' NESHTHA' meaning ashubh. > Either way it makes sense. > > It is not only in the Lal Kitab but in the Vedic astrology also the > Saturn is considered as the most benevolent giver if a jatak leads a > life of morality. It is said that "shani jaisa dataa koi aur grah > nahi hai", some thing similar to what the Lal Kitab terms as "qalam > vidhata" > > > With lots of respect, > > Varun Trivedi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Yograj Prabhakar > <yr_prabhakar@> wrote: > > > > Respected Shukla Sahib

jee, > > > > First of all, The correct word is NESH (Manhoos/Ashubh) not NEESH. > > Actually "Nesh sey Ganesh" is a popular idiom. Nesh means Manhoos > or Ashubh and Ganesh means Shubh in this context. It loosely means > Ashubh sey Shubh ho Jana. > > > > As far as the the word "Dang" (Sarp-Dansh) is concerned it is > referred to the Sting or venom or negativity of Shani. > > > > Now the question is how come the Nesh (Dang) can becomes Ganesh > (Shubh)? Firstly, this actually is an eye opener for those who think > Shani is only a Paapi or a cruel planet, it can be a life giver too > as mentioned in the Lal Kitab. > > > > Secondly, I think probably this (Nesh sey Gansh) is an indication > towards the nature of Shani in a particular condition/situation > where even the venom can work as a life

saver.. > > > > Please see Saneechar khana number 4 where it is clearly mentioned: > > > > "Jism Nakaraah honey ke waqt Saneechar kee cheezon se sehat > hogi..." > > (LK-1942 Page 210 line no.11) > > > > "...Agar adhrang Vagairah sey nakaraah hokar murdey ki tarah > zameen par gir jawey toh saanp khud aakar usey DANG maar kar uska > adhrang hatakar tandrust balki murdey se bhi zinda kar dega. Sirf > saneechar ki mutaliqa ashiya sey mandee sehat mein Shafaah > hogi......" > > (LK-1952, Page number 606, line No. 4-6) > > > > It is very much clear from the above examples ki kayi baar > Sarpdansh bhi jeevan- dayee ho sakta hai. Shayad isi taraf Pundit ji > kaishara hai.Please correct me if I am wrong. > > > > Respectfully > > Yograj Prabhakar > > > >

> > lalkitabee <lalkitabee@> wrote: > Respected Bhai Yograj Ji > > > > I was looking about saturn in urdu edition at page no.201.There > is > > written like ---NEESH (DENG) SE GANESH HOYE.Plz clear it ,Im > unable to > > read it, > > > > plz tell me what the line reads & what is its meaning ,how does > it > > becomes GANESH. > > > > With Regards > > > > Pt.Lalkitabee > > V.Shukla > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with > Search. > > >

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Respected Shukla Ji,You have raised very important issue.you have shown a very wonderfull way of studying the book. Normally these lines are only read by us, not studied. I remember Pandit Ji has written somewhere in the books that saturn is badnaam not bad.That is why House no 11 is given to him where he in the presence of Guru give the decision in the destiny court.

The contents of the discussions raised some points in my mind. These may appear childish in nature. You are free to not to answer these points if you think so. I have reproduced your reply below

" khair meri samajh ke mutabik to Ketu ke 2 masnuyee halaat hain:chandar +shani = ketu (Neech) & shukkar + shani = Ketu (oonch)

Here neech ketu can never become Ganesh .Lekin shukkar ka talluq hotey hee yah shani oonch ketu ya GANESH ban jayegaa.bashartey ki insaan khud bhi shukkar (wife & cow) ki kadar karne wala hovey aur achchhey

chal chalan ka ho.ek example dekhiye-- " shani khana 8 ke liye pandit ji ne likha hai ki chandi ka chaukor (Square) paas rakhne se shani ki asaliyat ka pataa chal jayega. " Matalab yah ki jaise hee chandi ka

saath hoga to shani agar " neech ketu swabhav " wala hua to ketu ki cheezon par thoda bahut buraa asar jahir kar dega. Agar aisa nahi hua to ab yah NESH (Dang) se GANESH HOGA. Baat saaf hai ki shukkar

ka talluq hogaa kyonki shukkar+shani = oonch ketu hota hai. " My points are1. In Khana No. 4 it is written that if native has Faaliz or having disease the items of saturn will help him.

2. Saturn is also described here as Khooni mallah. which destroy mamoo khandaan and Jaddi jaydaad. 3. Shani Kisi bhee halat mein tevay waalay kaa bura nahin karega in my view this is the house where saturn has the quality where he help the native in distress/disease even his bite can help the faliz patient to stand and run. Let us apply the rules in saturn 4 illustrated in your reply. Saturn being in 4th is having the realtionship with Moon. as per the above lines in red it become Neech Masnoyi ketu. Saturn has the deep enimity with Sun and ketu halves the sun . Now the point came in mind

4. How Neech ketu or saturn help his deep enemy Sun in distress .5. Saturn & Moon is not a good combination. Sat+Moon in 4 ( it may be wrong) may cause Purdard Maut. is it not conflicting with the above.

6. Venus is no where realted to the khana 4 hence making of good shani or uccha ketu is ruled out. Is the theory of involvement of venus here is right.7. Regarding saturn 8 remedy of square silver piece.it is also used for Rahu 8. Your point that it is the Moon relation with saturn in 8th give clue is somthing conflicting. I feel that there may be some other reasons for using sqaure silver piece. if moon involvement is there in Khana 8 then there will be no need of square piece only Silver shall be sufficient.

Some rethinking is required for the findings made till date on this issue. I wish that the intelligent persons like you guide us better wayYours. .

On 2/29/08, lalkitabee <lalkitabee wrote:

Respected Bhai Yograj Ab aap hee kahain ki jo IDIOM sirf shani ke liye istemaal kiya gaya

hai aur specially bracket main (DUNG) likh diya gaya hai ,kya use sirf ek IDIOM hee maan lena munasib hoga, jabki aap khud hee is baat ko manjoori de rahey hain ki " Sarpdansh ka taalluq sirf Shani ke hi

ek karak Saanp se muttalliqa maana gaya hai " Is se yah baat to saaf ho hee jaati hai ki yah IDIOM sirf ek IDIOM nahee hai ,yah to GAAGAR MAIN SAAGAR HAI.(Ab aapko yah baat to manjoor karni hee hogi )

Vaise bhi main shani ke kisi khaas khana no. main kabiz hone ya na hone ka zikra nahi kar rahaa hoon.Main to sirf aur sirf shani ki baat kar rahaa hoon aur us ke NESH SE GANESH ya Venom to Antidote hone par hee disscuss kar rahaa hoon.Ab jo aap likh rahey

hain ki " Khana no.4 mein Shani ka maujood hona ghaliban masnooyi ketu ki jaanib bhi ishara karta hai (Chandar+Shani=Masnooyi Ketu). agar aapki baat ko thodi der ke liye man bhi liyaa jaaye to Yah to sirf MASNUYEE KETU nahi balki MASNUYEE NEECH KETU ban gaya ,jo ki

kabhi bhi GANESH nahi ho sakta. Rahi baat process ki-- Main to yahi kahoongaa ki chaahey pristhitiyon ki vajah se process ho ya pristhitiyaan banaakar process kiyaa jaaye ,dono hee tarah se

process to lazim hai.Usee process ke liye as chemicals (It may be planet or ashiya) kyaa ho saktey hain, yahi to main aapse pooch rahaa hoon. khair meri samajh ke mutabik to Ketu ke 2 masnuyee halaat

hain: chandar +shani = ketu (Neech) & shukkar + shani = Ketu (oonch) Here neech ketu can never become Ganesh .Lekin shukkar ka talluq hotey hee yah shani oonch ketu ya GANESH ban jayegaa.bashartey ki insaan

khud bhi shukkar (wife & cow) ki kadar karne wala hovey aur achchhey chal chalan ka ho. ek example dekhiye-- " shani khana 8 ke liye pandit ji ne likha hai ki chandi ka chaukor (Square) paas rakhne se shani ki

asaliyat ka pataa chal jayega. " Matalab yah ki jaise hee chandi ka saath hoga to shani agar " neech ketu swabhav " wala hua to ketu ki cheezon par thoda bahut buraa asar jahir kar dega. Agar aisa nahi

hua to ab yah NESH (Dang) se GANESH HOGA. Baat saaf hai ki shukkar ka talluq hogaa kyonki shukkar+shani = oonch ketu hota hai. Yahi baat pandit ji ne bhi is IDIOM main spasht kee hai . Ooper likhe gaye example main maine abhi sirf chandi ko madde-

nazar kartey huve spasht kiya hai.Lekin " CHANDI KA CHAUKOR " apne aap main ek alag hee nazariya hai .Ise fir kabhi spasht karne ki koshish karoongaa . With Regards Pt.Lalkitabee

V.Shukla , Yograj Prabhakar <yr_prabhakar wrote:

> > Respected Vipin Shukla Sahib, > > Meri nacheez samajh ke mutaboq toh yeh muhavra sirf aur sirf Shani maharaj par hi maujoo baithtaa hai. kyon ki Sarpdansh ka taalluq sirf Shani ke hi ek karak Saanp se muttalliqa maana gaya hai, agar

koyi aur Greh bhi sarpdansh maarta ho to bara-e-meharbani mujhe bhi bataney ki zehmat famayen. > > Ab agar iske doosrey " astrological " pehloo par ghaur karein toh Nesh sey Ganesh hone se muraad Ketu ka wajood mein aa jaana hai

maana ja sakta hai, to ki kaafi hadd tak jayaz bhi maloom hota hai, Chandar ke ghar khana no. 4 mein Shani ka maujood hona ghaliban masnooyi ketu ki jaanib bhi ishara karta hai (Chandar+Shani=Masnooyi Ketu). Magar sawal yeh hai ki kya yahan baat isi Ganesh (Ketu) ki

ho rahi hai? > > Apne aagey poocchha hai ki jis ko Nesh kaha gaya wo Ganesh kaisey ban sakta hai, aur uska process kya hai. Ye poora maslah dobara se apki nazar-e-saani ka talabgaar hai, kyon ki yahan par sawaal

process ka to hai hi nahi, yahan par zikr Paristhiti ka hai, wo paristhti ki jahan zahar bhi zindgi dene ki kaifiyat ko ho jaata hai. Is liye meri samjh mein toh ye hi aata hai ki is key pas-e- manzar mein Paristhitian hi process ka kaam kar rahi hain. Yeh

paristhitian bila shubaa mandi sehat ya beemeri se mutaaliqa hai, jiska saaf-saaf zikr Saneechar khana no 4 mein kayi jagah darj hai. > > Shani khana no. 4 ki do Misaalen dekar main pehle hi isey vajeh

karne ki koshish chuka hoon. Ek misaal aur apke hazoor mein pesh karney ki himaqat kar raha hoon: > > " Mandee Sehat Ke Waqt Saanp Khud-Shraab-Tel/Saneechar ki ashiya Yaani Zehreelee Nashey Wali Ashiya Madad dengee. "

> (LK-1952, Page-607,Line No.8). > > Ghaur se dekhne par pata chalega ki yahan par bhi zikr paristhition ka hi hai jo ki process ke taur par kaam kar rahi hain. > > Respectfully

> Yograj Prabhakar > > > lalkitabee <lalkitabee wrote: Respected Bhai Yograj ji, > > That is ok ,but as IDIOM that phrase can be used for any planet

not > for only Shani. Yah baat to samajh aati hai ki ise IDIOM ki tarah > istemaal kiya gaya hai.Lekin shani ke baarey main hee yah baat kyoon > likhi gayee? Jise Nesh kaha gaya vah ganesh kaise ban saktaa

> hai? Iska Lal Kitab system ke mutallik astrological reason kyaa hoga? > Kya yah line sirf ek idiom ki tarah hee likh dee gayee hai ki shani > ek aisa jahar hai jo ki amrit bhi ban sakta hai? Yah baat to

sabhi > planets par bhi lagoo ho sakti hai sirf shani par > nahin. ,kyonki sabhi planets Lal Kitab ke mutabik NEK aur BAD ki tafseel main bandhey huye hain > > Doosri taraf -Jahar chahey koyee bhi ho ,uske amrit jaisa banne

> ke liye koyee to process honaa chahiye, uske bina to kabhi bhi koyee > bhi jahar amrit nahi ban sakta. > > Therefore: > [ a ] How NESH (DUNG) can get transformed into GANESH?

> [ b ] What is the process? > > If u know share with us plz. > > With Regards > > Pt.Lalkitabee > (V.Shukla) > > , Yograj Prabhakar

> <yr_prabhakar@> wrote: > > > > Respected Pt. Shukla Sahib, > > > > Like " Kaag Sey Hans Ho Jaana " , " Nesh Se Ganesh Hona " too is a > popular idiom – and this certainly is not " my verdict " , it is -

as > it is. > > > > Now your question, why Pundit jee used the Word Dung in brackets? > Your goodself has already answered this question by enlightening us > that Nesh means sting. If Nesh means sting in Urdu and Persian,

then > the matter is crystal clear, Pundit ji unquestionably place the word > in brackets to make it straightforward for a kam-Aqal reader like me > to understand the contextual meanings of Nesh. Shukla Sahib, this

is > not the solitary case where pundit ji used this bracket technique; > you can find scores of such examples in Lal Kitab. > > > > Iqbal bhai also very correctly pointed out that venom can also

be > used as antidote. Probably Pundit ji too has indicated towards the > identical feature. > > > > Respectfully > > Yograj Prabhakar > > > > lalkitabee <lalkitabee@> wrote:

> Thanx Yograj Bhai > > Aapne bilkul theek kahaa yaani ashubh se shubh ho ,As per ur > verdict > > NESH SE GANESH HO is a popular Idiom. > > > > lekin aise main jabki yah popular IDIOM hai to Pujya Pandit Ji

> > ne isi IDIOM ka istemaal kartey huye Bracket main DANG = " Sting " > > kyon likha? Jabki vah saaf likh saktey they ki bad se nek ho.Main > > yah bhi saaf kar dena chahtaa hoon ki NESH ka meaning Urdu aur

> > Parsian dono main DANG= Sting hee liyaa gaya hai aur Pandit ji ne > > usi meaning ko bracket main bhi likha hai.Akhir ek popular Idiom > > jiska matalab hee yahi hai ki " manhoos se shubh hove " ko

> samjhaane ke liye beech main Pandit ji ne specialy bracket main > DANG = Sting kyon likha? Kyonki popular Idioms ko samajhne ke lihaaz > se aisa likhna kuchh ajeeb sa nahi lagtaa kyaa? > >

> > Yograj ji & Varun ji & other experts plz note my querry as a > > research job & we will reach at a result soon with the help of > all > > of u. > >

> > Expecting ur reply Yograj ji. > > > > With Regards > > > > Pt.Lalkitabee > > V.Shukla > > www.lalkitabee.com

> > > > , " varun_trvd "

> > <varun_trvd@> wrote: > > > > > > Respected Pt. Yograj ji, > > > > > > Thank you for having explained the line. It has been a great > help.

> > > > > > The word 'NESH' means a sting [ dank ]but in the local common > > > saying " nesh se ganesh hua' the word 'nesh' also appears to be

> a > > > colloquial form of the Hindi dialect word ' NESHTHA' meaning > > ashubh. > > > Either way it makes sense. > > > > > > It is not only in the Lal Kitab but in the Vedic astrology

also > > the > > > Saturn is considered as the most benevolent giver if a jatak > leads > > a > > > life of morality. It is said that " shani jaisa dataa koi aur

> grah > > > nahi hai " , some thing similar to what the Lal Kitab terms > > as " qalam > > > vidhata " > > > > > > > > > With lots of respect,

> > > > > > Varun Trivedi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Yograj Prabhakar

> > > <yr_prabhakar@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Respected Shukla Sahib jee, > > > > > > > > First of all, The correct word is NESH (Manhoos/Ashubh)

not > > NEESH. > > > > Actually " Nesh sey Ganesh " is a popular idiom. Nesh means > > Manhoos > > > or Ashubh and Ganesh means Shubh in this context. It loosely

> means > > > Ashubh sey Shubh ho Jana. > > > > > > > > As far as the the word " Dang " (Sarp-Dansh) is concerned it is > > > referred to the Sting or venom or negativity of Shani.

> > > > > > > > Now the question is how come the Nesh (Dang) can becomes > Ganesh > > > (Shubh)? Firstly, this actually is an eye opener for those who > > think

> > > Shani is only a Paapi or a cruel planet, it can be a life giver > > too > > > as mentioned in the Lal Kitab. > > > > > > > > Secondly, I think probably this (Nesh sey Gansh) is an

> > indication > > > towards the nature of Shani in a particular condition/situation > > > where even the venom can work as a life saver.. > > > > > > > > Please see Saneechar khana number 4 where it is clearly

> > mentioned: > > > > > > > > " Jism Nakaraah honey ke waqt Saneechar kee cheezon se sehat > > > hogi... " > > > > (LK-1942 Page 210 line no.11)

> > > > > > > > " ...Agar adhrang Vagairah sey nakaraah hokar murdey ki tarah > > > zameen par gir jawey toh saanp khud aakar usey DANG maar kar > uska

> > > adhrang hatakar tandrust balki murdey se bhi zinda kar dega. > Sirf > > > saneechar ki mutaliqa ashiya sey mandee sehat mein Shafaah > > > hogi...... " > > > > (LK-1952, Page number 606, line No. 4-6)

> > > > > > > > It is very much clear from the above examples ki kayi baar > > > Sarpdansh bhi jeevan- dayee ho sakta hai. Shayad isi taraf > Pundit > > ji

> > > kaishara hai.Please correct me if I am wrong. > > > > > > > > Respectfully > > > > Yograj Prabhakar > > > > > > > >

> > > > lalkitabee <lalkitabee@> wrote: > > > Respected Bhai Yograj Ji > > > > > > > > I was looking about saturn in urdu edition at page

> no.201.There > > > is > > > > written like ---NEESH (DENG) SE GANESH HOYE.Plz clear it ,Im > > > unable to > > > > read it, > > > >

> > > > plz tell me what the line reads & what is its meaning ,how > > does > > > it > > > > becomes GANESH. > > > > > > > > With Regards

> > > > > > > > Pt.Lalkitabee > > > > V.Shukla > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with > > > Search.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. > > > > > > > > >

> Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. >

-- Dr. Shiv Dev Kalsi,Jyotish Rishi (AIFAS)Consultant (Vedic Astrology)