Nesh [ dung ] se Ganesh hove / Pt. Yograj ji

[Guest guest]

Respected Pt. Yograj ji,

 

Pt.Lalkitabee ji has a point there.

 

If it were just a colloquial saying then the word 'dung'would appear

to be rather superfluous. The common folk saying would be understood

irrespective of the explanation within brackets. Then why the

explanation in brackets? Was Pandit ji hinting at some thing?

 

It means that the parenthesis has some thing more to it. What? I

wouldn't know for certain. Does it indicate towards Venus? Just a

loud thinking !!

 

With lots of respect,

 

Varun Trivedi

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, " lalkitabee "

<lalkitabee wrote:

>

> Thanx Yograj Bhai

> Aapne bilkul theek kahaa yaani ashubh se shubh ho ,As per ur

verdict

> NESH SE GANESH HO is a popular Idiom.

>

> lekin aise main jabki yah popular IDIOM hai to Pujya Pandit Ji

> ne isi IDIOM ka istemaal kartey huye Bracket main DANG = " Sting "

> kyon likha? Jabki vah saaf likh saktey they ki bad se nek ho.Main

> yah bhi saaf kar dena chahtaa hoon ki NESH ka meaning Urdu aur

> Parsian dono main DANG= Sting hee liyaa gaya hai aur Pandit ji ne

> usi meaning ko bracket main bhi likha hai.Akhir ek popular Idiom

> jiska matalab hee yahi hai ki " manhoos se shubh hove " ko

samjhaane ke liye beech main Pandit ji ne specialy bracket main

DANG = Sting kyon likha? Kyonki popular Idioms ko samajhne ke lihaaz

se aisa likhna kuchh ajeeb sa nahi lagtaa kyaa?

>

> Yograj ji & Varun ji & other experts plz note my querry as a

> research job & we will reach at a result soon with the help of all

> of u.

>

>

> Expecting ur reply Yograj ji.

>

> With Regards

>

> Pt.Lalkitabee

> V.Shukla

> www.lalkitabee.com

>

, " varun_trvd "

> <varun_trvd@> wrote:

> >

> > Respected Pt. Yograj ji,

> >

> > Thank you for having explained the line. It has been a great

help.

> >

> > The word 'NESH' means a sting [ dank ]but in the local common

> > saying " nesh se ganesh hua' the word 'nesh' also appears to be a

> > colloquial form of the Hindi dialect word ' NESHTHA' meaning

> ashubh.

> > Either way it makes sense.

> >

> > It is not only in the Lal Kitab but in the Vedic astrology also

> the

> > Saturn is considered as the most benevolent giver if a jatak

leads

> a

> > life of morality. It is said that " shani jaisa dataa koi aur grah

> > nahi hai " , some thing similar to what the Lal Kitab terms

> as " qalam

> > vidhata "

> >

> >

> > With lots of respect,

> >

> > Varun Trivedi

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , Yograj Prabhakar

> > <yr_prabhakar@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Respected Shukla Sahib jee,

> > >

> > > First of all, The correct word is NESH (Manhoos/Ashubh) not

> NEESH.

> > > Actually " Nesh sey Ganesh " is a popular idiom. Nesh means

> Manhoos

> > or Ashubh and Ganesh means Shubh in this context. It loosely

means

> > Ashubh sey Shubh ho Jana.

> > >

> > > As far as the the word " Dang " (Sarp-Dansh) is concerned it is

> > referred to the Sting or venom or negativity of Shani.

> > >

> > > Now the question is how come the Nesh (Dang) can becomes Ganesh

> > (Shubh)? Firstly, this actually is an eye opener for those who

> think

> > Shani is only a Paapi or a cruel planet, it can be a life giver

> too

> > as mentioned in the Lal Kitab.

> > >

> > > Secondly, I think probably this (Nesh sey Gansh) is an

> indication

> > towards the nature of Shani in a particular condition/situation

> > where even the venom can work as a life saver..

> > >

> > > Please see Saneechar khana number 4 where it is clearly

> mentioned:

> > >

> > > " Jism Nakaraah honey ke waqt Saneechar kee cheezon se sehat

> > hogi... "

> > > (LK-1942 Page 210 line no.11)

> > >

> > > " ...Agar adhrang Vagairah sey nakaraah hokar murdey ki tarah

> > zameen par gir jawey toh saanp khud aakar usey DANG maar kar uska

> > adhrang hatakar tandrust balki murdey se bhi zinda kar dega. Sirf

> > saneechar ki mutaliqa ashiya sey mandee sehat mein Shafaah

> > hogi...... "

> > > (LK-1952, Page number 606, line No. 4-6)

> > >

> > > It is very much clear from the above examples ki kayi baar

> > Sarpdansh bhi jeevan- dayee ho sakta hai. Shayad isi taraf Pundit

> ji

> > kaishara hai.Please correct me if I am wrong.

> > >

> > > Respectfully

> > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > >

> > >

> > > lalkitabee <lalkitabee@> wrote:

> > Respected Bhai Yograj Ji

> > >

> > > I was looking about saturn in urdu edition at page

no.201.There

> > is

> > > written like ---NEESH (DENG) SE GANESH HOYE.Plz clear it ,Im

> > unable to

> > > read it,

> > >

> > > plz tell me what the line reads & what is its meaning ,how

> does

> > it

> > > becomes GANESH.

> > >

> > > With Regards

> > >

> > > Pt.Lalkitabee

> > > V.Shukla

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with

> > Search.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Respected Pt.Yograj ji,

 

I think that is the best way to summerise the statement. It has made

us look at the Saturn in an entirely different perspective.

 

The Saturn is no longer to be perceived as a foe, it can also be one

of the best allies.

 

With lots of respect,

 

Varun Trivedi

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, Yograj Prabhakar

<yr_prabhakar wrote:

>

> Dear Shukla ji and Varun jee

>

> Looks quite logical and may be correct. That means Nesh Se Ganesh

has two meanings, one which I tried to explain and the second one is

what has been described by you. The former is a particular

condition and the later one is a more general one.

>

> God bless you all

> Yograj Prabhakar

>

>

> varun_trvd <varun_trvd wrote:

Respected Lalkitabee ji,

>

> I think that this line, an idiom or otherwise, is important

because

> it indicates a complete 180 degree transformation, from venom to

> antivenom. This could be one of the reasons why Pandit ji thought

of

> mentioning it. This saying is definitely important because it has

> been mentioned in the 1941, 1942 and the 1952 editions.

>

> I think you are right that Ketu exalted alone can be identified

with

> Lord Ganesh and that could happen only with the help of Venus.

> Venus+Saturn forms masnuyee exlated Ketu. Even otherwise the book

> says " buniyaad shani ki shukra hota " [ 1952 ed ]

>

> Therefore with the help of Venus, even a poisonous Nesh can be

> transformed into a life giving Ganesh.

>

> With respect,

>

> Varun Trivedi

>

> , " lalkitabee "

> <lalkitabee@> wrote:

> >

> > Respected Bhai Yograj

> >

> > Ab aap hee kahain ki jo IDIOM sirf shani ke liye istemaal kiya

gaya

> > hai aur specially bracket main (DUNG) likh diya gaya hai ,kya

use

> > sirf ek IDIOM hee maan lena munasib hoga, jabki aap khud hee is

> baat

> > ko manjoori de rahey hain ki " Sarpdansh ka taalluq sirf Shani

ke

> hi

> > ek karak Saanp se muttalliqa maana gaya hai " Is se yah baat to

> saaf

> > ho hee jaati hai ki yah IDIOM sirf ek IDIOM nahee hai ,yah to

> > GAAGAR MAIN SAAGAR HAI.(Ab aapko yah baat to manjoor karni hee

> hogi )

> > Vaise bhi main shani ke kisi khaas khana no. main kabiz

> > hone ya na hone ka zikra nahi kar rahaa hoon.Main to sirf aur

sirf

> > shani ki baat kar rahaa hoon aur us ke NESH SE GANESH ya Venom

to

> > Antidote hone par hee disscuss kar rahaa hoon.Ab jo aap likh

rahey

> > hain ki " Khana no.4 mein Shani ka maujood hona ghaliban masnooyi

> > ketu ki jaanib bhi ishara karta hai (Chandar+Shani=Masnooyi

Ketu).

> > agar aapki baat ko thodi der ke liye man bhi liyaa jaaye to Yah

to

> > sirf MASNUYEE KETU nahi balki MASNUYEE NEECH KETU ban gaya ,jo

ki

> > kabhi bhi GANESH nahi ho sakta.

> > Rahi baat process ki-- Main to yahi

> > kahoongaa ki chaahey pristhitiyon ki vajah se process ho ya

> > pristhitiyaan banaakar process kiyaa jaaye ,dono hee tarah se

> > process to lazim hai.Usee process ke liye as chemicals (It may

be

> > planet or ashiya) kyaa ho saktey hain, yahi to main aapse pooch

> > rahaa hoon.

> > khair meri samajh ke mutabik to Ketu ke 2 masnuyee

halaat

> > hain:

> > chandar +shani = ketu (Neech)

> > & shukkar + shani = Ketu (oonch)

> >

> > Here neech ketu can never become Ganesh .Lekin shukkar ka

talluq

> hotey

> > hee yah shani oonch ketu ya GANESH ban jayegaa.bashartey ki

insaan

> > khud bhi shukkar (wife & cow) ki kadar karne wala hovey aur

> achchhey

> > chal chalan ka ho.

> > ek example dekhiye-- " shani khana 8 ke liye pandit ji

ne

> > likha hai ki chandi ka chaukor (Square) paas rakhne se shani ki

> > asaliyat ka pataa chal jayega. " Matalab yah ki jaise hee chandi

ka

> > saath hoga to shani agar " neech ketu swabhav " wala hua to ketu

ki

> > cheezon par thoda bahut buraa asar jahir kar dega. Agar aisa

nahi

> > hua to ab yah NESH (Dang) se GANESH HOGA. Baat saaf hai ki

shukkar

> > ka talluq hogaa kyonki shukkar+shani = oonch ketu hota hai.

> > Yahi baat pandit ji ne bhi is IDIOM main spasht

kee

> > hai . Ooper likhe gaye example main maine abhi sirf chandi ko

> madde-

> > nazar kartey huve spasht kiya hai.Lekin " CHANDI KA CHAUKOR "

apne

> aap

> > main ek alag hee nazariya hai .Ise fir kabhi spasht karne ki

> koshish

> > karoongaa .

> >

> > With Regards

> >

> > Pt.Lalkitabee

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > V.Shukla , Yograj

> Prabhakar

> > <yr_prabhakar@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Respected Vipin Shukla Sahib,

> > >

> > > Meri nacheez samajh ke mutaboq toh yeh muhavra sirf aur sirf

> Shani

> > maharaj par hi maujoo baithtaa hai. kyon ki Sarpdansh ka taalluq

> > sirf Shani ke hi ek karak Saanp se muttalliqa maana gaya hai,

agar

> > koyi aur Greh bhi sarpdansh maarta ho to bara-e-meharbani mujhe

bhi

> > bataney ki zehmat famayen.

> > >

> > > Ab agar iske doosrey " astrological " pehloo par ghaur karein

toh

> > Nesh sey Ganesh hone se muraad Ketu ka wajood mein aa jaana hai

> > maana ja sakta hai, to ki kaafi hadd tak jayaz bhi maloom hota

hai,

> > Chandar ke ghar khana no. 4 mein Shani ka maujood hona ghaliban

> > masnooyi ketu ki jaanib bhi ishara karta hai

> (Chandar+Shani=Masnooyi

> > Ketu). Magar sawal yeh hai ki kya yahan baat isi Ganesh (Ketu)

ki

> > ho rahi hai?

> > >

> > > Apne aagey poocchha hai ki jis ko Nesh kaha gaya wo Ganesh

kaisey

> > ban sakta hai, aur uska process kya hai. Ye poora maslah dobara

se

> > apki nazar-e-saani ka talabgaar hai, kyon ki yahan par sawaal

> > process ka to hai hi nahi, yahan par zikr Paristhiti ka hai, wo

> > paristhti ki jahan zahar bhi zindgi dene ki kaifiyat ko ho jaata

> > hai. Is liye meri samjh mein toh ye hi aata hai ki is key pas-

e-

> > manzar mein Paristhitian hi process ka kaam kar rahi hain. Yeh

> > paristhitian bila shubaa mandi sehat ya beemeri se mutaaliqa

hai,

> > jiska saaf-saaf zikr Saneechar khana no 4 mein kayi jagah darj

hai.

> > >

> > > Shani khana no. 4 ki do Misaalen dekar main pehle hi isey

vajeh

> > karne ki koshish chuka hoon. Ek misaal aur apke hazoor mein

pesh

> > karney ki himaqat kar raha hoon:

> > >

> > > " Mandee Sehat Ke Waqt Saanp Khud-Shraab-Tel/Saneechar ki

ashiya

> > Yaani Zehreelee Nashey Wali Ashiya Madad dengee. "

> > > (LK-1952, Page-607,Line No.8).

> > >

> > > Ghaur se dekhne par pata chalega ki yahan par bhi zikr

> > paristhition ka hi hai jo ki process ke taur par kaam kar rahi

> hain.

> > >

> > > Respectfully

> > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > >

> > >

> > > lalkitabee <lalkitabee@> wrote:

> > Respected Bhai Yograj ji,

> > >

> > > That is ok ,but as IDIOM that phrase can be used for any

planet

> > not

> > > for only Shani. Yah baat to samajh aati hai ki ise IDIOM ki

> tarah

> > > istemaal kiya gaya hai.Lekin shani ke baarey main hee yah

baat

> > kyoon

> > > likhi gayee? Jise Nesh kaha gaya vah ganesh kaise ban saktaa

> > > hai? Iska Lal Kitab system ke mutallik astrological reason

kyaa

> > hoga?

> > > Kya yah line sirf ek idiom ki tarah hee likh dee gayee hai ki

> > shani

> > > ek aisa jahar hai jo ki amrit bhi ban sakta hai? Yah baat to

> > sabhi

> > > planets par bhi lagoo ho sakti hai sirf shani par

> > > nahin. ,kyonki sabhi planets Lal Kitab ke mutabik NEK aur

BAD ki

> > tafseel main bandhey huye hain

> > >

> > > Doosri taraf -Jahar chahey koyee bhi ho ,uske amrit jaisa

banne

> > > ke liye koyee to process honaa chahiye, uske bina to kabhi

bhi

> > koyee

> > > bhi jahar amrit nahi ban sakta.

> > >

> > > Therefore:

> > > [ a ] How NESH (DUNG) can get transformed into GANESH?

> > > [ b ] What is the process?

> > >

> > > If u know share with us plz.

> > >

> > > With Regards

> > >

> > > Pt.Lalkitabee

> > > (V.Shukla)

> > >

> > > , Yograj Prabhakar

> > > <yr_prabhakar@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Respected Pt. Shukla Sahib,

> > > >

> > > > Like " Kaag Sey Hans Ho Jaana " , " Nesh Se Ganesh Hona " too

is a

> > > popular idiom – and this certainly is not " my verdict " , it

is -

> > as

> > > it is.

> > > >

> > > > Now your question, why Pundit jee used the Word Dung in

> > brackets?

> > > Your goodself has already answered this question by

enlightening

> > us

> > > that Nesh means sting. If Nesh means sting in Urdu and

Persian,

> > then

> > > the matter is crystal clear, Pundit ji unquestionably place

the

> > word

> > > in brackets to make it straightforward for a kam-Aqal reader

> like

> > me

> > > to understand the contextual meanings of Nesh. Shukla Sahib,

> this

> > is

> > > not the solitary case where pundit ji used this bracket

> > technique;

> > > you can find scores of such examples in Lal Kitab.

> > > >

> > > > Iqbal bhai also very correctly pointed out that venom can

also

> > be

> > > used as antidote. Probably Pundit ji too has indicated

towards

> > the

> > > identical feature.

> > > >

> > > > Respectfully

> > > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > > >

> > > > lalkitabee <lalkitabee@> wrote:

> > > Thanx Yograj Bhai

> > > > Aapne bilkul theek kahaa yaani ashubh se shubh ho ,As per

ur

> > > verdict

> > > > NESH SE GANESH HO is a popular Idiom.

> > > >

> > > > lekin aise main jabki yah popular IDIOM hai to Pujya

Pandit

> Ji

> > > > ne isi IDIOM ka istemaal kartey huye Bracket main DANG

> > = " Sting "

> > > > kyon likha? Jabki vah saaf likh saktey they ki bad se nek

> > ho.Main

> > > > yah bhi saaf kar dena chahtaa hoon ki NESH ka meaning

Urdu

> aur

> > > > Parsian dono main DANG= Sting hee liyaa gaya hai aur

Pandit

> ji

> > ne

> > > > usi meaning ko bracket main bhi likha hai.Akhir ek popular

> > Idiom

> > > > jiska matalab hee yahi hai ki " manhoos se shubh hove " ko

> > > samjhaane ke liye beech main Pandit ji ne specialy bracket

main

> > > DANG = Sting kyon likha? Kyonki popular Idioms ko samajhne ke

> > lihaaz

> > > se aisa likhna kuchh ajeeb sa nahi lagtaa kyaa?

> > > >

> > > > Yograj ji & Varun ji & other experts plz note my querry

as a

> > > > research job & we will reach at a result soon with the

help

> of

> > > all

> > > > of u.

> > > >

> > > > Expecting ur reply Yograj ji.

> > > >

> > > > With Regards

> > > >

> > > > Pt.Lalkitabee

> > > > V.Shukla

> > > > www.lalkitabee.com

> > > >

> > > > , " varun_trvd "

> > > > <varun_trvd@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Respected Pt. Yograj ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > Thank you for having explained the line. It has been a

> great

> > > help.

> > > > >

> > > > > The word 'NESH' means a sting [ dank ]but in the local

> > common

> > > > > saying " nesh se ganesh hua' the word 'nesh' also

appears

> to

> > be

> > > a

> > > > > colloquial form of the Hindi dialect word ' NESHTHA'

> meaning

> > > > ashubh.

> > > > > Either way it makes sense.

> > > > >

> > > > > It is not only in the Lal Kitab but in the Vedic

astrology

> > also

> > > > the

> > > > > Saturn is considered as the most benevolent giver if a

> jatak

> > > leads

> > > > a

> > > > > life of morality. It is said that " shani jaisa dataa

koi

> aur

> > > grah

> > > > > nahi hai " , some thing similar to what the Lal Kitab

terms

> > > > as " qalam

> > > > > vidhata "

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > With lots of respect,

> > > > >

> > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > , Yograj

> Prabhakar

> > > > > <yr_prabhakar@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Respected Shukla Sahib jee,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > First of all, The correct word is NESH

(Manhoos/Ashubh)

> > not

> > > > NEESH.

> > > > > > Actually " Nesh sey Ganesh " is a popular idiom. Nesh

means

> > > > Manhoos

> > > > > or Ashubh and Ganesh means Shubh in this context. It

> loosely

> > > means

> > > > > Ashubh sey Shubh ho Jana.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As far as the the word " Dang " (Sarp-Dansh) is

concerned

> it

> > is

> > > > > referred to the Sting or venom or negativity of Shani.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Now the question is how come the Nesh (Dang) can

becomes

> > > Ganesh

> > > > > (Shubh)? Firstly, this actually is an eye opener for

those

> > who

> > > > think

> > > > > Shani is only a Paapi or a cruel planet, it can be a

life

> > giver

> > > > too

> > > > > as mentioned in the Lal Kitab.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Secondly, I think probably this (Nesh sey Gansh) is an

> > > > indication

> > > > > towards the nature of Shani in a particular

> > condition/situation

> > > > > where even the venom can work as a life saver..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Please see Saneechar khana number 4 where it is

clearly

> > > > mentioned:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " Jism Nakaraah honey ke waqt Saneechar kee cheezon se

> > sehat

> > > > > hogi... "

> > > > > > (LK-1942 Page 210 line no.11)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " ...Agar adhrang Vagairah sey nakaraah hokar murdey ki

> > tarah

> > > > > zameen par gir jawey toh saanp khud aakar usey DANG

maar

> kar

> > > uska

> > > > > adhrang hatakar tandrust balki murdey se bhi zinda kar

> dega.

> > > Sirf

> > > > > saneechar ki mutaliqa ashiya sey mandee sehat mein

Shafaah

> > > > > hogi...... "

> > > > > > (LK-1952, Page number 606, line No. 4-6)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It is very much clear from the above examples ki kayi

> baar

> > > > > Sarpdansh bhi jeevan- dayee ho sakta hai. Shayad isi

taraf

> > > Pundit

> > > > ji

> > > > > kaishara hai.Please correct me if I am wrong.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Respectfully

> > > > > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > lalkitabee <lalkitabee@>

> > wrote:

> > > > > Respected Bhai Yograj Ji

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I was looking about saturn in urdu edition at page

> > > no.201.There

> > > > > is

> > > > > > written like ---NEESH (DENG) SE GANESH HOYE.Plz clear

> > it ,Im

> > > > > unable to

> > > > > > read it,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > plz tell me what the line reads & what is its

> > meaning ,how

> > > > does

> > > > > it

> > > > > > becomes GANESH.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > With Regards

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Pt.Lalkitabee

> > > > > > V.Shukla

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

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> > > > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

> > > >

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> > > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

> > >

> >

 

> Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Varun Ji

 

I always been a big believer of the following couplet of Sahir Ludhianvi:

 

Woh Afsaana Jisey Anjaam Tak Laana Na Ho Mumkin,

Usey ikk Khoobsoorat Mod Dekar Chhodna Acchha....

 

But I must admit that we have achieved a partial Anjaam in the going

debate, not only one but two conditions/processes has emerged.

Although not one hundred per cent satisfied. but certainly I am very

glad of the outcome,

 

Respectfully

Yograj Prabhakar

 

 

 

, " varun_trvd "

<varun_trvd wrote:

>

>

> Respected Pt.Yograj ji,

>

> I think that is the best way to summerise the statement. It has made

> us look at the Saturn in an entirely different perspective.

>

> The Saturn is no longer to be perceived as a foe, it can also be one

> of the best allies.

>

> With lots of respect,

>

> Varun Trivedi

>

>

>

, Yograj Prabhakar

> <yr_prabhakar@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Shukla ji and Varun jee

> >

> > Looks quite logical and may be correct. That means Nesh Se Ganesh

> has two meanings, one which I tried to explain and the second one is

> what has been described by you. The former is a particular

> condition and the later one is a more general one.

> >

> > God bless you all

> > Yograj Prabhakar

> >

> >

> > varun_trvd <varun_trvd@> wrote:

> Respected Lalkitabee ji,

> >

> > I think that this line, an idiom or otherwise, is important

> because

> > it indicates a complete 180 degree transformation, from venom to

> > antivenom. This could be one of the reasons why Pandit ji thought

> of

> > mentioning it. This saying is definitely important because it has

> > been mentioned in the 1941, 1942 and the 1952 editions.

> >

> > I think you are right that Ketu exalted alone can be identified

> with

> > Lord Ganesh and that could happen only with the help of Venus.

> > Venus+Saturn forms masnuyee exlated Ketu. Even otherwise the book

> > says " buniyaad shani ki shukra hota " [ 1952 ed ]

> >

> > Therefore with the help of Venus, even a poisonous Nesh can be

> > transformed into a life giving Ganesh.

> >

> > With respect,

> >

> > Varun Trivedi

> >

> > , " lalkitabee "

> > <lalkitabee@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Respected Bhai Yograj

> > >

> > > Ab aap hee kahain ki jo IDIOM sirf shani ke liye istemaal kiya

> gaya

> > > hai aur specially bracket main (DUNG) likh diya gaya hai ,kya

> use

> > > sirf ek IDIOM hee maan lena munasib hoga, jabki aap khud hee is

> > baat

> > > ko manjoori de rahey hain ki " Sarpdansh ka taalluq sirf Shani

> ke

> > hi

> > > ek karak Saanp se muttalliqa maana gaya hai " Is se yah baat to

> > saaf

> > > ho hee jaati hai ki yah IDIOM sirf ek IDIOM nahee hai ,yah to

> > > GAAGAR MAIN SAAGAR HAI.(Ab aapko yah baat to manjoor karni hee

> > hogi )

> > > Vaise bhi main shani ke kisi khaas khana no. main kabiz

> > > hone ya na hone ka zikra nahi kar rahaa hoon.Main to sirf aur

> sirf

> > > shani ki baat kar rahaa hoon aur us ke NESH SE GANESH ya Venom

> to

> > > Antidote hone par hee disscuss kar rahaa hoon.Ab jo aap likh

> rahey

> > > hain ki " Khana no.4 mein Shani ka maujood hona ghaliban masnooyi

> > > ketu ki jaanib bhi ishara karta hai (Chandar+Shani=Masnooyi

> Ketu).

> > > agar aapki baat ko thodi der ke liye man bhi liyaa jaaye to Yah

> to

> > > sirf MASNUYEE KETU nahi balki MASNUYEE NEECH KETU ban gaya ,jo

> ki

> > > kabhi bhi GANESH nahi ho sakta.

> > > Rahi baat process ki-- Main to yahi

> > > kahoongaa ki chaahey pristhitiyon ki vajah se process ho ya

> > > pristhitiyaan banaakar process kiyaa jaaye ,dono hee tarah se

> > > process to lazim hai.Usee process ke liye as chemicals (It may

> be

> > > planet or ashiya) kyaa ho saktey hain, yahi to main aapse pooch

> > > rahaa hoon.

> > > khair meri samajh ke mutabik to Ketu ke 2 masnuyee

> halaat

> > > hain:

> > > chandar +shani = ketu (Neech)

> > > & shukkar + shani = Ketu (oonch)

> > >

> > > Here neech ketu can never become Ganesh .Lekin shukkar ka

> talluq

> > hotey

> > > hee yah shani oonch ketu ya GANESH ban jayegaa.bashartey ki

> insaan

> > > khud bhi shukkar (wife & cow) ki kadar karne wala hovey aur

> > achchhey

> > > chal chalan ka ho.

> > > ek example dekhiye-- " shani khana 8 ke liye pandit ji

> ne

> > > likha hai ki chandi ka chaukor (Square) paas rakhne se shani ki

> > > asaliyat ka pataa chal jayega. " Matalab yah ki jaise hee chandi

> ka

> > > saath hoga to shani agar " neech ketu swabhav " wala hua to ketu

> ki

> > > cheezon par thoda bahut buraa asar jahir kar dega. Agar aisa

> nahi

> > > hua to ab yah NESH (Dang) se GANESH HOGA. Baat saaf hai ki

> shukkar

> > > ka talluq hogaa kyonki shukkar+shani = oonch ketu hota hai.

> > > Yahi baat pandit ji ne bhi is IDIOM main spasht

> kee

> > > hai . Ooper likhe gaye example main maine abhi sirf chandi ko

> > madde-

> > > nazar kartey huve spasht kiya hai.Lekin " CHANDI KA CHAUKOR "

> apne

> > aap

> > > main ek alag hee nazariya hai .Ise fir kabhi spasht karne ki

> > koshish

> > > karoongaa .

> > >

> > > With Regards

> > >

> > > Pt.Lalkitabee

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > V.Shukla , Yograj

> > Prabhakar

> > > <yr_prabhakar@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Respected Vipin Shukla Sahib,

> > > >

> > > > Meri nacheez samajh ke mutaboq toh yeh muhavra sirf aur sirf

> > Shani

> > > maharaj par hi maujoo baithtaa hai. kyon ki Sarpdansh ka taalluq

> > > sirf Shani ke hi ek karak Saanp se muttalliqa maana gaya hai,

> agar

> > > koyi aur Greh bhi sarpdansh maarta ho to bara-e-meharbani mujhe

> bhi

> > > bataney ki zehmat famayen.

> > > >

> > > > Ab agar iske doosrey " astrological " pehloo par ghaur karein

> toh

> > > Nesh sey Ganesh hone se muraad Ketu ka wajood mein aa jaana hai

> > > maana ja sakta hai, to ki kaafi hadd tak jayaz bhi maloom hota

> hai,

> > > Chandar ke ghar khana no. 4 mein Shani ka maujood hona ghaliban

> > > masnooyi ketu ki jaanib bhi ishara karta hai

> > (Chandar+Shani=Masnooyi

> > > Ketu). Magar sawal yeh hai ki kya yahan baat isi Ganesh (Ketu)

> ki

> > > ho rahi hai?

> > > >

> > > > Apne aagey poocchha hai ki jis ko Nesh kaha gaya wo Ganesh

> kaisey

> > > ban sakta hai, aur uska process kya hai. Ye poora maslah dobara

> se

> > > apki nazar-e-saani ka talabgaar hai, kyon ki yahan par sawaal

> > > process ka to hai hi nahi, yahan par zikr Paristhiti ka hai, wo

> > > paristhti ki jahan zahar bhi zindgi dene ki kaifiyat ko ho jaata

> > > hai. Is liye meri samjh mein toh ye hi aata hai ki is key pas-

> e-

> > > manzar mein Paristhitian hi process ka kaam kar rahi hain. Yeh

> > > paristhitian bila shubaa mandi sehat ya beemeri se mutaaliqa

> hai,

> > > jiska saaf-saaf zikr Saneechar khana no 4 mein kayi jagah darj

> hai.

> > > >

> > > > Shani khana no. 4 ki do Misaalen dekar main pehle hi isey

> vajeh

> > > karne ki koshish chuka hoon. Ek misaal aur apke hazoor mein

> pesh

> > > karney ki himaqat kar raha hoon:

> > > >

> > > > " Mandee Sehat Ke Waqt Saanp Khud-Shraab-Tel/Saneechar ki

> ashiya

> > > Yaani Zehreelee Nashey Wali Ashiya Madad dengee. "

> > > > (LK-1952, Page-607,Line No.8).

> > > >

> > > > Ghaur se dekhne par pata chalega ki yahan par bhi zikr

> > > paristhition ka hi hai jo ki process ke taur par kaam kar rahi

> > hain.

> > > >

> > > > Respectfully

> > > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > lalkitabee <lalkitabee@> wrote:

> > > Respected Bhai Yograj ji,

> > > >

> > > > That is ok ,but as IDIOM that phrase can be used for any

> planet

> > > not

> > > > for only Shani. Yah baat to samajh aati hai ki ise IDIOM ki

> > tarah

> > > > istemaal kiya gaya hai.Lekin shani ke baarey main hee yah

> baat

> > > kyoon

> > > > likhi gayee? Jise Nesh kaha gaya vah ganesh kaise ban saktaa

> > > > hai? Iska Lal Kitab system ke mutallik astrological reason

> kyaa

> > > hoga?

> > > > Kya yah line sirf ek idiom ki tarah hee likh dee gayee hai ki

> > > shani

> > > > ek aisa jahar hai jo ki amrit bhi ban sakta hai? Yah baat to

> > > sabhi

> > > > planets par bhi lagoo ho sakti hai sirf shani par

> > > > nahin. ,kyonki sabhi planets Lal Kitab ke mutabik NEK aur

> BAD ki

> > > tafseel main bandhey huye hain

> > > >

> > > > Doosri taraf -Jahar chahey koyee bhi ho ,uske amrit jaisa

> banne

> > > > ke liye koyee to process honaa chahiye, uske bina to kabhi

> bhi

> > > koyee

> > > > bhi jahar amrit nahi ban sakta.

> > > >

> > > > Therefore:

> > > > [ a ] How NESH (DUNG) can get transformed into GANESH?

> > > > [ b ] What is the process?

> > > >

> > > > If u know share with us plz.

> > > >

> > > > With Regards

> > > >

> > > > Pt.Lalkitabee

> > > > (V.Shukla)

> > > >

> > > > , Yograj Prabhakar

> > > > <yr_prabhakar@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Respected Pt. Shukla Sahib,

> > > > >

> > > > > Like " Kaag Sey Hans Ho Jaana " , " Nesh Se Ganesh Hona " too

> is a

> > > > popular idiom – and this certainly is not " my verdict " , it

> is -

> > > as

> > > > it is.

> > > > >

> > > > > Now your question, why Pundit jee used the Word Dung in

> > > brackets?

> > > > Your goodself has already answered this question by

> enlightening

> > > us

> > > > that Nesh means sting. If Nesh means sting in Urdu and

> Persian,

> > > then

> > > > the matter is crystal clear, Pundit ji unquestionably place

> the

> > > word

> > > > in brackets to make it straightforward for a kam-Aqal reader

> > like

> > > me

> > > > to understand the contextual meanings of Nesh. Shukla Sahib,

> > this

> > > is

> > > > not the solitary case where pundit ji used this bracket

> > > technique;

> > > > you can find scores of such examples in Lal Kitab.

> > > > >

> > > > > Iqbal bhai also very correctly pointed out that venom can

> also

> > > be

> > > > used as antidote. Probably Pundit ji too has indicated

> towards

> > > the

> > > > identical feature.

> > > > >

> > > > > Respectfully

> > > > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > > > >

> > > > > lalkitabee <lalkitabee@> wrote:

> > > > Thanx Yograj Bhai

> > > > > Aapne bilkul theek kahaa yaani ashubh se shubh ho ,As per

> ur

> > > > verdict

> > > > > NESH SE GANESH HO is a popular Idiom.

> > > > >

> > > > > lekin aise main jabki yah popular IDIOM hai to Pujya

> Pandit

> > Ji

> > > > > ne isi IDIOM ka istemaal kartey huye Bracket main DANG

> > > = " Sting "

> > > > > kyon likha? Jabki vah saaf likh saktey they ki bad se nek

> > > ho.Main

> > > > > yah bhi saaf kar dena chahtaa hoon ki NESH ka meaning

> Urdu

> > aur

> > > > > Parsian dono main DANG= Sting hee liyaa gaya hai aur

> Pandit

> > ji

> > > ne

> > > > > usi meaning ko bracket main bhi likha hai.Akhir ek popular

> > > Idiom

> > > > > jiska matalab hee yahi hai ki " manhoos se shubh hove " ko

> > > > samjhaane ke liye beech main Pandit ji ne specialy bracket

> main

> > > > DANG = Sting kyon likha? Kyonki popular Idioms ko samajhne ke

> > > lihaaz

> > > > se aisa likhna kuchh ajeeb sa nahi lagtaa kyaa?

> > > > >

> > > > > Yograj ji & Varun ji & other experts plz note my querry

> as a

> > > > > research job & we will reach at a result soon with the

> help

> > of

> > > > all

> > > > > of u.

> > > > >

> > > > > Expecting ur reply Yograj ji.

> > > > >

> > > > > With Regards

> > > > >

> > > > > Pt.Lalkitabee

> > > > > V.Shukla

> > > > > www.lalkitabee.com

> > > > >

> > > > > , " varun_trvd "

> > > > > <varun_trvd@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Respected Pt. Yograj ji,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thank you for having explained the line. It has been a

> > great

> > > > help.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The word 'NESH' means a sting [ dank ]but in the local

> > > common

> > > > > > saying " nesh se ganesh hua' the word 'nesh' also

> appears

> > to

> > > be

> > > > a

> > > > > > colloquial form of the Hindi dialect word ' NESHTHA'

> > meaning

> > > > > ashubh.

> > > > > > Either way it makes sense.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It is not only in the Lal Kitab but in the Vedic

> astrology

> > > also

> > > > > the

> > > > > > Saturn is considered as the most benevolent giver if a

> > jatak

> > > > leads

> > > > > a

> > > > > > life of morality. It is said that " shani jaisa dataa

> koi

> > aur

> > > > grah

> > > > > > nahi hai " , some thing similar to what the Lal Kitab

> terms

> > > > > as " qalam

> > > > > > vidhata "

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > With lots of respect,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , Yograj

> > Prabhakar

> > > > > > <yr_prabhakar@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Respected Shukla Sahib jee,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > First of all, The correct word is NESH

> (Manhoos/Ashubh)

> > > not

> > > > > NEESH.

> > > > > > > Actually " Nesh sey Ganesh " is a popular idiom. Nesh

> means

> > > > > Manhoos

> > > > > > or Ashubh and Ganesh means Shubh in this context. It

> > loosely

> > > > means

> > > > > > Ashubh sey Shubh ho Jana.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > As far as the the word " Dang " (Sarp-Dansh) is

> concerned

> > it

> > > is

> > > > > > referred to the Sting or venom or negativity of Shani.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Now the question is how come the Nesh (Dang) can

> becomes

> > > > Ganesh

> > > > > > (Shubh)? Firstly, this actually is an eye opener for

> those

> > > who

> > > > > think

> > > > > > Shani is only a Paapi or a cruel planet, it can be a

> life

> > > giver

> > > > > too

> > > > > > as mentioned in the Lal Kitab.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Secondly, I think probably this (Nesh sey Gansh) is an

> > > > > indication

> > > > > > towards the nature of Shani in a particular

> > > condition/situation

> > > > > > where even the venom can work as a life saver..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Please see Saneechar khana number 4 where it is

> clearly

> > > > > mentioned:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > " Jism Nakaraah honey ke waqt Saneechar kee cheezon se

> > > sehat

> > > > > > hogi... "

> > > > > > > (LK-1942 Page 210 line no.11)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > " ...Agar adhrang Vagairah sey nakaraah hokar murdey ki

> > > tarah

> > > > > > zameen par gir jawey toh saanp khud aakar usey DANG

> maar

> > kar

> > > > uska

> > > > > > adhrang hatakar tandrust balki murdey se bhi zinda kar

> > dega.

> > > > Sirf

> > > > > > saneechar ki mutaliqa ashiya sey mandee sehat mein

> Shafaah

> > > > > > hogi...... "

> > > > > > > (LK-1952, Page number 606, line No. 4-6)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It is very much clear from the above examples ki kayi

> > baar

> > > > > > Sarpdansh bhi jeevan- dayee ho sakta hai. Shayad isi

> taraf

> > > > Pundit

> > > > > ji

> > > > > > kaishara hai.Please correct me if I am wrong.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Respectfully

> > > > > > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > lalkitabee <lalkitabee@>

> > > wrote:

> > > > > > Respected Bhai Yograj Ji

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I was looking about saturn in urdu edition at page

> > > > no.201.There

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > written like ---NEESH (DENG) SE GANESH HOYE.Plz clear

> > > it ,Im

> > > > > > unable to

> > > > > > > read it,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > plz tell me what the line reads & what is its

> > > meaning ,how

> > > > > does

> > > > > > it

> > > > > > > becomes GANESH.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > With Regards

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Pt.Lalkitabee

> > > > > > > V.Shukla

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them

> fast

> > > with

> > > > > > Search.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Respected Yograj ji,

 

We know you as one of the most learned Lal Kitab scholars around.

I'd place Pt. Lalkitabee ji also in the same company. But no body

can be as dedicated and committed as you are.

 

If a person of your dedication and ability says that he is only

partially satisfied with the out come of the debate then I feel that

the group, in general, and I, in particular, has failed in our

mission.

 

Could it be possible that all of us together try to take

this `afsaana' to its logical conclusion?

 

Therefore I would request you to spell out the issues which you

think have not been touched upon and what are your views on those

issues.

 

With respect and regards,

 

Varun Trivedi

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, " Yograj Prabhakar "

<yr_prabhakar wrote:

>

> Dear Varun Ji

>

> I always been a big believer of the following couplet of Sahir

Ludhianvi:

>

> Woh Afsaana Jisey Anjaam Tak Laana Na Ho Mumkin,

> Usey ikk Khoobsoorat Mod Dekar Chhodna Acchha....

>

> But I must admit that we have achieved a partial Anjaam in the

going

> debate, not only one but two conditions/processes has emerged.

> Although not one hundred per cent satisfied. but certainly I am

very

> glad of the outcome,

>

> Respectfully

> Yograj Prabhakar

>

>

>

> , " varun_trvd "

> <varun_trvd@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Respected Pt.Yograj ji,

> >

> > I think that is the best way to summerise the statement. It has

made

> > us look at the Saturn in an entirely different perspective.

> >

> > The Saturn is no longer to be perceived as a foe, it can also be

one

> > of the best allies.

> >

> > With lots of respect,

> >

> > Varun Trivedi

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , Yograj Prabhakar

> > <yr_prabhakar@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Shukla ji and Varun jee

> > >

> > > Looks quite logical and may be correct. That means Nesh Se

Ganesh

> > has two meanings, one which I tried to explain and the second

one is

> > what has been described by you. The former is a particular

> > condition and the later one is a more general one.

> > >

> > > God bless you all

> > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > >

> > >

> > > varun_trvd <varun_trvd@> wrote:

> > Respected Lalkitabee ji,

> > >

> > > I think that this line, an idiom or otherwise, is important

> > because

> > > it indicates a complete 180 degree transformation, from venom

to

> > > antivenom. This could be one of the reasons why Pandit ji

thought

> > of

> > > mentioning it. This saying is definitely important because it

has

> > > been mentioned in the 1941, 1942 and the 1952 editions.

> > >

> > > I think you are right that Ketu exalted alone can be

identified

> > with

> > > Lord Ganesh and that could happen only with the help of

Venus.

> > > Venus+Saturn forms masnuyee exlated Ketu. Even otherwise the

book

> > > says " buniyaad shani ki shukra hota " [ 1952 ed ]

> > >

> > > Therefore with the help of Venus, even a poisonous Nesh can

be

> > > transformed into a life giving Ganesh.

> > >

> > > With respect,

> > >

> > > Varun Trivedi

> > >

> > > , " lalkitabee "

> > > <lalkitabee@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Respected Bhai Yograj

> > > >

> > > > Ab aap hee kahain ki jo IDIOM sirf shani ke liye istemaal

kiya

> > gaya

> > > > hai aur specially bracket main (DUNG) likh diya gaya

hai ,kya

> > use

> > > > sirf ek IDIOM hee maan lena munasib hoga, jabki aap khud

hee is

> > > baat

> > > > ko manjoori de rahey hain ki " Sarpdansh ka taalluq sirf

Shani

> > ke

> > > hi

> > > > ek karak Saanp se muttalliqa maana gaya hai " Is se yah

baat to

> > > saaf

> > > > ho hee jaati hai ki yah IDIOM sirf ek IDIOM nahee hai ,yah

to

> > > > GAAGAR MAIN SAAGAR HAI.(Ab aapko yah baat to manjoor karni

hee

> > > hogi )

> > > > Vaise bhi main shani ke kisi khaas khana no. main kabiz

> > > > hone ya na hone ka zikra nahi kar rahaa hoon.Main to sirf

aur

> > sirf

> > > > shani ki baat kar rahaa hoon aur us ke NESH SE GANESH ya

Venom

> > to

> > > > Antidote hone par hee disscuss kar rahaa hoon.Ab jo aap

likh

> > rahey

> > > > hain ki " Khana no.4 mein Shani ka maujood hona ghaliban

masnooyi

> > > > ketu ki jaanib bhi ishara karta hai (Chandar+Shani=Masnooyi

> > Ketu).

> > > > agar aapki baat ko thodi der ke liye man bhi liyaa jaaye to

Yah

> > to

> > > > sirf MASNUYEE KETU nahi balki MASNUYEE NEECH KETU ban

gaya ,jo

> > ki

> > > > kabhi bhi GANESH nahi ho sakta.

> > > > Rahi baat process ki-- Main to yahi

> > > > kahoongaa ki chaahey pristhitiyon ki vajah se process ho ya

> > > > pristhitiyaan banaakar process kiyaa jaaye ,dono hee tarah

se

> > > > process to lazim hai.Usee process ke liye as chemicals (It

may

> > be

> > > > planet or ashiya) kyaa ho saktey hain, yahi to main aapse

pooch

> > > > rahaa hoon.

> > > > khair meri samajh ke mutabik to Ketu ke 2 masnuyee

> > halaat

> > > > hain:

> > > > chandar +shani = ketu (Neech)

> > > > & shukkar + shani = Ketu (oonch)

> > > >

> > > > Here neech ketu can never become Ganesh .Lekin shukkar ka

> > talluq

> > > hotey

> > > > hee yah shani oonch ketu ya GANESH ban jayegaa.bashartey ki

> > insaan

> > > > khud bhi shukkar (wife & cow) ki kadar karne wala hovey aur

> > > achchhey

> > > > chal chalan ka ho.

> > > > ek example dekhiye-- " shani khana 8 ke liye

pandit ji

> > ne

> > > > likha hai ki chandi ka chaukor (Square) paas rakhne se

shani ki

> > > > asaliyat ka pataa chal jayega. " Matalab yah ki jaise hee

chandi

> > ka

> > > > saath hoga to shani agar " neech ketu swabhav " wala hua to

ketu

> > ki

> > > > cheezon par thoda bahut buraa asar jahir kar dega. Agar

aisa

> > nahi

> > > > hua to ab yah NESH (Dang) se GANESH HOGA. Baat saaf hai ki

> > shukkar

> > > > ka talluq hogaa kyonki shukkar+shani = oonch ketu hota hai.

> > > > Yahi baat pandit ji ne bhi is IDIOM main

spasht

> > kee

> > > > hai . Ooper likhe gaye example main maine abhi sirf chandi

ko

> > > madde-

> > > > nazar kartey huve spasht kiya hai.Lekin " CHANDI KA CHAUKOR "

> > apne

> > > aap

> > > > main ek alag hee nazariya hai .Ise fir kabhi spasht karne

ki

> > > koshish

> > > > karoongaa .

> > > >

> > > > With Regards

> > > >

> > > > Pt.Lalkitabee

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > V.Shukla , Yograj

> > > Prabhakar

> > > > <yr_prabhakar@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Respected Vipin Shukla Sahib,

> > > > >

> > > > > Meri nacheez samajh ke mutaboq toh yeh muhavra sirf aur

sirf

> > > Shani

> > > > maharaj par hi maujoo baithtaa hai. kyon ki Sarpdansh ka

taalluq

> > > > sirf Shani ke hi ek karak Saanp se muttalliqa maana gaya

hai,

> > agar

> > > > koyi aur Greh bhi sarpdansh maarta ho to bara-e-meharbani

mujhe

> > bhi

> > > > bataney ki zehmat famayen.

> > > > >

> > > > > Ab agar iske doosrey " astrological " pehloo par ghaur

karein

> > toh

> > > > Nesh sey Ganesh hone se muraad Ketu ka wajood mein aa

jaana hai

> > > > maana ja sakta hai, to ki kaafi hadd tak jayaz bhi maloom

hota

> > hai,

> > > > Chandar ke ghar khana no. 4 mein Shani ka maujood hona

ghaliban

> > > > masnooyi ketu ki jaanib bhi ishara karta hai

> > > (Chandar+Shani=Masnooyi

> > > > Ketu). Magar sawal yeh hai ki kya yahan baat isi Ganesh

(Ketu)

> > ki

> > > > ho rahi hai?

> > > > >

> > > > > Apne aagey poocchha hai ki jis ko Nesh kaha gaya wo

Ganesh

> > kaisey

> > > > ban sakta hai, aur uska process kya hai. Ye poora maslah

dobara

> > se

> > > > apki nazar-e-saani ka talabgaar hai, kyon ki yahan par

sawaal

> > > > process ka to hai hi nahi, yahan par zikr Paristhiti ka

hai, wo

> > > > paristhti ki jahan zahar bhi zindgi dene ki kaifiyat ko ho

jaata

> > > > hai. Is liye meri samjh mein toh ye hi aata hai ki is key

pas-

> > e-

> > > > manzar mein Paristhitian hi process ka kaam kar rahi hain.

Yeh

> > > > paristhitian bila shubaa mandi sehat ya beemeri se

mutaaliqa

> > hai,

> > > > jiska saaf-saaf zikr Saneechar khana no 4 mein kayi jagah

darj

> > hai.

> > > > >

> > > > > Shani khana no. 4 ki do Misaalen dekar main pehle hi isey

> > vajeh

> > > > karne ki koshish chuka hoon. Ek misaal aur apke hazoor

mein

> > pesh

> > > > karney ki himaqat kar raha hoon:

> > > > >

> > > > > " Mandee Sehat Ke Waqt Saanp Khud-Shraab-Tel/Saneechar ki

> > ashiya

> > > > Yaani Zehreelee Nashey Wali Ashiya Madad dengee. "

> > > > > (LK-1952, Page-607,Line No.8).

> > > > >

> > > > > Ghaur se dekhne par pata chalega ki yahan par bhi zikr

> > > > paristhition ka hi hai jo ki process ke taur par kaam kar

rahi

> > > hain.

> > > > >

> > > > > Respectfully

> > > > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > lalkitabee <lalkitabee@> wrote:

> > > > Respected Bhai Yograj ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > That is ok ,but as IDIOM that phrase can be used for any

> > planet

> > > > not

> > > > > for only Shani. Yah baat to samajh aati hai ki ise IDIOM

ki

> > > tarah

> > > > > istemaal kiya gaya hai.Lekin shani ke baarey main hee

yah

> > baat

> > > > kyoon

> > > > > likhi gayee? Jise Nesh kaha gaya vah ganesh kaise ban

saktaa

> > > > > hai? Iska Lal Kitab system ke mutallik astrological

reason

> > kyaa

> > > > hoga?

> > > > > Kya yah line sirf ek idiom ki tarah hee likh dee gayee

hai ki

> > > > shani

> > > > > ek aisa jahar hai jo ki amrit bhi ban sakta hai? Yah

baat to

> > > > sabhi

> > > > > planets par bhi lagoo ho sakti hai sirf shani par

> > > > > nahin. ,kyonki sabhi planets Lal Kitab ke mutabik NEK

aur

> > BAD ki

> > > > tafseel main bandhey huye hain

> > > > >

> > > > > Doosri taraf -Jahar chahey koyee bhi ho ,uske amrit

jaisa

> > banne

> > > > > ke liye koyee to process honaa chahiye, uske bina to

kabhi

> > bhi

> > > > koyee

> > > > > bhi jahar amrit nahi ban sakta.

> > > > >

> > > > > Therefore:

> > > > > [ a ] How NESH (DUNG) can get transformed into GANESH?

> > > > > [ b ] What is the process?

> > > > >

> > > > > If u know share with us plz.

> > > > >

> > > > > With Regards

> > > > >

> > > > > Pt.Lalkitabee

> > > > > (V.Shukla)

> > > > >

> > > > > , Yograj

Prabhakar

> > > > > <yr_prabhakar@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Respected Pt. Shukla Sahib,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Like " Kaag Sey Hans Ho Jaana " , " Nesh Se Ganesh Hona "

too

> > is a

> > > > > popular idiom – and this certainly is not " my verdict " ,

it

> > is -

> > > > as

> > > > > it is.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Now your question, why Pundit jee used the Word Dung in

> > > > brackets?

> > > > > Your goodself has already answered this question by

> > enlightening

> > > > us

> > > > > that Nesh means sting. If Nesh means sting in Urdu and

> > Persian,

> > > > then

> > > > > the matter is crystal clear, Pundit ji unquestionably

place

> > the

> > > > word

> > > > > in brackets to make it straightforward for a kam-Aqal

reader

> > > like

> > > > me

> > > > > to understand the contextual meanings of Nesh. Shukla

Sahib,

> > > this

> > > > is

> > > > > not the solitary case where pundit ji used this bracket

> > > > technique;

> > > > > you can find scores of such examples in Lal Kitab.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Iqbal bhai also very correctly pointed out that venom

can

> > also

> > > > be

> > > > > used as antidote. Probably Pundit ji too has indicated

> > towards

> > > > the

> > > > > identical feature.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Respectfully

> > > > > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > > > > >

> > > > > > lalkitabee <lalkitabee@> wrote:

> > > > > Thanx Yograj Bhai

> > > > > > Aapne bilkul theek kahaa yaani ashubh se shubh ho ,As

per

> > ur

> > > > > verdict

> > > > > > NESH SE GANESH HO is a popular Idiom.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > lekin aise main jabki yah popular IDIOM hai to Pujya

> > Pandit

> > > Ji

> > > > > > ne isi IDIOM ka istemaal kartey huye Bracket main DANG

> > > > = " Sting "

> > > > > > kyon likha? Jabki vah saaf likh saktey they ki bad se

nek

> > > > ho.Main

> > > > > > yah bhi saaf kar dena chahtaa hoon ki NESH ka meaning

> > Urdu

> > > aur

> > > > > > Parsian dono main DANG= Sting hee liyaa gaya hai aur

> > Pandit

> > > ji

> > > > ne

> > > > > > usi meaning ko bracket main bhi likha hai.Akhir ek

popular

> > > > Idiom

> > > > > > jiska matalab hee yahi hai ki " manhoos se shubh

hove " ko

> > > > > samjhaane ke liye beech main Pandit ji ne specialy

bracket

> > main

> > > > > DANG = Sting kyon likha? Kyonki popular Idioms ko

samajhne ke

> > > > lihaaz

> > > > > se aisa likhna kuchh ajeeb sa nahi lagtaa kyaa?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yograj ji & Varun ji & other experts plz note my

querry

> > as a

> > > > > > research job & we will reach at a result soon with

the

> > help

> > > of

> > > > > all

> > > > > > of u.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Expecting ur reply Yograj ji.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > With Regards

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Pt.Lalkitabee

> > > > > > V.Shukla

> > > > > > www.lalkitabee.com

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --- In

, " varun_trvd "

> > > > > > <varun_trvd@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Respected Pt. Yograj ji,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thank you for having explained the line. It has

been a

> > > great

> > > > > help.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The word 'NESH' means a sting [ dank ]but in the

local

> > > > common

> > > > > > > saying " nesh se ganesh hua' the word 'nesh' also

> > appears

> > > to

> > > > be

> > > > > a

> > > > > > > colloquial form of the Hindi dialect word '

NESHTHA'

> > > meaning

> > > > > > ashubh.

> > > > > > > Either way it makes sense.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It is not only in the Lal Kitab but in the Vedic

> > astrology

> > > > also

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > Saturn is considered as the most benevolent giver

if a

> > > jatak

> > > > > leads

> > > > > > a

> > > > > > > life of morality. It is said that " shani jaisa

dataa

> > koi

> > > aur

> > > > > grah

> > > > > > > nahi hai " , some thing similar to what the Lal Kitab

> > terms

> > > > > > as " qalam

> > > > > > > vidhata "

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > With lots of respect,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > , Yograj

> > > Prabhakar

> > > > > > > <yr_prabhakar@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Respected Shukla Sahib jee,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > First of all, The correct word is NESH

> > (Manhoos/Ashubh)

> > > > not

> > > > > > NEESH.

> > > > > > > > Actually " Nesh sey Ganesh " is a popular idiom.

Nesh

> > means

> > > > > > Manhoos

> > > > > > > or Ashubh and Ganesh means Shubh in this context.

It

> > > loosely

> > > > > means

> > > > > > > Ashubh sey Shubh ho Jana.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > As far as the the word " Dang " (Sarp-Dansh) is

> > concerned

> > > it

> > > > is

> > > > > > > referred to the Sting or venom or negativity of

Shani.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Now the question is how come the Nesh (Dang) can

> > becomes

> > > > > Ganesh

> > > > > > > (Shubh)? Firstly, this actually is an eye opener

for

> > those

> > > > who

> > > > > > think

> > > > > > > Shani is only a Paapi or a cruel planet, it can be

a

> > life

> > > > giver

> > > > > > too

> > > > > > > as mentioned in the Lal Kitab.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Secondly, I think probably this (Nesh sey Gansh)

is an

> > > > > > indication

> > > > > > > towards the nature of Shani in a particular

> > > > condition/situation

> > > > > > > where even the venom can work as a life saver..

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Please see Saneechar khana number 4 where it is

> > clearly

> > > > > > mentioned:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > " Jism Nakaraah honey ke waqt Saneechar kee

cheezon se

> > > > sehat

> > > > > > > hogi... "

> > > > > > > > (LK-1942 Page 210 line no.11)

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > " ...Agar adhrang Vagairah sey nakaraah hokar

murdey ki

> > > > tarah

> > > > > > > zameen par gir jawey toh saanp khud aakar usey DANG

> > maar

> > > kar

> > > > > uska

> > > > > > > adhrang hatakar tandrust balki murdey se bhi zinda

kar

> > > dega.

> > > > > Sirf

> > > > > > > saneechar ki mutaliqa ashiya sey mandee sehat mein

> > Shafaah

> > > > > > > hogi...... "

> > > > > > > > (LK-1952, Page number 606, line No. 4-6)

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It is very much clear from the above examples ki

kayi

> > > baar

> > > > > > > Sarpdansh bhi jeevan- dayee ho sakta hai. Shayad

isi

> > taraf

> > > > > Pundit

> > > > > > ji

> > > > > > > kaishara hai.Please correct me if I am wrong.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Respectfully

> > > > > > > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > lalkitabee <lalkitabee@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > Respected Bhai Yograj Ji

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I was looking about saturn in urdu edition at

page

> > > > > no.201.There

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > written like ---NEESH (DENG) SE GANESH HOYE.Plz

clear

> > > > it ,Im

> > > > > > > unable to

> > > > > > > > read it,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > plz tell me what the line reads & what is its

> > > > meaning ,how

> > > > > > does

> > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > becomes GANESH.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > With Regards

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Pt.Lalkitabee

> > > > > > > > V.Shukla

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find

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> > > > > >

> > > > > > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

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