Guest guest Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 Respected Girish ji, A very valuable and significant query indeed ! Both in the traditional Vedic astrology and the Indian ethos { maanas } buddhi and pragya have been treated as two different attributes. Buddhi or intelligence [ loosely translated ] is some thing which is seen and noticed. It is also quantifiable to some extent through IQ tests etc. But 'Pragya' [ can not find a word in English ] is some thing which is `pradatta' or given or gifted; it is inherent and not acquired. Where as intelligence can be partly acquired or enhanced or sharpened. In traditional Vedic astrology the 2nd house denotes `Pragya', the 5th house denotes buddhi and the 4th house denotes the achievement through buddhi in terms of university degree etc. Accordingly Jupiter is the karak of pragya, mercury is the karak of buddhi and the moon is the karak of formal education. Yes you are right that the Lal Kitab does not consider mercury as the seed of aqla , but an imitation [ mimicry] of it instead. It says " aqla ka beej nahi magar aqla ki naqla hi budh ka anda hai " [ 1942 urdu ed. page 184 line 26 ] The seed of the aqla is pragya. The perceptible form of pragya acquired with effort is buddhi. The Lal Kitab explains it with an example of a parrot that learns through imitation. The book says " Totaa brahapati ki naqla kar raha hai " [ 1942 urdu ed.page 180, line 9 ] Therefore like the traditional concept Lal Kitab also accepts that Jupiter is the seed of buddhi, mercury acquires the attribute of intelligence through mimicking Jupiter. Jupiter is the source of all Vivek [ ability to discern] and Pragya. In the traditional astrology the house # 2 is considered as the karak of this Pragya, where as the Lal Kitab designates the house # 9 to it. It says that this egg of aqla ki naqla originates in the house # 9 " jo kundali ke khana no 9 main paida hota hai " [ 1942 urdu ed. Page 185 line # 1 ] Here the Lal Kitab differs from the Vedic astrology in a way because the traditional astrology considers the house # 2 as the abode of Pragya where as the Lal Kitab considers the house # 9 for it. I said `in a way' because both the houses # 2 and # 9 are the pakka houses of Jupiter. I do not consider it as a significant difference. Therefore it is true that mercury is acquired intelligence and not the inherent Pragya. It is also true that Jupiter is the karak of Pragya which the mercury imitates. This entire discussion once again proves that the Lal Kitab is not a system apart from the traditional Vedic system, instead it is complimentary to the traditional system. Like the Vedic astrology the Lal Kitab also doesn't consider buddhi synonymous with Pragya. The Lal Kitab also makes a distinction between the two like the Vedic astrology. With regards, Varun Trivedi , " girish_raheja " <girish_raheja wrote: > > Sirs, > > In traditional Vedic astrology mercury is considered as > signifying 'buddhi' or akla. It is the 5th house which is studied for > it. > But in Lal Kitab mercury is said to be the imitation of akla - akla ki > nakla - and not the akla itself. > If that is so, then which planet represents the Akla or buddhi? and > which house should be studied for it? > > Respectfully, > > Girish Raheja > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 Respected Varun Ji & Girish Ji U can understand the Pragya & Buddhi as under:- koyee aisa bachchaa jisne kabhi bhi ghadaa na dekhaa ho aur uske father mitti ka ek ghadaa lekar aaye use dikhaa kar din ke samay use samjhaa dain ki yahi ghadaa hotaa hai aur agar is par jor se chot kar dee jaaye ya unchaayee se gira diyaa jaye to yah foot(DESTROY) jaayegaa.yah baat bataa kar father us ghade ko uske saamne hee ROOM ke corner main rakh detaa hai.bachchey ko milaa huaa yah gyaan aur is gyaan ko samajhne main aur mind main store karne main jo cheez madad kar rahi hai vahi PRAGYA hai.Iske baad raat hone par aur light na rehne par agar us bachchey ko usi ROOM main jaana padey aur achaanak hee uskaa haath us ghadey par lag jaaye to uskaa mind ekdum use alert kartey huve pitaa ke dwaaraa samjhaaye gaye gyaan ko jagaa degaa.Yaani father ke dwara dee gayee jaankaari ko uske mind main tazaa kar dega.Is baar bachcha father se mile gyaan ki NAQAL ka istemaal kartey huve jaan jayegaa ki ghadaa rakhaa huvaa hai aur saavdhani se ghade ko TOUCH karegaa.Bhaley hee andherey main ghadaa dikhayee na de lekin iska matlab yah kabhi nahi liya ja saktaa ki ghadaa us room main nahi hai, Isi tarah Gyan jab tak reveal nahi hota to iska matlab yah kabhi nahi ho saktaa ki vah hai hee nahi.Sirf ek lightpole ki jaroorat hoti hai aam jindagi main bhi aur pragya se buddhi tak ke safar main bhi(yaani gyaan grahan karne tak PRAGYA prabal rahi jo ki Guru or Jupiter ka vishay hai aur gyan milne ke baad uskaa dobaraa istemaal " akal ki naqal ka andaa hai " matlab ki Budh ka subject hai.)Isiliye shayad varun ji Lalkitab main likhaa hai ki aqal ki nakal ka andaa khan 9 main paidaa hotaa hai. Yahi karan hai ki aaj jo bhi vigyan lgtaa hai vah kuchh samay ke baad SAMANYA GYAAN = GENERAL KNOWLEDGE ban jaata hai. Shayad Yahi karan hai ki Lalkitab main bhi likha hai ki sabhi grah budh ke daayrey main chakkar lagaatey hain. matlab saaf hai ki GOL GOL GHOOMTEY HAIN AUR BAAR BAAR GHOOMTEY HAIN ,YAANI JO CHAKKAR PEHLEY LIYAA USI KI NAQAL PAR DOBAARAA BHI CHAKKAR LAGAA RAHEY HAIN.Is aqal ki naqal ke janm sthan khana 9 ka malik bhi is andey ki giraft se bach nahi pataa, isiliye UNREVEALED & REVEALED gyan ke fark ko samajhnaa mushkil hotaa hai. Lalkitab main theek likhaa hai " JHAGDAA AQAL(BUDH) O KISMAT (BRIHASPATI)HO " With Regards. Pt.Lalkitabee , " varun_trvd " <varun_trvd wrote: > > Respected Girish ji, > > A very valuable and significant query indeed ! > > Both in the traditional Vedic astrology and the Indian ethos { > maanas } buddhi and pragya have been treated as two different > attributes. Buddhi or intelligence [ loosely translated ] is some > thing which is seen and noticed. It is also quantifiable to some > extent through IQ tests etc. But 'Pragya' [ can not find a word in > English ] is some thing which is `pradatta' or given or gifted; it > is inherent and not acquired. Where as intelligence can be partly > acquired or enhanced or sharpened. > > In traditional Vedic astrology the 2nd house denotes `Pragya', the > 5th house denotes buddhi and the 4th house denotes the achievement > through buddhi in terms of university degree etc. Accordingly > Jupiter is the karak of pragya, mercury is the karak of buddhi and > the moon is the karak of formal education. > > Yes you are right that the Lal Kitab does not consider mercury as > the seed of aqla , but an imitation [ mimicry] of it instead. It > says " aqla ka beej nahi magar aqla ki naqla hi budh ka anda hai " [ > 1942 urdu ed. page 184 line 26 ] > > The seed of the aqla is pragya. The perceptible form of pragya > acquired with effort is buddhi. The Lal Kitab explains it with an > example of a parrot that learns through imitation. The book > says " Totaa brahapati ki naqla kar raha hai " [ 1942 urdu ed.page > 180, line 9 ] > > Therefore like the traditional concept Lal Kitab also accepts that > Jupiter is the seed of buddhi, mercury acquires the attribute of > intelligence through mimicking Jupiter. Jupiter is the source of all > Vivek [ ability to discern] and Pragya. > > In the traditional astrology the house # 2 is considered as the > karak of this Pragya, where as the Lal Kitab designates the house # > 9 to it. It says that this egg of aqla ki naqla originates in the > house # 9 " jo kundali ke khana no 9 main paida hota hai " [ 1942 > urdu ed. Page 185 line # 1 ] > > Here the Lal Kitab differs from the Vedic astrology in a way > because the traditional astrology considers the house # 2 as the > abode of Pragya where as the Lal Kitab considers the house # 9 for > it. I said `in a way' because both the houses # 2 and # 9 are the > pakka houses of Jupiter. I do not consider it as a significant > difference. > > Therefore it is true that mercury is acquired intelligence and not > the inherent Pragya. It is also true that Jupiter is the karak of > Pragya which the mercury imitates. > > This entire discussion once again proves that the Lal Kitab is not a > system apart from the traditional Vedic system, instead it is > complimentary to the traditional system. Like the Vedic astrology > the Lal Kitab also doesn't consider buddhi synonymous with Pragya. > The Lal Kitab also makes a distinction between the two like the > Vedic astrology. > > With regards, > > Varun Trivedi > > > > > > > > > > > > , " girish_raheja " > <girish_raheja@> wrote: > > > > Sirs, > > > > In traditional Vedic astrology mercury is considered as > > signifying 'buddhi' or akla. It is the 5th house which is studied > for > > it. > > But in Lal Kitab mercury is said to be the imitation of akla - > akla ki > > nakla - and not the akla itself. > > If that is so, then which planet represents the Akla or buddhi? > and > > which house should be studied for it? > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Girish Raheja > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 Respected Varun ji and Lalkitabee ji, Thank you sirs, for explaining this concept. Thank you both once again. With respect, Girish Raheja , " lalkitabee " <lalkitabee wrote: > > Respected Varun Ji & Girish Ji > U can understand the Pragya & Buddhi as under:- > koyee aisa bachchaa jisne kabhi bhi ghadaa na dekhaa ho aur uske > father mitti ka ek ghadaa lekar aaye use dikhaa kar din ke samay use > samjhaa dain ki yahi ghadaa hotaa hai aur agar is par jor se chot > kar dee jaaye ya unchaayee se gira diyaa jaye to yah foot(DESTROY) > jaayegaa.yah baat bataa kar father us ghade ko uske saamne hee ROOM > ke corner main rakh detaa hai.bachchey ko milaa huaa yah gyaan aur > is gyaan ko samajhne main aur mind main store karne main jo cheez > madad kar rahi hai vahi PRAGYA hai.Iske baad raat hone par aur light > na rehne par agar us bachchey ko usi ROOM main jaana padey aur > achaanak hee uskaa haath us ghadey par lag jaaye to uskaa mind ekdum > use alert kartey huve pitaa ke dwaaraa samjhaaye gaye gyaan ko jagaa > degaa.Yaani father ke dwara dee gayee jaankaari ko uske mind main > tazaa kar dega.Is baar bachcha father se mile gyaan ki NAQAL ka > istemaal kartey huve jaan jayegaa ki ghadaa rakhaa huvaa hai aur > saavdhani se ghade ko TOUCH karegaa.Bhaley hee andherey main ghadaa > dikhayee na de lekin iska matlab yah kabhi nahi liya ja saktaa ki > ghadaa us room main nahi hai, Isi tarah Gyan jab tak reveal nahi > hota to iska matlab yah kabhi nahi ho saktaa ki vah hai hee > nahi.Sirf ek lightpole ki jaroorat hoti hai aam jindagi main bhi aur > pragya se buddhi tak ke safar main bhi(yaani gyaan grahan karne tak > PRAGYA prabal rahi jo ki Guru or Jupiter ka vishay hai aur gyan > milne ke baad uskaa dobaraa istemaal " akal ki naqal ka andaa hai " > matlab ki Budh ka subject hai.)Isiliye shayad varun ji Lalkitab main > likhaa hai ki aqal ki nakal ka andaa khan 9 main paidaa hotaa hai. > Yahi karan hai ki aaj jo bhi vigyan lgtaa hai vah kuchh samay > ke baad SAMANYA GYAAN = GENERAL KNOWLEDGE ban jaata hai. > Shayad Yahi karan hai ki Lalkitab main bhi likha hai ki sabhi > grah budh ke daayrey main chakkar lagaatey hain. matlab saaf hai ki > GOL GOL GHOOMTEY HAIN AUR BAAR BAAR GHOOMTEY HAIN ,YAANI JO CHAKKAR > PEHLEY LIYAA USI KI NAQAL PAR DOBAARAA BHI CHAKKAR LAGAA RAHEY > HAIN.Is aqal ki naqal ke janm sthan khana 9 ka malik bhi is andey ki > giraft se bach nahi pataa, isiliye UNREVEALED & REVEALED gyan ke > fark ko samajhnaa mushkil hotaa hai. Lalkitab main theek likhaa > hai " JHAGDAA AQAL(BUDH) O KISMAT (BRIHASPATI)HO " > With Regards. > Pt.Lalkitabee > , " varun_trvd " > <varun_trvd@> wrote: > > > > Respected Girish ji, > > > > A very valuable and significant query indeed ! > > > > Both in the traditional Vedic astrology and the Indian ethos { > > maanas } buddhi and pragya have been treated as two different > > attributes. Buddhi or intelligence [ loosely translated ] is some > > thing which is seen and noticed. It is also quantifiable to some > > extent through IQ tests etc. But 'Pragya' [ can not find a word in > > English ] is some thing which is `pradatta' or given or gifted; it > > is inherent and not acquired. Where as intelligence can be partly > > acquired or enhanced or sharpened. > > > > In traditional Vedic astrology the 2nd house denotes `Pragya', the > > 5th house denotes buddhi and the 4th house denotes the achievement > > through buddhi in terms of university degree etc. Accordingly > > Jupiter is the karak of pragya, mercury is the karak of buddhi and > > the moon is the karak of formal education. > > > > Yes you are right that the Lal Kitab does not consider mercury as > > the seed of aqla , but an imitation [ mimicry] of it instead. > It > > says " aqla ka beej nahi magar aqla ki naqla hi budh ka anda hai " [ > > 1942 urdu ed. page 184 line 26 ] > > > > The seed of the aqla is pragya. The perceptible form of pragya > > acquired with effort is buddhi. The Lal Kitab explains it with an > > example of a parrot that learns through imitation. The book > > says " Totaa brahapati ki naqla kar raha hai " [ 1942 urdu ed.page > > 180, line 9 ] > > > > Therefore like the traditional concept Lal Kitab also accepts that > > Jupiter is the seed of buddhi, mercury acquires the attribute of > > intelligence through mimicking Jupiter. Jupiter is the source of > all > > Vivek [ ability to discern] and Pragya. > > > > In the traditional astrology the house # 2 is considered as the > > karak of this Pragya, where as the Lal Kitab designates the house > # > > 9 to it. It says that this egg of aqla ki naqla originates in the > > house # 9 " jo kundali ke khana no 9 main paida hota hai " [ 1942 > > urdu ed. Page 185 line # 1 ] > > > > Here the Lal Kitab differs from the Vedic astrology in a way > > because the traditional astrology considers the house # 2 as the > > abode of Pragya where as the Lal Kitab considers the house # 9 for > > it. I said `in a way' because both the houses # 2 and # 9 are the > > pakka houses of Jupiter. I do not consider it as a significant > > difference. > > > > Therefore it is true that mercury is acquired intelligence and not > > the inherent Pragya. It is also true that Jupiter is the karak of > > Pragya which the mercury imitates. > > > > This entire discussion once again proves that the Lal Kitab is not > a > > system apart from the traditional Vedic system, instead it is > > complimentary to the traditional system. Like the Vedic astrology > > the Lal Kitab also doesn't consider buddhi synonymous with Pragya. > > The Lal Kitab also makes a distinction between the two like the > > Vedic astrology. > > > > With regards, > > > > Varun Trivedi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " girish_raheja " > > <girish_raheja@> wrote: > > > > > > Sirs, > > > > > > In traditional Vedic astrology mercury is considered as > > > signifying 'buddhi' or akla. It is the 5th house which is > studied > > for > > > it. > > > But in Lal Kitab mercury is said to be the imitation of akla - > > akla ki > > > nakla - and not the akla itself. > > > If that is so, then which planet represents the Akla or buddhi? > > and > > > which house should be studied for it? > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > > > Girish Raheja > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 Dear Lalkitabee ji, Ati Ati Sundar vishleshan. Pranam Umesh Sharma , " girish_raheja " <girish_raheja wrote: > > Respected Varun ji and Lalkitabee ji, > > Thank you sirs, for explaining this concept. Thank you both once > again. > > With respect, > > Girish Raheja > > > > > , " lalkitabee " > <lalkitabee@> wrote: > > > > Respected Varun Ji & Girish Ji > > U can understand the Pragya & Buddhi as under:- > > koyee aisa bachchaa jisne kabhi bhi ghadaa na dekhaa ho aur uske > > father mitti ka ek ghadaa lekar aaye use dikhaa kar din ke samay > use > > samjhaa dain ki yahi ghadaa hotaa hai aur agar is par jor se chot > > kar dee jaaye ya unchaayee se gira diyaa jaye to yah foot (DESTROY) > > jaayegaa.yah baat bataa kar father us ghade ko uske saamne hee ROOM > > ke corner main rakh detaa hai.bachchey ko milaa huaa yah gyaan aur > > is gyaan ko samajhne main aur mind main store karne main jo cheez > > madad kar rahi hai vahi PRAGYA hai.Iske baad raat hone par aur > light > > na rehne par agar us bachchey ko usi ROOM main jaana padey aur > > achaanak hee uskaa haath us ghadey par lag jaaye to uskaa mind > ekdum > > use alert kartey huve pitaa ke dwaaraa samjhaaye gaye gyaan ko > jagaa > > degaa.Yaani father ke dwara dee gayee jaankaari ko uske mind main > > tazaa kar dega.Is baar bachcha father se mile gyaan ki NAQAL ka > > istemaal kartey huve jaan jayegaa ki ghadaa rakhaa huvaa hai aur > > saavdhani se ghade ko TOUCH karegaa.Bhaley hee andherey main ghadaa > > dikhayee na de lekin iska matlab yah kabhi nahi liya ja saktaa ki > > ghadaa us room main nahi hai, Isi tarah Gyan jab tak reveal nahi > > hota to iska matlab yah kabhi nahi ho saktaa ki vah hai hee > > nahi.Sirf ek lightpole ki jaroorat hoti hai aam jindagi main bhi > aur > > pragya se buddhi tak ke safar main bhi(yaani gyaan grahan karne tak > > PRAGYA prabal rahi jo ki Guru or Jupiter ka vishay hai aur gyan > > milne ke baad uskaa dobaraa istemaal " akal ki naqal ka andaa hai " > > matlab ki Budh ka subject hai.)Isiliye shayad varun ji Lalkitab > main > > likhaa hai ki aqal ki nakal ka andaa khan 9 main paidaa hotaa hai. > > Yahi karan hai ki aaj jo bhi vigyan lgtaa hai vah kuchh samay > > ke baad SAMANYA GYAAN = GENERAL KNOWLEDGE ban jaata hai. > > Shayad Yahi karan hai ki Lalkitab main bhi likha hai ki > sabhi > > grah budh ke daayrey main chakkar lagaatey hain. matlab saaf hai ki > > GOL GOL GHOOMTEY HAIN AUR BAAR BAAR GHOOMTEY HAIN ,YAANI JO CHAKKAR > > PEHLEY LIYAA USI KI NAQAL PAR DOBAARAA BHI CHAKKAR LAGAA RAHEY > > HAIN.Is aqal ki naqal ke janm sthan khana 9 ka malik bhi is andey > ki > > giraft se bach nahi pataa, isiliye UNREVEALED & REVEALED gyan ke > > fark ko samajhnaa mushkil hotaa hai. Lalkitab main theek likhaa > > hai " JHAGDAA AQAL(BUDH) O KISMAT (BRIHASPATI)HO " > > With Regards. > > Pt.Lalkitabee > > , " varun_trvd " > > <varun_trvd@> wrote: > > > > > > Respected Girish ji, > > > > > > A very valuable and significant query indeed ! > > > > > > Both in the traditional Vedic astrology and the Indian ethos { > > > maanas } buddhi and pragya have been treated as two different > > > attributes. Buddhi or intelligence [ loosely translated ] is some > > > thing which is seen and noticed. It is also quantifiable to some > > > extent through IQ tests etc. But 'Pragya' [ can not find a word > in > > > English ] is some thing which is `pradatta' or given or gifted; > it > > > is inherent and not acquired. Where as intelligence can be partly > > > acquired or enhanced or sharpened. > > > > > > In traditional Vedic astrology the 2nd house denotes `Pragya', > the > > > 5th house denotes buddhi and the 4th house denotes the > achievement > > > through buddhi in terms of university degree etc. Accordingly > > > Jupiter is the karak of pragya, mercury is the karak of buddhi > and > > > the moon is the karak of formal education. > > > > > > Yes you are right that the Lal Kitab does not consider mercury as > > > the seed of aqla , but an imitation [ mimicry] of it instead. > > It > > > says " aqla ka beej nahi magar aqla ki naqla hi budh ka anda hai " > [ > > > 1942 urdu ed. page 184 line 26 ] > > > > > > The seed of the aqla is pragya. The perceptible form of pragya > > > acquired with effort is buddhi. The Lal Kitab explains it with an > > > example of a parrot that learns through imitation. The book > > > says " Totaa brahapati ki naqla kar raha hai " [ 1942 urdu ed.page > > > 180, line 9 ] > > > > > > Therefore like the traditional concept Lal Kitab also accepts > that > > > Jupiter is the seed of buddhi, mercury acquires the attribute of > > > intelligence through mimicking Jupiter. Jupiter is the source of > > all > > > Vivek [ ability to discern] and Pragya. > > > > > > In the traditional astrology the house # 2 is considered as the > > > karak of this Pragya, where as the Lal Kitab designates the house > > # > > > 9 to it. It says that this egg of aqla ki naqla originates in > the > > > house # 9 " jo kundali ke khana no 9 main paida hota hai " [ 1942 > > > urdu ed. Page 185 line # 1 ] > > > > > > Here the Lal Kitab differs from the Vedic astrology in a way > > > because the traditional astrology considers the house # 2 as the > > > abode of Pragya where as the Lal Kitab considers the house # 9 > for > > > it. I said `in a way' because both the houses # 2 and # 9 are the > > > pakka houses of Jupiter. I do not consider it as a significant > > > difference. > > > > > > Therefore it is true that mercury is acquired intelligence and > not > > > the inherent Pragya. It is also true that Jupiter is the karak of > > > Pragya which the mercury imitates. > > > > > > This entire discussion once again proves that the Lal Kitab is > not > > a > > > system apart from the traditional Vedic system, instead it is > > > complimentary to the traditional system. Like the Vedic astrology > > > the Lal Kitab also doesn't consider buddhi synonymous with > Pragya. > > > The Lal Kitab also makes a distinction between the two like the > > > Vedic astrology. > > > > > > With regards, > > > > > > Varun Trivedi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " girish_raheja " > > > <girish_raheja@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Sirs, > > > > > > > > In traditional Vedic astrology mercury is considered as > > > > signifying 'buddhi' or akla. It is the 5th house which is > > studied > > > for > > > > it. > > > > But in Lal Kitab mercury is said to be the imitation of akla - > > > akla ki > > > > nakla - and not the akla itself. > > > > If that is so, then which planet represents the Akla or buddhi? > > > and > > > > which house should be studied for it? > > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > > > > > Girish Raheja > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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