Lal Kitab Discussion Group Masnuyee Derivation and their Values / Kalsi ji

October 27, 2007

varun ji, may i make a request. please add the owner and pakka ghar planet and put it in the files section. it is a path breaking approach and a valuable document and deserves to put in the files section so that new members joining the group can see it at the onset and it doesn't gets lost among other messages. kulbirbainsvarun_trvd <varun_trvd wrote: Respected Kalsi ji,I believe the problem that you seem to be facing is because of the derivation steps and the value of the resultant

constituents.We as a group have developed our own convention to work out the Masnuyee constituents. Others may or may not follow our convention. The convention is :[ a ] Do the first derivation. If there are two planets do it for both.[ b ] This derivation will be of 50% value for each resultant component. [ c ] The derivation value will get halved by each subsequent spilt. [ d ] Constituents of equal value alone can join to form a new masnuyee planet.[ e ] Planets with Unequal value can not be combined to form a masnuyee planet.[ f ] While combining the constituents groups should be made based on the proximity in degrees of the main planets. { e.g. Suppose there are three planets in a house. sun at 5 degree, venus at 10 degress and Saturn at 23 degrees. In this case the components of sun can combine with the components of venus but not with the Saturn. The components of Saturn can

combine with the components of Venus on the basis of proximity]Step one : Do the first spilt. The value of each component will be 50%. Step two :See whether it leads to a new Masnuyee composition.If it does, then stop and no further derivation should be done.If not, then only go to the next stage of derivation. The value of each component now will be 25%.The way you seem to be going about, there will be no end to the derived strings. This will lead to further confusion.The Masnuyee derivations are done to simplify rather than complicate the things.Now following the convention let us examine the Mars + Saturn combination :Step One :Mars = sun + SatSaturn = Jup + Venus[ first derivation of both the planets complete. Each component is of 50% value]Step two :Yes a new combination of masnuyee planets is formed, therefore no further

derivation will be done.The masnuyee components after step One form:[ sun + jup ] = moon[ sat + ven ] = ketuIt becomes clear why Pandit ji suggested the upaya for Moon.Regards,Varun Trivedi , "Shivdev Kalsi" <shivdev.kalsi wrote:>> Dear Kulbir Ji,> I am slow in typing work and use copy paste for repetetive work.The red in> your reply may be ignored> I reproduce the corrected equation as inder> My query still is not answered. I think I could not put my query> properly.> My only doubt is about sun. What is the criteria of leaving Sun while> Bifurcation the masnuyee part. of mangal Bud. we bifurcated the Ma=SU+Sat> and then left Su as it is.> It can be like this also> Ma=(Ven+Mer)+Sat> Ma=

Mer+(Ven+Sat)> Ma= Mer+Uch Ketu- X> Now take Sat+Mars= Sat+(Mer+Uch Ketu)=(Jup+Ven)+(Mer+Uch Ketu)> = Jup+(Venus+Mer)+Uchketu> = (Jup+Sun)+UchKetu> = Moon + Uch Ketu> But Other Equation will be> Now take Sat+Mars= Sat+(Mer+Uch Ketu)------Value of mars is taken from first> equation marked X> =(Mar+Mer)+(Mer+Uch Ketu)> > = Mar+2Mer+UchKetu> Moon is no where> Here it is a confusion Please try to remove it> Yours> > > On 10/27/07, kulbir bains <kulbirbains wrote:> >> > kalsi ji, mars nek has masnui parts = su+me. mars bad= su+sa> >> > please explain how u put me+uch ketu as masnui parts of mars. i fail to> > understand> > as far my knowledge is concerned budh and ketu uch or neech don't form any> > masnui.> > ur caculation=> >

Now take Sat+Mars= Sat+(Mer+Uch Ketu)=(Mar+Mer) +(Mer+Uch Ketu)> > *(= Jup+(Venus+Mer) +Uchketu )This line to be ignored is not part of above> > equation*> > = Mar+2Mer+UchKetu> > Moon is no where> >> > kulbir> >> >> > *"shivdev.kalsi" <shivdev.kalsi* wrote:> >> > Dear Varun Ji,> > My query still is not answered. I think I could not put my query> > properly.> > My only doubt is about sun. What is the criteria of leaving Sun while> > Bifurcation the masnuyee part. of mangal Bud. we bifurcated the Ma=SU+Sat> > and then left Su as it is.> > It can be like this also> > Ma=(Ven+Mer)+Sat> > Ma= Mer+(Ven+Sat)> > Ma= Mer+Uch Ketu> > Now take Sat+Mars= Sat+(Mer+Uch Ketu)=(Jup+Ven)+(Mer+Uch Ketu)> > =

Jup+(Venus+Mer)+Uchketu> > = (Jup+Sun)+UchKetu> > = Moon + Uch Ketu> > But Other Equation will be> > Now take Sat+Mars= Sat+(Mer+Uch Ketu)=(Mar+Mer)+(Mer+Uch Ketu)> > = Jup+(Venus+Mer)+Uchketu> > = Mar+2Mer+UchKetu> > Moon is no where> > Here it is a confusion Please try to remove it> > Yours> > Shiv Dev kalsi> >> > <%40>,> > "varun_trvd"> > <varun_trvd@> wrote:> > >> > > Respected Kalsi ji,> > >> > > The query was as to why Pandit ji suggested establishing at home the> > > Shamshan ka pani for Mars and Saturn in the 8th house when apparently> > > there is no moon

involved.> > >> > > Let me briefly summarize what Kulbir Bhai has said.> > >> > > The upaya is based on the Masnuyee resultant of these two planets in> > > the 8th house.> > >> > > Mars in the 8th is assumed as ashubh hence = Surya + shani> > > Shani in its pakka ghar assumed as ketu swabhav hence = Jup + Venus> > >> > > The resultant masnuyee planets formed from the above => > > {Surya + Jup } and { Shani + venus}> > >> > > Surya + Jup = moon ; Shani + Venus = Ketu uchcha> > >> > > = moon and Ketu uchcha> > >> > > Since moon [ a resultant constituent ] will get scorched in the fire> > > of hell { 8th house } hence it has to be retrieved. Therefore Pandit> > > ji suggested that the water from a cremation ground be

kept at home> > >> > > As for the other planets in the 8th house I will advise that you> > > read a beautiful account of them in the book Trik bhavanon ki gatha> > > by Pt. Krishna Ashant.> > >> > > After reading the book if you have any queries, some of us will be> > > very happy to answer them for you.> > >> > > With regards,> > >> > > Varun Trivedi> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > <%40>,> > "shivdev.kalsi"> > > <shivdev.kalsi@> wrote:>

> > >> > > > Dear Bhooshan Ji,> > > > I am looking at the mosnoovi concept explained by Kulbir Ji for> > > > chander in 8th. He explained that> > > > 1. MA bad = Su + Sa> > > > 2. = Su + Br + Shukr> > > > 3. = Ch + Shukr.> > > > 4. now MA + SA = chandra + shukr + shani> > > > 5. = chandra + UCH ketu.> > > > Please see Sr. No 2 , he has not bifurcated sun and in Sr. No.4> > > also> > > > not bifurcated Shani. Something seems to be missed in the above.> > > > Secondly, This justification is made for chander in 8th. I request> > > > you to spare your precious time for me to illustrate the equation> > > > for Venus in 8th, Mars Bad in 8th,Mercury in 8th, Rahu in 8th, ketu> > > > in 8th, saturn in 8th and Jupiter

in 8th and of course Sun does not> > > > require any remedy there.> > > > I am a new to this system and want to understand this great concept> > > > of masnooyi invented by the few members of group and giving you> > > > trouble for the typing work.> > > > Your> > > > Shiv Dev Kalsi> > > > <%40>,> >> > > > "varun_trvd" <varun_trvd@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Kulbir Bhai,> > > > >> > > > > You are absolutely right. In both the cases it is the Moon which> > > is> > > > > being retrieved from the darkness of the 8th house. In the

first> > > > > case it is the moon as such in the 8th house where as in the case> > > > of> > > > > Mars+Saturn it is the Moon as a resultant of the Masnuyee break> > > up> > > > > of these two planets.> > > > >> > > > > It is for this reason that Pt. Rupchand ji advised to bring home> > > a> > > > > little shamshan ka pani.> > > > >> > > > > With regards,> > > > >> > > > > Varun Trivedi> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > <%40>,> > "kulbirbains"> > > > > <kulbirbains@> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Rohit ji, this could be a possible explanation but only if> > > varun> > > > > ji or> > > > > > lalkitabee ji agree with it as i am a beginner in this concept.> > > > > > MA bad = Su + Sa> > > > > > = Su + Br + Shukr> > > > > > = Ch + Shukr.> > > > > > now MA + SA = chandra + shukr + shani> > > > > > = chandra + UCH ketu.> > > > > > may be for this chandra formation in 8 the upaya of shamshan ka> > > > > pani> > > > > > is

prescribed.> > > > > >> > > > > > kulbir bainjs> > > > > > <%40>,> > "sharma.rohit80"> > > > > > <sharma.rohit80@> wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Sir,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > The Lalkitab advises to keep at home the shamshan ka pani if> > > > > some> > > > > > one> > > > > > > has moon in the 8th house. One can understand that the moon> > > is> > > > > being> > > > > > > taken out of the 8th house through this remedy.> > > > > > > But the same

remedy has also been suggested for Mars and> > > Saturn> > > > > > > together in the 8th house. Any clues why?> > > > > > >> > > > > > > respectfully,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Rohit Sharma> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> >> >> >> > *Kulbir Bains*> >> > ------------------------------> > Chat on a cool, new interface. No download required. <http://in.rd./tagline_webmessenger_10/*http://in.messenger./webmessengerpromo.php>> > > >> > > > --

> Dr. Shiv Dev Kalsi,> Jyotish Rishi (AIFAS)> Consultant (Vedic Astrology)>Kulbir Bains

Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now

October 29, 2007

Dear Varun Ji,Very Very Thankful to be so kind to me. I will try to apply this combinations in Kundlis. If you permit may I have some more from you. How can we apply these rules for logic of remedial measures where we have no degrees, as we are doing in discussion in our group. other is regarding the same equation of SAT+MA

You said thatThe Masnuyee derivations are done to simplify rather than complicatethe things.Now following the convention let us examine the Mars + Saturncombination :Step One :Mars = sun + Sat

Saturn = Jup + Venus[ first derivation of both the planets complete. Each component is of50% value]Step two :Yes a new combination of masnuyee planets is formed, therefore nofurther derivation will be done.

The masnuyee components after step One form:[ sun + jup ] = moon[ sat + ven ] = ketuIt becomes clear why Pandit ji suggested the upaya for Moon.Now in step On you have taken Jup+Ven as Saturn masnooyi Part. How can we decide that we have to take Jup+Ven not Ma+Me If we take Ma+Me then the equation will be

Mars = sun + SatSaturn = Mer +Marsresultant = Mars Nek+(Mars+Sat) = Mars nek + Rahu UchhNor need of any UpayaPlease Correct Me

Yours Shiv Dev KalsiOn 10/28/07, varun_trvd <varun_trvd wrote:

Respected Kalsi ji, I believe the problem that you seem to be facing is because of the derivation steps and the value of the resultant constituents. We as a group have developed our own convention to work out the Masnuyee constituents. Others may or may not follow our convention. The convention is :

[ a ] Do the first derivation. If there are two planets do it for both. [ b ] This derivation will be of 50% value for each resultant component. [ c ] The derivation value will get halved by each subsequent spilt. [ d ] Constituents of equal value alone can join to form a new masnuyee planet. [ e ] Planets with Unequal value can not be combined to form a masnuyee planet. [ f ] While combining the constituents groups should be made based on the proximity in degrees of the main planets. { e.g. Suppose there are three planets in a house. sun at 5 degree, venus at 10 degress and Saturn at 23 degrees. In this case the components of sun can combine with the components of venus but not with the Saturn. The components of Saturn can combine with the components of Venus on the basis of proximity] Step one : Do the first spilt. The value of each component will be 50%. Step two :

See whether it leads to a new Masnuyee composition. If it does, then stop and no further derivation should be done. If not, then only go to the next stage of derivation. The value of each component now will be 25%.

The way you seem to be going about, there will be no end to the derived strings. This will lead to further confusion. The Masnuyee derivations are done to simplify rather than complicate the things.

Now following the convention let us examine the Mars + Saturn combination : Step One : Mars = sun + Sat Saturn = Jup + Venus [ first derivation of both the planets complete. Each component is of 50% value] Step two : Yes a new combination of masnuyee planets is formed, therefore no further derivation will be done. The masnuyee components after step One form: [ sun + jup ] = moon

[ sat + ven ] = ketu It becomes clear why Pandit ji suggested the upaya for Moon. Regards, Varun Trivedi

, " Shivdev Kalsi " <shivdev.kalsi wrote: > > Dear Kulbir Ji, > I am slow in typing work and use copy paste for repetetive work.The red in

> your reply may be ignored > I reproduce the corrected equation as inder > My query still is not answered. I think I could not put my query > properly. > My only doubt is about sun. What is the criteria of leaving Sun while > Bifurcation the masnuyee part. of mangal Bud. we bifurcated the Ma=SU+Sat > and then left Su as it is. > It can be like this also > Ma=(Ven+Mer)+Sat > Ma= Mer+(Ven+Sat)

> Ma= Mer+Uch Ketu- X > Now take Sat+Mars= Sat+(Mer+Uch Ketu)=(Jup+Ven)+(Mer+Uch Ketu) > = Jup+(Venus+Mer)+Uchketu > = (Jup+Sun)+UchKetu > = Moon + Uch Ketu > But Other Equation will be

> Now take Sat+Mars= Sat+(Mer+Uch Ketu)------Value of mars is taken from first > equation marked X > =(Mar+Mer)+(Mer+Uch Ketu) > > = Mar+2Mer+UchKetu

> Moon is no where > Here it is a confusion Please try to remove it > Yours > > > On 10/27/07, kulbir bains <kulbirbains wrote: > > > > kalsi ji, mars nek has masnui parts = su+me. mars bad= su+sa

> > > > please explain how u put me+uch ketu as masnui parts of mars. i fail to > > understand > > as far my knowledge is concerned budh and ketu uch or neech don't form any

> > masnui. > > ur caculation= > > Now take Sat+Mars= Sat+(Mer+Uch Ketu)=(Mar+Mer) +(Mer+Uch Ketu) > > *(= Jup+(Venus+Mer) +Uchketu )This line to be ignored is not part of above

> > equation* > > = Mar+2Mer+UchKetu > > Moon is no where > > > > kulbir > > > > > > * " shivdev.kalsi " <shivdev.kalsi* wrote:

> > > > Dear Varun Ji, > > My query still is not answered. I think I could not put my query > > properly. > > My only doubt is about sun. What is the criteria of leaving Sun while > > Bifurcation the masnuyee part. of mangal Bud. we bifurcated the Ma=SU+Sat > > and then left Su as it is. > > It can be like this also > > Ma=(Ven+Mer)+Sat > > Ma= Mer+(Ven+Sat)

> > Ma= Mer+Uch Ketu > > Now take Sat+Mars= Sat+(Mer+Uch Ketu)=(Jup+Ven)+(Mer+Uch Ketu) > > = Jup+(Venus+Mer)+Uchketu > > = (Jup+Sun)+UchKetu > > = Moon + Uch Ketu > > But Other Equation will be

> > Now take Sat+Mars= Sat+(Mer+Uch Ketu)=(Mar+Mer)+(Mer+Uch Ketu) > > = Jup+(Venus+Mer)+Uchketu > > = Mar+2Mer+UchKetu > > Moon is no where > > Here it is a confusion Please try to remove it

> > Yours > > Shiv Dev kalsi > > > >

<%40>, > > " varun_trvd " > > <varun_trvd@> wrote:

> > > > > > Respected Kalsi ji, > > > > > > The query was as to why Pandit ji suggested establishing at home the > > > Shamshan ka pani for Mars and Saturn in the 8th house when apparently > > > there is no moon involved. > > > > > > Let me briefly summarize what Kulbir Bhai has said. > > > > > > The upaya is based on the Masnuyee resultant of these two planets in > > > the 8th house. > > > > > > Mars in the 8th is assumed as ashubh hence = Surya + shani > > > Shani in its pakka ghar assumed as ketu swabhav hence = Jup + Venus > > > > > > The resultant masnuyee planets formed from the above = > > > {Surya + Jup } and { Shani + venus} > > > > > > Surya + Jup = moon ; Shani + Venus = Ketu uchcha

> > > > > > = moon and Ketu uchcha > > > > > > Since moon [ a resultant constituent ] will get scorched in the fire > > > of hell { 8th house } hence it has to be retrieved. Therefore Pandit > > > ji suggested that the water from a cremation ground be kept at home > > > > > > As for the other planets in the 8th house I will advise that you > > > read a beautiful account of them in the book Trik bhavanon ki gatha > > > by Pt. Krishna Ashant. > > > > > > After reading the book if you have any queries, some of us will be > > > very happy to answer them for you. > > >

> > > With regards, > > > > > > Varun Trivedi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

<%40>, > > " shivdev.kalsi

" > > > <shivdev.kalsi@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Bhooshan Ji, > > > > I am looking at the mosnoovi concept explained by Kulbir Ji for > > > > chander in 8th. He explained that

> > > > 1. MA bad = Su + Sa > > > > 2. = Su + Br + Shukr > > > > 3. = Ch + Shukr. > > > > 4. now MA + SA = chandra + shukr + shani > > > > 5. = chandra + UCH ketu.

> > > > Please see Sr. No 2 , he has not bifurcated sun and in Sr. No.4 > > > also > > > > not bifurcated Shani. Something seems to be missed in the above. > > > > Secondly, This justification is made for chander in 8th. I request > > > > you to spare your precious time for me to illustrate the equation > > > > for Venus in 8th, Mars Bad in 8th,Mercury in 8th, Rahu in 8th, ketu > > > > in 8th, saturn in 8th and Jupiter in 8th and of course Sun does not > > > > require any remedy there. > > > > I am a new to this system and want to understand this great concept > > > > of masnooyi invented by the few members of group and giving you > > > > trouble for the typing work. > > > > Your > > > > Shiv Dev Kalsi > > > >

<%40>, > > > > > > " varun_trvd " <varun_trvd@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Kulbir Bhai, > > > > > > > > > > You are absolutely right. In both the cases it is the Moon which > > > is

> > > > > being retrieved from the darkness of the 8th house. In the first > > > > > case it is the moon as such in the 8th house where as in the case > > > > of

> > > > > Mars+Saturn it is the Moon as a resultant of the Masnuyee break > > > up > > > > > of these two planets. > > > > > > > > > > It is for this reason that Pt. Rupchand ji advised to bring home > > > a > > > > > little shamshan ka pani. > > > > > > > > > > With regards, > > > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > <%

40>, > > " kulbirbains " > > > > > <kulbirbains@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > Rohit ji, this could be a possible explanation but only if > > > varun > > > > > ji or > > > > > > lalkitabee ji agree with it as i am a beginner in this concept. > > > > > > MA bad = Su + Sa > > > > > > = Su + Br + Shukr > > > > > > = Ch + Shukr. > > > > > > now MA + SA = chandra + shukr + shani

> > > > > > = chandra + UCH ketu. > > > > > > may be for this chandra formation in 8 the upaya of shamshan ka > > > > > pani > > > > > > is prescribed.

> > > > > > > > > > > > kulbir bainjs > > > > > >

<%40>, > > " sharma.rohit80

" > > > > > > <sharma.rohit80@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Lalkitab advises to keep at home the shamshan ka pani if > > > > > some > > > > > > one > > > > > > > has moon in the 8th house. One can understand that the moon > > > is > > > > > being

> > > > > > > taken out of the 8th house through this remedy. > > > > > > > But the same remedy has also been suggested for Mars and > > > Saturn > > > > > > > together in the 8th house. Any clues why?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > respectfully, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rohit Sharma > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Kulbir Bains* > > > > ------------------------------

> > Chat on a cool, new interface. No download required. Click here.<

http://in.rd./tagline_webmessenger_10/*http://in.messenger./webmessengerpromo.php

> > > > > > > > > -- > Dr. Shiv Dev Kalsi, > Jyotish Rishi (AIFAS) > Consultant (Vedic Astrology) >

-- Dr. Shiv Dev Kalsi,Jyotish Rishi (AIFAS)Consultant (Vedic Astrology)