Lal Kitab Discussion Group Results of Sarini Verification- Further Task

[Guest guest]

Bhai -

 

Foreign births using the Sarini ARE inaccurate. As all the members see those who

made mighty claims of its efficacy are now mysteriously silent.

 

The learned members of this forum have shown its inaccuracies. Kalsi Sahib has

posted two inquiries of Bhatia Ji but they have gone unanswered.

 

Bottom line - if you use an astrologer who uses Sarini 100% of the time you will

have failure 100% of the time - May God help you.

 

Best Regards,

Iqbal

USA

 

Sent via Blackberry

 

 

" kulbirbains " <kulbirbains

 

Sat, 27 Oct 2007 12:15:59

 

Lal Kitab Discussion Group Re: Results of Sarini Verification- Further

Task

 

 

respected moderators,

since this group is for disscussions pertaining to lalkitab. the

primary question here was

is lagan sarani part of lalkitab is it important or can we do

without it.

it has now been established that horoscopes prepared by any software

are as good as by this sarani.

it was not our intention to bring any dispute to any document or

person. it has been safely concluded that lagn sarani is not a part

of lalkitab and foreign births can be calculated by other methods

also and are good for lk analysis.

so why waste time on these exercises when much more important issues

are there pertaining to lalkitab. after all it is not a mathematical

or astronomical group.

kulbirbains

 

ar <%40>

@, " Shivdev Kalsi "

<shivdev.kalsi wrote:

>

> Dear Moderators,

> If Iqbal Ji's statement is stated as true, is it not wrong on the

part of

> Astrologer who calculated the ascendent as Tula or Kanya as lagna

for the

> birth of Iqbal Ji while his Lagna should be Tauras. There may be

difference

> of few degrees in calculation not 3 or 4 signs.I read the sarni

pages

> uploaded by Sh Bhardwaj Ji and cannot find any grave error in it.

In my view

> only few of these fussy persons know how to use the sarni.Even the

person

> who introducesd the sarni had wrongly calculated the ascendent.

> Here is my proposal which shall be accepted by all the person who

has doubt

> about the sarni.

> Let us calculate the ascendent

> 1.Manually

> 2. through Computer software

> 3. This Sarni

> 4. And any other Lagan Sarni/means

> We will submit the results in groups and compare.The task can be

given

> as follow

> 1. For Miglani Ji

> Person Name - A, DOB 15.02.1976, place Delhi, Time 15.43

> 2. For Varun Trivedi Ji

> Person Name - B, DOB 15.02.1976, place Toronto,Canada, Time 15.43

> 3. For CP Tyagi

> Person Name - C, DOB 15.02.1976, place Tokyo,Japan, Time 15.43

> 4. For Bhooshan Priya Ji

> Person Name - D, DOB 15.02.1976, place Lahore,Pakistan, Time 15.43

> 5. For Bhardwaj Ji

> Person Name - E, DOB 15.02.1976, place Chandigarh,India, Time 15.43

> 6. For Lalkitabee Ji(He is busy, If he gets the time I request him

to do it)

> Person Name - F, DOB 15.02.1976, place Ambala,Haryana, Time 15.43

> 7. For Bhatia Ji

> Person Name - G, DOB 15.02.1976, place New york,USA, Time 15.43

> 8. For Me

> Person Name - H, DOB 15.02.1976, place Madras,India, Time 15.43

> Date Of submission of results is 15.11.2007

> If agreed by moderators we may give this proposal to members.The

results may

> decide the fate of sarni once for all.

> Yours

> Shiv Dev Kalsi

>

> @ <%40>

, NKB <nirbhar@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Iqbal Ji,

> > Your Lagna stands for

> > Tauras(2).It is calculated with Software as well as per the

disputed

> > Sarni. There might be some calculation/oversight mistake

> > done by members while calculating lagna from the sarni.

> > Iqbal Bhai I tell you a fundamental thumb rule

> > for calculating lagan at any place in world. Sun changes its

> position

> > in mid of the month. Sun

> > always rise in

> > east in morning. therefore the rashi in which the sun is

transiting

> > will rise at the time rising of sun in morning. Speed of Lagna

is 2

> > hour per house approx.

> > Calculate the time difference between sunrise and time of birth

> > convert it in minutes and calculate the degrees travelled by

lagna

> > during this time difference and add it to sun degrees(Sun trave 1

> > degree per day approx.

> > You will get the lagna.

> > In your case you are born in September 27 so sun in september

will

> be

> > Kanya Lagan. Your time of birth is

> > 21.43

> > Sun had travellled approximately 12 degrees(27- 15) of Kanya. If

we

> > assume sun rise at

> > 7.00 clock and time 14.43 hours passed since morning so sun had

> travveled

> > 0.5 degree more since morning. Sun Degree at time of birth will

be

> 12.5

> > degree of kanya(162.5 degree).

> > *Now Calculattion for Lagna*

> > lagna travel 2 hour per rashi approx. Therefore your sun position

> > will be away from lagna at about 14.43/2=7.12 i.e 7 passed and

will

> be in

> > 8th house from sun rashi. count 8

> > backward kanya you will get tauras(2).

> > Therefore Your Lagna is tauras and is correct for all means.

> > Regards

> > Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > On 10/23/07, punjabilovebug@ <punjabilovebug@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Nirmal Bhai,

> > >

> > > Forward to our conversation please use the following birth

> details to

> > > determine the accuracy of the Lagna Sarini:

> > >

> > > Place: Toronto, Canada

> > > Time: 21:43pm

> > > September 27 1976

> > >

> > > Members who claimed to use the Lagna came up with two different

> lagnas,

> > > the first being Tula and the second being Kanya after applying

> the Lagna

> > > Sarini.

> > >

> > > Second part is to take varshphal for 31st year and to see how

> digestion or

> > > nerve problems issue should be resolved.

> > >

> > > I have sent the note to you already which you continue to

censor

> despite

> > > its factual evidence in terms of why using the Lagna Sarini

> failed. Since it

> > > has failed the astrologers who claimed success have been silent

> and without

> > > remorse.

> > >

> > > When you use foreign chart you see indication of nerve problems

> yet when

> > > you use Lagna Sarini (as confirmed by those that tried to use

> Lagna Sarini)

> > > there is no indication of these problems.

> > >

> > > They blamed me not their own inabilities to correctly apply

> remedies for

> > > benefit. Then with my response I showed all evidence and

> methodology I

> > > stepped through - a posting which you continue to censor and

> suggest I

> > > should resolve offline despite there being no logical reason

for

> me to

> > > abandon the forum on the practical application and this Sarini.

> > >

> > > In my personal case it failed because the lagna should be

Vrishab

> not Tula

> > > or Kanya and it is using Vrishab lagna and 31st varshphal that

> remedies were

> > > applied which were successful.

> > >

> > > Why do you continue to try to insulate and detract attention

from

> the

> > > inaccuracies of those astrologers who previously states claims

of

> 95%

> > > success?

> > >

> > > Did you ask them for evidence of this claim? No - so now under

> > > cross-examination of their claim with facts you should not deny

> these

> > > postings and resultingly exhibit partilality or open favoritism

> for those

> > > accused of misleading the forum on the issue of Lagna Sarini.

> > >

> > > My hope is that nobody else suffers like I did with these

> individuals own

> > > methodologies, in line with the true spirit of Lal Kitab.

> > >

> > >

> > > Best Regards,

> > > Iqbal

> > >

> > > Sent via Blackberry

> > >

> > >

> > > " Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj " <nirbhar@>

> > >

> > > Tue, 23 Oct 2007 16:49:17

> > > To:@ <%40>

 

> > > Lal Kitab Discussion Group Re: Results

> of Sarini

> > > Verification

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Iqbal Ji,

> > > Since lot of data is provided in the sarni to check and verify

> hence

> > > we will check the lagan sarni itself before coming to any

> conclusion.

> > > If the timing given in the sarni are correct then any further

> action

> > > will be required otherwise it will be not be of no use.I wish

you

> > > take the charge of data provided for April month and work on it

> and

> > > submit you finding. I am working on March.

> > > Regards

> > > Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj

> > > @ <%40>

> > > , punjabilovebug@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Also Bhai why too have you not provided any real tewa

examples

> on

> > > the topic?

> > > >

> > > > I am helping this forum uncover riddles from fact or fiction.

> > > Anything you would assume to be less than that would take away

> from

> > > the good graces you have shown in the past as moderator.

> > > >

> > > > When the debate with Lagna Sarini has been started in the

forum

> why

> > > would I finish it outside? When claims of 100% usage and 90%

> success

> > > have been claimed in the forums (and you have allowed it to be

> > > posted) why would - not challenge them in the forum?

> > > >

> > > > Your logic does not hold true. When the issue is about Lagna

> Sarini

> > > and the issue is in the forum then please don't provide

cryptic or

> > > unhelpful musings.

> > > >

> > > > How do you know what materials I have or don't have at my

> disposal?

> > > Have you ever asked me? Then why assume and embarass yourself

in

> > > doing so? Did you care to ask me as to the Urdu scholar I pay

for

> > > understanding some of the original LK volumes or the Urdu

courses

> I

> > > have taken to improve my fluency? No you do not so please don't

> > > attempt to assume you know anything about what I have read or

not.

> > > >

> > > > You should concern yourself with showing evidence of your

> implicit

> > > support of Lagna Sarini using real examples as I have.

> > > >

> > > > Best Regards,

> > > > Iqbal Bhai

> > > > USA

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Sent via Blackberry

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > NKB <nirbhar@>

> > > >

> > > > Sun, 21 Oct 2007 22:01:28

> > > > To:0Zj28LCYuRdyCgr7QGs

> <0Zj28LCYuRdyCgr7QGsYM%40>

> > > YM (AT) (DOT) <YM%40> com

> > > > Cc:@ <%40>

> > > ,

> > >

> <%40> @

> > > , lalkitab@

> <lalkitab%40>

> > > s.com

> > > > Lal Kitab Discussion Group Re:

Results

> of

> > > Sarini Verification

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear Iqbal Ji,

> > > > You earlier sent this message six times. and is not approved.

> You

> > > are a senior member that is why I have not rejected that

message.

> but

> > > Now I am sorrythatIhaveto take this step.

> > > > Iqbal Bhai, group is meant for discussion on specific issues

> > > related to astrology dictats. Your these mails have nothingfor

the

> > > members todiscuss exceptdescribing your personalrelations(good/

> > > bad)withoneofourseniormembers.

> > > > Regarding Lagan Sarni , write or wrong, None of the members

> > > including you has given any technical /solid

> > > reasonstoproveyourpoint exceptBhooshan Priya Ji, Shukla ji,

> > > Varun Trivedi,MiglaniJi, Kalsi Ji and me who have discussed it

> > > mathematically.

> > > > IqbalJiYouevendidnoteven readtheLaganSarninoryou

> > >

> > >

>

usedittomakeyourKundliyourselfwiththissarni.Whatpointdoyouthinkwedisc

ussinthismail

> > > .

> > > > You consulted Bhatia Ji or Somnath Ji, and paid money , it is

> your

> > > personnel matter. There remedies work or not it is again the

> matter

> > > between the client and server. Group will not involve itself in

> this

> > > controversy.

> > > > Bring some technical point regarding the wrong data in the

sarni

> > > that too with factual calculation, I willbethe first person to

> > > discuss the issue with you.Because group members will gain from

> such

> > > type of discussions.

> > > > But for the Group Sake please settle your individual Ranjish

at

> > > your end , donot involve group in to it.

> > > >

> > > > Iqbal Bhai, though discussions some time become hot but that

is

> a

> > > temporary moment and members recover it quickly. We love each

and

> > > every member of our group You are also one of them.

> > > Pleasedonttakerejectiononthenegativeside.since you have

> > > posted this message in other groups so i have to forward this

> > > messsage to clarify group's stand.

> > > > Let keep our attention on other issues of LalKitab.Sarni is

> > > justahelpingtoollikeacomputersoftware.Letitbeforthe

> > > personwhouseit.Sinceyou,

> > >

> > >

>

Iandmostofourmembersdonotusethissarni,andwehaveotherbettermeansthenle

tthisdiscussionbeamongstthefewmadpeopleincludingme,

> > > you are welcome to be part of this mad group but with certain

> > > technical/mathematical points.

> > > >

> > > > Regards

> > > >

> > > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------

> > > > punjabilovebug@ <punjabilovebug@>

> > > > girish_raheja@ <girish_raheja@> .co.in

> > > ,varun_trvd (AT) (DOT) <varun_trvd@> co.in

> > > > Sun, 21 Oct 2007 14:19:26 +0000

> > > > Fw: Lal Kitab Discussion Group Re: Results of Sarini

> > > Verification

> > > >

> > > > This is the posting Nirmal Ji has censored so that other

forum

> > > members may not know the truth of this debate.

> > > >

> > > > Dozens and dozens of people who supported me against the

tirade

> of

> > > those who consider themselved " holier than thou " have also seen

> this

> > > posting.

> > > >

> > > > Nirmal Bhai what is untruthful in the posting below that you

did

> > > not post it? It is 100% my own experience - why be afraid of

the

> > > truth respected Bhai?

> > > >

> > > > On one hand we want the truth and on the second hand you

refrain

> > > from sharing it.

> > > >

> > > > Best Regards,

> > > > Iqbal

> > > > USA

> > > >

> > > > Tue, 16 Oct 2007 13:23:59

> > > > To:@ <To:@ <

> > > %40> >

> > >

> > > > Re: Re: Lal Kitab Discussion Group

Re:

> > > Conrtoversy over Lagan Sarnee SOLVED FOR IQBAL

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear Nirmal Bhai,

> > > >

> > > > Please ensure your usage of examples with real upayes

prescribed

> > > for the issues being faced once the Sarine approach has been

> applied

> > > for foreign births.

> > > >

> > > > It has been one week and I have been hoping for a response

from

> > > Yograj Bhai but he is being silent on the issues of providing

> > > examples of where he himself has used this lagna sarini with

> success.

> > > >

> > > > Yograj Bhai please come forward and enlighten the group on

your

> > > application of this approach which you defended as pseudo-

> > > intelligencia in your last post. Please don't be shy and

> illustrate

> > > your points with examples for the benefits of all involved.

> > > >

> > > > Nirmal Bhai please use examples of where you may have applied

> this

> > > approach with success.

> > > >

> > > > The reason why Pandit Ji's family has not released the notes

and

> > > writings of Pandit Ji's own research is because (and I heard

this

> > > with my own ears) they wanted to make money through LK and felt

> their

> > > father (Pandit Ji) made a grave mistake in publishing the LK in

> the

> > > marketplace. They view any knowledge and research as their own

> > > prerogative free to charge for it or prevent the public from

> having

> > > it to boost their own place within the LK community. Suddenly

it

> > > becomes an issue of having " secret " or " unpublished " documents

of

> > > Pandit Ji which means that the public should give them

attention

> for

> > > they may have critical ideas and applications that are secret.

> This

> > > is their Modus Operandi and indeed also the one being used by

> forum

> > > members who are not sharing these writings, notes or thoughts

with

> > > the broader LK community.

> > > >

> > > > Nirmal Ji - Do you know that when Pandit Ji's own son cast my

> > > kundli using this approach he came up with different results

than

> > > Rajinder Bhatia? He is the one Bhatia Ji asks to look at his

own

> > > tewas and for coaching on analyzing other peoples tewas as

well.

> So I

> > > visited him and much to my surprise none of his statements

about

> my

> > > personal family or situation were true - but he claimed they

had

> to

> > > be true. Was I supposed to lie and just accept his

inaccuracies or

> > > try to uncover why this Lagna Sarini approach doesn't work for

> > > foreign births?

> > > >

> > > > Then Rajinder Bhatia applied this approach and got different

> result

> > > from Pandit Ji's son in Toronto. Yet both claim this approach

is

> > > infallible!! Then why can't they achieve similar results if

this

> is

> > > supposed to be an unspoken truth?

> > > >

> > > > Then, Rajinder Bhatia was unable to find any indiciation of

> > > problems I was facing from my kundli when using this approach.

He

> > > even told me that I think your Venus is indeed in the 6th

meaning

> my

> > > foreign birth chart and corresponding varshphal was indeed

VALID.

> > > >

> > > > Now instead of allowing my post to publish he wrote a tirade

> where

> > > he not only tried to mask his own insecurities on this issue of

> Lagna

> > > Sarini but questioned why I wasn't blaiming the doctors for my

> health

> > > issues being faced.

> > > >

> > > > When I asked him to look at my kundli he told me I know you

may

> be

> > > in pain but it would have to wait as he was writing an

> introduction

> > > to the recent publication on LK. His own desire to publish his

> > > thoughts became the prima facie instead of his desire to help

> someone

> > > in distress. Then, in his last posting on this topic he said

many

> > > things in capitalized letters which broke the rules in the

forum.

> I

> > > have not responded to that post because of its sheer insulting

> nature

> > > - If we was a decent man he would not have written such

rubbish.

> > > >

> > > > He even disclosed the personal details of his client (me) to

> > > thousands of people in the forum. What to say about moral

> > > responsibility or even common decency? I am perplexed why he

> needs to

> > > resort to shouting in his posts (through capitalized letters)

> > > breaking the protocol of the forum. He should step down as

forum

> > > moderator becuase of these actions alone. Had it been anyone

else

> he

> > > would have claimed them to be anti-LK. He also told me he also

> uses a

> > > Vedic astrologer for his own family so why has he criticized

> learned

> > > members for their postings on links between Vedic and LK

> priciples?

> > > What a double-standard!! Why not preach what one teaches?

> > > >

> > > > He himself couldn't find out which remedies to apply and

rapidly

> > > refunded my money of $100. Jokingly he remarked on how he

wasn't

> in

> > > LK for the money - at least not yet. Then in his post he told

me

> the

> > > last of my concerns should be Lagna Sarini. Is this the

language

> and

> > > approach of someone who practices LK? Does this behaviour show

> > > respect or consideration for LK values and techniques or even

for

> > > forum members?

> > > >

> > > > Then Yograj Ji you make a post where you hail him as a

> philosopher

> > > and friend - Who cares? We want to see examples and evidence of

> his

> > > claimed approach using Lagna Sarini but instead you want to

> > > personalize the discussion to distract from the debate. Forum

> members

> > > are not that dumb so please don't treat them that way as it is

> very

> > > condascending.

> > > >

> > > > I have Mercury in 5th house and was so hurt and dismayed by

this

> > > experience with him that I wanted to voice some ill words

which I

> was

> > > confident would come true. However, then there would be no

> difference

> > > between him and me and I opted to preserve moral authority and

let

> > > God himself deal with him in accordance with how he mistreated

me.

> > > >

> > > > GOOD NEWS!!! When I decided not to listen to Rajinder

Bhatia's

> ill-

> > > intended propoganda and applied remedies for Venus/Rahu in 4th

> house

> > > of varshphal my health issues were discovered by doctors and

> > > medication given. It has now been 4 weeks of taking this

> medication

> > > and my digestive and nerve problems are gone. I thank God for

> giving

> > > me the strength to persevere in practical terms to find out

> through

> > > LK why my issue was being faced and how it could be fixed.

> > > >

> > > > I want to thank all those forum members from around the world

> who

> > > wrote me to provide support for my desire to practically reap

the

> > > benefits of varshphal remedies to fix problems. There is no

need

> to

> > > indulge in intellectual gymnastics if there is no practical

> > > application. I had asked for examples dozens of time but nobody

> > > including Bhatia Ji who claims to use this approach 100% of the

> time

> > > shared them. Yograj Bhai instead of labelling discourse in this

> forum

> > > as useless please share your examples.

> > > >

> > > > I thank Vipin Shukla, Bhooshan Priya Ji, Kulbir Paji and

Miglani

> > > SahibN Nirmal Ji and the dozens of others who also did not

accept

> the

> > > propogandabeing circulated and supported me. This is the true

> spirit

> > > of Lal Kitab.

> > > >

> > > > For the record, my varshphal using my foreign location was as

> > > followed:

> > > >

> > > > 1-Moon

> > > > 2-Ketu

> > > > 4-Venus/Rahu

> > > > 7-Jupiter

> > > > 9-Sun/Mercury/Mars

> > > > 11-Saturn

> > > >

> > > > I applied remedies for Venus/Rahu, Jupiter and Saturn and

> within 2

> > > weeks doctors uncovered that toxins in my body were causing

these

> > > digestive ailments. Thankfully I am doing much better now but

only

> > > after using my foreign-birth varshphal without any re-

> calculations to

> > > Madras or elsewhere.

> > > >

> > > > Best Regards,

> > > > Iqbal

> > > > USA

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Dear Varun Ji,You might have skipped by oversight the link that I have already provided sarni pages available with me in the reply to the mail of LalKitabee Ji, for which the other moderator Mr. CP Tyagi had given the reply. I usually donot upload heavy data in group file section because of space limitations. Any how I have uploaded in the group file section.You may delete it whenever you feel space scarcity as it is also available at http://lalkitab.tripod.com/lsarni/index.html for online reference. It is nice to hear that you are keen to solve this issue. Now this issue seems to be solved once forever

RegardsNirmal Kumar BhardwajOn 10/27/07, varun_trvd <varun_trvd wrote:

Respected Kalsi ji, Inspite of our repeated requests Shri Bhardwaj ji has not uploaded any pages of the Sarini. Any such exercise that you talk of can not be taken up unless the pages are uploaded in the files section of the group. We had the January page and we uploaded that long back.

Once the pages are uploaded the members can verify the sarini data on their own selecting their own date and time and place. At least I and Chandra Prakash would do a detailed exercise on the pages as and when they are uploaded. Both of us are very familiar with Lahiri's table of Ascendants method also. Regards, Varun Trivedi

, " Shivdev Kalsi " <shivdev.kalsi wrote: > > Dear Moderators, > If Iqbal Ji's statement is stated as true, is it not wrong on the

part of > Astrologer who calculated the ascendent as Tula or Kanya as lagna for the > birth of Iqbal Ji while his Lagna should be Tauras. There may be difference > of few degrees in calculation not 3 or 4 signs.I read the sarni pages > uploaded by Sh Bhardwaj Ji and cannot find any grave error in it. In my view > only few of these fussy persons know how to use the sarni.Even the person > who introducesd the sarni had wrongly calculated the ascendent.

> Here is my proposal which shall be accepted by all the person who has doubt > about the sarni. > Let us calculate the ascendent > 1.Manually > 2. through Computer software > 3. This Sarni

> 4. And any other Lagan Sarni/means > We will submit the results in groups and compare.The task can be given > as follow > 1. For Miglani Ji > Person Name - A, DOB 15.02.1976, place Delhi, Time 15.43 > 2. For Varun Trivedi Ji > Person Name - B, DOB 15.02.1976, place Toronto,Canada, Time 15.43 > 3. For CP Tyagi > Person Name - C, DOB 15.02.1976, place Tokyo,Japan, Time 15.43 > 4. For Bhooshan Priya Ji

> Person Name - D, DOB 15.02.1976, place Lahore,Pakistan, Time 15.43 > 5. For Bhardwaj Ji > Person Name - E, DOB 15.02.1976, place Chandigarh,India, Time 15.43 > 6. For Lalkitabee Ji(He is busy, If he gets the time I request him to do it) > Person Name - F, DOB 15.02.1976, place Ambala,Haryana, Time 15.43 > 7. For Bhatia Ji > Person Name - G, DOB 15.02.1976, place New york,USA, Time 15.43 > 8. For Me > Person Name - H, DOB 15.02.1976, place Madras,India, Time 15.43 > Date Of submission of results is 15.11.2007 > If agreed by moderators we may give this proposal to members.The results may > decide the fate of sarni once for all.

> Yours > Shiv Dev Kalsi > > , NKB <nirbhar@> wrote:

> > > > Dear Iqbal Ji, > > Your Lagna stands for > > Tauras(2).It is calculated with Software as well as per the disputed > > Sarni. There might be some calculation/oversight mistake

> > done by members while calculating lagna from the sarni. > > Iqbal Bhai I tell you a fundamental thumb rule > > for calculating lagan at any place in world. Sun changes its > position

> > in mid of the month. Sun > > always rise in > > east in morning. therefore the rashi in which the sun is transiting > > will rise at the time rising of sun in morning. Speed of Lagna is 2 > > hour per house approx. > > Calculate the time difference between sunrise and time of birth > > convert it in minutes and calculate the degrees travelled by lagna > > during this time difference and add it to sun degrees(Sun trave 1

> > degree per day approx. > > You will get the lagna. > > In your case you are born in September 27 so sun in september will > be > > Kanya Lagan. Your time of birth is

> > 21.43 > > Sun had travellled approximately 12 degrees(27- 15) of Kanya. If we > > assume sun rise at > > 7.00 clock and time 14.43 hours passed since morning so sun had > travveled

> > 0.5 degree more since morning. Sun Degree at time of birth will be > 12.5 > > degree of kanya(162.5 degree). > > *Now Calculattion for Lagna* > > lagna travel 2 hour per rashi approx. Therefore your sun position

> > will be away from lagna at about 14.43/2=7.12 i.e 7 passed and will > be in > > 8th house from sun rashi. count 8 > > backward kanya you will get tauras(2). > > Therefore Your Lagna is tauras and is correct for all means.

> > Regards > > Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj > > > > > > > > > > On 10/23/07, punjabilovebug@ <punjabilovebug@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Nirmal Bhai,

> > > > > > Forward to our conversation please use the following birth > details to > > > determine the accuracy of the Lagna Sarini: > > > > > > Place: Toronto, Canada

> > > Time: 21:43pm > > > September 27 1976 > > > > > > Members who claimed to use the Lagna came up with two different > lagnas, > > > the first being Tula and the second being Kanya after applying

> the Lagna > > > Sarini. > > > > > > Second part is to take varshphal for 31st year and to see how > digestion or > > > nerve problems issue should be resolved.

> > > > > > I have sent the note to you already which you continue to censor > despite > > > its factual evidence in terms of why using the Lagna Sarini > failed. Since it

> > > has failed the astrologers who claimed success have been silent > and without > > > remorse. > > > > > > When you use foreign chart you see indication of nerve problems

> yet when > > > you use Lagna Sarini (as confirmed by those that tried to use > Lagna Sarini) > > > there is no indication of these problems. > > > > > > They blamed me not their own inabilities to correctly apply

> remedies for > > > benefit. Then with my response I showed all evidence and > methodology I > > > stepped through - a posting which you continue to censor and > suggest I

> > > should resolve offline despite there being no logical reason for > me to > > > abandon the forum on the practical application and this Sarini. > > > > > > In my personal case it failed because the lagna should be Vrishab > not Tula > > > or Kanya and it is using Vrishab lagna and 31st varshphal that > remedies were > > > applied which were successful. > > > > > > Why do you continue to try to insulate and detract attention from > the > > > inaccuracies of those astrologers who previously states claims of > 95% > > > success? > > > > > > Did you ask them for evidence of this claim? No - so now under

> > > cross-examination of their claim with facts you should not deny > these > > > postings and resultingly exhibit partilality or open favoritism > for those > > > accused of misleading the forum on the issue of Lagna Sarini.

> > > > > > My hope is that nobody else suffers like I did with these > individuals own > > > methodologies, in line with the true spirit of Lal Kitab. > > >

> > > > > > Best Regards, > > > Iqbal > > > > > > Sent via Blackberry > > > > > > > > > " Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj " <nirbhar@>

> > > > > > Tue, 23 Oct 2007 16:49:17 > > >

> > > Lal Kitab Discussion Group Re: Results > of Sarini > > > Verification > > > > > > > > > Dear Iqbal Ji, > > > Since lot of data is provided in the sarni to check and verify

> hence > > > we will check the lagan sarni itself before coming to any > conclusion. > > > If the timing given in the sarni are correct then any further > action > > > will be required otherwise it will be not be of no use.I wish you > > > take the charge of data provided for April month and work on it > and > > > submit you finding. I am working on March. > > > Regards > > > Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj

> > > @ <%40> > > > , punjabilovebug@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Also Bhai why too have you not provided any real tewa examples

> on > > > the topic? > > > > > > > > I am helping this forum uncover riddles from fact or fiction. > > > Anything you would assume to be less than that would take away

> from > > > the good graces you have shown in the past as moderator. > > > > > > > > When the debate with Lagna Sarini has been started in the forum > why

> > > would I finish it outside? When claims of 100% usage and 90% > success > > > have been claimed in the forums (and you have allowed it to be > > > posted) why would - not challenge them in the forum?

> > > > > > > > Your logic does not hold true. When the issue is about Lagna > Sarini > > > and the issue is in the forum then please don't provide cryptic or

> > > unhelpful musings. > > > > > > > > How do you know what materials I have or don't have at my > disposal? > > > Have you ever asked me? Then why assume and embarass yourself in

> > > doing so? Did you care to ask me as to the Urdu scholar I pay for > > > understanding some of the original LK volumes or the Urdu courses > I > > > have taken to improve my fluency? No you do not so please don't

> > > attempt to assume you know anything about what I have read or not. > > > > > > > > You should concern yourself with showing evidence of your > implicit > > > support of Lagna Sarini using real examples as I have.

> > > > > > > > Best Regards, > > > > Iqbal Bhai > > > > USA > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent via Blackberry

> > > > > > > > > > > > NKB <nirbhar@> > > > > > > > > Sun, 21 Oct 2007 22:01:28 > > > > To:0Zj28LCYuRdyCgr7QGs

> <0Zj28LCYuRdyCgr7QGsYM%40> > > >

YM > > > > Cc:@ <%40

> > > > , > > > > <

%40> @ > > > , lalkitab@ > <

lalkitab%40> > > >

s.com > > > > Lal Kitab Discussion Group Re: Results > of > > > Sarini Verification > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Iqbal Ji,

> > > > You earlier sent this message six times. and is not approved. > You > > > are a senior member that is why I have not rejected that message. > but > > > Now I am sorrythatIhaveto take this step.

> > > > Iqbal Bhai, group is meant for discussion on specific issues > > > related to astrology dictats. Your these mails have nothingfor the > > > members todiscuss exceptdescribing your personalrelations(good/

> > > bad)withoneofourseniormembers. > > > > Regarding Lagan Sarni , write or wrong, None of the members > > > including you has given any technical /solid > > > reasonstoproveyourpoint exceptBhooshan Priya Ji, Shukla ji,

> > > Varun Trivedi,MiglaniJi, Kalsi Ji and me who have discussed it > > > mathematically. > > > > IqbalJiYouevendidnoteven readtheLaganSarninoryou > > > > > >

> usedittomakeyourKundliyourselfwiththissarni.Whatpointdoyouthinkwediscu ssinthismail > > > . > > > > You consulted Bhatia Ji or Somnath Ji, and paid money , it is > your

> > > personnel matter. There remedies work or not it is again the > matter > > > between the client and server. Group will not involve itself in > this > > > controversy.

> > > > Bring some technical point regarding the wrong data in the sarni > > > that too with factual calculation, I willbethe first person to > > > discuss the issue with you.Because

group members will gain from > such > > > type of discussions. > > > > But for the Group Sake please settle your individual Ranjish at > > > your end , donot involve group in to it.

> > > > > > > > Iqbal Bhai, though discussions some time become hot but that is > a > > > temporary moment and members recover it quickly. We love each and

> > > every member of our group You are also one of them. > > > Pleasedonttakerejectiononthenegativeside.since you have > > > posted this message in other groups so i have to forward this

> > > messsage to clarify group's stand. > > > > Let keep our attention on other issues of LalKitab.Sarni is > > > justahelpingtoollikeacomputersoftware.Letitbeforthe > > > personwhouseit.Sinceyou, > > > > > > > Iandmostofourmembersdonotusethissarni,andwehaveotherbettermeansthenlet thisdiscussionbeamongstthefewmadpeopleincludingme, > > > you are welcome to be part of this mad group but with certain

> > > technical/mathematical points. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > > > punjabilovebug@ <

punjabilovebug@>

> > > > girish_raheja@ <girish_raheja@>

.co.in > > > ,varun_trvd (AT) (DOT) <varun_trvd@>

co.in > > > > Sun, 21 Oct 2007 14:19:26 +0000 > > > > Fw: Lal Kitab Discussion Group Re: Results of Sarini > > > Verification > > > > > > > > This is the posting Nirmal Ji has censored so that other forum

> > > members may not know the truth of this debate. > > > > > > > > Dozens and dozens of people who supported me against the tirade > of > > > those who consider themselved " holier than thou " have also seen

> this > > > posting. > > > > > > > > Nirmal Bhai what is untruthful in the posting below that you did > > > not post it? It is 100% my own experience - why be afraid of the

> > > truth respected Bhai? > > > > > > > > On one hand we want the truth and on the second hand you refrain > > > from sharing it. > > > >

> > > > Best Regards, > > > > Iqbal > > > > USA > > > > > > > > Tue, 16 Oct 2007 13:23:59 > > > > To:@ <

To:@ > > %40>

> > > > > > > > Re: Re: Lal Kitab Discussion Group Re: > > > Conrtoversy over Lagan Sarnee SOLVED FOR IQBAL > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Nirmal Bhai, > > > > > > > > Please ensure your usage of examples with real upayes prescribed > > > for the issues being faced once the Sarine approach has been > applied > > > for foreign births. > > > > > > > > It has been one week and I have been hoping for a response from > > > Yograj Bhai but he is being silent on the issues of providing > > > examples of where he himself has used this lagna sarini with > success. > > > > > > > > Yograj Bhai please come forward and enlighten the group on your > > > application of this approach which you defended as pseudo- > > > intelligencia in your last post. Please don't be shy and > illustrate > > > your points with examples for the benefits of all involved.

> > > > > > > > Nirmal Bhai please use examples of where you may have applied > this > > > approach with success. > > > > > > > > The reason why Pandit Ji's family has not released the notes and > > > writings of Pandit Ji's own research is because (and I heard this > > > with my own ears) they wanted to make money through LK and felt > their > > > father (Pandit Ji) made a grave mistake in publishing the LK in

> the > > > marketplace. They view any knowledge and research as their own > > > prerogative free to charge for it or prevent the public from > having > > > it to boost their own place within the LK community. Suddenly it

> > > becomes an issue of having " secret " or " unpublished " documents of > > > Pandit Ji which means that the public should give them attention > for > > > they may have critical ideas and applications that are secret.

> This > > > is their Modus Operandi and indeed also the one being used by > forum > > > members who are not sharing these writings, notes or thoughts with > > > the broader LK community.

> > > > > > > > Nirmal Ji - Do you know that when Pandit Ji's own son cast my > > > kundli using this approach he came up with different results than > > > Rajinder Bhatia? He is the one Bhatia Ji asks to look at his own

> > > tewas and for coaching on analyzing other peoples tewas as well. > So I > > > visited him and much to my surprise none of his statements about > my > > > personal family or situation were true - but he claimed they had

> to > > > be true. Was I supposed to lie and just accept his inaccuracies or > > > try to uncover why this Lagna Sarini approach doesn't work for > > > foreign births?

> > > > > > > > Then Rajinder Bhatia applied this approach and got different > result > > > from Pandit Ji's son in Toronto. Yet both claim this approach is > > > infallible!! Then why can't they achieve similar results if this

> is > > > supposed to be an unspoken truth? > > > > > > > > Then, Rajinder Bhatia was unable to find any indiciation of > > > problems I was facing from my kundli when using this approach. He > > > even told me that I think your Venus is indeed in the 6th meaning > my > > > foreign birth chart and corresponding varshphal was indeed VALID. > > > >

> > > > Now instead of allowing my post to publish he wrote a tirade > where > > > he not only tried to mask his own insecurities on this issue of > Lagna > > > Sarini but questioned why I wasn't blaiming the doctors for my

> health > > > issues being faced. > > > > > > > > When I asked him to look at my kundli he told me I know you may > be > > > in pain but it would have to wait as he was writing an

> introduction > > > to the recent publication on LK. His own desire to publish his > > > thoughts became the prima facie instead of his desire to help > someone > > > in distress. Then, in his last posting on this topic he said many > > > things in capitalized letters which broke the rules in the forum. > I > > > have not responded to that post because of its sheer insulting > nature > > > - If we was a decent man he would not have written such rubbish.

> > > > > > > > He even disclosed the personal details of his client (me) to > > > thousands of people in the forum. What to say about moral > > > responsibility or even common decency? I am perplexed why he

> needs to > > > resort to shouting in his posts (through capitalized letters) > > > breaking the protocol of the forum. He should step down as forum > > > moderator becuase of these actions alone. Had it been anyone else > he > > > would have claimed them to be anti-LK. He also told me he also > uses a > > > Vedic astrologer for his own family so why has he criticized > learned > > > members for their postings on links between Vedic and LK

> priciples? > > > What a double-standard!! Why not preach what one teaches? > > > > > > > > He himself couldn't find out which remedies to apply and rapidly

> > > refunded my money of $100. Jokingly he remarked on how he wasn't > in > > > LK for the money - at least not yet. Then in his post he told me > the > > > last of my concerns should be Lagna Sarini. Is this the language

> and > > > approach of someone who practices LK? Does this behaviour show > > > respect or consideration for LK values and techniques or even for > > > forum members?

> > > > > > > > Then Yograj Ji you make a post where you hail him as a > philosopher > > > and friend - Who cares? We want to see examples and evidence of > his > > > claimed approach using Lagna Sarini but instead you want to

> > > personalize the discussion to distract from the debate. Forum > members > > > are not that dumb so please don't treat them that way as it is > very > > > condascending.

> > > > > > > > I have Mercury in 5th house and was so hurt and dismayed by this > > > experience with him that I wanted to voice some ill words which I > was

> > > confident would come true. However, then there would be no > difference > > > between him and me and I opted to preserve moral authority and let > > > God himself deal with him in accordance with how he mistreated me. > > > > > > > > GOOD NEWS!!! When I decided not to listen to Rajinder Bhatia's > ill- > > > intended propoganda and applied remedies for Venus/Rahu in 4th

> house > > > of varshphal my health issues were discovered by doctors and > > > medication given. It has now been 4 weeks of taking this > medication > > > and my digestive and nerve problems are gone. I thank God for

> giving > > > me the strength to persevere in practical terms to find out > through > > > LK why my issue was being faced and how it could be fixed. > > > > > > > > I want to thank all those forum members from around the world

> who > > > wrote me to provide support for my desire to practically reap the > > > benefits of varshphal remedies to fix problems. There is no need > to > > > indulge in intellectual gymnastics if there is no practical

> > > application. I had asked for examples dozens of time but nobody > > > including Bhatia Ji who claims to use this approach 100% of the > time > > > shared them. Yograj Bhai instead of labelling discourse in this

> forum > > > as useless please share your examples. > > > > > > > > I thank Vipin Shukla, Bhooshan Priya Ji, Kulbir Paji and Miglani > > > SahibN Nirmal Ji and the dozens of others who also did not accept > the > > > propogandabeing circulated and supported me. This is the true > spirit > > > of Lal Kitab. > > > > > > > > For the record, my varshphal using my foreign location was as

> > > followed: > > > > > > > > 1-Moon > > > > 2-Ketu > > > > 4-Venus/Rahu > > > > 7-Jupiter > > > > 9-Sun/Mercury/Mars

> > > > 11-Saturn > > > > > > > > I applied remedies for Venus/Rahu, Jupiter and Saturn and > within 2 > > > weeks doctors uncovered that toxins in my body were causing these > > > digestive ailments. Thankfully I am doing much better now but only > > > after using my foreign-birth varshphal without any re- > calculations to > > > Madras or elsewhere.

> > > > > > > > Best Regards, > > > > Iqbal > > > > USA > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > >