Guest guest Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 This is the posting Nirmal Ji has censored so that other forum members may not know the truth of this debate. Dozens and dozens of people who supported me against the tirade of those who consider themselved " holier than thou " have also seen this posting. Nirmal Bhai what is untruthful in the posting below that you did not post it? It is 100% my own experience - why be afraid of the truth respected Bhai? On one hand we want the truth and on the second hand you refrain from sharing it. Best Regards, Iqbal USA Tue, 16 Oct 2007 13:23:59 Re: Re: Lal Kitab Discussion Group Re: Conrtoversy over Lagan Sarnee SOLVED FOR IQBAL Dear Nirmal Bhai, Please ensure your usage of examples with real upayes prescribed for the issues being faced once the Sarine approach has been applied for foreign births. It has been one week and I have been hoping for a response from Yograj Bhai but he is being silent on the issues of providing examples of where he himself has used this lagna sarini with success. Yograj Bhai please come forward and enlighten the group on your application of this approach which you defended as pseudo-intelligencia in your last post. Please don't be shy and illustrate your points with examples for the benefits of all involved. Nirmal Bhai please use examples of where you may have applied this approach with success. The reason why Pandit Ji's family has not released the notes and writings of Pandit Ji's own research is because (and I heard this with my own ears) they wanted to make money through LK and felt their father (Pandit Ji) made a grave mistake in publishing the LK in the marketplace. They view any knowledge and research as their own prerogative free to charge for it or prevent the public from having it to boost their own place within the LK community. Suddenly it becomes an issue of having " secret " or " unpublished " documents of Pandit Ji which means that the public should give them attention for they may have critical ideas and applications that are secret. This is their Modus Operandi and indeed also the one being used by forum members who are not sharing these writings, notes or thoughts with the broader LK community. Nirmal Ji - Do you know that when Pandit Ji's own son cast my kundli using this approach he came up with different results than Rajinder Bhatia? He is the one Bhatia Ji asks to look at his own tewas and for coaching on analyzing other peoples tewas as well. So I visited him and much to my surprise none of his statements about my personal family or situation were true - but he claimed they had to be true. Was I supposed to lie and just accept his inaccuracies or try to uncover why this Lagna Sarini approach doesn't work for foreign births? Then Rajinder Bhatia applied this approach and got different result from Pandit Ji's son in Toronto. Yet both claim this approach is infallible!! Then why can't they achieve similar results if this is supposed to be an unspoken truth? Then, Rajinder Bhatia was unable to find any indiciation of problems I was facing from my kundli when using this approach. He even told me that I think your Venus is indeed in the 6th meaning my foreign birth chart and corresponding varshphal was indeed VALID. Now instead of allowing my post to publish he wrote a tirade where he not only tried to mask his own insecurities on this issue of Lagna Sarini but questioned why I wasn't blaiming the doctors for my health issues being faced. When I asked him to look at my kundli he told me I know you may be in pain but it would have to wait as he was writing an introduction to the recent publication on LK. His own desire to publish his thoughts became the prima facie instead of his desire to help someone in distress. Then, in his last posting on this topic he said many things in capitalized letters which broke the rules in the forum. I have not responded to that post because of its sheer insulting nature - If we was a decent man he would not have written such rubbish. He even disclosed the personal details of his client (me) to thousands of people in the forum. What to say about moral responsibility or even common decency? I am perplexed why he needs to resort to shouting in his posts (through capitalized letters) breaking the protocol of the forum. He should step down as forum moderator becuase of these actions alone. Had it been anyone else he would have claimed them to be anti-LK. He also told me he also uses a Vedic astrologer for his own family so why has he criticized learned members for their postings on links between Vedic and LK priciples? What a double-standard!! Why not preach what one teaches? He himself couldn't find out which remedies to apply and rapidly refunded my money of $100. Jokingly he remarked on how he wasn't in LK for the money - at least not yet. Then in his post he told me the last of my concerns should be Lagna Sarini. Is this the language and approach of someone who practices LK? Does this behaviour show respect or consideration for LK values and techniques or even for forum members? Then Yograj Ji you make a post where you hail him as a philosopher and friend - Who cares? We want to see examples and evidence of his claimed approach using Lagna Sarini but instead you want to personalize the discussion to distract from the debate. Forum members are not that dumb so please don't treat them that way as it is very condascending. I have Mercury in 5th house and was so hurt and dismayed by this experience with him that I wanted to voice some ill words which I was confident would come true. However, then there would be no difference between him and me and I opted to preserve moral authority and let God himself deal with him in accordance with how he mistreated me. GOOD NEWS!!! When I decided not to listen to Rajinder Bhatia's ill-intended propoganda and applied remedies for Venus/Rahu in 4th house of varshphal my health issues were discovered by doctors and medication given. It has now been 4 weeks of taking this medication and my digestive and nerve problems are gone. I thank God for giving me the strength to persevere in practical terms to find out through LK why my issue was being faced and how it could be fixed. I want to thank all those forum members from around the world who wrote me to provide support for my desire to practically reap the benefits of varshphal remedies to fix problems. There is no need to indulge in intellectual gymnastics if there is no practical application. I had asked for examples dozens of time but nobody including Bhatia Ji who claims to use this approach 100% of the time shared them. Yograj Bhai instead of labelling discourse in this forum as useless please share your examples. I thank Vipin Shukla, Bhooshan Priya Ji, Kulbir Paji and Miglani SahibN Nirmal Ji and the dozens of others who also did not accept the propogandabeing circulated and supported me. This is the true spirit of Lal Kitab. For the record, my varshphal using my foreign location was as followed: 1-Moon 2-Ketu 4-Venus/Rahu 7-Jupiter 9-Sun/Mercury/Mars 11-Saturn I applied remedies for Venus/Rahu, Jupiter and Saturn and within 2 weeks doctors uncovered that toxins in my body were causing these digestive ailments. Thankfully I am doing much better now but only after using my foreign-birth varshphal without any re-calculations to Madras or elsewhere. Best Regards, Iqbal USA Sent via Blackberry " varun_trvd " <varun_trvd Sun, 21 Oct 2007 07:41:55 Lal Kitab Discussion Group Re: Results of Sarini Verification Respected Raheja ji, Thank you very much for having devoted your time on this exercise. I also did yet another exercise for the same dates and the same rising signs which you have picked up. I have changed two parameters for my verification.I have examined the same on the following parameters: [ a ] Longitude 82E30 for earstwhile Madras time now known IST [ b ] Latitude 13N04 for Madras, assuming that if the time is of Madras then logically the latitude should also be selected that of Madras.[ changed parameter] [ c ] Ayanansh at 23 degrees assuming that the sarini might have been calculated at that Ayanansh.The current Ayanansh is 23d58m02s.[ changed parameter], [ d ] Using two softwares, Junior Jyotish and Jagannath Hora [version 3] My results are : January 1, 2007 Sarini shows cancer rising at 5:58pm. With the above parameters at that time the Lagna is 21Ge35. The cancer is not due till 6:34:45pm January 7, 2007 Sarini shows Taurus rising at 1:23pm. At that time with above parameters the lagna is at 20Ar30. The Taurus is not due till 1:58:15pm. January 15, 2007 sarini shows Leo rising at 7:21pm. At that time with the above parameters the lagna is 23Cn14. Leo is not due till 7:49:15pm January 21,2007 Sarini shows Pisces rising at 9:32am. At that time with above parameters the lagna is 28Aq43. The Pisces is not due till 9:37:30pm January 28, 2007 Sarini shows Gemini rising at 1:53pm. At that time with above parameters the Lagna is at 19Ta24. The Gemini is not due till 2:37:15pm I also agree with your findings that the sarini does not give accurate lagna degrees. Therefore as a Jyotish tool it can not be used in the contemporary context. With regards, Varun Trivedi <%40> @, Girish Raheja <girish_raheja wrote: > > Respected Sirs, > > There has been such a lot of debate on the accuracy of the lagna Sarini that out of curiosity I wanted to verify myself whether the sarini is accurate or not. > > I picked up a date for each week and selected a Rasi to verify whether the rising and the ending times match. The longitude selected has to be 82E30 because the Sarini is said to be based on what was then known as Madras time and is now known as Indian Standard Time [ IST ]. The latitude selected was 26 North. > > Those who want to verify this sarini can select a latitude of their own. The longitude has to be the same that I have selected because it has been already fixed in terms of Madras time or IST. > > I used the most advanced Jyotish software known as Jagannath Hora version 7.2. Here are my findings : > > January 1: > > Kark : the rising time shown in the Sarini = 5:58pm ; the ending time shown = 8:20pm > > Result > At 5:58pm it is mithun at 26d01. The Kark has not risen yet as shown in the sarini. Instead the Kark rises at 6:17pm, a difference of 19 minutes > Similarly it does not set at 8:20pm instead it sets at 8:33:30pm, a difference of over 13 minutes. > > January 7 : > > Brishabh : Rising time shown in the Sarini 1:23pm ; the setting time : 3:17pm > > Result > At 1:23pm the lagna is at 24Ar30. The Brishabh has not risen yet as shown in the Sarini. It rises at 1:40:30pm , a difference of 17 minutes. > > Similarly the Brishabh doesn?t set at 3:17pm and instead sets at 3:36:30pm, a difference of 19 minutes. > > January 15 > > Sinh : The rising time shown in the Sarini 7:21pm ; the setting time 9:43pm > > Result > At 7:21pm the lagna is at 25ca56. The Sinh has not risen yet as shown in the Sarini. It rises at 7:36:30pm instead, a difference of 15 minutes. > Similarly it doesn?t set at 9:43pm and instead sets at 9:54:45pm, a difference of 11 minutes. > > January 21 > > Meen : The rising time shown in the Sarini is 9:32am; setting time shown 10:53am > > Result > At 9:32am the lagna is 26Aq35. The meen hasn?t risen yet as shown in the Sarini. Meen rises at 9:42am instead, a difference of 10 minutes. > Similarly it doesn?t set at 10:53am. It sets at 11:8:30am, a difference of 15 minutes. > > January 28 > > Mithun : The rising time shown in the sarini is 1:53pm, the setting time shown 4:7pm > > Result > At 1:53pm the Lagna is 24Ta26. The Mithun has not risen yet, it rises at 2:13:30pm instead, a difference of 19 minutes > > Similarly it Mithun does not set at 4:7 pm as shown in the sarini , it sets at 4:29:15pm, a difference of 22 minutes > > Therefore, I believe that the Sarini does not give the real value of the Lagna degrees. > > Any body who thinks that the sarini gives accurate results should come up with an exercise like I have done so that we could also verify his claim. A claim to its accuracy can not be accepted unless a similar verification is made public. > > With respect > > Girish Raheja > > > > > > Get the freedom to save as many mails as you wish. Click here to know how. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 Respected members, I was keeping quiet during the whole debate on this Sarini. The reason is simple, for all I care, let people use this sarini and get embarrassed. We as a small group of Lal Kitab students will not use this Sarini because we do not want to be ridiculed by our fellow astrologers from the Traditional System. We are not living in isolation; we are living in a very enlightened community of astrologers who have devoted their entire life to this science. We not only have to be rational, we have to appear to be rational also. This Sunday I had some time on my hands and I thought of doing some looking into this sarini. Here are the results. You take it or leave it. I have no stakes. I know what I should do. Out of curiosity I also verified the lagna Sarini results for a birth at Bangalore. The coordinates of Bangalore used are Long 77E36 ; Lat 12N58. I have also taken into account the Ayanansh at 23d30’, a value which came into effect in 1973. Therefore even if the Sarini was published after 1973 the Ayanansh will hold good. Therefore my verification is for a birth at Bangalore with Ayanansh at 23d30’. Since the Sarini gives the IST time for rising and setting of the signs therefore the time correction for Bangalore has to be made. The time difference of Bangalore is 19minutes 36 seconds from the IST. Bangalore is in the west of IST meridian of 82E30 therefore the difference of time will have to be added to the IST. Some thing that rises in the east will rise later [ by the difference of time ] in the west therefore the time-difference has to be added January 4, 1974 Bangalore [ 77E36; 12N58] Sign : Aries Sarini times : Rise at 12:9 pm ; sets at 1:36pm Bangalore time ; Rise 12:28:36pm [ 12:9 + 19m36s ] ; sets at 1:55:36 pm [ 1:36 + 19m36s] Check rising :- At 12;28;36pm lagna shown is 25Pi27 that means that the Pisces is not over yet. The Aries rises at 12:44pm = a difference of 16 minute. Check setting : At 1:55:36 the Lagna is 20Ar19 ; Aries is not over yet another 10 degrees to go. It sets at 2:32pm = a difference of 37minutes. January 12, 1974 Bangalore [ 77E36 ; 12N58 ] Sign : Taurus Sarini Time : Rises at 1pm ; sets at 2:54pm Bangalore time ; rising at 1:19:36pm ; setting at 3:13:36 Check rising : At 1:19:36pm the Lagna is 19Ar04 ; Aries has to complete another 11degrees before Taurus rises. The Lagna Taurus rises at 2:0 pm = a difference of 41 minutes {phew!!} Check setting : At 3:13:36pm the Lagna is 18Ta25, Taurus has more than 11 degrees to complete yet. Taurus sets at 4:2pm = a difference of 48 minute [sic !!] January 24, 1974 Bangalore [ 77E36;12N58] Gemini Sarini times : rises at 2:6pm ; sets at 4:20pm Bangalore time : rise at 2:25:36pm ; set at 4:39:36pm Check rising : At 2:25:36 the lagna is 18Ta13 ; Taurus rises at 3:15pm = a difference of 40 minutes Check setting : At 4:20pm the lagna is 19Ge21 ; it sets at 5:26pm = a difference of 46 minutes. I did this exercise to show what happens if we try to find a lagna through this Sarini for places beyond the coordinates the Sarini had been calculated for. This is what happens for the cities within India; one can imagin what would happen if we started calculating the lagna for births abroad. With regards, Chandra Prakash , " varun_trvd " <varun_trvd wrote: > > Respected Raheja ji, > > Thank you very much for having devoted your time on this exercise. > > I also did yet another exercise for the same dates and the same > rising signs which you have picked up. I have changed two parameters > for my verification.I have examined the same on the following > parameters: > > [ a ] Longitude 82E30 for earstwhile Madras time now known IST > [ b ] Latitude 13N04 for Madras, assuming that if the time is of > Madras then logically the latitude should also be selected that of > Madras.[ changed parameter] > [ c ] Ayanansh at 23 degrees assuming that the sarini might have > been calculated at that Ayanansh.The current Ayanansh is 23d58m02s. [ > changed parameter], > [ d ] Using two softwares, Junior Jyotish and Jagannath Hora > [version 3] > > My results are : > > January 1, 2007 > > Sarini shows cancer rising at 5:58pm. With the above parameters at > that time the Lagna is 21Ge35. The cancer is not due till 6:34:45pm > > January 7, 2007 > > Sarini shows Taurus rising at 1:23pm. At that time with above > parameters the lagna is at 20Ar30. The Taurus is not due till > 1:58:15pm. > > January 15, 2007 > > sarini shows Leo rising at 7:21pm. At that time with the above > parameters the lagna is 23Cn14. Leo is not due till 7:49:15pm > > January 21,2007 > > Sarini shows Pisces rising at 9:32am. At that time with above > parameters the lagna is 28Aq43. The Pisces is not due till 9:37:30pm > > January 28, 2007 > > Sarini shows Gemini rising at 1:53pm. At that time with above > parameters the Lagna is at 19Ta24. The Gemini is not due till > 2:37:15pm > > I also agree with your findings that the sarini does not give > accurate lagna degrees. Therefore as a Jyotish tool it can not be > used in the contemporary context. > > With regards, > > Varun Trivedi > > > > > > > > > > > , Girish Raheja > <girish_raheja@> wrote: > > > > Respected Sirs, > > > > There has been such a lot of debate on the accuracy of the lagna > Sarini that out of curiosity I wanted to verify myself whether the > sarini is accurate or not. > > > > I picked up a date for each week and selected a Rasi to verify > whether the rising and the ending times match. The longitude > selected has to be 82E30 because the Sarini is said to be based on > what was then known as Madras time and is now known as Indian > Standard Time [ IST ]. The latitude selected was 26 North. > > > > Those who want to verify this sarini can select a latitude of > their own. The longitude has to be the same that I have selected > because it has been already fixed in terms of Madras time or IST. > > > > I used the most advanced Jyotish software known as Jagannath > Hora version 7.2. Here are my findings : > > > > January 1: > > > > Kark : the rising time shown in the Sarini = 5:58pm ; the > ending time shown = 8:20pm > > > > Result > At 5:58pm it is mithun at 26d01. The Kark has not > risen yet as shown in the sarini. Instead the Kark rises at 6:17pm, > a difference of 19 minutes > > Similarly it does not set at 8:20pm instead it sets at > 8:33:30pm, a difference of over 13 minutes. > > > > January 7 : > > > > Brishabh : Rising time shown in the Sarini 1:23pm ; the setting > time : 3:17pm > > > > Result > At 1:23pm the lagna is at 24Ar30. The Brishabh has not > risen yet as shown in the Sarini. It rises at 1:40:30pm , a > difference of 17 minutes. > > > > Similarly the Brishabh doesn?t set at 3:17pm and instead sets at > 3:36:30pm, a difference of 19 minutes. > > > > January 15 > > > > Sinh : The rising time shown in the Sarini 7:21pm ; the setting > time 9:43pm > > > > Result > At 7:21pm the lagna is at 25ca56. The Sinh has not > risen yet as shown in the Sarini. It rises at 7:36:30pm instead, a > difference of 15 minutes. > > Similarly it doesn?t set at 9:43pm and instead sets at > 9:54:45pm, a difference of 11 minutes. > > > > January 21 > > > > Meen : The rising time shown in the Sarini is 9:32am; setting > time shown 10:53am > > > > Result > At 9:32am the lagna is 26Aq35. The meen hasn?t risen > yet as shown in the Sarini. Meen rises at 9:42am instead, a > difference of 10 minutes. > > Similarly it doesn?t set at 10:53am. It sets at 11:8:30am, a > difference of 15 minutes. > > > > January 28 > > > > Mithun : The rising time shown in the sarini is 1:53pm, the > setting time shown 4:7pm > > > > Result > At 1:53pm the Lagna is 24Ta26. The Mithun has not risen > yet, it rises at 2:13:30pm instead, a difference of 19 minutes > > > > Similarly it Mithun does not set at 4:7 pm as shown in the > sarini , it sets at 4:29:15pm, a difference of 22 minutes > > > > Therefore, I believe that the Sarini does not give the real > value of the Lagna degrees. > > > > Any body who thinks that the sarini gives accurate results > should come up with an exercise like I have done so that we could > also verify his claim. A claim to its accuracy can not be accepted > unless a similar verification is made public. > > > > With respect > > > > Girish Raheja > > > > > > > > > > > > Get the freedom to save as many mails as you wish. Click here to > know how. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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