Controversy over Lagan Sarini

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Very right,miglani ji, there is a saying 'gahde ke sar par quran rakh do to wah mulla nahin ban jata' the essence lies in understanding the concepts. let's be fair to lalkitab. if there is any corrcetion required in this lagn srani this should be done. at least we should try when we have parashari scholars like ur gudself and Sh. shivdev singh kalsi having thorough understanding of atronomy and matematics. as varun ji humbly accepted that many concepts like rashiphal no. ke hisab se bolne wale grah, dokhe ke grah, mahadasha and many masnui combinations are yet to be solved. surprisingly people call it a jinda granth and in the same breath call discussions as a post mortem. as far my knowledge post mortem is not conducted on jinda things. shashtrarth have been an integralpart of our tradition since ages and dicussions on lalkitab does not means blasphamy. let's hope this group carries on the tradition of shashtrarth and

lalkitab gets due respect that it deserves. kulbir bains kpmiglani <kpmiglani wrote: Respected Nirmal ji,Yes you are right that the controversy is not over yet after shri Bhatia ji quoting Pandit Rupchandji himself saying that his sarini has "violated the laws".Now this adds a very serious and a very crucial dimension to the whole controversy. Now the questions are :-Should a sarini which has violated the Laws be accepted as a standard

tool of analysis?Can such a sarini be acceptable to the community of astrologers at large like the Vedic, KP,western sayan system etc?What will be the image of the Lal Kitabists insisting to use a tool which has violated the Laws"?How will it effect the acceptability of the Lal Kitab system as a logical system within the Astrology community at large?What would be the possibility of the Lal Kitabists being turned out-castes by the community of astrologers?There could be many more such questions which could have far reaching implications.Regards,KP Miglani , NKB <nirbhar wrote:>> Dear Miglani Ji,> Controversy is not over yet till full Sarni is made available to all the> members. I feel that full sarni is also not available with either of the>

four who started this controversy, otherwise this wrong , incorrect ,> misleading facts, as unearthed by Mr Kalsi in his mails, as presented to the> members by few astrologers on the basis of few pages only. I thank Mr Kalsi> to bring facts about few myths of these persons. People must know truth> behind this controversy. I have uploaded the pages available with me and> will provide these links tomorrow.> > Regarding 'accepting that the Lagna for some one born abroad can not be> found out through this Sarini under discussion, I have given my view for all> general sarnis, not with this particular sarni because full sarni is not> availbale with me till now and may be available with me in day or two.> > We still have to clear the following doubts in the minds of members created> by this controversy :> 1. Whether the Lagan Sarni is correct -

(Stated to be wrong by few members)> 2. Whether the sarni is based upon Madras Time or Allahabad Time> 3. Whether Ayaansha factor is deducted or not> 4. This sarni is made for which year> 5. Finally How this sarni be used for foriegn birth.> From Mails, it is understood that LalKitabee Ji is translating this sarni in> Hindi also. This will help other members to know the contents and decipher> it.> Persons are working on the urdu sarni also and will bring truth within week.> Regards> Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj> > > On 10/13/07, kpmiglani <kpmiglani wrote:> >> > Respected Varun ji,> >> > The controversy seems to be over now. Respected Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj> > ji in a message in another group has accepted that the Lagna for some> > one born abroad can not be found out through the Sarini

under> > discussion. One will have to use either the NC Lahiri's Table of> > Ascendants or one of the available softwares to find the Lagna.> >> > It might be true that Pt. Rupchand ji used this Sarini to find out> > the Lagna for those born abroad, but there is no comparision between> > us and Pt. Rupchand ji. He was a siddha purush. He probably didn't> > need a Sarini or a software to know the Lagna of a native.Pt.> > Rupchand ji could draw the entire kundali by just looking at a> > photograph of a person; can any one of us do that?> >> > The relevance of the Sarini was being discussed in the context of us> > mortals and not in relation to a visionary siddha like Pt. Rupchand> > ji.> >> > For ordinary men like us this Sarini will be of no use for any birth> > abroad or for that matter birth in any

city away from Allahabad-> > Varanasi region.> >> > With respect,> >> > KP Miglani> >> > <%40>,> > "varun_trvd"> > <varun_trvd@> wrote:> > >> > > Respected Yograj ji,> > >> > > The discussion on the Sarini is in no way related to or associated> > > with any individual. No names have been mentioned. Therefore your> > > contention that it is " Bhatia ji bashing" is not correct.> > >> > > All we want to know is how the lagna of some one born at 85W0> > > longitude and 52N0 latitude can be worked out from the Sarini.> > There> > > has been no answer to that.> >

>> > > As for our repspect for Pt. Rupchand ji is concerned, all of us> > have> > > great regards for him as an astrologer, a thinker and a saintly> > > human being> > >> > > But having regards and respect is one thing, and analysing or> > > discussing what he has said, or reported to have said, is another.> > > An academic discusion should not be taken as a mark of disrespect.> > >> > > With regards and respect,> > >> > > Varun Trivedi> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > <%40>,> > "Yograj Prabhakar"> > > <yr_prabhakar@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Respected forum members> > > >> > > > I would have expressed my views much earlier on this topic but I> > > > purposely prefer to stay away. Some of my friends constantly> > > > questioned my silence on this issue, some of them even wrote to> > me> > > and> > > > asked me to clarify my stand. So my answer/explaination is> > > especially> > > > for them.> > > >> > > > (1). The motive of a new pseudo intelligencia behind this ongoing> > > > dispute is obviously malefied; even a fool can sense the

stinking> > > > smell of personal vendetta in it. I always treated Shri Rajinder> > > > Bhatia ji as a friend, philosopher and guide as far as Lal Kitab> > is> > > > concerned, so I refuse to be a part of the one point agenda> > > of "Bhatia> > > > bashing".> > > > .> > > > (2). For me, whatever is said/written by Pundit ji was/is/ and> > > will> > > > always remain as "the final edict" and no individual or condition> > > can> > > > force me to alter my stance.> > > >> > > > (3). For me, Lal Kitab is not just another book of astrology, it> > > is a> > > > Zinda Granth, therefore I refuse to become a part of any so-called> > > > academic postmortem destined for proving this document (Lagan>

> > Sarnee)> > > > and Pt. Rup Chand Joshi incorrect.> > > >> > > > (4). The same lobby that unsuccesfully tried in the past to prove> > > that> > > > the revered Lal Kitab syatem is not Pt. Rup Chand joshi ji's> > > creation> > > > has once again become active and is vigorously working to> > > accomplish> > > > their sinister desires, and Shri Rajinder Bhatia ji is figting> > this> > > > battle single handedly. If people know Pt. Rup Chand Joshi as> > > > originator of the Lal Kitab system today, it is only due to Shri> > > > Rajinder Bhatia, and the whole Lal Kitab community shall always> > > remain> > > > indebted to him. Under such circumstances, if I cannot stand> > behind> > > > such devotee, atleat I can

refuse to be a part of any futile> > debate> > > > meant for maligning his image.> > > >> > > > (5). As far as the importance and relevance of Lagan Sarnee is> > > > concerned, for those who have the better means are free to ignore> > > it,> > > > who is stopping them? No one can compel anyone to use a particular> > > > tool. If people think that Shri Rajinder Bhatia is adopting an> > > adamant> > > > attitude, what name should be given to their own "main na manoo"> > > > attitude? Dear friends, standing firm on his/her stand cannot be> > > > treated as a crime and I congratulate Shri Rajinder Bhatia ji for> > > his> > > > solid standpoint.> > > >> > > > I can only request to those who claimed to be the Bhagats

of> > > revered> > > > Lal Kitab not to forget the primary dictum "ilm aur aalim ki> > > > badkhoyee se parhez chahiye."> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Respectfully> > > > Yograj Prabhakar> > > >> > >> >> > > >>Kulbir Bains

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