Lagan Sarni discussion / shri Shivdev Kalsi ji

[Guest guest]

Very dear Kalsi ji,

 

 

You seem to have misuderstood what I had said. I said that the Lagna

sarinis published in the Panchangs and the Jantris before 1973 were

calculated at 23 ayanansh. Each sarini mentioned this fact as a

header along with the place it was calculated for.

 

Once the astrologer knew that the sarini was calculated at this

particular ayanansh he then carried out the necessary

modification/corrections based on the ayanansh of the year he was

working out the lagna for. Lagna sarini provides tha base, the Lagna

with its ansha has to be worked out by incorporating the actual

ayanansh of the date of birth.

 

To give you an example:

 

Suppose some one was finding out the lagnansh for a date and time in

1960. He knew that the current ayanansh for 1960 is 23d19. Therefore

he would incorporate the change for 0d19'[ 23d19 - 23d0 ] into the

finding to get the value for that date and time in 1960.

 

Most of us who were using either the sarinis or the NC Lahiri

ephemeris before the computers came to the scene had to do these

corrections. Do you know that the NC Lahiri ephemeris too were based

on the 23 degree ayanansh. We all had to do these corrections while

using them.

 

I think you blaming me for ignoring precision in astrology is

unfair. I would go for as much perfection and precision as possible.

I do not believe in approximations. That is why I believe that we

should not use this sarini specially when we have sophisticated

tools available. Why settle for approximation when you have access

to precise and accurate findings.

 

I welcome your participation. Yes in a discussion heated arguments

do take place but they should not get bitter. All discussions are a

part of a learning process. We learn from each other. No one is

perfect.

 

Sincerely,

 

Bhooshan Priya

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, " Shivdev Kalsi "

<shivdev.kalsi wrote:

>

> Dear Bhooshan Priya ji,

> Your opinion is challenging the entire astrological works like

tevas,

> kundlis,Mundane made before 1973. Your opinion that

> ayaansha used in the Lagan Sarnis and planet calculations was 23

degree

> prior to 1973 is not agreeable by me.On one hand it is called for

precsion

> of accuracy in ascendent upto seconds &

> talked about shashtyaansha, on the other hand it is accepteble that

> the error/difference of 30-50 minutes is accepted as accurate

prior to 1973.

>

> It is one's own priority how to judge and accept the data. You may

be

> agreeing on your opinion but my views are totaly opposite to your

views.

> Accuracy can be seen according to the system of astrology, one opt

to

> use.Lalkitab may not need

> much accuracy but for other systems much accuracy is required.

> As far as this sarni or any other lagan sarni is concerned 99% of

our

> netsavy members may not be

> using these tables. For remaining 1% users, let them decide

themselves

> about the accuracy.

> Bhooshan Ji, I have checked calculations personnaly for this

> sarni.There is no error in .I had not much time to go for detailed

> calculation for

> every year since 1952 but in my point of view, It is correct that

it is

> based upon Madras Time and most probably it is made in 1970+/- 3or

4 years.

> Mr.Bhardwaj have made an attempt to calculate it for 1952 and

asked me to

> check for another year he promised me to distibute it to members.

He might

> have done so.

> Difference of opinion in discussions are good for the cause.

Please don't

> Take it otherwise.

> Yours

> Shiv Dev Kalsi

>

>

> On 10/18/07, < wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> > Dear Kalsi ji,

> >

> > Since I was away I couldn't respond to your observations in

time. I

> > am sorry for my delayed response.

> >

> > I feel really happy to find that a few more Lal Kitab scholars

are

> > getting interested in the discussions. It is a good indication of

> > things to come.

> >

> > ( A ) You are right that in the last decade the Sun might not

have

> > been in the Capricorn at the time of Sun rise on January 14th .

But

> > we are not talking of the current decade, or of the decade

earlier

> > to that. We are talking about the years 1952 and the years before

> > that because it is widely believed that the Lagna Sarini under

> > discussion was already in vogue around 1952.

> >

> > Therefore the sankranti data that you have provided isn't

applicable

> > to the time frame under discussion.

> >

> > Just a bit of the background of Sarini preparation in general.

> >

> > Most of the Sarinis in use before 1973 were based at 23 degree

> > ayanansh with the cut-off date 1938 when the Ayanansh got to 23

> > degrees. Some reputed Panchangs and Jantris revised their Lagna

> > Sarini in 1973 when the Ayanansh got to 23 degrees 30 minutes.

The

> > next revision is due for 2010 when the ananash will get to 24

> > degrees.

> >

> > Therefore in the context of the Sarini under discussion, we are

> > talking about the Makar sankranti on January 14th on and before

> > 1952. Since the 23d30 ayanansh modification wasn't due till 1973

it

> > was assumed that the Sarinis available in the Panchangs and the

> > Jantris printed prior to 1952 were reflecting the calculations

at 23

> > degree ayanansh.

> >

> > Thus we selected the following non-variable parameters to

evaluate

> > the Sarini:

> >

> > Makar Sankranti on 14th January

> > Ayanansh 23 degrees

> > The time reference is 82E30 which is now known as IST and earlier

> > was known as Madras Time.

> > Sun rise at IST [ 82E30 ] of 6 :58 am on January 14th.

> >

> > Now let us cross check which Rashi [ zodiac sign ] the Sun was on

> > January 14th at sun rise 6:58 am IST or what was known as Madras

> > time earlier ;ref 82E30. We examined four years after 1952 and

four

> > years before 1952. Here are the results for you to verify:

> >

> > Year position of the Sun at sunrise

> > [14th Jan] At 6:58 am at 82E30

> > { IST or earlier Madras time }

> >

> > 1956 0cp34

> > 1955 0cp50

> > 1954 1cp05

> > 1953 1cp21

> > 1952 0cp35

> > 1951 0cp51

> > 1950 1cp07

> > 1949 1cp23

> > 1948 0cp37

> >

> > During all these years the Sun is already in the sign Capricorn [

> > makar ] at the time of the Sunrise. This means that the

Sankranti [

> > sun moving to the next sign] has already taken place much before

the

> > sun rise.

> >

> > ( B ) Yes, once again you are right that the next lagna starts 4

> > minutes early.

> > But the Lagna Sarini under discussion shows a difference of just

1

> > minute between January 13th and the 14th. Not only that, at

places

> > the difference is shown to be 5 minutes between the rising time

of

> > the Lagna the next day. You will find a difference of 3 minutes

also

> > at a few places. Would that be called consistency and uniformity?

> > You would agree that every mathematical table has to be

consistent

> > and conforming to the principles.

> >

> > Both the above statements can be verified from the January page

of

> > the Sarini I have uploaded in the file section.

> >

> > Dear Kalsi ji, I have no motive to prove this Sarini to be

> > inaccurate. I am a student of Lal Kitab system myself and I would

> > gain nothing by declaring the Sarini inaccurate if it isn't? At

the

> > same time would prefer any tool being used in astrology to be as

> > perfect as it can be. We cannot keep using tools that are not

> > precise.

> >

> > For me it is purely an academic discussion, our approach has been

> > dispassionate, objective and based on facts. The methodology we

have

> > used is scientific and uniformly applicable.

> >

> > I once again welcome your initiative to participate in the

> > discussion.

> >

> > Sincerely,

> >

> > Bhooshan Priya

> >

> > Dear Moderator and fellow members,

> > First of all I thank the unknown group member who sent me the

link

> > for copies of few pages of Lagan Sarni of Month March.

> > Though I am not well versed with LalKitab But as far as vedic

> > astrology is concerned, I am in the opinion that these members

are

> > just beating the wrong drum. I cite few messages below from few

of

> > the fellow members, I am giving my point of difference with the

> > following views of members:-

> > Pt. Bhooshan Priya & LalKitabee Ji

> > Point No.1 - Makar Sakranti

> > The concept of Priya Ji is wrong. No doubt Sun enters in makar

Rashi

> > on 14th of every year. But the time is not the sunrise of the

day.

> > here I cite few examples of previous years. You can verify from

the

> > panchangs:

> > Year 2005: Sun entered Makar on 14th January at (29.42) which is

> > 05.42 AM of 15th January and that too before the sunrise

> > Year 2006:Sun entered Makar on 14th January at 11.55 AM and that

is

> > at noon not at the sunrise

> > Year 2007:Sun entered Makar on 14th January at 18.36 PM and that

is

> > at evening not at the sunrise

> > Year 2008 : Sun will enter Makar on 14th January at (24.08)

which is

> > at 00.08 Hrs of 15th January and that is not at the sunrise

> > Friends Therefore the concepts of both these astrologers are

wrong

> > and misleading.

> > Point No. 2. : Sum of Lagan Timing will be 24 Hours.

> > . Friends Earth rotates arround sun and completes it the journey

in

> > one year. in other words if we treat the Earth as stationary and

by

> > the Law of relativity we can say that Sun moves and complete the

> > journey in One year which is approximately 1 degree per day. with

> > the result the rising time of lagan will change each day

> > approximately 4 minutes early. There fore when you calculate the

> > difference of time you will always encounter the difference of 4

> > minutes or you have to add 4minutes to this timing. For example

if

> > rising time of a Lagna is 12.14 minutes on first day then it will

> > will be 12.10 minutes on next day. This difference will always

be 23-

> > 56 Hrs. The contention of Bhoosahn Priya Ji is wrong that the

sarni

> > shows the difference of one minutes per day. It shows the

exactly 4

> > minutes difference perday

> > Regarding the place for which the Lagan Sarni is Based Priya Ji

may

> > be right/wrong. because I have not full sarni with me. Friends

Earth

> > revolves arround it poles and complete it revolutin in 24 hours.

If

> > you a point is fixed out side the earth then you will find it

> > accurately as 24 hours. If that fixed point is also moving then

you

> > will find difference wrt to that moving point every day. That is

> > what happens in Mother nature. Fixed Point Sun is moving by one

> > Degree per day. And Earth covers 1 degree in 4 minutes in

> > revoloution. That is why the Lagan changes by -4 minutes per day.

> > LalKitabee jee is right that earth takes 24 hours in rotation

but it

> > takes 23-56 hours to reach the point which is moving 1 degree per

> > day.

> >

> > Point of difference with Miglani Ji:

> > Point No: 1 House in Divisional Chakras:

> > First of all I Clarify that Houses are Fixed as per natal Charts.

> > My friend is wrong that these houses also move in Divisional

> > Charts. I dont Know why and when these chakras had been given the

> > name of Kundlis. Basically these are known as Nahansha, Hora etc

etc

> > Chakras, Those who read the KP will know how these chakras to be

> > used. Planet Position is fixed in natal Chart and it connot be

> > shifted. These planets will be sitting in the Navaansha, and

various

> > other anshas owned by other planets. In these anshas the concept

of

> > Natal Drishtis are not applicable.

> > Friends the contention of Miglani Ji is wrong and agaisnst the

rules

> > of vedic concepts.

> > Repected Bhooshan Priya Ji, LalKitabee Ji, and Miglani , I have

not

> > written this to have any malafide intentions. I have the

difference

> > of opinion That I gave. I request you to please dont take it

> > personally.

> > Yours

> > Shiv Dev Singh Kalsi

> >

> > <%

40>,

> > " Shivdev Kalsi "

> > <shivdev.kalsi@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Moderator and fellow members,

> > > First of all I thank the unknown group member who sent me the

link

> > for

> > > copies of few pages of Lagan Sarni of Month March.

> > > Though I am not well versed with LalKitab But as far as vedic

> > astrology is

> > > concerned, I am in the opinion that these members are just

beating

> > the

> > > wrong drum. I

> > > cite few messages below from few of the fellow

> > > members, I am giving my point of difference with the following

> > views

> > > of members:-

> > > *Pt. Bhooshan Priya & LalKitabee Ji

> > > Point No.1 - Makar Sakranti

> > > *The concept of Priya Ji is wrong. No doubt Sun enters in makar

> > Rashi on

> > > 14th of every year. But the time is not the sunrise of the day.

> > here I cite

> > > few examples of previous years. You can verify from the

panchangs:

> > > *Year 2005: Sun entered Makar on 14th January at (29.42) which

is

> > 05.42 AM

> > > of 15th January and that too before the sunrise

> > > **Year 2006:**Sun entered Makar on 14th January at 11.55 AM and

> > that

> > > is at noon not at the sunrise

> > > ** **Year 2007:**Sun entered Makar on 14th January at 18.36 PM

and

> > that

> > > is at evening not at the sunrise*

> > > *Year 2008 : **Sun will enter Makar on 14th January at (24.08)

> > which is at

> > > 00.08 Hrs of 15th January and that is not at the sunrise

> > > *Friends Therefore the concepts of both these astrologers are

> > wrong and

> > > misleading.

> > > *Point No. 2. : Sum of Lagan Timing will be 24 Hours.

> > > ** *. Friends Earth rotates arround sun and completes it the

> > journey

> > > in one year. in other words if

> > > we treat the Earth as stationary and by the Law of relativity

we

> > can say

> > > that

> > > Sun moves and complete the journey in One year which is

> > approximately

> > > 1 degree per day.

> > > with the result the rising time of lagan will change each day

> > approximately

> > > 4

> > > minutes early. There fore when you calculate the difference of

time

> > > you will always encounter the difference of 4 minutes

> > > or you have to add 4minutes to this timing. For example if

rising

> > time of a

> > > Lagna is 12.14 minutes on first day then it will will be 12.10

> > minutes on

> > > next day. This difference will always be 23-56

> > > Hrs. The contention of Bhoosahn Priya Ji is wrong that the

sarni

> > shows

> > > the difference of one minutes per day. It shows the exactly

> > > 4 minutes difference perday

> > > Regarding the place for which the Lagan Sarni is Based Priya Ji

> > may be

> > > right/wrong. because I have not full sarni with me. Friends

> > > Earth revolves arround it poles and complete it revolutin in 24

> > hours.

> > > If you a point is fixed out side the earth then you will find

it

> > > accurately as 24 hours. If that fixed point is also moving

then you

> > > will find difference wrt to that moving point every day. That

is

> > what

> > > happens in Mother nature. Fixed Point Sun is moving by one

Degree

> > per

> > > day. And Earth covers 1 degree in 4 minutes in revoloution.

That is

> > > why the Lagan changes by -4 minutes per day.

> > > LalKitabee jee is right that earth takes 24 hours in rotation

but

> > it takes

> > > 23-56 hours to reach the point which is moving 1 degree per

day.

> > >

> > > *Point of difference with Miglani Ji:

> > > Point No: 1 House in Divisional Chakras:

> > > * First of all I Clarify that Houses are Fixed as per natal

> > Charts. My

> > > friend is wrong that these houses also move in Divisional

Charts.

> > > I dont Know why and when these chakras had been given the name

of

> > > Kundlis. Basically these are known as Nahansha, Hora etc etc

> > Chakras,

> > > Those who read the KP will know how these chakras to be used.

> > Planet

> > > Position is fixed in natal Chart and it connot be shifted.

These

> > > planets will be sitting in the Navaansha, and various

> > > other anshas owned by other planets. In these anshas the

concept

> > of

> > > Natal Drishtis are

> > > not applicable.

> > > *Friends the contention of Miglani

> > > Ji is wrong and agaisnst the rules of vedic concepts.

> > > *Repected Bhooshan Priya Ji, LalKitabee Ji, and Miglani , I

have

> > not written

> > > this to

> > > have any malafide intentions. I have the difference of opinion

> > That I

> > > gave. I request you to please dont take it personally.

> > > Yours

> > > Shiv Dev Singh Kalsi

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > *

> > > **

> > > *

> > >

> > >

> > > *LalKitab Discussion Group

> > > msg:942

> > >

> > > Re: Lagn sarani : an inaccurate document

> > >

> > > Dear Kulbir ji,

> > >

> > > The Lagna Sarini document that you have mentioned is not only

> > > inaccurate it is useless also. When I say `inaccurate' and

> > `useless'

> > > I say with full responsibility.

> > >

> > > Lal Kitab might claim to have done away with Rasi and

Nakshatra,

> > but

> > > it cannot do away with Lagna. Ascendant is the keystone for all

> > > systems of astrology, including the Lal Kitab. The Lagna or

> > > ascendant has to be very accurate and precise for all

arithmetical

> > > calculations needed in astrology. If the ascendant is not

accurate

> > > the subsequent divisions [ varga ] like hora, dreshkran ,

> > > dwadashansh etc up to shashthiansh [ 1/60th of a sign ] will be

> > > inaccurate. Therefore the Lagna has to be sookshm [ precise ]

and

> > > not sthool [ approximation]. I know that the Lal Kitab doesn't

need

> > > the accuracy of the order I am talking about, nevertheless it

can

> > > not be ignored if we are evaluating an astrology tool. A

Sarini is

> > a

> > > tool used in astrology and therefore has to be evaluated on the

> > > standards set for it.

> > >

> > > A few years ago in Delhi an associate of Pt. Rupchand ji

showed me

> > > the Lagna sarini used by Lal Kitab practitioners. I took that

> > > opportunity to study and evaluate it. It is a very tedious task

> > > because it involves reverse engineering.

> > >

> > > I found the following drawbacks in that Lagna Sarini :

> > >

> > > [ 1 ] The Lagna sarini is drawn at Ayanansh 23degrees. The

current

> > [

> > > 2007 ] Lahiri ayanansha is at 23deg 58min 2sec. Therefore any

Lagna

> > > worked out through this Sarini will be off by 58 min and 2sec [

> > here

> > > the word min and sec mean the minute and seconds of a degree

and

> > not

> > > time]

> > >

> > > [ 2 ] The Sarini is drawn for the Longitude 82E0 and Latitude

26N0.

> > > This place will be near Allahabad Therefore the Ascendant

degrees

> > > shown by this Sarini will be for a birth near Allahabad. Using

this

> > > Sarini for any birth in Punjab, or for that matter any where

else

> > in

> > > India, will be criminal in astrological terms.

> > >

> > > Before I move on to point out other mistakes in the Sarini I

would

> > > request any one to find out for himself as to what I have said

is

> > > true or not.

> > >

> > > Whenever we have to find out the co-ordinates of any Lagna

Sarini,

> > > the most appropriate parameter to start from is a Surya

sankranti

> > > day. There are 12 sankrantis in a year. A sankranti is a day

when

> > > the Sun moves to the next Rasi [ zodiac sign] . These

sankrantis of

> > > the Sun fall on the same date every year.

> > >

> > > As an example let's take up the Makar Sankranti day. It falls

on

> > > January 14th every year. The astrology dictum is `the sun will

rise

> > > in the first degree of the sign on that day'. Therefore the

> > > Ascendant at the time of the sunrise on the 14th January will

be

> > > within the first degree of Makar [ Capricorn]

> > >

> > > The time of Capricorn rising on the 14th of January shown in

the

> > > Lagna sarini under discussion is 6:55am and lasts till 8:37am

> > >

> > > Now take up any kundali software, change the ayanansh to 23deg

[ ie

> > > 58'-2 " less than current Lahiri ayanansh ] feed the data :

birth at

> > > 6:55am at 82E0 ; 26N0 and see for your self that the ascendant

will

> > > be 0cap31 ; this value is within the first degree of Capricorn.

> > >

> > > This will prove my contentions that the Sarini is drawn:

> > > ( i )at 23deg ayanansha which is 58':2 " less than what is today

> > > ( ii ) for longitude 82E0 and Latitude 26N0 [hence not

applicable

> > > for the rest of the country]

> > >

> > > Now coming to other misprints amounting to mistakes in the

lagna

> > > sarini under discussion:

> > >

> > > [ 1 ] Add up the duration of all the 12 Lagna for any day. The

> > total

> > > doesn't come to 24 hours. Now who will believe that the earth

> > > revolved one complete circle on its axis in less than 24

hours. The

> > > total of all the 12 Lagna duration has to be 24 hours, no less

no

> > > more.

> > >

> > > [ 2 ] From January till the end of December the time of rising

of

> > > every lagna keeps reducing by 4 minutes every day i.e. every

lagna

> > > rises 4 minutes before its previous day rising time.

> > > In the sarini have a look at the rising time of lagna on the

> > January

> > > 13th and January 14th. The difference printed is just one

minute.

> > > This mistake is carried on all along. No body will believe

that the

> > > Lagna which rises 4 minutes early every next day, will rise

only

> > one

> > > minute early on that day.

> > >

> > > These movements are astronomically controlled; they are not

> > > subjective. These are universal truths.

> > >

> > > Summarizing, I find the Sarini of no use whatsoever. Yes for

some

> > > people it might have a sentimental value but it has no

astrological

> > > value. In an academic scrutiny sentiments do not count, the

> > findings

> > > are based on objective parameters.

> > >

> > > If some one turns up and says that the Lal Kitab doesn't need

the

> > > kind of precision I have talked about, in that case they need

not

> > > depend on the Sarini under discussion. Every Panchang published

> > > carries a sarini based on the place it is published from. They

can

> > > use that sarini for sthool [ approximate ] Lagna , because the

> > Lagna

> > > is going to be the same for almost two hours for the major

part of

> > > India.

> > >

> > > Sincerely,

> > >

> > > Bhooshan Priya

> > > msg:957

> > > Re: Lagn sarani : an inaccurate document

> > >

> > > Respected Bhooshan JI

> > >

> > >

> > > I also tried to solve this puzzle of sarani a couple of months

> > > before.But I found that the latitude & longitude were near

about

> > > Varanasi = 82E30 25N20. at 23 ayananshas.

> > >

> > >

> > > I think this Saarani blongs to the area of Varanasi (U.P.).In

my

> > > opinion also, this sarani cant be logical for the abroad

borned in

> > > these days. I think all other experts can through some light,

> > having

> > > some authentic & historical key-pages about it.Otherwise its

no use

> > > in my opinion.I have a clear concept that--- Chahey chandar ko

> > khada

> > > ghodaa banaa diyaa jaaye, nakshattar bhi bhoola diye jaayain

raashi

> > > ko bhi chhod diyaa jaaye.Fir bhi lagan sarani kee baat chalney

par

> > > Dharatee(EARTH) ka ghoomnaa kabhi bhi nazar andaaz nahi kiyaa

ja

> > > saktaa.Kyonki lagan saarni seedhey seedhey isse sambandh

rakhtee

> > hai.

> > > U try these latitude & longitudes also plz for more

confirmation.I

> > > will also be satisfied that one is here who can understand this

> > logic.

> > >

> > > With Regards

> > >

> > > Pt. Lalkitabee

> > > www.lalkitabee.com

> > > Mb. 9812020001

> > > *

> > > *Lalkitab Group msg:10478

> > > Re: Lagn sarani IS AN INACCURATE DOCUMENT!!!

> > >

> > > Dear Bhatia ji,

> > >

> > > You seem to be misinformed about the Vedic astrology.

> > >

> > > Rahu and Ketu being together in the same house or Mercury and

Venus

> > > being 7 houses away from the Sun is a Vedic astrology concept.

> > There

> > > is nothing illogical or un-vedic about it. The Vedic astrology

had

> > > long back propounded this concept. The Lal Kitab has just

followed

> > > it.

> > >

> > > Rahu and Ketu not only can be but compulsorily have to be in

the

> > > same house in the following TEN divisional charts:

> > >

> > > D-2

> > > D-5

> > > D-6

> > > D-8

> > > D-16

> > > D-20

> > > D-24

> > > D-30

> > > D-40

> > > D-45

> > >

> > > In divisional charts Venus can be 180 degrees away from the

Sun and

> > > so can be Mercury. Astronomically Venus cannot be more than 49

> > > degrees away from the Sun.

> > >

> > > But the things are different with the Janma Kundali. Since the

> > Janma

> > > Kundali is a map of the sky at the time of birth, the planets,

> > > including the nodes, have to be shown or plotted as they

appear in

> > > the sky under the astronomical rules. Similarly the Ascendant

has

> > to

> > > be the sign, which is rising at the horizon at the time of

birth.

> > > The accuracy of the Ascendant cannot be compromised.

> > >

> > > Even the Lal Kitab follows the Vedic rules for the Janma

Kundali.

> > It

> > > is only in the Varsh Phal chart that the Rahu and Ketu can be

in

> > the

> > > adjacent houses and Venus and mercury 7 houses away. In a

kundali

> > > prepared through Palmistry both the Rahu and the Ketu can be

in the

> > > same house. None of the above is against the principles of

vedic

> > > astrology.

> > >

> > > Therefore the argument that if we accept Rahu and ketu

together in

> > > the same house or in adjacent houses, might as well accept an

> > > incorrect ascendant calculated through an inaccurate Sarini,

> > doesn't

> > > hold good.

> > >

> > > I agree with you when you say that those who do not have faith

on

> > > the Sarini because it is inaccurate are free to keep away from

it,

> > > or reject it as an obsolete tool.

> > >

> > > You have said in no uncertain terms that you would continue to

use

> > > the same Sarini. I appreciate your stand.

> > >

> > > *

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

> Dr. Shiv Dev Kalsi,

> Jyotish Rishi (AIFAS)

> Consultant (Vedic Astrology)

>