Lal Kitab Discussion Group Conrtoversy over Lagan Sarnee

October 14, 2007

Respected Nirmal Ji

Im surprised that the person who was saying lalkitab as a quiada of

primary class,now saying " Let us work on to the other issues related

to the LalKitab which are still to unsolved. "

(Shukar hai aapko is primary ke quaidey main unsolved to dikhaayee

diyaa ,these words r clear in ur massage & that massage can be seen

after scroll)

U have 10 pages & still u r looking forward.Arre nirmal ji ,u r

making controversy now , even a basic astrologer cant say like

this,after having 10 pages of sarani . U can understand the modus

operandi of that sarani as a Quaida of primary class.If u have 10

pages, upload those pages & we will work out in subsequent manner.

Bcoz U may say about the sarani povided by us as " DALDA SARANI " . So

plz upload ur 10 pages without any restricted download.What will u

add more & special in that sarani with ur experience? Im unable to

understand this bcoz:-

Mr. Bhatia has wrote a word document in file section

already bfor years & after having time defference ,according to that

document ,the only work remains to confirm the lagna by this

sarani.Im unable to understand what u want to say .Y u r making this

as a puzzle. Come forward with universal acadamics.It is not a

question of likes & dislikes, it is a question of uniformity of a

rule or a tool.

As for ur information, i havent any interest to

transliterate it in hindi, .This document has no use in my opinion &

I cleared my views already.This type of work of transliteration has

been left for others,who r really experts of transliteration work.

Im not hurting imotions of anybody & i have not this type of

intentions also,Im always respectful to all but i believe that

discussion means discussion with a healthy manner & at per healthy

grounds of academics for the normal people like us.

U always leave the main topic.Again im reminding u that We

are awaiting ur views only, not any questionare from ur side.Dont

make puzzle by using the word WHETHER plz.

Plz elaborate , " wat is ur conclusion & at which grounds

only? with the help of uploaded pages of sarani by u. KAYEE

MARTABAA AISAA LAGTAA HAI KI AAP VISHAY KO GUMRAAH KAR RAHEY HAIN.If

my feelings r right then u shud cure urself from this desease, if im

wrong ,i feel sorry in advance.

With Regards

Pt.Lalkitabee

NKB <nirbhar wrote:

>

> Dear Miglani Ji,

> I have heard too much of about this lagan Sarni and but able to

> get 10 pages only. These pages does not speak much of this lagan

Sarni. Even

> the page which gives the year of publication is not available in

these

> pages. I shall be obliged if anyone send the complete sarni to me.

In fact *I

> could not find the word*s " *LalKitab Lagan Sarn*i " in these

> pages. I feel this name is given to this sarni just now.

> Secondly Lot of lagan Sarnis always are calculated and printed

with a

> particular

> place. There is no uniform code of conduct for printing these

Sarnis.

> Therefore it is left only to publisher/printer. It is not mandatory

> for any publisher to give whole lot of data mere for a lagan sarni.

> Even

> in very famous panchangs which publish Lagan sarni for different

Cities

> today sometime left these minutes details assuming that astrologer

might be

> knowing these small factors.

> it is the first most lesson taught to an astrologer - how to

calculate an

> ascendant with different locations all over

> the world. I don't know why the experienced astrologers making hue

and cry mere

> that method is not given in the sarni

> . If an astrologer cannot workout the ascendant of a foriegn birth

> from a given lagan sarni then it is not the fault of lagan Sarni.

> it is shows the Nalayqi of that very astrologer who forgot the

first

> lesson of his profession.

> * It might be graceful for him to explain

> " Look I have added my experience in this Lagan Sarni. I am giving

> method of calculate ascendent of foriegn birth with this lagan

sarni "

> *

> Further more there are many other lagan sarni are available use

them. Nobody

> asked any astrologer that why he is using 'Table of Ascendant',

> 'Software' or any other mean. It is only upto the astrologer

convenience to

> use whatsoever he likes. .

> You are right to the extent that one cannot find a Lagna for 50

> north latitude from the not only with 'your called Lal Kitab Lagna

sarini'

> *b**ut also from any other lagan sarnis published in India*. He

has to

> use some other

> tables either be given in that lagan sarni or from 'Table of

ascendant' or a

> software or his own intelligence to find a Lagna for any

> other place. Regarding the place for which the Lal Kitab lagna

> sarini is drawn I cannot comment as i have not full sarni but

comment to the

> extent that words are written in that sarni Lagan Sarni (Madras

Time.) and

> conflicting view are received from fellow members regarding the

year and

> place for which the sarni is based.

> Miglani ji, we know that in LalKitab system of astrology,

correction is

> required to be applied even if one calculate the ascendant with

the most

> accurate means. Therefore these minor topics does not require much

> attention, rather the basic goals of the LalKitab Groups is being

set aside

> due to these altercations.

> Let us work on to the other issues related to the LalKitab which

are still

> to unsolved.

> Regards

> Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj

, NKB <nirbhar wrote:

>

> Dear Miglani Ji,

> Controversy is not over yet till full Sarni is made available to

all the

> members. I feel that full sarni is also not available with either

of the

> four who started this controversy, otherwise this wrong ,

incorrect ,

> misleading facts, as unearthed by Mr Kalsi in his mails, as

presented to the

> members by few astrologers on the basis of few pages only. I thank

Mr Kalsi

> to bring facts about few myths of these persons. People must know

truth

> behind this controversy. I have uploaded the pages available with

me and

> will provide these links tomorrow.

>

> Regarding 'accepting that the Lagna for some one born abroad can

not be

> found out through this Sarini under discussion, I have given my

view for all

> general sarnis, not with this particular sarni because full sarni

is not

> availbale with me till now and may be available with me in day or

two.

>

> We still have to clear the following doubts in the minds of

members created

> by this controversy :

> 1. Whether the Lagan Sarni is correct - (Stated to be wrong by few

members)

> 2. Whether the sarni is based upon Madras Time or Allahabad Time

> 3. Whether Ayaansha factor is deducted or not

> 4. This sarni is made for which year

> 5. Finally How this sarni be used for foriegn birth.

> From Mails, it is understood that LalKitabee Ji is translating

this sarni in

> Hindi also. This will help other members to know the contents and

decipher

> it.

> Persons are working on the urdu sarni also and will bring truth

within week.

> Regards

> Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj

>

> On 10/13/07, kpmiglani <kpmiglani wrote:

> >

> > Respected Varun ji,

> >

> > The controversy seems to be over now. Respected Nirmal Kumar

Bhardwaj

> > ji in a message in another group has accepted that the Lagna for

some

> > one born abroad can not be found out through the Sarini under

> > discussion. One will have to use either the NC Lahiri's Table of

> > Ascendants or one of the available softwares to find the Lagna.

> >

> > It might be true that Pt. Rupchand ji used this Sarini to find

out

> > the Lagna for those born abroad, but there is no comparision

between

> > us and Pt. Rupchand ji. He was a siddha purush. He probably

didn't

> > need a Sarini or a software to know the Lagna of a native.Pt.

> > Rupchand ji could draw the entire kundali by just looking at a

> > photograph of a person; can any one of us do that?

> >

> > The relevance of the Sarini was being discussed in the context

of us

> > mortals and not in relation to a visionary siddha like Pt.

Rupchand

> > ji.

> >

> > For ordinary men like us this Sarini will be of no use for any

birth

> > abroad or for that matter birth in any city away from Allahabad-

> > Varanasi region.

> >

> > With respect,

> >

> > KP Miglani

> >

> > <%

40>,

> > " varun_trvd "

> > <varun_trvd@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Respected Yograj ji,

> > >

> > > The discussion on the Sarini is in no way related to or

associated

> > > with any individual. No names have been mentioned. Therefore

your

> > > contention that it is " Bhatia ji bashing " is not correct.

> > >

> > > All we want to know is how the lagna of some one born at 85W0

> > > longitude and 52N0 latitude can be worked out from the Sarini.

> > There

> > > has been no answer to that.

> > >

> > > As for our repspect for Pt. Rupchand ji is concerned, all of us

> > have

> > > great regards for him as an astrologer, a thinker and a saintly

> > > human being

> > >

> > > But having regards and respect is one thing, and analysing or

> > > discussing what he has said, or reported to have said, is

another.

> > > An academic discusion should not be taken as a mark of

disrespect.

> > >

> > > With regards and respect,

> > >

> > > Varun Trivedi

> > >

> > > <%

40>,

> > " Yograj Prabhakar "

> > > <yr_prabhakar@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Respected forum members

> > > >

> > > > I would have expressed my views much earlier on this topic

but I

> > > > purposely prefer to stay away. Some of my friends constantly

> > > > questioned my silence on this issue, some of them even wrote

to

> > me

> > > and

> > > > asked me to clarify my stand. So my answer/explaination is

> > > especially

> > > > for them.

> > > >

> > > > (1). The motive of a new pseudo intelligencia behind this

ongoing

> > > > dispute is obviously malefied; even a fool can sense the

stinking

> > > > smell of personal vendetta in it. I always treated Shri

Rajinder

> > > > Bhatia ji as a friend, philosopher and guide as far as Lal

Kitab

> > is

> > > > concerned, so I refuse to be a part of the one point agenda

> > > of " Bhatia

> > > > bashing " .

> > > > .

> > > > (2). For me, whatever is said/written by Pundit ji was/is/

and

> > > will

> > > > always remain as " the final edict " and no individual or

condition

> > > can

> > > > force me to alter my stance.

> > > >

> > > > (3). For me, Lal Kitab is not just another book of

astrology, it

> > > is a

> > > > Zinda Granth, therefore I refuse to become a part of any so-

called

> > > > academic postmortem destined for proving this document (Lagan

> > > Sarnee)

> > > > and Pt. Rup Chand Joshi incorrect.

> > > >

> > > > (4). The same lobby that unsuccesfully tried in the past to

prove

> > > that

> > > > the revered Lal Kitab syatem is not Pt. Rup Chand joshi ji's

> > > creation

> > > > has once again become active and is vigorously working to

> > > accomplish

> > > > their sinister desires, and Shri Rajinder Bhatia ji is

figting

> > this

> > > > battle single handedly. If people know Pt. Rup Chand Joshi as

> > > > originator of the Lal Kitab system today, it is only due to

Shri

> > > > Rajinder Bhatia, and the whole Lal Kitab community shall

always

> > > remain

> > > > indebted to him. Under such circumstances, if I cannot stand

> > behind

> > > > such devotee, atleat I can refuse to be a part of any futile

> > debate

> > > > meant for maligning his image.

> > > >

> > > > (5). As far as the importance and relevance of Lagan Sarnee

is

> > > > concerned, for those who have the better means are free to

ignore

> > > it,

> > > > who is stopping them? No one can compel anyone to use a

particular

> > > > tool. If people think that Shri Rajinder Bhatia is adopting

an

> > > adamant

> > > > attitude, what name should be given to their own " main na

manoo "

> > > > attitude? Dear friends, standing firm on his/her stand

cannot be

> > > > treated as a crime and I congratulate Shri Rajinder Bhatia

ji for

> > > his

> > > > solid standpoint.

> > > >

> > > > I can only request to those who claimed to be the Bhagats of

> > > revered

> > > > Lal Kitab not to forget the primary dictum " ilm aur aalim ki

> > > > badkhoyee se parhez chahiye. "

> > > >

> > > > Respectfully

> > > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

October 14, 2007

Respected miglani ji, i firmly endorse your views. pt. could have used this sarani as a basic tool to save his time and then correcting it with the concept of TEWE KI DARUSTI which is written in lalkitab to be the first step before nalysing any tewa. further he didn't printed in any of the 5 editions of lalkitab on the contrary he must have distributed it someupon whom he had the confidence that they know how tyo use TEWE KI DARUSTI. don't know how many of them are alive and practising but some who procurred it further have unsuccessfully tried to convert it into a tool to have an exclusive monopoly by making it a HAUA. nirmal ji has accepted that he has 10 pages, if he uploads these 10 pages the formula can be worked out and msiing pages can be created. on the cover it is written LAGN SARNI MADRAS TIME lets hope nirmal jim uploads these pages soon. one thing i can't understand is that the group that deidacted itself to

provide original LK books to masses why is it shying to share this document especially when it is available to them. aare bhai jitna hai utna to de do. kulbir bainskpmiglani <kpmiglani wrote: Respected Varun ji,The controversy seems to be over now. Respected Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj ji in a message in another group has accepted that the Lagna for some one born abroad can not be found out through the Sarini under discussion. One will have to use either the NC Lahiri's Table of

Ascendants or one of the available softwares to find the Lagna.It might be true that Pt. Rupchand ji used this Sarini to find out the Lagna for those born abroad, but there is no comparision between us and Pt. Rupchand ji. He was a siddha purush. He probably didn't need a Sarini or a software to know the Lagna of a native.Pt. Rupchand ji could draw the entire kundali by just looking at a photograph of a person; can any one of us do that?The relevance of the Sarini was being discussed in the context of us mortals and not in relation to a visionary siddha like Pt. Rupchand ji.For ordinary men like us this Sarini will be of no use for any birth abroad or for that matter birth in any city away from Allahabad-Varanasi region.With respect,KP Miglani , "varun_trvd"

<varun_trvd wrote:>> Respected Yograj ji,> > The discussion on the Sarini is in no way related to or associated > with any individual. No names have been mentioned. Therefore your > contention that it is " Bhatia ji bashing" is not correct.> > All we want to know is how the lagna of some one born at 85W0 > longitude and 52N0 latitude can be worked out from the Sarini. There > has been no answer to that.> > As for our repspect for Pt. Rupchand ji is concerned, all of us have > great regards for him as an astrologer, a thinker and a saintly > human being> > But having regards and respect is one thing, and analysing or > discussing what he has said, or reported to have said, is another. > An academic discusion should not be taken as a mark of disrespect.> > With regards and respect,> > Varun

Trivedi> > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Yograj Prabhakar" > <yr_prabhakar@> wrote:> >> > Respected forum members> > > > I would have expressed my views much earlier on this topic but I> > purposely prefer to stay away. Some of my friends constantly> > questioned my silence on this issue, some of them even wrote to me > and> > asked me to clarify my stand. So my answer/explaination is > especially> > for them. > > > > (1). The motive of a new pseudo intelligencia behind this ongoing> > dispute is obviously malefied; even a fool can sense the stinking> > smell of personal vendetta in it. I always treated Shri Rajinder>

> Bhatia ji as a friend, philosopher and guide as far as Lal Kitab is> > concerned, so I refuse to be a part of the one point agenda > of "Bhatia> > bashing". > > .> > (2). For me, whatever is said/written by Pundit ji was/is/ and > will> > always remain as "the final edict" and no individual or condition > can> > force me to alter my stance. > > > > (3). For me, Lal Kitab is not just another book of astrology, it > is a> > Zinda Granth, therefore I refuse to become a part of any so-called> > academic postmortem destined for proving this document (Lagan > Sarnee)> > and Pt. Rup Chand Joshi incorrect. > > > > (4). The same lobby that unsuccesfully tried in the past to prove > that> > the revered Lal Kitab syatem is not Pt. Rup Chand joshi ji's > creation> > has once again

become active and is vigorously working to > accomplish> > their sinister desires, and Shri Rajinder Bhatia ji is figting this> > battle single handedly. If people know Pt. Rup Chand Joshi as> > originator of the Lal Kitab system today, it is only due to Shri> > Rajinder Bhatia, and the whole Lal Kitab community shall always > remain> > indebted to him. Under such circumstances, if I cannot stand behind> > such devotee, atleat I can refuse to be a part of any futile debate> > meant for maligning his image. > > > > (5). As far as the importance and relevance of Lagan Sarnee is> > concerned, for those who have the better means are free to ignore > it,> > who is stopping them? No one can compel anyone to use a particular> > tool. If people think that Shri Rajinder Bhatia is adopting an > adamant> > attitude,

what name should be given to their own "main na manoo"> > attitude? Dear friends, standing firm on his/her stand cannot be> > treated as a crime and I congratulate Shri Rajinder Bhatia ji for > his> > solid standpoint.> > > > I can only request to those who claimed to be the Bhagats of > revered> > Lal Kitab not to forget the primary dictum "ilm aur aalim ki> > badkhoyee se parhez chahiye." > > > > > > > > Respectfully> > Yograj Prabhakar> >>Kulbir Bains

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