Guest guest Posted October 3, 2007 Report Share Posted October 3, 2007 Dear Kulbir ji, The Lagna Sarini document that you have mentioned is not only inaccurate it is useless also. When I say `inaccurate' and `useless' I say with full responsibility. Lal Kitab might claim to have done away with Rasi and Nakshatra, but it cannot do away with Lagna. Ascendant is the keystone for all systems of astrology, including the Lal Kitab. The Lagna or ascendant has to be very accurate and precise for all arithmetical calculations needed in astrology. If the ascendant is not accurate the subsequent divisions [ varga ] like hora, dreshkran , dwadashansh etc up to shashthiansh [ 1/60th of a sign ] will be inaccurate. Therefore the Lagna has to be sookshm [ precise ] and not sthool [ approximation]. I know that the Lal Kitab doesn't need the accuracy of the order I am talking about, nevertheless it can not be ignored if we are evaluating an astrology tool. A Sarini is a tool used in astrology and therefore has to be evaluated on the standards set for it. A few years ago in Delhi an associate of Pt. Rupchand ji showed me the Lagna sarini used by Lal Kitab practitioners. I took that opportunity to study and evaluate it. It is a very tedious task because it involves reverse engineering. I found the following drawbacks in that Lagna Sarini : [ 1 ] The Lagna sarini is drawn at Ayanansh 23degrees. The current [ 2007 ] Lahiri ayanansha is at 23deg 58min 2sec. Therefore any Lagna worked out through this Sarini will be off by 58 min and 2sec [ here the word min and sec mean the minute and seconds of a degree and not time] [ 2 ] The Sarini is drawn for the Longitude 82E0 and Latitude 26N0. This place will be near Allahabad Therefore the Ascendant degrees shown by this Sarini will be for a birth near Allahabad. Using this Sarini for any birth in Punjab, or for that matter any where else in India, will be criminal in astrological terms. Before I move on to point out other mistakes in the Sarini I would request any one to find out for himself as to what I have said is true or not. Whenever we have to find out the co-ordinates of any Lagna Sarini, the most appropriate parameter to start from is a Surya sankranti day. There are 12 sankrantis in a year. A sankranti is a day when the Sun moves to the next Rasi [ zodiac sign] . These sankrantis of the Sun fall on the same date every year. As an example let's take up the Makar Sankranti day. It falls on January 14th every year. The astrology dictum is `the sun will rise in the first degree of the sign on that day'. Therefore the Ascendant at the time of the sunrise on the 14th January will be within the first degree of Makar [ Capricorn] The time of Capricorn rising on the 14th of January shown in the Lagna sarini under discussion is 6:55am and lasts till 8:37am Now take up any kundali software, change the ayanansh to 23deg [ ie 58'-2 " less than current Lahiri ayanansh ] feed the data : birth at 6:55am at 82E0 ; 26N0 and see for your self that the ascendant will be 0cap31 ; this value is within the first degree of Capricorn. This will prove my contentions that the Sarini is drawn: ( i )at 23deg ayanansha which is 58':2 " less than what is today ( ii ) for longitude 82E0 and Latitude 26N0 [hence not applicable for the rest of the country] Now coming to other misprints amounting to mistakes in the lagna sarini under discussion: [ 1 ] Add up the duration of all the 12 Lagna for any day. The total doesn't come to 24 hours. Now who will believe that the earth revolved one complete circle on its axis in less than 24 hours. The total of all the 12 Lagna duration has to be 24 hours, no less no more. [ 2 ] From January till the end of December the time of rising of every lagna keeps reducing by 4 minutes every day i.e. every lagna rises 4 minutes before its previous day rising time. In the sarini have a look at the rising time of lagna on the January 13th and January 14th. The difference printed is just one minute. This mistake is carried on all along. No body will believe that the Lagna which rises 4 minutes early every next day, will rise only one minute early on that day. These movements are astronomically controlled; they are not subjective. These are universal truths. Summarizing, I find the Sarini of no use whatsoever. Yes for some people it might have a sentimental value but it has no astrological value. In an academic scrutiny sentiments do not count, the findings are based on objective parameters. If some one turns up and says that the Lal Kitab doesn't need the kind of precision I have talked about, in that case they need not depend on the Sarini under discussion. Every Panchang published carries a sarini based on the place it is published from. They can use that sarini for sthool [ approximate ] Lagna , because the Lagna is going to be the same for almost two hours for the major part of India. Sincerely, Bhooshan Priya , " kulbirbains " <kulbirbains wrote: > > Respected moderators and members; > 1.What exactly is this lagan sarani that people say is the exclusive > method to be applied to foreign births ? is it a published ( or > unpublished) part of lalkitab? > 2.It is writtten at a page in lalkitab that prepare a kundali by > using panchang published by Pt. devi dayal of lahore. is it binding > that all kundali's should be prepared by using that pachang only ? > 3. when modern softwares give minutest details upto seconds level is > it appropriate to stick to that panchang and that lagan sarani? > 4. it may have been useful at that time about 50 years ago but are > we bound by it. > i have several instances to quote where lalkitab practitioner's have > advised people with foreign birth to stick to that sarani. > while comparing the one prepared by lagn sarani and modern > softwares. i personally found that the one prepared by modern > softwares appers much convincing on the basis of tewe ki darusti > method. > > this question needs to be addressed as it is a matter of public > interest because certain people are showing it's copy and tring to > create a monopoly by raising the hype that foreign birth kundali can > be analysed exclusively by using this lagn sarani only. > kulbirbains > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2007 Report Share Posted October 3, 2007 Dear Bhooshan Priya Ji, Well written and concise - I have also posted my own experiences where the upayes did not provide any benefits whatsoever when done using the Lagna Sarini chart in the other forum. Best Regards, Iqbal , " " < wrote: > > Dear Kulbir ji, > > The Lagna Sarini document that you have mentioned is not only > inaccurate it is useless also. When I say `inaccurate' and `useless' > I say with full responsibility. > > Lal Kitab might claim to have done away with Rasi and Nakshatra, but > it cannot do away with Lagna. Ascendant is the keystone for all > systems of astrology, including the Lal Kitab. The Lagna or > ascendant has to be very accurate and precise for all arithmetical > calculations needed in astrology. If the ascendant is not accurate > the subsequent divisions [ varga ] like hora, dreshkran , > dwadashansh etc up to shashthiansh [ 1/60th of a sign ] will be > inaccurate. Therefore the Lagna has to be sookshm [ precise ] and > not sthool [ approximation]. I know that the Lal Kitab doesn't need > the accuracy of the order I am talking about, nevertheless it can > not be ignored if we are evaluating an astrology tool. A Sarini is a > tool used in astrology and therefore has to be evaluated on the > standards set for it. > > A few years ago in Delhi an associate of Pt. Rupchand ji showed me > the Lagna sarini used by Lal Kitab practitioners. I took that > opportunity to study and evaluate it. It is a very tedious task > because it involves reverse engineering. > > I found the following drawbacks in that Lagna Sarini : > > [ 1 ] The Lagna sarini is drawn at Ayanansh 23degrees. The current [ > 2007 ] Lahiri ayanansha is at 23deg 58min 2sec. Therefore any Lagna > worked out through this Sarini will be off by 58 min and 2sec [ here > the word min and sec mean the minute and seconds of a degree and not > time] > > [ 2 ] The Sarini is drawn for the Longitude 82E0 and Latitude 26N0. > This place will be near Allahabad Therefore the Ascendant degrees > shown by this Sarini will be for a birth near Allahabad. Using this > Sarini for any birth in Punjab, or for that matter any where else in > India, will be criminal in astrological terms. > > Before I move on to point out other mistakes in the Sarini I would > request any one to find out for himself as to what I have said is > true or not. > > Whenever we have to find out the co-ordinates of any Lagna Sarini, > the most appropriate parameter to start from is a Surya sankranti > day. There are 12 sankrantis in a year. A sankranti is a day when > the Sun moves to the next Rasi [ zodiac sign] . These sankrantis of > the Sun fall on the same date every year. > > As an example let's take up the Makar Sankranti day. It falls on > January 14th every year. The astrology dictum is `the sun will rise > in the first degree of the sign on that day'. Therefore the > Ascendant at the time of the sunrise on the 14th January will be > within the first degree of Makar [ Capricorn] > > The time of Capricorn rising on the 14th of January shown in the > Lagna sarini under discussion is 6:55am and lasts till 8:37am > > Now take up any kundali software, change the ayanansh to 23deg [ ie > 58'-2 " less than current Lahiri ayanansh ] feed the data : birth at > 6:55am at 82E0 ; 26N0 and see for your self that the ascendant will > be 0cap31 ; this value is within the first degree of Capricorn. > > This will prove my contentions that the Sarini is drawn: > ( i )at 23deg ayanansha which is 58':2 " less than what is today > ( ii ) for longitude 82E0 and Latitude 26N0 [hence not applicable > for the rest of the country] > > Now coming to other misprints amounting to mistakes in the lagna > sarini under discussion: > > [ 1 ] Add up the duration of all the 12 Lagna for any day. The total > doesn't come to 24 hours. Now who will believe that the earth > revolved one complete circle on its axis in less than 24 hours. The > total of all the 12 Lagna duration has to be 24 hours, no less no > more. > > [ 2 ] From January till the end of December the time of rising of > every lagna keeps reducing by 4 minutes every day i.e. every lagna > rises 4 minutes before its previous day rising time. > In the sarini have a look at the rising time of lagna on the January > 13th and January 14th. The difference printed is just one minute. > This mistake is carried on all along. No body will believe that the > Lagna which rises 4 minutes early every next day, will rise only one > minute early on that day. > > These movements are astronomically controlled; they are not > subjective. These are universal truths. > > Summarizing, I find the Sarini of no use whatsoever. Yes for some > people it might have a sentimental value but it has no astrological > value. In an academic scrutiny sentiments do not count, the findings > are based on objective parameters. > > If some one turns up and says that the Lal Kitab doesn't need the > kind of precision I have talked about, in that case they need not > depend on the Sarini under discussion. Every Panchang published > carries a sarini based on the place it is published from. They can > use that sarini for sthool [ approximate ] Lagna , because the Lagna > is going to be the same for almost two hours for the major part of > India. > > Sincerely, > > Bhooshan Priya > > > > > > > > > , " kulbirbains " > <kulbirbains@> wrote: > > > > Respected moderators and members; > > 1.What exactly is this lagan sarani that people say is the > exclusive > > method to be applied to foreign births ? is it a published ( or > > unpublished) part of lalkitab? > > 2.It is writtten at a page in lalkitab that prepare a kundali by > > using panchang published by Pt. devi dayal of lahore. is it > binding > > that all kundali's should be prepared by using that pachang only ? > > 3. when modern softwares give minutest details upto seconds level > is > > it appropriate to stick to that panchang and that lagan sarani? > > 4. it may have been useful at that time about 50 years ago but are > > we bound by it. > > i have several instances to quote where lalkitab practitioner's > have > > advised people with foreign birth to stick to that sarani. > > while comparing the one prepared by lagn sarani and modern > > softwares. i personally found that the one prepared by modern > > softwares appers much convincing on the basis of tewe ki darusti > > method. > > > > this question needs to be addressed as it is a matter of public > > interest because certain people are showing it's copy and tring to > > create a monopoly by raising the hype that foreign birth kundali > can > > be analysed exclusively by using this lagn sarani only. > > kulbirbains > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 dear sirs, Lagan Sarini had been prepared by respected pundit ji on the basis of 'madras time'. it was never used for preparation of horoscopes or tewas.it was used only for drusti of tewa whenever the predicions did not match the kundli. U must appreciate its importance keeping in view the times when it was prepared and even the panchangs at that time were not that accurate. If u shall compare it as par Madras time;may be u find it not to be that incorrect. Infact pundit ji used to say that while coming to him one should come with a good horoscope and the pundit could charge whatever amount he likes for preparing it, it is pundit's right. It is not a part of LK; but respected pundit ji had it prepared in the form of a booklet himself-- i do have one handed over to me by respected pundit ji. sincerely, kiranjeet Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Autos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 Dear Kiranjit ji, I had examined that possibility also. I also knew that the Sarini which Pandit ji used is said to be based on Madras time. But when I examined assuming the birth at Madras, it was found inaccurate even then. Since you have the original sarini, the test is simple.: Select any date from the Sarini, change the value of Lahiri ayanansh to 23 degrees [ less 58' : 2 " than the current 2007 ayanansh ] , assume the birth at Madras [ 80E15 ; 13N4 ] and put the time of birth as the beginning of the Lagna. See if you get the same lagna in the first degree of that sign. If you get the lagna a few degrees either side, keep changing the time of birth till you get it in the first degree of that sign. When you get it in the first degree you know that is the time for that Lagna to rise. Just for information, at Madras the Makar rises at 6:39 am on January 14th with ayanansha 23 degrees. The sarini shows that Makar rises at 6:55 am. The difference is for all to see. In astrology 16 minutes mean a lot. Sincerely, Bhooshan Priya , kiranjit kumar <kapatjal wrote: > > dear sirs, > Lagan Sarini had been prepared by respected pundit ji on the basis of 'madras time'. > it was never used for preparation of horoscopes or tewas.it was used only for drusti of tewa whenever the predicions did not match the kundli. > U must appreciate its importance keeping in view the times when it was prepared and even the panchangs at that time were not that accurate. > If u shall compare it as par Madras time;may be u find it not to be that incorrect. > Infact pundit ji used to say that while coming to him one should come with a good horoscope and the pundit could charge whatever amount he likes for preparing it, it is pundit's right. > It is not a part of LK; but respected pundit ji had it prepared in the form of a booklet himself-- i do have one handed over to me by respected pundit ji. > sincerely, > kiranjeet > > > > Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Autos. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 Guruji aapne apne wyasat samay se time nikal kar is mude ko samajhaya. aapka bahut bahut shukriya. aise controversial topic par koi authority bole tabhi baat maiyne rakhti hai. aabhari kulbir bains , " " < wrote: > > Dear Kulbir ji, > > The Lagna Sarini document that you have mentioned is not only > inaccurate it is useless also. When I say `inaccurate' and `useless' > I say with full responsibility. > > Lal Kitab might claim to have done away with Rasi and Nakshatra, but > it cannot do away with Lagna. Ascendant is the keystone for all > systems of astrology, including the Lal Kitab. The Lagna or > ascendant has to be very accurate and precise for all arithmetical > calculations needed in astrology. If the ascendant is not accurate > the subsequent divisions [ varga ] like hora, dreshkran , > dwadashansh etc up to shashthiansh [ 1/60th of a sign ] will be > inaccurate. Therefore the Lagna has to be sookshm [ precise ] and > not sthool [ approximation]. I know that the Lal Kitab doesn't need > the accuracy of the order I am talking about, nevertheless it can > not be ignored if we are evaluating an astrology tool. A Sarini is a > tool used in astrology and therefore has to be evaluated on the > standards set for it. > > A few years ago in Delhi an associate of Pt. Rupchand ji showed me > the Lagna sarini used by Lal Kitab practitioners. I took that > opportunity to study and evaluate it. It is a very tedious task > because it involves reverse engineering. > > I found the following drawbacks in that Lagna Sarini : > > [ 1 ] The Lagna sarini is drawn at Ayanansh 23degrees. The current [ > 2007 ] Lahiri ayanansha is at 23deg 58min 2sec. Therefore any Lagna > worked out through this Sarini will be off by 58 min and 2sec [ here > the word min and sec mean the minute and seconds of a degree and not > time] > > [ 2 ] The Sarini is drawn for the Longitude 82E0 and Latitude 26N0. > This place will be near Allahabad Therefore the Ascendant degrees > shown by this Sarini will be for a birth near Allahabad. Using this > Sarini for any birth in Punjab, or for that matter any where else in > India, will be criminal in astrological terms. > > Before I move on to point out other mistakes in the Sarini I would > request any one to find out for himself as to what I have said is > true or not. > > Whenever we have to find out the co-ordinates of any Lagna Sarini, > the most appropriate parameter to start from is a Surya sankranti > day. There are 12 sankrantis in a year. A sankranti is a day when > the Sun moves to the next Rasi [ zodiac sign] . These sankrantis of > the Sun fall on the same date every year. > > As an example let's take up the Makar Sankranti day. It falls on > January 14th every year. The astrology dictum is `the sun will rise > in the first degree of the sign on that day'. Therefore the > Ascendant at the time of the sunrise on the 14th January will be > within the first degree of Makar [ Capricorn] > > The time of Capricorn rising on the 14th of January shown in the > Lagna sarini under discussion is 6:55am and lasts till 8:37am > > Now take up any kundali software, change the ayanansh to 23deg [ ie > 58'-2 " less than current Lahiri ayanansh ] feed the data : birth at > 6:55am at 82E0 ; 26N0 and see for your self that the ascendant will > be 0cap31 ; this value is within the first degree of Capricorn. > > This will prove my contentions that the Sarini is drawn: > ( i )at 23deg ayanansha which is 58':2 " less than what is today > ( ii ) for longitude 82E0 and Latitude 26N0 [hence not applicable > for the rest of the country] > > Now coming to other misprints amounting to mistakes in the lagna > sarini under discussion: > > [ 1 ] Add up the duration of all the 12 Lagna for any day. The total > doesn't come to 24 hours. Now who will believe that the earth > revolved one complete circle on its axis in less than 24 hours. The > total of all the 12 Lagna duration has to be 24 hours, no less no > more. > > [ 2 ] From January till the end of December the time of rising of > every lagna keeps reducing by 4 minutes every day i.e. every lagna > rises 4 minutes before its previous day rising time. > In the sarini have a look at the rising time of lagna on the January > 13th and January 14th. The difference printed is just one minute. > This mistake is carried on all along. No body will believe that the > Lagna which rises 4 minutes early every next day, will rise only one > minute early on that day. > > These movements are astronomically controlled; they are not > subjective. These are universal truths. > > Summarizing, I find the Sarini of no use whatsoever. Yes for some > people it might have a sentimental value but it has no astrological > value. In an academic scrutiny sentiments do not count, the findings > are based on objective parameters. > > If some one turns up and says that the Lal Kitab doesn't need the > kind of precision I have talked about, in that case they need not > depend on the Sarini under discussion. Every Panchang published > carries a sarini based on the place it is published from. They can > use that sarini for sthool [ approximate ] Lagna , because the Lagna > is going to be the same for almost two hours for the major part of > India. > > Sincerely, > > Bhooshan Priya > > > > > > > > > , " kulbirbains " > <kulbirbains@> wrote: > > > > Respected moderators and members; > > 1.What exactly is this lagan sarani that people say is the > exclusive > > method to be applied to foreign births ? is it a published ( or > > unpublished) part of lalkitab? > > 2.It is writtten at a page in lalkitab that prepare a kundali by > > using panchang published by Pt. devi dayal of lahore. is it > binding > > that all kundali's should be prepared by using that pachang only ? > > 3. when modern softwares give minutest details upto seconds level > is > > it appropriate to stick to that panchang and that lagan sarani? > > 4. it may have been useful at that time about 50 years ago but are > > we bound by it. > > i have several instances to quote where lalkitab practitioner's > have > > advised people with foreign birth to stick to that sarani. > > while comparing the one prepared by lagn sarani and modern > > softwares. i personally found that the one prepared by modern > > softwares appers much convincing on the basis of tewe ki darusti > > method. > > > > this question needs to be addressed as it is a matter of public > > interest because certain people are showing it's copy and tring to > > create a monopoly by raising the hype that foreign birth kundali > can > > be analysed exclusively by using this lagn sarani only. > > kulbirbains > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 This is great Bhooshan Ji- Even from a vedic approach this method has been proven fallible. I appreciate the effort with which you have shown your logical and umemotional methodology. Why are so many senior members of the forum mum on this topic? Some of you have claimed you have even used this approach ... Come forward and share your successes with it ... I have submitted 3 postings in both forums [ Lal Kitab and astrostudent ] all of which have not been posted because of the censorship on truth and straightforwardness that apparently the Forum moderators are married to. Best Regards, Iqbal Sent via Blackberry " " < Thu, 04 Oct 2007 15:27:38 Lal Kitab Discussion Group Re: Lagn sarani : an inaCcurate document Dear Kiranjit ji, I had examined that possibility also. I also knew that the Sarini which Pandit ji used is said to be based on Madras time. But when I examined assuming the birth at Madras, it was found inaccurate even then. Since you have the original sarini, the test is simple.: Select any date from the Sarini, change the value of Lahiri ayanansh to 23 degrees [ less 58' : 2 " than the current 2007 ayanansh ] , assume the birth at Madras [ 80E15 ; 13N4 ] and put the time of birth as the beginning of the Lagna. See if you get the same lagna in the first degree of that sign. If you get the lagna a few degrees either side, keep changing the time of birth till you get it in the first degree of that sign. When you get it in the first degree you know that is the time for that Lagna to rise. Just for information, at Madras the Makar rises at 6:39 am on January 14th with ayanansha 23 degrees. The sarini shows that Makar rises at 6:55 am. The difference is for all to see. In astrology 16 minutes mean a lot. Sincerely, Bhooshan Priya <%40> @, kiranjit kumar <kapatjal wrote: > > dear sirs, > Lagan Sarini had been prepared by respected pundit ji on the basis of 'madras time'. > it was never used for preparation of horoscopes or tewas.it was used only for drusti of tewa whenever the predicions did not match the kundli. > U must appreciate its importance keeping in view the times when it was prepared and even the panchangs at that time were not that accurate. > If u shall compare it as par Madras time;may be u find it not to be that incorrect. > Infact pundit ji used to say that while coming to him one should come with a good horoscope and the pundit could charge whatever amount he likes for preparing it, it is pundit's right. > It is not a part of LK; but respected pundit ji had it prepared in the form of a booklet himself-- i do have one handed over to me by respected pundit ji. > sincerely, > kiranjeet > > > > Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Autos. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 Respected Bhooshan JI I also tried to solve this puzzle of sarani a couple of months before.But I found that the latitude & longitude were near about Varanasi = 82E30 25N20. at 23 ayananshas. I think this Saarani blongs to the area of Varanasi (U.P.).In my opinion also, this sarani cant be logical for the abroad borned in these days. I think all other experts can through some light, having some authentic & historical key-pages about it.Otherwise its no use in my opinion.I have a clear concept that--- Chahey chandar ko khada ghodaa banaa diyaa jaaye, nakshattar bhi bhoola diye jaayain raashi ko bhi chhod diyaa jaaye.Fir bhi lagan sarani kee baat chalney par Dharatee(EARTH) ka ghoomnaa kabhi bhi nazar andaaz nahi kiyaa ja saktaa.Kyonki lagan saarni seedhey seedhey isse sambandh rakhtee hai. U try these latitude & longitudes also plz for more confirmation.I will also be satisfied that one is here who can understand this logic. With Regards Pt. Lalkitabee www.lalkitabee.com Mb. 9812020001 , " " < wrote: > > Dear Kulbir ji, > > The Lagna Sarini document that you have mentioned is not only > inaccurate it is useless also. When I say `inaccurate' and `useless' > I say with full responsibility. > > Lal Kitab might claim to have done away with Rasi and Nakshatra, but > it cannot do away with Lagna. Ascendant is the keystone for all > systems of astrology, including the Lal Kitab. The Lagna or > ascendant has to be very accurate and precise for all arithmetical > calculations needed in astrology. If the ascendant is not accurate > the subsequent divisions [ varga ] like hora, dreshkran , > dwadashansh etc up to shashthiansh [ 1/60th of a sign ] will be > inaccurate. Therefore the Lagna has to be sookshm [ precise ] and > not sthool [ approximation]. I know that the Lal Kitab doesn't need > the accuracy of the order I am talking about, nevertheless it can > not be ignored if we are evaluating an astrology tool. A Sarini is a > tool used in astrology and therefore has to be evaluated on the > standards set for it. > > A few years ago in Delhi an associate of Pt. Rupchand ji showed me > the Lagna sarini used by Lal Kitab practitioners. I took that > opportunity to study and evaluate it. It is a very tedious task > because it involves reverse engineering. > > I found the following drawbacks in that Lagna Sarini : > > [ 1 ] The Lagna sarini is drawn at Ayanansh 23degrees. The current [ > 2007 ] Lahiri ayanansha is at 23deg 58min 2sec. Therefore any Lagna > worked out through this Sarini will be off by 58 min and 2sec [ here > the word min and sec mean the minute and seconds of a degree and not > time] > > [ 2 ] The Sarini is drawn for the Longitude 82E0 and Latitude 26N0. > This place will be near Allahabad Therefore the Ascendant degrees > shown by this Sarini will be for a birth near Allahabad. Using this > Sarini for any birth in Punjab, or for that matter any where else in > India, will be criminal in astrological terms. > > Before I move on to point out other mistakes in the Sarini I would > request any one to find out for himself as to what I have said is > true or not. > > Whenever we have to find out the co-ordinates of any Lagna Sarini, > the most appropriate parameter to start from is a Surya sankranti > day. There are 12 sankrantis in a year. A sankranti is a day when > the Sun moves to the next Rasi [ zodiac sign] . These sankrantis of > the Sun fall on the same date every year. > > As an example let's take up the Makar Sankranti day. It falls on > January 14th every year. The astrology dictum is `the sun will rise > in the first degree of the sign on that day'. Therefore the > Ascendant at the time of the sunrise on the 14th January will be > within the first degree of Makar [ Capricorn] > > The time of Capricorn rising on the 14th of January shown in the > Lagna sarini under discussion is 6:55am and lasts till 8:37am > > Now take up any kundali software, change the ayanansh to 23deg [ ie > 58'-2 " less than current Lahiri ayanansh ] feed the data : birth at > 6:55am at 82E0 ; 26N0 and see for your self that the ascendant will > be 0cap31 ; this value is within the first degree of Capricorn. > > This will prove my contentions that the Sarini is drawn: > ( i )at 23deg ayanansha which is 58':2 " less than what is today > ( ii ) for longitude 82E0 and Latitude 26N0 [hence not applicable > for the rest of the country] > > Now coming to other misprints amounting to mistakes in the lagna > sarini under discussion: > > [ 1 ] Add up the duration of all the 12 Lagna for any day. The total > doesn't come to 24 hours. Now who will believe that the earth > revolved one complete circle on its axis in less than 24 hours. The > total of all the 12 Lagna duration has to be 24 hours, no less no > more. > > [ 2 ] From January till the end of December the time of rising of > every lagna keeps reducing by 4 minutes every day i.e. every lagna > rises 4 minutes before its previous day rising time. > In the sarini have a look at the rising time of lagna on the January > 13th and January 14th. The difference printed is just one minute. > This mistake is carried on all along. No body will believe that the > Lagna which rises 4 minutes early every next day, will rise only one > minute early on that day. > > These movements are astronomically controlled; they are not > subjective. These are universal truths. > > Summarizing, I find the Sarini of no use whatsoever. Yes for some > people it might have a sentimental value but it has no astrological > value. In an academic scrutiny sentiments do not count, the findings > are based on objective parameters. > > If some one turns up and says that the Lal Kitab doesn't need the > kind of precision I have talked about, in that case they need not > depend on the Sarini under discussion. Every Panchang published > carries a sarini based on the place it is published from. They can > use that sarini for sthool [ approximate ] Lagna , because the Lagna > is going to be the same for almost two hours for the major part of > India. > > Sincerely, > > Bhooshan Priya > > > > > > > > > , " kulbirbains " > <kulbirbains@> wrote: > > > > Respected moderators and members; > > 1.What exactly is this lagan sarani that people say is the > exclusive > > method to be applied to foreign births ? is it a published ( or > > unpublished) part of lalkitab? > > 2.It is writtten at a page in lalkitab that prepare a kundali by > > using panchang published by Pt. devi dayal of lahore. is it > binding > > that all kundali's should be prepared by using that pachang only ? > > 3. when modern softwares give minutest details upto seconds level > is > > it appropriate to stick to that panchang and that lagan sarani? > > 4. it may have been useful at that time about 50 years ago but are > > we bound by it. > > i have several instances to quote where lalkitab practitioner's > have > > advised people with foreign birth to stick to that sarani. > > while comparing the one prepared by lagn sarani and modern > > softwares. i personally found that the one prepared by modern > > softwares appers much convincing on the basis of tewe ki darusti > > method. > > > > this question needs to be addressed as it is a matter of public > > interest because certain people are showing it's copy and tring to > > create a monopoly by raising the hype that foreign birth kundali > can > > be analysed exclusively by using this lagn sarani only. > > kulbirbains > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 Respected Lalkitabee ji, Res Kiranjit Kumar ji has already clarified that this Sarini was not used to cast horoscopes both Indian or those born abroad. It was used now and then to varify the kundalis which Pandit Rupchand ji thought were not well drawn. Regards, Varun Trivedi , " lalkitabee " <lalkitabee wrote: > > Respected Bhooshan JI > > > I also tried to solve this puzzle of sarani a couple of months > before.But I found that the latitude & longitude were near about > Varanasi = 82E30 25N20. at 23 ayananshas. > > > I think this Saarani blongs to the area of Varanasi (U.P.).In my > opinion also, this sarani cant be logical for the abroad borned in > these days. I think all other experts can through some light, having > some authentic & historical key-pages about it.Otherwise its no use > in my opinion.I have a clear concept that--- Chahey chandar ko khada > ghodaa banaa diyaa jaaye, nakshattar bhi bhoola diye jaayain raashi > ko bhi chhod diyaa jaaye.Fir bhi lagan sarani kee baat chalney par > Dharatee(EARTH) ka ghoomnaa kabhi bhi nazar andaaz nahi kiyaa ja > saktaa.Kyonki lagan saarni seedhey seedhey isse sambandh rakhtee hai. > U try these latitude & longitudes also plz for more confirmation.I > will also be satisfied that one is here who can understand this logic. > > With Regards > > Pt. Lalkitabee > www.lalkitabee.com > Mb. 9812020001 > > > > > > , " " > <@> wrote: > > > > Dear Kulbir ji, > > > > The Lagna Sarini document that you have mentioned is not only > > inaccurate it is useless also. When I say `inaccurate' and > `useless' > > I say with full responsibility. > > > > Lal Kitab might claim to have done away with Rasi and Nakshatra, > but > > it cannot do away with Lagna. Ascendant is the keystone for all > > systems of astrology, including the Lal Kitab. The Lagna or > > ascendant has to be very accurate and precise for all arithmetical > > calculations needed in astrology. If the ascendant is not accurate > > the subsequent divisions [ varga ] like hora, dreshkran , > > dwadashansh etc up to shashthiansh [ 1/60th of a sign ] will be > > inaccurate. Therefore the Lagna has to be sookshm [ precise ] and > > not sthool [ approximation]. I know that the Lal Kitab doesn't need > > the accuracy of the order I am talking about, nevertheless it can > > not be ignored if we are evaluating an astrology tool. A Sarini is > a > > tool used in astrology and therefore has to be evaluated on the > > standards set for it. > > > > A few years ago in Delhi an associate of Pt. Rupchand ji showed me > > the Lagna sarini used by Lal Kitab practitioners. I took that > > opportunity to study and evaluate it. It is a very tedious task > > because it involves reverse engineering. > > > > I found the following drawbacks in that Lagna Sarini : > > > > [ 1 ] The Lagna sarini is drawn at Ayanansh 23degrees. The current > [ > > 2007 ] Lahiri ayanansha is at 23deg 58min 2sec. Therefore any Lagna > > worked out through this Sarini will be off by 58 min and 2sec [ > here > > the word min and sec mean the minute and seconds of a degree and > not > > time] > > > > [ 2 ] The Sarini is drawn for the Longitude 82E0 and Latitude 26N0. > > This place will be near Allahabad Therefore the Ascendant degrees > > shown by this Sarini will be for a birth near Allahabad. Using this > > Sarini for any birth in Punjab, or for that matter any where else > in > > India, will be criminal in astrological terms. > > > > Before I move on to point out other mistakes in the Sarini I would > > request any one to find out for himself as to what I have said is > > true or not. > > > > Whenever we have to find out the co-ordinates of any Lagna Sarini, > > the most appropriate parameter to start from is a Surya sankranti > > day. There are 12 sankrantis in a year. A sankranti is a day when > > the Sun moves to the next Rasi [ zodiac sign] . These sankrantis > of > > the Sun fall on the same date every year. > > > > As an example let's take up the Makar Sankranti day. It falls on > > January 14th every year. The astrology dictum is `the sun will rise > > in the first degree of the sign on that day'. Therefore the > > Ascendant at the time of the sunrise on the 14th January will be > > within the first degree of Makar [ Capricorn] > > > > The time of Capricorn rising on the 14th of January shown in the > > Lagna sarini under discussion is 6:55am and lasts till 8:37am > > > > Now take up any kundali software, change the ayanansh to 23deg [ ie > > 58'-2 " less than current Lahiri ayanansh ] feed the data : birth at > > 6:55am at 82E0 ; 26N0 and see for your self that the ascendant > will > > be 0cap31 ; this value is within the first degree of Capricorn. > > > > This will prove my contentions that the Sarini is drawn: > > ( i )at 23deg ayanansha which is 58':2 " less than what is today > > ( ii ) for longitude 82E0 and Latitude 26N0 [hence not applicable > > for the rest of the country] > > > > Now coming to other misprints amounting to mistakes in the lagna > > sarini under discussion: > > > > [ 1 ] Add up the duration of all the 12 Lagna for any day. The > total > > doesn't come to 24 hours. Now who will believe that the earth > > revolved one complete circle on its axis in less than 24 hours. The > > total of all the 12 Lagna duration has to be 24 hours, no less no > > more. > > > > [ 2 ] From January till the end of December the time of rising of > > every lagna keeps reducing by 4 minutes every day i.e. every lagna > > rises 4 minutes before its previous day rising time. > > In the sarini have a look at the rising time of lagna on the > January > > 13th and January 14th. The difference printed is just one minute. > > This mistake is carried on all along. No body will believe that > the > > Lagna which rises 4 minutes early every next day, will rise only > one > > minute early on that day. > > > > These movements are astronomically controlled; they are not > > subjective. These are universal truths. > > > > Summarizing, I find the Sarini of no use whatsoever. Yes for some > > people it might have a sentimental value but it has no astrological > > value. In an academic scrutiny sentiments do not count, the > findings > > are based on objective parameters. > > > > If some one turns up and says that the Lal Kitab doesn't need the > > kind of precision I have talked about, in that case they need not > > depend on the Sarini under discussion. Every Panchang published > > carries a sarini based on the place it is published from. They can > > use that sarini for sthool [ approximate ] Lagna , because the > Lagna > > is going to be the same for almost two hours for the major part of > > India. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Bhooshan Priya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " kulbirbains " > > <kulbirbains@> wrote: > > > > > > Respected moderators and members; > > > 1.What exactly is this lagan sarani that people say is the > > exclusive > > > method to be applied to foreign births ? is it a published ( or > > > unpublished) part of lalkitab? > > > 2.It is writtten at a page in lalkitab that prepare a kundali by > > > using panchang published by Pt. devi dayal of lahore. is it > > binding > > > that all kundali's should be prepared by using that pachang only ? > > > 3. when modern softwares give minutest details upto seconds level > > is > > > it appropriate to stick to that panchang and that lagan sarani? > > > 4. it may have been useful at that time about 50 years ago but > are > > > we bound by it. > > > i have several instances to quote where lalkitab practitioner's > > have > > > advised people with foreign birth to stick to that sarani. > > > while comparing the one prepared by lagn sarani and modern > > > softwares. i personally found that the one prepared by modern > > > softwares appers much convincing on the basis of tewe ki darusti > > > method. > > > > > > this question needs to be addressed as it is a matter of public > > > interest because certain people are showing it's copy and tring > to > > > create a monopoly by raising the hype that foreign birth kundali > > can > > > be analysed exclusively by using this lagn sarani only. > > > kulbirbains > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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