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Dear Kulbir ji,

 

The Lagna Sarini document that you have mentioned is not only

inaccurate it is useless also. When I say `inaccurate' and `useless'

I say with full responsibility.

 

Lal Kitab might claim to have done away with Rasi and Nakshatra, but

it cannot do away with Lagna. Ascendant is the keystone for all

systems of astrology, including the Lal Kitab. The Lagna or

ascendant has to be very accurate and precise for all arithmetical

calculations needed in astrology. If the ascendant is not accurate

the subsequent divisions [ varga ] like hora, dreshkran ,

dwadashansh etc up to shashthiansh [ 1/60th of a sign ] will be

inaccurate. Therefore the Lagna has to be sookshm [ precise ] and

not sthool [ approximation]. I know that the Lal Kitab doesn't need

the accuracy of the order I am talking about, nevertheless it can

not be ignored if we are evaluating an astrology tool. A Sarini is a

tool used in astrology and therefore has to be evaluated on the

standards set for it.

 

A few years ago in Delhi an associate of Pt. Rupchand ji showed me

the Lagna sarini used by Lal Kitab practitioners. I took that

opportunity to study and evaluate it. It is a very tedious task

because it involves reverse engineering.

 

I found the following drawbacks in that Lagna Sarini :

 

[ 1 ] The Lagna sarini is drawn at Ayanansh 23degrees. The current [

2007 ] Lahiri ayanansha is at 23deg 58min 2sec. Therefore any Lagna

worked out through this Sarini will be off by 58 min and 2sec [ here

the word min and sec mean the minute and seconds of a degree and not

time]

 

[ 2 ] The Sarini is drawn for the Longitude 82E0 and Latitude 26N0.

This place will be near Allahabad Therefore the Ascendant degrees

shown by this Sarini will be for a birth near Allahabad. Using this

Sarini for any birth in Punjab, or for that matter any where else in

India, will be criminal in astrological terms.

 

Before I move on to point out other mistakes in the Sarini I would

request any one to find out for himself as to what I have said is

true or not.

 

Whenever we have to find out the co-ordinates of any Lagna Sarini,

the most appropriate parameter to start from is a Surya sankranti

day. There are 12 sankrantis in a year. A sankranti is a day when

the Sun moves to the next Rasi [ zodiac sign] . These sankrantis of

the Sun fall on the same date every year.

 

As an example let's take up the Makar Sankranti day. It falls on

January 14th every year. The astrology dictum is `the sun will rise

in the first degree of the sign on that day'. Therefore the

Ascendant at the time of the sunrise on the 14th January will be

within the first degree of Makar [ Capricorn]

 

The time of Capricorn rising on the 14th of January shown in the

Lagna sarini under discussion is 6:55am and lasts till 8:37am

 

Now take up any kundali software, change the ayanansh to 23deg [ ie

58'-2 " less than current Lahiri ayanansh ] feed the data : birth at

6:55am at 82E0 ; 26N0 and see for your self that the ascendant will

be 0cap31 ; this value is within the first degree of Capricorn.

 

This will prove my contentions that the Sarini is drawn:

( i )at 23deg ayanansha which is 58':2 " less than what is today

( ii ) for longitude 82E0 and Latitude 26N0 [hence not applicable

for the rest of the country]

 

Now coming to other misprints amounting to mistakes in the lagna

sarini under discussion:

 

[ 1 ] Add up the duration of all the 12 Lagna for any day. The total

doesn't come to 24 hours. Now who will believe that the earth

revolved one complete circle on its axis in less than 24 hours. The

total of all the 12 Lagna duration has to be 24 hours, no less no

more.

 

[ 2 ] From January till the end of December the time of rising of

every lagna keeps reducing by 4 minutes every day i.e. every lagna

rises 4 minutes before its previous day rising time.

In the sarini have a look at the rising time of lagna on the January

13th and January 14th. The difference printed is just one minute.

This mistake is carried on all along. No body will believe that the

Lagna which rises 4 minutes early every next day, will rise only one

minute early on that day.

 

These movements are astronomically controlled; they are not

subjective. These are universal truths.

 

Summarizing, I find the Sarini of no use whatsoever. Yes for some

people it might have a sentimental value but it has no astrological

value. In an academic scrutiny sentiments do not count, the findings

are based on objective parameters.

 

If some one turns up and says that the Lal Kitab doesn't need the

kind of precision I have talked about, in that case they need not

depend on the Sarini under discussion. Every Panchang published

carries a sarini based on the place it is published from. They can

use that sarini for sthool [ approximate ] Lagna , because the Lagna

is going to be the same for almost two hours for the major part of

India.

 

Sincerely,

 

Bhooshan Priya

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, " kulbirbains "

<kulbirbains wrote:

>

> Respected moderators and members;

> 1.What exactly is this lagan sarani that people say is the

exclusive

> method to be applied to foreign births ? is it a published ( or

> unpublished) part of lalkitab?

> 2.It is writtten at a page in lalkitab that prepare a kundali by

> using panchang published by Pt. devi dayal of lahore. is it

binding

> that all kundali's should be prepared by using that pachang only ?

> 3. when modern softwares give minutest details upto seconds level

is

> it appropriate to stick to that panchang and that lagan sarani?

> 4. it may have been useful at that time about 50 years ago but are

> we bound by it.

> i have several instances to quote where lalkitab practitioner's

have

> advised people with foreign birth to stick to that sarani.

> while comparing the one prepared by lagn sarani and modern

> softwares. i personally found that the one prepared by modern

> softwares appers much convincing on the basis of tewe ki darusti

> method.

>

> this question needs to be addressed as it is a matter of public

> interest because certain people are showing it's copy and tring to

> create a monopoly by raising the hype that foreign birth kundali

can

> be analysed exclusively by using this lagn sarani only.

> kulbirbains

>

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Dear Bhooshan Priya Ji,

 

Well written and concise - I have also posted my own experiences

where the upayes did not provide any benefits whatsoever when done

using the Lagna Sarini chart in the other forum.

 

Best Regards,

Iqbal

 

 

, " "

< wrote:

>

> Dear Kulbir ji,

>

> The Lagna Sarini document that you have mentioned is not only

> inaccurate it is useless also. When I say `inaccurate' and

`useless'

> I say with full responsibility.

>

> Lal Kitab might claim to have done away with Rasi and Nakshatra,

but

> it cannot do away with Lagna. Ascendant is the keystone for all

> systems of astrology, including the Lal Kitab. The Lagna or

> ascendant has to be very accurate and precise for all arithmetical

> calculations needed in astrology. If the ascendant is not accurate

> the subsequent divisions [ varga ] like hora, dreshkran ,

> dwadashansh etc up to shashthiansh [ 1/60th of a sign ] will be

> inaccurate. Therefore the Lagna has to be sookshm [ precise ] and

> not sthool [ approximation]. I know that the Lal Kitab doesn't

need

> the accuracy of the order I am talking about, nevertheless it can

> not be ignored if we are evaluating an astrology tool. A Sarini is

a

> tool used in astrology and therefore has to be evaluated on the

> standards set for it.

>

> A few years ago in Delhi an associate of Pt. Rupchand ji showed me

> the Lagna sarini used by Lal Kitab practitioners. I took that

> opportunity to study and evaluate it. It is a very tedious task

> because it involves reverse engineering.

>

> I found the following drawbacks in that Lagna Sarini :

>

> [ 1 ] The Lagna sarini is drawn at Ayanansh 23degrees. The current

[

> 2007 ] Lahiri ayanansha is at 23deg 58min 2sec. Therefore any

Lagna

> worked out through this Sarini will be off by 58 min and 2sec [

here

> the word min and sec mean the minute and seconds of a degree and

not

> time]

>

> [ 2 ] The Sarini is drawn for the Longitude 82E0 and Latitude

26N0.

> This place will be near Allahabad Therefore the Ascendant degrees

> shown by this Sarini will be for a birth near Allahabad. Using

this

> Sarini for any birth in Punjab, or for that matter any where else

in

> India, will be criminal in astrological terms.

>

> Before I move on to point out other mistakes in the Sarini I would

> request any one to find out for himself as to what I have said is

> true or not.

>

> Whenever we have to find out the co-ordinates of any Lagna Sarini,

> the most appropriate parameter to start from is a Surya sankranti

> day. There are 12 sankrantis in a year. A sankranti is a day when

> the Sun moves to the next Rasi [ zodiac sign] . These sankrantis

of

> the Sun fall on the same date every year.

>

> As an example let's take up the Makar Sankranti day. It falls on

> January 14th every year. The astrology dictum is `the sun will

rise

> in the first degree of the sign on that day'. Therefore the

> Ascendant at the time of the sunrise on the 14th January will be

> within the first degree of Makar [ Capricorn]

>

> The time of Capricorn rising on the 14th of January shown in the

> Lagna sarini under discussion is 6:55am and lasts till 8:37am

>

> Now take up any kundali software, change the ayanansh to 23deg [

ie

> 58'-2 " less than current Lahiri ayanansh ] feed the data : birth

at

> 6:55am at 82E0 ; 26N0 and see for your self that the ascendant

will

> be 0cap31 ; this value is within the first degree of Capricorn.

>

> This will prove my contentions that the Sarini is drawn:

> ( i )at 23deg ayanansha which is 58':2 " less than what is today

> ( ii ) for longitude 82E0 and Latitude 26N0 [hence not applicable

> for the rest of the country]

>

> Now coming to other misprints amounting to mistakes in the lagna

> sarini under discussion:

>

> [ 1 ] Add up the duration of all the 12 Lagna for any day. The

total

> doesn't come to 24 hours. Now who will believe that the earth

> revolved one complete circle on its axis in less than 24 hours.

The

> total of all the 12 Lagna duration has to be 24 hours, no less no

> more.

>

> [ 2 ] From January till the end of December the time of rising of

> every lagna keeps reducing by 4 minutes every day i.e. every lagna

> rises 4 minutes before its previous day rising time.

> In the sarini have a look at the rising time of lagna on the

January

> 13th and January 14th. The difference printed is just one minute.

> This mistake is carried on all along. No body will believe that

the

> Lagna which rises 4 minutes early every next day, will rise only

one

> minute early on that day.

>

> These movements are astronomically controlled; they are not

> subjective. These are universal truths.

>

> Summarizing, I find the Sarini of no use whatsoever. Yes for some

> people it might have a sentimental value but it has no

astrological

> value. In an academic scrutiny sentiments do not count, the

findings

> are based on objective parameters.

>

> If some one turns up and says that the Lal Kitab doesn't need the

> kind of precision I have talked about, in that case they need not

> depend on the Sarini under discussion. Every Panchang published

> carries a sarini based on the place it is published from. They can

> use that sarini for sthool [ approximate ] Lagna , because the

Lagna

> is going to be the same for almost two hours for the major part of

> India.

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Bhooshan Priya

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

, " kulbirbains "

> <kulbirbains@> wrote:

> >

> > Respected moderators and members;

> > 1.What exactly is this lagan sarani that people say is the

> exclusive

> > method to be applied to foreign births ? is it a published ( or

> > unpublished) part of lalkitab?

> > 2.It is writtten at a page in lalkitab that prepare a kundali by

> > using panchang published by Pt. devi dayal of lahore. is it

> binding

> > that all kundali's should be prepared by using that pachang

only ?

> > 3. when modern softwares give minutest details upto seconds

level

> is

> > it appropriate to stick to that panchang and that lagan sarani?

> > 4. it may have been useful at that time about 50 years ago but

are

> > we bound by it.

> > i have several instances to quote where lalkitab practitioner's

> have

> > advised people with foreign birth to stick to that sarani.

> > while comparing the one prepared by lagn sarani and modern

> > softwares. i personally found that the one prepared by modern

> > softwares appers much convincing on the basis of tewe ki darusti

> > method.

> >

> > this question needs to be addressed as it is a matter of public

> > interest because certain people are showing it's copy and tring

to

> > create a monopoly by raising the hype that foreign birth kundali

> can

> > be analysed exclusively by using this lagn sarani only.

> > kulbirbains

> >

>

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dear sirs, Lagan Sarini had been prepared by respected pundit ji on the basis of 'madras time'. it was never used for preparation of horoscopes or tewas.it was used only for drusti of tewa whenever the predicions did not match the kundli. U must appreciate its importance keeping in view the times when it was prepared and even the panchangs at that time were not that accurate. If u shall compare it as par Madras time;may be u find it not to be that incorrect. Infact pundit ji used to say that while coming to him one should come with a good horoscope and the pundit could charge whatever amount he likes for preparing it, it is pundit's right. It is not a part of LK; but respected pundit ji had it prepared in the form of a booklet himself-- i do have one handed over to me by respected pundit ji. sincerely, kiranjeet

Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Autos.

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Dear Kiranjit ji,

 

I had examined that possibility also. I also knew that the Sarini

which Pandit ji used is said to be based on Madras time. But when I

examined assuming the birth at Madras, it was found inaccurate even then.

 

Since you have the original sarini, the test is simple.:

 

Select any date from the Sarini, change the value of Lahiri ayanansh

to 23 degrees [ less 58' : 2 " than the current 2007 ayanansh ] ,

assume the birth at Madras [ 80E15 ; 13N4 ] and put the time of

birth as the beginning of the Lagna. See if you get the same lagna

in the first degree of that sign.

 

If you get the lagna a few degrees either side, keep changing the

time of birth till you get it in the first degree of that sign. When

you get it in the first degree you know that is the time for that

Lagna to rise.

 

Just for information, at Madras the Makar rises at 6:39 am on

January 14th with ayanansha 23 degrees. The sarini shows that Makar

rises at 6:55 am. The difference is for all to see. In astrology 16

minutes mean a lot.

 

Sincerely,

 

Bhooshan Priya

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, kiranjit kumar

<kapatjal wrote:

>

> dear sirs,

> Lagan Sarini had been prepared by respected pundit ji on the

basis of 'madras time'.

> it was never used for preparation of horoscopes or tewas.it was

used only for drusti of tewa whenever the predicions did not match

the kundli.

> U must appreciate its importance keeping in view the times when

it was prepared and even the panchangs at that time were not that

accurate.

> If u shall compare it as par Madras time;may be u find it not to

be that incorrect.

> Infact pundit ji used to say that while coming to him one should

come with a good horoscope and the pundit could charge whatever

amount he likes for preparing it, it is pundit's right.

> It is not a part of LK; but respected pundit ji had it prepared

in the form of a booklet himself-- i do have one handed over to me

by respected pundit ji.

> sincerely,

> kiranjeet

>

>

>

> Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with

Autos.

>

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Guruji

 

aapne apne wyasat samay se time nikal kar is mude ko

samajhaya. aapka bahut bahut shukriya. aise controversial topic par

koi authority bole tabhi baat maiyne rakhti hai.

 

aabhari

 

kulbir bains

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, " "

< wrote:

>

> Dear Kulbir ji,

>

> The Lagna Sarini document that you have mentioned is not only

> inaccurate it is useless also. When I say `inaccurate' and

`useless'

> I say with full responsibility.

>

> Lal Kitab might claim to have done away with Rasi and Nakshatra,

but

> it cannot do away with Lagna. Ascendant is the keystone for all

> systems of astrology, including the Lal Kitab. The Lagna or

> ascendant has to be very accurate and precise for all arithmetical

> calculations needed in astrology. If the ascendant is not accurate

> the subsequent divisions [ varga ] like hora, dreshkran ,

> dwadashansh etc up to shashthiansh [ 1/60th of a sign ] will be

> inaccurate. Therefore the Lagna has to be sookshm [ precise ] and

> not sthool [ approximation]. I know that the Lal Kitab doesn't

need

> the accuracy of the order I am talking about, nevertheless it can

> not be ignored if we are evaluating an astrology tool. A Sarini is

a

> tool used in astrology and therefore has to be evaluated on the

> standards set for it.

>

> A few years ago in Delhi an associate of Pt. Rupchand ji showed me

> the Lagna sarini used by Lal Kitab practitioners. I took that

> opportunity to study and evaluate it. It is a very tedious task

> because it involves reverse engineering.

>

> I found the following drawbacks in that Lagna Sarini :

>

> [ 1 ] The Lagna sarini is drawn at Ayanansh 23degrees. The current

[

> 2007 ] Lahiri ayanansha is at 23deg 58min 2sec. Therefore any

Lagna

> worked out through this Sarini will be off by 58 min and 2sec [

here

> the word min and sec mean the minute and seconds of a degree and

not

> time]

>

> [ 2 ] The Sarini is drawn for the Longitude 82E0 and Latitude

26N0.

> This place will be near Allahabad Therefore the Ascendant degrees

> shown by this Sarini will be for a birth near Allahabad. Using

this

> Sarini for any birth in Punjab, or for that matter any where else

in

> India, will be criminal in astrological terms.

>

> Before I move on to point out other mistakes in the Sarini I would

> request any one to find out for himself as to what I have said is

> true or not.

>

> Whenever we have to find out the co-ordinates of any Lagna Sarini,

> the most appropriate parameter to start from is a Surya sankranti

> day. There are 12 sankrantis in a year. A sankranti is a day when

> the Sun moves to the next Rasi [ zodiac sign] . These sankrantis

of

> the Sun fall on the same date every year.

>

> As an example let's take up the Makar Sankranti day. It falls on

> January 14th every year. The astrology dictum is `the sun will

rise

> in the first degree of the sign on that day'. Therefore the

> Ascendant at the time of the sunrise on the 14th January will be

> within the first degree of Makar [ Capricorn]

>

> The time of Capricorn rising on the 14th of January shown in the

> Lagna sarini under discussion is 6:55am and lasts till 8:37am

>

> Now take up any kundali software, change the ayanansh to 23deg [

ie

> 58'-2 " less than current Lahiri ayanansh ] feed the data : birth

at

> 6:55am at 82E0 ; 26N0 and see for your self that the ascendant

will

> be 0cap31 ; this value is within the first degree of Capricorn.

>

> This will prove my contentions that the Sarini is drawn:

> ( i )at 23deg ayanansha which is 58':2 " less than what is today

> ( ii ) for longitude 82E0 and Latitude 26N0 [hence not applicable

> for the rest of the country]

>

> Now coming to other misprints amounting to mistakes in the lagna

> sarini under discussion:

>

> [ 1 ] Add up the duration of all the 12 Lagna for any day. The

total

> doesn't come to 24 hours. Now who will believe that the earth

> revolved one complete circle on its axis in less than 24 hours.

The

> total of all the 12 Lagna duration has to be 24 hours, no less no

> more.

>

> [ 2 ] From January till the end of December the time of rising of

> every lagna keeps reducing by 4 minutes every day i.e. every lagna

> rises 4 minutes before its previous day rising time.

> In the sarini have a look at the rising time of lagna on the

January

> 13th and January 14th. The difference printed is just one minute.

> This mistake is carried on all along. No body will believe that

the

> Lagna which rises 4 minutes early every next day, will rise only

one

> minute early on that day.

>

> These movements are astronomically controlled; they are not

> subjective. These are universal truths.

>

> Summarizing, I find the Sarini of no use whatsoever. Yes for some

> people it might have a sentimental value but it has no

astrological

> value. In an academic scrutiny sentiments do not count, the

findings

> are based on objective parameters.

>

> If some one turns up and says that the Lal Kitab doesn't need the

> kind of precision I have talked about, in that case they need not

> depend on the Sarini under discussion. Every Panchang published

> carries a sarini based on the place it is published from. They can

> use that sarini for sthool [ approximate ] Lagna , because the

Lagna

> is going to be the same for almost two hours for the major part of

> India.

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Bhooshan Priya

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

, " kulbirbains "

> <kulbirbains@> wrote:

> >

> > Respected moderators and members;

> > 1.What exactly is this lagan sarani that people say is the

> exclusive

> > method to be applied to foreign births ? is it a published ( or

> > unpublished) part of lalkitab?

> > 2.It is writtten at a page in lalkitab that prepare a kundali by

> > using panchang published by Pt. devi dayal of lahore. is it

> binding

> > that all kundali's should be prepared by using that pachang

only ?

> > 3. when modern softwares give minutest details upto seconds

level

> is

> > it appropriate to stick to that panchang and that lagan sarani?

> > 4. it may have been useful at that time about 50 years ago but

are

> > we bound by it.

> > i have several instances to quote where lalkitab practitioner's

> have

> > advised people with foreign birth to stick to that sarani.

> > while comparing the one prepared by lagn sarani and modern

> > softwares. i personally found that the one prepared by modern

> > softwares appers much convincing on the basis of tewe ki darusti

> > method.

> >

> > this question needs to be addressed as it is a matter of public

> > interest because certain people are showing it's copy and tring

to

> > create a monopoly by raising the hype that foreign birth kundali

> can

> > be analysed exclusively by using this lagn sarani only.

> > kulbirbains

> >

>

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This is great Bhooshan Ji- Even from a vedic approach this method has been

proven fallible. I appreciate the effort with which you have shown your logical

and umemotional methodology.

 

Why are so many senior members of the forum mum on this topic? Some of you have

claimed you have even used this approach ... Come forward and share your

successes with it ...

 

I have submitted 3 postings in both forums [ Lal Kitab and astrostudent ] all of

which have not been posted because of the censorship on truth and

straightforwardness that apparently the Forum moderators are married to.

 

 

 

Best Regards,

Iqbal

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sent via Blackberry

 

 

" " <

 

Thu, 04 Oct 2007 15:27:38

 

Lal Kitab Discussion Group Re: Lagn sarani : an inaCcurate document

 

 

Dear Kiranjit ji,

 

I had examined that possibility also. I also knew that the Sarini

which Pandit ji used is said to be based on Madras time. But when I

examined assuming the birth at Madras, it was found inaccurate even then.

 

Since you have the original sarini, the test is simple.:

 

Select any date from the Sarini, change the value of Lahiri ayanansh

to 23 degrees [ less 58' : 2 " than the current 2007 ayanansh ] ,

assume the birth at Madras [ 80E15 ; 13N4 ] and put the time of

birth as the beginning of the Lagna. See if you get the same lagna

in the first degree of that sign.

 

If you get the lagna a few degrees either side, keep changing the

time of birth till you get it in the first degree of that sign. When

you get it in the first degree you know that is the time for that

Lagna to rise.

 

Just for information, at Madras the Makar rises at 6:39 am on

January 14th with ayanansha 23 degrees. The sarini shows that Makar

rises at 6:55 am. The difference is for all to see. In astrology 16

minutes mean a lot.

 

Sincerely,

 

Bhooshan Priya

 

<%40>

@, kiranjit kumar

<kapatjal wrote:

>

> dear sirs,

> Lagan Sarini had been prepared by respected pundit ji on the

basis of 'madras time'.

> it was never used for preparation of horoscopes or tewas.it was

used only for drusti of tewa whenever the predicions did not match

the kundli.

> U must appreciate its importance keeping in view the times when

it was prepared and even the panchangs at that time were not that

accurate.

> If u shall compare it as par Madras time;may be u find it not to

be that incorrect.

> Infact pundit ji used to say that while coming to him one should

come with a good horoscope and the pundit could charge whatever

amount he likes for preparing it, it is pundit's right.

> It is not a part of LK; but respected pundit ji had it prepared

in the form of a booklet himself-- i do have one handed over to me

by respected pundit ji.

> sincerely,

> kiranjeet

>

>

>

> Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with

Autos.

>

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Share on other sites

Respected Bhooshan JI

 

 

I also tried to solve this puzzle of sarani a couple of months

before.But I found that the latitude & longitude were near about

Varanasi = 82E30 25N20. at 23 ayananshas.

 

 

I think this Saarani blongs to the area of Varanasi (U.P.).In my

opinion also, this sarani cant be logical for the abroad borned in

these days. I think all other experts can through some light, having

some authentic & historical key-pages about it.Otherwise its no use

in my opinion.I have a clear concept that--- Chahey chandar ko khada

ghodaa banaa diyaa jaaye, nakshattar bhi bhoola diye jaayain raashi

ko bhi chhod diyaa jaaye.Fir bhi lagan sarani kee baat chalney par

Dharatee(EARTH) ka ghoomnaa kabhi bhi nazar andaaz nahi kiyaa ja

saktaa.Kyonki lagan saarni seedhey seedhey isse sambandh rakhtee hai.

U try these latitude & longitudes also plz for more confirmation.I

will also be satisfied that one is here who can understand this logic.

 

With Regards

 

Pt. Lalkitabee

www.lalkitabee.com

Mb. 9812020001

 

 

 

 

 

, " "

< wrote:

>

> Dear Kulbir ji,

>

> The Lagna Sarini document that you have mentioned is not only

> inaccurate it is useless also. When I say `inaccurate' and

`useless'

> I say with full responsibility.

>

> Lal Kitab might claim to have done away with Rasi and Nakshatra,

but

> it cannot do away with Lagna. Ascendant is the keystone for all

> systems of astrology, including the Lal Kitab. The Lagna or

> ascendant has to be very accurate and precise for all arithmetical

> calculations needed in astrology. If the ascendant is not accurate

> the subsequent divisions [ varga ] like hora, dreshkran ,

> dwadashansh etc up to shashthiansh [ 1/60th of a sign ] will be

> inaccurate. Therefore the Lagna has to be sookshm [ precise ] and

> not sthool [ approximation]. I know that the Lal Kitab doesn't need

> the accuracy of the order I am talking about, nevertheless it can

> not be ignored if we are evaluating an astrology tool. A Sarini is

a

> tool used in astrology and therefore has to be evaluated on the

> standards set for it.

>

> A few years ago in Delhi an associate of Pt. Rupchand ji showed me

> the Lagna sarini used by Lal Kitab practitioners. I took that

> opportunity to study and evaluate it. It is a very tedious task

> because it involves reverse engineering.

>

> I found the following drawbacks in that Lagna Sarini :

>

> [ 1 ] The Lagna sarini is drawn at Ayanansh 23degrees. The current

[

> 2007 ] Lahiri ayanansha is at 23deg 58min 2sec. Therefore any Lagna

> worked out through this Sarini will be off by 58 min and 2sec [

here

> the word min and sec mean the minute and seconds of a degree and

not

> time]

>

> [ 2 ] The Sarini is drawn for the Longitude 82E0 and Latitude 26N0.

> This place will be near Allahabad Therefore the Ascendant degrees

> shown by this Sarini will be for a birth near Allahabad. Using this

> Sarini for any birth in Punjab, or for that matter any where else

in

> India, will be criminal in astrological terms.

>

> Before I move on to point out other mistakes in the Sarini I would

> request any one to find out for himself as to what I have said is

> true or not.

>

> Whenever we have to find out the co-ordinates of any Lagna Sarini,

> the most appropriate parameter to start from is a Surya sankranti

> day. There are 12 sankrantis in a year. A sankranti is a day when

> the Sun moves to the next Rasi [ zodiac sign] . These sankrantis

of

> the Sun fall on the same date every year.

>

> As an example let's take up the Makar Sankranti day. It falls on

> January 14th every year. The astrology dictum is `the sun will rise

> in the first degree of the sign on that day'. Therefore the

> Ascendant at the time of the sunrise on the 14th January will be

> within the first degree of Makar [ Capricorn]

>

> The time of Capricorn rising on the 14th of January shown in the

> Lagna sarini under discussion is 6:55am and lasts till 8:37am

>

> Now take up any kundali software, change the ayanansh to 23deg [ ie

> 58'-2 " less than current Lahiri ayanansh ] feed the data : birth at

> 6:55am at 82E0 ; 26N0 and see for your self that the ascendant

will

> be 0cap31 ; this value is within the first degree of Capricorn.

>

> This will prove my contentions that the Sarini is drawn:

> ( i )at 23deg ayanansha which is 58':2 " less than what is today

> ( ii ) for longitude 82E0 and Latitude 26N0 [hence not applicable

> for the rest of the country]

>

> Now coming to other misprints amounting to mistakes in the lagna

> sarini under discussion:

>

> [ 1 ] Add up the duration of all the 12 Lagna for any day. The

total

> doesn't come to 24 hours. Now who will believe that the earth

> revolved one complete circle on its axis in less than 24 hours. The

> total of all the 12 Lagna duration has to be 24 hours, no less no

> more.

>

> [ 2 ] From January till the end of December the time of rising of

> every lagna keeps reducing by 4 minutes every day i.e. every lagna

> rises 4 minutes before its previous day rising time.

> In the sarini have a look at the rising time of lagna on the

January

> 13th and January 14th. The difference printed is just one minute.

> This mistake is carried on all along. No body will believe that

the

> Lagna which rises 4 minutes early every next day, will rise only

one

> minute early on that day.

>

> These movements are astronomically controlled; they are not

> subjective. These are universal truths.

>

> Summarizing, I find the Sarini of no use whatsoever. Yes for some

> people it might have a sentimental value but it has no astrological

> value. In an academic scrutiny sentiments do not count, the

findings

> are based on objective parameters.

>

> If some one turns up and says that the Lal Kitab doesn't need the

> kind of precision I have talked about, in that case they need not

> depend on the Sarini under discussion. Every Panchang published

> carries a sarini based on the place it is published from. They can

> use that sarini for sthool [ approximate ] Lagna , because the

Lagna

> is going to be the same for almost two hours for the major part of

> India.

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Bhooshan Priya

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

, " kulbirbains "

> <kulbirbains@> wrote:

> >

> > Respected moderators and members;

> > 1.What exactly is this lagan sarani that people say is the

> exclusive

> > method to be applied to foreign births ? is it a published ( or

> > unpublished) part of lalkitab?

> > 2.It is writtten at a page in lalkitab that prepare a kundali by

> > using panchang published by Pt. devi dayal of lahore. is it

> binding

> > that all kundali's should be prepared by using that pachang only ?

> > 3. when modern softwares give minutest details upto seconds level

> is

> > it appropriate to stick to that panchang and that lagan sarani?

> > 4. it may have been useful at that time about 50 years ago but

are

> > we bound by it.

> > i have several instances to quote where lalkitab practitioner's

> have

> > advised people with foreign birth to stick to that sarani.

> > while comparing the one prepared by lagn sarani and modern

> > softwares. i personally found that the one prepared by modern

> > softwares appers much convincing on the basis of tewe ki darusti

> > method.

> >

> > this question needs to be addressed as it is a matter of public

> > interest because certain people are showing it's copy and tring

to

> > create a monopoly by raising the hype that foreign birth kundali

> can

> > be analysed exclusively by using this lagn sarani only.

> > kulbirbains

> >

>

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Respected Lalkitabee ji,

 

Res Kiranjit Kumar ji has already clarified that this Sarini was not

used to cast horoscopes both Indian or those born abroad.

It was used now and then to varify the kundalis which Pandit

Rupchand ji thought were not well drawn.

 

Regards,

 

Varun Trivedi

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, " lalkitabee "

<lalkitabee wrote:

>

> Respected Bhooshan JI

>

>

> I also tried to solve this puzzle of sarani a couple of months

> before.But I found that the latitude & longitude were near about

> Varanasi = 82E30 25N20. at 23 ayananshas.

>

>

> I think this Saarani blongs to the area of Varanasi (U.P.).In my

> opinion also, this sarani cant be logical for the abroad borned in

> these days. I think all other experts can through some light,

having

> some authentic & historical key-pages about it.Otherwise its no use

> in my opinion.I have a clear concept that--- Chahey chandar ko

khada

> ghodaa banaa diyaa jaaye, nakshattar bhi bhoola diye jaayain raashi

> ko bhi chhod diyaa jaaye.Fir bhi lagan sarani kee baat chalney par

> Dharatee(EARTH) ka ghoomnaa kabhi bhi nazar andaaz nahi kiyaa ja

> saktaa.Kyonki lagan saarni seedhey seedhey isse sambandh rakhtee

hai.

> U try these latitude & longitudes also plz for more confirmation.I

> will also be satisfied that one is here who can understand this

logic.

>

> With Regards

>

> Pt. Lalkitabee

> www.lalkitabee.com

> Mb. 9812020001

>

>

>

>

>

> , " "

> <@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Kulbir ji,

> >

> > The Lagna Sarini document that you have mentioned is not only

> > inaccurate it is useless also. When I say `inaccurate' and

> `useless'

> > I say with full responsibility.

> >

> > Lal Kitab might claim to have done away with Rasi and Nakshatra,

> but

> > it cannot do away with Lagna. Ascendant is the keystone for all

> > systems of astrology, including the Lal Kitab. The Lagna or

> > ascendant has to be very accurate and precise for all

arithmetical

> > calculations needed in astrology. If the ascendant is not

accurate

> > the subsequent divisions [ varga ] like hora, dreshkran ,

> > dwadashansh etc up to shashthiansh [ 1/60th of a sign ] will be

> > inaccurate. Therefore the Lagna has to be sookshm [ precise ] and

> > not sthool [ approximation]. I know that the Lal Kitab doesn't

need

> > the accuracy of the order I am talking about, nevertheless it can

> > not be ignored if we are evaluating an astrology tool. A Sarini

is

> a

> > tool used in astrology and therefore has to be evaluated on the

> > standards set for it.

> >

> > A few years ago in Delhi an associate of Pt. Rupchand ji showed

me

> > the Lagna sarini used by Lal Kitab practitioners. I took that

> > opportunity to study and evaluate it. It is a very tedious task

> > because it involves reverse engineering.

> >

> > I found the following drawbacks in that Lagna Sarini :

> >

> > [ 1 ] The Lagna sarini is drawn at Ayanansh 23degrees. The

current

> [

> > 2007 ] Lahiri ayanansha is at 23deg 58min 2sec. Therefore any

Lagna

> > worked out through this Sarini will be off by 58 min and 2sec [

> here

> > the word min and sec mean the minute and seconds of a degree and

> not

> > time]

> >

> > [ 2 ] The Sarini is drawn for the Longitude 82E0 and Latitude

26N0.

> > This place will be near Allahabad Therefore the Ascendant

degrees

> > shown by this Sarini will be for a birth near Allahabad. Using

this

> > Sarini for any birth in Punjab, or for that matter any where else

> in

> > India, will be criminal in astrological terms.

> >

> > Before I move on to point out other mistakes in the Sarini I

would

> > request any one to find out for himself as to what I have said is

> > true or not.

> >

> > Whenever we have to find out the co-ordinates of any Lagna

Sarini,

> > the most appropriate parameter to start from is a Surya sankranti

> > day. There are 12 sankrantis in a year. A sankranti is a day when

> > the Sun moves to the next Rasi [ zodiac sign] . These sankrantis

> of

> > the Sun fall on the same date every year.

> >

> > As an example let's take up the Makar Sankranti day. It falls on

> > January 14th every year. The astrology dictum is `the sun will

rise

> > in the first degree of the sign on that day'. Therefore the

> > Ascendant at the time of the sunrise on the 14th January will be

> > within the first degree of Makar [ Capricorn]

> >

> > The time of Capricorn rising on the 14th of January shown in the

> > Lagna sarini under discussion is 6:55am and lasts till 8:37am

> >

> > Now take up any kundali software, change the ayanansh to 23deg [

ie

> > 58'-2 " less than current Lahiri ayanansh ] feed the data : birth

at

> > 6:55am at 82E0 ; 26N0 and see for your self that the ascendant

> will

> > be 0cap31 ; this value is within the first degree of Capricorn.

> >

> > This will prove my contentions that the Sarini is drawn:

> > ( i )at 23deg ayanansha which is 58':2 " less than what is today

> > ( ii ) for longitude 82E0 and Latitude 26N0 [hence not applicable

> > for the rest of the country]

> >

> > Now coming to other misprints amounting to mistakes in the lagna

> > sarini under discussion:

> >

> > [ 1 ] Add up the duration of all the 12 Lagna for any day. The

> total

> > doesn't come to 24 hours. Now who will believe that the earth

> > revolved one complete circle on its axis in less than 24 hours.

The

> > total of all the 12 Lagna duration has to be 24 hours, no less no

> > more.

> >

> > [ 2 ] From January till the end of December the time of rising

of

> > every lagna keeps reducing by 4 minutes every day i.e. every

lagna

> > rises 4 minutes before its previous day rising time.

> > In the sarini have a look at the rising time of lagna on the

> January

> > 13th and January 14th. The difference printed is just one minute.

> > This mistake is carried on all along. No body will believe that

> the

> > Lagna which rises 4 minutes early every next day, will rise only

> one

> > minute early on that day.

> >

> > These movements are astronomically controlled; they are not

> > subjective. These are universal truths.

> >

> > Summarizing, I find the Sarini of no use whatsoever. Yes for

some

> > people it might have a sentimental value but it has no

astrological

> > value. In an academic scrutiny sentiments do not count, the

> findings

> > are based on objective parameters.

> >

> > If some one turns up and says that the Lal Kitab doesn't need the

> > kind of precision I have talked about, in that case they need not

> > depend on the Sarini under discussion. Every Panchang published

> > carries a sarini based on the place it is published from. They

can

> > use that sarini for sthool [ approximate ] Lagna , because the

> Lagna

> > is going to be the same for almost two hours for the major part

of

> > India.

> >

> > Sincerely,

> >

> > Bhooshan Priya

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , " kulbirbains "

> > <kulbirbains@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Respected moderators and members;

> > > 1.What exactly is this lagan sarani that people say is the

> > exclusive

> > > method to be applied to foreign births ? is it a published ( or

> > > unpublished) part of lalkitab?

> > > 2.It is writtten at a page in lalkitab that prepare a kundali

by

> > > using panchang published by Pt. devi dayal of lahore. is it

> > binding

> > > that all kundali's should be prepared by using that pachang

only ?

> > > 3. when modern softwares give minutest details upto seconds

level

> > is

> > > it appropriate to stick to that panchang and that lagan sarani?

> > > 4. it may have been useful at that time about 50 years ago but

> are

> > > we bound by it.

> > > i have several instances to quote where lalkitab practitioner's

> > have

> > > advised people with foreign birth to stick to that sarani.

> > > while comparing the one prepared by lagn sarani and modern

> > > softwares. i personally found that the one prepared by modern

> > > softwares appers much convincing on the basis of tewe ki

darusti

> > > method.

> > >

> > > this question needs to be addressed as it is a matter of public

> > > interest because certain people are showing it's copy and tring

> to

> > > create a monopoly by raising the hype that foreign birth

kundali

> > can

> > > be analysed exclusively by using this lagn sarani only.

> > > kulbirbains

> > >

> >

>

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