Lal Kitab Discussion Group Shani 5th & almonds upaya : Shri Yograj ji

[Guest guest]

Respected Varun Ji,

With due apologies in the first place being a layman for Lal kitab, I would like to seek more clarifications on your response below -

 

1. If Shani (almonds) have moved from 5th house to any other place, what exactly would be the consequenses of this act? Please share some observable examples in order to confirm if such environment is building up in Jatak's life.

2. If consider the otherway round (Mushtarqa) does this combinition makes sure that both the planets are not fighting (jhagda) with each other? What are the practical implications of this statement in one's life? Will it be warrented to extend this term "Jhagda koi nahi karta ho" to imagine a peaceful family life?

3. Please elaborate on "Mangal bud" a little more here, if time permits.

4. Is word "umra" means life or something else?

5. What might be the benefic effects of Shani if Shani is not moved from its place?

6. When we say Venus+Saturn =Ucch ka ketu, what exactly it implies?

7. What I understood from your explanation about keeping almonds in iron box (here Kulbir ji and you both have assumed that Jatak had used square or rectangular shape box, what if jatak had used cylenderical shape box?) will bring saturn in the dayara of mercury, but what I fail to understand is that in both the conditions (keeping almonds in yellow thaili or keeping almonds in Iron box) situation remained almost same. Rather i would say situation for Jatak were same even before doing the upaya.

8. Last but not the least, I am honestly unable to understand this quantity issue of almonds. Without quoting the names of people here I would like to point out that different people have different perspective on the number of almonds to be taken to temple and brought back. Only one similarity amongst all remains that, they all say to bring half of the almonds back. The number vary from 10, 50, 86 etc. Please enlighten me on this issue also.

9. One point here to clarify to Kulbir Bhai is that I didnt take the word "blessed" for granted and of course I am aware that blessed almonds are not supposed to be eaten by anyone. Looking from the practical perspective (again a lay man thought) is it not good to keep these almonds in a tight lid container to be on the safer side? Sometimes kids explore new things in home and like to experiment too (that might go up to breaking those almonds by hammer!!!)

 

My sincere apologies again to eat up your valuable time

Warm regards

Dharmender

 

 

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varun_trvd

Tuesday, October 02, 2007 2:32 AM

Lal Kitab Discussion Group Re: Shani 5th & almonds upaya : Shri Yograj ji

 

 

Aadarneeya Yograj ji,My comments on what you have said in the same order :a) you have said that placing the almonds in the East will `create a surya aur shani ka Takrav scenario' . This is not true.The word Takarav is used as a defining astrological term only when a planet is placed in a 6-8 position known as shadashtak position.In the eventuality of keeping the almonds in the east it will, at the most, be termed as Shani and Surya `mushtarqa' for which the book says " ravi shani dono ikaththe baithe, jhagara koi nahi karta ho" [ page 813, ed 52]Therefore keeping the almonds in the east aligned with the house where the Shani had belonged to will be perfectly justified.b) You have further said that ` Saturn in the 5th house becomes a bachche khane wala sanp'. Saturn per se by itself does not become a bachche khane wala sanp unless there is a mangal bud [ page 608 ,ed 52, footnote 1]The book goes further to say on page 608,ed 52 footnote 2 , ` aulad ki tadad aur umra par to beshaq manda na hoga ….'c) You have raised the question as to why the almonds , brought from the temple, be kept in the same place where the Saturn is placed in the Natal chart?The answer is simple. Had Pt.Rupchand ji wanted to shift Saturn from the 5th any where else he could have suggested other upaya like immersing in the river or burying, or establishing the almonds in any of the house the almonds could possibly be moved [ Kulbir bhai has already pointed out this]. He did not suggest shifting the Saturn because it might deprive the native of its benefic effects. At the same time Pandit ji wanted to make sure that the Saturn doesn't play any mischief either.Therefore Pandit ji chose to make the Saturn swear in the presence of God not to play mischief, " shanishchar ne burai na karne ki ab qasam khali gini jayegi" [page 611, ed 52 ]Which Saturn he makes to swear? The Saturn placed in the 5th.Therefore where should the Saturn go after it has sworn in the presence of God? The place it had originally belonged to. And where did it belong to originally? The 5th house. Then it is perfectly justified that the Saturn [almonds] brought back from the temple after it has taken an oath to behave be placed where it had belonged. By shifting the Saturn anywhere else would deprive the native of its benefic results if any. Incidentally Saturn in the 5th house has been termed as `dharma devta' if the 11th is unoccupied.d) Now coming to your point of venus coming into play if a cloth is used. Venus + Saturn form exalted [ uchcha ] Ketu. An exalted Ketu in the 5th house is always beneficial.e) Coming to your contention that by using an iron container or an earthen pot to keep the almonds in you have said " I think the remedy of budh recommended for shni 5 is also somewhere present in this modus operandi".What Pandit ji had recommended when he suggested that the budh ka upaya madadgar hoga meant that the mercury a masnuyee component of the Saturn had to be set right; budh ko shubh kar liya jaye. It is this masnuyee component of the Saturn which is causing the problem in the 5th [Jupiter's pucca house]. By keeping the almonds in any container resembling mercury you are bringing the Saturn back into the `dayara' of the mercury and hence strengthening the same masnuyee component which has caused all the problem in the first place.. Where as the instruction of Pandit ji in effect means to liberate the Saturn from the clutches of the `dayara' of the masnuyee mercury by either appeasing it or by making it a benefic. Therefore the almonds [ Saturn ] after they have sworn in the presence of God should under no circumstances be brought back into the fold of mercury again. Any such action will activate the masnuyee component [ mercury ] and there will be no respite from the problem. The problem might get aggravated further.Please point out if I have left any point raised by you unexplained.With regards,Varun Trivedi , "Yograj Prabhakar" <yr_prabhakar wrote:>> Dear Varun jee and Kulbir jee> > > The question of whether the Badam should be kept in Iron Dibba or Yellow> cloth comes later, the main question here is why Saturn in 5th house> becomes a "Bachhey Khaney Wala Saanp?" In my opinion, since the 5th> house (Eastern Direction) belongs to Sun, presence of Shani in 5th house> somehow creates a Surya aur Shani ka Takraav scenario. This very Takraav> creates problem for Shukkar (Suraj Shani ke Takraav se Shukkar Maara> Jayega). Ketu (Son) is Shukkar Ka Phal; by harming Ketu Shani becomes a> Bachhey Khaney Wala Saanp in this house. Moreover, since Shani too is a> sufferer in the hands of Sun, he transfers the effects on to Ketu and> Ketu indirectly becomes a Balee Ka Bakraa.> > > Now the question of how to keep these blessed Badams, and what can be> the best option since nothing specific in this regard has been said in> the Lal Kitab. We are all agreed that by binging back Badams from a> temple "changes" their nature, I mean by doing this we believe that a> divine blessing is present in the Badams or they becomes blessed - seems> very logical. Now what is the rationale behind keeping them in the same> place (Eastern direction i.e. direction of the 5th house)? Shani maharaj> is aleady present there, so why one should "eastablish" it in the same> place ehere is it considered as malefic, only because these are believed> to be blessed? If so, how these blessed can become unblessed on other> place? Actually, this aspect of directions is a new dimension added to> the whole case, so a honest and detailed discussion on this matter> should be done.> > > > > Regarding keeping it in Yellow or White cloth, aren't we forgetting that> Shukkar is also involved in cloths? What would be the consequences of> involving Shukkar with Shani in the house of Sun (house no.5)? We must> think about it.> > > > In my humble opinion, keeping these blessed Badams in an iron Dibba> (Shani Budh) or in the earthen pot (medium size kooja) in the dark> corner seems very logical. Secrecy and concealness is the nature of> Shani, by doing this we are not only proving this to Shani but also> disalllowing a snake to stroll around openly in our backyard. We are> using Budh (empty space in the iron Dibba or earthen pot) to give refuge> to this dangerous snake so that he can sit comfortably there and could> not bite or scare the innocent kids playing around. I think the remedy> of Budh recommended for Shani 5 is also somewhere present in this modus> operandi. I request the learned Gurujans to have a look at this aspect> too.> > Believe me, I have a solid reason of advocating this method, because, I> myself have kept the blessed Badams in an Iron Dibba in a dark corner of> my house for many many years, and none other than Great Pt. Rup Chand> Joshi jee recommended it way back in the year 1978.> > > > Respectfully> > Yograj Prabhakar> > > > Affluent> > > > , "varun_trvd"> <varun_trvd@> wrote:> >> > Respected Sharma ji,> >> > In this group we take a very dispassionate view on topics and try to> > understand the logic behind them. We believe our small cotribution> > to the knowledge of Lal Kitab will go a long way to understand and> > implement the concepts and the principles of Lal Kitab> >> > Our effort is to develop a scientific temper towards the Lal Kitab> > and to bring it out of the mysterious world of myths and legends.> >> > It is so encouraging to find people like Lalkitabee ji and Kulbir> > bhai participating in the discussion.> >> > Soon the concept of scientific enquiry into Lal Kitab would snowball> > into some thing big and wonderful.> >> > With regards,> >> > Varun Trivedi> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > , "Dharmender Sharma"> > dksrenu@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Kulbir Ji and Varun Ji,> > > I believe that Lalkitab knowledge is a social asset for all of us> > now. Remaining firm on this belief, it would be a right step to> > discuss this issue at length, including the logical approach people> > and MAD club scholars. More we are objective here and agree upon> > logical approach proved with the experiments and results, more it> > would help us to understand and practice lal kitab approach.> > > So I would like to humbly request all scholars of Lal Kitab to> > share their thoughts on this.> > > Sincerely,> > > Dharmender Sharma> > >> > > -> > > kulbir bains> > > > > > Sunday, September 30, 2007 11:07 PM> > > Lal Kitab Discussion Group Re: Shani 5th & budh ka upaya> > >> > >> > >> > > Varun ji, these type of answers will go a long way in> > dispellling the darkness of ignorance associated with lalkitab> > upayas. don't want to take names but i have myself seen some people> > who considers themselves ACHARYAs and URDU EXPERT GURUS recommending> > this iron box + darkness upaya.> > > sahi mayno mein is group ki wajah se ab kahin jakar lalkitab par> > asli kaam shuru hua hai. otherwise there are many MAD( mutual> > admiration) clubs.> > >> > kulbir bains> > >> > > varun_trvd varun_trvd@ wrote:> > > Respected Sharma ji,> > >> > > I am afraid keeping the almonds brought back from the temple,> > in an> > > iron container in a dark corner is not the correct procedure.> > >> > > The upaya is for the Saturn in the 5th house. Half of the> > almonds> > > which are considered to have been blessed and which are> > brought back> > > from the temple also belong to the 5th house. Therefore these> > > almonds have to be kept in the east [ 5th house ]and not in a> > dark> > > corner of the house.> > >> > > These blessed almonds should be kept tied in a yellow cloth> > because> > > the 5th house is a pucca ghar of the jupiter. These almonds> > can also> > > be kept in a white silk cloth represnting Moon [sun + Jupiter> > form> > > Moon]; sun is the owner of the 5th and the 5th is a pucca ghar> > of> > > jupiter.> > >> > > Keeping these almonds back into an iron container in a dark> > place> > > would amount to unbless these almonds by handing them over to> > the> > > Saturn all over again.> > >> > > With Regards,> > >> > > Varun Trivedi> > >> > > , "Dharmender> > Sharma"> > > <dksrenu@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Respected Gurujans,> > > > I am keen on knowing more about upayas related to Saturn> > malefic> > > in the given situation. My humble question regarding the upaya> > is -> > > why half of the almonds carried back home needs to be kept in> > a> > > tight container and in a dark place? What planet iron> > container> > > represents and what aspect is covered by the dark corner of> > the> > > house?> > > >> > > > Please enlighten me.> > > > Regards> > > > Dharmender Sharma> > > >> > > > -> > > > varun_trvd> > > > > > > > Saturday, September 29, 2007 8:55 PM> > > > Lal Kitab Discussion Group Re: Shani 5th & budh ka> > upaya> > > >> > > >> > > > Respected Miglani ji,> > > >> > > > I have checked both the 1941 and 42 editions and what you> > have> > > said> > > > is right. You are also right for what is said in the 1952> > book.> > > >> > > > In my opinion the logic for the budh ka upaya mentioned in> > both> > > the> > > > earlier editions could be this:> > > >> > > > Saturn malefic consists of Mars + Mercury. The Mars> > constituent> > > of> > > > this combination can not do any harm in the 5th house which> > is> > > owned> > > > by the Sun and Jupiter [associated as the pucca ghar owner].> > > Both> > > > the Sun and the Jupiter are friends of Mars. Therefore the> > only> > > > possibility of any malefic out come of Saturn in the 5th> > could> > > be> > > > due to the Mercury component of Saturn. That is why Pandit> > > Rupchand> > > > ji advised the `budh ka upaya sahayak hoga'.> > > >> > > > The 5th house may not apparently be associated with mercury> > as> > > such> > > > but in this case the upaya is suggested not because of the> > house> > > but> > > > because of the constituent component of the planet.> > > >> > > > Regarding the second part of your query, in my opinion> > > Pt.Rupchand> > > > ji did not drop the budh ka upaya instead he suggested some> > > > alternative upaya also in his 1952 book. I believe that the> > budh> > > ka> > > > upaya would still be very relevant because it is very> > logically> > > > devised. All the five Lal Kitab books form a continuous> > series> > > and> > > > should not be taken as five different books.> > > >> > > > However I would agree that Pt.Rupchand ji in his 1952> > edition> > > > devised the almonds upaya for the Saturn as a whole instead> > of> > > for a> > > > part of it. This new devised upaya could have been based on> > the> > > > feedback he might have received from his followers.> > > >> > > > I therefore feel that both the upaya can be done. If you> > feel> > > that> > > > there are any indications of only mercury being malefic in> > that> > > case> > > > there is no harm if budh ka upaya alone is done.> > > >> > > > With regards,> > > >> > > > Varun Trivedi> > > >> > > > , "kpmiglani"> > > > <kpmiglani@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Sir,> > > > >> > > > > For Saturn in the 5th house both the Gutka of 1941 and the> > > 1942 ed> > > > > recommend ' budh ka upaya sahayak hoga'. There is no> > mention> > > of> > > > the> > > > > almonds upaya of offering at the temple and bringing back> > half> > > of> > > > > them.> > > > > In the 1952 book for the same shani in the 5th there is no> > > mention> > > > > of 'budh ka upaya' instead the almonds upaya is mentioned,> > not> > > > once> > > > > but three times. There are other upayas also mentioned but> > not> > > the> > > > > budh ka upaya.> > > > > What intrigues me is that the 5th house is in no way> > related> > > to> > > > > mercury and yet the upaya of mercury is suggested. But why> > the> > > > same> > > > > upaya is not suggested in the 1952 edition and a new upaya> > is> > > > > devised.> > > > > Does it mean that Joshi ji realised that the budh ka upaya> > is> > > not> > > > as> > > > > effective as he thought it to be and changed the upaya> > > altogether.> > > > > Or is it true that Joshi ji understood the Lal Kitab> > system> > > better> > > > > during those intervening ten years?> > > > >> > > > > Respectfully,> > > > >> > > > > KP Miglani> > > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Kulbir Bains> > >> > >> > > -----------------------------> > -----------> > > Get the freedom to save as many mails as you wish. Click here to> > know how.> > >> >>