Lal Kitab Discussion Group Shani 5th & budh ka upaya

September 29, 2007

Respected Gurujans,

I am keen on knowing more about upayas related to Saturn malefic in the given situation. My humble question regarding the upaya is - why half of the almonds carried back home needs to be kept in a tight container and in a dark place? What planet iron container represents and what aspect is covered by the dark corner of the house?

Please enlighten me.

Regards

Dharmender Sharma

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varun_trvd

Saturday, September 29, 2007 8:55 PM

Lal Kitab Discussion Group Re: Shani 5th & budh ka upaya

Respected Miglani ji,I have checked both the 1941 and 42 editions and what you have said is right. You are also right for what is said in the 1952 book.In my opinion the logic for the budh ka upaya mentioned in both the earlier editions could be this:Saturn malefic consists of Mars + Mercury. The Mars constituent of this combination can not do any harm in the 5th house which is owned by the Sun and Jupiter [associated as the pucca ghar owner]. Both the Sun and the Jupiter are friends of Mars. Therefore the only possibility of any malefic out come of Saturn in the 5th could be due to the Mercury component of Saturn. That is why Pandit Rupchand ji advised the `budh ka upaya sahayak hoga'. The 5th house may not apparently be associated with mercury as such but in this case the upaya is suggested not because of the house but because of the constituent component of the planet.Regarding the second part of your query, in my opinion Pt.Rupchand ji did not drop the budh ka upaya instead he suggested some alternative upaya also in his 1952 book. I believe that the budh ka upaya would still be very relevant because it is very logically devised. All the five Lal Kitab books form a continuous series and should not be taken as five different books.However I would agree that Pt.Rupchand ji in his 1952 edition devised the almonds upaya for the Saturn as a whole instead of for a part of it. This new devised upaya could have been based on the feedback he might have received from his followers.I therefore feel that both the upaya can be done. If you feel that there are any indications of only mercury being malefic in that case there is no harm if budh ka upaya alone is done.With regards,Varun Trivedi , "kpmiglani" <kpmiglani wrote:>> Sir,> > For Saturn in the 5th house both the Gutka of 1941 and the 1942 ed > recommend ' budh ka upaya sahayak hoga'. There is no mention of the > almonds upaya of offering at the temple and bringing back half of > them.> In the 1952 book for the same shani in the 5th there is no mention > of 'budh ka upaya' instead the almonds upaya is mentioned, not once > but three times. There are other upayas also mentioned but not the > budh ka upaya.> What intrigues me is that the 5th house is in no way related to > mercury and yet the upaya of mercury is suggested. But why the same > upaya is not suggested in the 1952 edition and a new upaya is > devised.> Does it mean that Joshi ji realised that the budh ka upaya is not as > effective as he thought it to be and changed the upaya altogether. > Or is it true that Joshi ji understood the Lal Kitab system better > during those intervening ten years?> > Respectfully,> > KP Miglani>

October 1, 2007

Respected Yograj Ji and learned Gurujans of this group,

The response from aadarneey Prabhakar ji is exactly as per my expectation from this group. Prabhakar ji please accept my warm regards and hats off for your crystal clear understanding and expression of that in same passion.

The response below have tried to elaborate the entire issue covering all possible aspects/facts/practices and divine words. I am really amazed by such a wonderful response.

I was also thinking on the logic of blessed and unblessed. I believe, if we firmly believe in blessings from god, then nothing can make a thing unblessed, no matter where it is kept. Apart from having this belief, I figured out a beautiful logic that is convincing, at least to me.

I am hopeful that this explanation from Prabhakar ji will not only enlighten the new learners like me, but will also help others to revisit the whole concept of Lal Kitab in its totality.

Sincere thanks to all of you again!

Dharmender Sharma

China

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Yograj Prabhakar

Monday, October 01, 2007 5:06 PM

Lal Kitab Discussion Group Re: Shani 5th & budh ka upaya

Dear Varun jee and Kulbir jee

The question of whether the Badam should be kept in Iron Dibba or Yellow cloth comes later, the main question here is why Saturn in 5th house becomes a "Bachhey Khaney Wala Saanp?" In my opinion, since the 5th house (Eastern Direction) belongs to Sun, presence of Shani in 5th house somehow creates a Surya aur Shani ka Takraav scenario. This very Takraav creates problem for Shukkar (Suraj Shani ke Takraav se Shukkar Maara Jayega). Ketu (Son) is Shukkar Ka Phal; by harming Ketu Shani becomes a Bachhey Khaney Wala Saanp in this house. Moreover, since Shani too is a sufferer in the hands of Sun, he transfers the effects on to Ketu and Ketu indirectly becomes a Balee Ka Bakraa.

Now the question of how to keep these blessed Badams, and what can be the best option since nothing specific in this regard has been said in the Lal Kitab. We are all agreed that by binging back Badams from a temple "changes" their nature, I mean by doing this we believe that a divine blessing is present in the Badams or they becomes blessed - seems very logical. Now what is the rationale behind keeping them in the same place (Eastern direction i.e. direction of the 5th house)? Shani maharaj is aleady present there, so why one should "eastablish" it in the same place ehere is it considered as malefic, only because these are believed to be blessed? If so, how these blessed can become unblessed on other place? Actually, this aspect of directions is a new dimension added to the whole case, so a honest and detailed discussion on this matter should be done.

Regarding keeping it in Yellow or White cloth, aren't we forgetting that Shukkar is also involved in cloths? What would be the consequences of involving Shukkar with Shani in the house of Sun (house no.5)? We must think about it.

In my humble opinion, keeping these blessed Badams in an iron Dibba (Shani Budh) or in the earthen pot (medium size kooja) in the dark corner seems very logical. Secrecy and concealness is the nature of Shani, by doing this we are not only proving this to Shani but also disalllowing a snake to stroll around openly in our backyard. We are using Budh (empty space in the iron Dibba or earthen pot) to give refuge to this dangerous snake so that he can sit comfortably there and could not bite or scare the innocent kids playing around. I think the remedy of Budh recommended for Shani 5 is also somewhere present in this modus operandi. I request the learned Gurujans to have a look at this aspect too.

Believe me, I have a solid reason of advocating this method, because, I myself have kept the blessed Badams in an Iron Dibba in a dark corner of my house for many many years, and none other than Great Pt. Rup Chand Joshi jee recommended it way back in the year 1978.

Respectfully

Yograj Prabhakar

Affluent , "varun_trvd" <varun_trvd wrote:>> Respected Sharma ji,> > In this group we take a very dispassionate view on topics and try to > understand the logic behind them. We believe our small cotribution > to the knowledge of Lal Kitab will go a long way to understand and > implement the concepts and the principles of Lal Kitab > > Our effort is to develop a scientific temper towards the Lal Kitab > and to bring it out of the mysterious world of myths and legends.> > It is so encouraging to find people like Lalkitabee ji and Kulbir > bhai participating in the discussion.> > Soon the concept of scientific enquiry into Lal Kitab would snowball > into some thing big and wonderful.> > With regards,> > Varun Trivedi> > > > > > > > > > > > , "Dharmender Sharma" > dksrenu@ wrote:> >> > Dear Kulbir Ji and Varun Ji,> > I believe that Lalkitab knowledge is a social asset for all of us > now. Remaining firm on this belief, it would be a right step to > discuss this issue at length, including the logical approach people > and MAD club scholars. More we are objective here and agree upon > logical approach proved with the experiments and results, more it > would help us to understand and practice lal kitab approach.> > So I would like to humbly request all scholars of Lal Kitab to > share their thoughts on this.> > Sincerely,> > Dharmender Sharma > > > > - > > kulbir bains > > > > Sunday, September 30, 2007 11:07 PM> > Lal Kitab Discussion Group Re: Shani 5th & budh ka upaya> > > > > > > > Varun ji, these type of answers will go a long way in > dispellling the darkness of ignorance associated with lalkitab > upayas. don't want to take names but i have myself seen some people > who considers themselves ACHARYAs and URDU EXPERT GURUS recommending > this iron box + darkness upaya.> > sahi mayno mein is group ki wajah se ab kahin jakar lalkitab par > asli kaam shuru hua hai. otherwise there are many MAD( mutual > admiration) clubs.> > > kulbir bains> > > > varun_trvd varun_trvd@ wrote:> > Respected Sharma ji,> > > > I am afraid keeping the almonds brought back from the temple, > in an > > iron container in a dark corner is not the correct procedure.> > > > The upaya is for the Saturn in the 5th house. Half of the > almonds > > which are considered to have been blessed and which are > brought back > > from the temple also belong to the 5th house. Therefore these > > almonds have to be kept in the east [ 5th house ]and not in a > dark > > corner of the house. > > > > These blessed almonds should be kept tied in a yellow cloth > because > > the 5th house is a pucca ghar of the jupiter. These almonds > can also > > be kept in a white silk cloth represnting Moon [sun + Jupiter > form > > Moon]; sun is the owner of the 5th and the 5th is a pucca ghar > of > > jupiter. > > > > Keeping these almonds back into an iron container in a dark > place > > would amount to unbless these almonds by handing them over to > the > > Saturn all over again.> > > > With Regards,> > > > Varun Trivedi> > > > , "Dharmender > Sharma" > > <dksrenu@> wrote:> > >> > > Respected Gurujans,> > > I am keen on knowing more about upayas related to Saturn > malefic > > in the given situation. My humble question regarding the upaya > is - > > why half of the almonds carried back home needs to be kept in > a > > tight container and in a dark place? What planet iron > container > > represents and what aspect is covered by the dark corner of > the > > house?> > > > > > Please enlighten me.> > > Regards> > > Dharmender Sharma > > > > > > - > > > varun_trvd > > > > > > Saturday, September 29, 2007 8:55 PM> > > Lal Kitab Discussion Group Re: Shani 5th & budh ka > upaya> > > > > > > > > Respected Miglani ji,> > > > > > I have checked both the 1941 and 42 editions and what you > have > > said > > > is right. You are also right for what is said in the 1952 > book.> > > > > > In my opinion the logic for the budh ka upaya mentioned in > both > > the > > > earlier editions could be this:> > > > > > Saturn malefic consists of Mars + Mercury. The Mars > constituent > > of > > > this combination can not do any harm in the 5th house which > is > > owned > > > by the Sun and Jupiter [associated as the pucca ghar owner]. > > Both > > > the Sun and the Jupiter are friends of Mars. Therefore the > only > > > possibility of any malefic out come of Saturn in the 5th > could > > be > > > due to the Mercury component of Saturn. That is why Pandit > > Rupchand > > > ji advised the `budh ka upaya sahayak hoga'. > > > > > > The 5th house may not apparently be associated with mercury > as > > such > > > but in this case the upaya is suggested not because of the > house > > but > > > because of the constituent component of the planet.> > > > > > Regarding the second part of your query, in my opinion > > Pt.Rupchand > > > ji did not drop the budh ka upaya instead he suggested some > > > alternative upaya also in his 1952 book. I believe that the > budh > > ka > > > upaya would still be very relevant because it is very > logically > > > devised. All the five Lal Kitab books form a continuous > series > > and > > > should not be taken as five different books.> > > > > > However I would agree that Pt.Rupchand ji in his 1952 > edition > > > devised the almonds upaya for the Saturn as a whole instead > of > > for a > > > part of it. This new devised upaya could have been based on > the > > > feedback he might have received from his followers.> > > > > > I therefore feel that both the upaya can be done. If you > feel > > that > > > there are any indications of only mercury being malefic in > that > > case > > > there is no harm if budh ka upaya alone is done.> > > > > > With regards,> > > > > > Varun Trivedi> > > > > > , "kpmiglani" > > > <kpmiglani@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Sir,> > > > > > > > For Saturn in the 5th house both the Gutka of 1941 and the > > 1942 ed > > > > recommend ' budh ka upaya sahayak hoga'. There is no > mention > > of > > > the > > > > almonds upaya of offering at the temple and bringing back > half > > of > > > > them.> > > > In the 1952 book for the same shani in the 5th there is no > > mention > > > > of 'budh ka upaya' instead the almonds upaya is mentioned, > not > > > once > > > > but three times. There are other upayas also mentioned but > not > > the > > > > budh ka upaya.> > > > What intrigues me is that the 5th house is in no way > related > > to > > > > mercury and yet the upaya of mercury is suggested. But why > the > > > same > > > > upaya is not suggested in the 1952 edition and a new upaya > is > > > > devised.> > > > Does it mean that Joshi ji realised that the budh ka upaya > is > > not > > > as > > > > effective as he thought it to be and changed the upaya > > altogether. > > > > Or is it true that Joshi ji understood the Lal Kitab > system > > better > > > > during those intervening ten years?> > > > > > > > Respectfully,> > > > > > > > KP Miglani> > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Kulbir Bains> > > > > > -> -----------> > Get the freedom to save as many mails as you wish. Click here to > know how.> >>