Guest guest Posted September 29, 2007 Report Share Posted September 29, 2007 Sir, For Saturn in the 5th house both the Gutka of 1941 and the 1942 ed recommend ' budh ka upaya sahayak hoga'. There is no mention of the almonds upaya of offering at the temple and bringing back half of them. In the 1952 book for the same shani in the 5th there is no mention of 'budh ka upaya' instead the almonds upaya is mentioned, not once but three times. There are other upayas also mentioned but not the budh ka upaya. What intrigues me is that the 5th house is in no way related to mercury and yet the upaya of mercury is suggested. But why the same upaya is not suggested in the 1952 edition and a new upaya is devised. Does it mean that Joshi ji realised that the budh ka upaya is not as effective as he thought it to be and changed the upaya altogether. Or is it true that Joshi ji understood the Lal Kitab system better during those intervening ten years? Respectfully, KP Miglani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2007 Report Share Posted September 29, 2007 Respected Miglani ji, I have checked both the 1941 and 42 editions and what you have said is right. You are also right for what is said in the 1952 book. In my opinion the logic for the budh ka upaya mentioned in both the earlier editions could be this: Saturn malefic consists of Mars + Mercury. The Mars constituent of this combination can not do any harm in the 5th house which is owned by the Sun and Jupiter [associated as the pucca ghar owner]. Both the Sun and the Jupiter are friends of Mars. Therefore the only possibility of any malefic out come of Saturn in the 5th could be due to the Mercury component of Saturn. That is why Pandit Rupchand ji advised the `budh ka upaya sahayak hoga'. The 5th house may not apparently be associated with mercury as such but in this case the upaya is suggested not because of the house but because of the constituent component of the planet. Regarding the second part of your query, in my opinion Pt.Rupchand ji did not drop the budh ka upaya instead he suggested some alternative upaya also in his 1952 book. I believe that the budh ka upaya would still be very relevant because it is very logically devised. All the five Lal Kitab books form a continuous series and should not be taken as five different books. However I would agree that Pt.Rupchand ji in his 1952 edition devised the almonds upaya for the Saturn as a whole instead of for a part of it. This new devised upaya could have been based on the feedback he might have received from his followers. I therefore feel that both the upaya can be done. If you feel that there are any indications of only mercury being malefic in that case there is no harm if budh ka upaya alone is done. With regards, Varun Trivedi , " kpmiglani " <kpmiglani wrote: > > Sir, > > For Saturn in the 5th house both the Gutka of 1941 and the 1942 ed > recommend ' budh ka upaya sahayak hoga'. There is no mention of the > almonds upaya of offering at the temple and bringing back half of > them. > In the 1952 book for the same shani in the 5th there is no mention > of 'budh ka upaya' instead the almonds upaya is mentioned, not once > but three times. There are other upayas also mentioned but not the > budh ka upaya. > What intrigues me is that the 5th house is in no way related to > mercury and yet the upaya of mercury is suggested. But why the same > upaya is not suggested in the 1952 edition and a new upaya is > devised. > Does it mean that Joshi ji realised that the budh ka upaya is not as > effective as he thought it to be and changed the upaya altogether. > Or is it true that Joshi ji understood the Lal Kitab system better > during those intervening ten years? > > Respectfully, > > KP Miglani > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2007 Report Share Posted September 29, 2007 Respected Varun ji, An excellent explanation. Thank you sir. Respectfully, KP Miglani , " varun_trvd " <varun_trvd wrote: > > Respected Miglani ji, > > I have checked both the 1941 and 42 editions and what you have said > is right. You are also right for what is said in the 1952 book. > > In my opinion the logic for the budh ka upaya mentioned in both the > earlier editions could be this: > > Saturn malefic consists of Mars + Mercury. The Mars constituent of > this combination can not do any harm in the 5th house which is owned > by the Sun and Jupiter [associated as the pucca ghar owner]. Both > the Sun and the Jupiter are friends of Mars. Therefore the only > possibility of any malefic out come of Saturn in the 5th could be > due to the Mercury component of Saturn. That is why Pandit Rupchand > ji advised the `budh ka upaya sahayak hoga'. > > The 5th house may not apparently be associated with mercury as such > but in this case the upaya is suggested not because of the house but > because of the constituent component of the planet. > > Regarding the second part of your query, in my opinion Pt.Rupchand > ji did not drop the budh ka upaya instead he suggested some > alternative upaya also in his 1952 book. I believe that the budh ka > upaya would still be very relevant because it is very logically > devised. All the five Lal Kitab books form a continuous series and > should not be taken as five different books. > > However I would agree that Pt.Rupchand ji in his 1952 edition > devised the almonds upaya for the Saturn as a whole instead of for a > part of it. This new devised upaya could have been based on the > feedback he might have received from his followers. > > I therefore feel that both the upaya can be done. If you feel that > there are any indications of only mercury being malefic in that case > there is no harm if budh ka upaya alone is done. > > With regards, > > Varun Trivedi > > > > > , " kpmiglani " > <kpmiglani@> wrote: > > > > Sir, > > > > For Saturn in the 5th house both the Gutka of 1941 and the 1942 ed > > recommend ' budh ka upaya sahayak hoga'. There is no mention of > the > > almonds upaya of offering at the temple and bringing back half of > > them. > > In the 1952 book for the same shani in the 5th there is no mention > > of 'budh ka upaya' instead the almonds upaya is mentioned, not > once > > but three times. There are other upayas also mentioned but not the > > budh ka upaya. > > What intrigues me is that the 5th house is in no way related to > > mercury and yet the upaya of mercury is suggested. But why the > same > > upaya is not suggested in the 1952 edition and a new upaya is > > devised. > > Does it mean that Joshi ji realised that the budh ka upaya is not > as > > effective as he thought it to be and changed the upaya altogether. > > Or is it true that Joshi ji understood the Lal Kitab system better > > during those intervening ten years? > > > > Respectfully, > > > > KP Miglani > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2007 Report Share Posted September 29, 2007 Respected Sharma ji, I am afraid keeping the almonds brought back from the temple, in an iron container in a dark corner is not the correct procedure. The upaya is for the Saturn in the 5th house. Half of the almonds which are considered to have been blessed and which are brought back from the temple also belong to the 5th house. Therefore these almonds have to be kept in the east [ 5th house ]and not in a dark corner of the house. These blessed almonds should be kept tied in a yellow cloth because the 5th house is a pucca ghar of the jupiter. These almonds can also be kept in a white silk cloth represnting Moon [sun + Jupiter form Moon]; sun is the owner of the 5th and the 5th is a pucca ghar of jupiter. Keeping these almonds back into an iron container in a dark place would amount to unbless these almonds by handing them over to the Saturn all over again. With Regards, Varun Trivedi , " Dharmender Sharma " <dksrenu wrote: > > Respected Gurujans, > I am keen on knowing more about upayas related to Saturn malefic in the given situation. My humble question regarding the upaya is - why half of the almonds carried back home needs to be kept in a tight container and in a dark place? What planet iron container represents and what aspect is covered by the dark corner of the house? > > Please enlighten me. > Regards > Dharmender Sharma > > - > varun_trvd > > Saturday, September 29, 2007 8:55 PM > Lal Kitab Discussion Group Re: Shani 5th & budh ka upaya > > > Respected Miglani ji, > > I have checked both the 1941 and 42 editions and what you have said > is right. You are also right for what is said in the 1952 book. > > In my opinion the logic for the budh ka upaya mentioned in both the > earlier editions could be this: > > Saturn malefic consists of Mars + Mercury. The Mars constituent of > this combination can not do any harm in the 5th house which is owned > by the Sun and Jupiter [associated as the pucca ghar owner]. Both > the Sun and the Jupiter are friends of Mars. Therefore the only > possibility of any malefic out come of Saturn in the 5th could be > due to the Mercury component of Saturn. That is why Pandit Rupchand > ji advised the `budh ka upaya sahayak hoga'. > > The 5th house may not apparently be associated with mercury as such > but in this case the upaya is suggested not because of the house but > because of the constituent component of the planet. > > Regarding the second part of your query, in my opinion Pt.Rupchand > ji did not drop the budh ka upaya instead he suggested some > alternative upaya also in his 1952 book. I believe that the budh ka > upaya would still be very relevant because it is very logically > devised. All the five Lal Kitab books form a continuous series and > should not be taken as five different books. > > However I would agree that Pt.Rupchand ji in his 1952 edition > devised the almonds upaya for the Saturn as a whole instead of for a > part of it. This new devised upaya could have been based on the > feedback he might have received from his followers. > > I therefore feel that both the upaya can be done. If you feel that > there are any indications of only mercury being malefic in that case > there is no harm if budh ka upaya alone is done. > > With regards, > > Varun Trivedi > > , " kpmiglani " > <kpmiglani@> wrote: > > > > Sir, > > > > For Saturn in the 5th house both the Gutka of 1941 and the 1942 ed > > recommend ' budh ka upaya sahayak hoga'. There is no mention of > the > > almonds upaya of offering at the temple and bringing back half of > > them. > > In the 1952 book for the same shani in the 5th there is no mention > > of 'budh ka upaya' instead the almonds upaya is mentioned, not > once > > but three times. There are other upayas also mentioned but not the > > budh ka upaya. > > What intrigues me is that the 5th house is in no way related to > > mercury and yet the upaya of mercury is suggested. But why the > same > > upaya is not suggested in the 1952 edition and a new upaya is > > devised. > > Does it mean that Joshi ji realised that the budh ka upaya is not > as > > effective as he thought it to be and changed the upaya altogether. > > Or is it true that Joshi ji understood the Lal Kitab system better > > during those intervening ten years? > > > > Respectfully, > > > > KP Miglani > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2007 Report Share Posted September 30, 2007 Varun ji, these type of answers will go a long way in dispellling the darkness of ignorance associated with lalkitab upayas. don't want to take names but i have myself seen some people who considers themselves ACHARYAs and URDU EXPERT GURUS recommending this iron box + darkness upaya. sahi mayno mein is group ki wajah se ab kahin jakar lalkitab par asli kaam shuru hua hai. otherwise there are many MAD( mutual admiration) clubs. kulbir bainsvarun_trvd <varun_trvd wrote: Respected Sharma ji,I am afraid keeping the almonds brought back from the temple, in an iron container in a dark corner is not the correct procedure.The upaya is for the Saturn in the 5th house. Half of the almonds which are considered to have been blessed and which are brought back from the temple also belong to the 5th house. Therefore these almonds have to be kept in the east [ 5th house ]and not in a dark corner of the house. These blessed almonds should be kept tied in a yellow cloth because the 5th house is a pucca ghar of the jupiter. These almonds can also be kept in a white silk cloth represnting Moon [sun + Jupiter form Moon]; sun is the owner of the 5th and the 5th is a pucca ghar of jupiter. Keeping these almonds back into an iron container in a dark place would amount to unbless these almonds by handing them over to the Saturn all over again.With Regards,Varun Trivedi , "Dharmender Sharma" <dksrenu wrote:>> Respected Gurujans,> I am keen on knowing more about upayas related to Saturn malefic in the given situation. My humble question regarding the upaya is - why half of the almonds carried back home needs to be kept in a tight container and in a dark place? What planet iron container represents and what aspect is covered by the dark corner of the house?> > Please enlighten me.> Regards> Dharmender Sharma > > - > varun_trvd > > Saturday, September 29, 2007 8:55 PM> Lal Kitab Discussion Group Re: Shani 5th & budh ka upaya> > > Respected Miglani ji,> > I have checked both the 1941 and 42 editions and what you have said > is right. You are also right for what is said in the 1952 book.> > In my opinion the logic for the budh ka upaya mentioned in both the > earlier editions could be this:> > Saturn malefic consists of Mars + Mercury. The Mars constituent of > this combination can not do any harm in the 5th house which is owned > by the Sun and Jupiter [associated as the pucca ghar owner]. Both > the Sun and the Jupiter are friends of Mars. Therefore the only > possibility of any malefic out come of Saturn in the 5th could be > due to the Mercury component of Saturn. That is why Pandit Rupchand > ji advised the `budh ka upaya sahayak hoga'. > > The 5th house may not apparently be associated with mercury as such > but in this case the upaya is suggested not because of the house but > because of the constituent component of the planet.> > Regarding the second part of your query, in my opinion Pt.Rupchand > ji did not drop the budh ka upaya instead he suggested some > alternative upaya also in his 1952 book. I believe that the budh ka > upaya would still be very relevant because it is very logically > devised. All the five Lal Kitab books form a continuous series and > should not be taken as five different books.> > However I would agree that Pt.Rupchand ji in his 1952 edition > devised the almonds upaya for the Saturn as a whole instead of for a > part of it. This new devised upaya could have been based on the > feedback he might have received from his followers.> > I therefore feel that both the upaya can be done. If you feel that > there are any indications of only mercury being malefic in that case > there is no harm if budh ka upaya alone is done.> > With regards,> > Varun Trivedi> > , "kpmiglani" > <kpmiglani@> wrote:> >> > Sir,> > > > For Saturn in the 5th house both the Gutka of 1941 and the 1942 ed > > recommend ' budh ka upaya sahayak hoga'. There is no mention of > the > > almonds upaya of offering at the temple and bringing back half of > > them.> > In the 1952 book for the same shani in the 5th there is no mention > > of 'budh ka upaya' instead the almonds upaya is mentioned, not > once > > but three times. There are other upayas also mentioned but not the > > budh ka upaya.> > What intrigues me is that the 5th house is in no way related to > > mercury and yet the upaya of mercury is suggested. But why the > same > > upaya is not suggested in the 1952 edition and a new upaya is > > devised.> > Does it mean that Joshi ji realised that the budh ka upaya is not > as > > effective as he thought it to be and changed the upaya altogether. > > Or is it true that Joshi ji understood the Lal Kitab system better > > during those intervening ten years?> > > > Respectfully,> > > > KP Miglani> >>Kulbir Bains Get the freedom to save as many mails as you wish. Click here to know how. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2007 Report Share Posted September 30, 2007 Dear Kulbir Ji and Varun Ji, I believe that Lalkitab knowledge is a social asset for all of us now. Remaining firm on this belief, it would be a right step to discuss this issue at length, including the logical approach people and MAD club scholars. More we are objective here and agree upon logical approach proved with the experiments and results, more it would help us to understand and practice lal kitab approach. So I would like to humbly request all scholars of Lal Kitab to share their thoughts on this. Sincerely, Dharmender Sharma - kulbir bains Sunday, September 30, 2007 11:07 PM Lal Kitab Discussion Group Re: Shani 5th & budh ka upaya Varun ji, these type of answers will go a long way in dispellling the darkness of ignorance associated with lalkitab upayas. don't want to take names but i have myself seen some people who considers themselves ACHARYAs and URDU EXPERT GURUS recommending this iron box + darkness upaya. sahi mayno mein is group ki wajah se ab kahin jakar lalkitab par asli kaam shuru hua hai. otherwise there are many MAD( mutual admiration) clubs. kulbir bainsvarun_trvd <varun_trvd (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: Respected Sharma ji,I am afraid keeping the almonds brought back from the temple, in an iron container in a dark corner is not the correct procedure.The upaya is for the Saturn in the 5th house. Half of the almonds which are considered to have been blessed and which are brought back from the temple also belong to the 5th house. Therefore these almonds have to be kept in the east [ 5th house ]and not in a dark corner of the house. These blessed almonds should be kept tied in a yellow cloth because the 5th house is a pucca ghar of the jupiter. These almonds can also be kept in a white silk cloth represnting Moon [sun + Jupiter form Moon]; sun is the owner of the 5th and the 5th is a pucca ghar of jupiter. Keeping these almonds back into an iron container in a dark place would amount to unbless these almonds by handing them over to the Saturn all over again.With Regards,Varun Trivedi , "Dharmender Sharma" <dksrenu wrote:>> Respected Gurujans,> I am keen on knowing more about upayas related to Saturn malefic in the given situation. My humble question regarding the upaya is - why half of the almonds carried back home needs to be kept in a tight container and in a dark place? What planet iron container represents and what aspect is covered by the dark corner of the house?> > Please enlighten me.> Regards> Dharmender Sharma > > - > varun_trvd > > Saturday, September 29, 2007 8:55 PM> Lal Kitab Discussion Group Re: Shani 5th & budh ka upaya> > > Respected Miglani ji,> > I have checked both the 1941 and 42 editions and what you have said > is right. You are also right for what is said in the 1952 book.> > In my opinion the logic for the budh ka upaya mentioned in both the > earlier editions could be this:> > Saturn malefic consists of Mars + Mercury. The Mars constituent of > this combination can not do any harm in the 5th house which is owned > by the Sun and Jupiter [associated as the pucca ghar owner]. Both > the Sun and the Jupiter are friends of Mars. Therefore the only > possibility of any malefic out come of Saturn in the 5th could be > due to the Mercury component of Saturn. That is why Pandit Rupchand > ji advised the `budh ka upaya sahayak hoga'. > > The 5th house may not apparently be associated with mercury as such > but in this case the upaya is suggested not because of the house but > because of the constituent component of the planet.> > Regarding the second part of your query, in my opinion Pt.Rupchand > ji did not drop the budh ka upaya instead he suggested some > alternative upaya also in his 1952 book. I believe that the budh ka > upaya would still be very relevant because it is very logically > devised. All the five Lal Kitab books form a continuous series and > should not be taken as five different books.> > However I would agree that Pt.Rupchand ji in his 1952 edition > devised the almonds upaya for the Saturn as a whole instead of for a > part of it. This new devised upaya could have been based on the > feedback he might have received from his followers.> > I therefore feel that both the upaya can be done. If you feel that > there are any indications of only mercury being malefic in that case > there is no harm if budh ka upaya alone is done.> > With regards,> > Varun Trivedi> > , "kpmiglani" > <kpmiglani@> wrote:> >> > Sir,> > > > For Saturn in the 5th house both the Gutka of 1941 and the 1942 ed > > recommend ' budh ka upaya sahayak hoga'. There is no mention of > the > > almonds upaya of offering at the temple and bringing back half of > > them.> > In the 1952 book for the same shani in the 5th there is no mention > > of 'budh ka upaya' instead the almonds upaya is mentioned, not > once > > but three times. There are other upayas also mentioned but not the > > budh ka upaya.> > What intrigues me is that the 5th house is in no way related to > > mercury and yet the upaya of mercury is suggested. But why the > same > > upaya is not suggested in the 1952 edition and a new upaya is > > devised.> > Does it mean that Joshi ji realised that the budh ka upaya is not > as > > effective as he thought it to be and changed the upaya altogether. > > Or is it true that Joshi ji understood the Lal Kitab system better > > during those intervening ten years?> > > > Respectfully,> > > > KP Miglani> >>Kulbir Bains Get the freedom to save as many mails as you wish. Click here to know how. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2007 Report Share Posted September 30, 2007 Respected Sharma ji, In this group we take a very dispassionate view on topics and try to understand the logic behind them. We believe our small cotribution to the knowledge of Lal Kitab will go a long way to understand and implement the concepts and the principles of Lal Kitab Our effort is to develop a scientific temper towards the Lal Kitab and to bring it out of the mysterious world of myths and legends. It is so encouraging to find people like Lalkitabee ji and Kulbir bhai participating in the discussion. Soon the concept of scientific enquiry into Lal Kitab would snowball into some thing big and wonderful. With regards, Varun Trivedi , " Dharmender Sharma " <dksrenu wrote: > > Dear Kulbir Ji and Varun Ji, > I believe that Lalkitab knowledge is a social asset for all of us now. Remaining firm on this belief, it would be a right step to discuss this issue at length, including the logical approach people and MAD club scholars. More we are objective here and agree upon logical approach proved with the experiments and results, more it would help us to understand and practice lal kitab approach. > So I would like to humbly request all scholars of Lal Kitab to share their thoughts on this. > Sincerely, > Dharmender Sharma > > - > kulbir bains > > Sunday, September 30, 2007 11:07 PM > Lal Kitab Discussion Group Re: Shani 5th & budh ka upaya > > > > Varun ji, these type of answers will go a long way in dispellling the darkness of ignorance associated with lalkitab upayas. don't want to take names but i have myself seen some people who considers themselves ACHARYAs and URDU EXPERT GURUS recommending this iron box + darkness upaya. > sahi mayno mein is group ki wajah se ab kahin jakar lalkitab par asli kaam shuru hua hai. otherwise there are many MAD( mutual admiration) clubs. > kulbir bains > > varun_trvd <varun_trvd wrote: > Respected Sharma ji, > > I am afraid keeping the almonds brought back from the temple, in an > iron container in a dark corner is not the correct procedure. > > The upaya is for the Saturn in the 5th house. Half of the almonds > which are considered to have been blessed and which are brought back > from the temple also belong to the 5th house. Therefore these > almonds have to be kept in the east [ 5th house ]and not in a dark > corner of the house. > > These blessed almonds should be kept tied in a yellow cloth because > the 5th house is a pucca ghar of the jupiter. These almonds can also > be kept in a white silk cloth represnting Moon [sun + Jupiter form > Moon]; sun is the owner of the 5th and the 5th is a pucca ghar of > jupiter. > > Keeping these almonds back into an iron container in a dark place > would amount to unbless these almonds by handing them over to the > Saturn all over again. > > With Regards, > > Varun Trivedi > > , " Dharmender Sharma " > <dksrenu@> wrote: > > > > Respected Gurujans, > > I am keen on knowing more about upayas related to Saturn malefic > in the given situation. My humble question regarding the upaya is - > why half of the almonds carried back home needs to be kept in a > tight container and in a dark place? What planet iron container > represents and what aspect is covered by the dark corner of the > house? > > > > Please enlighten me. > > Regards > > Dharmender Sharma > > > > - > > varun_trvd > > > > Saturday, September 29, 2007 8:55 PM > > Lal Kitab Discussion Group Re: Shani 5th & budh ka upaya > > > > > > Respected Miglani ji, > > > > I have checked both the 1941 and 42 editions and what you have > said > > is right. You are also right for what is said in the 1952 book. > > > > In my opinion the logic for the budh ka upaya mentioned in both > the > > earlier editions could be this: > > > > Saturn malefic consists of Mars + Mercury. The Mars constituent > of > > this combination can not do any harm in the 5th house which is > owned > > by the Sun and Jupiter [associated as the pucca ghar owner]. > Both > > the Sun and the Jupiter are friends of Mars. Therefore the only > > possibility of any malefic out come of Saturn in the 5th could > be > > due to the Mercury component of Saturn. That is why Pandit > Rupchand > > ji advised the `budh ka upaya sahayak hoga'. > > > > The 5th house may not apparently be associated with mercury as > such > > but in this case the upaya is suggested not because of the house > but > > because of the constituent component of the planet. > > > > Regarding the second part of your query, in my opinion > Pt.Rupchand > > ji did not drop the budh ka upaya instead he suggested some > > alternative upaya also in his 1952 book. I believe that the budh > ka > > upaya would still be very relevant because it is very logically > > devised. All the five Lal Kitab books form a continuous series > and > > should not be taken as five different books. > > > > However I would agree that Pt.Rupchand ji in his 1952 edition > > devised the almonds upaya for the Saturn as a whole instead of > for a > > part of it. This new devised upaya could have been based on the > > feedback he might have received from his followers. > > > > I therefore feel that both the upaya can be done. If you feel > that > > there are any indications of only mercury being malefic in that > case > > there is no harm if budh ka upaya alone is done. > > > > With regards, > > > > Varun Trivedi > > > > , " kpmiglani " > > <kpmiglani@> wrote: > > > > > > Sir, > > > > > > For Saturn in the 5th house both the Gutka of 1941 and the > 1942 ed > > > recommend ' budh ka upaya sahayak hoga'. There is no mention > of > > the > > > almonds upaya of offering at the temple and bringing back half > of > > > them. > > > In the 1952 book for the same shani in the 5th there is no > mention > > > of 'budh ka upaya' instead the almonds upaya is mentioned, not > > once > > > but three times. There are other upayas also mentioned but not > the > > > budh ka upaya. > > > What intrigues me is that the 5th house is in no way related > to > > > mercury and yet the upaya of mercury is suggested. But why the > > same > > > upaya is not suggested in the 1952 edition and a new upaya is > > > devised. > > > Does it mean that Joshi ji realised that the budh ka upaya is > not > > as > > > effective as he thought it to be and changed the upaya > altogether. > > > Or is it true that Joshi ji understood the Lal Kitab system > better > > > during those intervening ten years? > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > > > KP Miglani > > > > Kulbir Bains > > > - ----------- > Get the freedom to save as many mails as you wish. Click here to know how. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2007 Report Share Posted October 1, 2007 Dear Varun jee and Kulbir jeeThe question of whether the Badam should be kept in Iron Dibba or Yellow cloth comes later, the main question here is why Saturn in 5th house becomes a "Bachhey Khaney Wala Saanp?" In my opinion, since the 5th house (Eastern Direction) belongs to Sun, presence of Shani in 5th house somehow creates a Surya aur Shani ka Takraav scenario. This very Takraav creates problem for Shukkar (Suraj Shani ke Takraav se Shukkar Maara Jayega). Ketu (Son) is Shukkar Ka Phal; by harming Ketu Shani becomes a Bachhey Khaney Wala Saanp in this house. Moreover, since Shani too is a sufferer in the hands of Sun, he transfers the effects on to Ketu and Ketu indirectly becomes a Balee Ka Bakraa.Now the question of how to keep these blessed Badams, and what can be the best option since nothing specific in this regard has been said in the Lal Kitab. We are all agreed that by binging back Badams from a temple "changes" their nature, I mean by doing this we believe that a divine blessing is present in the Badams or they becomes blessed - seems very logical. Now what is the rationale behind keeping them in the same place (Eastern direction i.e. direction of the 5th house)? Shani maharaj is aleady present there, so why one should "eastablish" it in the same place ehere is it considered as malefic, only because these are believed to be blessed? If so, how these blessed can become unblessed on other place? Actually, this aspect of directions is a new dimension added to the whole case, so a honest and detailed discussion on this matter should be done. Regarding keeping it in Yellow or White cloth, aren't we forgetting that Shukkar is also involved in cloths? What would be the consequences of involving Shukkar with Shani in the house of Sun (house no.5)? We must think about it. In my humble opinion, keeping these blessed Badams in an iron Dibba (Shani Budh) or in the earthen pot (medium size kooja) in the dark corner seems very logical. Secrecy and concealness is the nature of Shani, by doing this we are not only proving this to Shani but also disalllowing a snake to stroll around openly in our backyard. We are using Budh (empty space in the iron Dibba or earthen pot) to give refuge to this dangerous snake so that he can sit comfortably there and could not bite or scare the innocent kids playing around. I think the remedy of Budh recommended for Shani 5 is also somewhere present in this modus operandi. I request the learned Gurujans to have a look at this aspect too. Believe me, I have a solid reason of advocating this method, because, I myself have kept the blessed Badams in an Iron Dibba in a dark corner of my house for many many years, and none other than Great Pt. Rup Chand Joshi jee recommended it way back in the year 1978. Respectfully Yograj Prabhakar Affluent , "varun_trvd" <varun_trvd wrote:>> Respected Sharma ji,> > In this group we take a very dispassionate view on topics and try to > understand the logic behind them. We believe our small cotribution > to the knowledge of Lal Kitab will go a long way to understand and > implement the concepts and the principles of Lal Kitab > > Our effort is to develop a scientific temper towards the Lal Kitab > and to bring it out of the mysterious world of myths and legends.> > It is so encouraging to find people like Lalkitabee ji and Kulbir > bhai participating in the discussion.> > Soon the concept of scientific enquiry into Lal Kitab would snowball > into some thing big and wonderful.> > With regards,> > Varun Trivedi> > > > > > > > > > > > , "Dharmender Sharma" > dksrenu@ wrote:> >> > Dear Kulbir Ji and Varun Ji,> > I believe that Lalkitab knowledge is a social asset for all of us > now. Remaining firm on this belief, it would be a right step to > discuss this issue at length, including the logical approach people > and MAD club scholars. More we are objective here and agree upon > logical approach proved with the experiments and results, more it > would help us to understand and practice lal kitab approach.> > So I would like to humbly request all scholars of Lal Kitab to > share their thoughts on this.> > Sincerely,> > Dharmender Sharma > > > > - > > kulbir bains > > > > Sunday, September 30, 2007 11:07 PM> > Lal Kitab Discussion Group Re: Shani 5th & budh ka upaya> > > > > > > > Varun ji, these type of answers will go a long way in > dispellling the darkness of ignorance associated with lalkitab > upayas. don't want to take names but i have myself seen some people > who considers themselves ACHARYAs and URDU EXPERT GURUS recommending > this iron box + darkness upaya.> > sahi mayno mein is group ki wajah se ab kahin jakar lalkitab par > asli kaam shuru hua hai. otherwise there are many MAD( mutual > admiration) clubs.> > > kulbir bains> > > > varun_trvd varun_trvd@ wrote:> > Respected Sharma ji,> > > > I am afraid keeping the almonds brought back from the temple, > in an > > iron container in a dark corner is not the correct procedure.> > > > The upaya is for the Saturn in the 5th house. Half of the > almonds > > which are considered to have been blessed and which are > brought back > > from the temple also belong to the 5th house. Therefore these > > almonds have to be kept in the east [ 5th house ]and not in a > dark > > corner of the house. > > > > These blessed almonds should be kept tied in a yellow cloth > because > > the 5th house is a pucca ghar of the jupiter. These almonds > can also > > be kept in a white silk cloth represnting Moon [sun + Jupiter > form > > Moon]; sun is the owner of the 5th and the 5th is a pucca ghar > of > > jupiter. > > > > Keeping these almonds back into an iron container in a dark > place > > would amount to unbless these almonds by handing them over to > the > > Saturn all over again.> > > > With Regards,> > > > Varun Trivedi> > > > , "Dharmender > Sharma" > > <dksrenu@> wrote:> > >> > > Respected Gurujans,> > > I am keen on knowing more about upayas related to Saturn > malefic > > in the given situation. My humble question regarding the upaya > is - > > why half of the almonds carried back home needs to be kept in > a > > tight container and in a dark place? What planet iron > container > > represents and what aspect is covered by the dark corner of > the > > house?> > > > > > Please enlighten me.> > > Regards> > > Dharmender Sharma > > > > > > - > > > varun_trvd > > > > > > Saturday, September 29, 2007 8:55 PM> > > Lal Kitab Discussion Group Re: Shani 5th & budh ka > upaya> > > > > > > > > Respected Miglani ji,> > > > > > I have checked both the 1941 and 42 editions and what you > have > > said > > > is right. You are also right for what is said in the 1952 > book.> > > > > > In my opinion the logic for the budh ka upaya mentioned in > both > > the > > > earlier editions could be this:> > > > > > Saturn malefic consists of Mars + Mercury. The Mars > constituent > > of > > > this combination can not do any harm in the 5th house which > is > > owned > > > by the Sun and Jupiter [associated as the pucca ghar owner]. > > Both > > > the Sun and the Jupiter are friends of Mars. Therefore the > only > > > possibility of any malefic out come of Saturn in the 5th > could > > be > > > due to the Mercury component of Saturn. That is why Pandit > > Rupchand > > > ji advised the `budh ka upaya sahayak hoga'. > > > > > > The 5th house may not apparently be associated with mercury > as > > such > > > but in this case the upaya is suggested not because of the > house > > but > > > because of the constituent component of the planet.> > > > > > Regarding the second part of your query, in my opinion > > Pt.Rupchand > > > ji did not drop the budh ka upaya instead he suggested some > > > alternative upaya also in his 1952 book. I believe that the > budh > > ka > > > upaya would still be very relevant because it is very > logically > > > devised. All the five Lal Kitab books form a continuous > series > > and > > > should not be taken as five different books.> > > > > > However I would agree that Pt.Rupchand ji in his 1952 > edition > > > devised the almonds upaya for the Saturn as a whole instead > of > > for a > > > part of it. This new devised upaya could have been based on > the > > > feedback he might have received from his followers.> > > > > > I therefore feel that both the upaya can be done. If you > feel > > that > > > there are any indications of only mercury being malefic in > that > > case > > > there is no harm if budh ka upaya alone is done.> > > > > > With regards,> > > > > > Varun Trivedi> > > > > > , "kpmiglani" > > > <kpmiglani@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Sir,> > > > > > > > For Saturn in the 5th house both the Gutka of 1941 and the > > 1942 ed > > > > recommend ' budh ka upaya sahayak hoga'. There is no > mention > > of > > > the > > > > almonds upaya of offering at the temple and bringing back > half > > of > > > > them.> > > > In the 1952 book for the same shani in the 5th there is no > > mention > > > > of 'budh ka upaya' instead the almonds upaya is mentioned, > not > > > once > > > > but three times. There are other upayas also mentioned but > not > > the > > > > budh ka upaya.> > > > What intrigues me is that the 5th house is in no way > related > > to > > > > mercury and yet the upaya of mercury is suggested. But why > the > > > same > > > > upaya is not suggested in the 1952 edition and a new upaya > is > > > > devised.> > > > Does it mean that Joshi ji realised that the budh ka upaya > is > > not > > > as > > > > effective as he thought it to be and changed the upaya > > altogether. > > > > Or is it true that Joshi ji understood the Lal Kitab > system > > better > > > > during those intervening ten years?> > > > > > > > Respectfully,> > > > > > > > KP Miglani> > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Kulbir Bains> > > > > > -> -----------> > Get the freedom to save as many mails as you wish. Click here to > know how.> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2007 Report Share Posted October 1, 2007 Guruji, the variuous aspects of upayas of malefic planets are; 1. transferring the effect by activating some other house. 2. distancing or burying the effects. 3. changing the malefic tendency into benefic by converting the nature or cooling in it in that very house. e.g tilak of doodh or dahi for shani khanna no.2. lalkitab reccomends bringing half of the ten badams home.5 in temple and 5 at home neutralises the effect. IT IS A ZAMAANAT i.e. BAIL it is written that if somebody eats them (those brought home) they have poisonous effect.the blessed are those that are kept at temple and not that brought home. u can term them at the most as partially blessed. the 5 in temple act as surety for the 5 at home. now keeping them in iron box in darkness would amount to changing the nature of shay by removing the zameen of house no. 5.if empty space in dark iron box denotes budh then the shape of the iron box ( square or rectangular) also incorporates energy of mars. combined zameen of mars+saturn denotes houseno.8. so it is rational enogh to keep that energy at the minimum level by placing in yellow or white silken cloth in east direction. as far as use of cloth is mentioned it is basically so that the badams are kept collectively because it is written that if somebody eats them they have poisonous effect. it is mentioned in lalkitab that colour of the object gets preferance while prescribing it to a particular planet that's why yellow cloth or white silk. kulbirbains , " Yograj Prabhakar " <yr_prabhakar wrote: > > Dear Varun jee and Kulbir jee > > > The question of whether the Badam should be kept in Iron Dibba or Yellow > cloth comes later, the main question here is why Saturn in 5th house > becomes a " Bachhey Khaney Wala Saanp? " In my opinion, since the 5th > house (Eastern Direction) belongs to Sun, presence of Shani in 5th house > somehow creates a Surya aur Shani ka Takraav scenario. This very Takraav > creates problem for Shukkar (Suraj Shani ke Takraav se Shukkar Maara > Jayega). Ketu (Son) is Shukkar Ka Phal; by harming Ketu Shani becomes a > Bachhey Khaney Wala Saanp in this house. Moreover, since Shani too is a > sufferer in the hands of Sun, he transfers the effects on to Ketu and > Ketu indirectly becomes a Balee Ka Bakraa. > > > Now the question of how to keep these blessed Badams, and what can be > the best option since nothing specific in this regard has been said in > the Lal Kitab. We are all agreed that by binging back Badams from a > temple " changes " their nature, I mean by doing this we believe that a > divine blessing is present in the Badams or they becomes blessed - seems > very logical. Now what is the rationale behind keeping them in the same > place (Eastern direction i.e. direction of the 5th house)? Shani maharaj > is aleady present there, so why one should " eastablish " it in the same > place ehere is it considered as malefic, only because these are believed > to be blessed? If so, how these blessed can become unblessed on other > place? Actually, this aspect of directions is a new dimension added to > the whole case, so a honest and detailed discussion on this matter > should be done. > > > > > Regarding keeping it in Yellow or White cloth, aren't we forgetting that > Shukkar is also involved in cloths? What would be the consequences of > involving Shukkar with Shani in the house of Sun (house no.5)? We must > think about it. > > > > In my humble opinion, keeping these blessed Badams in an iron Dibba > (Shani Budh) or in the earthen pot (medium size kooja) in the dark > corner seems very logical. Secrecy and concealness is the nature of > Shani, by doing this we are not only proving this to Shani but also > disalllowing a snake to stroll around openly in our backyard. We are > using Budh (empty space in the iron Dibba or earthen pot) to give refuge > to this dangerous snake so that he can sit comfortably there and could > not bite or scare the innocent kids playing around. I think the remedy > of Budh recommended for Shani 5 is also somewhere present in this modus > operandi. I request the learned Gurujans to have a look at this aspect > too. > > Believe me, I have a solid reason of advocating this method, because, I > myself have kept the blessed Badams in an Iron Dibba in a dark corner of > my house for many many years, and none other than Great Pt. Rup Chand > Joshi jee recommended it way back in the year 1978. > > > > Respectfully > > Yograj Prabhakar > > > > Affluent > > > > , " varun_trvd " > <varun_trvd@> wrote: > > > > Respected Sharma ji, > > > > In this group we take a very dispassionate view on topics and try to > > understand the logic behind them. We believe our small cotribution > > to the knowledge of Lal Kitab will go a long way to understand and > > implement the concepts and the principles of Lal Kitab > > > > Our effort is to develop a scientific temper towards the Lal Kitab > > and to bring it out of the mysterious world of myths and legends. > > > > It is so encouraging to find people like Lalkitabee ji and Kulbir > > bhai participating in the discussion. > > > > Soon the concept of scientific enquiry into Lal Kitab would snowball > > into some thing big and wonderful. > > > > With regards, > > > > Varun Trivedi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Dharmender Sharma " > > dksrenu@ wrote: > > > > > > Dear Kulbir Ji and Varun Ji, > > > I believe that Lalkitab knowledge is a social asset for all of us > > now. Remaining firm on this belief, it would be a right step to > > discuss this issue at length, including the logical approach people > > and MAD club scholars. More we are objective here and agree upon > > logical approach proved with the experiments and results, more it > > would help us to understand and practice lal kitab approach. > > > So I would like to humbly request all scholars of Lal Kitab to > > share their thoughts on this. > > > Sincerely, > > > Dharmender Sharma > > > > > > - > > > kulbir bains > > > > > > Sunday, September 30, 2007 11:07 PM > > > Lal Kitab Discussion Group Re: Shani 5th & budh ka upaya > > > > > > > > > > > > Varun ji, these type of answers will go a long way in > > dispellling the darkness of ignorance associated with lalkitab > > upayas. don't want to take names but i have myself seen some people > > who considers themselves ACHARYAs and URDU EXPERT GURUS recommending > > this iron box + darkness upaya. > > > sahi mayno mein is group ki wajah se ab kahin jakar lalkitab par > > asli kaam shuru hua hai. otherwise there are many MAD( mutual > > admiration) clubs. > > > > > kulbir bains > > > > > > varun_trvd varun_trvd@ wrote: > > > Respected Sharma ji, > > > > > > I am afraid keeping the almonds brought back from the temple, > > in an > > > iron container in a dark corner is not the correct procedure. > > > > > > The upaya is for the Saturn in the 5th house. Half of the > > almonds > > > which are considered to have been blessed and which are > > brought back > > > from the temple also belong to the 5th house. Therefore these > > > almonds have to be kept in the east [ 5th house ]and not in a > > dark > > > corner of the house. > > > > > > These blessed almonds should be kept tied in a yellow cloth > > because > > > the 5th house is a pucca ghar of the jupiter. These almonds > > can also > > > be kept in a white silk cloth represnting Moon [sun + Jupiter > > form > > > Moon]; sun is the owner of the 5th and the 5th is a pucca ghar > > of > > > jupiter. > > > > > > Keeping these almonds back into an iron container in a dark > > place > > > would amount to unbless these almonds by handing them over to > > the > > > Saturn all over again. > > > > > > With Regards, > > > > > > Varun Trivedi > > > > > > , " Dharmender > > Sharma " > > > <dksrenu@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Respected Gurujans, > > > > I am keen on knowing more about upayas related to Saturn > > malefic > > > in the given situation. My humble question regarding the upaya > > is - > > > why half of the almonds carried back home needs to be kept in > > a > > > tight container and in a dark place? What planet iron > > container > > > represents and what aspect is covered by the dark corner of > > the > > > house? > > > > > > > > Please enlighten me. > > > > Regards > > > > Dharmender Sharma > > > > > > > > - > > > > varun_trvd > > > > > > > > Saturday, September 29, 2007 8:55 PM > > > > Lal Kitab Discussion Group Re: Shani 5th & budh ka > > upaya > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Miglani ji, > > > > > > > > I have checked both the 1941 and 42 editions and what you > > have > > > said > > > > is right. You are also right for what is said in the 1952 > > book. > > > > > > > > In my opinion the logic for the budh ka upaya mentioned in > > both > > > the > > > > earlier editions could be this: > > > > > > > > Saturn malefic consists of Mars + Mercury. The Mars > > constituent > > > of > > > > this combination can not do any harm in the 5th house which > > is > > > owned > > > > by the Sun and Jupiter [associated as the pucca ghar owner]. > > > Both > > > > the Sun and the Jupiter are friends of Mars. Therefore the > > only > > > > possibility of any malefic out come of Saturn in the 5th > > could > > > be > > > > due to the Mercury component of Saturn. That is why Pandit > > > Rupchand > > > > ji advised the `budh ka upaya sahayak hoga'. > > > > > > > > The 5th house may not apparently be associated with mercury > > as > > > such > > > > but in this case the upaya is suggested not because of the > > house > > > but > > > > because of the constituent component of the planet. > > > > > > > > Regarding the second part of your query, in my opinion > > > Pt.Rupchand > > > > ji did not drop the budh ka upaya instead he suggested some > > > > alternative upaya also in his 1952 book. I believe that the > > budh > > > ka > > > > upaya would still be very relevant because it is very > > logically > > > > devised. All the five Lal Kitab books form a continuous > > series > > > and > > > > should not be taken as five different books. > > > > > > > > However I would agree that Pt.Rupchand ji in his 1952 > > edition > > > > devised the almonds upaya for the Saturn as a whole instead > > of > > > for a > > > > part of it. This new devised upaya could have been based on > > the > > > > feedback he might have received from his followers. > > > > > > > > I therefore feel that both the upaya can be done. If you > > feel > > > that > > > > there are any indications of only mercury being malefic in > > that > > > case > > > > there is no harm if budh ka upaya alone is done. > > > > > > > > With regards, > > > > > > > > Varun Trivedi > > > > > > > > , " kpmiglani " > > > > <kpmiglani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Sir, > > > > > > > > > > For Saturn in the 5th house both the Gutka of 1941 and the > > > 1942 ed > > > > > recommend ' budh ka upaya sahayak hoga'. There is no > > mention > > > of > > > > the > > > > > almonds upaya of offering at the temple and bringing back > > half > > > of > > > > > them. > > > > > In the 1952 book for the same shani in the 5th there is no > > > mention > > > > > of 'budh ka upaya' instead the almonds upaya is mentioned, > > not > > > > once > > > > > but three times. There are other upayas also mentioned but > > not > > > the > > > > > budh ka upaya. > > > > > What intrigues me is that the 5th house is in no way > > related > > > to > > > > > mercury and yet the upaya of mercury is suggested. But why > > the > > > > same > > > > > upaya is not suggested in the 1952 edition and a new upaya > > is > > > > > devised. > > > > > Does it mean that Joshi ji realised that the budh ka upaya > > is > > > not > > > > as > > > > > effective as he thought it to be and changed the upaya > > > altogether. > > > > > Or is it true that Joshi ji understood the Lal Kitab > > system > > > better > > > > > during those intervening ten years? > > > > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > > > > > > > KP Miglani > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kulbir Bains > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ ---- > > ----------- > > > Get the freedom to save as many mails as you wish. Click here to > > know how. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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