Guest guest Posted January 9, 2001 Report Share Posted January 9, 2001 Dear Sanjay, Answers are in Capital. > " Sanjay Jaggia " <sanjaygg > > > 11th house >Tue, 9 Jan 2001 14:01:18 +0700 > >Respected Krushnaji, > >You gave some very interesting interpretation of the increasing points in >8:11:3:4. You wrote, > > " ...The person must be in service, because the points of 3rd house are more >than 11th, the person must get some unlawful income, bribe, or income with >less effort. If there is any planet with more points in 2nd house, then he >will get caught... " > >Let me try to interpret this. > >1. When you say unlawful or easy income, you are saying this because the >11th house stands for income from own efforts. So if points in the 3rd >house are more, then he gets income not from his own efforts. But why >should it be illegal? Because the 3rd house is A for the 8th house which >denotes unearned income? YES CORRECT, HOUSE 'A' IS KARAK FOR 'B'. hOUSE 'B' >DENOTES ILLEGAL INCOME. > >2. Why should planets in 2nd house have any connection? Is it because 2nd >is 12th from 3rd which means that planets with more points in this house >will cause problems. Or is it because the 2nd is E for the 5th house and >that is the house of the crown and taxes? Or is it because the planet in >2nd with more points will cast a negative aspect on the 8th house which >means it would obstruct the easy income? THE PLANETS IN 2ND WITH MORE POINTS AND SECOND LORD, ALWAYS CREATE PROBLEMS. ANY ILLEGAL ACT GETS OPEN IN SUCH PERIODS. THE SUB PERIOD IS CREATS WORRIES AND GIVES BLOT TO THE PERSON, EVEN FOR NO REASON. IF THE PERSON HAD DONE ANY ILLEGAL ACTIVITY, IT WILL BE OPENED. THIS IS DUE TO THE SIGHT OF 2ND HOUSE ON 8TH HOUSE. >This is a very interesting topic and your detailed explanations would be >highly instructive. > >Kind regards >Sanjay > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2001 Report Share Posted January 9, 2001 Respected Krushnaji, Thank you for your answers. The answer for the 2nd house was very clear. However, I am a little confused about the first answer. You have said that the 8th house stands for illegal or unearned money. And you said that the 3rd house, if it has more points than the 11, denotes illegal money. But we consider B house for the points, not A house. So why are we considering house A(3rd) for 8th house matter. If we were to follow the same logic, then we should be considering the points of 6th house for considering earned money. Therefore, considering the 8th house has less points than 11th, does it not mean that the major income would be from own efforts? You are requested to clarify. Kind regards Sanjay - " krushna kalani J.K. " <krushanain Tuesday, January 09, 2001 9:01 PM Re: 11th house Dear Sanjay, Answers are in Capital. > " Sanjay Jaggia " <sanjaygg > > > 11th house >Tue, 9 Jan 2001 14:01:18 +0700 > >Respected Krushnaji, > >You gave some very interesting interpretation of the increasing points in >8:11:3:4. You wrote, > > " ...The person must be in service, because the points of 3rd house are more >than 11th, the person must get some unlawful income, bribe, or income with >less effort. If there is any planet with more points in 2nd house, then he >will get caught... " > >Let me try to interpret this. > >1. When you say unlawful or easy income, you are saying this because the >11th house stands for income from own efforts. So if points in the 3rd >house are more, then he gets income not from his own efforts. But why >should it be illegal? Because the 3rd house is A for the 8th house which >denotes unearned income? YES CORRECT, HOUSE 'A' IS KARAK FOR 'B'. hOUSE 'B' >DENOTES ILLEGAL INCOME. > >2. Why should planets in 2nd house have any connection? Is it because 2nd >is 12th from 3rd which means that planets with more points in this house >will cause problems. Or is it because the 2nd is E for the 5th house and >that is the house of the crown and taxes? Or is it because the planet in >2nd with more points will cast a negative aspect on the 8th house which >means it would obstruct the easy income? THE PLANETS IN 2ND WITH MORE POINTS AND SECOND LORD, ALWAYS CREATE PROBLEMS. ANY ILLEGAL ACT GETS OPEN IN SUCH PERIODS. THE SUB PERIOD IS CREATS WORRIES AND GIVES BLOT TO THE PERSON, EVEN FOR NO REASON. IF THE PERSON HAD DONE ANY ILLEGAL ACTIVITY, IT WILL BE OPENED. THIS IS DUE TO THE SIGHT OF 2ND HOUSE ON 8TH HOUSE. >This is a very interesting topic and your detailed explanations would be >highly instructive. > >Kind regards >Sanjay > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2001 Report Share Posted January 10, 2001 Dear Sanjay, You are mixing two points, More points in 3rd then 11th indicates Sarvice. One point over. Second is when points for 8th house are more means illegal income IS INDICATED. IF WE COUNT FOR 11TH HOUSE TAKING 6TH HOUSE AS 'A' THEN 8TH WILL BE 'D' 11TH 'B' 3RD AS 'C' AND 4TH AS 'E'. IN THIS CASE INCOME WILL BE MORE, BUT FROM SERVICE. fOR OWN INCOME WE ARE NOT CONSIDERING 8TH HOUSE. WE TAKE 3:6:10:AND 11TH HOUSE, NOW FOR 8TH HOUSE WE MUST TALE 3RD:5TH: 8TH: 12:1ST. SO POINTS WILL BE COUNTED FOR 5:8:12:AND 1ST. tHESE ARE TWO DIFFERENT EVENTS OF THE LIFE. aNY HOW I AM GOING OUT FROM TOMORROW, UP TO 16TH JAN. SEE YOU AGAIN ON 16TH. krushna , " Sanjay Jaggia " <sanjaygg@l...> wrote: > Respected Krushnaji, > > Thank you for your answers. The answer for the 2nd house was very clear. > However, I am a little confused about the first answer. > > You have said that the 8th house stands for illegal or unearned money. And > you said that the 3rd house, if it has more points than the 11, denotes > illegal money. IT INDICATES SERVICE. But we consider B house for the points, not A house. So why > are we considering house A(3rd) for 8th house matter. If we were to follow > the same logic, then we should be considering the points of 6th house for > considering earned money. Therefore, considering the 8th house has less > points than 11th, does it not mean that the major income would be from own > efforts? > > You are requested to clarify. > > Kind regards > Sanjay > > - > " krushna kalani J.K. " <krushanain@h...> > > Tuesday, January 09, 2001 9:01 PM > Re: 11th house > > > Dear Sanjay, > Answers are in Capital. > > > > " Sanjay Jaggia " <sanjaygg@l...> > > > > > > 11th house > >Tue, 9 Jan 2001 14:01:18 +0700 > > > >Respected Krushnaji, > > > >You gave some very interesting interpretation of the increasing points in > >8:11:3:4. You wrote, > > > > " ...The person must be in service, because the points of 3rd house are more > >than 11th, the person must get some unlawful income, bribe, or income with > >less effort. If there is any planet with more points in 2nd house, then he > >will get caught... " > > > >Let me try to interpret this. > > > >1. When you say unlawful or easy income, you are saying this because the > >11th house stands for income from own efforts. So if points in the 3rd > >house are more, then he gets income not from his own efforts. But why > >should it be illegal? Because the 3rd house is A for the 8th house which > >denotes unearned income? YES CORRECT, HOUSE 'A' IS KARAK FOR 'B'. hOUSE 'B' > >DENOTES ILLEGAL INCOME. > > > >2. Why should planets in 2nd house have any connection? Is it because 2nd > >is 12th from 3rd which means that planets with more points in this house > >will cause problems. Or is it because the 2nd is E for the 5th house and > >that is the house of the crown and taxes? Or is it because the planet in > >2nd with more points will cast a negative aspect on the 8th house which > >means it would obstruct the easy income? > THE PLANETS IN 2ND WITH MORE POINTS AND SECOND LORD, ALWAYS CREATE PROBLEMS. > ANY ILLEGAL ACT GETS OPEN IN SUCH PERIODS. THE SUB PERIOD IS CREATS WORRIES > AND GIVES BLOT TO THE PERSON, EVEN FOR NO REASON. IF THE PERSON HAD DONE ANY > ILLEGAL ACTIVITY, IT WILL BE OPENED. THIS IS DUE TO THE SIGHT OF 2ND HOUSE > ON 8TH HOUSE. > >This is a very interesting topic and your detailed explanations would be > >highly instructive. > > > >Kind regards > >Sanjay > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2001 Report Share Posted January 15, 2001 Respected Krushnaji, Welcome back. I hope you can clarify this matter further, maybe by making a new lesson. You are probably fed up by my lack of understanding but you are requested to see this matter through. Are there any other important points which should be part of this system? Can we start analyzing more sample charts so that our grasp of this system becomes better? Kind regards Sanjay - " krushna " <krushanain Wednesday, January 10, 2001 9:48 PM Re: 11th house Dear Sanjay, You are mixing two points, More points in 3rd then 11th indicates Sarvice. One point over. Second is when points for 8th house are more means illegal income IS INDICATED. IF WE COUNT FOR 11TH HOUSE TAKING 6TH HOUSE AS 'A' THEN 8TH WILL BE 'D' 11TH 'B' 3RD AS 'C' AND 4TH AS 'E'. IN THIS CASE INCOME WILL BE MORE, BUT FROM SERVICE. fOR OWN INCOME WE ARE NOT CONSIDERING 8TH HOUSE. WE TAKE 3:6:10:AND 11TH HOUSE, NOW FOR 8TH HOUSE WE MUST TALE 3RD:5TH: 8TH: 12:1ST. SO POINTS WILL BE COUNTED FOR 5:8:12:AND 1ST. tHESE ARE TWO DIFFERENT EVENTS OF THE LIFE. aNY HOW I AM GOING OUT FROM TOMORROW, UP TO 16TH JAN. SEE YOU AGAIN ON 16TH. krushna , " Sanjay Jaggia " <sanjaygg@l...> wrote: > Respected Krushnaji, > > Thank you for your answers. The answer for the 2nd house was very clear. > However, I am a little confused about the first answer. > > You have said that the 8th house stands for illegal or unearned money. And > you said that the 3rd house, if it has more points than the 11, denotes > illegal money. IT INDICATES SERVICE. But we consider B house for the points, not A house. So why > are we considering house A(3rd) for 8th house matter. If we were to follow > the same logic, then we should be considering the points of 6th house for > considering earned money. Therefore, considering the 8th house has less > points than 11th, does it not mean that the major income would be from own > efforts? > > You are requested to clarify. > > Kind regards > Sanjay > > - > " krushna kalani J.K. " <krushanain@h...> > > Tuesday, January 09, 2001 9:01 PM > Re: 11th house > > > Dear Sanjay, > Answers are in Capital. > > > > " Sanjay Jaggia " <sanjaygg@l...> > > > > > > 11th house > >Tue, 9 Jan 2001 14:01:18 +0700 > > > >Respected Krushnaji, > > > >You gave some very interesting interpretation of the increasing points in > >8:11:3:4. You wrote, > > > > " ...The person must be in service, because the points of 3rd house are more > >than 11th, the person must get some unlawful income, bribe, or income with > >less effort. If there is any planet with more points in 2nd house, then he > >will get caught... " > > > >Let me try to interpret this. > > > >1. When you say unlawful or easy income, you are saying this because the > >11th house stands for income from own efforts. So if points in the 3rd > >house are more, then he gets income not from his own efforts. But why > >should it be illegal? Because the 3rd house is A for the 8th house which > >denotes unearned income? YES CORRECT, HOUSE 'A' IS KARAK FOR 'B'. hOUSE 'B' > >DENOTES ILLEGAL INCOME. > > > >2. Why should planets in 2nd house have any connection? Is it because 2nd > >is 12th from 3rd which means that planets with more points in this house > >will cause problems. Or is it because the 2nd is E for the 5th house and > >that is the house of the crown and taxes? Or is it because the planet in > >2nd with more points will cast a negative aspect on the 8th house which > >means it would obstruct the easy income? > THE PLANETS IN 2ND WITH MORE POINTS AND SECOND LORD, ALWAYS CREATE PROBLEMS. > ANY ILLEGAL ACT GETS OPEN IN SUCH PERIODS. THE SUB PERIOD IS CREATS WORRIES > AND GIVES BLOT TO THE PERSON, EVEN FOR NO REASON. IF THE PERSON HAD DONE ANY > ILLEGAL ACTIVITY, IT WILL BE OPENED. THIS IS DUE TO THE SIGHT OF 2ND HOUSE > ON 8TH HOUSE. > >This is a very interesting topic and your detailed explanations would be > >highly instructive. > > > >Kind regards > >Sanjay > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2001 Report Share Posted January 16, 2001 Dear Sanjay, Yes I am back now. it is now 00:13 am. reading so many mails. I will answer tomorrow. krushna > " Sanjay Jaggia " <sanjaygg > > >Re: Re: 11th house >Tue, 16 Jan 2001 13:24:25 +0700 > >Respected Krushnaji, > >Welcome back. I hope you can clarify this matter further, maybe by making a >new lesson. You are probably fed up by my lack of understanding but you are >requested to see this matter through. > >Are there any other important points which should be part of this system? >Can we start analyzing more sample charts so that our grasp of this system >becomes better? > >Kind regards >Sanjay > >- > " krushna " <krushanain > >Wednesday, January 10, 2001 9:48 PM > Re: 11th house > > >Dear Sanjay, > You are mixing two points, More points in 3rd then 11th indicates >Sarvice. One point over. > Second is when points for 8th house are more means illegal >income IS INDICATED. IF WE COUNT FOR 11TH HOUSE TAKING 6TH HOUSE >AS 'A' THEN 8TH WILL BE 'D' 11TH 'B' 3RD AS 'C' AND 4TH AS 'E'. IN >THIS CASE INCOME WILL BE MORE, BUT FROM SERVICE. > fOR OWN INCOME WE ARE NOT CONSIDERING 8TH HOUSE. >WE TAKE 3:6:10:AND 11TH HOUSE, NOW FOR 8TH HOUSE WE MUST TALE >3RD:5TH: 8TH: 12:1ST. SO POINTS WILL BE COUNTED FOR 5:8:12:AND 1ST. > > tHESE ARE TWO DIFFERENT EVENTS OF THE LIFE. > > aNY HOW I AM GOING OUT FROM TOMORROW, UP TO 16TH JAN. >SEE YOU AGAIN ON 16TH. >krushna > , " Sanjay Jaggia " ><sanjaygg@l...> wrote: > > Respected Krushnaji, > > > > Thank you for your answers. The answer for the 2nd house was very >clear. > > However, I am a little confused about the first answer. > > > > You have said that the 8th house stands for illegal or unearned >money. And > > you said that the 3rd house, if it has more points than the 11, >denotes > > illegal money. IT INDICATES SERVICE. But we consider B house for >the points, not A house. So why > > are we considering house A(3rd) for 8th house matter. If we were to >follow > > the same logic, then we should be considering the points of 6th >house for > > considering earned money. Therefore, considering the 8th house has >less > > points than 11th, does it not mean that the major income would be >from own > > efforts? > > > > You are requested to clarify. > > > > Kind regards > > Sanjay > > > > - > > " krushna kalani J.K. " <krushanain@h...> > > > > Tuesday, January 09, 2001 9:01 PM > > Re: 11th house > > > > > > Dear Sanjay, > > Answers are in Capital. > > > > > > > " Sanjay Jaggia " <sanjaygg@l...> > > > > > > > > > 11th house > > >Tue, 9 Jan 2001 14:01:18 +0700 > > > > > >Respected Krushnaji, > > > > > >You gave some very interesting interpretation of the increasing >points in > > >8:11:3:4. You wrote, > > > > > > " ...The person must be in service, because the points of 3rd house >are more > > >than 11th, the person must get some unlawful income, bribe, or >income with > > >less effort. If there is any planet with more points in 2nd house, >then he > > >will get caught... " > > > > > >Let me try to interpret this. > > > > > >1. When you say unlawful or easy income, you are saying this >because the > > >11th house stands for income from own efforts. So if points in the >3rd > > >house are more, then he gets income not from his own efforts. But >why > > >should it be illegal? Because the 3rd house is A for the 8th house >which > > >denotes unearned income? YES CORRECT, HOUSE 'A' IS KARAK FOR 'B'. >hOUSE 'B' > > >DENOTES ILLEGAL INCOME. > > > > > >2. Why should planets in 2nd house have any connection? Is it >because 2nd > > >is 12th from 3rd which means that planets with more points in this >house > > >will cause problems. Or is it because the 2nd is E for the 5th >house and > > >that is the house of the crown and taxes? Or is it because the >planet in > > >2nd with more points will cast a negative aspect on the 8th house >which > > >means it would obstruct the easy income? > > THE PLANETS IN 2ND WITH MORE POINTS AND SECOND LORD, ALWAYS CREATE >PROBLEMS. > > ANY ILLEGAL ACT GETS OPEN IN SUCH PERIODS. THE SUB PERIOD IS CREATS >WORRIES > > AND GIVES BLOT TO THE PERSON, EVEN FOR NO REASON. IF THE PERSON HAD >DONE ANY > > ILLEGAL ACTIVITY, IT WILL BE OPENED. THIS IS DUE TO THE SIGHT OF >2ND HOUSE > > ON 8TH HOUSE. > > >This is a very interesting topic and your detailed explanations >would be > > >highly instructive. > > > > > >Kind regards > > >Sanjay > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2001 Report Share Posted January 18, 2001 dEAR sANJAY, >>Re: Re: 11th house >Tue, 16 Jan 2001 13:24:25 +0700 > >Respected Krushnaji, > >Welcome back. I hope you can clarify this matter further, maybe by making a >new lesson. You are probably fed up by my lack of understanding but you are >requested to see this matter through. NO SANJAY, I HAVE NO PROBLEM. YOU CAN >ASK ANY QUESTION, I WILL TRY TO ANSWER, ONLY TIME SHOULD PERMIT ME. > >Are there any other important points which should be part of this system? >GENERAL SYSTEM IS COMPLETED. SOME SPECIAL CASES, WE WILL DEAL TIME TO TIME. >Can we start analyzing more sample charts so that our grasp of this system >becomes better? AGREED. I HAVE THOUSANDS OF CHARTS, I WILL SORT OUT SOME EASY CHARTS, (OF COURSE MATTER OF TIME FACTOR) WILL PUT IN THE LIST. KRUSHNA >Kind regards >Sanjay > >- > " krushna " <krushanain > >Wednesday, January 10, 2001 9:48 PM > Re: 11th house > > >Dear Sanjay, > You are mixing two points, More points in 3rd then 11th indicates >Sarvice. One point over. > Second is when points for 8th house are more means illegal >income IS INDICATED. IF WE COUNT FOR 11TH HOUSE TAKING 6TH HOUSE >AS 'A' THEN 8TH WILL BE 'D' 11TH 'B' 3RD AS 'C' AND 4TH AS 'E'. IN >THIS CASE INCOME WILL BE MORE, BUT FROM SERVICE. > fOR OWN INCOME WE ARE NOT CONSIDERING 8TH HOUSE. >WE TAKE 3:6:10:AND 11TH HOUSE, NOW FOR 8TH HOUSE WE MUST TALE >3RD:5TH: 8TH: 12:1ST. SO POINTS WILL BE COUNTED FOR 5:8:12:AND 1ST. > > tHESE ARE TWO DIFFERENT EVENTS OF THE LIFE. > > aNY HOW I AM GOING OUT FROM TOMORROW, UP TO 16TH JAN. >SEE YOU AGAIN ON 16TH. >krushna > , " Sanjay Jaggia " ><sanjaygg@l...> wrote: > > Respected Krushnaji, > > > > Thank you for your answers. The answer for the 2nd house was very >clear. > > However, I am a little confused about the first answer. > > > > You have said that the 8th house stands for illegal or unearned >money. And > > you said that the 3rd house, if it has more points than the 11, >denotes > > illegal money. IT INDICATES SERVICE. But we consider B house for >the points, not A house. So why > > are we considering house A(3rd) for 8th house matter. If we were to >follow > > the same logic, then we should be considering the points of 6th >house for > > considering earned money. Therefore, considering the 8th house has >less > > points than 11th, does it not mean that the major income would be >from own > > efforts? > > > > You are requested to clarify. > > > > Kind regards > > Sanjay > > > > - > > " krushna kalani J.K. " <krushanain@h...> > > > > Tuesday, January 09, 2001 9:01 PM > > Re: 11th house > > > > > > Dear Sanjay, > > Answers are in Capital. > > > > > > > " Sanjay Jaggia " <sanjaygg@l...> > > > > > > > > > 11th house > > >Tue, 9 Jan 2001 14:01:18 +0700 > > > > > >Respected Krushnaji, > > > > > >You gave some very interesting interpretation of the increasing >points in > > >8:11:3:4. You wrote, > > > > > > " ...The person must be in service, because the points of 3rd house >are more > > >than 11th, the person must get some unlawful income, bribe, or >income with > > >less effort. If there is any planet with more points in 2nd house, >then he > > >will get caught... " > > > > > >Let me try to interpret this. > > > > > >1. When you say unlawful or easy income, you are saying this >because the > > >11th house stands for income from own efforts. So if points in the >3rd > > >house are more, then he gets income not from his own efforts. But >why > > >should it be illegal? Because the 3rd house is A for the 8th house >which > > >denotes unearned income? YES CORRECT, HOUSE 'A' IS KARAK FOR 'B'. >hOUSE 'B' > > >DENOTES ILLEGAL INCOME. > > > > > >2. Why should planets in 2nd house have any connection? Is it >because 2nd > > >is 12th from 3rd which means that planets with more points in this >house > > >will cause problems. Or is it because the 2nd is E for the 5th >house and > > >that is the house of the crown and taxes? Or is it because the >planet in > > >2nd with more points will cast a negative aspect on the 8th house >which > > >means it would obstruct the easy income? > > THE PLANETS IN 2ND WITH MORE POINTS AND SECOND LORD, ALWAYS CREATE >PROBLEMS. > > ANY ILLEGAL ACT GETS OPEN IN SUCH PERIODS. THE SUB PERIOD IS CREATS >WORRIES > > AND GIVES BLOT TO THE PERSON, EVEN FOR NO REASON. IF THE PERSON HAD >DONE ANY > > ILLEGAL ACTIVITY, IT WILL BE OPENED. THIS IS DUE TO THE SIGHT OF >2ND HOUSE > > ON 8TH HOUSE. > > >This is a very interesting topic and your detailed explanations >would be > > >highly instructive. > > > > > >Kind regards > > >Sanjay > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 Respected Sharma ji, When moon is in the 11th under the aspect of Saturn from the 3rd, the karak objects of moon suffer up to the age of moon { 24 years } or Saturn { 36 years }. It can cause mother to be either ill, or financially ruined or even can cause death or can give ‘mrityu-tulya kasht’. As for Venus in the 11th, although it might get some support from the aspect of Saturn, but it might still be unreliable. It could adversely affect the sister. The aspect of mars from the 3rd would help Venus in terms of progeny which could otherwise be jeopardized because of moon in the 11th. Mercury in the 11th , will be extremely bad till the age of 34, but after that it will be a catalyst for the good. Till the age of 34 it would adversely affect the karaks of moon, Saturn and Jupiter. It will act beneficially the years it appears in the 1st house in the Varsh Phal. The aspect of Saturn and Mars from the 3rd is not going to change thing much. Since the Venus is going to be unreliable, it can not be definitely said that marriage will improve financial status. Regards, Chandra Prakash , " mrsorabhsharma " <mrsorabhsharma wrote: > > Dear Sir > > If moon, venus and mercury are jointly placed in the 11th house and > are aspected by saturn and mars in third house - does this make moon a > malefic and destroy childhood and saturn and mercury related things? > The fact that venus in now in the house of income - does this mean > income will flow once the native is married ? Many thanks > > kind regards > sorabh > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2007 Report Share Posted July 31, 2007 Dearest and Respected Prakash Ji Thank you for yet another excellent and useful interpretation - May i further ask however - This man also has a rahu -sun combination in the twelvth house - it has caused many disputes quarrels and upsets in his life. But am i right in assuming that he is saved from a total solar eclipse because of the venus mercury combination (making a sun) in the 11th house? Does Rahu remain as powerful? Especially because there is a saturn mars combination in the third house - making a false Rahu? Thank you so much kindest regards sorabh sharma > Respected Sharma ji, > > When moon is in the 11th under the aspect of Saturn from the 3rd, the > karak objects of moon suffer up to the age of moon { 24 years } or > Saturn { 36 years }. It can cause mother to be either ill, or > financially ruined or even can cause death or can give ‘mrityu- tulya > kasht’. > > As for Venus in the 11th, although it might get some support from the > aspect of Saturn, but it might still be unreliable. It could adversely > affect the sister. The aspect of mars from the 3rd would help Venus in > terms of progeny which could otherwise be jeopardized because of moon > in the 11th. > > Mercury in the 11th , will be extremely bad till the age of 34, but > after that it will be a catalyst for the good. Till the age of 34 it > would adversely affect the karaks of moon, Saturn and Jupiter. It will > act beneficially the years it appears in the 1st house in the Varsh > Phal. The aspect of Saturn and Mars from the 3rd is not going to > change thing much. > > Since the Venus is going to be unreliable, it can not be definitely > said that marriage will improve financial status. > > Regards, > > Chandra Prakash > > , " mrsorabhsharma " > <mrsorabhsharma@> wrote: > > > > Dear Sir > > > > If moon, venus and mercury are jointly placed in the 11th house and > > are aspected by saturn and mars in third house - does this make moon > a > > malefic and destroy childhood and saturn and mercury related things? > > The fact that venus in now in the house of income - does this mean > > income will flow once the native is married ? Many thanks > > > > kind regards > > sorabh > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2007 Report Share Posted July 31, 2007 Respected Sorabh ji, The Sun and Rahu together in the 12th house causes an eclipsed sun ‘ ghar 9,12 grahan ravi ka’ . Rahu will be like a wall preceding the Sun. The eclipsed Sun is described as having the brightness alright but no heat. This grahan will last till the age of 39. After this age for another 39 years the Sun will be bright and hot as ever. Yes, the venus + mercury combination in the 11th had saved the situation to a great extent. Mars is not in a position to control Rahu. On the contrary rahu { elephant } is in a position to ‘ throw mud at the mahout { mars } which could give bad health, the destiny will be eclipsed, conflict with the Government due to his own unreasonable thinking, excessive expenditure; might even have black & white spots on the skin. The aspect of the Saturn is likely to strengthen the Rahu which could make it belligerent. Regards, Chandra Prakash -- In , " mrsorabhsharma " <mrsorabhsharma wrote: > > Dearest and Respected Prakash Ji > > Thank you for yet another excellent and useful interpretation - May > i further ask however - This man also has a rahu -sun combination in > the twelvth house - it has caused many disputes quarrels and upsets > in his life. But am i right in assuming that he is saved from a > total solar eclipse because of the venus mercury combination (making > a sun) in the 11th house? Does Rahu remain as powerful? Especially > because there is a saturn mars combination in the third house - > making a false Rahu? Thank you so much > > kindest regards > > sorabh sharma > > > > Respected Sharma ji, > > > > When moon is in the 11th under the aspect of Saturn from the 3rd, > the > > karak objects of moon suffer up to the age of moon { 24 years } or > > Saturn { 36 years }. It can cause mother to be either ill, or > > financially ruined or even can cause death or can give ‘mrityu- > tulya > > kasht’. > > > > As for Venus in the 11th, although it might get some support from > the > > aspect of Saturn, but it might still be unreliable. It could > adversely > > affect the sister. The aspect of mars from the 3rd would help > Venus in > > terms of progeny which could otherwise be jeopardized because of > moon > > in the 11th. > > > > Mercury in the 11th , will be extremely bad till the age of 34, > but > > after that it will be a catalyst for the good. Till the age of 34 > it > > would adversely affect the karaks of moon, Saturn and Jupiter. It > will > > act beneficially the years it appears in the 1st house in the > Varsh > > Phal. The aspect of Saturn and Mars from the 3rd is not going to > > change thing much. > > > > Since the Venus is going to be unreliable, it can not be > definitely > > said that marriage will improve financial status. > > > > Regards, > > > > Chandra Prakash > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " mrsorabhsharma " > > <mrsorabhsharma@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sir > > > > > > If moon, venus and mercury are jointly placed in the 11th house > and > > > are aspected by saturn and mars in third house - does this make > moon > > a > > > malefic and destroy childhood and saturn and mercury related > things? > > > The fact that venus in now in the house of income - does this > mean > > > income will flow once the native is married ? Many thanks > > > > > > kind regards > > > sorabh > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 At 09:15 AM 5/19/08 -0700, Bettina wrote: >Of course one has to take the whole chart into consideration, but I've >observed that when people have the Sun in the 11th they're fortunate as far >as doors opening for them or being taken care of through other peoples' >efforts... Hi Bettina, The 11th was the ancient house of Patronage, where one recieved favors or wealth from others. Later his became the house of 'friends.' But I think the underlying idea is that we receive help from others automatically without seeming to work for it. One thing the 11th is not is a house of groups. I'm not sure how that affiliation came to be since groups belong in the 8th--western side of the chart--cooperation or restriction having to work with others following the house of partnership, the 7th. The armed forces, schools, hospitals, churches, jails, institutions...etc. >So, maybe the key there is that their fate is secure and they >don't have to work real hard to survive, therefor they're freed up to do >creative things or just what appeals to them rather than slog along doing >drudgery-like tasks or have to concentrate on being super ambitious. That >would explain why some would express themselves through the arts, writing, >etc. Great analysis!! Thanks. Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 In the Vedic system the 11th is considered an Upachaya house (along with 3rd, 6th, and 10th). Upacha houses are " growing " houses. These are thought to be the best houses for malefics and the Sun is a mild malefic in that system. Benefics are thought to be a bit wasted there. ....Bettina _____ On Behalf Of Therese Hamilton Monday, May 19, 2008 10:11 AM RE: 11th house At 09:15 AM 5/19/08 -0700, Bettina wrote: >Of course one has to take the whole chart into consideration, but I've >observed that when people have the Sun in the 11th they're fortunate as far >as doors opening for them or being taken care of through other peoples' >efforts... Hi Bettina, The 11th was the ancient house of Patronage, where one recieved favors or wealth from others. Later his became the house of 'friends.' But I think the underlying idea is that we receive help from others automatically without seeming to work for it. One thing the 11th is not is a house of groups. I'm not sure how that affiliation came to be since groups belong in the 8th--western side of the chart--cooperation or restriction having to work with others following the house of partnership, the 7th. The armed forces, schools, hospitals, churches, jails, institutions...etc. >So, maybe the key there is that their fate is secure and they >don't have to work real hard to survive, therefor they're freed up to do >creative things or just what appeals to them rather than slog along doing >drudgery-like tasks or have to concentrate on being super ambitious. That >would explain why some would express themselves through the arts, writing, >etc. Great analysis!! Thanks. Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 Hi all, I was curious about the 11th house since my Sun and Moon are there. This is the Indian equal house (bhava) system with ancient roots in India. Cusps are at the center of equal houses. Basically this system highlights aspects to the ascendant or at least a zodiacal area mathematically measured from the ascendant. I used a 7 degree orb for the Sun and a 10 degree orb for the Moon. ADB 4 pulled up 42 charts. These results show that different ways of tabulating planets in the houses can give different results. The largest number of charts (8) related to various TRAGEDIES, often involving children: infant mortality, a child killed, a missing child, an orphan, 4 suicides. I wondered if the cases involving children had to do with the 11th being opposite the 5th. The next largest group is METAPHYSICAL. (7) 4 astrologers, a Vedic monk, a UFO abductee who hosts annual conferences, a metaphysical writer Next, the HEALING PROFESSIONS. (4) a psychologist, 2 physicians, acupuncturist, psychiatric nurse The ARTS (3) artist, singer, dancer ENTERTAINMENT PROFESSION (3) comedy writer, 2 TV personalities, one of whom is a poet SPORTS (2) Pro baseball, boxing champ Since sports is obviously not an 11th house occupation, I printed their charts to see: The boxing champ had Jupiter on the 7th cusp, and navamsa Sun and Mars in Aries in the 7th. This is an example of why the navamsa chart is important. The baseball pitcher had Scorpio rising with Mars in Gemini (arms) in the 8th (teams). Mars is on the navamsa ascendant. Again, we need the navamsa for the Mars emphasis. Sun is in the 8th navamsa house. (A hint that navamsa houses may be important.) POLITICIAN (1) Brian Mulroney, Canadian Prime Minister This chart has the Political signature, Jupiter-Moon, but in the 11th with the Sun. From the navamsa Jupiter and Mars cross to the natal ascendant. Jupiter is the 8th lord, so there's an 8th house emphasis (groups and organizations) moved to the 11th with the Moon-Sun. I'm wondering if those who reach the highest office must have planets in the 11th showing exceptional favor from others? Mulroney's ascendant lord is Venus in the 10th. MISCELLANEOUS The 4 gay charts are probably not related to the 11th house, since ADB has hundreds of homosexual charts; There was one very independent queen who didn't conform to what her country expected of her (Beatrix). 2 educators, 2 noted families, a multiple birth, a real estate agent. Note that there are only 2 charts requiring cooperation with others in a political party or on a sports team. Based on this small study of Sun-Moon in the 11th bhava, the 11th isn't a popular house for politicians. Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 Hi Therese, I think you have just proved the Bhavat Bhavam principle. ie 11H is 6H from6H. This will have the flavour of 6H eg health, disease, tragedies, healing. Planets in 11H aspect 5H so this could include tragedies involving children. The 11H is also 12H from 12H and the 12H relates to metaphysical, renunciation, strange phenomena etc. Sports is about competition another 6H signification. The 11H is not popular for politicians but the 12H planets are good for politicians. especially Sun and Moon above the ascendant and near the 12Cusp. Eg Bill. Clinton(Sun)( Virgo asc.), Hillary Clinton(Sun )( Libra asc). See also Blair, Brown and Bush who have Sun near 12H cusp. Ron Therese Hamilton wrote: > Hi all, > > I was curious about the 11th house since my Sun and Moon are there. This is > the Indian equal house (bhava) system with ancient roots in India. Cusps > are at the center of equal houses. Basically this system highlights aspects > to the ascendant or at least a zodiacal area mathematically measured from > the ascendant. I used a 7 degree orb for the Sun and a 10 degree orb for > the Moon. ADB 4 pulled up 42 charts. These results show that different ways > of tabulating planets in the houses can give different results. > > The largest number of charts (8) related to various TRAGEDIES, often > involving children: infant mortality, a child killed, a missing child, an > orphan, 4 suicides. I wondered if the cases involving children had to do > with the 11th being opposite the 5th. > > The next largest group is METAPHYSICAL. (7) > 4 astrologers, a Vedic monk, a UFO abductee who hosts annual conferences, > a metaphysical writer > > Next, the HEALING PROFESSIONS. (4) > a psychologist, 2 physicians, acupuncturist, psychiatric nurse > > The ARTS (3) > artist, singer, dancer > > ENTERTAINMENT PROFESSION (3) > comedy writer, 2 TV personalities, one of whom is a poet > > SPORTS (2) > Pro baseball, boxing champ > Since sports is obviously not an 11th house occupation, I printed their > charts to see: > > The boxing champ had Jupiter on the 7th cusp, and navamsa Sun and Mars in > Aries in the 7th. This is an example of why the navamsa chart is important. > > The baseball pitcher had Scorpio rising with Mars in Gemini (arms) in the > 8th (teams). Mars is on the navamsa ascendant. Again, we need the navamsa > for the Mars emphasis. Sun is in the 8th navamsa house. (A hint that > navamsa houses may be important.) > > POLITICIAN (1) > Brian Mulroney, Canadian Prime Minister > This chart has the Political signature, Jupiter-Moon, but in the 11th with > the Sun. From the navamsa Jupiter and Mars cross to the natal ascendant. > Jupiter is the 8th lord, so there's an 8th house emphasis (groups and > organizations) moved to the 11th with the Moon-Sun. > > I'm wondering if those who reach the highest office must have planets in > the 11th showing exceptional favor from others? Mulroney's ascendant lord > is Venus in the 10th. > > MISCELLANEOUS > The 4 gay charts are probably not related to the 11th house, since ADB has > hundreds of homosexual charts; > There was one very independent queen who didn't conform to what her country > expected of her (Beatrix). > 2 educators, 2 noted families, a multiple birth, a real estate agent. > > Note that there are only 2 charts requiring cooperation with others in a > political party or on a sports team. Based on this small study of Sun-Moon > in the 11th bhava, the 11th isn't a popular house for politicians. > > Therese > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 At 03:06 PM 5/20/08 +1000, Ron Day wrote: >Hi Therese, > >I think you have just proved the Bhavat Bhavam principle. ie 11H is 6H >from6H. This will have the flavour of 6H eg health, disease, tragedies, healing. >Planets in 11H aspect 5H so this could include tragedies involving children. Hi Ron, Thanks for your reply. Maybe not quite 'proved' the Bhavat Bhavam principle, but given it some support. I hadn't even thought of that principle in relation to the 11th, and was surprised at the tragedies. >The 11H is also 12H from 12H and the 12H relates to metaphysical, >renunciation, strange phenomena etc. I'm going to check the 12th house the same way--maybe tomorrow. > The 11H is not popular for politicians but the 12H planets are good >for politicians. especially Sun and Moon above the ascendant and near >the 12Cusp. If the 12th is better for politicians, then McCain's 9:00 a.m. birth time has that 12th house Sun--not near the cusp, however. Ascendant lord Mercury is in the 12th, and 9th lord Venus is on the cusp of 12. I have to take a look at the 11:00 am chart--haven't had time yet. Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 Jimmy Carter, if his time was correct, also had 12th hs. Sun. My mother (if her time is correct) has 11th Sun and lost her first child. Also had one child with a physical disability. People with 12th hs Suns tend to want to be in control, don't know why this is. ....Bettina _____ On Behalf Of RonDay Monday, May 19, 2008 10:06 PM Re: RE: 11th house Hi Therese, I think you have just proved the Bhavat Bhavam principle. ie 11H is 6H from6H. This will have the flavour of 6H eg health, disease, tragedies, healing. Planets in 11H aspect 5H so this could include tragedies involving children. The 11H is also 12H from 12H and the 12H relates to metaphysical, renunciation, strange phenomena etc. Sports is about competition another 6H signification. The 11H is not popular for politicians but the 12H planets are good for politicians. especially Sun and Moon above the ascendant and near the 12Cusp. Eg Bill. Clinton(Sun)( Virgo asc.), Hillary Clinton(Sun )( Libra asc). See also Blair, Brown and Bush who have Sun near 12H cusp. Ron Therese Hamilton wrote: > Hi all, > > I was curious about the 11th house since my Sun and Moon are there. This is > the Indian equal house (bhava) system with ancient roots in India. Cusps > are at the center of equal houses. Basically this system highlights aspects > to the ascendant or at least a zodiacal area mathematically measured from > the ascendant. I used a 7 degree orb for the Sun and a 10 degree orb for > the Moon. ADB 4 pulled up 42 charts. These results show that different ways > of tabulating planets in the houses can give different results. > > The largest number of charts (8) related to various TRAGEDIES, often > involving children: infant mortality, a child killed, a missing child, an > orphan, 4 suicides. I wondered if the cases involving children had to do > with the 11th being opposite the 5th. > > The next largest group is METAPHYSICAL. (7) > 4 astrologers, a Vedic monk, a UFO abductee who hosts annual conferences, > a metaphysical writer > > Next, the HEALING PROFESSIONS. (4) > a psychologist, 2 physicians, acupuncturist, psychiatric nurse > > The ARTS (3) > artist, singer, dancer > > ENTERTAINMENT PROFESSION (3) > comedy writer, 2 TV personalities, one of whom is a poet > > SPORTS (2) > Pro baseball, boxing champ > Since sports is obviously not an 11th house occupation, I printed their > charts to see: > > The boxing champ had Jupiter on the 7th cusp, and navamsa Sun and Mars in > Aries in the 7th. This is an example of why the navamsa chart is important. > > The baseball pitcher had Scorpio rising with Mars in Gemini (arms) in the > 8th (teams). Mars is on the navamsa ascendant. Again, we need the navamsa > for the Mars emphasis. Sun is in the 8th navamsa house. (A hint that > navamsa houses may be important.) > > POLITICIAN (1) > Brian Mulroney, Canadian Prime Minister > This chart has the Political signature, Jupiter-Moon, but in the 11th with > the Sun. From the navamsa Jupiter and Mars cross to the natal ascendant. > Jupiter is the 8th lord, so there's an 8th house emphasis (groups and > organizations) moved to the 11th with the Moon-Sun. > > I'm wondering if those who reach the highest office must have planets in > the 11th showing exceptional favor from others? Mulroney's ascendant lord > is Venus in the 10th. > > MISCELLANEOUS > The 4 gay charts are probably not related to the 11th house, since ADB has > hundreds of homosexual charts; > There was one very independent queen who didn't conform to what her country > expected of her (Beatrix). > 2 educators, 2 noted families, a multiple birth, a real estate agent. > > Note that there are only 2 charts requiring cooperation with others in a > political party or on a sports team. Based on this small study of Sun-Moon > in the 11th bhava, the 11th isn't a popular house for politicians. > > Therese > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 Hi all, This is an interesting discussion. Wanted to mention the following for your comments. I had so far known the following explanation: 11th house reflects material gains from the work/career/job etc. Vedically the explanation being, that 11th is the second from the 10th. But the idea of wealth/gains etc coming as undeserved/ not worked for privilege would contradict that. Is there a way that both these views can be assimilated? I also came across writings that said second house reflects the ability to maintain/sustain wealth in addition to, of course, first creating it ( 11th house matter). One can create wealth and squander it, in case of a weak second house for example. Also, there are many nuances. Say, a housewife or stay at home husband relies on easy sustenance or even huge wealth coming from the spouse does that reflected in strong 11th house. Will that reflect privilege or is it strictly counted from outside-unrelated acquaintances. Also some people make distinctions based on astaka varga( AV) score of the house. So if the AV score of the 10th house is better than 11th, it means that native can have a strong career but no comparable gains to show for it. If on the other hand, 11th house is stronger than 10th it could mean that even from a weaker career/job one could create more wealth etc. As far as the other issue of 11th house and groups is concerned,here's what I have read. 11th house is an Aquarius related house, vedically ruled by Saturn and therefore a house of masses. Saturn here should very well for the same reason. Individualistic planets like Mars and Sun for example shouldn't do very well. There are problems with the native trying to run a group meet with a very personal style. Going by this logic Moon, Venus should do very well here. Am eager to know if the data supports these views. Shiv , Therese Hamilton <eastwest wrote: > > At 03:06 PM 5/20/08 +1000, Ron Day wrote: > >Hi Therese, > > > >I think you have just proved the Bhavat Bhavam principle. ie 11H is 6H > >from6H. This will have the flavour of 6H eg health, disease, tragedies, > healing. > >Planets in 11H aspect 5H so this could include tragedies involving children. > > Hi Ron, > > Thanks for your reply. Maybe not quite 'proved' the Bhavat Bhavam > principle, but given it some support. I hadn't even thought of that > principle in relation to the 11th, and was surprised at the tragedies. > > >The 11H is also 12H from 12H and the 12H relates to metaphysical, > >renunciation, strange phenomena etc. > > I'm going to check the 12th house the same way--maybe tomorrow. > > > The 11H is not popular for politicians but the 12H planets are good > >for politicians. especially Sun and Moon above the ascendant and near > >the 12Cusp. > > If the 12th is better for politicians, then McCain's 9:00 a.m. birth time > has that 12th house Sun--not near the cusp, however. Ascendant lord Mercury > is in the 12th, and 9th lord Venus is on the cusp of 12. I have to take a > look at the 11:00 am chart--haven't had time yet. > > Therese > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 Shiv... I just know that according to Light on Life by Robert Svaboda and Hart de Feuw (sp?) the 11th is supposed to be one of the best houses for the Sun, the others being 10th, 6th, and 3rd. It seems that a Sun in 11th shows that the person doesn't have to try all that hard to succeed. According to that same book the benefics are wasted in these houses. I've noticed that people with Jupiter in 10th aren't as successful as one would expect them to be ( even tho a lot of the astro. books say otherwise), what with J being benefic and 10th being the house of worldly success, angular and all. Another interesting thing...you'd think that J in 7th would show a great marriage, but I haven't found that to be true with many of the charts I've seen with that in it. ....Bettina _____ On Behalf Of Shiv Tuesday, May 20, 2008 8:34 AM Re: 11th house Hi all, This is an interesting discussion. Wanted to mention the following for your comments. I had so far known the following explanation: 11th house reflects material gains from the work/career/job etc. Vedically the explanation being, that 11th is the second from the 10th. But the idea of wealth/gains etc coming as undeserved/ not worked for privilege would contradict that. Is there a way that both these views can be assimilated? I also came across writings that said second house reflects the ability to maintain/sustain wealth in addition to, of course, first creating it ( 11th house matter). One can create wealth and squander it, in case of a weak second house for example. Also, there are many nuances. Say, a housewife or stay at home husband relies on easy sustenance or even huge wealth coming from the spouse does that reflected in strong 11th house. Will that reflect privilege or is it strictly counted from outside-unrelated acquaintances. Also some people make distinctions based on astaka varga( AV) score of the house. So if the AV score of the 10th house is better than 11th, it means that native can have a strong career but no comparable gains to show for it. If on the other hand, 11th house is stronger than 10th it could mean that even from a weaker career/job one could create more wealth etc. As far as the other issue of 11th house and groups is concerned,here's what I have read. 11th house is an Aquarius related house, vedically ruled by Saturn and therefore a house of masses. Saturn here should very well for the same reason. Individualistic planets like Mars and Sun for example shouldn't do very well. There are problems with the native trying to run a group meet with a very personal style. Going by this logic Moon, Venus should do very well here. Am eager to know if the data supports these views. Shiv @ <%40> , Therese Hamilton <eastwest wrote: > > At 03:06 PM 5/20/08 +1000, Ron Day wrote: > >Hi Therese, > > > >I think you have just proved the Bhavat Bhavam principle. ie 11H is 6H > >from6H. This will have the flavour of 6H eg health, disease, tragedies, > healing. > >Planets in 11H aspect 5H so this could include tragedies involving children. > > Hi Ron, > > Thanks for your reply. Maybe not quite 'proved' the Bhavat Bhavam > principle, but given it some support. I hadn't even thought of that > principle in relation to the 11th, and was surprised at the tragedies. > > >The 11H is also 12H from 12H and the 12H relates to metaphysical, > >renunciation, strange phenomena etc. > > I'm going to check the 12th house the same way--maybe tomorrow. > > > The 11H is not popular for politicians but the 12H planets are good > >for politicians. especially Sun and Moon above the ascendant and near > >the 12Cusp. > > If the 12th is better for politicians, then McCain's 9:00 a.m. birth time > has that 12th house Sun--not near the cusp, however. Ascendant lord Mercury > is in the 12th, and 9th lord Venus is on the cusp of 12. I have to take a > look at the 11:00 am chart--haven't had time yet. > > Therese > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 At 03:06 PM 5/20/08 +1000, Ron Day wrote: > >Sports is about competition another 6H signification. Hi Ron, Since there were only two people out of 42 with Sun (orb 7 deg from cusp) and Moon (orb 10 deg from cusp) in the 11th Bhava (equal house with cusp at center) who were sports professionls, my point was that we had to look elsewhere in the chart for their involvement in sports. No, I don't agree that competition comes under the 6th. That would be the 7th, as we can note in political charts during campaign years and charts of attorneys. Traditionally the 6th has to do with illness, infirmity, enmity, toil and disease. I've mentioned this book before, but it's too good not to keep to the forefront of recommended books: Deborah Houlding's THE HOUSES: TEMPLES OF THE SKY. Since Jyotish house meanings come from Hellenistic and Arabic astrology, this book is necessary for astrologers of any persuasion in my opinion. Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 At 08:08 AM 5/20/08 -0700, Bettina wrote: >Jimmy Carter, if his time was correct, also had 12th hs. Sun. Hi Bettina, In going through some files lately I came across a magazine note (The Mercury Hour) that the Hermetros channel through Phyllis Givens gave Carter's birth time as 8:08 a.m. Yes, a 12th hours Sun. Which reminds me that Mr. Karve from India could tell us Obama's and Hillary's birth times. >My mother (if her time is correct) has 11th Sun and lost her first child. >Also had one child with a physical disability. This reminded me to remember the effects of my Sun/Moon in 11th. Jyotish considers it very bad to be separated from one's chidren. My oldest daughter graduated from high scool + one year of Jr college and then took off to India for 20 years. Another daughter's behavior caused my husband and myself great emotional pain and court dates. She often saw us as 'enemies.' Luckily a third child made up for the other two. We all seem to get along now as long as we don't spend too much time together. >People with 12th hs Suns tend to want to be in control, don't know why this >is. I'll consider that when I work on the 12th house, later today I hope. Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 At 02:42 PM 5/20/08 -0700, Bettina wrote: >Shiv... > > >I just know that according to Light on Life by Robert Svaboda and Hart de >Feuw (sp?) the 11th is supposed to be one of the best houses for the Sun, >the others being 10th, 6th, and 3rd. It seems that a Sun in 11th shows >that the person doesn't have to try all that hard to succeed. According to >that same book the benefics are wasted in these houses. > >I've noticed that people with Jupiter in 10th aren't as successful as one >would expect them to be ( even tho a lot of the astro. books say otherwise), >what with J being benefic and 10th being the house of worldly success, >angular and all. Another interesting thing...you'd think that J in 7th would >show a great marriage, but I haven't found that to be true with many of the >charts I've seen with that in it. Hi Bettina, Jupiter in the 10th is in Capricorn's natural house, so Jupiter doesn't do well there. With the 9:00 a.m. birth time McCain has the solar return ruler Jupiter in the 10th. Hmmmm? I think sidereal astrolgers would give this a thumbs up, but Jupiter in that postion doesn't do well natally. Jupiter generally is great in the 4th, Cancer's natural house. That's Jupiter's position for George Lucas, creator of STAR WARS. According to Jyotish, Jupiter has Dig Bala (positional strength) in the 1st, so Jupiter has zero positional strength in the 7th. This is a house of Venus (Libra), and Venus is an enemy of Jupiter in Jyotish. Jupiter plays to the masses, but Venus likes a one-to-one relationship and devotion from the partner. Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 Has this Mr. Karve given Obama's and HRC's times? Do they fit with the ones accounced at the conference? That Cap. asc for BHO doesn't seem right to me, but what do I know. ....Bettina _____ On Behalf Of Therese Hamilton Tuesday, May 20, 2008 3:00 PM RE: RE: 11th house At 08:08 AM 5/20/08 -0700, Bettina wrote: >Jimmy Carter, if his time was correct, also had 12th hs. Sun. Hi Bettina, In going through some files lately I came across a magazine note (The Mercury Hour) that the Hermetros channel through Phyllis Givens gave Carter's birth time as 8:08 a.m. Yes, a 12th hours Sun. Which reminds me that Mr. Karve from India could tell us Obama's and Hillary's birth times. >My mother (if her time is correct) has 11th Sun and lost her first child. >Also had one child with a physical disability. This reminded me to remember the effects of my Sun/Moon in 11th. Jyotish considers it very bad to be separated from one's chidren. My oldest daughter graduated from high scool + one year of Jr college and then took off to India for 20 years. Another daughter's behavior caused my husband and myself great emotional pain and court dates. She often saw us as 'enemies.' Luckily a third child made up for the other two. We all seem to get along now as long as we don't spend too much time together. >People with 12th hs Suns tend to want to be in control, don't know why this >is. I'll consider that when I work on the 12th house, later today I hope. Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 At 03:34 PM 5/20/08 -0000, Shiv wrote: > >I had so far known the following explanation: 11th house reflects >material gains from the work/career/job etc. Vedically the explanation >being, that 11th is the second from the 10th. >But the idea of wealth/gains etc coming as undeserved/ not worked for >privilege would contradict that. Is there a way that both these views >can be assimilated? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Shiv, I had always understood that the 2nd reflected our own earnings, and the 11th reflected benefits from others rather than what we earned ourselves. This is certainly true in my case where I worked for a few years, but then did a lot of mostly unpaid astrological work including counseling. Somehow I could never combine astrology with money. My kind husband paid our bills through regular employment. (Dispositor of my 7th lord in the 11th.) >...Also some people make distinctions based on astaka varga( AV) score of >the house. So if the AV score of the 10th house is better than 11th, it >means that native can have a strong career but no comparable gains to >show for it. If on the other hand, 11th house is stronger than 10th it >could mean that even from a weaker career/job one could create more >wealth etc. It would be interesting to test this sometime with a number of charts with known birth times. >As far as the other issue of 11th house and groups is concerned,here's >what I have read. 11th house is an Aquarius related house, vedically >ruled by Saturn and therefore a house of masses. No, this is a tropical misunderstanding based on a wrong (according to siderealists, nonexistent) zodiac. It's been noted that tropical Aquarius is often the democrat, interested in equality. But that's sidereal Capricorn ruled by Saturn, the great leveler. So the 10th house, not the 11th. Aquarius has the traits of tropical Pisces. So we have the inner directed person who tends to be a loner. This is Uranus. Even Rob Hand has mentioned in HOROSCOPE SYMBOLS that Uranus and tropical Aqurius have little in common. I think he called them 'a worst match,' but I can't find that book right now. We can see from the small 11th house study that groups don't seem to be connected to the 11th--at least not in the Indian bhava system of houses. I believe the tropical astrologers are correct here: The western side of the chart (houses 5 through 10 or Leo through Capricorn) has to do with emphasis on 'others,' and the left side of the chart (11-4 or Aquarius through Cancer) gives more freedom to be oneself. this is a very ancient division of the zodiac that I've discussed on my web site. Symbolically cultural and duties of society (solar half of the zodiac) opposed to the personal life (lunar half of the zodiac). This generally works out via the houses which stand in for the signs. Using the signs alone won't be descriptive. Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 At 03:34 PM 5/20/08 -0700, you wrote: >Has this Mr. Karve given Obama's and HRC's times? Do they fit with the ones >accounced at the conference? That Cap. asc for BHO doesn't seem right to >me, but what do I know. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I don't know what is going on with Mr. Karve. He gave Princess Diana's birth time which checked out perfectly with solar returns. Somewhere he's probably given candidate birth times, but I'm not in contact with the group of astrologers who might know. Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 Hello Shiv, Bettina, and Therese, I read somewhere that Jupiter in a certain house indicates an area of greatest potential developed for the more evolved, or, greatest potential " to be " developed for the less evolved ones among us; and the sign is supposed to give us the clue. So, Jupiter is supposed to be sort of a " secret weapon " , if you learn how to use it. Would this explain why we don't always see Jupiter indicating success or good fortune in the area of house it is in? Warm regards, Felicia Bettina <chiria wrote: Shiv... I just know that according to Light on Life by Robert Svaboda and Hart de Feuw (sp?) the 11th is supposed to be one of the best houses for the Sun, the others being 10th, 6th, and 3rd. It seems that a Sun in 11th shows that the person doesn't have to try all that hard to succeed. According to that same book the benefics are wasted in these houses. I've noticed that people with Jupiter in 10th aren't as successful as one would expect them to be ( even tho a lot of the astro. books say otherwise), what with J being benefic and 10th being the house of worldly success, angular and all. Another interesting thing...you'd think that J in 7th would show a great marriage, but I haven't found that to be true with many of the charts I've seen with that in it. ....Bettina _____ On Behalf Of Shiv Tuesday, May 20, 2008 8:34 AM Re: 11th house Hi all, This is an interesting discussion. Wanted to mention the following for your comments. I had so far known the following explanation: 11th house reflects material gains from the work/career/job etc. Vedically the explanation being, that 11th is the second from the 10th. But the idea of wealth/gains etc coming as undeserved/ not worked for privilege would contradict that. Is there a way that both these views can be assimilated? I also came across writings that said second house reflects the ability to maintain/sustain wealth in addition to, of course, first creating it ( 11th house matter). One can create wealth and squander it, in case of a weak second house for example. Also, there are many nuances. Say, a housewife or stay at home husband relies on easy sustenance or even huge wealth coming from the spouse does that reflected in strong 11th house. Will that reflect privilege or is it strictly counted from outside-unrelated acquaintances. Also some people make distinctions based on astaka varga( AV) score of the house. So if the AV score of the 10th house is better than 11th, it means that native can have a strong career but no comparable gains to show for it. If on the other hand, 11th house is stronger than 10th it could mean that even from a weaker career/job one could create more wealth etc. As far as the other issue of 11th house and groups is concerned,here's what I have read. 11th house is an Aquarius related house, vedically ruled by Saturn and therefore a house of masses. Saturn here should very well for the same reason. Individualistic planets like Mars and Sun for example shouldn't do very well. There are problems with the native trying to run a group meet with a very personal style. Going by this logic Moon, Venus should do very well here. Am eager to know if the data supports these views. Shiv @ <%40> , Therese Hamilton <eastwest wrote: > > At 03:06 PM 5/20/08 +1000, Ron Day wrote: > >Hi Therese, > > > >I think you have just proved the Bhavat Bhavam principle. ie 11H is 6H > >from6H. This will have the flavour of 6H eg health, disease, tragedies, > healing. > >Planets in 11H aspect 5H so this could include tragedies involving children. > > Hi Ron, > > Thanks for your reply. Maybe not quite 'proved' the Bhavat Bhavam > principle, but given it some support. I hadn't even thought of that > principle in relation to the 11th, and was surprised at the tragedies. > > >The 11H is also 12H from 12H and the 12H relates to metaphysical, > >renunciation, strange phenomena etc. > > I'm going to check the 12th house the same way--maybe tomorrow. > > > The 11H is not popular for politicians but the 12H planets are good > >for politicians. especially Sun and Moon above the ascendant and near > >the 12Cusp. > > If the 12th is better for politicians, then McCain's 9:00 a.m. birth time > has that 12th house Sun--not near the cusp, however. Ascendant lord Mercury > is in the 12th, and 9th lord Venus is on the cusp of 12. I have to take a > look at the 11:00 am chart--haven't had time yet. > > Therese > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 At 04:09 PM 5/20/08 -0700, Felicia wrote: > > I read somewhere that Jupiter in a certain house indicates an area of greatest potential developed for the more evolved, or, greatest potential " to be " developed for the less evolved ones among us; and the sign is supposed to give us the clue. So, Jupiter is supposed to be sort of a " secret weapon " , if you learn how to use it. > > Would this explain why we don't always see Jupiter indicating success or good fortune in the area of house it is in? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hi Felicia, That's a tropical perspective, and since I don't read charts that way (Jupiter by house is our greatest potential, etc.), I don't have an answer for that idea. I believe the entire chart shows our potential--no I don't think I'd accept the idea of Jupiter by house suggesting our greatest potential. That would be only 12 'greatest potentials' (12 houses) for everyone born with Jupiter in a particular sign. Some tropical astrologer made that up, perhaps after a joint or two. Much of what's in the tropical texts is air fluff. Sidereal has its share of air fluff as well, but at least Jyotish has rules that are used to judge practical specifics. Do these rules work? Only research will tell. Blessings, Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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