Guest guest Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 Umesh ji, good to start with the basics. i think astrology is the study of tendencies signified by planatary positions in a horoscope and their potential prospects. also the extent as what amount of free will is allowed to the individual and how much is he tied down by the prarabadh and sanchit karmas. important term is tendency. tendency shows the capacity which might or might not be exploited by the native. astrology is a tool to decipher this tendency to help and guide the native. astronomy is a tool. what sanat ji is doing is that he is looking and researching upon the finger that points towards the object. but in the process he missed the object totally by fixing his concentration upon the tools only. regards kulbir On 1/26/08, Umesh Sharma <mudit982001 wrote: Dear Sanat ji,What is the defination of astrology in your way?RegardsUmesh Sharma , " sanat2221 " <sanatkumar_jain wrote:>> > Dear Bhardwaj Ji,> Namaskar,> Thanks for your comments. > > >>>> I FOUND ALL THE ANSWERS. STILL I WAS NOT SATISFIED WITH THE > TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGICAL SYSTEMS. BY THE GRACE OF GOD SOME GOOD > FRIENDS HAS INTRODUCED ME TO THIS NEW SYSTEM OF ASTROLOGY A FEW YEARS > BACK. I AM HAPPY THAT I HAVE BEEN TO THIS SYSTEM. <<<<<< > > If you find socalled all the answers then why are you not satisfied. > It means you have not found any logical answers. Thanks for your > admission. Again LK is not a system of astrology (predictive) hence > it is neither astronomy nor predictive astrology. It is based on > horoscope prepared under astrology (which in turn is based on > astronomy) with change of sign without any logical answer either > astrologically or astronomically or logically or scientifically. As > you are happy in this system hence you must answer these basic > questions.> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Yes, but if you take some thing from other branch then > either you> must know about it or may be prepared to answer the questions raised.> Thus if you are leaving rashi / nachatra then why are you (You means> LK. In future too take it as LK) using Aries sign in ascendant, and > how you have worked out that Saturn / mars etc are evil planets, and> how you have worked out that so and so planet can be befooled by so> and so colour. Actually all this tradition have been borrowed from > planetary astrology.> > FOR LEARNING ANY SYSTEM YOU MUST FIRST BECOME A PART OF THAT SYSTEM > LEAVING A PART THE PRESET MIND. I AM NOT TERMING ANY SYSTEM WRONG. IT > IS ONES OWN LEVEL OF SATISFACTION. YOU ARE ACTUALY NOT BEEN FAMILIAR > TO LALKITAB SYSTEM. EVERY PLANET IN THIS SYSTEM CAN BE EVIL OR GOOD. > I DONT FIND IT IS WRITTEN IN ANY BOOK THAT A PLANET CAN BE > BEFOOLED.BY THE WAY WHEN YOU DONT TREAT PLANET LIVE THEN YOUR > QUESTION OF FOOLING THE PLANET SHOULD NOT ARISE. DISCUSSION CAN ONLY > BE TAKEN ON THE SAME PRINCIPLE OR SUBJECT. YOUR PRINCIPLES ARE > DIFFERENT THAN OURS. IT IS BETTER FOR US TO KEEP ON INDIVIDUAL > STUDIES. <<<<<<<<<<<<<> > I am always prepared to be a part of system but at least either it > must be scientific or logical or may be totally independent means it > may not have borrowed some thing from other branch which is already > in question (and you have also admitted that you are not satisfied > with planetary astrology.). Yes it is not written that a planet can > be befooled but by applying some remedial totke are you not trying to > liquidate the socalled evil effect of a planet, whereas planet > (except sun which is star not a planet) do not have any rays or any > cosmic effect then what are you curing. > IF FOR sake of discussion we may agree that planet have some rays > which you (LK) is curing even then at the most you can cure some > bodily (physical) problem but how you can change his future which > would be net result of his action, ability beside the action and > ability of so many others who are free to do any thing.> > >>>>>>>>>. But you can answer it under > astrology and clarify as to why Rahu was 11/12 degrees away from the> point of eclipse and so on. Otherwise placement of Rahu and remedy by> LK would not be wrong. Because Rahu may not be there, where you are > placing and treating him.> > DEGREES DOES NOT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE IN LALKITAB. WE DONT USE DEGREES > MINUTELY HERE. ONLY USE OF ASTRONOMY IN LALKITAB IS THE ASCENDENT, > THAT IS TOO TO FIX THE PLANETARY POSITION. STILL IT IS OPEN FOR > ASTROLOGER TO CORRRECT THE POSITION OF PLANETS AS PER SYMPTOMS EXISTS > IN THE NATIVE LIFE. THIS IS SCIENCE OF LK. <<<<<<<<<<> > NO, if as per astrology Rahu is say 5 degree of Taurus (with > ascendant Aries so that you may not again change ascendant) then in > LK it would be planced in 2nd house. If there is error of 12 deg. as > I have pointed out then astrologically it would be in Aries sign. But > how you are going to shift it to Aries when astrogers are not > changing it to Aries. Thus you are curing as if Rahu is in 2nd house > irrespective of degrees. Secondly do not use word science because > then you may have some scientific or logical answers.> > >>>>>>> It has nothing to do as to whether you know Sanskrit or not. > Because> when you are following some thing of sages it means you think that > they are correct hence you must be prepared to answer any querry or> read further because you are following something only after reading> translation so what is the harm in answering after reading some > further translation.> IT IS ONE'S OWN IDEOLOGY. I AM IN THE OPINION THAT THE EPICS/BOOKS > SHALL BE READ IN THE LANGUAGE IN WHICH IT IS WRITTEN BY AUTHOR. > TRANSLATERS PUT THEIR OWN MIND IN THE TRANSLATION HENCE MAKES THE > USEFUL AS WASTE SOMETIMES. I KNOW THE LANGUAGE IN WHICH THE LALKITAB > IS WRITTEN HENCE I FIND THIS SYSTEM MORE FAMILIAR AND USEFUL.THIS > STUDY IS SIMPLE AND DOES NOT REQUIRE THAT HUGE MATHEMETICAL > CALCULATIONS. <<<<<<<<<<<> > Again it is not correct. Are we not studied many scientific > principles in translated Hindi or English even if original verse may > be in Greek, Polish or Spanish languages. So your stand do not have > any substance except that LK system is a parasite which take half > planetary astrology and mixed with some totke that too without any > scientific or logical answer as to how pouring of oil and so on is > going to change the fate of an individual who is surrounded by many > persons. You have liked it because in this you have nothing to do > except some totkebaaji. SORRY> > >>>>>Terming any research wrong on the basis of any translated> material is not justified as far as me is concerned. <<<<<<<< > Then how terming any translated material as right may be justified.> TRY TO READ THE ORIGINAL AVAILABLE MATERIAL. IF ONE IS SO ANXIOUS HE > CAN LEARN THAT LANGUAGE.> 'WHY TO SEE FROM OTHERS EYES, WHEN ONE HAS HIS OWN EYES > INTACT'.<<<<<<<> > Agree, It means to whom you are advising some totke must read LK > themselves and do not rely upon on your advise. Because they have > both eyes. If it is so then you must advise your clients to read > original (not translated) LK himself. I hope now you will do like > this.> > >>>>>>>It is for the user to accept or reject as per there> experiences. <<<<< > No, it is not the experience by which some one goes to any pathy.> Because experience here is not personal but social. But if some one> say that you are going to wrong pathy then one must rethink. In the > same way when scientist say that> YOU MUST JUDGE THE CALLIBRE OF THE PERSON WHO SAY THAT 'YOU ARE > WRONG'. SCIENTIST HAD BEEN SAYING FOR THE LAST 50 YEARS THAT BCG > INJECTION IS GOOD TO SAY GOODBYE TO TB. NOW WHAT HAPPENS THEY SAY 'IT > IS USELESS'. IT IS THEIR EXPERIENCE WHICH CHANGES THEIR VERSION.> IN MY VIEWS 'ONES OWN EXPERIENCE RULES OVER AND ABOVE WHAT PEOPLE > SAY'.> > Scientists are right when they say that some inj. Is not good now > because bacterial has changed his structure. But LK has some > reasons behind evil effect of a planet and reasons for remedy except > psychological effect on an individual who are so simple minded that > any Baba can befool him (you may have gone through many news of > befooling the simple minded people.) So if you like to misguide (if > you do not like the word befooling) simple minded persons then > what I can say.> > >>>>> Do you believe the concept of solar system or you believe that> Earth is stationary and flat and so on……………..> CAN YOU DEFINE WORD 'SCIENCE'. > I BELIEVE EARTH IS FLAT AND STATIONARY AS FAR AS I AM ON EARTH. WHEN > I GO TO SPACE THEN I WILL SAY EARTH IS MOVING AND ROUND. IT IS LAW OF > RELATIVITY. > ASTROLOGY IS BASED UPON SOLAR SYSTEM. EVERY HUMAN BEING IS AFFECTED > BY THESE PLANETS.> YOU KNOW THERE IS NO PLANET NAMELY RAHU & KETU IN SOLAR SYSTEM. EVEN > THEN YOU ARE DISUCSSING RAHU & KETU. BECAUSE THESE POSITIONS OF MOON > ORBIT AFFECT THE PLANETARY ENERGY. <<<<<<<<<<< > > Science is a systematic study of anything with some logical answers. > You can not say both ways that Earth is flat as well as spherical and > stationary as well as moving. Our sages were scientist so long they > were studying and defining some principle on the basis of flat and > stationary Earth with the concept that Sun is near and Moon is far > away (for detail you may read my book). But when it is proved wrong > though after thousands of year then there is no question of > following the principles based on some old science. Where it is > written that astrology is based on solar system (which concept is > only 400 years old). How every human being may be effected by planets > when they do not have any cosmic effect (except Sun). In primitive > time they were considered as living deities hence it was presumed > that they may have effect. Can you explain which type of effect these > planet do have, which was refereed by our sages. Even they were not > awared with the Graviatational and magnetic concept of planets. Yes > I know that there is no planet like Rahu Ketu. And I am discussing it > because you are curing them in LK. Where it was written by any sages > that Moon orbit effect the planetary energy (thorough RKetu). They > were even not awared that orbits (sun and moon) intersects each > other.> > >>>>>>We consider each and every surroundings whether living or> nonliving, stationery or movable has an effect on human behavior. > <<<<<<> Where it is written in any scripture. Scientifically, a Car standing> nearby you may have more gravitational effect then a planet.> WHY ONE WEAR CLOTHES OF DIFFERENT DESIGN. WHY ONE WANT THAT HIS CAR > BE SO SHINY. WHY ONE WANT THAT HIS HOUSE BE LOOKED SO CLEAN AND > BETTER. THESE ALL ARE NON LIVING.> BECAUSE IT AFFECTS OUR MIND. STILL YOU SAY THAT THESE DOES NOT AFFECT > HUMAN BEING. CAN YOU LIVE WITH DEAD. EVEN THE SCRIPTURE ARE AFFECTING > YOU SO MUCH AND MAKE YOU RESTLESS EVEN THESE ARE NON LIVING. > WHY WANT SUN ENERGY IF PLANET IS DEAD. > IT IS ONES OWN WAY OF TERMING THE LIFE. YOUR WAY IS DIFFERENT FROM > OURS. ENJOY YOUR LIFE AND LET US ENJOY OURS. > > So you are washing the planets moving at a distance of crore of KM > with spoonful of oil etc. You are not admitting in clear words that > planetary phobia is effecting the mind because such phobia has been > created in the minds of general public. Hence it affects mind and > now you are curing his psychological phobia by some LK totke instead > of teaching him that there is neither effect nor cure nor LK is > going to change his future. IN other words you are infusing a phobia > and then curing it .> > > >>>>>These two points (soul and planets) are totally not linked with > each> other. And continue to keep watch scientific research. Are they not> creating human beings in test tube and so on again we will left our> main point> I FEEL YOU HAVE NO SCIETIFIC(YOUR TERM) ANSWER TO THIS. THEY ARE > CREATING TEST TUBES WITH HUMAN EMBRIYO. LET THEM MAKE DEAD ALIVE OT > MAKE HUMAN BEING NEVER DIE.TILL THEN WE HAVE TO BELIEVE WHAT WE > THINK. YOU MAY DELINK SOUL AND PLANETS, BUT THESE ARE UNIVERSALLY > LINKED. <<<<<<<> Whether scientist are able or not in doing some thing, it is not > going to make a difference on astrological principles and LK. So > linking of these two things is not logical and it is only a tactics > to divert the main point.> > >>>>>> No, it is not going to knit well the family. If instead of > thinking> Sukra as your wife and pleasing that planet, It would be much better> if you try to please your wife. Likewise you can try to please> yourself (instead of Sun), Teacher, father (instead of Brihspati) and> so on. Thus family will be well knit. And more over how a planetary > body of thousands/laks km in diameter is going to locate your curd,> milk, oil and so on and will amend himself by changing his effect so> that it may left you and grab your neighbour.> > IT IS ONE OWN WAY OF EXPERIENCING. HAVE YOU EVER READ PANCHTANTRA > STORIES. THEY AFFECT MORE THAN A TEACHERS LECTURE. I DONT FIND IN THE > BOOKS THAT YOU CAN GRAB YOUR NEIGHBOUR BY CURD OR ANY METHOD. > STUDY THE BOOK, USE THE SYSTEM, EXPERIENCE IT THEN GIVE YOUR > FINDINGS. THIS IS A BETTER WAY OF CRITICIZING.> ONLY QUESTION IS EXPLOITATION OF INNOCENT BY LUSTY PEOPLE. IF YOU > STUDY A SYSTEM THEN AND ONLY THEN YOU CAN MAKE PEOPLE AWARE THAT HOW > THEY ARE BEING EXPLOITED BY UNSCRUPLOUS PERSONS. <<<<<<<<<< > > Panchatantra stories were created to teach innocent public moreover > it has nothing to do with astrology and LK. I am not saying that you > are going to grab your neighbour with curd etc.But I mean to say > that by such totke you are thinking to liquidate the socalled evil > effect of planet and planet may grab those neighbour who is not doing > such totke.> > >>>>II DONT REQUIRE YOU BOOK NOW. PRESENTLY I AM STUDYING MORE > IMPORTANT > SYSTEM. REGARDING YOUR KUNDLI ,IN MY OPINION, IN FACT WHAT I FEEL IS > THAT > AFTER 35 YEARS OF YOUR STUDY, YOU HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO DECODE YOUR > KUNDLI. I INVITE YOU TO STUDY THIS SYSTEM FOR 3 YEARS SO, YOU WILL > FIND ALL THE ANSWERS. <<<<<<<<> > How I can decode (not like many astrologers) when principles of > astrology are not formulated on correct concept and all of them are > based on primitive concept. If you have answers then why don't you > come forward. If you will answer then definitely I will spent 3 > years. > > > >>>>>> NO YOU HAVE NOT GONE THROUGH THIS BOOK. YOU MAY HAVE GONE > TRANSLATED > MATERIALS WHICH DEPICTS MORE WRONG THAN RIGHT.THESE TRANSLATED > MATERIALS ARE INCOMPLETE, WRONG AND ARE WRONGLY TRANSLATED. WE HAVE > TO PUT SOME OF THE BEST TRANSLATED MATERIAL FREE OF CHARGE ON NET. > THIS MATERIAL STILL NOT FULLY CORRECT BUT IS MORE THAN 70% NEAR TO > CORRECT. YOU CAN REFER TO THAT MATERIAL FOR FLAVOUR. YOU MAY FIND IT > UNIQUE. AS YOU READ THE BOOK YOU WILL FIND THE LOGIC. WRITER HAS NOT > HIDE NAY THING WHICH CAME TO HIS MIND. THESE ARE VERY INTERESTING AND > GOOD BOOKS TO STUDY PREFERABLY IF YOU KNOW URDU YOU READ > ORIGINALS.THESE ARE PUT ONLINE INTO THE WEB FOR READING. WE ALSO > PROVIDE FREE CD OF THESE BOOKS.<<<<<<<<<> > If all translated books are wrong then you may atleast say so with > pointing out as to where they are wrong and what is correctly > written by the writer in 1952 edition.> > > >>>>>>> Presently It will not be possible for me to discuss > this matter any further. we may discuss it on some other time when > discussion on LK system ends.<<<<<<<<> It is always your right to discontinue any discussion. But it is > not my right. I am always prepared to read any thing and prepared > to change my scientific concept otherwise after studying and > preparing so many softwares of astrology, I would not have changed > my way that astrololgy is bogus.> > Thanks for your discussion > Best regards> Sanat> 0751-2626868> sanatkumar_jain > (Readers may write to me on my email sanatkumar_jain) > > > > > , " Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj " > <nirbhar@> wrote:> >> > Astrology a science or myth> > > > Dear Sanat Ji,> > I will try to give the answer point wise. My answers are in Caps> > > > Let us move further with our views. Though you have left many points> > untouched from my 1st and 2nd mail, but it is always your right to> > answer on some points and left others. But I will try to answer your> > points. Sorry for any adverse comments. > > > > AS I ALREADY SAID THAT THIS GROUP IS PRESENTLY DISCUSSING LALKITAB, > > IT IS NOT REQUIRED TO GIVE ANSWERS BECAUSE THESE ARE NOT USEFUL IN > > THE STUDY OF LALKITAB. I DONT FIND ANY ADVERSITY ON YOUR COMMENTS. > > > > >>>>>>when I completed my graduation(Rishi) in astrology course in> > the institute.<<<<<<<> > This is the main problem which is not allowing you to review whole> > situation with new angle. Though these points came to your mind> > before completing the course but you have not clarified those points> > during the completion of course.> > DEAR SANAT JI, I STUDIED AND STUDY EVERY SUBJECT UNORTHODOX WAY. IT > > IS MY WAY OF TAKING A SUBJECT.YOURS SEEMS TO THE SAME, MAY BE > LITTLE > > BIT DIFFERENT. I STUDIED THE TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGY AS WELL AS > > ASTRONOMY.I FOUND ALL THE ANSWERS. STILL I WAS NOT SATISFIED WITH > THE > > TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGICAL SYSTEMS. BY THE GRACE OF GOD SOME GOOD > > FRIENDS HAS INTRODUCED ME TO THIS NEW SYSTEM OF ASTROLOGY A FEW > YEARS > > BACK. I AM HAPPY THAT I HAVE BEEN TO THIS SYSTEM. > > >>>>>>…….We term these astrologers as 'Postmortem> > Astrologers',>>>>>>>>> > Good comment.> > >>>>>>> ………It means that we should keep apart what we read so far in> > other system of astrology.<<<<<<<<> > Yes, but if you take some thing from other branch then either you> > must know about it or may be prepared to answer the questions > raised.> > Thus if you are leaving rashi / nachatra then why are you (You means> > LK. In future too take it as LK) using Aries sign in ascendant, and> > how you have worked out that Saturn / mars etc are evil planets, and> > how you have worked out that so and so planet can be befooled by so> > and so colour. Actually all this tradition have been borrowed from> > planetary astrology.> > > > FOR LEARNING ANY SYSTEM YOU MUST FIRST BECOME A PART OF THAT SYSTEM > > LEAVING A PART THE PRESET MIND. I AM NOT TERMING ANY SYSTEM WRONG. > IT > > IS ONES OWN LEVEL OF SATISFACTION. YOU ARE ACTUALY NOT BEEN > FAMILIAR > > TO LALKITAB SYSTEM. EVERY PLANET IN THIS SYSTEM CAN BE EVIL OR > GOOD. > > I DONT FIND IT IS WRITTEN IN ANY BOOK THAT A PLANET CAN BE > > BEFOOLED.BY THE WAY WHEN YOU DONT TREAT PLANET LIVE THEN YOUR > > QUESTION OF FOOLING THE PLANET SHOULD NOT ARISE. DISCUSSION CAN > ONLY > > BE TAKEN ON THE SAME PRINCIPLE OR SUBJECT. YOUR PRINCIPLES ARE > > DIFFERENT THAN OURS. IT IS BETTER FOR US TO KEEP ON INDIVIDUAL > > STUDIES. > > > > >>>>>>>Regarding other queries of eclipse etc,it is a chapter of> > astronomy and every answer lies there. <<<<<<<< > > > > Why astronomy, now you are using science. Eclipse etc were part of> > astrology and they are still part of astrology. Though scientist> > classified it as astronomy. Let them. But you can answer it under > > astrology and clarify as to why Rahu was 11/12 degrees away from the> > point of eclipse and so on. Otherwise placement of Rahu and remedy > by> > LK would not be wrong. Because Rahu may not be there, where you are> > placing and treating him.> > > > DEGREES DOES NOT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE IN LALKITAB. WE DONT USE > DEGREES > > MINUTELY HERE. ONLY USE OF ASTRONOMY IN LALKITAB IS THE ASCENDENT, > > THAT IS TOO TO FIX THE PLANETARY POSITION. STILL IT IS OPEN FOR > > ASTROLOGER TO CORRRECT THE POSITION OF PLANETS AS PER SYMPTOMS > EXISTS > > IN THE NATIVE LIFE. > > THIS IS SCIENCE OF LK. > > > > >>>>>>> what our ancient edicts say about it, I> > cannot comment upon it as I do not know Sanskrit and I have not read> > any original books because of lack of Sanskrit knowledge. <<<<<<<<> > It has nothing to do as to whether you know Sanskrit or not. Because> > when you are following some thing of sages it means you think that> > they are correct hence you must be prepared to answer any querry or> > read further because you are following something only after reading> > translation so what is the harm in answering after reading some> > further translation.> > IT IS ONE'S OWN IDEOLOGY. I AM IN THE OPINION THAT THE EPICS/BOOKS > > SHALL BE READ IN THE LANGUAGE IN WHICH IT IS WRITTEN BY AUTHOR. > > TRANSLATERS PUT THEIR OWN MIND IN THE TRANSLATION HENCE MAKES THE > > USEFUL AS WASTE SOMETIMES. I KNOW THE LANGUAGE IN WHICH THE > LALKITAB > > IS WRITTEN HENCE I FIND THIS SYSTEM MORE FAMILIAR AND USEFUL.THIS > > STUDY IS SIMPLE AND DOES NOT REQUIRE THAT HUGE MATHEMETICAL > > CALCULATIONS. > > >>>>>Terming any research wrong on the basis of any translated > > material is not justified as far as me is concerned. <<<<<<<<> > Then how terming any translated material as right may be justified.> > TRY TO READ THE ORIGINAL AVAILABLE MATERIAL. IF ONE IS SO ANXIOUS > HE > > CAN LEARN THAT LANGUAGE.> > 'WHY TO SEE FROM OTHERS EYES, WHEN ONE HAS HIS OWN EYES INTACT'.> > > > >>>>>>>It is for the user to accept or reject as per there > > experiences. <<<<<> > No, it is not the experience by which some one goes to any pathy.> > Because experience here is not personal but social. But if some one> > say that you are going to wrong pathy then one must rethink. In the> > same way when scientist say that> > YOU MUST JUDGE THE CALLIBRE OF THE PERSON WHO SAY THAT 'YOU ARE > > WRONG'. SCIENTIST HAD BEEN SAYING FOR THE LAST 50 YEARS THAT BCG > > INJECTION IS GOOD TO SAY GOODBYE TO TB. NOW WHAT HAPPENS THEY > SAY 'IT > > IS USELESS'. IT IS THEIR EXPERIENCE WHICH CHANGES THEIR VERSION.> > IN MY VIEWS 'ONES OWN EXPERIENCE RULES OVER AND ABOVE WHAT PEOPLE > > SAY'.> > > > >>>>>planets as dead dudes <<<<<> > then why don't you rethink and come out with some solid scientific> > proof. Do you believe the concept of solar system or you believe > that> > Earth is stationary and flat and so on……………..> > CAN YOU DEFINE WORD 'SCIENCE'.> > I BELIEVE EARTH IS FLAT AND STATIONARY AS FAR AS I AM ON EARTH. > WHEN > > I GO TO SPACE THEN I WILL SAY EARTH IS MOVING AND ROUND. IT IS LAW > OF > > RELATIVITY. > > ASTROLOGY IS BASED UPON SOLAR SYSTEM. EVERY HUMAN BEING IS AFFECTED > > BY THESE PLANETS.> > YOU KNOW THERE IS NO PLANET NAMELY RAHU & KETU IN SOLAR SYSTEM. > EVEN > > THEN YOU ARE DISUCSSING RAHU & KETU. BECAUSE THESE POSITIONS OF > MOON > > ORBIT AFFECT THE PLANETARY ENERGY. > > >>>>>>We consider each and every surroundings whether living or > > nonliving, stationery or movable has an effect on human behavior.> > <<<<<<> > > > Where it is written in any scripture. Scientifically, a Car standing> > nearby you may have more gravitational effect then a planet. > > WHY ONE WEAR CLOTHES OF DIFFERENT DESIGN. WHY ONE WANT THAT HIS CAR > > BE SO SHINY. WHY ONE WANT THAT HIS HOUSE BE LOOKED SO CLEAN AND > > BETTER. THESE ALL ARE NON LIVING.> > BECAUSE IT AFFECTS OUR MIND. STILL YOU SAY THAT THESE DOES NOT > AFFECT > > HUMAN BEING. CAN YOU LIVE WITH DEAD. EVEN THE SCRIPTURE ARE > AFFECTING > > YOU SO MUCH AND MAKE YOU RESTLESS EVEN THESE ARE NON LIVING. > > WHY WANT SUN ENERGY IF PLANET IS DEAD. > > IT IS ONES OWN WAY OF TERMING THE LIFE. YOUR WAY IS DIFFERENT FROM > > OURS. ENJOY YOUR LIFE AND LET US ENJOY OURS. > > >>>>>It may be your own experience that these planets do not effect> > any body. This debate continue to exist as long as the scientists> > don't make human being in laboratory and keep the atma or soul in> > their control. <<<<<<<<< > > These two points (soul and planets) are totally not linked with each> > other. And continue to keep watch scientific research. Are they not> > creating human beings in test tube and so on again we will left our> > main point> > I FEEL YOU HAVE NO SCIETIFIC(YOUR TERM) ANSWER TO THIS. THEY ARE > > CREATING TEST TUBES WITH HUMAN EMBRIYO. LET THEM MAKE DEAD ALIVE OT > > MAKE HUMAN BEING NEVER DIE.TILL THEN WE HAVE TO BELIEVE WHAT WE > > THINK. YOU MAY DELINK SOUL AND PLANETS, BUT THESE ARE UNIVERSALLY > > LINKED. > > > > >>>>>>As per Lalkitab theory if one consider-Sun as his own soul & > > body, the father/dada as -Brihaspati(Guru), Moon as mother or mother> > like , Mercury as sister,daughter or Bhua, Mars as Brother, Shukkar> > as Wife or husband, Saturn as Chacha, rahu as Sasur, Ketu as Son, he> > is not doing any sin. This will not harm the society, it will rather> > help to knit well the harmony in the families.>>>>>>> > No, it is not going to knit well the family. If instead of thinking> > Sukra as your wife and pleasing that planet, It would be much better> > if you try to please your wife. Likewise you can try to please> > yourself (instead of Sun), Teacher, father (instead of Brihspati) > and> > so on. Thus family will be well knit. And more over how a planetary> > body of thousands/laks km in diameter is going to locate your curd,> > milk, oil and so on and will amend himself by changing his effect so> > that it may left you and grab your neighbour.> > IT IS ONE OWN WAY OF EXPERIENCING. HAVE YOU EVER READ PANCHTANTRA > > STORIES. THEY AFFECT MORE THAN A TEACHERS LECTURE. I DONT FIND IN > THE > > BOOKS THAT YOU CAN GRAB YOUR NEIGHBOUR BY CURD OR ANY METHOD. > > STUDY THE BOOK, USE THE SYSTEM, EXPERIENCE IT THEN GIVE YOUR > > FINDINGS. THIS IS A BETTER WAY OF CRITICIZING. > > ONLY QUESTION IS EXPLOITATION OF INNOCENT BY LUSTY PEOPLE. IF YOU > > STUDY A SYSTEM THEN AND ONLY THEN YOU CAN MAKE PEOPLE AWARE THAT > HOW > > THEY ARE BEING EXPLOITED BY UNSCRUPLOUS PERSONS. > > > > >>>>>>…. therefore it is a waste of time to> > keep on discussing such useless data.>>>>>>>>> > > > It is your right to stop this interaction. > > YES, YOU ARE RIGHT. > > >>>>I have seen the 'Eskain Kundli " and truly speaking I could not> > understand the contents of the kundli.<<<<<<> > This kundli was devised to cover all astrological principles so that> > their may not be any possibility to get some escape route from any> > final result But even despite this that is all sort of pathological> > examination ie. Blood test, xray, scan and so on. there is not a > true> > result. You have to read my original book " Jyotish kitna sahi kitna> > galat " for knowing in detail. Though hints have been given in the> > horoscope it self.> > I DONT REQUIRE YOU BOOK NOW. PRESENTLY I AM STUDYING MORE IMPORTANT > > SYSTEM. > > REGARDING YOUR KUNDLI ,IN MY OPINION, IN FACT WHAT I FEEL IS THAT > > AFTER 35 YEARS OF YOUR STUDY, YOU HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO DECODE YOUR > > KUNDLI. I INVITE YOU TO STUDY THIS SYSTEM FOR 3 YEARS SO, YOU WILL > > FIND ALL THE ANSWERS. > > >>>>>> you have a research based mind and Lalkitab requires> > such types of person to explore it. It is welcome step if you start > > studying this system and bring your research out.>>>>>>>> > I have already gone through LK. But mother of all sort of> > predictive / remedial measure is planetary astrology. Other branches> > have adopted some portion of planetary astrology. Yes I am ready to> > research in any direction, because I am totally open minded but> > there must be some logical reasoning where I could move. If you will> > go through my book and find some point where I must move then I am> > ready to move.> > NO YOU HAVE NOT GONE THROUGH THIS BOOK. YOU MAY HAVE GONE > TRANSLATED > > MATERIALS WHICH DEPICTS MORE WRONG THAN RIGHT.THESE TRANSLATED > > MATERIALS ARE INCOMPLETE, WRONG AND ARE WRONGLY TRANSLATED. WE > HAVE > > TO PUT SOME OF THE BEST TRANSLATED MATERIAL FREE OF CHARGE ON NET. > > THIS MATERIAL STILL NOT FULLY CORRECT BUT IS MORE THAN 70% NEAR TO > > CORRECT. YOU CAN REFER TO THAT MATERIAL FOR FLAVOUR. YOU MAY FIND > IT > > UNIQUE. AS YOU READ THE BOOK YOU WILL FIND THE LOGIC. WRITER HAS > NOT > > HIDE NAY THING WHICH CAME TO HIS MIND. THESE ARE VERY INTERESTING > AND > > GOOD BOOKS TO STUDY PREFERABLY IF YOU KNOW URDU YOU READ > > ORIGINALS.THESE ARE PUT ONLINE INTO THE WEB FOR READING. WE ALSO > > PROVIDE FREE CD OF THESE BOOKS. > > Dear Sanat Ji, Presently It will not be possible for me to discuss > > this matter any further. we may discuss it on some other time when > > discussion on LK system ends.> > I consider you an intelligent and unorthodox student of astrology. > I > > wish you read this system and write books of your findings.> > Best regards> > Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 Dear Sanat Ji, Please choose some other platform to sell your book. We dont require either your book your ideas in our studies.Few of our members had already a chat with you and know your callibre. Your callibre is much more than ours. It may take another 35 years or more for us to reach your callibre. Hence we are unable to discuss this issue any more. We wish to have discussion only on lalkitab. If you are intrested you are welocme. regards Nirmal , " sanat2221 " <sanatkumar_jain wrote: > > > Dear Bhardwaj Ji, > Namaskar, > Thanks for your comments. > > >>>> I FOUND ALL THE ANSWERS. STILL I WAS NOT SATISFIED WITH THE > TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGICAL SYSTEMS. BY THE GRACE OF GOD SOME GOOD > FRIENDS HAS INTRODUCED ME TO THIS NEW SYSTEM OF ASTROLOGY A FEW YEARS > BACK. I AM HAPPY THAT I HAVE BEEN TO THIS SYSTEM. <<<<<< > > If you find socalled all the answers then why are you not satisfied. > It means you have not found any logical answers. Thanks for your > admission. Again LK is not a system of astrology (predictive) hence > it is neither astronomy nor predictive astrology. It is based on > horoscope prepared under astrology (which in turn is based on > astronomy) with change of sign without any logical answer either > astrologically or astronomically or logically or scientifically. As > you are happy in this system hence you must answer these basic > questions. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Yes, but if you take some thing from other branch then > either you > must know about it or may be prepared to answer the questions raised. > Thus if you are leaving rashi / nachatra then why are you (You means > LK. In future too take it as LK) using Aries sign in ascendant, and > how you have worked out that Saturn / mars etc are evil planets, and > how you have worked out that so and so planet can be befooled by so > and so colour. Actually all this tradition have been borrowed from > planetary astrology. > > FOR LEARNING ANY SYSTEM YOU MUST FIRST BECOME A PART OF THAT SYSTEM > LEAVING A PART THE PRESET MIND. I AM NOT TERMING ANY SYSTEM WRONG. IT > IS ONES OWN LEVEL OF SATISFACTION. YOU ARE ACTUALY NOT BEEN FAMILIAR > TO LALKITAB SYSTEM. EVERY PLANET IN THIS SYSTEM CAN BE EVIL OR GOOD. > I DONT FIND IT IS WRITTEN IN ANY BOOK THAT A PLANET CAN BE > BEFOOLED.BY THE WAY WHEN YOU DONT TREAT PLANET LIVE THEN YOUR > QUESTION OF FOOLING THE PLANET SHOULD NOT ARISE. DISCUSSION CAN ONLY > BE TAKEN ON THE SAME PRINCIPLE OR SUBJECT. YOUR PRINCIPLES ARE > DIFFERENT THAN OURS. IT IS BETTER FOR US TO KEEP ON INDIVIDUAL > STUDIES. <<<<<<<<<<<<< > > I am always prepared to be a part of system but at least either it > must be scientific or logical or may be totally independent means it > may not have borrowed some thing from other branch which is already > in question (and you have also admitted that you are not satisfied > with planetary astrology.). Yes it is not written that a planet can > be befooled but by applying some remedial totke are you not trying to > liquidate the socalled evil effect of a planet, whereas planet > (except sun which is star not a planet) do not have any rays or any > cosmic effect then what are you curing. > IF FOR sake of discussion we may agree that planet have some rays > which you (LK) is curing even then at the most you can cure some > bodily (physical) problem but how you can change his future which > would be net result of his action, ability beside the action and > ability of so many others who are free to do any thing. > > >>>>>>>>>. But you can answer it under > astrology and clarify as to why Rahu was 11/12 degrees away from the > point of eclipse and so on. Otherwise placement of Rahu and remedy by > LK would not be wrong. Because Rahu may not be there, where you are > placing and treating him. > > DEGREES DOES NOT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE IN LALKITAB. WE DONT USE DEGREES > MINUTELY HERE. ONLY USE OF ASTRONOMY IN LALKITAB IS THE ASCENDENT, > THAT IS TOO TO FIX THE PLANETARY POSITION. STILL IT IS OPEN FOR > ASTROLOGER TO CORRRECT THE POSITION OF PLANETS AS PER SYMPTOMS EXISTS > IN THE NATIVE LIFE. THIS IS SCIENCE OF LK. <<<<<<<<<< > > NO, if as per astrology Rahu is say 5 degree of Taurus (with > ascendant Aries so that you may not again change ascendant) then in > LK it would be planced in 2nd house. If there is error of 12 deg. as > I have pointed out then astrologically it would be in Aries sign. But > how you are going to shift it to Aries when astrogers are not > changing it to Aries. Thus you are curing as if Rahu is in 2nd house > irrespective of degrees. Secondly do not use word science because > then you may have some scientific or logical answers. > > >>>>>>> It has nothing to do as to whether you know Sanskrit or not. > Because > when you are following some thing of sages it means you think that > they are correct hence you must be prepared to answer any querry or > read further because you are following something only after reading > translation so what is the harm in answering after reading some > further translation. > IT IS ONE'S OWN IDEOLOGY. I AM IN THE OPINION THAT THE EPICS/BOOKS > SHALL BE READ IN THE LANGUAGE IN WHICH IT IS WRITTEN BY AUTHOR. > TRANSLATERS PUT THEIR OWN MIND IN THE TRANSLATION HENCE MAKES THE > USEFUL AS WASTE SOMETIMES. I KNOW THE LANGUAGE IN WHICH THE LALKITAB > IS WRITTEN HENCE I FIND THIS SYSTEM MORE FAMILIAR AND USEFUL.THIS > STUDY IS SIMPLE AND DOES NOT REQUIRE THAT HUGE MATHEMETICAL > CALCULATIONS. <<<<<<<<<<< > > Again it is not correct. Are we not studied many scientific > principles in translated Hindi or English even if original verse may > be in Greek, Polish or Spanish languages. So your stand do not have > any substance except that LK system is a parasite which take half > planetary astrology and mixed with some totke that too without any > scientific or logical answer as to how pouring of oil and so on is > going to change the fate of an individual who is surrounded by many > persons. You have liked it because in this you have nothing to do > except some totkebaaji. SORRY > > >>>>>Terming any research wrong on the basis of any translated > material is not justified as far as me is concerned. <<<<<<<< > Then how terming any translated material as right may be justified. > TRY TO READ THE ORIGINAL AVAILABLE MATERIAL. IF ONE IS SO ANXIOUS HE > CAN LEARN THAT LANGUAGE. > 'WHY TO SEE FROM OTHERS EYES, WHEN ONE HAS HIS OWN EYES > INTACT'.<<<<<<< > > Agree, It means to whom you are advising some totke must read LK > themselves and do not rely upon on your advise. Because they have > both eyes. If it is so then you must advise your clients to read > original (not translated) LK himself. I hope now you will do like > this. > > >>>>>>>It is for the user to accept or reject as per there > experiences. <<<<< > No, it is not the experience by which some one goes to any pathy. > Because experience here is not personal but social. But if some one > say that you are going to wrong pathy then one must rethink. In the > same way when scientist say that > YOU MUST JUDGE THE CALLIBRE OF THE PERSON WHO SAY THAT 'YOU ARE > WRONG'. SCIENTIST HAD BEEN SAYING FOR THE LAST 50 YEARS THAT BCG > INJECTION IS GOOD TO SAY GOODBYE TO TB. NOW WHAT HAPPENS THEY SAY 'IT > IS USELESS'. IT IS THEIR EXPERIENCE WHICH CHANGES THEIR VERSION. > IN MY VIEWS 'ONES OWN EXPERIENCE RULES OVER AND ABOVE WHAT PEOPLE > SAY'. > > Scientists are right when they say that some inj. Is not good now > because bacterial has changed his structure. But LK has some > reasons behind evil effect of a planet and reasons for remedy except > psychological effect on an individual who are so simple minded that > any Baba can befool him (you may have gone through many news of > befooling the simple minded people.) So if you like to misguide (if > you do not like the word befooling) simple minded persons then > what I can say. > > >>>>> Do you believe the concept of solar system or you believe that > Earth is stationary and flat and so on…………….. > CAN YOU DEFINE WORD 'SCIENCE'. > I BELIEVE EARTH IS FLAT AND STATIONARY AS FAR AS I AM ON EARTH. WHEN > I GO TO SPACE THEN I WILL SAY EARTH IS MOVING AND ROUND. IT IS LAW OF > RELATIVITY. > ASTROLOGY IS BASED UPON SOLAR SYSTEM. EVERY HUMAN BEING IS AFFECTED > BY THESE PLANETS. > YOU KNOW THERE IS NO PLANET NAMELY RAHU & KETU IN SOLAR SYSTEM. EVEN > THEN YOU ARE DISUCSSING RAHU & KETU. BECAUSE THESE POSITIONS OF MOON > ORBIT AFFECT THE PLANETARY ENERGY. <<<<<<<<<<< > > Science is a systematic study of anything with some logical answers. > You can not say both ways that Earth is flat as well as spherical and > stationary as well as moving. Our sages were scientist so long they > were studying and defining some principle on the basis of flat and > stationary Earth with the concept that Sun is near and Moon is far > away (for detail you may read my book). But when it is proved wrong > though after thousands of year then there is no question of > following the principles based on some old science. Where it is > written that astrology is based on solar system (which concept is > only 400 years old). How every human being may be effected by planets > when they do not have any cosmic effect (except Sun). In primitive > time they were considered as living deities hence it was presumed > that they may have effect. Can you explain which type of effect these > planet do have, which was refereed by our sages. Even they were not > awared with the Graviatational and magnetic concept of planets. Yes > I know that there is no planet like Rahu Ketu. And I am discussing it > because you are curing them in LK. Where it was written by any sages > that Moon orbit effect the planetary energy (thorough RKetu). They > were even not awared that orbits (sun and moon) intersects each > other. > > >>>>>>We consider each and every surroundings whether living or > nonliving, stationery or movable has an effect on human behavior. > <<<<<< > Where it is written in any scripture. Scientifically, a Car standing > nearby you may have more gravitational effect then a planet. > WHY ONE WEAR CLOTHES OF DIFFERENT DESIGN. WHY ONE WANT THAT HIS CAR > BE SO SHINY. WHY ONE WANT THAT HIS HOUSE BE LOOKED SO CLEAN AND > BETTER. THESE ALL ARE NON LIVING. > BECAUSE IT AFFECTS OUR MIND. STILL YOU SAY THAT THESE DOES NOT AFFECT > HUMAN BEING. CAN YOU LIVE WITH DEAD. EVEN THE SCRIPTURE ARE AFFECTING > YOU SO MUCH AND MAKE YOU RESTLESS EVEN THESE ARE NON LIVING. > WHY WANT SUN ENERGY IF PLANET IS DEAD. > IT IS ONES OWN WAY OF TERMING THE LIFE. YOUR WAY IS DIFFERENT FROM > OURS. ENJOY YOUR LIFE AND LET US ENJOY OURS. > > So you are washing the planets moving at a distance of crore of KM > with spoonful of oil etc. You are not admitting in clear words that > planetary phobia is effecting the mind because such phobia has been > created in the minds of general public. Hence it affects mind and > now you are curing his psychological phobia by some LK totke instead > of teaching him that there is neither effect nor cure nor LK is > going to change his future. IN other words you are infusing a phobia > and then curing it . > > > >>>>>These two points (soul and planets) are totally not linked with > each > other. And continue to keep watch scientific research. Are they not > creating human beings in test tube and so on again we will left our > main point > I FEEL YOU HAVE NO SCIETIFIC(YOUR TERM) ANSWER TO THIS. THEY ARE > CREATING TEST TUBES WITH HUMAN EMBRIYO. LET THEM MAKE DEAD ALIVE OT > MAKE HUMAN BEING NEVER DIE.TILL THEN WE HAVE TO BELIEVE WHAT WE > THINK. YOU MAY DELINK SOUL AND PLANETS, BUT THESE ARE UNIVERSALLY > LINKED. <<<<<<< > Whether scientist are able or not in doing some thing, it is not > going to make a difference on astrological principles and LK. So > linking of these two things is not logical and it is only a tactics > to divert the main point. > > >>>>>> No, it is not going to knit well the family. If instead of > thinking > Sukra as your wife and pleasing that planet, It would be much better > if you try to please your wife. Likewise you can try to please > yourself (instead of Sun), Teacher, father (instead of Brihspati) and > so on. Thus family will be well knit. And more over how a planetary > body of thousands/laks km in diameter is going to locate your curd, > milk, oil and so on and will amend himself by changing his effect so > that it may left you and grab your neighbour. > > IT IS ONE OWN WAY OF EXPERIENCING. HAVE YOU EVER READ PANCHTANTRA > STORIES. THEY AFFECT MORE THAN A TEACHERS LECTURE. I DONT FIND IN THE > BOOKS THAT YOU CAN GRAB YOUR NEIGHBOUR BY CURD OR ANY METHOD. > STUDY THE BOOK, USE THE SYSTEM, EXPERIENCE IT THEN GIVE YOUR > FINDINGS. THIS IS A BETTER WAY OF CRITICIZING. > ONLY QUESTION IS EXPLOITATION OF INNOCENT BY LUSTY PEOPLE. IF YOU > STUDY A SYSTEM THEN AND ONLY THEN YOU CAN MAKE PEOPLE AWARE THAT HOW > THEY ARE BEING EXPLOITED BY UNSCRUPLOUS PERSONS. <<<<<<<<<< > > Panchatantra stories were created to teach innocent public moreover > it has nothing to do with astrology and LK. I am not saying that you > are going to grab your neighbour with curd etc.But I mean to say > that by such totke you are thinking to liquidate the socalled evil > effect of planet and planet may grab those neighbour who is not doing > such totke. > > >>>>II DONT REQUIRE YOU BOOK NOW. PRESENTLY I AM STUDYING MORE > IMPORTANT > SYSTEM. REGARDING YOUR KUNDLI ,IN MY OPINION, IN FACT WHAT I FEEL IS > THAT > AFTER 35 YEARS OF YOUR STUDY, YOU HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO DECODE YOUR > KUNDLI. I INVITE YOU TO STUDY THIS SYSTEM FOR 3 YEARS SO, YOU WILL > FIND ALL THE ANSWERS. <<<<<<<< > > How I can decode (not like many astrologers) when principles of > astrology are not formulated on correct concept and all of them are > based on primitive concept. If you have answers then why don't you > come forward. If you will answer then definitely I will spent 3 > years. > > > >>>>>> NO YOU HAVE NOT GONE THROUGH THIS BOOK. YOU MAY HAVE GONE > TRANSLATED > MATERIALS WHICH DEPICTS MORE WRONG THAN RIGHT.THESE TRANSLATED > MATERIALS ARE INCOMPLETE, WRONG AND ARE WRONGLY TRANSLATED. WE HAVE > TO PUT SOME OF THE BEST TRANSLATED MATERIAL FREE OF CHARGE ON NET. > THIS MATERIAL STILL NOT FULLY CORRECT BUT IS MORE THAN 70% NEAR TO > CORRECT. YOU CAN REFER TO THAT MATERIAL FOR FLAVOUR. YOU MAY FIND IT > UNIQUE. AS YOU READ THE BOOK YOU WILL FIND THE LOGIC. WRITER HAS NOT > HIDE NAY THING WHICH CAME TO HIS MIND. THESE ARE VERY INTERESTING AND > GOOD BOOKS TO STUDY PREFERABLY IF YOU KNOW URDU YOU READ > ORIGINALS.THESE ARE PUT ONLINE INTO THE WEB FOR READING. WE ALSO > PROVIDE FREE CD OF THESE BOOKS.<<<<<<<<< > > If all translated books are wrong then you may atleast say so with > pointing out as to where they are wrong and what is correctly > written by the writer in 1952 edition. > > > >>>>>>> Presently It will not be possible for me to discuss > this matter any further. we may discuss it on some other time when > discussion on LK system ends.<<<<<<<< > It is always your right to discontinue any discussion. But it is > not my right. I am always prepared to read any thing and prepared > to change my scientific concept otherwise after studying and > preparing so many softwares of astrology, I would not have changed > my way that astrololgy is bogus. > > Thanks for your discussion > Best regards > Sanat > 0751-2626868 > sanatkumar_jain > > (Readers may write to me on my email sanatkumar_jain) > > > > > , " Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj " > <nirbhar@> wrote: > > > > Astrology a science or myth > > > > Dear Sanat Ji, > > I will try to give the answer point wise. My answers are in Caps > > > > Let us move further with our views. Though you have left many points > > untouched from my 1st and 2nd mail, but it is always your right to > > answer on some points and left others. But I will try to answer your > > points. Sorry for any adverse comments. > > > > AS I ALREADY SAID THAT THIS GROUP IS PRESENTLY DISCUSSING LALKITAB, > > IT IS NOT REQUIRED TO GIVE ANSWERS BECAUSE THESE ARE NOT USEFUL IN > > THE STUDY OF LALKITAB. I DONT FIND ANY ADVERSITY ON YOUR COMMENTS. > > > > >>>>>>when I completed my graduation(Rishi) in astrology course in > > the institute.<<<<<<< > > This is the main problem which is not allowing you to review whole > > situation with new angle. Though these points came to your mind > > before completing the course but you have not clarified those points > > during the completion of course. > > DEAR SANAT JI, I STUDIED AND STUDY EVERY SUBJECT UNORTHODOX WAY. IT > > IS MY WAY OF TAKING A SUBJECT.YOURS SEEMS TO THE SAME, MAY BE > LITTLE > > BIT DIFFERENT. I STUDIED THE TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGY AS WELL AS > > ASTRONOMY.I FOUND ALL THE ANSWERS. STILL I WAS NOT SATISFIED WITH > THE > > TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGICAL SYSTEMS. BY THE GRACE OF GOD SOME GOOD > > FRIENDS HAS INTRODUCED ME TO THIS NEW SYSTEM OF ASTROLOGY A FEW > YEARS > > BACK. I AM HAPPY THAT I HAVE BEEN TO THIS SYSTEM. > > >>>>>>…….We term these astrologers as 'Postmortem > > Astrologers',>>>>>>>> > > Good comment. > > >>>>>>> ………It means that we should keep apart what we read so far in > > other system of astrology.<<<<<<<< > > Yes, but if you take some thing from other branch then either you > > must know about it or may be prepared to answer the questions > raised. > > Thus if you are leaving rashi / nachatra then why are you (You means > > LK. In future too take it as LK) using Aries sign in ascendant, and > > how you have worked out that Saturn / mars etc are evil planets, and > > how you have worked out that so and so planet can be befooled by so > > and so colour. Actually all this tradition have been borrowed from > > planetary astrology. > > > > FOR LEARNING ANY SYSTEM YOU MUST FIRST BECOME A PART OF THAT SYSTEM > > LEAVING A PART THE PRESET MIND. I AM NOT TERMING ANY SYSTEM WRONG. > IT > > IS ONES OWN LEVEL OF SATISFACTION. YOU ARE ACTUALY NOT BEEN > FAMILIAR > > TO LALKITAB SYSTEM. EVERY PLANET IN THIS SYSTEM CAN BE EVIL OR > GOOD. > > I DONT FIND IT IS WRITTEN IN ANY BOOK THAT A PLANET CAN BE > > BEFOOLED.BY THE WAY WHEN YOU DONT TREAT PLANET LIVE THEN YOUR > > QUESTION OF FOOLING THE PLANET SHOULD NOT ARISE. DISCUSSION CAN > ONLY > > BE TAKEN ON THE SAME PRINCIPLE OR SUBJECT. YOUR PRINCIPLES ARE > > DIFFERENT THAN OURS. IT IS BETTER FOR US TO KEEP ON INDIVIDUAL > > STUDIES. > > > > >>>>>>>Regarding other queries of eclipse etc,it is a chapter of > > astronomy and every answer lies there. <<<<<<<< > > > > Why astronomy, now you are using science. Eclipse etc were part of > > astrology and they are still part of astrology. Though scientist > > classified it as astronomy. Let them. But you can answer it under > > astrology and clarify as to why Rahu was 11/12 degrees away from the > > point of eclipse and so on. Otherwise placement of Rahu and remedy > by > > LK would not be wrong. Because Rahu may not be there, where you are > > placing and treating him. > > > > DEGREES DOES NOT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE IN LALKITAB. WE DONT USE > DEGREES > > MINUTELY HERE. ONLY USE OF ASTRONOMY IN LALKITAB IS THE ASCENDENT, > > THAT IS TOO TO FIX THE PLANETARY POSITION. STILL IT IS OPEN FOR > > ASTROLOGER TO CORRRECT THE POSITION OF PLANETS AS PER SYMPTOMS > EXISTS > > IN THE NATIVE LIFE. > > THIS IS SCIENCE OF LK. > > > > >>>>>>> what our ancient edicts say about it, I > > cannot comment upon it as I do not know Sanskrit and I have not read > > any original books because of lack of Sanskrit knowledge. <<<<<<<< > > It has nothing to do as to whether you know Sanskrit or not. Because > > when you are following some thing of sages it means you think that > > they are correct hence you must be prepared to answer any querry or > > read further because you are following something only after reading > > translation so what is the harm in answering after reading some > > further translation. > > IT IS ONE'S OWN IDEOLOGY. I AM IN THE OPINION THAT THE EPICS/ BOOKS > > SHALL BE READ IN THE LANGUAGE IN WHICH IT IS WRITTEN BY AUTHOR. > > TRANSLATERS PUT THEIR OWN MIND IN THE TRANSLATION HENCE MAKES THE > > USEFUL AS WASTE SOMETIMES. I KNOW THE LANGUAGE IN WHICH THE > LALKITAB > > IS WRITTEN HENCE I FIND THIS SYSTEM MORE FAMILIAR AND USEFUL.THIS > > STUDY IS SIMPLE AND DOES NOT REQUIRE THAT HUGE MATHEMETICAL > > CALCULATIONS. > > >>>>>Terming any research wrong on the basis of any translated > > material is not justified as far as me is concerned. <<<<<<<< > > Then how terming any translated material as right may be justified. > > TRY TO READ THE ORIGINAL AVAILABLE MATERIAL. IF ONE IS SO ANXIOUS > HE > > CAN LEARN THAT LANGUAGE. > > 'WHY TO SEE FROM OTHERS EYES, WHEN ONE HAS HIS OWN EYES INTACT'. > > > > >>>>>>>It is for the user to accept or reject as per there > > experiences. <<<<< > > No, it is not the experience by which some one goes to any pathy. > > Because experience here is not personal but social. But if some one > > say that you are going to wrong pathy then one must rethink. In the > > same way when scientist say that > > YOU MUST JUDGE THE CALLIBRE OF THE PERSON WHO SAY THAT 'YOU ARE > > WRONG'. SCIENTIST HAD BEEN SAYING FOR THE LAST 50 YEARS THAT BCG > > INJECTION IS GOOD TO SAY GOODBYE TO TB. NOW WHAT HAPPENS THEY > SAY 'IT > > IS USELESS'. IT IS THEIR EXPERIENCE WHICH CHANGES THEIR VERSION. > > IN MY VIEWS 'ONES OWN EXPERIENCE RULES OVER AND ABOVE WHAT PEOPLE > > SAY'. > > > > >>>>>planets as dead dudes <<<<< > > then why don't you rethink and come out with some solid scientific > > proof. Do you believe the concept of solar system or you believe > that > > Earth is stationary and flat and so on…………….. > > CAN YOU DEFINE WORD 'SCIENCE'. > > I BELIEVE EARTH IS FLAT AND STATIONARY AS FAR AS I AM ON EARTH. > WHEN > > I GO TO SPACE THEN I WILL SAY EARTH IS MOVING AND ROUND. IT IS LAW > OF > > RELATIVITY. > > ASTROLOGY IS BASED UPON SOLAR SYSTEM. EVERY HUMAN BEING IS AFFECTED > > BY THESE PLANETS. > > YOU KNOW THERE IS NO PLANET NAMELY RAHU & KETU IN SOLAR SYSTEM. > EVEN > > THEN YOU ARE DISUCSSING RAHU & KETU. BECAUSE THESE POSITIONS OF > MOON > > ORBIT AFFECT THE PLANETARY ENERGY. > > >>>>>>We consider each and every surroundings whether living or > > nonliving, stationery or movable has an effect on human behavior. > > <<<<<< > > > > Where it is written in any scripture. Scientifically, a Car standing > > nearby you may have more gravitational effect then a planet. > > WHY ONE WEAR CLOTHES OF DIFFERENT DESIGN. WHY ONE WANT THAT HIS CAR > > BE SO SHINY. WHY ONE WANT THAT HIS HOUSE BE LOOKED SO CLEAN AND > > BETTER. THESE ALL ARE NON LIVING. > > BECAUSE IT AFFECTS OUR MIND. STILL YOU SAY THAT THESE DOES NOT > AFFECT > > HUMAN BEING. CAN YOU LIVE WITH DEAD. EVEN THE SCRIPTURE ARE > AFFECTING > > YOU SO MUCH AND MAKE YOU RESTLESS EVEN THESE ARE NON LIVING. > > WHY WANT SUN ENERGY IF PLANET IS DEAD. > > IT IS ONES OWN WAY OF TERMING THE LIFE. YOUR WAY IS DIFFERENT FROM > > OURS. ENJOY YOUR LIFE AND LET US ENJOY OURS. > > >>>>>It may be your own experience that these planets do not effect > > any body. This debate continue to exist as long as the scientists > > don't make human being in laboratory and keep the atma or soul in > > their control. <<<<<<<<< > > These two points (soul and planets) are totally not linked with each > > other. And continue to keep watch scientific research. Are they not > > creating human beings in test tube and so on again we will left our > > main point > > I FEEL YOU HAVE NO SCIETIFIC(YOUR TERM) ANSWER TO THIS. THEY ARE > > CREATING TEST TUBES WITH HUMAN EMBRIYO. LET THEM MAKE DEAD ALIVE OT > > MAKE HUMAN BEING NEVER DIE.TILL THEN WE HAVE TO BELIEVE WHAT WE > > THINK. YOU MAY DELINK SOUL AND PLANETS, BUT THESE ARE UNIVERSALLY > > LINKED. > > > > >>>>>>As per Lalkitab theory if one consider-Sun as his own soul & > > body, the father/dada as -Brihaspati(Guru), Moon as mother or mother > > like , Mercury as sister,daughter or Bhua, Mars as Brother, Shukkar > > as Wife or husband, Saturn as Chacha, rahu as Sasur, Ketu as Son, he > > is not doing any sin. This will not harm the society, it will rather > > help to knit well the harmony in the families.>>>>>> > > No, it is not going to knit well the family. If instead of thinking > > Sukra as your wife and pleasing that planet, It would be much better > > if you try to please your wife. Likewise you can try to please > > yourself (instead of Sun), Teacher, father (instead of Brihspati) > and > > so on. Thus family will be well knit. And more over how a planetary > > body of thousands/laks km in diameter is going to locate your curd, > > milk, oil and so on and will amend himself by changing his effect so > > that it may left you and grab your neighbour. > > IT IS ONE OWN WAY OF EXPERIENCING. HAVE YOU EVER READ PANCHTANTRA > > STORIES. THEY AFFECT MORE THAN A TEACHERS LECTURE. I DONT FIND IN > THE > > BOOKS THAT YOU CAN GRAB YOUR NEIGHBOUR BY CURD OR ANY METHOD. > > STUDY THE BOOK, USE THE SYSTEM, EXPERIENCE IT THEN GIVE YOUR > > FINDINGS. THIS IS A BETTER WAY OF CRITICIZING. > > ONLY QUESTION IS EXPLOITATION OF INNOCENT BY LUSTY PEOPLE. IF YOU > > STUDY A SYSTEM THEN AND ONLY THEN YOU CAN MAKE PEOPLE AWARE THAT > HOW > > THEY ARE BEING EXPLOITED BY UNSCRUPLOUS PERSONS. > > > > >>>>>>…. therefore it is a waste of time to > > keep on discussing such useless data.>>>>>>>> > > > > It is your right to stop this interaction. > > YES, YOU ARE RIGHT. > > >>>>I have seen the 'Eskain Kundli " and truly speaking I could not > > understand the contents of the kundli.<<<<<< > > This kundli was devised to cover all astrological principles so that > > their may not be any possibility to get some escape route from any > > final result But even despite this that is all sort of pathological > > examination ie. Blood test, xray, scan and so on. there is not a > true > > result. You have to read my original book " Jyotish kitna sahi kitna > > galat " for knowing in detail. Though hints have been given in the > > horoscope it self. > > I DONT REQUIRE YOU BOOK NOW. PRESENTLY I AM STUDYING MORE IMPORTANT > > SYSTEM. > > REGARDING YOUR KUNDLI ,IN MY OPINION, IN FACT WHAT I FEEL IS THAT > > AFTER 35 YEARS OF YOUR STUDY, YOU HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO DECODE YOUR > > KUNDLI. I INVITE YOU TO STUDY THIS SYSTEM FOR 3 YEARS SO, YOU WILL > > FIND ALL THE ANSWERS. > > >>>>>> you have a research based mind and Lalkitab requires > > such types of person to explore it. It is welcome step if you start > > studying this system and bring your research out.>>>>>>> > > I have already gone through LK. But mother of all sort of > > predictive / remedial measure is planetary astrology. Other branches > > have adopted some portion of planetary astrology. Yes I am ready to > > research in any direction, because I am totally open minded but > > there must be some logical reasoning where I could move. If you will > > go through my book and find some point where I must move then I am > > ready to move. > > NO YOU HAVE NOT GONE THROUGH THIS BOOK. YOU MAY HAVE GONE > TRANSLATED > > MATERIALS WHICH DEPICTS MORE WRONG THAN RIGHT.THESE TRANSLATED > > MATERIALS ARE INCOMPLETE, WRONG AND ARE WRONGLY TRANSLATED. WE > HAVE > > TO PUT SOME OF THE BEST TRANSLATED MATERIAL FREE OF CHARGE ON NET. > > THIS MATERIAL STILL NOT FULLY CORRECT BUT IS MORE THAN 70% NEAR TO > > CORRECT. YOU CAN REFER TO THAT MATERIAL FOR FLAVOUR. YOU MAY FIND > IT > > UNIQUE. AS YOU READ THE BOOK YOU WILL FIND THE LOGIC. WRITER HAS > NOT > > HIDE NAY THING WHICH CAME TO HIS MIND. THESE ARE VERY INTERESTING > AND > > GOOD BOOKS TO STUDY PREFERABLY IF YOU KNOW URDU YOU READ > > ORIGINALS.THESE ARE PUT ONLINE INTO THE WEB FOR READING. WE ALSO > > PROVIDE FREE CD OF THESE BOOKS. > > Dear Sanat Ji, Presently It will not be possible for me to discuss > > this matter any further. we may discuss it on some other time when > > discussion on LK system ends. > > I consider you an intelligent and unorthodox student of astrology. > I > > wish you read this system and write books of your findings. > > Best regards > > Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to some misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not studied in depth but you only have faith, because you have been informed like this. So come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as to whether astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of science due to some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the sentiments of astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only want to emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let us examine it and then there will be no question of hurting, because you have not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are standing in support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has been infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology is a science without knowing the story of other side. I can understand the problem of astrologer that they will loose their business but if you are a client then you must have right to know the truth or call an astrologer in the consumer forum. At the time of formulating the astrological principles in early Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being has capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This religious philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet (Sun, Moon, Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days only sages had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus after prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill to predict solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called grabbing the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu. They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and its duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer donations etc. to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which is still being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of everybody is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this situation, it was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict the fate of deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict the fate of King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate various astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge of sages based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These principles were the key factors for deciding the fate. Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never percolated in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier to learn such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these principles were spread to other civilisation and later on developed as Western system. What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One group belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology due to their business considerations (these astrologers always try to fit past event very precisely within some astrological principle within a capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and faith etc., but they are unable to predict any future event. Because astrological principles lead to diverse predictions and that too diabolical opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in fluke) may come true then they start to harp on the same prediction and start self praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on other horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only mislead, create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can find that only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group (say scientist) try to raise some logical questions against astrology. But none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was the level of information of sages about the Universe, who developed astrological principles in primitive age and what procedure was adopted to formulate various principles relating to Lordship, Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect, Vinshottary periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles then following questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in subpara). 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among seven planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ? It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the stationary Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on………. 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is enmity and friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are enemy of each other) ? Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and demons over nector after sea-churning……….. 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect (full, quarter to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect on seventh house) ? Based on the position of army in the battle field……….. 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are exalted and debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. of Aries sign) ? Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when duration of the day is more in comparison to night…… 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful and hub of our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha whereas Venus (a small planet) has 20 years ? Based on two triangles derived after working out the effect of Universe on the basis of lord and exalted……. 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various constellations between nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ? Kratica was first constellation in Indian scriptures………. 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a week (Sunday, Monday etc.) ? Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the structure of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away….. 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde motion of Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)? On the basis of recurrence of eclipse….. 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are 180 deg. apart? On the basis of recurrence of eclipse……….. 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of eclipse ? Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation month………. Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question as to whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one gave answers to these questions then he will realise that entire astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept of Universe. Everybody may agree that every research is based on the then knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed by sage Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is in the centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed in all religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read any old scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas Moon is beyond Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury and Moon. You may be surprised to know that all astrological principles are actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self studying astrology since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude correct prediction. But if it is true at one time then same combination is not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh logically and systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive concept (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling in view of modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive concept of Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed. After lot of research I wrote an original book on astrology " Jyotish - Kitna sahi kitna galat " in Hindi (330 pages). This book contains the detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles on the basis of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our sages to formulate these principles. This book was also published in English with the title " Astrology a science or myth " (450 pages). You can realize that this is revolutionary book and will change the face of predictive astrology in due course. If you interested to know more about the book or description of various chapters then you may send email to me. The book is being marketed in USA /UK etc. Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?produktID=1759836 http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat%20kumar% 20jain & TAG= & CID= http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx? ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, Neptune nor they were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to presence of Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed the concept of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It was mentioned in the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came within 14 degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon). But nobody will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse when Sun, Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree respectively on 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, Moon and Ketu were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on 03-03-1988 ( Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar eclipses occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was more then 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at 79.04 deg. on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon were at 76.49 deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu was 15.14 deg. away). To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you will also find in many modern astrological books that eclipse occurred at the intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it was not known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis of myth). Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse, when Moon happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be there. But As per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-1985 and 3- 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were full solar eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 degree respectively. You will agree that when there were full solar eclipses then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and 166 degree respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may possible. Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in almanac. Thus there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees respectively. All horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this fundamental positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you want then I can give many more examples and very simple method of detecting them. I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a science but in primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of astronomy + psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science, psychology (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive age) played an important role in handling a person by the astrologer due to immense faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology appears to be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will also agree with the above observation after going through my original revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-decided as was contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may try to do some thing, because every thing will take place according to pre- written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of modifying that pre- written destiny, because if we try to change only our fate, even then all attached happening will automatically change creating a cascading effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of every person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or say pre- defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when every Tom, Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship, good deed etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under change. You will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and can never and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart cannot be altered it means result of calculation or say prediction is also fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever prewritten) by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc. because in that case, if you like to say, then future events will be altered but how a calculation of planetary transit or linked prediction can be changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed transit of planets? Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest assured that actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. Only astronomy and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were used unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it appears correct. Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a myth. Still if you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact The James Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000 prize to anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-mail and website is jref and http://www.randi.org Because modern technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being used to spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested business interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight this sort of ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in this regard and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to formulate principles was neither logical nor based on correct information of Universe, solar system. I will like to have your critical comments for further interaction on my email sanatkumar_jain . It would be better to know the roots of astrology and facts, data behind it before falling in the trap and come forward to join hands because of AIDS (Astrology Is Damaging Society). Sanat Kumar Jain Gwalior Reader may directly write to me on my email instead of creating problems to moderator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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