Guest guest Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 Dear Sanat, your document has already been in the group file section. You have raised some crucials issues. It would be better if you put your book free of cost on net, so that your ideas reach each and every person. In my opinion,Most of your querries in your letter have simple answers.You have not given your views about these questions.Anyhow we assure you that these will be taken up in future and You are welcome to discuss step by step in the group if you have any doubts about the astrological studies. But Presently we are discussing the LalKitab system.If you have any doubts regarding this system to discuss,you are welcome. Regards Nirmal Kumar Moderator PS. Without jumping in the Sea one cannot explore its richness. , " sanat2221 " <sanatkumar_jain wrote: > > Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to some > misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not studied in depth > but you only have faith, because you have been informed like this. So > come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as to whether > astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of science due to > some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the sentiments of > astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only want to > emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let us examine > it and then there will be no question of hurting, because you have > not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are standing in > support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has been > infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology is a > science without knowing the story of other side. I can understand the > problem of astrologer that they will loose their business but if you > are a client then you must have right to know the truth or call an > astrologer in the consumer forum. > > At the time of formulating the astrological principles in early > Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being has > capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This religious > philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet (Sun, Moon, > Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days only sages > had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus after > prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill to predict > solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called grabbing > the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu. > They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and its > duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer donations etc. > to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which is still > being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of everybody > is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this situation, it > was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict the fate of > deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict the fate of > King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate various > astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge of sages > based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These principles > were the key factors for deciding the fate. > > Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never percolated > in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier to learn > such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these principles were > spread to other civilisation and later on developed as Western system. > What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One group > belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology due to > their business considerations (these astrologers always try to fit > past event very precisely within some astrological principle within a > capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and faith etc., > but they are unable to predict any future event. Because astrological > principles lead to diverse predictions and that too diabolical > opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in fluke) may come > true then they start to harp on the same prediction and start self > praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on other > horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only mislead, > create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can find that > only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group (say > scientist) try to raise some logical questions against astrology. But > none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was the level > of information of sages about the Universe, who developed > astrological principles in primitive age and what procedure was > adopted to formulate various principles relating to Lordship, > Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect, Vinshottary > periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles then following > questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in subpara). > > 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among seven > planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ? > > It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the stationary > Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on………. > > 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is enmity and > friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are enemy of each > other) ? > Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and demons over > nector after sea-churning……….. > 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect (full, quarter > to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect on seventh > house) ? > Based on the position of army in the battle field……….. > > 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are exalted and > debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. of Aries > sign) ? > Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when duration of the > day is more in comparison to night…… > 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful and hub of > our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha whereas Venus (a > small planet) has 20 years ? > Based on two triangles derived after working out the effect of > Universe on the basis of lord and exalted……. > 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various constellations between > nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ? > > Kratica was first constellation in Indian scriptures………. > > 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a week > (Sunday, Monday etc.) ? > Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the structure > of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away….. > > 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde motion of > Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)? > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse….. > 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are 180 deg. > apart? > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse……….. > 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of eclipse ? > Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation month………. > > Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question as to > whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one gave > answers to these questions then he will realise that entire > astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept of > Universe. > > Everybody may agree that every research is based on the then > knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed by sage > Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is in the > centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed in all > religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read any old > scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas Moon is beyond > Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury and Moon. > You may be surprised to know that all astrological principles are > actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self studying astrology > since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude correct > prediction. But if it is true at one time then same combination is > not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh logically and > systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive concept > (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling in view of > modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive concept of > Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed. > After lot of research I wrote an original book on astrology " Jyotish - > Kitna sahi kitna galat " in Hindi (330 pages). This book contains the > detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles on the basis > of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our sages to > formulate these principles. This book was also published in English > with the title " Astrology a science or myth " (450 pages). You can > realize that this is revolutionary book and will change the face of > predictive astrology in due course. If you interested to know more > about the book or description of various chapters then you may send > email to me. The book is being marketed in USA /UK etc. > Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?produktID=1759836 > > http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat%20kumar% > 20jain & TAG= & CID= > > http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx? > ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t > > At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, Neptune nor they > were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to presence of > Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed the concept > of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It was mentioned in > the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came within 14 > degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon). But nobody > will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse when Sun, > Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree respectively on > 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, Moon and Ketu > were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on 03-03-1988 ( > Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar eclipses > occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was more then > 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at 79.04 deg. > on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon were at 76.49 > deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu was 15.14 > deg. away). > To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you will also > find in many modern astrological books that eclipse occurred at the > intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it was not > known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis of myth). > Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse, when Moon > happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be there. But As > per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-1985 and 3- > 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were full solar > eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 degree > respectively. You will agree that when there were full solar eclipses > then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and 166 degree > respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may possible. > Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in almanac. Thus > there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees respectively. All > horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this fundamental > positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you want then I > can give many more examples and very simple method of detecting them. > I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a science but in > primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of astronomy + > psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science, psychology > (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive age) played an > important role in handling a person by the astrologer due to immense > faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology appears to > be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will also agree > with the above observation after going through my original > revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-decided as was > contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may try to do > some thing, because every thing will take place according to pre- > written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of modifying that pre- > written destiny, because if we try to change only our fate, even then > all attached happening will automatically change creating a cascading > effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of every > person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or say pre- > defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when every Tom, > Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship, good deed > etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under change. You > will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical > calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and can never > and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart cannot be > altered it means result of calculation or say prediction is also > fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever prewritten) > by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc. because in > that case, if you like to say, then future events will be altered but > how a calculation of planetary transit or linked prediction can be > changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed transit of > planets? > > Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest assured that > actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. Only astronomy > and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were used > unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it appears correct. > Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a myth. Still if > you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact The James > Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000 prize to > anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-mail and > website is jref and http://www.randi.org Because modern > technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being used to > spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested business > interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight this sort of > ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in this regard > and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology > (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to formulate > principles was neither logical nor based on correct information of > Universe, solar system. > > I will like to have your critical comments for further interaction on > my email sanatkumar_jain . It would be better to know > the roots of astrology and facts, data behind it before falling in > the trap and come forward to join hands because of AIDS (Astrology Is > Damaging Society). > Sanat Kumar Jain > Gwalior > > Reader may directly write to me on my email instead of creating > problems to moderator > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 Astrology a science or myth Dear Bhardwaj Ji, Namaskar, Thanks for your comments and suggestion of putting the book on net. But it cannot be done because now it will be against copyright of publisher and Hindi book " Jyotish Kitna Sahi Kitna galat " has original research based 325 pages, which is not a small book. >>>>> In my opinion,Most of your querries in your letter have simple answers <<<<<<<<< It may be, but if you have these simple answers then I am waiting for that, and if you have these logical answers in view of the then primitive knowledge then you may also know that these astrological principles are not logical in view of modern knowledge, which is quite against the primitive concept. >>>>>>>>You have not given your views about these questions.<<<<<<<< It is not correct, I have given a hint for every question and for detail analysis and procedure adopted to formulate all astrological principles you have to go through the book " Jyotish Kitna Sahi Kitna galat " . >>>>>>>discuss step by step in the group if you have any doubts about the astrological studies.<<<<<<< I have already raised many points or doubts in astrological principles now it is your turn to answer, yes, you can answer step by step. >>>>>>Presently we are discussing the LalKitab system.If you have any doubts regarding this system to discuss<<<<<<< The remedies of LK is for correcting effect of planets. When I am raising questions against astrology it-self then it is obvious that LK is being questioned. Life is not so easy which can be moulded (because we have to mould others life for getting some thing for our life) by some curd, almond, rise, ice, oil etc. If you change the course of anyone's life with socalled remedies then where is the prediction which is fixed because birth horoscope and transit of the planets and their effect as worked out after applying the astrological principles are fixed. And if you change some effect (as you claim) then it will generate cascading effect, which in turn will change the future of every one not alone the individual who is carrying out the remedy. So long every one is in the grip of Saturn from both ends (black hair and footwear) with Mars in between (tounge and blood) you can not cure planets. Thus you may start to suggest for shaving the head of women without footwear and spilt the tounge and try to remove the blood only then some one can be cured from the ill effect of planets. IS IT POSSIBLE ??? We Indians are very simple with little ambitions and do not want to take pains and always try to get some shortcut by this way or that way. BUT THERE IS NO SHORTCUT OF SUCCESS IN LIFE. However, individual with weak mental status may be lured to correct every odd of the life with some curd or almond. If it would have been so simple then there is no need of any school, hospital and law etc. because every thing would have achieved with some remedy either competition or business or illness and so on. Thus actually by supporting such concept we are underestimating the labour of sincere hard working individuals. >>>>>>>PS. Without jumping in the Sea one cannot explore its richness.<<<<<<< How you can say so when I am studying astrology since last 35 years and try to conclude any one correct principle. If you have any one correct principle then Please let me know. I am also uploading a file " Eskain Kundali " in your file section by which you can see that I myself developed and drawn a horoscope covering all sort of astrological principles for concluding any correct prediction with so many self developed softwares. Heartly thanks for your comments. Hope now you will go through my entire blog. Hope to hear soon. Yours truly, Sanat Readers may write on my email Sanatkumar_jain , " Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj " <nirbhar wrote: > > Dear Sanat, > your document has already been in the group file section. You have > raised some crucials issues. It would be better if you put your book > free of cost on net, so that your ideas reach each and every person. > In my opinion,Most of your querries in your letter have simple > answers.You have not given your views about these questions.Anyhow we > assure you that these will be taken up in future and You are welcome > to discuss step by step in the group if you have any doubts about the > astrological studies. But Presently we are discussing the LalKitab > system.If you have any doubts regarding this system to discuss,you > are welcome. > Regards > Nirmal Kumar > Moderator > PS. Without jumping in the Sea one cannot explore its richness. > > , > " sanat2221 " <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to some > > misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not studied in > depth > > but you only have faith, because you have been informed like this. > So > > come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as to whether > > astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of science due to > > some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the sentiments of > > astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only want to > > emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let us > examine > > it and then there will be no question of hurting, because you have > > not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are standing > in > > support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has been > > infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology is a > > science without knowing the story of other side. I can understand > the > > problem of astrologer that they will loose their business but if > you > > are a client then you must have right to know the truth or call an > > astrologer in the consumer forum. > > > > At the time of formulating the astrological principles in early > > Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being has > > capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This > religious > > philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet (Sun, Moon, > > Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days only > sages > > had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus after > > prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill to > predict > > solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called grabbing > > the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu. > > They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and its > > duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer donations > etc. > > to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which is still > > being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of > everybody > > is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this situation, it > > was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict the fate of > > deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict the fate > of > > King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate various > > astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge of sages > > based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These > principles > > were the key factors for deciding the fate. > > > > Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never > percolated > > in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier to learn > > such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these principles were > > spread to other civilisation and later on developed as Western > system. > > What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One group > > belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology due to > > their business considerations (these astrologers always try to fit > > past event very precisely within some astrological principle within > a > > capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and faith etc., > > but they are unable to predict any future event. Because > astrological > > principles lead to diverse predictions and that too diabolical > > opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in fluke) may > come > > true then they start to harp on the same prediction and start self > > praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on other > > horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only mislead, > > create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can find > that > > only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group (say > > scientist) try to raise some logical questions against astrology. > But > > none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was the > level > > of information of sages about the Universe, who developed > > astrological principles in primitive age and what procedure was > > adopted to formulate various principles relating to Lordship, > > Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect, Vinshottary > > periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles then > following > > questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in subpara). > > > > 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among seven > > planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ? > > > > It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the stationary > > Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on………. > > > > 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is enmity and > > friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are enemy of > each > > other) ? > > Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and demons over > > nector after sea-churning……….. > > 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect (full, > quarter > > to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect on seventh > > house) ? > > Based on the position of army in the battle field……….. > > > > 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are exalted and > > debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. of Aries > > sign) ? > > Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when duration of the > > day is more in comparison to night…… > > 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful and hub > of > > our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha whereas Venus > (a > > small planet) has 20 years ? > > Based on two triangles derived after working out the effect of > > Universe on the basis of lord and exalted……. > > 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various constellations > between > > nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ? > > > > Kratica was first constellation in Indian scriptures………. > > > > 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a week > > (Sunday, Monday etc.) ? > > Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the structure > > of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away….. > > > > 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde motion of > > Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)? > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse….. > > 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are 180 deg. > > apart? > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse……….. > > 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of eclipse ? > > Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation month………. > > > > Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question as to > > whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one gave > > answers to these questions then he will realise that entire > > astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept of > > Universe. > > > > Everybody may agree that every research is based on the then > > knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed by sage > > Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is in the > > centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed in all > > religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read any old > > scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas Moon is > beyond > > Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury and Moon. > > You may be surprised to know that all astrological principles are > > actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self studying > astrology > > since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude correct > > prediction. But if it is true at one time then same combination is > > not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh logically and > > systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive concept > > (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling in view of > > modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive concept > of > > Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed. > > After lot of research I wrote an original book on astrology > " Jyotish - > > Kitna sahi kitna galat " in Hindi (330 pages). This book contains > the > > detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles on the > basis > > of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our sages to > > formulate these principles. This book was also published in English > > with the title " Astrology a science or myth " (450 pages). You can > > realize that this is revolutionary book and will change the face of > > predictive astrology in due course. If you interested to know more > > about the book or description of various chapters then you may send > > email to me. The book is being marketed in USA /UK etc. > > Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do? produktID=1759836 > > > > http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat% 20kumar% > > 20jain & TAG= & CID= > > > > http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx? > > ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t > > > > At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, Neptune nor > they > > were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to presence > of > > Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed the > concept > > of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It was mentioned > in > > the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came within 14 > > degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon). But > nobody > > will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse when > Sun, > > Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree respectively > on > > 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, Moon and > Ketu > > were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on 03-03- 1988 > ( > > Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar eclipses > > occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was more then > > 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at 79.04 > deg. > > on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon were at > 76.49 > > deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu was 15.14 > > deg. away). > > To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you will also > > find in many modern astrological books that eclipse occurred at the > > intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it was not > > known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis of > myth). > > Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse, when Moon > > happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be there. But > As > > per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-1985 and > 3- > > 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were full solar > > eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 degree > > respectively. You will agree that when there were full solar > eclipses > > then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and 166 > degree > > respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may possible. > > Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in almanac. > Thus > > there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees respectively. > All > > horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this fundamental > > positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you want then > I > > can give many more examples and very simple method of detecting > them. > > I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a science but in > > primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of astronomy + > > psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science, psychology > > (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive age) played > an > > important role in handling a person by the astrologer due to > immense > > faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology appears > to > > be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will also agree > > with the above observation after going through my original > > revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-decided as was > > contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may try to > do > > some thing, because every thing will take place according to pre- > > written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of modifying that > pre- > > written destiny, because if we try to change only our fate, even > then > > all attached happening will automatically change creating a > cascading > > effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of every > > person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or say pre- > > defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when every > Tom, > > Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship, good deed > > etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under change. > You > > will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical > > calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and can never > > and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart cannot be > > altered it means result of calculation or say prediction is also > > fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever > prewritten) > > by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc. because in > > that case, if you like to say, then future events will be altered > but > > how a calculation of planetary transit or linked prediction can be > > changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed transit of > > planets? > > > > Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest assured > that > > actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. Only > astronomy > > and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were used > > unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it appears > correct. > > Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a myth. Still > if > > you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact The James > > Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000 prize to > > anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-mail and > > website is jref@ and http://www.randi.org Because modern > > technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being used to > > spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested business > > interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight this sort > of > > ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in this regard > > and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology > > (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to formulate > > principles was neither logical nor based on correct information of > > Universe, solar system. > > > > I will like to have your critical comments for further interaction > on > > my email sanatkumar_jain@ . It would be better to know > > the roots of astrology and facts, data behind it before falling in > > the trap and come forward to join hands because of AIDS (Astrology > Is > > Damaging Society). > > Sanat Kumar Jain > > Gwalior > > > > Reader may directly write to me on my email instead of creating > > problems to moderator > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 Sanat ji, i will strongly reccomend u read a book titled LIGHT ON LIFE by ROBERT SVABODHA. you will get answers to most of ur querries in this book plus also read ASTROLOGY OF THE SEERS. if u still have some confusion then we can discuss in detail.Nirmal ji is 100 % pertcent correct that most of these querries have simple answers. he has also advisede u to approach step by step approach. lets giove it a try. vedic science talked about atman of trees etc. pranic force was recognised in every living or nonliving entity. intracellular memmory is a recent scientific discovery but u can find it in upnishads veda and other sacred texts. it was written in a simplified manner to give more grasping power to students that why it is in format of stories. study maya civilization calender or lets come back to our hindu texts. Study the book DATING OF AN ERA that deals with dating of events of ramayana based on software planetarium developed by nasa. so much celestial observation in ramayana dated 7000 years old also there are many accounts in mahabharta. what could have been the methodology to study the planets and there orbits in those days. it is not possibl;e to arrive at conclusions by obervations made by naked eye. Pluto has already been deleted from list of planets. please understand the concept of cosmis rays in physics. regarding the time and spans alloted to planets in vimshotri system etc. read any book on krishnamurthi padhiti. but to call the authors of vedas upnishads as illetrates is an insult to our tradtion by a misinformed person. if u still don't fimd answers to ur questions after redaing these books please let us know. we shall try to help u out. this group is not for furtherin any astorloger business but for enlightenment. u have another thing to understand and that is the theory of karma and reincarnation. this very concept forbids predictions being compartmentalised into water tight compartments. planatary postions in horoscope give a hint to our past conducts and advise to charter our future course. planets are just like indicators. just as hands of a watch indicate time of sunrise and sunset but sunset and sunrise are not dependent upon movement of these hands. appeasement of planets is just a sumbolic method to correct our conduct. please go through the books as recommended. then we can move ahead. thanks kulbirbainz. On 1/12/08, Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj <nirbhar wrote: Dear Sanat,your document has already been in the group file section. You have raised some crucials issues. It would be better if you put your book free of cost on net, so that your ideas reach each and every person. In my opinion,Most of your querries in your letter have simple answers.You have not given your views about these questions.Anyhow we assure you that these will be taken up in future and You are welcome to discuss step by step in the group if you have any doubts about the astrological studies. But Presently we are discussing the LalKitab system.If you have any doubts regarding this system to discuss,you are welcome.RegardsNirmal Kumar ModeratorPS. Without jumping in the Sea one cannot explore its richness. , " sanat2221 " <sanatkumar_jain wrote:>> Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to some > misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not studied in depth > but you only have faith, because you have been informed like this. So > come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as to whether > astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of science due to > some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the sentiments of > astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only want to > emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let us examine > it and then there will be no question of hurting, because you have > not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are standing in > support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has been > infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology is a > science without knowing the story of other side. I can understand the > problem of astrologer that they will loose their business but if you > are a client then you must have right to know the truth or call an > astrologer in the consumer forum.> > At the time of formulating the astrological principles in early > Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being has > capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This religious > philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet (Sun, Moon, > Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days only sages > had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus after > prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill to predict > solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called grabbing > the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu.> They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and its > duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer donations etc. > to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which is still > being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of everybody > is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this situation, it > was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict the fate of > deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict the fate of > King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate various > astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge of sages > based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These principles > were the key factors for deciding the fate. > > Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never percolated > in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier to learn > such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these principles were > spread to other civilisation and later on developed as Western system.> What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One group > belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology due to > their business considerations (these astrologers always try to fit > past event very precisely within some astrological principle within a > capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and faith etc., > but they are unable to predict any future event. Because astrological > principles lead to diverse predictions and that too diabolical > opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in fluke) may come > true then they start to harp on the same prediction and start self > praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on other > horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only mislead, > create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can find that > only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group (say > scientist) try to raise some logical questions against astrology. But > none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was the level > of information of sages about the Universe, who developed > astrological principles in primitive age and what procedure was > adopted to formulate various principles relating to Lordship, > Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect, Vinshottary > periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles then following > questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in subpara).> > 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among seven > planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ?> > It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the stationary > Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on……….> > 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is enmity and > friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are enemy of each > other) ?> Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and demons over > nector after sea-churning………..> 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect (full, quarter > to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect on seventh > house) ?> Based on the position of army in the battle field………..> > 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are exalted and > debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. of Aries > sign) ?> Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when duration of the > day is more in comparison to night……> 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful and hub of > our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha whereas Venus (a > small planet) has 20 years ?> Based on two triangles derived after working out the effect of > Universe on the basis of lord and exalted……. > 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various constellations between > nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ?> > Kratica was first constellation in Indian scriptures……….> > 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a week > (Sunday, Monday etc.) ?> Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the structure > of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away….. > > 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde motion of > Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)?> On the basis of recurrence of eclipse…..> 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are 180 deg. > apart?> On the basis of recurrence of eclipse………..> 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of eclipse ?> Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation month……….> > Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question as to > whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one gave > answers to these questions then he will realise that entire > astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept of > Universe. > > Everybody may agree that every research is based on the then > knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed by sage > Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is in the > centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed in all > religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read any old > scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas Moon is beyond > Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury and Moon. > You may be surprised to know that all astrological principles are > actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self studying astrology > since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude correct > prediction. But if it is true at one time then same combination is > not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh logically and > systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive concept > (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling in view of > modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive concept of > Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed.> After lot of research I wrote an original book on astrology " Jyotish -> Kitna sahi kitna galat " in Hindi (330 pages). This book contains the > detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles on the basis > of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our sages to > formulate these principles. This book was also published in English > with the title " Astrology a science or myth " (450 pages). You can > realize that this is revolutionary book and will change the face of > predictive astrology in due course. If you interested to know more > about the book or description of various chapters then you may send > email to me. The book is being marketed in USA /UK etc. > Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?produktID=1759836> > http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat%20kumar%> 20jain & TAG= & CID=> > http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx?> ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t> > At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, Neptune nor they > were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to presence of > Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed the concept > of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It was mentioned in > the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came within 14 > degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon). But nobody > will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse when Sun, > Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree respectively on > 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, Moon and Ketu > were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on 03-03-1988 ( > Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar eclipses > occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was more then > 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at 79.04 deg. > on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon were at 76.49 > deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu was 15.14 > deg. away).> To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you will also > find in many modern astrological books that eclipse occurred at the > intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it was not > known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis of myth). > Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse, when Moon > happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be there. But As > per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-1985 and 3-> 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were full solar > eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 degree > respectively. You will agree that when there were full solar eclipses > then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and 166 degree > respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may possible. > Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in almanac. Thus > there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees respectively. All > horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this fundamental > positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you want then I > can give many more examples and very simple method of detecting them.> I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a science but in > primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of astronomy + > psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science, psychology > (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive age) played an > important role in handling a person by the astrologer due to immense > faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology appears to > be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will also agree > with the above observation after going through my original > revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-decided as was > contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may try to do > some thing, because every thing will take place according to pre-> written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of modifying that pre-> written destiny, because if we try to change only our fate, even then > all attached happening will automatically change creating a cascading > effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of every > person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or say pre-> defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when every Tom, > Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship, good deed > etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under change. You > will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical > calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and can never > and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart cannot be > altered it means result of calculation or say prediction is also > fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever prewritten) > by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc. because in > that case, if you like to say, then future events will be altered but > how a calculation of planetary transit or linked prediction can be > changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed transit of > planets?> > Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest assured that > actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. Only astronomy > and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were used > unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it appears correct. > Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a myth. Still if > you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact The James > Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000 prize to > anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-mail and > website is jref and http://www.randi.org Because modern > technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being used to > spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested business > interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight this sort of > ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in this regard > and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology > (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to formulate > principles was neither logical nor based on correct information of > Universe, solar system. > > I will like to have your critical comments for further interaction on > my email sanatkumar_jain . It would be better to know > the roots of astrology and facts, data behind it before falling in > the trap and come forward to join hands because of AIDS (Astrology Is > Damaging Society).> Sanat Kumar Jain> Gwalior> > Reader may directly write to me on my email instead of creating > problems to moderator> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 sanat ji, regarding ur querry about difference in degrees as shown in panchangs and actual timing of eclipse. there is a system in lalkitab known as tewe ki darsuti to sortout such mistakes. so even if a horoscope is made not showing excat position. we can correct the position by this method before analysis. kulbirbainz On 1/15/08, kulbir bains <kulbirbainz wrote: Sanat ji, i will strongly reccomend u read a book titled LIGHT ON LIFE by ROBERT SVABODHA. you will get answers to most of ur querries in this book plus also read ASTROLOGY OF THE SEERS. if u still have some confusion then we can discuss in detail.Nirmal ji is 100 % pertcent correct that most of these querries have simple answers. he has also advisede u to approach step by step approach. lets giove it a try. vedic science talked about atman of trees etc. pranic force was recognised in every living or nonliving entity. intracellular memmory is a recent scientific discovery but u can find it in upnishads veda and other sacred texts. it was written in a simplified manner to give more grasping power to students that why it is in format of stories. study maya civilization calender or lets come back to our hindu texts. Study the book DATING OF AN ERA that deals with dating of events of ramayana based on software planetarium developed by nasa. so much celestial observation in ramayana dated 7000 years old also there are many accounts in mahabharta. what could have been the methodology to study the planets and there orbits in those days. it is not possibl;e to arrive at conclusions by obervations made by naked eye. Pluto has already been deleted from list of planets. please understand the concept of cosmis rays in physics. regarding the time and spans alloted to planets in vimshotri system etc. read any book on krishnamurthi padhiti. but to call the authors of vedas upnishads as illetrates is an insult to our tradtion by a misinformed person. if u still don't fimd answers to ur questions after redaing these books please let us know. we shall try to help u out. this group is not for furtherin any astorloger business but for enlightenment. u have another thing to understand and that is the theory of karma and reincarnation. this very concept forbids predictions being compartmentalised into water tight compartments. planatary postions in horoscope give a hint to our past conducts and advise to charter our future course. planets are just like indicators. just as hands of a watch indicate time of sunrise and sunset but sunset and sunrise are not dependent upon movement of these hands. appeasement of planets is just a sumbolic method to correct our conduct. please go through the books as recommended. then we can move ahead. thanks kulbirbainz. On 1/12/08, Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj <nirbhar > wrote: Dear Sanat,your document has already been in the group file section. You have raised some crucials issues. It would be better if you put your book free of cost on net, so that your ideas reach each and every person. In my opinion,Most of your querries in your letter have simple answers.You have not given your views about these questions.Anyhow we assure you that these will be taken up in future and You are welcome to discuss step by step in the group if you have any doubts about the astrological studies. But Presently we are discussing the LalKitab system.If you have any doubts regarding this system to discuss,you are welcome.RegardsNirmal Kumar ModeratorPS. Without jumping in the Sea one cannot explore its richness. , " sanat2221 " <sanatkumar_jain wrote:>> Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to some > misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not studied in depth > but you only have faith, because you have been informed like this. So > come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as to whether > astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of science due to > some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the sentiments of > astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only want to > emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let us examine > it and then there will be no question of hurting, because you have > not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are standing in > support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has been > infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology is a > science without knowing the story of other side. I can understand the > problem of astrologer that they will loose their business but if you > are a client then you must have right to know the truth or call an > astrologer in the consumer forum.> > At the time of formulating the astrological principles in early > Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being has > capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This religious > philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet (Sun, Moon, > Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days only sages > had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus after > prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill to predict > solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called grabbing > the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu.> They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and its > duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer donations etc. > to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which is still > being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of everybody > is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this situation, it > was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict the fate of > deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict the fate of > King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate various > astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge of sages > based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These principles > were the key factors for deciding the fate. > > Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never percolated > in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier to learn > such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these principles were > spread to other civilisation and later on developed as Western system.> What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One group > belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology due to > their business considerations (these astrologers always try to fit > past event very precisely within some astrological principle within a > capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and faith etc., > but they are unable to predict any future event. Because astrological > principles lead to diverse predictions and that too diabolical > opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in fluke) may come > true then they start to harp on the same prediction and start self > praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on other > horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only mislead, > create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can find that > only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group (say > scientist) try to raise some logical questions against astrology. But > none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was the level > of information of sages about the Universe, who developed > astrological principles in primitive age and what procedure was > adopted to formulate various principles relating to Lordship, > Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect, Vinshottary > periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles then following > questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in subpara).> > 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among seven > planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ?> > It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the stationary > Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on……….> > 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is enmity and > friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are enemy of each > other) ?> Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and demons over > nector after sea-churning………..> 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect (full, quarter > to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect on seventh > house) ?> Based on the position of army in the battle field………..> > 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are exalted and > debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. of Aries > sign) ?> Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when duration of the > day is more in comparison to night……> 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful and hub of > our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha whereas Venus (a > small planet) has 20 years ?> Based on two triangles derived after working out the effect of > Universe on the basis of lord and exalted……. > 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various constellations between > nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ?> > Kratica was first constellation in Indian scriptures……….> > 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a week > (Sunday, Monday etc.) ?> Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the structure > of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away….. > > 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde motion of > Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)?> On the basis of recurrence of eclipse…..> 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are 180 deg. > apart?> On the basis of recurrence of eclipse………..> 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of eclipse ?> Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation month……….> > Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question as to > whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one gave > answers to these questions then he will realise that entire > astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept of > Universe. > > Everybody may agree that every research is based on the then > knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed by sage > Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is in the > centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed in all > religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read any old > scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas Moon is beyond > Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury and Moon. > You may be surprised to know that all astrological principles are > actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self studying astrology > since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude correct > prediction. But if it is true at one time then same combination is > not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh logically and > systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive concept > (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling in view of > modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive concept of > Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed.> After lot of research I wrote an original book on astrology " Jyotish -> Kitna sahi kitna galat " in Hindi (330 pages). This book contains the > detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles on the basis > of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our sages to > formulate these principles. This book was also published in English > with the title " Astrology a science or myth " (450 pages). You can > realize that this is revolutionary book and will change the face of > predictive astrology in due course. If you interested to know more > about the book or description of various chapters then you may send > email to me. The book is being marketed in USA /UK etc. > Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do?produktID=1759836> > http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat%20kumar%> 20jain & TAG= & CID=> > http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx?> ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t> > At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, Neptune nor they > were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to presence of > Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed the concept > of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It was mentioned in > the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came within 14 > degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon). But nobody > will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse when Sun, > Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree respectively on > 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, Moon and Ketu > were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on 03-03-1988 ( > Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar eclipses > occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was more then > 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at 79.04 deg. > on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon were at 76.49 > deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu was 15.14 > deg. away).> To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you will also > find in many modern astrological books that eclipse occurred at the > intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it was not > known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis of myth). > Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse, when Moon > happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be there. But As > per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-1985 and 3-> 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were full solar > eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 degree > respectively. You will agree that when there were full solar eclipses > then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and 166 degree > respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may possible. > Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in almanac. Thus > there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees respectively. All > horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this fundamental > positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you want then I > can give many more examples and very simple method of detecting them.> I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a science but in > primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of astronomy + > psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science, psychology > (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive age) played an > important role in handling a person by the astrologer due to immense > faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology appears to > be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will also agree > with the above observation after going through my original > revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-decided as was > contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may try to do > some thing, because every thing will take place according to pre-> written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of modifying that pre-> written destiny, because if we try to change only our fate, even then > all attached happening will automatically change creating a cascading > effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of every > person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or say pre-> defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when every Tom, > Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship, good deed > etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under change. You > will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical > calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and can never > and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart cannot be > altered it means result of calculation or say prediction is also > fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever prewritten) > by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc. because in > that case, if you like to say, then future events will be altered but > how a calculation of planetary transit or linked prediction can be > changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed transit of > planets?> > Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest assured that > actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. Only astronomy > and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were used > unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it appears correct. > Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a myth. Still if > you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact The James > Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000 prize to > anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-mail and > website is jref and http://www.randi.org Because modern > technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being used to > spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested business > interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight this sort of > ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in this regard > and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology > (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to formulate > principles was neither logical nor based on correct information of > Universe, solar system. > > I will like to have your critical comments for further interaction on > my email sanatkumar_jain . It would be better to know > the roots of astrology and facts, data behind it before falling in > the trap and come forward to join hands because of AIDS (Astrology Is > Damaging Society).> Sanat Kumar Jain> Gwalior> > Reader may directly write to me on my email instead of creating > problems to moderator> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Respected sanat ji You have done a marvellous job.Your labour and hard work is appreciable.Regarding astronomical points you raised, answers are there as Nirmal ji mentioned.But regarding prediction you are absolutely correct.It is shocking that no pridiction technique is available in the method you studied upto 35 years.All nonsense.In fact you have waisted your time on studying yavan jyotish like others.IT IS NOT VEDIC ASTROLOGY. TO GIVE A LOOK TO VEDIC ERA it is clear that the means and use of so called astrology were different at that time.They are : 1 1) To calculate quality of time(muhurat). 2) To make judgement about the TATAVA(five elements) of jatak to fix his line of action in physical as well as spiritual world.I will request you to study Lalkitab A RARE METHOD ,in my view TRUE VEDIC ASTROLOGY, TO SATISFY YOUR INNER BEING. Again, I, salute you for your work and your true devotion to search your roots.. pardeep sharmasanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain wrote: Astrology a science or mythDear Bhardwaj Ji,Namaskar,Thanks for your comments and suggestion of putting the book on net. But it cannot be done because now it will be against copyright of publisher and Hindi book "Jyotish Kitna Sahi Kitna galat" has original research based 325 pages, which is not a small book.>>>>> In my opinion,Most of your querries in your letter have simple answers <<<<<<<<<It may be, but if you have these simple answers then I am waiting for that, and if you have these logical answers in view of the then primitive knowledge then you may also know that these astrological principles are not logical in view of modern knowledge, which is quite against the primitive concept.>>>>>>>>You have not given your views about these questions.<< <<<<<<It is not correct, I have given a hint for every question and for detail analysis and procedure adopted to formulate all astrological principles you have to go through the book "Jyotish Kitna Sahi Kitna galat".>>>>>>>discuss step by step in the group if you have any doubts about the astrological studies.<<<< <<<I have already raised many points or doubts in astrological principles now it is your turn to answer, yes, you can answer step by step.>>>>>>Presently we are discussing the LalKitab system.If you have any doubts regarding this system to discuss<<<<< <<The remedies of LK is for correcting effect of planets. When I am raising questions against astrology it-self then it is obvious that LK is being questioned. Life is not so easy which can be moulded (because we have to mould others life for getting some thing for our life) by some curd, almond, rise, ice, oil etc. If you change the course of anyone's life with socalled remedies then where is the prediction which is fixed because birth horoscope and transit of the planets and their effect as worked out after applying the astrological principles are fixed. And if you change some effect (as you claim) then it will generate cascading effect, which in turn will change the future of every one not alone the individual who is carrying out the remedy.So long every one is in the grip of Saturn from both ends (black hair and footwear) with Mars in between (tounge and blood) you can not cure planets. Thus you may start to suggest for shaving the head of women without footwear and spilt the tounge and try to remove the blood only then some one can be cured from the ill effect of planets. IS IT POSSIBLE ???We Indians are very simple with little ambitions and do not want to take pains and always try to get some shortcut by this way or that way. BUT THERE IS NO SHORTCUT OF SUCCESS IN LIFE. However, individual with weak mental status may be lured to correct every odd of the life with some curd or almond. If it would have been so simple then there is no need of any school, hospital and law etc. because every thing would have achieved with some remedy either competition or business or illness and so on. Thus actually by supporting such concept we are underestimating the labour of sincere hard working individuals.>>>>>>>PS. Without jumping in the Sea one cannot explore its richness.<<< <<<<How you can say so when I am studying astrology since last 35 years and try to conclude any one correct principle. If you have any one correct principle then Please let me know. I am also uploading a file "Eskain Kundali" in your file section by which you can see that I myself developed and drawn a horoscope covering all sort of astrological principles for concluding any correct prediction with so many self developedsoftwares.Heartly thanks for your comments.Hope now you will go through my entire blog. Hope to hear soon.Yours truly,SanatReaders may write on my email Sanatkumar_jain@ rediffmail. com, "Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj" <nirbhar > wrote:>> Dear Sanat,> your document has already been in the group file section. You have > raised some crucials issues. It would be better if you put your book > free of cost on net, so that your ideas reach each and every person. > In my opinion,Most of your querries in your letter have simple > answers.You have not given your views about these questions.Anyhow we > assure you that these will be taken up in future and You are welcome > to discuss step by step in the group if you have any doubts about the > astrological studies. But Presently we are discussing the LalKitab > system.If you have any doubts regarding this system to discuss,you > are welcome.> Regards> Nirmal Kumar > Moderator> PS. Without jumping in the Sea one cannot explore its richness.> > , > "sanat2221" <sanatkumar_ jain@> wrote:> >> > Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to some > > misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not studied in > depth > > but you only have faith, because you have been informed like this. > So > > come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as to whether > > astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of science due to > > some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the sentiments of > > astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only want to > > emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let us > examine > > it and then there will be no question of hurting, because you have > > not formulated the principles.. But unfortunately you are standing > in > > support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has been > > infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology is a > > science without knowing the story of other side. I can understand > the > > problem of astrologer that they will loose their business but if > you > > are a client then you must have right to know the truth or call an > > astrologer in the consumer forum.> > > > At the time of formulating the astrological principles in early > > Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being has > > capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This > religious > > philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet (Sun, Moon, > > Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days only > sages > > had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus after > > prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill to > predict > > solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called grabbing > > the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu.> > They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and its > > duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer donations > etc. > > to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which is still > > being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of > everybody > > is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this situation, it > > was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict the fate of > > deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict the fate > of > > King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate various > > astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge of sages > > based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These > principles > > were the key factors for deciding the fate. > > > > Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never > percolated > > in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier to learn > > such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these principles were > > spread to other civilisation and later on developed as Western > system.> > What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One group > > belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology due to > > their business considerations (these astrologers always try to fit > > past event very precisely within some astrological principle within > a > > capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and faith etc., > > but they are unable to predict any future event. Because > astrological > > principles lead to diverse predictions and that too diabolical > > opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in fluke) may > come > > true then they start to harp on the same prediction and start self > > praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on other > > horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only mislead, > > create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can find > that > > only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group (say > > scientist) try to raise some logical questions against astrology. > But > > none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was the > level > > of information of sages about the Universe, who developed > > astrological principles in primitive age and what procedure was > > adopted to formulate various principles relating to Lordship, > > Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated , Aspect, Vinshottary > > periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles then > following > > questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in subpara).> > > > 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among seven > > planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ?> > > > It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the stationary > > Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on………..> > > > 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is enmity and > > friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are enemy of > each > > other) ?> > Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and demons over > > nector after sea-churning………..> > 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect (full, > quarter > > to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect on seventh > > house) ?> > Based on the position of army in the battle field………..> > > > 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are exalted and > > debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. of Aries > > sign) ?> > Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when duration of the > > day is more in comparison to night……> > 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful and hub > of > > our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha whereas Venus > (a > > small planet) has 20 years ?> > Based on two triangles derived after working out the effect of > > Universe on the basis of lord and exalted…….> > 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various constellations > between > > nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ?> > > > Kratica was first constellation in Indian scriptures……….> > > > 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a week > > (Sunday, Monday etc.) ?> > Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the structure > > of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away…..> > > > 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde motion of > > Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)?> > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse…..> > 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are 180 deg. > > apart?> > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse………..> > 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of eclipse ?> > Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation month……….> > > > Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question as to > > whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one gave > > answers to these questions then he will realise that entire > > astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept of > > Universe.> > > > Everybody may agree that every research is based on the then > > knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed by sage > > Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is in the > > centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed in all > > religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read any old > > scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas Moon is > beyond > > Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury and Moon. > > You may be surprised to know that all astrological principles are > > actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self studying > astrology > > since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude correct > > prediction. But if it is true at one time then same combination is > > not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh logically and > > systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive concept > > (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling in view of > > modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive concept > of > > Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed.> > After lot of research I wrote an original book on astrology > "Jyotish -> > Kitna sahi kitna galat" in Hindi (330 pages). This book contains > the > > detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles on the > basis > > of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our sages to > > formulate these principles. This book was also published in English > > with the title "Astrology a science or myth" (450 pages). You can > > realize that this is revolutionary book and will change the face of > > predictive astrology in due course. If you interested to know more > > about the book or description of various chapters then you may send > > email to me. The book is being marketed in USA /UK etc. > > Refer http://www.bokklubb en.no/samboweb/ produkt.do?produktID=1759836> > > > http://www.thebookp lace.com/ bookplace/ results-asp? AUB=sanat%20kumar%> > 20jain & TAG= & CID=> > > > http://www.aggarwal overseas. com/booksdetail. aspx?> > ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t> > > > At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, Neptune nor > they > > were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to presence > of > > Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed the > concept > > of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11". It was mentioned > in > > the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came within 14 > > degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon). But > nobody > > will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse when > Sun, > > Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree respectively > on > > 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, Moon and > Ketu > > were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on 03-03-1988 > ( > > Ketu was within 10..52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar eclipses > > occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was more then > > 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at 79.04 > deg. > > on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon were at > 76.49 > > deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu was 15.14 > > deg. away).> > To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you will also > > find in many modern astrological books that eclipse occurred at the > > intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it was not > > known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis of > myth). > > Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse, when Moon > > happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be there. But > As > > per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-1985 and > 3-> > 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were full solar > > eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 degree > > respectively. You will agree that when there were full solar > eclipses > > then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and 166 > degree > > respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may possible. > > Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in almanac. > Thus > > there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees respectively. > All > > horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this fundamental > > positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you want then > I > > can give many more examples and very simple method of detecting > them.> > I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a science but in > > primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of astronomy + > > psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science, psychology > > (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive age) played > an > > important role in handling a person by the astrologer due to > immense > > faith over astrology+astrologe r hence predictive astrology appears > to > > be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will also agree > > with the above observation after going through my original > > revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-decided as was > > contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may try to > do > > some thing, because every thing will take place according to pre-> > written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of modifying that > pre-> > written destiny, because if we try to change only our fate, even > then > > all attached happening will automatically change creating a > cascading > > effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of every > > person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or say pre-> > defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when every > Tom, > > Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship, good deed > > etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under change. > You > > will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical > > calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and can never > > and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart cannot be > > altered it means result of calculation or say prediction is also > > fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever > prewritten) > > by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc. because in > > that case, if you like to say, then future events will be altered > but > > how a calculation of planetary transit or linked prediction can be > > changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed transit of > > planets?> > > > Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest assured > that > > actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. Only > astronomy > > and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were used > > unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it appears > correct. > > Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a myth. Still > if > > you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact The James > > Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000 prize to > > anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-mail and > > website is jref@ and http://www.randi. org Because modern > > technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being used to > > spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested business > > interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight this sort > of > > ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in this regard > > and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology > > (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to formulate > > principles was neither logical nor based on correct information of > > Universe, solar system.> > > > I will like to have your critical comments for further interaction > on > > my email sanatkumar_jain@ . It would be better to know > > the roots of astrology and facts, data behind it before falling in > > the trap and come forward to join hands because of AIDS (Astrology > Is > > Damaging Society).> > Sanat Kumar Jain> > Gwalior> > > > Reader may directly write to me on my email instead of creating > > problems to moderator> >> Download prohibited? No problem. CHAT from any browser, without download. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Astrology a science or myth Dear Kulbir Ji, Namaskar, Thanks for your comments on my mail. I have raised some very basic questions as to how all these astrological principles were formulated. Which have not yet been answered. Though answer to these question were hinted in the blog itself and in my book in detail. Let us continue our interaction with your suggestions for correcting the mistake of Rahu Ketu >>>>. there is a system in lalkitab known as tewe ki darsuti to sortout such mistakes <<<<<<< How you can correct a horoscope when lalkitab changes all sign according to Lagn, which always starts from Aries sign. Thus lalkitab totally destroying the link between planet and sign then how it can correct the mistake of 12 deg. and so on. Thus you are admitting that all panchang, softwares are wrong and we have to correct each and every horoscope. > i will strongly reccomend u read a book titled LIGHT ON LIFE by > ROBERT SVABODHA. you will get answers to most of ur querries in this book > plus also read ASTROLOGY OF THE SEERS. <<<<<<<<<< Astrological predictive principles has nothing to do with the philosophy of life, atma etc. They were simply created to know the unknown (future) irrespective of the fact as to how that future was created, which is the department of religion and philosophy etc. >>>>>>>>>>Nirmal ji is 100 % pertcent correct that most of these querries have simple answers.<<<<<<<< I am waiting for these simple answers >>>>>>>>>vedic science talked about atman of trees etc. pranic force was recognised in every living or nonliving entity. intracellular memmory is a recent scientific discovery but u can find it in upnishads veda and other sacred texts.<<<<<<<<<< I will again say that Astrological predictive principles has nothing to do with the philosophy of life, atma etc. >>>>>>> study maya civilization calender or lets come back to our hindu texts.<<<<<< Concept of Maya civilization was totally different from the concept of our sages. Moreover their astrological predictive principles have not been incorporated in our astrological principles hence it will be totally out of place to discuss this point. >>>>>>> the book DATING OF AN ERA that deals with dating of events of ramayana based > on software planetarium developed by nasa. so much celestial observation in > ramayana dated 7000 years old also there are many accounts in mahabharta.<<<<<<<< Where is the reference that Ram or Krishna or Ravan or Duryodhan have asked any astrologer for marriage, war etc. or try to use some remedy like mentioned in Lal kitab. (though lal kitab was not available at that time but whether some totke were ever used) Valmiki while writing the ramayan around 300 BC simply gave the narration planetary position which was also not correct. So don't be lured by any out put of a software. Moreover it is not the point of discussion. If you want then we can discuss it afterwards. >>>>>>>> what could have been the methodology to study the planets and there orbits in those days. it is not possibl;e to arrive at conclusions by observations made by naked eye. <<<<<<< OK when you say that it is not possible to arrive at conclusions on the observation of naked eye then why are you following the principles made on the basis of wrong conclusion derived after observation by naked eye. The concept of orbit in those days was totally different from the modern concept. Detail is available in my book " Jyotish kitna sahi kitna galat " . >>>>>>Pluto has already been deleted from list of planets.<<<<<< It has nothing to do with the astrological predictive principles. Also forget about Uranus Neptune who are still planets because they are not in predictive astrological principles. > please understand the concept of cosmis rays in physics.<<<<<<< Which branch or science claims that planets except Sun (which is not a planet) has cosmic rays. >>>>>> regarding the time and spans alloted to planets in vimshotri system etc. read any book on krishnamurthi padhiti. <<<<<<<<< KP has nothing to do with the explanation as to how mearly 6 years was allotted to Sun and 20 years to tiny Venus. Moreover Sub, Subsub system was only a reverse order of the Vinshottary dasha in constellations. Thus it is based on VD, which I am already asking. >>>>>>>>but to call the authors of vedas upnishads as illetrates is an insult to our tradtion by a misinformed person. <<<<<< Where I have said that they are illetrates. You are simply putting these words. I am saying that there concept may be correct in view of the then knowledge but it is not correct in view of modern concept. Hence their principles can not be supported. It means that if primitive sages were liting the fire with the help of rubbing of wood then it was best in view of the then knowledge but you can not say that that knowledge was best and we must not use lighter or matchstick. >>>>>>if u still don't fimd answers to ur questions after redaing these books please let us > know. we shall try to help u out. this group is not for furtherin any > astorloger business but for enlightenment. <<<<<<<< I have mentioned in my blog that I am studying astrology since last 35-40 years so do you think that I have not gone through all these books. I am waiting for my enlightenment. >>>>>>u have another thing to understand and that is the theory of karma and reincarnation. this very > concept forbids predictions being compartmentalised into water tight compartments. <<<<<<<< Again I will say that Astrological predictive principles has nothing to do with the philosophy of life, atma etc. They were simply created to know the unknown (future) irrespective of the fact as to how that future was created, which is the department of religion and philosophy etc., which is a different direction and I am not discussing that side. >>>>>>>>planatary postions in horoscope give a hint to our past conducts and advise to charter our future course. planets are just like indicators. just as hands of a watch indicate time of sunrise and sunset but sunset and sunrise are not dependent upon movement of these hands.<<<<<<< I am not concerned with my past conduct. It is like that if I committed a crime (past conduct) than I am not asking with the lawyer (astrologer) that what I have done but I am simply asking that what will happen (judgement) in future and how I can save myself (from punishment) by some remedy (suggested in lalkitab or ring, pooja etc.). If planets are simply indicator like hands of watch then why are you referring cosmic effect, and appleasement of planets by some offering etc. So do you think by such act they will turn their movement or will not exert cosmic effect (according to you). >>> appeasement of planets is just a sumbolic method to correct our conduct.<<<<<<< So is their any logic that any planet who is crores of miles away will be appeased by some symbolic foolish act of wearing or offering etc. It is only a business tact which is being promoted by gem sellers, astrologers and simple minded public falls in the trap. Thanks for your valuable comments and hope you will come forward with some logical reply. Yours Sanat (reader may write to me on my email sanatkumar_jain) , " kulbir bains " <kulbirbainz wrote: > > Sanat ji, i will strongly reccomend u read a book titled LIGHT ON LIFE by > ROBERT SVABODHA. you will get answers to most of ur querries in this book > plus also read ASTROLOGY OF THE SEERS. if u still have some confusion then > we can discuss in detail.Nirmal ji is 100 % pertcent correct that most of > these querries have simple answers. he has also advisede u to approach step > by step approach. lets giove it a try. vedic science talked about atman of > trees etc. pranic force was recognised in every living or nonliving entity. > intracellular memmory is a recent scientific discovery but u can find it in > upnishads veda and other sacred texts. it was written in a simplified manner > to give more grasping power to students that why it is in format of stories. > study maya civilization calender or lets come back to our hindu texts. Study > the book DATING OF AN ERA that deals with dating of events of ramayana based > on software planetarium developed by nasa. so much celestial observation in > ramayana dated 7000 years old also there are many accounts in mahabharta. > what could have been the methodology to study the planets and there orbits > in those days. it is not possibl;e to arrive at conclusions by obervations > made by naked eye. Pluto has already been deleted from list of planets. > please understand the concept of cosmis rays in physics. regarding the time > and spans alloted to planets in vimshotri system etc. read any book on > krishnamurthi padhiti. but to call the authors of vedas upnishads as > illetrates is an insult to our tradtion by a misinformed person. if u still > don't fimd answers to ur questions after redaing these books please let us > know. we shall try to help u out. this group is not for furtherin any > astorloger business but for enlightenment. u have another thing to > understand and that is the theory of karma and reincarnation. this very > concept forbids predictions being compartmentalised into water tight > compartments. planatary postions in horoscope give a hint to our past > conducts and advise to charter our future course. planets are just like > indicators. just as hands of a watch indicate time of sunrise and sunset but > sunset and sunrise are not dependent upon movement of these hands. > appeasement of planets is just a sumbolic method to correct our conduct. > please go through the books as recommended. then we can move ahead. > thanks > kulbirbainz. > > > On 1/12/08, Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj <nirbhar wrote: > > > > Dear Sanat, > > your document has already been in the group file section. You have > > raised some crucials issues. It would be better if you put your book > > free of cost on net, so that your ideas reach each and every person. > > In my opinion,Most of your querries in your letter have simple > > answers.You have not given your views about these questions.Anyhow we > > assure you that these will be taken up in future and You are welcome > > to discuss step by step in the group if you have any doubts about the > > astrological studies. But Presently we are discussing the LalKitab > > system.If you have any doubts regarding this system to discuss,you > > are welcome. > > Regards > > Nirmal Kumar > > Moderator > > PS. Without jumping in the Sea one cannot explore its richness. > > > > <% 40>, > > " sanat2221 " <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to some > > > misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not studied in > > depth > > > but you only have faith, because you have been informed like this. > > So > > > come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as to whether > > > astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of science due to > > > some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the sentiments of > > > astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only want to > > > emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let us > > examine > > > it and then there will be no question of hurting, because you have > > > not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are standing > > in > > > support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has been > > > infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology is a > > > science without knowing the story of other side. I can understand > > the > > > problem of astrologer that they will loose their business but if > > you > > > are a client then you must have right to know the truth or call an > > > astrologer in the consumer forum. > > > > > > At the time of formulating the astrological principles in early > > > Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being has > > > capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This > > religious > > > philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet (Sun, Moon, > > > Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days only > > sages > > > had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus after > > > prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill to > > predict > > > solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called grabbing > > > the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu. > > > They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and its > > > duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer donations > > etc. > > > to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which is still > > > being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of > > everybody > > > is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this situation, it > > > was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict the fate of > > > deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict the fate > > of > > > King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate various > > > astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge of sages > > > based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These > > principles > > > were the key factors for deciding the fate. > > > > > > Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never > > percolated > > > in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier to learn > > > such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these principles were > > > spread to other civilisation and later on developed as Western > > system. > > > What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One group > > > belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology due to > > > their business considerations (these astrologers always try to fit > > > past event very precisely within some astrological principle within > > a > > > capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and faith etc., > > > but they are unable to predict any future event. Because > > astrological > > > principles lead to diverse predictions and that too diabolical > > > opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in fluke) may > > come > > > true then they start to harp on the same prediction and start self > > > praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on other > > > horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only mislead, > > > create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can find > > that > > > only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group (say > > > scientist) try to raise some logical questions against astrology. > > But > > > none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was the > > level > > > of information of sages about the Universe, who developed > > > astrological principles in primitive age and what procedure was > > > adopted to formulate various principles relating to Lordship, > > > Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect, Vinshottary > > > periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles then > > following > > > questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in subpara). > > > > > > 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among seven > > > planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ? > > > > > > It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the stationary > > > Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on………. > > > > > > 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is enmity and > > > friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are enemy of > > each > > > other) ? > > > Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and demons over > > > nector after sea-churning……….. > > > 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect (full, > > quarter > > > to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect on seventh > > > house) ? > > > Based on the position of army in the battle field……….. > > > > > > 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are exalted and > > > debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. of Aries > > > sign) ? > > > Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when duration of the > > > day is more in comparison to night…… > > > 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful and hub > > of > > > our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha whereas Venus > > (a > > > small planet) has 20 years ? > > > Based on two triangles derived after working out the effect of > > > Universe on the basis of lord and exalted……. > > > 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various constellations > > between > > > nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ? > > > > > > Kratica was first constellation in Indian scriptures………. > > > > > > 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a week > > > (Sunday, Monday etc.) ? > > > Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the structure > > > of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away….. > > > > > > 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde motion of > > > Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)? > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse….. > > > 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are 180 deg. > > > apart? > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse……….. > > > 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of eclipse ? > > > Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation month………. > > > > > > Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question as to > > > whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one gave > > > answers to these questions then he will realise that entire > > > astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept of > > > Universe. > > > > > > Everybody may agree that every research is based on the then > > > knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed by sage > > > Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is in the > > > centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed in all > > > religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read any old > > > scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas Moon is > > beyond > > > Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury and Moon. > > > You may be surprised to know that all astrological principles are > > > actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self studying > > astrology > > > since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude correct > > > prediction. But if it is true at one time then same combination is > > > not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh logically and > > > systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive concept > > > (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling in view of > > > modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive concept > > of > > > Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed. > > > After lot of research I wrote an original book on astrology > > " Jyotish - > > > Kitna sahi kitna galat " in Hindi (330 pages). This book contains > > the > > > detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles on the > > basis > > > of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our sages to > > > formulate these principles. This book was also published in English > > > with the title " Astrology a science or myth " (450 pages). You can > > > realize that this is revolutionary book and will change the face of > > > predictive astrology in due course. If you interested to know more > > > about the book or description of various chapters then you may send > > > email to me. The book is being marketed in USA /UK etc. > > > Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do? produktID=1759836 > > > > > > http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat% 20kumar%<http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat% 20kumar%25> > > > 20jain & TAG= & CID= > > > > > > http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx? > > > ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t > > > > > > At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, Neptune nor > > they > > > were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to presence > > of > > > Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed the > > concept > > > of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It was mentioned > > in > > > the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came within 14 > > > degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon). But > > nobody > > > will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse when > > Sun, > > > Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree respectively > > on > > > 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, Moon and > > Ketu > > > were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on 03-03- 1988 > > ( > > > Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar eclipses > > > occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was more then > > > 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at 79.04 > > deg. > > > on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon were at > > 76.49 > > > deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu was 15.14 > > > deg. away). > > > To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you will also > > > find in many modern astrological books that eclipse occurred at the > > > intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it was not > > > known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis of > > myth). > > > Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse, when Moon > > > happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be there. But > > As > > > per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-1985 and > > 3- > > > 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were full solar > > > eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 degree > > > respectively. You will agree that when there were full solar > > eclipses > > > then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and 166 > > degree > > > respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may possible. > > > Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in almanac. > > Thus > > > there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees respectively. > > All > > > horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this fundamental > > > positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you want then > > I > > > can give many more examples and very simple method of detecting > > them. > > > I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a science but in > > > primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of astronomy + > > > psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science, psychology > > > (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive age) played > > an > > > important role in handling a person by the astrologer due to > > immense > > > faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology appears > > to > > > be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will also agree > > > with the above observation after going through my original > > > revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-decided as was > > > contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may try to > > do > > > some thing, because every thing will take place according to pre- > > > written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of modifying that > > pre- > > > written destiny, because if we try to change only our fate, even > > then > > > all attached happening will automatically change creating a > > cascading > > > effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of every > > > person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or say pre- > > > defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when every > > Tom, > > > Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship, good deed > > > etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under change. > > You > > > will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical > > > calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and can never > > > and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart cannot be > > > altered it means result of calculation or say prediction is also > > > fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever > > prewritten) > > > by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc. because in > > > that case, if you like to say, then future events will be altered > > but > > > how a calculation of planetary transit or linked prediction can be > > > changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed transit of > > > planets? > > > > > > Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest assured > > that > > > actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. Only > > astronomy > > > and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were used > > > unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it appears > > correct. > > > Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a myth. Still > > if > > > you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact The James > > > Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000 prize to > > > anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-mail and > > > website is jref@ and http://www.randi.org Because modern > > > technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being used to > > > spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested business > > > interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight this sort > > of > > > ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in this regard > > > and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology > > > (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to formulate > > > principles was neither logical nor based on correct information of > > > Universe, solar system. > > > > > > I will like to have your critical comments for further interaction > > on > > > my email sanatkumar_jain@ . It would be better to know > > > the roots of astrology and facts, data behind it before falling in > > > the trap and come forward to join hands because of AIDS (Astrology > > Is > > > Damaging Society). > > > Sanat Kumar Jain > > > Gwalior > > > > > > Reader may directly write to me on my email instead of creating > > > problems to moderator > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 sanat ji, on one hand u claim to have done research on indian astrology for 35 years and yet you call tounge as a coming under mars, feet and head under saturn. how do u expect us to enter a debate when u don't have even primary knowledge about indian astrology. please get some knowledge of lalkitab and then we can discuss.the moderator is not going to be disturbed by any objections. please don't have any such apprehensions. i assure he will be more than happy if this group leads someone to clarity. i think pradeep ji is correct that u studied only the yavan system and not indian astrology and philosphy. u should do some more research on energy fields/emitions. meaning of upaya, importance of symbology etc. also read something about sanchit, arjit and prarabadh., shakki and pakka grahas in lalkitab. kulbir , " sanat2221 " <sanatkumar_jain wrote: > > Astrology a science or myth > > Dear Bhardwaj Ji, > Namaskar, > Thanks for your comments and suggestion of putting the book on net. > But it cannot be done because now it will be against copyright of > publisher and Hindi book " Jyotish Kitna Sahi Kitna galat " has > original research based 325 pages, which is not a small book. > > >>>>> In my opinion,Most of your querries in your letter have simple > answers <<<<<<<<< > > It may be, but if you have these simple answers then I am waiting > for that, and if you have these logical answers in view of the then > primitive knowledge then you may also know that these astrological > principles are not logical in view of modern knowledge, which is > quite against the primitive concept. > > >>>>>>>>You have not given your views about these questions.<<<<<<<< > > It is not correct, I have given a hint for every question and for > detail analysis and procedure adopted to formulate all astrological > principles you have to go through the book " Jyotish Kitna Sahi Kitna > galat " . > > >>>>>>>discuss step by step in the group if you have any doubts about > the astrological studies.<<<<<<< > > I have already raised many points or doubts in astrological > principles now it is your turn to answer, yes, you can answer step by > step. > > >>>>>>Presently we are discussing the LalKitab > system.If you have any doubts regarding this system to discuss<<<<<<< > > The remedies of LK is for correcting effect of planets. When I am > raising questions against astrology it-self then it is obvious that > LK is being questioned. Life is not so easy which can be moulded > (because we have to mould others life for getting some thing for our > life) by some curd, almond, rise, ice, oil etc. If you change the > course of anyone's life with socalled remedies then where is the > prediction which is fixed because birth horoscope and transit of the > planets and their effect as worked out after applying the > astrological principles are fixed. And if you change some effect (as > you claim) then it will generate cascading effect, which in turn will > change the future of every one not alone the individual who is > carrying out the remedy. > > So long every one is in the grip of Saturn from both ends (black > hair and footwear) with Mars in between (tounge and blood) you can > not cure planets. Thus you may start to suggest for shaving the head > of women without footwear and spilt the tounge and try to remove the > blood only then some one can be cured from the ill effect of > planets. IS IT POSSIBLE ??? > > We Indians are very simple with little ambitions and do not want to > take pains and always try to get some shortcut by this way or that > way. BUT THERE IS NO SHORTCUT OF SUCCESS IN LIFE. However, > individual with weak mental status may be lured to correct every odd > of the life with some curd or almond. If it would have been so > simple then there is no need of any school, hospital and law etc. > because every thing would have achieved with some remedy either > competition or business or illness and so on. Thus actually by > supporting such concept we are underestimating the labour of sincere > hard working individuals. > > >>>>>>>PS. Without jumping in the Sea one cannot explore its > richness.<<<<<<< > How you can say so when I am studying astrology since last 35 years > and try to conclude any one correct principle. If you have any one > correct principle then Please let me know. I am also uploading a > file " Eskain Kundali " in your file section by which you can see > that I myself developed and drawn a horoscope covering all sort of > astrological principles for concluding any correct prediction with > so many self developed > softwares. > > Heartly thanks for your comments. > Hope now you will go through my entire blog. Hope to hear soon. > Yours truly, > > > Sanat > Readers may write on my email Sanatkumar_jain > > > > > , " Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj " > <nirbhar@> wrote: > > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 DEAR SANAT JEE, mein aapko LK ke baare mein kuchh bata raha hoon kripya iss par kuchh reaschr karen. Jis jatak ka rahu 8th house mein ho aur sun 4th house mein ho app usko sikka (led) jal prvah karva kar dekhe kya result milta hai iss tarah ke 50 jatak talash karen or study karen. Iss tarah kee kuchh or bhee baaten apko milengi ya mein bata doonga or study karen LK par aapka swagat hai.jyotish sahi ya galat iss behas mein nahi padna chahta aap LK ke result dekhiye. JAGMOHAN , " kulbirbains " <kulbirbainz wrote: > > sanat ji, on one hand u claim to have done research on indian > astrology for 35 years and yet you call tounge as a coming under > mars, feet and head under saturn. how do u expect us to enter a > debate when u don't have even primary knowledge about indian > astrology. > please get some knowledge of lalkitab and then we can discuss.the > moderator is not going to be disturbed by any objections. please > don't have any such apprehensions. i assure he will be more than > happy if this group leads someone to clarity. i think pradeep ji is > correct that u studied only the yavan system and not indian > astrology and philosphy. u should do some more research on energy > fields/emitions. meaning of upaya, importance of symbology etc. also > read something about sanchit, arjit and prarabadh., shakki and pakka > grahas in lalkitab. > kulbir > , " sanat2221 " > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > Astrology a science or myth > > > > Dear Bhardwaj Ji, > > Namaskar, > > Thanks for your comments and suggestion of putting the book on > net. > > But it cannot be done because now it will be against copyright of > > publisher and Hindi book " Jyotish Kitna Sahi Kitna galat " has > > original research based 325 pages, which is not a small book. > > > > >>>>> In my opinion,Most of your querries in your letter have > simple > > answers <<<<<<<<< > > > > It may be, but if you have these simple answers then I am waiting > > for that, and if you have these logical answers in view of the > then > > primitive knowledge then you may also know that these astrological > > principles are not logical in view of modern knowledge, which is > > quite against the primitive concept. > > > > >>>>>>>>You have not given your views about these > questions.<<<<<<<< > > > > It is not correct, I have given a hint for every question and for > > detail analysis and procedure adopted to formulate all > astrological > > principles you have to go through the book " Jyotish Kitna Sahi > Kitna > > galat " . > > > > >>>>>>>discuss step by step in the group if you have any doubts > about > > the astrological studies.<<<<<<< > > > > I have already raised many points or doubts in astrological > > principles now it is your turn to answer, yes, you can answer step > by > > step. > > > > >>>>>>Presently we are discussing the LalKitab > > system.If you have any doubts regarding this system to > discuss<<<<<<< > > > > The remedies of LK is for correcting effect of planets. When I am > > raising questions against astrology it-self then it is obvious > that > > LK is being questioned. Life is not so easy which can be moulded > > (because we have to mould others life for getting some thing for > our > > life) by some curd, almond, rise, ice, oil etc. If you change the > > course of anyone's life with socalled remedies then where is the > > prediction which is fixed because birth horoscope and transit of > the > > planets and their effect as worked out after applying the > > astrological principles are fixed. And if you change some effect > (as > > you claim) then it will generate cascading effect, which in turn > will > > change the future of every one not alone the individual who is > > carrying out the remedy. > > > > So long every one is in the grip of Saturn from both ends (black > > hair and footwear) with Mars in between (tounge and blood) you > can > > not cure planets. Thus you may start to suggest for shaving the > head > > of women without footwear and spilt the tounge and try to remove > the > > blood only then some one can be cured from the ill effect of > > planets. IS IT POSSIBLE ??? > > > > We Indians are very simple with little ambitions and do not want > to > > take pains and always try to get some shortcut by this way or that > > way. BUT THERE IS NO SHORTCUT OF SUCCESS IN LIFE. However, > > individual with weak mental status may be lured to correct every > odd > > of the life with some curd or almond. If it would have been so > > simple then there is no need of any school, hospital and law etc. > > because every thing would have achieved with some remedy either > > competition or business or illness and so on. Thus actually by > > supporting such concept we are underestimating the labour of > sincere > > hard working individuals. > > > > >>>>>>>PS. Without jumping in the Sea one cannot explore its > > richness.<<<<<<< > > How you can say so when I am studying astrology since last 35 > years > > and try to conclude any one correct principle. If you have any one > > correct principle then Please let me know. I am also uploading > a > > file " Eskain Kundali " in your file section by which you can see > > that I myself developed and drawn a horoscope covering all sort > of > > astrological principles for concluding any correct prediction > with > > so many self developed > > softwares. > > > > Heartly thanks for your comments. > > Hope now you will go through my entire blog. Hope to hear soon. > > Yours truly, > > > > > > Sanat > > Readers may write on my email Sanatkumar_jain@ > > > > > > > > > > , " Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj " > > <nirbhar@> wrote: > > > > >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Dear Kulbir Ji, Namaskar, Thanks for your comments. I was searching as to where I wrote you like >>>>>>……….. yet you call tounge as a coming under mars, feet and head under saturn…………<<<<<<<< After searching I find that I wrote this to Sh Bhardwaj ji, and that to on the comments on the doubt on LK. But you have just picked in an in between para which was just a sarcastic remarks on the concept of LK, which says that red colour represent Mars and black colour is Saturn that's why I wrote that remarks. I hope you will again go through the entire mail to sh. Bhardwaj Ji and if you want to continue that mail then let me have your point wise reply so that we may proceed in some direction otherwise we will be nowhere and will continue to jump from one point to other like frogs. You wrote that >>>>>>>>. i think pradeep ji is correct that u studied only the yavan system and not indian astrology and philosphy.<<<<<<< Again you have raised a point which was raised by Sh pradeep Ji and the same has also been answered. I hope you will like to read the answer and if interested may continue the point. I also answered your entire mail with answer on almost each line. I hope now you will come with some logical answer and I will like to inform you again that when I am saying that I am studying astrology since last 35 years it means I would have studied something on almost all branches including LK, otherwise my book would not have been marketed in USA/ UK in 60 dollars (refer link in original blog). But basically planetary astrology is behind all sort of techniques hence I am only hitting in this direction. Though it is your liking that in which direction you want to move. I will again like to say that without planetary astrology, which you are terming as Yavan astrology, LK has no value because root concept which you are treating with curd, oil etc. is planets. I am also waiting for the valuable comments of Sh. Bhardwaj ji and Pradeep Ji on their mail and your pointwise comments on this and my previous mail to you Thanks, Yours Sanat (I have little time on Inet hence I may be little late but I try to answer every mail on all points. In case of my longer delay any one can remind me on my email sanatkumar_jain) Re: ASTROLOGY A SCIENCE OR MYTH Posted by: " kulbirbains " kulbirbainz kulbirbains Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:04 am (PST) sanat ji, on one hand u claim to have done research on indian astrology for 35 years and yet you call tounge as a coming under mars, feet and head under saturn. how do u expect us to enter a debate when u don't have even primary knowledge about indian astrology. please get some knowledge of lalkitab and then we can discuss.the moderator is not going to be disturbed by any objections. please don't have any such apprehensions. i assure he will be more than happy if this group leads someone to clarity. i think pradeep ji is correct that u studied only the yavan system and not indian astrology and philosphy. u should do some more research on energy fields/emitions. meaning of upaya, importance of symbology etc. also read something about sanchit, arjit and prarabadh., shakki and pakka grahas in lalkitab. kulbir , " Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj " <nirbhar wrote: > > Dear Sanat, > your document has already been in the group file section. You have > raised some crucials issues. It would be better if you put your book > free of cost on net, so that your ideas reach each and every person. > In my opinion,Most of your querries in your letter have simple > answers.You have not given your views about these questions.Anyhow we > assure you that these will be taken up in future and You are welcome > to discuss step by step in the group if you have any doubts about the > astrological studies. But Presently we are discussing the LalKitab > system.If you have any doubts regarding this system to discuss,you > are welcome. > Regards > Nirmal Kumar > Moderator > PS. Without jumping in the Sea one cannot explore its richness. > > , > " sanat2221 " <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to some > > misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not studied in > depth > > but you only have faith, because you have been informed like this. > So > > come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as to whether > > astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of science due to > > some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the sentiments of > > astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only want to > > emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let us > examine > > it and then there will be no question of hurting, because you have > > not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are standing > in > > support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has been > > infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology is a > > science without knowing the story of other side. I can understand > the > > problem of astrologer that they will loose their business but if > you > > are a client then you must have right to know the truth or call an > > astrologer in the consumer forum. > > > > At the time of formulating the astrological principles in early > > Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being has > > capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This > religious > > philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet (Sun, Moon, > > Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days only > sages > > had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus after > > prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill to > predict > > solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called grabbing > > the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu. > > They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and its > > duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer donations > etc. > > to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which is still > > being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of > everybody > > is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this situation, it > > was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict the fate of > > deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict the fate > of > > King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate various > > astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge of sages > > based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These > principles > > were the key factors for deciding the fate. > > > > Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never > percolated > > in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier to learn > > such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these principles were > > spread to other civilisation and later on developed as Western > system. > > What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One group > > belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology due to > > their business considerations (these astrologers always try to fit > > past event very precisely within some astrological principle within > a > > capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and faith etc., > > but they are unable to predict any future event. Because > astrological > > principles lead to diverse predictions and that too diabolical > > opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in fluke) may > come > > true then they start to harp on the same prediction and start self > > praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on other > > horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only mislead, > > create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can find > that > > only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group (say > > scientist) try to raise some logical questions against astrology. > But > > none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was the > level > > of information of sages about the Universe, who developed > > astrological principles in primitive age and what procedure was > > adopted to formulate various principles relating to Lordship, > > Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect, Vinshottary > > periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles then > following > > questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in subpara). > > > > 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among seven > > planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ? > > > > It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the stationary > > Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on………. > > > > 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is enmity and > > friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are enemy of > each > > other) ? > > Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and demons over > > nector after sea-churning……….. > > 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect (full, > quarter > > to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect on seventh > > house) ? > > Based on the position of army in the battle field……….. > > > > 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are exalted and > > debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. of Aries > > sign) ? > > Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when duration of the > > day is more in comparison to night…… > > 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful and hub > of > > our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha whereas Venus > (a > > small planet) has 20 years ? > > Based on two triangles derived after working out the effect of > > Universe on the basis of lord and exalted……. > > 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various constellations > between > > nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ? > > > > Kratica was first constellation in Indian scriptures………. > > > > 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a week > > (Sunday, Monday etc.) ? > > Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the structure > > of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away….. > > > > 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde motion of > > Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)? > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse….. > > 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are 180 deg. > > apart? > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse……….. > > 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of eclipse ? > > Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation month………. > > > > Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question as to > > whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one gave > > answers to these questions then he will realise that entire > > astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept of > > Universe. > > > > Everybody may agree that every research is based on the then > > knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed by sage > > Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is in the > > centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed in all > > religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read any old > > scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas Moon is > beyond > > Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury and Moon. > > You may be surprised to know that all astrological principles are > > actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self studying > astrology > > since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude correct > > prediction. But if it is true at one time then same combination is > > not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh logically and > > systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive concept > > (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling in view of > > modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive concept > of > > Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed. > > After lot of research I wrote an original book on astrology > " Jyotish - > > Kitna sahi kitna galat " in Hindi (330 pages). This book contains > the > > detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles on the > basis > > of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our sages to > > formulate these principles. This book was also published in English > > with the title " Astrology a science or myth " (450 pages). You can > > realize that this is revolutionary book and will change the face of > > predictive astrology in due course. If you interested to know more > > about the book or description of various chapters then you may send > > email to me. The book is being marketed in USA /UK etc. > > Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do? produktID=1759836 > > > > http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat% 20kumar% > > 20jain & TAG= & CID= > > > > http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx? > > ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t > > > > At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, Neptune nor > they > > were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to presence > of > > Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed the > concept > > of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It was mentioned > in > > the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came within 14 > > degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon). But > nobody > > will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse when > Sun, > > Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree respectively > on > > 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, Moon and > Ketu > > were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on 03-03- 1988 > ( > > Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar eclipses > > occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was more then > > 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at 79.04 > deg. > > on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon were at > 76.49 > > deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu was 15.14 > > deg. away). > > To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you will also > > find in many modern astrological books that eclipse occurred at the > > intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it was not > > known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis of > myth). > > Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse, when Moon > > happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be there. But > As > > per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-1985 and > 3- > > 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were full solar > > eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 degree > > respectively. You will agree that when there were full solar > eclipses > > then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and 166 > degree > > respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may possible. > > Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in almanac. > Thus > > there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees respectively. > All > > horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this fundamental > > positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you want then > I > > can give many more examples and very simple method of detecting > them. > > I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a science but in > > primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of astronomy + > > psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science, psychology > > (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive age) played > an > > important role in handling a person by the astrologer due to > immense > > faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology appears > to > > be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will also agree > > with the above observation after going through my original > > revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-decided as was > > contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may try to > do > > some thing, because every thing will take place according to pre- > > written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of modifying that > pre- > > written destiny, because if we try to change only our fate, even > then > > all attached happening will automatically change creating a > cascading > > effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of every > > person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or say pre- > > defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when every > Tom, > > Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship, good deed > > etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under change. > You > > will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical > > calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and can never > > and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart cannot be > > altered it means result of calculation or say prediction is also > > fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever > prewritten) > > by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc. because in > > that case, if you like to say, then future events will be altered > but > > how a calculation of planetary transit or linked prediction can be > > changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed transit of > > planets? > > > > Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest assured > that > > actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. Only > astronomy > > and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were used > > unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it appears > correct. > > Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a myth. Still > if > > you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact The James > > Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000 prize to > > anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-mail and > > website is jref@ and http://www.randi.org Because modern > > technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being used to > > spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested business > > interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight this sort > of > > ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in this regard > > and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology > > (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to formulate > > principles was neither logical nor based on correct information of > > Universe, solar system. > > > > I will like to have your critical comments for further interaction > on > > my email sanatkumar_jain@ . It would be better to know > > the roots of astrology and facts, data behind it before falling in > > the trap and come forward to join hands because of AIDS (Astrology > Is > > Damaging Society). > > Sanat Kumar Jain > > Gwalior > > > > Reader may directly write to me on my email instead of creating > > problems to moderator > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2008 Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 Dear Sanat Ji, Almost all the points raised by you, came to my mind when I completed my graduation(Rishi) in astrology course in the institute. You have rightly said that a new breed of astrologer is emerging strongly, who by hook and crook justify any event by putting any of the the several rules of astrology. We term these astrologers as 'Postmortem Astrologers', specialist of doing postmortem of an event. Let us come to your queries. I give following quotes from lalKitab " Rashi Chhodi Nakshatra Bhulaya " Means, in this system of astrology Nakshatra and rashis are required.This means all navansha dashaansha etc, digbal, shadbala, lagnesh, astmesh etc not required.Even Rahu and ketu can come in a single house which is not in traditional system of astrology. It means that we should keep apart what we read so far in other system of astrology. Regarding other queries of eclipse etc,it is a chapter of astronomy and every answer lies there. what our ancient edicts say about it, I cannot comment upon it as I do not know Sanskrit and I have not read any original books because of lack of Sanskrit knowledge. Terming any research wrong on the basis of any translated material is not justified as far as me is concerned. Since you have read the original material you might be saying right. Regarding correcting the planet effect by remedial measures, whether possible or not I will not go in for this debate like never ending story . Ayurvedas rejcts Allopathy, allopathic discard ayurveda, Homoeopathy has its own rules. It is for the user to accept or reject as per there experiences. Similarly in the astrological concepts it is up to the students/user/astrologers to term it as right or wrong depending upon their experiences. You term planets as dead dudes but we dont.We consider each and every surroundings whether living or nonliving, stationery or movable has an effect on human behavior. It may be your own experience that these planets do not effect any body. This debate continue to exist as long as the scientists don't make human being in laboratory and keep the atma or soul in their control. So till then it is free to everybody to consider what he thinks as right. As per Lalkitab theory if one consider-Sun as his own soul & body, the father/dada as -Brihaspati(Guru), Moon as mother or mother like , Mercury as sister,daughter or Bhua, Mars as Brother, Shukkar as Wife or husband, Saturn as Chacha, rahu as Sasur, Ketu as Son, he is not doing any sin. This will not harm the society, it will rather help to knit well the harmony in the families. You may term it as shrugging of your queries, but since we don't use this type of data in these studies therefore it is a waste of time to keep on discussing such useless data. I have seen the 'Eskain Kundli " and truly speaking I could not understand the contents of the kundli. Just put the planetary positions in house, it is suffice. Dear Sanat Ji, you have a research based mind and Lalkitab requires such types of person to explore it. It is welcome step if you start studying this system and bring your research out. I beg pardon if any of my above comments be felt offensive by you. Best Regards Nirmal , " sanat2221 " <sanatkumar_jain wrote: > > Astrology a science or myth > > Dear Bhardwaj Ji, > Namaskar, > Thanks for your comments and suggestion of putting the book on net. > But it cannot be done because now it will be against copyright of > publisher and Hindi book " Jyotish Kitna Sahi Kitna galat " has > original research based 325 pages, which is not a small book. > > >>>>> In my opinion,Most of your querries in your letter have simple > answers <<<<<<<<< > > It may be, but if you have these simple answers then I am waiting > for that, and if you have these logical answers in view of the then > primitive knowledge then you may also know that these astrological > principles are not logical in view of modern knowledge, which is > quite against the primitive concept. > > >>>>>>>>You have not given your views about these questions.<<<<<<<< > > It is not correct, I have given a hint for every question and for > detail analysis and procedure adopted to formulate all astrological > principles you have to go through the book " Jyotish Kitna Sahi Kitna > galat " . > > >>>>>>>discuss step by step in the group if you have any doubts about > the astrological studies.<<<<<<< > > I have already raised many points or doubts in astrological > principles now it is your turn to answer, yes, you can answer step by > step. > > >>>>>>Presently we are discussing the LalKitab > system.If you have any doubts regarding this system to discuss<<<<<<< > > The remedies of LK is for correcting effect of planets. When I am > raising questions against astrology it-self then it is obvious that > LK is being questioned. Life is not so easy which can be moulded > (because we have to mould others life for getting some thing for our > life) by some curd, almond, rise, ice, oil etc. If you change the > course of anyone's life with socalled remedies then where is the > prediction which is fixed because birth horoscope and transit of the > planets and their effect as worked out after applying the > astrological principles are fixed. And if you change some effect (as > you claim) then it will generate cascading effect, which in turn will > change the future of every one not alone the individual who is > carrying out the remedy. > > So long every one is in the grip of Saturn from both ends (black > hair and footwear) with Mars in between (tounge and blood) you can > not cure planets. Thus you may start to suggest for shaving the head > of women without footwear and spilt the tounge and try to remove the > blood only then some one can be cured from the ill effect of > planets. IS IT POSSIBLE ??? > > We Indians are very simple with little ambitions and do not want to > take pains and always try to get some shortcut by this way or that > way. BUT THERE IS NO SHORTCUT OF SUCCESS IN LIFE. However, > individual with weak mental status may be lured to correct every odd > of the life with some curd or almond. If it would have been so > simple then there is no need of any school, hospital and law etc. > because every thing would have achieved with some remedy either > competition or business or illness and so on. Thus actually by > supporting such concept we are underestimating the labour of sincere > hard working individuals. > > >>>>>>>PS. Without jumping in the Sea one cannot explore its > richness.<<<<<<< > How you can say so when I am studying astrology since last 35 years > and try to conclude any one correct principle. If you have any one > correct principle then Please let me know. I am also uploading a > file " Eskain Kundali " in your file section by which you can see > that I myself developed and drawn a horoscope covering all sort of > astrological principles for concluding any correct prediction with > so many self developed > softwares. > > Heartly thanks for your comments. > Hope now you will go through my entire blog. Hope to hear soon. > Yours truly, > > > Sanat > Readers may write on my email Sanatkumar_jain > > > > > , " Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj " > <nirbhar@> wrote: > > > > Dear Sanat, > > your document has already been in the group file section. You have > > raised some crucials issues. It would be better if you put your > book > > free of cost on net, so that your ideas reach each and every > person. > > In my opinion,Most of your querries in your letter have simple > > answers.You have not given your views about these questions.Anyhow > we > > assure you that these will be taken up in future and You are > welcome > > to discuss step by step in the group if you have any doubts about > the > > astrological studies. But Presently we are discussing the LalKitab > > system.If you have any doubts regarding this system to discuss,you > > are welcome. > > Regards > > Nirmal Kumar > > Moderator > > PS. Without jumping in the Sea one cannot explore its richness. > > > > , > > " sanat2221 " <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to some > > > misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not studied in > > depth > > > but you only have faith, because you have been informed like > this. > > So > > > come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as to > whether > > > astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of science due > to > > > some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the sentiments of > > > astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only want > to > > > emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let us > > examine > > > it and then there will be no question of hurting, because you > have > > > not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are standing > > in > > > support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has been > > > infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology is a > > > science without knowing the story of other side. I can understand > > the > > > problem of astrologer that they will loose their business but if > > you > > > are a client then you must have right to know the truth or call > an > > > astrologer in the consumer forum. > > > > > > At the time of formulating the astrological principles in early > > > Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being has > > > capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This > > religious > > > philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet (Sun, > Moon, > > > Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days only > > sages > > > had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus after > > > prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill to > > predict > > > solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called > grabbing > > > the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu. > > > They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and its > > > duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer donations > > etc. > > > to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which is > still > > > being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of > > everybody > > > is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this situation, > it > > > was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict the fate > of > > > deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict the > fate > > of > > > King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate various > > > astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge of > sages > > > based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These > > principles > > > were the key factors for deciding the fate. > > > > > > Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never > > percolated > > > in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier to learn > > > such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these principles > were > > > spread to other civilisation and later on developed as Western > > system. > > > What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One group > > > belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology due to > > > their business considerations (these astrologers always try to > fit > > > past event very precisely within some astrological principle > within > > a > > > capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and faith > etc., > > > but they are unable to predict any future event. Because > > astrological > > > principles lead to diverse predictions and that too diabolical > > > opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in fluke) may > > come > > > true then they start to harp on the same prediction and start > self > > > praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on other > > > horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only > mislead, > > > create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can find > > that > > > only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group (say > > > scientist) try to raise some logical questions against astrology. > > But > > > none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was the > > level > > > of information of sages about the Universe, who developed > > > astrological principles in primitive age and what procedure was > > > adopted to formulate various principles relating to Lordship, > > > Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect, Vinshottary > > > periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles then > > following > > > questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in > subpara). > > > > > > 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among seven > > > planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ? > > > > > > It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the stationary > > > Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on………. > > > > > > 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is enmity and > > > friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are enemy of > > each > > > other) ? > > > Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and demons over > > > nector after sea-churning……….. > > > 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect (full, > > quarter > > > to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect on > seventh > > > house) ? > > > Based on the position of army in the battle field……….. > > > > > > 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are exalted > and > > > debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. of Aries > > > sign) ? > > > Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when duration of > the > > > day is more in comparison to night…… > > > 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful and hub > > of > > > our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha whereas Venus > > (a > > > small planet) has 20 years ? > > > Based on two triangles derived after working out the effect of > > > Universe on the basis of lord and exalted……. > > > 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various constellations > > between > > > nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ? > > > > > > Kratica was first constellation in Indian scriptures………. > > > > > > 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a week > > > (Sunday, Monday etc.) ? > > > Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the > structure > > > of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away….. > > > > > > 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde motion of > > > Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)? > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse….. > > > 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are 180 > deg. > > > apart? > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse……….. > > > 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of eclipse ? > > > Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation month………. > > > > > > Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question as to > > > whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one gave > > > answers to these questions then he will realise that entire > > > astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept of > > > Universe. > > > > > > Everybody may agree that every research is based on the then > > > knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed by sage > > > Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is in the > > > centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed in all > > > religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read any > old > > > scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas Moon is > > beyond > > > Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury and Moon. > > > You may be surprised to know that all astrological principles are > > > actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self studying > > astrology > > > since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude correct > > > prediction. But if it is true at one time then same combination > is > > > not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh logically and > > > systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive > concept > > > (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling in view > of > > > modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive concept > > of > > > Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed. > > > After lot of research I wrote an original book on astrology > > " Jyotish - > > > Kitna sahi kitna galat " in Hindi (330 pages). This book contains > > the > > > detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles on the > > basis > > > of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our sages > to > > > formulate these principles. This book was also published in > English > > > with the title " Astrology a science or myth " (450 pages). You can > > > realize that this is revolutionary book and will change the face > of > > > predictive astrology in due course. If you interested to know > more > > > about the book or description of various chapters then you may > send > > > email to me. The book is being marketed in USA /UK etc. > > > Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do? > produktID=1759836 > > > > > > http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat% > 20kumar% > > > 20jain & TAG= & CID= > > > > > > http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx? > > > ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t > > > > > > At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, Neptune nor > > they > > > were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to presence > > of > > > Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed the > > concept > > > of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It was > mentioned > > in > > > the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came within > 14 > > > degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon). But > > nobody > > > will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse when > > Sun, > > > Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree respectively > > on > > > 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, Moon and > > Ketu > > > were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on 03-03- > 1988 > > ( > > > Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar > eclipses > > > occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was more then > > > 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at 79.04 > > deg. > > > on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon were at > > 76.49 > > > deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu was > 15.14 > > > deg. away). > > > To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you will > also > > > find in many modern astrological books that eclipse occurred at > the > > > intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it was > not > > > known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis of > > myth). > > > Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse, when > Moon > > > happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be there. But > > As > > > per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-1985 > and > > 3- > > > 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were full > solar > > > eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 degree > > > respectively. You will agree that when there were full solar > > eclipses > > > then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and 166 > > degree > > > respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may possible. > > > Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in almanac. > > Thus > > > there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees respectively. > > All > > > horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this > fundamental > > > positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you want > then > > I > > > can give many more examples and very simple method of detecting > > them. > > > I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a science but > in > > > primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of astronomy + > > > psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science, psychology > > > (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive age) > played > > an > > > important role in handling a person by the astrologer due to > > immense > > > faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology > appears > > to > > > be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will also > agree > > > with the above observation after going through my original > > > revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-decided as > was > > > contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may try to > > do > > > some thing, because every thing will take place according to pre- > > > written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of modifying that > > pre- > > > written destiny, because if we try to change only our fate, even > > then > > > all attached happening will automatically change creating a > > cascading > > > effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of every > > > person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or say pre- > > > defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when every > > Tom, > > > Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship, good > deed > > > etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under change. > > You > > > will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical > > > calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and can > never > > > and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart cannot be > > > altered it means result of calculation or say prediction is also > > > fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever > > prewritten) > > > by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc. because in > > > that case, if you like to say, then future events will be altered > > but > > > how a calculation of planetary transit or linked prediction can > be > > > changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed transit of > > > planets? > > > > > > Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest assured > > that > > > actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. Only > > astronomy > > > and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were used > > > unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it appears > > correct. > > > Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a myth. > Still > > if > > > you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact The > James > > > Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000 prize to > > > anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-mail and > > > website is jref@ and http://www.randi.org Because modern > > > technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being used to > > > spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested business > > > interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight this sort > > of > > > ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in this > regard > > > and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology > > > (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to formulate > > > principles was neither logical nor based on correct information > of > > > Universe, solar system. > > > > > > I will like to have your critical comments for further > interaction > > on > > > my email sanatkumar_jain@ . It would be better to know > > > the roots of astrology and facts, data behind it before falling > in > > > the trap and come forward to join hands because of AIDS > (Astrology > > Is > > > Damaging Society). > > > Sanat Kumar Jain > > > Gwalior > > > > > > Reader may directly write to me on my email instead of creating > > > problems to moderator > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2008 Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 Dear Sanat Ji, There is some mistyping by me in the reply I have corrected .The missing /corrected are in capitals;- Dear Sanat Ji, Almost all the points raised by you, came to my mind when I completed my graduation(Rishi) in astrology course in the institute. You have rightly said that a new breed of astrologer is emerging strongly, who by hook and crook justify any event by putting any of the the several rules of astrology. We term these astrologers as 'Postmortem Astrologers', specialist of doing postmortem of an event. Let us come to your queries. I give following quotes from lalKitab " Rashi Chhodi Nakshatra Bhulaya " Means, in this system of astrology Nakshatra and rashis are NOT required.This means all navansha dashaansha etc, digbal, shadbala, lagnesh, astmesh etc not required.Even Rahu and ketu can come in a single house which is not POSSIBLE in traditional system of astrology. It means that WHILE STUDYING LALKITAB SYSTEM ,we should keep apart/AWAY what we read so far in other systemS of astrology. Regarding other queries of eclipse etc,it is a chapter of astronomy and every answer lies there. what our ancient edicts say about it, I cannot comment upon it as I do not know Sanskrit and I have not read any original books because of lack of Sanskrit knowledge. Terming any research wrong on the basis of any translated material is not justified as far as me is concerned. Since you have read the original material you might be saying right. Regarding correcting the planet effect by remedial measures, whether possible or not I will not go in for this debate AS IT BECOMES like never ending story . Ayurvedas rejEcts Allopathy, allopathic discard ayurveda, Homoeopathy has its own rules. It is for the user to accept or reject as per there experiences. Similarly in the astrological concepts it is up to the students/user/astrologers to term it as right or wrong depending upon their experiences. You term planets as dead dudes but we dont.We consider each and every surroundings whether living or nonliving, stationary or movable has an effect on human behavior. It may be your own experience that these planets do not effect any body. This debate continue to exist as long as the scientists don't make human being in laboratory and keep the atma or soul in their control. So till then it is free to everybody to consider what he thinks as right. As per Lalkitab theory if one consider-Sun as his own soul & body, the father/dada as -Brihaspati(Guru), Moon as mother or mother like , Mercury as sister,daughter or Bhua, Mars as Brother, Shukkar as Wife or husband, Saturn as Chacha, rahu as Sasur, Ketu as Son, he is not doing any sin. This will not harm the society, it will rather help to knit well the harmony in the families. You may term it as shrugging of your queries, but since we don't use this type of data in these studies therefore it is a waste of time to keep on discussing such useless data. I have seen the 'Eskain Kundli " and truly speaking I could not understand the contents of the kundli. Just put the planetary positions in house, it is suffice. Dear Sanat Ji, yours have a research based mind and Lalkitab requires such types of person to explore it. It will be a welcome step if you start studying this system and bring your research out. I beg pardon if any of my above comments be felt offensive by you. Best Regards Nirmal , " Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj " <nirbhar wrote: > > Dear Sanat Ji, > Almost all the points raised by you, came to my mind when I completed > my graduation(Rishi) in astrology course in the institute. You have > rightly said that a new breed of astrologer is emerging strongly, who > by hook and crook justify any event by putting any of the the several > rules of astrology. We term these astrologers as 'Postmortem > Astrologers', specialist of doing > postmortem of an event. > Let us come to your queries. I give following quotes from lalKitab > " Rashi Chhodi Nakshatra Bhulaya " > Means, in this system of astrology Nakshatra and rashis are > required.This means all navansha dashaansha etc, digbal, shadbala, > lagnesh, astmesh etc not required.Even Rahu and ketu can come in a > single house which is not in traditional system of astrology. It means > that we should keep apart what we read so far in other system of > astrology. > > Regarding other queries of eclipse etc,it is a chapter of astronomy > and every answer lies there. what our ancient edicts say about it, I > cannot comment upon it as I do not know Sanskrit and I have not read > any original books because of lack of Sanskrit knowledge. Terming any > research wrong on the basis of any translated material is not > justified as far as me is concerned. Since you have read the original > material you might be saying right. > > Regarding correcting the planet effect by remedial measures, whether > possible or not I will not go in for this debate like never ending > story . Ayurvedas rejcts Allopathy, allopathic discard ayurveda, > Homoeopathy has its own rules. It is for the user to accept or reject > as per there experiences. Similarly in the astrological concepts it is > up to the students/user/astrologers to term it as right or wrong > depending upon their experiences. You term planets as dead dudes but > we dont.We consider each and every surroundings whether living or > nonliving, stationery or movable has an effect on human behavior. It > may be your own experience that these planets do not effect any body. > This debate continue to exist as long as the scientists don't make > human being in laboratory and keep the atma or soul in their control. > So till then it is free to everybody to consider what he thinks as right. > As per Lalkitab theory if one consider-Sun as his own soul & body, the > father/dada as -Brihaspati(Guru), Moon as mother or mother like , > Mercury as sister,daughter or Bhua, Mars as Brother, Shukkar as Wife > or husband, Saturn as Chacha, rahu as Sasur, Ketu as Son, he is not > doing any sin. This will not harm the society, it will rather help to > knit well the harmony in the families. > You may term it as shrugging of your queries, but since we don't use > this type of data in these studies therefore it is a waste of time to > keep on discussing such useless data. > > I have seen the 'Eskain Kundli " and truly speaking I could not > understand the contents of the kundli. Just put the planetary > positions in house, it is suffice. > Dear Sanat Ji, you have a research based mind and Lalkitab requires > such types of person to explore it. It is welcome step if you start > studying this system and bring your research out. > I beg pardon if any of my above comments be felt offensive by you. > Best Regards > Nirmal > , " sanat2221 " > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > Astrology a science or myth > > > > Dear Bhardwaj Ji, > > Namaskar, > > Thanks for your comments and suggestion of putting the book on net. > > But it cannot be done because now it will be against copyright of > > publisher and Hindi book " Jyotish Kitna Sahi Kitna galat " has > > original research based 325 pages, which is not a small book. > > > > >>>>> In my opinion,Most of your querries in your letter have simple > > answers <<<<<<<<< > > > > It may be, but if you have these simple answers then I am waiting > > for that, and if you have these logical answers in view of the then > > primitive knowledge then you may also know that these astrological > > principles are not logical in view of modern knowledge, which is > > quite against the primitive concept. > > > > >>>>>>>>You have not given your views about these questions.<<<<<<<< > > > > It is not correct, I have given a hint for every question and for > > detail analysis and procedure adopted to formulate all astrological > > principles you have to go through the book " Jyotish Kitna Sahi Kitna > > galat " . > > > > >>>>>>>discuss step by step in the group if you have any doubts about > > the astrological studies.<<<<<<< > > > > I have already raised many points or doubts in astrological > > principles now it is your turn to answer, yes, you can answer step by > > step. > > > > >>>>>>Presently we are discussing the LalKitab > > system.If you have any doubts regarding this system to discuss<<<<<<< > > > > The remedies of LK is for correcting effect of planets. When I am > > raising questions against astrology it-self then it is obvious that > > LK is being questioned. Life is not so easy which can be moulded > > (because we have to mould others life for getting some thing for our > > life) by some curd, almond, rise, ice, oil etc. If you change the > > course of anyone's life with socalled remedies then where is the > > prediction which is fixed because birth horoscope and transit of the > > planets and their effect as worked out after applying the > > astrological principles are fixed. And if you change some effect (as > > you claim) then it will generate cascading effect, which in turn will > > change the future of every one not alone the individual who is > > carrying out the remedy. > > > > So long every one is in the grip of Saturn from both ends (black > > hair and footwear) with Mars in between (tounge and blood) you can > > not cure planets. Thus you may start to suggest for shaving the head > > of women without footwear and spilt the tounge and try to remove the > > blood only then some one can be cured from the ill effect of > > planets. IS IT POSSIBLE ??? > > > > We Indians are very simple with little ambitions and do not want to > > take pains and always try to get some shortcut by this way or that > > way. BUT THERE IS NO SHORTCUT OF SUCCESS IN LIFE. However, > > individual with weak mental status may be lured to correct every odd > > of the life with some curd or almond. If it would have been so > > simple then there is no need of any school, hospital and law etc. > > because every thing would have achieved with some remedy either > > competition or business or illness and so on. Thus actually by > > supporting such concept we are underestimating the labour of sincere > > hard working individuals. > > > > >>>>>>>PS. Without jumping in the Sea one cannot explore its > > richness.<<<<<<< > > How you can say so when I am studying astrology since last 35 years > > and try to conclude any one correct principle. If you have any one > > correct principle then Please let me know. I am also uploading a > > file " Eskain Kundali " in your file section by which you can see > > that I myself developed and drawn a horoscope covering all sort of > > astrological principles for concluding any correct prediction with > > so many self developed > > softwares. > > > > Heartly thanks for your comments. > > Hope now you will go through my entire blog. Hope to hear soon. > > Yours truly, > > > > > > Sanat > > Readers may write on my email Sanatkumar_jain@ > > > > > > > > > > , " Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj " > > <nirbhar@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sanat, > > > your document has already been in the group file section. You have > > > raised some crucials issues. It would be better if you put your > > book > > > free of cost on net, so that your ideas reach each and every > > person. > > > In my opinion,Most of your querries in your letter have simple > > > answers.You have not given your views about these questions.Anyhow > > we > > > assure you that these will be taken up in future and You are > > welcome > > > to discuss step by step in the group if you have any doubts about > > the > > > astrological studies. But Presently we are discussing the LalKitab > > > system.If you have any doubts regarding this system to discuss,you > > > are welcome. > > > Regards > > > Nirmal Kumar > > > Moderator > > > PS. Without jumping in the Sea one cannot explore its richness. > > > > > > , > > > " sanat2221 " <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to some > > > > misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not studied in > > > depth > > > > but you only have faith, because you have been informed like > > this. > > > So > > > > come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as to > > whether > > > > astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of science due > > to > > > > some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the sentiments of > > > > astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only want > > to > > > > emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let us > > > examine > > > > it and then there will be no question of hurting, because you > > have > > > > not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are standing > > > in > > > > support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has been > > > > infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology is a > > > > science without knowing the story of other side. I can understand > > > the > > > > problem of astrologer that they will loose their business but if > > > you > > > > are a client then you must have right to know the truth or call > > an > > > > astrologer in the consumer forum. > > > > > > > > At the time of formulating the astrological principles in early > > > > Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being has > > > > capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This > > > religious > > > > philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet (Sun, > > Moon, > > > > Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days only > > > sages > > > > had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus after > > > > prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill to > > > predict > > > > solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called > > grabbing > > > > the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu. > > > > They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and its > > > > duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer donations > > > etc. > > > > to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which is > > still > > > > being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of > > > everybody > > > > is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this situation, > > it > > > > was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict the fate > > of > > > > deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict the > > fate > > > of > > > > King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate various > > > > astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge of > > sages > > > > based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These > > > principles > > > > were the key factors for deciding the fate. > > > > > > > > Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never > > > percolated > > > > in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier to learn > > > > such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these principles > > were > > > > spread to other civilisation and later on developed as Western > > > system. > > > > What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One group > > > > belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology due to > > > > their business considerations (these astrologers always try to > > fit > > > > past event very precisely within some astrological principle > > within > > > a > > > > capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and faith > > etc., > > > > but they are unable to predict any future event. Because > > > astrological > > > > principles lead to diverse predictions and that too diabolical > > > > opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in fluke) may > > > come > > > > true then they start to harp on the same prediction and start > > self > > > > praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on other > > > > horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only > > mislead, > > > > create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can find > > > that > > > > only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group (say > > > > scientist) try to raise some logical questions against astrology. > > > But > > > > none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was the > > > level > > > > of information of sages about the Universe, who developed > > > > astrological principles in primitive age and what procedure was > > > > adopted to formulate various principles relating to Lordship, > > > > Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect, Vinshottary > > > > periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles then > > > following > > > > questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in > > subpara). > > > > > > > > 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among seven > > > > planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ? > > > > > > > > It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the stationary > > > > Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on………. > > > > > > > > 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is enmity and > > > > friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are enemy of > > > each > > > > other) ? > > > > Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and demons over > > > > nector after sea-churning……….. > > > > 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect (full, > > > quarter > > > > to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect on > > seventh > > > > house) ? > > > > Based on the position of army in the battle field……….. > > > > > > > > 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are exalted > > and > > > > debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. of Aries > > > > sign) ? > > > > Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when duration of > > the > > > > day is more in comparison to night…… > > > > 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful and hub > > > of > > > > our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha whereas Venus > > > (a > > > > small planet) has 20 years ? > > > > Based on two triangles derived after working out the effect of > > > > Universe on the basis of lord and exalted……. > > > > 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various constellations > > > between > > > > nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ? > > > > > > > > Kratica was first constellation in Indian scriptures………. > > > > > > > > 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a week > > > > (Sunday, Monday etc.) ? > > > > Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the > > structure > > > > of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away….. > > > > > > > > 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde motion of > > > > Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)? > > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse….. > > > > 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are 180 > > deg. > > > > apart? > > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse……….. > > > > 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of eclipse ? > > > > Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation month………. > > > > > > > > Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question as to > > > > whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one gave > > > > answers to these questions then he will realise that entire > > > > astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept of > > > > Universe. > > > > > > > > Everybody may agree that every research is based on the then > > > > knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed by sage > > > > Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is in the > > > > centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed in all > > > > religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read any > > old > > > > scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas Moon is > > > beyond > > > > Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury and Moon. > > > > You may be surprised to know that all astrological principles are > > > > actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self studying > > > astrology > > > > since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude correct > > > > prediction. But if it is true at one time then same combination > > is > > > > not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh logically and > > > > systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive > > concept > > > > (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling in view > > of > > > > modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive concept > > > of > > > > Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed. > > > > After lot of research I wrote an original book on astrology > > > " Jyotish - > > > > Kitna sahi kitna galat " in Hindi (330 pages). This book contains > > > the > > > > detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles on the > > > basis > > > > of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our sages > > to > > > > formulate these principles. This book was also published in > > English > > > > with the title " Astrology a science or myth " (450 pages). You can > > > > realize that this is revolutionary book and will change the face > > of > > > > predictive astrology in due course. If you interested to know > > more > > > > about the book or description of various chapters then you may > > send > > > > email to me. The book is being marketed in USA /UK etc. > > > > Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do? > > produktID=1759836 > > > > > > > > http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat% > > 20kumar% > > > > 20jain & TAG= & CID= > > > > > > > > http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx? > > > > ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t > > > > > > > > At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, Neptune nor > > > they > > > > were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to presence > > > of > > > > Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed the > > > concept > > > > of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It was > > mentioned > > > in > > > > the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came within > > 14 > > > > degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon). But > > > nobody > > > > will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse when > > > Sun, > > > > Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree respectively > > > on > > > > 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, Moon and > > > Ketu > > > > were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on 03- 03- > > 1988 > > > ( > > > > Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar > > eclipses > > > > occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was more then > > > > 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at 79.04 > > > deg. > > > > on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon were at > > > 76.49 > > > > deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu was > > 15.14 > > > > deg. away). > > > > To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you will > > also > > > > find in many modern astrological books that eclipse occurred at > > the > > > > intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it was > > not > > > > known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis of > > > myth). > > > > Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse, when > > Moon > > > > happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be there. But > > > As > > > > per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11- 1985 > > and > > > 3- > > > > 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were full > > solar > > > > eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 degree > > > > respectively. You will agree that when there were full solar > > > eclipses > > > > then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and 166 > > > degree > > > > respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may possible. > > > > Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in almanac. > > > Thus > > > > there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees respectively. > > > All > > > > horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this > > fundamental > > > > positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you want > > then > > > I > > > > can give many more examples and very simple method of detecting > > > them. > > > > I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a science but > > in > > > > primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of astronomy + > > > > psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science, psychology > > > > (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive age) > > played > > > an > > > > important role in handling a person by the astrologer due to > > > immense > > > > faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology > > appears > > > to > > > > be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will also > > agree > > > > with the above observation after going through my original > > > > revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-decided as > > was > > > > contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may try to > > > do > > > > some thing, because every thing will take place according to pre- > > > > written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of modifying that > > > pre- > > > > written destiny, because if we try to change only our fate, even > > > then > > > > all attached happening will automatically change creating a > > > cascading > > > > effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of every > > > > person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or say pre- > > > > defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when every > > > Tom, > > > > Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship, good > > deed > > > > etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under change. > > > You > > > > will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical > > > > calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and can > > never > > > > and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart cannot be > > > > altered it means result of calculation or say prediction is also > > > > fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever > > > prewritten) > > > > by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc. because in > > > > that case, if you like to say, then future events will be altered > > > but > > > > how a calculation of planetary transit or linked prediction can > > be > > > > changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed transit of > > > > planets? > > > > > > > > Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest assured > > > that > > > > actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. Only > > > astronomy > > > > and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were used > > > > unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it appears > > > correct. > > > > Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a myth. > > Still > > > if > > > > you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact The > > James > > > > Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000 prize to > > > > anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-mail and > > > > website is jref@ and http://www.randi.org Because modern > > > > technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being used to > > > > spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested business > > > > interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight this sort > > > of > > > > ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in this > > regard > > > > and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology > > > > (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to formulate > > > > principles was neither logical nor based on correct information > > of > > > > Universe, solar system. > > > > > > > > I will like to have your critical comments for further > > interaction > > > on > > > > my email sanatkumar_jain@ . It would be better to know > > > > the roots of astrology and facts, data behind it before falling > > in > > > > the trap and come forward to join hands because of AIDS > > (Astrology > > > Is > > > > Damaging Society). > > > > Sanat Kumar Jain > > > > Gwalior > > > > > > > > Reader may directly write to me on my email instead of creating > > > > problems to moderator > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2008 Report Share Posted January 20, 2008 Astrology a science or myth Dear Bhardwaj Ji, Namaskar, Thanks for your comments. I am starting from the last line. >>>>>>> I beg pardon if any of my above comments be felt offensive by you. <<<<<<<< Rest assured I will never felt anything offensive because I have entered in your forum with opposite view hence I am prepared for any wordings. But I am sorry to create problem by opposing your stand in your forum. So I must beg pardon for all of my comments. But you are always free to stop answering. But if we have some opposite views it does not mean that I have any personal enmity. I hope you will agree. Let us move further with our views. Though you have left many points untouched from my 1st and 2nd mail, but it is always your right to answer on some points and left others. But I will try to answer your points. Sorry for any adverse comments. >>>>>>when I completed my graduation(Rishi) in astrology course in the institute.<<<<<<< This is the main problem which is not allowing you to review whole situation with new angle. Though these points came to your mind before completing the course but you have not clarified those points during the completion of course. >>>>>>…….We term these astrologers as 'Postmortem Astrologers',>>>>>>>> Good comment. >>>>>>> ………It means that we should keep apart what we read so far in other system of astrology.<<<<<<<< Yes, but if you take some thing from other branch then either you must know about it or may be prepared to answer the questions raised. Thus if you are leaving rashi / nachatra then why are you (You means LK. In future too take it as LK) using Aries sign in ascendant, and how you have worked out that Saturn / mars etc are evil planets, and how you have worked out that so and so planet can be befooled by so and so colour. Actually all this tradition have been borrowed from planetary astrology. >>>>>>>Regarding other queries of eclipse etc,it is a chapter of astronomy and every answer lies there. <<<<<<<< Why astronomy, now you are using science. Eclipse etc were part of astrology and they are still part of astrology. Though scientist classified it as astronomy. Let them. But you can answer it under astrology and clarify as to why Rahu was 11/12 degrees away from the point of eclipse and so on. Otherwise placement of Rahu and remedy by LK would not be wrong. Because Rahu may not be there, where you are placing and treating him. >>>>>>> what our ancient edicts say about it, I cannot comment upon it as I do not know Sanskrit and I have not read any original books because of lack of Sanskrit knowledge. <<<<<<<< It has nothing to do as to whether you know Sanskrit or not. Because when you are following some thing of sages it means you think that they are correct hence you must be prepared to answer any querry or read further because you are following something only after reading translation so what is the harm in answering after reading some further translation. >>>>>Terming any research wrong on the basis of any translated material is not justified as far as me is concerned. <<<<<<<< Then how terming any translated material as right may be justified. >>>>>>>It is for the user to accept or reject as per there experiences. <<<<< No, it is not the experience by which some one goes to any pathy. Because experience here is not personal but social. But if some one say that you are going to wrong pathy then one must rethink. In the same way when scientist say that >>>>>planets as dead dudes <<<<< then why don't you rethink and come out with some solid scientific proof. Do you believe the concept of solar system or you believe that Earth is stationary and flat and so on…………….. >>>>>>We consider each and every surroundings whether living or nonliving, stationery or movable has an effect on human behavior. <<<<<< Where it is written in any scripture. Scientifically, a Car standing nearby you may have more gravitational effect then a planet. >>>>>It may be your own experience that these planets do not effect any body. This debate continue to exist as long as the scientists don't make human being in laboratory and keep the atma or soul in their control. <<<<<<<<< These two points (soul and planets) are totally not linked with each other. And continue to keep watch scientific research. Are they not creating human beings in test tube and so on again we will left our main point >>>>>>As per Lalkitab theory if one consider-Sun as his own soul & body, the father/dada as -Brihaspati(Guru), Moon as mother or mother like , Mercury as sister,daughter or Bhua, Mars as Brother, Shukkar as Wife or husband, Saturn as Chacha, rahu as Sasur, Ketu as Son, he is not doing any sin. This will not harm the society, it will rather help to knit well the harmony in the families.>>>>>> No, it is not going to knit well the family. If instead of thinking Sukra as your wife and pleasing that planet, It would be much better if you try to please your wife. Likewise you can try to please yourself (instead of Sun), Teacher, father (instead of Brihspati) and so on. Thus family will be well knit. And more over how a planetary body of thousands/laks km in diameter is going to locate your curd, milk, oil and so on and will amend himself by changing his effect so that it may left you and grab your neighbour. >>>>>>…. therefore it is a waste of time to keep on discussing such useless data.>>>>>>>> It is your right to stop this interaction. >>>>I have seen the 'Eskain Kundli " and truly speaking I could not understand the contents of the kundli.<<<<<< This kundli was devised to cover all astrological principles so that their may not be any possibility to get some escape route from any final result But even despite this that is all sort of pathological examination ie. Blood test, xray, scan and so on. there is not a true result. You have to read my original book " Jyotish kitna sahi kitna galat " for knowing in detail. Though hints have been given in the horoscope it self. >>>>>> you have a research based mind and Lalkitab requires such types of person to explore it. It is welcome step if you start studying this system and bring your research out.>>>>>>> I have already gone through LK. But mother of all sort of predictive / remedial measure is planetary astrology. Other branches have adopted some portion of planetary astrology. Yes I am ready to research in any direction, because I am totally open minded but there must be some logical reasoning where I could move. If you will go through my book and find some point where I must move then I am ready to move. Best Regards Heartly thanks for your comments. Yours truly, Sanat , " Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj " <nirbhar wrote: > > Dear Sanat Ji, > Almost all the points raised by you, came to my mind when I completed > my graduation(Rishi) in astrology course in the institute. You have > rightly said that a new breed of astrologer is emerging strongly, who > by hook and crook justify any event by putting any of the the several > rules of astrology. We term these astrologers as 'Postmortem > Astrologers', specialist of doing > postmortem of an event. > Let us come to your queries. I give following quotes from lalKitab > " Rashi Chhodi Nakshatra Bhulaya " > Means, in this system of astrology Nakshatra and rashis are > required.This means all navansha dashaansha etc, digbal, shadbala, > lagnesh, astmesh etc not required.Even Rahu and ketu can come in a > single house which is not in traditional system of astrology. It means > that we should keep apart what we read so far in other system of > astrology. > > Regarding other queries of eclipse etc,it is a chapter of astronomy > and every answer lies there. what our ancient edicts say about it, I > cannot comment upon it as I do not know Sanskrit and I have not read > any original books because of lack of Sanskrit knowledge. Terming any > research wrong on the basis of any translated material is not > justified as far as me is concerned. Since you have read the original > material you might be saying right. > > Regarding correcting the planet effect by remedial measures, whether > possible or not I will not go in for this debate like never ending > story . Ayurvedas rejcts Allopathy, allopathic discard ayurveda, > Homoeopathy has its own rules. It is for the user to accept or reject > as per there experiences. Similarly in the astrological concepts it is > up to the students/user/astrologers to term it as right or wrong > depending upon their experiences. You term planets as dead dudes but > we dont.We consider each and every surroundings whether living or > nonliving, stationery or movable has an effect on human behavior. It > may be your own experience that these planets do not effect any body. > This debate continue to exist as long as the scientists don't make > human being in laboratory and keep the atma or soul in their control. > So till then it is free to everybody to consider what he thinks as right. > As per Lalkitab theory if one consider-Sun as his own soul & body, the > father/dada as -Brihaspati(Guru), Moon as mother or mother like , > Mercury as sister,daughter or Bhua, Mars as Brother, Shukkar as Wife > or husband, Saturn as Chacha, rahu as Sasur, Ketu as Son, he is not > doing any sin. This will not harm the society, it will rather help to > knit well the harmony in the families. > You may term it as shrugging of your queries, but since we don't use > this type of data in these studies therefore it is a waste of time to > keep on discussing such useless data. > > I have seen the 'Eskain Kundli " and truly speaking I could not > understand the contents of the kundli. Just put the planetary > positions in house, it is suffice. > Dear Sanat Ji, you have a research based mind and Lalkitab requires > such types of person to explore it. It is welcome step if you start > studying this system and bring your research out. > I beg pardon if any of my above comments be felt offensive by you. > Best Regards > Nirmal > , " sanat2221 " > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > Astrology a science or myth > > > > Dear Bhardwaj Ji, > > Namaskar, > > Thanks for your comments and suggestion of putting the book on net. > > But it cannot be done because now it will be against copyright of > > publisher and Hindi book " Jyotish Kitna Sahi Kitna galat " has > > original research based 325 pages, which is not a small book. > > > > >>>>> In my opinion,Most of your querries in your letter have simple > > answers <<<<<<<<< > > > > It may be, but if you have these simple answers then I am waiting > > for that, and if you have these logical answers in view of the then > > primitive knowledge then you may also know that these astrological > > principles are not logical in view of modern knowledge, which is > > quite against the primitive concept. > > > > >>>>>>>>You have not given your views about these questions.<<<<<<<< > > > > It is not correct, I have given a hint for every question and for > > detail analysis and procedure adopted to formulate all astrological > > principles you have to go through the book " Jyotish Kitna Sahi Kitna > > galat " . > > > > >>>>>>>discuss step by step in the group if you have any doubts about > > the astrological studies.<<<<<<< > > > > I have already raised many points or doubts in astrological > > principles now it is your turn to answer, yes, you can answer step by > > step. > > > > >>>>>>Presently we are discussing the LalKitab > > system.If you have any doubts regarding this system to discuss<<<<<<< > > > > The remedies of LK is for correcting effect of planets. When I am > > raising questions against astrology it-self then it is obvious that > > LK is being questioned. Life is not so easy which can be moulded > > (because we have to mould others life for getting some thing for our > > life) by some curd, almond, rise, ice, oil etc. If you change the > > course of anyone's life with socalled remedies then where is the > > prediction which is fixed because birth horoscope and transit of the > > planets and their effect as worked out after applying the > > astrological principles are fixed. And if you change some effect (as > > you claim) then it will generate cascading effect, which in turn will > > change the future of every one not alone the individual who is > > carrying out the remedy. > > > > So long every one is in the grip of Saturn from both ends (black > > hair and footwear) with Mars in between (tounge and blood) you can > > not cure planets. Thus you may start to suggest for shaving the head > > of women without footwear and spilt the tounge and try to remove the > > blood only then some one can be cured from the ill effect of > > planets. IS IT POSSIBLE ??? > > > > We Indians are very simple with little ambitions and do not want to > > take pains and always try to get some shortcut by this way or that > > way. BUT THERE IS NO SHORTCUT OF SUCCESS IN LIFE. However, > > individual with weak mental status may be lured to correct every odd > > of the life with some curd or almond. If it would have been so > > simple then there is no need of any school, hospital and law etc. > > because every thing would have achieved with some remedy either > > competition or business or illness and so on. Thus actually by > > supporting such concept we are underestimating the labour of sincere > > hard working individuals. > > > > >>>>>>>PS. Without jumping in the Sea one cannot explore its > > richness.<<<<<<< > > How you can say so when I am studying astrology since last 35 years > > and try to conclude any one correct principle. If you have any one > > correct principle then Please let me know. I am also uploading a > > file " Eskain Kundali " in your file section by which you can see > > that I myself developed and drawn a horoscope covering all sort of > > astrological principles for concluding any correct prediction with > > so many self developed > > softwares. > > > > Heartly thanks for your comments. > > Hope now you will go through my entire blog. Hope to hear soon. > > Yours truly, > > > > > > Sanat > > Readers may write on my email Sanatkumar_jain@ > > > > > > > > > > , " Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj " > > <nirbhar@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sanat, > > > your document has already been in the group file section. You have > > > raised some crucials issues. It would be better if you put your > > book > > > free of cost on net, so that your ideas reach each and every > > person. > > > In my opinion,Most of your querries in your letter have simple > > > answers.You have not given your views about these questions.Anyhow > > we > > > assure you that these will be taken up in future and You are > > welcome > > > to discuss step by step in the group if you have any doubts about > > the > > > astrological studies. But Presently we are discussing the LalKitab > > > system.If you have any doubts regarding this system to discuss,you > > > are welcome. > > > Regards > > > Nirmal Kumar > > > Moderator > > > PS. Without jumping in the Sea one cannot explore its richness. > > > > > > , > > > " sanat2221 " <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to some > > > > misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not studied in > > > depth > > > > but you only have faith, because you have been informed like > > this. > > > So > > > > come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as to > > whether > > > > astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of science due > > to > > > > some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the sentiments of > > > > astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only want > > to > > > > emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let us > > > examine > > > > it and then there will be no question of hurting, because you > > have > > > > not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are standing > > > in > > > > support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has been > > > > infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology is a > > > > science without knowing the story of other side. I can understand > > > the > > > > problem of astrologer that they will loose their business but if > > > you > > > > are a client then you must have right to know the truth or call > > an > > > > astrologer in the consumer forum. > > > > > > > > At the time of formulating the astrological principles in early > > > > Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being has > > > > capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This > > > religious > > > > philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet (Sun, > > Moon, > > > > Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days only > > > sages > > > > had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus after > > > > prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill to > > > predict > > > > solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called > > grabbing > > > > the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu. > > > > They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and its > > > > duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer donations > > > etc. > > > > to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which is > > still > > > > being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of > > > everybody > > > > is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this situation, > > it > > > > was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict the fate > > of > > > > deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict the > > fate > > > of > > > > King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate various > > > > astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge of > > sages > > > > based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These > > > principles > > > > were the key factors for deciding the fate. > > > > > > > > Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never > > > percolated > > > > in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier to learn > > > > such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these principles > > were > > > > spread to other civilisation and later on developed as Western > > > system. > > > > What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One group > > > > belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology due to > > > > their business considerations (these astrologers always try to > > fit > > > > past event very precisely within some astrological principle > > within > > > a > > > > capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and faith > > etc., > > > > but they are unable to predict any future event. Because > > > astrological > > > > principles lead to diverse predictions and that too diabolical > > > > opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in fluke) may > > > come > > > > true then they start to harp on the same prediction and start > > self > > > > praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on other > > > > horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only > > mislead, > > > > create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can find > > > that > > > > only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group (say > > > > scientist) try to raise some logical questions against astrology. > > > But > > > > none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was the > > > level > > > > of information of sages about the Universe, who developed > > > > astrological principles in primitive age and what procedure was > > > > adopted to formulate various principles relating to Lordship, > > > > Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect, Vinshottary > > > > periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles then > > > following > > > > questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in > > subpara). > > > > > > > > 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among seven > > > > planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ? > > > > > > > > It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the stationary > > > > Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on………. > > > > > > > > 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is enmity and > > > > friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are enemy of > > > each > > > > other) ? > > > > Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and demons over > > > > nector after sea-churning……….. > > > > 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect (full, > > > quarter > > > > to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect on > > seventh > > > > house) ? > > > > Based on the position of army in the battle field……….. > > > > > > > > 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are exalted > > and > > > > debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. of Aries > > > > sign) ? > > > > Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when duration of > > the > > > > day is more in comparison to night…… > > > > 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful and hub > > > of > > > > our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha whereas Venus > > > (a > > > > small planet) has 20 years ? > > > > Based on two triangles derived after working out the effect of > > > > Universe on the basis of lord and exalted……. > > > > 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various constellations > > > between > > > > nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ? > > > > > > > > Kratica was first constellation in Indian scriptures………. > > > > > > > > 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a week > > > > (Sunday, Monday etc.) ? > > > > Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the > > structure > > > > of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away….. > > > > > > > > 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde motion of > > > > Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)? > > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse….. > > > > 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are 180 > > deg. > > > > apart? > > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse……….. > > > > 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of eclipse ? > > > > Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation month………. > > > > > > > > Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question as to > > > > whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one gave > > > > answers to these questions then he will realise that entire > > > > astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept of > > > > Universe. > > > > > > > > Everybody may agree that every research is based on the then > > > > knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed by sage > > > > Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is in the > > > > centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed in all > > > > religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read any > > old > > > > scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas Moon is > > > beyond > > > > Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury and Moon. > > > > You may be surprised to know that all astrological principles are > > > > actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self studying > > > astrology > > > > since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude correct > > > > prediction. But if it is true at one time then same combination > > is > > > > not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh logically and > > > > systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive > > concept > > > > (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling in view > > of > > > > modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive concept > > > of > > > > Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed. > > > > After lot of research I wrote an original book on astrology > > > " Jyotish - > > > > Kitna sahi kitna galat " in Hindi (330 pages). This book contains > > > the > > > > detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles on the > > > basis > > > > of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our sages > > to > > > > formulate these principles. This book was also published in > > English > > > > with the title " Astrology a science or myth " (450 pages). You can > > > > realize that this is revolutionary book and will change the face > > of > > > > predictive astrology in due course. If you interested to know > > more > > > > about the book or description of various chapters then you may > > send > > > > email to me. The book is being marketed in USA /UK etc. > > > > Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do? > > produktID=1759836 > > > > > > > > http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat% > > 20kumar% > > > > 20jain & TAG= & CID= > > > > > > > > http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx? > > > > ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t > > > > > > > > At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, Neptune nor > > > they > > > > were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to presence > > > of > > > > Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed the > > > concept > > > > of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It was > > mentioned > > > in > > > > the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came within > > 14 > > > > degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon). But > > > nobody > > > > will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse when > > > Sun, > > > > Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree respectively > > > on > > > > 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, Moon and > > > Ketu > > > > were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on 03- 03- > > 1988 > > > ( > > > > Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar > > eclipses > > > > occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was more then > > > > 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at 79.04 > > > deg. > > > > on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon were at > > > 76.49 > > > > deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu was > > 15.14 > > > > deg. away). > > > > To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you will > > also > > > > find in many modern astrological books that eclipse occurred at > > the > > > > intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it was > > not > > > > known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis of > > > myth). > > > > Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse, when > > Moon > > > > happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be there. But > > > As > > > > per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11- 1985 > > and > > > 3- > > > > 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were full > > solar > > > > eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 degree > > > > respectively. You will agree that when there were full solar > > > eclipses > > > > then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and 166 > > > degree > > > > respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may possible. > > > > Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in almanac. > > > Thus > > > > there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees respectively. > > > All > > > > horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this > > fundamental > > > > positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you want > > then > > > I > > > > can give many more examples and very simple method of detecting > > > them. > > > > I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a science but > > in > > > > primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of astronomy + > > > > psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science, psychology > > > > (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive age) > > played > > > an > > > > important role in handling a person by the astrologer due to > > > immense > > > > faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology > > appears > > > to > > > > be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will also > > agree > > > > with the above observation after going through my original > > > > revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-decided as > > was > > > > contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may try to > > > do > > > > some thing, because every thing will take place according to pre- > > > > written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of modifying that > > > pre- > > > > written destiny, because if we try to change only our fate, even > > > then > > > > all attached happening will automatically change creating a > > > cascading > > > > effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of every > > > > person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or say pre- > > > > defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when every > > > Tom, > > > > Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship, good > > deed > > > > etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under change. > > > You > > > > will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical > > > > calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and can > > never > > > > and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart cannot be > > > > altered it means result of calculation or say prediction is also > > > > fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever > > > prewritten) > > > > by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc. because in > > > > that case, if you like to say, then future events will be altered > > > but > > > > how a calculation of planetary transit or linked prediction can > > be > > > > changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed transit of > > > > planets? > > > > > > > > Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest assured > > > that > > > > actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. Only > > > astronomy > > > > and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were used > > > > unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it appears > > > correct. > > > > Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a myth. > > Still > > > if > > > > you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact The > > James > > > > Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000 prize to > > > > anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-mail and > > > > website is jref@ and http://www.randi.org Because modern > > > > technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being used to > > > > spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested business > > > > interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight this sort > > > of > > > > ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in this > > regard > > > > and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology > > > > (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to formulate > > > > principles was neither logical nor based on correct information > > of > > > > Universe, solar system. > > > > > > > > I will like to have your critical comments for further > > interaction > > > on > > > > my email sanatkumar_jain@ . It would be better to know > > > > the roots of astrology and facts, data behind it before falling > > in > > > > the trap and come forward to join hands because of AIDS > > (Astrology > > > Is > > > > Damaging Society). > > > > Sanat Kumar Jain > > > > Gwalior > > > > > > > > Reader may directly write to me on my email instead of creating > > > > problems to moderator > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2008 Report Share Posted January 20, 2008 Astrology a science or myth Dear Bhardwaj Ji, Namaskar, Thanks for your comments. I am starting from the last line. >>>>>>> I beg pardon if any of my above comments be felt offensive by you. <<<<<<<< Rest assured I will never felt anything offensive because I have entered in your forum with opposite view hence I am prepared for any wordings. But I am sorry to create problem by opposing your stand in your forum. So I must beg pardon for all of my comments. But you are always free to stop answering. But if we have some opposite views it does not mean that I have any personal enmity. I hope you will agree. Let us move further with our views. Though you have left many points untouched from my 1st and 2nd mail, but it is always your right to answer on some points and left others. But I will try to answer your points. Sorry for any adverse comments. >>>>>>when I completed my graduation(Rishi) in astrology course in the institute.<<<<<<< This is the main problem which is not allowing you to review whole situation with new angle. Though these points came to your mind before completing the course but you have not clarified those points during the completion of course. >>>>>>…….We term these astrologers as 'Postmortem Astrologers',>>>>>>>> Good comment. >>>>>>> ………It means that we should keep apart what we read so far in other system of astrology.<<<<<<<< Yes, but if you take some thing from other branch then either you must know about it or may be prepared to answer the questions raised. Thus if you are leaving rashi / nachatra then why are you (You means LK. In future too take it as LK) using Aries sign in ascendant, and how you have worked out that Saturn / mars etc are evil planets, and how you have worked out that so and so planet can be befooled by so and so colour. Actually all this tradition have been borrowed from planetary astrology. >>>>>>>Regarding other queries of eclipse etc,it is a chapter of astronomy and every answer lies there. <<<<<<<< Why astronomy, now you are using science. Eclipse etc were part of astrology and they are still part of astrology. Though scientist classified it as astronomy. Let them. But you can answer it under astrology and clarify as to why Rahu was 11/12 degrees away from the point of eclipse and so on. Otherwise placement of Rahu and remedy by LK would not be wrong. Because Rahu may not be there, where you are placing and treating him. >>>>>>> what our ancient edicts say about it, I cannot comment upon it as I do not know Sanskrit and I have not read any original books because of lack of Sanskrit knowledge. <<<<<<<< It has nothing to do as to whether you know Sanskrit or not. Because when you are following some thing of sages it means you think that they are correct hence you must be prepared to answer any querry or read further because you are following something only after reading translation so what is the harm in answering after reading some further translation. >>>>>Terming any research wrong on the basis of any translated material is not justified as far as me is concerned. <<<<<<<< Then how terming any translated material as right may be justified. >>>>>>>It is for the user to accept or reject as per there experiences. <<<<< No, it is not the experience by which some one goes to any pathy. Because experience here is not personal but social. But if some one say that you are going to wrong pathy then one must rethink. In the same way when scientist say that >>>>>planets as dead dudes <<<<< then why don't you rethink and come out with some solid scientific proof. Do you believe the concept of solar system or you believe that Earth is stationary and flat and so on…………….. >>>>>>We consider each and every surroundings whether living or nonliving, stationery or movable has an effect on human behavior. <<<<<< Where it is written in any scripture. Scientifically, a Car standing nearby you may have more gravitational effect then a planet. >>>>>It may be your own experience that these planets do not effect any body. This debate continue to exist as long as the scientists don't make human being in laboratory and keep the atma or soul in their control. <<<<<<<<< These two points (soul and planets) are totally not linked with each other. And continue to keep watch scientific research. Are they not creating human beings in test tube and so on again we will left our main point >>>>>>As per Lalkitab theory if one consider-Sun as his own soul & body, the father/dada as -Brihaspati(Guru), Moon as mother or mother like , Mercury as sister,daughter or Bhua, Mars as Brother, Shukkar as Wife or husband, Saturn as Chacha, rahu as Sasur, Ketu as Son, he is not doing any sin. This will not harm the society, it will rather help to knit well the harmony in the families.>>>>>> No, it is not going to knit well the family. If instead of thinking Sukra as your wife and pleasing that planet, It would be much better if you try to please your wife. Likewise you can try to please yourself (instead of Sun), Teacher, father (instead of Brihspati) and so on. Thus family will be well knit. And more over how a planetary body of thousands/laks km in diameter is going to locate your curd, milk, oil and so on and will amend himself by changing his effect so that it may left you and grab your neighbour. >>>>>>…. therefore it is a waste of time to keep on discussing such useless data.>>>>>>>> It is your right to stop this interaction. >>>>I have seen the 'Eskain Kundli " and truly speaking I could not understand the contents of the kundli.<<<<<< This kundli was devised to cover all astrological principles so that their may not be any possibility to get some escape route from any final result But even despite this that is all sort of pathological examination ie. Blood test, xray, scan and so on. there is not a true result. You have to read my original book " Jyotish kitna sahi kitna galat " for knowing in detail. Though hints have been given in the horoscope it self. >>>>>> you have a research based mind and Lalkitab requires such types of person to explore it. It is welcome step if you start studying this system and bring your research out.>>>>>>> I have already gone through LK. But mother of all sort of predictive / remedial measure is planetary astrology. Other branches have adopted some portion of planetary astrology. Yes I am ready to research in any direction, because I am totally open minded but there must be some logical reasoning where I could move. If you will go through my book and find some point where I must move then I am ready to move. Best Regards Heartly thanks for your comments. Yours truly, Sanat , " Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj " <nirbhar wrote: > > Dear Sanat Ji, > Almost all the points raised by you, came to my mind when I completed > my graduation(Rishi) in astrology course in the institute. You have > rightly said that a new breed of astrologer is emerging strongly, who > by hook and crook justify any event by putting any of the the several > rules of astrology. We term these astrologers as 'Postmortem > Astrologers', specialist of doing > postmortem of an event. > Let us come to your queries. I give following quotes from lalKitab > " Rashi Chhodi Nakshatra Bhulaya " > Means, in this system of astrology Nakshatra and rashis are > required.This means all navansha dashaansha etc, digbal, shadbala, > lagnesh, astmesh etc not required.Even Rahu and ketu can come in a > single house which is not in traditional system of astrology. It means > that we should keep apart what we read so far in other system of > astrology. > > Regarding other queries of eclipse etc,it is a chapter of astronomy > and every answer lies there. what our ancient edicts say about it, I > cannot comment upon it as I do not know Sanskrit and I have not read > any original books because of lack of Sanskrit knowledge. Terming any > research wrong on the basis of any translated material is not > justified as far as me is concerned. Since you have read the original > material you might be saying right. > > Regarding correcting the planet effect by remedial measures, whether > possible or not I will not go in for this debate like never ending > story . Ayurvedas rejcts Allopathy, allopathic discard ayurveda, > Homoeopathy has its own rules. It is for the user to accept or reject > as per there experiences. Similarly in the astrological concepts it is > up to the students/user/astrologers to term it as right or wrong > depending upon their experiences. You term planets as dead dudes but > we dont.We consider each and every surroundings whether living or > nonliving, stationery or movable has an effect on human behavior. It > may be your own experience that these planets do not effect any body. > This debate continue to exist as long as the scientists don't make > human being in laboratory and keep the atma or soul in their control. > So till then it is free to everybody to consider what he thinks as right. > As per Lalkitab theory if one consider-Sun as his own soul & body, the > father/dada as -Brihaspati(Guru), Moon as mother or mother like , > Mercury as sister,daughter or Bhua, Mars as Brother, Shukkar as Wife > or husband, Saturn as Chacha, rahu as Sasur, Ketu as Son, he is not > doing any sin. This will not harm the society, it will rather help to > knit well the harmony in the families. > You may term it as shrugging of your queries, but since we don't use > this type of data in these studies therefore it is a waste of time to > keep on discussing such useless data. > > I have seen the 'Eskain Kundli " and truly speaking I could not > understand the contents of the kundli. Just put the planetary > positions in house, it is suffice. > Dear Sanat Ji, you have a research based mind and Lalkitab requires > such types of person to explore it. It is welcome step if you start > studying this system and bring your research out. > I beg pardon if any of my above comments be felt offensive by you. > Best Regards > Nirmal > , " sanat2221 " > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > Astrology a science or myth > > > > Dear Bhardwaj Ji, > > Namaskar, > > Thanks for your comments and suggestion of putting the book on net. > > But it cannot be done because now it will be against copyright of > > publisher and Hindi book " Jyotish Kitna Sahi Kitna galat " has > > original research based 325 pages, which is not a small book. > > > > >>>>> In my opinion,Most of your querries in your letter have simple > > answers <<<<<<<<< > > > > It may be, but if you have these simple answers then I am waiting > > for that, and if you have these logical answers in view of the then > > primitive knowledge then you may also know that these astrological > > principles are not logical in view of modern knowledge, which is > > quite against the primitive concept. > > > > >>>>>>>>You have not given your views about these questions.<<<<<<<< > > > > It is not correct, I have given a hint for every question and for > > detail analysis and procedure adopted to formulate all astrological > > principles you have to go through the book " Jyotish Kitna Sahi Kitna > > galat " . > > > > >>>>>>>discuss step by step in the group if you have any doubts about > > the astrological studies.<<<<<<< > > > > I have already raised many points or doubts in astrological > > principles now it is your turn to answer, yes, you can answer step by > > step. > > > > >>>>>>Presently we are discussing the LalKitab > > system.If you have any doubts regarding this system to discuss<<<<<<< > > > > The remedies of LK is for correcting effect of planets. When I am > > raising questions against astrology it-self then it is obvious that > > LK is being questioned. Life is not so easy which can be moulded > > (because we have to mould others life for getting some thing for our > > life) by some curd, almond, rise, ice, oil etc. If you change the > > course of anyone's life with socalled remedies then where is the > > prediction which is fixed because birth horoscope and transit of the > > planets and their effect as worked out after applying the > > astrological principles are fixed. And if you change some effect (as > > you claim) then it will generate cascading effect, which in turn will > > change the future of every one not alone the individual who is > > carrying out the remedy. > > > > So long every one is in the grip of Saturn from both ends (black > > hair and footwear) with Mars in between (tounge and blood) you can > > not cure planets. Thus you may start to suggest for shaving the head > > of women without footwear and spilt the tounge and try to remove the > > blood only then some one can be cured from the ill effect of > > planets. IS IT POSSIBLE ??? > > > > We Indians are very simple with little ambitions and do not want to > > take pains and always try to get some shortcut by this way or that > > way. BUT THERE IS NO SHORTCUT OF SUCCESS IN LIFE. However, > > individual with weak mental status may be lured to correct every odd > > of the life with some curd or almond. If it would have been so > > simple then there is no need of any school, hospital and law etc. > > because every thing would have achieved with some remedy either > > competition or business or illness and so on. Thus actually by > > supporting such concept we are underestimating the labour of sincere > > hard working individuals. > > > > >>>>>>>PS. Without jumping in the Sea one cannot explore its > > richness.<<<<<<< > > How you can say so when I am studying astrology since last 35 years > > and try to conclude any one correct principle. If you have any one > > correct principle then Please let me know. I am also uploading a > > file " Eskain Kundali " in your file section by which you can see > > that I myself developed and drawn a horoscope covering all sort of > > astrological principles for concluding any correct prediction with > > so many self developed > > softwares. > > > > Heartly thanks for your comments. > > Hope now you will go through my entire blog. Hope to hear soon. > > Yours truly, > > > > > > Sanat > > Readers may write on my email Sanatkumar_jain@ > > > > > > > > > > , " Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj " > > <nirbhar@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sanat, > > > your document has already been in the group file section. You have > > > raised some crucials issues. It would be better if you put your > > book > > > free of cost on net, so that your ideas reach each and every > > person. > > > In my opinion,Most of your querries in your letter have simple > > > answers.You have not given your views about these questions.Anyhow > > we > > > assure you that these will be taken up in future and You are > > welcome > > > to discuss step by step in the group if you have any doubts about > > the > > > astrological studies. But Presently we are discussing the LalKitab > > > system.If you have any doubts regarding this system to discuss,you > > > are welcome. > > > Regards > > > Nirmal Kumar > > > Moderator > > > PS. Without jumping in the Sea one cannot explore its richness. > > > > > > , > > > " sanat2221 " <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to some > > > > misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not studied in > > > depth > > > > but you only have faith, because you have been informed like > > this. > > > So > > > > come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as to > > whether > > > > astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of science due > > to > > > > some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the sentiments of > > > > astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only want > > to > > > > emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let us > > > examine > > > > it and then there will be no question of hurting, because you > > have > > > > not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are standing > > > in > > > > support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has been > > > > infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology is a > > > > science without knowing the story of other side. I can understand > > > the > > > > problem of astrologer that they will loose their business but if > > > you > > > > are a client then you must have right to know the truth or call > > an > > > > astrologer in the consumer forum. > > > > > > > > At the time of formulating the astrological principles in early > > > > Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being has > > > > capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This > > > religious > > > > philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet (Sun, > > Moon, > > > > Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days only > > > sages > > > > had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus after > > > > prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill to > > > predict > > > > solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called > > grabbing > > > > the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu. > > > > They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and its > > > > duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer donations > > > etc. > > > > to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which is > > still > > > > being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of > > > everybody > > > > is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this situation, > > it > > > > was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict the fate > > of > > > > deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict the > > fate > > > of > > > > King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate various > > > > astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge of > > sages > > > > based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These > > > principles > > > > were the key factors for deciding the fate. > > > > > > > > Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never > > > percolated > > > > in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier to learn > > > > such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these principles > > were > > > > spread to other civilisation and later on developed as Western > > > system. > > > > What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One group > > > > belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology due to > > > > their business considerations (these astrologers always try to > > fit > > > > past event very precisely within some astrological principle > > within > > > a > > > > capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and faith > > etc., > > > > but they are unable to predict any future event. Because > > > astrological > > > > principles lead to diverse predictions and that too diabolical > > > > opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in fluke) may > > > come > > > > true then they start to harp on the same prediction and start > > self > > > > praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on other > > > > horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only > > mislead, > > > > create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can find > > > that > > > > only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group (say > > > > scientist) try to raise some logical questions against astrology. > > > But > > > > none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was the > > > level > > > > of information of sages about the Universe, who developed > > > > astrological principles in primitive age and what procedure was > > > > adopted to formulate various principles relating to Lordship, > > > > Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect, Vinshottary > > > > periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles then > > > following > > > > questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in > > subpara). > > > > > > > > 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among seven > > > > planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ? > > > > > > > > It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the stationary > > > > Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on………. > > > > > > > > 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is enmity and > > > > friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are enemy of > > > each > > > > other) ? > > > > Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and demons over > > > > nector after sea-churning……….. > > > > 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect (full, > > > quarter > > > > to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect on > > seventh > > > > house) ? > > > > Based on the position of army in the battle field……….. > > > > > > > > 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are exalted > > and > > > > debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. of Aries > > > > sign) ? > > > > Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when duration of > > the > > > > day is more in comparison to night…… > > > > 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful and hub > > > of > > > > our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha whereas Venus > > > (a > > > > small planet) has 20 years ? > > > > Based on two triangles derived after working out the effect of > > > > Universe on the basis of lord and exalted……. > > > > 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various constellations > > > between > > > > nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ? > > > > > > > > Kratica was first constellation in Indian scriptures………. > > > > > > > > 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a week > > > > (Sunday, Monday etc.) ? > > > > Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the > > structure > > > > of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away….. > > > > > > > > 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde motion of > > > > Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)? > > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse….. > > > > 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are 180 > > deg. > > > > apart? > > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse……….. > > > > 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of eclipse ? > > > > Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation month………. > > > > > > > > Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question as to > > > > whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one gave > > > > answers to these questions then he will realise that entire > > > > astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept of > > > > Universe. > > > > > > > > Everybody may agree that every research is based on the then > > > > knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed by sage > > > > Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is in the > > > > centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed in all > > > > religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read any > > old > > > > scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas Moon is > > > beyond > > > > Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury and Moon. > > > > You may be surprised to know that all astrological principles are > > > > actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self studying > > > astrology > > > > since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude correct > > > > prediction. But if it is true at one time then same combination > > is > > > > not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh logically and > > > > systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive > > concept > > > > (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling in view > > of > > > > modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive concept > > > of > > > > Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed. > > > > After lot of research I wrote an original book on astrology > > > " Jyotish - > > > > Kitna sahi kitna galat " in Hindi (330 pages). This book contains > > > the > > > > detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles on the > > > basis > > > > of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our sages > > to > > > > formulate these principles. This book was also published in > > English > > > > with the title " Astrology a science or myth " (450 pages). You can > > > > realize that this is revolutionary book and will change the face > > of > > > > predictive astrology in due course. If you interested to know > > more > > > > about the book or description of various chapters then you may > > send > > > > email to me. The book is being marketed in USA /UK etc. > > > > Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do? > > produktID=1759836 > > > > > > > > http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp?AUB=sanat% > > 20kumar% > > > > 20jain & TAG= & CID= > > > > > > > > http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx? > > > > ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t > > > > > > > > At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, Neptune nor > > > they > > > > were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to presence > > > of > > > > Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed the > > > concept > > > > of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It was > > mentioned > > > in > > > > the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came within > > 14 > > > > degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon). But > > > nobody > > > > will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse when > > > Sun, > > > > Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree respectively > > > on > > > > 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, Moon and > > > Ketu > > > > were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on 03- 03- > > 1988 > > > ( > > > > Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar > > eclipses > > > > occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was more then > > > > 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at 79.04 > > > deg. > > > > on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon were at > > > 76.49 > > > > deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu was > > 15.14 > > > > deg. away). > > > > To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you will > > also > > > > find in many modern astrological books that eclipse occurred at > > the > > > > intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it was > > not > > > > known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis of > > > myth). > > > > Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse, when > > Moon > > > > happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be there. But > > > As > > > > per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11- 1985 > > and > > > 3- > > > > 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were full > > solar > > > > eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 degree > > > > respectively. You will agree that when there were full solar > > > eclipses > > > > then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and 166 > > > degree > > > > respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may possible. > > > > Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in almanac. > > > Thus > > > > there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees respectively. > > > All > > > > horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this > > fundamental > > > > positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you want > > then > > > I > > > > can give many more examples and very simple method of detecting > > > them. > > > > I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a science but > > in > > > > primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of astronomy + > > > > psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science, psychology > > > > (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive age) > > played > > > an > > > > important role in handling a person by the astrologer due to > > > immense > > > > faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology > > appears > > > to > > > > be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will also > > agree > > > > with the above observation after going through my original > > > > revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-decided as > > was > > > > contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may try to > > > do > > > > some thing, because every thing will take place according to pre- > > > > written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of modifying that > > > pre- > > > > written destiny, because if we try to change only our fate, even > > > then > > > > all attached happening will automatically change creating a > > > cascading > > > > effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of every > > > > person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or say pre- > > > > defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when every > > > Tom, > > > > Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship, good > > deed > > > > etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under change. > > > You > > > > will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical > > > > calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and can > > never > > > > and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart cannot be > > > > altered it means result of calculation or say prediction is also > > > > fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever > > > prewritten) > > > > by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc. because in > > > > that case, if you like to say, then future events will be altered > > > but > > > > how a calculation of planetary transit or linked prediction can > > be > > > > changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed transit of > > > > planets? > > > > > > > > Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest assured > > > that > > > > actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. Only > > > astronomy > > > > and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were used > > > > unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it appears > > > correct. > > > > Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a myth. > > Still > > > if > > > > you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact The > > James > > > > Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000 prize to > > > > anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-mail and > > > > website is jref@ and http://www.randi.org Because modern > > > > technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being used to > > > > spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested business > > > > interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight this sort > > > of > > > > ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in this > > regard > > > > and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology > > > > (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to formulate > > > > principles was neither logical nor based on correct information > > of > > > > Universe, solar system. > > > > > > > > I will like to have your critical comments for further > > interaction > > > on > > > > my email sanatkumar_jain@ . It would be better to know > > > > the roots of astrology and facts, data behind it before falling > > in > > > > the trap and come forward to join hands because of AIDS > > (Astrology > > > Is > > > > Damaging Society). > > > > Sanat Kumar Jain > > > > Gwalior > > > > > > > > Reader may directly write to me on my email instead of creating > > > > problems to moderator > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Astrology a science or myth Dear Sanat Ji, I will try to give the answer point wise. My answers are in Caps Let us move further with our views. Though you have left many points untouched from my 1st and 2nd mail, but it is always your right to answer on some points and left others. But I will try to answer your points. Sorry for any adverse comments. AS I ALREADY SAID THAT THIS GROUP IS PRESENTLY DISCUSSING LALKITAB, IT IS NOT REQUIRED TO GIVE ANSWERS BECAUSE THESE ARE NOT USEFUL IN THE STUDY OF LALKITAB. I DONT FIND ANY ADVERSITY ON YOUR COMMENTS. >>>>>>when I completed my graduation(Rishi) in astrology course in the institute.<<<<<<< This is the main problem which is not allowing you to review whole situation with new angle. Though these points came to your mind before completing the course but you have not clarified those points during the completion of course. DEAR SANAT JI, I STUDIED AND STUDY EVERY SUBJECT UNORTHODOX WAY. IT IS MY WAY OF TAKING A SUBJECT.YOURS SEEMS TO THE SAME, MAY BE LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT. I STUDIED THE TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGY AS WELL AS ASTRONOMY.I FOUND ALL THE ANSWERS. STILL I WAS NOT SATISFIED WITH THE TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGICAL SYSTEMS. BY THE GRACE OF GOD SOME GOOD FRIENDS HAS INTRODUCED ME TO THIS NEW SYSTEM OF ASTROLOGY A FEW YEARS BACK. I AM HAPPY THAT I HAVE BEEN TO THIS SYSTEM. >>>>>>…….We term these astrologers as 'Postmortem Astrologers',>>>>>>>> Good comment. >>>>>>> ………It means that we should keep apart what we read so far in other system of astrology.<<<<<<<< Yes, but if you take some thing from other branch then either you must know about it or may be prepared to answer the questions raised. Thus if you are leaving rashi / nachatra then why are you (You means LK. In future too take it as LK) using Aries sign in ascendant, and how you have worked out that Saturn / mars etc are evil planets, and how you have worked out that so and so planet can be befooled by so and so colour. Actually all this tradition have been borrowed from planetary astrology. FOR LEARNING ANY SYSTEM YOU MUST FIRST BECOME A PART OF THAT SYSTEM LEAVING A PART THE PRESET MIND. I AM NOT TERMING ANY SYSTEM WRONG. IT IS ONES OWN LEVEL OF SATISFACTION. YOU ARE ACTUALY NOT BEEN FAMILIAR TO LALKITAB SYSTEM. EVERY PLANET IN THIS SYSTEM CAN BE EVIL OR GOOD. I DONT FIND IT IS WRITTEN IN ANY BOOK THAT A PLANET CAN BE BEFOOLED.BY THE WAY WHEN YOU DONT TREAT PLANET LIVE THEN YOUR QUESTION OF FOOLING THE PLANET SHOULD NOT ARISE. DISCUSSION CAN ONLY BE TAKEN ON THE SAME PRINCIPLE OR SUBJECT. YOUR PRINCIPLES ARE DIFFERENT THAN OURS. IT IS BETTER FOR US TO KEEP ON INDIVIDUAL STUDIES. >>>>>>>Regarding other queries of eclipse etc,it is a chapter of astronomy and every answer lies there. <<<<<<<< Why astronomy, now you are using science. Eclipse etc were part of astrology and they are still part of astrology. Though scientist classified it as astronomy. Let them. But you can answer it under astrology and clarify as to why Rahu was 11/12 degrees away from the point of eclipse and so on. Otherwise placement of Rahu and remedy by LK would not be wrong. Because Rahu may not be there, where you are placing and treating him. DEGREES DOES NOT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE IN LALKITAB. WE DONT USE DEGREES MINUTELY HERE. ONLY USE OF ASTRONOMY IN LALKITAB IS THE ASCENDENT, THAT IS TOO TO FIX THE PLANETARY POSITION. STILL IT IS OPEN FOR ASTROLOGER TO CORRRECT THE POSITION OF PLANETS AS PER SYMPTOMS EXISTS IN THE NATIVE LIFE. THIS IS SCIENCE OF LK. >>>>>>> what our ancient edicts say about it, I cannot comment upon it as I do not know Sanskrit and I have not read any original books because of lack of Sanskrit knowledge. <<<<<<<< It has nothing to do as to whether you know Sanskrit or not. Because when you are following some thing of sages it means you think that they are correct hence you must be prepared to answer any querry or read further because you are following something only after reading translation so what is the harm in answering after reading some further translation. IT IS ONE'S OWN IDEOLOGY. I AM IN THE OPINION THAT THE EPICS/BOOKS SHALL BE READ IN THE LANGUAGE IN WHICH IT IS WRITTEN BY AUTHOR. TRANSLATERS PUT THEIR OWN MIND IN THE TRANSLATION HENCE MAKES THE USEFUL AS WASTE SOMETIMES. I KNOW THE LANGUAGE IN WHICH THE LALKITAB IS WRITTEN HENCE I FIND THIS SYSTEM MORE FAMILIAR AND USEFUL.THIS STUDY IS SIMPLE AND DOES NOT REQUIRE THAT HUGE MATHEMETICAL CALCULATIONS. >>>>>Terming any research wrong on the basis of any translated material is not justified as far as me is concerned. <<<<<<<< Then how terming any translated material as right may be justified. TRY TO READ THE ORIGINAL AVAILABLE MATERIAL. IF ONE IS SO ANXIOUS HE CAN LEARN THAT LANGUAGE. 'WHY TO SEE FROM OTHERS EYES, WHEN ONE HAS HIS OWN EYES INTACT'. >>>>>>>It is for the user to accept or reject as per there experiences. <<<<< No, it is not the experience by which some one goes to any pathy. Because experience here is not personal but social. But if some one say that you are going to wrong pathy then one must rethink. In the same way when scientist say that YOU MUST JUDGE THE CALLIBRE OF THE PERSON WHO SAY THAT 'YOU ARE WRONG'. SCIENTIST HAD BEEN SAYING FOR THE LAST 50 YEARS THAT BCG INJECTION IS GOOD TO SAY GOODBYE TO TB. NOW WHAT HAPPENS THEY SAY 'IT IS USELESS'. IT IS THEIR EXPERIENCE WHICH CHANGES THEIR VERSION. IN MY VIEWS 'ONES OWN EXPERIENCE RULES OVER AND ABOVE WHAT PEOPLE SAY'. >>>>>planets as dead dudes <<<<< then why don't you rethink and come out with some solid scientific proof. Do you believe the concept of solar system or you believe that Earth is stationary and flat and so on…………….. CAN YOU DEFINE WORD 'SCIENCE'. I BELIEVE EARTH IS FLAT AND STATIONARY AS FAR AS I AM ON EARTH. WHEN I GO TO SPACE THEN I WILL SAY EARTH IS MOVING AND ROUND. IT IS LAW OF RELATIVITY. ASTROLOGY IS BASED UPON SOLAR SYSTEM. EVERY HUMAN BEING IS AFFECTED BY THESE PLANETS. YOU KNOW THERE IS NO PLANET NAMELY RAHU & KETU IN SOLAR SYSTEM. EVEN THEN YOU ARE DISUCSSING RAHU & KETU. BECAUSE THESE POSITIONS OF MOON ORBIT AFFECT THE PLANETARY ENERGY. >>>>>>We consider each and every surroundings whether living or nonliving, stationery or movable has an effect on human behavior. <<<<<< Where it is written in any scripture. Scientifically, a Car standing nearby you may have more gravitational effect then a planet. WHY ONE WEAR CLOTHES OF DIFFERENT DESIGN. WHY ONE WANT THAT HIS CAR BE SO SHINY. WHY ONE WANT THAT HIS HOUSE BE LOOKED SO CLEAN AND BETTER. THESE ALL ARE NON LIVING. BECAUSE IT AFFECTS OUR MIND. STILL YOU SAY THAT THESE DOES NOT AFFECT HUMAN BEING. CAN YOU LIVE WITH DEAD. EVEN THE SCRIPTURE ARE AFFECTING YOU SO MUCH AND MAKE YOU RESTLESS EVEN THESE ARE NON LIVING. WHY WANT SUN ENERGY IF PLANET IS DEAD. IT IS ONES OWN WAY OF TERMING THE LIFE. YOUR WAY IS DIFFERENT FROM OURS. ENJOY YOUR LIFE AND LET US ENJOY OURS. >>>>>It may be your own experience that these planets do not effect any body. This debate continue to exist as long as the scientists don't make human being in laboratory and keep the atma or soul in their control. <<<<<<<<< These two points (soul and planets) are totally not linked with each other. And continue to keep watch scientific research. Are they not creating human beings in test tube and so on again we will left our main point I FEEL YOU HAVE NO SCIETIFIC(YOUR TERM) ANSWER TO THIS. THEY ARE CREATING TEST TUBES WITH HUMAN EMBRIYO. LET THEM MAKE DEAD ALIVE OT MAKE HUMAN BEING NEVER DIE.TILL THEN WE HAVE TO BELIEVE WHAT WE THINK. YOU MAY DELINK SOUL AND PLANETS, BUT THESE ARE UNIVERSALLY LINKED. >>>>>>As per Lalkitab theory if one consider-Sun as his own soul & body, the father/dada as -Brihaspati(Guru), Moon as mother or mother like , Mercury as sister,daughter or Bhua, Mars as Brother, Shukkar as Wife or husband, Saturn as Chacha, rahu as Sasur, Ketu as Son, he is not doing any sin. This will not harm the society, it will rather help to knit well the harmony in the families.>>>>>> No, it is not going to knit well the family. If instead of thinking Sukra as your wife and pleasing that planet, It would be much better if you try to please your wife. Likewise you can try to please yourself (instead of Sun), Teacher, father (instead of Brihspati) and so on. Thus family will be well knit. And more over how a planetary body of thousands/laks km in diameter is going to locate your curd, milk, oil and so on and will amend himself by changing his effect so that it may left you and grab your neighbour. IT IS ONE OWN WAY OF EXPERIENCING. HAVE YOU EVER READ PANCHTANTRA STORIES. THEY AFFECT MORE THAN A TEACHERS LECTURE. I DONT FIND IN THE BOOKS THAT YOU CAN GRAB YOUR NEIGHBOUR BY CURD OR ANY METHOD. STUDY THE BOOK, USE THE SYSTEM, EXPERIENCE IT THEN GIVE YOUR FINDINGS. THIS IS A BETTER WAY OF CRITICIZING. ONLY QUESTION IS EXPLOITATION OF INNOCENT BY LUSTY PEOPLE. IF YOU STUDY A SYSTEM THEN AND ONLY THEN YOU CAN MAKE PEOPLE AWARE THAT HOW THEY ARE BEING EXPLOITED BY UNSCRUPLOUS PERSONS. >>>>>>…. therefore it is a waste of time to keep on discussing such useless data.>>>>>>>> It is your right to stop this interaction. YES, YOU ARE RIGHT. >>>>I have seen the 'Eskain Kundli " and truly speaking I could not understand the contents of the kundli.<<<<<< This kundli was devised to cover all astrological principles so that their may not be any possibility to get some escape route from any final result But even despite this that is all sort of pathological examination ie. Blood test, xray, scan and so on. there is not a true result. You have to read my original book " Jyotish kitna sahi kitna galat " for knowing in detail. Though hints have been given in the horoscope it self. I DONT REQUIRE YOU BOOK NOW. PRESENTLY I AM STUDYING MORE IMPORTANT SYSTEM. REGARDING YOUR KUNDLI ,IN MY OPINION, IN FACT WHAT I FEEL IS THAT AFTER 35 YEARS OF YOUR STUDY, YOU HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO DECODE YOUR KUNDLI. I INVITE YOU TO STUDY THIS SYSTEM FOR 3 YEARS SO, YOU WILL FIND ALL THE ANSWERS. >>>>>> you have a research based mind and Lalkitab requires such types of person to explore it. It is welcome step if you start studying this system and bring your research out.>>>>>>> I have already gone through LK. But mother of all sort of predictive / remedial measure is planetary astrology. Other branches have adopted some portion of planetary astrology. Yes I am ready to research in any direction, because I am totally open minded but there must be some logical reasoning where I could move. If you will go through my book and find some point where I must move then I am ready to move. NO YOU HAVE NOT GONE THROUGH THIS BOOK. YOU MAY HAVE GONE TRANSLATED MATERIALS WHICH DEPICTS MORE WRONG THAN RIGHT.THESE TRANSLATED MATERIALS ARE INCOMPLETE, WRONG AND ARE WRONGLY TRANSLATED. WE HAVE TO PUT SOME OF THE BEST TRANSLATED MATERIAL FREE OF CHARGE ON NET. THIS MATERIAL STILL NOT FULLY CORRECT BUT IS MORE THAN 70% NEAR TO CORRECT. YOU CAN REFER TO THAT MATERIAL FOR FLAVOUR. YOU MAY FIND IT UNIQUE. AS YOU READ THE BOOK YOU WILL FIND THE LOGIC. WRITER HAS NOT HIDE NAY THING WHICH CAME TO HIS MIND. THESE ARE VERY INTERESTING AND GOOD BOOKS TO STUDY PREFERABLY IF YOU KNOW URDU YOU READ ORIGINALS.THESE ARE PUT ONLINE INTO THE WEB FOR READING. WE ALSO PROVIDE FREE CD OF THESE BOOKS. Dear Sanat Ji, Presently It will not be possible for me to discuss this matter any further. we may discuss it on some other time when discussion on LK system ends. I consider you an intelligent and unorthodox student of astrology. I wish you read this system and write books of your findings. Best regards Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Dear JAGMOHAN Ji, Thanks for your reply, If you are bent upon to link any two irrelevant point that doing some irrelevant action, it will warn the planets who are millions Km away then what I can say. Moreover I am not doing any `Behas " , I am just asking as to why so and so principle was formulated or in your language how so and so remedy was devised. >>>>>>>>. Jis jatak ka rahu 8th house mein ho aur sun 4th house mein ho app usko sikka (led) jal prvah karva kar dekhe kya result milta hai iss tarah ke 50 jatak talash karen or study karen.<<<<<<<<<< If you are interested then you can do your experiment and collect the data. Persons (one in 12 or say 8%) having such combination were borne during 15-6-1957 to 15-7-1957 15-6-58 to 15-7-58 15-5-59 to 15-6-59 15-4-60 to 15-5-60 (like wise you may continue and can find out many persons by collecting data from the forum) If you want I can give you many more dates. >>>>>> chahta aap LK ke result dekhiye.<<<<<<<<< DO NOT FORGET THAT THERE IS NO SHORTCUT IN LIFE. If you have so much faith then you must not advise others to take help of these LK remedies but it would be much more beneficial to you if you ask your family members (including childrens) to take help of LK remedies in their entire life instead of some hard work, dedication etc. KAASH YEH JEEVAN ITNA HI AASAAN HOTA TO SABHI AARAAM SEE RAH RAHE HOTE. OK , Thanks Yours truly, sanat , " mts3434 " <mts3434 wrote: > > DEAR SANAT JEE, > mein aapko LK ke baare mein kuchh bata raha hoon kripya iss par kuchh > reaschr karen. Jis jatak ka rahu 8th house mein ho aur sun 4th house > mein ho app usko sikka (led) jal prvah karva kar dekhe kya result > milta hai iss tarah ke 50 jatak talash karen or study karen. Iss > tarah kee kuchh or bhee baaten apko milengi ya mein bata doonga or > study karen LK par aapka swagat hai.jyotish sahi ya galat iss behas > mein nahi padna chahta aap LK ke result dekhiye. > JAGMOHAN > , " kulbirbains " > <kulbirbainz@> wrote: > > > > sanat ji, on one hand u claim to have done research on indian > > astrology for 35 years and yet you call tounge as a coming under > > mars, feet and head under saturn. how do u expect us to enter a > > debate when u don't have even primary knowledge about indian > > astrology. > > please get some knowledge of lalkitab and then we can discuss.the > > moderator is not going to be disturbed by any objections. please > > don't have any such apprehensions. i assure he will be more than > > happy if this group leads someone to clarity. i think pradeep ji is > > correct that u studied only the yavan system and not indian > > astrology and philosphy. u should do some more research on energy > > fields/emitions. meaning of upaya, importance of symbology etc. > also > > read something about sanchit, arjit and prarabadh., shakki and > pakka > > grahas in lalkitab. > > kulbir > > , " sanat2221 " > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > Astrology a science or myth > > > > > > Dear Bhardwaj Ji, > > > Namaskar, > > > Thanks for your comments and suggestion of putting the book on > > net. > > > But it cannot be done because now it will be against copyright of > > > publisher and Hindi book " Jyotish Kitna Sahi Kitna galat " has > > > original research based 325 pages, which is not a small book. > > > > > > >>>>> In my opinion,Most of your querries in your letter have > > simple > > > answers <<<<<<<<< > > > > > > It may be, but if you have these simple answers then I am > waiting > > > for that, and if you have these logical answers in view of the > > then > > > primitive knowledge then you may also know that these > astrological > > > principles are not logical in view of modern knowledge, which is > > > quite against the primitive concept. > > > > > > >>>>>>>>You have not given your views about these > > questions.<<<<<<<< > > > > > > It is not correct, I have given a hint for every question and for > > > detail analysis and procedure adopted to formulate all > > astrological > > > principles you have to go through the book " Jyotish Kitna Sahi > > Kitna > > > galat " . > > > > > > >>>>>>>discuss step by step in the group if you have any doubts > > about > > > the astrological studies.<<<<<<< > > > > > > I have already raised many points or doubts in astrological > > > principles now it is your turn to answer, yes, you can answer > step > > by > > > step. > > > > > > >>>>>>Presently we are discussing the LalKitab > > > system.If you have any doubts regarding this system to > > discuss<<<<<<< > > > > > > The remedies of LK is for correcting effect of planets. When I am > > > raising questions against astrology it-self then it is obvious > > that > > > LK is being questioned. Life is not so easy which can be moulded > > > (because we have to mould others life for getting some thing for > > our > > > life) by some curd, almond, rise, ice, oil etc. If you change the > > > course of anyone's life with socalled remedies then where is the > > > prediction which is fixed because birth horoscope and transit of > > the > > > planets and their effect as worked out after applying the > > > astrological principles are fixed. And if you change some effect > > (as > > > you claim) then it will generate cascading effect, which in turn > > will > > > change the future of every one not alone the individual who is > > > carrying out the remedy. > > > > > > So long every one is in the grip of Saturn from both ends (black > > > hair and footwear) with Mars in between (tounge and blood) you > > can > > > not cure planets. Thus you may start to suggest for shaving the > > head > > > of women without footwear and spilt the tounge and try to remove > > the > > > blood only then some one can be cured from the ill effect of > > > planets. IS IT POSSIBLE ??? > > > > > > We Indians are very simple with little ambitions and do not want > > to > > > take pains and always try to get some shortcut by this way or > that > > > way. BUT THERE IS NO SHORTCUT OF SUCCESS IN LIFE. However, > > > individual with weak mental status may be lured to correct every > > odd > > > of the life with some curd or almond. If it would have been so > > > simple then there is no need of any school, hospital and law > etc. > > > because every thing would have achieved with some remedy either > > > competition or business or illness and so on. Thus actually by > > > supporting such concept we are underestimating the labour of > > sincere > > > hard working individuals. > > > > > > >>>>>>>PS. Without jumping in the Sea one cannot explore its > > > richness.<<<<<<< > > > How you can say so when I am studying astrology since last 35 > > years > > > and try to conclude any one correct principle. If you have any > one > > > correct principle then Please let me know. I am also uploading > > a > > > file " Eskain Kundali " in your file section by which you can see > > > that I myself developed and drawn a horoscope covering all sort > > of > > > astrological principles for concluding any correct prediction > > with > > > so many self developed > > > softwares. > > > > > > Heartly thanks for your comments. > > > Hope now you will go through my entire blog. Hope to hear soon. > > > Yours truly, > > > > > > > > > Sanat > > > Readers may write on my email Sanatkumar_jain@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj " > > > <nirbhar@> wrote: > > > > > > >> > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Nirmal ji, very rightly summed up. astronomy is an important tool for astrology. but astrology has many other aspects also. Sanant ji has relied on astronomy a bit too much. also when someone has put coloured glasses before his eyes, he sees all the objects in that shade only. Sanat ji should heed to ur request to put atleast 3 years in study of lalkitab. what a pity someone puts 36 years of study in astrology and doesn't know about lalkitab despite belonging to india. nevertheless it is never too late. On 1/21/08, Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj <nirbhar wrote: Astrology a science or mythDear Sanat Ji,I will try to give the answer point wise. My answers are in CapsLet us move further with our views. Though you have left many points untouched from my 1st and 2nd mail, but it is always your right toanswer on some points and left others. But I will try to answer yourpoints. Sorry for any adverse comments.AS I ALREADY SAID THAT THIS GROUP IS PRESENTLY DISCUSSING LALKITAB, IT IS NOT REQUIRED TO GIVE ANSWERS BECAUSE THESE ARE NOT USEFUL IN THE STUDY OF LALKITAB. I DONT FIND ANY ADVERSITY ON YOUR COMMENTS. >>>>>>when I completed my graduation(Rishi) in astrology course in the institute.<<<<<<<This is the main problem which is not allowing you to review wholesituation with new angle. Though these points came to your mindbefore completing the course but you have not clarified those points during the completion of course.DEAR SANAT JI, I STUDIED AND STUDY EVERY SUBJECT UNORTHODOX WAY. IT IS MY WAY OF TAKING A SUBJECT.YOURS SEEMS TO THE SAME, MAY BE LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT. I STUDIED THE TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGY AS WELL AS ASTRONOMY.I FOUND ALL THE ANSWERS. STILL I WAS NOT SATISFIED WITH THE TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGICAL SYSTEMS. BY THE GRACE OF GOD SOME GOOD FRIENDS HAS INTRODUCED ME TO THIS NEW SYSTEM OF ASTROLOGY A FEW YEARS BACK. I AM HAPPY THAT I HAVE BEEN TO THIS SYSTEM. >>>>>>…….We term these astrologers as 'PostmortemAstrologers',>>>>>>>>Good comment.>>>>>>> ………It means that we should keep apart what we read so far in other system of astrology.<<<<<<<<Yes, but if you take some thing from other branch then either youmust know about it or may be prepared to answer the questions raised.Thus if you are leaving rashi / nachatra then why are you (You means LK. In future too take it as LK) using Aries sign in ascendant, andhow you have worked out that Saturn / mars etc are evil planets, andhow you have worked out that so and so planet can be befooled by soand so colour. Actually all this tradition have been borrowed from planetary astrology.FOR LEARNING ANY SYSTEM YOU MUST FIRST BECOME A PART OF THAT SYSTEM LEAVING A PART THE PRESET MIND. I AM NOT TERMING ANY SYSTEM WRONG. IT IS ONES OWN LEVEL OF SATISFACTION. YOU ARE ACTUALY NOT BEEN FAMILIAR TO LALKITAB SYSTEM. EVERY PLANET IN THIS SYSTEM CAN BE EVIL OR GOOD. I DONT FIND IT IS WRITTEN IN ANY BOOK THAT A PLANET CAN BE BEFOOLED.BY THE WAY WHEN YOU DONT TREAT PLANET LIVE THEN YOUR QUESTION OF FOOLING THE PLANET SHOULD NOT ARISE. DISCUSSION CAN ONLY BE TAKEN ON THE SAME PRINCIPLE OR SUBJECT. YOUR PRINCIPLES ARE DIFFERENT THAN OURS. IT IS BETTER FOR US TO KEEP ON INDIVIDUAL STUDIES. >>>>>>>Regarding other queries of eclipse etc,it is a chapter ofastronomy and every answer lies there. <<<<<<<<Why astronomy, now you are using science. Eclipse etc were part of astrology and they are still part of astrology. Though scientistclassified it as astronomy. Let them. But you can answer it underastrology and clarify as to why Rahu was 11/12 degrees away from thepoint of eclipse and so on. Otherwise placement of Rahu and remedy by LK would not be wrong. Because Rahu may not be there, where you areplacing and treating him.DEGREES DOES NOT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE IN LALKITAB. WE DONT USE DEGREES MINUTELY HERE. ONLY USE OF ASTRONOMY IN LALKITAB IS THE ASCENDENT, THAT IS TOO TO FIX THE PLANETARY POSITION. STILL IT IS OPEN FOR ASTROLOGER TO CORRRECT THE POSITION OF PLANETS AS PER SYMPTOMS EXISTS IN THE NATIVE LIFE. THIS IS SCIENCE OF LK. >>>>>>> what our ancient edicts say about it, I cannot comment upon it as I do not know Sanskrit and I have not readany original books because of lack of Sanskrit knowledge. <<<<<<<<It has nothing to do as to whether you know Sanskrit or not. Because when you are following some thing of sages it means you think thatthey are correct hence you must be prepared to answer any querry orread further because you are following something only after readingtranslation so what is the harm in answering after reading some further translation.IT IS ONE'S OWN IDEOLOGY. I AM IN THE OPINION THAT THE EPICS/BOOKS SHALL BE READ IN THE LANGUAGE IN WHICH IT IS WRITTEN BY AUTHOR. TRANSLATERS PUT THEIR OWN MIND IN THE TRANSLATION HENCE MAKES THE USEFUL AS WASTE SOMETIMES. I KNOW THE LANGUAGE IN WHICH THE LALKITAB IS WRITTEN HENCE I FIND THIS SYSTEM MORE FAMILIAR AND USEFUL.THIS STUDY IS SIMPLE AND DOES NOT REQUIRE THAT HUGE MATHEMETICAL CALCULATIONS. >>>>>Terming any research wrong on the basis of any translatedmaterial is not justified as far as me is concerned. <<<<<<<<Then how terming any translated material as right may be justified. TRY TO READ THE ORIGINAL AVAILABLE MATERIAL. IF ONE IS SO ANXIOUS HE CAN LEARN THAT LANGUAGE.'WHY TO SEE FROM OTHERS EYES, WHEN ONE HAS HIS OWN EYES INTACT'.>>>>>>>It is for the user to accept or reject as per there experiences. <<<<<No, it is not the experience by which some one goes to any pathy.Because experience here is not personal but social. But if some onesay that you are going to wrong pathy then one must rethink. In the same way when scientist say thatYOU MUST JUDGE THE CALLIBRE OF THE PERSON WHO SAY THAT 'YOU ARE WRONG'. SCIENTIST HAD BEEN SAYING FOR THE LAST 50 YEARS THAT BCG INJECTION IS GOOD TO SAY GOODBYE TO TB. NOW WHAT HAPPENS THEY SAY 'IT IS USELESS'. IT IS THEIR EXPERIENCE WHICH CHANGES THEIR VERSION.IN MY VIEWS 'ONES OWN EXPERIENCE RULES OVER AND ABOVE WHAT PEOPLE SAY'.>>>>>planets as dead dudes <<<<< then why don't you rethink and come out with some solid scientificproof. Do you believe the concept of solar system or you believe thatEarth is stationary and flat and so on……………..CAN YOU DEFINE WORD 'SCIENCE'. I BELIEVE EARTH IS FLAT AND STATIONARY AS FAR AS I AM ON EARTH. WHEN I GO TO SPACE THEN I WILL SAY EARTH IS MOVING AND ROUND. IT IS LAW OF RELATIVITY. ASTROLOGY IS BASED UPON SOLAR SYSTEM. EVERY HUMAN BEING IS AFFECTED BY THESE PLANETS.YOU KNOW THERE IS NO PLANET NAMELY RAHU & KETU IN SOLAR SYSTEM. EVEN THEN YOU ARE DISUCSSING RAHU & KETU. BECAUSE THESE POSITIONS OF MOON ORBIT AFFECT THE PLANETARY ENERGY. >>>>>>We consider each and every surroundings whether living ornonliving, stationery or movable has an effect on human behavior.<<<<<<Where it is written in any scripture. Scientifically, a Car standing nearby you may have more gravitational effect then a planet.WHY ONE WEAR CLOTHES OF DIFFERENT DESIGN. WHY ONE WANT THAT HIS CAR BE SO SHINY. WHY ONE WANT THAT HIS HOUSE BE LOOKED SO CLEAN AND BETTER. THESE ALL ARE NON LIVING. BECAUSE IT AFFECTS OUR MIND. STILL YOU SAY THAT THESE DOES NOT AFFECT HUMAN BEING. CAN YOU LIVE WITH DEAD. EVEN THE SCRIPTURE ARE AFFECTING YOU SO MUCH AND MAKE YOU RESTLESS EVEN THESE ARE NON LIVING. WHY WANT SUN ENERGY IF PLANET IS DEAD. IT IS ONES OWN WAY OF TERMING THE LIFE. YOUR WAY IS DIFFERENT FROM OURS. ENJOY YOUR LIFE AND LET US ENJOY OURS. >>>>>It may be your own experience that these planets do not effect any body. This debate continue to exist as long as the scientistsdon't make human being in laboratory and keep the atma or soul intheir control. <<<<<<<<<These two points (soul and planets) are totally not linked with each other. And continue to keep watch scientific research. Are they notcreating human beings in test tube and so on again we will left ourmain pointI FEEL YOU HAVE NO SCIETIFIC(YOUR TERM) ANSWER TO THIS. THEY ARE CREATING TEST TUBES WITH HUMAN EMBRIYO. LET THEM MAKE DEAD ALIVE OT MAKE HUMAN BEING NEVER DIE.TILL THEN WE HAVE TO BELIEVE WHAT WE THINK. YOU MAY DELINK SOUL AND PLANETS, BUT THESE ARE UNIVERSALLY LINKED. >>>>>>As per Lalkitab theory if one consider-Sun as his own soul & body, the father/dada as -Brihaspati(Guru), Moon as mother or motherlike , Mercury as sister,daughter or Bhua, Mars as Brother, Shukkar as Wife or husband, Saturn as Chacha, rahu as Sasur, Ketu as Son, heis not doing any sin. This will not harm the society, it will ratherhelp to knit well the harmony in the families.>>>>>> No, it is not going to knit well the family. If instead of thinkingSukra as your wife and pleasing that planet, It would be much betterif you try to please your wife. Likewise you can try to pleaseyourself (instead of Sun), Teacher, father (instead of Brihspati) and so on. Thus family will be well knit. And more over how a planetarybody of thousands/laks km in diameter is going to locate your curd,milk, oil and so on and will amend himself by changing his effect sothat it may left you and grab your neighbour. IT IS ONE OWN WAY OF EXPERIENCING. HAVE YOU EVER READ PANCHTANTRA STORIES. THEY AFFECT MORE THAN A TEACHERS LECTURE. I DONT FIND IN THE BOOKS THAT YOU CAN GRAB YOUR NEIGHBOUR BY CURD OR ANY METHOD. STUDY THE BOOK, USE THE SYSTEM, EXPERIENCE IT THEN GIVE YOUR FINDINGS. THIS IS A BETTER WAY OF CRITICIZING.ONLY QUESTION IS EXPLOITATION OF INNOCENT BY LUSTY PEOPLE. IF YOU STUDY A SYSTEM THEN AND ONLY THEN YOU CAN MAKE PEOPLE AWARE THAT HOW THEY ARE BEING EXPLOITED BY UNSCRUPLOUS PERSONS. >>>>>>…. therefore it is a waste of time tokeep on discussing such useless data.>>>>>>>>It is your right to stop this interaction. YES, YOU ARE RIGHT. >>>>I have seen the 'Eskain Kundli " and truly speaking I could notunderstand the contents of the kundli.<<<<<<This kundli was devised to cover all astrological principles so that their may not be any possibility to get some escape route from anyfinal result But even despite this that is all sort of pathologicalexamination ie. Blood test, xray, scan and so on. there is not a trueresult. You have to read my original book " Jyotish kitna sahi kitna galat " for knowing in detail. Though hints have been given in thehoroscope it self.I DONT REQUIRE YOU BOOK NOW. PRESENTLY I AM STUDYING MORE IMPORTANT SYSTEM. REGARDING YOUR KUNDLI ,IN MY OPINION, IN FACT WHAT I FEEL IS THAT AFTER 35 YEARS OF YOUR STUDY, YOU HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO DECODE YOUR KUNDLI. I INVITE YOU TO STUDY THIS SYSTEM FOR 3 YEARS SO, YOU WILL FIND ALL THE ANSWERS. >>>>>> you have a research based mind and Lalkitab requires such types of person to explore it. It is welcome step if you startstudying this system and bring your research out.>>>>>>>I have already gone through LK. But mother of all sort ofpredictive / remedial measure is planetary astrology. Other branches have adopted some portion of planetary astrology. Yes I am ready toresearch in any direction, because I am totally open minded butthere must be some logical reasoning where I could move. If you willgo through my book and find some point where I must move then I am ready to move.NO YOU HAVE NOT GONE THROUGH THIS BOOK. YOU MAY HAVE GONE TRANSLATED MATERIALS WHICH DEPICTS MORE WRONG THAN RIGHT.THESE TRANSLATED MATERIALS ARE INCOMPLETE, WRONG AND ARE WRONGLY TRANSLATED. WE HAVE TO PUT SOME OF THE BEST TRANSLATED MATERIAL FREE OF CHARGE ON NET. THIS MATERIAL STILL NOT FULLY CORRECT BUT IS MORE THAN 70% NEAR TO CORRECT. YOU CAN REFER TO THAT MATERIAL FOR FLAVOUR. YOU MAY FIND IT UNIQUE. AS YOU READ THE BOOK YOU WILL FIND THE LOGIC. WRITER HAS NOT HIDE NAY THING WHICH CAME TO HIS MIND. THESE ARE VERY INTERESTING AND GOOD BOOKS TO STUDY PREFERABLY IF YOU KNOW URDU YOU READ ORIGINALS.THESE ARE PUT ONLINE INTO THE WEB FOR READING. WE ALSO PROVIDE FREE CD OF THESE BOOKS. Dear Sanat Ji, Presently It will not be possible for me to discuss this matter any further. we may discuss it on some other time when discussion on LK system ends.I consider you an intelligent and unorthodox student of astrology. I wish you read this system and write books of your findings.Best regardsNirmal Kumar Bhardwaj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 Sanat ji; please read out about symbolism. when an upaya like u have written for rahu is done. the native is warned about correcting his lifestyle also. this is the true essence of lalkitab. it may be sufficient for your querry that the upaya is a remedy to constantly remind the native about this thing. but since you don't anything about Rin pitri or as a matter of afct about any of the principles of lalkitab; i can share only this much with you. by the way AIDS= astrology is DEVELOPING society and not DAMAGING society. please give it a thought. kulbir , " sanat2221 " <sanatkumar_jain wrote: > > Dear JAGMOHAN Ji, > Thanks for your reply, > If you are bent upon to link any two irrelevant point that doing some > irrelevant action, it will warn the planets who are millions Km > away then what I can say. Moreover I am not doing any `Behas " , I am > just asking as to why so and so principle was formulated or in your > language how so and so remedy was devised. > >>>>>>>>. Jis jatak ka rahu 8th house mein ho aur sun 4th house > mein ho app usko sikka (led) jal prvah karva kar dekhe kya result > milta hai iss tarah ke 50 jatak talash karen or study karen.<<<<<<<<<< > > If you are interested then you can do your experiment and collect > the data. Persons (one in 12 or say 8%) having such combination were > borne during > 15-6-1957 to 15-7-1957 > 15-6-58 to 15-7-58 > 15-5-59 to 15-6-59 > 15-4-60 to 15-5-60 (like wise you may continue and can find out many > persons by collecting data from the forum) If you want I can give > you many more dates. > > >>>>>> chahta aap LK ke result dekhiye.<<<<<<<<< > DO NOT FORGET THAT THERE IS NO SHORTCUT IN LIFE. If you have so much > faith then you must not advise others to take help of these LK > remedies but it would be much more beneficial to you if you ask your > family members (including childrens) to take help of LK remedies in > their entire life instead of some hard work, dedication etc. KAASH > YEH JEEVAN ITNA HI AASAAN HOTA TO SABHI AARAAM SEE RAH RAHE HOTE. > > OK , Thanks > > Yours truly, > sanat > > > > , " mts3434 " <mts3434@> wrote: > > > > DEAR SANAT JEE, > > mein aapko LK ke baare mein kuchh bata raha hoon kripya iss par > kuchh > > reaschr karen. Jis jatak ka rahu 8th house mein ho aur sun 4th > house > > mein ho app usko sikka (led) jal prvah karva kar dekhe kya result > > milta hai iss tarah ke 50 jatak talash karen or study karen. Iss > > tarah kee kuchh or bhee baaten apko milengi ya mein bata doonga or > > study karen LK par aapka swagat hai.jyotish sahi ya galat iss behas > > mein nahi padna chahta aap LK ke result dekhiye. > > JAGMOHAN > > , " kulbirbains " > > <kulbirbainz@> wrote: > > > > > > sanat ji, on one hand u claim to have done research on indian > > > astrology for 35 years and yet you call tounge as a coming under > > > mars, feet and head under saturn. how do u expect us to enter a > > > debate when u don't have even primary knowledge about indian > > > astrology. > > > please get some knowledge of lalkitab and then we can discuss.the > > > moderator is not going to be disturbed by any objections. please > > > don't have any such apprehensions. i assure he will be more than > > > happy if this group leads someone to clarity. i think pradeep ji > is > > > correct that u studied only the yavan system and not indian > > > astrology and philosphy. u should do some more research on energy > > > fields/emitions. meaning of upaya, importance of symbology etc. > > also > > > read something about sanchit, arjit and prarabadh., shakki and > > pakka > > > grahas in lalkitab. > > > kulbir > > > , " sanat2221 " > > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Astrology a science or myth > > > > > > > > Dear Bhardwaj Ji, > > > > Namaskar, > > > > Thanks for your comments and suggestion of putting the book on > > > net. > > > > But it cannot be done because now it will be against copyright > of > > > > publisher and Hindi book " Jyotish Kitna Sahi Kitna galat " has > > > > original research based 325 pages, which is not a small book. > > > > > > > > >>>>> In my opinion,Most of your querries in your letter have > > > simple > > > > answers <<<<<<<<< > > > > > > > > It may be, but if you have these simple answers then I am > > waiting > > > > for that, and if you have these logical answers in view of the > > > then > > > > primitive knowledge then you may also know that these > > astrological > > > > principles are not logical in view of modern knowledge, which > is > > > > quite against the primitive concept. > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>You have not given your views about these > > > questions.<<<<<<<< > > > > > > > > It is not correct, I have given a hint for every question and > for > > > > detail analysis and procedure adopted to formulate all > > > astrological > > > > principles you have to go through the book " Jyotish Kitna Sahi > > > Kitna > > > > galat " . > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>discuss step by step in the group if you have any doubts > > > about > > > > the astrological studies.<<<<<<< > > > > > > > > I have already raised many points or doubts in astrological > > > > principles now it is your turn to answer, yes, you can answer > > step > > > by > > > > step. > > > > > > > > >>>>>>Presently we are discussing the LalKitab > > > > system.If you have any doubts regarding this system to > > > discuss<<<<<<< > > > > > > > > The remedies of LK is for correcting effect of planets. When I > am > > > > raising questions against astrology it-self then it is obvious > > > that > > > > LK is being questioned. Life is not so easy which can be > moulded > > > > (because we have to mould others life for getting some thing > for > > > our > > > > life) by some curd, almond, rise, ice, oil etc. If you change > the > > > > course of anyone's life with socalled remedies then where is > the > > > > prediction which is fixed because birth horoscope and transit > of > > > the > > > > planets and their effect as worked out after applying the > > > > astrological principles are fixed. And if you change some > effect > > > (as > > > > you claim) then it will generate cascading effect, which in > turn > > > will > > > > change the future of every one not alone the individual who is > > > > carrying out the remedy. > > > > > > > > So long every one is in the grip of Saturn from both ends > (black > > > > hair and footwear) with Mars in between (tounge and blood) you > > > can > > > > not cure planets. Thus you may start to suggest for shaving the > > > head > > > > of women without footwear and spilt the tounge and try to > remove > > > the > > > > blood only then some one can be cured from the ill effect of > > > > planets. IS IT POSSIBLE ??? > > > > > > > > We Indians are very simple with little ambitions and do not > want > > > to > > > > take pains and always try to get some shortcut by this way or > > that > > > > way. BUT THERE IS NO SHORTCUT OF SUCCESS IN LIFE. However, > > > > individual with weak mental status may be lured to correct > every > > > odd > > > > of the life with some curd or almond. If it would have been so > > > > simple then there is no need of any school, hospital and law > > etc. > > > > because every thing would have achieved with some remedy either > > > > competition or business or illness and so on. Thus actually by > > > > supporting such concept we are underestimating the labour of > > > sincere > > > > hard working individuals. > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>PS. Without jumping in the Sea one cannot explore its > > > > richness.<<<<<<< > > > > How you can say so when I am studying astrology since last 35 > > > years > > > > and try to conclude any one correct principle. If you have any > > one > > > > correct principle then Please let me know. I am also > uploading > > > a > > > > file " Eskain Kundali " in your file section by which you can > see > > > > that I myself developed and drawn a horoscope covering all > sort > > > of > > > > astrological principles for concluding any correct prediction > > > with > > > > so many self developed > > > > softwares. > > > > > > > > Heartly thanks for your comments. > > > > Hope now you will go through my entire blog. Hope to hear soon. > > > > Yours truly, > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanat > > > > Readers may write on my email Sanatkumar_jain@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj " > > > > <nirbhar@> wrote: > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 Sanat ji, lalkitab walon ke liye jiwan aasan hi hota hai kyonki woh apni problems ka karan aur kuch hadh tak nivaran janatey hain. kuch problems upaye ke kabil nahin hoti unhe swikaar kar lya jata hai aur aane wali problems se bachne ki koshish ki jati hai. lagta hai aapne koi bhi darshan ki kitab nahin padhi. The Tao of Physics book me quantum physics ki intricate baton ko ved ke sandarbh me bataya gaya hai. agar aap scientific miond rakhte hain to yeh kitab aapke liye badi sarthak hogi. science kya hai. study of cause and effect. isn't it. ab lalkitab bhi yahi hai. hamari shubhkamana aapke saath hai. kulbir , " sanat2221 " <sanatkumar_jain wrote: > > Dear JAGMOHAN Ji, > Thanks for your reply, > If you are bent upon to link any two irrelevant point that doing some > irrelevant action, it will warn the planets who are millions Km > away then what I can say. Moreover I am not doing any `Behas " , I am > just asking as to why so and so principle was formulated or in your > language how so and so remedy was devised. > >>>>>>>>. Jis jatak ka rahu 8th house mein ho aur sun 4th house > mein ho app usko sikka (led) jal prvah karva kar dekhe kya result > milta hai iss tarah ke 50 jatak talash karen or study karen.<<<<<<<<<< > > If you are interested then you can do your experiment and collect > the data. Persons (one in 12 or say 8%) having such combination were > borne during > 15-6-1957 to 15-7-1957 > 15-6-58 to 15-7-58 > 15-5-59 to 15-6-59 > 15-4-60 to 15-5-60 (like wise you may continue and can find out many > persons by collecting data from the forum) If you want I can give > you many more dates. > > >>>>>> chahta aap LK ke result dekhiye.<<<<<<<<< > DO NOT FORGET THAT THERE IS NO SHORTCUT IN LIFE. If you have so much > faith then you must not advise others to take help of these LK > remedies but it would be much more beneficial to you if you ask your > family members (including childrens) to take help of LK remedies in > their entire life instead of some hard work, dedication etc. KAASH > YEH JEEVAN ITNA HI AASAAN HOTA TO SABHI AARAAM SEE RAH RAHE HOTE. > > OK , Thanks > > Yours truly, > sanat > > > > , " mts3434 " <mts3434@> wrote: > > > > DEAR SANAT JEE, > > mein aapko LK ke baare mein kuchh bata raha hoon kripya iss par > kuchh > > reaschr karen. Jis jatak ka rahu 8th house mein ho aur sun 4th > house > > mein ho app usko sikka (led) jal prvah karva kar dekhe kya result > > milta hai iss tarah ke 50 jatak talash karen or study karen. Iss > > tarah kee kuchh or bhee baaten apko milengi ya mein bata doonga or > > study karen LK par aapka swagat hai.jyotish sahi ya galat iss behas > > mein nahi padna chahta aap LK ke result dekhiye. > > JAGMOHAN > > , " kulbirbains " > > <kulbirbainz@> wrote: > > > > > > sanat ji, on one hand u claim to have done research on indian > > > astrology for 35 years and yet you call tounge as a coming under > > > mars, feet and head under saturn. how do u expect us to enter a > > > debate when u don't have even primary knowledge about indian > > > astrology. > > > please get some knowledge of lalkitab and then we can discuss.the > > > moderator is not going to be disturbed by any objections. please > > > don't have any such apprehensions. i assure he will be more than > > > happy if this group leads someone to clarity. i think pradeep ji > is > > > correct that u studied only the yavan system and not indian > > > astrology and philosphy. u should do some more research on energy > > > fields/emitions. meaning of upaya, importance of symbology etc. > > also > > > read something about sanchit, arjit and prarabadh., shakki and > > pakka > > > grahas in lalkitab. > > > kulbir > > > , " sanat2221 " > > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Astrology a science or myth > > > > > > > > Dear Bhardwaj Ji, > > > > Namaskar, > > > > Thanks for your comments and suggestion of putting the book on > > > net. > > > > But it cannot be done because now it will be against copyright > of > > > > publisher and Hindi book " Jyotish Kitna Sahi Kitna galat " has > > > > original research based 325 pages, which is not a small book. > > > > > > > > >>>>> In my opinion,Most of your querries in your letter have > > > simple > > > > answers <<<<<<<<< > > > > > > > > It may be, but if you have these simple answers then I am > > waiting > > > > for that, and if you have these logical answers in view of the > > > then > > > > primitive knowledge then you may also know that these > > astrological > > > > principles are not logical in view of modern knowledge, which > is > > > > quite against the primitive concept. > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>You have not given your views about these > > > questions.<<<<<<<< > > > > > > > > It is not correct, I have given a hint for every question and > for > > > > detail analysis and procedure adopted to formulate all > > > astrological > > > > principles you have to go through the book " Jyotish Kitna Sahi > > > Kitna > > > > galat " . > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>discuss step by step in the group if you have any doubts > > > about > > > > the astrological studies.<<<<<<< > > > > > > > > I have already raised many points or doubts in astrological > > > > principles now it is your turn to answer, yes, you can answer > > step > > > by > > > > step. > > > > > > > > >>>>>>Presently we are discussing the LalKitab > > > > system.If you have any doubts regarding this system to > > > discuss<<<<<<< > > > > > > > > The remedies of LK is for correcting effect of planets. When I > am > > > > raising questions against astrology it-self then it is obvious > > > that > > > > LK is being questioned. Life is not so easy which can be > moulded > > > > (because we have to mould others life for getting some thing > for > > > our > > > > life) by some curd, almond, rise, ice, oil etc. If you change > the > > > > course of anyone's life with socalled remedies then where is > the > > > > prediction which is fixed because birth horoscope and transit > of > > > the > > > > planets and their effect as worked out after applying the > > > > astrological principles are fixed. And if you change some > effect > > > (as > > > > you claim) then it will generate cascading effect, which in > turn > > > will > > > > change the future of every one not alone the individual who is > > > > carrying out the remedy. > > > > > > > > So long every one is in the grip of Saturn from both ends > (black > > > > hair and footwear) with Mars in between (tounge and blood) you > > > can > > > > not cure planets. Thus you may start to suggest for shaving the > > > head > > > > of women without footwear and spilt the tounge and try to > remove > > > the > > > > blood only then some one can be cured from the ill effect of > > > > planets. IS IT POSSIBLE ??? > > > > > > > > We Indians are very simple with little ambitions and do not > want > > > to > > > > take pains and always try to get some shortcut by this way or > > that > > > > way. BUT THERE IS NO SHORTCUT OF SUCCESS IN LIFE. However, > > > > individual with weak mental status may be lured to correct > every > > > odd > > > > of the life with some curd or almond. If it would have been so > > > > simple then there is no need of any school, hospital and law > > etc. > > > > because every thing would have achieved with some remedy either > > > > competition or business or illness and so on. Thus actually by > > > > supporting such concept we are underestimating the labour of > > > sincere > > > > hard working individuals. > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>PS. Without jumping in the Sea one cannot explore its > > > > richness.<<<<<<< > > > > How you can say so when I am studying astrology since last 35 > > > years > > > > and try to conclude any one correct principle. If you have any > > one > > > > correct principle then Please let me know. I am also > uploading > > > a > > > > file " Eskain Kundali " in your file section by which you can > see > > > > that I myself developed and drawn a horoscope covering all > sort > > > of > > > > astrological principles for concluding any correct prediction > > > with > > > > so many self developed > > > > softwares. > > > > > > > > Heartly thanks for your comments. > > > > Hope now you will go through my entire blog. Hope to hear soon. > > > > Yours truly, > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanat > > > > Readers may write on my email Sanatkumar_jain@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj " > > > > <nirbhar@> wrote: > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 Sanat ji; 1.Nirmal ji is moderator of this group and duty bound to answer all genuine querries. it is his commitment to us. so there is no problem on that account. 2.lalkitab author also started with your objective only when he didn't get results with astronomy based astrology he combined astronomical astrology with palmistry with vaastu with karmic theory and termed it as samudrik or oceanic knowledge. BUT HE HAD A POSITIVE OUTLOOK. there lies the difference. 3. nothing can be discussed about lalkitab principles until and unless u genunely study or atleast try to study the subject. 4. we have read many books like yours in our initial days so please excuse us from reading ur book. instead u read lalkitab. 5. about placement of planets i have already told you the concept of tewe ki darusti but you seem to be not intersted and only rest on your personal granth. if your book had been so valuable it would have already been a best seller and afforded you a noble prize for saving society. sadly that is not the case and you alone are blowing your own trumpet. TARIIF WAH HOTI HAI JO DUNIYA KARE NA KI APNE MUNH MIAN MITHU BANANE SE. 6.ABOUT FAMILY KNITTING again symbolism plays an important part and unfortunately you don't know anything about it. 7. in the end my last advise if you wanta discussion pick up LK. write down your apprehensions. we shall try to answer it. 8. we love people like you because you prompt us to research more and find new treasures of wisdom. kulbir , " sanat2221 " <sanatkumar_jain wrote: > > Astrology a science or myth > > Dear Bhardwaj Ji, > Namaskar, > Thanks for your comments. > I am starting from the last line. > >>>>>>> I beg pardon if any of my above comments be felt offensive by > you. <<<<<<<< > > Rest assured I will never felt anything offensive because I have > entered in your forum with opposite view hence I am prepared for any > wordings. But I am sorry to create problem by opposing your stand in > your forum. So I must beg pardon for all of my comments. But you are > always free to stop answering. But if we have some opposite views it > does not mean that I have any personal enmity. I hope you will agree. > Let us move further with our views. Though you have left many points > untouched from my 1st and 2nd mail, but it is always your right to > answer on some points and left others. But I will try to answer your > points. Sorry for any adverse comments. > > >>>>>>when I completed my graduation(Rishi) in astrology course in > the institute.<<<<<<< > This is the main problem which is not allowing you to review whole > situation with new angle. Though these points came to your mind > before completing the course but you have not clarified those points > during the completion of course. > > >>>>>>…….We term these astrologers as 'Postmortem > Astrologers',>>>>>>>> > Good comment. > >>>>>>> ………It means that we should keep apart what we read so far in > other system of astrology.<<<<<<<< > Yes, but if you take some thing from other branch then either you > must know about it or may be prepared to answer the questions raised. > Thus if you are leaving rashi / nachatra then why are you (You means > LK. In future too take it as LK) using Aries sign in ascendant, and > how you have worked out that Saturn / mars etc are evil planets, and > how you have worked out that so and so planet can be befooled by so > and so colour. Actually all this tradition have been borrowed from > planetary astrology. > > >>>>>>>Regarding other queries of eclipse etc,it is a chapter of > astronomy and every answer lies there. <<<<<<<< > > Why astronomy, now you are using science. Eclipse etc were part of > astrology and they are still part of astrology. Though scientist > classified it as astronomy. Let them. But you can answer it under > astrology and clarify as to why Rahu was 11/12 degrees away from the > point of eclipse and so on. Otherwise placement of Rahu and remedy by > LK would not be wrong. Because Rahu may not be there, where you are > placing and treating him. > > >>>>>>> what our ancient edicts say about it, I > cannot comment upon it as I do not know Sanskrit and I have not read > any original books because of lack of Sanskrit knowledge. <<<<<<<< > It has nothing to do as to whether you know Sanskrit or not. Because > when you are following some thing of sages it means you think that > they are correct hence you must be prepared to answer any querry or > read further because you are following something only after reading > translation so what is the harm in answering after reading some > further translation. > > >>>>>Terming any research wrong on the basis of any translated > material is not justified as far as me is concerned. <<<<<<<< > Then how terming any translated material as right may be justified. > > >>>>>>>It is for the user to accept or reject as per there > experiences. <<<<< > No, it is not the experience by which some one goes to any pathy. > Because experience here is not personal but social. But if some one > say that you are going to wrong pathy then one must rethink. In the > same way when scientist say that > >>>>>planets as dead dudes <<<<< > then why don't you rethink and come out with some solid scientific > proof. Do you believe the concept of solar system or you believe that > Earth is stationary and flat and so on…………….. > > >>>>>>We consider each and every surroundings whether living or > nonliving, stationery or movable has an effect on human behavior. > <<<<<< > Where it is written in any scripture. Scientifically, a Car standing > nearby you may have more gravitational effect then a planet. > > >>>>>It may be your own experience that these planets do not effect > any body. This debate continue to exist as long as the scientists > don't make human being in laboratory and keep the atma or soul in > their control. <<<<<<<<< > These two points (soul and planets) are totally not linked with each > other. And continue to keep watch scientific research. Are they not > creating human beings in test tube and so on again we will left our > main point > > > >>>>>>As per Lalkitab theory if one consider-Sun as his own soul & > body, the father/dada as -Brihaspati(Guru), Moon as mother or mother > like , Mercury as sister,daughter or Bhua, Mars as Brother, Shukkar > as Wife or husband, Saturn as Chacha, rahu as Sasur, Ketu as Son, he > is not doing any sin. This will not harm the society, it will rather > help to knit well the harmony in the families.>>>>>> > No, it is not going to knit well the family. If instead of thinking > Sukra as your wife and pleasing that planet, It would be much better > if you try to please your wife. Likewise you can try to please > yourself (instead of Sun), Teacher, father (instead of Brihspati) and > so on. Thus family will be well knit. And more over how a planetary > body of thousands/laks km in diameter is going to locate your curd, > milk, oil and so on and will amend himself by changing his effect so > that it may left you and grab your neighbour. > > > >>>>>>…. therefore it is a waste of time to > keep on discussing such useless data.>>>>>>>> > > It is your right to stop this interaction. > > >>>>I have seen the 'Eskain Kundli " and truly speaking I could not > understand the contents of the kundli.<<<<<< > This kundli was devised to cover all astrological principles so that > their may not be any possibility to get some escape route from any > final result But even despite this that is all sort of pathological > examination ie. Blood test, xray, scan and so on. there is not a true > result. You have to read my original book " Jyotish kitna sahi kitna > galat " for knowing in detail. Though hints have been given in the > horoscope it self. > > >>>>>> you have a research based mind and Lalkitab requires > such types of person to explore it. It is welcome step if you start > studying this system and bring your research out.>>>>>>> > I have already gone through LK. But mother of all sort of > predictive / remedial measure is planetary astrology. Other branches > have adopted some portion of planetary astrology. Yes I am ready to > research in any direction, because I am totally open minded but > there must be some logical reasoning where I could move. If you will > go through my book and find some point where I must move then I am > ready to move. > > Best Regards > Heartly thanks for your comments. > Yours truly, > > > Sanat > > > , " Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj " > <nirbhar@> wrote: > > > > Dear Sanat Ji, > > Almost all the points raised by you, came to my mind when I > completed > > my graduation(Rishi) in astrology course in the institute. You have > > rightly said that a new breed of astrologer is emerging strongly, > who > > by hook and crook justify any event by putting any of the the > several > > rules of astrology. We term these astrologers as 'Postmortem > > Astrologers', specialist of doing > > postmortem of an event. > > Let us come to your queries. I give following quotes from lalKitab > > " Rashi Chhodi Nakshatra Bhulaya " > > Means, in this system of astrology Nakshatra and rashis are > > required.This means all navansha dashaansha etc, digbal, shadbala, > > lagnesh, astmesh etc not required.Even Rahu and ketu can come in a > > single house which is not in traditional system of astrology. It > means > > that we should keep apart what we read so far in other system of > > astrology. > > > > Regarding other queries of eclipse etc,it is a chapter of astronomy > > and every answer lies there. what our ancient edicts say about it, I > > cannot comment upon it as I do not know Sanskrit and I have not read > > any original books because of lack of Sanskrit knowledge. Terming > any > > research wrong on the basis of any translated material is not > > justified as far as me is concerned. Since you have read the > original > > material you might be saying right. > > > > Regarding correcting the planet effect by remedial measures, whether > > possible or not I will not go in for this debate like never ending > > story . Ayurvedas rejcts Allopathy, allopathic discard ayurveda, > > Homoeopathy has its own rules. It is for the user to accept or > reject > > as per there experiences. Similarly in the astrological concepts it > is > > up to the students/user/astrologers to term it as right or wrong > > depending upon their experiences. You term planets as dead dudes but > > we dont.We consider each and every surroundings whether living or > > nonliving, stationery or movable has an effect on human behavior. It > > may be your own experience that these planets do not effect any > body. > > This debate continue to exist as long as the scientists don't make > > human being in laboratory and keep the atma or soul in their > control. > > So till then it is free to everybody to consider what he thinks as > right. > > As per Lalkitab theory if one consider-Sun as his own soul & body, > the > > father/dada as -Brihaspati(Guru), Moon as mother or mother like , > > Mercury as sister,daughter or Bhua, Mars as Brother, Shukkar as Wife > > or husband, Saturn as Chacha, rahu as Sasur, Ketu as Son, he is not > > doing any sin. This will not harm the society, it will rather help > to > > knit well the harmony in the families. > > You may term it as shrugging of your queries, but since we don't use > > this type of data in these studies therefore it is a waste of time > to > > keep on discussing such useless data. > > > > I have seen the 'Eskain Kundli " and truly speaking I could not > > understand the contents of the kundli. Just put the planetary > > positions in house, it is suffice. > > Dear Sanat Ji, you have a research based mind and Lalkitab requires > > such types of person to explore it. It is welcome step if you start > > studying this system and bring your research out. > > I beg pardon if any of my above comments be felt offensive by you. > > Best Regards > > Nirmal > > , " sanat2221 " > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > Astrology a science or myth > > > > > > Dear Bhardwaj Ji, > > > Namaskar, > > > Thanks for your comments and suggestion of putting the book on > net. > > > But it cannot be done because now it will be against copyright of > > > publisher and Hindi book " Jyotish Kitna Sahi Kitna galat " has > > > original research based 325 pages, which is not a small book. > > > > > > >>>>> In my opinion,Most of your querries in your letter have > simple > > > answers <<<<<<<<< > > > > > > It may be, but if you have these simple answers then I am > waiting > > > for that, and if you have these logical answers in view of the > then > > > primitive knowledge then you may also know that these > astrological > > > principles are not logical in view of modern knowledge, which is > > > quite against the primitive concept. > > > > > > >>>>>>>>You have not given your views about these > questions.<<<<<<<< > > > > > > It is not correct, I have given a hint for every question and for > > > detail analysis and procedure adopted to formulate all > astrological > > > principles you have to go through the book " Jyotish Kitna Sahi > Kitna > > > galat " . > > > > > > >>>>>>>discuss step by step in the group if you have any doubts > about > > > the astrological studies.<<<<<<< > > > > > > I have already raised many points or doubts in astrological > > > principles now it is your turn to answer, yes, you can answer > step by > > > step. > > > > > > >>>>>>Presently we are discussing the LalKitab > > > system.If you have any doubts regarding this system to > discuss<<<<<<< > > > > > > The remedies of LK is for correcting effect of planets. When I am > > > raising questions against astrology it-self then it is obvious > that > > > LK is being questioned. Life is not so easy which can be moulded > > > (because we have to mould others life for getting some thing for > our > > > life) by some curd, almond, rise, ice, oil etc. If you change the > > > course of anyone's life with socalled remedies then where is the > > > prediction which is fixed because birth horoscope and transit of > the > > > planets and their effect as worked out after applying the > > > astrological principles are fixed. And if you change some effect > (as > > > you claim) then it will generate cascading effect, which in turn > will > > > change the future of every one not alone the individual who is > > > carrying out the remedy. > > > > > > So long every one is in the grip of Saturn from both ends (black > > > hair and footwear) with Mars in between (tounge and blood) you > can > > > not cure planets. Thus you may start to suggest for shaving the > head > > > of women without footwear and spilt the tounge and try to remove > the > > > blood only then some one can be cured from the ill effect of > > > planets. IS IT POSSIBLE ??? > > > > > > We Indians are very simple with little ambitions and do not want > to > > > take pains and always try to get some shortcut by this way or > that > > > way. BUT THERE IS NO SHORTCUT OF SUCCESS IN LIFE. However, > > > individual with weak mental status may be lured to correct every > odd > > > of the life with some curd or almond. If it would have been so > > > simple then there is no need of any school, hospital and law > etc. > > > because every thing would have achieved with some remedy either > > > competition or business or illness and so on. Thus actually by > > > supporting such concept we are underestimating the labour of > sincere > > > hard working individuals. > > > > > > >>>>>>>PS. Without jumping in the Sea one cannot explore its > > > richness.<<<<<<< > > > How you can say so when I am studying astrology since last 35 > years > > > and try to conclude any one correct principle. If you have any > one > > > correct principle then Please let me know. I am also uploading > a > > > file " Eskain Kundali " in your file section by which you can see > > > that I myself developed and drawn a horoscope covering all sort > of > > > astrological principles for concluding any correct prediction > with > > > so many self developed > > > softwares. > > > > > > Heartly thanks for your comments. > > > Hope now you will go through my entire blog. Hope to hear soon. > > > Yours truly, > > > > > > > > > Sanat > > > Readers may write on my email Sanatkumar_jain@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj " > > > <nirbhar@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Sanat, > > > > your document has already been in the group file section. You > have > > > > raised some crucials issues. It would be better if you put your > > > book > > > > free of cost on net, so that your ideas reach each and every > > > person. > > > > In my opinion,Most of your querries in your letter have simple > > > > answers.You have not given your views about these > questions.Anyhow > > > we > > > > assure you that these will be taken up in future and You are > > > welcome > > > > to discuss step by step in the group if you have any doubts > about > > > the > > > > astrological studies. But Presently we are discussing the > LalKitab > > > > system.If you have any doubts regarding this system to > discuss,you > > > > are welcome. > > > > Regards > > > > Nirmal Kumar > > > > Moderator > > > > PS. Without jumping in the Sea one cannot explore its richness. > > > > > > > > , > > > > " sanat2221 " <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to > some > > > > > misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not studied > in > > > > depth > > > > > but you only have faith, because you have been informed like > > > this. > > > > So > > > > > come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as to > > > whether > > > > > astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of science > due > > > to > > > > > some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the sentiments of > > > > > astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only > want > > > to > > > > > emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let us > > > > examine > > > > > it and then there will be no question of hurting, because you > > > have > > > > > not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are > standing > > > > in > > > > > support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has been > > > > > infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology is > a > > > > > science without knowing the story of other side. I can > understand > > > > the > > > > > problem of astrologer that they will loose their business but > if > > > > you > > > > > are a client then you must have right to know the truth or > call > > > an > > > > > astrologer in the consumer forum. > > > > > > > > > > At the time of formulating the astrological principles in > early > > > > > Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being has > > > > > capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This > > > > religious > > > > > philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet (Sun, > > > Moon, > > > > > Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days > only > > > > sages > > > > > had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus after > > > > > prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill to > > > > predict > > > > > solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called > > > grabbing > > > > > the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu. > > > > > They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and its > > > > > duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer > donations > > > > etc. > > > > > to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which is > > > still > > > > > being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of > > > > everybody > > > > > is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this > situation, > > > it > > > > > was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict the > fate > > > of > > > > > deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict the > > > fate > > > > of > > > > > King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate > various > > > > > astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge of > > > sages > > > > > based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These > > > > principles > > > > > were the key factors for deciding the fate. > > > > > > > > > > Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never > > > > percolated > > > > > in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier to > learn > > > > > such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these principles > > > were > > > > > spread to other civilisation and later on developed as > Western > > > > system. > > > > > What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One > group > > > > > belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology > due to > > > > > their business considerations (these astrologers always try > to > > > fit > > > > > past event very precisely within some astrological principle > > > within > > > > a > > > > > capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and faith > > > etc., > > > > > but they are unable to predict any future event. Because > > > > astrological > > > > > principles lead to diverse predictions and that too > diabolical > > > > > opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in fluke) > may > > > > come > > > > > true then they start to harp on the same prediction and start > > > self > > > > > praising instead of applying the same socalled principle on > other > > > > > horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only > > > mislead, > > > > > create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can > find > > > > that > > > > > only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group > (say > > > > > scientist) try to raise some logical questions against > astrology. > > > > But > > > > > none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was > the > > > > level > > > > > of information of sages about the Universe, who developed > > > > > astrological principles in primitive age and what procedure > was > > > > > adopted to formulate various principles relating to Lordship, > > > > > Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect, Vinshottary > > > > > periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles then > > > > following > > > > > questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in > > > subpara). > > > > > > > > > > 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among > seven > > > > > planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ? > > > > > > > > > > It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the > stationary > > > > > Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on………. > > > > > > > > > > 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is enmity > and > > > > > friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are enemy > of > > > > each > > > > > other) ? > > > > > Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and demons > over > > > > > nector after sea-churning……….. > > > > > 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect (full, > > > > quarter > > > > > to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect on > > > seventh > > > > > house) ? > > > > > Based on the position of army in the battle field……….. > > > > > > > > > > 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are > exalted > > > and > > > > > debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. of > Aries > > > > > sign) ? > > > > > Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when duration > of > > > the > > > > > day is more in comparison to night…… > > > > > 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful and > hub > > > > of > > > > > our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha whereas > Venus > > > > (a > > > > > small planet) has 20 years ? > > > > > Based on two triangles derived after working out the effect > of > > > > > Universe on the basis of lord and exalted……. > > > > > 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various constellations > > > > between > > > > > nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ? > > > > > > > > > > Kratica was first constellation in Indian scriptures………. > > > > > > > > > > 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a > week > > > > > (Sunday, Monday etc.) ? > > > > > Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the > > > structure > > > > > of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away….. > > > > > > > > > > 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde > motion of > > > > > Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)? > > > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse….. > > > > > 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are > 180 > > > deg. > > > > > apart? > > > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse……….. > > > > > 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of eclipse ? > > > > > Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation month………. > > > > > > > > > > Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question as > to > > > > > whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one > gave > > > > > answers to these questions then he will realise that entire > > > > > astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept of > > > > > Universe. > > > > > > > > > > Everybody may agree that every research is based on the then > > > > > knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed by > sage > > > > > Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is in > the > > > > > centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed in > all > > > > > religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read > any > > > old > > > > > scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas Moon > is > > > > beyond > > > > > Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury and > Moon. > > > > > You may be surprised to know that all astrological principles > are > > > > > actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self studying > > > > astrology > > > > > since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude > correct > > > > > prediction. But if it is true at one time then same > combination > > > is > > > > > not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh logically > and > > > > > systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive > > > concept > > > > > (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling in > view > > > of > > > > > modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive > concept > > > > of > > > > > Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed. > > > > > After lot of research I wrote an original book on astrology > > > > " Jyotish - > > > > > Kitna sahi kitna galat " in Hindi (330 pages). This book > contains > > > > the > > > > > detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles on > the > > > > basis > > > > > of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our > sages > > > to > > > > > formulate these principles. This book was also published in > > > English > > > > > with the title " Astrology a science or myth " (450 pages). You > can > > > > > realize that this is revolutionary book and will change the > face > > > of > > > > > predictive astrology in due course. If you interested to know > > > more > > > > > about the book or description of various chapters then you > may > > > send > > > > > email to me. The book is being marketed in USA /UK etc. > > > > > Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do? > > > produktID=1759836 > > > > > > > > > > http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp? AUB=sanat% > > > 20kumar% > > > > > 20jain & TAG= & CID= > > > > > > > > > > http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx? > > > > > ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t > > > > > > > > > > At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, Neptune > nor > > > > they > > > > > were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to > presence > > > > of > > > > > Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed the > > > > concept > > > > > of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It was > > > mentioned > > > > in > > > > > the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came > within > > > 14 > > > > > degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon). > But > > > > nobody > > > > > will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse > when > > > > Sun, > > > > > Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree > respectively > > > > on > > > > > 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, Moon > and > > > > Ketu > > > > > were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on 03- > 03- > > > 1988 > > > > ( > > > > > Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar > > > eclipses > > > > > occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was more > then > > > > > 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at > 79.04 > > > > deg. > > > > > on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon were > at > > > > 76.49 > > > > > deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu was > > > 15.14 > > > > > deg. away). > > > > > To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you will > > > also > > > > > find in many modern astrological books that eclipse occurred > at > > > the > > > > > intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it > was > > > not > > > > > known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis of > > > > myth). > > > > > Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse, when > > > Moon > > > > > happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be there. > But > > > > As > > > > > per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11- > 1985 > > > and > > > > 3- > > > > > 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were full > > > solar > > > > > eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 degree > > > > > respectively. You will agree that when there were full solar > > > > eclipses > > > > > then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and > 166 > > > > degree > > > > > respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may > possible. > > > > > Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in > almanac. > > > > Thus > > > > > there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees > respectively. > > > > All > > > > > horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this > > > fundamental > > > > > positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you > want > > > then > > > > I > > > > > can give many more examples and very simple method of > detecting > > > > them. > > > > > I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a science > but > > > in > > > > > primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of astronomy > + > > > > > psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science, > psychology > > > > > (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive age) > > > played > > > > an > > > > > important role in handling a person by the astrologer due to > > > > immense > > > > > faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology > > > appears > > > > to > > > > > be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will also > > > agree > > > > > with the above observation after going through my original > > > > > revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre- decided > as > > > was > > > > > contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may > try to > > > > do > > > > > some thing, because every thing will take place according to > pre- > > > > > written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of modifying > that > > > > pre- > > > > > written destiny, because if we try to change only our fate, > even > > > > then > > > > > all attached happening will automatically change creating a > > > > cascading > > > > > effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of > every > > > > > person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or say > pre- > > > > > defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when > every > > > > Tom, > > > > > Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship, > good > > > deed > > > > > etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under > change. > > > > You > > > > > will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical > > > > > calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and can > > > never > > > > > and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart cannot > be > > > > > altered it means result of calculation or say prediction is > also > > > > > fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever > > > > prewritten) > > > > > by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc. > because in > > > > > that case, if you like to say, then future events will be > altered > > > > but > > > > > how a calculation of planetary transit or linked prediction > can > > > be > > > > > changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed transit > of > > > > > planets? > > > > > > > > > > Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest > assured > > > > that > > > > > actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. Only > > > > astronomy > > > > > and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were used > > > > > unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it appears > > > > correct. > > > > > Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a myth. > > > Still > > > > if > > > > > you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact The > > > James > > > > > Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000 prize > to > > > > > anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e- mail > and > > > > > website is jref@ and http://www.randi.org Because modern > > > > > technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being used > to > > > > > spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested > business > > > > > interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight this > sort > > > > of > > > > > ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in this > > > regard > > > > > and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology > > > > > (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to formulate > > > > > principles was neither logical nor based on correct > information > > > of > > > > > Universe, solar system. > > > > > > > > > > I will like to have your critical comments for further > > > interaction > > > > on > > > > > my email sanatkumar_jain@ . It would be better to know > > > > > the roots of astrology and facts, data behind it before > falling > > > in > > > > > the trap and come forward to join hands because of AIDS > > > (Astrology > > > > Is > > > > > Damaging Society). > > > > > Sanat Kumar Jain > > > > > Gwalior > > > > > > > > > > Reader may directly write to me on my email instead of > creating > > > > > problems to moderator > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 -Sanat Ji, Namaskar, DO NOT FORGET THAT THERE IS NO SHORTCUT IN LIFE. If you have so much faith then you must not advise others to take help of these LK remedies but it would be much more beneficial to you if you ask your family members (including childrens) to take help of LK remedies in their entire life instead of some hard work, dedication etc. KAASH YEH JEEVAN ITNA HI AASAAN HOTA TO SABHI AARAAM SEE RAH RAHE HOTE. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jeevan itna aasan nahi hai yeh baat bilkul sahi hai kaamyab hone ke liye mehnat (hard work ) jaroori hai, agar yeh kisi book mein lika hai ki mantar padne se ya yeh/woh upay karne se kaamyabi bagair kuchh kiye aapke kadam choomengi to book ka naam ya farmula kya hai yeh batayien. lekin agar astrology ya lk ke kuchh upay karne se aadmi dil laga ke mehnat karta hai to kya nuksan hai. lk kaamyabi ka short cut nahi batati, yeh aapko yeh batati hai aap apna chal chalan,vyohar,baddon ki izzat karen, agar fir bhi koi problem hai to apni mehnat ka fal lene ke liye kya karen, or yeh 100% sahi hai ki apko result postive hi meilega. agar kisi ne kisi ka 1 crore dena hai, woh nahi dega to police case ho gaya ya jisne lena hai woh police /court mein chala gaya to kya koyla jal pravah karne se woh bach jayega nahi, agar aap nirdosh hain, aap par jhootha ilzam hai, court ya police tang kar rahi hai , tab aap upay karen fir dekhen ki aapki baat har jagah suni ja rahi ya nahi, ya wohi aadmi apni baat sahi tarike se explain kar payega, jis se uski mushkil aasan ho jaye. bas yehi hai upay ka fayda ya astrology ka fayda. lk apko jine ka dhang (way) batati hai na ki yeh batati hai, ki bagair mehnat ke kamyab kaise hua jaye. jine ka dhang ____ veg. le, ( sun 11th hose )mein apko aur bhi bahut kuchh bataonga lk ke baare mein , pehle 11th surya walon ki life aap chek karen, woh agar non veg. le rahen to unko kya prblm hain. fir 11th surya ka upay karwa kar dekhen ki kya farak pada. vaise bhi agar aap yeh maante hain ki jyotish ek bakwas hai to aapke ya mere maanane se kya hoga . agar maanane se usko kaam karne ka shaunk lagta hai ya dil laga ke mehnat karta hai to isme samaj ko kya nuksaan hai. aap yeh batayen ki jyotish jhooth hai iss se samaj ko kya farak padega. mein koi astroler nahi, na hi yeh kaam karta hoon. lk ke anusar man changa to kathoti mein Ganga. bas lk ke anusar apna life style bana ke dekhiye, fir change dekhiye. JAGMOHAN -- In , " sanat2221 " <sanatkumar_jain wrote: > > Dear JAGMOHAN Ji, > Thanks for your reply, > If you are bent upon to link any two irrelevant point that doing some > irrelevant action, it will warn the planets who are millions Km > away then what I can say. Moreover I am not doing any `Behas " , I am > just asking as to why so and so principle was formulated or in your > language how so and so remedy was devised. > >>>>>>>>. Jis jatak ka rahu 8th house mein ho aur sun 4th house > mein ho app usko sikka (led) jal prvah karva kar dekhe kya result > milta hai iss tarah ke 50 jatak talash karen or study karen.<<<<<<<<<< > > If you are interested then you can do your experiment and collect > the data. Persons (one in 12 or say 8%) having such combination were > borne during > 15-6-1957 to 15-7-1957 > 15-6-58 to 15-7-58 > 15-5-59 to 15-6-59 > 15-4-60 to 15-5-60 (like wise you may continue and can find out many > persons by collecting data from the forum) If you want I can give > you many more dates. > > >>>>>> chahta aap LK ke result dekhiye.<<<<<<<<< > DO NOT FORGET THAT THERE IS NO SHORTCUT IN LIFE. If you have so much > faith then you must not advise others to take help of these LK > remedies but it would be much more beneficial to you if you ask your > family members (including childrens) to take help of LK remedies in > their entire life instead of some hard work, dedication etc. KAASH > YEH JEEVAN ITNA HI AASAAN HOTA TO SABHI AARAAM SEE RAH RAHE HOTE. > > OK , Thanks > > Yours truly, > sanat > > > > , " mts3434 " <mts3434@> wrote: > > > > DEAR SANAT JEE, > > mein aapko LK ke baare mein kuchh bata raha hoon kripya iss par > kuchh > > reaschr karen. Jis jatak ka rahu 8th house mein ho aur sun 4th > house > > mein ho app usko sikka (led) jal prvah karva kar dekhe kya result > > milta hai iss tarah ke 50 jatak talash karen or study karen. Iss > > tarah kee kuchh or bhee baaten apko milengi ya mein bata doonga or > > study karen LK par aapka swagat hai.jyotish sahi ya galat iss behas > > mein nahi padna chahta aap LK ke result dekhiye. > > JAGMOHAN > > , " kulbirbains " > > <kulbirbainz@> wrote: > > > > > > sanat ji, on one hand u claim to have done research on indian > > > astrology for 35 years and yet you call tounge as a coming under > > > mars, feet and head under saturn. how do u expect us to enter a > > > debate when u don't have even primary knowledge about indian > > > astrology. > > > please get some knowledge of lalkitab and then we can discuss.the > > > moderator is not going to be disturbed by any objections. please > > > don't have any such apprehensions. i assure he will be more than > > > happy if this group leads someone to clarity. i think pradeep ji > is > > > correct that u studied only the yavan system and not indian > > > astrology and philosphy. u should do some more research on energy > > > fields/emitions. meaning of upaya, importance of symbology etc. > > also > > > read something about sanchit, arjit and prarabadh., shakki and > > pakka > > > grahas in lalkitab. > > > kulbir > > > , " sanat2221 " > > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Astrology a science or myth > > > > > > > > Dear Bhardwaj Ji, > > > > Namaskar, > > > > Thanks for your comments and suggestion of putting the book on > > > net. > > > > But it cannot be done because now it will be against copyright > of > > > > publisher and Hindi book " Jyotish Kitna Sahi Kitna galat " has > > > > original research based 325 pages, which is not a small book. > > > > > > > > >>>>> In my opinion,Most of your querries in your letter have > > > simple > > > > answers <<<<<<<<< > > > > > > > > It may be, but if you have these simple answers then I am > > waiting > > > > for that, and if you have these logical answers in view of the > > > then > > > > primitive knowledge then you may also know that these > > astrological > > > > principles are not logical in view of modern knowledge, which > is > > > > quite against the primitive concept. > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>You have not given your views about these > > > questions.<<<<<<<< > > > > > > > > It is not correct, I have given a hint for every question and > for > > > > detail analysis and procedure adopted to formulate all > > > astrological > > > > principles you have to go through the book " Jyotish Kitna Sahi > > > Kitna > > > > galat " . > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>discuss step by step in the group if you have any doubts > > > about > > > > the astrological studies.<<<<<<< > > > > > > > > I have already raised many points or doubts in astrological > > > > principles now it is your turn to answer, yes, you can answer > > step > > > by > > > > step. > > > > > > > > >>>>>>Presently we are discussing the LalKitab > > > > system.If you have any doubts regarding this system to > > > discuss<<<<<<< > > > > > > > > The remedies of LK is for correcting effect of planets. When I > am > > > > raising questions against astrology it-self then it is obvious > > > that > > > > LK is being questioned. Life is not so easy which can be > moulded > > > > (because we have to mould others life for getting some thing > for > > > our > > > > life) by some curd, almond, rise, ice, oil etc. If you change > the > > > > course of anyone's life with socalled remedies then where is > the > > > > prediction which is fixed because birth horoscope and transit > of > > > the > > > > planets and their effect as worked out after applying the > > > > astrological principles are fixed. And if you change some > effect > > > (as > > > > you claim) then it will generate cascading effect, which in > turn > > > will > > > > change the future of every one not alone the individual who is > > > > carrying out the remedy. > > > > > > > > So long every one is in the grip of Saturn from both ends > (black > > > > hair and footwear) with Mars in between (tounge and blood) you > > > can > > > > not cure planets. Thus you may start to suggest for shaving the > > > head > > > > of women without footwear and spilt the tounge and try to > remove > > > the > > > > blood only then some one can be cured from the ill effect of > > > > planets. IS IT POSSIBLE ??? > > > > > > > > We Indians are very simple with little ambitions and do not > want > > > to > > > > take pains and always try to get some shortcut by this way or > > that > > > > way. BUT THERE IS NO SHORTCUT OF SUCCESS IN LIFE. However, > > > > individual with weak mental status may be lured to correct > every > > > odd > > > > of the life with some curd or almond. If it would have been so > > > > simple then there is no need of any school, hospital and law > > etc. > > > > because every thing would have achieved with some remedy either > > > > competition or business or illness and so on. Thus actually by > > > > supporting such concept we are underestimating the labour of > > > sincere > > > > hard working individuals. > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>PS. Without jumping in the Sea one cannot explore its > > > > richness.<<<<<<< > > > > How you can say so when I am studying astrology since last 35 > > > years > > > > and try to conclude any one correct principle. If you have any > > one > > > > correct principle then Please let me know. I am also > uploading > > > a > > > > file " Eskain Kundali " in your file section by which you can > see > > > > that I myself developed and drawn a horoscope covering all > sort > > > of > > > > astrological principles for concluding any correct prediction > > > with > > > > so many self developed > > > > softwares. > > > > > > > > Heartly thanks for your comments. > > > > Hope now you will go through my entire blog. Hope to hear soon. > > > > Yours truly, > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanat > > > > Readers may write on my email Sanatkumar_jain@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj " > > > > <nirbhar@> wrote: > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Dear Bhardwaj Ji, Namaskar, Thanks for your comments. >>>> I FOUND ALL THE ANSWERS. STILL I WAS NOT SATISFIED WITH THE TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGICAL SYSTEMS. BY THE GRACE OF GOD SOME GOOD FRIENDS HAS INTRODUCED ME TO THIS NEW SYSTEM OF ASTROLOGY A FEW YEARS BACK. I AM HAPPY THAT I HAVE BEEN TO THIS SYSTEM. <<<<<< If you find socalled all the answers then why are you not satisfied. It means you have not found any logical answers. Thanks for your admission. Again LK is not a system of astrology (predictive) hence it is neither astronomy nor predictive astrology. It is based on horoscope prepared under astrology (which in turn is based on astronomy) with change of sign without any logical answer either astrologically or astronomically or logically or scientifically. As you are happy in this system hence you must answer these basic questions. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Yes, but if you take some thing from other branch then either you must know about it or may be prepared to answer the questions raised. Thus if you are leaving rashi / nachatra then why are you (You means LK. In future too take it as LK) using Aries sign in ascendant, and how you have worked out that Saturn / mars etc are evil planets, and how you have worked out that so and so planet can be befooled by so and so colour. Actually all this tradition have been borrowed from planetary astrology. FOR LEARNING ANY SYSTEM YOU MUST FIRST BECOME A PART OF THAT SYSTEM LEAVING A PART THE PRESET MIND. I AM NOT TERMING ANY SYSTEM WRONG. IT IS ONES OWN LEVEL OF SATISFACTION. YOU ARE ACTUALY NOT BEEN FAMILIAR TO LALKITAB SYSTEM. EVERY PLANET IN THIS SYSTEM CAN BE EVIL OR GOOD. I DONT FIND IT IS WRITTEN IN ANY BOOK THAT A PLANET CAN BE BEFOOLED.BY THE WAY WHEN YOU DONT TREAT PLANET LIVE THEN YOUR QUESTION OF FOOLING THE PLANET SHOULD NOT ARISE. DISCUSSION CAN ONLY BE TAKEN ON THE SAME PRINCIPLE OR SUBJECT. YOUR PRINCIPLES ARE DIFFERENT THAN OURS. IT IS BETTER FOR US TO KEEP ON INDIVIDUAL STUDIES. <<<<<<<<<<<<< I am always prepared to be a part of system but at least either it must be scientific or logical or may be totally independent means it may not have borrowed some thing from other branch which is already in question (and you have also admitted that you are not satisfied with planetary astrology.). Yes it is not written that a planet can be befooled but by applying some remedial totke are you not trying to liquidate the socalled evil effect of a planet, whereas planet (except sun which is star not a planet) do not have any rays or any cosmic effect then what are you curing. IF FOR sake of discussion we may agree that planet have some rays which you (LK) is curing even then at the most you can cure some bodily (physical) problem but how you can change his future which would be net result of his action, ability beside the action and ability of so many others who are free to do any thing. >>>>>>>>>. But you can answer it under astrology and clarify as to why Rahu was 11/12 degrees away from the point of eclipse and so on. Otherwise placement of Rahu and remedy by LK would not be wrong. Because Rahu may not be there, where you are placing and treating him. DEGREES DOES NOT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE IN LALKITAB. WE DONT USE DEGREES MINUTELY HERE. ONLY USE OF ASTRONOMY IN LALKITAB IS THE ASCENDENT, THAT IS TOO TO FIX THE PLANETARY POSITION. STILL IT IS OPEN FOR ASTROLOGER TO CORRRECT THE POSITION OF PLANETS AS PER SYMPTOMS EXISTS IN THE NATIVE LIFE. THIS IS SCIENCE OF LK. <<<<<<<<<< NO, if as per astrology Rahu is say 5 degree of Taurus (with ascendant Aries so that you may not again change ascendant) then in LK it would be planced in 2nd house. If there is error of 12 deg. as I have pointed out then astrologically it would be in Aries sign. But how you are going to shift it to Aries when astrogers are not changing it to Aries. Thus you are curing as if Rahu is in 2nd house irrespective of degrees. Secondly do not use word science because then you may have some scientific or logical answers. >>>>>>> It has nothing to do as to whether you know Sanskrit or not. Because when you are following some thing of sages it means you think that they are correct hence you must be prepared to answer any querry or read further because you are following something only after reading translation so what is the harm in answering after reading some further translation. IT IS ONE'S OWN IDEOLOGY. I AM IN THE OPINION THAT THE EPICS/BOOKS SHALL BE READ IN THE LANGUAGE IN WHICH IT IS WRITTEN BY AUTHOR. TRANSLATERS PUT THEIR OWN MIND IN THE TRANSLATION HENCE MAKES THE USEFUL AS WASTE SOMETIMES. I KNOW THE LANGUAGE IN WHICH THE LALKITAB IS WRITTEN HENCE I FIND THIS SYSTEM MORE FAMILIAR AND USEFUL.THIS STUDY IS SIMPLE AND DOES NOT REQUIRE THAT HUGE MATHEMETICAL CALCULATIONS. <<<<<<<<<<< Again it is not correct. Are we not studied many scientific principles in translated Hindi or English even if original verse may be in Greek, Polish or Spanish languages. So your stand do not have any substance except that LK system is a parasite which take half planetary astrology and mixed with some totke that too without any scientific or logical answer as to how pouring of oil and so on is going to change the fate of an individual who is surrounded by many persons. You have liked it because in this you have nothing to do except some totkebaaji. SORRY >>>>>Terming any research wrong on the basis of any translated material is not justified as far as me is concerned. <<<<<<<< Then how terming any translated material as right may be justified. TRY TO READ THE ORIGINAL AVAILABLE MATERIAL. IF ONE IS SO ANXIOUS HE CAN LEARN THAT LANGUAGE. 'WHY TO SEE FROM OTHERS EYES, WHEN ONE HAS HIS OWN EYES INTACT'.<<<<<<< Agree, It means to whom you are advising some totke must read LK themselves and do not rely upon on your advise. Because they have both eyes. If it is so then you must advise your clients to read original (not translated) LK himself. I hope now you will do like this. >>>>>>>It is for the user to accept or reject as per there experiences. <<<<< No, it is not the experience by which some one goes to any pathy. Because experience here is not personal but social. But if some one say that you are going to wrong pathy then one must rethink. In the same way when scientist say that YOU MUST JUDGE THE CALLIBRE OF THE PERSON WHO SAY THAT 'YOU ARE WRONG'. SCIENTIST HAD BEEN SAYING FOR THE LAST 50 YEARS THAT BCG INJECTION IS GOOD TO SAY GOODBYE TO TB. NOW WHAT HAPPENS THEY SAY 'IT IS USELESS'. IT IS THEIR EXPERIENCE WHICH CHANGES THEIR VERSION. IN MY VIEWS 'ONES OWN EXPERIENCE RULES OVER AND ABOVE WHAT PEOPLE SAY'. Scientists are right when they say that some inj. Is not good now because bacterial has changed his structure. But LK has some reasons behind evil effect of a planet and reasons for remedy except psychological effect on an individual who are so simple minded that any Baba can befool him (you may have gone through many news of befooling the simple minded people.) So if you like to misguide (if you do not like the word befooling) simple minded persons then what I can say. >>>>> Do you believe the concept of solar system or you believe that Earth is stationary and flat and so on…………….. CAN YOU DEFINE WORD 'SCIENCE'. I BELIEVE EARTH IS FLAT AND STATIONARY AS FAR AS I AM ON EARTH. WHEN I GO TO SPACE THEN I WILL SAY EARTH IS MOVING AND ROUND. IT IS LAW OF RELATIVITY. ASTROLOGY IS BASED UPON SOLAR SYSTEM. EVERY HUMAN BEING IS AFFECTED BY THESE PLANETS. YOU KNOW THERE IS NO PLANET NAMELY RAHU & KETU IN SOLAR SYSTEM. EVEN THEN YOU ARE DISUCSSING RAHU & KETU. BECAUSE THESE POSITIONS OF MOON ORBIT AFFECT THE PLANETARY ENERGY. <<<<<<<<<<< Science is a systematic study of anything with some logical answers. You can not say both ways that Earth is flat as well as spherical and stationary as well as moving. Our sages were scientist so long they were studying and defining some principle on the basis of flat and stationary Earth with the concept that Sun is near and Moon is far away (for detail you may read my book). But when it is proved wrong though after thousands of year then there is no question of following the principles based on some old science. Where it is written that astrology is based on solar system (which concept is only 400 years old). How every human being may be effected by planets when they do not have any cosmic effect (except Sun). In primitive time they were considered as living deities hence it was presumed that they may have effect. Can you explain which type of effect these planet do have, which was refereed by our sages. Even they were not awared with the Graviatational and magnetic concept of planets. Yes I know that there is no planet like Rahu Ketu. And I am discussing it because you are curing them in LK. Where it was written by any sages that Moon orbit effect the planetary energy (thorough RKetu). They were even not awared that orbits (sun and moon) intersects each other. >>>>>>We consider each and every surroundings whether living or nonliving, stationery or movable has an effect on human behavior. <<<<<< Where it is written in any scripture. Scientifically, a Car standing nearby you may have more gravitational effect then a planet. WHY ONE WEAR CLOTHES OF DIFFERENT DESIGN. WHY ONE WANT THAT HIS CAR BE SO SHINY. WHY ONE WANT THAT HIS HOUSE BE LOOKED SO CLEAN AND BETTER. THESE ALL ARE NON LIVING. BECAUSE IT AFFECTS OUR MIND. STILL YOU SAY THAT THESE DOES NOT AFFECT HUMAN BEING. CAN YOU LIVE WITH DEAD. EVEN THE SCRIPTURE ARE AFFECTING YOU SO MUCH AND MAKE YOU RESTLESS EVEN THESE ARE NON LIVING. WHY WANT SUN ENERGY IF PLANET IS DEAD. IT IS ONES OWN WAY OF TERMING THE LIFE. YOUR WAY IS DIFFERENT FROM OURS. ENJOY YOUR LIFE AND LET US ENJOY OURS. So you are washing the planets moving at a distance of crore of KM with spoonful of oil etc. You are not admitting in clear words that planetary phobia is effecting the mind because such phobia has been created in the minds of general public. Hence it affects mind and now you are curing his psychological phobia by some LK totke instead of teaching him that there is neither effect nor cure nor LK is going to change his future. IN other words you are infusing a phobia and then curing it . >>>>>These two points (soul and planets) are totally not linked with each other. And continue to keep watch scientific research. Are they not creating human beings in test tube and so on again we will left our main point I FEEL YOU HAVE NO SCIETIFIC(YOUR TERM) ANSWER TO THIS. THEY ARE CREATING TEST TUBES WITH HUMAN EMBRIYO. LET THEM MAKE DEAD ALIVE OT MAKE HUMAN BEING NEVER DIE.TILL THEN WE HAVE TO BELIEVE WHAT WE THINK. YOU MAY DELINK SOUL AND PLANETS, BUT THESE ARE UNIVERSALLY LINKED. <<<<<<< Whether scientist are able or not in doing some thing, it is not going to make a difference on astrological principles and LK. So linking of these two things is not logical and it is only a tactics to divert the main point. >>>>>> No, it is not going to knit well the family. If instead of thinking Sukra as your wife and pleasing that planet, It would be much better if you try to please your wife. Likewise you can try to please yourself (instead of Sun), Teacher, father (instead of Brihspati) and so on. Thus family will be well knit. And more over how a planetary body of thousands/laks km in diameter is going to locate your curd, milk, oil and so on and will amend himself by changing his effect so that it may left you and grab your neighbour. IT IS ONE OWN WAY OF EXPERIENCING. HAVE YOU EVER READ PANCHTANTRA STORIES. THEY AFFECT MORE THAN A TEACHERS LECTURE. I DONT FIND IN THE BOOKS THAT YOU CAN GRAB YOUR NEIGHBOUR BY CURD OR ANY METHOD. STUDY THE BOOK, USE THE SYSTEM, EXPERIENCE IT THEN GIVE YOUR FINDINGS. THIS IS A BETTER WAY OF CRITICIZING. ONLY QUESTION IS EXPLOITATION OF INNOCENT BY LUSTY PEOPLE. IF YOU STUDY A SYSTEM THEN AND ONLY THEN YOU CAN MAKE PEOPLE AWARE THAT HOW THEY ARE BEING EXPLOITED BY UNSCRUPLOUS PERSONS. <<<<<<<<<< Panchatantra stories were created to teach innocent public moreover it has nothing to do with astrology and LK. I am not saying that you are going to grab your neighbour with curd etc.But I mean to say that by such totke you are thinking to liquidate the socalled evil effect of planet and planet may grab those neighbour who is not doing such totke. >>>>II DONT REQUIRE YOU BOOK NOW. PRESENTLY I AM STUDYING MORE IMPORTANT SYSTEM. REGARDING YOUR KUNDLI ,IN MY OPINION, IN FACT WHAT I FEEL IS THAT AFTER 35 YEARS OF YOUR STUDY, YOU HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO DECODE YOUR KUNDLI. I INVITE YOU TO STUDY THIS SYSTEM FOR 3 YEARS SO, YOU WILL FIND ALL THE ANSWERS. <<<<<<<< How I can decode (not like many astrologers) when principles of astrology are not formulated on correct concept and all of them are based on primitive concept. If you have answers then why don't you come forward. If you will answer then definitely I will spent 3 years. >>>>>> NO YOU HAVE NOT GONE THROUGH THIS BOOK. YOU MAY HAVE GONE TRANSLATED MATERIALS WHICH DEPICTS MORE WRONG THAN RIGHT.THESE TRANSLATED MATERIALS ARE INCOMPLETE, WRONG AND ARE WRONGLY TRANSLATED. WE HAVE TO PUT SOME OF THE BEST TRANSLATED MATERIAL FREE OF CHARGE ON NET. THIS MATERIAL STILL NOT FULLY CORRECT BUT IS MORE THAN 70% NEAR TO CORRECT. YOU CAN REFER TO THAT MATERIAL FOR FLAVOUR. YOU MAY FIND IT UNIQUE. AS YOU READ THE BOOK YOU WILL FIND THE LOGIC. WRITER HAS NOT HIDE NAY THING WHICH CAME TO HIS MIND. THESE ARE VERY INTERESTING AND GOOD BOOKS TO STUDY PREFERABLY IF YOU KNOW URDU YOU READ ORIGINALS.THESE ARE PUT ONLINE INTO THE WEB FOR READING. WE ALSO PROVIDE FREE CD OF THESE BOOKS.<<<<<<<<< If all translated books are wrong then you may atleast say so with pointing out as to where they are wrong and what is correctly written by the writer in 1952 edition. >>>>>>> Presently It will not be possible for me to discuss this matter any further. we may discuss it on some other time when discussion on LK system ends.<<<<<<<< It is always your right to discontinue any discussion. But it is not my right. I am always prepared to read any thing and prepared to change my scientific concept otherwise after studying and preparing so many softwares of astrology, I would not have changed my way that astrololgy is bogus. Thanks for your discussion Best regards Sanat 0751-2626868 sanatkumar_jain (Readers may write to me on my email sanatkumar_jain) , " Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj " <nirbhar wrote: > > Astrology a science or myth > > Dear Sanat Ji, > I will try to give the answer point wise. My answers are in Caps > > Let us move further with our views. Though you have left many points > untouched from my 1st and 2nd mail, but it is always your right to > answer on some points and left others. But I will try to answer your > points. Sorry for any adverse comments. > > AS I ALREADY SAID THAT THIS GROUP IS PRESENTLY DISCUSSING LALKITAB, > IT IS NOT REQUIRED TO GIVE ANSWERS BECAUSE THESE ARE NOT USEFUL IN > THE STUDY OF LALKITAB. I DONT FIND ANY ADVERSITY ON YOUR COMMENTS. > > >>>>>>when I completed my graduation(Rishi) in astrology course in > the institute.<<<<<<< > This is the main problem which is not allowing you to review whole > situation with new angle. Though these points came to your mind > before completing the course but you have not clarified those points > during the completion of course. > DEAR SANAT JI, I STUDIED AND STUDY EVERY SUBJECT UNORTHODOX WAY. IT > IS MY WAY OF TAKING A SUBJECT.YOURS SEEMS TO THE SAME, MAY BE LITTLE > BIT DIFFERENT. I STUDIED THE TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGY AS WELL AS > ASTRONOMY.I FOUND ALL THE ANSWERS. STILL I WAS NOT SATISFIED WITH THE > TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGICAL SYSTEMS. BY THE GRACE OF GOD SOME GOOD > FRIENDS HAS INTRODUCED ME TO THIS NEW SYSTEM OF ASTROLOGY A FEW YEARS > BACK. I AM HAPPY THAT I HAVE BEEN TO THIS SYSTEM. > >>>>>>…….We term these astrologers as 'Postmortem > Astrologers',>>>>>>>> > Good comment. > >>>>>>> ………It means that we should keep apart what we read so far in > other system of astrology.<<<<<<<< > Yes, but if you take some thing from other branch then either you > must know about it or may be prepared to answer the questions raised. > Thus if you are leaving rashi / nachatra then why are you (You means > LK. In future too take it as LK) using Aries sign in ascendant, and > how you have worked out that Saturn / mars etc are evil planets, and > how you have worked out that so and so planet can be befooled by so > and so colour. Actually all this tradition have been borrowed from > planetary astrology. > > FOR LEARNING ANY SYSTEM YOU MUST FIRST BECOME A PART OF THAT SYSTEM > LEAVING A PART THE PRESET MIND. I AM NOT TERMING ANY SYSTEM WRONG. IT > IS ONES OWN LEVEL OF SATISFACTION. YOU ARE ACTUALY NOT BEEN FAMILIAR > TO LALKITAB SYSTEM. EVERY PLANET IN THIS SYSTEM CAN BE EVIL OR GOOD. > I DONT FIND IT IS WRITTEN IN ANY BOOK THAT A PLANET CAN BE > BEFOOLED.BY THE WAY WHEN YOU DONT TREAT PLANET LIVE THEN YOUR > QUESTION OF FOOLING THE PLANET SHOULD NOT ARISE. DISCUSSION CAN ONLY > BE TAKEN ON THE SAME PRINCIPLE OR SUBJECT. YOUR PRINCIPLES ARE > DIFFERENT THAN OURS. IT IS BETTER FOR US TO KEEP ON INDIVIDUAL > STUDIES. > > >>>>>>>Regarding other queries of eclipse etc,it is a chapter of > astronomy and every answer lies there. <<<<<<<< > > Why astronomy, now you are using science. Eclipse etc were part of > astrology and they are still part of astrology. Though scientist > classified it as astronomy. Let them. But you can answer it under > astrology and clarify as to why Rahu was 11/12 degrees away from the > point of eclipse and so on. Otherwise placement of Rahu and remedy by > LK would not be wrong. Because Rahu may not be there, where you are > placing and treating him. > > DEGREES DOES NOT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE IN LALKITAB. WE DONT USE DEGREES > MINUTELY HERE. ONLY USE OF ASTRONOMY IN LALKITAB IS THE ASCENDENT, > THAT IS TOO TO FIX THE PLANETARY POSITION. STILL IT IS OPEN FOR > ASTROLOGER TO CORRRECT THE POSITION OF PLANETS AS PER SYMPTOMS EXISTS > IN THE NATIVE LIFE. > THIS IS SCIENCE OF LK. > > >>>>>>> what our ancient edicts say about it, I > cannot comment upon it as I do not know Sanskrit and I have not read > any original books because of lack of Sanskrit knowledge. <<<<<<<< > It has nothing to do as to whether you know Sanskrit or not. Because > when you are following some thing of sages it means you think that > they are correct hence you must be prepared to answer any querry or > read further because you are following something only after reading > translation so what is the harm in answering after reading some > further translation. > IT IS ONE'S OWN IDEOLOGY. I AM IN THE OPINION THAT THE EPICS/BOOKS > SHALL BE READ IN THE LANGUAGE IN WHICH IT IS WRITTEN BY AUTHOR. > TRANSLATERS PUT THEIR OWN MIND IN THE TRANSLATION HENCE MAKES THE > USEFUL AS WASTE SOMETIMES. I KNOW THE LANGUAGE IN WHICH THE LALKITAB > IS WRITTEN HENCE I FIND THIS SYSTEM MORE FAMILIAR AND USEFUL.THIS > STUDY IS SIMPLE AND DOES NOT REQUIRE THAT HUGE MATHEMETICAL > CALCULATIONS. > >>>>>Terming any research wrong on the basis of any translated > material is not justified as far as me is concerned. <<<<<<<< > Then how terming any translated material as right may be justified. > TRY TO READ THE ORIGINAL AVAILABLE MATERIAL. IF ONE IS SO ANXIOUS HE > CAN LEARN THAT LANGUAGE. > 'WHY TO SEE FROM OTHERS EYES, WHEN ONE HAS HIS OWN EYES INTACT'. > > >>>>>>>It is for the user to accept or reject as per there > experiences. <<<<< > No, it is not the experience by which some one goes to any pathy. > Because experience here is not personal but social. But if some one > say that you are going to wrong pathy then one must rethink. In the > same way when scientist say that > YOU MUST JUDGE THE CALLIBRE OF THE PERSON WHO SAY THAT 'YOU ARE > WRONG'. SCIENTIST HAD BEEN SAYING FOR THE LAST 50 YEARS THAT BCG > INJECTION IS GOOD TO SAY GOODBYE TO TB. NOW WHAT HAPPENS THEY SAY 'IT > IS USELESS'. IT IS THEIR EXPERIENCE WHICH CHANGES THEIR VERSION. > IN MY VIEWS 'ONES OWN EXPERIENCE RULES OVER AND ABOVE WHAT PEOPLE > SAY'. > > >>>>>planets as dead dudes <<<<< > then why don't you rethink and come out with some solid scientific > proof. Do you believe the concept of solar system or you believe that > Earth is stationary and flat and so on…………….. > CAN YOU DEFINE WORD 'SCIENCE'. > I BELIEVE EARTH IS FLAT AND STATIONARY AS FAR AS I AM ON EARTH. WHEN > I GO TO SPACE THEN I WILL SAY EARTH IS MOVING AND ROUND. IT IS LAW OF > RELATIVITY. > ASTROLOGY IS BASED UPON SOLAR SYSTEM. EVERY HUMAN BEING IS AFFECTED > BY THESE PLANETS. > YOU KNOW THERE IS NO PLANET NAMELY RAHU & KETU IN SOLAR SYSTEM. EVEN > THEN YOU ARE DISUCSSING RAHU & KETU. BECAUSE THESE POSITIONS OF MOON > ORBIT AFFECT THE PLANETARY ENERGY. > >>>>>>We consider each and every surroundings whether living or > nonliving, stationery or movable has an effect on human behavior. > <<<<<< > > Where it is written in any scripture. Scientifically, a Car standing > nearby you may have more gravitational effect then a planet. > WHY ONE WEAR CLOTHES OF DIFFERENT DESIGN. WHY ONE WANT THAT HIS CAR > BE SO SHINY. WHY ONE WANT THAT HIS HOUSE BE LOOKED SO CLEAN AND > BETTER. THESE ALL ARE NON LIVING. > BECAUSE IT AFFECTS OUR MIND. STILL YOU SAY THAT THESE DOES NOT AFFECT > HUMAN BEING. CAN YOU LIVE WITH DEAD. EVEN THE SCRIPTURE ARE AFFECTING > YOU SO MUCH AND MAKE YOU RESTLESS EVEN THESE ARE NON LIVING. > WHY WANT SUN ENERGY IF PLANET IS DEAD. > IT IS ONES OWN WAY OF TERMING THE LIFE. YOUR WAY IS DIFFERENT FROM > OURS. ENJOY YOUR LIFE AND LET US ENJOY OURS. > >>>>>It may be your own experience that these planets do not effect > any body. This debate continue to exist as long as the scientists > don't make human being in laboratory and keep the atma or soul in > their control. <<<<<<<<< > These two points (soul and planets) are totally not linked with each > other. And continue to keep watch scientific research. Are they not > creating human beings in test tube and so on again we will left our > main point > I FEEL YOU HAVE NO SCIETIFIC(YOUR TERM) ANSWER TO THIS. THEY ARE > CREATING TEST TUBES WITH HUMAN EMBRIYO. LET THEM MAKE DEAD ALIVE OT > MAKE HUMAN BEING NEVER DIE.TILL THEN WE HAVE TO BELIEVE WHAT WE > THINK. YOU MAY DELINK SOUL AND PLANETS, BUT THESE ARE UNIVERSALLY > LINKED. > > >>>>>>As per Lalkitab theory if one consider-Sun as his own soul & > body, the father/dada as -Brihaspati(Guru), Moon as mother or mother > like , Mercury as sister,daughter or Bhua, Mars as Brother, Shukkar > as Wife or husband, Saturn as Chacha, rahu as Sasur, Ketu as Son, he > is not doing any sin. This will not harm the society, it will rather > help to knit well the harmony in the families.>>>>>> > No, it is not going to knit well the family. If instead of thinking > Sukra as your wife and pleasing that planet, It would be much better > if you try to please your wife. Likewise you can try to please > yourself (instead of Sun), Teacher, father (instead of Brihspati) and > so on. Thus family will be well knit. And more over how a planetary > body of thousands/laks km in diameter is going to locate your curd, > milk, oil and so on and will amend himself by changing his effect so > that it may left you and grab your neighbour. > IT IS ONE OWN WAY OF EXPERIENCING. HAVE YOU EVER READ PANCHTANTRA > STORIES. THEY AFFECT MORE THAN A TEACHERS LECTURE. I DONT FIND IN THE > BOOKS THAT YOU CAN GRAB YOUR NEIGHBOUR BY CURD OR ANY METHOD. > STUDY THE BOOK, USE THE SYSTEM, EXPERIENCE IT THEN GIVE YOUR > FINDINGS. THIS IS A BETTER WAY OF CRITICIZING. > ONLY QUESTION IS EXPLOITATION OF INNOCENT BY LUSTY PEOPLE. IF YOU > STUDY A SYSTEM THEN AND ONLY THEN YOU CAN MAKE PEOPLE AWARE THAT HOW > THEY ARE BEING EXPLOITED BY UNSCRUPLOUS PERSONS. > > >>>>>>…. therefore it is a waste of time to > keep on discussing such useless data.>>>>>>>> > > It is your right to stop this interaction. > YES, YOU ARE RIGHT. > >>>>I have seen the 'Eskain Kundli " and truly speaking I could not > understand the contents of the kundli.<<<<<< > This kundli was devised to cover all astrological principles so that > their may not be any possibility to get some escape route from any > final result But even despite this that is all sort of pathological > examination ie. Blood test, xray, scan and so on. there is not a true > result. You have to read my original book " Jyotish kitna sahi kitna > galat " for knowing in detail. Though hints have been given in the > horoscope it self. > I DONT REQUIRE YOU BOOK NOW. PRESENTLY I AM STUDYING MORE IMPORTANT > SYSTEM. > REGARDING YOUR KUNDLI ,IN MY OPINION, IN FACT WHAT I FEEL IS THAT > AFTER 35 YEARS OF YOUR STUDY, YOU HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO DECODE YOUR > KUNDLI. I INVITE YOU TO STUDY THIS SYSTEM FOR 3 YEARS SO, YOU WILL > FIND ALL THE ANSWERS. > >>>>>> you have a research based mind and Lalkitab requires > such types of person to explore it. It is welcome step if you start > studying this system and bring your research out.>>>>>>> > I have already gone through LK. But mother of all sort of > predictive / remedial measure is planetary astrology. Other branches > have adopted some portion of planetary astrology. Yes I am ready to > research in any direction, because I am totally open minded but > there must be some logical reasoning where I could move. If you will > go through my book and find some point where I must move then I am > ready to move. > NO YOU HAVE NOT GONE THROUGH THIS BOOK. YOU MAY HAVE GONE TRANSLATED > MATERIALS WHICH DEPICTS MORE WRONG THAN RIGHT.THESE TRANSLATED > MATERIALS ARE INCOMPLETE, WRONG AND ARE WRONGLY TRANSLATED. WE HAVE > TO PUT SOME OF THE BEST TRANSLATED MATERIAL FREE OF CHARGE ON NET. > THIS MATERIAL STILL NOT FULLY CORRECT BUT IS MORE THAN 70% NEAR TO > CORRECT. YOU CAN REFER TO THAT MATERIAL FOR FLAVOUR. YOU MAY FIND IT > UNIQUE. AS YOU READ THE BOOK YOU WILL FIND THE LOGIC. WRITER HAS NOT > HIDE NAY THING WHICH CAME TO HIS MIND. THESE ARE VERY INTERESTING AND > GOOD BOOKS TO STUDY PREFERABLY IF YOU KNOW URDU YOU READ > ORIGINALS.THESE ARE PUT ONLINE INTO THE WEB FOR READING. WE ALSO > PROVIDE FREE CD OF THESE BOOKS. > Dear Sanat Ji, Presently It will not be possible for me to discuss > this matter any further. we may discuss it on some other time when > discussion on LK system ends. > I consider you an intelligent and unorthodox student of astrology. I > wish you read this system and write books of your findings. > Best regards > Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2008 Report Share Posted January 26, 2008 Dear JAGMOHAN Ji, Thanks for your reply, My view is as follows on your comments. >>>> lekin agar astrology ya lk ke kuchh upay karne se aadmi dil laga ke mehnat karta hai to kya nuksan hai. lk kaamyabi ka short cut nahi batati, yeh aapko yeh batati hai aap apna chal chalan,vyohar,baddon ki izzat karen, agar fir bhi koi problem hai to apni mehnat ka fal lene ke liye kya karen, or yeh 100% sahi hai ki apko result postive hi meilega. agar kisi ne kisi ka 1 crore dena hai, woh nahi dega to police case ho gaya ya jisne lena hai woh police /court mein chala gaya to kya koyla jal pravah karne se woh bach jayega nahi, agar aap nirdosh hain, aap par jhootha ilzam hai, court ya police tang kar rahi hai , tab aap upay karen fir dekhen ki aapki baat har jagah suni ja rahi ya nahi, ya wohi aadmi apni baat sahi tarike se explain kar payega, jis se uski mushkil aasan ho jaye. bas yehi hai upay ka fayda ya astrology ka fayda.>>>>>>>>> Now I start from the last sentence that " bas yehi hai upay ka fayda ya astrology ka fayda. " . So you think that astrology is suggesting to behave properly (like bado ki izzat etc.). Actually you are not ANALYSING any thing. Astrology predict some thing and astrologer try to liquidate or enhance the socalled effect of planets by some pooja of planets (which they will see from crores of miles), wear some gem, ring etc. and will change there GOCHAR, because so long their transit is fixed means there socalled effect in view of there position in some sign etc would also be fixed and can not be altered. So first of all you have to decide as to whether destiny is fixed or not. You may take any option and then try to analyse. Though LK is sometimes suggesting about good behaviour, but do you think a murderer can escape with his good work in front of some one, whereas his entire life and except few minutes of day rest is full with bad behaviour can be saved from the punishment. If you are not able to put forward your views then you cant increase it by following the remedies of LK like through some revadi or coal or coins in flowing water and so on. Yes, if some one is psychologically retarded (just less then mad) then he will think that now every odd situations will be taken care of by coal, revadi or coins and so on. In this situation nothing can be done for such retarded persons and we can follow any thing by which his madness or loose confidence may gain some strength. But I am not discussing this matter for such retarded persons, I am discussing this matter with some intelligent lot (as I think) who are in 21st century and using a logical machine ie computer.Regarding your opinion " lk ke kuchh upay karne se aadmi dil laga ke mehnat karta hai to kya nuksan hai " I will like to say that do LK or astrologer is saying that dil laga ke mehnat karo, If that poor fellow has faith on his work then why he is falling in the trap of LK or astrologer. It is because he has mentally tuned that every thing is done by planets who can be cured by ring / lk etc. >>>>>>>> lk apko jine ka dhang (way) batati hai na ki yeh batati hai, ki bagair mehnat ke kamyab kaise hua jaye.<<<<<<< Good, so do you think that it is the jine ka dangh that one must through some thing in flowing water or put some mark on his head and so on. >>>>>>>> 11th surya walon ki life aap chek karen, woh agar non veg. le rahen to unko kya prblm hain. fir 11th surya ka upay karwa kar dekhen ki kya farak pada.<<<<<<<< So, do you think that by taking non-veg with sun in 11th house (ie born on any day around 10) will get some harm and avoiding non-veg will do some positive gain. WHAT A NONSENCE. Though I am Jain and yes against non-veg but it has nothing to do with effect of planet. Just come out from your little world. 90% of the world population are non- veg and ofcourse 8% of them have sun in 11th house, so do you think they are not rich, healthy, powerfull, popular and so on. >>>>>>vaise bhi agar aap yeh maante hain ki jyotish ek bakwas hai to aapke ya mere maanane se kya hoga . agar maanane se usko kaam karne ka shaunk lagta hai ya dil laga ke mehnat karta hai to isme samaj ko kya nuksaan hai. aap yeh batayen ki jyotish jhooth hai iss se samaj ko kya farak padega. <<<<<<< Before Galileo no body believes that Earth is not in the centre or sphere or is a part of solar system. He was only one among fools. But now every body follows that concept and using settalite technology in Internet. In the same way don't think that if you are not believing in astrology than it is not going to make any difference. Because initially you yourself will try to work and improve your knowledge instead of wasting your time in LK or astrologer then your family will follow you because child learns from the family. As writer of LK has not teached you to follow his system but you are infected by that person who was following this system . In the same way you can cure some infected person by leading some logical approach in life. Don't be hooked by others without studying in depth atleast on those matters which are under question. Don't think that after following LK remedies of througing some thing, keeping something he is going to work hard. Instead of this he will look after the result by doing the same life routine either of labour or lazy. BY following such totke our society is not going to happy but actually you are reducing their selfconfidence. Cant you suggest in plain words to all your clients to do hard work do izzat of badon ki and so on instead of suggesting baseless totke, if you are really well wisher of the society (like me). Your do you think that they will not follow such suggestion which are not supported by some baseless talks. Please do not take shelter in >>>>>>> aapke ya mere maanane se kya hoga<<<<<<<<< because remember though one candle (dia) (aap or mei) may not be able to destroy the darkness (ignorance, blindfaith, misunderstanding, foolishness………..) of forest (society) but many misguided traveler (individual who are wasting their time in astrologer /LK) can find their way (right concept) only from the light (best suggestion, advise, knowledge, teaching, interaction……….) of one candle and may reach to their destination (successful life). >>>>>>>mein koi astroler nahi, na hi yeh kaam karta hoon. <<<<<<<< It makes no difference because now you are making the way to those individuals who will follow your advise and will loose their self- confidence. Thus you are simply moulding them so that they may be easy prey for astrologers. >>>>>>lk ke anusar man changa to kathoti mein Ganga. <<<<< then there is no need of any totke >>>>>>bas lk ke anusar apna life style bana ke dekhiye, fir change dekhiye.<<<<< So purchase a bagful of revadi, coal, coins etc and start to live a best life by throwing them in flowing water. I hope you will start to think a fresh. Thanks, Yours truly, Sanat (readers may write to me on my email sanatkumar_jain) , " mts3434 " <mts3434 wrote: > > DEAR SANAT JEE, > mein aapko LK ke baare mein kuchh bata raha hoon kripya iss par kuchh > reaschr karen. Jis jatak ka rahu 8th house mein ho aur sun 4th house > mein ho app usko sikka (led) jal prvah karva kar dekhe kya result > milta hai iss tarah ke 50 jatak talash karen or study karen. Iss > tarah kee kuchh or bhee baaten apko milengi ya mein bata doonga or > study karen LK par aapka swagat hai.jyotish sahi ya galat iss behas > mein nahi padna chahta aap LK ke result dekhiye. > JAGMOHAN > , " kulbirbains " > <kulbirbainz@> wrote: > > > > sanat ji, on one hand u claim to have done research on indian > > astrology for 35 years and yet you call tounge as a coming under > > mars, feet and head under saturn. how do u expect us to enter a > > debate when u don't have even primary knowledge about indian > > astrology. > > please get some knowledge of lalkitab and then we can discuss.the > > moderator is not going to be disturbed by any objections. please > > don't have any such apprehensions. i assure he will be more than > > happy if this group leads someone to clarity. i think pradeep ji is > > correct that u studied only the yavan system and not indian > > astrology and philosphy. u should do some more research on energy > > fields/emitions. meaning of upaya, importance of symbology etc. > also > > read something about sanchit, arjit and prarabadh., shakki and > pakka > > grahas in lalkitab. > > kulbir > > , " sanat2221 " > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > Astrology a science or myth > > > > > > Dear Bhardwaj Ji, > > > Namaskar, > > > Thanks for your comments and suggestion of putting the book on > > net. > > > But it cannot be done because now it will be against copyright of > > > publisher and Hindi book " Jyotish Kitna Sahi Kitna galat " has > > > original research based 325 pages, which is not a small book. > > > > > > >>>>> In my opinion,Most of your querries in your letter have > > simple > > > answers <<<<<<<<< > > > > > > It may be, but if you have these simple answers then I am > waiting > > > for that, and if you have these logical answers in view of the > > then > > > primitive knowledge then you may also know that these > astrological > > > principles are not logical in view of modern knowledge, which is > > > quite against the primitive concept. > > > > > > >>>>>>>>You have not given your views about these > > questions.<<<<<<<< > > > > > > It is not correct, I have given a hint for every question and for > > > detail analysis and procedure adopted to formulate all > > astrological > > > principles you have to go through the book " Jyotish Kitna Sahi > > Kitna > > > galat " . > > > > > > >>>>>>>discuss step by step in the group if you have any doubts > > about > > > the astrological studies.<<<<<<< > > > > > > I have already raised many points or doubts in astrological > > > principles now it is your turn to answer, yes, you can answer > step > > by > > > step. > > > > > > >>>>>>Presently we are discussing the LalKitab > > > system.If you have any doubts regarding this system to > > discuss<<<<<<< > > > > > > The remedies of LK is for correcting effect of planets. When I am > > > raising questions against astrology it-self then it is obvious > > that > > > LK is being questioned. Life is not so easy which can be moulded > > > (because we have to mould others life for getting some thing for > > our > > > life) by some curd, almond, rise, ice, oil etc. If you change the > > > course of anyone's life with socalled remedies then where is the > > > prediction which is fixed because birth horoscope and transit of > > the > > > planets and their effect as worked out after applying the > > > astrological principles are fixed. And if you change some effect > > (as > > > you claim) then it will generate cascading effect, which in turn > > will > > > change the future of every one not alone the individual who is > > > carrying out the remedy. > > > > > > So long every one is in the grip of Saturn from both ends (black > > > hair and footwear) with Mars in between (tounge and blood) you > > can > > > not cure planets. Thus you may start to suggest for shaving the > > head > > > of women without footwear and spilt the tounge and try to remove > > the > > > blood only then some one can be cured from the ill effect of > > > planets. IS IT POSSIBLE ??? > > > > > > We Indians are very simple with little ambitions and do not want > > to > > > take pains and always try to get some shortcut by this way or > that > > > way. BUT THERE IS NO SHORTCUT OF SUCCESS IN LIFE. However, > > > individual with weak mental status may be lured to correct every > > odd > > > of the life with some curd or almond. If it would have been so > > > simple then there is no need of any school, hospital and law > etc. > > > because every thing would have achieved with some remedy either > > > competition or business or illness and so on. Thus actually by > > > supporting such concept we are underestimating the labour of > > sincere > > > hard working individuals. > > > > > > >>>>>>>PS. Without jumping in the Sea one cannot explore its > > > richness.<<<<<<< > > > How you can say so when I am studying astrology since last 35 > > years > > > and try to conclude any one correct principle. If you have any > one > > > correct principle then Please let me know. I am also uploading > > a > > > file " Eskain Kundali " in your file section by which you can see > > > that I myself developed and drawn a horoscope covering all sort > > of > > > astrological principles for concluding any correct prediction > > with > > > so many self developed > > > softwares. > > > > > > Heartly thanks for your comments. > > > Hope now you will go through my entire blog. Hope to hear soon. > > > Yours truly, > > > > > > > > > Sanat > > > Readers may write on my email Sanatkumar_jain@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj " > > > <nirbhar@> wrote: > > > > > > >> > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2008 Report Share Posted January 26, 2008 Dear Kulbir Ji, Namaskar, Thanks for your comments on my mail to you and to other members of the forum. >>>>>>>>>>2.lalkitab author also started with your objective only when he didn't get results with astronomy based astrology he combined astronomical astrology with palmistry with vaastu with karmic theory and termed it as samudrik or oceanic knowledge. BUT HE HAD A POSITIVE OUTLOOK. there lies the difference.<<<<<<<<< At one end you are saying that >>>>>he didn't get results with astronomy based astrology<<<<<< and on ht other end neither he (writer of LK) nor you are clarifying as to how you (LK) have socalled correctly concluded that such and such part of astrological principles are right and rest is not correct which may be opted from other branch like palmistry etc. This was my questions raised in my first mail which is still pending and we all are beating the bush. >>>>>3. nothing can be discussed about lalkitab principles until and unless u genunely study or atleast try to study the subject.<<<<<<<< How you can say that I have not studied it. I have very well studied it and know that how LK horoscope is drafted and how they follow the astrological principles of lordship, aspect, friendship etc. . I have raised such questions in my first mail. Thus until you come forward as to how these formula were formulated and LK writer has verified that formulation is right till then what is the sense in following some totka without knowing the relation between cause and effect. If you don't have answers then either you read my book or else find out the answer for fruitfull interaction. >>>>>>4. we have read many books like yours in our initial days so please excuse us from reading ur book. instead u read lalkitab.<<<<<< OK, then why are you not answering my basis questions and throwing the boll here and there. >>>>>>5. about placement of planets i have already told you the concept of tewe ki darusti but you seem to be not intersted and only rest on your personal granth.<<<<<<<<< There is no system in LK by which you can correct any astronomical data except some correction based on some incidents and by this you can shift any planet to any sign without support of astronomical data, as is being done by fixing all horoscope with Aries sign as ascendant. So there is no question of personal, as it is very much data based information. >>>>>>>>> if your book had been so valuable it would have already been a best seller and afforded you a noble prize for saving society. sadly that is not the case and you alone are blowing your own trumpet. <<<<<<<< Whether book is valuable or not or best seller or not etc. is not my concern because it is the responsibility of publisher. If first book is not worthwhile then no publisher would have been jumped to publish in English and dealers of USA /UK may not involve in marketing it. >>>>TARIIF WAH HOTI HAI JO DUNIYA KARE NA KI APNE MUNH MIAN MITHU BANANE SE.<<<<<<<< Again you are putting some words in my mouth. I have never commented any thing about my book except the content. Because I know the comments of readers. But I will not share it because they actually it will be praising myself. So left if and either answer the questions raised or try to find out if you can. >>>>>>>6.ABOUT FAMILY KNITTING again symbolism plays an important part and unfortunately you don't know anything about it.<<<<<< How a planet situated miles away will be pleased with your symbols, which you have yourself decided without asking the planet, What a fun. >>>>>>7. in the end my last advise if you wanta discussion pick up LK. write down your apprehensions. we shall try to answer it.<<<<<<< Appreciation has no answer. Only question have answers. You have no answer then what I can do. >>>>>8. we love people like you because you prompt us to research more and find new treasures of wisdom.<<<<<<< Thanks, and go ahead to find the answers >>>>>>by the way AIDS= astrology is DEVELOPING society and not DAMAGING society.<<<<<<<< IS IT SO, You are developing the society by throwing the revadi, coal, coins in flowing water. Actually you are not only damaging the society but infusing a complex by which every body will like to throw some symbol without exerting and doing hard work with self confidence. Thanks Yours truly, Sanat Sanatkumar_jain , " kulbirbains " <kulbirbainz wrote: > > Sanat ji; > 1.Nirmal ji is moderator of this group and duty bound to answer all > genuine querries. it is his commitment to us. so there is no problem > on that account. > 2.lalkitab author also started with your objective only when he > didn't get results with astronomy based astrology he combined > astronomical astrology with palmistry with vaastu with karmic theory > and termed it as samudrik or oceanic knowledge. BUT HE HAD A > POSITIVE OUTLOOK. there lies the difference. > 3. nothing can be discussed about lalkitab principles until and > unless u genunely study or atleast try to study the subject. > 4. we have read many books like yours in our initial days so please > excuse us from reading ur book. instead u read lalkitab. > 5. about placement of planets i have already told you the concept of > tewe ki darusti but you seem to be not intersted and only rest on > your personal granth. if your book had been so valuable it would > have already been a best seller and afforded you a noble prize for > saving society. sadly that is not the case and you alone are blowing > your own trumpet. TARIIF WAH HOTI HAI JO DUNIYA KARE NA KI APNE MUNH > MIAN MITHU BANANE SE. > 6.ABOUT FAMILY KNITTING again symbolism plays an important part and > unfortunately you don't know anything about it. > 7. in the end my last advise if you wanta discussion pick up LK. > write down your apprehensions. we shall try to answer it. > 8. we love people like you because you prompt us to research more > and find new treasures of wisdom. > kulbir > > , " sanat2221 " > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > Astrology a science or myth > > > > Dear Bhardwaj Ji, > > Namaskar, > > Thanks for your comments. > > I am starting from the last line. > > >>>>>>> I beg pardon if any of my above comments be felt offensive > by > > you. <<<<<<<< > > > > Rest assured I will never felt anything offensive because I have > > entered in your forum with opposite view hence I am prepared for > any > > wordings. But I am sorry to create problem by opposing your stand > in > > your forum. So I must beg pardon for all of my comments. But you > are > > always free to stop answering. But if we have some opposite views > it > > does not mean that I have any personal enmity. I hope you will > agree. > > Let us move further with our views. Though you have left many > points > > untouched from my 1st and 2nd mail, but it is always your right to > > answer on some points and left others. But I will try to answer > your > > points. Sorry for any adverse comments. > > > > >>>>>>when I completed my graduation(Rishi) in astrology course in > > the institute.<<<<<<< > > This is the main problem which is not allowing you to review whole > > situation with new angle. Though these points came to your mind > > before completing the course but you have not clarified those > points > > during the completion of course. > > > > >>>>>>…….We term these astrologers as 'Postmortem > > Astrologers',>>>>>>>> > > Good comment. > > >>>>>>> ………It means that we should keep apart what we read so far > in > > other system of astrology.<<<<<<<< > > Yes, but if you take some thing from other branch then either you > > must know about it or may be prepared to answer the questions > raised. > > Thus if you are leaving rashi / nachatra then why are you (You > means > > LK. In future too take it as LK) using Aries sign in ascendant, > and > > how you have worked out that Saturn / mars etc are evil planets, > and > > how you have worked out that so and so planet can be befooled by > so > > and so colour. Actually all this tradition have been borrowed from > > planetary astrology. > > > > >>>>>>>Regarding other queries of eclipse etc,it is a chapter of > > astronomy and every answer lies there. <<<<<<<< > > > > Why astronomy, now you are using science. Eclipse etc were part of > > astrology and they are still part of astrology. Though scientist > > classified it as astronomy. Let them. But you can answer it under > > astrology and clarify as to why Rahu was 11/12 degrees away from > the > > point of eclipse and so on. Otherwise placement of Rahu and remedy > by > > LK would not be wrong. Because Rahu may not be there, where you > are > > placing and treating him. > > > > >>>>>>> what our ancient edicts say about it, I > > cannot comment upon it as I do not know Sanskrit and I have not > read > > any original books because of lack of Sanskrit knowledge. <<<<<<<< > > It has nothing to do as to whether you know Sanskrit or not. > Because > > when you are following some thing of sages it means you think that > > they are correct hence you must be prepared to answer any querry > or > > read further because you are following something only after > reading > > translation so what is the harm in answering after reading some > > further translation. > > > > >>>>>Terming any research wrong on the basis of any translated > > material is not justified as far as me is concerned. <<<<<<<< > > Then how terming any translated material as right may be justified. > > > > >>>>>>>It is for the user to accept or reject as per there > > experiences. <<<<< > > No, it is not the experience by which some one goes to any pathy. > > Because experience here is not personal but social. But if some > one > > say that you are going to wrong pathy then one must rethink. In > the > > same way when scientist say that > > >>>>>planets as dead dudes <<<<< > > then why don't you rethink and come out with some solid scientific > > proof. Do you believe the concept of solar system or you believe > that > > Earth is stationary and flat and so on…………….. > > > > >>>>>>We consider each and every surroundings whether living or > > nonliving, stationery or movable has an effect on human behavior. > > <<<<<< > > Where it is written in any scripture. Scientifically, a Car > standing > > nearby you may have more gravitational effect then a planet. > > > > >>>>>It may be your own experience that these planets do not > effect > > any body. This debate continue to exist as long as the scientists > > don't make human being in laboratory and keep the atma or soul in > > their control. <<<<<<<<< > > These two points (soul and planets) are totally not linked with > each > > other. And continue to keep watch scientific research. Are they > not > > creating human beings in test tube and so on again we will left > our > > main point > > > > > > >>>>>>As per Lalkitab theory if one consider-Sun as his own soul & > > body, the father/dada as -Brihaspati(Guru), Moon as mother or > mother > > like , Mercury as sister,daughter or Bhua, Mars as Brother, > Shukkar > > as Wife or husband, Saturn as Chacha, rahu as Sasur, Ketu as Son, > he > > is not doing any sin. This will not harm the society, it will > rather > > help to knit well the harmony in the families.>>>>>> > > No, it is not going to knit well the family. If instead of > thinking > > Sukra as your wife and pleasing that planet, It would be much > better > > if you try to please your wife. Likewise you can try to please > > yourself (instead of Sun), Teacher, father (instead of Brihspati) > and > > so on. Thus family will be well knit. And more over how a > planetary > > body of thousands/laks km in diameter is going to locate your > curd, > > milk, oil and so on and will amend himself by changing his effect > so > > that it may left you and grab your neighbour. > > > > > > >>>>>>…. therefore it is a waste of time to > > keep on discussing such useless data.>>>>>>>> > > > > It is your right to stop this interaction. > > > > >>>>I have seen the 'Eskain Kundli " and truly speaking I could not > > understand the contents of the kundli.<<<<<< > > This kundli was devised to cover all astrological principles so > that > > their may not be any possibility to get some escape route from any > > final result But even despite this that is all sort of > pathological > > examination ie. Blood test, xray, scan and so on. there is not a > true > > result. You have to read my original book " Jyotish kitna sahi > kitna > > galat " for knowing in detail. Though hints have been given in the > > horoscope it self. > > > > >>>>>> you have a research based mind and Lalkitab requires > > such types of person to explore it. It is welcome step if you start > > studying this system and bring your research out.>>>>>>> > > I have already gone through LK. But mother of all sort of > > predictive / remedial measure is planetary astrology. Other > branches > > have adopted some portion of planetary astrology. Yes I am ready > to > > research in any direction, because I am totally open minded but > > there must be some logical reasoning where I could move. If you > will > > go through my book and find some point where I must move then I am > > ready to move. > > > > Best Regards > > Heartly thanks for your comments. > > Yours truly, > > > > > > Sanat > > > > > > , " Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj " > > <nirbhar@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sanat Ji, > > > Almost all the points raised by you, came to my mind when I > > completed > > > my graduation(Rishi) in astrology course in the institute. You > have > > > rightly said that a new breed of astrologer is emerging > strongly, > > who > > > by hook and crook justify any event by putting any of the the > > several > > > rules of astrology. We term these astrologers as 'Postmortem > > > Astrologers', specialist of doing > > > postmortem of an event. > > > Let us come to your queries. I give following quotes from > lalKitab > > > " Rashi Chhodi Nakshatra Bhulaya " > > > Means, in this system of astrology Nakshatra and rashis are > > > required.This means all navansha dashaansha etc, digbal, > shadbala, > > > lagnesh, astmesh etc not required.Even Rahu and ketu can come in > a > > > single house which is not in traditional system of astrology. It > > means > > > that we should keep apart what we read so far in other system of > > > astrology. > > > > > > Regarding other queries of eclipse etc,it is a chapter of > astronomy > > > and every answer lies there. what our ancient edicts say about > it, I > > > cannot comment upon it as I do not know Sanskrit and I have not > read > > > any original books because of lack of Sanskrit knowledge. > Terming > > any > > > research wrong on the basis of any translated material is not > > > justified as far as me is concerned. Since you have read the > > original > > > material you might be saying right. > > > > > > Regarding correcting the planet effect by remedial measures, > whether > > > possible or not I will not go in for this debate like never > ending > > > story . Ayurvedas rejcts Allopathy, allopathic discard ayurveda, > > > Homoeopathy has its own rules. It is for the user to accept or > > reject > > > as per there experiences. Similarly in the astrological concepts > it > > is > > > up to the students/user/astrologers to term it as right or wrong > > > depending upon their experiences. You term planets as dead dudes > but > > > we dont.We consider each and every surroundings whether living or > > > nonliving, stationery or movable has an effect on human > behavior. It > > > may be your own experience that these planets do not effect any > > body. > > > This debate continue to exist as long as the scientists don't > make > > > human being in laboratory and keep the atma or soul in their > > control. > > > So till then it is free to everybody to consider what he thinks > as > > right. > > > As per Lalkitab theory if one consider-Sun as his own soul & > body, > > the > > > father/dada as -Brihaspati(Guru), Moon as mother or mother like , > > > Mercury as sister,daughter or Bhua, Mars as Brother, Shukkar as > Wife > > > or husband, Saturn as Chacha, rahu as Sasur, Ketu as Son, he is > not > > > doing any sin. This will not harm the society, it will rather > help > > to > > > knit well the harmony in the families. > > > You may term it as shrugging of your queries, but since we don't > use > > > this type of data in these studies therefore it is a waste of > time > > to > > > keep on discussing such useless data. > > > > > > I have seen the 'Eskain Kundli " and truly speaking I could not > > > understand the contents of the kundli. Just put the planetary > > > positions in house, it is suffice. > > > Dear Sanat Ji, you have a research based mind and Lalkitab > requires > > > such types of person to explore it. It is welcome step if you > start > > > studying this system and bring your research out. > > > I beg pardon if any of my above comments be felt offensive by > you. > > > Best Regards > > > Nirmal > > > , " sanat2221 " > > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Astrology a science or myth > > > > > > > > Dear Bhardwaj Ji, > > > > Namaskar, > > > > Thanks for your comments and suggestion of putting the book on > > net. > > > > But it cannot be done because now it will be against copyright > of > > > > publisher and Hindi book " Jyotish Kitna Sahi Kitna galat " has > > > > original research based 325 pages, which is not a small book. > > > > > > > > >>>>> In my opinion,Most of your querries in your letter have > > simple > > > > answers <<<<<<<<< > > > > > > > > It may be, but if you have these simple answers then I am > > waiting > > > > for that, and if you have these logical answers in view of > the > > then > > > > primitive knowledge then you may also know that these > > astrological > > > > principles are not logical in view of modern knowledge, which > is > > > > quite against the primitive concept. > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>You have not given your views about these > > questions.<<<<<<<< > > > > > > > > It is not correct, I have given a hint for every question and > for > > > > detail analysis and procedure adopted to formulate all > > astrological > > > > principles you have to go through the book " Jyotish Kitna Sahi > > Kitna > > > > galat " . > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>discuss step by step in the group if you have any > doubts > > about > > > > the astrological studies.<<<<<<< > > > > > > > > I have already raised many points or doubts in astrological > > > > principles now it is your turn to answer, yes, you can answer > > step by > > > > step. > > > > > > > > >>>>>>Presently we are discussing the LalKitab > > > > system.If you have any doubts regarding this system to > > discuss<<<<<<< > > > > > > > > The remedies of LK is for correcting effect of planets. When I > am > > > > raising questions against astrology it-self then it is obvious > > that > > > > LK is being questioned. Life is not so easy which can be > moulded > > > > (because we have to mould others life for getting some thing > for > > our > > > > life) by some curd, almond, rise, ice, oil etc. If you change > the > > > > course of anyone's life with socalled remedies then where is > the > > > > prediction which is fixed because birth horoscope and transit > of > > the > > > > planets and their effect as worked out after applying the > > > > astrological principles are fixed. And if you change some > effect > > (as > > > > you claim) then it will generate cascading effect, which in > turn > > will > > > > change the future of every one not alone the individual who > is > > > > carrying out the remedy. > > > > > > > > So long every one is in the grip of Saturn from both ends > (black > > > > hair and footwear) with Mars in between (tounge and blood) > you > > can > > > > not cure planets. Thus you may start to suggest for shaving > the > > head > > > > of women without footwear and spilt the tounge and try to > remove > > the > > > > blood only then some one can be cured from the ill effect of > > > > planets. IS IT POSSIBLE ??? > > > > > > > > We Indians are very simple with little ambitions and do not > want > > to > > > > take pains and always try to get some shortcut by this way or > > that > > > > way. BUT THERE IS NO SHORTCUT OF SUCCESS IN LIFE. However, > > > > individual with weak mental status may be lured to correct > every > > odd > > > > of the life with some curd or almond. If it would have been > so > > > > simple then there is no need of any school, hospital and law > > etc. > > > > because every thing would have achieved with some remedy > either > > > > competition or business or illness and so on. Thus actually by > > > > supporting such concept we are underestimating the labour of > > sincere > > > > hard working individuals. > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>PS. Without jumping in the Sea one cannot explore its > > > > richness.<<<<<<< > > > > How you can say so when I am studying astrology since last 35 > > years > > > > and try to conclude any one correct principle. If you have any > > one > > > > correct principle then Please let me know. I am also > uploading > > a > > > > file " Eskain Kundali " in your file section by which you can > see > > > > that I myself developed and drawn a horoscope covering all > sort > > of > > > > astrological principles for concluding any correct prediction > > with > > > > so many self developed > > > > softwares. > > > > > > > > Heartly thanks for your comments. > > > > Hope now you will go through my entire blog. Hope to hear soon. > > > > Yours truly, > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanat > > > > Readers may write on my email Sanatkumar_jain@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj " > > > > <nirbhar@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sanat, > > > > > your document has already been in the group file section. > You > > have > > > > > raised some crucials issues. It would be better if you put > your > > > > book > > > > > free of cost on net, so that your ideas reach each and every > > > > person. > > > > > In my opinion,Most of your querries in your letter have > simple > > > > > answers.You have not given your views about these > > questions.Anyhow > > > > we > > > > > assure you that these will be taken up in future and You are > > > > welcome > > > > > to discuss step by step in the group if you have any doubts > > about > > > > the > > > > > astrological studies. But Presently we are discussing the > > LalKitab > > > > > system.If you have any doubts regarding this system to > > discuss,you > > > > > are welcome. > > > > > Regards > > > > > Nirmal Kumar > > > > > Moderator > > > > > PS. Without jumping in the Sea one cannot explore its > richness. > > > > > > > > > > , > > > > > " sanat2221 " <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to > > some > > > > > > misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not > studied > > in > > > > > depth > > > > > > but you only have faith, because you have been informed > like > > > > this. > > > > > So > > > > > > come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as > to > > > > whether > > > > > > astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of > science > > due > > > > to > > > > > > some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the sentiments > of > > > > > > astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only > > want > > > > to > > > > > > emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let > us > > > > > examine > > > > > > it and then there will be no question of hurting, because > you > > > > have > > > > > > not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are > > standing > > > > > in > > > > > > support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has > been > > > > > > infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology > is > > a > > > > > > science without knowing the story of other side. I can > > understand > > > > > the > > > > > > problem of astrologer that they will loose their business > but > > if > > > > > you > > > > > > are a client then you must have right to know the truth or > > call > > > > an > > > > > > astrologer in the consumer forum. > > > > > > > > > > > > At the time of formulating the astrological principles in > > early > > > > > > Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being > has > > > > > > capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This > > > > > religious > > > > > > philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet > (Sun, > > > > Moon, > > > > > > Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days > > only > > > > > sages > > > > > > had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus > after > > > > > > prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill > to > > > > > predict > > > > > > solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so- called > > > > grabbing > > > > > > the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu. > > > > > > They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and > its > > > > > > duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer > > donations > > > > > etc. > > > > > > to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which > is > > > > still > > > > > > being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of > > > > > everybody > > > > > > is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this > > situation, > > > > it > > > > > > was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict > the > > fate > > > > of > > > > > > deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict > the > > > > fate > > > > > of > > > > > > King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate > > various > > > > > > astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge > of > > > > sages > > > > > > based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These > > > > > principles > > > > > > were the key factors for deciding the fate. > > > > > > > > > > > > Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never > > > > > percolated > > > > > > in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier > to > > learn > > > > > > such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these > principles > > > > were > > > > > > spread to other civilisation and later on developed as > > Western > > > > > system. > > > > > > What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One > > group > > > > > > belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology > > due to > > > > > > their business considerations (these astrologers always > try > > to > > > > fit > > > > > > past event very precisely within some astrological > principle > > > > within > > > > > a > > > > > > capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and > faith > > > > etc., > > > > > > but they are unable to predict any future event. Because > > > > > astrological > > > > > > principles lead to diverse predictions and that too > > diabolical > > > > > > opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in > fluke) > > may > > > > > come > > > > > > true then they start to harp on the same prediction and > start > > > > self > > > > > > praising instead of applying the same socalled principle > on > > other > > > > > > horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only > > > > mislead, > > > > > > create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can > > find > > > > > that > > > > > > only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group > > (say > > > > > > scientist) try to raise some logical questions against > > astrology. > > > > > But > > > > > > none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was > > the > > > > > level > > > > > > of information of sages about the Universe, who developed > > > > > > astrological principles in primitive age and what > procedure > > was > > > > > > adopted to formulate various principles relating to > Lordship, > > > > > > Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect, > Vinshottary > > > > > > periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles > then > > > > > following > > > > > > questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in > > > > subpara). > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among > > seven > > > > > > planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ? > > > > > > > > > > > > It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the > > stationary > > > > > > Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on………. > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is > enmity > > and > > > > > > friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are > enemy > > of > > > > > each > > > > > > other) ? > > > > > > Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and > demons > > over > > > > > > nector after sea-churning……….. > > > > > > 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect > (full, > > > > > quarter > > > > > > to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect > on > > > > seventh > > > > > > house) ? > > > > > > Based on the position of army in the battle field……….. > > > > > > > > > > > > 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are > > exalted > > > > and > > > > > > debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. > of > > Aries > > > > > > sign) ? > > > > > > Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when > duration > > of > > > > the > > > > > > day is more in comparison to night…… > > > > > > 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful > and > > hub > > > > > of > > > > > > our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha > whereas > > Venus > > > > > (a > > > > > > small planet) has 20 years ? > > > > > > Based on two triangles derived after working out the > effect > > of > > > > > > Universe on the basis of lord and exalted……. > > > > > > 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various > constellations > > > > > between > > > > > > nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Kratica was first constellation in Indian scriptures………. > > > > > > > > > > > > 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a > > week > > > > > > (Sunday, Monday etc.) ? > > > > > > Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the > > > > structure > > > > > > of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away….. > > > > > > > > > > > > 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde > > motion of > > > > > > Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)? > > > > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse….. > > > > > > 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are > > 180 > > > > deg. > > > > > > apart? > > > > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse……….. > > > > > > 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of > eclipse ? > > > > > > Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation month………. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question > as > > to > > > > > > whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one > > gave > > > > > > answers to these questions then he will realise that > entire > > > > > > astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept > of > > > > > > Universe. > > > > > > > > > > > > Everybody may agree that every research is based on the > then > > > > > > knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed > by > > sage > > > > > > Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is > in > > the > > > > > > centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed > in > > all > > > > > > religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read > > any > > > > old > > > > > > scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas > Moon > > is > > > > > beyond > > > > > > Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury > and > > Moon. > > > > > > You may be surprised to know that all astrological > principles > > are > > > > > > actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self > studying > > > > > astrology > > > > > > since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude > > correct > > > > > > prediction. But if it is true at one time then same > > combination > > > > is > > > > > > not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh > logically > > and > > > > > > systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive > > > > concept > > > > > > (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling > in > > view > > > > of > > > > > > modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive > > concept > > > > > of > > > > > > Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed. > > > > > > After lot of research I wrote an original book on > astrology > > > > > " Jyotish - > > > > > > Kitna sahi kitna galat " in Hindi (330 pages). This book > > contains > > > > > the > > > > > > detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles > on > > the > > > > > basis > > > > > > of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our > > sages > > > > to > > > > > > formulate these principles. This book was also published > in > > > > English > > > > > > with the title " Astrology a science or myth " (450 pages). > You > > can > > > > > > realize that this is revolutionary book and will change > the > > face > > > > of > > > > > > predictive astrology in due course. If you interested to > know > > > > more > > > > > > about the book or description of various chapters then you > > may > > > > send > > > > > > email to me. The book is being marketed in USA /UK etc. > > > > > > Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do? > > > > produktID=1759836 > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp? > AUB=sanat% > > > > 20kumar% > > > > > > 20jain & TAG= & CID= > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx? > > > > > > ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t > > > > > > > > > > > > At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, > Neptune > > nor > > > > > they > > > > > > were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to > > presence > > > > > of > > > > > > Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed > the > > > > > concept > > > > > > of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It was > > > > mentioned > > > > > in > > > > > > the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came > > within > > > > 14 > > > > > > degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon). > > But > > > > > nobody > > > > > > will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse > > when > > > > > Sun, > > > > > > Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree > > respectively > > > > > on > > > > > > 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, > Moon > > and > > > > > Ketu > > > > > > were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on > 03- > > 03- > > > > 1988 > > > > > ( > > > > > > Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar > > > > eclipses > > > > > > occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was > more > > then > > > > > > 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at > > 79.04 > > > > > deg. > > > > > > on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon > were > > at > > > > > 76.49 > > > > > > deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu > was > > > > 15.14 > > > > > > deg. away). > > > > > > To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you > will > > > > also > > > > > > find in many modern astrological books that eclipse > occurred > > at > > > > the > > > > > > intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it > > was > > > > not > > > > > > known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis > of > > > > > myth). > > > > > > Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse, > when > > > > Moon > > > > > > happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be > there. > > But > > > > > As > > > > > > per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11- > > 1985 > > > > and > > > > > 3- > > > > > > 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were > full > > > > solar > > > > > > eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 > degree > > > > > > respectively. You will agree that when there were full > solar > > > > > eclipses > > > > > > then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and > > 166 > > > > > degree > > > > > > respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may > > possible. > > > > > > Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in > > almanac. > > > > > Thus > > > > > > there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees > > respectively. > > > > > All > > > > > > horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this > > > > fundamental > > > > > > positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you > > want > > > > then > > > > > I > > > > > > can give many more examples and very simple method of > > detecting > > > > > them. > > > > > > I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a > science > > but > > > > in > > > > > > primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of > astronomy > > + > > > > > > psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science, > > psychology > > > > > > (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive > age) > > > > played > > > > > an > > > > > > important role in handling a person by the astrologer due > to > > > > > immense > > > > > > faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology > > > > appears > > > > > to > > > > > > be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will > also > > > > agree > > > > > > with the above observation after going through my original > > > > > > revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre- > decided > > as > > > > was > > > > > > contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may > > try to > > > > > do > > > > > > some thing, because every thing will take place according > to > > pre- > > > > > > written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of > modifying > > that > > > > > pre- > > > > > > written destiny, because if we try to change only our > fate, > > even > > > > > then > > > > > > all attached happening will automatically change creating > a > > > > > cascading > > > > > > effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of > > every > > > > > > person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or > say > > pre- > > > > > > defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when > > every > > > > > Tom, > > > > > > Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship, > > good > > > > deed > > > > > > etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under > > change. > > > > > You > > > > > > will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical > > > > > > calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and > can > > > > never > > > > > > and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart > cannot > > be > > > > > > altered it means result of calculation or say prediction > is > > also > > > > > > fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever > > > > > prewritten) > > > > > > by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc. > > because in > > > > > > that case, if you like to say, then future events will be > > altered > > > > > but > > > > > > how a calculation of planetary transit or linked > prediction > > can > > > > be > > > > > > changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed > transit > > of > > > > > > planets? > > > > > > > > > > > > Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest > > assured > > > > > that > > > > > > actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. > Only > > > > > astronomy > > > > > > and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were > used > > > > > > unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it > appears > > > > > correct. > > > > > > Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a > myth. > > > > Still > > > > > if > > > > > > you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact > The > > > > James > > > > > > Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000 > prize > > to > > > > > > anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e- > mail > > and > > > > > > website is jref@ and http://www.randi.org Because modern > > > > > > technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being > used > > to > > > > > > spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested > > business > > > > > > interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight > this > > sort > > > > > of > > > > > > ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in > this > > > > regard > > > > > > and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology > > > > > > (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to > formulate > > > > > > principles was neither logical nor based on correct > > information > > > > of > > > > > > Universe, solar system. > > > > > > > > > > > > I will like to have your critical comments for further > > > > interaction > > > > > on > > > > > > my email sanatkumar_jain@ . It would be better to know > > > > > > the roots of astrology and facts, data behind it before > > falling > > > > in > > > > > > the trap and come forward to join hands because of AIDS > > > > (Astrology > > > > > Is > > > > > > Damaging Society). > > > > > > Sanat Kumar Jain > > > > > > Gwalior > > > > > > > > > > > > Reader may directly write to me on my email instead of > > creating > > > > > > problems to moderator > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2008 Report Share Posted January 26, 2008 Dear Sanat ji, What is the defination of astrology in your way? Regards Umesh Sharma , " sanat2221 " <sanatkumar_jain wrote: > > > Dear Bhardwaj Ji, > Namaskar, > Thanks for your comments. > > >>>> I FOUND ALL THE ANSWERS. STILL I WAS NOT SATISFIED WITH THE > TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGICAL SYSTEMS. BY THE GRACE OF GOD SOME GOOD > FRIENDS HAS INTRODUCED ME TO THIS NEW SYSTEM OF ASTROLOGY A FEW YEARS > BACK. I AM HAPPY THAT I HAVE BEEN TO THIS SYSTEM. <<<<<< > > If you find socalled all the answers then why are you not satisfied. > It means you have not found any logical answers. Thanks for your > admission. Again LK is not a system of astrology (predictive) hence > it is neither astronomy nor predictive astrology. It is based on > horoscope prepared under astrology (which in turn is based on > astronomy) with change of sign without any logical answer either > astrologically or astronomically or logically or scientifically. As > you are happy in this system hence you must answer these basic > questions. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Yes, but if you take some thing from other branch then > either you > must know about it or may be prepared to answer the questions raised. > Thus if you are leaving rashi / nachatra then why are you (You means > LK. In future too take it as LK) using Aries sign in ascendant, and > how you have worked out that Saturn / mars etc are evil planets, and > how you have worked out that so and so planet can be befooled by so > and so colour. Actually all this tradition have been borrowed from > planetary astrology. > > FOR LEARNING ANY SYSTEM YOU MUST FIRST BECOME A PART OF THAT SYSTEM > LEAVING A PART THE PRESET MIND. I AM NOT TERMING ANY SYSTEM WRONG. IT > IS ONES OWN LEVEL OF SATISFACTION. YOU ARE ACTUALY NOT BEEN FAMILIAR > TO LALKITAB SYSTEM. EVERY PLANET IN THIS SYSTEM CAN BE EVIL OR GOOD. > I DONT FIND IT IS WRITTEN IN ANY BOOK THAT A PLANET CAN BE > BEFOOLED.BY THE WAY WHEN YOU DONT TREAT PLANET LIVE THEN YOUR > QUESTION OF FOOLING THE PLANET SHOULD NOT ARISE. DISCUSSION CAN ONLY > BE TAKEN ON THE SAME PRINCIPLE OR SUBJECT. YOUR PRINCIPLES ARE > DIFFERENT THAN OURS. IT IS BETTER FOR US TO KEEP ON INDIVIDUAL > STUDIES. <<<<<<<<<<<<< > > I am always prepared to be a part of system but at least either it > must be scientific or logical or may be totally independent means it > may not have borrowed some thing from other branch which is already > in question (and you have also admitted that you are not satisfied > with planetary astrology.). Yes it is not written that a planet can > be befooled but by applying some remedial totke are you not trying to > liquidate the socalled evil effect of a planet, whereas planet > (except sun which is star not a planet) do not have any rays or any > cosmic effect then what are you curing. > IF FOR sake of discussion we may agree that planet have some rays > which you (LK) is curing even then at the most you can cure some > bodily (physical) problem but how you can change his future which > would be net result of his action, ability beside the action and > ability of so many others who are free to do any thing. > > >>>>>>>>>. But you can answer it under > astrology and clarify as to why Rahu was 11/12 degrees away from the > point of eclipse and so on. Otherwise placement of Rahu and remedy by > LK would not be wrong. Because Rahu may not be there, where you are > placing and treating him. > > DEGREES DOES NOT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE IN LALKITAB. WE DONT USE DEGREES > MINUTELY HERE. ONLY USE OF ASTRONOMY IN LALKITAB IS THE ASCENDENT, > THAT IS TOO TO FIX THE PLANETARY POSITION. STILL IT IS OPEN FOR > ASTROLOGER TO CORRRECT THE POSITION OF PLANETS AS PER SYMPTOMS EXISTS > IN THE NATIVE LIFE. THIS IS SCIENCE OF LK. <<<<<<<<<< > > NO, if as per astrology Rahu is say 5 degree of Taurus (with > ascendant Aries so that you may not again change ascendant) then in > LK it would be planced in 2nd house. If there is error of 12 deg. as > I have pointed out then astrologically it would be in Aries sign. But > how you are going to shift it to Aries when astrogers are not > changing it to Aries. Thus you are curing as if Rahu is in 2nd house > irrespective of degrees. Secondly do not use word science because > then you may have some scientific or logical answers. > > >>>>>>> It has nothing to do as to whether you know Sanskrit or not. > Because > when you are following some thing of sages it means you think that > they are correct hence you must be prepared to answer any querry or > read further because you are following something only after reading > translation so what is the harm in answering after reading some > further translation. > IT IS ONE'S OWN IDEOLOGY. I AM IN THE OPINION THAT THE EPICS/BOOKS > SHALL BE READ IN THE LANGUAGE IN WHICH IT IS WRITTEN BY AUTHOR. > TRANSLATERS PUT THEIR OWN MIND IN THE TRANSLATION HENCE MAKES THE > USEFUL AS WASTE SOMETIMES. I KNOW THE LANGUAGE IN WHICH THE LALKITAB > IS WRITTEN HENCE I FIND THIS SYSTEM MORE FAMILIAR AND USEFUL.THIS > STUDY IS SIMPLE AND DOES NOT REQUIRE THAT HUGE MATHEMETICAL > CALCULATIONS. <<<<<<<<<<< > > Again it is not correct. Are we not studied many scientific > principles in translated Hindi or English even if original verse may > be in Greek, Polish or Spanish languages. So your stand do not have > any substance except that LK system is a parasite which take half > planetary astrology and mixed with some totke that too without any > scientific or logical answer as to how pouring of oil and so on is > going to change the fate of an individual who is surrounded by many > persons. You have liked it because in this you have nothing to do > except some totkebaaji. SORRY > > >>>>>Terming any research wrong on the basis of any translated > material is not justified as far as me is concerned. <<<<<<<< > Then how terming any translated material as right may be justified. > TRY TO READ THE ORIGINAL AVAILABLE MATERIAL. IF ONE IS SO ANXIOUS HE > CAN LEARN THAT LANGUAGE. > 'WHY TO SEE FROM OTHERS EYES, WHEN ONE HAS HIS OWN EYES > INTACT'.<<<<<<< > > Agree, It means to whom you are advising some totke must read LK > themselves and do not rely upon on your advise. Because they have > both eyes. If it is so then you must advise your clients to read > original (not translated) LK himself. I hope now you will do like > this. > > >>>>>>>It is for the user to accept or reject as per there > experiences. <<<<< > No, it is not the experience by which some one goes to any pathy. > Because experience here is not personal but social. But if some one > say that you are going to wrong pathy then one must rethink. In the > same way when scientist say that > YOU MUST JUDGE THE CALLIBRE OF THE PERSON WHO SAY THAT 'YOU ARE > WRONG'. SCIENTIST HAD BEEN SAYING FOR THE LAST 50 YEARS THAT BCG > INJECTION IS GOOD TO SAY GOODBYE TO TB. NOW WHAT HAPPENS THEY SAY 'IT > IS USELESS'. IT IS THEIR EXPERIENCE WHICH CHANGES THEIR VERSION. > IN MY VIEWS 'ONES OWN EXPERIENCE RULES OVER AND ABOVE WHAT PEOPLE > SAY'. > > Scientists are right when they say that some inj. Is not good now > because bacterial has changed his structure. But LK has some > reasons behind evil effect of a planet and reasons for remedy except > psychological effect on an individual who are so simple minded that > any Baba can befool him (you may have gone through many news of > befooling the simple minded people.) So if you like to misguide (if > you do not like the word befooling) simple minded persons then > what I can say. > > >>>>> Do you believe the concept of solar system or you believe that > Earth is stationary and flat and so on…………….. > CAN YOU DEFINE WORD 'SCIENCE'. > I BELIEVE EARTH IS FLAT AND STATIONARY AS FAR AS I AM ON EARTH. WHEN > I GO TO SPACE THEN I WILL SAY EARTH IS MOVING AND ROUND. IT IS LAW OF > RELATIVITY. > ASTROLOGY IS BASED UPON SOLAR SYSTEM. EVERY HUMAN BEING IS AFFECTED > BY THESE PLANETS. > YOU KNOW THERE IS NO PLANET NAMELY RAHU & KETU IN SOLAR SYSTEM. EVEN > THEN YOU ARE DISUCSSING RAHU & KETU. BECAUSE THESE POSITIONS OF MOON > ORBIT AFFECT THE PLANETARY ENERGY. <<<<<<<<<<< > > Science is a systematic study of anything with some logical answers. > You can not say both ways that Earth is flat as well as spherical and > stationary as well as moving. Our sages were scientist so long they > were studying and defining some principle on the basis of flat and > stationary Earth with the concept that Sun is near and Moon is far > away (for detail you may read my book). But when it is proved wrong > though after thousands of year then there is no question of > following the principles based on some old science. Where it is > written that astrology is based on solar system (which concept is > only 400 years old). How every human being may be effected by planets > when they do not have any cosmic effect (except Sun). In primitive > time they were considered as living deities hence it was presumed > that they may have effect. Can you explain which type of effect these > planet do have, which was refereed by our sages. Even they were not > awared with the Graviatational and magnetic concept of planets. Yes > I know that there is no planet like Rahu Ketu. And I am discussing it > because you are curing them in LK. Where it was written by any sages > that Moon orbit effect the planetary energy (thorough RKetu). They > were even not awared that orbits (sun and moon) intersects each > other. > > >>>>>>We consider each and every surroundings whether living or > nonliving, stationery or movable has an effect on human behavior. > <<<<<< > Where it is written in any scripture. Scientifically, a Car standing > nearby you may have more gravitational effect then a planet. > WHY ONE WEAR CLOTHES OF DIFFERENT DESIGN. WHY ONE WANT THAT HIS CAR > BE SO SHINY. WHY ONE WANT THAT HIS HOUSE BE LOOKED SO CLEAN AND > BETTER. THESE ALL ARE NON LIVING. > BECAUSE IT AFFECTS OUR MIND. STILL YOU SAY THAT THESE DOES NOT AFFECT > HUMAN BEING. CAN YOU LIVE WITH DEAD. EVEN THE SCRIPTURE ARE AFFECTING > YOU SO MUCH AND MAKE YOU RESTLESS EVEN THESE ARE NON LIVING. > WHY WANT SUN ENERGY IF PLANET IS DEAD. > IT IS ONES OWN WAY OF TERMING THE LIFE. YOUR WAY IS DIFFERENT FROM > OURS. ENJOY YOUR LIFE AND LET US ENJOY OURS. > > So you are washing the planets moving at a distance of crore of KM > with spoonful of oil etc. You are not admitting in clear words that > planetary phobia is effecting the mind because such phobia has been > created in the minds of general public. Hence it affects mind and > now you are curing his psychological phobia by some LK totke instead > of teaching him that there is neither effect nor cure nor LK is > going to change his future. IN other words you are infusing a phobia > and then curing it . > > > >>>>>These two points (soul and planets) are totally not linked with > each > other. And continue to keep watch scientific research. Are they not > creating human beings in test tube and so on again we will left our > main point > I FEEL YOU HAVE NO SCIETIFIC(YOUR TERM) ANSWER TO THIS. THEY ARE > CREATING TEST TUBES WITH HUMAN EMBRIYO. LET THEM MAKE DEAD ALIVE OT > MAKE HUMAN BEING NEVER DIE.TILL THEN WE HAVE TO BELIEVE WHAT WE > THINK. YOU MAY DELINK SOUL AND PLANETS, BUT THESE ARE UNIVERSALLY > LINKED. <<<<<<< > Whether scientist are able or not in doing some thing, it is not > going to make a difference on astrological principles and LK. So > linking of these two things is not logical and it is only a tactics > to divert the main point. > > >>>>>> No, it is not going to knit well the family. If instead of > thinking > Sukra as your wife and pleasing that planet, It would be much better > if you try to please your wife. Likewise you can try to please > yourself (instead of Sun), Teacher, father (instead of Brihspati) and > so on. Thus family will be well knit. And more over how a planetary > body of thousands/laks km in diameter is going to locate your curd, > milk, oil and so on and will amend himself by changing his effect so > that it may left you and grab your neighbour. > > IT IS ONE OWN WAY OF EXPERIENCING. HAVE YOU EVER READ PANCHTANTRA > STORIES. THEY AFFECT MORE THAN A TEACHERS LECTURE. I DONT FIND IN THE > BOOKS THAT YOU CAN GRAB YOUR NEIGHBOUR BY CURD OR ANY METHOD. > STUDY THE BOOK, USE THE SYSTEM, EXPERIENCE IT THEN GIVE YOUR > FINDINGS. THIS IS A BETTER WAY OF CRITICIZING. > ONLY QUESTION IS EXPLOITATION OF INNOCENT BY LUSTY PEOPLE. IF YOU > STUDY A SYSTEM THEN AND ONLY THEN YOU CAN MAKE PEOPLE AWARE THAT HOW > THEY ARE BEING EXPLOITED BY UNSCRUPLOUS PERSONS. <<<<<<<<<< > > Panchatantra stories were created to teach innocent public moreover > it has nothing to do with astrology and LK. I am not saying that you > are going to grab your neighbour with curd etc.But I mean to say > that by such totke you are thinking to liquidate the socalled evil > effect of planet and planet may grab those neighbour who is not doing > such totke. > > >>>>II DONT REQUIRE YOU BOOK NOW. PRESENTLY I AM STUDYING MORE > IMPORTANT > SYSTEM. REGARDING YOUR KUNDLI ,IN MY OPINION, IN FACT WHAT I FEEL IS > THAT > AFTER 35 YEARS OF YOUR STUDY, YOU HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO DECODE YOUR > KUNDLI. I INVITE YOU TO STUDY THIS SYSTEM FOR 3 YEARS SO, YOU WILL > FIND ALL THE ANSWERS. <<<<<<<< > > How I can decode (not like many astrologers) when principles of > astrology are not formulated on correct concept and all of them are > based on primitive concept. If you have answers then why don't you > come forward. If you will answer then definitely I will spent 3 > years. > > > >>>>>> NO YOU HAVE NOT GONE THROUGH THIS BOOK. YOU MAY HAVE GONE > TRANSLATED > MATERIALS WHICH DEPICTS MORE WRONG THAN RIGHT.THESE TRANSLATED > MATERIALS ARE INCOMPLETE, WRONG AND ARE WRONGLY TRANSLATED. WE HAVE > TO PUT SOME OF THE BEST TRANSLATED MATERIAL FREE OF CHARGE ON NET. > THIS MATERIAL STILL NOT FULLY CORRECT BUT IS MORE THAN 70% NEAR TO > CORRECT. YOU CAN REFER TO THAT MATERIAL FOR FLAVOUR. YOU MAY FIND IT > UNIQUE. AS YOU READ THE BOOK YOU WILL FIND THE LOGIC. WRITER HAS NOT > HIDE NAY THING WHICH CAME TO HIS MIND. THESE ARE VERY INTERESTING AND > GOOD BOOKS TO STUDY PREFERABLY IF YOU KNOW URDU YOU READ > ORIGINALS.THESE ARE PUT ONLINE INTO THE WEB FOR READING. WE ALSO > PROVIDE FREE CD OF THESE BOOKS.<<<<<<<<< > > If all translated books are wrong then you may atleast say so with > pointing out as to where they are wrong and what is correctly > written by the writer in 1952 edition. > > > >>>>>>> Presently It will not be possible for me to discuss > this matter any further. we may discuss it on some other time when > discussion on LK system ends.<<<<<<<< > It is always your right to discontinue any discussion. But it is > not my right. I am always prepared to read any thing and prepared > to change my scientific concept otherwise after studying and > preparing so many softwares of astrology, I would not have changed > my way that astrololgy is bogus. > > Thanks for your discussion > Best regards > Sanat > 0751-2626868 > sanatkumar_jain > > (Readers may write to me on my email sanatkumar_jain) > > > > > , " Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj " > <nirbhar@> wrote: > > > > Astrology a science or myth > > > > Dear Sanat Ji, > > I will try to give the answer point wise. My answers are in Caps > > > > Let us move further with our views. Though you have left many points > > untouched from my 1st and 2nd mail, but it is always your right to > > answer on some points and left others. But I will try to answer your > > points. Sorry for any adverse comments. > > > > AS I ALREADY SAID THAT THIS GROUP IS PRESENTLY DISCUSSING LALKITAB, > > IT IS NOT REQUIRED TO GIVE ANSWERS BECAUSE THESE ARE NOT USEFUL IN > > THE STUDY OF LALKITAB. I DONT FIND ANY ADVERSITY ON YOUR COMMENTS. > > > > >>>>>>when I completed my graduation(Rishi) in astrology course in > > the institute.<<<<<<< > > This is the main problem which is not allowing you to review whole > > situation with new angle. Though these points came to your mind > > before completing the course but you have not clarified those points > > during the completion of course. > > DEAR SANAT JI, I STUDIED AND STUDY EVERY SUBJECT UNORTHODOX WAY. IT > > IS MY WAY OF TAKING A SUBJECT.YOURS SEEMS TO THE SAME, MAY BE > LITTLE > > BIT DIFFERENT. I STUDIED THE TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGY AS WELL AS > > ASTRONOMY.I FOUND ALL THE ANSWERS. STILL I WAS NOT SATISFIED WITH > THE > > TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGICAL SYSTEMS. BY THE GRACE OF GOD SOME GOOD > > FRIENDS HAS INTRODUCED ME TO THIS NEW SYSTEM OF ASTROLOGY A FEW > YEARS > > BACK. I AM HAPPY THAT I HAVE BEEN TO THIS SYSTEM. > > >>>>>>…….We term these astrologers as 'Postmortem > > Astrologers',>>>>>>>> > > Good comment. > > >>>>>>> ………It means that we should keep apart what we read so far in > > other system of astrology.<<<<<<<< > > Yes, but if you take some thing from other branch then either you > > must know about it or may be prepared to answer the questions > raised. > > Thus if you are leaving rashi / nachatra then why are you (You means > > LK. In future too take it as LK) using Aries sign in ascendant, and > > how you have worked out that Saturn / mars etc are evil planets, and > > how you have worked out that so and so planet can be befooled by so > > and so colour. Actually all this tradition have been borrowed from > > planetary astrology. > > > > FOR LEARNING ANY SYSTEM YOU MUST FIRST BECOME A PART OF THAT SYSTEM > > LEAVING A PART THE PRESET MIND. I AM NOT TERMING ANY SYSTEM WRONG. > IT > > IS ONES OWN LEVEL OF SATISFACTION. YOU ARE ACTUALY NOT BEEN > FAMILIAR > > TO LALKITAB SYSTEM. EVERY PLANET IN THIS SYSTEM CAN BE EVIL OR > GOOD. > > I DONT FIND IT IS WRITTEN IN ANY BOOK THAT A PLANET CAN BE > > BEFOOLED.BY THE WAY WHEN YOU DONT TREAT PLANET LIVE THEN YOUR > > QUESTION OF FOOLING THE PLANET SHOULD NOT ARISE. DISCUSSION CAN > ONLY > > BE TAKEN ON THE SAME PRINCIPLE OR SUBJECT. YOUR PRINCIPLES ARE > > DIFFERENT THAN OURS. IT IS BETTER FOR US TO KEEP ON INDIVIDUAL > > STUDIES. > > > > >>>>>>>Regarding other queries of eclipse etc,it is a chapter of > > astronomy and every answer lies there. <<<<<<<< > > > > Why astronomy, now you are using science. Eclipse etc were part of > > astrology and they are still part of astrology. Though scientist > > classified it as astronomy. Let them. But you can answer it under > > astrology and clarify as to why Rahu was 11/12 degrees away from the > > point of eclipse and so on. Otherwise placement of Rahu and remedy > by > > LK would not be wrong. Because Rahu may not be there, where you are > > placing and treating him. > > > > DEGREES DOES NOT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE IN LALKITAB. WE DONT USE > DEGREES > > MINUTELY HERE. ONLY USE OF ASTRONOMY IN LALKITAB IS THE ASCENDENT, > > THAT IS TOO TO FIX THE PLANETARY POSITION. STILL IT IS OPEN FOR > > ASTROLOGER TO CORRRECT THE POSITION OF PLANETS AS PER SYMPTOMS > EXISTS > > IN THE NATIVE LIFE. > > THIS IS SCIENCE OF LK. > > > > >>>>>>> what our ancient edicts say about it, I > > cannot comment upon it as I do not know Sanskrit and I have not read > > any original books because of lack of Sanskrit knowledge. <<<<<<<< > > It has nothing to do as to whether you know Sanskrit or not. Because > > when you are following some thing of sages it means you think that > > they are correct hence you must be prepared to answer any querry or > > read further because you are following something only after reading > > translation so what is the harm in answering after reading some > > further translation. > > IT IS ONE'S OWN IDEOLOGY. I AM IN THE OPINION THAT THE EPICS/BOOKS > > SHALL BE READ IN THE LANGUAGE IN WHICH IT IS WRITTEN BY AUTHOR. > > TRANSLATERS PUT THEIR OWN MIND IN THE TRANSLATION HENCE MAKES THE > > USEFUL AS WASTE SOMETIMES. I KNOW THE LANGUAGE IN WHICH THE > LALKITAB > > IS WRITTEN HENCE I FIND THIS SYSTEM MORE FAMILIAR AND USEFUL.THIS > > STUDY IS SIMPLE AND DOES NOT REQUIRE THAT HUGE MATHEMETICAL > > CALCULATIONS. > > >>>>>Terming any research wrong on the basis of any translated > > material is not justified as far as me is concerned. <<<<<<<< > > Then how terming any translated material as right may be justified. > > TRY TO READ THE ORIGINAL AVAILABLE MATERIAL. IF ONE IS SO ANXIOUS > HE > > CAN LEARN THAT LANGUAGE. > > 'WHY TO SEE FROM OTHERS EYES, WHEN ONE HAS HIS OWN EYES INTACT'. > > > > >>>>>>>It is for the user to accept or reject as per there > > experiences. <<<<< > > No, it is not the experience by which some one goes to any pathy. > > Because experience here is not personal but social. But if some one > > say that you are going to wrong pathy then one must rethink. In the > > same way when scientist say that > > YOU MUST JUDGE THE CALLIBRE OF THE PERSON WHO SAY THAT 'YOU ARE > > WRONG'. SCIENTIST HAD BEEN SAYING FOR THE LAST 50 YEARS THAT BCG > > INJECTION IS GOOD TO SAY GOODBYE TO TB. NOW WHAT HAPPENS THEY > SAY 'IT > > IS USELESS'. IT IS THEIR EXPERIENCE WHICH CHANGES THEIR VERSION. > > IN MY VIEWS 'ONES OWN EXPERIENCE RULES OVER AND ABOVE WHAT PEOPLE > > SAY'. > > > > >>>>>planets as dead dudes <<<<< > > then why don't you rethink and come out with some solid scientific > > proof. Do you believe the concept of solar system or you believe > that > > Earth is stationary and flat and so on…………….. > > CAN YOU DEFINE WORD 'SCIENCE'. > > I BELIEVE EARTH IS FLAT AND STATIONARY AS FAR AS I AM ON EARTH. > WHEN > > I GO TO SPACE THEN I WILL SAY EARTH IS MOVING AND ROUND. IT IS LAW > OF > > RELATIVITY. > > ASTROLOGY IS BASED UPON SOLAR SYSTEM. EVERY HUMAN BEING IS AFFECTED > > BY THESE PLANETS. > > YOU KNOW THERE IS NO PLANET NAMELY RAHU & KETU IN SOLAR SYSTEM. > EVEN > > THEN YOU ARE DISUCSSING RAHU & KETU. BECAUSE THESE POSITIONS OF > MOON > > ORBIT AFFECT THE PLANETARY ENERGY. > > >>>>>>We consider each and every surroundings whether living or > > nonliving, stationery or movable has an effect on human behavior. > > <<<<<< > > > > Where it is written in any scripture. Scientifically, a Car standing > > nearby you may have more gravitational effect then a planet. > > WHY ONE WEAR CLOTHES OF DIFFERENT DESIGN. WHY ONE WANT THAT HIS CAR > > BE SO SHINY. WHY ONE WANT THAT HIS HOUSE BE LOOKED SO CLEAN AND > > BETTER. THESE ALL ARE NON LIVING. > > BECAUSE IT AFFECTS OUR MIND. STILL YOU SAY THAT THESE DOES NOT > AFFECT > > HUMAN BEING. CAN YOU LIVE WITH DEAD. EVEN THE SCRIPTURE ARE > AFFECTING > > YOU SO MUCH AND MAKE YOU RESTLESS EVEN THESE ARE NON LIVING. > > WHY WANT SUN ENERGY IF PLANET IS DEAD. > > IT IS ONES OWN WAY OF TERMING THE LIFE. YOUR WAY IS DIFFERENT FROM > > OURS. ENJOY YOUR LIFE AND LET US ENJOY OURS. > > >>>>>It may be your own experience that these planets do not effect > > any body. This debate continue to exist as long as the scientists > > don't make human being in laboratory and keep the atma or soul in > > their control. <<<<<<<<< > > These two points (soul and planets) are totally not linked with each > > other. And continue to keep watch scientific research. Are they not > > creating human beings in test tube and so on again we will left our > > main point > > I FEEL YOU HAVE NO SCIETIFIC(YOUR TERM) ANSWER TO THIS. THEY ARE > > CREATING TEST TUBES WITH HUMAN EMBRIYO. LET THEM MAKE DEAD ALIVE OT > > MAKE HUMAN BEING NEVER DIE.TILL THEN WE HAVE TO BELIEVE WHAT WE > > THINK. YOU MAY DELINK SOUL AND PLANETS, BUT THESE ARE UNIVERSALLY > > LINKED. > > > > >>>>>>As per Lalkitab theory if one consider-Sun as his own soul & > > body, the father/dada as -Brihaspati(Guru), Moon as mother or mother > > like , Mercury as sister,daughter or Bhua, Mars as Brother, Shukkar > > as Wife or husband, Saturn as Chacha, rahu as Sasur, Ketu as Son, he > > is not doing any sin. This will not harm the society, it will rather > > help to knit well the harmony in the families.>>>>>> > > No, it is not going to knit well the family. If instead of thinking > > Sukra as your wife and pleasing that planet, It would be much better > > if you try to please your wife. Likewise you can try to please > > yourself (instead of Sun), Teacher, father (instead of Brihspati) > and > > so on. Thus family will be well knit. And more over how a planetary > > body of thousands/laks km in diameter is going to locate your curd, > > milk, oil and so on and will amend himself by changing his effect so > > that it may left you and grab your neighbour. > > IT IS ONE OWN WAY OF EXPERIENCING. HAVE YOU EVER READ PANCHTANTRA > > STORIES. THEY AFFECT MORE THAN A TEACHERS LECTURE. I DONT FIND IN > THE > > BOOKS THAT YOU CAN GRAB YOUR NEIGHBOUR BY CURD OR ANY METHOD. > > STUDY THE BOOK, USE THE SYSTEM, EXPERIENCE IT THEN GIVE YOUR > > FINDINGS. THIS IS A BETTER WAY OF CRITICIZING. > > ONLY QUESTION IS EXPLOITATION OF INNOCENT BY LUSTY PEOPLE. IF YOU > > STUDY A SYSTEM THEN AND ONLY THEN YOU CAN MAKE PEOPLE AWARE THAT > HOW > > THEY ARE BEING EXPLOITED BY UNSCRUPLOUS PERSONS. > > > > >>>>>>…. therefore it is a waste of time to > > keep on discussing such useless data.>>>>>>>> > > > > It is your right to stop this interaction. > > YES, YOU ARE RIGHT. > > >>>>I have seen the 'Eskain Kundli " and truly speaking I could not > > understand the contents of the kundli.<<<<<< > > This kundli was devised to cover all astrological principles so that > > their may not be any possibility to get some escape route from any > > final result But even despite this that is all sort of pathological > > examination ie. Blood test, xray, scan and so on. there is not a > true > > result. You have to read my original book " Jyotish kitna sahi kitna > > galat " for knowing in detail. Though hints have been given in the > > horoscope it self. > > I DONT REQUIRE YOU BOOK NOW. PRESENTLY I AM STUDYING MORE IMPORTANT > > SYSTEM. > > REGARDING YOUR KUNDLI ,IN MY OPINION, IN FACT WHAT I FEEL IS THAT > > AFTER 35 YEARS OF YOUR STUDY, YOU HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO DECODE YOUR > > KUNDLI. I INVITE YOU TO STUDY THIS SYSTEM FOR 3 YEARS SO, YOU WILL > > FIND ALL THE ANSWERS. > > >>>>>> you have a research based mind and Lalkitab requires > > such types of person to explore it. It is welcome step if you start > > studying this system and bring your research out.>>>>>>> > > I have already gone through LK. But mother of all sort of > > predictive / remedial measure is planetary astrology. Other branches > > have adopted some portion of planetary astrology. Yes I am ready to > > research in any direction, because I am totally open minded but > > there must be some logical reasoning where I could move. If you will > > go through my book and find some point where I must move then I am > > ready to move. > > NO YOU HAVE NOT GONE THROUGH THIS BOOK. YOU MAY HAVE GONE > TRANSLATED > > MATERIALS WHICH DEPICTS MORE WRONG THAN RIGHT.THESE TRANSLATED > > MATERIALS ARE INCOMPLETE, WRONG AND ARE WRONGLY TRANSLATED. WE > HAVE > > TO PUT SOME OF THE BEST TRANSLATED MATERIAL FREE OF CHARGE ON NET. > > THIS MATERIAL STILL NOT FULLY CORRECT BUT IS MORE THAN 70% NEAR TO > > CORRECT. YOU CAN REFER TO THAT MATERIAL FOR FLAVOUR. YOU MAY FIND > IT > > UNIQUE. AS YOU READ THE BOOK YOU WILL FIND THE LOGIC. WRITER HAS > NOT > > HIDE NAY THING WHICH CAME TO HIS MIND. THESE ARE VERY INTERESTING > AND > > GOOD BOOKS TO STUDY PREFERABLY IF YOU KNOW URDU YOU READ > > ORIGINALS.THESE ARE PUT ONLINE INTO THE WEB FOR READING. WE ALSO > > PROVIDE FREE CD OF THESE BOOKS. > > Dear Sanat Ji, Presently It will not be possible for me to discuss > > this matter any further. we may discuss it on some other time when > > discussion on LK system ends. > > I consider you an intelligent and unorthodox student of astrology. > I > > wish you read this system and write books of your findings. > > Best regards > > Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 Sanat ji, it is not separation but amalgamation & complimentation. remeber it is samudrik oceanic. if you have read lalkitab plz read the introduction of elements in the first few pages only, there u will find the relationship between planets , objects with logics. although u claim to be well versed in LK but let me rtemind u that in LK system planatary position can be such that rahu ketu can vary from 180 degree axis. about taking aries as lagan it is relatyed to kaal pursh kundali. hope u understand that. u replied in detail but forgot my point in the earlier mail aboutr correcting life style. u find it easy to ignore it and come to pleasing of planets by totakas. please read it again. since u have a data based appraoch. any answer why 1percent of world population earns 96 percent income. UK and USA but whole of the west regards Eastern mystical and spiritual knowledge as superior, so publishing from that country which lived in primitaive stage when india china were at the pinnacle of civilization is no certificate of merit as far as a book on astrology is concerned. kulbir On 1/26/08, sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain wrote: Dear Kulbir Ji,Namaskar,Thanks for your comments on my mail to you and to other members of the forum.>>>>>>>>>>2.lalkitab author also started with your objective only when he didn't get results with astronomy based astrology he combined astronomical astrology with palmistry with vaastu with karmic theory and termed it as samudrik or oceanic knowledge. BUT HE HAD A POSITIVE OUTLOOK. there lies the difference.<<<<<<<<< At one end you are saying that >>>>>he didn't get results with astronomy based astrology<<<<<< and on ht other end neither he (writer of LK) nor you are clarifying as to how you (LK) have socalled correctly concluded that such and such part of astrological principles are right and rest is not correct which may be opted from other branch like palmistry etc. This was my questions raised in my first mail which is still pending and we all are beating the bush. >>>>>3. nothing can be discussed about lalkitab principles until and unless u genunely study or atleast try to study the subject.<<<<<<<<How you can say that I have not studied it. I have very well studied it and know that how LK horoscope is drafted and how they follow the astrological principles of lordship, aspect, friendship etc. . I have raised such questions in my first mail. Thus until you come forward as to how these formula were formulated and LK writer has verified that formulation is right till then what is the sense in following some totka without knowing the relation between cause and effect. If you don't have answers then either you read my book or else find out the answer for fruitfull interaction. >>>>>>4. we have read many books like yours in our initial days so please excuse us from reading ur book. instead u read lalkitab.<<<<<<OK, then why are you not answering my basis questions and throwing the boll here and there.>>>>>>5. about placement of planets i have already told you the concept of tewe ki darusti but you seem to be not intersted and only rest on your personal granth.<<<<<<<<< There is no system in LK by which you can correct any astronomical data except some correction based on some incidents and by this you can shift any planet to any sign without support of astronomical data, as is being done by fixing all horoscope with Aries sign as ascendant. So there is no question of personal, as it is very much data based information.>>>>>>>>> if your book had been so valuable it would have already been a best seller and afforded you a noble prize for saving society. sadly that is not the case and you alone are blowing your own trumpet. <<<<<<<<Whether book is valuable or not or best seller or not etc. is not my concern because it is the responsibility of publisher. If first book is not worthwhile then no publisher would have been jumped to publish in English and dealers of USA /UK may not involve in marketing it. >>>>TARIIF WAH HOTI HAI JO DUNIYA KARE NA KI APNE MUNH MIAN MITHU BANANE SE.<<<<<<<<Again you are putting some words in my mouth. I have never commented any thing about my book except the content. Because I know the comments of readers. But I will not share it because they actually it will be praising myself. So left if and either answer the questions raised or try to find out if you can. >>>>>>>6.ABOUT FAMILY KNITTING again symbolism plays an important part and unfortunately you don't know anything about it.<<<<<<How a planet situated miles away will be pleased with your symbols, which you have yourself decided without asking the planet, What a fun. >>>>>>7. in the end my last advise if you wanta discussion pick up LK. write down your apprehensions. we shall try to answer it.<<<<<<<Appreciation has no answer. Only question have answers. You have no answer then what I can do.>>>>>8. we love people like you because you prompt us to research more and find new treasures of wisdom.<<<<<<<Thanks, and go ahead to find the answers >>>>>>by the way AIDS= astrology is DEVELOPING society and not DAMAGING society.<<<<<<<<IS IT SO, You are developing the society by throwing the revadi, coal, coins in flowing water. Actually you are not only damaging the society but infusing a complex by which every body will like to throw some symbol without exerting and doing hard work with self confidence. ThanksYours truly,SanatSanatkumar_jain , " kulbirbains " <kulbirbainz wrote:>> Sanat ji; > 1.Nirmal ji is moderator of this group and duty bound to answer all > genuine querries. it is his commitment to us. so there is no problem > on that account.> 2.lalkitab author also started with your objective only when he > didn't get results with astronomy based astrology he combined > astronomical astrology with palmistry with vaastu with karmic theory > and termed it as samudrik or oceanic knowledge. BUT HE HAD A > POSITIVE OUTLOOK. there lies the difference.> 3. nothing can be discussed about lalkitab principles until and > unless u genunely study or atleast try to study the subject. > 4. we have read many books like yours in our initial days so please > excuse us from reading ur book. instead u read lalkitab.> 5. about placement of planets i have already told you the concept of > tewe ki darusti but you seem to be not intersted and only rest on > your personal granth. if your book had been so valuable it would > have already been a best seller and afforded you a noble prize for > saving society. sadly that is not the case and you alone are blowing > your own trumpet. TARIIF WAH HOTI HAI JO DUNIYA KARE NA KI APNE MUNH > MIAN MITHU BANANE SE.> 6.ABOUT FAMILY KNITTING again symbolism plays an important part and > unfortunately you don't know anything about it.> 7. in the end my last advise if you wanta discussion pick up LK. > write down your apprehensions. we shall try to answer it.> 8. we love people like you because you prompt us to research more > and find new treasures of wisdom.> kulbir> > , " sanat2221 " > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:> >> > Astrology a science or myth> > > > Dear Bhardwaj Ji,> > Namaskar,> > Thanks for your comments. > > I am starting from the last line. > > >>>>>>> I beg pardon if any of my above comments be felt offensive > by > > you. <<<<<<<<> > > > Rest assured I will never felt anything offensive because I have > > entered in your forum with opposite view hence I am prepared for > any > > wordings. But I am sorry to create problem by opposing your stand > in > > your forum. So I must beg pardon for all of my comments. But you > are > > always free to stop answering. But if we have some opposite views > it > > does not mean that I have any personal enmity. I hope you will > agree. > > Let us move further with our views. Though you have left many > points > > untouched from my 1st and 2nd mail, but it is always your right to > > answer on some points and left others. But I will try to answer > your > > points. Sorry for any adverse comments. > > > > >>>>>>when I completed my graduation(Rishi) in astrology course in > > the institute.<<<<<<<> > This is the main problem which is not allowing you to review whole > > situation with new angle. Though these points came to your mind > > before completing the course but you have not clarified those > points > > during the completion of course. > > > > >>>>>>…….We term these astrologers as 'Postmortem> > Astrologers',>>>>>>>>> > Good comment.> > >>>>>>> ………It means that we should keep apart what we read so far > in > > other system of astrology.<<<<<<<<> > Yes, but if you take some thing from other branch then either you > > must know about it or may be prepared to answer the questions > raised. > > Thus if you are leaving rashi / nachatra then why are you (You > means > > LK. In future too take it as LK) using Aries sign in ascendant, > and > > how you have worked out that Saturn / mars etc are evil planets, > and > > how you have worked out that so and so planet can be befooled by > so > > and so colour. Actually all this tradition have been borrowed from > > planetary astrology. > > > > >>>>>>>Regarding other queries of eclipse etc,it is a chapter of > > astronomy and every answer lies there. <<<<<<<<> > > > Why astronomy, now you are using science. Eclipse etc were part of > > astrology and they are still part of astrology. Though scientist > > classified it as astronomy. Let them. But you can answer it under > > astrology and clarify as to why Rahu was 11/12 degrees away from > the > > point of eclipse and so on. Otherwise placement of Rahu and remedy > by > > LK would not be wrong. Because Rahu may not be there, where you > are > > placing and treating him. > > > > >>>>>>> what our ancient edicts say about it, I> > cannot comment upon it as I do not know Sanskrit and I have not > read> > any original books because of lack of Sanskrit knowledge. <<<<<<<< > > It has nothing to do as to whether you know Sanskrit or not. > Because > > when you are following some thing of sages it means you think that > > they are correct hence you must be prepared to answer any querry > or > > read further because you are following something only after > reading > > translation so what is the harm in answering after reading some > > further translation.> > > > >>>>>Terming any research wrong on the basis of any translated > > material is not justified as far as me is concerned. <<<<<<<<> > Then how terming any translated material as right may be justified.> > > > >>>>>>>It is for the user to accept or reject as per there > > experiences. <<<<<> > No, it is not the experience by which some one goes to any pathy. > > Because experience here is not personal but social. But if some > one > > say that you are going to wrong pathy then one must rethink. In > the > > same way when scientist say that > > >>>>>planets as dead dudes <<<<<> > then why don't you rethink and come out with some solid scientific > > proof. Do you believe the concept of solar system or you believe > that > > Earth is stationary and flat and so on……………..> > > > >>>>>>We consider each and every surroundings whether living or> > nonliving, stationery or movable has an effect on human behavior. > > <<<<<<> > Where it is written in any scripture. Scientifically, a Car > standing > > nearby you may have more gravitational effect then a planet.> > > > >>>>>It may be your own experience that these planets do not > effect > > any body. This debate continue to exist as long as the scientists > > don't make human being in laboratory and keep the atma or soul in > > their control. <<<<<<<<< > > These two points (soul and planets) are totally not linked with > each > > other. And continue to keep watch scientific research. Are they > not > > creating human beings in test tube and so on again we will left > our > > main point> > > > > > >>>>>>As per Lalkitab theory if one consider-Sun as his own soul & > > body, the father/dada as -Brihaspati(Guru), Moon as mother or > mother > > like , Mercury as sister,daughter or Bhua, Mars as Brother, > Shukkar > > as Wife or husband, Saturn as Chacha, rahu as Sasur, Ketu as Son, > he > > is not doing any sin. This will not harm the society, it will > rather > > help to knit well the harmony in the families.>>>>>>> > No, it is not going to knit well the family. If instead of > thinking > > Sukra as your wife and pleasing that planet, It would be much > better > > if you try to please your wife. Likewise you can try to please > > yourself (instead of Sun), Teacher, father (instead of Brihspati) > and > > so on. Thus family will be well knit. And more over how a > planetary > > body of thousands/laks km in diameter is going to locate your > curd, > > milk, oil and so on and will amend himself by changing his effect > so > > that it may left you and grab your neighbour. > > > > > > >>>>>>…. therefore it is a waste of time to> > keep on discussing such useless data.>>>>>>>>> > > > It is your right to stop this interaction. > > > > >>>>I have seen the 'Eskain Kundli " and truly speaking I could not> > understand the contents of the kundli.<<<<<<> > This kundli was devised to cover all astrological principles so > that > > their may not be any possibility to get some escape route from any > > final result But even despite this that is all sort of > pathological > > examination ie. Blood test, xray, scan and so on. there is not a > true > > result. You have to read my original book " Jyotish kitna sahi > kitna > > galat " for knowing in detail. Though hints have been given in the > > horoscope it self. > > > > >>>>>> you have a research based mind and Lalkitab requires> > such types of person to explore it. It is welcome step if you start> > studying this system and bring your research out.>>>>>>> > > I have already gone through LK. But mother of all sort of > > predictive / remedial measure is planetary astrology. Other > branches > > have adopted some portion of planetary astrology. Yes I am ready > to > > research in any direction, because I am totally open minded but > > there must be some logical reasoning where I could move. If you > will > > go through my book and find some point where I must move then I am > > ready to move. > > > > Best Regards> > Heartly thanks for your comments.> > Yours truly,> > > > > > Sanat> > > > > > , " Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj " > > <nirbhar@> wrote: > > >> > > Dear Sanat Ji,> > > Almost all the points raised by you, came to my mind when I > > completed> > > my graduation(Rishi) in astrology course in the institute. You > have> > > rightly said that a new breed of astrologer is emerging > strongly, > > who> > > by hook and crook justify any event by putting any of the the > > several > > > rules of astrology. We term these astrologers as 'Postmortem> > > Astrologers', specialist of doing > > > postmortem of an event.> > > Let us come to your queries. I give following quotes from > lalKitab> > > " Rashi Chhodi Nakshatra Bhulaya " > > > Means, in this system of astrology Nakshatra and rashis are> > > required.This means all navansha dashaansha etc, digbal, > shadbala,> > > lagnesh, astmesh etc not required.Even Rahu and ketu can come in > a> > > single house which is not in traditional system of astrology. It > > means > > > that we should keep apart what we read so far in other system of> > > astrology.> > > > > > Regarding other queries of eclipse etc,it is a chapter of > astronomy > > > and every answer lies there. what our ancient edicts say about > it, I> > > cannot comment upon it as I do not know Sanskrit and I have not > read> > > any original books because of lack of Sanskrit knowledge. > Terming > > any> > > research wrong on the basis of any translated material is not> > > justified as far as me is concerned. Since you have read the > > original> > > material you might be saying right. > > > > > > Regarding correcting the planet effect by remedial measures, > whether> > > possible or not I will not go in for this debate like never > ending> > > story . Ayurvedas rejcts Allopathy, allopathic discard ayurveda,> > > Homoeopathy has its own rules. It is for the user to accept or > > reject> > > as per there experiences. Similarly in the astrological concepts > it > > is > > > up to the students/user/astrologers to term it as right or wrong> > > depending upon their experiences. You term planets as dead dudes > but> > > we dont.We consider each and every surroundings whether living or> > > nonliving, stationery or movable has an effect on human > behavior. It> > > may be your own experience that these planets do not effect any > > body. > > > This debate continue to exist as long as the scientists don't > make > > > human being in laboratory and keep the atma or soul in their > > control. > > > So till then it is free to everybody to consider what he thinks > as > > right. > > > As per Lalkitab theory if one consider-Sun as his own soul & > body, > > the> > > father/dada as -Brihaspati(Guru), Moon as mother or mother like ,> > > Mercury as sister,daughter or Bhua, Mars as Brother, Shukkar as > Wife> > > or husband, Saturn as Chacha, rahu as Sasur, Ketu as Son, he is > not> > > doing any sin. This will not harm the society, it will rather > help > > to> > > knit well the harmony in the families. > > > You may term it as shrugging of your queries, but since we don't > use> > > this type of data in these studies therefore it is a waste of > time > > to> > > keep on discussing such useless data. > > > > > > I have seen the 'Eskain Kundli " and truly speaking I could not> > > understand the contents of the kundli. Just put the planetary> > > positions in house, it is suffice. > > > Dear Sanat Ji, you have a research based mind and Lalkitab > requires> > > such types of person to explore it. It is welcome step if you > start> > > studying this system and bring your research out. > > > I beg pardon if any of my above comments be felt offensive by > you. > > > Best Regards> > > Nirmal> > > , " sanat2221 " > > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Astrology a science or myth> > > > > > > > Dear Bhardwaj Ji,> > > > Namaskar, > > > > Thanks for your comments and suggestion of putting the book on > > net. > > > > But it cannot be done because now it will be against copyright > of > > > > publisher and Hindi book " Jyotish Kitna Sahi Kitna galat " has > > > > original research based 325 pages, which is not a small book.> > > > > > > > >>>>> In my opinion,Most of your querries in your letter have > > simple > > > > answers <<<<<<<<<> > > > > > > > It may be, but if you have these simple answers then I am > > waiting > > > > for that, and if you have these logical answers in view of > the > > then > > > > primitive knowledge then you may also know that these > > astrological > > > > principles are not logical in view of modern knowledge, which > is > > > > quite against the primitive concept.> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>You have not given your views about these > > questions.<<<<<<<< > > > > > > > > It is not correct, I have given a hint for every question and > for > > > > detail analysis and procedure adopted to formulate all > > astrological > > > > principles you have to go through the book " Jyotish Kitna Sahi > > Kitna > > > > galat " .> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>discuss step by step in the group if you have any > doubts > > about > > > > the astrological studies.<<<<<<<> > > > > > > > I have already raised many points or doubts in astrological > > > > principles now it is your turn to answer, yes, you can answer > > step by > > > > step.> > > > > > > > >>>>>>Presently we are discussing the LalKitab > > > > system.If you have any doubts regarding this system to > > discuss<<<<<<<> > > > > > > > The remedies of LK is for correcting effect of planets. When I > am > > > > raising questions against astrology it-self then it is obvious > > that > > > > LK is being questioned. Life is not so easy which can be > moulded > > > > (because we have to mould others life for getting some thing > for > > our > > > > life) by some curd, almond, rise, ice, oil etc. If you change > the > > > > course of anyone's life with socalled remedies then where is > the > > > > prediction which is fixed because birth horoscope and transit > of > > the > > > > planets and their effect as worked out after applying the > > > > astrological principles are fixed. And if you change some > effect > > (as > > > > you claim) then it will generate cascading effect, which in > turn > > will > > > > change the future of every one not alone the individual who > is > > > > carrying out the remedy.> > > > > > > > So long every one is in the grip of Saturn from both ends > (black > > > > hair and footwear) with Mars in between (tounge and blood) > you > > can > > > > not cure planets. Thus you may start to suggest for shaving > the > > head > > > > of women without footwear and spilt the tounge and try to > remove > > the > > > > blood only then some one can be cured from the ill effect of > > > > planets. IS IT POSSIBLE ???> > > > > > > > We Indians are very simple with little ambitions and do not > want > > to > > > > take pains and always try to get some shortcut by this way or > > that > > > > way. BUT THERE IS NO SHORTCUT OF SUCCESS IN LIFE. However, > > > > individual with weak mental status may be lured to correct > every > > odd > > > > of the life with some curd or almond. If it would have been > so > > > > simple then there is no need of any school, hospital and law > > etc. > > > > because every thing would have achieved with some remedy > either > > > > competition or business or illness and so on. Thus actually by > > > > supporting such concept we are underestimating the labour of > > sincere > > > > hard working individuals.> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>PS. Without jumping in the Sea one cannot explore its > > > > richness.<<<<<<< > > > > How you can say so when I am studying astrology since last 35 > > years > > > > and try to conclude any one correct principle. If you have any > > one > > > > correct principle then Please let me know. I am also > uploading > > a > > > > file " Eskain Kundali " in your file section by which you can > see > > > > that I myself developed and drawn a horoscope covering all > sort > > of > > > > astrological principles for concluding any correct prediction > > with > > > > so many self developed> > > > softwares.> > > > > > > > Heartly thanks for your comments.> > > > Hope now you will go through my entire blog. Hope to hear soon.> > > > Yours truly,> > > > > > > > > > > > Sanat> > > > Readers may write on my email Sanatkumar_jain@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj " > > > > <nirbhar@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Sanat,> > > > > your document has already been in the group file section. > You > > have > > > > > raised some crucials issues. It would be better if you put > your > > > > book > > > > > free of cost on net, so that your ideas reach each and every > > > > person. > > > > > In my opinion,Most of your querries in your letter have > simple > > > > > answers.You have not given your views about these > > questions.Anyhow > > > > we > > > > > assure you that these will be taken up in future and You are > > > > welcome > > > > > to discuss step by step in the group if you have any doubts > > about > > > > the > > > > > astrological studies. But Presently we are discussing the > > LalKitab > > > > > system.If you have any doubts regarding this system to > > discuss,you > > > > > are welcome.> > > > > Regards> > > > > Nirmal Kumar > > > > > Moderator> > > > > PS. Without jumping in the Sea one cannot explore its > richness.> > > > > > > > > > , > > > > > " sanat2221 " <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Will you please like to ponder and instead of sticking to > > some > > > > > > misconcept regarding astrology on which you have not > studied > > in > > > > > depth > > > > > > but you only have faith, because you have been informed > like > > > > this. > > > > > So > > > > > > come out and think with open mind and decide yourself as > to > > > > whether > > > > > > astrology is scientific or is being given coverup of > science > > due > > > > to > > > > > > some vested interest. I do not want to hurt the sentiments > of > > > > > > astrologers or who are in support of astrology, but I only > > want > > > > to > > > > > > emphasise that if you think that it is a science then let > us > > > > > examine > > > > > > it and then there will be no question of hurting, because > you > > > > have > > > > > > not formulated the principles. But unfortunately you are > > standing > > > > > in > > > > > > support of it like a lawyer only due to faith (which has > been > > > > > > infused) and want to conclude like a judge that astrology > is > > a > > > > > > science without knowing the story of other side. I can > > understand > > > > > the > > > > > > problem of astrologer that they will loose their business > but > > if > > > > > you > > > > > > are a client then you must have right to know the truth or > > call > > > > an > > > > > > astrologer in the consumer forum.> > > > > > > > > > > > At the time of formulating the astrological principles in > > early > > > > > > Primitive age, it was the concept that every living being > has > > > > > > capacity to move, whereas lifeless thing cannot move. This > > > > > religious > > > > > > philosophy leads sages to classify all so-called planet > (Sun, > > > > Moon, > > > > > > Mars etc.) as super living being (Deities). In those days > > only > > > > > sages > > > > > > had social sanction to study religious scriptures. Thus > after > > > > > > prolonged observation of the sky they developed the skill > to > > > > > predict > > > > > > solar and lunar eclipse, which was the result of so-called > > > > grabbing > > > > > > the Sun and Moon by imaginary shadow planets Rahu and Ketu.> > > > > > They were also able to predict the timing of eclipse and > its > > > > > > duration. They have devised an ingenious way to offer > > donations > > > > > etc. > > > > > > to get them free from the clutches of Rahu and Ketu, which > is > > > > still > > > > > > being followed. It was also religious concept that fate of > > > > > everybody > > > > > > is pre-decided according to their deeds. Thus in this > > situation, > > > > it > > > > > > was common wisdom as to when sages were able to predict > the > > fate > > > > of > > > > > > deities like Sun and Moon then why they could not predict > the > > > > fate > > > > > of > > > > > > King and so on. Thus procedure was devised to formulate > > various > > > > > > astrological principles on the basis of the then knowledge > of > > > > sages > > > > > > based on scriptures and their celestial observation. These > > > > > principles > > > > > > were the key factors for deciding the fate. > > > > > > > > > > > > Procedure adopted to formulate these principles was never > > > > > percolated > > > > > > in the Indian society due to illiteracy and hard barrier > to > > learn > > > > > > such knowledge by other castes. Subsequently these > principles > > > > were > > > > > > spread to other civilisation and later on developed as > > Western > > > > > system.> > > > > > What is happening nowadays that there are two groups. One > > group > > > > > > belongs to astrologers who always try to support astrology > > due to > > > > > > their business considerations (these astrologers always > try > > to > > > > fit > > > > > > past event very precisely within some astrological > principle > > > > within > > > > > a > > > > > > capsule of ved, religion, astronomy (eclipse etc.) and > faith > > > > etc., > > > > > > but they are unable to predict any future event. Because > > > > > astrological > > > > > > principles lead to diverse predictions and that too > > diabolical > > > > > > opposite to each other. If by chance a prediction (in > fluke) > > may > > > > > come > > > > > > true then they start to harp on the same prediction and > start > > > > self > > > > > > praising instead of applying the same socalled principle > on > > other > > > > > > horoscopes to see their failure. Thus astrologer can only > > > > mislead, > > > > > > create confusion, try to cure `planets' and so on. You can > > find > > > > > that > > > > > > only this is going on in every forum), whereas other group > > (say > > > > > > scientist) try to raise some logical questions against > > astrology. > > > > > But > > > > > > none of them have ever tried to investigate as to what was > > the > > > > > level > > > > > > of information of sages about the Universe, who developed > > > > > > astrological principles in primitive age and what > procedure > > was > > > > > > adopted to formulate various principles relating to > Lordship, > > > > > > Friendship-enmity, Exalted-debilitated, Aspect, > Vinshottary > > > > > > periodicity etc. If we analyse whole set of principles > then > > > > > following > > > > > > questions may be raised (basis of formulation is given in > > > > subpara).> > > > > > > > > > > > 1 What procedure was adopted to allot twelve signs among > > seven > > > > > > planets (as Mars is lord of Aries, Scorpio etc.) ?> > > > > > > > > > > > It was based on the concept that Sun is just above the > > stationary > > > > > > Earth and Moon is above the Sun and so on……….> > > > > > > > > > > > 2 What procedure was adopted to decide that there is > enmity > > and > > > > > > friendship between some planets (as Sun and Saturn are > enemy > > of > > > > > each > > > > > > other) ? > > > > > > Based on the Indian myth of fight between deities and > demons > > over > > > > > > nector after sea-churning………..> > > > > > 3 What procedure was adopted to decide various aspect > (full, > > > > > quarter > > > > > > to full, half and quarter), (as planets have full aspect > on > > > > seventh > > > > > > house) ? > > > > > > Based on the position of army in the battle field………..> > > > > > > > > > > > 4 What procedure was adopted to decide that planets are > > exalted > > > > and > > > > > > debilitated at some degree (as Sun is exalted at 10 deg. > of > > Aries > > > > > > sign) ?> > > > > > Based on planetary situation linked with Sun, when > duration > > of > > > > the > > > > > > day is more in comparison to night……> > > > > > 5 What procedure was adopted to decide that most powerful > and > > hub > > > > > of > > > > > > our solar system, Sun has 6 years vinshottary dasha > whereas > > Venus > > > > > (a > > > > > > small planet) has 20 years ? > > > > > > Based on two triangles derived after working out the > effect > > of > > > > > > Universe on the basis of lord and exalted…….> > > > > > 6 What procedure was adopted to allot various > constellations > > > > > between > > > > > > nine planets with different vinshottary dasha ?> > > > > > > > > > > > Kratica was first constellation in Indian scriptures………. > > > > > > > > > > > > 7 What procedure was adopted to decide order of days of a > > week > > > > > > (Sunday, Monday etc.) ?> > > > > > Based on distribution of 60 Ghati (Ghat = pitcher) in the > > > > structure > > > > > > of Universe where Sun is nearer and Moon is far away…..> > > > > > > > > > > > 8 What procedure was adopted to decide fixed retrograde > > motion of > > > > > > Rahu Ketu (3-11 minute-second per day)?> > > > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse…..> > > > > > 9 What procedure was adopted to decide that Rahu, Ketu are > > 180 > > > > deg. > > > > > > apart?> > > > > > On the basis of recurrence of eclipse………..> > > > > > 10 What procedure was adopted to decide timings of > eclipse ?> > > > > > Repetition of eclipse after fixed constellation month……….> > > > > > > > > > > > Thus there may be endless questions, with a final question > as > > to > > > > > > whether present form of astrology is correct? If some one > > gave > > > > > > answers to these questions then he will realise that > entire > > > > > > astrological principles are totally based on wrong concept > of > > > > > > Universe.> > > > > > > > > > > > Everybody may agree that every research is based on the > then > > > > > > knowledge. In the same way, when astrology was developed > by > > sage > > > > > > Parashar etc. At that time it was believed that Earth is > in > > the > > > > > > centre of the Universe and stationary (it is also believed > in > > all > > > > > > religions). Beside this it was also believed (you may read > > any > > > > old > > > > > > scriptures) that Sun is nearer from the Earth, whereas > Moon > > is > > > > > beyond > > > > > > Sun. All constellations are situated in between Mercury > and > > Moon. > > > > > > You may be surprised to know that all astrological > principles > > are > > > > > > actually fabricated around this concept. I my-self > studying > > > > > astrology > > > > > > since last 35 years and developed softwares to conclude > > correct > > > > > > prediction. But if it is true at one time then same > > combination > > > > is > > > > > > not true in other case. It leads me to think afresh > logically > > and > > > > > > systematically over this subject and I find that Primitive > > > > concept > > > > > > (when astrology was developed) requires full overhauling > in > > view > > > > of > > > > > > modern scientific astronomy, according to which primitive > > concept > > > > > of > > > > > > Universe (basis of astrology) was totally changed.> > > > > > After lot of research I wrote an original book on > astrology > > > > > " Jyotish -> > > > > > Kitna sahi kitna galat " in Hindi (330 pages). This book > > contains > > > > > the > > > > > > detailed procedure adopted to formulate these principles > on > > the > > > > > basis > > > > > > of the then knowledge about the Universe, which leads our > > sages > > > > to > > > > > > formulate these principles. This book was also published > in > > > > English > > > > > > with the title " Astrology a science or myth " (450 pages). > You > > can > > > > > > realize that this is revolutionary book and will change > the > > face > > > > of > > > > > > predictive astrology in due course. If you interested to > know > > > > more > > > > > > about the book or description of various chapters then you > > may > > > > send > > > > > > email to me. The book is being marketed in USA /UK etc. > > > > > > Refer http://www.bokklubben.no/samboweb/produkt.do? > > > > produktID=1759836> > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.thebookplace.com/bookplace/results-asp? > AUB=sanat%> > > > 20kumar%> > > > > > 20jain & TAG= & CID=> > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.aggarwaloverseas.com/booksdetail.aspx? > > > > > > ProductID=64211 & catID=AGO010 & detail=t> > > > > > > > > > > > At that time our sages were neither aware of Uranus, > Neptune > > nor > > > > > they > > > > > > were aware that solar and lunar eclipses occurred due to > > presence > > > > > of > > > > > > Moon and shadow of Earth. That's why they have developed > the > > > > > concept > > > > > > of Rahu and Ketu with retrograde motion of 3'11 " . It was > > > > mentioned > > > > > in > > > > > > the Grahlaghav that eclipse occurred when Rahu/Ketu came > > within > > > > 14 > > > > > > degree on Amavasya (dark night) or Puranmashi (full Moon). > > But > > > > > nobody > > > > > > will be able to answer that why there was no lunar eclipse > > when > > > > > Sun, > > > > > > Moon and Rahu were at 203.01, 23.01 and 34.43 degree > > respectively > > > > > on > > > > > > 08-11-1984 (Rahu was within 11.42 degree) or when Sun, > Moon > > and > > > > > Ketu > > > > > > were at 319.74, 139.74 and 150.26 degree respectively on > 03-> > 03-> > > > 1988 > > > > > ( > > > > > > Ketu was within 10.52 degree). Likewise I find that Solar > > > > eclipses > > > > > > occurred even when difference between Moon and Rahu was > more > > then > > > > > > 14°. Sun and Moon were at 94.24 deg., whereas Rahu was at > > 79.04 > > > > > deg. > > > > > > on 21-07-1982 (Rahu was 15.20 deg. away). Sun and Moon > were > > at > > > > > 76.49 > > > > > > deg., whereas Rahu was at 91.93 deg. on 02-07-2000 (Rahu > was > > > > 15.14 > > > > > > deg. away). > > > > > > To give a modern scientific colour to the astrology, you > will > > > > also > > > > > > find in many modern astrological books that eclipse > occurred > > at > > > > the > > > > > > intersection point of orbit of the Sun and Moon (though it > > was > > > > not > > > > > > known to our sages and Rahu Ketu were created on the basis > of > > > > > myth). > > > > > > Thus it is clear that at the time of full solar eclipse, > when > > > > Moon > > > > > > happens to be just over the Sun than Rahu must also be > there. > > But > > > > > As > > > > > > per almanac Ketu was shown at 194 and 177 degree on 12-11-> > 1985 > > > > and > > > > > 3- > > > > > > 10-1986 (refer any almanac) respectively when there were > full > > > > solar > > > > > > eclipse and position of Sun/Moon were at 206 and 166 > degree > > > > > > respectively. You will agree that when there were full > solar > > > > > eclipses > > > > > > then on these dates either Rahu or Ketu must be at 206 and > > 166 > > > > > degree > > > > > > respectively, because only then full solar eclipse may > > possible. > > > > > > Whereas Ketu was being shown at 194 and 177 degrees in > > almanac. > > > > > Thus > > > > > > there was clear mistake of about 12 and 11 degrees > > respectively. > > > > > All > > > > > > horoscopes are defective in this light and due to this > > > > fundamental > > > > > > positional variation, prediction is also effected. If you > > want > > > > then > > > > > I > > > > > > can give many more examples and very simple method of > > detecting > > > > > them.> > > > > > I fully support that astrology (predictive) is not a > science > > but > > > > in > > > > > > primitive age predictive astrology was a mixture of > astronomy > > + > > > > > > psychology + faith. Because astronomy is a science, > > psychology > > > > > > (recently discovered and it was not known in primitive > age) > > > > played > > > > > an > > > > > > important role in handling a person by the astrologer due > to > > > > > immense > > > > > > faith over astrology+astrologer hence predictive astrology > > > > appears > > > > > to > > > > > > be correct due to combined effect of all three. You will > also > > > > agree > > > > > > with the above observation after going through my original > > > > > > revolutionary research. Because if everything is pre-> decided > > as > > > > was > > > > > > contention of sages then why we may take pains, why we may > > try to > > > > > do > > > > > > some thing, because every thing will take place according > to > > pre-> > > > > > written destiny. Secondly, there is no question of > modifying > > that > > > > > pre-> > > > > > written destiny, because if we try to change only our > fate, > > even > > > > > then > > > > > > all attached happening will automatically change creating > a > > > > > cascading > > > > > > effect, which in turn will change the pre-written fate of > > every > > > > > > person. In another case, if destiny is not pre-written or > say > > pre-> > > > > > defined than it is not possible to detect it. Because when > > every > > > > > Tom, > > > > > > Dick and Harry are changing their destiny due to worship, > > good > > > > deed > > > > > > etc. then destiny of every one will continue remain under > > change. > > > > > You > > > > > > will agree that astrology is totally based on mathematical > > > > > > calculation regarding planets, whose transit is fixed and > can > > > > never > > > > > > and never be altered. Now when transit or birth chart > cannot > > be > > > > > > altered it means result of calculation or say prediction > is > > also > > > > > > fixed. Then how one may change his destiny (if it is ever > > > > > prewritten) > > > > > > by adopting some means like offering, ring, vastu etc. > > because in > > > > > > that case, if you like to say, then future events will be > > altered > > > > > but > > > > > > how a calculation of planetary transit or linked > prediction > > can > > > > be > > > > > > changed, which is fixed due to birth chart or fixed > transit > > of > > > > > > planets? > > > > > > > > > > > > Those who think that astrology is a science may be rest > > assured > > > > > that > > > > > > actually predictive astrology is not a science at all. > Only > > > > > astronomy > > > > > > and psychology (discovered only in last 200 years) were > used > > > > > > unknowingly by our sages for some prediction and it > appears > > > > > correct. > > > > > > Hence predictive astrology is bogus and astrology is a > myth. > > > > Still > > > > > if > > > > > > you have a faith on astrology then why don't you contact > The > > > > James > > > > > > Randi Educational Foundation who offeres a US $1000000 > prize > > to > > > > > > anyone who can demonstrate that astrology works. His e-> mail > > and > > > > > > website is jref@ and http://www.randi.org Because modern > > > > > > technologies like computer, TV, Newspaper etc. are being > used > > to > > > > > > spread this myth in the cover up of science with vested > > business > > > > > > interest. Hence it requires a logical approach to fight > this > > sort > > > > > of > > > > > > ignorance. My book has vital scientific information in > this > > > > regard > > > > > > and readers of the book are fully convinced that astrology > > > > > > (predictive) is bogus, because procedure adopted to > formulate > > > > > > principles was neither logical nor based on correct > > information > > > > of > > > > > > Universe, solar system.> > > > > > > > > > > > I will like to have your critical comments for further > > > > interaction > > > > > on > > > > > > my email sanatkumar_jain@ . It would be better to know > > > > > > the roots of astrology and facts, data behind it before > > falling > > > > in > > > > > > the trap and come forward to join hands because of AIDS > > > > (Astrology > > > > > Is > > > > > > Damaging Society).> > > > > > Sanat Kumar Jain> > > > > > Gwalior> > > > > > > > > > > > Reader may directly write to me on my email instead of > > creating > > > > > > problems to moderator> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.