Guest guest Posted April 24, 2005 Report Share Posted April 24, 2005 Dear Group, There appears to be some prevailing confusion about exactly what Exaltation and Debilitation actually mean in evaluation of a KP chart. So below is a brief overview of the planetary interactions, followed by my humble attempt at explaining the effects of exaltation and debilitation, and their usage in KP, according to my understanding of the basic and primary teachings of the KP system. What we know already is that a planet moving under the influence of his star lord, will act according to the dictates of that star lord. With that in mind, we are also well aware that the planet will predominately offer the results of the house in which the star lord is posited, in addition to the house(s) owned by the star lord. Then, the planet itself, offers the results of the house it occupies and the house(s) it owns. So basically each planet has a role to play, and both the star lord and the planet combine their influence to determine whether the event will be favorable or not. ( If unfamiliar with this concept, more examples of how a planet will act can be found in my article KP: How Does the Dasha Lord Function?) So what exactly does Exalted or Debilitated infer? Several indicators are simply "givens" in KP, and must not only be considered, but must also be both integrated and synthesized into your analysis before a final determination is made. But according to sizing up an event, only the house results are offered - so where does that leave the sign effects that the planet is placed in - such as the planet's exalted or debilitated status? Here is where much confusion seems prevalent in KP assessments- especially when a planet is badly placed in the 8th or 12th house, but simultaneously exalted in status. Or when a planet is in a debilitated state, but posited in the benefic 11th house? How do we assess these results? Exaltation and debilitation are "strength" and "weakness" indicators respectively, and therefore their specific job is to give us an idea of how much "muscle" (strength or weakness) the planet carries - within its environment - to carry out its function determined by its house placement. So if a planet is strong due to exaltation, but badly placed in the 12th, the planet does not change its role and become good for the 12th house, but rather the effects are that the planet will not hasten to quickly carry out the functions for his position in any given house, and will therefore quickly bring about loss (or other 12th house function) in a very timely manner. Why? Because he has the strength to act quickly and with no delay, and he is very comfortable where he is positioned in his exalted status. He works fast because he is in a happy and exalted state - caring not that he is working quickly to bring about less than fortunate events. He's just doing his job with the muscle provided to do it with. When the planet has established a set of results that need to be carried out due to his star level placement, exaltation does not absolve him of the adverse results that need to be carried out, and subsequently make the results pleasant. This is simply not the way exaltation and debilitation work, nor is it part of their role as "strength indicators" for a planet. The planets do not give contrary results due to their strength status. So, also, do we judge the effects of a planet posited in a good house but in the state of debilitation. This debilitated planet will still carry out the positive acts for the house in which he is posited, but his strength factor will not allow him to do so quickly or in a timely manner. So the result is that he will eventually bring the good effects about, but not in a timely manner or with speed under his wings. He only carries enough strength to respond to his mission in a slow and delayed manner because he is not happy being posited where he is and at the degree at which he is debilitated, but he has a job to do and will carry it out and do his job, but NOT in a manner contrary to what his position indicates - it will just be carried out at a snails pace. More Apparent "Strength" Confusion: Now the KP confusion I'm seeing frequently, and the catch to the exaltation/debilitation game is this...Exactly WHEN is a planet considered to be exalted or debilitated? Is is just by being posited in the respective signs of exaltation or debilitation - such as Jupiter is considered debilitated simply because he is posited in Capricorn? Or Venus is considered exalted just because she is posited in Pisces? The answer to this question is no! There are refinements to strengths and weaknesses that need to be addressed before blanket statements are made due to assessing these planetary strengths and weaknesses. For example, is Jupiter, when posited at 15 Cancer, considered to be in an exalted state? No! Why? Jupiter is exalted at 05 Cancer - not at 15 degrees Cancer. Orbs must be set in place and respected for the effects of exalted or debilitated status to be truly effective - sign positions alone are irrelevant when assessing planetary strengths. So to say that a planet is exalted or debilitated simply because it is posited in its sign of exaltation or debilitation is incorrect - the degrees of the sign placement are necessary to determine whether that planet is truly in an exalted or debilitated state. According to my understanding, the KP preferred orb allowance is 50' on either side of its exaltation or debilitation degree - (less than a degree). Below is a Table showing the exalted and debilitated placements. I sincerely hope this further clarifies the position of exaltation versus debilitation. (If the Table doesn't transmit, I have also uploaded this to my site at http://www.jupitersweb.com/kp_exaltation.debilitation%20revisited.htm (With reference to Navamsha positions, my take on this is that in KP, this varga has been used to further refine the strength of a planet). Planet Exalted Debilitated Sun 10 Degrees Aries 10 Degrees Libra Moon 03 Degrees Taurus 03 Degrees Scorpio Mars 28 Degrees Capricorn 28 Degrees Cancer Mercury 15 Degrees Virgo 15 Degrees Pisces Jupiter 05 Degrees Cancer 05 Degrees Capricorn Venus 27 Degrees Pisces 27 Degrees Virgo Saturn 20 Libra 20 Degrees Aries Rahu 20 Degrees Taurus 20 Degrees Scorpio Ketu 20 Degrees Scorpio 20 Degrees Taurus All the Best, Sandy Crowther http://www.jupitersweb.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2005 Report Share Posted April 24, 2005 Dear Sandy Crowther I fully agree with your views on Exaltation and Debilitation. I however do not recollect where the ORBs are specified. The Signs and Degrees are okay. Any refernce to orbs would help Sandy Crowther <sandycrowther wrote: Dear Group, There appears to be some prevailing confusion about exactly what Exaltation and Debilitation actually mean in evaluation of a KP chart. So below is a brief overview of the planetary interactions, followed by my humble attempt at explaining the effects of exaltation and debilitation, and their usage in KP, according to my understanding of the basic and primary teachings of the KP system. What we know already is that a planet moving under the influence of his star lord, will act according to the dictates of that star lord. With that in mind, we are also well aware that the planet will predominately offer the results of the house in which the star lord is posited, in addition to the house(s) owned by the star lord. Then, the planet itself, offers the results of the house it occupies and the house(s) it owns. So basically each planet has a role to play, and both the star lord and the planet combine their influence to determine whether the event will be favorable or not. ( If unfamiliar with this concept, more examples of how a planet will act can be found in my article KP: How Does the Dasha Lord Function?) So what exactly does Exalted or Debilitated infer? Several indicators are simply "givens" in KP, and must not only be considered, but must also be both integrated and synthesized into your analysis before a final determination is made. But according to sizing up an event, only the house results are offered - so where does that leave the sign effects that the planet is placed in - such as the planet's exalted or debilitated status? Here is where much confusion seems prevalent in KP assessments- especially when a planet is badly placed in the 8th or 12th house, but simultaneously exalted in status. Or when a planet is in a debilitated state, but posited in the benefic 11th house? How do we assess these results? Exaltation and debilitation are "strength" and "weakness" indicators respectively, and therefore their specific job is to give us an idea of how much "muscle" (strength or weakness) the planet carries - within its environment - to carry out its function determined by its house placement. So if a planet is strong due to exaltation, but badly placed in the 12th, the planet does not change its role and become good for the 12th house, but rather the effects are that the planet will not hasten to quickly carry out the functions for his position in any given house, and will therefore quickly bring about loss (or other 12th house function) in a very timely manner. Why? Because he has the strength to act quickly and with no delay, and he is very comfortable where he is positioned in his exalted status. He works fast because he is in a happy and exalted state - caring not that he is working quickly to bring about less than fortunate events. He's just doing his job with the muscle provided to do it with. When the planet has established a set of results that need to be carried out due to his star level placement, exaltation does not absolve him of the adverse results that need to be carried out, and subsequently make the results pleasant. This is simply not the way exaltation and debilitation work, nor is it part of their role as "strength indicators" for a planet. The planets do not give contrary results due to their strength status. So, also, do we judge the effects of a planet posited in a good house but in the state of debilitation. This debilitated planet will still carry out the positive acts for the house in which he is posited, but his strength factor will not allow him to do so quickly or in a timely manner. So the result is that he will eventually bring the good effects about, but not in a timely manner or with speed under his wings. He only carries enough strength to respond to his mission in a slow and delayed manner because he is not happy being posited where he is and at the degree at which he is debilitated, but he has a job to do and will carry it out and do his job, but NOT in a manner contrary to what his position indicates - it will just be carried out at a snails pace. More Apparent "Strength" Confusion: Now the KP confusion I'm seeing frequently, and the catch to the exaltation/debilitation game is this...Exactly WHEN is a planet considered to be exalted or debilitated? Is is just by being posited in the respective signs of exaltation or debilitation - such as Jupiter is considered debilitated simply because he is posited in Capricorn? Or Venus is considered exalted just because she is posited in Pisces? The answer to this question is no! There are refinements to strengths and weaknesses that need to be addressed before blanket statements are made due to assessing these planetary strengths and weaknesses. For example, is Jupiter, when posited at 15 Cancer, considered to be in an exalted state? No! Why? Jupiter is exalted at 05 Cancer - not at 15 degrees Cancer. Orbs must be set in place and respected for the effects of exalted or debilitated status to be truly effective - sign positions alone are irrelevant when assessing planetary strengths. So to say that a planet is exalted or debilitated simply because it is posited in its sign of exaltation or debilitation is incorrect - the degrees of the sign placement are necessary to determine whether that planet is truly in an exalted or debilitated state. According to my understanding, the KP preferred orb allowance is 50' on either side of its exaltation or debilitation degree - (less than a degree). Below is a Table showing the exalted and debilitated placements. I sincerely hope this further clarifies the position of exaltation versus debilitation. (If the Table doesn't transmit, I have also uploaded this to my site at http://www.jupitersweb.com/kp_exaltation.debilitation%20revisited.htm (With reference to Navamsha positions, my take on this is that in KP, this varga has been used to further refine the strength of a planet). Planet Exalted Debilitated Sun 10 Degrees Aries 10 Degrees Libra Moon 03 Degrees Taurus 03 Degrees Scorpio Mars 28 Degrees Capricorn 28 Degrees Cancer Mercury 15 Degrees Virgo 15 Degrees Pisces Jupiter 05 Degrees Cancer 05 Degrees Capricorn Venus 27 Degrees Pisces 27 Degrees Virgo Saturn 20 Libra 20 Degrees Aries Rahu 20 Degrees Taurus 20 Degrees Scorpio Ketu 20 Degrees Scorpio 20 Degrees Taurus All the Best, Sandy Crowther http://www.jupitersweb.com --------- A.R.Raichur bombayanant_1608 raichuranant USE ONE OF THESE ADDRESS ES ONLYtel: 022-2506 2609 --------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2005 Report Share Posted April 24, 2005 Dear Anant Raichur and Group, I, too, had not seen an orb reference in any of the KP books and was feeling like this overall planetary "exalted/debilitation" assessment was getting a bit out of hand, but I had nothing concrete in KP to base my gut feelings on. So I was absolutely delighted when I finally came across a KP reference addressing the acceptable orb that should be in place, for exaltation and debilitation to be truly effective. Having located a reference addressing this concern of mine, I then also made both a mental note and a penciled note (in the book) as to where this reference could be checked. So if you have the book "Astrosecrets and Krishnamurti Padhdhati" Part 1, you will fine the reference on page 36 of the Fourth Edition; April 2003. If you do not have the book at hand, below is the direct quote, for your reference: (When he begins his sentence "From this" [first sentence below], he is referring to the preceding planetary star and pada information for debilitation to be in effect). "From this it will be clear that planets in a particular sign, and in a particular pada alone should be considered as exalted or debilitated, and to speak of exaltation or Debilitation other than the said pada will not be correct. Planets moving in a star, gets its exaltation level 50 minutes before approaching the stipulated degree level to exhibit a brilliant light and again attains the normal original brightness 50 minutes after leaving before the same stipulated degree levels." The author then goes on to say: "In the same way debilitation needs to be understood. To repeat, a planet moving in a sign if it is its exaltation house, one should not be blind to say that planet is exalted. Similarly debilitation. That is a planet is exalted at a particular degree level only, and that planet is moving in it exaltation sign are two different things. Such observations contrary to the real, not only of exaltation - debilitation, but several other matters in astrology only make this Astro science a sick one. No doctor can cure such sickness. A deep search and to arrive at the truth alone can cure this malady." Later on in this same chapter, the author addresses the fact that the "devil in the astrologer" often gives a blanket reading, and that the astrologer may have made some serious errors (for what could have and should have resulted in a happy marriage), by misrepresenting the real truths behind the concept of debilitation, and thereby spoiling the marital match by declaring it an unfit match through his reading. The result was that the marriage never took place when it should have, and in fact, the union could have resulted in a happy marriage, but never stood the chance due to the astrologer. (In my opinion - These are errors we must all (as astrologers) concern ourselves with when reading for a client - and only by addressing these subtleties publicly will we all be made more aware of the same, and then more attentive to details). All the Best, Sandy Crowther http://www.jupitersweb.com On Behalf Of anant raichurSunday, April 24, 2005 12:13 PM Subject: Re: Exaltation/Debilitation Revisited Dear Sandy Crowther I fully agree with your views on Exaltation and Debilitation. I however do not recollect where the ORBs are specified. The Signs and Degrees are okay. Any refernce to orbs would help Sandy Crowther <sandycrowther wrote: Dear Group, There appears to be some prevailing confusion about exactly what Exaltation and Debilitation actually mean in evaluation of a KP chart. So below is a brief overview of the planetary interactions, followed by my humble attempt at explaining the effects of exaltation and debilitation, and their usage in KP, according to my understanding of the basic and primary teachings of the KP system. What we know already is that a planet moving under the influence of his star lord, will act according to the dictates of that star lord. With that in mind, we are also well aware that the planet will predominately offer the results of the house in which the star lord is posited, in addition to the house(s) owned by the star lord. Then, the planet itself, offers the results of the house it occupies and the house(s) it owns. So basically each planet has a role to play, and both the star lord and the planet combine their influence to determine whether the event will be favorable or not. ( If unfamiliar with this concept, more examples of how a planet will act can be found in my article KP: How Does the Dasha Lord Function?) So what exactly does Exalted or Debilitated infer? Several indicators are simply "givens" in KP, and must not only be considered, but must also be both integrated and synthesized into your analysis before a final determination is made. But according to sizing up an event, only the house results are offered - so where does that leave the sign effects that the planet is placed in - such as the planet's exalted or debilitated status? Here is where much confusion seems prevalent in KP assessments- especially when a planet is badly placed in the 8th or 12th house, but simultaneously exalted in status. Or when a planet is in a debilitated state, but posited in the benefic 11th house? How do we assess these results? Exaltation and debilitation are "strength" and "weakness" indicators respectively, and therefore their specific job is to give us an idea of how much "muscle" (strength or weakness) the planet carries - within its environment - to carry out its function determined by its house placement. So if a planet is strong due to exaltation, but badly placed in the 12th, the planet does not change its role and become good for the 12th house, but rather the effects are that the planet will not hasten to quickly carry out the functions for his position in any given house, and will therefore quickly bring about loss (or other 12th house function) in a very timely manner. Why? Because he has the strength to act quickly and with no delay, and he is very comfortable where he is positioned in his exalted status. He works fast because he is in a happy and exalted state - caring not that he is working quickly to bring about less than fortunate events. He's just doing his job with the muscle provided to do it with. When the planet has established a set of results that need to be carried out due to his star level placement, exaltation does not absolve him of the adverse results that need to be carried out, and subsequently make the results pleasant. This is simply not the way exaltation and debilitation work, nor is it part of their role as "strength indicators" for a planet. The planets do not give contrary results due to their strength status. So, also, do we judge the effects of a planet posited in a good house but in the state of debilitation. This debilitated planet will still carry out the positive acts for the house in which he is posited, but his strength factor will not allow him to do so quickly or in a timely manner. So the result is that he will eventually bring the good effects about, but not in a timely manner or with speed under his wings. He only carries enough strength to respond to his mission in a slow and delayed manner because he is not happy being posited where he is and at the degree at which he is debilitated, but he has a job to do and will carry it out and do his job, but NOT in a manner contrary to what his position indicates - it will just be carried out at a snails pace. More Apparent "Strength" Confusion: Now the KP confusion I'm seeing frequently, and the catch to the exaltation/debilitation game is this...Exactly WHEN is a planet considered to be exalted or debilitated? Is is just by being posited in the respective signs of exaltation or debilitation - such as Jupiter is considered debilitated simply because he is posited in Capricorn? Or Venus is considered exalted just because she is posited in Pisces? The answer to this question is no! There are refinements to strengths and weaknesses that need to be addressed before blanket statements are made due to assessing these planetary strengths and weaknesses. For example, is Jupiter, when posited at 15 Cancer, considered to be in an exalted state? No! Why? Jupiter is exalted at 05 Cancer - not at 15 degrees Cancer. Orbs must be set in place and respected for the effects of exalted or debilitated status to be truly effective - sign positions alone are irrelevant when assessing planetary strengths. So to say that a planet is exalted or debilitated simply because it is posited in its sign of exaltation or debilitation is incorrect - the degrees of the sign placement are necessary to determine whether that planet is truly in an exalted or debilitated state. According to my understanding, the KP preferred orb allowance is 50' on either side of its exaltation or debilitation degree - (less than a degree). Below is a Table showing the exalted and debilitated placements. I sincerely hope this further clarifies the position of exaltation versus debilitation. (If the Table doesn't transmit, I have also uploaded this to my site at http://www.jupitersweb.com/kp_exaltation.debilitation%20revisited.htm (With reference to Navamsha positions, my take on this is that in KP, this varga has been used to further refine the strength of a planet). Planet Exalted Debilitated Sun 10 Degrees Aries 10 Degrees Libra Moon 03 Degrees Taurus 03 Degrees Scorpio Mars 28 Degrees Capricorn 28 Degrees Cancer Mercury 15 Degrees Virgo 15 Degrees Pisces Jupiter 05 Degrees Cancer 05 Degrees Capricorn Venus 27 Degrees Pisces 27 Degrees Virgo Saturn 20 Libra 20 Degrees Aries Rahu 20 Degrees Taurus 20 Degrees Scorpio Ketu 20 Degrees Scorpio 20 Degrees Taurus All the Best, Sandy Crowther http://www.jupitersweb.com --------- A.R.Raichur bombayanant_1608 raichuranant USE ONE OF THESE ADDRESS ES ONLYtel: 022-2506 2609 --------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2005 Report Share Posted April 25, 2005 Dear Sandy, et al, The clearest 'proof' of aspects has been shown by Nelson on his research on the influence of cosmic patterns on radio waves in communications. If you go to 'Recent Advances in Natal Astrology' page 340 you will see the bell curve of observed aspects. You will note that there is high intensity up to 1*. This is what the author of Astrosecrets may be implying when he says ' gets its exaltation level 50 minutes before approaching' and leaving the stipulated degree. Does this mean that exaltation should be restricted to this 50'. I suspect not, because the bell curve shows clearly that up to around 2* to 2.5* there is still considerable influence in aspects. After 5* this becomes minimal. It is interesting to note that the bell curve is uniform ie departing aspects are exactly the same as applying. I always found it confusing using Hindu whole sign aspects as they tend to bring in too many other planets into the equation. I also found many to be totally irrelevant to the point at issue. Accordingly I now use Western aspects of 5* for major aspects and 2.5* - 3* for minor. I find this works well with KP and Horary. Ron Gaunt On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 13:17:06 -0400, you wrote: >Dear Anant Raichur and Group, > >I, too, had not seen an orb reference in any of the KP books and was feeling >like this overall planetary " exalted/debilitation " assessment was getting a >bit out of hand, but I had nothing concrete in KP to base my gut feelings >on. So I was absolutely delighted when I finally came across a KP reference >addressing the acceptable orb that should be in place, for exaltation and >debilitation to be truly effective. Having located a reference addressing >this concern of mine, I then also made both a mental note and a penciled >note (in the book) as to where this reference could be checked. > >So if you have the book " Astrosecrets and Krishnamurti Padhdhati " Part 1, >you will fine the reference on page 36 of the Fourth Edition; April 2003. > >If you do not have the book at hand, below is the direct quote, for your >reference: (When he begins his sentence " From this " [first sentence below], >he is referring to the preceding planetary star and pada information for >debilitation to be in effect). > > " From this it will be clear that planets in a particular sign, and in a >particular pada alone should be considered as exalted or debilitated, and to >speak of exaltation or Debilitation other than the said pada will not be >correct. Planets moving in a star, gets its exaltation level 50 minutes >before approaching the stipulated degree level to exhibit a brilliant light >and again attains the normal original brightness 50 minutes after leaving >before the same stipulated degree levels. " > >The author then goes on to say: > > " In the same way debilitation needs to be understood. To repeat, a planet >moving in a sign if it is its exaltation house, one should not be blind to >say that planet is exalted. Similarly debilitation. That is a planet is >exalted at a particular degree level only, and that planet is moving in it >exaltation sign are two different things. Such observations contrary to the >real, not only of exaltation - debilitation, but several other matters in >astrology only make this Astro science a sick one. No doctor can cure such >sickness. A deep search and to arrive at the truth alone can cure this >malady. " > >Later on in this same chapter, the author addresses the fact that the " devil >in the astrologer " often gives a blanket reading, and that the astrologer >may have made some serious errors (for what could have and should have >resulted in a happy marriage), by misrepresenting the real truths behind the >concept of debilitation, and thereby spoiling the marital match by declaring >it an unfit match through his reading. The result was that the marriage >never took place when it should have, and in fact, the union could have >resulted in a happy marriage, but never stood the chance due to the >astrologer. (In my opinion - These are errors we must all (as astrologers) >concern ourselves with when reading for a client - and only by addressing >these subtleties publicly will we all be made more aware of the same, and >then more attentive to details). > > > All the Best, > <http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/40.gif> Sandy >Crowther > <http://www.jupitersweb.com/> http://www.jupitersweb.com > > > > On >Behalf Of anant raichur >Sunday, April 24, 2005 12:13 PM > >Re: Exaltation/Debilitation Revisited > > >Dear Sandy Crowther > >I fully agree with your views on Exaltation and Debilitation. I however do >not recollect where > >the ORBs are specified. The Signs and Degrees are okay. > >Any refernce to orbs would help > > >Sandy Crowther <sandycrowther wrote: > >Dear Group, > >There appears to be some prevailing confusion about exactly what Exaltation >and Debilitation actually mean in evaluation of a KP chart. So below is a >brief overview of the planetary interactions, followed by my humble attempt >at explaining the effects of exaltation and debilitation, and their usage in >KP, according to my understanding of the basic and primary teachings of the >KP system. > >What we know already is that a planet moving under the influence of his star >lord, will act according to the dictates of that star lord. With that in >mind, we are also well aware that the planet will predominately offer the >results of the house in which the star lord is posited, in addition to the >house(s) owned by the star lord. Then, the planet itself, offers the results >of the house it occupies and the house(s) it owns. So basically each planet >has a role to play, and both the star lord and the planet combine their >influence to determine whether the event will be favorable or not. ( If >unfamiliar with this concept, more examples of how a planet will act can be >found in my article ><http://www.jupitersweb.com/kp_How%20does%20the%20dasha%20lord%20function.ht >m> KP: How Does the Dasha Lord Function?) > >So what exactly does Exalted or Debilitated infer? >Several indicators are simply " givens " in KP, and must not only be >considered, but must also be both integrated and synthesized into your >analysis before a final determination is made. But according to sizing up an >event, only the house results are offered - so where does that leave the >sign effects that the planet is placed in - such as the planet's exalted or >debilitated status? Here is where much confusion seems prevalent in KP >assessments- especially when a planet is badly placed in the 8th or 12th >house, but simultaneously exalted in status. Or when a planet is in a >debilitated state, but posited in the benefic 11th house? How do we assess >these results? > >Exaltation and debilitation are " strength " and " weakness " indicators >respectively, and therefore their specific job is to give us an idea of how >much " muscle " (strength or weakness) the planet carries - within its >environment - to carry out its function determined by its house placement. >So if a planet is strong due to exaltation, but badly placed in the 12th, >the planet does not change its role and become good for the 12th house, but >rather the effects are that the planet will not hasten to quickly carry out >the functions for his position in any given house, and will therefore >quickly bring about loss (or other 12th house function) in a very timely >manner. Why? Because he has the strength to act quickly and with no delay, >and he is very comfortable where he is positioned in his exalted status. He >works fast because he is in a happy and exalted state - caring not that he >is working quickly to bring about less than fortunate events. He's just >doing his job with the muscle provided to do it with. When the planet has >established a set of results that need to be carried out due to his star >level placement, exaltation does not absolve him of the adverse results that >need to be carried out, and subsequently make the results pleasant. This is >simply not the way exaltation and debilitation work, nor is it part of their >role as " strength indicators " for a planet. The planets do not give contrary >results due to their strength status. >So, also, do we judge the effects of a planet posited in a good house but in >the state of debilitation. This debilitated planet will still carry out the >positive acts for the house in which he is posited, but his strength factor >will not allow him to do so quickly or in a timely manner. So the result is >that he will eventually bring the good effects about, but not in a timely >manner or with speed under his wings. He only carries enough strength to >respond to his mission in a slow and delayed manner because he is not happy >being posited where he is and at the degree at which he is debilitated, but >he has a job to do and will carry it out and do his job, but NOT in a manner >contrary to what his position indicates - it will just be carried out at a >snails pace. > >More Apparent " Strength " Confusion: >Now the KP confusion I'm seeing frequently, and the catch to the >exaltation/debilitation game is this...Exactly WHEN is a planet considered >to be exalted or debilitated? Is is just by being posited in the respective >signs of exaltation or debilitation - such as Jupiter is considered >debilitated simply because he is posited in Capricorn? Or Venus is >considered exalted just because she is posited in Pisces? The answer to this >question is no! There are refinements to strengths and weaknesses that need >to be addressed before blanket statements are made due to assessing these >planetary strengths and weaknesses. For example, is Jupiter, when posited at >15 Cancer, considered to be in an exalted state? No! Why? Jupiter is exalted >at 05 Cancer - not at 15 degrees Cancer. Orbs must be set in place and >respected for the effects of exalted or debilitated status to be truly >effective - sign positions alone are irrelevant when assessing planetary >strengths. So to say that a planet is exalted or debilitated simply because >it is posited in its sign of exaltation or debilitation is incorrect - the >degrees of the sign placement are necessary to determine whether that planet >is truly in an exalted or debilitated state. According to my understanding, >the KP preferred orb allowance is 50' on either side of its exaltation or >debilitation degree - (less than a degree). Below is a Table showing the >exalted and debilitated placements. I sincerely hope this further clarifies >the position of exaltation versus debilitation. (If the Table doesn't >transmit, I have also uploaded this to my site at >http://www.jupitersweb.com/kp_exaltation.debilitation%20revisited.htm >(With reference to Navamsha positions, my take on this is that in KP, this >varga has been used to further refine the strength of a planet). > > >Planet >Exalted >Debilitated > >Sun >10 Degrees Aries >10 Degrees Libra > >Moon >03 Degrees Taurus >03 Degrees Scorpio > >Mars >28 Degrees Capricorn >28 Degrees Cancer > >Mercury >15 Degrees Virgo >15 Degrees Pisces > >Jupiter >05 Degrees Cancer >05 Degrees Capricorn > >Venus >27 Degrees Pisces >27 Degrees Virgo > >Saturn >20 Libra >20 Degrees Aries > >Rahu >20 Degrees Taurus >20 Degrees Scorpio > >Ketu >20 Degrees Scorpio >20 Degrees Taurus > > <sandy > > > All the Best, > <http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/40.gif> Sandy >Crowther > <http://www.jupitersweb.com/> http://www.jupitersweb.com > <http://www.jupitersweb.com/> > > > > > > > > > >--------- >A.R.Raichur bombay >anant_1608 >raichuranant >USE ONE OF THESE ADDRESS ES ONLY >tel: 022-2506 2609 >--------- > > > > _____ > > > Small Business - Try ><http://us.rd./evt=31637/* >> our new resources site! > > _____ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2005 Report Share Posted April 25, 2005 Dear friends, In Kp we are paying much importance to the fructification of some events. Or we are looking for job, marriage, money prospects etc. We analyse these with reference to house of gains[upchaya houses] 2,3,6,10, & 11 to find out the correct results. Because these are important aspects of life [ gains ], Kp is much liked as it point out exact results. However, planets in deblitation and exaltation have their signficance in many ways. Like say an extereme hypothetical case,in Leo lagna star lord is Sun and sublord is Venus which is posted in star of Sun in Libra. Now here deblitation effect of Sun will be highly pronouced. The native will have problems of trust in his life, he will not be relable, weak in his attachments.Lack of courage will also be visisble. In the above case as Sun is chief significator of 1st house and being deblitated will give such negative results. It is another matter if this Sun is again signfy some Upchaya house to give gains to the native inspite of his negative traits. Similarly Mars deblitation [Mars signfying lagna in KP way] may make person weak in strenght, employ unhealthy practices, crooked nature, drinking habits. Similarly other planets have their characterstics. Sun chief representative of lagna[kp way] if exalted may give native a strong character, optimism, arrogance,assertive, victorious.[ but its significance of 8th and 12th may not give him any benefits in life]. Exaltation/Deblitation will definately show their effect if seen in these perspective. Same way if deblitated planets are representing 7th cusp, or 3rd cusp, the problem area is life partner or brother etc. Inder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2005 Report Share Posted April 25, 2005 Dear Ron, The orbs you suggest look acceptable for aspect calculation, but wouldn't these be too " wide " for determining exaltation / debilitation / Mootrikona? Personally I would prefer a tighter orb, close to what Shanmugham has mentioned. Regards, Rangarajan , " rongaunt@b... au " <rongaunt@b...> wrote: > > Dear Sandy, et al, > > The clearest 'proof' of aspects has been shown by Nelson on his > research on the influence of cosmic patterns on radio waves in > communications. If you go to 'Recent Advances in Natal > Astrology' page 340 you will see the bell curve of observed > aspects. You will note that there is high intensity up to > 1*. This is what the author of Astrosecrets may be implying > when he says ' gets its exaltation level 50 minutes before > approaching' and leaving the stipulated degree. Does this > mean that exaltation should be restricted to this 50'. I > suspect not, because the bell curve shows clearly that up to > around 2* to 2.5* there is still considerable influence in > aspects. After 5* this becomes minimal. It is interesting to > note that the bell curve is uniform ie departing aspects are > exactly the same as applying. > > I always found it confusing using Hindu whole sign aspects > as they tend to bring in too many other planets into the > equation. I also found many to be totally irrelevant to the > point at issue. Accordingly I now use Western aspects > of 5* for major aspects and 2.5* - 3* for minor. I find this > works well with KP and Horary. > > > Ron Gaunt > > > > On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 13:17:06 -0400, you wrote: > > >Dear Anant Raichur and Group, > > > >I, too, had not seen an orb reference in any of the KP books and was feeling > >like this overall planetary " exalted/debilitation " assessment was getting a > >bit out of hand, but I had nothing concrete in KP to base my gut feelings > >on. So I was absolutely delighted when I finally came across a KP reference > >addressing the acceptable orb that should be in place, for exaltation and > >debilitation to be truly effective. Having located a reference addressing > >this concern of mine, I then also made both a mental note and a penciled > >note (in the book) as to where this reference could be checked. > > > >So if you have the book " Astrosecrets and Krishnamurti Padhdhati " Part 1, > >you will fine the reference on page 36 of the Fourth Edition; April 2003. > > > >If you do not have the book at hand, below is the direct quote, for your > >reference: (When he begins his sentence " From this " [first sentence below], > >he is referring to the preceding planetary star and pada information for > >debilitation to be in effect). > > > > " From this it will be clear that planets in a particular sign, and in a > >particular pada alone should be considered as exalted or debilitated, and to > >speak of exaltation or Debilitation other than the said pada will not be > >correct. Planets moving in a star, gets its exaltation level 50 minutes > >before approaching the stipulated degree level to exhibit a brilliant light > >and again attains the normal original brightness 50 minutes after leaving > >before the same stipulated degree levels. " > > > >The author then goes on to say: > > > > " In the same way debilitation needs to be understood. To repeat, a planet > >moving in a sign if it is its exaltation house, one should not be blind to > >say that planet is exalted. Similarly debilitation. That is a planet is > >exalted at a particular degree level only, and that planet is moving in it > >exaltation sign are two different things. Such observations contrary to the > >real, not only of exaltation - debilitation, but several other matters in > >astrology only make this Astro science a sick one. No doctor can cure such > >sickness. A deep search and to arrive at the truth alone can cure this > >malady. " > > > >Later on in this same chapter, the author addresses the fact that the " devil > >in the astrologer " often gives a blanket reading, and that the astrologer > >may have made some serious errors (for what could have and should have > >resulted in a happy marriage), by misrepresenting the real truths behind the > >concept of debilitation, and thereby spoiling the marital match by declaring > >it an unfit match through his reading. The result was that the marriage > >never took place when it should have, and in fact, the union could have > >resulted in a happy marriage, but never stood the chance due to the > >astrologer. (In my opinion - These are errors we must all (as astrologers) > >concern ourselves with when reading for a client - and only by addressing > >these subtleties publicly will we all be made more aware of the same, and > >then more attentive to details). > > > > > > All the Best, > > <http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/40.gif> Sandy > >Crowther > > <http://www.jupitersweb.com/> http://www.jupitersweb.com > > > > > > > > On > >Behalf Of anant raichur > >Sunday, April 24, 2005 12:13 PM > > > >Re: Exaltation/Debilitation Revisited > > > > > >Dear Sandy Crowther > > > >I fully agree with your views on Exaltation and Debilitation. I however do > >not recollect where > > > >the ORBs are specified. The Signs and Degrees are okay. > > > >Any refernce to orbs would help > > > > > >Sandy Crowther <sandycrowther@a...> wrote: > > > >Dear Group, > > > >There appears to be some prevailing confusion about exactly what Exaltation > >and Debilitation actually mean in evaluation of a KP chart. So below is a > >brief overview of the planetary interactions, followed by my humble attempt > >at explaining the effects of exaltation and debilitation, and their usage in > >KP, according to my understanding of the basic and primary teachings of the > >KP system. > > > >What we know already is that a planet moving under the influence of his star > >lord, will act according to the dictates of that star lord. With that in > >mind, we are also well aware that the planet will predominately offer the > >results of the house in which the star lord is posited, in addition to the > >house(s) owned by the star lord. Then, the planet itself, offers the results > >of the house it occupies and the house(s) it owns. So basically each planet > >has a role to play, and both the star lord and the planet combine their > >influence to determine whether the event will be favorable or not. ( If > >unfamiliar with this concept, more examples of how a planet will act can be > >found in my article > ><http://www.jupitersweb.com/kp_How%20does%20the%20dasha%20lord% 20function.ht > >m> KP: How Does the Dasha Lord Function?) > > > >So what exactly does Exalted or Debilitated infer? > >Several indicators are simply " givens " in KP, and must not only be > >considered, but must also be both integrated and synthesized into your > >analysis before a final determination is made. But according to sizing up an > >event, only the house results are offered - so where does that leave the > >sign effects that the planet is placed in - such as the planet's exalted or > >debilitated status? Here is where much confusion seems prevalent in KP > >assessments- especially when a planet is badly placed in the 8th or 12th > >house, but simultaneously exalted in status. Or when a planet is in a > >debilitated state, but posited in the benefic 11th house? How do we assess > >these results? > > > >Exaltation and debilitation are " strength " and " weakness " indicators > >respectively, and therefore their specific job is to give us an idea of how > >much " muscle " (strength or weakness) the planet carries - within its > >environment - to carry out its function determined by its house placement. > >So if a planet is strong due to exaltation, but badly placed in the 12th, > >the planet does not change its role and become good for the 12th house, but > >rather the effects are that the planet will not hasten to quickly carry out > >the functions for his position in any given house, and will therefore > >quickly bring about loss (or other 12th house function) in a very timely > >manner. Why? Because he has the strength to act quickly and with no delay, > >and he is very comfortable where he is positioned in his exalted status. He > >works fast because he is in a happy and exalted state - caring not that he > >is working quickly to bring about less than fortunate events. He's just > >doing his job with the muscle provided to do it with. When the planet has > >established a set of results that need to be carried out due to his star > >level placement, exaltation does not absolve him of the adverse results that > >need to be carried out, and subsequently make the results pleasant. This is > >simply not the way exaltation and debilitation work, nor is it part of their > >role as " strength indicators " for a planet. The planets do not give contrary > >results due to their strength status. > >So, also, do we judge the effects of a planet posited in a good house but in > >the state of debilitation. This debilitated planet will still carry out the > >positive acts for the house in which he is posited, but his strength factor > >will not allow him to do so quickly or in a timely manner. So the result is > >that he will eventually bring the good effects about, but not in a timely > >manner or with speed under his wings. He only carries enough strength to > >respond to his mission in a slow and delayed manner because he is not happy > >being posited where he is and at the degree at which he is debilitated, but > >he has a job to do and will carry it out and do his job, but NOT in a manner > >contrary to what his position indicates - it will just be carried out at a > >snails pace. > > > >More Apparent " Strength " Confusion: > >Now the KP confusion I'm seeing frequently, and the catch to the > >exaltation/debilitation game is this...Exactly WHEN is a planet considered > >to be exalted or debilitated? Is is just by being posited in the respective > >signs of exaltation or debilitation - such as Jupiter is considered > >debilitated simply because he is posited in Capricorn? Or Venus is > >considered exalted just because she is posited in Pisces? The answer to this > >question is no! There are refinements to strengths and weaknesses that need > >to be addressed before blanket statements are made due to assessing these > >planetary strengths and weaknesses. For example, is Jupiter, when posited at > >15 Cancer, considered to be in an exalted state? No! Why? Jupiter is exalted > >at 05 Cancer - not at 15 degrees Cancer. Orbs must be set in place and > >respected for the effects of exalted or debilitated status to be truly > >effective - sign positions alone are irrelevant when assessing planetary > >strengths. So to say that a planet is exalted or debilitated simply because > >it is posited in its sign of exaltation or debilitation is incorrect - the > >degrees of the sign placement are necessary to determine whether that planet > >is truly in an exalted or debilitated state. According to my understanding, > >the KP preferred orb allowance is 50' on either side of its exaltation or > >debilitation degree - (less than a degree). Below is a Table showing the > >exalted and debilitated placements. I sincerely hope this further clarifies > >the position of exaltation versus debilitation. (If the Table doesn't > >transmit, I have also uploaded this to my site at > >http://www.jupitersweb.com/kp_exaltation.debilitation% 20revisited.htm > >(With reference to Navamsha positions, my take on this is that in KP, this > >varga has been used to further refine the strength of a planet). > > > > > >Planet > >Exalted > >Debilitated > > > >Sun > >10 Degrees Aries > >10 Degrees Libra > > > >Moon > >03 Degrees Taurus > >03 Degrees Scorpio > > > >Mars > >28 Degrees Capricorn > >28 Degrees Cancer > > > >Mercury > >15 Degrees Virgo > >15 Degrees Pisces > > > >Jupiter > >05 Degrees Cancer > >05 Degrees Capricorn > > > >Venus > >27 Degrees Pisces > >27 Degrees Virgo > > > >Saturn > >20 Libra > >20 Degrees Aries > > > >Rahu > >20 Degrees Taurus > >20 Degrees Scorpio > > > >Ketu > >20 Degrees Scorpio > >20 Degrees Taurus > > > > <sandy@t...> > > > > > > All the Best, > > <http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/40.gif> Sandy > >Crowther > > <http://www.jupitersweb.com/> http://www.jupitersweb.com > > <http://www.jupitersweb.com/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--------- > >A.R.Raichur bombay > >anant_1608 > >raichuranant > >USE ONE OF THESE ADDRESS ES ONLY > >tel: 022-2506 2609 > >--------- > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > Small Business - Try > ><http://us.rd./evt=31637/*http://smallbusiness./re sources/ > >> our new resources site! > > > > _____ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2005 Report Share Posted April 25, 2005 Dear Sandy, Thanks for a nice posting. However, I don't think I understand what you mean by a debilitated planet offering results " at snails pace " or an exalted planet offering results " quickly " . Does this affect timing then? We normally use conjoined period of the effective significators along with transits to establish timing. I can't see how planetary dignity (its strength as you nicely put it) can affect this. Regards, Rangarajan , " Sandy Crowther " <sandycrowther@a...> wrote: > Dear Group, > > There appears to be some prevailing confusion about exactly what Exaltation > and Debilitation actually mean in evaluation of a KP chart. So below is a > brief overview of the planetary interactions, followed by my humble attempt > at explaining the effects of exaltation and debilitation, and their usage in > KP, according to my understanding of the basic and primary teachings of the > KP system. > > What we know already is that a planet moving under the influence of his star > lord, will act according to the dictates of that star lord. With that in > mind, we are also well aware that the planet will predominately offer the > results of the house in which the star lord is posited, in addition to the > house(s) owned by the star lord. Then, the planet itself, offers the results > of the house it occupies and the house(s) it owns. So basically each planet > has a role to play, and both the star lord and the planet combine their > influence to determine whether the event will be favorable or not. ( If > unfamiliar with this concept, more examples of how a planet will act can be > found in my article > <http://www.jupitersweb.com/kp_How%20does%20the%20dasha%20lord% 20function.ht > m> KP: How Does the Dasha Lord Function?) > > So what exactly does Exalted or Debilitated infer? > Several indicators are simply " givens " in KP, and must not only be > considered, but must also be both integrated and synthesized into your > analysis before a final determination is made. But according to sizing up an > event, only the house results are offered - so where does that leave the > sign effects that the planet is placed in - such as the planet's exalted or > debilitated status? Here is where much confusion seems prevalent in KP > assessments- especially when a planet is badly placed in the 8th or 12th > house, but simultaneously exalted in status. Or when a planet is in a > debilitated state, but posited in the benefic 11th house? How do we assess > these results? > > Exaltation and debilitation are " strength " and " weakness " indicators > respectively, and therefore their specific job is to give us an idea of how > much " muscle " (strength or weakness) the planet carries - within its > environment - to carry out its function determined by its house placement. > So if a planet is strong due to exaltation, but badly placed in the 12th, > the planet does not change its role and become good for the 12th house, but > rather the effects are that the planet will not hasten to quickly carry out > the functions for his position in any given house, and will therefore > quickly bring about loss (or other 12th house function) in a very timely > manner. Why? Because he has the strength to act quickly and with no delay, > and he is very comfortable where he is positioned in his exalted status. He > works fast because he is in a happy and exalted state - caring not that he > is working quickly to bring about less than fortunate events. He's just > doing his job with the muscle provided to do it with. When the planet has > established a set of results that need to be carried out due to his star > level placement, exaltation does not absolve him of the adverse results that > need to be carried out, and subsequently make the results pleasant. This is > simply not the way exaltation and debilitation work, nor is it part of their > role as " strength indicators " for a planet. The planets do not give contrary > results due to their strength status. > So, also, do we judge the effects of a planet posited in a good house but in > the state of debilitation. This debilitated planet will still carry out the > positive acts for the house in which he is posited, but his strength factor > will not allow him to do so quickly or in a timely manner. So the result is > that he will eventually bring the good effects about, but not in a timely > manner or with speed under his wings. He only carries enough strength to > respond to his mission in a slow and delayed manner because he is not happy > being posited where he is and at the degree at which he is debilitated, but > he has a job to do and will carry it out and do his job, but NOT in a manner > contrary to what his position indicates - it will just be carried out at a > snails pace. > > More Apparent " Strength " Confusion: > Now the KP confusion I'm seeing frequently, and the catch to the > exaltation/debilitation game is this...Exactly WHEN is a planet considered > to be exalted or debilitated? Is is just by being posited in the respective > signs of exaltation or debilitation - such as Jupiter is considered > debilitated simply because he is posited in Capricorn? Or Venus is > considered exalted just because she is posited in Pisces? The answer to this > question is no! There are refinements to strengths and weaknesses that need > to be addressed before blanket statements are made due to assessing these > planetary strengths and weaknesses. For example, is Jupiter, when posited at > 15 Cancer, considered to be in an exalted state? No! Why? Jupiter is exalted > at 05 Cancer - not at 15 degrees Cancer. Orbs must be set in place and > respected for the effects of exalted or debilitated status to be truly > effective - sign positions alone are irrelevant when assessing planetary > strengths. So to say that a planet is exalted or debilitated simply because > it is posited in its sign of exaltation or debilitation is incorrect - the > degrees of the sign placement are necessary to determine whether that planet > is truly in an exalted or debilitated state. According to my understanding, > the KP preferred orb allowance is 50' on either side of its exaltation or > debilitation degree - (less than a degree). Below is a Table showing the > exalted and debilitated placements. I sincerely hope this further clarifies > the position of exaltation versus debilitation. (If the Table doesn't > transmit, I have also uploaded this to my site at > http://www.jupitersweb.com/kp_exaltation.debilitation% 20revisited.htm > (With reference to Navamsha positions, my take on this is that in KP, this > varga has been used to further refine the strength of a planet). > > > Planet > Exalted > Debilitated > > Sun > 10 Degrees Aries > 10 Degrees Libra > > Moon > 03 Degrees Taurus > 03 Degrees Scorpio > > Mars > 28 Degrees Capricorn > 28 Degrees Cancer > > Mercury > 15 Degrees Virgo > 15 Degrees Pisces > > Jupiter > 05 Degrees Cancer > 05 Degrees Capricorn > > Venus > 27 Degrees Pisces > 27 Degrees Virgo > > Saturn > 20 Libra > 20 Degrees Aries > > Rahu > 20 Degrees Taurus > 20 Degrees Scorpio > > Ketu > 20 Degrees Scorpio > 20 Degrees Taurus > > <sandy@t...> > > > All the Best, > <http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/40.gif> Sandy > Crowther > <http://www.jupitersweb.com/> http://www.jupitersweb.com > <http://www.jupitersweb.com/> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2005 Report Share Posted April 25, 2005 Dear sandy and all, I am sorry to intervene the discussion going on for a longtime on debilitation and exaltation of planets. One of the major welcoming findings of Great guruji K.S.K is "no planet is debilitated or exalted in K.P".Planets gives the results only by source of its star lord...thats why it is called stellar theory. More over,you can very well see personally on your own many charts having exalted planets gives adverse results and planets debilitated gives good results.Why??...Thats the secret of starlord and sub lord theory. So,may be as a practitioner of traditional astrology or vedic astrology,we can use those concepts for our satisfaction but the truth is that we are not hitting the right spot. I request all the K.P astrologers again to understand the foundation rules and findings of great guruji K.S.K and not to divert else with other insignificant rules. K.P is time-tested,well refined and most scientific method in this modern world. Its a message for all true K.P followers and not to hurt anybody. With regards Balaji GRangarajan Krishnamoorthy <ranga wrote: Dear Sandy,Thanks for a nice posting. However, I don't think I understand what you mean by a debilitated planet offering results "at snails pace" or an exalted planet offering results "quickly". Does this affect timing then? We normally use conjoined period of the effective significators along with transits to establish timing. I can't see how planetary dignity (its strength as you nicely put it) can affect this.Regards,Rangarajan , "Sandy Crowther" <sandycrowther@a...> wrote:> Dear Group,> > There appears to be some prevailing confusion about exactly what Exaltation> and Debilitation actually mean in evaluation of a KP chart. So below is a> brief overview of the planetary interactions, followed by my humble attempt> at explaining the effects of exaltation and debilitation, and their usage in> KP, according to my understanding of the basic and primary teachings of the> KP system.> > What we know already is that a planet moving under the influence of his star> lord, will act according to the dictates of that star lord. With that in> mind, we are also well aware that the planet will predominately offer the> results of the house in which the star lord is posited, in addition to the> house(s) owned by the star lord. Then, the planet itself, offers the results> of the house it occupies and the house(s) it owns. So basically each planet> has a role to play, and both the star lord and the planet combine their> influence to determine whether the event will be favorable or not. ( If> unfamiliar with this concept, more examples of how a planet will act can be> found in my article> <http://www.jupitersweb.com/kp_How%20does%20the%20dasha%20lord%20function.ht> m> KP: How Does the Dasha Lord Function?)> > So what exactly does Exalted or Debilitated infer?> Several indicators are simply "givens" in KP, and must not only be> considered, but must also be both integrated and synthesized into your> analysis before a final determination is made. But according to sizing up an> event, only the house results are offered - so where does that leave the> sign effects that the planet is placed in - such as the planet's exalted or> debilitated status? Here is where much confusion seems prevalent in KP> assessments- especially when a planet is badly placed in the 8th or 12th> house, but simultaneously exalted in status. Or when a planet is in a> debilitated state, but posited in the benefic 11th house? How do we assess> these results?> > Exaltation and debilitation are "strength" and "weakness" indicators> respectively, and therefore their specific job is to give us an idea of how> much "muscle" (strength or weakness) the planet carries - within its> environment - to carry out its function determined by its house placement.> So if a planet is strong due to exaltation, but badly placed in the 12th,> the planet does not change its role and become good for the 12th house, but> rather the effects are that the planet will not hasten to quickly carry out> the functions for his position in any given house, and will therefore> quickly bring about loss (or other 12th house function) in a very timely> manner. Why? Because he has the strength to act quickly and with no delay,> and he is very comfortable where he is positioned in his exalted status. He> works fast because he is in a happy and exalted state - caring not that he> is working quickly to bring about less than fortunate events. He's just> doing his job with the muscle provided to do it with. When the planet has> established a set of results that need to be carried out due to his star> level placement, exaltation does not absolve him of the adverse results that> need to be carried out, and subsequently make the results pleasant. This is> simply not the way exaltation and debilitation work, nor is it part of their> role as "strength indicators" for a planet. The planets do not give contrary> results due to their strength status.> So, also, do we judge the effects of a planet posited in a good house but in> the state of debilitation. This debilitated planet will still carry out the> positive acts for the house in which he is posited, but his strength factor> will not allow him to do so quickly or in a timely manner. So the result is> that he will eventually bring the good effects about, but not in a timely> manner or with speed under his wings. He only carries enough strength to> respond to his mission in a slow and delayed manner because he is not happy> being posited where he is and at the degree at which he is debilitated, but> he has a job to do and will carry it out and do his job, but NOT in a manner> contrary to what his position indicates - it will just be carried out at a> snails pace.> > More Apparent "Strength" Confusion:> Now the KP confusion I'm seeing frequently, and the catch to the> exaltation/debilitation game is this...Exactly WHEN is a planet considered> to be exalted or debilitated? Is is just by being posited in the respective> signs of exaltation or debilitation - such as Jupiter is considered> debilitated simply because he is posited in Capricorn? Or Venus is> considered exalted just because she is posited in Pisces? The answer to this> question is no! There are refinements to strengths and weaknesses that need> to be addressed before blanket statements are made due to assessing these> planetary strengths and weaknesses. For example, is Jupiter, when posited at> 15 Cancer, considered to be in an exalted state? No! Why? Jupiter is exalted> at 05 Cancer - not at 15 degrees Cancer. Orbs must be set in place and> respected for the effects of exalted or debilitated status to be truly> effective - sign positions alone are irrelevant when assessing planetary> strengths. So to say that a planet is exalted or debilitated simply because> it is posited in its sign of exaltation or debilitation is incorrect - the> degrees of the sign placement are necessary to determine whether that planet> is truly in an exalted or debilitated state. According to my understanding,> the KP preferred orb allowance is 50' on either side of its exaltation or> debilitation degree - (less than a degree). Below is a Table showing the> exalted and debilitated placements. I sincerely hope this further clarifies> the position of exaltation versus debilitation. (If the Table doesn't> transmit, I have also uploaded this to my site at> http://www.jupitersweb.com/kp_exaltation.debilitation%20revisited.htm> (With reference to Navamsha positions, my take on this is that in KP, this> varga has been used to further refine the strength of a planet).> > > Planet> Exalted> Debilitated> > Sun> 10 Degrees Aries> 10 Degrees Libra> > Moon> 03 Degrees Taurus> 03 Degrees Scorpio> > Mars> 28 Degrees Capricorn> 28 Degrees Cancer> > Mercury> 15 Degrees Virgo> 15 Degrees Pisces> > Jupiter> 05 Degrees Cancer> 05 Degrees Capricorn> > Venus> 27 Degrees Pisces> 27 Degrees Virgo> > Saturn> 20 Libra> 20 Degrees Aries> > Rahu> 20 Degrees Taurus> 20 Degrees Scorpio> > Ketu> 20 Degrees Scorpio> 20 Degrees Taurus> > <sandy@t...> > > > All the Best,> <http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/40.gif> Sandy> Crowther> <http://www.jupitersweb.com/> http://www.jupitersweb.com > <http://www.jupitersweb.com/> India Matrimony: Find your life partner online. 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Guest guest Posted April 25, 2005 Report Share Posted April 25, 2005 - Anmohiey Monday, April 25, 2005 8:23 PM Re: Exaltation/Debilitation Revisited Dear Sandy, You have produced a writing from a KP author, which stated that, Later on in this same chapter, the author addresses the fact that the "devil in the astrologer" often gives a blanket reading, and that the astrologer may have made some serious errors (for what could have and should have resulted in a happy marriage), by misrepresenting the real truths behind the concept of debilitation, and thereby spoiling the marital match by declaring it an unfit match through his reading. The result was that the marriage never took place when it should have, and in fact, the union could have resulted in a happy marriage, but never stood the chance due to the astrologer. I really wonder, how come KP astrologer forgotten that, in principle KP always holds firm belief that, 'what has to happen shall happen irrespective of any efforts to divert it or avert it! If any efforts in vain are put that would have been in the fate of the person to take strain" KP don't believe in remedial measure in the same analogy. It seems, some how so called authors are also confused like me! It is just my personal thought! regards, Mohan Hegde. - Sandy Crowther Sunday, April 24, 2005 10:47 PM RE: Exaltation/Debilitation Revisited Dear Anant Raichur and Group, I, too, had not seen an orb reference in any of the KP books and was feeling like this overall planetary "exalted/debilitation" assessment was getting a bit out of hand, but I had nothing concrete in KP to base my gut feelings on. So I was absolutely delighted when I finally came across a KP reference addressing the acceptable orb that should be in place, for exaltation and debilitation to be truly effective. Having located a reference addressing this concern of mine, I then also made both a mental note and a penciled note (in the book) as to where this reference could be checked. So if you have the book "Astrosecrets and Krishnamurti Padhdhati" Part 1, you will fine the reference on page 36 of the Fourth Edition; April 2003. If you do not have the book at hand, below is the direct quote, for your reference: (When he begins his sentence "From this" [first sentence below], he is referring to the preceding planetary star and pada information for debilitation to be in effect). "From this it will be clear that planets in a particular sign, and in a particular pada alone should be considered as exalted or debilitated, and to speak of exaltation or Debilitation other than the said pada will not be correct. Planets moving in a star, gets its exaltation level 50 minutes before approaching the stipulated degree level to exhibit a brilliant light and again attains the normal original brightness 50 minutes after leaving before the same stipulated degree levels." The author then goes on to say: "In the same way debilitation needs to be understood. To repeat, a planet moving in a sign if it is its exaltation house, one should not be blind to say that planet is exalted. Similarly debilitation. That is a planet is exalted at a particular degree level only, and that planet is moving in it exaltation sign are two different things. Such observations contrary to the real, not only of exaltation - debilitation, but several other matters in astrology only make this Astro science a sick one. No doctor can cure such sickness. A deep search and to arrive at the truth alone can cure this malady." Later on in this same chapter, the author addresses the fact that the "devil in the astrologer" often gives a blanket reading, and that the astrologer may have made some serious errors (for what could have and should have resulted in a happy marriage), by misrepresenting the real truths behind the concept of debilitation, and thereby spoiling the marital match by declaring it an unfit match through his reading. The result was that the marriage never took place when it should have, and in fact, the union could have resulted in a happy marriage, but never stood the chance due to the astrologer. (In my opinion - These are errors we must all (as astrologers) concern ourselves with when reading for a client - and only by addressing these subtleties publicly will we all be made more aware of the same, and then more attentive to details). All the Best, Sandy Crowther http://www.jupitersweb.com On Behalf Of anant raichurSunday, April 24, 2005 12:13 PM Subject: Re: Exaltation/Debilitation Revisited Dear Sandy Crowther I fully agree with your views on Exaltation and Debilitation. I however do not recollect where the ORBs are specified. The Signs and Degrees are okay. Any refernce to orbs would help Sandy Crowther <sandycrowther wrote: Dear Group, There appears to be some prevailing confusion about exactly what Exaltation and Debilitation actually mean in evaluation of a KP chart. So below is a brief overview of the planetary interactions, followed by my humble attempt at explaining the effects of exaltation and debilitation, and their usage in KP, according to my understanding of the basic and primary teachings of the KP system. What we know already is that a planet moving under the influence of his star lord, will act according to the dictates of that star lord. With that in mind, we are also well aware that the planet will predominately offer the results of the house in which the star lord is posited, in addition to the house(s) owned by the star lord. Then, the planet itself, offers the results of the house it occupies and the house(s) it owns. So basically each planet has a role to play, and both the star lord and the planet combine their influence to determine whether the event will be favorable or not. ( If unfamiliar with this concept, more examples of how a planet will act can be found in my article KP: How Does the Dasha Lord Function?) So what exactly does Exalted or Debilitated infer? Several indicators are simply "givens" in KP, and must not only be considered, but must also be both integrated and synthesized into your analysis before a final determination is made. But according to sizing up an event, only the house results are offered - so where does that leave the sign effects that the planet is placed in - such as the planet's exalted or debilitated status? Here is where much confusion seems prevalent in KP assessments- especially when a planet is badly placed in the 8th or 12th house, but simultaneously exalted in status. Or when a planet is in a debilitated state, but posited in the benefic 11th house? How do we assess these results? Exaltation and debilitation are "strength" and "weakness" indicators respectively, and therefore their specific job is to give us an idea of how much "muscle" (strength or weakness) the planet carries - within its environment - to carry out its function determined by its house placement. So if a planet is strong due to exaltation, but badly placed in the 12th, the planet does not change its role and become good for the 12th house, but rather the effects are that the planet will not hasten to quickly carry out the functions for his position in any given house, and will therefore quickly bring about loss (or other 12th house function) in a very timely manner. Why? Because he has the strength to act quickly and with no delay, and he is very comfortable where he is positioned in his exalted status. He works fast because he is in a happy and exalted state - caring not that he is working quickly to bring about less than fortunate events. He's just doing his job with the muscle provided to do it with. When the planet has established a set of results that need to be carried out due to his star level placement, exaltation does not absolve him of the adverse results that need to be carried out, and subsequently make the results pleasant. This is simply not the way exaltation and debilitation work, nor is it part of their role as "strength indicators" for a planet. The planets do not give contrary results due to their strength status. So, also, do we judge the effects of a planet posited in a good house but in the state of debilitation. This debilitated planet will still carry out the positive acts for the house in which he is posited, but his strength factor will not allow him to do so quickly or in a timely manner. So the result is that he will eventually bring the good effects about, but not in a timely manner or with speed under his wings. He only carries enough strength to respond to his mission in a slow and delayed manner because he is not happy being posited where he is and at the degree at which he is debilitated, but he has a job to do and will carry it out and do his job, but NOT in a manner contrary to what his position indicates - it will just be carried out at a snails pace. More Apparent "Strength" Confusion: Now the KP confusion I'm seeing frequently, and the catch to the exaltation/debilitation game is this...Exactly WHEN is a planet considered to be exalted or debilitated? Is is just by being posited in the respective signs of exaltation or debilitation - such as Jupiter is considered debilitated simply because he is posited in Capricorn? Or Venus is considered exalted just because she is posited in Pisces? The answer to this question is no! There are refinements to strengths and weaknesses that need to be addressed before blanket statements are made due to assessing these planetary strengths and weaknesses. For example, is Jupiter, when posited at 15 Cancer, considered to be in an exalted state? No! Why? Jupiter is exalted at 05 Cancer - not at 15 degrees Cancer. Orbs must be set in place and respected for the effects of exalted or debilitated status to be truly effective - sign positions alone are irrelevant when assessing planetary strengths. So to say that a planet is exalted or debilitated simply because it is posited in its sign of exaltation or debilitation is incorrect - the degrees of the sign placement are necessary to determine whether that planet is truly in an exalted or debilitated state. According to my understanding, the KP preferred orb allowance is 50' on either side of its exaltation or debilitation degree - (less than a degree). Below is a Table showing the exalted and debilitated placements. I sincerely hope this further clarifies the position of exaltation versus debilitation. (If the Table doesn't transmit, I have also uploaded this to my site at http://www.jupitersweb.com/kp_exaltation.debilitation%20revisited.htm (With reference to Navamsha positions, my take on this is that in KP, this varga has been used to further refine the strength of a planet). Planet Exalted Debilitated Sun 10 Degrees Aries 10 Degrees Libra Moon 03 Degrees Taurus 03 Degrees Scorpio Mars 28 Degrees Capricorn 28 Degrees Cancer Mercury 15 Degrees Virgo 15 Degrees Pisces Jupiter 05 Degrees Cancer 05 Degrees Capricorn Venus 27 Degrees Pisces 27 Degrees Virgo Saturn 20 Libra 20 Degrees Aries Rahu 20 Degrees Taurus 20 Degrees Scorpio Ketu 20 Degrees Scorpio 20 Degrees Taurus All the Best, Sandy Crowther http://www.jupitersweb.com --------- A.R.Raichur bombayanant_1608 raichuranant USE ONE OF THESE ADDRESS ES ONLYtel: 022-2506 2609 --------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2005 Report Share Posted April 25, 2005 Dear Mr. Sandy Crowther, I appreciate you feelings. and I sicerely support you. I had the opportunity to meet Prof. Krishnamurty Personally in his residence in 1971. During discussion on astrology and stellar thoery, he suggested to me to do further reasearch on Navamsa.. I was taking the sub- subsub of planets in Navamsa and tested some of the horoscopes and found to be working. After his sad demise we could not discuss further. So there is no point in sticking to the theory started by KP which he could not complete during his life time. So You are doing the right thing in continuing his theory of reasearch. After retirement I took the astrology in the right earnest. with Regards Sreenivas DesabhatlaSandy Crowther <sandycrowther wrote: Dear Balaji, Rangarajan, Kanak, and Group, So as to offend no one anymore on this list, this will be my final post here. I simply have no time for this controversy and I am tired of inadvertently upsetting someone over here by a post meant to be of astrological help. I have frequently hesitated to post on this KP list simply because the lid seems to be already tightly closed on the KP System over here, opinions here are strong and forceful, and further investigation is strongly discouraged. I find no acceptance here at all for further research by any seasoned individuals who are researched inclined and have spent years studying astrology - and being forced to stay within the parameters of how someone else perceives the teachings of Prof. K.S.K is simply not acceptable to me. So I will shut my mouth. No hard feelings - I simply have no time for this nonsense. I've done my homework and therefore I blindly follow no one at this stage of my life. We all have different experiences and different opinions, and I value the individuality present in each of us, but personally will not continue to feel the need to watch my back at every post - it's a waste of my time. Having read Prof K.S.K.'s Readers myself, I am of the opinion that Prof. K.S.K strongly encouraged research by serious astrologers or students of astrology and that his system was not meant to be a "closed system" at all, but that is my opinion and perception of his writings, and not my call to make here on this list. Others here have perceived his writings and word as the final word on KP with no additional research or investigation needed, and that is their decision to make and their path to follow also - and I can respect that. But to keep peace and save myself time I don't have in writing posts like this one, I will keep my opinions to myself from this point on. My final comments... I've been studying and practicing astrology for the good part of 35 years, and in my not so humble opinion, assessing planetary strength need not be thrown out simple because it is misunderstood, incorrectly applied, or because we use the star lord and sub lord theory in KP. One is compatible with the other. Yes - I have seen cases where where supposed debilitation didn't work and neither did exaltation for some astrologers - and in those cases, upon closer inspection I found that these planetary strengths were not applied correctly - hence the reason for my post on exaltation/debilitation. So am I going to throw these concepts out? Not a chance. My goal is to attain predictive accuracy - my goal is NOT to walk in restricted astrological areas - I've already been there and done that, and that leaves no room for either personal or professional growth if one is research inclined. To Ranjarajan - I apologize for the confusion. "At a snails pace" is a western term and means moving slowly or sluggishly. It is a terminology used simply to reiterate the fact that a debilitated planet is not happy in his surroundings, and is in no immediate hurry to do what is expected of him. All the Best, Sandy Crowther http://www.jupitersweb.com On Behalf Of Balaji G.krishnanMonday, April 25, 2005 3:42 AM Subject: Re: Re: Exaltation/Debilitation Revisited Dear sandy and all, I am sorry to intervene the discussion going on for a longtime on debilitation and exaltation of planets. One of the major welcoming findings of Great guruji K.S.K is "no planet is debilitated or exalted in K.P".Planets gives the results only by source of its star lord...thats why it is called stellar theory. More over,you can very well see personally on your own many charts having exalted planets gives adverse results and planets debilitated gives good results.Why??...Thats the secret of starlord and sub lord theory. So,may be as a practitioner of traditional astrology or vedic astrology,we can use those concepts for our satisfaction but the truth is that we are not hitting the right spot. I request all the K.P astrologers again to understand the foundation rules and findings of great guruji K.S.K and not to divert else with other insignificant rules. K.P is time-tested,well refined and most scientific method in this modern world. Its a message for all true K.P followers and not to hurt anybody. With regards Balaji GRangarajan Krishnamoorthy <ranga wrote: Dear Sandy,Thanks for a nice posting. However, I don't think I understand what you mean by a debilitated planet offering results "at snails pace" or an exalted planet offering results "quickly". Does this affect timing then? We normally use conjoined period of the effective significators along with transits to establish timing. I can't see how planetary dignity (its strength as you nicely put it) can affect this.Regards,Rangarajan , "Sandy Crowther" <sandycrowther@a...> wrote:> Dear Group,> > There appears to be some prevailing confusion about exactly what Exaltation> and Debilitation actually mean in evaluation of a KP chart. So below is a> brief overview of the planetary interactions, followed by my humble attempt> at explaining the effects of exaltation and debilitation, and their usage in> KP, according to my understanding of the basic and primary teachings of the> KP system.> > What we know already is that a planet moving under the influence of his star> lord, will act according to the dictates of that star lord. With that in> mind, we are also well aware that the planet will predominately offer the> results of the house in which the star lord is posited, in addition to the> house(s) owned by the star lord. Then, the planet itself, offers the results> of the house it occupies and the house(s) it owns. So basically each planet> has a role to play, and both the star lord and the planet combine their> influence to determine whether the event will be favorable or not. ( If> unfamiliar with this concept, more examples of how a planet will act can be> found in my article> <http://www.jupitersweb.com/kp_How%20does%20the%20dasha%20lord%20function.ht> m> KP: How Does the Dasha Lord Function?)> > So what exactly does Exalted or Debilitated infer?> Several indicators are simply "givens" in KP, and must not only be> considered, but must also be both integrated and synthesized into your> analysis before a final determination is made. But according to sizing up an> event, only the house results are offered - so where does that leave the> sign effects that the planet is placed in - such as the planet's exalted or> debilitated status? Here is where much confusion seems prevalent in KP> assessments- especially when a planet is badly placed in the 8th or 12th> house, but simultaneously exalted in status. Or when a planet is in a> debilitated state, but posited in the benefic 11th house? How do we assess> these results?> > Exaltation and debilitation are "strength" and "weakness" indicators> respectively, and therefore their specific job is to give us an idea of how> much "muscle" (strength or weakness) the planet carries - within its> environment - to carry out its function determined by its house placement.> So if a planet is strong due to exaltation, but badly placed in the 12th,> the planet does not change its role and become good for the 12th house, but> rather the effects are that the planet will not hasten to quickly carry out> the functions for his position in any given house, and will therefore> quickly bring about loss (or other 12th house function) in a very timely> manner. Why? Because he has the strength to act quickly and with no delay,> and he is very comfortable where he is positioned in his exalted status. He> works fast because he is in a happy and exalted state - caring not that he> is working quickly to bring about less than fortunate events. He's just> doing his job with the muscle provided to do it with. When the planet has> established a set of results that need to be carried out due to his star> level placement, exaltation does not absolve him of the adverse results that> need to be carried out, and subsequently make the results pleasant. This is> simply not the way exaltation and debilitation work, nor is it part of their> role as "strength indicators" for a planet. The planets do not give contrary> results due to their strength status.> So, also, do we judge the effects of a planet posited in a good house but in> the state of debilitation. This debilitated planet will still carry out the> positive acts for the house in which he is posited, but his strength factor> will not allow him to do so quickly or in a timely manner. So the result is> that he will eventually bring the good effects about, but not in a timely> manner or with speed under his wings. He only carries enough strength to> respond to his mission in a slow and delayed manner because he is not happy> being posited where he is and at the degree at which he is debilitated, but> he has a job to do and will carry it out and do his job, but NOT in a manner> contrary to what his position indicates - it will just be carried out at a> snails pace.> > More Apparent "Strength" Confusion:> Now the KP confusion I'm seeing frequently, and the catch to the> exaltation/debilitation game is this...Exactly WHEN is a planet considered> to be exalted or debilitated? Is is just by being posited in the respective> signs of exaltation or debilitation - such as Jupiter is considered> debilitated simply because he is posited in Capricorn? Or Venus is> considered exalted just because she is posited in Pisces? The answer to this> question is no! There are refinements to strengths and weaknesses that need> to be addressed before blanket statements are made due to assessing these> planetary strengths and weaknesses. For example, is Jupiter, when posited at> 15 Cancer, considered to be in an exalted state? No! Why? Jupiter is exalted> at 05 Cancer - not at 15 degrees Cancer. Orbs must be set in place and> respected for the effects of exalted or debilitated status to be truly> effective - sign positions alone are irrelevant when assessing planetary> strengths. So to say that a planet is exalted or debilitated simply because> it is posited in its sign of exaltation or debilitation is incorrect - the> degrees of the sign placement are necessary to determine whether that planet> is truly in an exalted or debilitated state. According to my understanding,> the KP preferred orb allowance is 50' on either side of its exaltation or> debilitation degree - (less than a degree). Below is a Table showing the> exalted and debilitated placements. I sincerely hope this further clarifies> the position of exaltation versus debilitation. (If the Table doesn't> transmit, I have also uploaded this to my site at> http://www.jupitersweb.com/kp_exaltation.debilitation%20revisited.htm> (With reference to Navamsha positions, my take on this is that in KP, this> varga has been used to further refine the strength of a planet).> > > Planet> Exalted> Debilitated> > Sun> 10 Degrees Aries> 10 Degrees Libra> > Moon> 03 Degrees Taurus> 03 Degrees Scorpio> > Mars> 28 Degrees Capricorn> 28 Degrees Cancer> > Mercury> 15 Degrees Virgo> 15 Degrees Pisces> > Jupiter> 05 Degrees Cancer> 05 Degrees Capricorn> > Venus> 27 Degrees Pisces> 27 Degrees Virgo> > Saturn> 20 Libra> 20 Degrees Aries> > Rahu> 20 Degrees Taurus> 20 Degrees Scorpio> > Ketu> 20 Degrees Scorpio> 20 Degrees Taurus> > <sandy@t...> > > > All the Best,> <http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/40.gif> Sandy> Crowther> <http://www.jupitersweb.com/> http://www.jupitersweb.com > <http://www.jupitersweb.com/> India Matrimony: Find your life partner online. 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Guest guest Posted April 25, 2005 Report Share Posted April 25, 2005 Dear Sandy, 1. I'm late to express my gratitude for your excellent posts regarding Chiron, Gulika and exaltation and debilitation, making this group more flexible and open with the support of senior members and contributing for further development of KP and benefits of KP learners, which is consistent with Guruji KSK's remark below. " One should not blindly follow the rules expounded but take pains to find out the truth and understand their Spirit. This is strictly followed by the author. " (KP Reader II, Predictive Stellar Astrology, 183, p 61) 2. Overall view and benefit of the whole group are uncomparably more important than some new members'views which we give respect. But to say it's KP view, solid KSK references are required. 3. Because of such views we better not give up our effort to contribute what ever we can for the lovely spirit of Guruji KSK, especially with your tested high level skills of practical prediction. 4. For reference,below are KSK originals regarding exaltation and debilitation which are not against your posting. Thanks and best regards, tw P.S. I'm late to respond because I'm still waiting for a priority delivery of KP Reader III , Current Edition, to respond Shri Raichur first and calling my elder KP brother back home to check the old version of Krishnamurti Padhdhati in two volumes , checking timeline records of KP Readers publication to respond Punit ji. KP Reader III (Predictive Stellar Astrology) 1) One should take the following delineations when one is to include at the time of judgement. Whether the planet is strong or weak by noting the sign in which it is. Whether it is in a favorable and beneficial sub or in unfavourable sub. -------- (KP Reader III, 1984, Part 1, p 108) 2) A planet is strong when it is in its own or exalted sign. It is weak or afflicted in its detriment or fall (debilitated) sign. Nakshatra Chintamani, p 20; Further Light on Nakshatra Chintamani, p 9) 3) A very wealthy industrialist --- 3 debilitated planets and no Rajayoga. His clerk with four planets in exaltation. (KP Reader III, 1984, Part 2, p 26, possibly in later edition p 199) 4) These planets (in 2,6,10 or 11) may be debilitated or may be in enemy's one's status will improve in their periods and sub-periods, if they are in the sub of the Significators of 2 or 6 or 11. (KP Reader III, 1984, Part 2, p 28, possibly in later edition p 201) 5) Even though a person may be born a King, if his lord of Lagna is eclipsed, in enemy's camp, debilitated and is in 6, 8 or 12 houses associated with the lords of 2 and 7, without any association with a benefic, hemust borrow. (KP Reader III, 1984, Part 2, p 56, possibly in later edition p 229) 6) Moon in Kethu's star who represents Jupiter, strong in his won sign. (KP Reader III, 1984, Part 2, p 85, possibly in later edition p 258) 7) Moon sign is stronger as is conjoined with the benefic Jupiter and the lord of the rasi is in the 9 th sign in exaltation. (KP Reader III, 1984, Part 2, p 139, possibly in later edition p 312) 8) Mars and Jupiter (both are in their own signs and strong). (KP Reader III, 1984, Part 2, p 173, possibly in later edition p 346) 9) Saturn is lord of 11 and 12. It is in 7th house. It is exalted. (KP Reader III, 1984, Part 2, p 204, possibly in later edition p 377) KP Reader IV (Marriage, Married Life & Children) 10) 7th cusp receives aspect directly from Moon, which is its own sign. (KP Reader IV, 1984, p 133) 11) Sun is exalted, Jupiter is in own sign. Both are stronger. (KP Reader IV, 1984, p 145) 12) 11th house is occupied by exalted Jupiter. (KP Reader IV, 1984, p 190) 13) Abortion takes place in that month if that planet ruling that month ill-posted and adversely aspected. Miscarraige will be in that month rued by the planet in debilitation and afflicted. (KP Reader IV, 1984, p 220, under " Pregnancy " after " Adoption " , before Eunchs) 14) Further the sublord is in neechcha with the above mentioned Sun. (i.e. Mars is debilitated.) (KP Reader IV, 1984, p 231, under " When Will I Have a Child? after " Any Child at All " , before " When My Daughter Deliver ? " below the second chart with DOB 8-8-1936) 15) Further Venus is powerful ruling planet as she is in her own sign. (KP Reader IV, 1984, p 238) KP Reader VI (Horary Astrology) 16) As per timeline of KP Readers publication, Krishnamurti Phadhdhati Volume I & II ( which generally includes materials of later Reader III, IV & V) in 1964-65, in Reader I to VI edition in 1970-71 and Reader VI, First Edition in 1970, is the latest Reader before Guruji KSK's death in 1972. More details regarding exaltation and debilitation are in this Reader VI. a) Western consider that a planet situated in its own sign is the strongest. The signs are are in Sayana system. Next in strength is the essential dignity, i.e. exaltation. (KP Reader VI, 1978 Edition, p 144) b) Hindu are of opinion that strong planets will offer invariably advantageous results, were as those who have little strength will do harm. In practice, it is found to be ABSURD. --- Therefore the nature of the result need not be desirable simply because a planet is strong. (KP Reader VI, 1978 Edition, p 145) c) In K.P. (a) if a planet is exalted but is in the constellation of a planet in debilitation, the extent to which it can do either good or bad is limited. A container (the planet) may be big but the content is a cheap affair (lord of the constellation is the content). But a debilitated planet (small planet) in the constellation of a planet in exaltation (costly gems) is similar to diamond in a small packet. The lord of the constellation is to be considered as one representing the value of the content. The container is the planet which is deposited in a constellation. (KP Reader VI, 1978, pp 145-146, under " Strength of Planets " ) d) Then the extent to which one can have the dowry has to be judged, from the strength of the lord of the constellation in which the sublord of the 11 th is deposited. The sublord of the 11th may be debilitated. Yet, if it were to be in the constellation of a planet which is exalted, then the most satisfactory dowry will be received. Even though the sublord of the 11th cvusp may be exalted, yet if it is in the constellation of a planet which is debilitated, then the dowry will be less. Let me compare the debilitated planet for a small container and exalted planet for a big one. If a debilitated planet is a small packet, then the exalted planet, in whose constellation the debilitated planet is , will be similar to diamond in that small packet. Similarly the exalted planet is the huge container who is in the constellation of debilitated planet which shows that the content's value is less like cotton ball. A big cotton packet is not as valuable as a small packet of diamond. Small packet is the debilitated sublord. Diamond is the exalted constellation lord. This is the way how we have to find out whether a debilitated planet or exalted planet maintains its strength. (KP Reader VI, 1978, p 255, under " Can I expect Dowry?) , " Sandy Crowther " <sandycrowther@a...> wrote: > Dear Balaji, Rangarajan, Kanak, and Group, > > So as to offend no one anymore on this list, this will be my final post > here. I simply have no time for this controversy and I am tired of > inadvertently upsetting someone over here by a post meant to be of > astrological help. I have frequently hesitated to post on this KP list > simply because the lid seems to be already tightly closed on the KP System > over here, opinions here are strong and forceful, and further investigation > is strongly discouraged. I find no acceptance here at all for further > research by any seasoned individuals who are researched inclined and have > spent years studying astrology - and being forced to stay within the > parameters of how someone else perceives the teachings of Prof. K.S.K is > simply not acceptable to me. So I will shut my mouth. No hard feelings - I > simply have no time for this nonsense. I've done my homework and therefore I > blindly follow no one at this stage of my life. We all have different > experiences and different opinions, and I value the individuality present in > each of us, but personally will not continue to feel the need to watch my > back at every post - it's a waste of my time. Having read Prof K.S.K.'s > Readers myself, I am of the opinion that Prof. K.S.K strongly encouraged > research by serious astrologers or students of astrology and that his system > was not meant to be a " closed system " at all, but that is my opinion and > perception of his writings, and not my call to make here on this list. > Others here have perceived his writings and word as the final word on KP > with no additional research or investigation needed, and that is their > decision to make and their path to follow also - and I can respect that. But > to keep peace and save myself time I don't have in writing posts like this > one, I will keep my opinions to myself from this point on. My final > comments... > > I've been studying and practicing astrology for the good part of 35 years, > and in my not so humble opinion, assessing planetary strength need not be > thrown out simple because it is misunderstood, incorrectly applied, or > because we use the star lord and sub lord theory in KP. One is compatible > with the other. Yes - I have seen cases where where supposed debilitation > didn't work and neither did exaltation for some astrologers - and in those > cases, upon closer inspection I found that these planetary strengths were > not applied correctly - hence the reason for my post on > exaltation/debilitation. So am I going to throw these concepts out? Not a > chance. My goal is to attain predictive accuracy - my goal is NOT to walk in > restricted astrological areas - I've already been there and done that, and > that leaves no room for either personal or professional growth if one is > research inclined. > > To Ranjarajan - I apologize for the confusion. " At a snails pace " is a > western term and means moving slowly or sluggishly. It is a terminology used > simply to reiterate the fact that a debilitated planet is not happy in his > surroundings, and is in no immediate hurry to do what is expected of him. > > > All the Best, > <http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/40.gif> Sandy > Crowther > <http://www.jupitersweb.com/> http://www.jupitersweb.com > > > > > > > > On > Behalf Of Balaji G.krishnan > Monday, April 25, 2005 3:42 AM > > Re: Re: Exaltation/Debilitation Revisited > > > Dear sandy and all, > > I am sorry to intervene the discussion going on for a longtime on > debilitation and exaltation of planets. > > One of the major welcoming findings of Great guruji K.S.K is " no planet is > debilitated or exalted in K.P " .Planets gives the results only by source of > its star lord...thats why it is called stellar theory. > > More over,you can very well see personally on your own many charts having > exalted planets gives adverse results and planets debilitated gives good > results.Why??...Thats the secret of starlord and sub lord theory. > > So,may be as a practitioner of traditional astrology or vedic astrology,we > can use those concepts for our satisfaction but the truth is that we are not > hitting the right spot. > > I request all the K.P astrologers again to understand the foundation rules > and findings of great guruji K.S.K and not to divert else with other > insignificant rules. > > K.P is time-tested,well refined and most scientific method in this modern > world. > > Its a message for all true K.P followers and not to hurt anybody. > > With regards > Balaji G > Rangarajan Krishnamoorthy <ranga@m...> wrote: > > > Dear Sandy, > Thanks for a nice posting. However, I don't think I understand what > you mean by a debilitated planet offering results " at snails pace " > or an exalted planet offering results " quickly " . Does this affect > timing then? We normally use conjoined period of the effective > significators along with transits to establish timing. I can't see > how planetary dignity (its strength as you nicely put it) can affect > this. > > Regards, > Rangarajan > > , " Sandy Crowther " > <sandycrowther@a...> wrote: > > Dear Group, > > > > There appears to be some prevailing confusion about exactly what > Exaltation > > and Debilitation actually mean in evaluation of a KP chart. So > below is a > > brief overview of the planetary interactions, followed by my > humble attempt > > at explaining the effects of exaltation and debilitation, and > their usage in > > KP, according to my understanding of the basic and primary > teachings of the > > KP system. > > > > What we know already is that a planet moving under the influence > of his star > > lord, will act according to the dictates of that star lord. With > that in > > mind, we are also well aware that the planet will predominately > offer the > > results of the house in which the star lord is posited, in > addition to the > > house(s) owned by the star lord. Then, the planet itself, offers > the results > > of the house it occupies and the house(s) it owns. So basically > each planet > > has a role to play, and both the star lord and the planet combine > their > > influence to determine whether the event will be favorable or not. > ( If > > unfamiliar with this concept, more examples of how a planet will > act can be > > found in my article > > <http://www.jupitersweb.com/kp_How%20does%20the%20dasha%20lord% > 20function.ht > > m> KP: How Does the Dasha Lord Function?) > > > > So what exactly does Exalted or Debilitated infer? > > Several indicators are simply " givens " in KP, and must not only be > > considered, but must also be both integrated and synthesized into > your > > analysis before a final determination is made. But according to > sizing up an > > event, only the house results are offered - so where does that > leave the > > sign effects that the planet is placed in - such as the planet's > exalted or > > debilitated status? Here is where much confusion seems prevalent > in KP > > assessments- especially when a planet is badly placed in the 8th > or 12th > > house, but simultaneously exalted in status. Or when a planet is > in a > > debilitated state, but posited in the benefic 11th house? How do > we assess > > these results? > > > > Exaltation and debilitation are " strength " and " weakness " > indicators > > respectively, and therefore their specific job is to give us an > idea of how > > much " muscle " (strength or weakness) the planet carries - within > its > > environment - to carry out its function determined by its house > placement. > > So if a planet is strong due to exaltation, but badly placed in > the 12th, > > the planet does not change its role and become good for the 12th > house, but > > rather the effects are that the planet will not hasten to quickly > carry out > > the functions for his position in any given house, and will > therefore > > quickly bring about loss (or other 12th house function) in a very > timely > > manner. Why? Because he has the strength to act quickly and with > no delay, > > and he is very comfortable where he is positioned in his exalted > status. He > > works fast because he is in a happy and exalted state - caring not > that he > > is working quickly to bring about less than fortunate events. He's > just > > doing his job with the muscle provided to do it with. When the > planet has > > established a set of results that need to be carried out due to > his star > > level placement, exaltation does not absolve him of the adverse > results that > > need to be carried out, and subsequently make the results > pleasant. This is > > simply not the way exaltation and debilitation work, nor is it > part of their > > role as " strength indicators " for a planet. The planets do not > give contrary > > results due to their strength status. > > So, also, do we judge the effects of a planet posited in a good > house but in > > the state of debilitation. This debilitated planet will still > carry out the > > positive acts for the house in which he is posited, but his > strength factor > > will not allow him to do so quickly or in a timely manner. So the > result is > > that he will eventually bring the good effects about, but not in a > timely > > manner or with speed under his wings. He only carries enough > strength to > > respond to his mission in a slow and delayed manner because he is > not happy > > being posited where he is and at the degree at which he is > debilitated, but > > he has a job to do and will carry it out and do his job, but NOT > in a manner > > contrary to what his position indicates - it will just be carried > out at a > > snails pace. > > > > More Apparent " Strength " Confusion: > > Now the KP confusion I'm seeing frequently, and the catch to the > > exaltation/debilitation game is this...Exactly WHEN is a planet > considered > > to be exalted or debilitated? Is is just by being posited in the > respective > > signs of exaltation or debilitation - such as Jupiter is considered > > debilitated simply because he is posited in Capricorn? Or Venus is > > considered exalted just because she is posited in Pisces? The > answer to this > > question is no! There are refinements to strengths and weaknesses > that need > > to be addressed before blanket statements are made due to > assessing these > > planetary strengths and weaknesses. For example, is Jupiter, when > posited at > > 15 Cancer, considered to be in an exalted state? No! Why? Jupiter > is exalted > > at 05 Cancer - not at 15 degrees Cancer. Orbs must be set in place > and > > respected for the effects of exalted or debilitated status to be > truly > > effective - sign positions alone are irrelevant when assessing > planetary > > strengths. So to say that a planet is exalted or debilitated > simply because > > it is posited in its sign of exaltation or debilitation is > incorrect - the > > degrees of the sign placement are necessary to determine whether > that planet > > is truly in an exalted or debilitated state. According to my > understanding, > > the KP preferred orb allowance is 50' on either side of its > exaltation or > > debilitation degree - (less than a degree). Below is a Table > showing the > > exalted and debilitated placements. I sincerely hope this further > clarifies > > the position of exaltation versus debilitation. (If the Table > doesn't > > transmit, I have also uploaded this to my site at > > http://www.jupitersweb.com/kp_exaltation.debilitation% > 20revisited.htm > > (With reference to Navamsha positions, my take on this is that in > KP, this > > varga has been used to further refine the strength of a planet). > > > > > > Planet > > Exalted > > Debilitated > > > > Sun > > 10 Degrees Aries > > 10 Degrees Libra > > > > Moon > > 03 Degrees Taurus > > 03 Degrees Scorpio > > > > Mars > > 28 Degrees Capricorn > > 28 Degrees Cancer > > > > Mercury > > 15 Degrees Virgo > > 15 Degrees Pisces > > > > Jupiter > > 05 Degrees Cancer > > 05 Degrees Capricorn > > > > Venus > > 27 Degrees Pisces > > 27 Degrees Virgo > > > > Saturn > > 20 Libra > > 20 Degrees Aries > > > > Rahu > > 20 Degrees Taurus > > 20 Degrees Scorpio > > > > Ketu > > 20 Degrees Scorpio > > 20 Degrees Taurus > > > > <sandy@t...> > > > > > > All the Best, > > > <http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/40.gif> Sandy > > Crowther > > <http://www.jupitersweb.com/> http://www.jupitersweb.com > <http://www.jupitersweb.com/> > > <http://www.jupitersweb.com/> > > > > > > > <http://in.rd./specials/mailtg/*http://.shaadi.com/indi a-matri > mony/> India Matrimony: Find your life partner online > <http://in.rd./specials/mailtg2/*http://.shaadi.com/ind ia-matr > imony/> . > > > _____ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2005 Report Share Posted April 25, 2005 Dear Balaji, Rangarajan, Kanak, and Group, So as to offend no one anymore on this list, this will be my final post here. I simply have no time for this controversy and I am tired of inadvertently upsetting someone over here by a post meant to be of astrological help. I have frequently hesitated to post on this KP list simply because the lid seems to be already tightly closed on the KP System over here, opinions here are strong and forceful, and further investigation is strongly discouraged. I find no acceptance here at all for further research by any seasoned individuals who are researched inclined and have spent years studying astrology - and being forced to stay within the parameters of how someone else perceives the teachings of Prof. K.S.K is simply not acceptable to me. So I will shut my mouth. No hard feelings - I simply have no time for this nonsense. I've done my homework and therefore I blindly follow no one at this stage of my life. We all have different experiences and different opinions, and I value the individuality present in each of us, but personally will not continue to feel the need to watch my back at every post - it's a waste of my time. Having read Prof K.S.K.'s Readers myself, I am of the opinion that Prof. K.S.K strongly encouraged research by serious astrologers or students of astrology and that his system was not meant to be a "closed system" at all, but that is my opinion and perception of his writings, and not my call to make here on this list. Others here have perceived his writings and word as the final word on KP with no additional research or investigation needed, and that is their decision to make and their path to follow also - and I can respect that. But to keep peace and save myself time I don't have in writing posts like this one, I will keep my opinions to myself from this point on. My final comments... I've been studying and practicing astrology for the good part of 35 years, and in my not so humble opinion, assessing planetary strength need not be thrown out simple because it is misunderstood, incorrectly applied, or because we use the star lord and sub lord theory in KP. One is compatible with the other. Yes - I have seen cases where where supposed debilitation didn't work and neither did exaltation for some astrologers - and in those cases, upon closer inspection I found that these planetary strengths were not applied correctly - hence the reason for my post on exaltation/debilitation. So am I going to throw these concepts out? Not a chance. My goal is to attain predictive accuracy - my goal is NOT to walk in restricted astrological areas - I've already been there and done that, and that leaves no room for either personal or professional growth if one is research inclined. To Ranjarajan - I apologize for the confusion. "At a snails pace" is a western term and means moving slowly or sluggishly. It is a terminology used simply to reiterate the fact that a debilitated planet is not happy in his surroundings, and is in no immediate hurry to do what is expected of him. All the Best, Sandy Crowther http://www.jupitersweb.com On Behalf Of Balaji G.krishnanMonday, April 25, 2005 3:42 AM Subject: Re: Re: Exaltation/Debilitation Revisited Dear sandy and all, I am sorry to intervene the discussion going on for a longtime on debilitation and exaltation of planets. One of the major welcoming findings of Great guruji K.S.K is "no planet is debilitated or exalted in K.P".Planets gives the results only by source of its star lord...thats why it is called stellar theory. More over,you can very well see personally on your own many charts having exalted planets gives adverse results and planets debilitated gives good results.Why??...Thats the secret of starlord and sub lord theory. So,may be as a practitioner of traditional astrology or vedic astrology,we can use those concepts for our satisfaction but the truth is that we are not hitting the right spot. I request all the K.P astrologers again to understand the foundation rules and findings of great guruji K.S.K and not to divert else with other insignificant rules. K.P is time-tested,well refined and most scientific method in this modern world. Its a message for all true K.P followers and not to hurt anybody. With regards Balaji GRangarajan Krishnamoorthy <ranga wrote: Dear Sandy,Thanks for a nice posting. However, I don't think I understand what you mean by a debilitated planet offering results "at snails pace" or an exalted planet offering results "quickly". Does this affect timing then? We normally use conjoined period of the effective significators along with transits to establish timing. I can't see how planetary dignity (its strength as you nicely put it) can affect this.Regards,Rangarajan , "Sandy Crowther" <sandycrowther@a...> wrote:> Dear Group,> > There appears to be some prevailing confusion about exactly what Exaltation> and Debilitation actually mean in evaluation of a KP chart. So below is a> brief overview of the planetary interactions, followed by my humble attempt> at explaining the effects of exaltation and debilitation, and their usage in> KP, according to my understanding of the basic and primary teachings of the> KP system.> > What we know already is that a planet moving under the influence of his star> lord, will act according to the dictates of that star lord. With that in> mind, we are also well aware that the planet will predominately offer the> results of the house in which the star lord is posited, in addition to the> house(s) owned by the star lord. Then, the planet itself, offers the results> of the house it occupies and the house(s) it owns. So basically each planet> has a role to play, and both the star lord and the planet combine their> influence to determine whether the event will be favorable or not. ( If> unfamiliar with this concept, more examples of how a planet will act can be> found in my article> <http://www.jupitersweb.com/kp_How%20does%20the%20dasha%20lord%20function.ht> m> KP: How Does the Dasha Lord Function?)> > So what exactly does Exalted or Debilitated infer?> Several indicators are simply "givens" in KP, and must not only be> considered, but must also be both integrated and synthesized into your> analysis before a final determination is made. But according to sizing up an> event, only the house results are offered - so where does that leave the> sign effects that the planet is placed in - such as the planet's exalted or> debilitated status? Here is where much confusion seems prevalent in KP> assessments- especially when a planet is badly placed in the 8th or 12th> house, but simultaneously exalted in status. Or when a planet is in a> debilitated state, but posited in the benefic 11th house? How do we assess> these results?> > Exaltation and debilitation are "strength" and "weakness" indicators> respectively, and therefore their specific job is to give us an idea of how> much "muscle" (strength or weakness) the planet carries - within its> environment - to carry out its function determined by its house placement.> So if a planet is strong due to exaltation, but badly placed in the 12th,> the planet does not change its role and become good for the 12th house, but> rather the effects are that the planet will not hasten to quickly carry out> the functions for his position in any given house, and will therefore> quickly bring about loss (or other 12th house function) in a very timely> manner. Why? Because he has the strength to act quickly and with no delay,> and he is very comfortable where he is positioned in his exalted status. He> works fast because he is in a happy and exalted state - caring not that he> is working quickly to bring about less than fortunate events. He's just> doing his job with the muscle provided to do it with. When the planet has> established a set of results that need to be carried out due to his star> level placement, exaltation does not absolve him of the adverse results that> need to be carried out, and subsequently make the results pleasant. This is> simply not the way exaltation and debilitation work, nor is it part of their> role as "strength indicators" for a planet. The planets do not give contrary> results due to their strength status.> So, also, do we judge the effects of a planet posited in a good house but in> the state of debilitation. This debilitated planet will still carry out the> positive acts for the house in which he is posited, but his strength factor> will not allow him to do so quickly or in a timely manner. So the result is> that he will eventually bring the good effects about, but not in a timely> manner or with speed under his wings. He only carries enough strength to> respond to his mission in a slow and delayed manner because he is not happy> being posited where he is and at the degree at which he is debilitated, but> he has a job to do and will carry it out and do his job, but NOT in a manner> contrary to what his position indicates - it will just be carried out at a> snails pace.> > More Apparent "Strength" Confusion:> Now the KP confusion I'm seeing frequently, and the catch to the> exaltation/debilitation game is this...Exactly WHEN is a planet considered> to be exalted or debilitated? Is is just by being posited in the respective> signs of exaltation or debilitation - such as Jupiter is considered> debilitated simply because he is posited in Capricorn? Or Venus is> considered exalted just because she is posited in Pisces? The answer to this> question is no! There are refinements to strengths and weaknesses that need> to be addressed before blanket statements are made due to assessing these> planetary strengths and weaknesses. For example, is Jupiter, when posited at> 15 Cancer, considered to be in an exalted state? No! Why? Jupiter is exalted> at 05 Cancer - not at 15 degrees Cancer. Orbs must be set in place and> respected for the effects of exalted or debilitated status to be truly> effective - sign positions alone are irrelevant when assessing planetary> strengths. So to say that a planet is exalted or debilitated simply because> it is posited in its sign of exaltation or debilitation is incorrect - the> degrees of the sign placement are necessary to determine whether that planet> is truly in an exalted or debilitated state. According to my understanding,> the KP preferred orb allowance is 50' on either side of its exaltation or> debilitation degree - (less than a degree). Below is a Table showing the> exalted and debilitated placements. I sincerely hope this further clarifies> the position of exaltation versus debilitation. (If the Table doesn't> transmit, I have also uploaded this to my site at> http://www.jupitersweb.com/kp_exaltation.debilitation%20revisited.htm> (With reference to Navamsha positions, my take on this is that in KP, this> varga has been used to further refine the strength of a planet).> > > Planet> Exalted> Debilitated> > Sun> 10 Degrees Aries> 10 Degrees Libra> > Moon> 03 Degrees Taurus> 03 Degrees Scorpio> > Mars> 28 Degrees Capricorn> 28 Degrees Cancer> > Mercury> 15 Degrees Virgo> 15 Degrees Pisces> > Jupiter> 05 Degrees Cancer> 05 Degrees Capricorn> > Venus> 27 Degrees Pisces> 27 Degrees Virgo> > Saturn> 20 Libra> 20 Degrees Aries> > Rahu> 20 Degrees Taurus> 20 Degrees Scorpio> > Ketu> 20 Degrees Scorpio> 20 Degrees Taurus> > <sandy@t...> > > > All the Best,> <http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/40.gif> Sandy> Crowther> <http://www.jupitersweb.com/> http://www.jupitersweb.com > <http://www.jupitersweb.com/> India Matrimony: Find your life partner online. 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Guest guest Posted April 25, 2005 Report Share Posted April 25, 2005 Dear friends, In Kp we are paying much importance to the fructification of some events. Or we are looking for job, marriage, money prospects etc. We analyse these with reference to house of gains[upchaya houses] 2,3,6,10, & 11 to find out the correct results. Because these are important aspects of life [ gains ], Kp is much liked as it point out exact results. However, planets in deblitation and exaltation have their signficance in many ways. Like say an extereme hypothetical case,in Leo lagna star lord is Sun and sublord is Venus which is posted in star of Sun in Libra. Now here deblitation effect of Sun will be highly pronouced. The native will have problems of trust in his life, he will not be relable, weak in his attachments.Lack of courage will also be visisble. In the above case as Sun is chief significator of 1st house and being deblitated will give such negative results. It is another matter if this Sun is again signfy some Upchaya house to give gains to the native inspite of his negative traits. Similarly Mars deblitation [Mars signfying lagna in KP way] may make person weak in strenght, employ unhealthy practices, crooked nature, drinking habits. Similarly other planets have their characterstics. Sun chief representative of lagna[kp way] if exalted may give native a strong character, optimism, arrogance,assertive, victorious.[ but its significance of 8th and 12th may not give him any benefits in life]. Exaltation/Deblitation will definately show their effect if seen in these perspective. Same way if deblitated planets are representing 7th cusp, or 3rd cusp, the problem area is life partner or brother etc. Inder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2005 Report Share Posted April 25, 2005 - Anmohiey Monday, April 25, 2005 8:23 PM Re: Exaltation/Debilitation Revisited Dear Sandy, You have produced a writing from a KP author, which stated that, Later on in this same chapter, the author addresses the fact that the "devil in the astrologer" often gives a blanket reading, and that the astrologer may have made some serious errors (for what could have and should have resulted in a happy marriage), by misrepresenting the real truths behind the concept of debilitation, and thereby spoiling the marital match by declaring it an unfit match through his reading. The result was that the marriage never took place when it should have, and in fact, the union could have resulted in a happy marriage, but never stood the chance due to the astrologer. I really wonder, how come KP astrologer forgotten that, in principle KP always holds firm belief that, 'what has to happen shall happen irrespective of any efforts to divert it or avert it! If any efforts in vain are put that would have been in the fate of the person to take strain" KP don't believe in remedial measure in the same analogy. It seems, some how so called authors are also confused like me! It is just my personal thought! regards, Mohan Hegde. - Sandy Crowther Sunday, April 24, 2005 10:47 PM RE: Exaltation/Debilitation Revisited Dear Anant Raichur and Group, I, too, had not seen an orb reference in any of the KP books and was feeling like this overall planetary "exalted/debilitation" assessment was getting a bit out of hand, but I had nothing concrete in KP to base my gut feelings on. So I was absolutely delighted when I finally came across a KP reference addressing the acceptable orb that should be in place, for exaltation and debilitation to be truly effective. Having located a reference addressing this concern of mine, I then also made both a mental note and a penciled note (in the book) as to where this reference could be checked. So if you have the book "Astrosecrets and Krishnamurti Padhdhati" Part 1, you will fine the reference on page 36 of the Fourth Edition; April 2003. If you do not have the book at hand, below is the direct quote, for your reference: (When he begins his sentence "From this" [first sentence below], he is referring to the preceding planetary star and pada information for debilitation to be in effect). "From this it will be clear that planets in a particular sign, and in a particular pada alone should be considered as exalted or debilitated, and to speak of exaltation or Debilitation other than the said pada will not be correct. Planets moving in a star, gets its exaltation level 50 minutes before approaching the stipulated degree level to exhibit a brilliant light and again attains the normal original brightness 50 minutes after leaving before the same stipulated degree levels." The author then goes on to say: "In the same way debilitation needs to be understood. To repeat, a planet moving in a sign if it is its exaltation house, one should not be blind to say that planet is exalted. Similarly debilitation. That is a planet is exalted at a particular degree level only, and that planet is moving in it exaltation sign are two different things. Such observations contrary to the real, not only of exaltation - debilitation, but several other matters in astrology only make this Astro science a sick one. No doctor can cure such sickness. A deep search and to arrive at the truth alone can cure this malady." Later on in this same chapter, the author addresses the fact that the "devil in the astrologer" often gives a blanket reading, and that the astrologer may have made some serious errors (for what could have and should have resulted in a happy marriage), by misrepresenting the real truths behind the concept of debilitation, and thereby spoiling the marital match by declaring it an unfit match through his reading. The result was that the marriage never took place when it should have, and in fact, the union could have resulted in a happy marriage, but never stood the chance due to the astrologer. (In my opinion - These are errors we must all (as astrologers) concern ourselves with when reading for a client - and only by addressing these subtleties publicly will we all be made more aware of the same, and then more attentive to details). All the Best, Sandy Crowther http://www.jupitersweb.com On Behalf Of anant raichurSunday, April 24, 2005 12:13 PM Subject: Re: Exaltation/Debilitation Revisited Dear Sandy Crowther I fully agree with your views on Exaltation and Debilitation. I however do not recollect where the ORBs are specified. The Signs and Degrees are okay. Any refernce to orbs would help Sandy Crowther <sandycrowther wrote: Dear Group, There appears to be some prevailing confusion about exactly what Exaltation and Debilitation actually mean in evaluation of a KP chart. So below is a brief overview of the planetary interactions, followed by my humble attempt at explaining the effects of exaltation and debilitation, and their usage in KP, according to my understanding of the basic and primary teachings of the KP system. What we know already is that a planet moving under the influence of his star lord, will act according to the dictates of that star lord. With that in mind, we are also well aware that the planet will predominately offer the results of the house in which the star lord is posited, in addition to the house(s) owned by the star lord. Then, the planet itself, offers the results of the house it occupies and the house(s) it owns. So basically each planet has a role to play, and both the star lord and the planet combine their influence to determine whether the event will be favorable or not. ( If unfamiliar with this concept, more examples of how a planet will act can be found in my article KP: How Does the Dasha Lord Function?) So what exactly does Exalted or Debilitated infer? Several indicators are simply "givens" in KP, and must not only be considered, but must also be both integrated and synthesized into your analysis before a final determination is made. But according to sizing up an event, only the house results are offered - so where does that leave the sign effects that the planet is placed in - such as the planet's exalted or debilitated status? Here is where much confusion seems prevalent in KP assessments- especially when a planet is badly placed in the 8th or 12th house, but simultaneously exalted in status. Or when a planet is in a debilitated state, but posited in the benefic 11th house? How do we assess these results? Exaltation and debilitation are "strength" and "weakness" indicators respectively, and therefore their specific job is to give us an idea of how much "muscle" (strength or weakness) the planet carries - within its environment - to carry out its function determined by its house placement. So if a planet is strong due to exaltation, but badly placed in the 12th, the planet does not change its role and become good for the 12th house, but rather the effects are that the planet will not hasten to quickly carry out the functions for his position in any given house, and will therefore quickly bring about loss (or other 12th house function) in a very timely manner. Why? Because he has the strength to act quickly and with no delay, and he is very comfortable where he is positioned in his exalted status. He works fast because he is in a happy and exalted state - caring not that he is working quickly to bring about less than fortunate events. He's just doing his job with the muscle provided to do it with. When the planet has established a set of results that need to be carried out due to his star level placement, exaltation does not absolve him of the adverse results that need to be carried out, and subsequently make the results pleasant. This is simply not the way exaltation and debilitation work, nor is it part of their role as "strength indicators" for a planet. The planets do not give contrary results due to their strength status. So, also, do we judge the effects of a planet posited in a good house but in the state of debilitation. This debilitated planet will still carry out the positive acts for the house in which he is posited, but his strength factor will not allow him to do so quickly or in a timely manner. So the result is that he will eventually bring the good effects about, but not in a timely manner or with speed under his wings. He only carries enough strength to respond to his mission in a slow and delayed manner because he is not happy being posited where he is and at the degree at which he is debilitated, but he has a job to do and will carry it out and do his job, but NOT in a manner contrary to what his position indicates - it will just be carried out at a snails pace. More Apparent "Strength" Confusion: Now the KP confusion I'm seeing frequently, and the catch to the exaltation/debilitation game is this...Exactly WHEN is a planet considered to be exalted or debilitated? Is is just by being posited in the respective signs of exaltation or debilitation - such as Jupiter is considered debilitated simply because he is posited in Capricorn? Or Venus is considered exalted just because she is posited in Pisces? The answer to this question is no! There are refinements to strengths and weaknesses that need to be addressed before blanket statements are made due to assessing these planetary strengths and weaknesses. For example, is Jupiter, when posited at 15 Cancer, considered to be in an exalted state? No! Why? Jupiter is exalted at 05 Cancer - not at 15 degrees Cancer. Orbs must be set in place and respected for the effects of exalted or debilitated status to be truly effective - sign positions alone are irrelevant when assessing planetary strengths. So to say that a planet is exalted or debilitated simply because it is posited in its sign of exaltation or debilitation is incorrect - the degrees of the sign placement are necessary to determine whether that planet is truly in an exalted or debilitated state. According to my understanding, the KP preferred orb allowance is 50' on either side of its exaltation or debilitation degree - (less than a degree). Below is a Table showing the exalted and debilitated placements. I sincerely hope this further clarifies the position of exaltation versus debilitation. (If the Table doesn't transmit, I have also uploaded this to my site at http://www.jupitersweb.com/kp_exaltation.debilitation%20revisited.htm (With reference to Navamsha positions, my take on this is that in KP, this varga has been used to further refine the strength of a planet). Planet Exalted Debilitated Sun 10 Degrees Aries 10 Degrees Libra Moon 03 Degrees Taurus 03 Degrees Scorpio Mars 28 Degrees Capricorn 28 Degrees Cancer Mercury 15 Degrees Virgo 15 Degrees Pisces Jupiter 05 Degrees Cancer 05 Degrees Capricorn Venus 27 Degrees Pisces 27 Degrees Virgo Saturn 20 Libra 20 Degrees Aries Rahu 20 Degrees Taurus 20 Degrees Scorpio Ketu 20 Degrees Scorpio 20 Degrees Taurus All the Best, Sandy Crowther http://www.jupitersweb.com --------- A.R.Raichur bombayanant_1608 raichuranant USE ONE OF THESE ADDRESS ES ONLYtel: 022-2506 2609 --------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2005 Report Share Posted April 25, 2005 Dear Mr. Sandy Crowther, I appreciate you feelings. and I sicerely support you. I had the opportunity to meet Prof. Krishnamurty Personally in his residence in 1971. During discussion on astrology and stellar thoery, he suggested to me to do further reasearch on Navamsa.. I was taking the sub- subsub of planets in Navamsa and tested some of the horoscopes and found to be working. After his sad demise we could not discuss further. So there is no point in sticking to the theory started by KP which he could not complete during his life time. So You are doing the right thing in continuing his theory of reasearch. After retirement I took the astrology in the right earnest. with Regards Sreenivas DesabhatlaSandy Crowther <sandycrowther wrote: Dear Balaji, Rangarajan, Kanak, and Group, So as to offend no one anymore on this list, this will be my final post here. I simply have no time for this controversy and I am tired of inadvertently upsetting someone over here by a post meant to be of astrological help. I have frequently hesitated to post on this KP list simply because the lid seems to be already tightly closed on the KP System over here, opinions here are strong and forceful, and further investigation is strongly discouraged. I find no acceptance here at all for further research by any seasoned individuals who are researched inclined and have spent years studying astrology - and being forced to stay within the parameters of how someone else perceives the teachings of Prof. K.S.K is simply not acceptable to me. So I will shut my mouth. No hard feelings - I simply have no time for this nonsense. I've done my homework and therefore I blindly follow no one at this stage of my life. We all have different experiences and different opinions, and I value the individuality present in each of us, but personally will not continue to feel the need to watch my back at every post - it's a waste of my time. Having read Prof K.S.K.'s Readers myself, I am of the opinion that Prof. K.S.K strongly encouraged research by serious astrologers or students of astrology and that his system was not meant to be a "closed system" at all, but that is my opinion and perception of his writings, and not my call to make here on this list. Others here have perceived his writings and word as the final word on KP with no additional research or investigation needed, and that is their decision to make and their path to follow also - and I can respect that. But to keep peace and save myself time I don't have in writing posts like this one, I will keep my opinions to myself from this point on. My final comments... I've been studying and practicing astrology for the good part of 35 years, and in my not so humble opinion, assessing planetary strength need not be thrown out simple because it is misunderstood, incorrectly applied, or because we use the star lord and sub lord theory in KP. One is compatible with the other. Yes - I have seen cases where where supposed debilitation didn't work and neither did exaltation for some astrologers - and in those cases, upon closer inspection I found that these planetary strengths were not applied correctly - hence the reason for my post on exaltation/debilitation. So am I going to throw these concepts out? Not a chance. My goal is to attain predictive accuracy - my goal is NOT to walk in restricted astrological areas - I've already been there and done that, and that leaves no room for either personal or professional growth if one is research inclined. To Ranjarajan - I apologize for the confusion. "At a snails pace" is a western term and means moving slowly or sluggishly. It is a terminology used simply to reiterate the fact that a debilitated planet is not happy in his surroundings, and is in no immediate hurry to do what is expected of him. All the Best, Sandy Crowther http://www.jupitersweb.com On Behalf Of Balaji G.krishnanMonday, April 25, 2005 3:42 AM Subject: Re: Re: Exaltation/Debilitation Revisited Dear sandy and all, I am sorry to intervene the discussion going on for a longtime on debilitation and exaltation of planets. One of the major welcoming findings of Great guruji K.S.K is "no planet is debilitated or exalted in K.P".Planets gives the results only by source of its star lord...thats why it is called stellar theory. More over,you can very well see personally on your own many charts having exalted planets gives adverse results and planets debilitated gives good results.Why??...Thats the secret of starlord and sub lord theory. So,may be as a practitioner of traditional astrology or vedic astrology,we can use those concepts for our satisfaction but the truth is that we are not hitting the right spot. I request all the K.P astrologers again to understand the foundation rules and findings of great guruji K.S.K and not to divert else with other insignificant rules. K.P is time-tested,well refined and most scientific method in this modern world. Its a message for all true K.P followers and not to hurt anybody. With regards Balaji GRangarajan Krishnamoorthy <ranga wrote: Dear Sandy,Thanks for a nice posting. However, I don't think I understand what you mean by a debilitated planet offering results "at snails pace" or an exalted planet offering results "quickly". Does this affect timing then? We normally use conjoined period of the effective significators along with transits to establish timing. I can't see how planetary dignity (its strength as you nicely put it) can affect this.Regards,Rangarajan , "Sandy Crowther" <sandycrowther@a...> wrote:> Dear Group,> > There appears to be some prevailing confusion about exactly what Exaltation> and Debilitation actually mean in evaluation of a KP chart. So below is a> brief overview of the planetary interactions, followed by my humble attempt> at explaining the effects of exaltation and debilitation, and their usage in> KP, according to my understanding of the basic and primary teachings of the> KP system.> > What we know already is that a planet moving under the influence of his star> lord, will act according to the dictates of that star lord. With that in> mind, we are also well aware that the planet will predominately offer the> results of the house in which the star lord is posited, in addition to the> house(s) owned by the star lord. Then, the planet itself, offers the results> of the house it occupies and the house(s) it owns. So basically each planet> has a role to play, and both the star lord and the planet combine their> influence to determine whether the event will be favorable or not. ( If> unfamiliar with this concept, more examples of how a planet will act can be> found in my article> <http://www.jupitersweb.com/kp_How%20does%20the%20dasha%20lord%20function.ht> m> KP: How Does the Dasha Lord Function?)> > So what exactly does Exalted or Debilitated infer?> Several indicators are simply "givens" in KP, and must not only be> considered, but must also be both integrated and synthesized into your> analysis before a final determination is made. But according to sizing up an> event, only the house results are offered - so where does that leave the> sign effects that the planet is placed in - such as the planet's exalted or> debilitated status? Here is where much confusion seems prevalent in KP> assessments- especially when a planet is badly placed in the 8th or 12th> house, but simultaneously exalted in status. Or when a planet is in a> debilitated state, but posited in the benefic 11th house? How do we assess> these results?> > Exaltation and debilitation are "strength" and "weakness" indicators> respectively, and therefore their specific job is to give us an idea of how> much "muscle" (strength or weakness) the planet carries - within its> environment - to carry out its function determined by its house placement.> So if a planet is strong due to exaltation, but badly placed in the 12th,> the planet does not change its role and become good for the 12th house, but> rather the effects are that the planet will not hasten to quickly carry out> the functions for his position in any given house, and will therefore> quickly bring about loss (or other 12th house function) in a very timely> manner. Why? Because he has the strength to act quickly and with no delay,> and he is very comfortable where he is positioned in his exalted status. He> works fast because he is in a happy and exalted state - caring not that he> is working quickly to bring about less than fortunate events. He's just> doing his job with the muscle provided to do it with. When the planet has> established a set of results that need to be carried out due to his star> level placement, exaltation does not absolve him of the adverse results that> need to be carried out, and subsequently make the results pleasant. This is> simply not the way exaltation and debilitation work, nor is it part of their> role as "strength indicators" for a planet. The planets do not give contrary> results due to their strength status.> So, also, do we judge the effects of a planet posited in a good house but in> the state of debilitation. This debilitated planet will still carry out the> positive acts for the house in which he is posited, but his strength factor> will not allow him to do so quickly or in a timely manner. So the result is> that he will eventually bring the good effects about, but not in a timely> manner or with speed under his wings. He only carries enough strength to> respond to his mission in a slow and delayed manner because he is not happy> being posited where he is and at the degree at which he is debilitated, but> he has a job to do and will carry it out and do his job, but NOT in a manner> contrary to what his position indicates - it will just be carried out at a> snails pace.> > More Apparent "Strength" Confusion:> Now the KP confusion I'm seeing frequently, and the catch to the> exaltation/debilitation game is this...Exactly WHEN is a planet considered> to be exalted or debilitated? Is is just by being posited in the respective> signs of exaltation or debilitation - such as Jupiter is considered> debilitated simply because he is posited in Capricorn? Or Venus is> considered exalted just because she is posited in Pisces? The answer to this> question is no! There are refinements to strengths and weaknesses that need> to be addressed before blanket statements are made due to assessing these> planetary strengths and weaknesses. For example, is Jupiter, when posited at> 15 Cancer, considered to be in an exalted state? No! Why? Jupiter is exalted> at 05 Cancer - not at 15 degrees Cancer. Orbs must be set in place and> respected for the effects of exalted or debilitated status to be truly> effective - sign positions alone are irrelevant when assessing planetary> strengths. So to say that a planet is exalted or debilitated simply because> it is posited in its sign of exaltation or debilitation is incorrect - the> degrees of the sign placement are necessary to determine whether that planet> is truly in an exalted or debilitated state. According to my understanding,> the KP preferred orb allowance is 50' on either side of its exaltation or> debilitation degree - (less than a degree). Below is a Table showing the> exalted and debilitated placements. I sincerely hope this further clarifies> the position of exaltation versus debilitation. (If the Table doesn't> transmit, I have also uploaded this to my site at> http://www.jupitersweb.com/kp_exaltation.debilitation%20revisited.htm> (With reference to Navamsha positions, my take on this is that in KP, this> varga has been used to further refine the strength of a planet).> > > Planet> Exalted> Debilitated> > Sun> 10 Degrees Aries> 10 Degrees Libra> > Moon> 03 Degrees Taurus> 03 Degrees Scorpio> > Mars> 28 Degrees Capricorn> 28 Degrees Cancer> > Mercury> 15 Degrees Virgo> 15 Degrees Pisces> > Jupiter> 05 Degrees Cancer> 05 Degrees Capricorn> > Venus> 27 Degrees Pisces> 27 Degrees Virgo> > Saturn> 20 Libra> 20 Degrees Aries> > Rahu> 20 Degrees Taurus> 20 Degrees Scorpio> > Ketu> 20 Degrees Scorpio> 20 Degrees Taurus> > <sandy@t...> > > > All the Best,> <http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/40.gif> Sandy> Crowther> <http://www.jupitersweb.com/> http://www.jupitersweb.com > <http://www.jupitersweb.com/> India Matrimony: Find your life partner online. India Matrimony: Find your life partner online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2005 Report Share Posted April 25, 2005 Dear Sandy, 1. I'm late to express my gratitude for your excellent posts regarding Chiron, Gulika and exaltation and debilitation, making this group more flexible and open with the support of senior members and contributing for further development of KP and benefits of KP learners, which is consistent with Guruji KSK's remark below. " One should not blindly follow the rules expounded but take pains to find out the truth and understand their Spirit. This is strictly followed by the author. " (KP Reader II, Predictive Stellar Astrology, 183, p 61) 2. Overall view and benefit of the whole group are uncomparably more important than some new members'views which we give respect. But to say it's KP view, solid KSK references are required. 3. Because of such views we better not give up our effort to contribute what ever we can for the lovely spirit of Guruji KSK, especially with your tested high level skills of practical prediction. 4. For reference,below are KSK originals regarding exaltation and debilitation which are not against your posting. Thanks and best regards, tw P.S. I'm late to respond because I'm still waiting for a priority delivery of KP Reader III , Current Edition, to respond Shri Raichur first and calling my elder KP brother back home to check the old version of Krishnamurti Padhdhati in two volumes , checking timeline records of KP Readers publication to respond Punit ji. KP Reader III (Predictive Stellar Astrology) 1) One should take the following delineations when one is to include at the time of judgement. Whether the planet is strong or weak by noting the sign in which it is. Whether it is in a favorable and beneficial sub or in unfavourable sub. -------- (KP Reader III, 1984, Part 1, p 108) 2) A planet is strong when it is in its own or exalted sign. It is weak or afflicted in its detriment or fall (debilitated) sign. Nakshatra Chintamani, p 20; Further Light on Nakshatra Chintamani, p 9) 3) A very wealthy industrialist --- 3 debilitated planets and no Rajayoga. His clerk with four planets in exaltation. (KP Reader III, 1984, Part 2, p 26, possibly in later edition p 199) 4) These planets (in 2,6,10 or 11) may be debilitated or may be in enemy's one's status will improve in their periods and sub-periods, if they are in the sub of the Significators of 2 or 6 or 11. (KP Reader III, 1984, Part 2, p 28, possibly in later edition p 201) 5) Even though a person may be born a King, if his lord of Lagna is eclipsed, in enemy's camp, debilitated and is in 6, 8 or 12 houses associated with the lords of 2 and 7, without any association with a benefic, hemust borrow. (KP Reader III, 1984, Part 2, p 56, possibly in later edition p 229) 6) Moon in Kethu's star who represents Jupiter, strong in his won sign. (KP Reader III, 1984, Part 2, p 85, possibly in later edition p 258) 7) Moon sign is stronger as is conjoined with the benefic Jupiter and the lord of the rasi is in the 9 th sign in exaltation. (KP Reader III, 1984, Part 2, p 139, possibly in later edition p 312) 8) Mars and Jupiter (both are in their own signs and strong). (KP Reader III, 1984, Part 2, p 173, possibly in later edition p 346) 9) Saturn is lord of 11 and 12. It is in 7th house. It is exalted. (KP Reader III, 1984, Part 2, p 204, possibly in later edition p 377) KP Reader IV (Marriage, Married Life & Children) 10) 7th cusp receives aspect directly from Moon, which is its own sign. (KP Reader IV, 1984, p 133) 11) Sun is exalted, Jupiter is in own sign. Both are stronger. (KP Reader IV, 1984, p 145) 12) 11th house is occupied by exalted Jupiter. (KP Reader IV, 1984, p 190) 13) Abortion takes place in that month if that planet ruling that month ill-posted and adversely aspected. Miscarraige will be in that month rued by the planet in debilitation and afflicted. (KP Reader IV, 1984, p 220, under " Pregnancy " after " Adoption " , before Eunchs) 14) Further the sublord is in neechcha with the above mentioned Sun. (i.e. Mars is debilitated.) (KP Reader IV, 1984, p 231, under " When Will I Have a Child? after " Any Child at All " , before " When My Daughter Deliver ? " below the second chart with DOB 8-8-1936) 15) Further Venus is powerful ruling planet as she is in her own sign. (KP Reader IV, 1984, p 238) KP Reader VI (Horary Astrology) 16) As per timeline of KP Readers publication, Krishnamurti Phadhdhati Volume I & II ( which generally includes materials of later Reader III, IV & V) in 1964-65, in Reader I to VI edition in 1970-71 and Reader VI, First Edition in 1970, is the latest Reader before Guruji KSK's death in 1972. More details regarding exaltation and debilitation are in this Reader VI. a) Western consider that a planet situated in its own sign is the strongest. The signs are are in Sayana system. Next in strength is the essential dignity, i.e. exaltation. (KP Reader VI, 1978 Edition, p 144) b) Hindu are of opinion that strong planets will offer invariably advantageous results, were as those who have little strength will do harm. In practice, it is found to be ABSURD. --- Therefore the nature of the result need not be desirable simply because a planet is strong. (KP Reader VI, 1978 Edition, p 145) c) In K.P. (a) if a planet is exalted but is in the constellation of a planet in debilitation, the extent to which it can do either good or bad is limited. A container (the planet) may be big but the content is a cheap affair (lord of the constellation is the content). But a debilitated planet (small planet) in the constellation of a planet in exaltation (costly gems) is similar to diamond in a small packet. The lord of the constellation is to be considered as one representing the value of the content. The container is the planet which is deposited in a constellation. (KP Reader VI, 1978, pp 145-146, under " Strength of Planets " ) d) Then the extent to which one can have the dowry has to be judged, from the strength of the lord of the constellation in which the sublord of the 11 th is deposited. The sublord of the 11th may be debilitated. Yet, if it were to be in the constellation of a planet which is exalted, then the most satisfactory dowry will be received. Even though the sublord of the 11th cvusp may be exalted, yet if it is in the constellation of a planet which is debilitated, then the dowry will be less. Let me compare the debilitated planet for a small container and exalted planet for a big one. If a debilitated planet is a small packet, then the exalted planet, in whose constellation the debilitated planet is , will be similar to diamond in that small packet. Similarly the exalted planet is the huge container who is in the constellation of debilitated planet which shows that the content's value is less like cotton ball. A big cotton packet is not as valuable as a small packet of diamond. Small packet is the debilitated sublord. Diamond is the exalted constellation lord. This is the way how we have to find out whether a debilitated planet or exalted planet maintains its strength. (KP Reader VI, 1978, p 255, under " Can I expect Dowry?) , " Sandy Crowther " <sandycrowther@a...> wrote: > Dear Balaji, Rangarajan, Kanak, and Group, > > So as to offend no one anymore on this list, this will be my final post > here. I simply have no time for this controversy and I am tired of > inadvertently upsetting someone over here by a post meant to be of > astrological help. I have frequently hesitated to post on this KP list > simply because the lid seems to be already tightly closed on the KP System > over here, opinions here are strong and forceful, and further investigation > is strongly discouraged. I find no acceptance here at all for further > research by any seasoned individuals who are researched inclined and have > spent years studying astrology - and being forced to stay within the > parameters of how someone else perceives the teachings of Prof. K.S.K is > simply not acceptable to me. So I will shut my mouth. No hard feelings - I > simply have no time for this nonsense. I've done my homework and therefore I > blindly follow no one at this stage of my life. We all have different > experiences and different opinions, and I value the individuality present in > each of us, but personally will not continue to feel the need to watch my > back at every post - it's a waste of my time. Having read Prof K.S.K.'s > Readers myself, I am of the opinion that Prof. K.S.K strongly encouraged > research by serious astrologers or students of astrology and that his system > was not meant to be a " closed system " at all, but that is my opinion and > perception of his writings, and not my call to make here on this list. > Others here have perceived his writings and word as the final word on KP > with no additional research or investigation needed, and that is their > decision to make and their path to follow also - and I can respect that. But > to keep peace and save myself time I don't have in writing posts like this > one, I will keep my opinions to myself from this point on. My final > comments... > > I've been studying and practicing astrology for the good part of 35 years, > and in my not so humble opinion, assessing planetary strength need not be > thrown out simple because it is misunderstood, incorrectly applied, or > because we use the star lord and sub lord theory in KP. One is compatible > with the other. Yes - I have seen cases where where supposed debilitation > didn't work and neither did exaltation for some astrologers - and in those > cases, upon closer inspection I found that these planetary strengths were > not applied correctly - hence the reason for my post on > exaltation/debilitation. So am I going to throw these concepts out? Not a > chance. My goal is to attain predictive accuracy - my goal is NOT to walk in > restricted astrological areas - I've already been there and done that, and > that leaves no room for either personal or professional growth if one is > research inclined. > > To Ranjarajan - I apologize for the confusion. " At a snails pace " is a > western term and means moving slowly or sluggishly. It is a terminology used > simply to reiterate the fact that a debilitated planet is not happy in his > surroundings, and is in no immediate hurry to do what is expected of him. > > > All the Best, > <http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/40.gif> Sandy > Crowther > <http://www.jupitersweb.com/> http://www.jupitersweb.com > > > > > > > > On > Behalf Of Balaji G.krishnan > Monday, April 25, 2005 3:42 AM > > Re: Re: Exaltation/Debilitation Revisited > > > Dear sandy and all, > > I am sorry to intervene the discussion going on for a longtime on > debilitation and exaltation of planets. > > One of the major welcoming findings of Great guruji K.S.K is " no planet is > debilitated or exalted in K.P " .Planets gives the results only by source of > its star lord...thats why it is called stellar theory. > > More over,you can very well see personally on your own many charts having > exalted planets gives adverse results and planets debilitated gives good > results.Why??...Thats the secret of starlord and sub lord theory. > > So,may be as a practitioner of traditional astrology or vedic astrology,we > can use those concepts for our satisfaction but the truth is that we are not > hitting the right spot. > > I request all the K.P astrologers again to understand the foundation rules > and findings of great guruji K.S.K and not to divert else with other > insignificant rules. > > K.P is time-tested,well refined and most scientific method in this modern > world. > > Its a message for all true K.P followers and not to hurt anybody. > > With regards > Balaji G > Rangarajan Krishnamoorthy <ranga@m...> wrote: > > > Dear Sandy, > Thanks for a nice posting. However, I don't think I understand what > you mean by a debilitated planet offering results " at snails pace " > or an exalted planet offering results " quickly " . Does this affect > timing then? We normally use conjoined period of the effective > significators along with transits to establish timing. I can't see > how planetary dignity (its strength as you nicely put it) can affect > this. > > Regards, > Rangarajan > > , " Sandy Crowther " > <sandycrowther@a...> wrote: > > Dear Group, > > > > There appears to be some prevailing confusion about exactly what > Exaltation > > and Debilitation actually mean in evaluation of a KP chart. So > below is a > > brief overview of the planetary interactions, followed by my > humble attempt > > at explaining the effects of exaltation and debilitation, and > their usage in > > KP, according to my understanding of the basic and primary > teachings of the > > KP system. > > > > What we know already is that a planet moving under the influence > of his star > > lord, will act according to the dictates of that star lord. With > that in > > mind, we are also well aware that the planet will predominately > offer the > > results of the house in which the star lord is posited, in > addition to the > > house(s) owned by the star lord. Then, the planet itself, offers > the results > > of the house it occupies and the house(s) it owns. So basically > each planet > > has a role to play, and both the star lord and the planet combine > their > > influence to determine whether the event will be favorable or not. > ( If > > unfamiliar with this concept, more examples of how a planet will > act can be > > found in my article > > <http://www.jupitersweb.com/kp_How%20does%20the%20dasha%20lord% > 20function.ht > > m> KP: How Does the Dasha Lord Function?) > > > > So what exactly does Exalted or Debilitated infer? > > Several indicators are simply " givens " in KP, and must not only be > > considered, but must also be both integrated and synthesized into > your > > analysis before a final determination is made. But according to > sizing up an > > event, only the house results are offered - so where does that > leave the > > sign effects that the planet is placed in - such as the planet's > exalted or > > debilitated status? Here is where much confusion seems prevalent > in KP > > assessments- especially when a planet is badly placed in the 8th > or 12th > > house, but simultaneously exalted in status. Or when a planet is > in a > > debilitated state, but posited in the benefic 11th house? How do > we assess > > these results? > > > > Exaltation and debilitation are " strength " and " weakness " > indicators > > respectively, and therefore their specific job is to give us an > idea of how > > much " muscle " (strength or weakness) the planet carries - within > its > > environment - to carry out its function determined by its house > placement. > > So if a planet is strong due to exaltation, but badly placed in > the 12th, > > the planet does not change its role and become good for the 12th > house, but > > rather the effects are that the planet will not hasten to quickly > carry out > > the functions for his position in any given house, and will > therefore > > quickly bring about loss (or other 12th house function) in a very > timely > > manner. Why? Because he has the strength to act quickly and with > no delay, > > and he is very comfortable where he is positioned in his exalted > status. He > > works fast because he is in a happy and exalted state - caring not > that he > > is working quickly to bring about less than fortunate events. He's > just > > doing his job with the muscle provided to do it with. When the > planet has > > established a set of results that need to be carried out due to > his star > > level placement, exaltation does not absolve him of the adverse > results that > > need to be carried out, and subsequently make the results > pleasant. This is > > simply not the way exaltation and debilitation work, nor is it > part of their > > role as " strength indicators " for a planet. The planets do not > give contrary > > results due to their strength status. > > So, also, do we judge the effects of a planet posited in a good > house but in > > the state of debilitation. This debilitated planet will still > carry out the > > positive acts for the house in which he is posited, but his > strength factor > > will not allow him to do so quickly or in a timely manner. So the > result is > > that he will eventually bring the good effects about, but not in a > timely > > manner or with speed under his wings. He only carries enough > strength to > > respond to his mission in a slow and delayed manner because he is > not happy > > being posited where he is and at the degree at which he is > debilitated, but > > he has a job to do and will carry it out and do his job, but NOT > in a manner > > contrary to what his position indicates - it will just be carried > out at a > > snails pace. > > > > More Apparent " Strength " Confusion: > > Now the KP confusion I'm seeing frequently, and the catch to the > > exaltation/debilitation game is this...Exactly WHEN is a planet > considered > > to be exalted or debilitated? Is is just by being posited in the > respective > > signs of exaltation or debilitation - such as Jupiter is considered > > debilitated simply because he is posited in Capricorn? Or Venus is > > considered exalted just because she is posited in Pisces? The > answer to this > > question is no! There are refinements to strengths and weaknesses > that need > > to be addressed before blanket statements are made due to > assessing these > > planetary strengths and weaknesses. For example, is Jupiter, when > posited at > > 15 Cancer, considered to be in an exalted state? No! Why? Jupiter > is exalted > > at 05 Cancer - not at 15 degrees Cancer. Orbs must be set in place > and > > respected for the effects of exalted or debilitated status to be > truly > > effective - sign positions alone are irrelevant when assessing > planetary > > strengths. So to say that a planet is exalted or debilitated > simply because > > it is posited in its sign of exaltation or debilitation is > incorrect - the > > degrees of the sign placement are necessary to determine whether > that planet > > is truly in an exalted or debilitated state. According to my > understanding, > > the KP preferred orb allowance is 50' on either side of its > exaltation or > > debilitation degree - (less than a degree). Below is a Table > showing the > > exalted and debilitated placements. I sincerely hope this further > clarifies > > the position of exaltation versus debilitation. (If the Table > doesn't > > transmit, I have also uploaded this to my site at > > http://www.jupitersweb.com/kp_exaltation.debilitation% > 20revisited.htm > > (With reference to Navamsha positions, my take on this is that in > KP, this > > varga has been used to further refine the strength of a planet). > > > > > > Planet > > Exalted > > Debilitated > > > > Sun > > 10 Degrees Aries > > 10 Degrees Libra > > > > Moon > > 03 Degrees Taurus > > 03 Degrees Scorpio > > > > Mars > > 28 Degrees Capricorn > > 28 Degrees Cancer > > > > Mercury > > 15 Degrees Virgo > > 15 Degrees Pisces > > > > Jupiter > > 05 Degrees Cancer > > 05 Degrees Capricorn > > > > Venus > > 27 Degrees Pisces > > 27 Degrees Virgo > > > > Saturn > > 20 Libra > > 20 Degrees Aries > > > > Rahu > > 20 Degrees Taurus > > 20 Degrees Scorpio > > > > Ketu > > 20 Degrees Scorpio > > 20 Degrees Taurus > > > > <sandy@t...> > > > > > > All the Best, > > > <http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/40.gif> Sandy > > Crowther > > <http://www.jupitersweb.com/> http://www.jupitersweb.com > <http://www.jupitersweb.com/> > > <http://www.jupitersweb.com/> > > > > > > > <http://in.rd./specials/mailtg/*http://.shaadi.com/indi a-matri > mony/> India Matrimony: Find your life partner online > <http://in.rd./specials/mailtg2/*http://.shaadi.com/ind ia-matr > imony/> . > > > _____ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2005 Report Share Posted April 25, 2005 Rangarajan, I suspect that exaltation and debilitation points are cosmic points of intensity. They may have a narrow spread such as a laser, or they might have waning influence the further away from the central point. Depends on your preference and experience. Nevertheless a planet approaches one of these points with an orb of influence. Therefore in my book the effect should be felt a little distance away, so I work on a 5* orb to these points. Ron Gaunt On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 05:54:16 -0000, you wrote: > > >Dear Ron, >The orbs you suggest look acceptable for aspect calculation, but >wouldn't these be too " wide " for determining exaltation / >debilitation / Mootrikona? Personally I would prefer a tighter orb, >close to what Shanmugham has mentioned. > >Regards, >Rangarajan > > , " rongaunt@b... au " ><rongaunt@b...> wrote: >> >> Dear Sandy, et al, >> >> The clearest 'proof' of aspects has been shown by Nelson on his >> research on the influence of cosmic patterns on radio waves in >> communications. If you go to 'Recent Advances in Natal >> Astrology' page 340 you will see the bell curve of observed >> aspects. You will note that there is high intensity up to >> 1*. This is what the author of Astrosecrets may be implying >> when he says ' gets its exaltation level 50 minutes before >> approaching' and leaving the stipulated degree. Does this >> mean that exaltation should be restricted to this 50'. I >> suspect not, because the bell curve shows clearly that up to >> around 2* to 2.5* there is still considerable influence in >> aspects. After 5* this becomes minimal. It is interesting to >> note that the bell curve is uniform ie departing aspects are >> exactly the same as applying. >> >> I always found it confusing using Hindu whole sign aspects >> as they tend to bring in too many other planets into the >> equation. I also found many to be totally irrelevant to the >> point at issue. Accordingly I now use Western aspects >> of 5* for major aspects and 2.5* - 3* for minor. I find this >> works well with KP and Horary. >> >> >> Ron Gaunt >> >> >> >> On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 13:17:06 -0400, you wrote: >> >> >Dear Anant Raichur and Group, >> > >> >I, too, had not seen an orb reference in any of the KP books and >was feeling >> >like this overall planetary " exalted/debilitation " assessment was >getting a >> >bit out of hand, but I had nothing concrete in KP to base my gut >feelings >> >on. So I was absolutely delighted when I finally came across a KP >reference >> >addressing the acceptable orb that should be in place, for >exaltation and >> >debilitation to be truly effective. Having located a reference >addressing >> >this concern of mine, I then also made both a mental note and a >penciled >> >note (in the book) as to where this reference could be checked. >> > >> >So if you have the book " Astrosecrets and Krishnamurti Padhdhati " >Part 1, >> >you will fine the reference on page 36 of the Fourth Edition; >April 2003. >> > >> >If you do not have the book at hand, below is the direct quote, >for your >> >reference: (When he begins his sentence " From this " [first >sentence below], >> >he is referring to the preceding planetary star and pada >information for >> >debilitation to be in effect). >> > >> > " From this it will be clear that planets in a particular sign, >and in a >> >particular pada alone should be considered as exalted or >debilitated, and to >> >speak of exaltation or Debilitation other than the said pada will >not be >> >correct. Planets moving in a star, gets its exaltation level 50 >minutes >> >before approaching the stipulated degree level to exhibit a >brilliant light >> >and again attains the normal original brightness 50 minutes after >leaving >> >before the same stipulated degree levels. " >> > >> >The author then goes on to say: >> > >> > " In the same way debilitation needs to be understood. To repeat, >a planet >> >moving in a sign if it is its exaltation house, one should not be >blind to >> >say that planet is exalted. Similarly debilitation. That is a >planet is >> >exalted at a particular degree level only, and that planet is >moving in it >> >exaltation sign are two different things. Such observations >contrary to the >> >real, not only of exaltation - debilitation, but several other >matters in >> >astrology only make this Astro science a sick one. No doctor can >cure such >> >sickness. A deep search and to arrive at the truth alone can cure >this >> >malady. " >> > >> >Later on in this same chapter, the author addresses the fact that >the " devil >> >in the astrologer " often gives a blanket reading, and that the >astrologer >> >may have made some serious errors (for what could have and should >have >> >resulted in a happy marriage), by misrepresenting the real truths >behind the >> >concept of debilitation, and thereby spoiling the marital match >by declaring >> >it an unfit match through his reading. The result was that the >marriage >> >never took place when it should have, and in fact, the union >could have >> >resulted in a happy marriage, but never stood the chance due to >the >> >astrologer. (In my opinion - These are errors we must all (as >astrologers) >> >concern ourselves with when reading for a client - and only by >addressing >> >these subtleties publicly will we all be made more aware of the >same, and >> >then more attentive to details). >> > >> > >> > All the Best, >> > ><http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/40.gif> Sandy >> >Crowther >> > <http://www.jupitersweb.com/> http://www.jupitersweb.com >> > >> > >> > >> > > On >> >Behalf Of anant raichur >> >Sunday, April 24, 2005 12:13 PM >> > >> >Re: Exaltation/Debilitation Revisited >> > >> > >> >Dear Sandy Crowther >> > >> >I fully agree with your views on Exaltation and Debilitation. I >however do >> >not recollect where >> > >> >the ORBs are specified. The Signs and Degrees are okay. >> > >> >Any refernce to orbs would help >> > >> > >> >Sandy Crowther <sandycrowther@a...> wrote: >> > >> >Dear Group, >> > >> >There appears to be some prevailing confusion about exactly what >Exaltation >> >and Debilitation actually mean in evaluation of a KP chart. So >below is a >> >brief overview of the planetary interactions, followed by my >humble attempt >> >at explaining the effects of exaltation and debilitation, and >their usage in >> >KP, according to my understanding of the basic and primary >teachings of the >> >KP system. >> > >> >What we know already is that a planet moving under the influence >of his star >> >lord, will act according to the dictates of that star lord. With >that in >> >mind, we are also well aware that the planet will predominately >offer the >> >results of the house in which the star lord is posited, in >addition to the >> >house(s) owned by the star lord. Then, the planet itself, offers >the results >> >of the house it occupies and the house(s) it owns. So basically >each planet >> >has a role to play, and both the star lord and the planet combine >their >> >influence to determine whether the event will be favorable or >not. ( If >> >unfamiliar with this concept, more examples of how a planet will >act can be >> >found in my article >> ><http://www.jupitersweb.com/kp_How%20does%20the%20dasha%20lord% >20function.ht >> >m> KP: How Does the Dasha Lord Function?) >> > >> >So what exactly does Exalted or Debilitated infer? >> >Several indicators are simply " givens " in KP, and must not only be >> >considered, but must also be both integrated and synthesized into >your >> >analysis before a final determination is made. But according to >sizing up an >> >event, only the house results are offered - so where does that >leave the >> >sign effects that the planet is placed in - such as the planet's >exalted or >> >debilitated status? Here is where much confusion seems prevalent >in KP >> >assessments- especially when a planet is badly placed in the 8th >or 12th >> >house, but simultaneously exalted in status. Or when a planet is >in a >> >debilitated state, but posited in the benefic 11th house? How do >we assess >> >these results? >> > >> >Exaltation and debilitation are " strength " and " weakness " >indicators >> >respectively, and therefore their specific job is to give us an >idea of how >> >much " muscle " (strength or weakness) the planet carries - within >its >> >environment - to carry out its function determined by its house >placement. >> >So if a planet is strong due to exaltation, but badly placed in >the 12th, >> >the planet does not change its role and become good for the 12th >house, but >> >rather the effects are that the planet will not hasten to quickly >carry out >> >the functions for his position in any given house, and will >therefore >> >quickly bring about loss (or other 12th house function) in a very >timely >> >manner. Why? Because he has the strength to act quickly and with >no delay, >> >and he is very comfortable where he is positioned in his exalted >status. He >> >works fast because he is in a happy and exalted state - caring >not that he >> >is working quickly to bring about less than fortunate events. >He's just >> >doing his job with the muscle provided to do it with. When the >planet has >> >established a set of results that need to be carried out due to >his star >> >level placement, exaltation does not absolve him of the adverse >results that >> >need to be carried out, and subsequently make the results >pleasant. This is >> >simply not the way exaltation and debilitation work, nor is it >part of their >> >role as " strength indicators " for a planet. The planets do not >give contrary >> >results due to their strength status. >> >So, also, do we judge the effects of a planet posited in a good >house but in >> >the state of debilitation. This debilitated planet will still >carry out the >> >positive acts for the house in which he is posited, but his >strength factor >> >will not allow him to do so quickly or in a timely manner. So the >result is >> >that he will eventually bring the good effects about, but not in >a timely >> >manner or with speed under his wings. He only carries enough >strength to >> >respond to his mission in a slow and delayed manner because he is >not happy >> >being posited where he is and at the degree at which he is >debilitated, but >> >he has a job to do and will carry it out and do his job, but NOT >in a manner >> >contrary to what his position indicates - it will just be carried >out at a >> >snails pace. >> > >> >More Apparent " Strength " Confusion: >> >Now the KP confusion I'm seeing frequently, and the catch to the >> >exaltation/debilitation game is this...Exactly WHEN is a planet >considered >> >to be exalted or debilitated? Is is just by being posited in the >respective >> >signs of exaltation or debilitation - such as Jupiter is >considered >> >debilitated simply because he is posited in Capricorn? Or Venus is >> >considered exalted just because she is posited in Pisces? The >answer to this >> >question is no! There are refinements to strengths and weaknesses >that need >> >to be addressed before blanket statements are made due to >assessing these >> >planetary strengths and weaknesses. For example, is Jupiter, when >posited at >> >15 Cancer, considered to be in an exalted state? No! Why? Jupiter >is exalted >> >at 05 Cancer - not at 15 degrees Cancer. Orbs must be set in >place and >> >respected for the effects of exalted or debilitated status to be >truly >> >effective - sign positions alone are irrelevant when assessing >planetary >> >strengths. So to say that a planet is exalted or debilitated >simply because >> >it is posited in its sign of exaltation or debilitation is >incorrect - the >> >degrees of the sign placement are necessary to determine whether >that planet >> >is truly in an exalted or debilitated state. According to my >understanding, >> >the KP preferred orb allowance is 50' on either side of its >exaltation or >> >debilitation degree - (less than a degree). Below is a Table >showing the >> >exalted and debilitated placements. I sincerely hope this further >clarifies >> >the position of exaltation versus debilitation. (If the Table >doesn't >> >transmit, I have also uploaded this to my site at >> >http://www.jupitersweb.com/kp_exaltation.debilitation% >20revisited.htm >> >(With reference to Navamsha positions, my take on this is that >in KP, this >> >varga has been used to further refine the strength of a planet). >> > >> > >> >Planet >> >Exalted >> >Debilitated >> > >> >Sun >> >10 Degrees Aries >> >10 Degrees Libra >> > >> >Moon >> >03 Degrees Taurus >> >03 Degrees Scorpio >> > >> >Mars >> >28 Degrees Capricorn >> >28 Degrees Cancer >> > >> >Mercury >> >15 Degrees Virgo >> >15 Degrees Pisces >> > >> >Jupiter >> >05 Degrees Cancer >> >05 Degrees Capricorn >> > >> >Venus >> >27 Degrees Pisces >> >27 Degrees Virgo >> > >> >Saturn >> >20 Libra >> >20 Degrees Aries >> > >> >Rahu >> >20 Degrees Taurus >> >20 Degrees Scorpio >> > >> >Ketu >> >20 Degrees Scorpio >> >20 Degrees Taurus >> > >> > <sandy@t...> >> > >> > >> > All the Best, >> > ><http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/40.gif> Sandy >> >Crowther >> > <http://www.jupitersweb.com/> http://www.jupitersweb.com >> > <http://www.jupitersweb.com/> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >--------- >> >A.R.Raichur bombay >> >anant_1608 >> >raichuranant >> >USE ONE OF THESE ADDRESS ES ONLY >> >tel: 022-2506 2609 >> >--------- >> > >> > >> > >> > _____ >> > >> > >> > Small Business - Try >> >><http://us.rd./evt=31637/*http://smallbusiness./re >sources/ >> >> our new resources site! >> > >> > _____ >> > >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2005 Report Share Posted April 26, 2005 Sandy ji, I am unable to understand the reason behind your upset. In a forum of 600 members, few will be takers of your thought and few will no be. Everyone works his/ her own way. But as a group policy, no one is ever restricted to present new thoughts and ideas. I myself, though the strong believer of KP, use ideas from various different branches of astrology as that works for me. But you should never think that your ideas/ research will be accepted so early. It took years to Sri KSK to get his research accepted. You will have to wait and work patiently, only that way you views can be useful for others. You will have to supplement your research/ views with sufficient examples. Regards, Punit Pandey On 4/25/05, Sandy Crowther <sandycrowther wrote: Dear Balaji, Rangarajan, Kanak, and Group, So as to offend no one anymore on this list, this will be my final post here. I simply have no time for this controversy and I am tired of inadvertently upsetting someone over here by a post meant to be of astrological help. I have frequently hesitated to post on this KP list simply because the lid seems to be already tightly closed on the KP System over here, opinions here are strong and forceful, and further investigation is strongly discouraged. I find no acceptance here at all for further research by any seasoned individuals who are researched inclined and have spent years studying astrology - and being forced to stay within the parameters of how someone else perceives the teachings of Prof. K.S.K is simply not acceptable to me. So I will shut my mouth. No hard feelings - I simply have no time for this nonsense. I've done my homework and therefore I blindly follow no one at this stage of my life. We all have different experiences and different opinions, and I value the individuality present in each of us, but personally will not continue to feel the need to watch my back at every post - it's a waste of my time. Having read Prof K.S.K.'s Readers myself, I am of the opinion that Prof. K.S.K strongly encouraged research by serious astrologers or students of astrology and that his system was not meant to be a " closed system " at all, but that is my opinion and perception of his writings, and not my call to make here on this list. Others here have perceived his writings and word as the final word on KP with no additional research or investigation needed, and that is their decision to make and their path to follow also - and I can respect that. But to keep peace and save myself time I don't have in writing posts like this one, I will keep my opinions to myself from this point on. My final comments... I've been studying and practicing astrology for the good part of 35 years, and in my not so humble opinion, assessing planetary strength need not be thrown out simple because it is misunderstood, incorrectly applied, or because we use the star lord and sub lord theory in KP. One is compatible with the other. Yes - I have seen cases where where supposed debilitation didn't work and neither did exaltation for some astrologers - and in those cases, upon closer inspection I found that these planetary strengths were not applied correctly - hence the reason for my post on exaltation/debilitation. So am I going to throw these concepts out? Not a chance. My goal is to attain predictive accuracy - my goal is NOT to walk in restricted astrological areas - I've already been there and done that, and that leaves no room for either personal or professional growth if one is research inclined. To Ranjarajan - I apologize for the confusion. " At a snails pace " is a western term and means moving slowly or sluggishly. It is a terminology used simply to reiterate the fact that a debilitated planet is not happy in his surroundings, and is in no immediate hurry to do what is expected of him. All the Best, Sandy Crowther http://www.jupitersweb.com On Behalf Of Balaji G.krishnan Monday, April 25, 2005 3:42 AM Re: Re: Exaltation/Debilitation Revisited Dear sandy and all, I am sorry to intervene the discussion going on for a longtime on debilitation and exaltation of planets. One of the major welcoming findings of Great guruji K.S.K is " no planet is debilitated or exalted in K.P " .Planets gives the results only by source of its star lord...thats why it is called stellar theory. More over,you can very well see personally on your own many charts having exalted planets gives adverse results and planets debilitated gives good results.Why??...Thats the secret of starlord and sub lord theory. So,may be as a practitioner of traditional astrology or vedic astrology,we can use those concepts for our satisfaction but the truth is that we are not hitting the right spot. I request all the K.P astrologers again to understand the foundation rules and findings of great guruji K.S.K and not to divert else with other insignificant rules. K.P is time-tested,well refined and most scientific method in this modern world. Its a message for all true K.P followers and not to hurt anybody. With regards Balaji GRangarajan Krishnamoorthy <ranga wrote: Dear Sandy,Thanks for a nice posting. However, I don't think I understand what you mean by a debilitated planet offering results " at snails pace " or an exalted planet offering results " quickly " . Does this affect timing then? We normally use conjoined period of the effective significators along with transits to establish timing. I can't see how planetary dignity (its strength as you nicely put it) can affect this.Regards,Rangarajan , " Sandy Crowther " <sandycrowther@a...> wrote:> Dear Group,> > There appears to be some prevailing confusion about exactly what Exaltation> and Debilitation actually mean in evaluation of a KP chart. So below is a> brief overview of the planetary interactions, followed by my humble attempt> at explaining the effects of exaltation and debilitation, and their usage in> KP, according to my understanding of the basic and primary teachings of the> KP system.> > What we know already is that a planet moving under the influence of his star> lord, will act according to the dictates of that star lord. With that in > mind, we are also well aware that the planet will predominately offer the> results of the house in which the star lord is posited, in addition to the> house(s) owned by the star lord. Then, the planet itself, offers the results> of the house it occupies and the house(s) it owns. So basically each planet> has a role to play, and both the star lord and the planet combine their> influence to determine whether the event will be favorable or not. ( If> unfamiliar with this concept, more examples of how a planet will act can be> found in my article> < http://www.jupitersweb.com/kp_How%20does%20the%20dasha%20lord%20function.ht> m> KP: How Does the Dasha Lord Function?)> > So what exactly does Exalted or Debilitated infer?> Several indicators are simply " givens " in KP, and must not only be > considered, but must also be both integrated and synthesized into your> analysis before a final determination is made. But according to sizing up an> event, only the house results are offered - so where does that leave the> sign effects that the planet is placed in - such as the planet's exalted or> debilitated status? Here is where much confusion seems prevalent in KP> assessments- especially when a planet is badly placed in the 8th or 12th> house, but simultaneously exalted in status. Or when a planet is in a> debilitated state, but posited in the benefic 11th house? How do we assess> these results?> > Exaltation and debilitation are " strength " and " weakness " indicators> respectively, and therefore their specific job is to give us an idea of how> much " muscle " (strength or weakness) the planet carries - within its> environment - to carry out its function determined by its house placement.> So if a planet is strong due to exaltation, but badly placed in the 12th,> the planet does not change its role and become good for the 12th house, but> rather the effects are that the planet will not hasten to quickly carry out> the functions for his position in any given house, and will therefore> quickly bring about loss (or other 12th house function) in a very timely> manner. Why? Because he has the strength to act quickly and with no delay,> and he is very comfortable where he is positioned in his exalted status. He> works fast because he is in a happy and exalted state - caring not that he> is working quickly to bring about less than fortunate events. He's just> doing his job with the muscle provided to do it with. When the planet has> established a set of results that need to be carried out due to his star> level placement, exaltation does not absolve him of the adverse results that> need to be carried out, and subsequently make the results pleasant. This is> simply not the way exaltation and debilitation work, nor is it part of their> role as " strength indicators " for a planet. The planets do not give contrary> results due to their strength status.> So, also, do we judge the effects of a planet posited in a good house but in> the state of debilitation. This debilitated planet will still carry out the> positive acts for the house in which he is posited, but his strength factor> will not allow him to do so quickly or in a timely manner. So the result is> that he will eventually bring the good effects about, but not in a timely> manner or with speed under his wings. He only carries enough strength to> respond to his mission in a slow and delayed manner because he is not happy> being posited where he is and at the degree at which he is debilitated, but> he has a job to do and will carry it out and do his job, but NOT in a manner> contrary to what his position indicates - it will just be carried out at a> snails pace. > > More Apparent " Strength " Confusion:> Now the KP confusion I'm seeing frequently, and the catch to the> exaltation/debilitation game is this...Exactly WHEN is a planet considered > to be exalted or debilitated? Is is just by being posited in the respective> signs of exaltation or debilitation - such as Jupiter is considered> debilitated simply because he is posited in Capricorn? Or Venus is > considered exalted just because she is posited in Pisces? The answer to this> question is no! There are refinements to strengths and weaknesses that need> to be addressed before blanket statements are made due to assessing these> planetary strengths and weaknesses. For example, is Jupiter, when posited at> 15 Cancer, considered to be in an exalted state? No! Why? Jupiter is exalted> at 05 Cancer - not at 15 degrees Cancer. Orbs must be set in place and> respected for the effects of exalted or debilitated status to be truly> effective - sign positions alone are irrelevant when assessing planetary> strengths. So to say that a planet is exalted or debilitated simply because> it is posited in its sign of exaltation or debilitation is incorrect - the> degrees of the sign placement are necessary to determine whether that planet> is truly in an exalted or debilitated state. According to my understanding,> the KP preferred orb allowance is 50' on either side of its exaltation or> debilitation degree - (less than a degree). Below is a Table showing the> exalted and debilitated placements. I sincerely hope this further clarifies> the position of exaltation versus debilitation. (If the Table doesn't> transmit, I have also uploaded this to my site at> http://www.jupitersweb.com/kp_exaltation.debilitation%20revisited.htm> (With reference to Navamsha positions, my take on this is that in KP, this> varga has been used to further refine the strength of a planet). > > > Planet> Exalted> Debilitated> > Sun> 10 Degrees Aries> 10 Degrees Libra> > Moon> 03 Degrees Taurus> 03 Degrees Scorpio> > Mars> 28 Degrees Capricorn> 28 Degrees Cancer> > Mercury> 15 Degrees Virgo> 15 Degrees Pisces> > Jupiter> 05 Degrees Cancer> 05 Degrees Capricorn > > Venus> 27 Degrees Pisces> 27 Degrees Virgo> > Saturn> 20 Libra> 20 Degrees Aries> > Rahu> 20 Degrees Taurus> 20 Degrees Scorpio> > Ketu> 20 Degrees Scorpio> 20 Degrees Taurus> > <sandy@t...> > > > All the Best,> <http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/40.gif > Sandy> Crowther> <http://www.jupitersweb.com/> http://www.jupitersweb.com > <http://www.jupitersweb.com/> India Matrimony : Find your life partner online. 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Guest guest Posted April 26, 2005 Report Share Posted April 26, 2005 Dear Sandy, I fully agree with Punitji's views.You are an asset to our group.Please do not move away. Sunil D.Joshi. --- Punit Pandey <punitp wrote: > Sandy ji, > > I am unable to understand the reason behind your > upset. In a forum of 600 > members, few will be takers of your thought and few > will no be. Everyone > works his/ her own way. But as a group policy, no > one is ever restricted to > present new thoughts and ideas. I myself, though the > strong believer of KP, > use ideas from various different branches of > astrology as that works for me. > But you should never think that your ideas/ research > will be accepted so > early. It took years to Sri KSK to get his research > accepted. You will have > to wait and work patiently, only that way you views > can be useful for > others. You will have to supplement your research/ > views with sufficient > examples. > > Regards, > > Punit Pandey > > > On 4/25/05, Sandy Crowther > <sandycrowther wrote: > > > > Dear Balaji, Rangarajan, Kanak, and Group, > > So as to offend no one anymore on this list, this > will be my final post > > here. I simply have no time for this controversy > and I am tired of > > inadvertently upsetting someone over here by a > post meant to be of > > astrological help. I have frequently hesitated to > post on this KP list > > simply because the lid seems to be already tightly > closed on the KP System > > over here, opinions here are strong and forceful, > and further investigation > > is strongly discouraged. I find no acceptance here > at all for further > > research by any seasoned individuals who are > researched inclined and have > > spent years studying astrology - and being forced > to stay within the > > parameters of how someone else perceives the > teachings of Prof. K.S.K is > > simply not acceptable to me. So I will shut my > mouth. No hard feelings - I > > simply have no time for this nonsense. I've done > my homework and therefore I > > blindly follow no one at this stage of my life. We > all have different > > experiences and different opinions, and I value > the individuality present in > > each of us, but personally will not continue to > feel the need to watch my > > back at every post - it's a waste of my time. > Having read Prof K.S.K.'sReaders myself, I am of the > opinion that Prof. > > K.S.K strongly encouraged research by serious > astrologers or students of > > astrology and that his system was not meant to be > a " closed system " at all, > > but that is my opinion and perception of his > writings, and not my call to > > make here on this list. Others here have perceived > his writings and word as > > the final word on KP with no additional research > or investigation needed, > > and that is their decision to make and their path > to follow also - and I can > > respect that. But to keep peace and save myself > time I don't have in writing > > posts like this one, I will keep my opinions to > myself from this point on. > > My final comments... > > I've been studying and practicing astrology for > the good part of 35 > > years, and in my not so humble opinion, assessing > planetary strength need > > not be thrown out simple because it is > misunderstood, incorrectly applied, > > or because we use the star lord and sub lord > theory in KP. One is compatible > > with the other. Yes - I have seen cases where > where supposed debilitation > > didn't work and neither did exaltation for some > astrologers - and in those > > cases, upon closer inspection I found that these > planetary strengths were > > not applied correctly - hence the reason for my > post on > > exaltation/debilitation. So am I going to throw > these concepts out? Not a > > chance. My goal is to attain predictive accuracy - > my goal is NOT to walk in > > restricted astrological areas - I've already been > there and done that, and > > that leaves no room for either personal or > professional growth if one is > > research inclined. > > To Ranjarajan - I apologize for the confusion. > " At a snails pace " is a > > western term and means moving slowly or > sluggishly. It is a terminology used > > simply to reiterate the fact that a debilitated > planet is not happy in his > > surroundings, and is in no immediate hurry to do > what is expected of him. > > All the Best, > > Sandy Crowther > > http://www.jupitersweb.com > > > > > > ** > *On > > Behalf Of *Balaji G.krishnan > > *Sent:* Monday, April 25, 2005 3:42 AM > > *To:* > > *Subject:* Re: Re: > Exaltation/Debilitation Revisited > > > > Dear sandy and all, > > I am sorry to intervene the discussion going on > for a longtime on > > debilitation and exaltation of planets. > > One of the major welcoming findings of Great > guruji K.S.K is " no planet > > is debilitated or exalted in K.P " .Planets gives > the results only by source > > of its star lord...thats why it is called stellar > theory. > > > > More over,you can very well see personally on your > own many charts having > > exalted planets gives adverse results and planets > debilitated gives good > > results.Why??...Thats the secret of starlord and > sub lord theory. > > So,may be as a practitioner of traditional > astrology or vedic > > astrology,we can use those concepts for our > satisfaction but the truth is > > that we are not hitting the right spot. > > I request all the K.P astrologers again to > understand the foundation > > rules and findings of great guruji K.S.K and not > to divert else with other > > insignificant rules. > > K.P is time-tested,well refined and most > scientific method in this modern > > world. > > Its a message for all true K.P followers and not > to hurt anybody. > > With regards > > Balaji G > > *Rangarajan Krishnamoorthy <ranga* > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sandy, > > Thanks for a nice posting. However, I don't think > I understand what > > you mean by a debilitated planet offering results > " at snails pace " > > or an exalted planet offering results " quickly " . > Does this affect > > timing then? We normally use conjoined period of > the effective > > significators along with transits to establish > timing. I can't see > > how planetary dignity (its strength as you nicely > put it) can affect > > this. > > > > Regards, > > Rangarajan > > > > , " Sandy > Crowther " > > <sandycrowther@a...> wrote: > > > Dear Group, > > > > > > There appears to be some prevailing confusion > about exactly what > > Exaltation > > > and Debilitation actually mean in evaluation of > a KP chart. So > > below is a > > > brief overview of the planetary interactions, > followed by my > > humble attempt > > > at explaining the effects of exaltation and > debilitation, and > > their usage in > > > KP, according to my understanding of the basic > and === message truncated === Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2005 Report Share Posted April 26, 2005 Rangarajan, I suspect that exaltation and debilitation points are cosmic points of intensity. They may have a narrow spread such as a laser, or they might have waning influence the further away from the central point. Depends on your preference and experience. Nevertheless a planet approaches one of these points with an orb of influence. Therefore in my book the effect should be felt a little distance away, so I work on a 5* orb to these points. Ron Gaunt On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 05:54:16 -0000, you wrote: > > >Dear Ron, >The orbs you suggest look acceptable for aspect calculation, but >wouldn't these be too " wide " for determining exaltation / >debilitation / Mootrikona? Personally I would prefer a tighter orb, >close to what Shanmugham has mentioned. > >Regards, >Rangarajan > > , " rongaunt@b... au " ><rongaunt@b...> wrote: >> >> Dear Sandy, et al, >> >> The clearest 'proof' of aspects has been shown by Nelson on his >> research on the influence of cosmic patterns on radio waves in >> communications. If you go to 'Recent Advances in Natal >> Astrology' page 340 you will see the bell curve of observed >> aspects. You will note that there is high intensity up to >> 1*. This is what the author of Astrosecrets may be implying >> when he says ' gets its exaltation level 50 minutes before >> approaching' and leaving the stipulated degree. Does this >> mean that exaltation should be restricted to this 50'. I >> suspect not, because the bell curve shows clearly that up to >> around 2* to 2.5* there is still considerable influence in >> aspects. After 5* this becomes minimal. It is interesting to >> note that the bell curve is uniform ie departing aspects are >> exactly the same as applying. >> >> I always found it confusing using Hindu whole sign aspects >> as they tend to bring in too many other planets into the >> equation. I also found many to be totally irrelevant to the >> point at issue. Accordingly I now use Western aspects >> of 5* for major aspects and 2.5* - 3* for minor. I find this >> works well with KP and Horary. >> >> >> Ron Gaunt >> >> >> >> On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 13:17:06 -0400, you wrote: >> >> >Dear Anant Raichur and Group, >> > >> >I, too, had not seen an orb reference in any of the KP books and >was feeling >> >like this overall planetary " exalted/debilitation " assessment was >getting a >> >bit out of hand, but I had nothing concrete in KP to base my gut >feelings >> >on. So I was absolutely delighted when I finally came across a KP >reference >> >addressing the acceptable orb that should be in place, for >exaltation and >> >debilitation to be truly effective. Having located a reference >addressing >> >this concern of mine, I then also made both a mental note and a >penciled >> >note (in the book) as to where this reference could be checked. >> > >> >So if you have the book " Astrosecrets and Krishnamurti Padhdhati " >Part 1, >> >you will fine the reference on page 36 of the Fourth Edition; >April 2003. >> > >> >If you do not have the book at hand, below is the direct quote, >for your >> >reference: (When he begins his sentence " From this " [first >sentence below], >> >he is referring to the preceding planetary star and pada >information for >> >debilitation to be in effect). >> > >> > " From this it will be clear that planets in a particular sign, >and in a >> >particular pada alone should be considered as exalted or >debilitated, and to >> >speak of exaltation or Debilitation other than the said pada will >not be >> >correct. Planets moving in a star, gets its exaltation level 50 >minutes >> >before approaching the stipulated degree level to exhibit a >brilliant light >> >and again attains the normal original brightness 50 minutes after >leaving >> >before the same stipulated degree levels. " >> > >> >The author then goes on to say: >> > >> > " In the same way debilitation needs to be understood. To repeat, >a planet >> >moving in a sign if it is its exaltation house, one should not be >blind to >> >say that planet is exalted. Similarly debilitation. That is a >planet is >> >exalted at a particular degree level only, and that planet is >moving in it >> >exaltation sign are two different things. Such observations >contrary to the >> >real, not only of exaltation - debilitation, but several other >matters in >> >astrology only make this Astro science a sick one. No doctor can >cure such >> >sickness. A deep search and to arrive at the truth alone can cure >this >> >malady. " >> > >> >Later on in this same chapter, the author addresses the fact that >the " devil >> >in the astrologer " often gives a blanket reading, and that the >astrologer >> >may have made some serious errors (for what could have and should >have >> >resulted in a happy marriage), by misrepresenting the real truths >behind the >> >concept of debilitation, and thereby spoiling the marital match >by declaring >> >it an unfit match through his reading. The result was that the >marriage >> >never took place when it should have, and in fact, the union >could have >> >resulted in a happy marriage, but never stood the chance due to >the >> >astrologer. (In my opinion - These are errors we must all (as >astrologers) >> >concern ourselves with when reading for a client - and only by >addressing >> >these subtleties publicly will we all be made more aware of the >same, and >> >then more attentive to details). >> > >> > >> > All the Best, >> > ><http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/40.gif> Sandy >> >Crowther >> > <http://www.jupitersweb.com/> http://www.jupitersweb.com >> > >> > >> > >> > > On >> >Behalf Of anant raichur >> >Sunday, April 24, 2005 12:13 PM >> > >> >Re: Exaltation/Debilitation Revisited >> > >> > >> >Dear Sandy Crowther >> > >> >I fully agree with your views on Exaltation and Debilitation. I >however do >> >not recollect where >> > >> >the ORBs are specified. The Signs and Degrees are okay. >> > >> >Any refernce to orbs would help >> > >> > >> >Sandy Crowther <sandycrowther@a...> wrote: >> > >> >Dear Group, >> > >> >There appears to be some prevailing confusion about exactly what >Exaltation >> >and Debilitation actually mean in evaluation of a KP chart. So >below is a >> >brief overview of the planetary interactions, followed by my >humble attempt >> >at explaining the effects of exaltation and debilitation, and >their usage in >> >KP, according to my understanding of the basic and primary >teachings of the >> >KP system. >> > >> >What we know already is that a planet moving under the influence >of his star >> >lord, will act according to the dictates of that star lord. With >that in >> >mind, we are also well aware that the planet will predominately >offer the >> >results of the house in which the star lord is posited, in >addition to the >> >house(s) owned by the star lord. Then, the planet itself, offers >the results >> >of the house it occupies and the house(s) it owns. So basically >each planet >> >has a role to play, and both the star lord and the planet combine >their >> >influence to determine whether the event will be favorable or >not. ( If >> >unfamiliar with this concept, more examples of how a planet will >act can be >> >found in my article >> ><http://www.jupitersweb.com/kp_How%20does%20the%20dasha%20lord% >20function.ht >> >m> KP: How Does the Dasha Lord Function?) >> > >> >So what exactly does Exalted or Debilitated infer? >> >Several indicators are simply " givens " in KP, and must not only be >> >considered, but must also be both integrated and synthesized into >your >> >analysis before a final determination is made. But according to >sizing up an >> >event, only the house results are offered - so where does that >leave the >> >sign effects that the planet is placed in - such as the planet's >exalted or >> >debilitated status? Here is where much confusion seems prevalent >in KP >> >assessments- especially when a planet is badly placed in the 8th >or 12th >> >house, but simultaneously exalted in status. Or when a planet is >in a >> >debilitated state, but posited in the benefic 11th house? How do >we assess >> >these results? >> > >> >Exaltation and debilitation are " strength " and " weakness " >indicators >> >respectively, and therefore their specific job is to give us an >idea of how >> >much " muscle " (strength or weakness) the planet carries - within >its >> >environment - to carry out its function determined by its house >placement. >> >So if a planet is strong due to exaltation, but badly placed in >the 12th, >> >the planet does not change its role and become good for the 12th >house, but >> >rather the effects are that the planet will not hasten to quickly >carry out >> >the functions for his position in any given house, and will >therefore >> >quickly bring about loss (or other 12th house function) in a very >timely >> >manner. Why? Because he has the strength to act quickly and with >no delay, >> >and he is very comfortable where he is positioned in his exalted >status. He >> >works fast because he is in a happy and exalted state - caring >not that he >> >is working quickly to bring about less than fortunate events. >He's just >> >doing his job with the muscle provided to do it with. When the >planet has >> >established a set of results that need to be carried out due to >his star >> >level placement, exaltation does not absolve him of the adverse >results that >> >need to be carried out, and subsequently make the results >pleasant. This is >> >simply not the way exaltation and debilitation work, nor is it >part of their >> >role as " strength indicators " for a planet. The planets do not >give contrary >> >results due to their strength status. >> >So, also, do we judge the effects of a planet posited in a good >house but in >> >the state of debilitation. This debilitated planet will still >carry out the >> >positive acts for the house in which he is posited, but his >strength factor >> >will not allow him to do so quickly or in a timely manner. So the >result is >> >that he will eventually bring the good effects about, but not in >a timely >> >manner or with speed under his wings. He only carries enough >strength to >> >respond to his mission in a slow and delayed manner because he is >not happy >> >being posited where he is and at the degree at which he is >debilitated, but >> >he has a job to do and will carry it out and do his job, but NOT >in a manner >> >contrary to what his position indicates - it will just be carried >out at a >> >snails pace. >> > >> >More Apparent " Strength " Confusion: >> >Now the KP confusion I'm seeing frequently, and the catch to the >> >exaltation/debilitation game is this...Exactly WHEN is a planet >considered >> >to be exalted or debilitated? Is is just by being posited in the >respective >> >signs of exaltation or debilitation - such as Jupiter is >considered >> >debilitated simply because he is posited in Capricorn? Or Venus is >> >considered exalted just because she is posited in Pisces? The >answer to this >> >question is no! There are refinements to strengths and weaknesses >that need >> >to be addressed before blanket statements are made due to >assessing these >> >planetary strengths and weaknesses. For example, is Jupiter, when >posited at >> >15 Cancer, considered to be in an exalted state? No! Why? Jupiter >is exalted >> >at 05 Cancer - not at 15 degrees Cancer. Orbs must be set in >place and >> >respected for the effects of exalted or debilitated status to be >truly >> >effective - sign positions alone are irrelevant when assessing >planetary >> >strengths. So to say that a planet is exalted or debilitated >simply because >> >it is posited in its sign of exaltation or debilitation is >incorrect - the >> >degrees of the sign placement are necessary to determine whether >that planet >> >is truly in an exalted or debilitated state. According to my >understanding, >> >the KP preferred orb allowance is 50' on either side of its >exaltation or >> >debilitation degree - (less than a degree). Below is a Table >showing the >> >exalted and debilitated placements. I sincerely hope this further >clarifies >> >the position of exaltation versus debilitation. (If the Table >doesn't >> >transmit, I have also uploaded this to my site at >> >http://www.jupitersweb.com/kp_exaltation.debilitation% >20revisited.htm >> >(With reference to Navamsha positions, my take on this is that >in KP, this >> >varga has been used to further refine the strength of a planet). >> > >> > >> >Planet >> >Exalted >> >Debilitated >> > >> >Sun >> >10 Degrees Aries >> >10 Degrees Libra >> > >> >Moon >> >03 Degrees Taurus >> >03 Degrees Scorpio >> > >> >Mars >> >28 Degrees Capricorn >> >28 Degrees Cancer >> > >> >Mercury >> >15 Degrees Virgo >> >15 Degrees Pisces >> > >> >Jupiter >> >05 Degrees Cancer >> >05 Degrees Capricorn >> > >> >Venus >> >27 Degrees Pisces >> >27 Degrees Virgo >> > >> >Saturn >> >20 Libra >> >20 Degrees Aries >> > >> >Rahu >> >20 Degrees Taurus >> >20 Degrees Scorpio >> > >> >Ketu >> >20 Degrees Scorpio >> >20 Degrees Taurus >> > >> > <sandy@t...> >> > >> > >> > All the Best, >> > ><http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/40.gif> Sandy >> >Crowther >> > <http://www.jupitersweb.com/> http://www.jupitersweb.com >> > <http://www.jupitersweb.com/> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >--------- >> >A.R.Raichur bombay >> >anant_1608 >> >raichuranant >> >USE ONE OF THESE ADDRESS ES ONLY >> >tel: 022-2506 2609 >> >--------- >> > >> > >> > >> > _____ >> > >> > >> > Small Business - Try >> >><http://us.rd./evt=31637/*http://smallbusiness./re >sources/ >> >> our new resources site! >> > >> > _____ >> > >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2005 Report Share Posted April 26, 2005 Sandy ji, I am unable to understand the reason behind your upset. In a forum of 600 members, few will be takers of your thought and few will no be. Everyone works his/ her own way. But as a group policy, no one is ever restricted to present new thoughts and ideas. I myself, though the strong believer of KP, use ideas from various different branches of astrology as that works for me. But you should never think that your ideas/ research will be accepted so early. It took years to Sri KSK to get his research accepted. You will have to wait and work patiently, only that way you views can be useful for others. You will have to supplement your research/ views with sufficient examples. Regards, Punit Pandey On 4/25/05, Sandy Crowther <sandycrowther wrote: Dear Balaji, Rangarajan, Kanak, and Group, So as to offend no one anymore on this list, this will be my final post here. I simply have no time for this controversy and I am tired of inadvertently upsetting someone over here by a post meant to be of astrological help. I have frequently hesitated to post on this KP list simply because the lid seems to be already tightly closed on the KP System over here, opinions here are strong and forceful, and further investigation is strongly discouraged. I find no acceptance here at all for further research by any seasoned individuals who are researched inclined and have spent years studying astrology - and being forced to stay within the parameters of how someone else perceives the teachings of Prof. K.S.K is simply not acceptable to me. So I will shut my mouth. No hard feelings - I simply have no time for this nonsense. I've done my homework and therefore I blindly follow no one at this stage of my life. We all have different experiences and different opinions, and I value the individuality present in each of us, but personally will not continue to feel the need to watch my back at every post - it's a waste of my time. Having read Prof K.S.K.'s Readers myself, I am of the opinion that Prof. K.S.K strongly encouraged research by serious astrologers or students of astrology and that his system was not meant to be a " closed system " at all, but that is my opinion and perception of his writings, and not my call to make here on this list. Others here have perceived his writings and word as the final word on KP with no additional research or investigation needed, and that is their decision to make and their path to follow also - and I can respect that. But to keep peace and save myself time I don't have in writing posts like this one, I will keep my opinions to myself from this point on. My final comments... I've been studying and practicing astrology for the good part of 35 years, and in my not so humble opinion, assessing planetary strength need not be thrown out simple because it is misunderstood, incorrectly applied, or because we use the star lord and sub lord theory in KP. One is compatible with the other. Yes - I have seen cases where where supposed debilitation didn't work and neither did exaltation for some astrologers - and in those cases, upon closer inspection I found that these planetary strengths were not applied correctly - hence the reason for my post on exaltation/debilitation. So am I going to throw these concepts out? Not a chance. My goal is to attain predictive accuracy - my goal is NOT to walk in restricted astrological areas - I've already been there and done that, and that leaves no room for either personal or professional growth if one is research inclined. To Ranjarajan - I apologize for the confusion. " At a snails pace " is a western term and means moving slowly or sluggishly. It is a terminology used simply to reiterate the fact that a debilitated planet is not happy in his surroundings, and is in no immediate hurry to do what is expected of him. All the Best, Sandy Crowther http://www.jupitersweb.com On Behalf Of Balaji G.krishnan Monday, April 25, 2005 3:42 AM Re: Re: Exaltation/Debilitation Revisited Dear sandy and all, I am sorry to intervene the discussion going on for a longtime on debilitation and exaltation of planets. One of the major welcoming findings of Great guruji K.S.K is " no planet is debilitated or exalted in K.P " .Planets gives the results only by source of its star lord...thats why it is called stellar theory. More over,you can very well see personally on your own many charts having exalted planets gives adverse results and planets debilitated gives good results.Why??...Thats the secret of starlord and sub lord theory. So,may be as a practitioner of traditional astrology or vedic astrology,we can use those concepts for our satisfaction but the truth is that we are not hitting the right spot. I request all the K.P astrologers again to understand the foundation rules and findings of great guruji K.S.K and not to divert else with other insignificant rules. K.P is time-tested,well refined and most scientific method in this modern world. Its a message for all true K.P followers and not to hurt anybody. With regards Balaji GRangarajan Krishnamoorthy <ranga wrote: Dear Sandy,Thanks for a nice posting. However, I don't think I understand what you mean by a debilitated planet offering results " at snails pace " or an exalted planet offering results " quickly " . Does this affect timing then? We normally use conjoined period of the effective significators along with transits to establish timing. I can't see how planetary dignity (its strength as you nicely put it) can affect this.Regards,Rangarajan , " Sandy Crowther " <sandycrowther@a...> wrote:> Dear Group,> > There appears to be some prevailing confusion about exactly what Exaltation> and Debilitation actually mean in evaluation of a KP chart. So below is a> brief overview of the planetary interactions, followed by my humble attempt> at explaining the effects of exaltation and debilitation, and their usage in> KP, according to my understanding of the basic and primary teachings of the> KP system.> > What we know already is that a planet moving under the influence of his star> lord, will act according to the dictates of that star lord. With that in > mind, we are also well aware that the planet will predominately offer the> results of the house in which the star lord is posited, in addition to the> house(s) owned by the star lord. Then, the planet itself, offers the results> of the house it occupies and the house(s) it owns. So basically each planet> has a role to play, and both the star lord and the planet combine their> influence to determine whether the event will be favorable or not. ( If> unfamiliar with this concept, more examples of how a planet will act can be> found in my article> < http://www.jupitersweb.com/kp_How%20does%20the%20dasha%20lord%20function.ht> m> KP: How Does the Dasha Lord Function?)> > So what exactly does Exalted or Debilitated infer?> Several indicators are simply " givens " in KP, and must not only be > considered, but must also be both integrated and synthesized into your> analysis before a final determination is made. But according to sizing up an> event, only the house results are offered - so where does that leave the> sign effects that the planet is placed in - such as the planet's exalted or> debilitated status? Here is where much confusion seems prevalent in KP> assessments- especially when a planet is badly placed in the 8th or 12th> house, but simultaneously exalted in status. Or when a planet is in a> debilitated state, but posited in the benefic 11th house? How do we assess> these results?> > Exaltation and debilitation are " strength " and " weakness " indicators> respectively, and therefore their specific job is to give us an idea of how> much " muscle " (strength or weakness) the planet carries - within its> environment - to carry out its function determined by its house placement.> So if a planet is strong due to exaltation, but badly placed in the 12th,> the planet does not change its role and become good for the 12th house, but> rather the effects are that the planet will not hasten to quickly carry out> the functions for his position in any given house, and will therefore> quickly bring about loss (or other 12th house function) in a very timely> manner. Why? Because he has the strength to act quickly and with no delay,> and he is very comfortable where he is positioned in his exalted status. He> works fast because he is in a happy and exalted state - caring not that he> is working quickly to bring about less than fortunate events. He's just> doing his job with the muscle provided to do it with. When the planet has> established a set of results that need to be carried out due to his star> level placement, exaltation does not absolve him of the adverse results that> need to be carried out, and subsequently make the results pleasant. This is> simply not the way exaltation and debilitation work, nor is it part of their> role as " strength indicators " for a planet. The planets do not give contrary> results due to their strength status.> So, also, do we judge the effects of a planet posited in a good house but in> the state of debilitation. This debilitated planet will still carry out the> positive acts for the house in which he is posited, but his strength factor> will not allow him to do so quickly or in a timely manner. So the result is> that he will eventually bring the good effects about, but not in a timely> manner or with speed under his wings. He only carries enough strength to> respond to his mission in a slow and delayed manner because he is not happy> being posited where he is and at the degree at which he is debilitated, but> he has a job to do and will carry it out and do his job, but NOT in a manner> contrary to what his position indicates - it will just be carried out at a> snails pace. > > More Apparent " Strength " Confusion:> Now the KP confusion I'm seeing frequently, and the catch to the> exaltation/debilitation game is this...Exactly WHEN is a planet considered > to be exalted or debilitated? Is is just by being posited in the respective> signs of exaltation or debilitation - such as Jupiter is considered> debilitated simply because he is posited in Capricorn? Or Venus is > considered exalted just because she is posited in Pisces? The answer to this> question is no! There are refinements to strengths and weaknesses that need> to be addressed before blanket statements are made due to assessing these> planetary strengths and weaknesses. For example, is Jupiter, when posited at> 15 Cancer, considered to be in an exalted state? No! Why? Jupiter is exalted> at 05 Cancer - not at 15 degrees Cancer. Orbs must be set in place and> respected for the effects of exalted or debilitated status to be truly> effective - sign positions alone are irrelevant when assessing planetary> strengths. So to say that a planet is exalted or debilitated simply because> it is posited in its sign of exaltation or debilitation is incorrect - the> degrees of the sign placement are necessary to determine whether that planet> is truly in an exalted or debilitated state. According to my understanding,> the KP preferred orb allowance is 50' on either side of its exaltation or> debilitation degree - (less than a degree). Below is a Table showing the> exalted and debilitated placements. I sincerely hope this further clarifies> the position of exaltation versus debilitation. (If the Table doesn't> transmit, I have also uploaded this to my site at> http://www.jupitersweb.com/kp_exaltation.debilitation%20revisited.htm> (With reference to Navamsha positions, my take on this is that in KP, this> varga has been used to further refine the strength of a planet). > > > Planet> Exalted> Debilitated> > Sun> 10 Degrees Aries> 10 Degrees Libra> > Moon> 03 Degrees Taurus> 03 Degrees Scorpio> > Mars> 28 Degrees Capricorn> 28 Degrees Cancer> > Mercury> 15 Degrees Virgo> 15 Degrees Pisces> > Jupiter> 05 Degrees Cancer> 05 Degrees Capricorn > > Venus> 27 Degrees Pisces> 27 Degrees Virgo> > Saturn> 20 Libra> 20 Degrees Aries> > Rahu> 20 Degrees Taurus> 20 Degrees Scorpio> > Ketu> 20 Degrees Scorpio> 20 Degrees Taurus> > <sandy@t...> > > > All the Best,> <http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/40.gif > Sandy> Crowther> <http://www.jupitersweb.com/> http://www.jupitersweb.com > <http://www.jupitersweb.com/> India Matrimony : Find your life partner online. 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Guest guest Posted April 26, 2005 Report Share Posted April 26, 2005 Dear Sreenivas, 1. Allow me to mention that is Mrs. Sandy Crowther (female). 2. Without intention of giving any comment on application of Navamsa, just for information, let me mention Dr. Jagdish Maheshri who claims that his Ninefold Natal and Progression charts give better results in his book, " It's All in Timing " , 1997, in which KP ayanamsa and basic approach are applied without mentioning KP but recommending to study references, including KP Readers I to VI and crows that G. W. Bush is born to become a great politician with 6 planets in 10 th of his Ninefold natal chart, of which planets and cusps positions are the result of deviding the orginal positions with their rasi numbers by 9 and which comes out more or less the same as Navamsa. " In his ninefold birth chart with Scorpio ascendant, there are 6 planets in the tenth house, the house of profession, action, and achievements. These are: Rahu, Mars, Uranus (within in 3 degrees of each other), and Moon, Saturn, and Jupiter (Moon and Saturn are with in 3 degrees of each other). This confirms that politics is the destiny of this man. Note the planets Uranus, Rahu, Moon, and Jupiter, all coming together in the tenth house of his ninefold birth chart, virtually assure him that he would be a very successful politician. And he certainly became the ultimate politician and the world leader, the president of the United states. " http://www.astroinsight.com/predictions/2004/nov/1.html 3. April 2005 Prediction " President Bush and his administration: While positive trine of Neptune with his natal Moon will certainly help President Bush to accomplish some of his political agenda, the Uranus opposition to his natal Mars, especially during the second half of the month, will manifest in sudden changes in his both domestic and foreign policies, perhaps new international crisis that he must deal, or some sort of domestic political turmoil that he must resolve. Also, he maybe forced to make some changes in his cabinet. Jupiter's square with his natal Sun during the first week of the month means he may have to face issues that deal with morality, same sex marriages, etc,. and also during the same week, he will be challenged with domestic crisis and will have hard time dealing with his adversaries that include both democrats and conservative republicans. For the entire month Saturn is going to be in his ninefold eighth house, and it is likely to cause unforeseen danger to his health. And therefore, it would be prudent of him to take extra precautions of his health and safety. " http://www.astroinsight.com/predictions/2005/apr/1.html Best regards, tw , Sreenivas Desabhatla <sreenivasdesabhatla> wrote: > Dear Mr. Sandy Crowther, > I appreciate you feelings. and I sicerely support you. I had the opportunity to meet Prof. Krishnamurty Personally in his residence in 1971. During discussion on astrology and stellar thoery, he suggested to me to do further reasearch on Navamsa.. I was taking the sub- subsub of planets in Navamsa and tested some of the horoscopes and found to be working. After his sad demise we could not discuss further. > So there is no point in sticking to the theory started by KP which he could not complete during his life time. So You are doing the right thing in continuing his theory of reasearch. After retirement I took the astrology in the right earnest. > with Regards > Sreenivas Desabhatla > > Sandy Crowther <sandycrowther@a...> wrote: > Dear Balaji, Rangarajan, Kanak, and Group, > > So as to offend no one anymore on this list, this will be my final post here. I simply have no time for this controversy and I am tired of inadvertently upsetting someone over here by a post meant to be of astrological help. I have frequently hesitated to post on this KP list simply because the lid seems to be already tightly closed on the KP System over here, opinions here are strong and forceful, and further investigation is strongly discouraged. I find no acceptance here at all for further research by any seasoned individuals who are researched inclined and have spent years studying astrology - and being forced to stay within the parameters of how someone else perceives the teachings of Prof. K.S.K is simply not acceptable to me. So I will shut my mouth. No hard feelings - I simply have no time for this nonsense. I've done my homework and therefore I blindly follow no one at this stage of my life. We all have different experiences and different opinions, and I value the > individuality present in each of us, but personally will not continue to feel the need to watch my back at every post - it's a waste of my time. Having read Prof K.S.K.'s Readers myself, I am of the opinion that Prof. K.S.K strongly encouraged research by serious astrologers or students of astrology and that his system was not meant to be a " closed system " at all, but that is my opinion and perception of his writings, and not my call to make here on this list. Others here have perceived his writings and word as the final word on KP with no additional research or investigation needed, and that is their decision to make and their path to follow also - and I can respect that. But to keep peace and save myself time I don't have in writing posts like this one, I will keep my opinions to myself from this point on. My final comments... > > I've been studying and practicing astrology for the good part of 35 years, and in my not so humble opinion, assessing planetary strength need not be thrown out simple because it is misunderstood, incorrectly applied, or because we use the star lord and sub lord theory in KP. One is compatible with the other. Yes - I have seen cases where where supposed debilitation didn't work and neither did exaltation for some astrologers - and in those cases, upon closer inspection I found that these planetary strengths were not applied correctly - hence the reason for my post on exaltation/debilitation. So am I going to throw these concepts out? Not a chance. My goal is to attain predictive accuracy - my goal is NOT to walk in restricted astrological areas - I've already been there and done that, and that leaves no room for either personal or professional growth if one is research inclined. > > To Ranjarajan - I apologize for the confusion. " At a snails pace " is a western term and means moving slowly or sluggishly. It is a terminology used simply to reiterate the fact that a debilitated planet is not happy in his surroundings, and is in no immediate hurry to do what is expected of him. > > > All the Best, > Sandy Crowther > http://www.jupitersweb.com > > > > > > > > > On Behalf Of Balaji G.krishnan > Monday, April 25, 2005 3:42 AM > > Re: Re: Exaltation/Debilitation Revisited > > > Dear sandy and all, > > I am sorry to intervene the discussion going on for a longtime on debilitation and exaltation of planets. > > One of the major welcoming findings of Great guruji K.S.K is " no planet is debilitated or exalted in K.P " .Planets gives the results only by source of its star lord...thats why it is called stellar theory. > > More over,you can very well see personally on your own many charts having exalted planets gives adverse results and planets debilitated gives good results.Why??...Thats the secret of starlord and sub lord theory. > > So,may be as a practitioner of traditional astrology or vedic astrology,we can use those concepts for our satisfaction but the truth is that we are not hitting the right spot. > > I request all the K.P astrologers again to understand the foundation rules and findings of great guruji K.S.K and not to divert else with other insignificant rules. > > K.P is time-tested,well refined and most scientific method in this modern world. > > Its a message for all true K.P followers and not to hurt anybody. > > With regards > Balaji G > Rangarajan Krishnamoorthy <ranga@m...> wrote: > > Dear Sandy, > Thanks for a nice posting. However, I don't think I understand what > you mean by a debilitated planet offering results " at snails pace " > or an exalted planet offering results " quickly " . Does this affect > timing then? We normally use conjoined period of the effective > significators along with transits to establish timing. I can't see > how planetary dignity (its strength as you nicely put it) can affect > this. > > Regards, > Rangarajan > > , " Sandy Crowther " > <sandycrowther@a...> wrote: > > Dear Group, > > > > There appears to be some prevailing confusion about exactly what > Exaltation > > and Debilitation actually mean in evaluation of a KP chart. So > below is a > > brief overview of the planetary interactions, followed by my > humble attempt > > at explaining the effects of exaltation and debilitation, and > their usage in > > KP, according to my understanding of the basic and primary > teachings of the > > KP system. > > > > What we know already is that a planet moving under the influence > of his star > > lord, will act according to the dictates of that star lord. With > that in > > mind, we are also well aware that the planet will predominately > offer the > > results of the house in which the star lord is posited, in > addition to the > > house(s) owned by the star lord. Then, the planet itself, offers > the results > > of the house it occupies and the house(s) it owns. So basically > each planet > > has a role to play, and both the star lord and the planet combine > their > > influence to determine whether the event will be favorable or not. > ( If > > unfamiliar with this concept, more examples of how a planet will > act can be > > found in my article > > <http://www.jupitersweb.com/kp_How%20does%20the%20dasha%20lord% > 20function.ht > > m> KP: How Does the Dasha Lord Function?) > > > > So what exactly does Exalted or Debilitated infer? > > Several indicators are simply " givens " in KP, and must not only be > > considered, but must also be both integrated and synthesized into > your > > analysis before a final determination is made. But according to > sizing up an > > event, only the house results are offered - so where does that > leave the > > sign effects that the planet is placed in - such as the planet's > exalted or > > debilitated status? Here is where much confusion seems prevalent > in KP > > assessments- especially when a planet is badly placed in the 8th > or 12th > > house, but simultaneously exalted in status. Or when a planet is > in a > > debilitated state, but posited in the benefic 11th house? How do > we assess > > these results? > > > > Exaltation and debilitation are " strength " and " weakness " > indicators > > respectively, and therefore their specific job is to give us an > idea of how > > much " muscle " (strength or weakness) the planet carries - within > its > > environment - to carry out its function determined by its house > placement. > > So if a planet is strong due to exaltation, but badly placed in > the 12th, > > the planet does not change its role and become good for the 12th > house, but > > rather the effects are that the planet will not hasten to quickly > carry out > > the functions for his position in any given house, and will > therefore > > quickly bring about loss (or other 12th house function) in a very > timely > > manner. Why? Because he has the strength to act quickly and with > no delay, > > and he is very comfortable where he is positioned in his exalted > status. He > > works fast because he is in a happy and exalted state - caring not > that he > > is working quickly to bring about less than fortunate events. He's > just > > doing his job with the muscle provided to do it with. When the > planet has > > established a set of results that need to be carried out due to > his star > > level placement, exaltation does not absolve him of the adverse > results that > > need to be carried out, and subsequently make the results > pleasant. This is > > simply not the way exaltation and debilitation work, nor is it > part of their > > role as " strength indicators " for a planet. The planets do not > give contrary > > results due to their strength status. > > So, also, do we judge the effects of a planet posited in a good > house but in > > the state of debilitation. This debilitated planet will still > carry out the > > positive acts for the house in which he is posited, but his > strength factor > > will not allow him to do so quickly or in a timely manner. So the > result is > > that he will eventually bring the good effects about, but not in a > timely > > manner or with speed under his wings. He only carries enough > strength to > > respond to his mission in a slow and delayed manner because he is > not happy > > being posited where he is and at the degree at which he is > debilitated, but > > he has a job to do and will carry it out and do his job, but NOT > in a manner > > contrary to what his position indicates - it will just be carried > out at a > > snails pace. > > > > More Apparent " Strength " Confusion: > > Now the KP confusion I'm seeing frequently, and the catch to the > > exaltation/debilitation game is this...Exactly WHEN is a planet > considered > > to be exalted or debilitated? Is is just by being posited in the > respective > > signs of exaltation or debilitation - such as Jupiter is considered > > debilitated simply because he is posited in Capricorn? Or Venus is > > considered exalted just because she is posited in Pisces? The > answer to this > > question is no! There are refinements to strengths and weaknesses > that need > > to be addressed before blanket statements are made due to > assessing these > > planetary strengths and weaknesses. For example, is Jupiter, when > posited at > > 15 Cancer, considered to be in an exalted state? No! Why? Jupiter > is exalted > > at 05 Cancer - not at 15 degrees Cancer. Orbs must be set in place > and > > respected for the effects of exalted or debilitated status to be > truly > > effective - sign positions alone are irrelevant when assessing > planetary > > strengths. So to say that a planet is exalted or debilitated > simply because > > it is posited in its sign of exaltation or debilitation is > incorrect - the > > degrees of the sign placement are necessary to determine whether > that planet > > is truly in an exalted or debilitated state. According to my > understanding, > > the KP preferred orb allowance is 50' on either side of its > exaltation or > > debilitation degree - (less than a degree). Below is a Table > showing the > > exalted and debilitated placements. I sincerely hope this further > clarifies > > the position of exaltation versus debilitation. (If the Table > doesn't > > transmit, I have also uploaded this to my site at > > http://www.jupitersweb.com/kp_exaltation.debilitation% > 20revisited.htm > > (With reference to Navamsha positions, my take on this is that in > KP, this > > varga has been used to further refine the strength of a planet). > > > > > > Planet > > Exalted > > Debilitated > > > > Sun > > 10 Degrees Aries > > 10 Degrees Libra > > > > Moon > > 03 Degrees Taurus > > 03 Degrees Scorpio > > > > Mars > > 28 Degrees Capricorn > > 28 Degrees Cancer > > > > Mercury > > 15 Degrees Virgo > > 15 Degrees Pisces > > > > Jupiter > > 05 Degrees Cancer > > 05 Degrees Capricorn > > > > Venus > > 27 Degrees Pisces > > 27 Degrees Virgo > > > > Saturn > > 20 Libra > > 20 Degrees Aries > > > > Rahu > > 20 Degrees Taurus > > 20 Degrees Scorpio > > > > Ketu > > 20 Degrees Scorpio > > 20 Degrees Taurus > > > > <sandy@t...> > > > > > > All the Best, > > > <http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/40.gif> Sandy > > Crowther > > <http://www.jupitersweb.com/> http://www.jupitersweb.com > > <http://www.jupitersweb.com/> > > > > > India Matrimony: Find your life partner online. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2005 Report Share Posted April 26, 2005 Dear Sandy, I fully agree with Punitji's views.You are an asset to our group.Please do not move away. Sunil D.Joshi. --- Punit Pandey <punitp wrote: > Sandy ji, > > I am unable to understand the reason behind your > upset. In a forum of 600 > members, few will be takers of your thought and few > will no be. Everyone > works his/ her own way. But as a group policy, no > one is ever restricted to > present new thoughts and ideas. I myself, though the > strong believer of KP, > use ideas from various different branches of > astrology as that works for me. > But you should never think that your ideas/ research > will be accepted so > early. It took years to Sri KSK to get his research > accepted. You will have > to wait and work patiently, only that way you views > can be useful for > others. You will have to supplement your research/ > views with sufficient > examples. > > Regards, > > Punit Pandey > > > On 4/25/05, Sandy Crowther > <sandycrowther wrote: > > > > Dear Balaji, Rangarajan, Kanak, and Group, > > So as to offend no one anymore on this list, this > will be my final post > > here. I simply have no time for this controversy > and I am tired of > > inadvertently upsetting someone over here by a > post meant to be of > > astrological help. I have frequently hesitated to > post on this KP list > > simply because the lid seems to be already tightly > closed on the KP System > > over here, opinions here are strong and forceful, > and further investigation > > is strongly discouraged. I find no acceptance here > at all for further > > research by any seasoned individuals who are > researched inclined and have > > spent years studying astrology - and being forced > to stay within the > > parameters of how someone else perceives the > teachings of Prof. K.S.K is > > simply not acceptable to me. So I will shut my > mouth. No hard feelings - I > > simply have no time for this nonsense. I've done > my homework and therefore I > > blindly follow no one at this stage of my life. We > all have different > > experiences and different opinions, and I value > the individuality present in > > each of us, but personally will not continue to > feel the need to watch my > > back at every post - it's a waste of my time. > Having read Prof K.S.K.'sReaders myself, I am of the > opinion that Prof. > > K.S.K strongly encouraged research by serious > astrologers or students of > > astrology and that his system was not meant to be > a " closed system " at all, > > but that is my opinion and perception of his > writings, and not my call to > > make here on this list. Others here have perceived > his writings and word as > > the final word on KP with no additional research > or investigation needed, > > and that is their decision to make and their path > to follow also - and I can > > respect that. But to keep peace and save myself > time I don't have in writing > > posts like this one, I will keep my opinions to > myself from this point on. > > My final comments... > > I've been studying and practicing astrology for > the good part of 35 > > years, and in my not so humble opinion, assessing > planetary strength need > > not be thrown out simple because it is > misunderstood, incorrectly applied, > > or because we use the star lord and sub lord > theory in KP. One is compatible > > with the other. Yes - I have seen cases where > where supposed debilitation > > didn't work and neither did exaltation for some > astrologers - and in those > > cases, upon closer inspection I found that these > planetary strengths were > > not applied correctly - hence the reason for my > post on > > exaltation/debilitation. So am I going to throw > these concepts out? Not a > > chance. My goal is to attain predictive accuracy - > my goal is NOT to walk in > > restricted astrological areas - I've already been > there and done that, and > > that leaves no room for either personal or > professional growth if one is > > research inclined. > > To Ranjarajan - I apologize for the confusion. > " At a snails pace " is a > > western term and means moving slowly or > sluggishly. It is a terminology used > > simply to reiterate the fact that a debilitated > planet is not happy in his > > surroundings, and is in no immediate hurry to do > what is expected of him. > > All the Best, > > Sandy Crowther > > http://www.jupitersweb.com > > > > > > ** > *On > > Behalf Of *Balaji G.krishnan > > *Sent:* Monday, April 25, 2005 3:42 AM > > *To:* > > *Subject:* Re: Re: > Exaltation/Debilitation Revisited > > > > Dear sandy and all, > > I am sorry to intervene the discussion going on > for a longtime on > > debilitation and exaltation of planets. > > One of the major welcoming findings of Great > guruji K.S.K is " no planet > > is debilitated or exalted in K.P " .Planets gives > the results only by source > > of its star lord...thats why it is called stellar > theory. > > > > More over,you can very well see personally on your > own many charts having > > exalted planets gives adverse results and planets > debilitated gives good > > results.Why??...Thats the secret of starlord and > sub lord theory. > > So,may be as a practitioner of traditional > astrology or vedic > > astrology,we can use those concepts for our > satisfaction but the truth is > > that we are not hitting the right spot. > > I request all the K.P astrologers again to > understand the foundation > > rules and findings of great guruji K.S.K and not > to divert else with other > > insignificant rules. > > K.P is time-tested,well refined and most > scientific method in this modern > > world. > > Its a message for all true K.P followers and not > to hurt anybody. > > With regards > > Balaji G > > *Rangarajan Krishnamoorthy <ranga* > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sandy, > > Thanks for a nice posting. However, I don't think > I understand what > > you mean by a debilitated planet offering results > " at snails pace " > > or an exalted planet offering results " quickly " . > Does this affect > > timing then? We normally use conjoined period of > the effective > > significators along with transits to establish > timing. I can't see > > how planetary dignity (its strength as you nicely > put it) can affect > > this. > > > > Regards, > > Rangarajan > > > > , " Sandy > Crowther " > > <sandycrowther@a...> wrote: > > > Dear Group, > > > > > > There appears to be some prevailing confusion > about exactly what > > Exaltation > > > and Debilitation actually mean in evaluation of > a KP chart. So > > below is a > > > brief overview of the planetary interactions, > followed by my > > humble attempt > > > at explaining the effects of exaltation and > debilitation, and > > their usage in > > > KP, according to my understanding of the basic > and === message truncated === Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2005 Report Share Posted April 26, 2005 Dear Sreenivas, 1. Allow me to mention that is Mrs. Sandy Crowther (female). 2. Without intention of giving any comment on application of Navamsa, just for information, let me mention Dr. Jagdish Maheshri who claims that his Ninefold Natal and Progression charts give better results in his book, " It's All in Timing " , 1997, in which KP ayanamsa and basic approach are applied without mentioning KP but recommending to study references, including KP Readers I to VI and crows that G. W. Bush is born to become a great politician with 6 planets in 10 th of his Ninefold natal chart, of which planets and cusps positions are the result of deviding the orginal positions with their rasi numbers by 9 and which comes out more or less the same as Navamsa. " In his ninefold birth chart with Scorpio ascendant, there are 6 planets in the tenth house, the house of profession, action, and achievements. These are: Rahu, Mars, Uranus (within in 3 degrees of each other), and Moon, Saturn, and Jupiter (Moon and Saturn are with in 3 degrees of each other). This confirms that politics is the destiny of this man. Note the planets Uranus, Rahu, Moon, and Jupiter, all coming together in the tenth house of his ninefold birth chart, virtually assure him that he would be a very successful politician. And he certainly became the ultimate politician and the world leader, the president of the United states. " http://www.astroinsight.com/predictions/2004/nov/1.html 3. April 2005 Prediction " President Bush and his administration: While positive trine of Neptune with his natal Moon will certainly help President Bush to accomplish some of his political agenda, the Uranus opposition to his natal Mars, especially during the second half of the month, will manifest in sudden changes in his both domestic and foreign policies, perhaps new international crisis that he must deal, or some sort of domestic political turmoil that he must resolve. Also, he maybe forced to make some changes in his cabinet. Jupiter's square with his natal Sun during the first week of the month means he may have to face issues that deal with morality, same sex marriages, etc,. and also during the same week, he will be challenged with domestic crisis and will have hard time dealing with his adversaries that include both democrats and conservative republicans. For the entire month Saturn is going to be in his ninefold eighth house, and it is likely to cause unforeseen danger to his health. And therefore, it would be prudent of him to take extra precautions of his health and safety. " http://www.astroinsight.com/predictions/2005/apr/1.html Best regards, tw , Sreenivas Desabhatla <sreenivasdesabhatla> wrote: > Dear Mr. Sandy Crowther, > I appreciate you feelings. and I sicerely support you. I had the opportunity to meet Prof. Krishnamurty Personally in his residence in 1971. During discussion on astrology and stellar thoery, he suggested to me to do further reasearch on Navamsa.. I was taking the sub- subsub of planets in Navamsa and tested some of the horoscopes and found to be working. After his sad demise we could not discuss further. > So there is no point in sticking to the theory started by KP which he could not complete during his life time. So You are doing the right thing in continuing his theory of reasearch. After retirement I took the astrology in the right earnest. > with Regards > Sreenivas Desabhatla > > Sandy Crowther <sandycrowther@a...> wrote: > Dear Balaji, Rangarajan, Kanak, and Group, > > So as to offend no one anymore on this list, this will be my final post here. I simply have no time for this controversy and I am tired of inadvertently upsetting someone over here by a post meant to be of astrological help. I have frequently hesitated to post on this KP list simply because the lid seems to be already tightly closed on the KP System over here, opinions here are strong and forceful, and further investigation is strongly discouraged. I find no acceptance here at all for further research by any seasoned individuals who are researched inclined and have spent years studying astrology - and being forced to stay within the parameters of how someone else perceives the teachings of Prof. K.S.K is simply not acceptable to me. So I will shut my mouth. No hard feelings - I simply have no time for this nonsense. I've done my homework and therefore I blindly follow no one at this stage of my life. We all have different experiences and different opinions, and I value the > individuality present in each of us, but personally will not continue to feel the need to watch my back at every post - it's a waste of my time. Having read Prof K.S.K.'s Readers myself, I am of the opinion that Prof. K.S.K strongly encouraged research by serious astrologers or students of astrology and that his system was not meant to be a " closed system " at all, but that is my opinion and perception of his writings, and not my call to make here on this list. Others here have perceived his writings and word as the final word on KP with no additional research or investigation needed, and that is their decision to make and their path to follow also - and I can respect that. But to keep peace and save myself time I don't have in writing posts like this one, I will keep my opinions to myself from this point on. My final comments... > > I've been studying and practicing astrology for the good part of 35 years, and in my not so humble opinion, assessing planetary strength need not be thrown out simple because it is misunderstood, incorrectly applied, or because we use the star lord and sub lord theory in KP. One is compatible with the other. Yes - I have seen cases where where supposed debilitation didn't work and neither did exaltation for some astrologers - and in those cases, upon closer inspection I found that these planetary strengths were not applied correctly - hence the reason for my post on exaltation/debilitation. So am I going to throw these concepts out? Not a chance. My goal is to attain predictive accuracy - my goal is NOT to walk in restricted astrological areas - I've already been there and done that, and that leaves no room for either personal or professional growth if one is research inclined. > > To Ranjarajan - I apologize for the confusion. " At a snails pace " is a western term and means moving slowly or sluggishly. It is a terminology used simply to reiterate the fact that a debilitated planet is not happy in his surroundings, and is in no immediate hurry to do what is expected of him. > > > All the Best, > Sandy Crowther > http://www.jupitersweb.com > > > > > > > > > On Behalf Of Balaji G.krishnan > Monday, April 25, 2005 3:42 AM > > Re: Re: Exaltation/Debilitation Revisited > > > Dear sandy and all, > > I am sorry to intervene the discussion going on for a longtime on debilitation and exaltation of planets. > > One of the major welcoming findings of Great guruji K.S.K is " no planet is debilitated or exalted in K.P " .Planets gives the results only by source of its star lord...thats why it is called stellar theory. > > More over,you can very well see personally on your own many charts having exalted planets gives adverse results and planets debilitated gives good results.Why??...Thats the secret of starlord and sub lord theory. > > So,may be as a practitioner of traditional astrology or vedic astrology,we can use those concepts for our satisfaction but the truth is that we are not hitting the right spot. > > I request all the K.P astrologers again to understand the foundation rules and findings of great guruji K.S.K and not to divert else with other insignificant rules. > > K.P is time-tested,well refined and most scientific method in this modern world. > > Its a message for all true K.P followers and not to hurt anybody. > > With regards > Balaji G > Rangarajan Krishnamoorthy <ranga@m...> wrote: > > Dear Sandy, > Thanks for a nice posting. However, I don't think I understand what > you mean by a debilitated planet offering results " at snails pace " > or an exalted planet offering results " quickly " . Does this affect > timing then? We normally use conjoined period of the effective > significators along with transits to establish timing. I can't see > how planetary dignity (its strength as you nicely put it) can affect > this. > > Regards, > Rangarajan > > , " Sandy Crowther " > <sandycrowther@a...> wrote: > > Dear Group, > > > > There appears to be some prevailing confusion about exactly what > Exaltation > > and Debilitation actually mean in evaluation of a KP chart. So > below is a > > brief overview of the planetary interactions, followed by my > humble attempt > > at explaining the effects of exaltation and debilitation, and > their usage in > > KP, according to my understanding of the basic and primary > teachings of the > > KP system. > > > > What we know already is that a planet moving under the influence > of his star > > lord, will act according to the dictates of that star lord. With > that in > > mind, we are also well aware that the planet will predominately > offer the > > results of the house in which the star lord is posited, in > addition to the > > house(s) owned by the star lord. Then, the planet itself, offers > the results > > of the house it occupies and the house(s) it owns. So basically > each planet > > has a role to play, and both the star lord and the planet combine > their > > influence to determine whether the event will be favorable or not. > ( If > > unfamiliar with this concept, more examples of how a planet will > act can be > > found in my article > > <http://www.jupitersweb.com/kp_How%20does%20the%20dasha%20lord% > 20function.ht > > m> KP: How Does the Dasha Lord Function?) > > > > So what exactly does Exalted or Debilitated infer? > > Several indicators are simply " givens " in KP, and must not only be > > considered, but must also be both integrated and synthesized into > your > > analysis before a final determination is made. But according to > sizing up an > > event, only the house results are offered - so where does that > leave the > > sign effects that the planet is placed in - such as the planet's > exalted or > > debilitated status? Here is where much confusion seems prevalent > in KP > > assessments- especially when a planet is badly placed in the 8th > or 12th > > house, but simultaneously exalted in status. Or when a planet is > in a > > debilitated state, but posited in the benefic 11th house? How do > we assess > > these results? > > > > Exaltation and debilitation are " strength " and " weakness " > indicators > > respectively, and therefore their specific job is to give us an > idea of how > > much " muscle " (strength or weakness) the planet carries - within > its > > environment - to carry out its function determined by its house > placement. > > So if a planet is strong due to exaltation, but badly placed in > the 12th, > > the planet does not change its role and become good for the 12th > house, but > > rather the effects are that the planet will not hasten to quickly > carry out > > the functions for his position in any given house, and will > therefore > > quickly bring about loss (or other 12th house function) in a very > timely > > manner. Why? Because he has the strength to act quickly and with > no delay, > > and he is very comfortable where he is positioned in his exalted > status. He > > works fast because he is in a happy and exalted state - caring not > that he > > is working quickly to bring about less than fortunate events. He's > just > > doing his job with the muscle provided to do it with. When the > planet has > > established a set of results that need to be carried out due to > his star > > level placement, exaltation does not absolve him of the adverse > results that > > need to be carried out, and subsequently make the results > pleasant. This is > > simply not the way exaltation and debilitation work, nor is it > part of their > > role as " strength indicators " for a planet. The planets do not > give contrary > > results due to their strength status. > > So, also, do we judge the effects of a planet posited in a good > house but in > > the state of debilitation. This debilitated planet will still > carry out the > > positive acts for the house in which he is posited, but his > strength factor > > will not allow him to do so quickly or in a timely manner. So the > result is > > that he will eventually bring the good effects about, but not in a > timely > > manner or with speed under his wings. He only carries enough > strength to > > respond to his mission in a slow and delayed manner because he is > not happy > > being posited where he is and at the degree at which he is > debilitated, but > > he has a job to do and will carry it out and do his job, but NOT > in a manner > > contrary to what his position indicates - it will just be carried > out at a > > snails pace. > > > > More Apparent " Strength " Confusion: > > Now the KP confusion I'm seeing frequently, and the catch to the > > exaltation/debilitation game is this...Exactly WHEN is a planet > considered > > to be exalted or debilitated? Is is just by being posited in the > respective > > signs of exaltation or debilitation - such as Jupiter is considered > > debilitated simply because he is posited in Capricorn? Or Venus is > > considered exalted just because she is posited in Pisces? The > answer to this > > question is no! There are refinements to strengths and weaknesses > that need > > to be addressed before blanket statements are made due to > assessing these > > planetary strengths and weaknesses. For example, is Jupiter, when > posited at > > 15 Cancer, considered to be in an exalted state? No! Why? Jupiter > is exalted > > at 05 Cancer - not at 15 degrees Cancer. Orbs must be set in place > and > > respected for the effects of exalted or debilitated status to be > truly > > effective - sign positions alone are irrelevant when assessing > planetary > > strengths. So to say that a planet is exalted or debilitated > simply because > > it is posited in its sign of exaltation or debilitation is > incorrect - the > > degrees of the sign placement are necessary to determine whether > that planet > > is truly in an exalted or debilitated state. According to my > understanding, > > the KP preferred orb allowance is 50' on either side of its > exaltation or > > debilitation degree - (less than a degree). Below is a Table > showing the > > exalted and debilitated placements. I sincerely hope this further > clarifies > > the position of exaltation versus debilitation. (If the Table > doesn't > > transmit, I have also uploaded this to my site at > > http://www.jupitersweb.com/kp_exaltation.debilitation% > 20revisited.htm > > (With reference to Navamsha positions, my take on this is that in > KP, this > > varga has been used to further refine the strength of a planet). > > > > > > Planet > > Exalted > > Debilitated > > > > Sun > > 10 Degrees Aries > > 10 Degrees Libra > > > > Moon > > 03 Degrees Taurus > > 03 Degrees Scorpio > > > > Mars > > 28 Degrees Capricorn > > 28 Degrees Cancer > > > > Mercury > > 15 Degrees Virgo > > 15 Degrees Pisces > > > > Jupiter > > 05 Degrees Cancer > > 05 Degrees Capricorn > > > > Venus > > 27 Degrees Pisces > > 27 Degrees Virgo > > > > Saturn > > 20 Libra > > 20 Degrees Aries > > > > Rahu > > 20 Degrees Taurus > > 20 Degrees Scorpio > > > > Ketu > > 20 Degrees Scorpio > > 20 Degrees Taurus > > > > <sandy@t...> > > > > > > All the Best, > > > <http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/40.gif> Sandy > > Crowther > > <http://www.jupitersweb.com/> http://www.jupitersweb.com > > <http://www.jupitersweb.com/> > > > > > India Matrimony: Find your life partner online. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2005 Report Share Posted April 26, 2005 Dear Sunil, Thanks for your support. I feel the list has been hijacked by a few who have little understanding of the basic and core elements of astrology - KP and otherwise - and have taken it upon themselves to preach to the rest what they must accept and what they must reject. It appears to me they simply crave an audience for the sake of having an audience - and this is not in the spirit of Jyotish. These same people appear to have a compromised astrological understanding, have discredited credibility, and are now running the show like little Hitler's. Wisdom cannot fall on closed minds and deaf ears, so best for me to remain silent because I'm not a fighter and will not set myself up for another attack. I dislike (immensely) unwarranted and unfounded controversy. So when the urge strikes to write, I'll just write articles for my website and avoid the hassle of list chaos. :-) Thanks. All the Best, Sandy Crowther http://www.jupitersweb.com On Behalf Of Sunil Joshi Tuesday, April 26, 2005 7:41 AM Re: Re: Exaltation/Debilitation Revisited Dear Sandy, I fully agree with Punitji's views.You are an asset to our group.Please do not move away. Sunil D.Joshi. --- Punit Pandey <punitp wrote: > Sandy ji, > > I am unable to understand the reason behind your > upset. In a forum of 600 > members, few will be takers of your thought and few > will no be. Everyone > works his/ her own way. But as a group policy, no > one is ever restricted to > present new thoughts and ideas. I myself, though the > strong believer of KP, > use ideas from various different branches of > astrology as that works for me. > But you should never think that your ideas/ research > will be accepted so > early. It took years to Sri KSK to get his research > accepted. You will have > to wait and work patiently, only that way you views > can be useful for > others. You will have to supplement your research/ > views with sufficient > examples. > > Regards, > > Punit Pandey > > > On 4/25/05, Sandy Crowther > <sandycrowther wrote: > > > > Dear Balaji, Rangarajan, Kanak, and Group, > > So as to offend no one anymore on this list, this > will be my final post > > here. I simply have no time for this controversy > and I am tired of > > inadvertently upsetting someone over here by a > post meant to be of > > astrological help. I have frequently hesitated to > post on this KP list > > simply because the lid seems to be already tightly > closed on the KP System > > over here, opinions here are strong and forceful, > and further investigation > > is strongly discouraged. I find no acceptance here > at all for further > > research by any seasoned individuals who are > researched inclined and have > > spent years studying astrology - and being forced > to stay within the > > parameters of how someone else perceives the > teachings of Prof. K.S.K is > > simply not acceptable to me. So I will shut my > mouth. No hard feelings - I > > simply have no time for this nonsense. I've done > my homework and therefore I > > blindly follow no one at this stage of my life. We > all have different > > experiences and different opinions, and I value > the individuality present in > > each of us, but personally will not continue to > feel the need to watch my > > back at every post - it's a waste of my time. > Having read Prof K.S.K.'sReaders myself, I am of the > opinion that Prof. > > K.S.K strongly encouraged research by serious > astrologers or students of > > astrology and that his system was not meant to be > a " closed system " at all, > > but that is my opinion and perception of his > writings, and not my call to > > make here on this list. Others here have perceived > his writings and word as > > the final word on KP with no additional research > or investigation needed, > > and that is their decision to make and their path > to follow also - and I can > > respect that. But to keep peace and save myself > time I don't have in writing > > posts like this one, I will keep my opinions to > myself from this point on. > > My final comments... > > I've been studying and practicing astrology for > the good part of 35 > > years, and in my not so humble opinion, assessing > planetary strength need > > not be thrown out simple because it is > misunderstood, incorrectly applied, > > or because we use the star lord and sub lord > theory in KP. One is compatible > > with the other. Yes - I have seen cases where > where supposed debilitation > > didn't work and neither did exaltation for some > astrologers - and in those > > cases, upon closer inspection I found that these > planetary strengths were > > not applied correctly - hence the reason for my > post on > > exaltation/debilitation. So am I going to throw > these concepts out? Not a > > chance. My goal is to attain predictive accuracy - > my goal is NOT to walk in > > restricted astrological areas - I've already been > there and done that, and > > that leaves no room for either personal or > professional growth if one is > > research inclined. > > To Ranjarajan - I apologize for the confusion. > " At a snails pace " is a > > western term and means moving slowly or > sluggishly. It is a terminology used > > simply to reiterate the fact that a debilitated > planet is not happy in his > > surroundings, and is in no immediate hurry to do > what is expected of him. > > All the Best, > > Sandy Crowther > > http://www.jupitersweb.com > > > > > > ** > *On > > Behalf Of *Balaji G.krishnan > > *Sent:* Monday, April 25, 2005 3:42 AM > > *To:* > > *Subject:* Re: Re: > Exaltation/Debilitation Revisited > > > > Dear sandy and all, > > I am sorry to intervene the discussion going on > for a longtime on > > debilitation and exaltation of planets. > > One of the major welcoming findings of Great > guruji K.S.K is " no planet > > is debilitated or exalted in K.P " .Planets gives > the results only by source > > of its star lord...thats why it is called stellar > theory. > > > > More over,you can very well see personally on your > own many charts having > > exalted planets gives adverse results and planets > debilitated gives good > > results.Why??...Thats the secret of starlord and > sub lord theory. > > So,may be as a practitioner of traditional > astrology or vedic > > astrology,we can use those concepts for our > satisfaction but the truth is > > that we are not hitting the right spot. > > I request all the K.P astrologers again to > understand the foundation > > rules and findings of great guruji K.S.K and not > to divert else with other > > insignificant rules. > > K.P is time-tested,well refined and most > scientific method in this modern > > world. > > Its a message for all true K.P followers and not > to hurt anybody. > > With regards > > Balaji G > > *Rangarajan Krishnamoorthy <ranga* > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sandy, > > Thanks for a nice posting. However, I don't think > I understand what > > you mean by a debilitated planet offering results > " at snails pace " > > or an exalted planet offering results " quickly " . > Does this affect > > timing then? We normally use conjoined period of > the effective > > significators along with transits to establish > timing. I can't see > > how planetary dignity (its strength as you nicely > put it) can affect > > this. > > > > Regards, > > Rangarajan > > > > , " Sandy > Crowther " > > <sandycrowther@a...> wrote: > > > Dear Group, > > > > > > There appears to be some prevailing confusion > about exactly what > > Exaltation > > > and Debilitation actually mean in evaluation of > a KP chart. So > > below is a > > > brief overview of the planetary interactions, > followed by my > > humble attempt > > > at explaining the effects of exaltation and > debilitation, and > > their usage in > > > KP, according to my understanding of the basic > and === message truncated === Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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