Guest guest Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 Dear Ron, Amitabh, TW, and Group, Thanks guys for contributing your 2 cents on all this…all points taken and well received. I certainly agree that the transits definitely must support the dashas, and that the significator’s sublords also play a highly significant role. I think that the “keys” to all the points raised may just be in looking for confluence, synthesis, and integration of all factors mentioned – but we all need a starting place from which to proceed when looking for a needle in a haystack. So a starting place to work from to narrow things down may just be to begin with 5 levels of dashas - (just a theory of mine, and not carved in concrete at this point in time – more work needs to be done). One thing I didn’t mention earlier is that another reason why I chose to submit the double Saturn dasha sub period is because I noted it would be a good diagnostic starting point to experiment with - given the fact that Saturn is a significator of both 10th and 11th houses which I felt were highly relevant to the question - along with Sa being in the sign, star, and subs of Mo/Sa/Sa/Sa/Ve respectively, while dispositor Moon was posited in the sign, star and subs of Sa/Su/Ve/Sa/Ju. So I wanted to determine how strong Saturn really could function to be able to pull this off “singularly”, when in comparison to pretty much dismissing the other 2 significators that could assist: Venus and Mercury. (My personal opinion is that Saturn has inherent “natural” qualities to consider – no matter in what capacity it is chosen to function - and that therefore the help of BOTH Venus and Mercury – along with Ketu – may have been not only required, but necessary, to pull this off. Ron, I enjoyed your analysis and theories. Also consider this – Solar Eclipse Mars is in natal 11th quincunx Part of Fortune (PF) – which brings me to my next point. I think considerations to the PF are also crucial in KP – let me explain… According to researchers of the ancient astrological texts, the correct method for calculating the PF is to use different formulas for day versus night births. For example: Asc + Moon – Sun for day births and Asc + Sun – Moon for night births. Most software programs favor (by default) the day birth methodology – so perhaps it is time we do our own testing on this, to determine what hits are relevant on day versus night births and whether we should just use one formula, or entertain the theories of the researchers that went before us, and use different formulas for day versus night births. (Both Shri Jyoti Star and Solar Fire 5 give us options for use of either – but most software uses the day births formula by default.) Anyway – for the day birth formula, the PF in KPBC4 is 01 Li 37, while using the night birth formula we have 17 SC 59. I haven’t taken the time yet to do a comparison on the hits of both day and night formulas, but a quick look using the night formula for calculating PF (which KPBC4 is) is that transit PF on the 27th of June, 2000 is applying conjunct Asc within an orb of 1:29 and additionally trine natal Mercury – who is sublord of Ascendant – (bringing good fortune to this man via communications/letters, etc.) Just more stuff to consider when we have 2 more seconds in a row of unaccounted for time. J All the Best, Sandy Crowther http://www.jupitersweb.com rongaunt [rongaunt] Friday, December 17, 2004 7:51 AM KPBC4 analysis I thought I would try my hand at this BC by using prasna - something new to me. I thought the best way was to avoid the question of houses, and go straight to the timing through dasas. Therefor my query was " What planets are in the dasas for KPBA4 during the period of the 3 job offers? " The following is the date and number for the query: Date 16th December 2004 Time 01:01:40pm Brisbane, Australia 27S28 153E02 KP Prasna Number 64 Lagna 00 Cancer 33'20 " Ruling Planets are: Day - Jupiter Lagna Lord - Moon Lagna Star - Jupiter Moon Sign - Saturn Moon Star - Mars In addition - Rahu (being in Mars sign) All are strong being in other RPs Stars (except Rahu) but Rahu takes over from Mars anyhow. The exercise was to find the three day period where the native received 3 good job offers during the period beginning May 2000 to end July 2000. Looking at the native's dasas for this three month period we see Rahu/Saturn/Rahu ceasing on 3rd June 2000 when Rahu/Saturn/Jupiter took over. This was followed by Rahu/Merc/Merc/ commencing 19th October 2000 Rahu/Saturn are RPs therefore correct, and now I had to find the Pratyantardasha. Is it Rahu or Jupiter? I chose Jupiter because it was very strong being the Lagna Star Lord in the Star of the Moon. Also Jupiter is the Day Lord. This narrows the time of the event from 3rd June to end July 2000. I think any KP astrologer even a beginner would come to this point without too much difficulty using the above data. However, now analysis becomes more difficult - having to choose the Sookshma antardasha. Rahu/Saturn/Jupiter/Jupiter started on 3rd June 2000 and Rahu/Saturn/Jupiter/Saturn started on 21st June to 13th July 2000 So is the Sookshma Lord Jupiter or Saturn? This is a hard one because both Jupiter and Saturn are strong R.Ps. Fortunately, a few days ago I received the book 'Rectification of Birth Time' In it the author twice states that to decide the sub sub ie Sookshama Lord, take any planet that is in the Asc. In this case Saturn in the Prasna is less than two degrees conjunction with the Lagna. Therefore Saturn is the planet required and we narrow down the period of the event from 21st June to 13th July 2000. Now I needed to find the Praana-antardasha. Here I was totally lost. I skimmed through my books and found no reference as to how to select the Praana Lord. On a hunch and realizing that here we were dealing with daily changes I thought that transits may provide the answer. First however, I checked out the last Solar Eclipse (SE) because I consider that this is the crucible of events. This of course is checked relative to the natal chart. It is well worth studying because it is a mine of information. But I will restrict comments to the salient points. The SE point is on the Rasi Lagna of the 10th house of the birth chart - highlighting employment issues. SE point is also conunct the MC which being the Placidean 10th cusp again shows career emphasis. The natal MC is also closely aspected by SE Saturn Lord of the 10th house. SE Jupiter aspects natal Saturn, Sun, Moon and Uranus. SE Mars exactly aspects natal Rahu and closely aspects natal Saturn. So we see all the Prasna RP planets very active. But the planet that stands out a mile is Ketu. In the natal chart Mars exactly aspects the Moon by trine. Both of these are RP planets in the prasna. In the SE, Ketu comes exact aspect by Star and Sub Lords both these planets by conjuncting the Moon. At the time of the event Ketu had moved on to exactly aspect natal Ketu by trine, in the same Star and Sub Lords. At the same time transit Saturn had come exact conjunction with natal Ketu again in the same Star and Sub Lords. Also transit Jupiter is close conjunction with transit Saturn and both conjunct natal Ketu and Mars. So this involvement of Ketu with all these RP planets suggest to me that we should consider Ketu as the Praana-antardasha Lord. In this case we end up with dasa sequence of : Rahu/Saturn/Jupiter/Saturn/Ketu which equates to 28th June 2000 the mid day of the 3 day target period. Ron Gaunt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2004 Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 Dear Sandy, Ron and Group, Job profit, Gains II Me, Ve, Ve VI Me X Sa XI Sa Job Changes III Sa, Sa, Me XII Ra, Ju, Ra, Ju V Me, Mo, Ma, Ke, Su IX Mo, Ra, Ju As Upadhyaya, Srinivasa is asking about `Prasna - Job change' in Msg #1959, the most crucial test is: 1. to choose significators for dasa lords; 2. to decide the sequence of dasa lords in dasa levels up to 4th (usually in KP examples) or 5th. On timing of events, in a Natal chart usually it is chosen by Planet significators and transits of the Planets to time an event accurately (also taking into consideration of sublords, house relations, strength of planets); in a Horary chart by House significators supported by Ruling Planets, with transit of Sun and Moon to pin down the date etc. Ra/Sa/Ju/Sa/Me June 25-27, 2000 Ra/Sa/Ju/Sa/Ke June 28, 2000 Ra/Sa/Ju/Sa/Ve June 29, 2000 Mercury and Ketu are not among ruling planets of Horary chart in Brisbane, and Mercury is in retrograde (which can not be taken in Horary as per KP). Transits of planets on June 28, 2000 are in Sgl of Mo, Ma, Me, Ve & Sa, Stl of Su, Ju, Ve & Ra and Sbl of Me, Ju, Ve & Ra which are in the abovementioned dasa sequences except Su, Mo & Ma. Jupiter is strong due to Vargothama and conjunct with karaka Sun exalted in Navamsa and; Mercury exalted in Navamsa and in Stl Venus which is in Vargothama. Saturn is the only one significator of 10th & 11th, also in 10th of Navamsa, but deposited in the opposite sign of its own and the same thing with its depositor Moon. Since it is not easy even to justify the choice of dasa lords and their sequence in Ra/Sa/Ju/Sa/Ke for a post mortem study, it will be very difficult to do it in advance for a KP learner like me (but not for astrologer Haveli Ram Joshi who astonishingly foretold an exact date for Pandit Nehru's death five years earlier, `Nehru, The Invention of India' by Shashi Tharoor, 2003, New York, p 214). Fortuna as per KP is taken as Moon plus Asc minus Sun (KP Reader I, 1982, p 98) like Pars Fortune, but not like Punya Saham of Neelakantha or Venkatesa (Fortune or Auspiciousness) differentiating day birth or night birth, in B V Raman's Varshaphal or Sumeet Chugh's Varshphal. Any research is welcome in this regard. (Mutha is in 11th of the annual Horoscope for 1999-2000; in 1st of May-June 200 Mothly Horoscope and 8th of June-July 2000 Monthly Horoscope and 2nd in July- August 2000 Monthly Horoscope indicating to choose Mercury Sookshma dasa.) Best regards, tw , " Sandy Crowther " <sandy@t...> wrote: > Dear Ron, Amitabh, TW, and Group, > > > > Thanks guys for contributing your 2 cents on all this.all points taken > and well received. I certainly agree that the transits definitely must > support the dashas, and that the significator's sublords also play a > highly significant role. I think that the " keys " to all the points > raised may just be in looking for confluence, synthesis, and integration > of all factors mentioned - but we all need a starting place from which > to proceed when looking for a needle in a haystack. So a starting place > to work from to narrow things down may just be to begin with 5 levels of > dashas - (just a theory of mine, and not carved in concrete at this > point in time - more work needs to be done). > > > > One thing I didn't mention earlier is that another reason why I chose to > submit the double Saturn dasha sub period is because I noted it would be > a good diagnostic starting point to experiment with - given the fact > that Saturn is a significator of both 10th and 11th houses which I felt > were highly relevant to the question - along with Sa being in the sign, > star, and subs of Mo/Sa/Sa/Sa/Ve respectively, while dispositor Moon was > posited in the sign, star and subs of Sa/Su/Ve/Sa/Ju. So I wanted to > determine how strong Saturn really could function to be able to pull > this off " singularly " , when in comparison to pretty much dismissing the > other 2 significators that could assist: Venus and Mercury. (My personal > opinion is that Saturn has inherent " natural " qualities to consider - no > matter in what capacity it is chosen to function - and that therefore > the help of BOTH Venus and Mercury - along with Ketu - may have been not > only required, but necessary, to pull this off. > > > > Ron, I enjoyed your analysis and theories. Also consider this - Solar > Eclipse Mars is in natal 11th quincunx Part of Fortune (PF) - which > brings me to my next point. I think considerations to the PF are also > crucial in KP - let me explain. > > > > According to researchers of the ancient astrological texts, the correct > method for calculating the PF is to use different formulas for day > versus night births. For example: Asc + Moon - Sun for day births and > Asc + Sun - Moon for night births. Most software programs favor (by > default) the day birth methodology - so perhaps it is time we do our own > testing on this, to determine what hits are relevant on day versus night > births and whether we should just use one formula, or entertain the > theories of the researchers that went before us, and use different > formulas for day versus night births. (Both Shri Jyoti Star and Solar > Fire 5 give us options for use of either - but most software uses the > day births formula by default.) > > > > Anyway - for the day birth formula, the PF in KPBC4 is 01 Li 37, while > using the night birth formula we have 17 SC 59. I haven't taken the time > yet to do a comparison on the hits of both day and night formulas, but a > quick look using the night formula for calculating PF (which KPBC4 is) > is that transit PF on the 27th of June, 2000 is applying conjunct Asc > within an orb of 1:29 and additionally trine natal Mercury - who is > sublord of Ascendant - (bringing good fortune to this man via > communications/letters, etc.) Just more stuff to consider when we have 2 > more seconds in a row of unaccounted for time. :-) > > > > All the Best, > > <http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/40.gif> > Sandy Crowther > > <http://www.jupitersweb.com> http://www.jupitersweb.com > > > > > > > > rongaunt [rongaunt@b...] > Friday, December 17, 2004 7:51 AM > > KPBC4 analysis > > > > > I thought I would try my hand at this BC by using prasna - > something new to me. I thought the best way was to avoid > the question of houses, and go straight to the timing through > dasas. Therefor my query was " What planets are in the dasas > for KPBA4 during the period of the 3 job offers? " > > The following is the date and number for the query: > > Date 16th December 2004 > Time 01:01:40pm > Brisbane, Australia > 27S28 153E02 > > KP Prasna Number 64 Lagna 00 Cancer 33'20 " > > Ruling Planets are: > > Day - Jupiter > Lagna Lord - Moon > Lagna Star - Jupiter > Moon Sign - Saturn > Moon Star - Mars > In addition - Rahu (being in Mars sign) > > All are strong being in other RPs Stars (except Rahu) > but Rahu takes over from Mars anyhow. > > The exercise was to find the three day period where the native > received 3 good job offers during the period beginning May 2000 > to end July 2000. > > Looking at the native's dasas for this three month period we see > Rahu/Saturn/Rahu ceasing on 3rd June 2000 when > Rahu/Saturn/Jupiter took over. This was followed by > Rahu/Merc/Merc/ commencing 19th October 2000 > > Rahu/Saturn are RPs therefore correct, and now I had to find the > Pratyantardasha. Is it Rahu or Jupiter? I chose Jupiter > because it was very strong being the Lagna Star Lord in the Star > of the Moon. Also Jupiter is the Day Lord. This narrows the > time of the event from 3rd June to end July 2000. I think any > KP astrologer even a beginner would come to this point without > too much difficulty using the above data. However, now > analysis becomes more difficult - having to choose the Sookshma > antardasha. > > Rahu/Saturn/Jupiter/Jupiter started on 3rd June 2000 and > Rahu/Saturn/Jupiter/Saturn started on 21st June to 13th July 2000 > > So is the Sookshma Lord Jupiter or Saturn? This is a hard one > because both Jupiter and Saturn are strong R.Ps. Fortunately, > a few days ago I received the book 'Rectification of Birth Time' > In it the author twice states that to decide the sub sub ie > Sookshama Lord, take any planet that is in the Asc. In this > case Saturn in the Prasna is less than two degrees conjunction > with the Lagna. Therefore Saturn is the planet required and we > narrow down the period of the event from 21st June to 13th July > 2000. > > Now I needed to find the Praana-antardasha. Here I was totally > lost. I skimmed through my books and found no reference as to > how to select the Praana Lord. On a hunch and realizing that > here we were dealing with daily changes I thought that transits > may provide the answer. > > First however, I checked out the last Solar Eclipse (SE) because > I consider that this is the crucible of events. This of course > is checked relative to the natal chart. It is well worth > studying because it is a mine of information. But I will > restrict comments to the salient points. The SE point is on > the Rasi Lagna of the 10th house of the birth chart - > highlighting employment issues. SE point is also conunct > the MC which being the Placidean 10th cusp again shows career > emphasis. The natal MC is also closely aspected by SE Saturn > Lord of the 10th house. > SE Jupiter aspects natal Saturn, Sun, Moon and Uranus. SE Mars > exactly aspects natal Rahu and closely aspects natal Saturn. So > we see all the Prasna RP planets very active. > > But the planet that stands out a mile is Ketu. In the natal > chart Mars exactly aspects the Moon by trine. Both of these are > RP planets in the prasna. In the SE, Ketu comes exact aspect > by Star and Sub Lords both these planets by conjuncting the Moon. > At the time of the event Ketu had moved on to exactly aspect > natal Ketu by trine, in the same Star and Sub Lords. At the > same time transit Saturn had come exact conjunction with natal > Ketu again in the same Star and Sub Lords. Also transit > Jupiter is close conjunction with transit Saturn and both > conjunct natal Ketu and Mars. So this involvement of Ketu > with all these RP planets suggest to me that we should consider > Ketu as the Praana-antardasha Lord. > > In this case we end up with dasa sequence of : > Rahu/Saturn/Jupiter/Saturn/Ketu which equates to 28th June 2000 > the mid day of the 3 day target period. > > > Ron Gaunt > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.