Lal Kitab Course;clash of intersts-- punit

October 13, 2004

punit ji,

we didn't know that u also are working on a magazine on lalkitab. But

now as we do we drop this idea.rest assured there will be no clash of

interests. regarding the course all members of the faculty will most

probably from this group only;

yorgaj prabhakar, umesh sharma, rajiv k khattar, vipin shukla, sheikh

hameed pervez, rakesh sahgal, Dr. gopal krishan sharma have so far

offered their services there may be others also but these names are in

my knowledge.

as you know almost all the members; experts or novices are interested

in a formal course. if u have any idea in ur mind about this also kindly

let the group know about it.

kulbir singh bains

lalkitab , Punit Pandey <punitp@g...> wrote:

> Kulbir ji,

>

> Seminar was disappointment for me. We have invested too much time

and

> energy on seminar. At the end, the group received nothing in return.

> So this time I am going to pay attention to every group related

> activity very closely and only then I'll allow the usage of the forum.

> Right now it is not a forum-supported activity like seminar so forum

> should not be used for any promotional purpose till the time it gets

> supported.

>

> Please clarify that who all are behind the idea of this course and

> what is the benefit of the forum. Only after answering these

> questions, we should think about using the forum any further.

>

> We are also working on one magazine on Lal Kitab and it can result in

> clash of interest in future. I want to avoid it as much as possible.

>

> Regards,

>

> Punit Pandey

>

> On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 22:46:01 -0700 (PDT), ceeta bains

> <ceetabains> wrote:

> >

> > Punit ji, your concerns are not unfounded. But on line course also

has some

> > limitations. I am sending the proposals agreed upon till date. rest

assured

> > any activity in this regard will be started with your exclusive consent.

> > After all its by ur efforts that we have achieved so much.

> > First of all there is a practical problem; although the experts are

> > presently saying that they are ready to undertake the teaching on

> > humanitarian grounds only but its my observation that if it doesn't

even

> > compensates there expenses alone, the enthusiasm will whither

away in no

> > time. On the other hand if the cost/fee is such that it stinks of profit

> > making the students will not take it as seriously or sacredly as we

suppose

> > them to take it and the very puose will be lost.

> > Secondly the experts are also highly sought after and the people

and some

> > institutions are also after them to start teaching this system.

> > In the forum or on the net we can have at the most 20-30 students,

but

> > outside the net we have already received offer from 200 students

apart from

> > the instituttions. Wider number of students makes the cost on

indiuidual

> > student virtually negligble. This way the teacher is compensated

without any

> > burden on the students. It's correct that the members of this forum

are

> > affulent and can pay high fees also but why should we ignore those

who have

> > the interest but cannot afford.

> > As a way out the proposal is a correspondence course with

minimum cost. The

> > notes will be send to the students by post on monthly or fortnightly

baiss

> > they can send back their querries and so on interactive session will

begin.

> > The course material will include books free. A magazine will also be

started

> > soon on quarterly basis having articles of high academic value and

research.

> > The stress on this correspondence course will be on practical

problems that

> > too on kundalis of the students alone.

> > The forum members will have the added advantage of being in

touch with the

> > teachers on regular baisis. Otherwise the teachers will meet the

students in

> > different cities on rotational basis. There is no need for students to

come

> > to delhi or any other city. Any central city may be selected which

surrounds

> > small towns etc. and the teachers will meet them there as per there

> > convenience.

> > The essential part is to get this book to maximum students in such a

way

> > that the students are offered teaching at minimum cost but not at

the cost

> > of the teachers. They have to be compensated in order to keep

there

> > enthusiasm alive.

> > these are mere proposals any final decision will be taken after the

forum's

> > go ahead. Kindly send in your suggestion and doubts if any.

> >

> > Kulbir Singh Bains.

> >

> > Punit Pandey <punitp@g...> wrote:

> > Rakesh ji,

> >

> > I have suspicion about the utility of face-to-face courses. I have

> > seen that even the last physical event i.e. seminar has not proved

> > much useful for group members and only a few members get

benefited. We

> > talked about various things like videotapes, discussion material,

> > articles, pictures etc. that will be available to all. But as we all

> > know it is always difficult to bring offline information to online.

> > This forum should not be used for any such activities that are going

> > to benefit only limited number of people.

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Punit Pandey

> >

> > On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:29:10 -0000, rakeshsahgal

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Hi Punit

> > >

> > > Online courses for sure help in bridging the geographical divide

and

> > > are in my opinion the preferred option.

> > >

> > > However this direction is by no means exclusionary(correct

word?).

> > > Face to face interfaces wherever possible can greatly enhance the

> > > value of online courses. There is however the question of

increased

> > > logistic requirement.

> > >

> > > The best judges of the direction are in anycase the people who

will be

> > > conducting the courses.

> > >

> > > We have to hear from the few experts there are on the forum

about

> > > their views. I hope they will find fit to share their thoughts and

> > > opinions soon enough, as every one is very excited about this

> > > initiative.

> > >

> > > Regards

> > >

> > > R S

> > >

> > > lalkitab , Punit Pandey <punitp@g...>

wrote:

> > > > Hello Friends,

> > > >

> > > > Recently a discussion is started to have a course to help

learning

> > > Lal

> > > > Kitab. It seems a great idea to have course on Lal Kitab. In my

> > > > opinion we must think in the direction of online courses only.

> > > People

> > > > here are from different locations and having different

availability.

> > > > So thinking of physical course doesn't seem good idea to me.

> > > >

> > > > Another point is any offline event seems not in sync with the

> > > > objective of the group. I welcome all ideas that can supplement

> > > > learning process of this forum but I am against the idea of

anything

> > > > that cannot benefit all members of the forum and is restricted to

> > > only

> > > > few members.

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > >

> > > > Punit Pandey

> > >

> >

> > ________________________________

> >

> > vote. - Register online to vote today!

> >

October 13, 2004

Kulbir

We must not be ungrateful and do anything that harms the commerical

interests of our friend Punit.

This group has come into existence because of him and his efforts. The

group members got to know each other because of his efforts in

creating and promoting the group. I for one became familiar with Lal

Kitab because of this group, so I atleast am indebted to Punit. If

this course or any such exercises are detrimental to the interests of

our friend and host, it is only fair that such exercises be conducted

elsewhere.

This is just my opinion and I hope things will not come to such a

pass.

Regards

R S

lalkitab , " Kulbir Singh Bains "

<ceetabains> wrote:

>

> punit ji,

> we didn't know that u also are working on a magazine on lalkitab.

But

> now as we do we drop this idea.rest assured there will be no clash

of

> interests. regarding the course all members of the faculty will

most

> probably from this group only;

> yorgaj prabhakar, umesh sharma, rajiv k khattar, vipin shukla,

sheikh

> hameed pervez, rakesh sahgal, Dr. gopal krishan sharma have so far

> offered their services there may be others also but these names are

in

> my knowledge.

> as you know almost all the members; experts or novices are

interested

> in a formal course. if u have any idea in ur mind about this also

kindly

> let the group know about it.

> kulbir singh bains

>

> lalkitab , Punit Pandey <punitp@g...>

wrote:

> > Kulbir ji,

> >

> > Seminar was disappointment for me. We have invested too much time

> and

> > energy on seminar. At the end, the group received nothing in

return.

> > So this time I am going to pay attention to every group related

> > activity very closely and only then I'll allow the usage of the

forum.

> > Right now it is not a forum-supported activity like seminar so

forum

> > should not be used for any promotional purpose till the time it

gets

> > supported.

> >

> > Please clarify that who all are behind the idea of this course and

> > what is the benefit of the forum. Only after answering these

> > questions, we should think about using the forum any further.

> >

> > We are also working on one magazine on Lal Kitab and it can

result in

> > clash of interest in future. I want to avoid it as much as

possible.

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Punit Pandey

> >

> > On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 22:46:01 -0700 (PDT), ceeta bains

> > <ceetabains> wrote:

> > >

> > > Punit ji, your concerns are not unfounded. But on line course

also

> has some

> > > limitations. I am sending the proposals agreed upon till date.

rest

> assured

> > > any activity in this regard will be started with your exclusive

consent.

> > > After all its by ur efforts that we have achieved so much.

> > > First of all there is a practical problem; although the experts

are

> > > presently saying that they are ready to undertake the teaching

on

> > > humanitarian grounds only but its my observation that if it

doesn't

> even

> > > compensates there expenses alone, the enthusiasm will whither

> away in no

> > > time. On the other hand if the cost/fee is such that it stinks

of profit

> > > making the students will not take it as seriously or sacredly

as we

> suppose

> > > them to take it and the very puose will be lost.

> > > Secondly the experts are also highly sought after and the

people

> and some

> > > institutions are also after them to start teaching this system.

> > > In the forum or on the net we can have at the most 20-30

students,

> but

> > > outside the net we have already received offer from 200

students

> apart from

> > > the instituttions. Wider number of students makes the cost on

> indiuidual

> > > student virtually negligble. This way the teacher is

compensated

> without any

> > > burden on the students. It's correct that the members of this

forum

> are

> > > affulent and can pay high fees also but why should we ignore

those

> who have

> > > the interest but cannot afford.

> > > As a way out the proposal is a correspondence course with

> minimum cost. The

> > > notes will be send to the students by post on monthly or

fortnightly

> baiss

> > > they can send back their querries and so on interactive session

will

> begin.

> > > The course material will include books free. A magazine will

also be

> started

> > > soon on quarterly basis having articles of high academic value

and

> research.

> > > The stress on this correspondence course will be on practical

> problems that

> > > too on kundalis of the students alone.

> > > The forum members will have the added advantage of being in

> touch with the

> > > teachers on regular baisis. Otherwise the teachers will meet

the

> students in

> > > different cities on rotational basis. There is no need for

students to

> come

> > > to delhi or any other city. Any central city may be selected

which

> surrounds

> > > small towns etc. and the teachers will meet them there as per

there

> > > convenience.

> > > The essential part is to get this book to maximum students in

such a

> way

> > > that the students are offered teaching at minimum cost but not

at

> the cost

> > > of the teachers. They have to be compensated in order to keep

> there

> > > enthusiasm alive.

> > > these are mere proposals any final decision will be taken after

the

> forum's

> > > go ahead. Kindly send in your suggestion and doubts if any.

> > >

> > > Kulbir Singh Bains.

> > >

> > > Punit Pandey <punitp@g...> wrote:

> > > Rakesh ji,

> > >

> > > I have suspicion about the utility of face-to-face courses. I

have

> > > seen that even the last physical event i.e. seminar has not

proved

> > > much useful for group members and only a few members get

> benefited. We

> > > talked about various things like videotapes, discussion

material,

> > > articles, pictures etc. that will be available to all. But as

we all

> > > know it is always difficult to bring offline information to

online.

> > > This forum should not be used for any such activities that are

going

> > > to benefit only limited number of people.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > > Punit Pandey

> > >

> > > On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:29:10 -0000, rakeshsahgal

> <rakeshsahgal>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Hi Punit

> > > >

> > > > Online courses for sure help in bridging the geographical

divide

> and

> > > > are in my opinion the preferred option.

> > > >

> > > > However this direction is by no means exclusionary(correct

> word?).

> > > > Face to face interfaces wherever possible can greatly enhance

the

> > > > value of online courses. There is however the question of

> increased

> > > > logistic requirement.

> > > >

> > > > The best judges of the direction are in anycase the people

who

> will be

> > > > conducting the courses.

> > > >

> > > > We have to hear from the few experts there are on the forum

> about

> > > > their views. I hope they will find fit to share their

thoughts and

> > > > opinions soon enough, as every one is very excited about this

> > > > initiative.

> > > >

> > > > Regards

> > > >

> > > > R S

> > > >

> > > > lalkitab , Punit Pandey <punitp@g...>

> wrote:

> > > > > Hello Friends,

> > > > >

> > > > > Recently a discussion is started to have a course to help

> learning

> > > > Lal

> > > > > Kitab. It seems a great idea to have course on Lal Kitab.

In my

> > > > > opinion we must think in the direction of online courses

only.

> > > > People

> > > > > here are from different locations and having different

> availability.

> > > > > So thinking of physical course doesn't seem good idea to me.

> > > > >

> > > > > Another point is any offline event seems not in sync with

the

> > > > > objective of the group. I welcome all ideas that can

supplement

> > > > > learning process of this forum but I am against the idea of

> anything

> > > > > that cannot benefit all members of the forum and is

restricted to

> > > > only

> > > > > few members.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > >

> > > > > Punit Pandey

> > > >

> > >

> > > ________________________________

> > >

> > > vote. - Register online to vote today!

> > >

October 13, 2004

Kulbir ji/ Rakesh ji,

Beyond ego, vested interests & commercial interests, my questions

remained unanswered. I had raised few questions in my last mail and I

believe that those must be answered. For example what happened to the

claim that the group will be informed with all activities. It is

nearly one month after seminar but what information has made available

here? It happened before and after the seminar. There are many things

that even I was not knowing and people were thinking that I am behind

all those activities. I have already discussed it with Prabhakar ji

and Umesh ji and informed them about my disappointment. I am not able

to understand whose vested interests are there and what is the reason

behind it. If someone has commercial objectives, why don't put on

board and discuss?

Regards,

Punit Pandey

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:13:51 -0000, rakeshsahgal <rakeshsahgal wrote:

>

> Kulbir

>

> We must not be ungrateful and do anything that harms the commerical

> interests of our friend Punit.

>

> This group has come into existence because of him and his efforts. The

> group members got to know each other because of his efforts in

> creating and promoting the group. I for one became familiar with Lal

> Kitab because of this group, so I atleast am indebted to Punit. If

> this course or any such exercises are detrimental to the interests of

> our friend and host, it is only fair that such exercises be conducted

> elsewhere.

>

> This is just my opinion and I hope things will not come to such a

> pass.

>

> Regards

>

> R S

>

> lalkitab , " Kulbir Singh Bains "

>

> <ceetabains> wrote:

> >

> > punit ji,

> > we didn't know that u also are working on a magazine on lalkitab.

> But

> > now as we do we drop this idea.rest assured there will be no clash

> of

> > interests. regarding the course all members of the faculty will

> most

> > probably from this group only;

> > yorgaj prabhakar, umesh sharma, rajiv k khattar, vipin shukla,

> sheikh

> > hameed pervez, rakesh sahgal, Dr. gopal krishan sharma have so far

> > offered their services there may be others also but these names are

> in

> > my knowledge.

> > as you know almost all the members; experts or novices are

> interested

> > in a formal course. if u have any idea in ur mind about this also

> kindly

> > let the group know about it.

> > kulbir singh bains

> >

> > lalkitab , Punit Pandey <punitp@g...>

> wrote:

> > > Kulbir ji,

> > >

> > > Seminar was disappointment for me. We have invested too much time

> > and

> > > energy on seminar. At the end, the group received nothing in

> return.

> > > So this time I am going to pay attention to every group related

> > > activity very closely and only then I'll allow the usage of the

> forum.

> > > Right now it is not a forum-supported activity like seminar so

> forum

> > > should not be used for any promotional purpose till the time it

> gets

> > > supported.

> > >

> > > Please clarify that who all are behind the idea of this course and

> > > what is the benefit of the forum. Only after answering these

> > > questions, we should think about using the forum any further.

> > >

> > > We are also working on one magazine on Lal Kitab and it can

> result in

> > > clash of interest in future. I want to avoid it as much as

> possible.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > > Punit Pandey

> > >

> > > On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 22:46:01 -0700 (PDT), ceeta bains

> > > <ceetabains> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Punit ji, your concerns are not unfounded. But on line course

> also

> > has some

> > > > limitations. I am sending the proposals agreed upon till date.

> rest

> > assured

> > > > any activity in this regard will be started with your exclusive

> consent.

> > > > After all its by ur efforts that we have achieved so much.

> > > > First of all there is a practical problem; although the experts

> are

> > > > presently saying that they are ready to undertake the teaching

> on

> > > > humanitarian grounds only but its my observation that if it

> doesn't

> > even

> > > > compensates there expenses alone, the enthusiasm will whither

> > away in no

> > > > time. On the other hand if the cost/fee is such that it stinks

> of profit

> > > > making the students will not take it as seriously or sacredly

> as we

> > suppose

> > > > them to take it and the very puose will be lost.

> > > > Secondly the experts are also highly sought after and the

> people

> > and some

> > > > institutions are also after them to start teaching this system.

> > > > In the forum or on the net we can have at the most 20-30

> students,

> > but

> > > > outside the net we have already received offer from 200

> students

> > apart from

> > > > the instituttions. Wider number of students makes the cost on

> > indiuidual

> > > > student virtually negligble. This way the teacher is

> compensated

> > without any

> > > > burden on the students. It's correct that the members of this

> forum

> > are

> > > > affulent and can pay high fees also but why should we ignore

> those

> > who have

> > > > the interest but cannot afford.

> > > > As a way out the proposal is a correspondence course with

> > minimum cost. The

> > > > notes will be send to the students by post on monthly or

> fortnightly

> > baiss

> > > > they can send back their querries and so on interactive session

> will

> > begin.

> > > > The course material will include books free. A magazine will

> also be

> > started

> > > > soon on quarterly basis having articles of high academic value

> and

> > research.

> > > > The stress on this correspondence course will be on practical

> > problems that

> > > > too on kundalis of the students alone.

> > > > The forum members will have the added advantage of being in

> > touch with the

> > > > teachers on regular baisis. Otherwise the teachers will meet

> the

> > students in

> > > > different cities on rotational basis. There is no need for

> students to

> > come

> > > > to delhi or any other city. Any central city may be selected

> which

> > surrounds

> > > > small towns etc. and the teachers will meet them there as per

> there

> > > > convenience.

> > > > The essential part is to get this book to maximum students in

> such a

> > way

> > > > that the students are offered teaching at minimum cost but not

> at

> > the cost

> > > > of the teachers. They have to be compensated in order to keep

> > there

> > > > enthusiasm alive.

> > > > these are mere proposals any final decision will be taken after

> the

> > forum's

> > > > go ahead. Kindly send in your suggestion and doubts if any.

> > > >

> > > > Kulbir Singh Bains.

> > > >

> > > > Punit Pandey <punitp@g...> wrote:

> > > > Rakesh ji,

> > > >

> > > > I have suspicion about the utility of face-to-face courses. I

> have

> > > > seen that even the last physical event i.e. seminar has not

> proved

> > > > much useful for group members and only a few members get

> > benefited. We

> > > > talked about various things like videotapes, discussion

> material,

> > > > articles, pictures etc. that will be available to all. But as

> we all

> > > > know it is always difficult to bring offline information to

> online.

> > > > This forum should not be used for any such activities that are

> going

> > > > to benefit only limited number of people.

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > >

> > > > Punit Pandey

> > > >

> > > > On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:29:10 -0000, rakeshsahgal

> > <rakeshsahgal>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Hi Punit

> > > > >

> > > > > Online courses for sure help in bridging the geographical

> divide

> > and

> > > > > are in my opinion the preferred option.

> > > > >

> > > > > However this direction is by no means exclusionary(correct

> > word?).

> > > > > Face to face interfaces wherever possible can greatly enhance

> the

> > > > > value of online courses. There is however the question of

> > increased

> > > > > logistic requirement.

> > > > >

> > > > > The best judges of the direction are in anycase the people

> who

> > will be

> > > > > conducting the courses.

> > > > >

> > > > > We have to hear from the few experts there are on the forum

> > about

> > > > > their views. I hope they will find fit to share their

> thoughts and

> > > > > opinions soon enough, as every one is very excited about this

> > > > > initiative.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards

> > > > >

> > > > > R S

> > > > >

> > > > > lalkitab , Punit Pandey <punitp@g...>

> > wrote:

> > > > > > Hello Friends,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Recently a discussion is started to have a course to help

> > learning

> > > > > Lal

> > > > > > Kitab. It seems a great idea to have course on Lal Kitab.

> In my

> > > > > > opinion we must think in the direction of online courses

> only.

> > > > > People

> > > > > > here are from different locations and having different

> > availability.

> > > > > > So thinking of physical course doesn't seem good idea to me.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Another point is any offline event seems not in sync with

> the

> > > > > > objective of the group. I welcome all ideas that can

> supplement

> > > > > > learning process of this forum but I am against the idea of

> > anything

> > > > > > that cannot benefit all members of the forum and is

> restricted to

> > > > > only

> > > > > > few members.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Punit Pandey

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > ________________________________

> > > >

> > > > vote. - Register online to vote today!

> > > >

October 13, 2004

Punit

You made the charge of a few benefitting from the seminar in a public

fora. Name them and substantiate your charge.

The Lal Kitabists of repute associated with the seminar were:-

1. Rajeev Khattar

2. Vipin Shukla

3. Umesh Sharma

4. Yograj Prabhakar

5. Laxmi Vashsisht

Which of these gentlemen derived a benefit and how? Lets not make

unsubstantiated allegations.

In any case your forum and you are ofcourse the best judge of the

direction you want to give it. I am through with this discussion.

Regards

R S

lalkitab , Punit Pandey <punitp@g...> wrote:

> Kulbir ji/ Rakesh ji,

>

> Beyond ego, vested interests & commercial interests, my questions

> remained unanswered. I had raised few questions in my last mail and

I

> believe that those must be answered. For example what happened to

the

> claim that the group will be informed with all activities. It is

> nearly one month after seminar but what information has made

available

> here? It happened before and after the seminar. There are many

things

> that even I was not knowing and people were thinking that I am

behind

> all those activities. I have already discussed it with Prabhakar ji

> and Umesh ji and informed them about my disappointment. I am not

able

> to understand whose vested interests are there and what is the

reason

> behind it. If someone has commercial objectives, why don't put on

> board and discuss?

>

> Regards,

>

> Punit Pandey

>

> On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:13:51 -0000, rakeshsahgal <rakeshsahgal>

wrote:

> >

> > Kulbir

> >

> > We must not be ungrateful and do anything that harms the

commerical

> > interests of our friend Punit.

> >

> > This group has come into existence because of him and his

efforts. The

> > group members got to know each other because of his efforts in

> > creating and promoting the group. I for one became familiar with

Lal

> > Kitab because of this group, so I atleast am indebted to Punit. If

> > this course or any such exercises are detrimental to the

interests of

> > our friend and host, it is only fair that such exercises be

conducted

> > elsewhere.

> >

> > This is just my opinion and I hope things will not come to such a

> > pass.

> >

> > Regards

> >

> > R S

> >

> > lalkitab , " Kulbir Singh Bains "

> >

> > <ceetabains> wrote:

> > >

> > > punit ji,

> > > we didn't know that u also are working on a magazine on

lalkitab.

> > But

> > > now as we do we drop this idea.rest assured there will be no

clash

> > of

> > > interests. regarding the course all members of the faculty will

> > most

> > > probably from this group only;

> > > yorgaj prabhakar, umesh sharma, rajiv k khattar, vipin shukla,

> > sheikh

> > > hameed pervez, rakesh sahgal, Dr. gopal krishan sharma have so

far

> > > offered their services there may be others also but these names

are

> > in

> > > my knowledge.

> > > as you know almost all the members; experts or novices are

> > interested

> > > in a formal course. if u have any idea in ur mind about this

also

> > kindly

> > > let the group know about it.

> > > kulbir singh bains

> > >

> > > lalkitab , Punit Pandey <punitp@g...>

> > wrote:

> > > > Kulbir ji,

> > > >

> > > > Seminar was disappointment for me. We have invested too much

time

> > > and

> > > > energy on seminar. At the end, the group received nothing in

> > return.

> > > > So this time I am going to pay attention to every group

the

> > forum.

> > > > Right now it is not a forum-supported activity like seminar so

> > forum

> > > > should not be used for any promotional purpose till the time

it

> > gets

> > > > supported.

> > > >

> > > > Please clarify that who all are behind the idea of this

course and

> > > > what is the benefit of the forum. Only after answering these

> > > > questions, we should think about using the forum any further.

> > > >

> > > > We are also working on one magazine on Lal Kitab and it can

> > result in

> > > > clash of interest in future. I want to avoid it as much as

> > possible.

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > >

> > > > Punit Pandey

> > > >

> > > > On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 22:46:01 -0700 (PDT), ceeta bains

> > > > <ceetabains> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Punit ji, your concerns are not unfounded. But on line

course

> > also

> > > has some

> > > > > limitations. I am sending the proposals agreed upon till

date.

> > rest

> > > assured

> > > > > any activity in this regard will be started with your

exclusive

> > consent.

> > > > > After all its by ur efforts that we have achieved so much.

> > > > > First of all there is a practical problem; although the

experts

> > are

> > > > > presently saying that they are ready to undertake the

teaching

> > on

> > > > > humanitarian grounds only but its my observation that if it

> > doesn't

> > > even

> > > > > compensates there expenses alone, the enthusiasm will

whither

> > > away in no

> > > > > time. On the other hand if the cost/fee is such that it

stinks

> > of profit

> > > > > making the students will not take it as seriously or

sacredly

> > as we

> > > suppose

> > > > > them to take it and the very puose will be lost.

> > > > > Secondly the experts are also highly sought after and the

> > people

> > > and some

> > > > > institutions are also after them to start teaching this

system.

> > > > > In the forum or on the net we can have at the most 20-30

> > students,

> > > but

> > > > > outside the net we have already received offer from 200

> > students

> > > apart from

> > > > > the instituttions. Wider number of students makes the cost

on

> > > indiuidual

> > > > > student virtually negligble. This way the teacher is

> > compensated

> > > without any

> > > > > burden on the students. It's correct that the members of

this

> > forum

> > > are

> > > > > affulent and can pay high fees also but why should we ignore

> > those

> > > who have

> > > > > the interest but cannot afford.

> > > > > As a way out the proposal is a correspondence course with

> > > minimum cost. The

> > > > > notes will be send to the students by post on monthly or

> > fortnightly

> > > baiss

> > > > > they can send back their querries and so on interactive

session

> > will

> > > begin.

> > > > > The course material will include books free. A magazine will

> > also be

> > > started

> > > > > soon on quarterly basis having articles of high academic

value

> > and

> > > research.

> > > > > The stress on this correspondence course will be on

practical

> > > problems that

> > > > > too on kundalis of the students alone.

> > > > > The forum members will have the added advantage of being in

> > > touch with the

> > > > > teachers on regular baisis. Otherwise the teachers will meet

> > the

> > > students in

> > > > > different cities on rotational basis. There is no need for

> > students to

> > > come

> > > > > to delhi or any other city. Any central city may be selected

> > which

> > > surrounds

> > > > > small towns etc. and the teachers will meet them there as

per

> > there

> > > > > convenience.

> > > > > The essential part is to get this book to maximum students

in

> > such a

> > > way

> > > > > that the students are offered teaching at minimum cost but

not

> > at

> > > the cost

> > > > > of the teachers. They have to be compensated in order to

keep

> > > there

> > > > > enthusiasm alive.

> > > > > these are mere proposals any final decision will be taken

after

> > the

> > > forum's

> > > > > go ahead. Kindly send in your suggestion and doubts if any.

> > > > >

> > > > > Kulbir Singh Bains.

> > > > >

> > > > > Punit Pandey <punitp@g...> wrote:

> > > > > Rakesh ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > I have suspicion about the utility of face-to-face courses.

I

> > have

> > > > > seen that even the last physical event i.e. seminar has not

> > proved

> > > > > much useful for group members and only a few members get

> > > benefited. We

> > > > > talked about various things like videotapes, discussion

> > material,

> > > > > articles, pictures etc. that will be available to all. But

as

> > we all

> > > > > know it is always difficult to bring offline information to

> > online.

> > > > > This forum should not be used for any such activities that

are

> > going

> > > > > to benefit only limited number of people.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > >

> > > > > Punit Pandey

> > > > >

> > > > > On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:29:10 -0000, rakeshsahgal

> > > <rakeshsahgal>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hi Punit

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Online courses for sure help in bridging the geographical

> > divide

> > > and

> > > > > > are in my opinion the preferred option.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > However this direction is by no means exclusionary(correct

> > > word?).

> > > > > > Face to face interfaces wherever possible can greatly

enhance

> > the

> > > > > > value of online courses. There is however the question of

> > > increased

> > > > > > logistic requirement.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The best judges of the direction are in anycase the people

> > who

> > > will be

> > > > > > conducting the courses.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > We have to hear from the few experts there are on the

forum

> > > about

> > > > > > their views. I hope they will find fit to share their

> > thoughts and

> > > > > > opinions soon enough, as every one is very excited about

this

> > > > > > initiative.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards

> > > > > >

> > > > > > R S

> > > > > >

> > > > > > lalkitab , Punit Pandey

<punitp@g...>

> > > wrote:

> > > > > > > Hello Friends,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Recently a discussion is started to have a course to

help

> > > learning

> > > > > > Lal

> > > > > > > Kitab. It seems a great idea to have course on Lal

Kitab.

> > In my

> > > > > > > opinion we must think in the direction of online courses

> > only.

> > > > > > People

> > > > > > > here are from different locations and having different

> > > availability.

> > > > > > > So thinking of physical course doesn't seem good idea

to me.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Another point is any offline event seems not in sync

with

> > the

> > > > > > > objective of the group. I welcome all ideas that can

> > supplement

> > > > > > > learning process of this forum but I am against the

idea of

> > > anything

> > > > > > > that cannot benefit all members of the forum and is

> > restricted to

> > > > > > only

> > > > > > > few members.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Punit Pandey

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ________________________________

> > > > >

> > > > > vote. - Register online to vote today!

> > > > >

October 13, 2004

punit, if u have something on ur mind come out clearly i couldn't understand what u mean by the activities that people thought had ur backing and they were so obnoxious that they harmed ur reputation. can u list a few of them.regarding seminar material only prabhakar and umesh are answerable and let them come out with it. as far as i know they recorded the programme and made cds for the forum members but i don't know what happened after that. the only other development after the seminar was this course issue that too came up from this forum only with a mail from shri. ganpat and others seconding it and the group is being kept abreast by all the developments and thier views are being requested. can't understand where u got the idea of commercial objectives. if u have something on ur mind open up let's sort it out. u said u want to bring out a magazine by yourself, we instantly backed out. if u have some proposal for a course all by urself or by some other members

we withdraw from that also. all we want is a systemised course not totally free. some sort of renumeration for the teachers that's all. now this is not called commercial objectives. however if this also means commercial objectives for u please do something that the teachers of this calibre begin teaching free right from the beginning till end which includes all the 5 lalkitabs detailed knowledge of analysis and remedies plus research conducted by them which makes lal kitab applicable to today's life. i will conclude by what rakesh said months ago DON'T JUST GIVE A FISH TO A HUNGRY MAN TEACH HIM HOW TO CATCH FISH.

kulbir singh bains

rakeshsahgal <rakeshsahgal wrote:

PunitYou made the charge of a few benefitting from the seminar in a publicfora. Name them and substantiate your charge. The Lal Kitabists of repute associated with the seminar were:-1. Rajeev Khattar2. Vipin Shukla3. Umesh Sharma4. Yograj Prabhakar5. Laxmi VashsishtWhich of these gentlemen derived a benefit and how? Lets not makeunsubstantiated allegations. In any case your forum and you are ofcourse the best judge of thedirection you want to give it. I am through with this discussion.RegardsR Slalkitab , Punit Pandey <punitp@g...> wrote:> Kulbir ji/ Rakesh ji,> > Beyond ego, vested interests & commercial interests, my questions> remained unanswered. I had raised few questions in my last mail andI>

believe that those must be answered. For example what happened tothe> claim that the group will be informed with all activities. It is> nearly one month after seminar but what information has madeavailable> here? It happened before and after the seminar. There are manythings> that even I was not knowing and people were thinking that I ambehind> all those activities. I have already discussed it with Prabhakar ji> and Umesh ji and informed them about my disappointment. I am notable> to understand whose vested interests are there and what is thereason> behind it. If someone has commercial objectives, why don't put on> board and discuss?> > Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:13:51 -0000, rakeshsahgal <rakeshsahgal>wrote:> > > > > > Kulbir> > > > We must not be ungrateful and do

anything that harms thecommerical> > interests of our friend Punit.> > > > This group has come into existence because of him and hisefforts. The> > group members got to know each other because of his efforts in> > creating and promoting the group. I for one became familiar withLal> > Kitab because of this group, so I atleast am indebted to Punit. If> > this course or any such exercises are detrimental to theinterests of> > our friend and host, it is only fair that such exercises beconducted> > elsewhere.> > > > This is just my opinion and I hope things will not come to such a> > pass.> > > > Regards> > > > R S> > > > lalkitab , "Kulbir Singh Bains"> > > > > > <ceetabains> wrote:> > >> > > punit

ji,> > > we didn't know that u also are working on a magazine onlalkitab.> > But> > > now as we do we drop this idea.rest assured there will be noclash> > of> > > interests. regarding the course all members of the faculty will> > most> > > probably from this group only;> > > yorgaj prabhakar, umesh sharma, rajiv k khattar, vipin shukla,> > sheikh> > > hameed pervez, rakesh sahgal, Dr. gopal krishan sharma have sofar> > > offered their services there may be others also but these namesare> > in> > > my knowledge.> > > as you know almost all the members; experts or novices are> > interested> > > in a formal course. if u have any idea in ur mind about thisalso> > kindly> > > let the group know about it.> > > kulbir singh bains> >

>> > >> > > lalkitab , Punit Pandey <punitp@g...>> > wrote:> > > > Kulbir ji,> > > >> > > > Seminar was disappointment for me. We have invested too muchtime> > > and> > > > energy on seminar. At the end, the group received nothing in> > return.> > > > So this time I am going to pay attention to every grouprelated> > > > activity very closely and only then I'll allow the usage ofthe> > forum.> > > > Right now it is not a forum-supported activity like seminar so> > forum> > > > should not be used for any promotional purpose till the timeit> > gets> > > > supported.> > > >> > > > Please clarify that who all are behind the idea of thiscourse and>

> > > what is the benefit of the forum. Only after answering these> > > > questions, we should think about using the forum any further.> > > >> > > > We are also working on one magazine on Lal Kitab and it can> > result in> > > > clash of interest in future. I want to avoid it as much as> > possible.> > > >> > > > Regards,> > > >> > > > Punit Pandey> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 22:46:01 -0700 (PDT), ceeta bains> > > > <ceetabains> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Punit ji, your concerns are not unfounded. But on linecourse> > also> > > has some> > > > > limitations. I am sending the proposals agreed upon tilldate.> >

rest> > > assured> > > > > any activity in this regard will be started with yourexclusive> > consent.> > > > > After all its by ur efforts that we have achieved so much.> > > > > First of all there is a practical problem; although theexperts> > are> > > > > presently saying that they are ready to undertake theteaching> > on> > > > > humanitarian grounds only but its my observation that if it> > doesn't> > > even> > > > > compensates there expenses alone, the enthusiasm willwhither> > > away in no> > > > > time. On the other hand if the cost/fee is such that itstinks> > of profit> > > > > making the students will not take it as seriously orsacredly> > as we> > > suppose> > > >

> them to take it and the very puose will be lost.> > > > > Secondly the experts are also highly sought after and the> > people> > > and some> > > > > institutions are also after them to start teaching thissystem.> > > > > In the forum or on the net we can have at the most 20-30> > students,> > > but> > > > > outside the net we have already received offer from 200> > students> > > apart from> > > > > the instituttions. Wider number of students makes the coston> > > indiuidual> > > > > student virtually negligble. This way the teacher is> > compensated> > > without any> > > > > burden on the students. It's correct that the members ofthis> > forum> > > are> > > > > affulent and can pay

high fees also but why should we ignore> > those> > > who have> > > > > the interest but cannot afford.> > > > > As a way out the proposal is a correspondence course with> > > minimum cost. The> > > > > notes will be send to the students by post on monthly or> > fortnightly> > > baiss> > > > > they can send back their querries and so on interactivesession> > will> > > begin.> > > > > The course material will include books free. A magazine will> > also be> > > started> > > > > soon on quarterly basis having articles of high academicvalue> > and> > > research.> > > > > The stress on this correspondence course will be onpractical> > > problems that> > > > > too on kundalis of the

students alone.> > > > > The forum members will have the added advantage of being in> > > touch with the> > > > > teachers on regular baisis. Otherwise the teachers will meet> > the> > > students in> > > > > different cities on rotational basis. There is no need for> > students to> > > come> > > > > to delhi or any other city. Any central city may be selected> > which> > > surrounds> > > > > small towns etc. and the teachers will meet them there asper> > there> > > > > convenience.> > > > > The essential part is to get this book to maximum studentsin> > such a> > > way> > > > > that the students are offered teaching at minimum cost butnot> > at> > > the cost> >

> > > of the teachers. They have to be compensated in order tokeep> > > there> > > > > enthusiasm alive.> > > > > these are mere proposals any final decision will be takenafter> > the> > > forum's> > > > > go ahead. Kindly send in your suggestion and doubts if any.> > > > >> > > > > Kulbir Singh Bains.> > > > >> > > > > Punit Pandey <punitp@g...> wrote:> > > > > Rakesh ji,> > > > >> > > > > I have suspicion about the utility of face-to-face courses.I> > have> > > > > seen that even the last physical event i.e. seminar has not> > proved> > > > > much useful for group members and only a few members get> > > benefited. We> > > > > talked

about various things like videotapes, discussion> > material,> > > > > articles, pictures etc. that will be available to all. Butas> > we all> > > > > know it is always difficult to bring offline information to> > online.> > > > > This forum should not be used for any such activities thatare> > going> > > > > to benefit only limited number of people.> > > > >> > > > > Regards,> > > > >> > > > > Punit Pandey> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:29:10 -0000, rakeshsahgal> > > <rakeshsahgal>> > > > > wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Hi Punit> > > > > >> > > > > >

Online courses for sure help in bridging the geographical> > divide> > > and> > > > > > are in my opinion the preferred option.> > > > > >> > > > > > However this direction is by no means exclusionary(correct> > > word?).> > > > > > Face to face interfaces wherever possible can greatlyenhance> > the> > > > > > value of online courses. There is however the question of> > > increased> > > > > > logistic requirement.> > > > > >> > > > > > The best judges of the direction are in anycase the people> > who> > > will be> > > > > > conducting the courses.> > > > > >> > > > > > We have to hear from the few experts there are on theforum> > >

about> > > > > > their views. I hope they will find fit to share their> > thoughts and> > > > > > opinions soon enough, as every one is very excited aboutthis> > > > > > initiative.> > > > > >> > > > > > Regards> > > > > >> > > > > > R S> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > lalkitab , Punit Pandey<punitp@g...>> > > wrote:> > > > > > > Hello Friends,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Recently a discussion is started to have a course tohelp> > > learning> > > > > > Lal> > > > > > > Kitab. It seems a great idea to have course on LalKitab.> > In my> > > >

> > > opinion we must think in the direction of online courses> > only.> > > > > > People> > > > > > > here are from different locations and having different> > > availability.> > > > > > > So thinking of physical course doesn't seem good ideato me.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Another point is any offline event seems not in syncwith> > the> > > > > > > objective of the group. I welcome all ideas that can> > supplement> > > > > > > learning process of this forum but I am against theidea of> > > anything> > > > > > > that cannot benefit all members of the forum and is> > restricted to> > > > > > only> > > > > > > few members.> > > > > >

>> > > > > > > Regards,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > ________________________________> > > > > > > > > > vote. - Register online to vote today!> > > > >> > > > >

October 13, 2004