The direction this forum has taken....

[Guest guest]

resp sh bhatia ji;

may be the words may look harsh but-

1]majority of members on list and learners of lalkitab around the

globe donot have the original versions; and looks like the scenario

is likely to remain so.

 

2]in above scenario;what to do?help books thus become inevitable.

ofcourse you mentioned that many are not worth but the experts on

list can certainly name a few which take one to right direction.

even though in hindu astrology many classics are available but even

then help books come out regularly and certainly many help the learner

to solve the confusing positions.similar may be the position in case

of lalkitab also.

in absence of original;authentic in market;there has to be way out. i

am involved with astrology for more than two decades and work as

professional astrologer but i have yet to see the original print till

now.so it can be easily imagined that those new to field must be

facing frustations and thus often fall victim to photocopies which

are not easily readable and who knows may be incomplete or just

jumbled up pages.in such a case if somebody who has a name in

astrology comes out with a help book ;deserves a look.

3]you may have chosen to sit on fence but if this art of astrology ie

lalkitab has to survive; not one but many will have to strive hard

and spare time;effort and money so that the next generation can have

have chance to choose it or leave it.

4]those on list who are capable of and provide help by discussing

cases and prescribing remedies are doing laudable service in nobilty.

as it is simply zeal and without self serving motives.mr upadhayay ji

certainly is doing a lot and almost always replies back to each case.

however i shall like to request him to kindly spare some time more if

possible; in discussing the principles and practice of lalkitab for

the benefit of learners.

5]sh lalkitabee ji;may also like to help more in these matters pl.

 

6]providing help to individuals is certainly good work but trying

to help propagate and decode the treatise shall help evolve a group

which can then caryy on the legacies.

 

7]many dont know even the basics and lack of LK original and guidance

from experts is not helping the case either.

 

8]in such a case how long the group shall survive ;is the pertinent

question as learners may get disillusioned if not now but may be

after some time.

 

9]the group has been in existance for appx two yeras but in file

section there is only one excell workbook and one small zip file

loaded a few days back?

i hope those in capacity to lead should come to front and help the

members of the groups to gather the insights and thus help act as

nucleus .

the points have been raised in positive frame of mind and

not even an iota of malice is intended towards any member pl.

thanks.

with regards

gopal sharma.

 

 

 

 

 

> This is in continuation with the discussion that Puneet Jee, Gopal

Jee and LalKitabee Jee have started. Here is my two cents .....

>

> In fact, apart from severe lack of time, one of the main reasons

I've limited my participation in this forum is that it has been

reduced to merely folks coming in with their particulars of birth,

get some remedial measures and " fly away. " My intent is not at all to

criticize anyone but wholesale prescription of measures without

verification (and I have been making noise about that right from the

start) is not conducive to anyone learning LalKitab. Mr. Lalkitabee's

approach in analyzing a horoscope has brought in a welcome change.

But look at that - he is being accused of " experimenting " etc.

>

> Pt SomDutt Jee never touches a horoscope without verifying it

first (and for that matter, Pt Roop Chand Jee did exactly the same.)

According to them, absolutely NO remedial measures should EVER be

prescribed without verification of the horoscope and to do so has the

potential of more harm than good. My professor of English, Prof Onkar

Nath Jee who introduced me to LalKitab, operated the same way. You

never know, the ascendant could be placed wrong; the birth time may

have been reported wrong or, the astrologer may have made a mistake

while inputting the data into the computer - I have done this many

times (and " to err is human " I will keep doing so, unintetionally.)

LalKitab farmaans are detailed enough to provide tons of verifiable

information - look at Mr Lalkitabee's analysis and though I haven't

charted the horoscope being analyzed, I already know where most of

the planets are. He is following the book by the line. That is why I

recommend that one should read only the original

> Lal Kitab. I have criticized perhaps too harshly, the " helpbooks "

on LalKitab. Those may be read but most of those are not even worth

the paper they are printed on.

>

> I tried providing analysis during the earlier days of the forum but

got sidetracked and then inundated with tons of personal requests and

finally I decided to sit on the fence and watch.

>

> Again, the puspose of this note is not to criticize those who are

helping others through their knowledge - they are at least doing

something better than someone like me who is just sitting on the

fence. But I think the main purpose for which I joined this forum was

to discuss case studies and enhance my learning of LalKitab and that,

really hasn't happened.

>

> Maybe things will improve.

>

> Respectfully,

> Rajinder Bhatia

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Dear Gopal Sharma Jee,

I can't agree more with you on every single point that you've raised in your letter. No, your words are not at all "harsh" and I wholeheartedly support your views and thank you for taking the time to write.

 

A big hinderance that I've always felt is the absence of original LalKitabs for interested readers (not for me personally, I have them all.) The English version by Sagar Publications isn't too bad provided you are willing to overlook the "matric fail" English that they have used. There are errors at various vital places but most of those are not very serious errors. Theirs seems like an honest attempt. Arun publications (Chandigarh) has transliterated the books and sold these by the tons. But there are innumerable ommissions and mistakes caused both by utter carelesness and by design (removed the palmistry part from all the editions except the 1952 edition.) In the subsequent editions, no attempt has been made to correct the errors despite various suggestions. Pt Ashant has similary, hidden much more than he has given and most of the rationale given by him for the remedial measures etc. is simply bunk and nonsensical (view

of many serious LalKitab scholars.) His agenda is totally different. I'd rather not go into that here. However, in the absence of the original stuff, he is not too bad of a bet. Most of the other LalKitab work is absolutely useless. I am at a loss to tell you as to how you can get the original version. Ideally, I would like a LalKitab with Urdu originals on one side of the page and the Hindi transliteration on the facing side so that the readers may have the benefit of both.

 

I am not at all critical of Dr Upadhayay. I salute him for his efficiency and the spirit of selfless service. I wish though, that he discussed the LalKitab basics of each of the remedies that he prescribes. Verification of the correctness of the horoscope wouldn't hurt either. I am not at all in favor of giving/making predictions - those do nothing for anyone. The purpose should be (my personal view only) to diagnose the problem and prescribe the remedy. "kudrat ke bhed ko waqt se pahle khol dena" is not our job (again, my personal view.)

 

Much hasn't been done in this group to try to propogate the knowledge and at times, the discussions have gone way beyond everyone's comprehension (while talking about the aspects and their effects, for example, recently.) I think none of us knows enough to say authoritatively whether our interpretation of the rules is correct or not.

 

I'd love to be involved in any discussions/case studies/post mortems etc. But I can't analyze horoscopes on daily basis (as it is, I am always backed up with these and I feel guilty for ignoring many promises that I have made.) I have other obligations/interests that I pursue. But I'll try to be involved on as-time-permits basis.

Thanks again for writing a frank and, I think, a fair assessment.

 

Respectfully,

Rajinder Bhatia

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[Guest guest]

Bhatia ji,

I think you have been really blessed that you came

across some real gems like Prof Onkar Nath ji, Pt. Roop Chand Joshi

ji and now Pt. Som dutt Joshi ji. Any doubts about Lalkitab that you

ever had must have been cleared by them. You never had to join a

forum in the old days to learn Lalkitab. Your querries were answered

by the Masters themselves. Even now I guess you are in direct

contact with Joshi family for any clarifications if needed.

For us who are trying to learn Lalkitab it is really frustrating to

come to this forum and ask for directions about where to start

learning astrology and Lalkitab, and guess what, only Upadhyay ji

and some times Punit ji are the only person who like to respond to

our(you can call them stupid questions) curious questions.

Bhatia ji you are one of the very few people who are genuinly

knowledgable about the subject on this forum and your little

involvement is very much required on this forum.

Just by sitting on the fence won't help us in any way, we know we

are all busy, but then you don't have to spend all day for a simple

question and write two pages long details about it.

Just few lines from you will be enough.

I hope I am not harsh, atleast thats not what I intended to be.

All I want is learn astrology and then Lalkitab and if possible

learn it from the discussions and expreince of the seniors.

 

Regards

Gullu

 

 

lalkitab , Rajinder Bhatia

<rajinderbhatia2002> wrote:

> Friends,

> This is in continuation with the discussion that Puneet Jee, Gopal

Jee and LalKitabee Jee have started. Here is my two cents .....

>

> In fact, apart from severe lack of time, one of the main reasons

I've limited my participation in this forum is that it has been

reduced to merely folks coming in with their particulars of birth,

get some remedial measures and " fly away. " My intent is not at all

to criticize anyone but wholesale prescription of measures without

verification (and I have been making noise about that right from the

start) is not conducive to anyone learning LalKitab. Mr.

Lalkitabee's approach in analyzing a horoscope has brought in a

welcome change. But look at that - he is being accused

of " experimenting " etc.

>

> Pt SomDutt Jee never touches a horoscope without verifying it

first (and for that matter, Pt Roop Chand Jee did exactly the

same.) According to them, absolutely NO remedial measures should

EVER be prescribed without verification of the horoscope and to do

so has the potential of more harm than good. My professor of

English, Prof Onkar Nath Jee who introduced me to LalKitab, operated

the same way. You never know, the ascendant could be placed wrong;

the birth time may have been reported wrong or, the astrologer may

have made a mistake while inputting the data into the computer - I

have done this many times (and " to err is human " I will keep doing

so, unintetionally.) LalKitab farmaans are detailed enough to

provide tons of verifiable information - look at Mr Lalkitabee's

analysis and though I haven't charted the horoscope being analyzed,

I already know where most of the planets are. He is following the

book by the line. That is why I recommend that one should read only

the original

> Lal Kitab. I have criticized perhaps too harshly,

the " helpbooks " on LalKitab. Those may be read but most of those are

not even worth the paper they are printed on.

>

> I tried providing analysis during the earlier days of the forum

but got sidetracked and then inundated with tons of personal

requests and finally I decided to sit on the fence and watch.

>

> Again, the puspose of this note is not to criticize those who are

helping others through their knowledge - they are at least doing

something better than someone like me who is just sitting on the

fence. But I think the main purpose for which I joined this forum

was to discuss case studies and enhance my learning of LalKitab and

that, really hasn't happened.

>

> Maybe things will improve.

>

> Respectfully,

> Rajinder Bhatia

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Messenger

[Guest guest]

"Badshah" salaamat, Gullu Jee - I wish I had the privilege of learning from Pt Roop Chand jee - I used to observe him with a keen eye but my visits to him were limited. By the time I started taking LalKitab seriously, I left India and so I could not take full advantage of Prof Onkar Nath Jee's scholarship. Pt Som Dutt Jee has been very kind with his time especially for me, but I wish I could go to Canada and watch him/learn from him - his doors have always been open for me but I haven't availed of the opportunity that much. Perhaps the most major problem with LalKitab learners is that it requires repeated reading and re-reading from start to finish before the subject can be understood. We all are used to instant gratification and LalKitab generally does not provide much of that. And, that is why there is a lack of understanding. Of course, lack of genuine material on LalKitab is a bigger hurdle.I'll try to stay involved on

as-time-permits basis. I have a huge project of a lifetime coming up which is going to sap all (or most of) my time this year (2004.)Thanks for your note.Rajinder BhatiaGullu Badshaw <acura_2004 wrote:

Bhatia ji, I think you have been really blessed that you came across some real gems like Prof Onkar Nath ji, Pt. Roop Chand Joshi ji and now Pt. Som dutt Joshi ji. Any doubts about Lalkitab that you ever had must have been cleared by them. You never had to join a forum in the old days to learn Lalkitab. Your querries were answered by the Masters themselves. ..........

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[Guest guest]

Dear Bhatiaji,

 

I am a started learning astrology and have great

interest in learning Lal Kitab. Can u tell me somthing

persons name u have mentioned?

Who are they and how I can be in contact with them?

1.Prof Onkar Nath ji

2.Pt.Roop Chand Joshi ji

3.Pt. Som dutt Joshi ji

 

max

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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