Response...to the Critic

[Guest guest]

Friends,

This is in response to our new friend who wants to hide behind the

mask of anonymity. I am reproducing portions of her Email and my

response is enclosed in " <> " .

 

on surfing the site original lalkitab.com;a little disappointment

could not be suppressed as at present there is nothing original

except showering loads of praises in respect the author and the

family . it looks more of a site trying to conceal the knowledge

rather than coming out lock stock and barrel for clearing the doubts

about the principles and logic of the treatise....

 

<This is what I found out about the originallalkitab website after

talking to Mr. Virender Joshi:

The site is still under development. It undergoes tests as new

modules are developed. Virender has been away on travel (and will

continue to do so for the next few months) due to his job and is

unable to access the Web on a regular basis. Of course, there will be

a Membership fees for those who wish to consult Pandit Som Dutt ji.

The program module providing membership details has not yet been

attached yet. No doubt, it looks bad that you can click on Membership

and no details are available. The membership part is being disabled

with immediate effect. >

 

<Here is MY (personal) take on it and response to the

anonymous " Critic. " I fully agree with Mr. Dheendsa that hiding one's

identity casts doubts on such people's motives.

 

Numerous LalKitab well-wishers had been pressing for a site on LK and

finally it is getting ready. There are plans to have regular write-

ups including a Discussion Forum, among other things (The Critic very

conveniently ignored to mention the Discussion Forum which is live .)

Those of us who knew Pt Roop Chand ji are dismayed at the

various " Daivagyas " and " Doctors of Lal Kitab " who knowingly have

been unabashedly plagiarizing Lal Kitab and spreading unfounded

rumors about the its author (. ... " unknown " , " Arabic " , " Ravana " , " six

hundred years old book " , " having originated in Himachal Pradesh "

etc.) I wish you had said something about those folks - their name is

greed and immorality personified. Have you not seen the dual " rates "

advertised on various astrological sites? I know of LalKitabists in

Delhi charging Rs. 2,500.00 PER visit per horoscope; a LalKitabist in

New York is charging US $150 for a half-hour session. You were

extremely unkind in implying, without knowing them, that the Joshis

became rich through this. ( " living in posh Panchkula and Toronto " ) Pt

Roop Chand ji spent sixty years of his life doing absolutely free

service - Can you imagine people lining up in front of your house at

5:30 AM to Sunset and this routine continues seven days a week? And,

the man NEVER charged nor accepted anything. Can you imagine the

tremendous pressure and stress it puts on one's family life? How did

you assume that in Toronto/Panchkula they are living in a lap of

luxury? For decades, Pt Som Dutt ji did NOT charge anything for his

services and even now, he refuses to charge anything from the people

he knows even remotely. Again, for those of us who know the family,

your remarks are very disturbing. Criticize the Lal Kitab system;

burn it, throw it in trash, call it " witchcraft " unscientific,

agonistic, pro-Muslim (that's what you are repeatedly trying to

imply), anti-Dalit, anti-Hindu and worse. I have no problem with

that. That is your perspective and prerogative BUT personal attack

and insinuations should have no place in a forum like this or

anywhere else where civil people exchange ideas.

 

And, how did you assume that the book " REHNUMA-E- LALKITAB is going

to be another " pointer " book. It hasn't even been finished yet and

you wasted no time in giving a guilty verdict. Pt Som Dutt ji is not

a trained writer but he is trying and trying very hard. He writes and

reviews and rewrites and reviews. From time to time, he bounces ideas

off some of us just to see if his presentation is proper. Mind you,

he is under NO obligation to write this book but he wants to document

his understanding and further the cause. You can't even imagine the

topics he is going to discuss. And your constant bashing that

in " over fifty years " he hasn't " completed " the book is very

unreasonable. What do you know about his personal trials and

tribulations? I wonder how many of you know that the Khalistani

terrorists were constantly threatening him to stop the practice of

Lal Kitab (in their view, astrology was against their tenets.)

Numerous attempts were made to harm him; he and his older son were

both shot at. They are lucky to be alive. Panditji still has bullet

fragments in his shoulder (every time he travels by air, the metal

detector beeps.) Imagine the trauma the family had to undergo. He had

taken the previously published LalKitabs to a publisher of renown in

Jullunder who reneged on his original promise after months of keeping

the manuscripts with him. Disappointed, Pt Som Dutt ji shelved the

idea. After that, he migrated to Canada to be with his son. There

were new challenges in the new environment. It is very easy to

criticize and condemn and be insensitive to others' problems. >

 

LOTS and LOTS MORE ABOUT THE PRINCIPLES IS AVAILABLE ON DOZENS OF

OTHER SITES WHICH do not boast about being so ORIGINAL..

 

<All of us have seen those sites. By all means, one should utilize

the knowledge that is already freely available. Good luck. I have

only one question. Just name one site that is having the kind of

discussions that we have already had on the present forum in the last

few weeks. Kindly enlighten us all. >

 

it has been emphasised on the list on more than one occassion that if

remedies prescribed are wrong ie. a misjudgement on part of

astrologer they may backfire , it is just like rubbing salt to

wound ;why should a remedy backfire ? is it some witchcraft going hay

wire ?

 

<Remedies should not to be done haphazardly and that is MY PERSONAL

belief, NOT something that LK professes. Be logical here, my friend.

I have, in every discussion, said that analysis/interpretation as

presented in this forum is based on my personal experience (and lack

thereof.) Please don't tell me that if you wear " neelam " or a diamond

unnecessarily or of wrong specifications, it will not cause ill

effects. A vast majority of LK practitioners see a particular planet

in a particular house and blindly suggest a whole host of upayas

without caring whether these are needed or not. What if other factors

make it exalted? That is what analysis is all about. It specifically

says in LK that you should not give away the things belonging to

exalted planets and should not take/accept things belonging to

debilitated planets. In that case, it'd be very logical not to

unnecessarily bother doing a " daan " for a planet. I don't see any

witchcraft here; I feel that one has to be rational and judicious. If

others see something wrong with this, please, repeat please let me

know and correct me. >

 

lets say if other systems of astrology ergo parashari are indicating

a gravely troubled times ahead in a horoscope ;will lal kitab

principles also indicate the same ?AS TRANSITS ARE NOT A PART OF

LALKITAB PRACTISE THAN WHAT IS THE BASIS OF PREDICTION? ---is it

varshphala.

in indian astrology there are theories of affliction in natal charts

and weakness of planets as any student of astrology can understand

and for both different types of remedy that is propitiation of

malefics and strengthening for weak planets by way of astrological

gems. yantra etc are prescribed. BUT in alal kitab there are no

different remedy principles are there.

 

<Again, you have either not read the Lal Kitab or have just read it

but not tried to understand it. But you have wasted no time in

passing a guilty verdict. Please read it. It says in there that the

life-time readings are based on the Janma Kundali and annual " halat "

are to be judged through Varshphal. Like it or not, the very basic

principle of Lal Kitab is based just on Janma Kundali and a competent

LalKitabist works just with that. That is the beauty and uniqueness

of it. Over the years, I (and most of my LalKitabist friends) have

never cared about transits or retrogressions or eclipses or some such

phenomenon for predictive purposes and we've had about as good a

success rate as the classical astrologers. >

 

MASNUI PLANETS[artificial planets] have been given importance but

what is the basis for making such assumptons that two planets can act

in tandem typically like a particular planet or in other words one

planet is being advocated as a combination of two different planets;

each one of two can again be bifurcated in to two again and process

may continue till one desires .

 

<I wish I had answer to the " whys " of Masnui planets. But it does not

say anywhere that you can keep bifurcating it to your heart's

content; you are trying to stretch this for the sake of argument. The

numerous examples in LK about Masnui planets go to just one level

of " bifurcation. " >

 

KINDLY GIVE THE FOLLOWING A LITTLE ATTENTION

A] lal kitab also contains urdu[farsi]words and at more than one

place keeping idols at home has been denounced ;is there some muslim

connection???

 

<This is laughable. Usage of Farsi words makes it a Muslim book? I

hope you are not serious. LK books were written from late 30's to

1952. At that time, Urdu was the most prevalent language (In Punjab

at least) and the elite ones also learnt Farsi. The Farsi words are

there for a purpose (to describe certain diseases/perversions/body

parts that would otherwise be indecent to describe in Urdu.) At two

or three places, Farsi phrases have been used for emphasise because

those were well known, oft used phrases. I hope that fifty years from

now, our grandchildren won't think that we were " Angrez " because we

used English language to write and communicate. Have you not seen the

pictures of deities for each planet? The 52 edition even had color

pictures of Brahma ji, Hanuman ji, Laxmi Ji, Shiv Ji etc. (designated

for each planet) By the way, only for people with a certain placement

of Jupiter and Mercury have been advised against keeping a temple at

their homes. The word temple is not to be taken in the Hindu sense;

it is universal for people of all denominations and faith. And, LK

does describe what it means by temple. >

 

with book;also natives with certain planetary combinations have been

advised to avoid visiting places of worship; WAS SUCH A STEP

ADVOCATED AGAINST CERTAIN CASTES AS WELL IN PAST.

 

<Again, you picked one specific case and generalized as against

certain casts. According to the LK system, people with certain

planetary combinations are advised against going inside a place of

worship as a remedial measure. How did you assume that it is directed

against the Hindus or Dalits (you implied that) Don't Sikhs, Muslims,

Buddhists, Christians, Jewish people have their place of worship

(And, there are plenty of LK followers from multiple religions.) It

applies to all of them. Again, you have mischievously tried to give

it an anti-Hindu slant.>

 

B]EVEN PROVIDING WATER FACILITY FOR PUBLIC MAY BE HARMFUL FOR NATIVE.

C] ALSO SOME NATIVES MAY GET HARMED IF THEY FUND CONSTRUCTION OF INNS

FOR PUBLIC AT ALRGE.

 

<This is all contained in a chapter called Khabardari Folks with

certain planetary configuration are advised against doing such

things. This is a kind of a " daan " which is not viewed to help the

native. The native, if in a charitable mood, can do some other kind

of charitable work but not the one proscribed. >

 

D]YOUNGER BROTHERS SHOULD NOT PROVIDE FINANCIAL HELP FOR MARRY

DAUGHTERS OF ELDER BROTHERS;WHO SHALL OWN RESPONSIBILTY OF SUCH

CHILDREN IF UNFORTUNATELY FATHER EXPIRES OR IS NOT IN VIABLE FINACIAL

CONDITION.

 

<I don't fully understand what you are exactly trying to say here.

But you are certainly implying that this is universal for all younger

brothers. It is there for someone with a specific planetary

combination caught in this unfortunate situation. Again, it is the

younger brothers' choice to follow the author saw it as his duty to

let the readers know based on his interpretation.>

 

E] WHAT A FANCY PALMISTRY IN THE BOOK HAS BEEN USED FOR MAKING OF

HOROCOPE ;THUS RAHU 'KETU MAY RESIDE IN A SINGLE HOUSE IN HOROSCOPE ;

AND A UNIVERSAL FACT THAT MERCURY AND VENUS REMAIN IN VICINTY OF

SUN;ALSO PROVED ASTRONOMICALLY CAN IN THIS TREATISE BE FAR AWAY TO

SUN. any takers please?

 

<Thanks for giving us a brief intro to astronomy. Like it or not,

rational or not, Lal Kitab has its own principles enunciated very

explicitly; that is why " lal kitab hai jyotish nirali. " Nobody knows

the rationale behind many of these things. However, for me, and for

innumerable other folks, it works and works wonderfully well. If it

didn't, we'd have long ago discarded Lal Kitab jyotish. It might

surprise you but believe me, you are not the first rational person

who is questioning this strange theory. The author spells this out

very early on and declares very clearly that this is how Lal Kitab is

different from classical astrology. After that clear a statement, the

choice is ours, to take it or leave it. You could do the same. >

 

Respectfully,

Rajinder Bhatia