Guest guest Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 Dear Iqbal ji: For some time, I also struggled with this issue being the father of 2 children one born in Canada and the other in the US. I have also had a number of discussions with Bhatiaji as well as with my father who was a frequent visitor to Pt Roop Chand Joshi and had seen him cast horoscope of foreign born using logic outlined by Bhatiaji in his very insightful article on " Lal Kitab Methodology for Births Abroad " Here is my understanding: a)Your birth at 9:45PM EDT Sep 27, 1976 in Toronto translated to 7:23AM Madras time Sep 28. The proposition here is that 2 children born at the same INSTANT one in Toronto on Sep 27 at 9:45PM and the other in Madras at 7:23AM on Sep 28 will have identical horoscopes b) You bring up the notion that this cannot be true because at that INSTANT the planetary configuration in Toronto is different than in Madras - a powerful and a logical argument c) The paradigm here is that Lal Kitab rules apply once the horoscope is transposed into an equivalent Madras time. Bhatiaji in his write-up is implying that the difference in planetary configuration (Toronto versus Madras in our example) manifests itself as a different " environment " when analysing via the LK system. The way I am interpreting this is that if your income is expected to be 10 it will be Rs 10 or 10 canadian dollars - perhaps a simplistic example. Anyway I would be interested in comments experienced practitioners may have on the subject Regards Vijay Arora lalkitab , " punjabilovebug " <punjabilovebug> wrote: > Respected Bhatia Ji, > > Thank you for posting your article on DST and foreign births. While > informative, I don't think it yet clears up some of the confusion > that many of us foreign-borns have. > > For instance, you have placed Venus+Rahu in the lagna using the > example cited (September 27, 1976 21:45 TORONTO, CAN), but using > several software programs including Parashara's and online > calculators, the planet formation comes out as follows: > > Jupiter - 1 > Saturn - 3 > Me/Ma/Su- 5 > Ve/Ra - 6 > Mo - 7 > Ke - 12 > > This is because it is Taurus ascendant. Even if we take the 1 hour > off of the 21:45pm time, then we are left with Taurus ascendant > also, which would in both cases place Jupiter in lagna. > > This issue is very important to understand, so much so that I > visited Pandit Som Dutt Ji in Toronto to get a kundli made, and > while he first made it according to the planet formation listed, > during the process he changed it to Gemini rising with Me/Ma/Sun in > lagna. > > The planets that were in formation in India's skies were not the > ones a native is born under in his foreign abode. The calculations > of the Lal Kitab are all based on the planets exactly at the time of > birth. If we say that only IST is relevant, then the items mentioned > in the Lal Kitab(houses, kinds of trees, effects on neighbors, power > outages during birth) should only be in effect in India (i.e: The > native's ancestor's/parents home). > > Do you see the paradox we are facing? One the one hand, we say that > Lal Kitab is universal in its application, but then we say that > everything has to be engineered back to IST. I have checked the > planet placements several times, and each time, the planets in the > sky in India are NOT the same ones present over North America at the > exact time of birth. > > This is not a negative post in any way, for I am indebted to you for > the time and effort you have placed in bringing this issue to light > with your article. What I am saying is that the impacts of Lal Kitab > should be applied universally based on the planets at place of birth. > > I have taken your example and the native at hand does not exhibit > any of the qualities mentioned with the planetary formation. Rather, > he still exhibits the qualities of the planets I have mentioned > above. > > Your seniority in this issue is much appreciated - do you have any > further thoughts based on my post? > > Respectfully, > Iqbal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 Respected Arora jee, The Ascendant of the two children born at the same time , same day , in Toronto and Madras will not and CAN NOT be the same. The Asc not only depends on the Longitude { time factor } but on the Latitude { rising factor } also . The difference in lagnansha { degrees of the Asc } will be anything between 8 degrees to 20 degrees depending on the sidereal time of birth. This difference might even change the sign of Ascendant. Therefore I suggest that the contemporary method of calculating Asc should be used. Most of the softwares available are quite accurate. with regards and naman to all gurujan, bhuwan lalkitab , " vkarora1949 " <vkarora1@h...> wrote: > Dear Iqbal ji: > > For some time, I also struggled with this issue being the father of > 2 children one born in Canada and the other in the US. I have also > had a number of discussions with Bhatiaji as well as with my father > who was a frequent visitor to Pt Roop Chand Joshi and had seen him > cast horoscope of foreign born using logic outlined by Bhatiaji in > his very insightful article on " Lal Kitab Methodology for Births > Abroad " Here is my understanding: > > a)Your birth at 9:45PM EDT Sep 27, 1976 in Toronto translated to > 7:23AM Madras time Sep 28. The proposition here is that 2 children > born at the same INSTANT one in Toronto on Sep 27 at 9:45PM and the > other in Madras at 7:23AM on Sep 28 will have identical horoscopes > > b) You bring up the notion that this cannot be true because at that > INSTANT the planetary configuration in Toronto is different than in > Madras - a powerful and a logical argument > > c) The paradigm here is that Lal Kitab rules apply once the > horoscope is transposed into an equivalent Madras time. Bhatiaji in > his write-up is implying that the difference in planetary > configuration (Toronto versus Madras in our example) manifests > itself as a different " environment " when analysing via the LK > system. The way I am interpreting this is that if your income is > expected to be 10 it will be Rs 10 or 10 canadian dollars - perhaps > a simplistic example. > > Anyway I would be interested in comments experienced practitioners > may have on the subject > > > Regards > Vijay Arora lalkitab , " punjabilovebug " > <punjabilovebug> wrote: > > Respected Bhatia Ji, > > > > Thank you for posting your article on DST and foreign births. > While > > informative, I don't think it yet clears up some of the confusion > > that many of us foreign-borns have. > > > > For instance, you have placed Venus+Rahu in the lagna using the > > example cited (September 27, 1976 21:45 TORONTO, CAN), but using > > several software programs including Parashara's and online > > calculators, the planet formation comes out as follows: > > > > Jupiter - 1 > > Saturn - 3 > > Me/Ma/Su- 5 > > Ve/Ra - 6 > > Mo - 7 > > Ke - 12 > > > > This is because it is Taurus ascendant. Even if we take the 1 hour > > off of the 21:45pm time, then we are left with Taurus ascendant > > also, which would in both cases place Jupiter in lagna. > > > > This issue is very important to understand, so much so that I > > visited Pandit Som Dutt Ji in Toronto to get a kundli made, and > > while he first made it according to the planet formation listed, > > during the process he changed it to Gemini rising with Me/Ma/Sun > in > > lagna. > > > > The planets that were in formation in India's skies were not the > > ones a native is born under in his foreign abode. The calculations > > of the Lal Kitab are all based on the planets exactly at the time > of > > birth. If we say that only IST is relevant, then the items > mentioned > > in the Lal Kitab(houses, kinds of trees, effects on neighbors, > power > > outages during birth) should only be in effect in India (i.e: The > > native's ancestor's/parents home). > > > > Do you see the paradox we are facing? One the one hand, we say > that > > Lal Kitab is universal in its application, but then we say that > > everything has to be engineered back to IST. I have checked the > > planet placements several times, and each time, the planets in the > > sky in India are NOT the same ones present over North America at > the > > exact time of birth. > > > > This is not a negative post in any way, for I am indebted to you > for > > the time and effort you have placed in bringing this issue to > light > > with your article. What I am saying is that the impacts of Lal > Kitab > > should be applied universally based on the planets at place of > birth. > > > > I have taken your example and the native at hand does not exhibit > > any of the qualities mentioned with the planetary formation. > Rather, > > he still exhibits the qualities of the planets I have mentioned > > above. > > > > Your seniority in this issue is much appreciated - do you have any > > further thoughts based on my post? > > > > Respectfully, > > Iqbal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 Respected Bhuvan ji: I agree completely with you that the 2 ascendants will be different. The distinction I am making is in the analysis of foreign born. If you are going to analyse using Vedic principles that the software generated horoscope is fine. However, when analysing via the Lal Kitab like varshfal, halaat etc you need to recast as if the birth was out of Madras. Right or wrong this has been my understanding. With regards Vijay lalkitab , " bhuwanvashishtha " <bhuwanvashishtha> wrote: > Respected Arora jee, > > The Ascendant of the two children born at the same time , same day , > in Toronto and Madras will not and CAN NOT be the same. The Asc not > only depends on the Longitude { time factor } but on the Latitude { > rising factor } also . The difference in lagnansha { degrees of the > Asc } will be anything between 8 degrees to 20 degrees depending on > the sidereal time of birth. This difference might even change the > sign of Ascendant. Therefore I suggest that the contemporary method > of calculating Asc should be used. Most of the softwares available > are quite accurate. > > with regards and naman to all gurujan, > > bhuwan > lalkitab , " vkarora1949 " <vkarora1@h...> wrote: > > Dear Iqbal ji: > > > > For some time, I also struggled with this issue being the father > of > > 2 children one born in Canada and the other in the US. I have also > > had a number of discussions with Bhatiaji as well as with my > father > > who was a frequent visitor to Pt Roop Chand Joshi and had seen him > > cast horoscope of foreign born using logic outlined by Bhatiaji in > > his very insightful article on " Lal Kitab Methodology for Births > > Abroad " Here is my understanding: > > > > a)Your birth at 9:45PM EDT Sep 27, 1976 in Toronto translated to > > 7:23AM Madras time Sep 28. The proposition here is that 2 > children > > born at the same INSTANT one in Toronto on Sep 27 at 9:45PM and > the > > other in Madras at 7:23AM on Sep 28 will have identical horoscopes > > > > b) You bring up the notion that this cannot be true because at > that > > INSTANT the planetary configuration in Toronto is different than > in > > Madras - a powerful and a logical argument > > > > c) The paradigm here is that Lal Kitab rules apply once the > > horoscope is transposed into an equivalent Madras time. Bhatiaji > in > > his write-up is implying that the difference in planetary > > configuration (Toronto versus Madras in our example) manifests > > itself as a different " environment " when analysing via the LK > > system. The way I am interpreting this is that if your income is > > expected to be 10 it will be Rs 10 or 10 canadian dollars - > perhaps > > a simplistic example. > > > > Anyway I would be interested in comments experienced practitioners > > may have on the subject > > > > > > Regards > > Vijay Arora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lalkitab , " punjabilovebug " > > <punjabilovebug> wrote: > > > Respected Bhatia Ji, > > > > > > Thank you for posting your article on DST and foreign births. > > While > > > informative, I don't think it yet clears up some of the > confusion > > > that many of us foreign-borns have. > > > > > > For instance, you have placed Venus+Rahu in the lagna using the > > > example cited (September 27, 1976 21:45 TORONTO, CAN), but using > > > several software programs including Parashara's and online > > > calculators, the planet formation comes out as follows: > > > > > > Jupiter - 1 > > > Saturn - 3 > > > Me/Ma/Su- 5 > > > Ve/Ra - 6 > > > Mo - 7 > > > Ke - 12 > > > > > > This is because it is Taurus ascendant. Even if we take the 1 > hour > > > off of the 21:45pm time, then we are left with Taurus ascendant > > > also, which would in both cases place Jupiter in lagna. > > > > > > This issue is very important to understand, so much so that I > > > visited Pandit Som Dutt Ji in Toronto to get a kundli made, and > > > while he first made it according to the planet formation listed, > > > during the process he changed it to Gemini rising with Me/Ma/Sun > > in > > > lagna. > > > > > > The planets that were in formation in India's skies were not the > > > ones a native is born under in his foreign abode. The > calculations > > > of the Lal Kitab are all based on the planets exactly at the > time > > of > > > birth. If we say that only IST is relevant, then the items > > mentioned > > > in the Lal Kitab(houses, kinds of trees, effects on neighbors, > > power > > > outages during birth) should only be in effect in India (i.e: > The > > > native's ancestor's/parents home). > > > > > > Do you see the paradox we are facing? One the one hand, we say > > that > > > Lal Kitab is universal in its application, but then we say that > > > everything has to be engineered back to IST. I have checked the > > > planet placements several times, and each time, the planets in > the > > > sky in India are NOT the same ones present over North America at > > the > > > exact time of birth. > > > > > > This is not a negative post in any way, for I am indebted to you > > for > > > the time and effort you have placed in bringing this issue to > > light > > > with your article. What I am saying is that the impacts of Lal > > Kitab > > > should be applied universally based on the planets at place of > > birth. > > > > > > I have taken your example and the native at hand does not > exhibit > > > any of the qualities mentioned with the planetary formation. > > Rather, > > > he still exhibits the qualities of the planets I have mentioned > > > above. > > > > > > Your seniority in this issue is much appreciated - do you have > any > > > further thoughts based on my post? > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > Iqbal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 Respected Vijay jee, Which ever method you employ to analyse the horoscope , if the two horoscopes { one with Madras latitude and the other with Toronto latitude } are going to be different then , logically speaking , the results should also be different specially if the lagnansh { Asc degrees } difference makes Lagna sign change. This could be very possible if the Ascendant is rising towards the end of the sign. Secondly , as I had said in an earlier post , there is absolutely nothing sacrosanct about Madras except that the old railway time in India was based on the Madras longitude. IST { based on 82 & half degree E } came into force from Sept 1947 . And since there were no tables of Ascendants for Latitudes available till 1951 , it must have been convenient to work out the Asc with the Madras time and latitude. And finally , who told you that the horoscopes of those born out of India have to be recast at the Madras time and Latitude for Lal Kitab purposes. No , not at all.'rasi chhor,nakshatra bhulaya na hi koi panchang liya ' simply states what Pandit jee had done. We could , at the most ,take it as a suggestion , " don't get lost into the labrynth of the vedic arithematic " . It is an advice and not a dictum. An advice which could have been quite practical in those days. Secondly , Pt. Roopchand jee could have said that because he used palmistry to get to the finer points of the horoscope , wich we normally can't . But he too had to go beyond the simple { sthool } horoscope either through palmistry or his devine vision. You can't expect us to have those abilities.Therefore we have to depend upon the accuracy of the horoscope , and in my case on the vedic arithematic too for generating grah bal , bhav bal , navansh etc. At the time of Pt Roopchand jee , for ordinary astrologers casting a kundali based at Madras might have been the only alternative in the absence of ephemeris . But now we have all the scientific tools to cast a horoscope accurately. Well , sundials may have their historical value but nobody uses them now. Even for the Lal Kitab analysis , I would always go by the most scientifically drawn horoscope rather than using an archaic method which I know for sure is not accurate. with regards and naman to all gurujan, bhuwan lalkitab , " vkarora1949 " <vkarora1@h...> wrote: > Respected Bhuvan ji: > > I agree completely with you that the 2 ascendants will be > different. The distinction I am making is in the analysis of > foreign born. If you are going to analyse using Vedic principles > that the software generated horoscope is fine. However, when > analysing via the Lal Kitab like varshfal, halaat etc you need to > recast as if the birth was out of Madras. Right or wrong this has > been my understanding. > > With regards > Vijay > > > lalkitab , " bhuwanvashishtha " > <bhuwanvashishtha> wrote: > > Respected Arora jee, > > > > The Ascendant of the two children born at the same time , same > day , > > in Toronto and Madras will not and CAN NOT be the same. The Asc > not > > only depends on the Longitude { time factor } but on the Latitude > { > > rising factor } also . The difference in lagnansha { degrees of > the > > Asc } will be anything between 8 degrees to 20 degrees depending > on > > the sidereal time of birth. This difference might even change the > > sign of Ascendant. Therefore I suggest that the contemporary > method > > of calculating Asc should be used. Most of the softwares available > > are quite accurate. > > > > with regards and naman to all gurujan, > > > > bhuwan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lalkitab , " vkarora1949 " <vkarora1@h...> > wrote: > > > Dear Iqbal ji: > > > > > > For some time, I also struggled with this issue being the father > > of > > > 2 children one born in Canada and the other in the US. I have > also > > > had a number of discussions with Bhatiaji as well as with my > > father > > > who was a frequent visitor to Pt Roop Chand Joshi and had seen > him > > > cast horoscope of foreign born using logic outlined by Bhatiaji > in > > > his very insightful article on " Lal Kitab Methodology for Births > > > Abroad " Here is my understanding: > > > > > > a)Your birth at 9:45PM EDT Sep 27, 1976 in Toronto translated to > > > 7:23AM Madras time Sep 28. The proposition here is that 2 > > children > > > born at the same INSTANT one in Toronto on Sep 27 at 9:45PM and > > the > > > other in Madras at 7:23AM on Sep 28 will have identical > horoscopes > > > > > > b) You bring up the notion that this cannot be true because at > > that > > > INSTANT the planetary configuration in Toronto is different than > > in > > > Madras - a powerful and a logical argument > > > > > > c) The paradigm here is that Lal Kitab rules apply once the > > > horoscope is transposed into an equivalent Madras time. > Bhatiaji > > in > > > his write-up is implying that the difference in planetary > > > configuration (Toronto versus Madras in our example) manifests > > > itself as a different " environment " when analysing via the LK > > > system. The way I am interpreting this is that if your income > is > > > expected to be 10 it will be Rs 10 or 10 canadian dollars - > > perhaps > > > a simplistic example. > > > > > > Anyway I would be interested in comments experienced > practitioners > > > may have on the subject > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > Vijay Arora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lalkitab , " punjabilovebug " > > > <punjabilovebug> wrote: > > > > Respected Bhatia Ji, > > > > > > > > Thank you for posting your article on DST and foreign births. > > > While > > > > informative, I don't think it yet clears up some of the > > confusion > > > > that many of us foreign-borns have. > > > > > > > > For instance, you have placed Venus+Rahu in the lagna using > the > > > > example cited (September 27, 1976 21:45 TORONTO, CAN), but > using > > > > several software programs including Parashara's and online > > > > calculators, the planet formation comes out as follows: > > > > > > > > Jupiter - 1 > > > > Saturn - 3 > > > > Me/Ma/Su- 5 > > > > Ve/Ra - 6 > > > > Mo - 7 > > > > Ke - 12 > > > > > > > > This is because it is Taurus ascendant. Even if we take the 1 > > hour > > > > off of the 21:45pm time, then we are left with Taurus > ascendant > > > > also, which would in both cases place Jupiter in lagna. > > > > > > > > This issue is very important to understand, so much so that I > > > > visited Pandit Som Dutt Ji in Toronto to get a kundli made, > and > > > > while he first made it according to the planet formation > listed, > > > > during the process he changed it to Gemini rising with > Me/Ma/Sun > > > in > > > > lagna. > > > > > > > > The planets that were in formation in India's skies were not > the > > > > ones a native is born under in his foreign abode. The > > calculations > > > > of the Lal Kitab are all based on the planets exactly at the > > time > > > of > > > > birth. If we say that only IST is relevant, then the items > > > mentioned > > > > in the Lal Kitab(houses, kinds of trees, effects on neighbors, > > > power > > > > outages during birth) should only be in effect in India (i.e: > > The > > > > native's ancestor's/parents home). > > > > > > > > Do you see the paradox we are facing? One the one hand, we say > > > that > > > > Lal Kitab is universal in its application, but then we say > that > > > > everything has to be engineered back to IST. I have checked > the > > > > planet placements several times, and each time, the planets in > > the > > > > sky in India are NOT the same ones present over North America > at > > > the > > > > exact time of birth. > > > > > > > > This is not a negative post in any way, for I am indebted to > you > > > for > > > > the time and effort you have placed in bringing this issue to > > > light > > > > with your article. What I am saying is that the impacts of Lal > > > Kitab > > > > should be applied universally based on the planets at place of > > > birth. > > > > > > > > I have taken your example and the native at hand does not > > exhibit > > > > any of the qualities mentioned with the planetary formation. > > > Rather, > > > > he still exhibits the qualities of the planets I have > mentioned > > > > above. > > > > > > > > Your seniority in this issue is much appreciated - do you have > > any > > > > further thoughts based on my post? > > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Iqbal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 Bhuvan Ji, As in my previous post about Bill Gates horoscope which was cast based on his birth at Seattle, Washington,USA. Now to convert it in to Lal Kitab horoscope all you need to do is renumber the houses from Lagna = 1, and so on. Correct ? Now I am not any ways close to being a LalKitab student never mind expert, but can you please confirm from LK point of view that it is Bill's horoscope from his fame and wealth. This will confirm the topic of discussion that we have about casting the birth chart for foriegn born person. Regards Gullu lalkitab , " bhuwanvashishtha " <bhuwanvashishtha> wrote: > Respected Vijay jee, > > > > Which ever method you employ to analyse the horoscope , if the two > horoscopes { one with Madras latitude and the other with Toronto > latitude } are going to be different then , logically speaking , the > results should also be different specially if the lagnansh { Asc > degrees } difference makes Lagna sign change. This could be very > possible if the Ascendant is rising towards the end of the sign. > > Secondly , as I had said in an earlier post , there is absolutely > nothing sacrosanct about Madras except that the old railway time in > India was based on the Madras longitude. IST { based on 82 & half > degree E } came into force from Sept 1947 . And since there were no > tables of Ascendants for Latitudes available till 1951 , it must > have been convenient to work out the Asc with the Madras time and > latitude. > > And finally , who told you that the horoscopes of those born out of > India have to be recast at the Madras time and Latitude for Lal > Kitab purposes. No , not at all.'rasi chhor,nakshatra bhulaya na hi > koi panchang liya ' simply states what Pandit jee had done. We > could , at the most ,take it as a suggestion , " don't get lost into > the labrynth of the vedic arithematic " . It is an advice and not a > dictum. An advice which could have been quite practical in those > days. Secondly , Pt. Roopchand jee could have said that because he > used palmistry to get to the finer points of the horoscope , wich we > normally can't . But he too had to go beyond the simple { sthool } > horoscope either through palmistry or his devine vision. You can't > expect us to have those abilities.Therefore we have to depend upon > the accuracy of the horoscope , and in my case on the vedic > arithematic too for generating grah bal , bhav bal , navansh etc. > > At the time of Pt Roopchand jee , for ordinary astrologers casting > a kundali based at Madras might have been the only alternative in > the absence of ephemeris . But now we have all the scientific tools > to cast a horoscope accurately. Well , sundials may have their > historical value but nobody uses them now. > > Even for the Lal Kitab analysis , I would always go by the most > scientifically drawn horoscope rather than using an archaic method > which I know for sure is not accurate. > > with regards and naman to all gurujan, > > bhuwan > > > > > > lalkitab , " vkarora1949 " <vkarora1@h...> wrote: > > Respected Bhuvan ji: > > > > I agree completely with you that the 2 ascendants will be > > different. The distinction I am making is in the analysis of > > foreign born. If you are going to analyse using Vedic principles > > that the software generated horoscope is fine. However, when > > analysing via the Lal Kitab like varshfal, halaat etc you need to > > recast as if the birth was out of Madras. Right or wrong this has > > been my understanding. > > > > With regards > > Vijay > > > > > > lalkitab , " bhuwanvashishtha " > > <bhuwanvashishtha> wrote: > > > Respected Arora jee, > > > > > > The Ascendant of the two children born at the same time , same > > day , > > > in Toronto and Madras will not and CAN NOT be the same. The Asc > > not > > > only depends on the Longitude { time factor } but on the > Latitude > > { > > > rising factor } also . The difference in lagnansha { degrees of > > the > > > Asc } will be anything between 8 degrees to 20 degrees depending > > on > > > the sidereal time of birth. This difference might even change > the > > > sign of Ascendant. Therefore I suggest that the contemporary > > method > > > of calculating Asc should be used. Most of the softwares > available > > > are quite accurate. > > > > > > with regards and naman to all gurujan, > > > > > > bhuwan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lalkitab , " vkarora1949 " <vkarora1@h...> > > wrote: > > > > Dear Iqbal ji: > > > > > > > > For some time, I also struggled with this issue being the > father > > > of > > > > 2 children one born in Canada and the other in the US. I have > > also > > > > had a number of discussions with Bhatiaji as well as with my > > > father > > > > who was a frequent visitor to Pt Roop Chand Joshi and had seen > > him > > > > cast horoscope of foreign born using logic outlined by > Bhatiaji > > in > > > > his very insightful article on " Lal Kitab Methodology for > Births > > > > Abroad " Here is my understanding: > > > > > > > > a)Your birth at 9:45PM EDT Sep 27, 1976 in Toronto translated > to > > > > 7:23AM Madras time Sep 28. The proposition here is that 2 > > > children > > > > born at the same INSTANT one in Toronto on Sep 27 at 9:45PM > and > > > the > > > > other in Madras at 7:23AM on Sep 28 will have identical > > horoscopes > > > > > > > > b) You bring up the notion that this cannot be true because at > > > that > > > > INSTANT the planetary configuration in Toronto is different > than > > > in > > > > Madras - a powerful and a logical argument > > > > > > > > c) The paradigm here is that Lal Kitab rules apply once the > > > > horoscope is transposed into an equivalent Madras time. > > Bhatiaji > > > in > > > > his write-up is implying that the difference in planetary > > > > configuration (Toronto versus Madras in our example) manifests > > > > itself as a different " environment " when analysing via the LK > > > > system. The way I am interpreting this is that if your income > > is > > > > expected to be 10 it will be Rs 10 or 10 canadian dollars - > > > perhaps > > > > a simplistic example. > > > > > > > > Anyway I would be interested in comments experienced > > practitioners > > > > may have on the subject > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > Vijay Arora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lalkitab , " punjabilovebug " > > > > <punjabilovebug> wrote: > > > > > Respected Bhatia Ji, > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for posting your article on DST and foreign > births. > > > > While > > > > > informative, I don't think it yet clears up some of the > > > confusion > > > > > that many of us foreign-borns have. > > > > > > > > > > For instance, you have placed Venus+Rahu in the lagna using > > the > > > > > example cited (September 27, 1976 21:45 TORONTO, CAN), but > > using > > > > > several software programs including Parashara's and online > > > > > calculators, the planet formation comes out as follows: > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter - 1 > > > > > Saturn - 3 > > > > > Me/Ma/Su- 5 > > > > > Ve/Ra - 6 > > > > > Mo - 7 > > > > > Ke - 12 > > > > > > > > > > This is because it is Taurus ascendant. Even if we take the > 1 > > > hour > > > > > off of the 21:45pm time, then we are left with Taurus > > ascendant > > > > > also, which would in both cases place Jupiter in lagna. > > > > > > > > > > This issue is very important to understand, so much so that > I > > > > > visited Pandit Som Dutt Ji in Toronto to get a kundli made, > > and > > > > > while he first made it according to the planet formation > > listed, > > > > > during the process he changed it to Gemini rising with > > Me/Ma/Sun > > > > in > > > > > lagna. > > > > > > > > > > The planets that were in formation in India's skies were not > > the > > > > > ones a native is born under in his foreign abode. The > > > calculations > > > > > of the Lal Kitab are all based on the planets exactly at the > > > time > > > > of > > > > > birth. If we say that only IST is relevant, then the items > > > > mentioned > > > > > in the Lal Kitab(houses, kinds of trees, effects on > neighbors, > > > > power > > > > > outages during birth) should only be in effect in India > (i.e: > > > The > > > > > native's ancestor's/parents home). > > > > > > > > > > Do you see the paradox we are facing? One the one hand, we > say > > > > that > > > > > Lal Kitab is universal in its application, but then we say > > that > > > > > everything has to be engineered back to IST. I have checked > > the > > > > > planet placements several times, and each time, the planets > in > > > the > > > > > sky in India are NOT the same ones present over North > America > > at > > > > the > > > > > exact time of birth. > > > > > > > > > > This is not a negative post in any way, for I am indebted to > > you > > > > for > > > > > the time and effort you have placed in bringing this issue > to > > > > light > > > > > with your article. What I am saying is that the impacts of > Lal > > > > Kitab > > > > > should be applied universally based on the planets at place > of > > > > birth. > > > > > > > > > > I have taken your example and the native at hand does not > > > exhibit > > > > > any of the qualities mentioned with the planetary formation. > > > > Rather, > > > > > he still exhibits the qualities of the planets I have > > mentioned > > > > > above. > > > > > > > > > > Your seniority in this issue is much appreciated - do you > have > > > any > > > > > further thoughts based on my post? > > > > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > > Iqbal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 Bhuvan Jee, I agree with your reasoning and logic 1000%. But this "seemingly controversial" method of "Madras time" was devised by Roop Chand Jee and those who know about this method work exclusively with it and have been getting excellent results. Pandit Jee did not adopt Madras time because of a lack of sophisticated almanacs (or automated tools.) He had access to the best almanac makers in North India; I have seen Lahiri's almanac among his books although he always used Pt Devi Dayal's Mufeed Aalam Jantree. (Pt Devi Dayal was a personal friend of his.) It is worth mentioning here that he learnt astronomy much before he got into astrology and knew and understood these principles much better than an average "good" astrologer. Even in small places like Ambala Cantt, numerous local astrologers (in the fifties) knew how to handle "foreign births" the Vedic way - the one that comes to mind is Prof Kanshi Ram who used to teach Sanskrit and classes on "almanac making." The knowledge was there and readily available but Pt Jee's approach is a novel one. Controversial and somewhat illogical? You bet. But so is the entire LalKitab system. I ventured to present what I know about the "foreign births." It is like trying to defend the logic behind the Varshphal ready-reckoner which I can't. Similarly, I can't explain the whys of this approach. Personally, I am very satisfied with it and have had excellent results. It is up to the individual Lakitabist to experiment with it, discard it or adopt it. Respectfully, Rajinder Bhatia vkarora1949 <vkarora1 wrote: Respected Bhuvan ji:I agree completely with you that the 2 ascendants will be different. The distinction I am making is in the analysis of foreign born. If you are going to analyse using Vedic principles Mail is new and improved - Check it out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 Dear Narsimha, Can we change the time zone settings in JH? I've made a current chart showing that we're in DST and saved it as my " default location " , but each time I open a new chart it shows EST. Also the Panchaga is now an hour off. Also, I have JH version 7.02 - I understand there is an update. How can I get it? Thanks, and blessings to all, Julli Morrison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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