Kunda Method and Birth Time rectification

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Kunda Method and Birth Time rectification

(Source: AIA Website: Kunda Method and Birth Time Rectification )

 

Last Updated on Sunday, 26 April 2009 11:04

 

Written by Panditji, Sreenadh OG, Vinita

 

Sunday, 26 April 2009 11:03 [Participants: Panditji, Sreenadh OG, Vinita] [Editor: Sreenadh OG] Admin Note: Any editor preparing such write-ups based on AIA Group conversations are requested to follow the below guidelines. The participants and editors name should be mentioned at the top of the documentThe

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participant name mentioned and his words below intendedEditor

should take care to ensure the continuity of the subject matter

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should take care to put his comments always within square brackets. The

editor has the full freedom to edit/remove any part of the conversation

to ensure continuity and readability of the articles, but adding extra

statements outside the editor brackets or within the conversation as

if statements made by participants (when they didn't) should be

avoided. Always give the original thread URL as a reference, in the beginning of the document. [Thread: /message/368] [This is a conversation record write-up prepared based on a thread happened in AIA . Please note that, many points from the original discussion might have been omitted here to make this readable] Panditji: I

had heard of nav-navamsa technique long time ago, but do not recall

exactly how it was done. This would be a great discussion and actually

will open up a big Pandora box of general techniques of birth time

rectifications. I think we should ask people who have a lot of

experience in these techniques to share their findings. What about

Kunda method, Nav-navamsa, etc? Sreenadh: Lagna Longitude X 81 = Nava Navamsa Nava

Navamsa is also known as Kunda. I used to refer to Lagna longitude or

any rasi longitude using the letter R. So I will prefer to write R.

where R=Rasi longitude. (It is just the generalized form) i.e. Nava

Navamsa = R x 81. It is also known as Kunda Multiplication method

since, Ku=1 and nda=8 as per katapayadi notation (the system of using

letters instead of numbers). 81 = 9 x 9, and that is why the word Nava

Navamsa. Nava = 9. The

concept is that R x 81 should fall in birth star of the native or its

trine stars. Then only the birth time can be considered correct, they

(ancient astrological texts) say. JHora provides the Kunda longitude

which is accurate. In the basics tab just look at the Kunda longitude

and in which star it falls and correct the time slightly so that the

Kunda longitude falls in the Birth star or its trine stars. It is that

simple. By

the way, Kunda method and Nava navamsa are the same. By error JHora

follows different calculations methods for the both, and the 'Nava

Navamsa' given in JHora is different from Kunda and is an erroneous

value. PVR uses some the round about way of expunging of multiples of

360 or the like for Nava navamsa, which he has already admitted that

gives an erroneous value. But the Kunda given as per JHora is ok. It is

one and the same as Nava Navamsa. Panditji: Thanks

for this info. When you say Rasi longitude, you mean the lagna

longitude, right? Birth Star means the Nakshatra in which Chandra is

placed, correct? Just trying to make sure that the entire lingo is

properly defined. There

was a note from Chadra Hari regarding this method,. Not sure exactly

what his conclusions were. Have you done this on known charts to verify

whether the method works unfailingly? Sreenadh: Quote When you say Rasi longitude, you mean the lagna longitude, right? Unquote As

far as Kunda verification is concerned - Yes. But Nava navamsa (Kunda)

of other planetary longitudes or other longitudes are also

mentioned/used in texts like Prasnamarga for other purposes. But that

is not relevant here. Quote Birth Star means the Nakshatra in which Chandra is placed, correct? Unquote Yes.

The relation between Body (Lagna) and Mind (Mo) is a must for birth to

take place. That is why, it is said that the Nava navamsa (Kunda)

should fall in the birth star or its trine stars. Quote Have you done this on known charts to verify whether the method works unfailingly? Unquote This

is a method that gives the possible moments of birth, and the maximum

correction that can be applied by this method is plus or minus 3

minutes only. It is a method supported by Skanda Hora, Brihat

prajatyam, Varaha hora, Prasna Ratna and Prasnamarga. Chandra hari is

speaking about some rhythm of time based on this. How we are going to

be sure that, this is an unfailing method, or the like, when the

correction applied is just 3 min max? It is a well supported method by

authentic texts and is logically correct that is the only thing I can

say. If there is an error of more than 6 min in birth time, this method

is not going to help. It is one of the 4 methods known as 'Varga chtushtaya methods'. P.S.

: PVR gives Kunda and Nava navamsa seperately in JHora because, JHora

gives Navamsa of 2 types - Parasara (general system; R x9) and

Kalachakra navamsa (I don't know what it is). The nava navamsa is

calculated differently for both. And that is why he made it a seperate

option from Kunda. When Parasara navamsa is selected, Kunda and Nava

navamsa should be the same even if such a separation is made. But due

to erroneous nava-navamsa calculation method followed, JHora is not

giving this result. But its Kunda calculation is OK. Vinita: What a wonderful post! U have written – Quote The

relation between Body (Lagna) and Mind (Mo) is a must for birth to take

place. That is why, it is said that the Nava navamsa (Kunda) should

fall in the birth star or its trine stars. Unquote My

question is how much time does it take to be born? Is one born exact to

the second, or a fraction of a second or is there a wider window for

the Lagna (body) and Mind (Moon) to unite? They

say that death is not instantaneous - but may take some time (for the

body to be disengaged from the mind...or for the mind to

dissolve?)....so I suppose birth should also take some time to happen.

So then how does one determine the birth time? Isn't there a range of

time for birth too? And

then how does one determine this range of time (if it is a range of

time and not a very precise second or a fraction of a second)? Is it

when the umbilical chord is severed? Or when the baby's head first

emerges, or when it breathes for the first time (cries?)? Now I am sure

there would be difference of some seconds if not minutes for such

things to happen. What do the ancient texts say about this? The

reason I am asking this is that with my very limited understanding i

tried the exercise on the Kunda. Earlier I had rectified my birth time

by 2 minutes and 15 seconds because this meant a change in the Navamsa

lagna which matched the 7th house of my husband just like my 7th house

matched with his (exact to the rasi and planets in the rasi). With the

Kunda method the trine of the birth Nakshatra matches with the Kunda if

I move the time backward by 15 seconds. This made me wonder whether

birth takes a while or if it is exact to the second or the fraction of

a second. Sreenadh: You always make me write long mails, by posting some simple, small but in-depth queries. You said: Quote My

question is how much time does it take to be born? Is one born exact to

the second, or a fraction of a second or is there a wider window for

the Lagna (body) and Mind (Moon) to unite? Unquote Birth

does not take place in a moment – you and I know. I don't think any

explanation is necessary on that. But the horoscope is cast based on

some exact moment (correct to seconds), that is supposed to reflect the

rhythm of destiny – I think some explanation is necessary on that. Let

us start from the first question Which is the correct Birth Time? Quote Is

it when the umbilical chord is severed? Or when the baby's head first

emerges, or when it breathes for the first time (cries?)? Now I am sure

there would be difference of some seconds if not minutes for such

things to happen. Unquote Yes,

you are right – and also right in judging what I can say – "What do the

ancient texts say about this?" Of course I should agree that even the

Rishis have different opinion on this – but luckily their basic opinion

is not different. The Birth time is - 1) The time at which head, feet or hand comes out – this argument is supported by Saravali, Garga Jataka 2) The time at which placenta breaks (Gerbhodaka sruti) – supported by Brihat Sounaka hora, Saravali 3) The time at which umbilical cord is cut – supported by none. 4) The time of first breath - supported by none. 5) The time of first cry – supported by none. 6) Time of union of sperm with ovum (Aadhana) – supported by Saravali, Leghu Jatakam 7) The time at which forehead is seen – Saravali 8) The time of first touching the earth – Saravali Note

that Saravali itself supports 5 of these methods. There is a sloka in

Saravali that explicitly states the same as well. Destiny is also

predicted based on – Time of marriage, Time of first menses for girls

etc. So what is the generalization? Let us give it as no.9 9) Based

on any moment that very closely related to an individual, based on any

moment that is very important in his life, the pattern of destiny can

be predicted. I

think that last option clearly depicts the actual view of the Rishis.

Now it is not possible to collect the exact moment of any of the above

- so even in that period they had no other option but to resort to the

mathematical methods for determining the exact moment that depicts

destiny, once the approximate BT is got. Therefore the mathematical

methods given below get more importance than the above points. All of

them just give the approximate birth time, since birth is a process

that takes many minutes. Now the question to be answered is – does,

Rishi horas support the use of such mathematical methods? Yes. Vasishta

hora says – Sastrokta margena sulegnakalam samaneyam Meaning,

the birth time (and the longitude of the ascendant) should be corrected

following the ancient advice. Kasyapa hora says – Sidhantoktena margena lagnakalam presadhayet Meaning, the birth time (and the longitude of the ascendant) should be corrected following mathematical methods. There

fore we need to search for the mathematical methods that were in use to

find the precious moment (exact to the seconds) that depicts the rhythm

of destiny for that person. (Could it be there more than one such point

for a single person? OK. I live it for you to think). Such methods I

got from ancient texts are – 1) Pancha Tatwa method – partially supported by Uttara kalamrita, Yajcha valkya smriti 2) Kunda method – supported by Sounaka hora, Brihal prajapatya, Varaha hora 3) Navams Dwadasamsa – Brihat Prajapatya 4) Varga chatushtaya method – Skanda hora, Brihat prajaptyam, Sounaka hora, Prasna ratna, Prasnamarga. 5) Birth time ghati-vighati - Uttara kalamrita. I think these are the most important methods that are available. · The

first method has the advantage that it helps for BT rectification for

even more than 10 min at times. But this method is not well supported

by classics. · The 2nd and 3rd are just part of the 4th method. So I reject them. · The

Varga chatushtaya method is well supported by Rishi horas and seems to

have been in use for long. This is the most authentic method. · The 5th method does not find any support in Rishi horas. So the conclusion is that, · We need to know the approximate birth time. (take any) · To correct it we can use the Varga chatushtaya method and Pancha tatwa method. This is the conclusion I got. Birth lagna verification – Use Gk – says Prasna Ratna, Prasna sangraha, Jataka parijata, prasnasara, phaladeepika unanimously. Quote This made me wonder whether birth takes a while or if it is exact to the second or the fraction of a second. Unquote As

per ancient definitions, birth takes a while, but the horoscope is

created based on a mathematically corrected moment within that span,

which is supposed to depict the destiny more accurately for that

individual. P.S:

It is said that a ripple creates thousand ripples. Similar is a

question – the result is thousands of questions. But yes, that is the

right way of learning. [Editor:

This thread was much informative and gave new insights about the

organization and approach of birth time rectification methods] - 0 -

[Guest guest]

Namaskar Senior Members,

This post is brilliant but some confusions are also there, as i understand the concept of kunda well but doesn't understand how to use:

To correct it we can use the Varga chatushtaya method and Pancha tatwa method.

This is the conclusion I got.

Birth lagna verification – Use Gk – says Prasna Ratna, Prasna sangraha, Jataka parijata, prasnasara, phaladeepika unanimously.

 

Plz explain it

Thanks

 

 

Sreenadh <sreesog Sent: Thursday, 30 April, 2009 11:14:32 PM Kunda Method and Birth Time rectification

 

 

Kunda Method and Birth Time rectification

(Source: AIA Website: Kunda Method and Birth Time Rectification )

Last Updated on Sunday, 26 April 2009 11:04 Written by Panditji, Sreenadh OG, Vinita Sunday, 26 April 2009 11:03

[Participants: Panditji, Sreenadh OG, Vinita]

[Editor: Sreenadh OG]

 

 

 

 

 

Admin Note:

Any editor preparing such write-ups based on AIA Group conversations are requested to follow the below guidelines.

 

The participants and editors name should be mentioned at the top of the document

The article should be presented in a conversation form itself, with participant name mentioned and his words below intended

Editor should take care to ensure the continuity of the subject matter discussed by slipping in his own comments between conversations, but should take care to put his comments always within square brackets.

The editor has the full freedom to edit/remove any part of the conversation to ensure continuity and readability of the articles, but adding extra statements outside the editor brackets or within the conversation as if statements made by participants (when they didn't) should be avoided.

Always give the original thread URL as a reference, in the beginning of the document.

[Thread: http://groups. / group/ancient_ indian_astrology /message/ 368]

[This is a conversation record write-up prepared based on a thread happened in AIA . http://groups. / group/ancient_ indian_astrology Please note that, many points from the original discussion might have been omitted here to make this readable]

 

Panditji:

I had heard of nav-navamsa technique long time ago, but do not recall exactly how it was done. This would be a great discussion and actually will open up a big Pandora box of general techniques of birth time rectifications. I think we should ask people who have a lot of experience in these techniques to share their findings. What about Kunda method, Nav-navamsa, etc?

 

Sreenadh:

Lagna Longitude X 81 = Nava Navamsa

Nava Navamsa is also known as Kunda. I used to refer to Lagna longitude or any rasi longitude using the letter R. So I will prefer to write R. where R=Rasi longitude. (It is just the generalized form) i.e. Nava Navamsa = R x 81. It is also known as Kunda Multiplication method since, Ku=1 and nda=8 as per katapayadi notation (the system of using letters instead of numbers).. 81 = 9 x 9, and that is why the word Nava Navamsa. Nava = 9.

 

The concept is that R x 81 should fall in birth star of the native or its trine stars. Then only the birth time can be considered correct, they (ancient astrological texts) say. JHora provides the Kunda longitude which is accurate. In the basics tab just look at the Kunda longitude and in which star it falls and correct the time slightly so that the Kunda longitude falls in the Birth star or its trine stars. It is that simple.

By the way, Kunda method and Nava navamsa are the same. By error JHora follows different calculations methods for the both, and the 'Nava Navamsa' given in JHora is different from Kunda and is an erroneous value. PVR uses some the round about way of expunging of multiples of 360 or the like for Nava navamsa, which he has already admitted that gives an erroneous value. But the Kunda given as per JHora is ok. It is one and the same as Nava Navamsa.

 

Panditji:

Thanks for this info. When you say Rasi longitude, you mean the lagna longitude, right? Birth Star means the Nakshatra in which Chandra is placed, correct? Just trying to make sure that the entire lingo is properly defined.

There was a note from Chadra Hari regarding this method,. Not sure exactly what his conclusions were. Have you done this on known charts to verify whether the method works unfailingly?

 

Sreenadh:

Quote

When you say Rasi longitude, you mean the lagna longitude, right?

Unquote

As far as Kunda verification is concerned - Yes. But Nava navamsa (Kunda) of other planetary longitudes or other longitudes are also mentioned/used in texts like Prasnamarga for other purposes. But that is not relevant here.

Quote

Birth Star means the Nakshatra in which Chandra is placed, correct?

Unquote

Yes. The relation between Body (Lagna) and Mind (Mo) is a must for birth to take place. That is why, it is said that the Nava navamsa (Kunda) should fall in the birth star or its trine stars.

Quote

Have you done this on known charts to verify whether the method works unfailingly?

Unquote

This is a method that gives the possible moments of birth, and the maximum correction that can be applied by this method is plus or minus 3 minutes only. It is a method supported by Skanda Hora, Brihat prajatyam, Varaha hora, Prasna Ratna and Prasnamarga. Chandra hari is speaking about some rhythm of time based on this. How we are going to be sure that, this is an unfailing method, or the like, when the correction applied is just 3 min max? It is a well supported method by authentic texts and is logically correct that is the only thing I can say. If there is an error of more than 6 min in birth time, this method is not going to help.

It is one of the 4 methods known as 'Varga chtushtaya methods'.

P.S. : PVR gives Kunda and Nava navamsa seperately in JHora because, JHora gives Navamsa of 2 types - Parasara (general system; R x9) and Kalachakra navamsa (I don't know what it is). The nava navamsa is calculated differently for both. And that is why he made it a seperate option from Kunda. When Parasara navamsa is selected, Kunda and Nava navamsa should be the same even if such a separation is made. But due to erroneous nava-navamsa calculation method followed, JHora is not giving this result. But its Kunda calculation is OK.

 

Vinita:

What a wonderful post! U have written –

Quote

The relation between Body (Lagna) and Mind (Mo) is a must for birth to take place. That is why, it is said that the Nava navamsa (Kunda) should fall in the birth star or its trine stars.

Unquote

My question is how much time does it take to be born? Is one born exact to the second, or a fraction of a second or is there a wider window for the Lagna (body) and Mind (Moon) to unite?

They say that death is not instantaneous - but may take some time (for the body to be disengaged from the mind...or for the mind to dissolve?).. ..so I suppose birth should also take some time to happen. So then how does one determine the birth time? Isn't there a range of time for birth too?

And then how does one determine this range of time (if it is a range of time and not a very precise second or a fraction of a second)? Is it when the umbilical chord is severed? Or when the baby's head first emerges, or when it breathes for the first time (cries?)? Now I am sure there would be difference of some seconds if not minutes for such things to happen. What do the ancient texts say about this?

The reason I am asking this is that with my very limited understanding i tried the exercise on the Kunda. Earlier I had rectified my birth time by 2 minutes and 15 seconds because this meant a change in the Navamsa lagna which matched the 7th house of my husband just like my 7th house matched with his (exact to the rasi and planets in the rasi). With the Kunda method the trine of the birth Nakshatra matches with the Kunda if I move the time backward by 15 seconds. This made me wonder whether birth takes a while or if it is exact to the second or the fraction of a second.

 

Sreenadh:

You always make me write long mails, by posting some simple, small but in-depth queries. You said:

Quote

My question is how much time does it take to be born? Is one born exact to the second, or a fraction of a second or is there a wider window for the Lagna (body) and Mind (Moon) to unite?

Unquote

Birth does not take place in a moment – you and I know. I don't think any explanation is necessary on that. But the horoscope is cast based on some exact moment (correct to seconds), that is supposed to reflect the rhythm of destiny – I think some explanation is necessary on that. Let us start from the first question

Which is the correct Birth Time?

Quote

Is it when the umbilical chord is severed? Or when the baby's head first emerges, or when it breathes for the first time (cries?)? Now I am sure there would be difference of some seconds if not minutes for such things to happen.

Unquote

Yes, you are right – and also right in judging what I can say – "What do the ancient texts say about this?" Of course I should agree that even the Rishis have different opinion on this – but luckily their basic opinion is not different. The Birth time is -

1) The time at which head, feet or hand comes out – this argument is supported by Saravali, Garga Jataka

2) The time at which placenta breaks (Gerbhodaka sruti) – supported by Brihat Sounaka hora, Saravali

3) The time at which umbilical cord is cut – supported by none.

4) The time of first breath - supported by none.

5) The time of first cry – supported by none.

6) Time of union of sperm with ovum (Aadhana) – supported by Saravali, Leghu Jatakam

7) The time at which forehead is seen – Saravali

8) The time of first touching the earth – Saravali

Note that Saravali itself supports 5 of these methods. There is a sloka in Saravali that explicitly states the same as well. Destiny is also predicted based on – Time of marriage, Time of first menses for girls etc. So what is the generalization? Let us give it as no.9

9) Based on any moment that very closely related to an individual, based on any moment that is very important in his life, the pattern of destiny can be predicted.

I think that last option clearly depicts the actual view of the Rishis. Now it is not possible to collect the exact moment of any of the above - so even in that period they had no other option but to resort to the mathematical methods for determining the exact moment that depicts destiny, once the approximate BT is got. Therefore the mathematical methods given below get more importance than the above points. All of them just give the approximate birth time, since birth is a process that takes many minutes. Now the question to be answered is – does, Rishi horas support the use of such mathematical methods? Yes. Vasishta hora says –

Sastrokta margena sulegnakalam samaneyam

Meaning, the birth time (and the longitude of the ascendant) should be corrected following the ancient advice. Kasyapa hora says –

Sidhantoktena margena lagnakalam presadhayet

Meaning, the birth time (and the longitude of the ascendant) should be corrected following mathematical methods.

There fore we need to search for the mathematical methods that were in use to find the precious moment (exact to the seconds) that depicts the rhythm of destiny for that person. (Could it be there more than one such point for a single person? OK. I live it for you to think). Such methods I got from ancient texts are –

1) Pancha Tatwa method – partially supported by Uttara kalamrita, Yajcha valkya smriti

2) Kunda method – supported by Sounaka hora, Brihal prajapatya, Varaha hora

3) Navams Dwadasamsa – Brihat Prajapatya

4) Varga chatushtaya method – Skanda hora, Brihat prajaptyam, Sounaka hora, Prasna ratna, Prasnamarga.

5) Birth time ghati-vighati - Uttara kalamrita.

I think these are the most important methods that are available.

· The first method has the advantage that it helps for BT rectification for even more than 10 min at times. But this method is not well supported by classics.

· The 2nd and 3rd are just part of the 4th method. So I reject them.

· The Varga chatushtaya method is well supported by Rishi horas and seems to have been in use for long. This is the most authentic method.

· The 5th method does not find any support in Rishi horas.

So the conclusion is that,

· We need to know the approximate birth time. (take any)

· To correct it we can use the Varga chatushtaya method and Pancha tatwa method.

This is the conclusion I got.

Birth lagna verification – Use Gk – says Prasna Ratna, Prasna sangraha, Jataka parijata, prasnasara, phaladeepika unanimously.

Quote

This made me wonder whether birth takes a while or if it is exact to the second or the fraction of a second.

Unquote

As per ancient definitions, birth takes a while, but the horoscope is created based on a mathematically corrected moment within that span, which is supposed to depict the destiny more accurately for that individual.

 

P.S: It is said that a ripple creates thousand ripples. Similar is a question – the result is thousands of questions. But yes, that is the right way of learning.

 

[Editor: This thread was much informative and gave new insights about the organization and approach of birth time rectification methods]

- 0 -

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Rajiv,

 

Will you please explain use the Varga chatushtaya method and Pancha tatwa method

for the guidance of other members of the forum.

 

Love and regards

 

--- On Fri, 5/1/09, rajiv rajiv <rajiv_rajiv2 wrote:

 

 

rajiv rajiv <rajiv_rajiv2

Re: Kunda Method and Birth Time

rectification

 

Friday, May 1, 2009, 5:25 AM

 

 

Namaskar Senior Members,

  This post is brilliant but some confusions are also there, as i understand the

concept of kunda well but doesn't understand how to use:

 

To correct it we can use the Varga chatushtaya method and Pancha tatwa method.

This is the conclusion I got.

Birth lagna verification – Use Gk – says Prasna Ratna, Prasna sangraha,

Jataka parijata, prasnasara, phaladeepika unanimously.

 

 

  Plz explain it

 Thanks

[Guest guest]

Dear Rajiv ji, Refer to the archieve - the discussion on this subject already happened many times in the group. If you want documents, you can refer to the following - 1) Sreenadh%20OG/Birth Rectification%20(Complete).pdf 2) Sreenadh%20OG/Birth%20Time%20Rectification.pdf Hope it helps. Note: I am not in a mood for another detailed discussion on the same subject again. Please be satisfied with the above documents and the previous discussions.Regards,Sreenadh , rajiv rajiv <rajiv_rajiv2 wrote:>> Namaskar Senior Members,> This post is brilliant but some confusions are also there, as i understand the concept of kunda well but doesn't understand how to use:> > To correct it we can use the Varga chatushtaya method and Pancha tatwa method.> This is the conclusion I got.> Birth lagna verification â€" Use Gk â€" says Prasna Ratna, Prasna sangraha, Jataka parijata, prasnasara, phaladeepika unanimously.> > Plz explain it> > Thanks