Male-Female verification using Natal chart

[Guest guest]

Male-Female verification using Natal chart

 

 

Last Updated on Sunday, 26 April 2009 12:20

 

Written by Sreenadh OG, David Andrews, Panditji, Pandit Arjun

 

Sunday, 26 April 2009 12:19 (Source: AIA Website: Male-Female verification from Natal Chart )[Participants: Sreenadh OG, David Andrews, Panditji, Pandit Arjun] [Editor: Sreenadh OG] Admin Note: Any editor preparing such write-ups based on AIA Group conversations are requested to follow the below guidelines. The participants and editors name should be mentioned at the top of the documentThe

article should be presented in a conversation form itself, with

participant name mentioned and his words below intendedEditor

should take care to ensure the continuity of the subject matter

discussed by slipping in his own comments between conversations, but

should take care to put his comments always within square brackets. The

editor has the full freedom to edit/remove any part of the conversation

to ensure continuity and readability of the articles, but adding extra

statements outside the editor brackets or within the conversation as

if statements made by participants (when they didn't) should be

avoided. Always give the original thread URL as a reference, in the beginning of the document. [Thread: /message/315] [This is a conversation record write-up prepared based on a thread happened in AIA . Please note that, many points from the original discussion might have been omitted here to make this readable] [Editor:

This write-up discusses the `astrological rules for male-female

verification from natal horoscope'. Even though started in a big way

the tread ended up nowhere, even though some bit of useful info got

shared] Sreenadh: I have a suggestion - Why can't we (here in this group) try to evaluate whether a horoscope is of a male or female? Let

anybody provide the horoscope, without revealing whether it is of a

male or female, and shall we try to verify whether it is of a male or

female, yes 'only based on the prime laws given here itself'. Because

we will make it 'NOT a test of the predictive power of the

participants', but 'a test of those prime laws given for verification'.

After verifying around 10 or 20 horoscopes, we will compare it with the

actual. As Arjun ji said: please don't say, "I PREDICTED" or "I SAID

SO", but let us stop making tall claims and validate the tool. It we

fail, we will understand that it is the failure of the 'prime rules

selected for validation' and 'not ours'. Then later at some point of

time we will select another set of rules and conduct similar

experiments. [Editor: After this, some possible rules to determine, whether a horoscope is of a male or female is given] The

horoscope verified to determine whether it is of a male or female

against the following 7 Basic rules. [They are the 'only rules that

would be considered' and NO OTHER RULES SHOULD BE CONSIDERED in this

exercise] The MAXIMUM points (marks) are given in brackets. I] Male. 1) If Su and Ju are in Oja(Male) sign, then it is male. Male planets in male sign is the logic behind. [2 points] 2)

If Lagna, Moon, Su, Ju are in Oja(Male) sign, then it is male.

Placement of significators for body, mind, soul and luck is the logic

behind. Same rule should be applied to Navamsa as well. [4+4=8 points] 3)

If Su, Ju, Sa are in 1-3-5-7-9-11 then it is a male. Male planets in

Oja (male) houses from Lagna is the logic behind. [3 points] II] Female. 1) If Ve and Mo are in Ugma (Female) sign, then it is female. Female planets in female sign is the logic behind. [2 points] 2)

If Lagna, Moon, Su, Ju are in Ugma(Female) sign, then it is female.

Placement of significators for body, mind, soul and luck is the logic

behind. Same rule should be applied to Navamsa as well. [4+4=8 points] 3)

If Ve, Mo, Me are in 2-4-6-8-10-12 then it is a female. Female planets

in Ugma (Female) houses from Lagna is the logic behind. [3 points] Total

13 points are considered for Male and for Female. It is determined

whether it is of a male or female based on the majority points. The

astrologer (participant), has the liberty to assign 2 points

considering the placement power (Exaltation, Own house, Vargottama etc

of planets in favor or male or female). So the maximum point either

male or female can get is: 13+2= 15 points I

hope the rules are clear. Let me know, about your opinion about such an

experiment. Also let us select a trustee (who will keep the actual data

supplied, and reveal it at the end), before proceeding. PS:

The rules I laid out are well supported by the classics. Even though Ma

is said to be a male planet, since it indicates menses classics

consider its placement to be indicative of female birth as well, that

is why Ma is left out in all these considerations. Sa is said to

indicate male impotent, and Me female impotent. But it is said in

classics that the placement of Sa in 1-3-5-7-9-11 indicates male birth

and Me in 2-4-6-8-10-12 female birth. I think it clarifies. In

every chart both male and female nature (male and female indications)

are present. It is the majority points that determine whether a chart

is of a male or female as per astrology. [Rules

that will ensure the objective nature of the exercise got listed below

this. (I won't be quoting them here) But this branch of the thread

seemed die-out there itself, since none dared to take up or participate

in such an exercise! They were all afraid of their own reputation!

Sreenadh tried to bring back this issue in to focus again, with the

following message] Sreenadh: It

seems that everybody brilliantly ignored the above message from me!

'Why, shall I know?' or should I say 'Why shall I know?' There were no

mal-intentions, in that message - but only the curiosity for objective

verification of rules. Determining whether the horoscope is of a male

or female is one of the basic tests we can conduct in a systematic way.

That was the only reason for presenting the suggestion for such an

experiment. If anybody has the feeling that the rules put forward are

not proper and good enough, together we will make amendments, and try

to implement such an exercise, even at a later date. But if nobody is

interested, please ignore this message, and we will continue with our

normal discussions. David Andrews: I

don't think anyone has deliberately ignored your message. I for one can

sincerely attest to the fact of careful reading of every message you

post as they contain gems of inestimable value. I have yet to read your

lengthy message on the above subject. I will certainly be reading it as

it is something anyone who aspires to learn Vedic astrology would love

to know. Astrologers in Tamilnadu use certain Ghatis and Vighatis to

differentiate between a male and female. Is that not followed by

astrologers in Kerala? I am writing to you to inform you that your

efforts here in this list are not wasted. It is surely appreciated.

Please carry on the good work. Sreenadh: Thanks

for the encouragement and the thoughts shared. Almost no method in

astrology is specific to Kerala or Tamilnadu or for that reason to any

other region in India. We are here in search of different systems of

ancient indian astrology - that is all to it. Yes, some astrologers in

Kerala follow that as well. I found more than 10 methods for correcting

the BT and 5-6 for verifying BT and the like used by various

astrologers which are supported by classics as well. As you may know,

the ghati-vighati method for determining male-female from horoscope is

supported by Uttara Kalamrita, a text originated in North India.

Probably some of the Tamil astrologers are following it as per that

text only. Pandit Arjun: Even

while appreciating your principles of male planets in male signs and

female planets in female signs from a birth chart for deciphering the

gender, in my experience it is not foolproof even in correct birth

charts. Here comes the role of prasna chart. Though I am not an expert

in prasna chart, under the prasna principles, the result is amazingly

precise in deciphering the native's gender. Panditji: What

are these unfailing principles, could you elaborate with an example.

Sreenadhji, In your earlier mail you referred to 1-3-5-7-9-11 for

Saturn and 2-4-6-8-10-12 for Mercury. These are houses not signs I

presume. It still is a very broad definition. So if Saturn is in Cancer

now, so for Virgo lagna right now Saturn will be in 11th house. That is

two hours approx. every day. Need some finer measures to have it as an

unfailing technique Sreenadh: Sign

and house are the same as per Mihira and all Rishi Horas. All systems

that consider signs and houses as different areas (like plesides system

etc) originated after Sripati only. Quote In your earlier mail you referred to 1-3-5-7-9-11 for Saturn and 2-4-6-8-10-12 for Mercury. Unquote When

I say "1-3-5-7-9-11 for Shani", I mean Odd (Oja) houses starting from

Lagna. and when I say "2-4-6-8-10-12 for Mercury" I mean Even (Ugma)

houses starting from Lagna. Please remember that sign and houses are

the same - the only difference being that Signs are counted from Mesha

(Aries) while Houses are counted from Lagna. By the way, the word 'Oja/Ugma' has got two meanings- 1) Odd and Even signs starting from Aries (Mesha) 2) Odd and Even houses (=signs) starting from Lagna Quote What are these unfailing principles, could you elaborate with an example. Unquote Whether

they are unfailing principles or not - I am not sure. We need to check

- and that is why I suggested this experiment. Saturn in 11th

is just one of the possibilities. In that experiment we are considering

15+15 = 30 conditions to check whether it is a male or female and takes

the decision only as per majority indications. [Editor:

The thread died-out there abruptly. May be everyone is in search of

easy solutions or systems where single tablet will solve every problem!

They were possibly in search of `unfailing principles' which are easy

to learn and use. But astrology is not simply a tool for wish

fulfillment – and so there is no such magic wand present. Thus even

though incomplete the discussion was much helpful in revealing many

things – including the dedication and approach of knowledgeable

individuals towards astrological research studies] - 0 -

[Guest guest]

Respected Sreenadh Ji,

 

I just checked my whole families & some friends its great that it did worked out right.

All your 15 points with plus or minus it for some reason it definatly showed me correct gender.

Who ever had searched this great knowledge of checking gender is a correct person with lots of knowledge.

I would really appreciate his skills, a great person

thanks

rashmi patel

 

 

 

Sreenadh <sreesog Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 1:40:14 PM Male-Female verification using Natal chart

 

 

Male-Female verification using Natal chart

Last Updated on Sunday, 26 April 2009 12:20 Written by Sreenadh OG, David Andrews, Panditji, Pandit Arjun Sunday, 26 April 2009 12:19

(Source: AIA Website: Male-Female verification from Natal Chart )

[Participants: Sreenadh OG, David Andrews, Panditji, Pandit Arjun]

[Editor: Sreenadh OG]

 

 

 

 

Admin Note:

Any editor preparing such write-ups based on AIA Group conversations are requested to follow the below guidelines.

 

The participants and editors name should be mentioned at the top of the document

The article should be presented in a conversation form itself, with participant name mentioned and his words below intended

Editor should take care to ensure the continuity of the subject matter discussed by slipping in his own comments between conversations, but should take care to put his comments always within square brackets.

The editor has the full freedom to edit/remove any part of the conversation to ensure continuity and readability of the articles, but adding extra statements outside the editor brackets or within the conversation as if statements made by participants (when they didn't) should be avoided.

Always give the original thread URL as a reference, in the beginning of the document.

[Thread: http://groups. / group/ancient_ indian_astrology /message/ 315]

[This is a conversation record write-up prepared based on a thread happened in AIA . http://groups. / group/ancient_ indian_astrology Please note that, many points from the original discussion might have been omitted here to make this readable]

[Editor: This write-up discusses the `astrological rules for male-female verification from natal horoscope'. Even though started in a big way the tread ended up nowhere, even though some bit of useful info got shared]

Sreenadh:

I have a suggestion - Why can't we (here in this group) try to evaluate whether a horoscope is of a male or female?

Let anybody provide the horoscope, without revealing whether it is of a male or female, and shall we try to verify whether it is of a male or female, yes 'only based on the prime laws given here itself'. Because we will make it 'NOT a test of the predictive power of the participants' , but 'a test of those prime laws given for verification' . After verifying around 10 or 20 horoscopes, we will compare it with the actual. As Arjun ji said: please don't say, "I PREDICTED" or "I SAID SO", but let us stop making tall claims and validate the tool. It we fail, we will understand that it is the failure of the 'prime rules selected for validation' and 'not ours'. Then later at some point of time we will select another set of rules and conduct similar experiments.

[Editor: After this, some possible rules to determine, whether a horoscope is of a male or female is given]

The horoscope verified to determine whether it is of a male or female against the following 7 Basic rules. [They are the 'only rules that would be considered' and NO OTHER RULES SHOULD BE CONSIDERED in this exercise] The MAXIMUM points (marks) are given in brackets.

 

I] Male.

1) If Su and Ju are in Oja(Male) sign, then it is male. Male planets in male sign is the logic behind. [2 points]

2) If Lagna, Moon, Su, Ju are in Oja(Male) sign, then it is male. Placement of significators for body, mind, soul and luck is the logic behind. Same rule should be applied to Navamsa as well. [4+4=8 points]

3) If Su, Ju, Sa are in 1-3-5-7-9-11 then it is a male. Male planets in Oja (male) houses from Lagna is the logic behind. [3 points]

II] Female.

1) If Ve and Mo are in Ugma (Female) sign, then it is female. Female planets in female sign is the logic behind. [2 points]

2) If Lagna, Moon, Su, Ju are in Ugma(Female) sign, then it is female. Placement of significators for body, mind, soul and luck is the logic behind. Same rule should be applied to Navamsa as well. [4+4=8 points]

3) If Ve, Mo, Me are in 2-4-6-8-10-12 then it is a female. Female planets in Ugma (Female) houses from Lagna is the logic behind. [3 points]

 

Total 13 points are considered for Male and for Female. It is determined whether it is of a male or female based on the majority points. The astrologer (participant) , has the liberty to assign 2 points considering the placement power (Exaltation, Own house, Vargottama etc of planets in favor or male or female). So the maximum point either male or female can get is: 13+2= 15 points

I hope the rules are clear. Let me know, about your opinion about such an experiment. Also let us select a trustee (who will keep the actual data supplied, and reveal it at the end), before proceeding.

PS: The rules I laid out are well supported by the classics. Even though Ma is said to be a male planet, since it indicates menses classics consider its placement to be indicative of female birth as well, that is why Ma is left out in all these considerations. Sa is said to indicate male impotent, and Me female impotent. But it is said in classics that the placement of Sa in 1-3-5-7-9-11 indicates male birth and Me in 2-4-6-8-10-12 female birth. I think it clarifies.

 

In every chart both male and female nature (male and female indications) are present. It is the majority points that determine whether a chart is of a male or female as per astrology.

 

[Rules that will ensure the objective nature of the exercise got listed below this. (I won't be quoting them here) But this branch of the thread seemed die-out there itself, since none dared to take up or participate in such an exercise! They were all afraid of their own reputation! Sreenadh tried to bring back this issue in to focus again, with the following message]

 

Sreenadh:

It seems that everybody brilliantly ignored the above message from me! 'Why, shall I know?' or should I say 'Why shall I know?' There were no mal-intentions, in that message - but only the curiosity for objective verification of rules. Determining whether the horoscope is of a male or female is one of the basic tests we can conduct in a systematic way. That was the only reason for presenting the suggestion for such an experiment. If anybody has the feeling that the rules put forward are not proper and good enough, together we will make amendments, and try to implement such an exercise, even at a later date. But if nobody is interested, please ignore this message, and we will continue with our normal discussions.

 

David Andrews:

I don't think anyone has deliberately ignored your message. I for one can sincerely attest to the fact of careful reading of every message you post as they contain gems of inestimable value. I have yet to read your lengthy message on the above subject. I will certainly be reading it as it is something anyone who aspires to learn Vedic astrology would love to know. Astrologers in Tamilnadu use certain Ghatis and Vighatis to differentiate between a male and female. Is that not followed by astrologers in Kerala? I am writing to you to inform you that your efforts here in this list are not wasted. It is surely appreciated. Please carry on the good work.

 

Sreenadh:

Thanks for the encouragement and the thoughts shared. Almost no method in astrology is specific to Kerala or Tamilnadu or for that reason to any other region in India. We are here in search of different systems of ancient indian astrology - that is all to it. Yes, some astrologers in Kerala follow that as well. I found more than 10 methods for correcting the BT and 5-6 for verifying BT and the like used by various astrologers which are supported by classics as well. As you may know, the ghati-vighati method for determining male-female from horoscope is supported by Uttara Kalamrita, a text originated in North India. Probably some of the Tamil astrologers are following it as per that text only.

 

Pandit Arjun:

Even while appreciating your principles of male planets in male signs and female planets in female signs from a birth chart for deciphering the gender, in my experience it is not foolproof even in correct birth charts. Here comes the role of prasna chart. Though I am not an expert in prasna chart, under the prasna principles, the result is amazingly precise in deciphering the native's gender.

 

Panditji:

What are these unfailing principles, could you elaborate with an example. Sreenadhji, In your earlier mail you referred to 1-3-5-7-9-11 for Saturn and 2-4-6-8-10-12 for Mercury. These are houses not signs I presume. It still is a very broad definition. So if Saturn is in Cancer now, so for Virgo lagna right now Saturn will be in 11th house. That is two hours approx. every day. Need some finer measures to have it as an unfailing technique

Sreenadh:

Sign and house are the same as per Mihira and all Rishi Horas. All systems that consider signs and houses as different areas (like plesides system etc) originated after Sripati only.

Quote

In your earlier mail you referred to 1-3-5-7-9-11 for Saturn and 2-4-6-8-10-12 for Mercury.

Unquote

When I say "1-3-5-7-9-11 for Shani", I mean Odd (Oja) houses starting from Lagna. and when I say "2-4-6-8-10- 12 for Mercury" I mean Even (Ugma) houses starting from Lagna. Please remember that sign and houses are the same - the only difference being that Signs are counted from Mesha (Aries) while Houses are counted from Lagna.

By the way, the word 'Oja/Ugma' has got two meanings-

1) Odd and Even signs starting from Aries (Mesha)

2) Odd and Even houses (=signs) starting from Lagna

 

Quote

What are these unfailing principles, could you elaborate with an example.

Unquote

Whether they are unfailing principles or not - I am not sure. We need to check - and that is why I suggested this experiment. Saturn in 11th is just one of the possibilities. In that experiment we are considering 15+15 = 30 conditions to check whether it is a male or female and takes the decision only as per majority indications.

 

[Editor: The thread died-out there abruptly. May be everyone is in search of easy solutions or systems where single tablet will solve every problem! They were possibly in search of `unfailing principles' which are easy to learn and use. But astrology is not simply a tool for wish fulfillment – and so there is no such magic wand present. Thus even though incomplete the discussion was much helpful in revealing many things – including the dedication and approach of knowledgeable individuals towards astrological research studies]

- 0 -

[Guest guest]

Dear Rasmi ji, No such appreciation is required since it is just the collective knowledge of the generations. Based on the numerous texts and Prasnamarga only the list is prepared. Actually the texts like prasnamarga mentions about 32 points, I have listed only 15 which I felt as Important. Love and regards,Sreenadh , rashmi patel <rashmihpatel wrote:>> Respected Sreenadh Ji,> > I just checked my whole families & some friends its great that it did worked out right.> All your 15 points with plus or minus it for some reason it definatly showed me correct gender.> Who ever had searched this great knowledge of checking gender is a correct person with lots of knowledge.> I would really appreciate his skills, a great person> thanks> rashmi patel