Krittikadi

April 18, 2009

Dear Sreenadh-ji,

Please take it easy. We are lesser mortals, just describing

what comes in mind.

You asked about which Samkranti I was referring to....

The answer was available in previous paragraph itself.... In our

part of world, we care about 3 Samkranti-s only and all (I guess)

are Solar ones...between signs

Chaitra Samkranti ( Vishu / Rongali Bihu etc) and start of Bengali

and Assamese New Year.

Ashwin Samkranti - (Kartik) Kati Bihu or Kongali Bihu

Makar / Paush Samkranti - Magh (Bhogali) Bihu / Nabanna

Thanks for telling about Onam. BTW, good to know about Chinga

month (Month of Leo). In Bengali, lion would be called Singha.

quite close.

Please note that I am not making any fuss about it. The topic is interesting.

That's all.

regards

P L Chakraborty

Sreenadh [sreesog]Saturday, April 18, 2009 1:28 PM Subject: Re: Krittikadi

Dear Chakraborty ji, ==>

Regarding the festivals in India, I noticed few things..Festivals are

originated from two or three strata of society.

1) Most of the festivals connected to Vedic Gods are related to

Lunar Tithi.

2) Most of the Agrarian festivals are related to equinoxes like

Vishu (Kerala) /Bihu (Assam)/Baishakhi (Punjab) / Bisagu (Bodo)

Also, all the Samkranti related festivals (Makar samkranti and

Ashwin Samkranti (Kati Bihu in Assam)

3) New year celebration is also related to Samkranti

4) Kumbha / Amrut Kumbha celebration is related to Jup

5) There are few sets of festivals which could be called as 'Laukik'

or related to common folks. These will include 'Manasaa Puja'

Vishwakarma Puja etc. These are related to some particular date

(like 1st day of Ashadha, 1st day of Ashwin etc)

<== That was beautifully said - I agree with you. Let me go through it. //1) Most of the festivals connected to Vedic Gods are related to

Lunar Tithi.// This also means that most of the festivals NOT connected to Vedic Gods are NOT related to Lunar Tithi! Many of them like Onam of Chinga masa (Month of Leo) of Kerala has strong relation with Nakshatra and Sign and has no connection with Tithi. //2) Most of the Agrarian festivals are related to equinoxes like

Vishu (Kerala) /Bihu (Assam)/Baishakhi (Punjab) / Bisagu (Bodo)

Also, all the Samkranti related festivals (Makar samkranti and

Ashwin Samkranti (Kati Bihu in Assam)// Agree. This is absolutly right. Agrarian festivals are usually related to Tropical Zodiac, the seasons, and even the Nakshtra position of Sun (Njayar Nila - Placement of Sun in Nakshatra divisions) as kerala traidtion puts it. //3) New year celebration is also related to Samkranti// But what is Sankaranti? What do you mean by the word Sankranti? * Do you mean the transit of Sun between solar months such as Tapa, Tapasya, Madhu, Madhava etc? * Do you mean the transit of Sun between Lunar months (this itself sound absurd) such as Chaitra, Vaisakha etc? * Do you mean the transit of Sun between fixed Sign months such as Mesha, Vrishabha etc? If it mean the 3rd one (i.e. Samkranti means transit between signs such as Mesha, Vrishaba etc) then does it not point to the existance of Signs from the Vedic past itself (provided Sankranti is mentioned in Vedic literature). //5) There are few sets of festivals which could be called as 'Laukik'

or related to common folks. These will include 'Manasaa Puja'

Vishwakarma Puja etc. These are related to some particular date

(like 1st day of Ashadha, 1st day of Ashwin etc)// May be this can be elaborated and categorised into two. 1st day of Ashadha, 1st day of Ashwin etc is some how connected to some seasons (Ritus) as well. There could be numerous local festiveals which are not in any way connected to seasons, lunar months, tithis, nakshatras etc. Simply put what I understand till date about festivals is that - They REPEAT on the SAME DAY, located using some or all of the panchanga parameters such as - * Year (Use the Jupitarian year name) * Month (This could be Solar or Lunar) * Fortnight (Paksha - this could be Suklapaksha or Krishna paksha) * Tithi * Nakshatra * Week day (its use seems to be limited in festivals) * Nitya yoga (its use seems to be very limited in fixing festivals) So in short a repeating festival day is simply - repeating day! Located mainly by considering either - * Year, Month, Fortnight, Tithi, Nakshatra * Year, Month, Fortnight, Tithi * Year, Month, Fortnight, Nakshatra * Year, Month, Nakshatra * Year, Month, Thithi * Year, Month, Day Usually the festival is in memory of somthing - whether it be a repeating season, or a past event. If the approach is this simple, then why are me making it a big issue? Ofcourse the only questions that would remain to be answered is - which year length to use, whch type of month, whether to give improtance to Tithi or nakshatra etc etc only. This also can be addressed simply by making the people see the point rather than be too orthadox. i.e. The approach should be to follow the same system using which they got defined knowing the seasonal connection, event or memory connected with. For example, if it is Vishu, it is well clear that Solar Year, Solar Month and Day should be considered and nothing else. If it is Onam of keala it is clear that Nirayana Year, Nirayana Month Simha (Sun in Leo) and Nakashatra (Sravana) should be considered. Why to make it all a big issue like Kaul does? Pleaple have freedom, they have logic, and festivals are not of much importance or worth, if the logic, purpose or memory behind them is not understood. This is my approach.Love and regards,Sreenadh

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April 18, 2009

, " sunil nair "

<astro_tellerkerala wrote:

hari malla ji

now the cat has come out of bag ,means u r not realy after calender and

only wanted to taunt astrologers and astrology in the name of calender

reforms and it is wat is kaulian agenda

it is revealed in this statemnts

Brahmah's life is limited, but ananta is unlimited.I think Brahma is

connected with seasons and we have to change the uttaryan form time to

time.

means u and kaul will make enough calenders for whole brahma 's life

time with changing sankranthies or is it brahma is some jewish abrahm

and his wife saraswathi is yehudian lady sarah and he originated in

world around BC 4000 according church and u want to fit in with every

hindu era with that time frame ??

one maha yuga has 4 yugas ( satya yuga ,treta yuga ,dwapara yuga and

kali yuga where we hav calender ppl like u ) s0 a maha yuga is 43 20000

yrs and 1000 such maha yuga is one kalpa and it is one day in the life

of brahma

like that 360 kalpa days make one yr in brhma s life

and such 120 brahma yrs is supposed as his longitivity

so it is 43 20 0000 x 1000 x 360 x 120 yrs == u do calculations

so it is good arguemnt to torture astrologers ( that is ur hidden

agenda in the name of this lunatic calender ) as u can make calenders

for all this yugas by sitting in delhi tho even u dont hav one yr

calender right now .( may ask i u ?? R u this kaul himself in new avatar

, agendas are so Tallying )

all the best to u and kaul and i am not asking u to go out of this grp

,now already every one is discussing abt my language in various grps and

i abused so many gurus ,talking truth for them is abuse and time

waisters like u r gr8est contributers to hindu dharma .

so let us stop here and i bless u for such calenders and print it

circulate as earliest as possible and without u ppl our hindu dharma

and gods are at danger .sure u ppl can talk yrs and yrs without any

problems but i blv all others value their time as they r not paid for

this kind of tasks like u and every mail will add to ur bank account it

seems .

but you also know that to reach God or reality, we have to coordinate

the three ie, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva after a long time. [] [:-B]

[(]

means all of us has waisted our life right ????and no moksha for us

rgrds sunil nair

This tread is closed and if u post any thing in this subjuct u r at

the risk of terminating ur posting previlages

, Hari Malla

harimalla@ wrote:

>

> Dear Sunil Nairji,

> Thank you for your frank opinion.I liked the way you have mentioned

about two points Brahma and Ananta.This is quite true.Brahmah's life is

limited, but ananta is unlimited.I think Brahma is connected with

seasons and we have to change the uttaryan form time to time. Ananta is

nirayan. Nirayan which is Vishnu or Shiva whose life is unlimited.but

you also know that to reach God or reality, we have to coordinate the

three ie, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva after a long time.Thus the concept of

manawantar and kalpa is brought.Manwantar is when we shift one whole

month to coordinate the three, Brahmah, vishnu and Shiva.The reason we

have to ache our head is for this when th coordination is lost. If we

don't change the manawantar when the coordination is lost, then all our

dahrma and jyotish do not tally.It is time to do so, if we are sincere.

> Well if we are not in the mood,then we can do when the mood

comes.Thank you.

> Regards,

>

> ________________________________

> sunil nair astro_tellerkerala@

>

> Saturday, April 18, 2009 6:11:32 PM

> Fw: Re: Krittikadi

dear hari malla ji

> I think u r again confused with hindu zodiac with seasons ,it is

untrue and it is a lie which ppl like kaul want to push .where as it is

abt creation .that is why kala purusha and all that concept happened

..kala purusha head cannot change every day ,it has to b a fixed one

atleast for a mathematical purpose tho we dont know when kala or time

originated and hence yuga concept etc .Kala purusha the time

personified has to b eternal that is why the concept brahma ( lord of

creations ) and anantha ( infinity ) come and taken as 2 points ,one

abov and one below in universe and taken as whole universe is in anda (

egg ) shape and rasi chakra is a plane in between with 8 directions

where sun ecliptical path is there .And that is hindu rasi chakra or

what u call zodiac in english and only grahas r considered means not

planets in english means which can capture or control u ( grahanam para

kotya --- means planets may b in crores of numbrs but we take

> only 7 planets and rahu ,ketu )

> vedic ppl has ( be it indus or vedic or non vedic or tantrik ) has so

many calenders in use and each has its own purpose ,and dont confuse or

need not break our head with affinity to one and opposing other .

> first try to find which system we need to follow and follow such

calenders ,a uniform calender can b a political one or a church one only

..

>

> Again i am afraid ur over enthusism is upsetting our main aim of this

grp which is astrology and its diffrnt aspect s

> we r not worried at present with kaulians calenders

>

> if after 10 K yrs makara sankranthi happening with hot season it is

non of my problem at least for now ,if there is any religious things

involved in it also then we astrologers are helpless as no one accepted

me or any one in this grp as dharmaacharyas ( head preist s or gurus )

,so that we can issue a papal decree and solv that problem of u .

> all this i am writing because u again clubbing with seasons and

splitting hair which is not our duty and even majority in this grp is

not interested tho later kaulians can say sunil nair run away frm

discussions .right now we r not in a mood to argue and prove again

again which is solar calender which is lunar calender etc ,tho it seems

u hav ample of time

>

> hope u talk astrology here

>

> rgrds sunil nair

>

> ancient_indian_ astrology, Hari Malla

harimalla@ .> wrote:

> >

> > //let me remind my friends that there is mention of the vernal

equinox where we have the head of the (Purusha?) in the vedas.//

> >

> > Sreenadhji, I have provided, the quotes of SB Dixit in my last

postng.

> >

> > //With the litle reading I have done, I have come to know that in

the ancient time the months were mainly lunar months.//

> > Where are the quotes? And why you are being so sure on this without

evidence? Do you want to argue that " Tapa, Tapasya, Madhu, Madhava etc "

are Lunar months and not solar?! Do you want to argue that Chaitra,

Vaisakaha etc months are Lunar in nature and there nevar existed solar

and lunar months with the same name (Lunar Chaitra and Solar Chaitra!)

as AKK argues? Do you want to argue that Nakshatra (Lunar) moths with 27

days each existed even though they didn't had a name for those

Nakshatra masas (Siderial months)?

> > This is quite obvious. Madhu madhav are lunar months.The reason is

that the word maasa is used synonimously in the vedas for both month and

the moon. Proving the lackof solar months. Lunar chaitra only was there

previously and solar chaitra came into being only after the advent of

rashis mesh Vrish etc., i.e. after the sidhant jyotish period started.

The names of the nakshyatras months of 27 days are not commonly known

to us even if they existed.The nakshyatra months have no relation with

the seasons. they are connected to the nakshyatras only, i.e. are

sidereal.The stars do not affect us directly. If they affected us then

we would have to consider total of 88 constellations intead of only 12

rashis out of them.

> >

> > //In Atharva samhita ,we read of 'Ayanam maghaa'.From this, it is

clear that firstly there was Uttrayan at Magh purnima//

> > What a confusion! Please not that you are mixing Lunar Months (with

the words Makha Purnima), Nakshtra masa (Ayanams Magha) and Solar moths

(Uttarayana) . Why you want to club Nakshatra Chakra with Lunar months?

Ayana is Solar or Lunar in nature?

> > Sreendhji, Uttaryan can be both solar like makar sankranti and lunar

like Poush purnima, when we celebrate maagha snana even now. Maagha

snana used to be celebrated during the vedanga jyotish period on magha

sukla pratipada.During the sidhanta jyotish period it was shifted to

Poush purnima. This has been dealt by SB dixit too.

> >

> > //> The change in equinox or solstice seems togo by the validity of

the lunar tithi.this could be the reason why we do not have Bhariniadi

series and a jump from Kritikadi to Aswiniadi.//

> > What do you mean by those words? It doesn't make any sense to me

as of now - can you please elaborate and explain what you wanted to say?

> > Sreenadhji,because our festivals are basically lunar, and lunar

tithi can fluctuate for one month due to adhimas, It can remain uttaryan

for a very long time, upto even 2000 years.then only we may switch over

the uttarayan or vishuvat one whole or one whole pakshya. That could be

the reason we jumped from Kritikadi to Aswinadi, without having

Bhariniadi series, as you have pointed out..

> > Love and regards,

> > Sreenadh

> > Where? Please provide the quote - without which such 'opinions'

are not valid.

> >

> > ancient_indian_ astrology, Hari Malla

> >

> > ----- Forwarded Message ----

> > Sreenadh sreesog@

> > ancient_indian_ astrology

> > Saturday, April 18, 2009 12:43:51 PM

> > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Krittikadi

> >

> > Dear Hari Malla ji,

> > //let me remind my friends that there is mention of the vernal

equinox where we have the head of the (Purusha?) in the vedas.//

> > Where? Please provide the quote - without which such 'opinions'

are not valid.

> > //With the litle reading I have done, I have come to know that in

the ancient time the months were mainly lunar months.//

> > Where are the quotes? And why you are being so sure on this without

evidence? Do you want to argue that " Tapa, Tapasya, Madhu, Madhava etc "

are Lunar months and not solar?! Do you want to argue that Chaitra,

Vaisakaha etc months are Lunar in nature and there nevar existed solar

and lunar months with the same name (Lunar Chaitra and Solar Chaitra!)

as AKK argues? Do you want to argue that Nakshatra (Lunar) moths with 27

days each existed even though they didn't had a name for those

Nakshatra masas (Siderial months)?

> > //In Atharva samhita ,we read of 'Ayanam maghaa'.From this, it is

clear that firstly there was Uttrayan at Magh purnima//

> > What a confusion! Please not that you are mixing Lunar Months (with

the words Makha Purnima), Nakshtra masa (Ayanams Magha) and Solar moths

(Uttarayana) . Why you want to club Nakshatra Chakra with Lunar months?

Ayana is Solar or Lunar in nature?

> > //> The change in equinox or solstice seems togo by the validity of

the lunar tithi.this could be the reason why we do not have Bhariniadi

series and a jump from Kritikadi to Aswiniadi.//

> > What do you mean by those words? It doesn't make any sense to me

as of now - can you please elaborate and explain what you wanted to say?

> > Love and regards,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> > ancient_indian_ astrology, Hari Malla

harimalla@ .> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Sreenadhji,Bhattach ayaji,

> > > I am happy our discussiion is taking a interesting turn.I am glad

I have come in a critical juncture.Through our mutual cooperation, we

may solve the century long problem of calender reform.I find

Bhatacharyaji is senior person with a balanced view.Sreenadhji is also

quite a careful person with critical power of analaysis.Sunil Nairji

seems to be philanthropist respecting the global nature of the vedic

culture which was clear from his last writing on vedic culture.

> > > Let us be without prejudices so we all arrive at the truth.As I

have already written in my last mail,let me remind my friends that there

is mention of the vernal equinox where we have the head of the in the

vedas.

> > > With the litle reading I have done, I have come to know that in

the ancient time the months were mainly lunar months.The seasons were

also lunar as we see that during the vedanga jyotish period the months

started from magh sukla pratipada as the winter solstice. In Atharva

samhita ,we read of 'Ayanam maghaa'.From this, it is clear that firstly

there was Uttrayan at Magh purnima,then it was shifted to magh sukla

pratipada when mid aslesha and dhanistha has been mentioned by Braha

mihir. Then during the early centuries of the christian era, we find

Makar sakranti and poush purnima as the new solstice even as mentioned

by Barahmihir in Brihad samhita. This last we are still celebrating.

> > > The change in equinox or solstice seems togo by the validity of

the lunar tithi.this could be the reason why we do not have Bhariniadi

series and a jump from Kritikadi to Aswiniadi.

> > > so let us please analyse it carefully, the facts we have come to

know from the ancient texts.Thank you