Guest guest Posted April 18, 2009 Report Share Posted April 18, 2009 Dear Sreenadh-ji, Please take it easy. We are lesser mortals, just describing what comes in mind. You asked about which Samkranti I was referring to.... The answer was available in previous paragraph itself.... In our part of world, we care about 3 Samkranti-s only and all (I guess) are Solar ones...between signs Chaitra Samkranti ( Vishu / Rongali Bihu etc) and start of Bengali and Assamese New Year. Ashwin Samkranti - (Kartik) Kati Bihu or Kongali Bihu Makar / Paush Samkranti - Magh (Bhogali) Bihu / Nabanna Thanks for telling about Onam. BTW, good to know about Chinga month (Month of Leo). In Bengali, lion would be called Singha. quite close. Please note that I am not making any fuss about it. The topic is interesting. That's all. regards P L Chakraborty Sreenadh [sreesog]Saturday, April 18, 2009 1:28 PM Subject: Re: Krittikadi Dear Chakraborty ji, ==> Regarding the festivals in India, I noticed few things..Festivals are originated from two or three strata of society. 1) Most of the festivals connected to Vedic Gods are related to Lunar Tithi. 2) Most of the Agrarian festivals are related to equinoxes like Vishu (Kerala) /Bihu (Assam)/Baishakhi (Punjab) / Bisagu (Bodo) Also, all the Samkranti related festivals (Makar samkranti and Ashwin Samkranti (Kati Bihu in Assam) 3) New year celebration is also related to Samkranti 4) Kumbha / Amrut Kumbha celebration is related to Jup 5) There are few sets of festivals which could be called as 'Laukik' or related to common folks. These will include 'Manasaa Puja' Vishwakarma Puja etc. These are related to some particular date (like 1st day of Ashadha, 1st day of Ashwin etc) <== That was beautifully said - I agree with you. Let me go through it. //1) Most of the festivals connected to Vedic Gods are related to Lunar Tithi.// This also means that most of the festivals NOT connected to Vedic Gods are NOT related to Lunar Tithi! Many of them like Onam of Chinga masa (Month of Leo) of Kerala has strong relation with Nakshatra and Sign and has no connection with Tithi. //2) Most of the Agrarian festivals are related to equinoxes like Vishu (Kerala) /Bihu (Assam)/Baishakhi (Punjab) / Bisagu (Bodo) Also, all the Samkranti related festivals (Makar samkranti and Ashwin Samkranti (Kati Bihu in Assam)// Agree. This is absolutly right. Agrarian festivals are usually related to Tropical Zodiac, the seasons, and even the Nakshtra position of Sun (Njayar Nila - Placement of Sun in Nakshatra divisions) as kerala traidtion puts it. //3) New year celebration is also related to Samkranti// But what is Sankaranti? What do you mean by the word Sankranti? * Do you mean the transit of Sun between solar months such as Tapa, Tapasya, Madhu, Madhava etc? * Do you mean the transit of Sun between Lunar months (this itself sound absurd) such as Chaitra, Vaisakha etc? * Do you mean the transit of Sun between fixed Sign months such as Mesha, Vrishabha etc? If it mean the 3rd one (i.e. Samkranti means transit between signs such as Mesha, Vrishaba etc) then does it not point to the existance of Signs from the Vedic past itself (provided Sankranti is mentioned in Vedic literature). //5) There are few sets of festivals which could be called as 'Laukik' or related to common folks. These will include 'Manasaa Puja' Vishwakarma Puja etc. These are related to some particular date (like 1st day of Ashadha, 1st day of Ashwin etc)// May be this can be elaborated and categorised into two. 1st day of Ashadha, 1st day of Ashwin etc is some how connected to some seasons (Ritus) as well. There could be numerous local festiveals which are not in any way connected to seasons, lunar months, tithis, nakshatras etc. Simply put what I understand till date about festivals is that - They REPEAT on the SAME DAY, located using some or all of the panchanga parameters such as - * Year (Use the Jupitarian year name) * Month (This could be Solar or Lunar) * Fortnight (Paksha - this could be Suklapaksha or Krishna paksha) * Tithi * Nakshatra * Week day (its use seems to be limited in festivals) * Nitya yoga (its use seems to be very limited in fixing festivals) So in short a repeating festival day is simply - repeating day! Located mainly by considering either - * Year, Month, Fortnight, Tithi, Nakshatra * Year, Month, Fortnight, Tithi * Year, Month, Fortnight, Nakshatra * Year, Month, Nakshatra * Year, Month, Thithi * Year, Month, Day Usually the festival is in memory of somthing - whether it be a repeating season, or a past event. If the approach is this simple, then why are me making it a big issue? Ofcourse the only questions that would remain to be answered is - which year length to use, whch type of month, whether to give improtance to Tithi or nakshatra etc etc only. This also can be addressed simply by making the people see the point rather than be too orthadox. i.e. The approach should be to follow the same system using which they got defined knowing the seasonal connection, event or memory connected with. For example, if it is Vishu, it is well clear that Solar Year, Solar Month and Day should be considered and nothing else. If it is Onam of keala it is clear that Nirayana Year, Nirayana Month Simha (Sun in Leo) and Nakashatra (Sravana) should be considered. Why to make it all a big issue like Kaul does? Pleaple have freedom, they have logic, and festivals are not of much importance or worth, if the logic, purpose or memory behind them is not understood. This is my approach.Love and regards,Sreenadh This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2009 Report Share Posted April 18, 2009 , " sunil nair " <astro_tellerkerala wrote: hari malla ji now the cat has come out of bag ,means u r not realy after calender and only wanted to taunt astrologers and astrology in the name of calender reforms and it is wat is kaulian agenda it is revealed in this statemnts Brahmah's life is limited, but ananta is unlimited.I think Brahma is connected with seasons and we have to change the uttaryan form time to time. means u and kaul will make enough calenders for whole brahma 's life time with changing sankranthies or is it brahma is some jewish abrahm and his wife saraswathi is yehudian lady sarah and he originated in world around BC 4000 according church and u want to fit in with every hindu era with that time frame ?? one maha yuga has 4 yugas ( satya yuga ,treta yuga ,dwapara yuga and kali yuga where we hav calender ppl like u ) s0 a maha yuga is 43 20000 yrs and 1000 such maha yuga is one kalpa and it is one day in the life of brahma like that 360 kalpa days make one yr in brhma s life and such 120 brahma yrs is supposed as his longitivity so it is 43 20 0000 x 1000 x 360 x 120 yrs == u do calculations so it is good arguemnt to torture astrologers ( that is ur hidden agenda in the name of this lunatic calender ) as u can make calenders for all this yugas by sitting in delhi tho even u dont hav one yr calender right now .( may ask i u ?? R u this kaul himself in new avatar , agendas are so Tallying ) all the best to u and kaul and i am not asking u to go out of this grp ,now already every one is discussing abt my language in various grps and i abused so many gurus ,talking truth for them is abuse and time waisters like u r gr8est contributers to hindu dharma . so let us stop here and i bless u for such calenders and print it circulate as earliest as possible and without u ppl our hindu dharma and gods are at danger .sure u ppl can talk yrs and yrs without any problems but i blv all others value their time as they r not paid for this kind of tasks like u and every mail will add to ur bank account it seems . but you also know that to reach God or reality, we have to coordinate the three ie, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva after a long time. [] [:-B] [(] means all of us has waisted our life right ????and no moksha for us rgrds sunil nair This tread is closed and if u post any thing in this subjuct u r at the risk of terminating ur posting previlages , Hari Malla harimalla@ wrote: > > Dear Sunil Nairji, > Thank you for your frank opinion.I liked the way you have mentioned about two points Brahma and Ananta.This is quite true.Brahmah's life is limited, but ananta is unlimited.I think Brahma is connected with seasons and we have to change the uttaryan form time to time. Ananta is nirayan. Nirayan which is Vishnu or Shiva whose life is unlimited.but you also know that to reach God or reality, we have to coordinate the three ie, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva after a long time.Thus the concept of manawantar and kalpa is brought.Manwantar is when we shift one whole month to coordinate the three, Brahmah, vishnu and Shiva.The reason we have to ache our head is for this when th coordination is lost. If we don't change the manawantar when the coordination is lost, then all our dahrma and jyotish do not tally.It is time to do so, if we are sincere. > Well if we are not in the mood,then we can do when the mood comes.Thank you. > Regards, > > > > > > ________________________________ > sunil nair astro_tellerkerala@ > > Saturday, April 18, 2009 6:11:32 PM > Fw: Re: Krittikadi dear hari malla ji > I think u r again confused with hindu zodiac with seasons ,it is untrue and it is a lie which ppl like kaul want to push .where as it is abt creation .that is why kala purusha and all that concept happened ..kala purusha head cannot change every day ,it has to b a fixed one atleast for a mathematical purpose tho we dont know when kala or time originated and hence yuga concept etc .Kala purusha the time personified has to b eternal that is why the concept brahma ( lord of creations ) and anantha ( infinity ) come and taken as 2 points ,one abov and one below in universe and taken as whole universe is in anda ( egg ) shape and rasi chakra is a plane in between with 8 directions where sun ecliptical path is there .And that is hindu rasi chakra or what u call zodiac in english and only grahas r considered means not planets in english means which can capture or control u ( grahanam para kotya --- means planets may b in crores of numbrs but we take > only 7 planets and rahu ,ketu ) > vedic ppl has ( be it indus or vedic or non vedic or tantrik ) has so many calenders in use and each has its own purpose ,and dont confuse or need not break our head with affinity to one and opposing other . > first try to find which system we need to follow and follow such calenders ,a uniform calender can b a political one or a church one only .. > > Again i am afraid ur over enthusism is upsetting our main aim of this grp which is astrology and its diffrnt aspect s > we r not worried at present with kaulians calenders > > if after 10 K yrs makara sankranthi happening with hot season it is non of my problem at least for now ,if there is any religious things involved in it also then we astrologers are helpless as no one accepted me or any one in this grp as dharmaacharyas ( head preist s or gurus ) ,so that we can issue a papal decree and solv that problem of u . > all this i am writing because u again clubbing with seasons and splitting hair which is not our duty and even majority in this grp is not interested tho later kaulians can say sunil nair run away frm discussions .right now we r not in a mood to argue and prove again again which is solar calender which is lunar calender etc ,tho it seems u hav ample of time > > hope u talk astrology here > > rgrds sunil nair > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Hari Malla harimalla@ .> wrote: > > > > > > > > //let me remind my friends that there is mention of the vernal equinox where we have the head of the (Purusha?) in the vedas.// > > > > Sreenadhji, I have provided, the quotes of SB Dixit in my last postng. > > > > //With the litle reading I have done, I have come to know that in the ancient time the months were mainly lunar months.// > > Where are the quotes? And why you are being so sure on this without evidence? Do you want to argue that " Tapa, Tapasya, Madhu, Madhava etc " are Lunar months and not solar?! Do you want to argue that Chaitra, Vaisakaha etc months are Lunar in nature and there nevar existed solar and lunar months with the same name (Lunar Chaitra and Solar Chaitra!) as AKK argues? Do you want to argue that Nakshatra (Lunar) moths with 27 days each existed even though they didn't had a name for those Nakshatra masas (Siderial months)? > > This is quite obvious. Madhu madhav are lunar months.The reason is that the word maasa is used synonimously in the vedas for both month and the moon. Proving the lackof solar months. Lunar chaitra only was there previously and solar chaitra came into being only after the advent of rashis mesh Vrish etc., i.e. after the sidhant jyotish period started. The names of the nakshyatras months of 27 days are not commonly known to us even if they existed.The nakshyatra months have no relation with the seasons. they are connected to the nakshyatras only, i.e. are sidereal.The stars do not affect us directly. If they affected us then we would have to consider total of 88 constellations intead of only 12 rashis out of them. > > > > //In Atharva samhita ,we read of 'Ayanam maghaa'.From this, it is clear that firstly there was Uttrayan at Magh purnima// > > What a confusion! Please not that you are mixing Lunar Months (with the words Makha Purnima), Nakshtra masa (Ayanams Magha) and Solar moths (Uttarayana) . Why you want to club Nakshatra Chakra with Lunar months? Ayana is Solar or Lunar in nature? > > Sreendhji, Uttaryan can be both solar like makar sankranti and lunar like Poush purnima, when we celebrate maagha snana even now. Maagha snana used to be celebrated during the vedanga jyotish period on magha sukla pratipada.During the sidhanta jyotish period it was shifted to Poush purnima. This has been dealt by SB dixit too. > > > > //> The change in equinox or solstice seems togo by the validity of the lunar tithi.this could be the reason why we do not have Bhariniadi series and a jump from Kritikadi to Aswiniadi.// > > What do you mean by those words? It doesn't make any sense to me as of now - can you please elaborate and explain what you wanted to say? > > Sreenadhji,because our festivals are basically lunar, and lunar tithi can fluctuate for one month due to adhimas, It can remain uttaryan for a very long time, upto even 2000 years.then only we may switch over the uttarayan or vishuvat one whole or one whole pakshya. That could be the reason we jumped from Kritikadi to Aswinadi, without having Bhariniadi series, as you have pointed out.. > > Love and regards, > > Sreenadh > > Where? Please provide the quote - without which such 'opinions' are not valid. > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Hari Malla > > > > > > > > ----- Forwarded Message ---- > > Sreenadh sreesog@ > > ancient_indian_ astrology > > Saturday, April 18, 2009 12:43:51 PM > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Krittikadi > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Hari Malla ji, > > //let me remind my friends that there is mention of the vernal equinox where we have the head of the (Purusha?) in the vedas.// > > Where? Please provide the quote - without which such 'opinions' are not valid. > > //With the litle reading I have done, I have come to know that in the ancient time the months were mainly lunar months.// > > Where are the quotes? And why you are being so sure on this without evidence? Do you want to argue that " Tapa, Tapasya, Madhu, Madhava etc " are Lunar months and not solar?! Do you want to argue that Chaitra, Vaisakaha etc months are Lunar in nature and there nevar existed solar and lunar months with the same name (Lunar Chaitra and Solar Chaitra!) as AKK argues? Do you want to argue that Nakshatra (Lunar) moths with 27 days each existed even though they didn't had a name for those Nakshatra masas (Siderial months)? > > //In Atharva samhita ,we read of 'Ayanam maghaa'.From this, it is clear that firstly there was Uttrayan at Magh purnima// > > What a confusion! Please not that you are mixing Lunar Months (with the words Makha Purnima), Nakshtra masa (Ayanams Magha) and Solar moths (Uttarayana) . Why you want to club Nakshatra Chakra with Lunar months? Ayana is Solar or Lunar in nature? > > //> The change in equinox or solstice seems togo by the validity of the lunar tithi.this could be the reason why we do not have Bhariniadi series and a jump from Kritikadi to Aswiniadi.// > > What do you mean by those words? It doesn't make any sense to me as of now - can you please elaborate and explain what you wanted to say? > > Love and regards, > > Sreenadh > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Hari Malla harimalla@ .> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sreenadhji,Bhattach ayaji, > > > I am happy our discussiion is taking a interesting turn.I am glad I have come in a critical juncture.Through our mutual cooperation, we may solve the century long problem of calender reform.I find Bhatacharyaji is senior person with a balanced view.Sreenadhji is also quite a careful person with critical power of analaysis.Sunil Nairji seems to be philanthropist respecting the global nature of the vedic culture which was clear from his last writing on vedic culture. > > > Let us be without prejudices so we all arrive at the truth.As I have already written in my last mail,let me remind my friends that there is mention of the vernal equinox where we have the head of the in the vedas. > > > With the litle reading I have done, I have come to know that in the ancient time the months were mainly lunar months.The seasons were also lunar as we see that during the vedanga jyotish period the months started from magh sukla pratipada as the winter solstice. In Atharva samhita ,we read of 'Ayanam maghaa'.From this, it is clear that firstly there was Uttrayan at Magh purnima,then it was shifted to magh sukla pratipada when mid aslesha and dhanistha has been mentioned by Braha mihir. Then during the early centuries of the christian era, we find Makar sakranti and poush purnima as the new solstice even as mentioned by Barahmihir in Brihad samhita. This last we are still celebrating. > > > The change in equinox or solstice seems togo by the validity of the lunar tithi.this could be the reason why we do not have Bhariniadi series and a jump from Kritikadi to Aswiniadi. > > > so let us please analyse it carefully, the facts we have come to know from the ancient texts.Thank you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Forwarded Message ---- > > Sreenadh sreesog@ > > ancient_indian_ astrology > > Saturday, April 18, 2009 12:43:51 PM > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Krittikadi > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Hari Malla ji, > > //let me remind my friends that there is mention of the vernal equinox where we have the head of the (Purusha?) in the vedas.// > > Where? Please provide the quote - without which such 'opinions' are not valid. > > //With the litle reading I have done, I have come to know that in the ancient time the months were mainly lunar months.// > > Where are the quotes? And why you are being so sure on this without evidence? Do you want to argue that " Tapa, Tapasya, Madhu, Madhava etc " are Lunar months and not solar?! Do you want to argue that Chaitra, Vaisakaha etc months are Lunar in nature and there nevar existed solar and lunar months with the same name (Lunar Chaitra and Solar Chaitra!) as AKK argues? Do you want to argue that Nakshatra (Lunar) moths with 27 days each existed even though they didn't had a name for those Nakshatra masas (Siderial months)? > > //In Atharva samhita ,we read of 'Ayanam maghaa'.From this, it is clear that firstly there was Uttrayan at Magh purnima// > > What a confusion! Please not that you are mixing Lunar Months (with the words Makha Purnima), Nakshtra masa (Ayanams Magha) and Solar moths (Uttarayana) . Why you want to club Nakshatra Chakra with Lunar months? Ayana is Solar or Lunar in nature? > > //> The change in equinox or solstice seems togo by the validity of the lunar tithi.this could be the reason why we do not have Bhariniadi series and a jump from Kritikadi to Aswiniadi.// > > What do you mean by those words? It doesn't make any sense to me as of now - can you please elaborate and explain what you wanted to say? > > Love and regards, > > Sreenadh > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Hari Malla harimalla@ .> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sreenadhji,Bhattach ayaji, > > > I am happy our discussiion is taking a interesting turn.I am glad I have come in a critical juncture.Through our mutual cooperation, we may solve the century long problem of calender reform.I find Bhatacharyaji is senior person with a balanced view.Sreenadhji is also quite a careful person with critical power of analaysis.Sunil Nairji seems to be philanthropist respecting the global nature of the vedic culture which was clear from his last writing on vedic culture. > > > Let us be without prejudices so we all arrive at the truth.As I have already written in my last mail,let me remind my friends that there is mention of the vernal equinox where we have the head of the in the vedas. > > > With the litle reading I have done, I have come to know that in the ancient time the months were mainly lunar months.The seasons were also lunar as we see that during the vedanga jyotish period the months started from magh sukla pratipada as the winter solstice. In Atharva samhita ,we read of 'Ayanam maghaa'.From this, it is clear that firstly there was Uttrayan at Magh purnima,then it was shifted to magh sukla pratipada when mid aslesha and dhanistha has been mentioned by Braha mihir. Then during the early centuries of the christian era, we find Makar sakranti and poush purnima as the new solstice even as mentioned by Barahmihir in Brihad samhita. This last we are still celebrating. > > > The change in equinox or solstice seems togo by the validity of the lunar tithi.this could be the reason why we do not have Bhariniadi series and a jump from Kritikadi to Aswiniadi. > > > so let us please analyse it carefully, the facts we have come to know from the ancient texts.Thank you > > > --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2009 Report Share Posted April 18, 2009 Dear Chakraborty ji, //BTW, good to know about Chinga> month (Month of Leo). In Bengali, lion would be called Singha.> quite close.// In Malayalam also it is Simha only, the word came from Sanskrit (Simha = Lion). But it is just that in local tongue Simha became Chinga (since in old malayalam script Vattezhuttu has only less letters and no letters for Si and Ha) So it is not just 'close' but just 'same' - i.e. the word Simha coming to Bengali, Assamese and Malayalam from Sanskrit. Now coming to having a year beginning from the begining of the month Leo (new year in Leo), that tradition too seems to be same for Bengal, Assam and Kerala, even though the names differ. In Kerala this year is known as 'Kolla Varsha' and is the most popular (or better the only) Keralite system used for year calculation. The year name is Kolla Varsha and the months are Chingam (Leo), Kanni (Virgo), Tulam (Libra), Vrischikam (Scorpio), Dhanu (Sagetterious) etc etc. I don't know about the system followed in Bangal or Assam but it could be samilar. The base reasons for such year starts could be astonomical or historical. (Chandrahari has done quite some studies about the year start date of Kollam Era used in Kerala)Love and regards,Sreenadh , "Chakraborty, PL" <CHAKRABORTYP2 wrote:>> Dear Sreenadh-ji,> > Please take it easy. We are lesser mortals, just describing> what comes in mind.> > You asked about which Samkranti I was referring to....> > The answer was available in previous paragraph itself.... In our > part of world, we care about 3 Samkranti-s only and all (I guess)> are Solar ones...between signs> > Chaitra Samkranti ( Vishu / Rongali Bihu etc) and start of Bengali > and Assamese New Year.> > Ashwin Samkranti - (Kartik) Kati Bihu or Kongali Bihu > Makar / Paush Samkranti - Magh (Bhogali) Bihu / Nabanna> > Thanks for telling about Onam. BTW, good to know about Chinga> month (Month of Leo). In Bengali, lion would be called Singha.> quite close.> > Please note that I am not making any fuss about it. The topic is> interesting.> > That's all.> > regards> > P L Chakraborty > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2009 Report Share Posted April 18, 2009 sorry, dear, i just jumped into this without knowing the full context of the debate, much less understanding it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2009 Report Share Posted April 18, 2009 //let me remind my friends that there is mention of the vernal equinox where we have the head of the (Purusha?) in the vedas.// Where? Please provide the quote - without which such 'opinions' are not valid. Sreenadhji, I have provided, the quotes of SB Dixit in my last postng. //With the litle reading I have done, I have come to know that in the ancient time the months were mainly lunar months.// Where are the quotes? And why you are being so sure on this without evidence? Do you want to argue that "Tapa, Tapasya, Madhu, Madhava etc" are Lunar months and not solar?! Do you want to argue that Chaitra, Vaisakaha etc months are Lunar in nature and there nevar existed solar and lunar months with the same name (Lunar Chaitra and Solar Chaitra!) as AKK argues? Do you want to argue that Nakshatra (Lunar) moths with 27 days each existed even though they didn't had a name for those Nakshatra masas (Siderial months)? This is quite obvious. Madhu madhav are lunar months.The reason is that the word maasa is used synonimously in the vedas for both month and the moon. Proving the lackof solar months. Lunar chaitra only was there previously and solar chaitra came into being only after the advent of rashis mesh Vrish etc., i.e. after the sidhant jyotish period started. The names of the nakshyatras months of 27 days are not commonly known to us even if they existed.The nakshyatra months have no relation with the seasons. they are connected to the nakshyatras only, i.e. are sidereal.The stars do not affect us directly. If they affected us then we would have to consider total of 88 constellations intead of only 12 rashis out of them. //In Atharva samhita ,we read of 'Ayanam maghaa'.From this, it is clear that firstly there was Uttrayan at Magh purnima// What a confusion! Please not that you are mixing Lunar Months (with the words Makha Purnima), Nakshtra masa (Ayanams Magha) and Solar moths (Uttarayana) . Why you want to club Nakshatra Chakra with Lunar months? Ayana is Solar or Lunar in nature? Sreendhji, Uttaryan can be both solar like makar sankranti and lunar like Poush purnima, when we celebrate maagha snana even now. Maagha snana used to be celebrated during the vedanga jyotish period on magha sukla pratipada.During the sidhanta jyotish period it was shifted to Poush purnima. This has been dealt by SB dixit too. //> The change in equinox or solstice seems togo by the validity of the lunar tithi.this could be the reason why we do not have Bhariniadi series and a jump from Kritikadi to Aswiniadi.// What do you mean by those words? It doesn't make any sense to me as of now - can you please elaborate and explain what you wanted to say? Sreenadhji,because our festivals are basically lunar, and lunar tithi can fluctuate for one month due to adhimas, It can remain uttaryan for a very long time, upto even 2000 years.then only we may switch over the uttarayan or vishuvat one whole or one whole pakshya. That could be the reason we jumped from Kritikadi to Aswinadi, without having Bhariniadi series, as you have pointed out.. Love and regards,Sreenadh ancient_indian_ astrology, Hari Malla ----- Forwarded Message ----Sreenadh <sreesog Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 12:43:51 PM Re: Krittikadi Dear Hari Malla ji,//let me remind my friends that there is mention of the vernal equinox where we have the head of the (Purusha?) in the vedas.// Where? Please provide the quote - without which such 'opinions' are not valid. //With the litle reading I have done, I have come to know that in the ancient time the months were mainly lunar months.// Where are the quotes? And why you are being so sure on this without evidence? Do you want to argue that "Tapa, Tapasya, Madhu, Madhava etc" are Lunar months and not solar?! Do you want to argue that Chaitra, Vaisakaha etc months are Lunar in nature and there nevar existed solar and lunar months with the same name (Lunar Chaitra and Solar Chaitra!) as AKK argues? Do you want to argue that Nakshatra (Lunar) moths with 27 days each existed even though they didn't had a name for those Nakshatra masas (Siderial months)? //In Atharva samhita ,we read of 'Ayanam maghaa'.From this, it is clear that firstly there was Uttrayan at Magh purnima// What a confusion! Please not that you are mixing Lunar Months (with the words Makha Purnima), Nakshtra masa (Ayanams Magha) and Solar moths (Uttarayana) . Why you want to club Nakshatra Chakra with Lunar months? Ayana is Solar or Lunar in nature?//> The change in equinox or solstice seems togo by the validity of the lunar tithi.this could be the reason why we do not have Bhariniadi series and a jump from Kritikadi to Aswiniadi.// What do you mean by those words? It doesn't make any sense to me as of now - can you please elaborate and explain what you wanted to say? Love and regards,Sreenadh ancient_indian_ astrology, Hari Malla <harimalla@.. .> wrote:>> Dear Sreenadhji,Bhattach ayaji,> I am happy our discussiion is taking a interesting turn.I am glad I have come in a critical juncture.Through our mutual cooperation, we may solve the century long problem of calender reform.I find Bhatacharyaji is senior person with a balanced view.Sreenadhji is also quite a careful person with critical power of analaysis.Sunil Nairji seems to be philanthropist respecting the global nature of the vedic culture which was clear from his last writing on vedic culture.> Let us be without prejudices so we all arrive at the truth.As I have already written in my last mail,let me remind my friends that there is mention of the vernal equinox where we have the head of the in the vedas.> With the litle reading I have done, I have come to know that in the ancient time the months were mainly lunar months.The seasons were also lunar as we see that during the vedanga jyotish period the months started from magh sukla pratipada as the winter solstice. In Atharva samhita ,we read of 'Ayanam maghaa'.From this, it is clear that firstly there was Uttrayan at Magh purnima,then it was shifted to magh sukla pratipada when mid aslesha and dhanistha has been mentioned by Braha mihir. Then during the early centuries of the christian era, we find Makar sakranti and poush purnima as the new solstice even as mentioned by Barahmihir in Brihad samhita. This last we are still celebrating.> The change in equinox or solstice seems togo by the validity of the lunar tithi.this could be the reason why we do not have Bhariniadi series and a jump from Kritikadi to Aswiniadi.> so let us please analyse it carefully, the facts we have come to know from the ancient texts.Thank you ----- Forwarded Message ----Sreenadh <sreesog Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 12:43:51 PM Re: Krittikadi Dear Hari Malla ji, //let me remind my friends that there is mention of the vernal equinox where we have the head of the (Purusha?) in the vedas.// Where? Please provide the quote - without which such 'opinions' are not valid. //With the litle reading I have done, I have come to know that in the ancient time the months were mainly lunar months.// Where are the quotes? And why you are being so sure on this without evidence? Do you want to argue that "Tapa, Tapasya, Madhu, Madhava etc" are Lunar months and not solar?! Do you want to argue that Chaitra, Vaisakaha etc months are Lunar in nature and there nevar existed solar and lunar months with the same name (Lunar Chaitra and Solar Chaitra!) as AKK argues? Do you want to argue that Nakshatra (Lunar) moths with 27 days each existed even though they didn't had a name for those Nakshatra masas (Siderial months)? //In Atharva samhita ,we read of 'Ayanam maghaa'.From this, it is clear that firstly there was Uttrayan at Magh purnima// What a confusion! Please not that you are mixing Lunar Months (with the words Makha Purnima), Nakshtra masa (Ayanams Magha) and Solar moths (Uttarayana) . Why you want to club Nakshatra Chakra with Lunar months? Ayana is Solar or Lunar in nature?//> The change in equinox or solstice seems togo by the validity of the lunar tithi.this could be the reason why we do not have Bhariniadi series and a jump from Kritikadi to Aswiniadi.// What do you mean by those words? It doesn't make any sense to me as of now - can you please elaborate and explain what you wanted to say? Love and regards,Sreenadh ancient_indian_ astrology, Hari Malla <harimalla@.. .> wrote:>> Dear Sreenadhji,Bhattach ayaji,> I am happy our discussiion is taking a interesting turn.I am glad I have come in a critical juncture.Through our mutual cooperation, we may solve the century long problem of calender reform.I find Bhatacharyaji is senior person with a balanced view.Sreenadhji is also quite a careful person with critical power of analaysis.Sunil Nairji seems to be philanthropist respecting the global nature of the vedic culture which was clear from his last writing on vedic culture.> Let us be without prejudices so we all arrive at the truth.As I have already written in my last mail,let me remind my friends that there is mention of the vernal equinox where we have the head of the in the vedas.> With the litle reading I have done, I have come to know that in the ancient time the months were mainly lunar months.The seasons were also lunar as we see that during the vedanga jyotish period the months started from magh sukla pratipada as the winter solstice. In Atharva samhita ,we read of 'Ayanam maghaa'.From this, it is clear that firstly there was Uttrayan at Magh purnima,then it was shifted to magh sukla pratipada when mid aslesha and dhanistha has been mentioned by Braha mihir. Then during the early centuries of the christian era, we find Makar sakranti and poush purnima as the new solstice even as mentioned by Barahmihir in Brihad samhita. This last we are still celebrating.> The change in equinox or solstice seems togo by the validity of the lunar tithi.this could be the reason why we do not have Bhariniadi series and a jump from Kritikadi to Aswiniadi.> so let us please analyse it carefully, the facts we have come to know from the ancient texts.Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2009 Report Share Posted April 18, 2009 Shri Vinita Kumar ji, I do not know how much you had understood the debate.But What you said did carry value and was true.Leave the dates to historians.but What you say is true.Aswini is linked to vernal eqinox and the horse simultaneously.There is no doubt about that.since a long time it has remained as such.The reference is irrefutable.Leave the dates to the historians. Regards, Hari Malla vinita kumar <shankar_mamta Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 4:35:02 PM Re: Krittikadi sorry, dear, i just jumped into this without knowing the full context of the debate, much less understanding it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2009 Report Share Posted April 18, 2009 dear hari malla ji I think u r again confused with hindu zodiac with seasons ,it is untrue and it is a lie which ppl like kaul want to push .where as it is abt creation .that is why kala purusha and all that concept happened .kala purusha head cannot change every day ,it has to b a fixed one atleast for a mathematical purpose tho we dont know when kala or time originated and hence yuga concept etc .Kala purusha the time personified has to b eternal that is why the concept brahma ( lord of creations ) and anantha ( infinity ) come and taken as 2 points ,one abov and one below in universe and taken as whole universe is in anda ( egg ) shape and rasi chakra is a plane in between with 8 directions where sun ecliptical path is there .And that is hindu rasi chakra or what u call zodiac in english and only grahas r considered means not planets in english means which can capture or control u ( grahanam para kotya --- means planets may b in crores of numbrs but we take only 7 planets and rahu ,ketu ) vedic ppl has ( be it indus or vedic or non vedic or tantrik ) has so many calenders in use and each has its own purpose ,and dont confuse or need not break our head with affinity to one and opposing other . first try to find which system we need to follow and follow such calenders ,a uniform calender can b a political one or a church one only . Again i am afraid ur over enthusism is upsetting our main aim of this grp which is astrology and its diffrnt aspect s we r not worried at present with kaulians calenders if after 10 K yrs makara sankranthi happening with hot season it is non of my problem at least for now ,if there is any religious things involved in it also then we astrologers are helpless as no one accepted me or any one in this grp as dharmaacharyas ( head preist s or gurus ) ,so that we can issue a papal decree and solv that problem of u . all this i am writing because u again clubbing with seasons and splitting hair which is not our duty and even majority in this grp is not interested tho later kaulians can say sunil nair run away frm discussions .right now we r not in a mood to argue and prove again again which is solar calender which is lunar calender etc ,tho it seems u hav ample of time hope u talk astrology here rgrds sunil nair , Hari Malla <harimalla wrote:>> > > //let me remind my friends that there is mention of the vernal equinox where we have the head of the (Purusha?) in the vedas.//> > Sreenadhji, I have provided, the quotes of SB Dixit in my last postng.> > //With the litle reading I have done, I have come to know that in the ancient time the months were mainly lunar months.//> Where are the quotes? And why you are being so sure on this without evidence? Do you want to argue that "Tapa, Tapasya, Madhu, Madhava etc" are Lunar months and not solar?! Do you want to argue that Chaitra, Vaisakaha etc months are Lunar in nature and there nevar existed solar and lunar months with the same name (Lunar Chaitra and Solar Chaitra!) as AKK argues? Do you want to argue that Nakshatra (Lunar) moths with 27 days each existed even though they didn't had a name for those Nakshatra masas (Siderial months)? > This is quite obvious. Madhu madhav are lunar months.The reason is that the word maasa is used synonimously in the vedas for both month and the moon. Proving the lackof solar months. Lunar chaitra only was there previously and solar chaitra came into being only after the advent of rashis mesh Vrish etc., i.e. after the sidhant jyotish period started. The names of the nakshyatras months of 27 days are not commonly known to us even if they existed.The nakshyatra months have no relation with the seasons. they are connected to the nakshyatras only, i.e. are sidereal.The stars do not affect us directly. If they affected us then we would have to consider total of 88 constellations intead of only 12 rashis out of them.> > //In Atharva samhita ,we read of 'Ayanam maghaa'.From this, it is clear that firstly there was Uttrayan at Magh purnima//> What a confusion! Please not that you are mixing Lunar Months (with the words Makha Purnima), Nakshtra masa (Ayanams Magha) and Solar moths (Uttarayana) . Why you want to club Nakshatra Chakra with Lunar months? Ayana is Solar or Lunar in nature?> Sreendhji, Uttaryan can be both solar like makar sankranti and lunar like Poush purnima, when we celebrate maagha snana even now. Maagha snana used to be celebrated during the vedanga jyotish period on magha sukla pratipada.During the sidhanta jyotish period it was shifted to Poush purnima. This has been dealt by SB dixit too.> > //> The change in equinox or solstice seems togo by the validity of the lunar tithi.this could be the reason why we do not have Bhariniadi series and a jump from Kritikadi to Aswiniadi.//> What do you mean by those words? It doesn't make any sense to me as of now - can you please elaborate and explain what you wanted to say? > Sreenadhji,because our festivals are basically lunar, and lunar tithi can fluctuate for one month due to adhimas, It can remain uttaryan for a very long time, upto even 2000 years.then only we may switch over the uttarayan or vishuvat one whole or one whole pakshya. That could be the reason we jumped from Kritikadi to Aswinadi, without having Bhariniadi series, as you have pointed out..> Love and regards,> Sreenadh> Where? Please provide the quote - without which such 'opinions' are not valid. > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Hari Malla > > > > ----- Forwarded Message ----> Sreenadh sreesog > Saturday, April 18, 2009 12:43:51 PM> Re: Krittikadi> > > > > > Dear Hari Malla ji,> //let me remind my friends that there is mention of the vernal equinox where we have the head of the (Purusha?) in the vedas.//> Where? Please provide the quote - without which such 'opinions' are not valid. > //With the litle reading I have done, I have come to know that in the ancient time the months were mainly lunar months.//> Where are the quotes? And why you are being so sure on this without evidence? Do you want to argue that "Tapa, Tapasya, Madhu, Madhava etc" are Lunar months and not solar?! Do you want to argue that Chaitra, Vaisakaha etc months are Lunar in nature and there nevar existed solar and lunar months with the same name (Lunar Chaitra and Solar Chaitra!) as AKK argues? Do you want to argue that Nakshatra (Lunar) moths with 27 days each existed even though they didn't had a name for those Nakshatra masas (Siderial months)? > //In Atharva samhita ,we read of 'Ayanam maghaa'.From this, it is clear that firstly there was Uttrayan at Magh purnima//> What a confusion! Please not that you are mixing Lunar Months (with the words Makha Purnima), Nakshtra masa (Ayanams Magha) and Solar moths (Uttarayana) . Why you want to club Nakshatra Chakra with Lunar months? Ayana is Solar or Lunar in nature?> //> The change in equinox or solstice seems togo by the validity of the lunar tithi.this could be the reason why we do not have Bhariniadi series and a jump from Kritikadi to Aswiniadi.//> What do you mean by those words? It doesn't make any sense to me as of now - can you please elaborate and explain what you wanted to say? > Love and regards,> Sreenadh> > ancient_indian_ astrology, Hari Malla harimalla@ .> wrote:> >> > Dear Sreenadhji,Bhattach ayaji,> > I am happy our discussiion is taking a interesting turn.I am glad I have come in a critical juncture.Through our mutual cooperation, we may solve the century long problem of calender reform.I find Bhatacharyaji is senior person with a balanced view.Sreenadhji is also quite a careful person with critical power of analaysis.Sunil Nairji seems to be philanthropist respecting the global nature of the vedic culture which was clear from his last writing on vedic culture.> > Let us be without prejudices so we all arrive at the truth.As I have already written in my last mail,let me remind my friends that there is mention of the vernal equinox where we have the head of the in the vedas.> > With the litle reading I have done, I have come to know that in the ancient time the months were mainly lunar months.The seasons were also lunar as we see that during the vedanga jyotish period the months started from magh sukla pratipada as the winter solstice. In Atharva samhita ,we read of 'Ayanam maghaa'.From this, it is clear that firstly there was Uttrayan at Magh purnima,then it was shifted to magh sukla pratipada when mid aslesha and dhanistha has been mentioned by Braha mihir. Then during the early centuries of the christian era, we find Makar sakranti and poush purnima as the new solstice even as mentioned by Barahmihir in Brihad samhita. This last we are still celebrating.> > The change in equinox or solstice seems togo by the validity of the lunar tithi.this could be the reason why we do not have Bhariniadi series and a jump from Kritikadi to Aswiniadi.> > so let us please analyse it carefully, the facts we have come to know from the ancient texts.Thank you> > > > > > > ----- Forwarded Message ----> Sreenadh sreesog > Saturday, April 18, 2009 12:43:51 PM> Re: Krittikadi> > > > > > Dear Hari Malla ji, > //let me remind my friends that there is mention of the vernal equinox where we have the head of the (Purusha?) in the vedas.//> Where? Please provide the quote - without which such 'opinions' are not valid. > //With the litle reading I have done, I have come to know that in the ancient time the months were mainly lunar months.//> Where are the quotes? And why you are being so sure on this without evidence? Do you want to argue that "Tapa, Tapasya, Madhu, Madhava etc" are Lunar months and not solar?! Do you want to argue that Chaitra, Vaisakaha etc months are Lunar in nature and there nevar existed solar and lunar months with the same name (Lunar Chaitra and Solar Chaitra!) as AKK argues? Do you want to argue that Nakshatra (Lunar) moths with 27 days each existed even though they didn't had a name for those Nakshatra masas (Siderial months)? > //In Atharva samhita ,we read of 'Ayanam maghaa'.From this, it is clear that firstly there was Uttrayan at Magh purnima//> What a confusion! Please not that you are mixing Lunar Months (with the words Makha Purnima), Nakshtra masa (Ayanams Magha) and Solar moths (Uttarayana) . Why you want to club Nakshatra Chakra with Lunar months? Ayana is Solar or Lunar in nature?> //> The change in equinox or solstice seems togo by the validity of the lunar tithi.this could be the reason why we do not have Bhariniadi series and a jump from Kritikadi to Aswiniadi.//> What do you mean by those words? It doesn't make any sense to me as of now - can you please elaborate and explain what you wanted to say? > Love and regards,> Sreenadh> > ancient_indian_ astrology, Hari Malla harimalla@ .> wrote:> >> > Dear Sreenadhji,Bhattach ayaji,> > I am happy our discussiion is taking a interesting turn.I am glad I have come in a critical juncture.Through our mutual cooperation, we may solve the century long problem of calender reform.I find Bhatacharyaji is senior person with a balanced view.Sreenadhji is also quite a careful person with critical power of analaysis.Sunil Nairji seems to be philanthropist respecting the global nature of the vedic culture which was clear from his last writing on vedic culture.> > Let us be without prejudices so we all arrive at the truth.As I have already written in my last mail,let me remind my friends that there is mention of the vernal equinox where we have the head of the in the vedas.> > With the litle reading I have done, I have come to know that in the ancient time the months were mainly lunar months.The seasons were also lunar as we see that during the vedanga jyotish period the months started from magh sukla pratipada as the winter solstice. In Atharva samhita ,we read of 'Ayanam maghaa'.From this, it is clear that firstly there was Uttrayan at Magh purnima,then it was shifted to magh sukla pratipada when mid aslesha and dhanistha has been mentioned by Braha mihir. Then during the early centuries of the christian era, we find Makar sakranti and poush purnima as the new solstice even as mentioned by Barahmihir in Brihad samhita. This last we are still celebrating.> > The change in equinox or solstice seems togo by the validity of the lunar tithi.this could be the reason why we do not have Bhariniadi series and a jump from Kritikadi to Aswiniadi.> > so let us please analyse it carefully, the facts we have come to know from the ancient texts.Thank you> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2009 Report Share Posted April 18, 2009 Dear Sunil Nairji, Thank you for your frank opinion.I liked the way you have mentioned about two points Brahma and Ananta.This is quite true.Brahmah's life is limited, but ananta is unlimited.I think Brahma is connected with seasons and we have to change the uttaryan form time to time. Ananta is nirayan. Nirayan which is Vishnu or Shiva whose life is unlimited.but you also know that to reach God or reality, we have to coordinate the three ie, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva after a long time.Thus the concept of manawantar and kalpa is brought.Manwantar is when we shift one whole month to coordinate the three, Brahmah, vishnu and Shiva.The reason we have to ache our head is for this when th coordination is lost. If we don't change the manawantar when the coordination is lost, then all our dahrma and jyotish do not tally.It is time to do so, if we are sincere. Well if we are not in the mood,then we can do when the mood comes.Thank you. Regards, sunil nair <astro_tellerkerala Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 6:11:32 PM Fw: Re: Krittikadi dear hari malla ji I think u r again confused with hindu zodiac with seasons ,it is untrue and it is a lie which ppl like kaul want to push .where as it is abt creation .that is why kala purusha and all that concept happened .kala purusha head cannot change every day ,it has to b a fixed one atleast for a mathematical purpose tho we dont know when kala or time originated and hence yuga concept etc .Kala purusha the time personified has to b eternal that is why the concept brahma ( lord of creations ) and anantha ( infinity ) come and taken as 2 points ,one abov and one below in universe and taken as whole universe is in anda ( egg ) shape and rasi chakra is a plane in between with 8 directions where sun ecliptical path is there .And that is hindu rasi chakra or what u call zodiac in english and only grahas r considered means not planets in english means which can capture or control u ( grahanam para kotya --- means planets may b in crores of numbrs but we take only 7 planets and rahu ,ketu ) vedic ppl has ( be it indus or vedic or non vedic or tantrik ) has so many calenders in use and each has its own purpose ,and dont confuse or need not break our head with affinity to one and opposing other . first try to find which system we need to follow and follow such calenders ,a uniform calender can b a political one or a church one only . Again i am afraid ur over enthusism is upsetting our main aim of this grp which is astrology and its diffrnt aspect s we r not worried at present with kaulians calenders if after 10 K yrs makara sankranthi happening with hot season it is non of my problem at least for now ,if there is any religious things involved in it also then we astrologers are helpless as no one accepted me or any one in this grp as dharmaacharyas ( head preist s or gurus ) ,so that we can issue a papal decree and solv that problem of u . all this i am writing because u again clubbing with seasons and splitting hair which is not our duty and even majority in this grp is not interested tho later kaulians can say sunil nair run away frm discussions .right now we r not in a mood to argue and prove again again which is solar calender which is lunar calender etc ,tho it seems u hav ample of time hope u talk astrology here rgrds sunil nair ancient_indian_ astrology, Hari Malla <harimalla@.. .> wrote:>> > > //let me remind my friends that there is mention of the vernal equinox where we have the head of the (Purusha?) in the vedas.//> > Sreenadhji, I have provided, the quotes of SB Dixit in my last postng.> > //With the litle reading I have done, I have come to know that in the ancient time the months were mainly lunar months.//> Where are the quotes? And why you are being so sure on this without evidence? Do you want to argue that "Tapa, Tapasya, Madhu, Madhava etc" are Lunar months and not solar?! Do you want to argue that Chaitra, Vaisakaha etc months are Lunar in nature and there nevar existed solar and lunar months with the same name (Lunar Chaitra and Solar Chaitra!) as AKK argues? Do you want to argue that Nakshatra (Lunar) moths with 27 days each existed even though they didn't had a name for those Nakshatra masas (Siderial months)? > This is quite obvious. Madhu madhav are lunar months.The reason is that the word maasa is used synonimously in the vedas for both month and the moon. Proving the lackof solar months. Lunar chaitra only was there previously and solar chaitra came into being only after the advent of rashis mesh Vrish etc., i.e. after the sidhant jyotish period started. The names of the nakshyatras months of 27 days are not commonly known to us even if they existed.The nakshyatra months have no relation with the seasons. they are connected to the nakshyatras only, i.e. are sidereal.The stars do not affect us directly. If they affected us then we would have to consider total of 88 constellations intead of only 12 rashis out of them.> > //In Atharva samhita ,we read of 'Ayanam maghaa'.From this, it is clear that firstly there was Uttrayan at Magh purnima//> What a confusion! Please not that you are mixing Lunar Months (with the words Makha Purnima), Nakshtra masa (Ayanams Magha) and Solar moths (Uttarayana) . Why you want to club Nakshatra Chakra with Lunar months? Ayana is Solar or Lunar in nature?> Sreendhji, Uttaryan can be both solar like makar sankranti and lunar like Poush purnima, when we celebrate maagha snana even now. Maagha snana used to be celebrated during the vedanga jyotish period on magha sukla pratipada.During the sidhanta jyotish period it was shifted to Poush purnima. This has been dealt by SB dixit too.> > //> The change in equinox or solstice seems togo by the validity of the lunar tithi.this could be the reason why we do not have Bhariniadi series and a jump from Kritikadi to Aswiniadi.//> What do you mean by those words? It doesn't make any sense to me as of now - can you please elaborate and explain what you wanted to say? > Sreenadhji,because our festivals are basically lunar, and lunar tithi can fluctuate for one month due to adhimas, It can remain uttaryan for a very long time, upto even 2000 years.then only we may switch over the uttarayan or vishuvat one whole or one whole pakshya. That could be the reason we jumped from Kritikadi to Aswinadi, without having Bhariniadi series, as you have pointed out..> Love and regards,> Sreenadh> Where? Please provide the quote - without which such 'opinions' are not valid. > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Hari Malla > > > > ----- Forwarded Message ----> Sreenadh sreesog ancient_indian_ astrology> Saturday, April 18, 2009 12:43:51 PM> [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Krittikadi> > > > > > Dear Hari Malla ji,> //let me remind my friends that there is mention of the vernal equinox where we have the head of the (Purusha?) in the vedas.//> Where? Please provide the quote - without which such 'opinions' are not valid. > //With the litle reading I have done, I have come to know that in the ancient time the months were mainly lunar months.//> Where are the quotes? And why you are being so sure on this without evidence? Do you want to argue that "Tapa, Tapasya, Madhu, Madhava etc" are Lunar months and not solar?! Do you want to argue that Chaitra, Vaisakaha etc months are Lunar in nature and there nevar existed solar and lunar months with the same name (Lunar Chaitra and Solar Chaitra!) as AKK argues? Do you want to argue that Nakshatra (Lunar) moths with 27 days each existed even though they didn't had a name for those Nakshatra masas (Siderial months)? > //In Atharva samhita ,we read of 'Ayanam maghaa'.From this, it is clear that firstly there was Uttrayan at Magh purnima//> What a confusion! Please not that you are mixing Lunar Months (with the words Makha Purnima), Nakshtra masa (Ayanams Magha) and Solar moths (Uttarayana) . Why you want to club Nakshatra Chakra with Lunar months? Ayana is Solar or Lunar in nature?> //> The change in equinox or solstice seems togo by the validity of the lunar tithi.this could be the reason why we do not have Bhariniadi series and a jump from Kritikadi to Aswiniadi.//> What do you mean by those words? It doesn't make any sense to me as of now - can you please elaborate and explain what you wanted to say? > Love and regards,> Sreenadh> > ancient_indian_ astrology, Hari Malla harimalla@ .> wrote:> >> > Dear Sreenadhji,Bhattach ayaji,> > I am happy our discussiion is taking a interesting turn.I am glad I have come in a critical juncture.Through our mutual cooperation, we may solve the century long problem of calender reform.I find Bhatacharyaji is senior person with a balanced view.Sreenadhji is also quite a careful person with critical power of analaysis.Sunil Nairji seems to be philanthropist respecting the global nature of the vedic culture which was clear from his last writing on vedic culture.> > Let us be without prejudices so we all arrive at the truth.As I have already written in my last mail,let me remind my friends that there is mention of the vernal equinox where we have the head of the in the vedas.> > With the litle reading I have done, I have come to know that in the ancient time the months were mainly lunar months.The seasons were also lunar as we see that during the vedanga jyotish period the months started from magh sukla pratipada as the winter solstice. In Atharva samhita ,we read of 'Ayanam maghaa'.From this, it is clear that firstly there was Uttrayan at Magh purnima,then it was shifted to magh sukla pratipada when mid aslesha and dhanistha has been mentioned by Braha mihir. Then during the early centuries of the christian era, we find Makar sakranti and poush purnima as the new solstice even as mentioned by Barahmihir in Brihad samhita. This last we are still celebrating.> > The change in equinox or solstice seems togo by the validity of the lunar tithi.this could be the reason why we do not have Bhariniadi series and a jump from Kritikadi to Aswiniadi.> > so let us please analyse it carefully, the facts we have come to know from the ancient texts.Thank you> > > > > > > ----- Forwarded Message ----> Sreenadh sreesog ancient_indian_ astrology> Saturday, April 18, 2009 12:43:51 PM> [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Krittikadi> > > > > > Dear Hari Malla ji, > //let me remind my friends that there is mention of the vernal equinox where we have the head of the (Purusha?) in the vedas.//> Where? Please provide the quote - without which such 'opinions' are not valid. > //With the litle reading I have done, I have come to know that in the ancient time the months were mainly lunar months.//> Where are the quotes? And why you are being so sure on this without evidence? Do you want to argue that "Tapa, Tapasya, Madhu, Madhava etc" are Lunar months and not solar?! Do you want to argue that Chaitra, Vaisakaha etc months are Lunar in nature and there nevar existed solar and lunar months with the same name (Lunar Chaitra and Solar Chaitra!) as AKK argues? Do you want to argue that Nakshatra (Lunar) moths with 27 days each existed even though they didn't had a name for those Nakshatra masas (Siderial months)? > //In Atharva samhita ,we read of 'Ayanam maghaa'.From this, it is clear that firstly there was Uttrayan at Magh purnima//> What a confusion! Please not that you are mixing Lunar Months (with the words Makha Purnima), Nakshtra masa (Ayanams Magha) and Solar moths (Uttarayana) . Why you want to club Nakshatra Chakra with Lunar months? Ayana is Solar or Lunar in nature?> //> The change in equinox or solstice seems togo by the validity of the lunar tithi.this could be the reason why we do not have Bhariniadi series and a jump from Kritikadi to Aswiniadi.//> What do you mean by those words? It doesn't make any sense to me as of now - can you please elaborate and explain what you wanted to say? > Love and regards,> Sreenadh> > ancient_indian_ astrology, Hari Malla harimalla@ .> wrote:> >> > Dear Sreenadhji,Bhattach ayaji,> > I am happy our discussiion is taking a interesting turn.I am glad I have come in a critical juncture.Through our mutual cooperation, we may solve the century long problem of calender reform.I find Bhatacharyaji is senior person with a balanced view.Sreenadhji is also quite a careful person with critical power of analaysis.Sunil Nairji seems to be philanthropist respecting the global nature of the vedic culture which was clear from his last writing on vedic culture.> > Let us be without prejudices so we all arrive at the truth.As I have already written in my last mail,let me remind my friends that there is mention of the vernal equinox where we have the head of the in the vedas.> > With the litle reading I have done, I have come to know that in the ancient time the months were mainly lunar months.The seasons were also lunar as we see that during the vedanga jyotish period the months started from magh sukla pratipada as the winter solstice. In Atharva samhita ,we read of 'Ayanam maghaa'.From this, it is clear that firstly there was Uttrayan at Magh purnima,then it was shifted to magh sukla pratipada when mid aslesha and dhanistha has been mentioned by Braha mihir. Then during the early centuries of the christian era, we find Makar sakranti and poush purnima as the new solstice even as mentioned by Barahmihir in Brihad samhita. This last we are still celebrating.> > The change in equinox or solstice seems togo by the validity of the lunar tithi.this could be the reason why we do not have Bhariniadi series and a jump from Kritikadi to Aswiniadi.> > so let us please analyse it carefully, the facts we have come to know from the ancient texts.Thank you> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2009 Report Share Posted April 18, 2009 hari malla ji now the cat has come out of bag ,means u r not realy after calender and only wanted to taunt astrologers and astrology in the name of calender reforms and it is wat is kaulian agenda it is revealed in this statemnts Brahmah's life is limited, but ananta is unlimited.I think Brahma is connected with seasons and we have to change the uttaryan form time to time. means u and kaul will make enough calenders for whole brahma 's life time with changing sankranthies or is it brahma is some jewish abrahm and his wife saraswathi is yehudian lady sarah and he originated in world around BC 4000 according church and u want to fit in with every hindu era with that time frame ?? one maha yuga has 4 yugas ( satya yuga ,treta yuga ,dwapara yuga and kali yuga where we hav calender ppl like u ) s0 a maha yuga is 43 20000 yrs and 1000 such maha yuga is one kalpa and it is one day in the life of brahma like that 360 kalpa days make one yr in brhma s life and such 120 brahma yrs is supposed as his longitivity so it is 43 20 0000 x 1000 x 360 x 120 yrs == u do calculations so it is good arguemnt to torture astrologers ( that is ur hidden agenda in the name of this lunatic calender ) as u can make calenders for all this yugas by sitting in delhi tho even u dont hav one yr calender right now .( may ask i u ?? R u this kaul himself in new avatar , agendas are so Tallying ) all the best to u and kaul and i am not asking u to go out of this grp ,now already every one is discussing abt my language in various grps and i abused so many gurus ,talking truth for them is abuse and time waisters like u r gr8est contributers to hindu dharma . so let us stop here and i bless u for such calenders and print it circulate as earliest as possible and without u ppl our hindu dharma and gods are at danger .sure u ppl can talk yrs and yrs without any problems but i blv all others value their time as they r not paid for this kind of tasks like u and every mail will add to ur bank account it seems . but you also know that to reach God or reality, we have to coordinate the three ie, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva after a long time. means all of us has waisted our life right ????and no moksha for us rgrds sunil nair This tread is closed and if u post any thing in this subjuct u r at the risk of terminating ur posting previlages , Hari Malla <harimalla wrote:>> Dear Sunil Nairji,> Thank you for your frank opinion.I liked the way you have mentioned about two points Brahma and Ananta.This is quite true.Brahmah's life is limited, but ananta is unlimited.I think Brahma is connected with seasons and we have to change the uttaryan form time to time. Ananta is nirayan. Nirayan which is Vishnu or Shiva whose life is unlimited.but you also know that to reach God or reality, we have to coordinate the three ie, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva after a long time.Thus the concept of manawantar and kalpa is brought.Manwantar is when we shift one whole month to coordinate the three, Brahmah, vishnu and Shiva.The reason we have to ache our head is for this when th coordination is lost. If we don't change the manawantar when the coordination is lost, then all our dahrma and jyotish do not tally.It is time to do so, if we are sincere.> Well if we are not in the mood,then we can do when the mood comes.Thank you.> Regards,> > > > > > ________________________________> sunil nair astro_tellerkerala > Saturday, April 18, 2009 6:11:32 PM> Fw: Re: Krittikadi> > > > > > > dear hari malla ji > I think u r again confused with hindu zodiac with seasons ,it is untrue and it is a lie which ppl like kaul want to push .where as it is abt creation .that is why kala purusha and all that concept happened .kala purusha head cannot change every day ,it has to b a fixed one atleast for a mathematical purpose tho we dont know when kala or time originated and hence yuga concept etc .Kala purusha the time personified has to b eternal that is why the concept brahma ( lord of creations ) and anantha ( infinity ) come and taken as 2 points ,one abov and one below in universe and taken as whole universe is in anda ( egg ) shape and rasi chakra is a plane in between with 8 directions where sun ecliptical path is there .And that is hindu rasi chakra or what u call zodiac in english and only grahas r considered means not planets in english means which can capture or control u ( grahanam para kotya --- means planets may b in crores of numbrs but we take> only 7 planets and rahu ,ketu ) > vedic ppl has ( be it indus or vedic or non vedic or tantrik ) has so many calenders in use and each has its own purpose ,and dont confuse or need not break our head with affinity to one and opposing other .> first try to find which system we need to follow and follow such calenders ,a uniform calender can b a political one or a church one only .> > Again i am afraid ur over enthusism is upsetting our main aim of this grp which is astrology and its diffrnt aspect s> we r not worried at present with kaulians calenders > > if after 10 K yrs makara sankranthi happening with hot season it is non of my problem at least for now ,if there is any religious things involved in it also then we astrologers are helpless as no one accepted me or any one in this grp as dharmaacharyas ( head preist s or gurus ) ,so that we can issue a papal decree and solv that problem of u .> all this i am writing because u again clubbing with seasons and splitting hair which is not our duty and even majority in this grp is not interested tho later kaulians can say sunil nair run away frm discussions .right now we r not in a mood to argue and prove again again which is solar calender which is lunar calender etc ,tho it seems u hav ample of time > > hope u talk astrology here > > rgrds sunil nair > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Hari Malla harimalla@ .> wrote:> >> > > > > > //let me remind my friends that there is mention of the vernal equinox where we have the head of the (Purusha?) in the vedas.//> > > > Sreenadhji, I have provided, the quotes of SB Dixit in my last postng.> > > > //With the litle reading I have done, I have come to know that in the ancient time the months were mainly lunar months.//> > Where are the quotes? And why you are being so sure on this without evidence? Do you want to argue that "Tapa, Tapasya, Madhu, Madhava etc" are Lunar months and not solar?! Do you want to argue that Chaitra, Vaisakaha etc months are Lunar in nature and there nevar existed solar and lunar months with the same name (Lunar Chaitra and Solar Chaitra!) as AKK argues? Do you want to argue that Nakshatra (Lunar) moths with 27 days each existed even though they didn't had a name for those Nakshatra masas (Siderial months)? > > This is quite obvious. Madhu madhav are lunar months.The reason is that the word maasa is used synonimously in the vedas for both month and the moon. Proving the lackof solar months. Lunar chaitra only was there previously and solar chaitra came into being only after the advent of rashis mesh Vrish etc., i.e. after the sidhant jyotish period started. The names of the nakshyatras months of 27 days are not commonly known to us even if they existed.The nakshyatra months have no relation with the seasons. they are connected to the nakshyatras only, i.e. are sidereal.The stars do not affect us directly. If they affected us then we would have to consider total of 88 constellations intead of only 12 rashis out of them.> > > > //In Atharva samhita ,we read of 'Ayanam maghaa'.From this, it is clear that firstly there was Uttrayan at Magh purnima//> > What a confusion! Please not that you are mixing Lunar Months (with the words Makha Purnima), Nakshtra masa (Ayanams Magha) and Solar moths (Uttarayana) . Why you want to club Nakshatra Chakra with Lunar months? Ayana is Solar or Lunar in nature?> > Sreendhji, Uttaryan can be both solar like makar sankranti and lunar like Poush purnima, when we celebrate maagha snana even now. Maagha snana used to be celebrated during the vedanga jyotish period on magha sukla pratipada.During the sidhanta jyotish period it was shifted to Poush purnima. This has been dealt by SB dixit too.> > > > //> The change in equinox or solstice seems togo by the validity of the lunar tithi.this could be the reason why we do not have Bhariniadi series and a jump from Kritikadi to Aswiniadi.//> > What do you mean by those words? It doesn't make any sense to me as of now - can you please elaborate and explain what you wanted to say? > > Sreenadhji,because our festivals are basically lunar, and lunar tithi can fluctuate for one month due to adhimas, It can remain uttaryan for a very long time, upto even 2000 years.then only we may switch over the uttarayan or vishuvat one whole or one whole pakshya. That could be the reason we jumped from Kritikadi to Aswinadi, without having Bhariniadi series, as you have pointed out..> > Love and regards,> > Sreenadh> > Where? Please provide the quote - without which such 'opinions' are not valid. > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Hari Malla > > > > > > > > ----- Forwarded Message ----> > Sreenadh sreesog@> > ancient_indian_ astrology> > Saturday, April 18, 2009 12:43:51 PM> > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Krittikadi> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Hari Malla ji,> > //let me remind my friends that there is mention of the vernal equinox where we have the head of the (Purusha?) in the vedas.//> > Where? Please provide the quote - without which such 'opinions' are not valid. > > //With the litle reading I have done, I have come to know that in the ancient time the months were mainly lunar months.//> > Where are the quotes? And why you are being so sure on this without evidence? Do you want to argue that "Tapa, Tapasya, Madhu, Madhava etc" are Lunar months and not solar?! Do you want to argue that Chaitra, Vaisakaha etc months are Lunar in nature and there nevar existed solar and lunar months with the same name (Lunar Chaitra and Solar Chaitra!) as AKK argues? Do you want to argue that Nakshatra (Lunar) moths with 27 days each existed even though they didn't had a name for those Nakshatra masas (Siderial months)? > > //In Atharva samhita ,we read of 'Ayanam maghaa'.From this, it is clear that firstly there was Uttrayan at Magh purnima//> > What a confusion! Please not that you are mixing Lunar Months (with the words Makha Purnima), Nakshtra masa (Ayanams Magha) and Solar moths (Uttarayana) . Why you want to club Nakshatra Chakra with Lunar months? Ayana is Solar or Lunar in nature?> > //> The change in equinox or solstice seems togo by the validity of the lunar tithi.this could be the reason why we do not have Bhariniadi series and a jump from Kritikadi to Aswiniadi.//> > What do you mean by those words? It doesn't make any sense to me as of now - can you please elaborate and explain what you wanted to say? > > Love and regards,> > Sreenadh> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Hari Malla harimalla@ .> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Sreenadhji,Bhattach ayaji,> > > I am happy our discussiion is taking a interesting turn.I am glad I have come in a critical juncture.Through our mutual cooperation, we may solve the century long problem of calender reform.I find Bhatacharyaji is senior person with a balanced view.Sreenadhji is also quite a careful person with critical power of analaysis.Sunil Nairji seems to be philanthropist respecting the global nature of the vedic culture which was clear from his last writing on vedic culture.> > > Let us be without prejudices so we all arrive at the truth.As I have already written in my last mail,let me remind my friends that there is mention of the vernal equinox where we have the head of the in the vedas.> > > With the litle reading I have done, I have come to know that in the ancient time the months were mainly lunar months.The seasons were also lunar as we see that during the vedanga jyotish period the months started from magh sukla pratipada as the winter solstice. In Atharva samhita ,we read of 'Ayanam maghaa'.From this, it is clear that firstly there was Uttrayan at Magh purnima,then it was shifted to magh sukla pratipada when mid aslesha and dhanistha has been mentioned by Braha mihir. Then during the early centuries of the christian era, we find Makar sakranti and poush purnima as the new solstice even as mentioned by Barahmihir in Brihad samhita. This last we are still celebrating.> > > The change in equinox or solstice seems togo by the validity of the lunar tithi.this could be the reason why we do not have Bhariniadi series and a jump from Kritikadi to Aswiniadi.> > > so let us please analyse it carefully, the facts we have come to know from the ancient texts.Thank you> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Forwarded Message ----> > Sreenadh sreesog@> > ancient_indian_ astrology> > Saturday, April 18, 2009 12:43:51 PM> > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Krittikadi> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Hari Malla ji, > > //let me remind my friends that there is mention of the vernal equinox where we have the head of the (Purusha?) in the vedas.//> > Where? Please provide the quote - without which such 'opinions' are not valid. > > //With the litle reading I have done, I have come to know that in the ancient time the months were mainly lunar months.//> > Where are the quotes? And why you are being so sure on this without evidence? Do you want to argue that "Tapa, Tapasya, Madhu, Madhava etc" are Lunar months and not solar?! Do you want to argue that Chaitra, Vaisakaha etc months are Lunar in nature and there nevar existed solar and lunar months with the same name (Lunar Chaitra and Solar Chaitra!) as AKK argues? Do you want to argue that Nakshatra (Lunar) moths with 27 days each existed even though they didn't had a name for those Nakshatra masas (Siderial months)? > > //In Atharva samhita ,we read of 'Ayanam maghaa'.From this, it is clear that firstly there was Uttrayan at Magh purnima//> > What a confusion! Please not that you are mixing Lunar Months (with the words Makha Purnima), Nakshtra masa (Ayanams Magha) and Solar moths (Uttarayana) . Why you want to club Nakshatra Chakra with Lunar months? Ayana is Solar or Lunar in nature?> > //> The change in equinox or solstice seems togo by the validity of the lunar tithi.this could be the reason why we do not have Bhariniadi series and a jump from Kritikadi to Aswiniadi.//> > What do you mean by those words? It doesn't make any sense to me as of now - can you please elaborate and explain what you wanted to say? > > Love and regards,> > Sreenadh> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Hari Malla harimalla@ .> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Sreenadhji,Bhattach ayaji,> > > I am happy our discussiion is taking a interesting turn.I am glad I have come in a critical juncture.Through our mutual cooperation, we may solve the century long problem of calender reform.I find Bhatacharyaji is senior person with a balanced view.Sreenadhji is also quite a careful person with critical power of analaysis.Sunil Nairji seems to be philanthropist respecting the global nature of the vedic culture which was clear from his last writing on vedic culture.> > > Let us be without prejudices so we all arrive at the truth.As I have already written in my last mail,let me remind my friends that there is mention of the vernal equinox where we have the head of the in the vedas.> > > With the litle reading I have done, I have come to know that in the ancient time the months were mainly lunar months.The seasons were also lunar as we see that during the vedanga jyotish period the months started from magh sukla pratipada as the winter solstice. In Atharva samhita ,we read of 'Ayanam maghaa'.From this, it is clear that firstly there was Uttrayan at Magh purnima,then it was shifted to magh sukla pratipada when mid aslesha and dhanistha has been mentioned by Braha mihir. Then during the early centuries of the christian era, we find Makar sakranti and poush purnima as the new solstice even as mentioned by Barahmihir in Brihad samhita. This last we are still celebrating.> > > The change in equinox or solstice seems togo by the validity of the lunar tithi.this could be the reason why we do not have Bhariniadi series and a jump from Kritikadi to Aswiniadi.> > > so let us please analyse it carefully, the facts we have come to know from the ancient texts.Thank you> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2009 Report Share Posted April 18, 2009 Dear Sunil Nairji, As you suggest I stop here, since you are irritated unnecessarily without searching for the truth.But let me remind you that I am not in favoour of pure sayan system as you understand. I want to protect and presearve the nirayan system in a reseasonble way.The reason I want to do this is because sayan is trying to overcome our nirayan culture..I recently heard that in Tamil nadu 30 temples have already taken the sayan system for the celebration of their festivals.This is what worries me.Well if you want them to increase and increase, it is upto you.You may please check from Robert wilkinson of the WAves forum, if it is true or not.Also know that Mr.Kaul has said both sayan and nirayan Niradhar.Any way, at present I am in no mood to continue with this subject here either. Thanking you, I say goodbye, sincerely yours, Hari Malla. ________________________________ sreedhar.nambiar <sreedhar.nambiar vedic astrology Saturday, April 18, 2009 11:48:49 PM [vedic astrology] Fwd: Re: Krittikadi ancient_indian_ astrology, " sunil nair " <astro_tellerkerala wrote: dear hari malla ji and sreenadh ji malla ji says shri kaul ji is ready to change his attitude or may b malla ji can make it happen ,kaul jis confessions and conversion are always welcome But the problem wont end there First of all he shud decide/agree what is Hindu astrological -astronomical concept and he shud discard his support for sayana western zodiacs and praising of their contributions .His calendrical concepts are based on a moving vishuva bindu ,so the rasi belt ( the path ) moves with the changes in vishuva bindu which is western concept not indian jyothishchakra ( hindu /baudha /jaina /charvaka etc ) .indian concept is based on nakshtra and fixed point of meshadi and aswinadi aramba chart ,if malla ji thinks it is varahamihira strted it i think he is wrong ,pls refer parasara hora ,chapter 3 shloka numbrs 3 to 7 ,nakshtrani grhanam ----- to meshadi namaka rasaya syu part . so for us rasi chakra is the path for grahas and nakshtras and other points required for a jyothichakra .And it has to b fixed one .And for us rasi and bhava is imp .lagna and Houses decide every thing and ownerships /shodasa vargas and all other mathematical points like ucha ,neecha and even gulika/mrityu sputa etc all r based on a fixed rasi chart .where as if we can use kaul's version then path is moving and grahas moving and nakshtras moving tho mathematicaly graha position ( i mean stithi ) point is same in both concepts which has diffrnt parameters ,so logicaly mathematicaly both may b correct apparently but cannot compromise because acccording his concept or supporting arguemnts will take us to think that the road and vehicles both r moving ( zodiac is moving back and grahas are moving forward ) .So when some one is travelling we hav to say delhi has come to him than he reached to delhi by road ,still the question of timing such purticular event in advance how it is possible when both r moving ??why we need to complicate every thing ?? so i hope malla ji may revise his views . also according to vedic concept the vishnu nabhi is important in thinking abt creation of universe and here the moola nakshtra ( as it is base or root ) and jyeshta ( eldest one ) is also has to b considered as based on it all nakshtra concept is based than some one interpret some vedic mantras as kritikati naksktras in some time of vedic periods is the strting point ,it has diffrnt meaning may b ,and vishuva bindu cannot b a strting point when thinking abt creation of universe as it is the basis of rai chakra ( rahu -sikhi chakra ) so many things accepted as vedic will b diffrnt frm kaulian argumnts and i dont think ther is any chance of reconciling both arguemnts . so he has only 2 choice .either discard his arguemnts or go ahed without any use except name calling and a chance to call astrologers as frauds in the name of a impractical calender ,like wat he was doing for almost quarter century . let us forget abt he abused ancient rishies / acharyas and dharma gurus and sankaracharyas .Also haunting any one who is interested in astrology by gate crashing technics and guerrilla technics . rgrds sunil nair . Om shreem mahalaxmai namah . ancient_indian_ astrology, " Sreenadh " sreesog@ wrote: > > Dear Hari Malla ji, > //> Thank you for the frank reply.He does seem to have one thing which > most of us lack.This is devotion to his purpose of calender reform.// > Sorry.. I think this itself is the very thing he lacks! He is NOT > devoted to the purpose of calendar reform, but just to the his roadside > rowdy bad mouth attitude against astrologers and astrology alone. If > ever he been dedicated to the subject of Vedic calender reform even for > at least 3 months or so he would have prepared the the skeleton frame > work of the same, and also might have written good descriptive article > about its components, organization, co-relation, purpose etc. He is yet > to implement even these tasks, which a knowledeable individual who may > dedicate 3 months to this subject may do. This not only prove that he is > incapable, but also that he got NO DEVOTION to the purpose of vedic > calender reform. Mark it. > // I have requested him .... Hopefully he may agree....... I think it > may be worthwhile to talk and negotiate.// > Hopes are always good. Whether it be Sunil Nair ji, Sunil > Bhattacharjya ji or Me, we all once had a respect for this man, which we > all lost in due course during our repeated interactions with that foul > mouth, without constructive attitude and respect for the contributions > of our ancistors. You can have your turn, and wish you all the best in > your sincere efforts. > //If he comes to term with somethng which is commonly acceptable why not > go along with him?// > Yes, certainly if he wish he can join us and come along with. Or if > you wish you can join him and go along with. But the point is the > purpose of evey stream, school of knowledge and individuals differ and > the group is just a meeting place. The true contributions are always > done by individuals and is individualistic. This being so - neither I > need the help of Kaul nor Kaul need the help of me. The same could be > true about the contibution of anyone with in this group or outside. > //After all we must divide our work.// > Have your ever tried it (especially related astrological research)? > And what was the result? What are the lessons you learned from that > experience? We all would be eager to know. If you have ever tried > the same, you would sure be able to answer those questions. But if you > haven't ever tried the same - then your advice does not hold any water. > Any way I am in support of that statement, but at times when it comes > to astrological research, I don't find anyone to divide my work with! > May be I may change this opinion as I see more sincere at the same time > knowledgeable individuals. > Love and regards, > Sreenadh > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Hari Malla > harimalla@ wrote: > > > > Dear Sreenadhji, > > Thank you for the frank reply.He does seem to have one thing which > most of us lack.This is devotion to his purpose of calender reform. > After all we must divide our work.If he comes to term with somethng > which is commonly acceptable why not go along with him? > > I feel we can work something which harmonises all, which keeps up our > nirayan tradition and also correct the times of festivals.The rashis > must continue, as much of our religious literature and the present > jyotish system is based and has been written using them. I have > requested him not try to get rid of the rashis and also tolerate the > nirayan system in a coordinated fashion with the sayan system. > > Hopefully he may agree.I have not been in contact with him for some > time.Shree Sunil Bahatacharyaji, thinks he may not agree overnight.But I > think it may be worthwhile to talk and negotiate.thank you.. > > Sincerely yours, > > Hari Malla > --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2009 Report Share Posted April 18, 2009 WHY ARE YOU SAYING GOOBYE  GO AND TALK WITH HIM  YOU DONT KNOW THIS DOG'S HISTORY  SUNIL NAIR IS THE SAME MAD DOG WHO ABUSED MANY ASTROLOGERS IN PAST BECAUSE OF FRUSTRATION AS HE IS NOT HAVING GRASP IN ASTROLOGY  HE ABUSED IN PAST TO :- PREM CHOPRA, SANJAY RATH, PVR, RAFAL, VISTI, LALIT, NADIA, VATTEM, ROHINI  HE IS FAILING ON ALL FRONTS BECAUSE OF HIS SAME ATTITUDE  HE HAS WRITTEN ONE MAIL ON VEDIC CALENDAR, ASK THIS BLOODY SHIT THAT HAS HE SUBSTANTIATED ANY OF HIS ARGUMENTS BY HINDU SCRIPTURES, ASK THIS SHIT THAT WHY IN INDIA THERE ARE SO MANY PANCHANGS  HE WILL EAT HIS OWN VOMITTING AFTER SOME TIME I FULLY KNOW  HE HAS NO POINT TO PROVE BY SLOKAS  THIS IDIOT HAS NOT READ EVEN A SINGLE PURAN AND VEDA AND ALSO SAMHITA BUT WANT TO SHIT EVERYWHERE  HE RUNS ON ALL GROUPS TO ABUSE ALL  ON HIS OWN GROUP HE DOESN’T PASS ANY OF THE MAIL OF OTHERS BECAUSE HE IS SCARED OF HIS HALF COOKED LEARNING  THEY HAVE CALLED MANY IN PAST IN THEIR GROUP, AFTER ABUSING THEM THEY LEFT THEM  HE COPY FROM EVERYWHERE AND SAY THIS IS OF MINE  BLOODY SMELLY DOG  NOW SEE HE HAS STARTED LAUGHING AT OUR DHARMA GRANTHAS ANCIENT CALCULATION, HE IS DESTROYER OUR BEAUTIFULL HINDU DHARMA  HE IS MUSLIM AND BEING FUNDED BY TALIBAN, AFTER SEEING HIS MESSAGES  MAAROO SAALAY KO PAKAD KER, HE IS LAUGHING AT OUR ANCIENT CALCULATION FROM OUR SCRIPTURE  HE SHOULD BE BEHEADED IMMEDIATELY  ASK THIS PIECE OF SHIT THAT HAS HE ANY PROOF IN THE FORM SLOKA  HE IS BARKING SMELLY DOG  AND HE AGAIN CAME HERE SO THAT I COULD FUCK HIS BOTTOM AGAIN  --- On Sun, 19/4/09, Hari Malla <harimalla wrote: Hari Malla <harimalla Re: [vedic astrology] Fwd: Re: Krittikadi " ancient indian " <astology >, vedic astrology Cc: " sreedhar.nambiar " <sreedhar.nambiar Sunday, 19 April, 2009, 1:39 AM Dear Sunil Nairji, As you suggest I stop here, since you are irritated unnecessarily without searching for the truth.But let me remind you that I am not in favoour of pure sayan system as you understand. I want to protect and presearve the nirayan system in a reseasonble way.The reason I want to do this is because sayan is trying to overcome our nirayan culture..I recently heard that in Tamil nadu 30 temples have already taken the sayan system for the celebration of their festivals.This is what worries me.Well if you want them to increase and increase, it is upto you.You may please check from Robert wilkinson of the WAves forum, if it is true or not.Also know that Mr.Kaul has said both sayan and nirayan Niradhar.Any way, at present I am in no mood to continue with this subject here either. Thanking you, I say goodbye,  sincerely yours, Hari Malla. ____________ _________ _________ __ sreedhar.nambiar <sreedhar.nambiar@ > vedic astrology Saturday, April 18, 2009 11:48:49 PM [vedic astrology] Fwd: Re: Krittikadi ancient_indian_ astrology, " sunil nair " <astro_tellerkerala wrote: dear hari malla ji and sreenadh ji malla ji says shri kaul ji is ready to change his attitude or may b malla ji can make it happen ,kaul jis confessions and conversion are always welcome But the problem wont end there First of all he shud decide/agree what is Hindu astrological -astronomical concept and he shud discard his support for sayana western zodiacs and praising of their contributions .His calendrical concepts are based on a moving vishuva bindu ,so the rasi belt ( the path ) moves with the changes in vishuva bindu which is western concept not indian jyothishchakra ( hindu /baudha /jaina /charvaka etc ) .indian concept is based on nakshtra and fixed point of meshadi and aswinadi aramba chart ,if malla ji thinks it is varahamihira strted it i think he is wrong ,pls refer parasara hora ,chapter 3 shloka numbrs 3 to 7 ,nakshtrani grhanam ----- to meshadi namaka rasaya syu part . so for us rasi chakra is the path for grahas and nakshtras and other points required for a jyothichakra .And it has to b fixed one .And for us rasi and bhava is imp .lagna and Houses decide every thing and ownerships /shodasa vargas and all other mathematical points like ucha ,neecha and even gulika/mrityu sputa etc all r based on a fixed rasi chart .where as if we can use kaul's version then path is moving and grahas moving and nakshtras moving tho mathematicaly graha position ( i mean stithi ) point is same in both concepts which has diffrnt parameters ,so logicaly mathematicaly both may b correct apparently but cannot compromise because acccording his concept or supporting arguemnts will take us to think that the road and vehicles both r moving ( zodiac is moving back and grahas are moving forward ) .So when some one is travelling we hav to say delhi has come to him than he reached to delhi by road ,still the question of timing such purticular event in advance how it is possible when both r moving ??why we need to complicate every thing ?? so i hope malla ji may revise his views . also according to vedic concept the vishnu nabhi is important in thinking abt creation of universe and here the moola nakshtra ( as it is base or root ) and jyeshta ( eldest one ) is also has to b considered as based on it all nakshtra concept is based than some one interpret some vedic mantras as kritikati naksktras in some time of vedic periods is the strting point ,it has diffrnt meaning may b ,and vishuva bindu cannot b a strting point when thinking abt creation of universe as it is the basis of rai chakra ( rahu -sikhi chakra ) so many things accepted as vedic will b diffrnt frm kaulian argumnts and i dont think ther is any chance of reconciling both arguemnts . so he has only 2 choice .either discard his arguemnts or go ahed without any use except name calling and a chance to call astrologers as frauds in the name of a impractical calender ,like wat he was doing for almost quarter century . let us forget abt he abused ancient rishies / acharyas and dharma gurus and sankaracharyas .Also haunting any one who is interested in astrology by gate crashing technics and guerrilla technics . rgrds sunil nair . Om shreem mahalaxmai namah . ancient_indian_ astrology, " Sreenadh " sreesog@ wrote: > > Dear Hari Malla ji, > //> Thank you for the frank reply.He does seem to have one thing which > most of us lack.This is devotion to his purpose of calender reform.// > Sorry.. I think this itself is the very thing he lacks! He is NOT > devoted to the purpose of calendar reform, but just to the his roadside > rowdy bad mouth attitude against astrologers and astrology alone. If > ever he been dedicated to the subject of Vedic calender reform even for > at least 3 months or so he would have prepared the the skeleton frame > work of the same, and also might have written good descriptive article > about its components, organization, co-relation, purpose etc. He is yet > to implement even these tasks, which a knowledeable individual who may > dedicate 3 months to this subject may do. This not only prove that he is > incapable, but also that he got NO DEVOTION to the purpose of vedic > calender reform. Mark it. > // I have requested him .... Hopefully he may agree....... I think it > may be worthwhile to talk and negotiate.// > Hopes are always good. Whether it be Sunil Nair ji, Sunil > Bhattacharjya ji or Me, we all once had a respect for this man, which we > all lost in due course during our repeated interactions with that foul > mouth, without constructive attitude and respect for the contributions > of our ancistors. You can have your turn, and wish you all the best in > your sincere efforts. > //If he comes to term with somethng which is commonly acceptable why not > go along with him?// > Yes, certainly if he wish he can join us and come along with. Or if > you wish you can join him and go along with. But the point is the > purpose of evey stream, school of knowledge and individuals differ and > the group is just a meeting place. The true contributions are always > done by individuals and is individualistic. This being so - neither I > need the help of Kaul nor Kaul need the help of me. The same could be > true about the contibution of anyone with in this group or outside. > //After all we must divide our work.// > Have your ever tried it (especially related astrological research)? > And what was the result? What are the lessons you learned from that > experience? We all would be eager to know. If you have ever tried > the same, you would sure be able to answer those questions. But if you > haven't ever tried the same - then your advice does not hold any water. > Any way I am in support of that statement, but at times when it comes > to astrological research, I don't find anyone to divide my work with! > May be I may change this opinion as I see more sincere at the same time > knowledgeable individuals. > Love and regards, > Sreenadh > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Hari Malla > harimalla@ wrote: > > > > Dear Sreenadhji, > > Thank you for the frank reply.He does seem to have one thing which > most of us lack.This is devotion to his purpose of calender reform. > After all we must divide our work.If he comes to term with somethng > which is commonly acceptable why not go along with him? > > I feel we can work something which harmonises all, which keeps up our > nirayan tradition and also correct the times of festivals.The rashis > must continue, as much of our religious literature and the present > jyotish system is based and has been written using them. I have > requested him not try to get rid of the rashis and also tolerate the > nirayan system in a coordinated fashion with the sayan system. > > Hopefully he may agree.I have not been in contact with him for some > time.Shree Sunil Bahatacharyaji, thinks he may not agree overnight.But I > think it may be worthwhile to talk and negotiate.thank you.. > > Sincerely yours, > > Hari Malla > --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2009 Report Share Posted April 19, 2009 , " sunil nair " <astro_tellerkerala wrote: hari malla ji it is not the point i am irritated or not .Each grp has it s own aims and purpose and u r in a wrong grp ( even i warned u first time itself but i think i made a mistake by allowing ur messge ) .because u said kaul says sayan and nirayan is baseless but u want to coordiante and re concile both system .here lies the problem .first u agree each other ..Then waist the time of astrologers ,only astrologers in the name of calender ( as they can b attacked so easily and many r self declared astro gurus without any base and they may b looking to settle some personal scores with other astrologers than based on subjuct under discussion so that they may b looking for one opportunity so they will also join with u as they want some supporters in the name of wat ever it is,again they will ditch u as they realy dont know that what u r talking ) so the hidden agenda is not calender but astrology and astrologers ,even i told u many times astrology is not abt ritu chakra in principle and it is based on creation,evolution and disintregration of whole universe ,Means has to take eternal laws than what u feel right now .( i stop hear as i dont hav time to explain how frm macro we r arriving at micro and all those concepts which is upto viscible exprnced reality ) calender can b political ,seasonal ,thithi, nakshtra solar or saura one or jupitarian or sapta rishi one or what ever way u wants but all this under one uniform calender is an impossibility ( ancients used almost 7 calenders and for various purposes ) if u and kaul succeded in making a uniform calender then go ahed with it and we hav -at least i hav no problems .( with kaul's lunar 354 days calender which givs 11 days a yr diffrnce ) some temples in Tamilnadu accpted ur calender or some one 's system is non of my problem as in india already there is diffrnt worshiping systems is going on ,In culcutta kali mandir i heard there is animal sacrifice and in kerala mandirs ( where ever it was conducted ) it is stopped long back ,is anything happened ??so wat is true ,what realy god needs ??? can u illuminate us -as u r protector of god and religion and without u hindus will b washed away frm earth .Gods cannot exist .why not God destroy one place ( either bengal or kerala ) atleast and show us what he needs ?? In gita Lord krishna never put guidelines on worshipping and said u worship only this way where as he said what ever way u do it all reaches to me ,that is why rishi valmiki cud able to realise god without doing all those hectic procedures and so many other saints frm illiterate ,downtroden communities in india .So bhagavan krishna never said u worship me only this way ,and he decreed dos and do nots in the name of worship. so is jagat guru adi sankaraacharya ,he accepted all those 10 sampradaya's in sanyas which was prevalent in those days ,y dont they make a uniform code for all ?? but if u can make it one and made all others accept it i hav no problems . but i dont hav time to waist for it such impossible one .even tho it is the cover u ppl uses to attack astrologers ( also i blv i am part of universe than i am some thing diffrnt ,so if whole universe is going to disintregrate i cannot stop it ). but dont expect supporters and followers in the name of making of a calender( or a chance to name call all ancients who ever contributed to astrology and various sastras ) which is yet to see it is efficacy ,newton or Einstein is not looking for supporters where as they presented their invention to the world and then got accepted so u r in wrong forum and grp i request moderaters b vigilant in approving messges as we r here not for their kind of calender atleast but astrology and astrology alone . rgrds sunil nair I am getting lot of request to stop this tread as they r not intered in it .And hari malla was using an leineincy givn to him to propogate their wrong calender concepts .which is a mathematical impossibility ..And far away frm reality ,other wise let him present one which includs waht ever he says and excepts what ever kaul said we shud not use it ..without dgree ,zodiac and sun etc etc .also for duration as u said a full brahma life ( 43200000 mahayuga s ) , Hari Malla harimalla@ wrote: > > Dear Sunil Nairji, > As you suggest I stop here, since you are irritated unnecessarily without searching for the truth.But let me remind you that I am not in favoour of pure sayan system as you understand. I want to protect and presearve the nirayan system in a reseasonble way.The reason I want to do this is because sayan is trying to overcome our nirayan culture..I recently heard that in Tamil nadu 30 temples have already taken the sayan system for the celebration of their festivals.This is what worries me.Well if you want them to increase and increase, it is upto you.You may please check from Robert wilkinson of the WAves forum, if it is true or not.Also know that Mr.Kaul has said both sayan and nirayan Niradhar.Any way, at present I am in no mood to continue with this subject here either. Thanking you, I say goodbye, > sincerely yours, > Hari Malla. > > > > > > ________________________________ > sunil nair astro_tellerkerala@ > > Saturday, April 18, 2009 11:04:09 PM > Fw: Re: Krittikadi hari malla ji > now the cat has come out of bag ,means u r not realy after calender and only wanted to taunt astrologers and astrology in the name of calender reforms and it is wat is kaulian agenda > > it is revealed in this statemnts > Brahmah's life is limited, but ananta is unlimited.I think Brahma is connected with seasons and we have to change the uttaryan form time to time. > means u and kaul will make enough calenders for whole brahma 's life time with changing sankranthies or is it brahma is some jewish abrahm and his wife saraswathi is yehudian lady sarah and he originated in world around BC 4000 according church and u want to fit in with every hindu era with that time frame ?? > one maha yuga has 4 yugas ( satya yuga ,treta yuga ,dwapara yuga and kali yuga where we hav calender ppl like u ) s0 a maha yuga is 43 20000 yrs and 1000 such maha yuga is one kalpa and it is one day in the life of brahma > like that 360 kalpa days make one yr in brhma s life > and such 120 brahma yrs is supposed as his longitivity > so it is 43 20 0000 x 1000 x 360 x 120 yrs == u do calculations > > so it is good arguemnt to torture astrologers ( that is ur hidden agenda in the name of this lunatic calender ) as u can make calenders for all this yugas by sitting in delhi tho even u dont hav one yr calender right now .( may ask i u ?? R u this kaul himself in new avatar , agendas are so Tallying ) > all the best to u and kaul and i am not asking u to go out of this grp ,now already every one is discussing abt my language in various grps and i abused so many gurus ,talking truth for them is abuse and time waisters like u r gr8est contributers to hindu dharma . > > so let us stop here and i bless u for such calenders and print it circulate as earliest as possible and without u ppl our hindu dharma and gods are at danger .sure u ppl can talk yrs and yrs without any problems but i blv all others value their time as they r not paid for this kind of tasks like u and every mail will add to ur bank account it seems . > but you also know that to reach God or reality, we have to coordinate the three ie, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva after a long time. > > means all of us has waisted our life right ????and no moksha for us > rgrds sunil nair > This tread is closed and if u post any thing in this subjuct u r at the risk of terminating ur posting previlages > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Hari Malla harimalla@ .> wrote: > > > > Dear Sunil Nairji, > > Thank you for your frank opinion.I liked the way you have mentioned about two points Brahma and Ananta.This is quite true.Brahmah' s life is limited, but ananta is unlimited.I think Brahma is connected with seasons and we have to change the uttaryan form time to time. Ananta is nirayan. Nirayan which is Vishnu or Shiva whose life is unlimited.but you also know that to reach God or reality, we have to coordinate the three ie, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva after a long time.Thus the concept of manawantar and kalpa is brought.Manwantar is when we shift one whole month to coordinate the three, Brahmah, vishnu and Shiva.The reason we have to ache our head is for this when th coordination is lost. If we don't change the manawantar when the coordination is lost, then all our dahrma and jyotish do not tally.It is time to do so, if we are sincere. > > Well if we are not in the mood,then we can do when the mood comes.Thank you. > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > sunil nair astro_tellerkerala@ ... > > ancient_indian_ astrology > > Saturday, April 18, 2009 6:11:32 PM > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Fw: Re: Krittikadi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear hari malla ji > > I think u r again confused with hindu zodiac with seasons ,it is untrue and it is a lie which ppl like kaul want to push .where as it is abt creation .that is why kala purusha and all that concept happened ..kala purusha head cannot change every day ,it has to b a fixed one atleast for a mathematical purpose tho we dont know when kala or time originated and hence yuga concept etc .Kala purusha the time personified has to b eternal that is why the concept brahma ( lord of creations ) and anantha ( infinity ) come and taken as 2 points ,one abov and one below in universe and taken as whole universe is in anda ( egg ) shape and rasi chakra is a plane in between with 8 directions where sun ecliptical path is there .And that is hindu rasi chakra or what u call zodiac in english and only grahas r considered means not planets in english means which can capture or control u ( grahanam para kotya --- means planets may b in crores of numbrs but we > take > > only 7 planets and rahu ,ketu ) > > vedic ppl has ( be it indus or vedic or non vedic or tantrik ) has so many calenders in use and each has its own purpose ,and dont confuse or need not break our head with affinity to one and opposing other . > > first try to find which system we need to follow and follow such calenders ,a uniform calender can b a political one or a church one only .. > > > > Again i am afraid ur over enthusism is upsetting our main aim of this grp which is astrology and its diffrnt aspect s > > we r not worried at present with kaulians calenders > > > > if after 10 K yrs makara sankranthi happening with hot season it is non of my problem at least for now ,if there is any religious things involved in it also then we astrologers are helpless as no one accepted me or any one in this grp as dharmaacharyas ( head preist s or gurus ) ,so that we can issue a papal decree and solv that problem of u . > > all this i am writing because u again clubbing with seasons and splitting hair which is not our duty and even majority in this grp is not interested tho later kaulians can say sunil nair run away frm discussions .right now we r not in a mood to argue and prove again again which is solar calender which is lunar calender etc ,tho it seems u hav ample of time > > > > hope u talk astrology here > > > > rgrds sunil nair > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Hari Malla harimalla@ .> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > //let me remind my friends that there is mention of the vernal equinox where we have the head of the (Purusha?) in the vedas.// > > > > > > Sreenadhji, I have provided, the quotes of SB Dixit in my last postng. > > > > > > //With the litle reading I have done, I have come to know that in the ancient time the months were mainly lunar months.// > > > Where are the quotes? And why you are being so sure on this without evidence? Do you want to argue that " Tapa, Tapasya, Madhu, Madhava etc " are Lunar months and not solar?! Do you want to argue that Chaitra, Vaisakaha etc months are Lunar in nature and there nevar existed solar and lunar months with the same name (Lunar Chaitra and Solar Chaitra!) as AKK argues? Do you want to argue that Nakshatra (Lunar) moths with 27 days each existed even though they didn't had a name for those Nakshatra masas (Siderial months)? > > > This is quite obvious. Madhu madhav are lunar months.The reason is that the word maasa is used synonimously in the vedas for both month and the moon. Proving the lackof solar months. Lunar chaitra only was there previously and solar chaitra came into being only after the advent of rashis mesh Vrish etc., i.e. after the sidhant jyotish period started. The names of the nakshyatras months of 27 days are not commonly known to us even if they existed.The nakshyatra months have no relation with the seasons. they are connected to the nakshyatras only, i.e. are sidereal.The stars do not affect us directly. If they affected us then we would have to consider total of 88 constellations intead of only 12 rashis out of them. > > > > > > //In Atharva samhita ,we read of 'Ayanam maghaa'.From this, it is clear that firstly there was Uttrayan at Magh purnima// > > > What a confusion! Please not that you are mixing Lunar Months (with the words Makha Purnima), Nakshtra masa (Ayanams Magha) and Solar moths (Uttarayana) . Why you want to club Nakshatra Chakra with Lunar months? Ayana is Solar or Lunar in nature? > > > Sreendhji, Uttaryan can be both solar like makar sankranti and lunar like Poush purnima, when we celebrate maagha snana even now. Maagha snana used to be celebrated during the vedanga jyotish period on magha sukla pratipada.During the sidhanta jyotish period it was shifted to Poush purnima. This has been dealt by SB dixit too. > > > > > > //> The change in equinox or solstice seems togo by the validity of the lunar tithi.this could be the reason why we do not have Bhariniadi series and a jump from Kritikadi to Aswiniadi.// > > > What do you mean by those words? It doesn't make any sense to me as of now - can you please elaborate and explain what you wanted to say? > > > Sreenadhji,because our festivals are basically lunar, and lunar tithi can fluctuate for one month due to adhimas, It can remain uttaryan for a very long time, upto even 2000 years.then only we may switch over the uttarayan or vishuvat one whole or one whole pakshya. That could be the reason we jumped from Kritikadi to Aswinadi, without having Bhariniadi series, as you have pointed out.. > > > Love and regards, > > > Sreenadh > > > Where? Please provide the quote - without which such 'opinions' are not valid. > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Hari Malla > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Forwarded Message ---- > > > Sreenadh sreesog@ > > > ancient_indian_ astrology > > > Saturday, April 18, 2009 12:43:51 PM > > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Krittikadi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Hari Malla ji, > > > //let me remind my friends that there is mention of the vernal equinox where we have the head of the (Purusha?) in the vedas.// > > > Where? Please provide the quote - without which such 'opinions' are not valid. > > > //With the litle reading I have done, I have come to know that in the ancient time the months were mainly lunar months.// > > > Where are the quotes? And why you are being so sure on this without evidence? Do you want to argue that " Tapa, Tapasya, Madhu, Madhava etc " are Lunar months and not solar?! Do you want to argue that Chaitra, Vaisakaha etc months are Lunar in nature and there nevar existed solar and lunar months with the same name (Lunar Chaitra and Solar Chaitra!) as AKK argues? Do you want to argue that Nakshatra (Lunar) moths with 27 days each existed even though they didn't had a name for those Nakshatra masas (Siderial months)? > > > //In Atharva samhita ,we read of 'Ayanam maghaa'.From this, it is clear that firstly there was Uttrayan at Magh purnima// > > > What a confusion! Please not that you are mixing Lunar Months (with the words Makha Purnima), Nakshtra masa (Ayanams Magha) and Solar moths (Uttarayana) . Why you want to club Nakshatra Chakra with Lunar months? Ayana is Solar or Lunar in nature? > > > //> The change in equinox or solstice seems togo by the validity of the lunar tithi.this could be the reason why we do not have Bhariniadi series and a jump from Kritikadi to Aswiniadi.// > > > What do you mean by those words? It doesn't make any sense to me as of now - can you please elaborate and explain what you wanted to say? > > > Love and regards, > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Hari Malla harimalla@ .> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Sreenadhji,Bhattach ayaji, > > > > I am happy our discussiion is taking a interesting turn.I am glad I have come in a critical juncture.Through our mutual cooperation, we may solve the century long problem of calender reform.I find Bhatacharyaji is senior person with a balanced view.Sreenadhji is also quite a careful person with critical power of analaysis.Sunil Nairji seems to be philanthropist respecting the global nature of the vedic culture which was clear from his last writing on vedic culture. > > > > Let us be without prejudices so we all arrive at the truth.As I have already written in my last mail,let me remind my friends that there is mention of the vernal equinox where we have the head of the in the vedas. > > > > With the litle reading I have done, I have come to know that in the ancient time the months were mainly lunar months.The seasons were also lunar as we see that during the vedanga jyotish period the months started from magh sukla pratipada as the winter solstice. In Atharva samhita ,we read of 'Ayanam maghaa'.From this, it is clear that firstly there was Uttrayan at Magh purnima,then it was shifted to magh sukla pratipada when mid aslesha and dhanistha has been mentioned by Braha mihir. Then during the early centuries of the christian era, we find Makar sakranti and poush purnima as the new solstice even as mentioned by Barahmihir in Brihad samhita. This last we are still celebrating. > > > > The change in equinox or solstice seems togo by the validity of the lunar tithi.this could be the reason why we do not have Bhariniadi series and a jump from Kritikadi to Aswiniadi. > > > > so let us please analyse it carefully, the facts we have come to know from the ancient texts.Thank you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Forwarded Message ---- > > > Sreenadh sreesog@ > > > ancient_indian_ astrology > > > Saturday, April 18, 2009 12:43:51 PM > > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Krittikadi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Hari Malla ji, > > > //let me remind my friends that there is mention of the vernal equinox where we have the head of the (Purusha?) in the vedas.// > > > Where? Please provide the quote - without which such 'opinions' are not valid. > > > //With the litle reading I have done, I have come to know that in the ancient time the months were mainly lunar months.// > > > Where are the quotes? And why you are being so sure on this without evidence? Do you want to argue that " Tapa, Tapasya, Madhu, Madhava etc " are Lunar months and not solar?! Do you want to argue that Chaitra, Vaisakaha etc months are Lunar in nature and there nevar existed solar and lunar months with the same name (Lunar Chaitra and Solar Chaitra!) as AKK argues? Do you want to argue that Nakshatra (Lunar) moths with 27 days each existed even though they didn't had a name for those Nakshatra masas (Siderial months)? > > > //In Atharva samhita ,we read of 'Ayanam maghaa'.From this, it is clear that firstly there was Uttrayan at Magh purnima// > > > What a confusion! Please not that you are mixing Lunar Months (with the words Makha Purnima), Nakshtra masa (Ayanams Magha) and Solar moths (Uttarayana) . Why you want to club Nakshatra Chakra with Lunar months? Ayana is Solar or Lunar in nature? > > > //> The change in equinox or solstice seems togo by the validity of the lunar tithi.this could be the reason why we do not have Bhariniadi series and a jump from Kritikadi to Aswiniadi.// > > > What do you mean by those words? It doesn't make any sense to me as of now - can you please elaborate and explain what you wanted to say? > > > Love and regards, > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Hari Malla harimalla@ .> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Sreenadhji,Bhattach ayaji, > > > > I am happy our discussiion is taking a interesting turn.I am glad I have come in a critical juncture.Through our mutual cooperation, we may solve the century long problem of calender reform.I find Bhatacharyaji is senior person with a balanced view.Sreenadhji is also quite a careful person with critical power of analaysis.Sunil Nairji seems to be philanthropist respecting the global nature of the vedic culture which was clear from his last writing on vedic culture. > > > > Let us be without prejudices so we all arrive at the truth.As I have already written in my last mail,let me remind my friends that there is mention of the vernal equinox where we have the head of the in the vedas. > > > > With the litle reading I have done, I have come to know that in the ancient time the months were mainly lunar months.The seasons were also lunar as we see that during the vedanga jyotish period the months started from magh sukla pratipada as the winter solstice. In Atharva samhita ,we read of 'Ayanam maghaa'.From this, it is clear that firstly there was Uttrayan at Magh purnima,then it was shifted to magh sukla pratipada when mid aslesha and dhanistha has been mentioned by Braha mihir. Then during the early centuries of the christian era, we find Makar sakranti and poush purnima as the new solstice even as mentioned by Barahmihir in Brihad samhita. This last we are still celebrating. > > > > The change in equinox or solstice seems togo by the validity of the lunar tithi.this could be the reason why we do not have Bhariniadi series and a jump from Kritikadi to Aswiniadi. > > > > so let us please analyse it carefully, the facts we have come to know from the ancient texts.Thank you > > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2009 Report Share Posted April 19, 2009 Dear Sunil Nairji, As you suggest I stop here, since you are irritated unnecessarily without searching for the truth.But let me remind you that I am not in favoour of pure sayan system as you understand. I want to protect and presearve the nirayan system in a reseasonble way.The reason I want to do this is because sayan is trying to overcome our nirayan culture.I recently heard that in Tamil nadu 30 temples have already taken the sayan system for the celebration of their festivals.This is what worries me.Well if you want them to increase and increase, it is upto you.You may please check from Robert wilkinson of the WAves forum, if it is true or not.Also know that Mr.Kaul has said both sayan and nirayan Niradhar.Any way, at present I am in no mood to continue with this subject here either. Thanking you, I say goodbye, sincerely yours, Hari Malla. sunil nair <astro_tellerkerala Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 11:04:09 PM Fw: Re: Krittikadi hari malla ji now the cat has come out of bag ,means u r not realy after calender and only wanted to taunt astrologers and astrology in the name of calender reforms and it is wat is kaulian agenda it is revealed in this statemnts Brahmah's life is limited, but ananta is unlimited.I think Brahma is connected with seasons and we have to change the uttaryan form time to time. means u and kaul will make enough calenders for whole brahma 's life time with changing sankranthies or is it brahma is some jewish abrahm and his wife saraswathi is yehudian lady sarah and he originated in world around BC 4000 according church and u want to fit in with every hindu era with that time frame ?? one maha yuga has 4 yugas ( satya yuga ,treta yuga ,dwapara yuga and kali yuga where we hav calender ppl like u ) s0 a maha yuga is 43 20000 yrs and 1000 such maha yuga is one kalpa and it is one day in the life of brahma like that 360 kalpa days make one yr in brhma s life and such 120 brahma yrs is supposed as his longitivity so it is 43 20 0000 x 1000 x 360 x 120 yrs == u do calculations so it is good arguemnt to torture astrologers ( that is ur hidden agenda in the name of this lunatic calender ) as u can make calenders for all this yugas by sitting in delhi tho even u dont hav one yr calender right now .( may ask i u ?? R u this kaul himself in new avatar , agendas are so Tallying ) all the best to u and kaul and i am not asking u to go out of this grp ,now already every one is discussing abt my language in various grps and i abused so many gurus ,talking truth for them is abuse and time waisters like u r gr8est contributers to hindu dharma . so let us stop here and i bless u for such calenders and print it circulate as earliest as possible and without u ppl our hindu dharma and gods are at danger .sure u ppl can talk yrs and yrs without any problems but i blv all others value their time as they r not paid for this kind of tasks like u and every mail will add to ur bank account it seems . but you also know that to reach God or reality, we have to coordinate the three ie, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva after a long time. means all of us has waisted our life right ????and no moksha for us rgrds sunil nair This tread is closed and if u post any thing in this subjuct u r at the risk of terminating ur posting previlages ancient_indian_ astrology, Hari Malla <harimalla@.. .> wrote:>> Dear Sunil Nairji,> Thank you for your frank opinion.I liked the way you have mentioned about two points Brahma and Ananta.This is quite true.Brahmah' s life is limited, but ananta is unlimited.I think Brahma is connected with seasons and we have to change the uttaryan form time to time. Ananta is nirayan. Nirayan which is Vishnu or Shiva whose life is unlimited.but you also know that to reach God or reality, we have to coordinate the three ie, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva after a long time.Thus the concept of manawantar and kalpa is brought.Manwantar is when we shift one whole month to coordinate the three, Brahmah, vishnu and Shiva.The reason we have to ache our head is for this when th coordination is lost.. If we don't change the manawantar when the coordination is lost, then all our dahrma and jyotish do not tally.It is time to do so, if we are sincere.> Well if we are not in the mood,then we can do when the mood comes.Thank you.> Regards,> > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> sunil nair astro_tellerkerala@ ...> ancient_indian_ astrology> Saturday, April 18, 2009 6:11:32 PM> [ancient_indian_ astrology] Fw: Re: Krittikadi> > > > > > > dear hari malla ji > I think u r again confused with hindu zodiac with seasons ,it is untrue and it is a lie which ppl like kaul want to push .where as it is abt creation .that is why kala purusha and all that concept happened .kala purusha head cannot change every day ,it has to b a fixed one atleast for a mathematical purpose tho we dont know when kala or time originated and hence yuga concept etc .Kala purusha the time personified has to b eternal that is why the concept brahma ( lord of creations ) and anantha ( infinity ) come and taken as 2 points ,one abov and one below in universe and taken as whole universe is in anda ( egg ) shape and rasi chakra is a plane in between with 8 directions where sun ecliptical path is there .And that is hindu rasi chakra or what u call zodiac in english and only grahas r considered means not planets in english means which can capture or control u ( grahanam para kotya --- means planets may b in crores of numbrs but we take> only 7 planets and rahu ,ketu ) > vedic ppl has ( be it indus or vedic or non vedic or tantrik ) has so many calenders in use and each has its own purpose ,and dont confuse or need not break our head with affinity to one and opposing other .> first try to find which system we need to follow and follow such calenders ,a uniform calender can b a political one or a church one only .> > Again i am afraid ur over enthusism is upsetting our main aim of this grp which is astrology and its diffrnt aspect s> we r not worried at present with kaulians calenders > > if after 10 K yrs makara sankranthi happening with hot season it is non of my problem at least for now ,if there is any religious things involved in it also then we astrologers are helpless as no one accepted me or any one in this grp as dharmaacharyas ( head preist s or gurus ) ,so that we can issue a papal decree and solv that problem of u .> all this i am writing because u again clubbing with seasons and splitting hair which is not our duty and even majority in this grp is not interested tho later kaulians can say sunil nair run away frm discussions .right now we r not in a mood to argue and prove again again which is solar calender which is lunar calender etc ,tho it seems u hav ample of time > > hope u talk astrology here > > rgrds sunil nair > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Hari Malla harimalla@ .> wrote:> >> > > > > > //let me remind my friends that there is mention of the vernal equinox where we have the head of the (Purusha?) in the vedas.//> > > > Sreenadhji, I have provided, the quotes of SB Dixit in my last postng.> > > > //With the litle reading I have done, I have come to know that in the ancient time the months were mainly lunar months.//> > Where are the quotes? And why you are being so sure on this without evidence? Do you want to argue that "Tapa, Tapasya, Madhu, Madhava etc" are Lunar months and not solar?! Do you want to argue that Chaitra, Vaisakaha etc months are Lunar in nature and there nevar existed solar and lunar months with the same name (Lunar Chaitra and Solar Chaitra!) as AKK argues? Do you want to argue that Nakshatra (Lunar) moths with 27 days each existed even though they didn't had a name for those Nakshatra masas (Siderial months)? > > This is quite obvious. Madhu madhav are lunar months.The reason is that the word maasa is used synonimously in the vedas for both month and the moon. Proving the lackof solar months. Lunar chaitra only was there previously and solar chaitra came into being only after the advent of rashis mesh Vrish etc., i.e. after the sidhant jyotish period started. The names of the nakshyatras months of 27 days are not commonly known to us even if they existed.The nakshyatra months have no relation with the seasons. they are connected to the nakshyatras only, i.e. are sidereal.The stars do not affect us directly. If they affected us then we would have to consider total of 88 constellations intead of only 12 rashis out of them.> > > > //In Atharva samhita ,we read of 'Ayanam maghaa'.From this, it is clear that firstly there was Uttrayan at Magh purnima//> > What a confusion! Please not that you are mixing Lunar Months (with the words Makha Purnima), Nakshtra masa (Ayanams Magha) and Solar moths (Uttarayana) . Why you want to club Nakshatra Chakra with Lunar months? Ayana is Solar or Lunar in nature?> > Sreendhji, Uttaryan can be both solar like makar sankranti and lunar like Poush purnima, when we celebrate maagha snana even now. Maagha snana used to be celebrated during the vedanga jyotish period on magha sukla pratipada.During the sidhanta jyotish period it was shifted to Poush purnima. This has been dealt by SB dixit too.> > > > //> The change in equinox or solstice seems togo by the validity of the lunar tithi.this could be the reason why we do not have Bhariniadi series and a jump from Kritikadi to Aswiniadi.//> > What do you mean by those words? It doesn't make any sense to me as of now - can you please elaborate and explain what you wanted to say? > > Sreenadhji,because our festivals are basically lunar, and lunar tithi can fluctuate for one month due to adhimas, It can remain uttaryan for a very long time, upto even 2000 years.then only we may switch over the uttarayan or vishuvat one whole or one whole pakshya. That could be the reason we jumped from Kritikadi to Aswinadi, without having Bhariniadi series, as you have pointed out..> > Love and regards,> > Sreenadh> > Where? Please provide the quote - without which such 'opinions' are not valid. > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Hari Malla > > > > > > > > ----- Forwarded Message ----> > Sreenadh sreesog@> > ancient_indian_ astrology> > Saturday, April 18, 2009 12:43:51 PM> > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Krittikadi> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Hari Malla ji,> > //let me remind my friends that there is mention of the vernal equinox where we have the head of the (Purusha?) in the vedas.//> > Where? Please provide the quote - without which such 'opinions' are not valid. > > //With the litle reading I have done, I have come to know that in the ancient time the months were mainly lunar months.//> > Where are the quotes? And why you are being so sure on this without evidence? Do you want to argue that "Tapa, Tapasya, Madhu, Madhava etc" are Lunar months and not solar?! Do you want to argue that Chaitra, Vaisakaha etc months are Lunar in nature and there nevar existed solar and lunar months with the same name (Lunar Chaitra and Solar Chaitra!) as AKK argues? Do you want to argue that Nakshatra (Lunar) moths with 27 days each existed even though they didn't had a name for those Nakshatra masas (Siderial months)? > > //In Atharva samhita ,we read of 'Ayanam maghaa'.From this, it is clear that firstly there was Uttrayan at Magh purnima//> > What a confusion! Please not that you are mixing Lunar Months (with the words Makha Purnima), Nakshtra masa (Ayanams Magha) and Solar moths (Uttarayana) . Why you want to club Nakshatra Chakra with Lunar months? Ayana is Solar or Lunar in nature?> > //> The change in equinox or solstice seems togo by the validity of the lunar tithi.this could be the reason why we do not have Bhariniadi series and a jump from Kritikadi to Aswiniadi.//> > What do you mean by those words? It doesn't make any sense to me as of now - can you please elaborate and explain what you wanted to say? > > Love and regards,> > Sreenadh> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Hari Malla harimalla@ .> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Sreenadhji,Bhattach ayaji,> > > I am happy our discussiion is taking a interesting turn.I am glad I have come in a critical juncture.Through our mutual cooperation, we may solve the century long problem of calender reform.I find Bhatacharyaji is senior person with a balanced view.Sreenadhji is also quite a careful person with critical power of analaysis.Sunil Nairji seems to be philanthropist respecting the global nature of the vedic culture which was clear from his last writing on vedic culture.> > > Let us be without prejudices so we all arrive at the truth.As I have already written in my last mail,let me remind my friends that there is mention of the vernal equinox where we have the head of the in the vedas.> > > With the litle reading I have done, I have come to know that in the ancient time the months were mainly lunar months.The seasons were also lunar as we see that during the vedanga jyotish period the months started from magh sukla pratipada as the winter solstice. In Atharva samhita ,we read of 'Ayanam maghaa'.From this, it is clear that firstly there was Uttrayan at Magh purnima,then it was shifted to magh sukla pratipada when mid aslesha and dhanistha has been mentioned by Braha mihir. Then during the early centuries of the christian era, we find Makar sakranti and poush purnima as the new solstice even as mentioned by Barahmihir in Brihad samhita. This last we are still celebrating.> > > The change in equinox or solstice seems togo by the validity of the lunar tithi.this could be the reason why we do not have Bhariniadi series and a jump from Kritikadi to Aswiniadi.> > > so let us please analyse it carefully, the facts we have come to know from the ancient texts.Thank you> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Forwarded Message ----> > Sreenadh sreesog@> > ancient_indian_ astrology> > Saturday, April 18, 2009 12:43:51 PM> > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Krittikadi> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Hari Malla ji, > > //let me remind my friends that there is mention of the vernal equinox where we have the head of the (Purusha?) in the vedas.//> > Where? Please provide the quote - without which such 'opinions' are not valid. > > //With the litle reading I have done, I have come to know that in the ancient time the months were mainly lunar months.//> > Where are the quotes? And why you are being so sure on this without evidence? Do you want to argue that "Tapa, Tapasya, Madhu, Madhava etc" are Lunar months and not solar?! Do you want to argue that Chaitra, Vaisakaha etc months are Lunar in nature and there nevar existed solar and lunar months with the same name (Lunar Chaitra and Solar Chaitra!) as AKK argues? Do you want to argue that Nakshatra (Lunar) moths with 27 days each existed even though they didn't had a name for those Nakshatra masas (Siderial months)? > > //In Atharva samhita ,we read of 'Ayanam maghaa'.From this, it is clear that firstly there was Uttrayan at Magh purnima//> > What a confusion! Please not that you are mixing Lunar Months (with the words Makha Purnima), Nakshtra masa (Ayanams Magha) and Solar moths (Uttarayana) . Why you want to club Nakshatra Chakra with Lunar months? Ayana is Solar or Lunar in nature?> > //> The change in equinox or solstice seems togo by the validity of the lunar tithi.this could be the reason why we do not have Bhariniadi series and a jump from Kritikadi to Aswiniadi.//> > What do you mean by those words? It doesn't make any sense to me as of now - can you please elaborate and explain what you wanted to say? > > Love and regards,> > Sreenadh> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Hari Malla harimalla@ .> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Sreenadhji,Bhattach ayaji,> > > I am happy our discussiion is taking a interesting turn.I am glad I have come in a critical juncture.Through our mutual cooperation, we may solve the century long problem of calender reform.I find Bhatacharyaji is senior person with a balanced view.Sreenadhji is also quite a careful person with critical power of analaysis.Sunil Nairji seems to be philanthropist respecting the global nature of the vedic culture which was clear from his last writing on vedic culture.> > > Let us be without prejudices so we all arrive at the truth.As I have already written in my last mail,let me remind my friends that there is mention of the vernal equinox where we have the head of the in the vedas.> > > With the litle reading I have done, I have come to know that in the ancient time the months were mainly lunar months.The seasons were also lunar as we see that during the vedanga jyotish period the months started from magh sukla pratipada as the winter solstice. In Atharva samhita ,we read of 'Ayanam maghaa'.From this, it is clear that firstly there was Uttrayan at Magh purnima,then it was shifted to magh sukla pratipada when mid aslesha and dhanistha has been mentioned by Braha mihir. Then during the early centuries of the christian era, we find Makar sakranti and poush purnima as the new solstice even as mentioned by Barahmihir in Brihad samhita. This last we are still celebrating.> > > The change in equinox or solstice seems togo by the validity of the lunar tithi.this could be the reason why we do not have Bhariniadi series and a jump from Kritikadi to Aswiniadi.> > > so let us please analyse it carefully, the facts we have come to know from the ancient texts.Thank you> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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