Guest guest Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Namaste Bhattacharya ji, For the record sake, let it be known that I have sent few offline messages to Mr. Vinay and encouraged him to write his views ont he subject without getting infactuated & centered on Mr. Chandrahari's 2-3 messages in the group. But he never took up the good advices given to him. I wrote elaborate notes for him on internet and matured behavior on internet forums... that people of his age to follow..... however, he seemed to lack grey cells much wanted for a person of his age and self proclaimed knowledgebase. Further, we have never banned any one in the group till now, unless they are confirmed fakes. Mr. Vinay left on his own.... for he had high expectations of his knowledge, which were into thorough scrutiny in the group and queries raised to him were never answered may be he does not have the answers.... With regards, Sreeram_Srinivas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 dear grp and astrologers and frnds what ever shri vinay ji says not true with my experience and even the history of astrology also ask us to compute in geocentical pole star ( siderial way than topocentic one which we use after deducting ayanamsa ) --so it is some basic mathematics than some spiritual non existant calculations .varahamihira mentions abt variouas sidhantas and he said many got obselet (except few ) bcause it is not working properly with own experience and observation ,even all acharyas ask us to calculate many time in diffrnt ways and see with actual ( as we can almost see all 7 planets in sky with naked eyes ( except rahu and ketu ) tho now we hav ready made calculations are available and we can use it later in even 14th century shri parameswaran nampoothiry has devlped a system calld drig ganita-thiruganita ( to compute actual position --sure not sayana topocentrical one as it is based on mooving zodiac and top of earth position than frm a fixed star which will never change and we take a niraksha deasa as 0 degree longitude /lattitude and says it is bhoomadhya like lanka or ujjain too and all the calculation are frm that concept ) so this claim of vinay ji abt some spiritual position than actual physical position cannot b taken as a scholarly one and many advocate such view and makes erroneus calenders and even makes panchangas it is because of wrong understanding of sidhanthas .unless we predict and try with own experiences no body can say which system is better as prime aim of astrology is phaladesha so claims like it ( his SW )is aligning better with parasari and all that can b told to nursery kids than a grp of real reserchers like us who look tru actual happeneing and even trying to see various events in our own life or others in view of astrology even every meeting i am trying to test tru astrology ( even it can b a call or even a service person visting us offering some service let it b electrical or other appliances also so many other countless events happening in our life--try to predict results before hand and see tru astrology and see what realy happened .) ,so actual position calculated based on nirayana way givs better results than any other system of calculation if he is taking a spiritual longitude then how can we see vakra or even combustion etc in actual way ???then i think no need of even any accurate birth details too if everything is spiritual --and a yogi or brahmachari only is elegible ( even parasara has son and many many rishies were married and had kids and family ) sorry i am typing so fast and bear with me for errors in typing rgrds sunil nair i dont want to go into puranas and all that as it givs some sort of kick for this kind of psudo scholar',s who can keep on arguing and waiste our time as plenty of time is avilable with them ,so keeping my arguements sweet and crispy and this is based on real experience and real reserch , Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:>> Vinayji,> > 1)> You say that the location of the physical planets are different from the actual locations of the grahas but Vedavyasa does not agree with you. Will you say that Vedavyasa did not have spiritual knowledge which you claim to possess? Vedavyasa said that at the time of the Mahabharata war the Saturn (physical planet) was in Visakha nakshatra (physical location) and that it was tormenting Rohini.> > 2)> You said that Suniljee wants you to demonstrate your computing power like a madaari. Far from it I wanted to you to demonstarte you computing abilities like Shakuntal devi did and nobody has any doubt on her computing ability. Do you want to say Shakuntala Devi is a madaari(ni)? Why do you interpret things in the wrong way more usually than otherwuse? Or is it that you cannot prove it and want a face-saving exit from the topic> > 3) As regards Tantra you misinformed the AIA group by saying that Tantra is un-Vedic and I simply corrected it and told you that the Kularnava tantra traces its origin to Veda. Then you said that in Tantra one has to get drunk heavily. I only corrected it by saying that Tantra recommends that one should take the substitutes. Then there is also the alternative procedure of Alipaan, which a symbolical drinking of a drop. However in case of one, who is used to drinking wines, only two-Tolas (ie. one ounce of wine, which is less than the safe limit of wine permitted by the World Health Organisation) was allowed. Now please do not pose the question as to whether the Tantric masters consulted WHO before fixing the two Tolas. You have already made enough of cheap fun of the Two Tolas due to your ignorance of the Tantric norms. > > 4) Vinayji please speak out only what is true. Which foul word did I use? Please have the guts to tell the forum. Please leave your dirty tactics of false accusations. Also your claim that one has to be a lifeong Brahmachari to get spiritual knowledge is all bullshit. In the ancient times all the sages like Vasishtha were married. The ancient Kumaras and only a few others were balabrahmachari. From the biographical details that we have of Adi Sankaracharya he told his mother that his longevity (ayu) was less and that he would die unless he became a sanyashi. I do not think Adi Sankaracharya wanted to fool his mother. Moreove of the sankara mathas the Sankaracharyas of the Govardhana Math were grihashthis in their purvashrama.> > 5) You never told that your book on Suryasiddhanta was on the Internet website but you pretended to get annoyed with me and you said that you are going to delete that from your website so that I don't get to see it. Please do not play such dirty tricks. If you want to delete it you can very well do it as it is your prerogative. Now I am convinced that a book coming from a person of such attitude may not be worth reading.> > 6)> I agree that in the AIA group Chandrahariji did use strong words in the beginning only because of your unproven and unprovable tall claims. I had, at one time, a lot of correspondence with Chandrahariji and we respected each other even though we did not agree in several things. All other people including Sreenadhji in the AIA group were very polite towards you. They never used a single strong word against you. In fact I also supported you in the beginning. But your much- vaunted scholarship remained only in your assertions and claims. In your every mail you used bring up what Chandrahariji wrote in the beginning to you and you threatened that you will quit that group and to keep your word you had to quit. Sreenadhji, the owners and the moderators were very tolerant towards you and I do not think that you were ousted from the group but yourself made your position very precarious there and you left ignominiously.> > -SKB> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Dear Sunil ji // later in even 14th century shri parameswaran nampoothiry has devlped a> system calld drig ganita-thiruganita ( to compute actual position> --sure not sayana topocentrical one as it is based on mooving zodiac and> top of earth position than frm a fixed star which will never change and> we take a niraksha deasa as 0 degree longitude /lattitude and says it> is bhoomadhya like lanka or ujjain too and all the calculation are frm> that concept ) // You are right about above. For instance "Lankodaya man" is the measurement for a sign to rise in the East at equator. Aries 279 taurus 299 Gemini 322 pala etc. to make 1800 pals or 30 Ghatis or 12 hours. Like "Swodayaman" is the time taken by a sign to rise in the East which differs in relation to the Latitude of a given place. This can be calculated by help of a "CharaKhanda" and used in calculation of ascendant . Here angula and vyangula maap (Measure) is used. as in those times this was the measure to measure the angle of the shadow of the Sun falling at a particluar place and forming a particular angle (On what base Jantar Mantar is based). Those who wish to learn these calculations from me, may come to Bombay after fixing an appointment with me. best wishes, Bhaskar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 respectd bhaskar ji Thanks for ur mail and further clarifications if god willing i will visit u and see how is ur calculations are working in actual way tho we discussed a bit over phone as i am not a sidhnathi myself and using SW for all kind of calculations right now ,even wat ever learned b4 ,all those manual calculations has become so tedious and time consuming for me esp after addicted to computers and various astro softwares rgrds sunil nair , "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:>> Dear Sunil ji> > // later in even 14th century shri parameswaran nampoothiry has devlped> a> > system calld drig ganita-thiruganita ( to compute actual position> > --sure not sayana topocentrical one as it is based on mooving zodiac> and> > top of earth position than frm a fixed star which will never change> and> > we take a niraksha deasa as 0 degree longitude /lattitude and says it> > is bhoomadhya like lanka or ujjain too and all the calculation are frm> > that concept ) //> > You are right about above.> > For instance "Lankodaya man" is the measurement for a sign to rise in> the East at equator.> > Aries 279 taurus 299 Gemini 322 pala etc. to make 1800 pals or 30> Ghatis or 12 hours.> > Like "Swodayaman" is the time taken by a sign to rise in the East which> differs in relation to the Latitude of a given place. This can be> calculated by help of a "CharaKhanda" and used in calculation of> ascendant .> > Here angula and vyangula maap (Measure) is used. as in those times this> was the measure to measure the angle of the shadow of the Sun falling at> a particluar place and forming a particular angle (On what base Jantar> Mantar is based).> > Those who wish to learn these calculations from me, may come to Bombay> after fixing an appointment with me.> > best wishes,> > Bhaskar.> > > > > > > > , "sunil nair"> astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:> >> > dear grp and astrologers and frnds> >> > what ever shri vinay ji says not true with my experience and even the> > history of astrology also ask us to compute in geocentical pole star (> > siderial way than topocentic one which we use after deducting ayanamsa> > ) --so it is some basic mathematics than some spiritual non existant> > calculations .> >> > varahamihira mentions abt variouas sidhantas and he said many got> > obselet (except few ) bcause it is not working properly with own> > experience and observation ,even all acharyas ask us to calculate many> > time in diffrnt ways and see with actual ( as we can almost see all 7> > planets in sky with naked eyes ( except rahu and ketu ) tho now we hav> > ready made calculations are available and we can use it> >> > later in even 14th century shri parameswaran nampoothiry has devlped a> > system calld drig ganita-thiruganita ( to compute actual position> > --sure not sayana topocentrical one as it is based on mooving zodiac> and> > top of earth position than frm a fixed star which will never change> and> > we take a niraksha deasa as 0 degree longitude /lattitude and says it> > is bhoomadhya like lanka or ujjain too and all the calculation are frm> > that concept )> >> > so this claim of vinay ji abt some spiritual position than actual> > physical position cannot b taken as a scholarly one and many advocate> > such view and makes erroneus calenders and even makes panchangas it is> > because of wrong understanding of sidhanthas .> >> > unless we predict and try with own experiences no body can say which> > system is better as prime aim of astrology is phaladesha> >> > so claims like it ( his SW )is aligning better with parasari and all> > that can b told to nursery kids than a grp of real reserchers like us> > who look tru actual happeneing and even trying to see various events> in> > our own life or others in view of astrology even every meeting i am> > trying to test tru astrology ( even it can b a call or even a service> > person visting us offering some service let it b electrical or other> > appliances also so many other countless events happening in our> > life--try to predict results before hand and see tru astrology and see> > what realy happened .) ,so actual position calculated based on> nirayana> > way givs better results than any other system of calculation> >> > if he is taking a spiritual longitude then how can we see vakra or> even> > combustion etc in actual way ???> >> > then i think no need of even any accurate birth details too if> > everything is spiritual --and a yogi or brahmachari only is elegible (> > even parasara has son and many many rishies were married and had kids> > and family )> >> > sorry i am typing so fast and bear with me for errors in typing> >> > rgrds sunil nair> >> > i dont want to go into puranas and all that as it givs some sort of> > kick for this kind of psudo scholar',s who can keep on arguing and> > waiste our time as plenty of time is avilable with them ,so keeping my> > arguements sweet and crispy and this is based on real experience and> > real reserch> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Dear Sunil ji, Yes nobody uses these ancient calculations these days, and we cannot, and must not, because when mathematical calculations are able at the click of the button, it does not make any sense to do so. These are learnt just to know the methods and keep the glory of the Indian traditions alive, just for that purpose, so that the knowledge of the Indian parampara is carried on from generation to genration, and not lost. I have some other calculations too, and am waiting for the right patras to whom these can be taught. I will await your coming to Bombay with pleasure. regards/Bhaskar. , " sunil nair " <astro_tellerkerala wrote: > > > respectd bhaskar ji > > > > Thanks for ur mail and further clarifications > > if god willing i will visit u and see how is ur calculations are working > in actual way tho we discussed a bit over phone as i am not a sidhnathi > myself and using SW for all kind of calculations right now ,even wat > ever learned b4 ,all those manual calculations has become so tedious > and time consuming for me esp after addicted to computers and various > astro softwares > > > > rgrds sunil nair > > > , " Bhaskar " > bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote: > > > > Dear Sunil ji > > > > // later in even 14th century shri parameswaran nampoothiry has > devlped > > a > > > system calld drig ganita-thiruganita ( to compute actual position > > > --sure not sayana topocentrical one as it is based on mooving zodiac > > and > > > top of earth position than frm a fixed star which will never change > > and > > > we take a niraksha deasa as 0 degree longitude /lattitude and says > it > > > is bhoomadhya like lanka or ujjain too and all the calculation are > frm > > > that concept ) // > > > > You are right about above. > > > > For instance " Lankodaya man " is the measurement for a sign to rise in > > the East at equator. > > > > Aries 279 taurus 299 Gemini 322 pala etc. to make 1800 pals or 30 > > Ghatis or 12 hours. > > > > Like " Swodayaman " is the time taken by a sign to rise in the East > which > > differs in relation to the Latitude of a given place. This can be > > calculated by help of a " CharaKhanda " and used in calculation of > > ascendant . > > > > Here angula and vyangula maap (Measure) is used. as in those times > this > > was the measure to measure the angle of the shadow of the Sun falling > at > > a particluar place and forming a particular angle (On what base Jantar > > Mantar is based). > > > > Those who wish to learn these calculations from me, may come to Bombay > > after fixing an appointment with me. > > > > best wishes, > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " sunil nair " > > astro_tellerkerala@ wrote: > > > > > > dear grp and astrologers and frnds > > > > > > what ever shri vinay ji says not true with my experience and even > the > > > history of astrology also ask us to compute in geocentical pole star > ( > > > siderial way than topocentic one which we use after deducting > ayanamsa > > > ) --so it is some basic mathematics than some spiritual non existant > > > calculations . > > > > > > varahamihira mentions abt variouas sidhantas and he said many got > > > obselet (except few ) bcause it is not working properly with own > > > experience and observation ,even all acharyas ask us to calculate > many > > > time in diffrnt ways and see with actual ( as we can almost see all > 7 > > > planets in sky with naked eyes ( except rahu and ketu ) tho now we > hav > > > ready made calculations are available and we can use it > > > > > > later in even 14th century shri parameswaran nampoothiry has devlped > a > > > system calld drig ganita-thiruganita ( to compute actual position > > > --sure not sayana topocentrical one as it is based on mooving zodiac > > and > > > top of earth position than frm a fixed star which will never change > > and > > > we take a niraksha deasa as 0 degree longitude /lattitude and says > it > > > is bhoomadhya like lanka or ujjain too and all the calculation are > frm > > > that concept ) > > > > > > so this claim of vinay ji abt some spiritual position than actual > > > physical position cannot b taken as a scholarly one and many > advocate > > > such view and makes erroneus calenders and even makes panchangas it > is > > > because of wrong understanding of sidhanthas . > > > > > > unless we predict and try with own experiences no body can say which > > > system is better as prime aim of astrology is phaladesha > > > > > > so claims like it ( his SW )is aligning better with parasari and all > > > that can b told to nursery kids than a grp of real reserchers like > us > > > who look tru actual happeneing and even trying to see various events > > in > > > our own life or others in view of astrology even every meeting i am > > > trying to test tru astrology ( even it can b a call or even a > service > > > person visting us offering some service let it b electrical or other > > > appliances also so many other countless events happening in our > > > life--try to predict results before hand and see tru astrology and > see > > > what realy happened .) ,so actual position calculated based on > > nirayana > > > way givs better results than any other system of calculation > > > > > > if he is taking a spiritual longitude then how can we see vakra or > > even > > > combustion etc in actual way ??? > > > > > > then i think no need of even any accurate birth details too if > > > everything is spiritual --and a yogi or brahmachari only is elegible > ( > > > even parasara has son and many many rishies were married and had > kids > > > and family ) > > > > > > sorry i am typing so fast and bear with me for errors in typing > > > > > > rgrds sunil nair > > > > > > i dont want to go into puranas and all that as it givs some sort of > > > kick for this kind of psudo scholar',s who can keep on arguing and > > > waiste our time as plenty of time is avilable with them ,so keeping > my > > > arguements sweet and crispy and this is based on real experience and > > > real reserch > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 @Sunil Bhattacharjya Ji : In his article 'The dotted record and its effect on the Ancient Indian chronology, including the antiquity of the Veda and the Bhagavad Gita', I found Mr Sunil Bhattacharyja's words " the great poet Kalidasa of the 8th century BCE in his drama Vikramorvashia " . He ignored the fact that the protagonist of his drama Maalvikaa-agimitra was Agnimitra, son of Pushyamitra Sunga. Agnimitra's date is ~160 BC. Hence, Kalidasa must have lived after 150 BC in any case. If we accept Mr Sunil Bhattacharyja's dating of Kalidasa, The Budhha and entire Indian chronology will have to be pushed back by at least 7 centuries, because Agnimitra Sunga will need to be placed around 800 BC. And what about Alexander ? Entire world history needs to be rewritten. I request Sunil Dada to consider my humble point with condescension. -VJ ============== =============== , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16 wrote: > > " Bharat-varshis of those times believed that fighting may be necessary over some issues but basically all are friends. " > > Well said !! May we follow this rule ? > > > -vj > > > ________________________________ > Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya > > Thursday, April 9, 2009 6:17:06 AM > Re: Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!Dear Rohini, > > Yes. Manu, the first law-giver, had prescribed the rules of the war and one rule among those was that a person must warn his opponent about the intention to fight (ie. to fight it out, over whatever be the cause, for which fighting may be considered necessary). A person has to fight only with the opponent only if the latter is prepared for the fight. One should not attack an unarmed opponent, even though there is enmity between them. You might have read in the Bhagavad Gita that at the end of the first chapter Arjuna laid down his arms. Then in the beginning of the next (ie.second) chapter he requested Lord Krishna for guidance and the Lord could impart the lessons of the Bhagavad Gita to Arjuna, even though it was in the middle of the battle field, simply because Arjuna was unarmed and Bhishma, the commander of the Kaurava army, was a law-abiding person and he would not allow any attack from the Kaurava side on the unarmed > Arjuna. Many scholars, who do not know this, wonder as to how the Bhagavad Gita could have been delivered in the battle-field. > > Manu gave some more rules for the war. Then just before the Mahabharata war some additional rules were made, such as that after the battle is over for the day all would be friends again till the battle was resumed on the next day. In Mahabharata you will find that after framing these rules they themselves were surprised that they have made such rules.These rules were strictly observed till Bhishma was in command and later on however there were many breaches of the rules. > > One thing stands out from this that the Bharat-vashis of those times believed that fighting may be necessary over some issues but basically all are friends. Of course there were some black sheeps like Duryodhana who did not inherently believe in the rules as he made his own rules and in the end he did not gain anything by that attitude. > > As regards your second query the Sun is the source of all energy and all interplay of energy is possible due to the Sun. Curiously it is said that the number one (numerologically) people are generally more energetic than the other people, when the Sun rises and they become tired or lethargic towards the end of the day when the Sun sets. Please let me know if you have observed any such thing. The Sun is the giver of knowledge too. Yajnavalkya got his Vedic knowledge from the Sun. Mayasura and even Hanuman were said to have received the knowledge of Astrology from the Sun. The Sun spurs all of us to learn things and to do things while the Moon being the ruler of mind allows us to think and retrospect. We have to respect the role of both the Sun and the Moon in our life. > > I do not know if what I wrote would be of help. I was quite curious to know that you have a Chemistry background too. Can you please let me know more about you and what are your interests. > > Best wishes, > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya. > > > > > --- On Wed, 4/8/09, Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@ hotmail.com> wrote: > > Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@ hotmail.com> > Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!> > > Wednesday, April 8, 2009, 4:33 PM > > Sunil Da, > > From your mouth to God's ears or at least to the Divinity that hides within all of us -- which is what I believe the so called Life-Force is! When trapped in a human shell of " maati " , the Divine force forms a living human being. Sadly, most often the maati/earth takes over. > > That said, I was always taken by the statement that I once read that in times of Mahabharata, enemies -- who were really friends, relatives and Gurubhais etc -- used to visit enemy camps after sundown without fear! Now, not being versed in ancient scriptural literature at all, perhaps such was not true and I am mis-guided. Please correct me if that is the case, since I have addressed you as Dada. > > A peasant like me would wonder, " Is it the Sun that makes humans fight? When the sun was up, the Mahabharata war was fierce and deadly, but when the Sun went down -- the war vanished and everyone became friend-relative- gurubhai again! What Maya! And they call Chandra, the Queen of the Night Mayavini! " > > So confusing to an astrologer, indeed! > > What is the truth? > > Rohini > > , Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote: > > > > Dear Rohini, > > > > Thank you for the good words. > > > > Yes the Rig Veda says that we are all brothers. But sometimes conflict does occur like it happened in the Mahabharata days and it happens these days too. We have to voice our concern and cannot remain indifferent to any wrong-doing. Then leave it at that. I think that this age is such that all knowledge will spread and people will be benefitted. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 4/6/09, Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@ ...> > > Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!> > > > > Monday, April 6, 2009, 6:34 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sunilda, > > > > Please kindly call me rohini, henceforth :-) > > If my own Dada, who was a gift in this lifetime to me and an absolutely unattainable Role Model, were alive today he would be about your age... > > > > Age aside, your wonderful accomplishments in science and particularly Chemistry that has always been so endearing to me, if only I had the brains for it :-) -- is wonderful to hear. Jyotish can certainly benefit from more scientists, from all disciplines -- and that is the catchword! Most people think and assume that scientists are simply disorganized, though creative geniuses who forget what or when they ate last or where they kept their socks (absent-minded professor stereotype!) but little does the general public realizes how ridiculously simplistic that perception is. > > > > It is commendable that after spending a long career in an intensive pursuit such as science is, you have chosen to focus your vast experience and readily obvious superior mental acumen to the pursuit of astrology/astronomy and to get to the roots of it. Actually to the roots of humanity in a sense! WE ALL sometimes overlook and ignore the obvious fact that at one time, long long long long time ago, there must have been just a few humans and not billions who were just carted down to planet earth in some space-shape as some newage SCI-FI lore has tried to convince us from time to time (since early 90's at least since I had been observing that ground-swell) . > > > > Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam was not an empty phrase, a mere pleasantry that was penned by some Ancient Elder just to assuage tensions or a 'feel-good' affirmation -- I think it was simply an expression of " knowing " , a wisdom that could only have come from a Parental Divine Source! > > > > Pranaams > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > , Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote: > > > > > > Dear Rohiniranjanji, > > > > > > I am sixty eight years old. I heard about you and I will be glad if you kindly let me know about your age etc. > > > > > > After my M.Sc. in Chemistry I underwent one year's training course in the Atomic Energy Establishment, Trombay (now BARC) and then joined that organisation as a scientist. Thereafter I moved to Chemical Industry. Much later, ie. towards the end of my career, I changed my field to Environmental engineering. I have interest in Indian Philosophy, Ancient Indian History and in Jyotish Shastra. In Jyotish shastra I have equal interest interest in Hindu astronomy and Hindu astrology. But astrology is really a big subject and in that I am somewhat like a beginner but I have come to realize the utility of Astrlogy and see that sooner the world realises its value better it will be. Astrology ia a boon to the humanity and that is why, even though I am not an expert in astrology, I do not like anybody condemning astrology without any basis like Shri Avtar Krishen Kaul isdoing. I came to know about Shri Vinay Jha first time in the AIA forum and he somehow > > > extricated himself from the bad situation he created for himself in the AIA. As Sreenadhji invited him to AIA he thought that everybody would worship him there without questioning. He claimed that he alone has the secret knowledge of Suryasiddhanta and he went on telling about such things, which he could not substantiate. However he was in for surprise as AIA, like any other sensible fora, the AIA members would not tolerate any baseless statement. > > > > > > I too feel now that there is no point in responding to his mails. If anybody is interested the old mails of the groups are there to refer to. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 4/5/09, Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@ ...> > > > Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!> > > > > > > Sunday, April 5, 2009, 7:28 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunil bhai/Dada, > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not know your age but you sound older than me ... > > > > > > > > > > > > Why is this Vinayji becoming so important to you? Each point that you shared with this forum of thousands of us ants -- had a reference to Vinayji. > > > > > > > > > > > > Who is this " Vinayji " who claims so much of your attention and energy and why should you think he should ours as well? > > > > > > > > > > > > At least in the post that I responded to? > > > > > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > > > > > , Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In all these Vinayji had conveyed to us that he cannot cite a single > > > > > > > reference to support his Saurpaksha and Drikpasha systems of Jyotisha. > > > > > > > I shall not insist on that hereafter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vinayji has overlooked my earlier mail where I said that like a yogi > > > > > > > has a physical body but can move about in his astral body so also > > > > > > > though the Sun has the physical body he can have another body to move > > > > > > > away from his physical body. That is how Surya might have come to Kunti > > > > > > > or to Mayasura. We know that Kashyapa rishi also had a son called > > > > > > > Vivasvan (Vivasvat). There was also another Surya rishi, who could also > > > > > > > have taught Mayasura. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vinayji had not read my paper carefully and that is why he is telling > > > > > > > that I was speculating on the date of Kalidasa. He had not seen how the > > > > > > > date of Kalidasa wasarrived at. If he did not agree then he could have > > > > > > > frankly told me like I tell him when I do not ahgree with him. If he > > > > > > > knows the date of Kalidasa correctly why does he not tell the group > > > > > > > about it with proof. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the AIA group Vinayji was boasting about his paper on 60-year cycle > > > > > > > of rain, which he claims to have presented in I.I.Sc. and he wanted to > > > > > > > give an interpretation reportedly based on Suryasiddhanta without > > > > > > > establishing any proper connection with Suryasiddhanta and no > > > > > > > appropriate verse from Suryasiddhanta was quoted there. Mind that > > > > > > > Vinayji's paper was only a presentation and there is already a paper > > > > > > > on that topic by the scientists Rajesh Agnihotri and Koushik Dutta, > > > > > > > published in a peer-riviewed Journal (Current Science, Vol.85, No.4, 25 > > > > > > > August,2003) , where the authors were saying about the 60-year > > > > > > > periodicity of Indian Monsoon. I told him that the 60-year Jupiter > > > > > > > cycle (when the Sun, the Moon and the Jupiter meet at the same point) > > > > > > > could be the main reason for this periodicity. In fact any astrologer > > > > > > > worth his salt may know about this cycle and even the Saturn comes to > > > > > > > its earlier position in 60-years after completing two 30-year cycles. > > > > > > > But Vinayji got afrronted. He should have explained to us in what way > > > > > > > his paper is different from the earlier works and the 60-year Jupiter > > > > > > > cycle but instead of that he flew in rage at our questioning the > > > > > > > newness in his work. He wants everybody to accept his claims as divine > > > > > > > truth and without questioning. He labels any questioning as a personal > > > > > > > attack on him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vinayji says > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You got the fact of eastward flow of Saptasindhu from me, and now you > > > > > > > will use it in your essays, without acknowledging me for being the > > > > > > > source of this information, and instead have already started abusing me after getting this information. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unquote > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let him quote what exactly I wrote in the AIA forum in my first mails > > > > > > > in response to his claim that eastward-flowing Saraswati started > > > > > > > flowing to the west and that will show him that his own memory is > > > > > > > playing tricks with him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He says I have not discussed astrology but I do so with others. Others > > > > > > > do not claim secret knowledge which cannot be divulged like Vinayji > > > > > > > does. He says only a tapasvi can have the secret knowledge (and by this > > > > > > > he implies that he is a tapasvi and therefore what he says must be > > > > > > > accepted unquestioningly) and I regret to have to express my inability > > > > > > > to discuss astrology with such a person claimihg to be sitting on a > > > > > > > vast storehose of ancient secret knowledge. If he comes down to the > > > > > > > normal human-level of sharing knowledge I should have no hesitation to > > > > > > > discuss astrology with him. However I must admit that am not a veteran > > > > > > > in astrology and I am just collecting pebbles on the shore. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vinayji compares his contribution with that of Chandrahariji. Not that > > > > > > > I agree with everything that Chandrahariji says but I appreciate that > > > > > > > Chandrahariji published papers in peer-reviewed journals against > > > > > > > Vinayji's papers, which were either just presented in conferences or > > > > > > > given in his own websites. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vinayji questioned as to what I contributed in astrology. I want to > > > > > > > assure Vinayji that I am still learning astrology and I do ask > > > > > > > questions like a student who wants to understand a subject and do not > > > > > > > claim to have mastered the subject. But I believe that I have right to > > > > > > > question anything what appears to me as mistranslation and > > > > > > > misinterpretation. I questioned Kaulji because he said that we cannot > > > > > > > call Indian astrology as Vedic astrology and that the Indians learnt > > > > > > > astrology from the Greeks and that Varahamihira had copied everything > > > > > > > from Sphridhvaj and Kaulji had called Varahamihira a charlatan. As a > > > > > > > student of Indian jyotisha I cannot tolerate that. He misinterpreted a > > > > > > > verse to interpret that Varahamihira accepted the superior knowledge of > > > > > > > the Geeks in astrology for which they command respect but actually that > > > > > > > verse meant just the reverse. Kaulji said that the astrologers are > > > > > > > Chandalas without knowing that any dishonest person in any profession > > > > > > > is a Chandala. He did not accept that astrology was known in the > > > > > > > ancient times in India though he himself said that Manu mentioned that > > > > > > > astrologers are not to be invited to participate in Devakarya and > > > > > > > Pitrikarya and he was withholding the fact the physicians and the > > > > > > > temple priest are also not to be invited for these ceremonies. Kaulji > > > > > > > did not know the proper dates of Vedanga jyotisha and I only protested > > > > > > > against that and told him what those dates should be. I am protesting > > > > > > > against such harms being done to astrology and Hindu civilization. > > > > > > > There are several such issues where I contested his knowledge. He may > > > > > > > know astrology but he must accept the human limitations in > > > > > > > interpreting the effects of the stars and not just condemn Hindu > > > > > > > astrology citing examples where the fake astrologers have failed. A > > > > > > > genuine astrologer tells his clients that the predictions are from his > > > > > > > past karmaphal and that his present karma is in his hand and that > > > > > > > present karma will have effect too. Hindu astrology is not fatalistic > > > > > > > but constructive. If something bad is likely to happen one can work > > > > > > > towards changing that. The basic purpose of Hindu astrology is to > > > > > > > change that if any bad thing is like to happen through some > > > > > > > counter-balancing good karma. Parashara and other greats had that > > > > > > > approach. Thus a good astrologer tries to make the predictions fail if > > > > > > > necessary and this failure is in fact a triumph of astrology. But > > > > > > > people like Kaulji does not have the insight to understand that. I have > > > > > > > devoted sometime to protest what Kaulji is saying lest he misguides > > > > > > > some of my gullible brothers and sisters by misinterpreting the > > > > > > > efficacy and the purpose of astrology. Kaulji should channelise his > > > > > > > energies properly and he must have respect for Hindu astrology. Jyotish > > > > > > > shastra contains both astronomy and astrology. So he cannot go on > > > > > > > condemning Hindu astrology and then go to rectify Hindu calendar. I > > > > > > > think that the past greats like Parashara had done tremendous work in > > > > > > > astrology and if we master those what they said would be enough at > > > > > > > least for people at ordinary level in which I am there as I do not > > > > > > > claim to be a great tapasvi like Vinayji thinks himself to be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Finally Vinayji may be a veteran in astrology and may have his admirers as he > > > > > > > very often quotes the names of many professors to prove that. I am just > > > > > > > a beginner in astrology and I cannot compare myself with Vinayji. I am > > > > > > > not claiming any superiority over Vinayji in astrology and I cannot assert that > > > > > > > myself as it is upto the others to say if I had made any contribution > > > > > > > so far and it is also upto them to judge where I stand vis-a-vis > > > > > > > Vinayji, if they have the time and desire to make any such comparison. > > > > > > > I am just putting forth my views as they have given me an opportunity > > > > > > > to do so, for which I am thankful to them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However I wish to ask Vinayji as to how can he say that I have not made any contribution in Science and Technology when I published a number of papers in peer-reviewed National and International Scientific and Technical journals of repute and presented a number of papers in big Scientific and Technical seminars and also have a number of patents to my credit. Mr. Vinayji with this sort of statement are you fulfilling your self-claimed vow that you would never lie? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards nevertheless, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunil. Bhattacharjya. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 4/5/09, vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16@ ...> > > > > > > > Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunday, April 5, 2009, 8:12 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To ALL : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since this thread may be read by other sincere members, I must add here > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that the very purpose of my joining any astrological forum was to show > > > > > > > > > > > > > > concrete proofs of both physical and non-physical astrology in a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > comparative manner. This cannot be done in an hostile environment > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deliberately being created by a person (Mr Sunil Bhattacharjya) who has > > > > > > > > > > > > > > made no contribution to either science or to astrology (although he > > > > > > > > > > > > > > writes on other topics, often good pieces) and is attacking me just out > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of misunderstanding, to put it mildly. I was surprised that my paper " A > > > > > > > > > > > > > > New Approach to Rain Forecasting " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (http://weatherindia .wetpaint. com/page/ A+New+approach+ to+Rain+Forecast in\ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > g) which was accepted by leading scientific institution of India made > > > > > > > > > > > > > > him believe that I was a cheat ! Why he did not inform IISc (Bangalore) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that I was a cheat ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Sunil ji : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You will get astrology from me if you talk astrology (which you never > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did), but rebuffs if you talk nonsense and level false charges on me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your uncivil words about me from my days in AIA upto your recent mail > > > > > > > > > > > > > > convinces me that you have no desire to learn either decency or other > > > > > > > > > > > > > > things you do not already know. I know your personal details and some of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your works. I do not like your manner of making unfounded assertions > > > > > > > > > > > > > > without providing reliable evidences. How one can write " the great poet > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kalidasa of the 8th century BCE in his drama Vikramorvashia " , without > > > > > > > > > > > > > > providing some reason of " 8th century BCE " dating ( cf. 'The dotted > > > > > > > > > > > > > > record and its effect on the Ancient Indian chronology, including the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > antiquity of the Veda and the Bhagavad Gita') !! One has a right to make > > > > > > > > > > > > > > discoveries, but not without providing reasons. If such a person asks me > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to provide proofs of my statements about topics which are beyond his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > field of interest, I can only be amused. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read my previous mails in which I have mentioned some of the older > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sources of Saurpaksha and Drikpaksha. Or ask some professor of any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanskrit university teaching the syllabus of Jyotishaachaarya, they will > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enlighten you. You will never understand difficult texts like > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Siddhaantatattvaviv eka of Kamlaakara Bhatta. The last verse of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Suryasiddhanta says it is " rahasyam brahma-sammitam " . Physical planets > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are not rahasyam brahma-sammitam , they are perceived by sages and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lechers alike. In the beginning of Suryasiddhanta, it is said that Lord > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Surya disappeared after talking to Mayaasura. Can the physical Sun do so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ?? If Suryasiddhanta is telling false and unscientific stories, why > > > > > > > > > > > > > > blame me for it ? Go and fight with Lord Surya for His false statements. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mayaasura had to undergo rigorous tapasyaa for seeing Lord Surya, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no mention of two or even one tola of wine as a part of such a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tapasyaa. Only a tapasvi can see Saurpaksha. Others may see only its > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With other members, I have seen you discussing astrology, but with me, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you are under an oath never to discuss astrology and deliberately want > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to get things out of me by abusing me. Now you are falsely calling me a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > liar. I did not call you a liar. You had challended that I lied about > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saptasindhu flowing eastward, and when I reluctantly showed you the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > proof, you started abusing me for " misinterpretation " . What I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > misinterpreted ? I provided merely an exact literal translation of the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > verse and gave no interpretation at all. You got the fact of eastward > > > > > > > > > > > > > > flow of Saptasindhu from me, and now you will use it in your essays, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > without acknowledging me for being the source of this information, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > instead have already started abusing me after getting this information. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a sign of your worthiness. I do not know your contribution to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > science, although you declare " I am a scientist " ! Having a degree and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > makes one a scientist ? My scientific papers accepted by world renowned > > > > > > > > > > > > > > institutions made me a liar and a cheat in your eyes !! Have you ever > > > > > > > > > > > > > > produced any scientific paper accepted by world class institutions ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In AIA, Mr Chandrahari was calling me a " cheat " and " unscientific " again > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and again, hence I was forced to show my scientific as well as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrological credentials ( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ NASA%27s_ Report%3B_ %26_my_Paper_ acc\ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > epted_by_CAOS% 2C_IISc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Credentials > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Vinay_Jha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://weatherindia .wetpaint. com/page/ A+New+approach+ to+Rain+Forecast ing\ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ?t=anon) , after which you started casting doubts over acceptance of my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > paper by CAOS, IISc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Instead of asking IISc and other institutions about the genuineness of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > evidences I showed, you started expressing unfounded doubts about my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > veracity and started attacking me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Instead of levelling baseless charges against me after viewing my works, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you should have asked me to show those weather forecasts which were > > > > > > > > > > > > > > approved by NASA and other institutions, and should have asked me to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > explain the methods behind those forecasts. I really wanted to discuss > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the methods and wanted to show proofs. But you discussed my supposedly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fake letters and false statements without proving that I was producing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fake papers. It shows how genuinely you are concerned about truth and it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also show how intolerant you are towards the achievements of someone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Instead of trying to understand the methods, you started attacking me > > > > > > > > > > > > > > personally. When I started a new thread in AIA named 'Tantric > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology' to explain the ancient methods of Yaamala Tantra used in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mundane astrology, you deliberately diverted the discussion to the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > benefits of wine, knowing well that a person avowed to lifelong > > > > > > > > > > > > > > brahmacharya would be forced to leave such discussions. You were never > > > > > > > > > > > > > > serious in any astrological discussion ; astrology is not your field ; I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wonder why you join astrological forums ! I left AIA due to wastage of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my time over false accusations and abuses from you and your friends. Now > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you want the same in this forum. Instead of discussing astrological > > > > > > > > > > > > > > topics, you want to discuss my character without providing any proof of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what I cheated or where I lied. The fact is opposite : you say two tolas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of wine maked a man divine, and I believe in the opposite : I subsist on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > one meal a day, having forsaken salt, spices, oils & c in foods, besides > > > > > > > > > > > > > > performing a lot of other things to purify myself. Why my way of life > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gives so much pain to you that you spend hours writing nonsense to me ?? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do some soul searching and devote your time to " (1) Ancient Indian > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chronology, (2) Finding the Original Shastu Tantra, (3) finding the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Original bhagavad Gita " , which you once declared to be your fields of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your language is getting from bad to worse. I promised I am not going to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tolerate your misbehaviour, because I am convinced you are avowed to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > disrupt any genuine ASTROLOGICAL topic I may ever discuss. I told you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > again and again that you must discuss astrology here, and not the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > benefits of wine & c or level personal attacks needlessly. I did not want > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to discuss anything with you, because your real intention was disruption > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of all astrological discussion and to harass me so that I leave all > > > > > > > > > > > > > > forums. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do not try to quote me falsely or out of context. I have 6749 mails in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my store to show your falsehood, why you are threatening me of show my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > supposedly false views on Saptasindhu. I am under an oath never to lie, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and I did not marry or go into any service because I did not want to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > compelled by circumstances to lie ever in my life. I know neither my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > words nor concrete evidences will never convince you, because you have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > an incurable negative attitude towards me due to my way of life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology is the mother of modern science, but astrology has been > > > > > > > > > > > > > > degraded. It is your disbelief in astrology that even good uses of it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are doubted by you. By insulting or attacking me , you will never get > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anyhing worthwhile out of me, even if I give it to you, because the real > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giver of knowledge is Lord Surya Whose existence you refuse to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > acknowledge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please calm down and some to senses. There are murderers, rapists, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dacoits in the world. Why all your anger is focussed on me ?? Search > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your own soul. You will find all three sets of Saptasindhus within your > > > > > > > > > > > > > > own Self. Try to understand the original meaning of the word " nadi " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ('river' is a Laukika meaning, find out the original Vedic meaning from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the root). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ============ ========= = ============ ======= > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Sunil Bhattacharjya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vinayji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just give one reference from ancient scriptures to prove about your > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saurapaksha and drikpaksha. I trust the scriptures more than your > > > > > > > > > > > > > > imaginary outpourings. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you want me to send the copies of my mails and your mails to the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > group to show who was lying on the Saptasindhu issue? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -SKB > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 4/4/09, Vinay Jha vinayjhaa16@ ... wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vinay Jha vinayjhaa16@ ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday, April 4, 2009, 7:14 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunilji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You do not know how difficult it is for me to control my words while I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > answer your mails. Now I must conclude your sole mission is to disrupt > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrological discussions. There are good articles on Sarasvati in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > internet where you can contribute ; this topic has no relation to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrology. You are lying that you found the verse yourself , I sent the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > verse to you. Moreover, I never misinterpreted the verse, I gave the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > literal translation while you believe your fancuful meanings to be the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > real translation. there is no mention of stormy conditions in that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > verse. literal translation and interpretation are different things. The > > > > > > > > > > > > > > point I made was that Saptasindhu was in the heartland of Aryavarta as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioned by Vyaasaji, but you buried that point under a false argument > > > > > > > > > > > > > > over your stormy conditions merely to poke fun at my supposedly wrong > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interpretation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your next point about Hartley and Burgess is a mere proof of your > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ignorance of Suryasiddhanta and of your blind faith on western > > > > > > > > > > > > > > commentators, as well as of your habit of producing false arguments with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a view to prove false things. Suryasiddhantic true Sun and true Moon > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have great difference with Sun and Moon of physical astronomy, but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Suryasiddhantic tithi has negligible difference with that of physical > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astronomy, because tithi is relative difference between Sun and Moon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Suryasiddhantic synodical lunar month is equal to 29.530587947 days, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > which is very near to modern value. Eclipses are related to synodical > > > > > > > > > > > > > > period, ie, to relative position of Sun and Moon. Hence Hartley found no > > > > > > > > > > > > > > much difference between timings of Suryasiddhantic eclipses and physical > > > > > > > > > > > > > > eclipses. i have used the term " no much difference " while you use therm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " accurately " which is a lie. But even if eclipses have no much > > > > > > > > > > > > > > difference, absolute position of true Sun or true Moon have great > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > differences, esp when we go into past. This difference increases at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the rate of 360 degrees in 42000 years. Another source of difference is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nearly 1.5 degrees of difference in mandaphal of Suryasiddhantic Moon > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and physical (Drikpakshiya) Moon. Third source is difference between the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > length of Suryasiddhantic solar year and Drikpakshiya year (sidereal ; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tropical year has less difference). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can live in your imaginary world of Maayaa believing in physical > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and sensory things. It is not my duty to enlighten you. That is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > always tried to hold information, and simply answered your false and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > motivated charges on me. If Vyaasaji talks about eclipses, you conclude > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he must talk about Drikpakshiya and not about Sauarpakshiya eclipses and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do noy feel any need to substantiate that physical reality is the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ultimate reality. Gita says that persons believing merely in the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > physical are destined to hell. If Lord Krishna could not save such > > > > > > > > > > > > > > persons, how can I ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My friend, you will now receive tit-for-tat replies for your foolish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mails. I will give information, proofs & c only when you come to believe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that astrological concepts must be proven astrologically and not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > physically. although I do not deem you fit for astrologiccal discussion, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am giving you an instance of what is astrological proof. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Make national horoscopes at the time of nirayana mesha samktaantis on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the basis of Drikpakshiya and Saurapakshiya computations, and compare > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the phalita results of both horoscopes along the principles of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Paraashara. You will find that Saurapakshiya predictions conform to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > actual events perfectly, while Drikpakshiya predictions bear no such > > > > > > > > > > > > > > relation to reality in an overwhelming majority of cases. I wasted > > > > > > > > > > > > > > decades on mutual comparison of Drikpakshiya and Saurapakshiya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > horoscopes in mundane and individual horoscopy, but you dismiss > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saurapaksha without any astrological investigation. You have no interest > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in astrological investigation of astrological entities. Suryasiddhanta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is an astrological treatise which has no relation to physical astronomy, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > which can be proven from the text itself, but it is better to undertake > > > > > > > > > > > > > > an unbiased comparison of Drikpakshiya and Saurapakshiya horoscopes to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > arrive at any conclusive finding. But you are too biased to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interested > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in any astrological investigation and are adamant on wasting my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > precious time. If you agree to test Suryasiddhanta " ASTROLOGICALLY " , I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will retract all my statements against you and will apologize for using > > > > > > > > > > > > > > harsh words, but if you are intent upon disrupting astrological > > > > > > > > > > > > > > discussion with non-astrological BAKAWAAS, I will use harsher words for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you in future, because an astrological forum should have no place for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > non-astrological nonsense. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a @> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cc: ancient_indian_ astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunday, April 5, 2009 2:50:48 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vinayji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you forget things. In AIA you wrote that Saraswati moved from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > east to west. Then I told you that at Paunta saheb one stream of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saraswati goes to meet Yamuna and it then moves eastward and that is how > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it is said that there is Triveni Sangam at Prayag. The other stream of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saraswati went westward to be one of the seven rivers (Saptasindhu) . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When I asked you the reference as to where you found that Saraswati > > > > > > > > > > > > > > changed direction fron east to west you did not give and stated that you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have no time. Later on you sent me a mail personally saying that you are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > going to write an article and even though the Mahabharata is in front of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you, you will not give me the reference. Then I found the verse in the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata and sent you the verse and told you how you mistranslated it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . That day when Lord Krishna was going to Hastinapur it was so stormy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that the eastward moving Saptasindhu (mind that Saraswati is not sataed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > here) appeared to move in the reverse > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction. I have only told you that the Vedas have mentioned more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > than one Saptasindhu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When I told you that Hartley could find out the date and time of the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > eclipses accurately from the Suryasiddhanta as edited by Burgess you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just ignored that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have no objection if you live with your imaginations as you have not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given any reference so far to substantiate what you say. Vedavyasa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > talked about the eclipses and their effects also and I am sure that he > > > > > > > > > > > > > > referred to the physical phenomena and these did not occur in your > > > > > > > > > > > > > > imaginary locations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 4/3/09, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Friday, April 3, 2009, 10:30 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunil ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe you are a sincere person, that is why I am answering your > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mails. But you are blindly following the teachings of western > > > > > > > > > > > > > > commentators who distorted traditional jyotisha. What you call " my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > imaginary " Saurpaksha is not my invention ; the concept of two Suns and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two Moons was present in Vedic and anti-Vedic variants of Indian > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrology from prehistoric times, and has continued to modern times. But > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with the progress of materialism, the case of Saurpaksha has weakened > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and a majority of persons do not want to get it discussed. I have no > > > > > > > > > > > > > > intention to persuade them, it is futile. If you do not believe in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saurpaksha, please keep away from me. Phalita Jyotisha is the only proof > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of Saurpaksha, because Saurpakshiya planets cannot be directly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > perceived, but you never wanted to " test " my assertions through > > > > > > > > > > > > > > practical analyses of horoscopes made along Drik and Saur methods, which > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is the only proper way to decide the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I already said that my computational ability is based upon mastery of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mathematical tables like log and antilog tables, which is not a magical > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or tantric feat. why are you angry at me if I committed the crime of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learning these tables by rote in my school days ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are wrong in asserting : " Your imagination about the separate > > > > > > > > > > > > > > locations of the physical planets and the presiding deities of the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets has not been mentioned in any ancient text. " If you have not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > read ancient texts, it is not my fault. You called me a liar about > > > > > > > > > > > > > > eastward flowing Saptasindhu, and I did not try to give you the verse > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because I wanted you to search that verse through the hint I provided. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But did not " waste " you time over my false claims. And when I provided > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the verse, you did not beg an apology for you uncivil remarks against > > > > > > > > > > > > > > me. Read your mails : have you ever used such a language for any other > > > > > > > > > > > > > > person in youtr life ? I used to read your messages to others in AIA and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was surprided with the difference. You have singled me out for ridicule. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The very concept of presiding deity of a planet is your inventiomn. It > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is supported neither by modern science nor by any astrological texts of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > repute. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You say : " Regarding ayanamsha as a Saurpaksha concept also you did > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not give any reference to back your statement. " Instead, you should > > > > > > > > > > > > > > provide a reference to back your wrong belief of ayanamsha being a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > concept of physical astronomy. Modern physical astronomy has a concept > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of precession of equinoxes, which was known to ancients. But they never > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called it ayanamsha. What they called ayanamsha was known as trapidation > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or libration, which is not a phenomenon of the physical world and was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > therefore rejected by astronomers after Copernicus. Till then, the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > socalled discovery of Hipparchus was rotting on papyrus. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you refrain from false charges on me and really want proofs, I can > > > > > > > > > > > > > > show you. But hitherto you have only wasted my time. For the last time, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I request you to test astrological concepts astrologically, or stop > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sending messages to me. I still believe you are a sincere person, as I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gather from your messages to others. It is only me who has a special > > > > > > > > > > > > > > treatment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you forget the past and stop referring to what you said or what I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said, things can get alright and you may be able to test the proofs I am > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ready to provide. But if your intention is merely to waste my time over > > > > > > > > > > > > > > personal feuds so that I leave all forums, I will request you to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > behave like a gentleman and forget me for ever. If you think my views > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are my inventions which will die with me, you are mistaken. The best > > > > > > > > > > > > > > works on Saurpaksha have never been translated into any language but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > form a part of syllabus of Jyotisharya in Sanskrit unuiversities. It is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > neither possible nor my duty to teach these obscure ancient texts here > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in forums. You should enrol in those universities where these > > > > > > > > > > > > > > texts are taught. But if you want verifiable proofs, I am willing to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > provide. But I am still sorry for your disbelief in my paper being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > accepted at CAOS, IISc. If I am a liar, how you will ever listen to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And without listening properly, how will ever know my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > views properly ? Hence, either stop all communication, or begin anew > > > > > > > > > > > > > > forgetting all past and talk on proofs only. Then I will be able to give > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you proofs. But if you continue wasting my time over useless matters, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > including present message, who will write down the proofs you ask me to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > supply ? I have many tasks at hand. I know you have a very low opinion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of me. You forget that I tolerated direct abuses by Mr Chandrahari till > > > > > > > > > > > > > > his last message to me. I tolerated him because I believed him to be an > > > > > > > > > > > > > > honest intellectual. Sreenadh led me to believe so. Sreenadh requested > > > > > > > > > > > > > > him to discuss the matters with me amicably without abusing, but failed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh sent me works of Mr Chandrahari, so that I could discuss his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ideas. After reading these works of Mr Chandrahari, i came to learn that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr Chandrahari was rendering a faulty interpretation of Suryasiddhanta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and was propagating a false concept of ayanamsha in the name of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Suryasiddhanta. Mr Chandrahari has every right > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to propound his views, but he has no right to falsely call his views > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Suryasiddhantic. Then I shot back at Mr Chandrahari, challenging him for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shaastraartha. As a result, Mr Chandrahari left the field and Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > started abusing and attacking me. Is it shaastraartha ? Who avoided a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > free and fair debate ? Who vitiated thje environment ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When I tried to avoid this unwanted controversy and started a new > > > > > > > > > > > > > > topic on tantric astrology, why a discussion on astrology was diverted > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to wine ? Did I start a discussion on the use of wine in astrology ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you really want proofs about foolproof methods of astrology, of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > existence of Saurpaksha, etc, you will have to read my articles on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tantric astrology. But if you remove " astrology " and discuss only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " tantra " , then I have no time for you. You do not know what you are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > missing, because you have consistently refused to listen, by diverting > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the issues. In future, please read my messages twice before answering. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no hurry. Do not answer in haste. I do not know you future, but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am going to live here for 35 years more. Forget that I am a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > brahmachaari, if you can check you references to wine. If you again > > > > > > > > > > > > > > start discussing the benefits of wine, I will have to say that it is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sinful for me to listen to such talks. It is an astrological forum and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no use of discussing wine in these forums. I am not belittling > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you, I am merely stating my limitations. I belonged to a rich and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > powerful family, and topped in science and later in English literature , > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > renounced worldly things for the sake of my salvation. I cannot > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tolerate things which are banned for a lifelong brahmachaari. If you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > want any discussion at all, you will have to remember my conditions. It > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is my last non-astrological message to you. Either talk astrology, or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > stop talking to me. I have no time for other things, esp personal feuds, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in these forums. Presently you are in a fighting mood. Hence, please > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rest for a few days and when your mood calms down, start discussing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrology, if you want. I have forgiven even obscene abuses (not from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you) to me in . But if think you never used foul words for me, I am > > > > > > > > > > > > > > forgiving you for the last time. I will not forgive any attempt to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > divert the discussion to non-astrological issues, even if you eulogize > > > > > > > > > > > > > > me. I care neither for abuses nor for praises. If you think you abused > > > > > > > > > > > > > > me or I abused you, please forget the past and start anew. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You main problem is that you want discussions with a software > > > > > > > > > > > > > > developer without touching his software, due to your prejudices about > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Suryasiddhanta. Ignorance can be cured (you are not ignorant), but there > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is no cure for prejudice (you are really prejudiced, I am not abusing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you, I really believe so). Forget subjective matters, and come to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrology objectively, and test objective proofs which I tried in vain > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to show under the title tantric astrology. Can I discuss that topic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > again, here ? But remember, I will not discuss ALL tantric astrology, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because it is a vast ocean and I have access only to a part of it. i am > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not omniscient. I will discuss only those things which I know well and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can substantiate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good Wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ============ ========= ==== ============ ========= ========= ========= > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a @> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cc: ancient_indian_ astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday, April 4, 2009 1:53:11 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vinayji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How physical astronomy can prove that a Shani in Vishakha can > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " torment " Rohini ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unquote > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought that you know that the Jyotish shastra includes both > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrology and physical astronomy and they are clubbed together as both > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are inter-related. Any astrologer worth his salt knows that Shani in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visakha can aspect Rohini. Vedavyasa did mention physical phenomena when > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he said the Sun was in Visakha and when he said about the eclipses > > > > > > > > > > > > > > within 13 days etc. anot your imaginary Saurpaksha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You said that to prove your mathematical ability you will have to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > travel round the world like Shakuntala Devi does. Far from it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shakuntala Devi does not tour the world to prove her ability. She gets > > > > > > > > > > > > > > invitation because of her mathemetical and other abilities. I said that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it will be better for you to prove it if you want others to believe in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what you say. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was the first to tell you in the AIA forum that according to Manu a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > married person can also become Brahmachari provided he restricts his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > physical intimaccies. That was in reply to your statement that you have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > insight into Suryasiddhanta only because you are meeting the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > requirements such as remaining unmarried and being a life-long > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Brahmachari and that you take one meal a day and follow all the required > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rules and that you do not sleep in the night etc. and you wanted all to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > believe in these claims of yours. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your imagination about the separate locations of the physical planets > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and the presiding deities of the planets has not been mentioned in any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ancient text. Without any text reference from the shastras how do you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > want us to aacept it just because you think so or your guru has told you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so? The presiding deity of a planet can move like a yogi can move > > > > > > > > > > > > > > through his astral body but like the yogi cannot really abandon his body > > > > > > > > > > > > > > until he leaves the body for good.so also the planet has a physical > > > > > > > > > > > > > > identity. One cannot separate the physical identity from the planet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding ayanamsha as a Saurpaksha concept also you did not give any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > reference to back your statement. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You do not know the meaning of the phrase " good riddance " . When you > > > > > > > > > & gt%3 > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 Regret to have to point out that @Vinay Jha has not not given any proof of the date of Agnimitra as ~160 BCE. -SKB --- On Thu, 4/9/09, vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16 wrote: vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16 Re: Greeks vs Indians Thursday, April 9, 2009, 6:08 AM @Sunil Bhattacharjya Ji : In his article 'The dotted record and its effect on the Ancient Indian chronology, including the antiquity of the Veda and the Bhagavad Gita', I found Mr Sunil Bhattacharyja' s words " the great poet Kalidasa of the 8th century BCE in his drama Vikramorvashia " . He ignored the fact that the protagonist of his drama Maalvikaa-agimitra was Agnimitra, son of Pushyamitra Sunga. Agnimitra's date is ~160 BC. Hence, Kalidasa must have lived after 150 BC in any case. If we accept Mr Sunil Bhattacharyja' s dating of Kalidasa, The Budhha and entire Indian chronology will have to be pushed back by at least 7 centuries, because Agnimitra Sunga will need to be placed around 800 BC. And what about Alexander ? Entire world history needs to be rewritten. I request Sunil Dada to consider my humble point with condescension. -VJ ============ == ============ === , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote: > > " Bharat-varshis of those times believed that fighting may be necessary over some issues but basically all are friends. " > > Well said !! May we follow this rule ? > > > -vj > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a > > Thursday, April 9, 2009 6:17:06 AM > Re: Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!> > > > > > > Dear Rohini, > > Yes. Manu, the first law-giver, had prescribed the rules of the war and one rule among those was that a person must warn his opponent about the intention to fight (ie. to fight it out, over whatever be the cause, for which fighting may be considered necessary). A person has to fight only with the opponent only if the latter is prepared for the fight. One should not attack an unarmed opponent, even though there is enmity between them. You might have read in the Bhagavad Gita that at the end of the first chapter Arjuna laid down his arms. Then in the beginning of the next (ie.second) chapter he requested Lord Krishna for guidance and the Lord could impart the lessons of the Bhagavad Gita to Arjuna, even though it was in the middle of the battle field, simply because Arjuna was unarmed and Bhishma, the commander of the Kaurava army, was a law-abiding person and he would not allow any attack from the Kaurava side on the unarmed > Arjuna. Many scholars, who do not know this, wonder as to how the Bhagavad Gita could have been delivered in the battle-field. > > Manu gave some more rules for the war. Then just before the Mahabharata war some additional rules were made, such as that after the battle is over for the day all would be friends again till the battle was resumed on the next day. In Mahabharata you will find that after framing these rules they themselves were surprised that they have made such rules.These rules were strictly observed till Bhishma was in command and later on however there were many breaches of the rules. > > One thing stands out from this that the Bharat-vashis of those times believed that fighting may be necessary over some issues but basically all are friends. Of course there were some black sheeps like Duryodhana who did not inherently believe in the rules as he made his own rules and in the end he did not gain anything by that attitude. > > As regards your second query the Sun is the source of all energy and all interplay of energy is possible due to the Sun. Curiously it is said that the number one (numerologically) people are generally more energetic than the other people, when the Sun rises and they become tired or lethargic towards the end of the day when the Sun sets. Please let me know if you have observed any such thing. The Sun is the giver of knowledge too. Yajnavalkya got his Vedic knowledge from the Sun. Mayasura and even Hanuman were said to have received the knowledge of Astrology from the Sun. The Sun spurs all of us to learn things and to do things while the Moon being the ruler of mind allows us to think and retrospect. We have to respect the role of both the Sun and the Moon in our life. > > I do not know if what I wrote would be of help. I was quite curious to know that you have a Chemistry background too. Can you please let me know more about you and what are your interests. > > Best wishes, > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya. > > > > > --- On Wed, 4/8/09, Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@ hotmail.com> wrote: > > Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@ hotmail.com> > Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!> > > Wednesday, April 8, 2009, 4:33 PM > > Sunil Da, > > From your mouth to God's ears or at least to the Divinity that hides within all of us -- which is what I believe the so called Life-Force is! When trapped in a human shell of " maati " , the Divine force forms a living human being. Sadly, most often the maati/earth takes over. > > That said, I was always taken by the statement that I once read that in times of Mahabharata, enemies -- who were really friends, relatives and Gurubhais etc -- used to visit enemy camps after sundown without fear! Now, not being versed in ancient scriptural literature at all, perhaps such was not true and I am mis-guided. Please correct me if that is the case, since I have addressed you as Dada. > > A peasant like me would wonder, " Is it the Sun that makes humans fight? When the sun was up, the Mahabharata war was fierce and deadly, but when the Sun went down -- the war vanished and everyone became friend-relative- gurubhai again! What Maya! And they call Chandra, the Queen of the Night Mayavini! " > > So confusing to an astrologer, indeed! > > What is the truth? > > Rohini > > , Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote: > > > > Dear Rohini, > > > > Thank you for the good words. > > > > Yes the Rig Veda says that we are all brothers. But sometimes conflict does occur like it happened in the Mahabharata days and it happens these days too. We have to voice our concern and cannot remain indifferent to any wrong-doing. Then leave it at that. I think that this age is such that all knowledge will spread and people will be benefitted. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 4/6/09, Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@ ...> > > Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!> > > > > Monday, April 6, 2009, 6:34 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sunilda, > > > > Please kindly call me rohini, henceforth :-) > > If my own Dada, who was a gift in this lifetime to me and an absolutely unattainable Role Model, were alive today he would be about your age... > > > > Age aside, your wonderful accomplishments in science and particularly Chemistry that has always been so endearing to me, if only I had the brains for it :-) -- is wonderful to hear. Jyotish can certainly benefit from more scientists, from all disciplines -- and that is the catchword! Most people think and assume that scientists are simply disorganized, though creative geniuses who forget what or when they ate last or where they kept their socks (absent-minded professor stereotype!) but little does the general public realizes how ridiculously simplistic that perception is. > > > > It is commendable that after spending a long career in an intensive pursuit such as science is, you have chosen to focus your vast experience and readily obvious superior mental acumen to the pursuit of astrology/astronomy and to get to the roots of it. Actually to the roots of humanity in a sense! WE ALL sometimes overlook and ignore the obvious fact that at one time, long long long long time ago, there must have been just a few humans and not billions who were just carted down to planet earth in some space-shape as some newage SCI-FI lore has tried to convince us from time to time (since early 90's at least since I had been observing that ground-swell) . > > > > Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam was not an empty phrase, a mere pleasantry that was penned by some Ancient Elder just to assuage tensions or a 'feel-good' affirmation -- I think it was simply an expression of " knowing " , a wisdom that could only have come from a Parental Divine Source! > > > > Pranaams > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > , Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote: > > > > > > Dear Rohiniranjanji, > > > > > > I am sixty eight years old. I heard about you and I will be glad if you kindly let me know about your age etc. > > > > > > After my M.Sc. in Chemistry I underwent one year's training course in the Atomic Energy Establishment, Trombay (now BARC) and then joined that organisation as a scientist. Thereafter I moved to Chemical Industry. Much later, ie. towards the end of my career, I changed my field to Environmental engineering. I have interest in Indian Philosophy, Ancient Indian History and in Jyotish Shastra. In Jyotish shastra I have equal interest interest in Hindu astronomy and Hindu astrology. But astrology is really a big subject and in that I am somewhat like a beginner but I have come to realize the utility of Astrlogy and see that sooner the world realises its value better it will be. Astrology ia a boon to the humanity and that is why, even though I am not an expert in astrology, I do not like anybody condemning astrology without any basis like Shri Avtar Krishen Kaul isdoing. I came to know about Shri Vinay Jha first time in the AIA forum and he somehow > > > extricated himself from the bad situation he created for himself in the AIA. As Sreenadhji invited him to AIA he thought that everybody would worship him there without questioning. He claimed that he alone has the secret knowledge of Suryasiddhanta and he went on telling about such things, which he could not substantiate. However he was in for surprise as AIA, like any other sensible fora, the AIA members would not tolerate any baseless statement. > > > > > > I too feel now that there is no point in responding to his mails. If anybody is interested the old mails of the groups are there to refer to. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 4/5/09, Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@ ...> > > > Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!> > > > > > > Sunday, April 5, 2009, 7:28 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunil bhai/Dada, > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not know your age but you sound older than me ... > > > > > > > > > > > > Why is this Vinayji becoming so important to you? Each point that you shared with this forum of thousands of us ants -- had a reference to Vinayji. > > > > > > > > > > > > Who is this " Vinayji " who claims so much of your attention and energy and why should you think he should ours as well? > > > > > > > > > > > > At least in the post that I responded to? > > > > > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > > > > > , Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In all these Vinayji had conveyed to us that he cannot cite a single > > > > > > > reference to support his Saurpaksha and Drikpasha systems of Jyotisha. > > > > > > > I shall not insist on that hereafter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vinayji has overlooked my earlier mail where I said that like a yogi > > > > > > > has a physical body but can move about in his astral body so also > > > > > > > though the Sun has the physical body he can have another body to move > > > > > > > away from his physical body. That is how Surya might have come to Kunti > > > > > > > or to Mayasura. We know that Kashyapa rishi also had a son called > > > > > > > Vivasvan (Vivasvat). There was also another Surya rishi, who could also > > > > > > > have taught Mayasura. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vinayji had not read my paper carefully and that is why he is telling > > > > > > > that I was speculating on the date of Kalidasa. He had not seen how the > > > > > > > date of Kalidasa wasarrived at. If he did not agree then he could have > > > > > > > frankly told me like I tell him when I do not ahgree with him. If he > > > > > > > knows the date of Kalidasa correctly why does he not tell the group > > > > > > > about it with proof. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the AIA group Vinayji was boasting about his paper on 60-year cycle > > > > > > > of rain, which he claims to have presented in I.I.Sc. and he wanted to > > > > > > > give an interpretation reportedly based on Suryasiddhanta without > > > > > > > establishing any proper connection with Suryasiddhanta and no > > > > > > > appropriate verse from Suryasiddhanta was quoted there. Mind that > > > > > > > Vinayji's paper was only a presentation and there is already a paper > > > > > > > on that topic by the scientists Rajesh Agnihotri and Koushik Dutta, > > > > > > > published in a peer-riviewed Journal (Current Science, Vol.85, No.4, 25 > > > > > > > August,2003) , where the authors were saying about the 60-year > > > > > > > periodicity of Indian Monsoon. I told him that the 60-year Jupiter > > > > > > > cycle (when the Sun, the Moon and the Jupiter meet at the same point) > > > > > > > could be the main reason for this periodicity. In fact any astrologer > > > > > > > worth his salt may know about this cycle and even the Saturn comes to > > > > > > > its earlier position in 60-years after completing two 30-year cycles. > > > > > > > But Vinayji got afrronted. He should have explained to us in what way > > > > > > > his paper is different from the earlier works and the 60-year Jupiter > > > > > > > cycle but instead of that he flew in rage at our questioning the > > > > > > > newness in his work. He wants everybody to accept his claims as divine > > > > > > > truth and without questioning. He labels any questioning as a personal > > > > > > > attack on him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vinayji says > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You got the fact of eastward flow of Saptasindhu from me, and now you > > > > > > > will use it in your essays, without acknowledging me for being the > > > > > > > source of this information, and instead have already started abusing me after getting this information. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unquote > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let him quote what exactly I wrote in the AIA forum in my first mails > > > > > > > in response to his claim that eastward-flowing Saraswati started > > > > > > > flowing to the west and that will show him that his own memory is > > > > > > > playing tricks with him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He says I have not discussed astrology but I do so with others. Others > > > > > > > do not claim secret knowledge which cannot be divulged like Vinayji > > > > > > > does. He says only a tapasvi can have the secret knowledge (and by this > > > > > > > he implies that he is a tapasvi and therefore what he says must be > > > > > > > accepted unquestioningly) and I regret to have to express my inability > > > > > > > to discuss astrology with such a person claimihg to be sitting on a > > > > > > > vast storehose of ancient secret knowledge. If he comes down to the > > > > > > > normal human-level of sharing knowledge I should have no hesitation to > > > > > > > discuss astrology with him. However I must admit that am not a veteran > > > > > > > in astrology and I am just collecting pebbles on the shore. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vinayji compares his contribution with that of Chandrahariji. Not that > > > > > > > I agree with everything that Chandrahariji says but I appreciate that > > > > > > > Chandrahariji published papers in peer-reviewed journals against > > > > > > > Vinayji's papers, which were either just presented in conferences or > > > > > > > given in his own websites. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vinayji questioned as to what I contributed in astrology. I want to > > > > > > > assure Vinayji that I am still learning astrology and I do ask > > > > > > > questions like a student who wants to understand a subject and do not > > > > > > > claim to have mastered the subject. But I believe that I have right to > > > > > > > question anything what appears to me as mistranslation and > > > > > > > misinterpretation. I questioned Kaulji because he said that we cannot > > > > > > > call Indian astrology as Vedic astrology and that the Indians learnt > > > > > > > astrology from the Greeks and that Varahamihira had copied everything > > > > > > > from Sphridhvaj and Kaulji had called Varahamihira a charlatan. As a > > > > > > > student of Indian jyotisha I cannot tolerate that. He misinterpreted a > > > > > > > verse to interpret that Varahamihira accepted the superior knowledge of > > > > > > > the Geeks in astrology for which they command respect but actually that > > > > > > > verse meant just the reverse. Kaulji said that the astrologers are > > > > > > > Chandalas without knowing that any dishonest person in any profession > > > > > > > is a Chandala. He did not accept that astrology was known in the > > > > > > > ancient times in India though he himself said that Manu mentioned that > > > > > > > astrologers are not to be invited to participate in Devakarya and > > > > > > > Pitrikarya and he was withholding the fact the physicians and the > > > > > > > temple priest are also not to be invited for these ceremonies. Kaulji > > > > > > > did not know the proper dates of Vedanga jyotisha and I only protested > > > > > > > against that and told him what those dates should be. I am protesting > > > > > > > against such harms being done to astrology and Hindu civilization. > > > > > > > There are several such issues where I contested his knowledge. He may > > > > > > > know astrology but he must accept the human limitations in > > > > > > > interpreting the effects of the stars and not just condemn Hindu > > > > > > > astrology citing examples where the fake astrologers have failed. A > > > > > > > genuine astrologer tells his clients that the predictions are from his > > > > > > > past karmaphal and that his present karma is in his hand and that > > > > > > > present karma will have effect too. Hindu astrology is not fatalistic > > > > > > > but constructive. If something bad is likely to happen one can work > > > > > > > towards changing that. The basic purpose of Hindu astrology is to > > > > > > > change that if any bad thing is like to happen through some > > > > > > > counter-balancing good karma. Parashara and other greats had that > > > > > > > approach. Thus a good astrologer tries to make the predictions fail if > > > > > > > necessary and this failure is in fact a triumph of astrology. But > > > > > > > people like Kaulji does not have the insight to understand that. I have > > > > > > > devoted sometime to protest what Kaulji is saying lest he misguides > > > > > > > some of my gullible brothers and sisters by misinterpreting the > > > > > > > efficacy and the purpose of astrology. Kaulji should channelise his > > > > > > > energies properly and he must have respect for Hindu astrology. Jyotish > > > > > > > shastra contains both astronomy and astrology. So he cannot go on > > > > > > > condemning Hindu astrology and then go to rectify Hindu calendar. I > > > > > > > think that the past greats like Parashara had done tremendous work in > > > > > > > astrology and if we master those what they said would be enough at > > > > > > > least for people at ordinary level in which I am there as I do not > > > > > > > claim to be a great tapasvi like Vinayji thinks himself to be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Finally Vinayji may be a veteran in astrology and may have his admirers as he > > > > > > > very often quotes the names of many professors to prove that. I am just > > > > > > > a beginner in astrology and I cannot compare myself with Vinayji. I am > > > > > > > not claiming any superiority over Vinayji in astrology and I cannot assert that > > > > > > > myself as it is upto the others to say if I had made any contribution > > > > > > > so far and it is also upto them to judge where I stand vis-a-vis > > > > > > > Vinayji, if they have the time and desire to make any such comparison. > > > > > > > I am just putting forth my views as they have given me an opportunity > > > > > > > to do so, for which I am thankful to them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However I wish to ask Vinayji as to how can he say that I have not made any contribution in Science and Technology when I published a number of papers in peer-reviewed National and International Scientific and Technical journals of repute and presented a number of papers in big Scientific and Technical seminars and also have a number of patents to my credit. Mr. Vinayji with this sort of statement are you fulfilling your self-claimed vow that you would never lie? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards nevertheless, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunil. Bhattacharjya. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 4/5/09, vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16@ ...> > > > > > > > Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunday, April 5, 2009, 8:12 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 Regret to have to point out that @Vinay Jha has not not given any proof of the date of Agnimitra as ~160 BCE. -SKB --- On Thu, 4/9/09, vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16 wrote: vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16 Re: Greeks vs Indians Thursday, April 9, 2009, 6:08 AM @Sunil Bhattacharjya Ji : In his article 'The dotted record and its effect on the Ancient Indian chronology, including the antiquity of the Veda and the Bhagavad Gita', I found Mr Sunil Bhattacharyja' s words " the great poet Kalidasa of the 8th century BCE in his drama Vikramorvashia " . He ignored the fact that the protagonist of his drama Maalvikaa-agimitra was Agnimitra, son of Pushyamitra Sunga. Agnimitra's date is ~160 BC. Hence, Kalidasa must have lived after 150 BC in any case. If we accept Mr Sunil Bhattacharyja' s dating of Kalidasa, The Budhha and entire Indian chronology will have to be pushed back by at least 7 centuries, because Agnimitra Sunga will need to be placed around 800 BC. And what about Alexander ? Entire world history needs to be rewritten. I request Sunil Dada to consider my humble point with condescension. -VJ ============ == ============ === , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote: > > " Bharat-varshis of those times believed that fighting may be necessary over some issues but basically all are friends. " > > Well said !! May we follow this rule ? > > > -vj > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a > > Thursday, April 9, 2009 6:17:06 AM > Re: Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!> > > > > > > Dear Rohini, > > Yes. Manu, the first law-giver, had prescribed the rules of the war and one rule among those was that a person must warn his opponent about the intention to fight (ie. to fight it out, over whatever be the cause, for which fighting may be considered necessary). A person has to fight only with the opponent only if the latter is prepared for the fight. One should not attack an unarmed opponent, even though there is enmity between them. You might have read in the Bhagavad Gita that at the end of the first chapter Arjuna laid down his arms. Then in the beginning of the next (ie.second) chapter he requested Lord Krishna for guidance and the Lord could impart the lessons of the Bhagavad Gita to Arjuna, even though it was in the middle of the battle field, simply because Arjuna was unarmed and Bhishma, the commander of the Kaurava army, was a law-abiding person and he would not allow any attack from the Kaurava side on the unarmed > Arjuna. Many scholars, who do not know this, wonder as to how the Bhagavad Gita could have been delivered in the battle-field. > > Manu gave some more rules for the war. Then just before the Mahabharata war some additional rules were made, such as that after the battle is over for the day all would be friends again till the battle was resumed on the next day. In Mahabharata you will find that after framing these rules they themselves were surprised that they have made such rules.These rules were strictly observed till Bhishma was in command and later on however there were many breaches of the rules. > > One thing stands out from this that the Bharat-vashis of those times believed that fighting may be necessary over some issues but basically all are friends. Of course there were some black sheeps like Duryodhana who did not inherently believe in the rules as he made his own rules and in the end he did not gain anything by that attitude. > > As regards your second query the Sun is the source of all energy and all interplay of energy is possible due to the Sun. Curiously it is said that the number one (numerologically) people are generally more energetic than the other people, when the Sun rises and they become tired or lethargic towards the end of the day when the Sun sets. Please let me know if you have observed any such thing. The Sun is the giver of knowledge too. Yajnavalkya got his Vedic knowledge from the Sun. Mayasura and even Hanuman were said to have received the knowledge of Astrology from the Sun. The Sun spurs all of us to learn things and to do things while the Moon being the ruler of mind allows us to think and retrospect. We have to respect the role of both the Sun and the Moon in our life. > > I do not know if what I wrote would be of help. I was quite curious to know that you have a Chemistry background too. Can you please let me know more about you and what are your interests. > > Best wishes, > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya. > > > > > --- On Wed, 4/8/09, Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@ hotmail.com> wrote: > > Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@ hotmail.com> > Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!> > > Wednesday, April 8, 2009, 4:33 PM > > Sunil Da, > > From your mouth to God's ears or at least to the Divinity that hides within all of us -- which is what I believe the so called Life-Force is! When trapped in a human shell of " maati " , the Divine force forms a living human being. Sadly, most often the maati/earth takes over. > > That said, I was always taken by the statement that I once read that in times of Mahabharata, enemies -- who were really friends, relatives and Gurubhais etc -- used to visit enemy camps after sundown without fear! Now, not being versed in ancient scriptural literature at all, perhaps such was not true and I am mis-guided. Please correct me if that is the case, since I have addressed you as Dada. > > A peasant like me would wonder, " Is it the Sun that makes humans fight? When the sun was up, the Mahabharata war was fierce and deadly, but when the Sun went down -- the war vanished and everyone became friend-relative- gurubhai again! What Maya! And they call Chandra, the Queen of the Night Mayavini! " > > So confusing to an astrologer, indeed! > > What is the truth? > > Rohini > > , Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote: > > > > Dear Rohini, > > > > Thank you for the good words. > > > > Yes the Rig Veda says that we are all brothers. But sometimes conflict does occur like it happened in the Mahabharata days and it happens these days too. We have to voice our concern and cannot remain indifferent to any wrong-doing. Then leave it at that. I think that this age is such that all knowledge will spread and people will be benefitted. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 4/6/09, Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@ ...> > > Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!> > > > > Monday, April 6, 2009, 6:34 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sunilda, > > > > Please kindly call me rohini, henceforth :-) > > If my own Dada, who was a gift in this lifetime to me and an absolutely unattainable Role Model, were alive today he would be about your age... > > > > Age aside, your wonderful accomplishments in science and particularly Chemistry that has always been so endearing to me, if only I had the brains for it :-) -- is wonderful to hear. Jyotish can certainly benefit from more scientists, from all disciplines -- and that is the catchword! Most people think and assume that scientists are simply disorganized, though creative geniuses who forget what or when they ate last or where they kept their socks (absent-minded professor stereotype!) but little does the general public realizes how ridiculously simplistic that perception is. > > > > It is commendable that after spending a long career in an intensive pursuit such as science is, you have chosen to focus your vast experience and readily obvious superior mental acumen to the pursuit of astrology/astronomy and to get to the roots of it. Actually to the roots of humanity in a sense! WE ALL sometimes overlook and ignore the obvious fact that at one time, long long long long time ago, there must have been just a few humans and not billions who were just carted down to planet earth in some space-shape as some newage SCI-FI lore has tried to convince us from time to time (since early 90's at least since I had been observing that ground-swell) . > > > > Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam was not an empty phrase, a mere pleasantry that was penned by some Ancient Elder just to assuage tensions or a 'feel-good' affirmation -- I think it was simply an expression of " knowing " , a wisdom that could only have come from a Parental Divine Source! > > > > Pranaams > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > , Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote: > > > > > > Dear Rohiniranjanji, > > > > > > I am sixty eight years old. I heard about you and I will be glad if you kindly let me know about your age etc. > > > > > > After my M.Sc. in Chemistry I underwent one year's training course in the Atomic Energy Establishment, Trombay (now BARC) and then joined that organisation as a scientist. Thereafter I moved to Chemical Industry. Much later, ie. towards the end of my career, I changed my field to Environmental engineering. I have interest in Indian Philosophy, Ancient Indian History and in Jyotish Shastra. In Jyotish shastra I have equal interest interest in Hindu astronomy and Hindu astrology. But astrology is really a big subject and in that I am somewhat like a beginner but I have come to realize the utility of Astrlogy and see that sooner the world realises its value better it will be. Astrology ia a boon to the humanity and that is why, even though I am not an expert in astrology, I do not like anybody condemning astrology without any basis like Shri Avtar Krishen Kaul isdoing. I came to know about Shri Vinay Jha first time in the AIA forum and he somehow > > > extricated himself from the bad situation he created for himself in the AIA. As Sreenadhji invited him to AIA he thought that everybody would worship him there without questioning. He claimed that he alone has the secret knowledge of Suryasiddhanta and he went on telling about such things, which he could not substantiate. However he was in for surprise as AIA, like any other sensible fora, the AIA members would not tolerate any baseless statement. > > > > > > I too feel now that there is no point in responding to his mails. If anybody is interested the old mails of the groups are there to refer to. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 4/5/09, Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@ ...> > > > Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!> > > > > > > Sunday, April 5, 2009, 7:28 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunil bhai/Dada, > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not know your age but you sound older than me ... > > > > > > > > > > > > Why is this Vinayji becoming so important to you? Each point that you shared with this forum of thousands of us ants -- had a reference to Vinayji. > > > > > > > > > > > > Who is this " Vinayji " who claims so much of your attention and energy and why should you think he should ours as well? > > > > > > > > > > > > At least in the post that I responded to? > > > > > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > > > > > , Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In all these Vinayji had conveyed to us that he cannot cite a single > > > > > > > reference to support his Saurpaksha and Drikpasha systems of Jyotisha. > > > > > > > I shall not insist on that hereafter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vinayji has overlooked my earlier mail where I said that like a yogi > > > > > > > has a physical body but can move about in his astral body so also > > > > > > > though the Sun has the physical body he can have another body to move > > > > > > > away from his physical body. That is how Surya might have come to Kunti > > > > > > > or to Mayasura. We know that Kashyapa rishi also had a son called > > > > > > > Vivasvan (Vivasvat). There was also another Surya rishi, who could also > > > > > > > have taught Mayasura. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vinayji had not read my paper carefully and that is why he is telling > > > > > > > that I was speculating on the date of Kalidasa. He had not seen how the > > > > > > > date of Kalidasa wasarrived at. If he did not agree then he could have > > > > > > > frankly told me like I tell him when I do not ahgree with him. If he > > > > > > > knows the date of Kalidasa correctly why does he not tell the group > > > > > > > about it with proof. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the AIA group Vinayji was boasting about his paper on 60-year cycle > > > > > > > of rain, which he claims to have presented in I.I.Sc. and he wanted to > > > > > > > give an interpretation reportedly based on Suryasiddhanta without > > > > > > > establishing any proper connection with Suryasiddhanta and no > > > > > > > appropriate verse from Suryasiddhanta was quoted there. Mind that > > > > > > > Vinayji's paper was only a presentation and there is already a paper > > > > > > > on that topic by the scientists Rajesh Agnihotri and Koushik Dutta, > > > > > > > published in a peer-riviewed Journal (Current Science, Vol.85, No.4, 25 > > > > > > > August,2003) , where the authors were saying about the 60-year > > > > > > > periodicity of Indian Monsoon. I told him that the 60-year Jupiter > > > > > > > cycle (when the Sun, the Moon and the Jupiter meet at the same point) > > > > > > > could be the main reason for this periodicity. In fact any astrologer > > > > > > > worth his salt may know about this cycle and even the Saturn comes to > > > > > > > its earlier position in 60-years after completing two 30-year cycles. > > > > > > > But Vinayji got afrronted. He should have explained to us in what way > > > > > > > his paper is different from the earlier works and the 60-year Jupiter > > > > > > > cycle but instead of that he flew in rage at our questioning the > > > > > > > newness in his work. He wants everybody to accept his claims as divine > > > > > > > truth and without questioning. He labels any questioning as a personal > > > > > > > attack on him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vinayji says > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You got the fact of eastward flow of Saptasindhu from me, and now you > > > > > > > will use it in your essays, without acknowledging me for being the > > > > > > > source of this information, and instead have already started abusing me after getting this information. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unquote > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let him quote what exactly I wrote in the AIA forum in my first mails > > > > > > > in response to his claim that eastward-flowing Saraswati started > > > > > > > flowing to the west and that will show him that his own memory is > > > > > > > playing tricks with him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He says I have not discussed astrology but I do so with others. Others > > > > > > > do not claim secret knowledge which cannot be divulged like Vinayji > > > > > > > does. He says only a tapasvi can have the secret knowledge (and by this > > > > > > > he implies that he is a tapasvi and therefore what he says must be > > > > > > > accepted unquestioningly) and I regret to have to express my inability > > > > > > > to discuss astrology with such a person claimihg to be sitting on a > > > > > > > vast storehose of ancient secret knowledge. If he comes down to the > > > > > > > normal human-level of sharing knowledge I should have no hesitation to > > > > > > > discuss astrology with him. However I must admit that am not a veteran > > > > > > > in astrology and I am just collecting pebbles on the shore. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vinayji compares his contribution with that of Chandrahariji. Not that > > > > > > > I agree with everything that Chandrahariji says but I appreciate that > > > > > > > Chandrahariji published papers in peer-reviewed journals against > > > > > > > Vinayji's papers, which were either just presented in conferences or > > > > > > > given in his own websites. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vinayji questioned as to what I contributed in astrology. I want to > > > > > > > assure Vinayji that I am still learning astrology and I do ask > > > > > > > questions like a student who wants to understand a subject and do not > > > > > > > claim to have mastered the subject. But I believe that I have right to > > > > > > > question anything what appears to me as mistranslation and > > > > > > > misinterpretation. I questioned Kaulji because he said that we cannot > > > > > > > call Indian astrology as Vedic astrology and that the Indians learnt > > > > > > > astrology from the Greeks and that Varahamihira had copied everything > > > > > > > from Sphridhvaj and Kaulji had called Varahamihira a charlatan. As a > > > > > > > student of Indian jyotisha I cannot tolerate that. He misinterpreted a > > > > > > > verse to interpret that Varahamihira accepted the superior knowledge of > > > > > > > the Geeks in astrology for which they command respect but actually that > > > > > > > verse meant just the reverse. Kaulji said that the astrologers are > > > > > > > Chandalas without knowing that any dishonest person in any profession > > > > > > > is a Chandala. He did not accept that astrology was known in the > > > > > > > ancient times in India though he himself said that Manu mentioned that > > > > > > > astrologers are not to be invited to participate in Devakarya and > > > > > > > Pitrikarya and he was withholding the fact the physicians and the > > > > > > > temple priest are also not to be invited for these ceremonies. Kaulji > > > > > > > did not know the proper dates of Vedanga jyotisha and I only protested > > > > > > > against that and told him what those dates should be. I am protesting > > > > > > > against such harms being done to astrology and Hindu civilization. > > > > > > > There are several such issues where I contested his knowledge. He may > > > > > > > know astrology but he must accept the human limitations in > > > > > > > interpreting the effects of the stars and not just condemn Hindu > > > > > > > astrology citing examples where the fake astrologers have failed. A > > > > > > > genuine astrologer tells his clients that the predictions are from his > > > > > > > past karmaphal and that his present karma is in his hand and that > > > > > > > present karma will have effect too. Hindu astrology is not fatalistic > > > > > > > but constructive. If something bad is likely to happen one can work > > > > > > > towards changing that. The basic purpose of Hindu astrology is to > > > > > > > change that if any bad thing is like to happen through some > > > > > > > counter-balancing good karma. Parashara and other greats had that > > > > > > > approach. Thus a good astrologer tries to make the predictions fail if > > > > > > > necessary and this failure is in fact a triumph of astrology. But > > > > > > > people like Kaulji does not have the insight to understand that. I have > > > > > > > devoted sometime to protest what Kaulji is saying lest he misguides > > > > > > > some of my gullible brothers and sisters by misinterpreting the > > > > > > > efficacy and the purpose of astrology. Kaulji should channelise his > > > > > > > energies properly and he must have respect for Hindu astrology. Jyotish > > > > > > > shastra contains both astronomy and astrology. So he cannot go on > > > > > > > condemning Hindu astrology and then go to rectify Hindu calendar. I > > > > > > > think that the past greats like Parashara had done tremendous work in > > > > > > > astrology and if we master those what they said would be enough at > > > > > > > least for people at ordinary level in which I am there as I do not > > > > > > > claim to be a great tapasvi like Vinayji thinks himself to be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Finally Vinayji may be a veteran in astrology and may have his admirers as he > > > > > > > very often quotes the names of many professors to prove that. I am just > > > > > > > a beginner in astrology and I cannot compare myself with Vinayji. I am > > > > > > > not claiming any superiority over Vinayji in astrology and I cannot assert that > > > > > > > myself as it is upto the others to say if I had made any contribution > > > > > > > so far and it is also upto them to judge where I stand vis-a-vis > > > > > > > Vinayji, if they have the time and desire to make any such comparison. > > > > > > > I am just putting forth my views as they have given me an opportunity > > > > > > > to do so, for which I am thankful to them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However I wish to ask Vinayji as to how can he say that I have not made any contribution in Science and Technology when I published a number of papers in peer-reviewed National and International Scientific and Technical journals of repute and presented a number of papers in big Scientific and Technical seminars and also have a number of patents to my credit. Mr. Vinayji with this sort of statement are you fulfilling your self-claimed vow that you would never lie? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards nevertheless, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunil. Bhattacharjya. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 4/5/09, vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16@ ...> > > > > > > > Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunday, April 5, 2009, 8:12 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To ALL : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since this thread may be read by other sincere members, I must add here > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that the very purpose of my joining any astrological forum was to show > > > > > > > > > > > > > > concrete proofs of both physical and non-physical astrology in a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > comparative manner. This cannot be done in an hostile environment > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deliberately being created by a person (Mr Sunil Bhattacharjya) who has > > > > > > > > > > > > > > made no contribution to either science or to astrology (although he > > > > > > > > > > > > > > writes on other topics, often good pieces) and is attacking me just out > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of misunderstanding, to put it mildly. I was surprised that my paper " A > > > > > > > > > > > > > > New Approach to Rain Forecasting " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (http://weatherindia .wetpaint. com/page/ A+New+approach+ to+Rain+Forecast in\ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > g) which was accepted by leading scientific institution of India made > > > > > > > > > > > > > > him believe that I was a cheat ! Why he did not inform IISc (Bangalore) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that I was a cheat ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Sunil ji : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You will get astrology from me if you talk astrology (which you never > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did), but rebuffs if you talk nonsense and level false charges on me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your uncivil words about me from my days in AIA upto your recent mail > > > > > > > > > > > > > > convinces me that you have no desire to learn either decency or other > > > > > > > > > > > > > > things you do not already know. I know your personal details and some of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your works. I do not like your manner of making unfounded assertions > > > > > > > > > > > > > > without providing reliable evidences. How one can write " the great poet > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kalidasa of the 8th century BCE in his drama Vikramorvashia " , without > > > > > > > > > > > > > > providing some reason of " 8th century BCE " dating ( cf. 'The dotted > > > > > > > > > > > > > > record and its effect on the Ancient Indian chronology, including the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > antiquity of the Veda and the Bhagavad Gita') !! One has a right to make > > > > > > > > > > > > > > discoveries, but not without providing reasons. If such a person asks me > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to provide proofs of my statements about topics which are beyond his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > field of interest, I can only be amused. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read my previous mails in which I have mentioned some of the older > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sources of Saurpaksha and Drikpaksha. Or ask some professor of any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanskrit university teaching the syllabus of Jyotishaachaarya, they will > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enlighten you. You will never understand difficult texts like > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Siddhaantatattvaviv eka of Kamlaakara Bhatta. The last verse of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Suryasiddhanta says it is " rahasyam brahma-sammitam " . Physical planets > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are not rahasyam brahma-sammitam , they are perceived by sages and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lechers alike. In the beginning of Suryasiddhanta, it is said that Lord > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Surya disappeared after talking to Mayaasura. Can the physical Sun do so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ?? If Suryasiddhanta is telling false and unscientific stories, why > > > > > > > > > > > > > > blame me for it ? Go and fight with Lord Surya for His false statements. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mayaasura had to undergo rigorous tapasyaa for seeing Lord Surya, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no mention of two or even one tola of wine as a part of such a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tapasyaa. Only a tapasvi can see Saurpaksha. Others may see only its > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With other members, I have seen you discussing astrology, but with me, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you are under an oath never to discuss astrology and deliberately want > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to get things out of me by abusing me. Now you are falsely calling me a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > liar. I did not call you a liar. You had challended that I lied about > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saptasindhu flowing eastward, and when I reluctantly showed you the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > proof, you started abusing me for " misinterpretation " . What I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > misinterpreted ? I provided merely an exact literal translation of the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > verse and gave no interpretation at all. You got the fact of eastward > > > > > > > > > > > > > > flow of Saptasindhu from me, and now you will use it in your essays, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > without acknowledging me for being the source of this information, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > instead have already started abusing me after getting this information. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a sign of your worthiness. I do not know your contribution to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > science, although you declare " I am a scientist " ! Having a degree and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > makes one a scientist ? My scientific papers accepted by world renowned > > > > > > > > > > > > > > institutions made me a liar and a cheat in your eyes !! Have you ever > > > > > > > > > > > > > > produced any scientific paper accepted by world class institutions ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In AIA, Mr Chandrahari was calling me a " cheat " and " unscientific " again > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and again, hence I was forced to show my scientific as well as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrological credentials ( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ NASA%27s_ Report%3B_ %26_my_Paper_ acc\ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > epted_by_CAOS% 2C_IISc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Credentials > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Vinay_Jha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://weatherindia .wetpaint. com/page/ A+New+approach+ to+Rain+Forecast ing\ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ?t=anon) , after which you started casting doubts over acceptance of my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > paper by CAOS, IISc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Instead of asking IISc and other institutions about the genuineness of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > evidences I showed, you started expressing unfounded doubts about my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > veracity and started attacking me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Instead of levelling baseless charges against me after viewing my works, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you should have asked me to show those weather forecasts which were > > > > > > > > > > > > > > approved by NASA and other institutions, and should have asked me to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > explain the methods behind those forecasts. I really wanted to discuss > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the methods and wanted to show proofs. But you discussed my supposedly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fake letters and false statements without proving that I was producing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fake papers. It shows how genuinely you are concerned about truth and it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also show how intolerant you are towards the achievements of someone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Instead of trying to understand the methods, you started attacking me > > > > > > > > > > > > > > personally. When I started a new thread in AIA named 'Tantric > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology' to explain the ancient methods of Yaamala Tantra used in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mundane astrology, you deliberately diverted the discussion to the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > benefits of wine, knowing well that a person avowed to lifelong > > > > > > > > > > > > > > brahmacharya would be forced to leave such discussions. You were never > > > > > > > > > > > > > > serious in any astrological discussion ; astrology is not your field ; I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wonder why you join astrological forums ! I left AIA due to wastage of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my time over false accusations and abuses from you and your friends. Now > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you want the same in this forum. Instead of discussing astrological > > > > > > > > > > > > > > topics, you want to discuss my character without providing any proof of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what I cheated or where I lied. The fact is opposite : you say two tolas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of wine maked a man divine, and I believe in the opposite : I subsist on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > one meal a day, having forsaken salt, spices, oils & c in foods, besides > > > > > > > > > > > > > > performing a lot of other things to purify myself. Why my way of life > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gives so much pain to you that you spend hours writing nonsense to me ?? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do some soul searching and devote your time to " (1) Ancient Indian > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chronology, (2) Finding the Original Shastu Tantra, (3) finding the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Original bhagavad Gita " , which you once declared to be your fields of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your language is getting from bad to worse. I promised I am not going to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tolerate your misbehaviour, because I am convinced you are avowed to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > disrupt any genuine ASTROLOGICAL topic I may ever discuss. I told you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > again and again that you must discuss astrology here, and not the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > benefits of wine & c or level personal attacks needlessly. I did not want > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to discuss anything with you, because your real intention was disruption > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of all astrological discussion and to harass me so that I leave all > > > > > > > > > > > > > > forums. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do not try to quote me falsely or out of context. I have 6749 mails in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my store to show your falsehood, why you are threatening me of show my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > supposedly false views on Saptasindhu. I am under an oath never to lie, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and I did not marry or go into any service because I did not want to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > compelled by circumstances to lie ever in my life. I know neither my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > words nor concrete evidences will never convince you, because you have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > an incurable negative attitude towards me due to my way of life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology is the mother of modern science, but astrology has been > > > > > > > > > > > > > > degraded. It is your disbelief in astrology that even good uses of it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are doubted by you. By insulting or attacking me , you will never get > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anyhing worthwhile out of me, even if I give it to you, because the real > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giver of knowledge is Lord Surya Whose existence you refuse to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > acknowledge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please calm down and some to senses. There are murderers, rapists, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dacoits in the world. Why all your anger is focussed on me ?? Search > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your own soul. You will find all three sets of Saptasindhus within your > > > > > > > > > > > > > > own Self. Try to understand the original meaning of the word " nadi " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ('river' is a Laukika meaning, find out the original Vedic meaning from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the root). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ============ ========= = ============ ======= > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Sunil Bhattacharjya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vinayji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just give one reference from ancient scriptures to prove about your > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saurapaksha and drikpaksha. I trust the scriptures more than your > > > > > > > > > > > > > > imaginary outpourings. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you want me to send the copies of my mails and your mails to the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > group to show who was lying on the Saptasindhu issue? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -SKB > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 4/4/09, Vinay Jha vinayjhaa16@ ... wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vinay Jha vinayjhaa16@ ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday, April 4, 2009, 7:14 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunilji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You do not know how difficult it is for me to control my words while I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > answer your mails. Now I must conclude your sole mission is to disrupt > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrological discussions. There are good articles on Sarasvati in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > internet where you can contribute ; this topic has no relation to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrology. You are lying that you found the verse yourself , I sent the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > verse to you. Moreover, I never misinterpreted the verse, I gave the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > literal translation while you believe your fancuful meanings to be the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > real translation. there is no mention of stormy conditions in that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > verse. literal translation and interpretation are different things. The > > > > > > > > > > > > > > point I made was that Saptasindhu was in the heartland of Aryavarta as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioned by Vyaasaji, but you buried that point under a false argument > > > > > > > > > > > > > > over your stormy conditions merely to poke fun at my supposedly wrong > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interpretation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your next point about Hartley and Burgess is a mere proof of your > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ignorance of Suryasiddhanta and of your blind faith on western > > > > > > > > > > > > > > commentators, as well as of your habit of producing false arguments with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a view to prove false things. Suryasiddhantic true Sun and true Moon > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have great difference with Sun and Moon of physical astronomy, but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Suryasiddhantic tithi has negligible difference with that of physical > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astronomy, because tithi is relative difference between Sun and Moon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Suryasiddhantic synodical lunar month is equal to 29.530587947 days, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > which is very near to modern value. Eclipses are related to synodical > > > > > > > > > > > > > > period, ie, to relative position of Sun and Moon. Hence Hartley found no > > > > > > > > > > > > > > much difference between timings of Suryasiddhantic eclipses and physical > > > > > > > > > > > > > > eclipses. i have used the term " no much difference " while you use therm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " accurately " which is a lie. But even if eclipses have no much > > > > > > > > > > > > > > difference, absolute position of true Sun or true Moon have great > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > differences, esp when we go into past. This difference increases at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the rate of 360 degrees in 42000 years. Another source of difference is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nearly 1.5 degrees of difference in mandaphal of Suryasiddhantic Moon > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and physical (Drikpakshiya) Moon. Third source is difference between the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > length of Suryasiddhantic solar year and Drikpakshiya year (sidereal ; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tropical year has less difference). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can live in your imaginary world of Maayaa believing in physical > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and sensory things. It is not my duty to enlighten you. That is why I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > always tried to hold information, and simply answered your false and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > motivated charges on me. If Vyaasaji talks about eclipses, you conclude > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he must talk about Drikpakshiya and not about Sauarpakshiya eclipses and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do noy feel any need to substantiate that physical reality is the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ultimate reality. Gita says that persons believing merely in the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > physical are destined to hell. If Lord Krishna could not save such > > > > > > > > > > > > > > persons, how can I ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My friend, you will now receive tit-for-tat replies for your foolish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mails. I will give information, proofs & c only when you come to believe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that astrological concepts must be proven astrologically and not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > physically. although I do not deem you fit for astrologiccal discussion, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am giving you an instance of what is astrological proof. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Make national horoscopes at the time of nirayana mesha samktaantis on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the basis of Drikpakshiya and Saurapakshiya computations, and compare > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the phalita results of both horoscopes along the principles of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Paraashara. You will find that Saurapakshiya predictions conform to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > actual events perfectly, while Drikpakshiya predictions bear no such > > > > > > > > > > > > > > relation to reality in an overwhelming majority of cases. I wasted > > > > > > > > > > > > > > decades on mutual comparison of Drikpakshiya and Saurapakshiya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > horoscopes in mundane and individual horoscopy, but you dismiss > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saurapaksha without any astrological investigation. You have no interest > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in astrological investigation of astrological entities. Suryasiddhanta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is an astrological treatise which has no relation to physical astronomy, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > which can be proven from the text itself, but it is better to undertake > > > > > > > > > > > > > > an unbiased comparison of Drikpakshiya and Saurapakshiya horoscopes to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > arrive at any conclusive finding. But you are too biased to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interested > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in any astrological investigation and are adamant on wasting my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > precious time. If you agree to test Suryasiddhanta " ASTROLOGICALLY " , I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will retract all my statements against you and will apologize for using > > > > > > > > > > > > > > harsh words, but if you are intent upon disrupting astrological > > > > > > > > > > > > > > discussion with non-astrological BAKAWAAS, I will use harsher words for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you in future, because an astrological forum should have no place for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > non-astrological nonsense. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a @> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cc: ancient_indian_ astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunday, April 5, 2009 2:50:48 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vinayji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you forget things. In AIA you wrote that Saraswati moved from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > east to west. Then I told you that at Paunta saheb one stream of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saraswati goes to meet Yamuna and it then moves eastward and that is how > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it is said that there is Triveni Sangam at Prayag. The other stream of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saraswati went westward to be one of the seven rivers (Saptasindhu) . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When I asked you the reference as to where you found that Saraswati > > > > > > > > > > > > > > changed direction fron east to west you did not give and stated that you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have no time. Later on you sent me a mail personally saying that you are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > going to write an article and even though the Mahabharata is in front of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you, you will not give me the reference. Then I found the verse in the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata and sent you the verse and told you how you mistranslated it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . That day when Lord Krishna was going to Hastinapur it was so stormy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that the eastward moving Saptasindhu (mind that Saraswati is not sataed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > here) appeared to move in the reverse > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction. I have only told you that the Vedas have mentioned more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > than one Saptasindhu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When I told you that Hartley could find out the date and time of the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > eclipses accurately from the Suryasiddhanta as edited by Burgess you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just ignored that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have no objection if you live with your imaginations as you have not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given any reference so far to substantiate what you say. Vedavyasa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > talked about the eclipses and their effects also and I am sure that he > > > > > > > > > > > > > > referred to the physical phenomena and these did not occur in your > > > > > > > > > > > > > > imaginary locations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 4/3/09, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Friday, April 3, 2009, 10:30 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunil ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe you are a sincere person, that is why I am answering your > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mails. But you are blindly following the teachings of western > > > > > > > > > > > > > > commentators who distorted traditional jyotisha. What you call " my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > imaginary " Saurpaksha is not my invention ; the concept of two Suns and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two Moons was present in Vedic and anti-Vedic variants of Indian > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrology from prehistoric times, and has continued to modern times. But > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with the progress of materialism, the case of Saurpaksha has weakened > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and a majority of persons do not want to get it discussed. I have no > > > > > > > > > > > > > > intention to persuade them, it is futile. If you do not believe in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saurpaksha, please keep away from me. Phalita Jyotisha is the only proof > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of Saurpaksha, because Saurpakshiya planets cannot be directly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > perceived, but you never wanted to " test " my assertions through > > > > > > > > > > > > > > practical analyses of horoscopes made along Drik and Saur methods, which > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is the only proper way to decide the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I already said that my computational ability is based upon mastery of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mathematical tables like log and antilog tables, which is not a magical > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or tantric feat. why are you angry at me if I committed the crime of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learning these tables by rote in my school days ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are wrong in asserting : " Your imagination about the separate > > > > > > > > > > > > > > locations of the physical planets and the presiding deities of the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets has not been mentioned in any ancient text. " If you have not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > read ancient texts, it is not my fault. You called me a liar about > > > > > > > > > > > > > > eastward flowing Saptasindhu, and I did not try to give you the verse > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because I wanted you to search that verse through the hint I provided. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But did not " waste " you time over my false claims. And when I provided > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the verse, you did not beg an apology for you uncivil remarks against > > > > > > > > > > > > > > me. Read your mails : have you ever used such a language for any other > > > > > > > > > > > > > > person in youtr life ? I used to read your messages to others in AIA and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was surprided with the difference. You have singled me out for ridicule. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The very concept of presiding deity of a planet is your inventiomn. It > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is supported neither by modern science nor by any astrological texts of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > repute. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You say : " Regarding ayanamsha as a Saurpaksha concept also you did > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not give any reference to back your statement. " Instead, you should > > > > > > > > > > > > > > provide a reference to back your wrong belief of ayanamsha being a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > concept of physical astronomy. Modern physical astronomy has a concept > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of precession of equinoxes, which was known to ancients. But they never > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called it ayanamsha. What they called ayanamsha was known as trapidation > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or libration, which is not a phenomenon of the physical world and was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > therefore rejected by astronomers after Copernicus. Till then, the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > socalled discovery of Hipparchus was rotting on papyrus. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you refrain from false charges on me and really want proofs, I can > > > > > > > > > > > > > > show you. But hitherto you have only wasted my time. For the last time, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I request you to test astrological concepts astrologically, or stop > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sending messages to me. I still believe you are a sincere person, as I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gather from your messages to others. It is only me who has a special > > > > > > > > > > > > > > treatment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you forget the past and stop referring to what you said or what I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said, things can get alright and you may be able to test the proofs I am > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ready to provide. But if your intention is merely to waste my time over > > > > > > > > > > > > > > personal feuds so that I leave all forums, I will request you to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > behave like a gentleman and forget me for ever. If you think my views > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are my inventions which will die with me, you are mistaken. The best > > > > > > > > > > > > > > works on Saurpaksha have never been translated into any language but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > form a part of syllabus of Jyotisharya in Sanskrit unuiversities. It is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > neither possible nor my duty to teach these obscure ancient texts here > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in forums. You should enrol in those universities where these > > > > > > > > > > > > > > texts are taught. But if you want verifiable proofs, I am willing to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > provide. But I am still sorry for your disbelief in my paper being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > accepted at CAOS, IISc. If I am a liar, how you will ever listen to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And without listening properly, how will ever know my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > views properly ? Hence, either stop all communication, or begin anew > > > > > > > > > > > > > > forgetting all past and talk on proofs only. Then I will be able to give > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you proofs. But if you continue wasting my time over useless matters, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > including present message, who will write down the proofs you ask me to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > supply ? I have many tasks at hand. I know you have a very low opinion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of me. You forget that I tolerated direct abuses by Mr Chandrahari till > > > > > > > > > > > > > > his last message to me. I tolerated him because I believed him to be an > > > > > > > > > > > > > > honest intellectual. Sreenadh led me to believe so. Sreenadh requested > > > > > > > > > > > > > > him to discuss the matters with me amicably without abusing, but failed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh sent me works of Mr Chandrahari, so that I could discuss his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ideas. After reading these works of Mr Chandrahari, i came to learn that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr Chandrahari was rendering a faulty interpretation of Suryasiddhanta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and was propagating a false concept of ayanamsha in the name of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Suryasiddhanta. Mr Chandrahari has every right > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to propound his views, but he has no right to falsely call his views > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Suryasiddhantic. Then I shot back at Mr Chandrahari, challenging him for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shaastraartha. As a result, Mr Chandrahari left the field and Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > started abusing and attacking me. Is it shaastraartha ? Who avoided a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > free and fair debate ? Who vitiated thje environment ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When I tried to avoid this unwanted controversy and started a new > > > > > > > > > > > > > > topic on tantric astrology, why a discussion on astrology was diverted > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to wine ? Did I start a discussion on the use of wine in astrology ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you really want proofs about foolproof methods of astrology, of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > existence of Saurpaksha, etc, you will have to read my articles on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tantric astrology. But if you remove " astrology " and discuss only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " tantra " , then I have no time for you. You do not know what you are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > missing, because you have consistently refused to listen, by diverting > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the issues. In future, please read my messages twice before answering. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no hurry. Do not answer in haste. I do not know you future, but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am going to live here for 35 years more. Forget that I am a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > brahmachaari, if you can check you references to wine. If you again > > > > > > > > > > > > > > start discussing the benefits of wine, I will have to say that it is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sinful for me to listen to such talks. It is an astrological forum and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no use of discussing wine in these forums. I am not belittling > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you, I am merely stating my limitations. I belonged to a rich and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > powerful family, and topped in science and later in English literature , > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > renounced worldly things for the sake of my salvation. I cannot > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tolerate things which are banned for a lifelong brahmachaari. If you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > want any discussion at all, you will have to remember my conditions. It > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is my last non-astrological message to you. Either talk astrology, or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > stop talking to me. I have no time for other things, esp personal feuds, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in these forums. Presently you are in a fighting mood. Hence, please > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rest for a few days and when your mood calms down, start discussing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrology, if you want. I have forgiven even obscene abuses (not from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you) to me in . But if think you never used foul words for me, I am > > > > > > > > > > > > > > forgiving you for the last time. I will not forgive any attempt to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > divert the discussion to non-astrological issues, even if you eulogize > > > > > > > > > > > > > > me. I care neither for abuses nor for praises. If you think you abused > > > > > > > > > > > > > > me or I abused you, please forget the past and start anew. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You main problem is that you want discussions with a software > > > > > > > > > > > > > > developer without touching his software, due to your prejudices about > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Suryasiddhanta. Ignorance can be cured (you are not ignorant), but there > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is no cure for prejudice (you are really prejudiced, I am not abusing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you, I really believe so). Forget subjective matters, and come to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrology objectively, and test objective proofs which I tried in vain > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to show under the title tantric astrology. Can I discuss that topic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > again, here ? But remember, I will not discuss ALL tantric astrology, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because it is a vast ocean and I have access only to a part of it. i am > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not omniscient. I will discuss only those things which I know well and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can substantiate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good Wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ============ ========= ==== ============ ========= ========= ========= > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a @> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cc: ancient_indian_ astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday, April 4, 2009 1:53:11 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vinayji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How physical astronomy can prove that a Shani in Vishakha can > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " torment " Rohini ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unquote > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought that you know that the Jyotish shastra includes both > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrology and physical astronomy and they are clubbed together as both > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are inter-related. Any astrologer worth his salt knows that Shani in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visakha can aspect Rohini. Vedavyasa did mention physical phenomena when > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he said the Sun was in Visakha and when he said about the eclipses > > > > > > > > > > > > > > within 13 days etc. anot your imaginary Saurpaksha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You said that to prove your mathematical ability you will have to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > travel round the world like Shakuntala Devi does. Far from it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shakuntala Devi does not tour the world to prove her ability. She gets > > > > > > > > > > > > > > invitation because of her mathemetical and other abilities. I said that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it will be better for you to prove it if you want others to believe in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what you say. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was the first to tell you in the AIA forum that according to Manu a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > married person can also become Brahmachari provided he restricts his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > physical intimaccies. That was in reply to your statement that you have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > insight into Suryasiddhanta only because you are meeting the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > requirements such as remaining unmarried and being a life-long > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Brahmachari and that you take one meal a day and follow all the required > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rules and that you do not sleep in the night etc. and you wanted all to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > believe in these claims of yours. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your imagination about the separate locations of the physical planets > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and the presiding deities of the planets has not been mentioned in any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ancient text. Without any text reference from the shastras how do you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > want us to aacept it just because you think so or your guru has told you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so? The presiding deity of a planet can move like a yogi can move > > > > > > > > > > > > > > through his astral body but like the yogi cannot really abandon his body > > > > > > > > > > > > > > until he leaves the body for good.so also the planet has a physical > > > > > > > > > > > > > > identity. One cannot separate the physical identity from the planet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding ayanamsha as a Saurpaksha concept also you did not give any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > reference to back your statement. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You do not know the meaning of the phrase " good riddance " . When you > > > > > > > > > & gt%3 > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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