Guest guest Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 Dear Shankara Bharadwaj ji, //Thus Gopi-Krishna is just the classical jiva-para notation. Radha-Krishna relation is also of jiva-para nature. ////> In case of Rama the jiva-para is seen in Hanuman-Rama relation.// If jiva-para notation (Bhakta-god) notation is depicted in almost every case similar to a female-male connection (Gopi-krishna, Meera-Krishna, Radha-Krishna examples comes to mind), then why in case of Hanuman-Rama it is male?! The softness of Bhakti and devotion is usually associated with female nature and submission even for males. And when symbolism is used, Bhakti is depicted as a female; Jiva as female and Para as male. Then why Hanuman and not a female symbol? Hanuman a female?! :=) Another question why a separate symbol when in case Radha-Krishna, Siva-Sakti etc the male-Female counterparts and Jiva-Para connections are clubbed into one? It seems be an interesting point - dear shankar ji, can you elaborate. Is there a purpose behind? What is your opinion?Love and regards,Sreenadh , ShankaraBharadwaj Khandavalli <shankarabharadwaj wrote:>> Sir,> > Both Rama and Krishna are related to Sun: Vishnu-Aditya. 16 kalas of the Avatar are common to the Purnavataras Rama and Krishna. In case of Krishna He alone descended with 16 kalas. In case of Rama it is said that He shared the kalas with His brothers. That is the only difference. > > The sixteen thousand Gopikas are variedly interpreted. If Krishna is the Moon, the 16000 gopikas are stars of the sky. But more importantly, Krishna is Gopati, Gopta - the ruler (of dawn), protector (of the world). Gopi is the one ruled by the Gopta. Thus Gopi-Krishna is just the classical jiva-para notation. Radha-Krishna relation is also of jiva-para nature. > > In case of Rama the jiva-para is seen in Hanuman-Rama relation. Sita-Rama is Prakriti-Purusha relation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 There is nothing like Male and female after the body looses its physical sheath. There is only one Male, who is Lord Krishna and we are all females in essence whether a Male body we have, or a female body we have. All Jiva is female, and all ansh is female till it meets the whole who is Parmatma and a Male. The word " man " or masculine gender, is derived from the same root as Sanskrit Manas, or Mind - the unique human cpacity for rational thought. If Krishna is the Sushumna Nadi , then the 16000 wives of Krishna are nothing but the other nadis in our astral body which have to be controlled through a proper way of living. The 5 pandavas are but the 5 spinal centres or Chakras, and Draupadi is the Kunadlini. I do not remember the Symbolism properly, learnt from My guru. Some day i will re-read what I shoud l have done again and again, but did not, due to my stupid busy Life, and come back after having the complete information. regards/Bhaskar. , " Sreenadh " <sreesog wrote: > > Dear Shankara Bharadwaj ji, > //Thus Gopi-Krishna is just the classical jiva-para notation. > Radha-Krishna relation is also of jiva-para nature. // > //> In case of Rama the jiva-para is seen in Hanuman-Rama relation.// > > If jiva-para notation (Bhakta-god) notation is depicted in almost > every case similar to a female-male connection (Gopi-krishna, > Meera-Krishna, Radha-Krishna examples comes to mind), then why in case > of Hanuman-Rama it is male?! The softness of Bhakti and devotion is > usually associated with female nature and submission even for males. And > when symbolism is used, Bhakti is depicted as a female; Jiva as female > and Para as male. Then why Hanuman and not a female symbol? Hanuman a > female?! :=) Another question why a separate symbol when in case > Radha-Krishna, Siva-Sakti etc the male-Female counterparts and Jiva-Para > connections are clubbed into one? > It seems be an interesting point - dear shankar ji, can you elaborate. > Is there a purpose behind? What is your opinion? > Love and regards, > Sreenadh > > , ShankaraBharadwaj > Khandavalli shankarabharadwaj@ wrote: > > > > Sir, > > > > Both Rama and Krishna are related to Sun: Vishnu-Aditya. 16 kalas of > the Avatar are common to the Purnavataras Rama and Krishna. In case of > Krishna He alone descended with 16 kalas. In case of Rama it is said > that He shared the kalas with His brothers. That is the only difference. > > > > The sixteen thousand Gopikas are variedly interpreted. If Krishna is > the Moon, the 16000 gopikas are stars of the sky. But more importantly, > Krishna is Gopati, Gopta - the ruler (of dawn), protector (of the > world). Gopi is the one ruled by the Gopta. Thus Gopi-Krishna is just > the classical jiva-para notation. Radha-Krishna relation is also of > jiva-para nature. > > > > In case of Rama the jiva-para is seen in Hanuman-Rama relation. > Sita-Rama is Prakriti-Purusha relation. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 Dear Sreenadh ji,Yes it is very interesting but looks good if explained by a trained scholar. I am not But for whatever it is worth, let me attempt: 1. To be accurate bhakti is about surrender, not about being soft. The veera bhakta Hanuman is the example. 2. Rama-Sita or Rama-Hanuman symbolism derives partly from the Mantra Sastra, and partly from Sankhya Darsana. The entire Ramayana is said to be the full import and explanation of Gayatri, the primal Sankhya Vidya. Thus Rama is the Purusha and Sita is the Prakriti whose unity/seperation is the secret of binding and liberation of the jiva-Hanuman. That is where lies the purpose of his life. The 24000 slokas of Ramayana, the various Devatas like Surya, Indra, Manyu, Asvins, Maruts, Rudra (Sugreeva, Angada, Hanuman, Nala, Neela etc) that form part of the vidya, all these clues confirm this. 3. In case of Krishna, there is no Prakriti-Purusha dualism. He is Hari (Hara + I, which is Siva and Sakti together). Krishna is not Purusha isolated from Maya - He is prakriti and purusha, brahman and maya in the same being. Thus we do not see a separate prakriti symbol standing besides Him, the way Sakti with Siva or Sita with Rama. 4. However this is the bhakti approach. In older Vaidika as well as Agamic Vaishnava, Vishnu is Rig Vedic Purusha with two consorts Sri and Bhu (hreesca te lakshmeesca patnyau). In the more upasana and less bhakti oriented schools, even today we see this. Even Krishna according to these schools, is worshiped as having two consorts (rukmini satyabhamabhyam sahitam krishnam asraye). 5. There is no real need to indicate bhakti through female aspect. However in case of Krishna bhakti, the five-fold bhakti is seen more popularly than other kinds. The dasa-sakha-vatsalya-putra-madhura bhavas, as graded in affection, make it almost invariable that the culmination of bhakti is in madhura bhava. Thus the complete surrender is possible through madhura bhava. This is the reason we see most of the symbols in case of Krishna bhakti to be female - Radha, Rukmini, Kubja, Meera etc identfying the lord as their husband. However it is not that the bhakti itself has anything to do with being female - any kind of complete surrender is sufficient. Thus Arjuna, Akrura, Bhishma, Ambarisha, Prahlada, Narada, Dhruva and the innumerable such Bhagavatottamas, being male and not identifying themselves as female, could do a complete surrender too. In fact Arjuna-Krishna is seen by some as the evolved state of Hanuman-Rama relation. The first is the seeker seeking the Lord, the second is the seeker evolving enough to become a seamless instrument of the Lord ShankarSreenadh <sreesog Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 11:27:34 AM Re: Jiva-Para Symbolism Dear Shankara Bharadwaj ji, //Thus Gopi-Krishna is just the classical jiva-para notation. Radha-Krishna relation is also of jiva-para nature. ////> In case of Rama the jiva-para is seen in Hanuman-Rama relation.// If jiva-para notation (Bhakta-god) notation is depicted in almost every case similar to a female-male connection (Gopi-krishna, Meera-Krishna, Radha-Krishna examples comes to mind), then why in case of Hanuman-Rama it is male?! The softness of Bhakti and devotion is usually associated with female nature and submission even for males. And when symbolism is used, Bhakti is depicted as a female; Jiva as female and Para as male. Then why Hanuman and not a female symbol? Hanuman a female?! :=) Another question why a separate symbol when in case Radha-Krishna, Siva-Sakti etc the male-Female counterparts and Jiva-Para connections are clubbed into one? It seems be an interesting point - dear shankar ji, can you elaborate. Is there a purpose behind? What is your opinion?Love and regards,Sreenadh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 Dear Bhaskar ji,Jiva-Para as female-male is only one of the different schools. The ultimate female-male principle is Prakriti-Purusha. The kundalini and mantra margas indicate same things. For instance Vishnu is Krishna, His sister is Sakti-Draupadi. Her consorts are five, the five-faced or five aspects of Rudra. Yudhistira (Mrtyu), Bhimasena (Vayu), Arjuna (Indra), Nakula (Aswin and also Nakuli Sakti) and Sahadeva (the other Aswin) are very direct in conveying that. Usually when we talk of Kundalini marga, it is devatas that are symbolised by nadis. Purusha (Sushumna) has two consorts, the Ida and Pingala. Whether it is Siva or Vishnu or Subrahmanya, this applies. The male and female of the nadis are known through the male/female nature of the beeja mantras presiding over those nadis. In this context, the female aspect is not about jiva but about the nature of mantradhi devata. The female-jiva is more applicable in the context of bhakti marga. Please correct me where you differ. Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 12:30:00 PM Re: Jiva-Para Symbolism There is nothing like Male and female after the body looses its physical sheath. There is only one Male, who is Lord Krishna and we are all females in essence whether a Male body we have, or a female body we have. All Jiva is female, and all ansh is female till it meets the whole who is Parmatma and a Male. The word "man" or masculine gender, is derived from the same root as Sanskrit Manas, or Mind - the unique human cpacity for rational thought. If Krishna is the Sushumna Nadi , then the 16000 wives of Krishna are nothing but the other nadis in our astral body which have to be controlled through a proper way of living. The 5 pandavas are but the 5 spinal centres or Chakras, and Draupadi is the Kunadlini. I do not remember the Symbolism properly, learnt from My guru. Some day i will re-read what I shoud l have done again and again, but did not, due to my stupid busy Life, and come back after having the complete information. regards/Bhaskar. ancient_indian_ astrology, "Sreenadh" <sreesog > wrote: > > Dear Shankara Bharadwaj ji, > //Thus Gopi-Krishna is just the classical jiva-para notation. > Radha-Krishna relation is also of jiva-para nature. // > //> In case of Rama the jiva-para is seen in Hanuman-Rama relation.// > > If jiva-para notation (Bhakta-god) notation is depicted in almost > every case similar to a female-male connection (Gopi-krishna, > Meera-Krishna, Radha-Krishna examples comes to mind), then why in case > of Hanuman-Rama it is male?! The softness of Bhakti and devotion is > usually associated with female nature and submission even for males. And > when symbolism is used, Bhakti is depicted as a female; Jiva as female > and Para as male. Then why Hanuman and not a female symbol? Hanuman a > female?! :=) Another question why a separate symbol when in case > Radha-Krishna, Siva-Sakti etc the male-Female counterparts and Jiva-Para > connections are clubbed into one? > It seems be an interesting point - dear shankar ji, can you elaborate. > Is there a purpose behind? What is your opinion? > Love and regards, > Sreenadh > > ancient_indian_ astrology, ShankaraBharadwaj > Khandavalli shankarabharadwaj@ wrote: > > > > Sir, > > > > Both Rama and Krishna are related to Sun: Vishnu-Aditya. 16 kalas of > the Avatar are common to the Purnavataras Rama and Krishna. In case of > Krishna He alone descended with 16 kalas. In case of Rama it is said > that He shared the kalas with His brothers. That is the only difference. > > > > The sixteen thousand Gopikas are variedly interpreted. If Krishna is > the Moon, the 16000 gopikas are stars of the sky. But more importantly, > Krishna is Gopati, Gopta - the ruler (of dawn), protector (of the > world). Gopi is the one ruled by the Gopta. Thus Gopi-Krishna is just > the classical jiva-para notation. Radha-Krishna relation is also of > jiva-para nature. > > > > In case of Rama the jiva-para is seen in Hanuman-Rama relation. > Sita-Rama is Prakriti-Purusha relation. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 Dear Shri Shankaraji, There is no point where I could differ. You say it so right " The female-jiva is more applicable in the context of bhakti marga. " regards/Bhaskar. , ShankaraBharadwaj Khandavalli <shankarabharadwaj wrote: > > Dear Bhaskar ji, > > Jiva-Para as female-male is only one of the different schools. The ultimate female-male principle is Prakriti-Purusha. > > The kundalini and mantra margas indicate same things. For instance Vishnu is Krishna, His sister is Sakti-Draupadi. Her consorts are five, the five-faced or five aspects of Rudra. Yudhistira (Mrtyu), Bhimasena (Vayu), Arjuna (Indra), Nakula (Aswin and also Nakuli Sakti) and Sahadeva (the other Aswin) are very direct in conveying that. > > > Usually when we talk of Kundalini marga, it is devatas that are symbolised by nadis. Purusha (Sushumna) has two consorts, the Ida and Pingala. Whether it is Siva or Vishnu or Subrahmanya, this applies. The male and female of the nadis are known through the male/female nature of the beeja mantras presiding over those nadis. In this context, the female aspect is not about jiva but about the nature of mantradhi devata. The female-jiva is more applicable in the context of bhakti marga. > > Please correct me where you differ. > > > > > > ________________________________ > Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish > > Sunday, March 29, 2009 12:30:00 PM > Re: Jiva-Para Symbolism > > > > There is nothing like Male and female after the body looses its physical > sheath. There is only one Male, who is Lord Krishna and we are all > females in essence whether a Male body we have, or a female body we > have. All Jiva is female, and all ansh is female till it meets the whole > who is Parmatma and a Male. The word " man " or masculine gender, is > derived from the same root as Sanskrit Manas, or Mind - the unique > human cpacity for rational thought. > > If Krishna is the Sushumna Nadi , then the 16000 wives of Krishna are > nothing but the other nadis in our astral body which have to be > controlled through a proper way of living. The 5 pandavas are but the 5 > spinal centres or Chakras, and Draupadi is the Kunadlini. > > I do not remember the Symbolism properly, learnt from My guru. Some day > i will re-read what I shoud l have done again and again, but did not, > due to my stupid busy Life, and come back after having the complete > information. > > regards/Bhaskar. > > ancient_indian_ astrology, " Sreenadh " > sreesog@ > wrote: > > > > Dear Shankara Bharadwaj ji, > > //Thus Gopi-Krishna is just the classical jiva-para notation. > > Radha-Krishna relation is also of jiva-para nature. // > > //> In case of Rama the jiva-para is seen in Hanuman-Rama relation.// > > > > If jiva-para notation (Bhakta-god) notation is depicted in almost > > every case similar to a female-male connection (Gopi-krishna, > > Meera-Krishna, Radha-Krishna examples comes to mind), then why in case > > of Hanuman-Rama it is male?! The softness of Bhakti and devotion is > > usually associated with female nature and submission even for males. > And > > when symbolism is used, Bhakti is depicted as a female; Jiva as female > > and Para as male. Then why Hanuman and not a female symbol? Hanuman a > > female?! :=) Another question why a separate symbol when in case > > Radha-Krishna, Siva-Sakti etc the male-Female counterparts and > Jiva-Para > > connections are clubbed into one? > > It seems be an interesting point - dear shankar ji, can you elaborate. > > Is there a purpose behind? What is your opinion? > > Love and regards, > > Sreenadh > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, ShankaraBharadwaj > > Khandavalli shankarabharadwaj@ wrote: > > > > > > Sir, > > > > > > Both Rama and Krishna are related to Sun: Vishnu-Aditya. 16 kalas of > > the Avatar are common to the Purnavataras Rama and Krishna. In case of > > Krishna He alone descended with 16 kalas. In case of Rama it is said > > that He shared the kalas with His brothers. That is the only > difference. > > > > > > The sixteen thousand Gopikas are variedly interpreted. If Krishna is > > the Moon, the 16000 gopikas are stars of the sky. But more > importantly, > > Krishna is Gopati, Gopta - the ruler (of dawn), protector (of the > > world). Gopi is the one ruled by the Gopta. Thus Gopi-Krishna is just > > the classical jiva-para notation. Radha-Krishna relation is also of > > jiva-para nature. > > > > > > In case of Rama the jiva-para is seen in Hanuman-Rama relation. > > Sita-Rama is Prakriti-Purusha relation. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 Beautiful Explanation. Your words are like Nectar flowing. Thanks. Bhaskar. , ShankaraBharadwaj Khandavalli <shankarabharadwaj wrote: > > Dear Sreenadh ji, > > Yes it is very interesting but looks good if explained by a trained scholar. I am not But for whatever it is worth, let me attempt: > > > 1. To be accurate bhakti is about surrender, not about being soft. The veera bhakta Hanuman is the example. > > 2. Rama-Sita or Rama-Hanuman symbolism derives partly from the Mantra Sastra, and partly from Sankhya Darsana. The entire Ramayana is said to be the full import and explanation of Gayatri, the primal Sankhya Vidya. Thus Rama is the Purusha and Sita is the Prakriti whose unity/seperation is the secret of binding and liberation of the jiva-Hanuman. That is where lies the purpose of his life. The 24000 slokas of Ramayana, the various Devatas like Surya, Indra, Manyu, Asvins, Maruts, Rudra (Sugreeva, Angada, Hanuman, Nala, Neela etc) that form part of the vidya, all these clues confirm this. > > 3. In case of Krishna, there is no Prakriti-Purusha dualism. He is Hari (Hara + I, which is Siva and Sakti together). Krishna is not Purusha isolated from Maya - He is prakriti and purusha, brahman and maya in the same being. Thus we do not see a separate prakriti symbol standing besides Him, the way Sakti with Siva or Sita with Rama. > > 4. However this is the bhakti approach. In older Vaidika as well as Agamic Vaishnava, Vishnu is Rig Vedic Purusha with two consorts Sri and Bhu (hreesca te lakshmeesca patnyau). In the more upasana and less bhakti oriented schools, even today we see this. Even Krishna according to these schools, is worshiped as having two consorts (rukmini satyabhamabhyam sahitam krishnam asraye). > > 5. There is no real need to indicate bhakti through female aspect. However in case of Krishna bhakti, the five-fold bhakti is seen more popularly than other kinds. The dasa-sakha-vatsalya-putra-madhura bhavas, as graded in affection, make it almost invariable that the culmination of bhakti is in madhura bhava. Thus the complete surrender is possible through madhura bhava. This is the reason we see most of the symbols in case of Krishna bhakti to be female - Radha, Rukmini, Kubja, Meera etc identfying the lord as their husband. However it is not that the bhakti itself has anything to do with being female - any kind of complete surrender is sufficient. Thus Arjuna, Akrura, Bhishma, Ambarisha, Prahlada, Narada, Dhruva and the innumerable such Bhagavatottamas, being male and not identifying themselves as female, could do a complete surrender too. In fact Arjuna-Krishna is seen by some as the evolved state of Hanuman-Rama relation. The first is the seeker > seeking the Lord, the second is the seeker evolving enough to become a seamless instrument of the Lord > > > Shankar > > > > ________________________________ > Sreenadh sreesog > > Sunday, March 29, 2009 11:27:34 AM > Re: Jiva-Para Symbolism > > > Dear Shankara Bharadwaj ji, > //Thus Gopi-Krishna is just the classical jiva-para notation. Radha-Krishna relation is also of jiva-para nature. // > //> In case of Rama the jiva-para is seen in Hanuman-Rama relation.// > > If jiva-para notation (Bhakta-god) notation is depicted in almost every case similar to a female-male connection (Gopi-krishna, Meera-Krishna, Radha-Krishna examples comes to mind), then why in case of Hanuman-Rama it is male?! The softness of Bhakti and devotion is usually associated with female nature and submission even for males. And when symbolism is used, Bhakti is depicted as a female; Jiva as female and Para as male. Then why Hanuman and not a female symbol? Hanuman a female?! :=) Another question why a separate symbol when in case Radha-Krishna, Siva-Sakti etc the male-Female counterparts and Jiva-Para connections are clubbed into one? > It seems be an interesting point - dear shankar ji, can you elaborate. Is there a purpose behind? What is your opinion? > Love and regards, > Sreenadh > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 It is an honor Thank you Bhaskar ji. ShankarBhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 1:34:09 PM Re: Jiva-Para Symbolism Beautiful Explanation. Your words are like Nectar flowing. Thanks. Bhaskar. ancient_indian_ astrology, ShankaraBharadwaj Khandavalli <shankarabharadwaj@ ...> wrote: > > Dear Sreenadh ji, > > Yes it is very interesting but looks good if explained by a trained scholar. I am not But for whatever it is worth, let me attempt: > > > 1. To be accurate bhakti is about surrender, not about being soft. The veera bhakta Hanuman is the example. > > 2. Rama-Sita or Rama-Hanuman symbolism derives partly from the Mantra Sastra, and partly from Sankhya Darsana. The entire Ramayana is said to be the full import and explanation of Gayatri, the primal Sankhya Vidya. Thus Rama is the Purusha and Sita is the Prakriti whose unity/seperation is the secret of binding and liberation of the jiva-Hanuman. That is where lies the purpose of his life. The 24000 slokas of Ramayana, the various Devatas like Surya, Indra, Manyu, Asvins, Maruts, Rudra (Sugreeva, Angada, Hanuman, Nala, Neela etc) that form part of the vidya, all these clues confirm this. > > 3. In case of Krishna, there is no Prakriti-Purusha dualism. He is Hari (Hara + I, which is Siva and Sakti together). Krishna is not Purusha isolated from Maya - He is prakriti and purusha, brahman and maya in the same being. Thus we do not see a separate prakriti symbol standing besides Him, the way Sakti with Siva or Sita with Rama. > > 4. However this is the bhakti approach. In older Vaidika as well as Agamic Vaishnava, Vishnu is Rig Vedic Purusha with two consorts Sri and Bhu (hreesca te lakshmeesca patnyau). In the more upasana and less bhakti oriented schools, even today we see this. Even Krishna according to these schools, is worshiped as having two consorts (rukmini satyabhamabhyam sahitam krishnam asraye). > > 5. There is no real need to indicate bhakti through female aspect. However in case of Krishna bhakti, the five-fold bhakti is seen more popularly than other kinds. The dasa-sakha-vatsalya -putra-madhura bhavas, as graded in affection, make it almost invariable that the culmination of bhakti is in madhura bhava. Thus the complete surrender is possible through madhura bhava. This is the reason we see most of the symbols in case of Krishna bhakti to be female - Radha, Rukmini, Kubja, Meera etc identfying the lord as their husband. However it is not that the bhakti itself has anything to do with being female - any kind of complete surrender is sufficient. Thus Arjuna, Akrura, Bhishma, Ambarisha, Prahlada, Narada, Dhruva and the innumerable such Bhagavatottamas, being male and not identifying themselves as female, could do a complete surrender too. In fact Arjuna-Krishna is seen by some as the evolved state of Hanuman-Rama relation. The first is the seeker > seeking the Lord, the second is the seeker evolving enough to become a seamless instrument of the Lord > > > Shankar > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > Sreenadh sreesog > ancient_indian_ astrology > Sunday, March 29, 2009 11:27:34 AM > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Jiva-Para Symbolism > > > Dear Shankara Bharadwaj ji, > //Thus Gopi-Krishna is just the classical jiva-para notation. Radha-Krishna relation is also of jiva-para nature. // > //> In case of Rama the jiva-para is seen in Hanuman-Rama relation.// > > If jiva-para notation (Bhakta-god) notation is depicted in almost every case similar to a female-male connection (Gopi-krishna, Meera-Krishna, Radha-Krishna examples comes to mind), then why in case of Hanuman-Rama it is male?! The softness of Bhakti and devotion is usually associated with female nature and submission even for males. And when symbolism is used, Bhakti is depicted as a female; Jiva as female and Para as male. Then why Hanuman and not a female symbol? Hanuman a female?! :=) Another question why a separate symbol when in case Radha-Krishna, Siva-Sakti etc the male-Female counterparts and Jiva-Para connections are clubbed into one? > It seems be an interesting point - dear shankar ji, can you elaborate. Is there a purpose behind? What is your opinion? > Love and regards, > Sreenadh > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 Dear Shankar ji,The flow of divinity is superb! It is a great pleasure to read your beautiful posts and I thank you for sharing your Gyan (can't find a better word in English) with us. Some thoughts on the female jiva. Would appreciate your value addition to this. When there is suppression with awareness, it is Yoga, when there is indulgence with awareness, we enter the realm of Tantra and when there is submission with awareness, it is Bhakti.But to tread on any of these paths, the female-jiva is a must. The female principle means receptivity. Since Bhakti is more of surrender so we associate bhakti more with female-jiva, Female-jiva would mean a womb-like receptivity in one's inner depth, so that one can receive. It not only receives something, but also makes it a part of herself. When a woman conceives, the child becomes a part of her body. It is absorbed. The child is not an addition, but a part of her just as herself. And not only is the child received, the body becomes creative, and the child begins to grow. I feel all disciples would need a womb-like receptivity. Whatever is gathered must become a part of you and must grow in you. Unless it becomes one's flesh and blood, it does not transform the receiver. Without this female counterpart, no discipline can be complete.Best RegardsNeelam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 Dear Neelam ji,Thank you I do not disagree with your explanation. However the male-female duality is more about the "essence of things" and the "nature of things". When applied to the cosmic frame this becomes the essence of world (its unchanging principle or Brahman) and the causative principle of phenomenal world (the principle that results in causation or Sakti/Maya). Both these principles are eternal. The receptor-granter relation is closer to child-father than female-male. Jiva becoming a vessel through which the eternal consciousness flows, is such. However woman being Nature herself, her ways to such attainment can also be through fulfilling her natural disposition and surrendering. This is because surrender is inherent in feminine nature. However that is one of the ways. Just like you explained, the child is no really different from the parent, and such approach of the jiva to para works equally well In that case the gender of child becomes irrelevant. The baby seeking its parent is neither masculine nor feminine. The primary hurdle in surrender is not lack of receptivity but ego. And ego is not inherently masculine or feminine. It is about realizing that upadhi (the bodies/sheaths) is limited and insignicant while the intelligence principle that is using the upadhi is of significance. It is about understanding this and progressively identifying the consciousness working with upadhis. If we look at the traditional Vedic classificaton of male and femal approaches, there are a lot of rites prescribed for men, and also a lot of expiations if something goes wrong. However in case of women, they have their natural corrective mechanism as they represent nature themselves. Their methods prescribed are more natural too, for the same reason. That is the reason there are no expiation/prayascitta rites for them prescribed! A woman by default "goes by the order" and is never "wrong". Her actions are reflections of whatever is right or wrong in the controlling principle (her environment or whatsoever) but not her own right/wrong. Thus in case of a woman the approach to spirituality is about seeking the male principle and fulfilling it. In case of a man he either takes the baby approach or the advaitic approach where he seeks to realize himself as brahman. Yoga-Tantra are both about understanding the working and control of upadhis. There is as much control in tantra as indulgence. There is as much indulgence in yoga or yajna approaches as restraint. Most of us mistake the Vedantic jnana marga of restraint or control for the vedic or yogic approach. All the approaches have their own gradation of pravritti into nivritti. Vamacara and Dakshinacara Tantra both have this gradation. The exclusive indulgence part of Tantra is not really vama or dakshina or tantra, it is Kshudra. Because of apparent similarity we mistake Kshudra for Vamacara. neelam gupta <neelamgupta07 Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 4:45:31 PMRe: Re: Jiva-Para Symbolism Dear Shankar ji,The flow of divinity is superb! It is a great pleasure to read your beautiful posts and I thank you for sharing your Gyan (can't find a better word in English) with us. Some thoughts on the female jiva. Would appreciate your value addition to this. When there is suppression with awareness, it is Yoga, when there is indulgence with awareness, we enter the realm of Tantra and when there is submission with awareness, it is Bhakti.But to tread on any of these paths, the female-jiva is a must. The female principle means receptivity. Since Bhakti is more of surrender so we associate bhakti more with female-jiva, Female-jiva would mean a womb-like receptivity in one's inner depth, so that one can receive. It not only receives something, but also makes it a part of herself. When a woman conceives, the child becomes a part of her body. It is absorbed. The child is not an addition, but a part of her just as herself. And not only is the child received, the body becomes creative, and the child begins to grow. I feel all disciples would need a womb-like receptivity. Whatever is gathered must become a part of you and must grow in you. Unless it becomes one's flesh and blood, it does not transform the receiver. Without this female counterpart, no discipline can be complete.Best RegardsNeelam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 Dear Shankar ji,Thank you for elaborating.//The primary hurdle in surrender is not lack of receptivity but ego.//Please pardon my ignorance, can’t we also say that one who is not receptive/accepting would not be able to surrender the ego? When one is in receptive mode he readily surrenders and subjugates the ego to the will of God. All dialogues between Devi and Shiva reveal this fact. There is complete surrender but it is possible only because Devi is totally receptive. Normally we do the reverse; we surrender the self to ego or we’re slaves to ego which is quite contrary to being receptive to God. Or shall we say we remain receptive to the demands of ego?Best RegardsNeelam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 Dear Shankara Bharadwaj ji, Thanks for the informative mail. Love and regards, Sreenadh , ShankaraBharadwaj Khandavalli <shankarabharadwaj wrote: > > Dear Sreenadh ji, > > Yes it is very interesting but looks good if explained by a trained scholar. I am not But for whatever it is worth, let me attempt: > > > 1. To be accurate bhakti is about surrender, not about being soft. The veera bhakta Hanuman is the example. > > 2. Rama-Sita or Rama-Hanuman symbolism derives partly from the Mantra Sastra, and partly from Sankhya Darsana. The entire Ramayana is said to be the full import and explanation of Gayatri, the primal Sankhya Vidya. Thus Rama is the Purusha and Sita is the Prakriti whose unity/seperation is the secret of binding and liberation of the jiva-Hanuman. That is where lies the purpose of his life. The 24000 slokas of Ramayana, the various Devatas like Surya, Indra, Manyu, Asvins, Maruts, Rudra (Sugreeva, Angada, Hanuman, Nala, Neela etc) that form part of the vidya, all these clues confirm this. > > 3. In case of Krishna, there is no Prakriti-Purusha dualism. He is Hari (Hara + I, which is Siva and Sakti together). Krishna is not Purusha isolated from Maya - He is prakriti and purusha, brahman and maya in the same being. Thus we do not see a separate prakriti symbol standing besides Him, the way Sakti with Siva or Sita with Rama. > > 4. However this is the bhakti approach. In older Vaidika as well as Agamic Vaishnava, Vishnu is Rig Vedic Purusha with two consorts Sri and Bhu (hreesca te lakshmeesca patnyau). In the more upasana and less bhakti oriented schools, even today we see this. Even Krishna according to these schools, is worshiped as having two consorts (rukmini satyabhamabhyam sahitam krishnam asraye). > > 5. There is no real need to indicate bhakti through female aspect. However in case of Krishna bhakti, the five-fold bhakti is seen more popularly than other kinds. The dasa-sakha-vatsalya-putra-madhura bhavas, as graded in affection, make it almost invariable that the culmination of bhakti is in madhura bhava. Thus the complete surrender is possible through madhura bhava. This is the reason we see most of the symbols in case of Krishna bhakti to be female - Radha, Rukmini, Kubja, Meera etc identfying the lord as their husband. However it is not that the bhakti itself has anything to do with being female - any kind of complete surrender is sufficient. Thus Arjuna, Akrura, Bhishma, Ambarisha, Prahlada, Narada, Dhruva and the innumerable such Bhagavatottamas, being male and not identifying themselves as female, could do a complete surrender too. In fact Arjuna-Krishna is seen by some as the evolved state of Hanuman-Rama relation. The first is the seeker > seeking the Lord, the second is the seeker evolving enough to become a seamless instrument of the Lord > > > Shankar > > > > ________________________________ > Sreenadh sreesog > > Sunday, March 29, 2009 11:27:34 AM > Re: Jiva-Para Symbolism > > > Dear Shankara Bharadwaj ji, > //Thus Gopi-Krishna is just the classical jiva-para notation. Radha-Krishna relation is also of jiva-para nature. // > //> In case of Rama the jiva-para is seen in Hanuman-Rama relation.// > > If jiva-para notation (Bhakta-god) notation is depicted in almost every case similar to a female-male connection (Gopi-krishna, Meera-Krishna, Radha-Krishna examples comes to mind), then why in case of Hanuman-Rama it is male?! The softness of Bhakti and devotion is usually associated with female nature and submission even for males. And when symbolism is used, Bhakti is depicted as a female; Jiva as female and Para as male. Then why Hanuman and not a female symbol? Hanuman a female?! :=) Another question why a separate symbol when in case Radha-Krishna, Siva-Sakti etc the male-Female counterparts and Jiva-Para connections are clubbed into one? > It seems be an interesting point - dear shankar ji, can you elaborate. Is there a purpose behind? What is your opinion? > Love and regards, > Sreenadh > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 Dear Bhaskar ji, // There is nothing like Male and female after the body looses its physical sheath. There is only one Male, who is Lord Krishna and we are all females in essence whether a Male body we have, or a female body we have. All Jiva is female, and all ansh is female till it meets the whole who is Parmatma and a Male. The word "man" or masculine gender, is derived from the same root as Sanskrit Manas, or Mind - the unique human cpacity for rational thought.// Well Said! Love and regards,Sreenadh , "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:>> > There is nothing like Male and female after the body looses its physical> sheath. There is only one Male, who is Lord Krishna and we are all> females in essence whether a Male body we have, or a female body we> have. All Jiva is female, and all ansh is female till it meets the whole> who is Parmatma and a Male. The word "man" or masculine gender, is> derived from the same root as Sanskrit Manas, or Mind - the unique> human cpacity for rational thought.> > If Krishna is the Sushumna Nadi , then the 16000 wives of Krishna are> nothing but the other nadis in our astral body which have to be> controlled through a proper way of living. The 5 pandavas are but the 5> spinal centres or Chakras, and Draupadi is the Kunadlini.> > I do not remember the Symbolism properly, learnt from My guru. Some day> i will re-read what I shoud l have done again and again, but did not,> due to my stupid busy Life, and come back after having the complete> information.> > regards/Bhaskar.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 Dear Neelam ji,Yes to an extent surrender is prevented by ego and therefore "reception" too. But the approach of "reception" itself, is a specific one. There is no real significance of such reception in karma yoga or even jnana yoga Coming to ego, ego is not all that negative actually. It is a hurdle only in the sense that one identifies himself with a part of himself rather than "himself". It is not that ego is a hurdle in "reception" itself. One could be within the terrestrial realm of ego and still be open to cosmic reality. That is why we find people with almost every kind of siddhi, knowledge of three times, and still behave in a selfish way Being an instrument of devata and identifying oneself with the divine, without seeking anything, the state of complete transcendence has to do with residual ego alone, at that stage. In fact, one out of the six pradhana devatas, Subrahmanya represents ego/ahankara of the being. Thus ahankara itself cannot be negative. There is a facet of it that needs control. What really encapsulates the being as the being, its manas, buddhi, citta, indriyas and atma, is ahankara The divine principle is that ego is inspired according to karma and evolution of the being. Ego does not contract or get suppressed or won. It transforms. Ahankara being sense of identity, one progressively identifies himself as he evolves, as body, senses, mind, intellect, or his family or nation or community or his devata or atma. Thus it is the progressive expansion or elevation of ahankara and not its suppression, which is involved in evolution. Did I make sense or mess up? Shankarneelam gupta <neelamgupta07 Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 7:35:04 PMRe: Re: Jiva-Para Symbolism Dear Shankar ji,Thank you for elaborating.//The primary hurdle in surrender is not lack of receptivity but ego.//Please pardon my ignorance, can’t we also say that one who is not receptive/accepting would not be able to surrender the ego? When one is in receptive mode he readily surrenders and subjugates the ego to the will of God. All dialogues between Devi and Shiva reveal this fact. There is complete surrender but it is possible only because Devi is totally receptive. Normally we do the reverse; we surrender the self to ego or we’re slaves to ego which is quite contrary to being receptive to God. Or shall we say we remain receptive to the demands of ego?Best RegardsNeelam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Dear Shankarji, Well said. If I may add my 4 annas : Ego is mistaken as identity. The unique name for me/ my roll number in class/ the Bank balance/ numbaer of lovers etc. Ego identifies with external signposts. It is our most priced possession. After all how will you think of yourself if you do not have memory of your name, actions, achievments etc. The other option/ alternative it seems in anonimity. That is very frightening. Actually it is not understood that when one loses his/her identity the individual energy merges with that of the entire universe. In the Gita False ego is one of the main ingredients of making a human.. note the word "false". Lord Shive rules over false ego & Saturn punishes a person by first inflating his ego. Saturn's punishing Drishti is a boon by Lord Shiva ..... a full circle of inflation & deflation. Chiranjiv--- On Sun, 29/3/09, ShankaraBharadwaj Khandavalli <shankarabharadwaj wrote: ShankaraBharadwaj Khandavalli <shankarabharadwajRe: Re: Jiva-Para Symbolism Date: Sunday, 29 March, 2009, 9:54 PM Dear Neelam ji,Yes to an extent surrender is prevented by ego and therefore "reception" too. But the approach of "reception" itself, is a specific one. There is no real significance of such reception in karma yoga or even jnana yoga Coming to ego, ego is not all that negative actually. It is a hurdle only in the sense that one identifies himself with a part of himself rather than "himself". It is not that ego is a hurdle in "reception" itself. One could be within the terrestrial realm of ego and still be open to cosmic reality. That is why we find people with almost every kind of siddhi, knowledge of three times, and still behave in a selfish way Being an instrument of devata and identifying oneself with the divine, without seeking anything, the state of complete transcendence has to do with residual ego alone, at that stage. In fact, one out of the six pradhana devatas, Subrahmanya represents ego/ahankara of the being. Thus ahankara itself cannot be negative. There is a facet of it that needs control. What really encapsulates the being as the being, its manas, buddhi, citta, indriyas and atma, is ahankara The divine principle is that ego is inspired according to karma and evolution of the being. Ego does not contract or get suppressed or won. It transforms. Ahankara being sense of identity, one progressively identifies himself as he evolves, as body, senses, mind, intellect, or his family or nation or community or his devata or atma. Thus it is the progressive expansion or elevation of ahankara and not its suppression, which is involved in evolution. Did I make sense or mess up? Shankar neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@ gmail.com>ancient_indian_ astrologySunday, March 29, 2009 7:35:04 PMRe: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Jiva-Para Symbolism Dear Shankar ji,Thank you for elaborating.//The primary hurdle in surrender is not lack of receptivity but ego.//Please pardon my ignorance, can’t we also say that one who is not receptive/accepting would not be able to surrender the ego? When one is in receptive mode he readily surrenders and subjugates the ego to the will of God. All dialogues between Devi and Shiva reveal this fact. There is complete surrender but it is possible only because Devi is totally receptive.Normally we do the reverse; we surrender the self to ego or we’re slaves to ego which is quite contrary to being receptive to God. Or shall we say we remain receptive to the demands of ego?Best RegardsNeelam Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Dear Chiranjiv ji, //Saturn punishes a person by first inflating his ego.// I would like to add what I know. No planet inflates anybody's Ego. It is we ourselves who are instrumental for our inflated Egoes, due to material accomplishments or strata of society we are placed in, or for whatever reasons , which may be a million. But if we have to hold any planet responsible, then its Jupiter who will have the portfolio of being the trigger of inflating ones Ego, which is why Jupiter is known as the " Giver " and " Saturn " as the " Taker or punisher " , because when Jupiter gives and man misuses those gifts , then Saturn when it gets power, it will show the man his place and punish him for the misuse. The proof of this is very well indicated by Jupiter which arrives previously in the Vimsottari dasha arrangement while Saturn arrives subsequently. regards, Bhaskar. , chiranjiv mehta <vchiranjiv wrote: > > Dear Shankarji, > Well said. If I may add my 4 annas : > Ego is mistaken as identity. The unique name for me/ my roll number in class/ the Bank balance/ numbaer of lovers etc. Ego identifies with external signposts. > It is our most priced possession. After all how will you think of yourself if you do not have memory of your name, actions, achievments etc. > The other option/ alternative it seems in anonimity. That is very frightening. Actually it is not understood that when one loses his/her identity the individual energy merges with that of the entire universe. > In the Gita False ego is one of the main ingredients of making a human. note the word " false " . Lord Shive rules over false ego & Saturn punishes a person by first inflating his ego. > Saturn's punishing Drishti is a boon by Lord Shiva ..... a full circle of inflation & deflation. > >  > Chiranjiv > --- On Sun, 29/3/09, ShankaraBharadwaj Khandavalli shankarabharadwaj wrote: > > > ShankaraBharadwaj Khandavalli shankarabharadwaj > Re: Re: Jiva-Para Symbolism > > Sunday, 29 March, 2009, 9:54 PM > > Dear Neelam ji, > > Yes to an extent surrender is prevented by ego and therefore " reception " too. But the approach of " reception " itself, is a specific one. There is no real significance of such reception in karma yoga or even jnana yoga > > Coming to ego, ego is not all that negative actually. It is a hurdle only in the sense that one identifies himself with a part of himself rather than " himself " . It is not that ego is a hurdle in " reception " itself. One could be within the terrestrial realm of ego and still be open to cosmic reality. That is why we find people with almost every kind of siddhi, knowledge of three times, and still behave in a selfish way Being an instrument of devata and identifying oneself with the divine, without seeking anything, the state of complete transcendence has to do with residual ego alone, at that stage. > > > In fact, one out of the six pradhana devatas, Subrahmanya represents ego/ahankara of the being. Thus ahankara itself cannot be negative. There is a facet of it that needs control. What really encapsulates the being as the being, its manas, buddhi, citta, indriyas and atma, is ahankara The divine principle is that ego is inspired according to karma and evolution of the being. > > Ego does not contract or get suppressed or won. It transforms. Ahankara being sense of identity, one progressively identifies himself as he evolves, as body, senses, mind, intellect, or his family or nation or community or his devata or atma. Thus it is the progressive expansion or elevation of ahankara and not its suppression, which is involved in evolution. > > Did I make sense or mess up? > > Shankar > > > > > neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@ gmail.com> > ancient_indian_ astrology > Sunday, March 29, 2009 7:35:04 PM > Re: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Jiva-Para Symbolism > > > > Dear Shankar ji, > > Thank you for elaborating. > > //The primary hurdle in surrender is not lack of receptivity but ego.// > Please pardon my ignorance, can’t we also say that one who is not receptive/accepting would not be able to surrender the ego? When one is in receptive mode he readily surrenders and subjugates the ego to the will of God. All dialogues between Devi and Shiva reveal this fact. There is complete surrender but it is possible only because Devi is totally receptive. > > Normally we do the reverse; we surrender the self to ego or we’re slaves to ego which is quite contrary to being receptive to God. Or shall we say we remain receptive to the demands of ego? > > Best Regards > Neelam > > > > > > > > > > Connect with friends all over the world. Get India Messenger at http://in.messenger./?wm=n/ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Hello Learned ones, Jiva-Para symbolism is described as Sesha-Seshi by Bhagavad Ramanujacharya. Sesha (Jiva) is considered as Female and Sesha as Male. Even Bhagavad Chaitanya did show his Bhakthi to Krishna as a Gopi. Thanks and Regards, Srinath M K , " Sreenadh " <sreesog wrote: > > Dear Shankara Bharadwaj ji, > //Thus Gopi-Krishna is just the classical jiva-para notation. > Radha-Krishna relation is also of jiva-para nature. // > //> In case of Rama the jiva-para is seen in Hanuman-Rama relation.// > > If jiva-para notation (Bhakta-god) notation is depicted in almost > every case similar to a female-male connection (Gopi-krishna, > Meera-Krishna, Radha-Krishna examples comes to mind), then why in case > of Hanuman-Rama it is male?! The softness of Bhakti and devotion is > usually associated with female nature and submission even for males. And > when symbolism is used, Bhakti is depicted as a female; Jiva as female > and Para as male. Then why Hanuman and not a female symbol? Hanuman a > female?! :=) Another question why a separate symbol when in case > Radha-Krishna, Siva-Sakti etc the male-Female counterparts and Jiva-Para > connections are clubbed into one? > It seems be an interesting point - dear shankar ji, can you elaborate. > Is there a purpose behind? What is your opinion? > Love and regards, > Sreenadh > > , ShankaraBharadwaj > Khandavalli <shankarabharadwaj@> wrote: > > > > Sir, > > > > Both Rama and Krishna are related to Sun: Vishnu-Aditya. 16 kalas of > the Avatar are common to the Purnavataras Rama and Krishna. In case of > Krishna He alone descended with 16 kalas. In case of Rama it is said > that He shared the kalas with His brothers. That is the only difference. > > > > The sixteen thousand Gopikas are variedly interpreted. If Krishna is > the Moon, the 16000 gopikas are stars of the sky. But more importantly, > Krishna is Gopati, Gopta - the ruler (of dawn), protector (of the > world). Gopi is the one ruled by the Gopta. Thus Gopi-Krishna is just > the classical jiva-para notation. Radha-Krishna relation is also of > jiva-para nature. > > > > In case of Rama the jiva-para is seen in Hanuman-Rama relation. > Sita-Rama is Prakriti-Purusha relation. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Namaste, Recently, I have read an article in a Malayalam Daily on the underlying principles of the concept of Sree Krishna and his 16008 wives. In which it says that 16008 wives do not mean women, rather it symbolizes " vibhootis " quoting Gita saying there is no end for my vibhootis by Krishna. Out of 16008, 8 symbolizes " buddhi (intellect), manasu (mind) and Ahamkaram (ego?) and the five primordial elements (makes more sense if five senses). The one who has all these under control owns all the vibhoothis and He is the God. Also, in order to understand " rasaleela " one has to possess a clean heart and pure love for God. The Gopis are not merely women but they are the ones who reached the highest level of spiritual knowledge. They have lost sin and virtue meaning reached the state of " Nirguna " . Rasaleela means nothing but Brahma leela. Beacuse of the intoxicated love and surrender for Krishna they lost the thought of the cosmos, body and mind and reached the eternal bliss by dissolving their jeevatma in the Paramatma. I am sure I have killed the article by my childish language but those who can read malayalam can read the following link for more details and clarity. Thanks, Jaya http://www.mathrubhumi.com/php/newFrm.php?news_id=1218474 & n_type=NE & category_id=\ 11 & Farc= & previous= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Namastegi,Why humble on your language. well conveyed the 'Sarangathi' principle. Gopikas are females since they sacrifice their ego faster than menfolk (with all regards to menfolk since I belong to this category), forget themselves easily, and their subtle extended ego get transcended quickly to their children & god, husband, family and on and for that reason any object of their love. Biologically too, women quickly adopt to abstinence, upavasam ( fasting) and to Bhakthi Yoga. Forgeting one's identity and realising that the self is a part of the commonness of the cosmos is yoga or the blending of Jeevan & paramanThese are purely my personal viewswith regardsR.Kannan--- On Mon, 30/3/09, revati_n27 <revati_n27 wrote:revati_n27 <revati_n27 Re: Jiva-Para Symbolism Date: Monday, 30 March, 2009, 10:40 AM Namaste, Recently, I have read an article in a Malayalam Daily on the underlying principles of the concept of Sree Krishna and his 16008 wives. In which it says that 16008 wives do not mean women, rather it symbolizes "vibhootis" quoting Gita saying there is no end for my vibhootis by Krishna. Out of 16008, 8 symbolizes "buddhi (intellect), manasu (mind) and Ahamkaram (ego?) and the five primordial elements (makes more sense if five senses). The one who has all these under control owns all the vibhoothis and He is the God. Also, in order to understand "rasaleela" one has to possess a clean heart and pure love for God. The Gopis are not merely women but they are the ones who reached the highest level of spiritual knowledge. They have lost sin and virtue meaning reached the state of "Nirguna". Rasaleela means nothing but Brahma leela. Beacuse of the intoxicated love and surrender for Krishna they lost the thought of the cosmos, body and mind and reached the eternal bliss by dissolving their jeevatma in the Paramatma. I am sure I have killed the article by my childish language but those who can read malayalam can read the following link for more details and clarity. Thanks, Jaya http://www.mathrubh umi.com/php/ newFrm.php? news_id=1218474 & n_type=NE & category_ id=11 & Farc= & previous= Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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