Guest guest Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 Shri Avtar Krishenji,Namaskar,You have been repeating from time to time that Rashis are not there in the Vedas and theseare imported from Babylonia and Greeks etc. in order to prove that the Hindus learnt astrology from the Greeks.1)I have told you a number of times that Rashi is mentioned in the puranas including Bhagavata purana, which the Padma purana calls the highest of the puranas. Bhagavata Purana was recited toParikshita, who was the grandson of Arjuna and Parikshita was born immediately after the Mahabharata war. This puts the date of Bhagavata Purana around the date of the start of the Kaliyuga.2)I have also told you that Vrishabha Rashi is mentioned in the Veda. 3)You very well know that Vedanga Jyotisha mentions about the occurrence of Uttarayana with Bhanu (the Sun) in the Makar Rashi. This shows that Makar Rashi is very much mentioned in the Vedanga Jyotisha. My earnest request to you is that you should stop forthwith all your statements saying that the rashis are not mentioned in Vedanga Jjyotisha and Veda. Jyotisha Shastra includes both Astronomy and AstrologyLet the truth prevail. If you wish to reply to this mail please do it to the point but do not try your usual tactic of writing mile-long reply to divert the attention of the readers from the vital point. You have to accept the facts. This proves once for all that the Indians used the Rashi much before the Greeks. DhanyavadSunilK. Bhattacharjya--- On Sat, 3/28/09, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved wrote:Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved[WAVES-Vedic] Re: Secrets of the earthWAVES-Vedic Date: Saturday, March 28, 2009, 2:04 AM Shri Sunil Bhattacharjyaji, Namaskar! A reply to the below mail of yours had been prepared and instead of posting to WAVES-VEDIC forum, it was sent to your email id due to an oversight. Pl. post that reply of mine on the WAVES-VEDIC forum. Dhanyavad. A K Kaul PS A request to the Moderator. This problem is a very frequent one on this forum. "By default" the message should get posted to WAVES-VEDIC forum and not to the individual id. Pl. look into it. Regards, AKK WAVES-Vedic, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote: > > Shri Ramanji, > > Kaulji has poor idea of chronology. He puts the date of Mahabharata after the composition of Vedanga Jyotisha. He harps on the fact rashi is not mentioned in Vedanga jyotisha ignoring the fact that rashi has been mentioned in the other texts such as Bhagavata purana, which were composed earlier than the date of composition of Vedanga Jyotisha and he goes on saying that the rashis are imported from Babylonia without substantiating. > > It is said that nectar mixed with poison is poison. His poisonous approach is harmful to Hindu Jyotisha. It is for that reason that I resented your uncritical praise for his approach. > > Regards, > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya > > --- On Fri, 3/27/09, Raman <vvrsps wrote: > > Raman <vvrsps > Re: [WAVES-Vedic] Secrets of the earth > "Sunil Bhattacharjya" <sunil_bhattacharjy a, WAVES-Vedic > Cc: ancient_indian_ astrology, > Friday, March 27, 2009, 6:09 AM > > > > > > > >  <In the light of the above will you > kindly let us know why you made your above hasty comment?> >  > Shri Bhattacharjya: > This is a > very fair question, except for your describing my comment as > hasty. > I am not > sure I can answer it to your satisfaction, but, with the group’s > indulgence, I will try to explain my position all the same. > I applaud > Kaulji, not so much for everything he has been saying, much  less for the tone in which he sometimes > answers those who disagree with him, but for his courage to challenge long-held > notions, a challenge that is also based on considerable scholarship and > understanding. In this matter, from my perspective, he is a Hindu seeker of the > enlightened kind, unlike otherwise genuine seekers who are more keen on > defending and preserving what has come down to us as > ancestral interpreta tions of the world. > I have > taught (modern) observational astronomy and theoretical astrophysics at the > university level, and I know many Hindu scientists who have serious misgivings > about Vedic or any other type of astrology. But they dare not speak out on this > matter, for fear of offending the upholders of orthodoxy.  To an extent I empathize with them, > because such doubts are sometimes interpreted as resulting from Western > corruption of the Hindu mind. > Yet, as I > see it, this is being  fully > faithful to the Hindu tradition. In classical India scholars often discussed, > debated, and disagreed on many matters of crucial import: which is why Hindu > culture has evolved to become so rich and multifaceted. Unfortunately, in recent > decades, provoked largely by external and internal threats which have generated > feelings of insecurity, many Hindu thinkers have become  all too defensive and afraid of openly > recognizing anything wrong in our tradition and or unpleasant in our > society. Declarations to the effect that our religion is <superior> to all > others and deprecation of  other faith systems, though > understandable in the attacked context in which we find ourselves, are not (in > my view) intrinsic to our tradition. They are shrill and unseemly echoes of > misguided  Abrahamic postures,  and it pains me to see this ugly turn > occurring in our framework. If anything the Hindu mode has always stressed the > multiplicity of paths to spiritual fulfillment. In the current muddled juncture > in human history, this insight should serve as a model for the whole world. > No one can > deny that there is much profound wisdom in the Vedas. It is worth exploring > and unraveling this, as this group has rightly set out to do. Yet, for me as for > many other genuine Hindus, the Vedas were essentially utterances of remarkably > alert sage-poets of our past, rather than Divine truths that cannot or should > not be challenged. I am inclined to think that  the insights of our great rishis  are trivialized when they are regarded as > beyond critical analysis. Those keen minds would not be flattered by meek > submission and rote rehashing of whatever that had said in a different age. But > I also recognize that this view of mine arises because I talk from the analytical plane, with hardly any > spiritual awakening on the matter. Now I have gone off on a tangent. > To come > back to the original issue, while I myself have no interest in when (on which > particular date), whether, or how  a > particular festival is celebrated, since the essence and meaning > of any festival (for me) is independent of the date or manner of > celebration, I do appreciate Kaulji’s careful investigation of the matter with a > historical spirit of inquiry which is a sine qua non for any robust culture > and evolving  tradition. > I trust I > have not been more obnoxious than Mr. Rathenam with these remarks, and if I have > been, I apologize to the group. I have spoken my piece, and I will not interfere > with your deliberations any more. > With best > regards, > V. V. > Raman > March 27, > 2009 > >  > > > > >  > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 Dear Suil Bhattacharjya ji, Can you kindly give us the exact reference quote for the 3 points mentioned below? (especially the 2nd and 3rd points) That would be a great help, and reference point of clarity to all of us. Love and regards,Sreenadh , Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:>> Shri Avtar Krishenji,> > Namaskar,> > You have been repeating from time to time that Rashis are not there in the Vedas and theseare imported from Babylonia and Greeks etc. in order to prove that the Hindus learnt astrology from the Greeks.> > 1)> I have told you a number of times that Rashi is mentioned in the puranas including Bhagavata purana, which the Padma purana calls the highest of the puranas. Bhagavata Purana was recited toParikshita, who was the grandson of Arjuna and Parikshita was born immediately after the Mahabharata war. This puts the date of Bhagavata Purana around the date of the start of the Kaliyuga.> 2)> I have also told you that Vrishabha Rashi is mentioned in the Veda. > 3)> You very well know that Vedanga Jyotisha mentions about the occurrence of Uttarayana with Bhanu (the Sun) in the Makar Rashi. This shows that Makar Rashi is very much mentioned in the Vedanga Jyotisha. > > My earnest request to you is that you should stop forthwith all your statements saying that the rashis are not mentioned in Vedanga Jjyotisha and Veda. Jyotisha Shastra includes both Astronomy and Astrology> > Let the truth prevail. If you wish to reply to this mail please do it to the point but do not try your usual tactic of writing mile-long reply to divert the attention of the readers from the vital point. You have to accept the facts. This proves once for all that the Indians used the Rashi much before the Greeks. > > Dhanyavad> > SunilK. Bhattacharjya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Vinayji, Yes it is. But I am more surprised than getting displeased by thinking how a person with a very high self-esteem can make such a wrong statement. You are not defining the term "rashi" correctly. Rashi in astrology means a group of nakshatras. Sanskrit abhidhaans support that. You claim to know Indian astrology yet you are questiong how a nakshatra can be quartered. Nakshatra also has several stars in it. Hope you are aware of the term "Yogatara". Though the nakshatras are named after the Yogatara they contain more stars. Our ancient masters knew Jyotisha thoroughly and that is why they divided the nakshatras into quarters. You very frequently talk about spiritual significance in astrology but here you fail to see that there could be some significance in the number 108. Your contention that the Sun has connection with rashi is wrong. Why then Bhanu (the Sun) in Makar (rashi) is important? As regards the nomenclature you just cannot evade the issue by referring to some paper of yours in Hindi presented in a conference in Ujjain. As you know that most of the members of this forum were not there in that conference you cannot send the members on a wild-goose hunt to get the paper and then read it and then understand what you wanted to say. Better please come out with your reply in a paragragh here. -SKB--- On Tue, 3/31/09, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16 wrote: Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16Re: Re: Rashi in Vedanga Jyotisha and Veda Date: Tuesday, March 31, 2009, 4:44 AM Sunilji,You question is clearly a sign of your displeasure. Otherwise you would not have asked :"Firstly do you mean that you do not accept the division of 108quarters from the 27 nakshatras distributed among 12 rashis inastrology, such that each rashi has 9 quarters."If you think I do not know these fundamentals, it is useless to talk anything. Please do not take my statement as an attack upon you. I have a habitfrom early boyhood to define terms strictly. Since Raashi is notcomposed of integral number of Nakshatras, it is unscientific to defineRaashi as a collection of Nakshatras. Moreover, Raashi defined as a collection of Nakshatras is your personal opinion, having no basis in ancient literature. Nakshatras are related to Moon and are translated rightly as lunar asterisms. Raashi, on the other hand, was derived from 12th division of heavenly orbit having 360 spokes (degrees or solar days). Raashi in its origin, therefore, was related to the Sun ather than to the Moon. Etymologically, Raashi is deduced from Raa + ash which can be explained only as I have done. Vedic terms are to be derived on the basis of rules of Vedic grammar and not on the basis of modern non-Vedic sensibility. Raatri is also derived from raa, which means to donate. What is donated at night ? out of 360 kshanas in 24 hours, one ought to sleep for 108 kshanas, going to bed 54 kshanas before midnight . Why ? Read the scriptures and try to find out what a yogi gets during yoga-nidra. unconscious persons "look down" (ni + dr) and do not get the gift which yogis receive at night.Your second question is : "Secondly how do you think the names of the Rashis such as Mesha andVrishabha were arrived at, ie what was the principle of thenomenclature of the rashis?"It was elaborated in detail in my speech at Kalidasa Academy on 13 Apr 2008. It is about to be published. The theme was origin of the concept of Dvaadasha-bhaava Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Dear Sunilji, I just thought of adding my two cents on this. I am not a member of the other groups, from where this thread has originated. I read an article by Shri. Chandrahariji, where he has described the meaning of the word " Rashi " . He has mentioned that Rashi is clubbed from Ra (rahu) and Shi (Shikhi). He also highlights that Rashi is called as the " Phani chakra " , which is true. I felt it is a very appropriate description for Rashi. Regards, bhagavathi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Namaste Mr. Bhattacharyaji, The problems with the pseudo-astrologers is that they present research papers in some conferences held in distinct remote places. The research papers are either lost or find themselves in some grocery store's corners. Every conference held in roadside corner is given a name of ...."International Conference."... in the suffix or prefix. Another notable is such events rarely have any coverage in any of the media including lesser known non-descript evening newspapers !! If the recent Allahabad International Conference "Conspiracy" with hardly any international element in it... I think Sreenadh & Sunil Nair both made a mistake.... they should have taken photos of the audience on that day.... and expose such International conferences.... In the Nakshatra exbition held in Pragati Maidan, New Delhi promoted by Future Point people - the creators of LEO Gold astro software, popular in North India, attended it sometime in Year 2005/2006, I was aghast to hear a very respected Astrologer cum Teacher { name with-held for private reasons} replying to an On Spot Prashna Queries, to a query posed by a agony mother on her daughter's delayed marriage - the answer was -marry her off to the first person she sees in the morning !! There were other big names of astrology present on the dias when the above was happening.... but for my respect to them for other reasons...not taking the names... Conclusion: So many astro forums, NON of them - at anytime got any message of these so called great International or Universal Astro Research Conferences !! and drop of hat..... each one comes back mentioning paper presented...etc.. With regards, Sreeram_Srinivas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Dear Bhagavathiji,Thank you. It will better still if Chandrahariji elaborates it particularly with respect Makar rashi and Vrishabha rashi, which are mentioned in Veda and Vedanga.Regards,Sunil K. Bhattacharjya--- On Tue, 3/31/09, bhagavathi_hariharan <bhagavathi_hariharan wrote:bhagavathi_hariharan <bhagavathi_hariharan Re: Rashi in Vedanga Jyotisha and Veda Date: Tuesday, March 31, 2009, 6:00 PM Dear Sunilji, I just thought of adding my two cents on this. I am not a member of the other groups, from where this thread has originated. I read an article by Shri. Chandrahariji, where he has described the meaning of the word "Rashi". He has mentioned that Rashi is clubbed from Ra (rahu) and Shi (Shikhi). He also highlights that Rashi is called as the "Phani chakra", which is true. I felt it is a very appropriate description for Rashi. Regards, bhagavathi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Dear Sunil Bhattachrjya ji, In the Kalpadi planetary model based on which the Ra-Si Chakra is defined, in that - * The Vernal equinox is at the middle of Rohini (that is why Rohini is the birth star of Brahma) and Autumnal equinox is in Moola star. * The 7 planet conjunctions happens in 1st point of Aswini (Aswinyadi, and that is why Aswini becomes the first Nakshatra in the Nirayana Rashi chakra) * The Rahu is in the Makara-Kumbha border and Ketu is in the Cancer-Leo border (and that is why they become borders for those signs) * The actual division, happened in case of Nakhstras starting with 'Moola-Jyeshta-Anuradha etc' with 108 navamsas and Signs with 30 degree each having there borders in the Ra-Ke axes. Hope this helps.Love and regards,Sreenadh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Dear Sreenadhji,Thank you for this information.Regards,Sunil K.Bhattacharjya--- On Thu, 4/2/09, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote:Sreenadh <sreesog Re: Rashi in Vedanga Jyotisha and Veda Date: Thursday, April 2, 2009, 2:07 AM Dear Sunil Bhattachrjya ji, In the Kalpadi planetary model based on which the Ra-Si Chakra is defined, in that - * The Vernal equinox is at the middle of Rohini (that is why Rohini is the birth star of Brahma) and Autumnal equinox is in Moola star. * The 7 planet conjunctions happens in 1st point of Aswini (Aswinyadi, and that is why Aswini becomes the first Nakshatra in the Nirayana Rashi chakra) * The Rahu is in the Makara-Kumbha border and Ketu is in the Cancer-Leo border (and that is why they become borders for those signs) * The actual division, happened in case of Nakhstras starting with 'Moola-Jyeshta- Anuradha etc' with 108 navamsas and Signs with 30 degree each having there borders in the Ra-Ke axes. Hope this helps.Love and regards,Sreenadh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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