Guest guest Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 || OM TAT SAT || Dear list, The updated article incorporating the discussions in my last mail can be read from my blog: http://astrology.ydiary.com/articles/pranapada/pranapada-method-birth-time-recti\ fication Regards, Nitish , " yeeahoo_99 " <nitish.arya wrote: > > || OM TAT SAT || > Dear Gaurav, Nandana, Guru, > > First of all, am happy to see that we are having an open > discussion. Thanks to you all and I will try to answer all questions. > > [Gaurav] > The basic idea came from a text on yoga that mapped the 10 bodily > prana to the 10 incarnations of Devi and which we know maps to the 9 > planets+lagna in Jyotish. So, I have put the mapping table at the end > of the article. > > In my understanding, the process of birth involve two factors: > 1. Physical level > Cutting of umbilical cord --> This causes the fixation of lagna as > lagna rules the Samana Prana maintaining the Navel Chakra. In my > view, Kunda sign has to be in trines/7th to D-60 lagna. > > 2. Mental level > Breathing effort --> As per yoga texts, " Breath " is a mental concept > or a thought (HaM + SaH beeja mantra). It is also mentioned that > while in the womb and after death, breath flows in sushumna in the > subtle body, and when in the physical body, it flows alternately > through the ida and pingala which are linked to the two nostrils. > When the baby is separated physically from the mother, it makes an > effort to breath from the two nostrils. > Without this effort the subconscious mind (D-13 to D-24) will not > acquire a habit of breathing. Siddhamsa, gives Siddhi, and How? By > controlling the oscillations of Prana (caused by the storm of breath) > and keeping it still, stills the mind automatically, and then dives > deeper in meditation to achieve Siddhis accorrding to Yoga sutras of > Patanjali. > This breathing effort Ham+SaH involves two chakras,Ajna and > Vishuddhi, and then the derivation of D-60 chart as already explained > in the article. > > [Nandana] > Am concerned with understanding the principles of birth, and > without the octuplets data, it would not have been possible to refute > the standing theories on the usage of Kunda and Pranapada as you have > already seen in my mails on Sohamsa, which was a necessary step to > establish what has been said till now. To apply it on any other case, > would be the work of those who want to experiment, and practically > use it. > > [Guru] > The earlier usage of Pranapada, as you search the internet, is to > see the Pranapada from trines/7th to Moon/lagna in D-9. This theory > has been refuted by taking the example of 8 babies birth in L.A. > The same example, also refutes the use of Kunda in trines/7th to > lagna/lagna lord (whichever is stronger). The refutation happened by > showing that it is not possible to use any of these two techniques to > divide 5 minutes in a manner that allows for 8 consecutive births. > Also, in my view, Pranapada as reference point changes the way we > see the chart altogether i.e. we are looking at the subtle forces or > prana. So Sun/Moon are Devadatta/Udana prana of yoga and not the > zodiacal Sun/Moon, but they both bind together by the common thread > of the 10 incarnations of Devi. > > Regards, > Nitish > > , " Gaurav > Ghosh " <gaurav.ghosh@> wrote: > > > > ||Jai Ramakrishna|| > > Dear Mr.Arya, > > I have gone through your article.Rectification of time of birth, > based > > on Pranapada Lagna, was discussed before, back in the year 2004, if > I > > remember correctly, in the forums, 4-5 years before. > > My question to you is:- > > 1)Why D-60 & D-24 chart??If I am not mistaken, the former is being > used > > to find out the names & it has got no specific chart--which I have > > learnt till now.The names can be either good or bad, like Malefic & > > benefic shastyamsa.How will you erect a D-60 chart?(Without a > software > > of course---it is a software after all, neither BPHS, Jatak > Parijata or > > Brihat Jatakam). > > 2)Even if you can cast a D-60 chart, the PP Lagna will change in > every 5 > > seconds.Even if with the incorrect Birthtime we have PP Lagna in > > Trikona/7th from Sun/Moon, how can one be assured that he is working > > with the correct Birthtime??May be one can cross-check & match the > past > > events, but people is interested to know the future,as we all want > to > > move ahead & live in the future. > > > > Now the Big question, as Shree KN Rao once posted these questions > in his > > website & in a book as " Ruminations of an Astrologer " & this worries > > most of the practising astrologers. > > Which time will be considered as correct birth time?? > > a)Bhoo-paatan. > > b)Coming out of head/hand. > > c)When the umbilical cord is cut. > > d)First cry. > > > > Thank you, > > . > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Dear Nitish, This whole concept is not true and is NOT in tune with the teachings of even Parasara who first speaks about Pranapada. For example -============================================Sage Parasara gives us the results for Pranapada in all the 12 houses,which indicates that Parasara never suggested that Pranapada wouldcome only in the trines of lagna and 7th. Thus it becomes clear thatthis method of using Pranapada for BT rectification is neither logical,nor sage supported. Sreenadh OG/Birth%20Rectification%20%28Complete%29.pdf ============================================ Hope this helps. From where you got all these absurd rules? Such as -===>1) For a baby to be born with Breath, the PRANA-pada lagna should be in trines/7th to Moon/Sun in Shastyamsa Chart (D-60).2) The PRANA-pada lagna should be in trines/7th to Me/Ve in Siddhamsa Chart (D-24).3) <=== What is your reference? The following rules goes even against the words of Parasara who introduced the concept of Pranapada! I would like to see your further comments about the above statement.Love and Regards,Sreenadh , "yeeahoo_99" <nitish.arya wrote:>> || OM TAT SAT ||> Dear list,> The updated article incorporating the discussions in my last mail can be read from my blog:> > http://astrology.ydiary.com/articles/pranapada/pranapada-method-birth-time-rectification> > Regards,> Nitish> > , "yeeahoo_99" nitish.arya@ wrote:> >> > || OM TAT SAT ||> > Dear Gaurav, Nandana, Guru,> >> > First of all, am happy to see that we are having an open> > discussion. Thanks to you all and I will try to answer all questions.> >> > [Gaurav]> > The basic idea came from a text on yoga that mapped the 10 bodily> > prana to the 10 incarnations of Devi and which we know maps to the 9> > planets+lagna in Jyotish. So, I have put the mapping table at the end> > of the article.> >> > In my understanding, the process of birth involve two factors:> > 1. Physical level> > Cutting of umbilical cord --> This causes the fixation of lagna as> > lagna rules the Samana Prana maintaining the Navel Chakra. In my> > view, Kunda sign has to be in trines/7th to D-60 lagna.> >> > 2. Mental level> > Breathing effort --> As per yoga texts, "Breath" is a mental concept> > or a thought (HaM + SaH beeja mantra). It is also mentioned that> > while in the womb and after death, breath flows in sushumna in the> > subtle body, and when in the physical body, it flows alternately> > through the ida and pingala which are linked to the two nostrils.> > When the baby is separated physically from the mother, it makes an> > effort to breath from the two nostrils.> > Without this effort the subconscious mind (D-13 to D-24) will not> > acquire a habit of breathing. Siddhamsa, gives Siddhi, and How? By> > controlling the oscillations of Prana (caused by the storm of breath)> > and keeping it still, stills the mind automatically, and then dives> > deeper in meditation to achieve Siddhis accorrding to Yoga sutras of> > Patanjali.> > This breathing effort Ham+SaH involves two chakras,Ajna and> > Vishuddhi, and then the derivation of D-60 chart as already explained> > in the article.> >> > [Nandana]> > Am concerned with understanding the principles of birth, and> > without the octuplets data, it would not have been possible to refute> > the standing theories on the usage of Kunda and Pranapada as you have> > already seen in my mails on Sohamsa, which was a necessary step to> > establish what has been said till now. To apply it on any other case,> > would be the work of those who want to experiment, and practically> > use it.> >> > [Guru]> > The earlier usage of Pranapada, as you search the internet, is to> > see the Pranapada from trines/7th to Moon/lagna in D-9. This theory> > has been refuted by taking the example of 8 babies birth in L.A.> > The same example, also refutes the use of Kunda in trines/7th to> > lagna/lagna lord (whichever is stronger). The refutation happened by> > showing that it is not possible to use any of these two techniques to> > divide 5 minutes in a manner that allows for 8 consecutive births.> > Also, in my view, Pranapada as reference point changes the way we> > see the chart altogether i.e. we are looking at the subtle forces or> > prana. So Sun/Moon are Devadatta/Udana prana of yoga and not the> > zodiacal Sun/Moon, but they both bind together by the common thread> > of the 10 incarnations of Devi.> >> > Regards,> > Nitish> >> > , "Gaurav> > Ghosh" <gaurav.ghosh@> wrote:> > >> > > ||Jai Ramakrishna||> > > Dear Mr.Arya,> > > I have gone through your article.Rectification of time of birth,> > based> > > on Pranapada Lagna, was discussed before, back in the year 2004, if> > I> > > remember correctly, in the forums, 4-5 years before.> > > My question to you is:-> > > 1)Why D-60 & D-24 chart??If I am not mistaken, the former is being> > used> > > to find out the names & it has got no specific chart--which I have> > > learnt till now.The names can be either good or bad, like Malefic & > > > benefic shastyamsa.How will you erect a D-60 chart?(Without a> > software> > > of course---it is a software after all, neither BPHS, Jatak> > Parijata or> > > Brihat Jatakam).> > > 2)Even if you can cast a D-60 chart, the PP Lagna will change in> > every 5> > > seconds.Even if with the incorrect Birthtime we have PP Lagna in> > > Trikona/7th from Sun/Moon, how can one be assured that he is working> > > with the correct Birthtime??May be one can cross-check & match the> > past> > > events, but people is interested to know the future,as we all want> > to> > > move ahead & live in the future.> > >> > > Now the Big question, as Shree KN Rao once posted these questions> > in his> > > website & in a book as "Ruminations of an Astrologer" & this worries> > > most of the practising astrologers.> > > Which time will be considered as correct birth time??> > > a)Bhoo-paatan.> > > b)Coming out of head/hand.> > > c)When the umbilical cord is cut.> > > d)First cry.> > >> > > Thank you,> > > .> > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 || OM TAT SAT || Dear Sreenadh, You mail suggests that the article needs to be simplified more if the following explanation suffices. 1. Firstly, it is well known fact that BPHS doesn't extol the usage of Pranapada as far as BT rectification is concerned, which is why it is a research work. BPHS mentions the derivation and usage of Pranapada only according to Bhavas and not even Rashis/Planets to make any meaningful derivation about BT rectification from it. 2. This paper doesn't go against the words of Parashara, because Parashara never mentioned usage of Pranapada in Varga charts or for BT rectification. Also, it doesn't violate known principles of Jyotish. 3. It is notable that SJC tradition uses Pranapada based BT rectification method wherein -- PP should be in trines/7th to Moon/lagna in D-9. Similar usage of trines/7th has been regarded in this paper as well. So, in theory, this kind of usage of PP is not something absurd. Further, I have nowhere written that PP has to jump signs in trines/7th in D-60/D-24, PP moves as it does and birth happens only when those two rules are observed. The simple logic is the Yoga principles behind these rules. 4. It is mentioned in the beginning of the article that it is a work based on Yoga and Jyotish teachings to caution the reader who would not be knowledgeable about the intricate mechanisms of Breath and Prana. This makes it a bit difficult to relate to, and therefore the simple mapping tables have been given. 5. It is not just Astrology texts that have the word of Sages. Yoga has produced more sages in Kali-Yuga than Astrology at any time and the words of those sages have been referred. So, when you say that it is not sage supported, it is not correct. Reference is biography of Yogiraj Lahiri Mahashaya by his grandson Sri Satyacharana lahiri. It is well-known that Lahiri Mahashaya was a Sage of modern times. 6. Which other parts of the paper do you find have not been explained enough, so that they need to be elucidated ? 7. Also, truth is eternally there. Sage Parashara has only put forth his realizations in BPHS teachings, so did I and with reasonable explanations within the scope of my current knowledge on this subject. It may not make sense to many well-read people, but then nobody, including those on other lists, have pointed out a flaw in the basic principles. While none of us are omniscient sages, the quest for truth must go on. Regards, Nitish , " Sreenadh " <sreesog wrote: > > Dear Nitish, > This whole concept is not true and is NOT in tune with the teachings > of even Parasara who first speaks about Pranapada. For example - > ============================================ > Sage Parasara gives us the results for Pranapada in all the 12 houses, > which indicates that Parasara never suggested that Pranapada would > come only in the trines of lagna and 7th. Thus it becomes clear that > this method of using Pranapada for BT rectification is neither logical, > nor sage supported. > > Sreenadh > OG/Birth%20Rectification%20%28Complete%29.pdf > <Sreenadh%2\ > 0OG/Birth%20Rectification%20%28Complete%29.pdf> > ============================================ > Hope this helps. > From where you got all these absurd rules? Such as - > ===> > 1) For a baby to be born with Breath > <http://astrology.ydiary.com/articles/tag/breath> , the PRANA > <http://astrology.ydiary.com/articles/tag/prana> -pada lagna should be > in trines/7th to Moon/Sun in Shastyamsa > <http://astrology.ydiary.com/articles/tag/shastyamsa> Chart (D-60). > 2) The PRANA <http://astrology.ydiary.com/articles/tag/prana> -pada > lagna should be in trines/7th to Me/Ve in Siddhamsa > <http://astrology.ydiary.com/articles/tag/siddhamsa> Chart (D-24). > 3) > <=== > What is your reference? The following rules goes even against the > words of Parasara who introduced the concept of Pranapada! I would like > to see your further comments about the above statement. > Love and Regards, > Sreenadh > > , " yeeahoo_99 " > <nitish.arya@> wrote: > > > > || OM TAT SAT || > > Dear list, > > The updated article incorporating the discussions in my last mail > can be read from my blog: > > > > > http://astrology.ydiary.com/articles/pranapada/pranapada-method-birth-ti\ > me-rectification > > > > Regards, > > Nitish > > > > , " yeeahoo_99 " > nitish.arya@ wrote: > > > > > > || OM TAT SAT || > > > Dear Gaurav, Nandana, Guru, > > > > > > First of all, am happy to see that we are having an open > > > discussion. Thanks to you all and I will try to answer all > questions. > > > > > > [Gaurav] > > > The basic idea came from a text on yoga that mapped the 10 bodily > > > prana to the 10 incarnations of Devi and which we know maps to the 9 > > > planets+lagna in Jyotish. So, I have put the mapping table at the > end > > > of the article. > > > > > > In my understanding, the process of birth involve two factors: > > > 1. Physical level > > > Cutting of umbilical cord --> This causes the fixation of lagna as > > > lagna rules the Samana Prana maintaining the Navel Chakra. In my > > > view, Kunda sign has to be in trines/7th to D-60 lagna. > > > > > > 2. Mental level > > > Breathing effort --> As per yoga texts, " Breath " is a mental concept > > > or a thought (HaM + SaH beeja mantra). It is also mentioned that > > > while in the womb and after death, breath flows in sushumna in the > > > subtle body, and when in the physical body, it flows alternately > > > through the ida and pingala which are linked to the two nostrils. > > > When the baby is separated physically from the mother, it makes an > > > effort to breath from the two nostrils. > > > Without this effort the subconscious mind (D-13 to D-24) will not > > > acquire a habit of breathing. Siddhamsa, gives Siddhi, and How? By > > > controlling the oscillations of Prana (caused by the storm of > breath) > > > and keeping it still, stills the mind automatically, and then dives > > > deeper in meditation to achieve Siddhis accorrding to Yoga sutras of > > > Patanjali. > > > This breathing effort Ham+SaH involves two chakras,Ajna and > > > Vishuddhi, and then the derivation of D-60 chart as already > explained > > > in the article. > > > > > > [Nandana] > > > Am concerned with understanding the principles of birth, and > > > without the octuplets data, it would not have been possible to > refute > > > the standing theories on the usage of Kunda and Pranapada as you > have > > > already seen in my mails on Sohamsa, which was a necessary step to > > > establish what has been said till now. To apply it on any other > case, > > > would be the work of those who want to experiment, and practically > > > use it. > > > > > > [Guru] > > > The earlier usage of Pranapada, as you search the internet, is to > > > see the Pranapada from trines/7th to Moon/lagna in D-9. This theory > > > has been refuted by taking the example of 8 babies birth in L.A. > > > The same example, also refutes the use of Kunda in trines/7th to > > > lagna/lagna lord (whichever is stronger). The refutation happened by > > > showing that it is not possible to use any of these two techniques > to > > > divide 5 minutes in a manner that allows for 8 consecutive births. > > > Also, in my view, Pranapada as reference point changes the way we > > > see the chart altogether i.e. we are looking at the subtle forces or > > > prana. So Sun/Moon are Devadatta/Udana prana of yoga and not the > > > zodiacal Sun/Moon, but they both bind together by the common thread > > > of the 10 incarnations of Devi. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Nitish > > > > > > , " Gaurav > > > Ghosh " <gaurav.ghosh@> wrote: > > > > > > > > ||Jai Ramakrishna|| > > > > Dear Mr.Arya, > > > > I have gone through your article.Rectification of time of birth, > > > based > > > > on Pranapada Lagna, was discussed before, back in the year 2004, > if > > > I > > > > remember correctly, in the forums, 4-5 years before. > > > > My question to you is:- > > > > 1)Why D-60 & D-24 chart??If I am not mistaken, the former is being > > > used > > > > to find out the names & it has got no specific chart--which I have > > > > learnt till now.The names can be either good or bad, like Malefic > & > > > > benefic shastyamsa.How will you erect a D-60 chart?(Without a > > > software > > > > of course---it is a software after all, neither BPHS, Jatak > > > Parijata or > > > > Brihat Jatakam). > > > > 2)Even if you can cast a D-60 chart, the PP Lagna will change in > > > every 5 > > > > seconds.Even if with the incorrect Birthtime we have PP Lagna in > > > > Trikona/7th from Sun/Moon, how can one be assured that he is > working > > > > with the correct Birthtime??May be one can cross-check & match the > > > past > > > > events, but people is interested to know the future,as we all want > > > to > > > > move ahead & live in the future. > > > > > > > > Now the Big question, as Shree KN Rao once posted these questions > > > in his > > > > website & in a book as " Ruminations of an Astrologer " & this > worries > > > > most of the practising astrologers. > > > > Which time will be considered as correct birth time?? > > > > a)Bhoo-paatan. > > > > b)Coming out of head/hand. > > > > c)When the umbilical cord is cut. > > > > d)First cry. > > > > > > > > Thank you, > > > > . > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Dear Nitish ji, ==>> 1. Firstly, it is well known fact that BPHS doesn't extol the usage of Pranapada as far as BT rectification is concerned, which is why it is a research work. BPHS mentions the derivation and usage of Pranapada only according to Bhavas and not even Rashis/Planets to make any meaningful derivation about BT rectification from it.<== True - BPHS "Does Not" support the use of Pranapada for BT rectification purpose. So what ever new concepts are presented they are just the thought babies of the new generation. ==>> 2. This paper doesn't go against the words of Parashara, because Parashara never mentioned usage of Pranapada in Varga charts or for BT rectification. Also, it doesn't violate known principles of Jyotish.<== It does violate the known principles of Jyotish and is even against the concept and application of Pranapada as put forwarded by Parasara in BPHS. It does goes against the words of Parasara since parasara DOES NOT agree that Pranapada can come only in the trines of lagna and 7th. ==>> 3. It is notable that SJC tradition uses Pranapada based BT rectification method wherein -- PP should be in trines/7th to Moon/lagna in D-9. Similar usage of trines/7th has been regarded in this paper as well. So, in theory, this kind of usage of PP is not something absurd. Further, I have nowhere written that PP has to jump signs in trines/7th in D-60/D-24, PP moves as it does and birth happens only when those two rules are observed. The simple logic is the Yoga principles behind these rules.<== The SJC tradition teaches many blunders and absurdities and is aimed just at making money and propoganda. For them astrology and the new born theories are helpful in career, profession and tool for money making than one that could sincerely and practically help in chart reading and prediction. There are numerous absurdities is popularized by SJC and is a new born false tradition bettor not to follow. There use of D-24, D-60 etc CHARTS(!) and the concept of considering transit, aspect and what not in divisional charts is an example for their use of creation and use of concepts NOT SUPPORTED by ancient astrological classics. ==>> 2) The PRANA -pada lagna should be in trines/7th to Me/Ve in Siddhamsa Chart (D-24).<== This is nothing but a side effect of the SJC ignorance reflected in a new way - unfounded in classics. For sure - * No ancient astrological classic co-relates Siddhamsa (24th division) and Pranapada * Siddhamsa (24th division/24th varga) and Siddhamsa chart are two different concepts [siddhamsa is a concept supported by ancient astrological classics, but Siddhamsa chart is a concept NOT supported by any astrological classics] * No authentic astrological text states that - "lagna should be in trines/7th to Me/Ve in Siddhamsa Chart" [This is just a self made theory that goes against the Sage quotes] Let us try to understand 'what the sages said and meant', before start creating self made theories without base.==>> 7. Also, truth is eternally there. Sage Parashara has only put forth his realizations in BPHS teachings, so did I and with reasonable explanations within the scope of my current knowledge on this subject.<== Logic and argumentation is NOT truth, knowledge or realization - it is just a theory or argument; and such new born theories does not have much value in an Agama Sastra like Astrology especially when the new born theory goes against the words of sages and basic derived logic (logics derived from base concepts). ==>> It may not make sense to many well-read people, but then nobody, including those on other lists, have pointed out a flaw in the basic principles. While none of us are omniscient sages, the quest for truth must go on.<== Those on the other lists such as SJC or anything else is NOT relevant here; this list is unique and tries to preserve and understand the ancient astrological knowledge in its purity, non contaminated by wild and usually flowed new born theories. The quest of truth is good, but that starts from the quest for facts and basic info and new from the quest to create new theories. Hope that you will agreeLove and regards,Sreenadh , "yeeahoo_99" <nitish.arya wrote:>> || OM TAT SAT ||> Dear Sreenadh,> > You mail suggests that the article needs to be simplified more if the following explanation suffices.> > 1. Firstly, it is well known fact that BPHS doesn't extol the usage of Pranapada as far as BT rectification is concerned, which is why it is a research work. BPHS mentions the derivation and usage of Pranapada only according to Bhavas and not even Rashis/Planets to make any meaningful derivation about BT rectification from it.> > 2. This paper doesn't go against the words of Parashara, because Parashara never mentioned usage of Pranapada in Varga charts or for BT rectification. Also, it doesn't violate known principles of Jyotish.> > 3. It is notable that SJC tradition uses Pranapada based BT rectification method wherein -- PP should be in trines/7th to Moon/lagna in D-9. Similar usage of trines/7th has been regarded in this paper as well. So, in theory, this kind of usage of PP is not something absurd. Further, I have nowhere written that PP has to jump signs in trines/7th in D-60/D-24, PP moves as it does and birth happens only when those two rules are observed. The simple logic is the Yoga principles behind these rules.> > 4. It is mentioned in the beginning of the article that it is a work based on Yoga and Jyotish teachings to caution the reader who would not be knowledgeable about the intricate mechanisms of Breath and Prana. This makes it a bit difficult to relate to, and therefore the simple mapping tables have been given.> > 5. It is not just Astrology texts that have the word of Sages. Yoga has produced more sages in Kali-Yuga than Astrology at any time and the words of those sages have been referred. So, when you say that it is not sage supported, it is not correct. Reference is biography of Yogiraj Lahiri Mahashaya by his grandson Sri Satyacharana lahiri. It is well-known that Lahiri Mahashaya was a Sage of modern times.> > 6. Which other parts of the paper do you find have not been explained enough, so that they need to be elucidated ?> > 7. Also, truth is eternally there. Sage Parashara has only put forth his realizations in BPHS teachings, so did I and with reasonable explanations within the scope of my current knowledge on this subject.> > It may not make sense to many well-read people, but then nobody, including those on other lists, have pointed out a flaw in the basic principles. While none of us are omniscient sages, the quest for truth must go on.> > Regards,> Nitish> > , "Sreenadh" sreesog@ wrote:> >> > Dear Nitish,> > This whole concept is not true and is NOT in tune with the teachings> > of even Parasara who first speaks about Pranapada. For example -> > ============================================> > Sage Parasara gives us the results for Pranapada in all the 12 houses,> > which indicates that Parasara never suggested that Pranapada would> > come only in the trines of lagna and 7th. Thus it becomes clear that> > this method of using Pranapada for BT rectification is neither logical,> > nor sage supported.> > > > Sreenadh> > OG/Birth%20Rectification%20%28Complete%29.pdf> > <Sreenadh%2\> > 0OG/Birth%20Rectification%20%28Complete%29.pdf>> > ============================================> > Hope this helps.> > From where you got all these absurd rules? Such as -> > ===>> > 1) For a baby to be born with Breath> > <http://astrology.ydiary.com/articles/tag/breath> , the PRANA> > <http://astrology.ydiary.com/articles/tag/prana> -pada lagna should be> > in trines/7th to Moon/Sun in Shastyamsa> > <http://astrology.ydiary.com/articles/tag/shastyamsa> Chart (D-60).> > 2) The PRANA <http://astrology.ydiary.com/articles/tag/prana> -pada> > lagna should be in trines/7th to Me/Ve in Siddhamsa> > <http://astrology.ydiary.com/articles/tag/siddhamsa> Chart (D-24).> > 3)> > <===> > What is your reference? The following rules goes even against the> > words of Parasara who introduced the concept of Pranapada! I would like> > to see your further comments about the above statement.> > Love and Regards,> > Sreenadh> > > > , "yeeahoo_99"> > <nitish.arya@> wrote:> > >> > > || OM TAT SAT ||> > > Dear list,> > > The updated article incorporating the discussions in my last mail> > can be read from my blog:> > >> > > > > http://astrology.ydiary.com/articles/pranapada/pranapada-method-birth-ti\> > me-rectification> > >> > > Regards,> > > Nitish> > >> > > , "yeeahoo_99"> > nitish.arya@ wrote:> > > >> > > > || OM TAT SAT ||> > > > Dear Gaurav, Nandana, Guru,> > > >> > > > First of all, am happy to see that we are having an open> > > > discussion. Thanks to you all and I will try to answer all> > questions.> > > >> > > > [Gaurav]> > > > The basic idea came from a text on yoga that mapped the 10 bodily> > > > prana to the 10 incarnations of Devi and which we know maps to the 9> > > > planets+lagna in Jyotish. So, I have put the mapping table at the> > end> > > > of the article.> > > >> > > > In my understanding, the process of birth involve two factors:> > > > 1. Physical level> > > > Cutting of umbilical cord --> This causes the fixation of lagna as> > > > lagna rules the Samana Prana maintaining the Navel Chakra. In my> > > > view, Kunda sign has to be in trines/7th to D-60 lagna.> > > >> > > > 2. Mental level> > > > Breathing effort --> As per yoga texts, "Breath" is a mental concept> > > > or a thought (HaM + SaH beeja mantra). It is also mentioned that> > > > while in the womb and after death, breath flows in sushumna in the> > > > subtle body, and when in the physical body, it flows alternately> > > > through the ida and pingala which are linked to the two nostrils.> > > > When the baby is separated physically from the mother, it makes an> > > > effort to breath from the two nostrils.> > > > Without this effort the subconscious mind (D-13 to D-24) will not> > > > acquire a habit of breathing. Siddhamsa, gives Siddhi, and How? By> > > > controlling the oscillations of Prana (caused by the storm of> > breath)> > > > and keeping it still, stills the mind automatically, and then dives> > > > deeper in meditation to achieve Siddhis accorrding to Yoga sutras of> > > > Patanjali.> > > > This breathing effort Ham+SaH involves two chakras,Ajna and> > > > Vishuddhi, and then the derivation of D-60 chart as already> > explained> > > > in the article.> > > >> > > > [Nandana]> > > > Am concerned with understanding the principles of birth, and> > > > without the octuplets data, it would not have been possible to> > refute> > > > the standing theories on the usage of Kunda and Pranapada as you> > have> > > > already seen in my mails on Sohamsa, which was a necessary step to> > > > establish what has been said till now. To apply it on any other> > case,> > > > would be the work of those who want to experiment, and practically> > > > use it.> > > >> > > > [Guru]> > > > The earlier usage of Pranapada, as you search the internet, is to> > > > see the Pranapada from trines/7th to Moon/lagna in D-9. This theory> > > > has been refuted by taking the example of 8 babies birth in L.A.> > > > The same example, also refutes the use of Kunda in trines/7th to> > > > lagna/lagna lord (whichever is stronger). The refutation happened by> > > > showing that it is not possible to use any of these two techniques> > to> > > > divide 5 minutes in a manner that allows for 8 consecutive births.> > > > Also, in my view, Pranapada as reference point changes the way we> > > > see the chart altogether i.e. we are looking at the subtle forces or> > > > prana. So Sun/Moon are Devadatta/Udana prana of yoga and not the> > > > zodiacal Sun/Moon, but they both bind together by the common thread> > > > of the 10 incarnations of Devi.> > > >> > > > Regards,> > > > Nitish> > > >> > > > , "Gaurav> > > > Ghosh" <gaurav.ghosh@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > ||Jai Ramakrishna||> > > > > Dear Mr.Arya,> > > > > I have gone through your article.Rectification of time of birth,> > > > based> > > > > on Pranapada Lagna, was discussed before, back in the year 2004,> > if> > > > I> > > > > remember correctly, in the forums, 4-5 years before.> > > > > My question to you is:-> > > > > 1)Why D-60 & D-24 chart??If I am not mistaken, the former is being> > > > used> > > > > to find out the names & it has got no specific chart--which I have> > > > > learnt till now.The names can be either good or bad, like Malefic> > & > > > > > benefic shastyamsa.How will you erect a D-60 chart?(Without a> > > > software> > > > > of course---it is a software after all, neither BPHS, Jatak> > > > Parijata or> > > > > Brihat Jatakam).> > > > > 2)Even if you can cast a D-60 chart, the PP Lagna will change in> > > > every 5> > > > > seconds.Even if with the incorrect Birthtime we have PP Lagna in> > > > > Trikona/7th from Sun/Moon, how can one be assured that he is> > working> > > > > with the correct Birthtime??May be one can cross-check & match the> > > > past> > > > > events, but people is interested to know the future,as we all want> > > > to> > > > > move ahead & live in the future.> > > > >> > > > > Now the Big question, as Shree KN Rao once posted these questions> > > > in his> > > > > website & in a book as "Ruminations of an Astrologer" & this> > worries> > > > > most of the practising astrologers.> > > > > Which time will be considered as correct birth time??> > > > > a)Bhoo-paatan.> > > > > b)Coming out of head/hand.> > > > > c)When the umbilical cord is cut.> > > > > d)First cry.> > > > >> > > > > Thank you,> > > > > .> > > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 || OM TAT SAT || Dear Sreenadh, All we can say is BPHS doesn't extol the usage of PP for BT rectification, and it doesn't auto-translate to BPHS " doesn't support " this kind of usage. > It does violate the known principles of Jyotish and is even against > the concept and application of Pranapada as put forwarded by Parasara in > BPHS. It does goes against the words of Parasara since parasara DOES NOT > agree that Pranapada can come only in the trines of lagna and 7th. Please be specific. Which sutra of BPHS is violated? Where does parasara disagree that PP should not be seen in trines/7th to lagna ? Also, where does Parashara say that: 1. PP shouldn't be seen in Varga. 2. Yoga principles cannot be applied to PP. I wonder if there is any authenticity left in the preserved copies of the ancient texts. Lets not base this discussion on authenticity of ancient texts as it carries no weight in Kali-yuga, where the dharma and the shastras that uphold the dharma have fallen to one fourth strength. In your entire mail, you have often repeated that the two rules in my paper go against the basic concepts, derived logic and words of Sages and so on. But you fail to put forward even a single valid point or sutra from a reference text that even talks about PP in varga for BT rectification through applied Yoga principles, leave aside posing any disagreement to the same. Siddhamsa chart is a small matter. Given your view on astrology, we should discard all new-born theories including KP and other derivations, which work and have no support from the ancient texts. The two choices left are, we either learn to appreciate the work of new-generation, or live in isolation till the new-theories gets old enough (say 2000 yrs.) to be considered AUTHENTIC and TIME-TESTED. Bottomline is, it is better to learn something from your very sound basics before moving further on this topic. Do mail your comments on why (acc. to the calculations given in BPHS) PP jumps 240 degree ahead whenever transit Sun moves to next sign. Please be sure, that if you don't explain the TRUE SIGNIFICANCE of calculation of PP for any reason, then this discussion is already closed from my side in all goodwill. Regards, Nitish , " Sreenadh " <sreesog wrote: > > Dear Nitish ji, > ==> > > 1. Firstly, it is well known fact that BPHS doesn't extol the usage of > Pranapada as far as BT rectification is concerned, which is why it is a > research work. BPHS mentions the derivation and usage of Pranapada only > according to Bhavas and not even Rashis/Planets to make any meaningful > derivation about BT rectification from it. > <== > True - BPHS " Does Not " support the use of Pranapada for BT > rectification purpose. So what ever new concepts are presented they are > just the thought babies of the new generation. > ==> > > 2. This paper doesn't go against the words of Parashara, because > Parashara never mentioned usage of Pranapada in Varga charts or for BT > rectification. Also, it doesn't violate known principles of Jyotish. > <== > It does violate the known principles of Jyotish and is even against > the concept and application of Pranapada as put forwarded by Parasara in > BPHS. It does goes against the words of Parasara since parasara DOES NOT > agree that Pranapada can come only in the trines of lagna and 7th. > ==> > > 3. It is notable that SJC tradition uses Pranapada based BT > rectification method wherein -- PP should be in trines/7th to Moon/lagna > in D-9. Similar usage of trines/7th has been regarded in this paper as > well. So, in theory, this kind of usage of PP is not something absurd. > Further, I have nowhere written that PP has to jump signs in trines/7th > in D-60/D-24, PP moves as it does and birth happens only when those two > rules are observed. The simple logic is the Yoga principles behind these > rules. > <== > The SJC tradition teaches many blunders and absurdities and is aimed > just at making money and propoganda. For them astrology and the new born > theories are helpful in career, profession and tool for money making > than one that could sincerely and practically help in chart reading and > prediction. There are numerous absurdities is popularized by SJC and is > a new born false tradition bettor not to follow. There use of D-24, D-60 > etc CHARTS(!) and the concept of considering transit, aspect and what > not in divisional charts is an example for their use of creation and use > of concepts NOT SUPPORTED by ancient astrological classics. > ==> > > 2) The PRANA -pada lagna should be in trines/7th to Me/Ve in > Siddhamsa Chart (D-24). > <== > This is nothing but a side effect of the SJC ignorance reflected in a > new way - unfounded in classics. For sure - > * No ancient astrological classic co-relates Siddhamsa (24th division) > and Pranapada > * Siddhamsa (24th division/24th varga) and Siddhamsa chart are two > different concepts [siddhamsa is a concept supported by ancient > astrological classics, but Siddhamsa chart is a concept NOT supported by > any astrological classics] > * No authentic astrological text states that - " lagna should be in > trines/7th to Me/Ve in Siddhamsa Chart " [This is just a self made > theory that goes against the Sage quotes] > Let us try to understand 'what the sages said and meant', before start > creating self made theories without base. > ==> > > 7. Also, truth is eternally there. Sage Parashara has only put forth > his realizations in BPHS teachings, so did I and with reasonable > explanations within the scope of my current knowledge on this subject. > <== > Logic and argumentation is NOT truth, knowledge or realization - it is > just a theory or argument; and such new born theories does not have much > value in an Agama Sastra like Astrology especially when the new born > theory goes against the words of sages and basic derived logic (logics > derived from base concepts). > ==> > > It may not make sense to many well-read people, but then nobody, > including those on other lists, have pointed out a flaw in the basic > principles. While none of us are omniscient sages, the quest for truth > must go on. > <== > Those on the other lists such as SJC or anything else is NOT relevant > here; this list is unique and tries to preserve and understand the > ancient astrological knowledge in its purity, non contaminated by wild > and usually flowed new born theories. The quest of truth is good, but > that starts from the quest for facts and basic info and new from the > quest to create new theories. > Hope that you will agree > Love and regards, > Sreenadh > > , " yeeahoo_99 " > <nitish.arya@> wrote: > > > > || OM TAT SAT || > > Dear Sreenadh, > > > > You mail suggests that the article needs to be simplified more if > the following explanation suffices. > > > > 1. Firstly, it is well known fact that BPHS doesn't extol the usage > of Pranapada as far as BT rectification is concerned, which is why it is > a research work. BPHS mentions the derivation and usage of Pranapada > only according to Bhavas and not even Rashis/Planets to make any > meaningful derivation about BT rectification from it. > > > > 2. This paper doesn't go against the words of Parashara, because > Parashara never mentioned usage of Pranapada in Varga charts or for BT > rectification. Also, it doesn't violate known principles of Jyotish. > > > > 3. It is notable that SJC tradition uses Pranapada based BT > rectification method wherein -- PP should be in trines/7th to Moon/lagna > in D-9. Similar usage of trines/7th has been regarded in this paper as > well. So, in theory, this kind of usage of PP is not something absurd. > Further, I have nowhere written that PP has to jump signs in trines/7th > in D-60/D-24, PP moves as it does and birth happens only when those two > rules are observed. The simple logic is the Yoga principles behind these > rules. > > > > 4. It is mentioned in the beginning of the article that it is a > work based on Yoga and Jyotish teachings to caution the reader who would > not be knowledgeable about the intricate mechanisms of Breath and Prana. > This makes it a bit difficult to relate to, and therefore the simple > mapping tables have been given. > > > > 5. It is not just Astrology texts that have the word of Sages. Yoga > has produced more sages in Kali-Yuga than Astrology at any time and the > words of those sages have been referred. So, when you say that it is not > sage supported, it is not correct. Reference is biography of Yogiraj > Lahiri Mahashaya by his grandson Sri Satyacharana lahiri. It is > well-known that Lahiri Mahashaya was a Sage of modern times. > > > > 6. Which other parts of the paper do you find have not been > explained enough, so that they need to be elucidated ? > > > > 7. Also, truth is eternally there. Sage Parashara has only put > forth his realizations in BPHS teachings, so did I and with reasonable > explanations within the scope of my current knowledge on this subject. > > > > It may not make sense to many well-read people, but then nobody, > including those on other lists, have pointed out a flaw in the basic > principles. While none of us are omniscient sages, the quest for truth > must go on. > > > > Regards, > > Nitish > > > > , " Sreenadh " sreesog@ > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Nitish, > > > This whole concept is not true and is NOT in tune with the > teachings > > > of even Parasara who first speaks about Pranapada. For example - > > > ============================================ > > > Sage Parasara gives us the results for Pranapada in all the 12 > houses, > > > which indicates that Parasara never suggested that Pranapada would > > > come only in the trines of lagna and 7th. Thus it becomes clear that > > > this method of using Pranapada for BT rectification is neither > logical, > > > nor sage supported. > > > > > > > Sreenadh > > > OG/Birth%20Rectification%20%28Complete%29.pdf > > > > <Sreenadh%2\ > \ > > > 0OG/Birth%20Rectification%20%28Complete%29.pdf> > > > ============================================ > > > Hope this helps. > > > From where you got all these absurd rules? Such as - > > > ===> > > > 1) For a baby to be born with Breath > > > <http://astrology.ydiary.com/articles/tag/breath> , the PRANA > > > <http://astrology.ydiary.com/articles/tag/prana> -pada lagna should > be > > > in trines/7th to Moon/Sun in Shastyamsa > > > <http://astrology.ydiary.com/articles/tag/shastyamsa> Chart (D-60). > > > 2) The PRANA <http://astrology.ydiary.com/articles/tag/prana> -pada > > > lagna should be in trines/7th to Me/Ve in Siddhamsa > > > <http://astrology.ydiary.com/articles/tag/siddhamsa> Chart (D-24). > > > 3) > > > <=== > > > What is your reference? The following rules goes even against the > > > words of Parasara who introduced the concept of Pranapada! I would > like > > > to see your further comments about the above statement. > > > Love and Regards, > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > , " yeeahoo_99 " > > > <nitish.arya@> wrote: > > > > > > > > || OM TAT SAT || > > > > Dear list, > > > > The updated article incorporating the discussions in my last > mail > > > can be read from my blog: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://astrology.ydiary.com/articles/pranapada/pranapada-method-birth-ti\ > \ > > > me-rectification > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Nitish > > > > > > > > , " yeeahoo_99 " > > > nitish.arya@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > || OM TAT SAT || > > > > > Dear Gaurav, Nandana, Guru, > > > > > > > > > > First of all, am happy to see that we are having an open > > > > > discussion. Thanks to you all and I will try to answer all > > > questions. > > > > > > > > > > [Gaurav] > > > > > The basic idea came from a text on yoga that mapped the 10 > bodily > > > > > prana to the 10 incarnations of Devi and which we know maps to > the 9 > > > > > planets+lagna in Jyotish. So, I have put the mapping table at > the > > > end > > > > > of the article. > > > > > > > > > > In my understanding, the process of birth involve two factors: > > > > > 1. Physical level > > > > > Cutting of umbilical cord --> This causes the fixation of lagna > as > > > > > lagna rules the Samana Prana maintaining the Navel Chakra. In my > > > > > view, Kunda sign has to be in trines/7th to D-60 lagna. > > > > > > > > > > 2. Mental level > > > > > Breathing effort --> As per yoga texts, " Breath " is a mental > concept > > > > > or a thought (HaM + SaH beeja mantra). It is also mentioned that > > > > > while in the womb and after death, breath flows in sushumna in > the > > > > > subtle body, and when in the physical body, it flows alternately > > > > > through the ida and pingala which are linked to the two > nostrils. > > > > > When the baby is separated physically from the mother, it > makes an > > > > > effort to breath from the two nostrils. > > > > > Without this effort the subconscious mind (D-13 to D-24) will > not > > > > > acquire a habit of breathing. Siddhamsa, gives Siddhi, and How? > By > > > > > controlling the oscillations of Prana (caused by the storm of > > > breath) > > > > > and keeping it still, stills the mind automatically, and then > dives > > > > > deeper in meditation to achieve Siddhis accorrding to Yoga > sutras of > > > > > Patanjali. > > > > > This breathing effort Ham+SaH involves two chakras,Ajna and > > > > > Vishuddhi, and then the derivation of D-60 chart as already > > > explained > > > > > in the article. > > > > > > > > > > [Nandana] > > > > > Am concerned with understanding the principles of birth, and > > > > > without the octuplets data, it would not have been possible to > > > refute > > > > > the standing theories on the usage of Kunda and Pranapada as you > > > have > > > > > already seen in my mails on Sohamsa, which was a necessary step > to > > > > > establish what has been said till now. To apply it on any other > > > case, > > > > > would be the work of those who want to experiment, and > practically > > > > > use it. > > > > > > > > > > [Guru] > > > > > The earlier usage of Pranapada, as you search the internet, > is to > > > > > see the Pranapada from trines/7th to Moon/lagna in D-9. This > theory > > > > > has been refuted by taking the example of 8 babies birth in L.A. > > > > > The same example, also refutes the use of Kunda in trines/7th > to > > > > > lagna/lagna lord (whichever is stronger). The refutation > happened by > > > > > showing that it is not possible to use any of these two > techniques > > > to > > > > > divide 5 minutes in a manner that allows for 8 consecutive > births. > > > > > Also, in my view, Pranapada as reference point changes the > way we > > > > > see the chart altogether i.e. we are looking at the subtle > forces or > > > > > prana. So Sun/Moon are Devadatta/Udana prana of yoga and not the > > > > > zodiacal Sun/Moon, but they both bind together by the common > thread > > > > > of the 10 incarnations of Devi. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Nitish > > > > > > > > > > , " Gaurav > > > > > Ghosh " <gaurav.ghosh@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > ||Jai Ramakrishna|| > > > > > > Dear Mr.Arya, > > > > > > I have gone through your article.Rectification of time of > birth, > > > > > based > > > > > > on Pranapada Lagna, was discussed before, back in the year > 2004, > > > if > > > > > I > > > > > > remember correctly, in the forums, 4-5 years before. > > > > > > My question to you is:- > > > > > > 1)Why D-60 & D-24 chart??If I am not mistaken, the former is > being > > > > > used > > > > > > to find out the names & it has got no specific chart--which I > have > > > > > > learnt till now.The names can be either good or bad, like > Malefic > > > & > > > > > > benefic shastyamsa.How will you erect a D-60 chart?(Without a > > > > > software > > > > > > of course---it is a software after all, neither BPHS, Jatak > > > > > Parijata or > > > > > > Brihat Jatakam). > > > > > > 2)Even if you can cast a D-60 chart, the PP Lagna will change > in > > > > > every 5 > > > > > > seconds.Even if with the incorrect Birthtime we have PP Lagna > in > > > > > > Trikona/7th from Sun/Moon, how can one be assured that he is > > > working > > > > > > with the correct Birthtime??May be one can cross-check & match > the > > > > > past > > > > > > events, but people is interested to know the future,as we all > want > > > > > to > > > > > > move ahead & live in the future. > > > > > > > > > > > > Now the Big question, as Shree KN Rao once posted these > questions > > > > > in his > > > > > > website & in a book as " Ruminations of an Astrologer " & this > > > worries > > > > > > most of the practising astrologers. > > > > > > Which time will be considered as correct birth time?? > > > > > > a)Bhoo-paatan. > > > > > > b)Coming out of head/hand. > > > > > > c)When the umbilical cord is cut. > > > > > > d)First cry. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you, > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 Dear Nitish ji, ==>> Please be specific. Which sutra of BPHS is violated? Where does parasara disagree that PP should not be seen in trines/7th to lagna ?................> In your entire mail, you have often repeated that the two rules in my paper go against the basic concepts, derived logic and words of Sages and so on. But you fail to put forward even a single valid point or sutra from a reference text that even talks about PP in varga for BT rectification through applied Yoga principles, leave aside posing any disagreement to the same.<== This simply shows that you haven't even gone through the first mail I send to you! There is a whole book available in the file section of this group that deals with BT rectification. Please go through the section related to Pranapada in that book to know about Sage Parasara's views on Pranapada, if you couldn't find those quotes in BPHS. Here is the link: Sreenadh%20OG/Birth%20Rectification%20(Complete).pdf Hope this will help you in your learning. ==>> I wonder if there is any authenticity left in the preserved copies of the ancient texts.<== If you think so then create a predictive system of your own - why mis-use and mis-quote the concept of Pranapada given by a poor old sage Parasara? You must be better than Parasara to create your own system. Since you doubt the authenticity of ALL Rishi horas and ancient astrological texts - may be this is not a group for you as well, since we trust in the authenticity of the Rishi Hora teachings and try to learn from them, and consider ourselves as much below their capability about astrology and its application. You being such a supreme soul, may not be fit for such a humble approach towards ancient astrological texts.==>Given your view on astrology, we should discard all new-born theories including KP and other derivations, which work and have no support from the ancient texts. The two choices left are, we either learn to appreciate the work of new-generation, or live in isolation till the new-theories gets old enough (say 2000 yrs.) to be considered AUTHENTIC and TIME-TESTED.<== If you think that KP system is not based on ancient text at all, then definitely know nothing about KP system. The core concept of KP system (lord-sublord concept) is available in Prasnamarga itself. It is another matter that even though just an off shoot of ancient indian astrology, Krishnamoorti never expressed his full gratitude and indebtedness to the ancient system of indian astrology. The fact is that Krishnamorti took a system that was termed "Utmost Secret (Pramam Rahasyam)" by Prasnamarga and started applying it in his own unique way. ==>> this discussion is already closed from my side in all goodwill.<== Good, I don't want to extend it either, since it does not seems to reach anywhere. If discussion helped in anyway to improve the understanding of anyone regarding the connection or no-connection between Birth rectification and Pranapada then it is well and good; if not - wel, then too it is ok. So I think we can close this thread as of now.Love and regards,Sreenadh , "yeeahoo_99" <nitish.arya wrote:>> || OM TAT SAT ||> Dear Sreenadh,> > All we can say is BPHS doesn't extol the usage of PP for BT rectification, and it doesn't auto-translate to BPHS "doesn't support" this kind of usage.> > > It does violate the known principles of Jyotish and is even against> > the concept and application of Pranapada as put forwarded by Parasara in> > BPHS. It does goes against the words of Parasara since parasara DOES NOT> > agree that Pranapada can come only in the trines of lagna and 7th.> > Please be specific. Which sutra of BPHS is violated? Where does parasara disagree that PP should not be seen in trines/7th to lagna ?> Also, where does Parashara say that:> 1. PP shouldn't be seen in Varga.> 2. Yoga principles cannot be applied to PP.> > I wonder if there is any authenticity left in the preserved copies of the ancient texts. Lets not base this discussion on authenticity of ancient texts as it carries no weight in Kali-yuga, where the dharma and the shastras that uphold the dharma have fallen to one fourth strength.> > In your entire mail, you have often repeated that the two rules in my paper go against the basic concepts, derived logic and words of Sages and so on. But you fail to put forward even a single valid point or sutra from a reference text that even talks about PP in varga for BT rectification through applied Yoga principles, leave aside posing any disagreement to the same.> > Siddhamsa chart is a small matter. Given your view on astrology, we should discard all new-born theories including KP and other derivations, which work and have no support from the ancient texts. The two choices left are, we either learn to appreciate the work of new-generation, or live in isolation till the new-theories gets old enough (say 2000 yrs.) to be considered AUTHENTIC and TIME-TESTED.> > Bottomline is, it is better to learn something from your very sound basics before moving further on this topic.> > Do mail your comments on why (acc. to the calculations given in BPHS) PP jumps 240 degree ahead whenever transit Sun moves to next sign. Please be sure, that if you don't explain the TRUE SIGNIFICANCE of calculation of PP for any reason, then this discussion is already closed from my side in all goodwill.> > Regards,> Nitish> > , "Sreenadh" sreesog@ wrote:> >> > Dear Nitish ji,> > ==>> > > 1. Firstly, it is well known fact that BPHS doesn't extol the usage of> > Pranapada as far as BT rectification is concerned, which is why it is a> > research work. BPHS mentions the derivation and usage of Pranapada only> > according to Bhavas and not even Rashis/Planets to make any meaningful> > derivation about BT rectification from it.> > <==> > True - BPHS "Does Not" support the use of Pranapada for BT> > rectification purpose. So what ever new concepts are presented they are> > just the thought babies of the new generation.> > ==>> > > 2. This paper doesn't go against the words of Parashara, because> > Parashara never mentioned usage of Pranapada in Varga charts or for BT> > rectification. Also, it doesn't violate known principles of Jyotish.> > <==> > It does violate the known principles of Jyotish and is even against> > the concept and application of Pranapada as put forwarded by Parasara in> > BPHS. It does goes against the words of Parasara since parasara DOES NOT> > agree that Pranapada can come only in the trines of lagna and 7th.> > ==>> > > 3. It is notable that SJC tradition uses Pranapada based BT> > rectification method wherein -- PP should be in trines/7th to Moon/lagna> > in D-9. Similar usage of trines/7th has been regarded in this paper as> > well. So, in theory, this kind of usage of PP is not something absurd.> > Further, I have nowhere written that PP has to jump signs in trines/7th> > in D-60/D-24, PP moves as it does and birth happens only when those two> > rules are observed. The simple logic is the Yoga principles behind these> > rules.> > <==> > The SJC tradition teaches many blunders and absurdities and is aimed> > just at making money and propoganda. For them astrology and the new born> > theories are helpful in career, profession and tool for money making> > than one that could sincerely and practically help in chart reading and> > prediction. There are numerous absurdities is popularized by SJC and is> > a new born false tradition bettor not to follow. There use of D-24, D-60> > etc CHARTS(!) and the concept of considering transit, aspect and what> > not in divisional charts is an example for their use of creation and use> > of concepts NOT SUPPORTED by ancient astrological classics.> > ==>> > > 2) The PRANA -pada lagna should be in trines/7th to Me/Ve in> > Siddhamsa Chart (D-24).> > <==> > This is nothing but a side effect of the SJC ignorance reflected in a> > new way - unfounded in classics. For sure -> > * No ancient astrological classic co-relates Siddhamsa (24th division)> > and Pranapada> > * Siddhamsa (24th division/24th varga) and Siddhamsa chart are two> > different concepts [siddhamsa is a concept supported by ancient> > astrological classics, but Siddhamsa chart is a concept NOT supported by> > any astrological classics]> > * No authentic astrological text states that - "lagna should be in> > trines/7th to Me/Ve in Siddhamsa Chart" [This is just a self made> > theory that goes against the Sage quotes]> > Let us try to understand 'what the sages said and meant', before start> > creating self made theories without base.> > ==>> > > 7. Also, truth is eternally there. Sage Parashara has only put forth> > his realizations in BPHS teachings, so did I and with reasonable> > explanations within the scope of my current knowledge on this subject.> > <==> > Logic and argumentation is NOT truth, knowledge or realization - it is> > just a theory or argument; and such new born theories does not have much> > value in an Agama Sastra like Astrology especially when the new born> > theory goes against the words of sages and basic derived logic (logics> > derived from base concepts).> > ==>> > > It may not make sense to many well-read people, but then nobody,> > including those on other lists, have pointed out a flaw in the basic> > principles. While none of us are omniscient sages, the quest for truth> > must go on.> > <==> > Those on the other lists such as SJC or anything else is NOT relevant> > here; this list is unique and tries to preserve and understand the> > ancient astrological knowledge in its purity, non contaminated by wild> > and usually flowed new born theories. The quest of truth is good, but> > that starts from the quest for facts and basic info and new from the> > quest to create new theories.> > Hope that you will agree> > Love and regards,> > Sreenadh> > > > , "yeeahoo_99"> > <nitish.arya@> wrote:> > >> > > || OM TAT SAT ||> > > Dear Sreenadh,> > >> > > You mail suggests that the article needs to be simplified more if> > the following explanation suffices.> > >> > > 1. Firstly, it is well known fact that BPHS doesn't extol the usage> > of Pranapada as far as BT rectification is concerned, which is why it is> > a research work. BPHS mentions the derivation and usage of Pranapada> > only according to Bhavas and not even Rashis/Planets to make any> > meaningful derivation about BT rectification from it.> > >> > > 2. This paper doesn't go against the words of Parashara, because> > Parashara never mentioned usage of Pranapada in Varga charts or for BT> > rectification. Also, it doesn't violate known principles of Jyotish.> > >> > > 3. It is notable that SJC tradition uses Pranapada based BT> > rectification method wherein -- PP should be in trines/7th to Moon/lagna> > in D-9. Similar usage of trines/7th has been regarded in this paper as> > well. So, in theory, this kind of usage of PP is not something absurd.> > Further, I have nowhere written that PP has to jump signs in trines/7th> > in D-60/D-24, PP moves as it does and birth happens only when those two> > rules are observed. The simple logic is the Yoga principles behind these> > rules.> > >> > > 4. It is mentioned in the beginning of the article that it is a> > work based on Yoga and Jyotish teachings to caution the reader who would> > not be knowledgeable about the intricate mechanisms of Breath and Prana.> > This makes it a bit difficult to relate to, and therefore the simple> > mapping tables have been given.> > >> > > 5. It is not just Astrology texts that have the word of Sages. Yoga> > has produced more sages in Kali-Yuga than Astrology at any time and the> > words of those sages have been referred. So, when you say that it is not> > sage supported, it is not correct. Reference is biography of Yogiraj> > Lahiri Mahashaya by his grandson Sri Satyacharana lahiri. It is> > well-known that Lahiri Mahashaya was a Sage of modern times.> > >> > > 6. Which other parts of the paper do you find have not been> > explained enough, so that they need to be elucidated ?> > >> > > 7. Also, truth is eternally there. Sage Parashara has only put> > forth his realizations in BPHS teachings, so did I and with reasonable> > explanations within the scope of my current knowledge on this subject.> > >> > > It may not make sense to many well-read people, but then nobody,> > including those on other lists, have pointed out a flaw in the basic> > principles. While none of us are omniscient sages, the quest for truth> > must go on.> > >> > > Regards,> > > Nitish> > >> > > , "Sreenadh" sreesog@> > wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Nitish,> > > > This whole concept is not true and is NOT in tune with the> > teachings> > > > of even Parasara who first speaks about Pranapada. For example -> > > > ============================================> > > > Sage Parasara gives us the results for Pranapada in all the 12> > houses,> > > > which indicates that Parasara never suggested that Pranapada would> > > > come only in the trines of lagna and 7th. Thus it becomes clear that> > > > this method of using Pranapada for BT rectification is neither> > logical,> > > > nor sage supported.> > > > > > > >> > Sreenadh> > > > OG/Birth%20Rectification%20%28Complete%29.pdf> > > >> > <Sreenadh%2\> > \> > > > 0OG/Birth%20Rectification%20%28Complete%29.pdf>> > > > ============================================> > > > Hope this helps.> > > > From where you got all these absurd rules? Such as -> > > > ===>> > > > 1) For a baby to be born with Breath> > > > <http://astrology.ydiary.com/articles/tag/breath> , the PRANA> > > > <http://astrology.ydiary.com/articles/tag/prana> -pada lagna should> > be> > > > in trines/7th to Moon/Sun in Shastyamsa> > > > <http://astrology.ydiary.com/articles/tag/shastyamsa> Chart (D-60).> > > > 2) The PRANA <http://astrology.ydiary.com/articles/tag/prana> -pada> > > > lagna should be in trines/7th to Me/Ve in Siddhamsa> > > > <http://astrology.ydiary.com/articles/tag/siddhamsa> Chart (D-24).> > > > 3)> > > > <===> > > > What is your reference? The following rules goes even against the> > > > words of Parasara who introduced the concept of Pranapada! I would> > like> > > > to see your further comments about the above statement.> > > > Love and Regards,> > > > Sreenadh> > > >> > > > , "yeeahoo_99"> > > > <nitish.arya@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > || OM TAT SAT ||> > > > > Dear list,> > > > > The updated article incorporating the discussions in my last> > mail> > > > can be read from my blog:> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > http://astrology.ydiary.com/articles/pranapada/pranapada-method-birth-ti\> > \> > > > me-rectification> > > > >> > > > > Regards,> > > > > Nitish> > > > >> > > > > , "yeeahoo_99"> > > > nitish.arya@ wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > || OM TAT SAT ||> > > > > > Dear Gaurav, Nandana, Guru,> > > > > >> > > > > > First of all, am happy to see that we are having an open> > > > > > discussion. Thanks to you all and I will try to answer all> > > > questions.> > > > > >> > > > > > [Gaurav]> > > > > > The basic idea came from a text on yoga that mapped the 10> > bodily> > > > > > prana to the 10 incarnations of Devi and which we know maps to> > the 9> > > > > > planets+lagna in Jyotish. So, I have put the mapping table at> > the> > > > end> > > > > > of the article.> > > > > >> > > > > > In my understanding, the process of birth involve two factors:> > > > > > 1. Physical level> > > > > > Cutting of umbilical cord --> This causes the fixation of lagna> > as> > > > > > lagna rules the Samana Prana maintaining the Navel Chakra. In my> > > > > > view, Kunda sign has to be in trines/7th to D-60 lagna.> > > > > >> > > > > > 2. Mental level> > > > > > Breathing effort --> As per yoga texts, "Breath" is a mental> > concept> > > > > > or a thought (HaM + SaH beeja mantra). It is also mentioned that> > > > > > while in the womb and after death, breath flows in sushumna in> > the> > > > > > subtle body, and when in the physical body, it flows alternately> > > > > > through the ida and pingala which are linked to the two> > nostrils.> > > > > > When the baby is separated physically from the mother, it> > makes an> > > > > > effort to breath from the two nostrils.> > > > > > Without this effort the subconscious mind (D-13 to D-24) will> > not> > > > > > acquire a habit of breathing. Siddhamsa, gives Siddhi, and How?> > By> > > > > > controlling the oscillations of Prana (caused by the storm of> > > > breath)> > > > > > and keeping it still, stills the mind automatically, and then> > dives> > > > > > deeper in meditation to achieve Siddhis accorrding to Yoga> > sutras of> > > > > > Patanjali.> > > > > > This breathing effort Ham+SaH involves two chakras,Ajna and> > > > > > Vishuddhi, and then the derivation of D-60 chart as already> > > > explained> > > > > > in the article.> > > > > >> > > > > > [Nandana]> > > > > > Am concerned with understanding the principles of birth, and> > > > > > without the octuplets data, it would not have been possible to> > > > refute> > > > > > the standing theories on the usage of Kunda and Pranapada as you> > > > have> > > > > > already seen in my mails on Sohamsa, which was a necessary step> > to> > > > > > establish what has been said till now. To apply it on any other> > > > case,> > > > > > would be the work of those who want to experiment, and> > practically> > > > > > use it.> > > > > >> > > > > > [Guru]> > > > > > The earlier usage of Pranapada, as you search the internet,> > is to> > > > > > see the Pranapada from trines/7th to Moon/lagna in D-9. This> > theory> > > > > > has been refuted by taking the example of 8 babies birth in L.A.> > > > > > The same example, also refutes the use of Kunda in trines/7th> > to> > > > > > lagna/lagna lord (whichever is stronger). The refutation> > happened by> > > > > > showing that it is not possible to use any of these two> > techniques> > > > to> > > > > > divide 5 minutes in a manner that allows for 8 consecutive> > births.> > > > > > Also, in my view, Pranapada as reference point changes the> > way we> > > > > > see the chart altogether i.e. we are looking at the subtle> > forces or> > > > > > prana. So Sun/Moon are Devadatta/Udana prana of yoga and not the> > > > > > zodiacal Sun/Moon, but they both bind together by the common> > thread> > > > > > of the 10 incarnations of Devi.> > > > > >> > > > > > Regards,> > > > > > Nitish> > > > > >> > > > > > , "Gaurav> > > > > > Ghosh" <gaurav.ghosh@> wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > ||Jai Ramakrishna||> > > > > > > Dear Mr.Arya,> > > > > > > I have gone through your article.Rectification of time of> > birth,> > > > > > based> > > > > > > on Pranapada Lagna, was discussed before, back in the year> > 2004,> > > > if> > > > > > I> > > > > > > remember correctly, in the forums, 4-5 years before.> > > > > > > My question to you is:-> > > > > > > 1)Why D-60 & D-24 chart??If I am not mistaken, the former is> > being> > > > > > used> > > > > > > to find out the names & it has got no specific chart--which I> > have> > > > > > > learnt till now.The names can be either good or bad, like> > Malefic> > > > & > > > > > > > benefic shastyamsa.How will you erect a D-60 chart?(Without a> > > > > > software> > > > > > > of course---it is a software after all, neither BPHS, Jatak> > > > > > Parijata or> > > > > > > Brihat Jatakam).> > > > > > > 2)Even if you can cast a D-60 chart, the PP Lagna will change> > in> > > > > > every 5> > > > > > > seconds.Even if with the incorrect Birthtime we have PP Lagna> > in> > > > > > > Trikona/7th from Sun/Moon, how can one be assured that he is> > > > working> > > > > > > with the correct Birthtime??May be one can cross-check & match> > the> > > > > > past> > > > > > > events, but people is interested to know the future,as we all> > want> > > > > > to> > > > > > > move ahead & live in the future.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Now the Big question, as Shree KN Rao once posted these> > questions> > > > > > in his> > > > > > > website & in a book as "Ruminations of an Astrologer" & this> > > > worries> > > > > > > most of the practising astrologers.> > > > > > > Which time will be considered as correct birth time??> > > > > > > a)Bhoo-paatan.> > > > > > > b)Coming out of head/hand.> > > > > > > c)When the umbilical cord is cut.> > > > > > > d)First cry.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Thank you,> > > > > > > .> > > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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