[WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

[Guest guest]

Namaste Ruthenamji,

 

Please give supporting data with concrete references and not just your imaginative assertions, which have no value at all. I am a Hindu. Can you please let know your religious affiliation too. However if you have any reservation in telling that please let me know and also let me know how much you know about your own scriptures, before dabbling in others'.

 

In your last letter you were talking vehemently about Winter Solstice. In that connection I asked to find out why December 25 was chosen as the Christmas day. Now you seem to be evading that completely. What type of scholarship is this? Reputed western scholars do not do like this. --- On Fri, 2/27/09, yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 wrote:

yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Mattersunil_bhattacharjya, waves-vedic , "Robert E. Wilkinson" <robtwCc: vedicscience, atlantavedictemple, deenbc, jyotirved, harimalla, robtw, , Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 12:20 AM

 

 

Namaste Bhattacharjyaji

 

...

Although tradition holds that an ancient sage called Vyasa wrote the Mahabharata, it was almost certainly composed by a number of different poets and then collected into a single work sometime between 300 B.C. and A.D. 350. The epic reached its present form about 200 years later. It contains nearly 100,000 verses and is divided into 18 sections called parvans. It consists of many legends and tales revolving around the conflicts between two branches of a mythical family. The stories involve deities, demigods, and heroes. Some people foolishly argue that these legends contain elements of cosmology, philosophy, and religious doctrine Cosmology is a set

of ideas about the origin, history, and structure of the universe, and the imaginary claim of Aurobindo and others borders on insanity. They foolishly claim without any scientific evidence that the Mahabharata belongs to the Dvapar Yuga. Cosmology proves that the Ramayana is much older than the Mahabharata. It does not go beyond the Vindhyas. However, in the case of the Mahabharata, the whole of India was known and the rulers from the south also came to participate in the Mahabharata war. Paninini mentions Vasudeve, Arjuna and Yudhisthira. The Pandavas are not known to the Brhamanas. It is clear from these facts that Vyasa alone did not write the Mahaabharata. It is also quite evident from these facts that the Mahabharata is based on mythology and its heroes and heroines are not historical figures.

 

 

A section of the epic called the Bhagavad Gita is the most important religious text of Hinduism. But it was introduced at a later stage by the Gupta rulers to thwart the growing tide of Buddhism. It was interwoven by borrowing ideas from Buddhism and Christianity to give the Mahabharata the image of a religious text. There were Greek satrapies in India before Kanishka came to power. There were Indian ambassadors in the courts of Roman Emperors Augustus, Trajan, Hadrian, Constantine , Julian and Justinian. There was a flourishing Indian population permanently settled in Alexandria . The first Gupta ruler, Chandra Gupta I came to power in 319 A.D. But 300 years before the Guptas came to power, St.Thomas was in the court of Gondopharnes, and from the northwest, Thomas spread the message of Jesus to many in the northern region and finally came to Mylapore and Kerala.

Although, the Mahabharata is a war literature, the religious part in the epic was later appended by the Gupta kings by heavily borrowing from Christianity and Buddhism.

 

 

 

 

 

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjyawaves-vedic Cc: yeshu2004; vedicscience; atlantavedictemple; deenbc; jyotirved; harimalla; robtw; ; Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 10:00:59 AM[WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry Ruthenamji,

 

There is a typo.

 

Please read the sentence "Hindus believe in one God but respecting the superiors are looked down upon by them." as "Hindus believe in one God but respecting the superiors are not looked down upon by them."

 

Regards,

 

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya--- On Wed, 2/25/09, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @> wrote:

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @> Re: Fw: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matterwaves-vedicCc: yeshu2004 , vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com, deenbc , jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com, harimalla@rocketmai l.com, robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com, , ancient_indian_ astrologyWednesday, February 25, 2009, 8:09 PM

 

 

Dear Shri Ruthenamji, You wrote : Quote The Veda, the Mahabharata war and all Sanskrit literature were brought to light by European scholars. It is cnfirmed that the Mahabharata war was a sheer myth. Unquote I know that European scholars translated the Veda and the Epics into English as they valued these and they wanted their own people to read them and that was a favour to themselves. Indians had these in Sanskrit as well as in their vernacular languages.1)Do you know that till the year 1882 the King James version of the Bible gave the year of creation as 4004 BCE, whereas the Indian texts, which you are condemning without any substantiation, gave the age of the earth as several billion years, which is the same as what the modern science says.?2)Do you know yourself as to why and from when the Christmas began to be celebrated

on December 25 when Jesus Christ himself was born on an earlier month and his year of birth is also on 4 BCE? You should know it first before you say anything about the Winter Solstice. Can you substantiate your statement that the Mahabharata war was a myth and that no such war took place at all? The Indians know how to interpret their ancient texts. The Puranas and Epics are historical texts called Itihasas, interspersed with stories and anecdotes in order to give out the Vedic truths to the masses, through them. You also said : Quote Similarly, the Vedas written by primitive people and like all primitive societies they pray to god for food, health and victory in the war. Unquote The gods in Hinduism, Buddhism (like Tara, amd Manjushri) and Jainism are like the angels of the Semitic religion. Hindus believe that they are

superior beings and they are also created by God and that they are at a higher evolutionary step than we are. The Quran also did not say that one should not seek favour from the angels. Even prophet Muhammad was complaining to the Archangel Gabriel about the latter's coming late.. to him. Hindus believe in one God but respecting the superiors are looked down upon by them. May be you do not know how to respect your superiors. The Vedas cannot be understood by everybody and you are one of them. However if you wish to learn these then you have to go to a guru with due respect and he will teach you provided he finds you worthy of that. As regards Wilkinsonji' s mail I have replied to that in a separate mail.. Regards, Sunil K. Bhattacharjya--- On Wed, 2/25/09, yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 > wrote:yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 >Fw: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Mattersunil_bhattacharjya @, waves04@ .comCc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, "atlanta vedic" <atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com>, "hinc liz" <hinducivilization>, deenbc (AT) hotmail (DOT) com, harimalla@rocketmai l.comWednesday, February 25, 2009, 6:38 PM----- Forwarded Message ----yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 >Robert E.. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>Thursday, February 26, 2009 8:02:06 AMRe: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter"\the March Equinox - Cosmic Dawn; the June Solstice - Cosmic Midnight; the September Equinox - Cosmic Sunset; and last but best of all, the December Solstice - Cosmic Midday or Uttarayana, the highest position of the Sun whereby as a single Ray (the lost Sun hidden by Vritra) it descends to the Earth casting no shadows" It is all nonsense that you are writing. The Veda, the Mahabharata war and all Sanskrit literature were

brought to light by European scholars. It is cnfirmed that the Mahabharata war was a sheer myth. Then how can you try to fix the date? Similarly, the Vedas written by primitive people and like all primitive societies they pray to god for food, health and victory in the war. It is sheer madness to claim philosophy and science in the primittive works.Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>sunil_bhattacharjya @; waves-vedicCc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com; atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com; hinducivilization; deenbc ; jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com; harimalla@rocketmai l.comWednesday, February 25, 2009 9:01:08 PMRe: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter Namaste Sunil K. Bhattacharj- ji Thank you for your reply. If you would be so kind, please provide me with the exact citation where Sri Aurobindo discusses the date of the Mahabharata war. The root of your error is plainly evident. When you write that, “…for nearly twenty two centuries the Uttarayana did take place in the Makar Rashi. but we have to live in the present situation when the

Uttarayana does not occur in the Makar Rashi†, you are basing your conclusions on the Nirayana Sidereal system of calendar measure with its irregular Constellations and shifting ayanamsha. This is not only unreliable and confusing but worst of all it is un-Vedic. It directly contradicts the verses in the Rig Veda that describe “One wheel of three-hundred and sixty spokes, firmly riveted, that shake not in the least.†This ‘One Wheel’ is the eternal and unchanging Tropical zodiac or Sayana system used by the Rishis to precisely measure the Earth in its yearly passage around the ecliptic as well as a corresponding movement in the individual. The errors of the Nirayana system, to which you evidently , arose with the hegemony ofscientific relativism into the realm of the sacred when the astronomer usurped the role of the sage and seer and proclaimed objective astronomical measurement to be the final authority in calendar

matters. All that you have written to support your contention that there is no meaningful connection between Makar Sankranti, the Capricorn Solstice and Uttarayana, the northward journey of Sun is, in the final analysis, a direct contradiction of the Dharma. Open your mind and listen to the words of the world’s leading Seer and Vedic Cosmologist on these important matters: “…We speak glibly of a SANTANA Dharma, the 'eternal' Law. But what sort of eternal law, and consequent stability, can a shifting calendar provide the Hindu Samaj? The FLOATING AYANAMSHAS in vogue today, which bear no sanction in the Veda, are anything but stable and constant. Each second that passes of our Earth time causes that distant sidereal point light-years away to change position, thereby making that Ayanamsha with each passing second inoperable and inapplicable for any ritual. If the pundit is sincere to his trade, he must know this.

He must know that yesterday's Ayanamsha cannot be held today as valid because IT HAS SHIFTED IN THE HEAVENS, perhaps slightly, but shifted it has. Today it is not where it was yesterday. And if we add to this the complete impossibility to determine just where and what that Ayanamsha might be, then we understand why there is total confusion among the ranks of the pundits. And Hinduism suffers an increasingdeterioration accordingly, with each ritual that propagates this illusion. Absolutism of the eternal Dharma lies within our grasp if we take the same Journey the Veda pre-scribes, poised on the immutable four Cardinal Points: the March Equinox - Cosmic Dawn; the June Solstice - Cosmic Midnight; the September Equinox - Cosmic Sunset; and last but best of all, the December Solstice - Cosmic Midday or Uttarayana, the highest position of the Sun whereby as a single Ray (the lost Sun hidden by Vritra) it descends to the Earth casting

no shadows. And therefore it is known as the period of Victory for the Aryan Warrior; or, in the larger cycles of time, as the Golden Age, the Satya Yuga. We need to understand the 'seed' nature of the Makar Sankranti and how it can be said that this is an experience of both the Earth, the individual and of the collective Hindu Samaj, all simultaneously on that very special Solstice.. This is understood when we realise that Time itself is compressed to a seed at the De-cember Solstice. The 'shortest day of the year' has no other factual significance for inhabitants of our special planet than this: compression to a point, compaction to a seed. The light of the Sun, those divine Cows/Rays, is compressed to this point-experience of Time when its measure reaches the extremes of itself [the Solstice or SHORTEST day of the year]. And then when the [Makar] Sankranti is observed with the right 'combination' - the right harmony of the Earth

to the Ecliptic - the entire Hindu Samaj connects itself through this 'seed-point' to the replenishing Source from which it originally sprang. Today as in aeons gone by,it can drink once again of the waters the Goddess Mahasaraswati benignly releases abroad upon the world. “Thea†Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet, THE MAKAR SANKRANTI - Winter Solstice RE Wilkinson- Sunil Bhattacharjya waves-vedic Cc: robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com ; vedicscience@ rediffmail. com ; atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com ; hinducivilization ; deenbc ; jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com ; harimalla@rocketmai l.com Tuesday, February 24, 2009 8:54 PMRe: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important MatterNamaste R..E.Wilkinsonji, Namaste, You wrote as follows: Quote What you write is very interesting indeed but it

fails to grasp the underlying truth of the Makar Sankranti and the Capricorn Gateway. Because of this, your conclusions regarding the Makar Sankranti and Winter Solstice, the Sayana and Nirayana systems are completely incorrect.unquote On the contrary you have not understood the difference between the significance of Makara Sankranti and that of Uttarayana. You have referred to Sri Aurobindo. Starting from the day when Lele taught him how to meditate he did advance to high level of thought. But all that Sri Aurobindo said are not to be taken blindly. He said that the Mahabharata war took place in 1190 BCE and we now know that he was wrong from the archaeological evidence itself as the river Saraswati dried up much before 1190 BCE and that at the time of the Mahabharata war it was flowing and Balarama's going to the Saraswati is mentioned in the Mahabharata. . You have quoted from the Rig Veda. Agreed that

Brahmanaspati (Brihaspati) did make the knowledge appear (or known) that the certain eternal worlds came into being, which open their doors with moons ( bright and dark fortnights) and autumns (seasons) and that these (the eternal worlds) move effortlessly from one to another, but it did not link up the Makar Rashi with any season. In the Chapter 8 of the Bhagavad Gita Lord Krishna describes the path by which the yogi, who has known the Brahman departs. Lord Krishna also describes the path by which the yogi, who is disciplined but has not realised Brahman, goes. Other sources such as the Chandogya Upanishad, Baudhayana smriti, Shiva gita and Kurma purana give details of these aspects but nowhere they have linked up Makar Sankranti with Uttarayana. Different ancient texts, composed at different time periods, mention a particular season occurring at different Nakshatras which shows that the seasonsare not tied to

the Nakshatras and as the Winter season starts with the Uttarayana so also the Uttarayana should also be not linked to any Nakshatra or Rashi. Makar Sankramana is about Sankramana of the Makar rashi. As I said before that for nearly twenty two centuries the Uttarayana did take place in the Makar Rashi. but we have to live in the present situation when the Uttarayana does not occur in the Makar Rashi. If you have any doubt abiout the real meaning of rashi, please go to my last mail. Let the truth prevail. It is not late for the astrologers, who did not know this, to correct themselves and recognise that Winter Solstice need not be linked up with the Makar Sankramana. Regards, Sunil K. Bhattacharjya --- On Tue, 2/24/09, Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com> wrote:Robert E.. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE:

Fwd: An Important Mattersunil_bhattacharjya @Cc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com, HinduCalendar, hinducivilization, waves-vedic, deenbc , jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com, harimalla@rocketmai l.comTuesday, February 24, 2009, 9:16 AM Namaste Sunil K. Bhattacharjya- ji What you write is very interesting indeed but it fails to grasp the underlying truth of the Makar Sankranti and the Capricorn Gateway. Because of this, your conclusions regarding the Makar Sankranti and Winter Solstice, the Sayana and Nirayana systems are completely incorrect. These are matters of Veda, obtained through Shruti as you mentioned. But in order to secure a higher understanding of these important matters we must go back to the Vedic scriptures themselves. As a matter of curiosity, How many of you on this study group have even

read Sri Aurobindo’s “Secret of the Veda� If this group is truly about Vedic Studies, we must get serious about it and go directly to the source. That said, there is no better authority on the Veda than Sri Aurobindo. He has plainly stated that the Vedas are the oldest extant spiritual scriptures on earth. Its name, “Veda†- the Knowledge, is the received name for the highest spiritual truth of which the human mind is capable. Over the millennia however this high knowledge became lost or corrupted. “As the Veda had passed from the sage to the priest, wrote Sri Aurobindo, so now it began to pass from the hands of the priest into the hands of the scholar. And in that keeping it suffered the last mutilation of its sense and the last diminution of its true dignity and sanctity.†What we are seeing today on WAVES is a continuation of that mutilation and diminution…not through scholars, but through self-important

pseudo-scholars like Yeshu Rathenam who are given free rein to post comments that the Veda are a “worthless set of books. This has to stop! Among the many secrets of the Veda given by the ancient sages, are precise instructions, yogic techniques, the goal of which is to help us ascend beyond our mortal mentality to the luminous truth of our being on the spiritual plane of our existence. The Rishis are quite plain spoken on this account. The secret of secrets, the greatest mystery of the Veda is a supremely enlightened state “Swar†which results from a perfect alignment of the individual with the twelve months of the sacrificial year. "Certain eternal worlds are these which have come into being, their doors are shut to you (or opened) by the months and the years. Without effort one world moves in the other, and it is these that Brihaspati has made manifest to knowledge" Rig Veda

(II.24.5) These secret eternal worlds have been closed to us by our misperception of the movement of time. The months and the years, therefore have to be re-discovered and created in us by that same power. This, says the Rishi, is the mightiest work, the fairest achievement and it hinges on the conquest of time. “The Vedic idea was that the subconscient darkness and the ordinary life of ignorance held concealed in it all that belongs to the divine life and that these secret riches must be recovered first by destroying the impenitent powers of ignorance and then by possessing the lower life subjected to the higher.†Sri Aurobindo, Secret of the Veda (p. 238) What we are interested in writes Sri Aurobindo, is the process by which one is able to release the soul’s light and come to know and live the higher stages of the journey and in so doing, developing ‘the unity

of the nine-rayed and the ten-rayed seers who by the utter thought of the soul, by the word that illumines broke open the fortified pens ...' This then is the Vedic sacrifice: ‘ a journey; indeed the sacrifice itself is described as travelling, as journeying to a divine goal; and the journey and the sacrifice are continually spoken of as a battle against the dark powers.' Ibid, (p. 183) '. .. . the possession of our complete divine consciousness delivered from all falsehood by the free descent of the truth, gives us the secure possession of the world of Swar and the enjoyment of mental and physical being lifted into the godhead above the darkness, falsehood and death by the in-streaming of our divine elements. This victory is won in twelve periods of the upward journey, represented by the revolution of the twelve months of the sacrificial year, the periods corresponding to the successive dawns of a wider and wider

truth, until the tenth secures the victory. What may be the precise significance of the nine rays and the ten, is a more difficult question which we are not yet in a position to solve*. But the light we have already is sufficient to illuminate all the main imagery of the Rig Veda.' Ibid (p. 182) In his Secret of the Veda, Sri Aurobindo described these worlds of Swar as “Godheads†but it was not until the cosmological discoveries made by “Thea†Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet that these symbols, Vedic “godheads†of “the nine rays and the ten†were revealed to be synonymous with and referring to the 9th and 10th months of the cosmic year: Sagittarius and Capricorn. And, according to the Rishi, it is in the Tenth Month (CAPRICORN) that the final Victory is achieved. It is for this reason and none other that the Makar Sankranti, the Capricorn Gateway, is the most important ritual date in the Hindu Calendar. Perhaps you will

now understand why it is so important that the true Makar Sankranti (Winter Solstice) be observed on 21 December and not 14 January. In the service of Truth, RE Wilkinson - Sunil Bhattacharjya Robert E. Wilkinson Monday, February 23, 2009 7:47 PMRe: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important MatterDear Robert E. wilkinsonji, Namaste, The astrologers like AKK show concern at Makar Sankranti being observed about three weeks after the Winter Solstice but they never care to know what is the true meaning of the Makar Sankranti. Makar is the Makar rashi and Sankranti means the act of Sankraman or intrusion. So Makar Sankranti has to when the Sun enters the Makar Rashi. AKK and others never care to know why Makar Rashi is considered important. Shravana nakshatra is in the Makar rashi and this is

Nakshatra ruled by Shri Hari. Shravana and Shruti has the same origin and Shruti is the Veda. Shravana is considered asthe Nakshatra of the Veda-Mata Saraswati. Before Abhijit Nakshatra, whose ruler is Brahmaa, moved away to become the Pole-star, Abhijit used to be a Nakshatra in the makar rashi. Appropriately Makar rashi was called the Brahma rashi in the Mahabharata. Astrologically also the Makar Rashi is considered to be Rashi of Bharatvarsha. Thus the Makar Rashi has a unique position andthe Sun's entry into the Makar Rashi is an important event. Thus the Makar Sankranti has been and will be observed when the Sun enters the Makar Rashi. Now it is also true that at one time the Winter Solstice did take place in the Makar Rashi for close to twenty two centuries. Even the latitudinal line at the point of the Winter Solstice had begun to be called as the Makar Rekha or the Tropic

of Capricorn and this was appropriate only as long as the Wlnter Solstice occurred in the true Makar Rashi. So AKK and others think that Makar Sankranti and Winter Solstice are synonymous, forgetting that this can only happen only for close to twenty two centuries at a time and then wait for close to twenty four Millennia for that to reoccur. This is not to say that the Winter Solstice has no importance. The Tropical Calendar cannot do without the recognising the Winter Solstice. So the Tropical calendar has to learn to coexist with the Sidereal calendar. If those who want to observe the Winter Solstice as the Uttarayana day can observe it by all means. So let us have one additional festivalday on the Uttarayana day for those who want to onserve that rather than trying to annul the Makar Sankranti festival on the day when the Sun enters the Makar Rashi.

Regards, Sunil K. Bhattacharjya --- On Mon, 2/23/09, Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com> wrote:Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Mattersunil_bhattacharjya @, harimalla@rocketmai l.comCc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com, HinduCalendar, hinducivilization, waves-vedic, deenbc , jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) comMonday, February 23, 2009, 7:55 AMNamaste Hari Mala-ji,Thank you for your response and the interesting information about the Makar. You bring up some interesting points in your letter which I feel the need to address in some detail. Let me begin with your request that those of us interested in Calendar Reform do this through a "concerted effort and if possible without

changing any of the current practices and by not insisting on any particular method. It is your belief that this would be the best type of reform and acceptable to most". I am sure you have the best of intentions but your reply reveals exactly what is WRONG with the general attitude surrounding these important matters. Let me explain: First, it is virtually impossible to reform the calendar through a concerted effort given the wide gaps in understanding evidenced by these discussions on WAVES. I agree with you that Dr. Arya is worthy of praise but, in my opinion, the scholarship of Krishen Kaul and Yeshu Rathenam does not rise to that level. Nevertheless you would prefer that we find an inclusive solution, without changing the current practices and acceptable to most. In other words you would be comfortable with some kind of compromise that doesn’t rock the boat. You are evidently unaware that when it comes to matters of Higher

Truth and the cosmological absolutes that the Veda prescribes, compromise is simply not an option. What is required is credible LEADERSHIP that can expose the fallacious logic that so often passes for wisdom on this discussion group. What I find simply unbelievable is that many of the members of WAVES, people who supposedly have some knowledge of the Veda,accept the pretentious posturing of AKK as gospel while virtually ignoring the authoritative statements of Veda masters like Sri Aurobindo, “Thea†Patrizia-Norelli- Bachelet and Swami Dayananda Saraswati. No discrimination is made between the opinions of scholars and the direct knowledge of the sage. Naturally this results in an environment of mass confusion out of which true Calendar Reform cannot emerge. And what is the result? One of the esteemed leaders of a Vedic Temple in the US reads what I have written on calendar reform and, not being a Sanskritist or Jyotish scholar

himself, he writes and asks AKK to set him straight out of his vast experience and knowledge. Here is someone who holds a position of trust and leadership in the religious community, responsible for the spiritual guidance of others, and he has no understanding of these important matters. I have written him on several occasions to ask for a fair hearing but, because of his faith in AKK, I have not received even the courtesy of a reply. So this man, having placed his confidence in a person of no realization and preferring not to rock the boat, returns to his flock and leads them on a path of Adharma rather than make a sincere effort to establish what is and is not the truth of the Veda. Now multiply this by tens of thousands and you have some idea of the problem we must overcome tore-establish the Sanatana Dharma. So to answer your question, No! we cannot give in to compromise. No! we cannot continue the current Nirayana

practices and Yes!, we must insist on the method laid down in the Veda if we are to have any meaningful reform of the Calendar. As for the names of the temples in India that have embraced the beginnings of Calendar reform, you will find them listed on my website http://www.vediccos mology.com. In the service of truth, RE Wilkinson Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1967 - Release 2/23/2009 7:17 AMChecked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1967 - Release 2/23/2009 7:17 AM

[Guest guest]

Dear Sunilji,

Why waste time over such writers, who may be for all we know, missionaries spreading anti-Hindu propoganda. They get money for doing this, while we loose our money because we spend our time on this.

In Our ISCKON temples, those who join, are give names such as "Mohan dasa, Prabhudasa, Bhaktidasa " etc.

Maybe in other sects too, they must be giving such names.

Check his id and name as well - ( we all know what yeshu stands for )

yeshu rathenam yeshu2004

regards,

Bhaskar.

 

, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:>> Namaste Ruthenamji,>  > Please give supporting data with concrete references and not just your imaginative assertions, which have no value at all. I am a Hindu. Can you please let know your religious affiliation too. However if you have any reservation in telling that please let me know  and also let me know how much you know about your own scriptures, before dabbling in others'. >  > In your last letter you were talking vehemently about Winter Solstice. In that connection I asked to find out why December 25 was chosen as the Christmas day. Now you seem to be evading that completely. What type of scholarship is this? Reputed western scholars do not do like this. > > --- On Fri, 2/27/09, yeshu rathenam yeshu2004 wrote:> > yeshu rathenam yeshu2004 Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter> sunil_bhattacharjya, waves-vedic , "Robert E. Wilkinson" robtw Cc: vedicscience, atlantavedictemple, deenbc, jyotirved, harimalla, robtw, , > Friday, February 27, 2009, 12:20 AM> > > > > > > Namaste Bhattacharjyaji> > > ..>  Although tradition holds that an ancient sage called Vyasa wrote the Mahabharata, it was almost certainly composed by a number of different poets and then collected into a single work sometime between 300 B.C. and A.D. 350. The epic reached its present form about 200 years later. It contains nearly 100,000 verses and is divided into 18 sections called parvans. It consists of many legends and tales revolving around the conflicts between two branches of a mythical family. The stories involve deities, demigods, and heroes. Some people foolishly argue that these legends contain elements of cosmology, philosophy, and religious doctrine Cosmology is a set of ideas about the origin, history, and structure of the universe, and the imaginary claim of Aurobindo and others borders on insanity. They foolishly claim without any scientific evidence that the Mahabharata belongs to the Dvapar Yuga. Cosmology proves that the Ramayana is much older than the> Mahabharata. It does not go beyond the Vindhyas. However, in the case of the Mahabharata, the whole of India was known and the rulers from the south also came to participate in the Mahabharata war. Paninini mentions Vasudeve, Arjuna and Yudhisthira. The Pandavas are not known to the Brhamanas. It is clear from these facts that Vyasa alone did not write the Mahaabharata. It is also quite evident from these facts that the Mahabharata is based on mythology and its heroes and heroines are not historical figures.>  >  > A section of the epic called the Bhagavad Gita is the most important religious text of Hinduism. But it was introduced at a later stage by the Gupta rulers to thwart the growing tide of Buddhism. It was interwoven by borrowing ideas from Buddhism and Christianity to give the Mahabharata the image of a religious text. There were Greek satrapies in India before Kanishka came to power. There were Indian ambassadors in the courts of Roman Emperors Augustus, Trajan, Hadrian, Constantine , Julian and Justinian. There was a flourishing Indian population permanently settled in Alexandria . The first Gupta ruler, Chandra Gupta I came to power in 319 A.D. But 300 years before the Guptas came to power, St.Thomas was in the court of Gondopharnes, and from the northwest, Thomas spread the message of Jesus to many in the northern region and finally came to Mylapore and Kerala. Although, the Mahabharata is a war literature, the religious part in the epic was later> appended by the Gupta kings by heavily borrowing from Christianity and Buddhism.>  >  > > > > > Sunil Bhattacharjya sunil_bhattacharjya waves-vedic > Cc: yeshu2004; vedicscience; atlantavedictemple; deenbc; jyotirved; harimalla; robtw; ; > Thursday, February 26, 2009 10:00:59 AM> [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter> > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry Ruthenamji, >  > There is a typo.>  > Please read the sentence "Hindus believe in one God but respecting the superiors are looked down upon by them." as "Hindus believe in one God but respecting the superiors are not looked down upon by them.">  > Regards,>  > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya> > --- On Wed, 2/25/09, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @> wrote:> > Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @>> Re: Fw: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter> waves-vedic> Cc: yeshu2004 , vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com, deenbc , jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com, harimalla@rocketmai l.com, robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com, , ancient_indian_ astrology> Wednesday, February 25, 2009, 8:09 PM> > > > > Dear Shri Ruthenamji,>  > You wrote :>  > Quote >  > The Veda, the Mahabharata war and all Sanskrit literature were brought to light by European scholars. It is cnfirmed that the Mahabharata war was a sheer myth. >  > Unquote>  > I know that European scholars translated the Veda and the Epics into English  as they valued these and they wanted their own people to read them and that was a favour to themselves. Indians had these in Sanskrit as well as in their vernacular languages.> 1)> Do you know that till the year 1882 the King James version of the Bible gave the year of creation as 4004 BCE, whereas the Indian texts, which you are condemning without any substantiation, gave the age of the earth as several billion years, which is the same as what the modern science says.?> 2)> Do you know yourself as to why and from when the Christmas began to be celebrated on  December 25 when Jesus Christ himself was born on an earlier month  and his year of birth is also on 4 BCE? You should know it first before you say anything about the Winter Solstice.>  > Can you substantiate your statement that the Mahabharata war was a myth and that no such war took place at all? The Indians know how to interpret their ancient texts. The Puranas and Epics are historical texts called Itihasas, interspersed with stories and anecdotes in order to give out the Vedic truths to the masses, through them. >  > You also said :>  > Quote>  > Similarly, the Vedas written by primitive people and like all primitive societies they pray to god for food, health and victory in the war.>  > Unquote>  > The gods in Hinduism, Buddhism (like Tara, amd Manjushri) and Jainism are like the angels of the Semitic religion. Hindus believe that they are superior beings and they are also created by God and that they are at a higher evolutionary step than we are. The Quran also did not say that one should not seek favour from the angels. Even prophet Muhammad was complaining to the Archangel Gabriel about the latter's coming late.. to him. Hindus believe in one God but respecting the superiors are looked down upon by them. May be you do not know how to respect your superiors. >  > The Vedas cannot be understood by everybody and you are one of them. However if you wish to learn these then you have to go to a guru with due respect and he will teach you provided he finds you worthy of that. >  > As regards Wilkinsonji' s mail I have replied to that in a separate mail.. >  > Regards,>  > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya> > --- On Wed, 2/25/09, yeshu rathenam yeshu2004 > wrote:> > yeshu rathenam yeshu2004 >> Fw: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter> sunil_bhattacharjya @, waves04@ .com> Cc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, "atlanta vedic" <atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com>, "hinc liz" <hinducivilization>, deenbc (AT) hotmail (DOT) com, harimalla@rocketmai l.com> Wednesday, February 25, 2009, 6:38 PM> > ----- Forwarded Message ----> yeshu rathenam yeshu2004 >> Robert E.. Wilkinson robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>> Thursday, February 26, 2009 8:02:06 AM> Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter> > "\the March Equinox - Cosmic Dawn; the June Solstice - Cosmic Midnight; the September Equinox - Cosmic Sunset; and last but best of all, the December Solstice - Cosmic Midday or Uttarayana, the highest position of the Sun whereby as a single Ray (the lost Sun hidden by Vritra) it descends to the Earth casting no shadows" It is all nonsense that you are writing. The Veda, the Mahabharata war and all Sanskrit literature were brought to light by European scholars. It is cnfirmed that the Mahabharata war was a sheer myth. Then how can you try to fix the date? Similarly, the Vedas written by primitive people and like all primitive societies they pray to god for food, health and victory in the war. It is sheer madness to claim philosophy and science in the primittive works.> > Robert E. Wilkinson robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>> sunil_bhattacharjya @; waves-vedic> Cc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com; atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com; hinducivilization; deenbc ; jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com; harimalla@rocketmai l.com> Wednesday, February 25, 2009 9:01:08 PM> Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter> >  > > Namaste Sunil K. Bhattacharj- ji>  > Thank you for your reply. If you would be so kind, please provide me with the exact citation where Sri Aurobindo discusses the date of the Mahabharata war. >  >  > The root of your error is plainly evident. When you write that, “…for nearly twenty two centuries the Uttarayana did take place in the Makar Rashi. but we have to live in the present situation when the Uttarayana does not occur in the Makar Rashi†, you are basing your conclusions on the Nirayana Sidereal system of calendar measure with its irregular Constellations and shifting ayanamsha. This is not only unreliable and confusing but worst of all it is un-Vedic. It directly contradicts the verses in the Rig Veda that describe “One wheel of three-hundred and sixty spokes, firmly riveted, that shake not in the least.†This ‘One Wheel’ is the eternal and unchanging Tropical zodiac or Sayana system used by the Rishis to precisely measure the Earth in its yearly passage around the ecliptic as well as a corresponding movement in the individual. The errors of the Nirayana system, to which you evidently , arose with the hegemony of> scientific relativism into the realm of the sacred when the astronomer usurped the role of the sage and seer and proclaimed objective astronomical measurement to be the final authority in calendar matters.>    > All that you have written to support your contention that there is no meaningful connection between Makar Sankranti, the Capricorn Solstice and Uttarayana, the northward journey of Sun is, in the final analysis, a direct contradiction of the Dharma. Open your mind and listen to the words of the world’s leading Seer and Vedic Cosmologist on these important matters:>  > “…We speak glibly of a SANTANA Dharma, the 'eternal' Law. But what sort of eternal law, and consequent stability, can a shifting calendar provide the Hindu Samaj? The FLOATING AYANAMSHAS in vogue today, which bear no sanction in the Veda, are anything but stable and constant. Each second that passes of our Earth time causes that distant sidereal point light-years away to change position, thereby making that Ayanamsha with each passing second inoperable and inapplicable for any ritual. If the pundit is sincere to his trade, he must know this. He must know that yesterday's Ayanamsha cannot be held today as valid because IT HAS SHIFTED IN THE HEAVENS, perhaps slightly, but shifted it has. Today it is not where it was yesterday. And if we add to this the complete impossibility to determine just where and what that Ayanamsha might be, then we understand why there is total confusion among the ranks of the pundits. And Hinduism suffers an increasing> deterioration accordingly, with each ritual that propagates this illusion.>  >  Absolutism of the eternal Dharma lies within our grasp if we take the same Journey the Veda pre-scribes, poised on the immutable four Cardinal Points: the March Equinox - Cosmic Dawn; the June Solstice - Cosmic Midnight; the September Equinox - Cosmic Sunset; and last but best of all, the December Solstice - Cosmic Midday or Uttarayana, the highest position of the Sun whereby as a single Ray (the lost Sun hidden by Vritra) it descends to the Earth casting no shadows. And therefore it is known as the period of Victory for the Aryan Warrior; or, in the larger cycles of time, as the Golden Age, the Satya Yuga.>    We need to understand the 'seed' nature of the Makar Sankranti and how it can be said that this is an experience of both the Earth, the individual and of the collective Hindu Samaj, all simultaneously on that very special Solstice.. This is understood when we realise that Time itself is compressed to a seed at the De-cember Solstice. The 'shortest day of the year' has no other factual significance for inhabitants of our special planet than this: compression to a point, compaction to a seed. The light of the Sun, those divine Cows/Rays, is compressed to this point-experience of Time when its measure reaches the extremes of itself [the Solstice or SHORTEST day of the year]. And then when the [Makar] Sankranti is observed with the right 'combination' - the right harmony of the Earth to the Ecliptic - the entire Hindu Samaj connects itself through this 'seed-point' to the replenishing Source from which it originally sprang. Today as in aeons gone by,> it can drink once again of the waters the Goddess Mahasaraswati benignly releases abroad upon the world. “Thea†Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet, THE MAKAR SANKRANTI - Winter Solstice  >  > RE Wilkinson> > - > Sunil Bhattacharjya > waves-vedic > Cc: robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com ; vedicscience@ rediffmail. com ; atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com ; hinducivilization ; deenbc ; jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com ; harimalla@rocketmai l.com > Tuesday, February 24, 2009 8:54 PM> Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter> > Namaste R..E.Wilkinsonji,>  > Namaste,>  > You wrote as follows:>  > Quote >  > What you write is very interesting indeed but it fails to grasp the underlying truth of the Makar Sankranti and the Capricorn Gateway. Because of this, your conclusions regarding the Makar Sankranti and Winter Solstice, the Sayana and Nirayana systems are completely incorrect.> > unquote>  > On the contrary you have not understood the difference between the significance of Makara Sankranti and that of Uttarayana. You have referred to Sri Aurobindo. Starting from the day when Lele taught him how to meditate he did advance to high level of thought. But all that Sri Aurobindo said are not to be taken blindly. He said that the Mahabharata war took place in 1190 BCE and we now know that he was wrong from the archaeological evidence itself as the river Saraswati dried up much before 1190 BCE and that at the time of the Mahabharata war it was flowing and Balarama's going to the Saraswati is mentioned in the Mahabharata. .>  > You have quoted from the Rig Veda. Agreed that Brahmanaspati (Brihaspati) did make the knowledge appear (or known) that the certain eternal worlds came into being, which open their doors with moons ( bright and dark fortnights) and autumns (seasons) and that these (the eternal worlds) move effortlessly from one to another, but it did not link up the Makar Rashi with any season. In the Chapter 8 of the Bhagavad Gita Lord Krishna describes the path by which the yogi, who has known the Brahman departs. Lord Krishna also describes the path by which the yogi, who is disciplined but has not realised Brahman, goes. Other sources such as the Chandogya Upanishad, Baudhayana smriti, Shiva gita and  Kurma purana give details of these aspects but nowhere they have linked up Makar Sankranti with Uttarayana. Different ancient texts, composed at different time periods,  mention a particular season occurring at different Nakshatras which shows that the seasons> are not tied to the Nakshatras and as the Winter season starts with the Uttarayana so also the Uttarayana should also be not linked to any Nakshatra or Rashi. Makar Sankramana is about Sankramana of the Makar rashi.  As I said before that for nearly twenty two centuries the Uttarayana did take place in the Makar Rashi. but we have to live in the present situation when the Uttarayana does not occur in the Makar Rashi. If you have any doubt abiout the real meaning of rashi, please go to my last mail.>  > Let the truth prevail. It is not late for the astrologers, who did not know this, to correct themselves and recognise that Winter Solstice need not be linked up with the Makar Sankramana.>  > Regards,>  > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya>  >  >  > --- On Tue, 2/24/09, Robert E. Wilkinson robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com> wrote:> > Robert E.. Wilkinson robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>> Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter> sunil_bhattacharjya @> Cc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com, HinduCalendar, hinducivilization, waves-vedic, deenbc , jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com, harimalla@rocketmai l.com> Tuesday, February 24, 2009, 9:16 AM> >  > > Namaste Sunil K. Bhattacharjya- ji >  > What you write is very interesting indeed but it fails to grasp the underlying truth of the Makar Sankranti and the Capricorn Gateway. Because of this, your conclusions regarding the Makar Sankranti and Winter Solstice, the Sayana and Nirayana systems are completely incorrect. These are matters of Veda, obtained through Shruti as you mentioned. But in order to secure a higher understanding of these important matters we must go back to the Vedic scriptures themselves. > > As a matter of curiosity, How many of you on this study group have even read Sri Aurobindo’s  “Secret of the Veda� If this group is truly about Vedic Studies, we must get serious about it and go directly to the source.  That said, there is no better authority on the Veda than Sri Aurobindo. He has plainly stated that the Vedas are the oldest extant spiritual scriptures on earth. Its name, “Veda†- the Knowledge, is the received name for the highest spiritual truth of which the human mind is capable. Over the millennia however this high knowledge became lost or corrupted. “As the Veda had passed from the sage to the priest, wrote Sri Aurobindo, so now it began to pass from the hands of the priest into the hands of the scholar. And in that keeping it suffered the last mutilation of its sense and the last diminution of its true dignity and sanctity.†What we are seeing today on WAVES is a continuation of that mutilation and diminution…> not through scholars, but through self-important pseudo-scholars like Yeshu Rathenam who are given free rein to post comments that the Veda are a “worthless set of books. This has to stop! > >  > > Among the many secrets of the Veda given by the ancient sages, are precise instructions, yogic techniques, the goal of which is to help us ascend beyond our mortal mentality to the luminous truth of our being on the spiritual plane of our existence. The Rishis are quite plain spoken on this account. The secret of secrets, the greatest mystery of the Veda is a supremely enlightened state “Swar†which results from a perfect alignment of the individual with the twelve months of the sacrificial year.  > >  > > "Certain eternal worlds are these which have come into being, their doors are shut to you (or opened) by the months and the years. Without effort one world moves in the other, and it is these that Brihaspati has made manifest to knowledge" Rig Veda  (II.24.5) > >  > > These secret eternal worlds have been closed to us by our misperception of the movement of time. The months and the years, therefore have to be re-discovered and created in us by that same power. This, says the Rishi, is the mightiest work, the fairest achievement and it hinges on the conquest of time. > >  > > “The Vedic idea was that the subconscient darkness and the ordinary life of ignorance held concealed in it all that belongs to the divine life and that these secret riches must be recovered first by destroying the impenitent powers of ignorance and then by possessing the lower life subjected to the higher.†Sri Aurobindo, Secret of the Veda (p. 238) > >  > > What we are interested in writes Sri Aurobindo, is the process by which one is able to release the soul’s light and come to know and live the higher stages of the journey and in so doing, developing ‘the unity of the nine-rayed and the ten-rayed seers who by the utter thought of the soul, by the word that illumines broke open the fortified pens ...' This then is the Vedic sacrifice: ‘ a journey; indeed the sacrifice itself is described as travelling, as journeying to a divine goal; and the journey and the sacrifice are continually spoken of as a battle against the dark powers.' Ibid, (p. 183) > >  > >  '. .. . the possession of our complete divine consciousness delivered from all falsehood by the free descent of the truth, gives us the secure possession of the world of Swar and the enjoyment of mental and physical being lifted into the godhead above the darkness, falsehood and death by the in-streaming of our divine elements. This victory is won in twelve periods of the upward journey, represented by the revolution of the twelve months of the sacrificial year, the periods corresponding to the successive dawns of a wider and wider truth, until the tenth secures the victory. What may be the precise significance of the nine rays and the ten, is a more difficult question which we are not yet in a position to solve*. But the light we have already is sufficient to illuminate all the main imagery of the Rig Veda.' Ibid (p. 182) > >  > > In his Secret of the Veda, Sri Aurobindo described these worlds of Swar as “Godheads†but it was not until the cosmological discoveries made by “Thea†Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet that these symbols, Vedic “godheads†of “the nine rays and the ten†were revealed to be synonymous with and referring to the 9th and 10th months of the cosmic year: Sagittarius and Capricorn. And, according to the Rishi, it is in the Tenth Month (CAPRICORN) that the final Victory is achieved. It is for this reason and none other that the Makar Sankranti, the Capricorn Gateway, is the most important ritual date in the Hindu Calendar. Perhaps you will now understand why it is so important that the true Makar Sankranti (Winter Solstice) be observed on 21 December and not 14 January. > >  > > In the service of Truth, > >  > > RE Wilkinson > > - > Sunil Bhattacharjya > Robert E. Wilkinson > Monday, February 23, 2009 7:47 PM> Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter> > Dear Robert E. wilkinsonji,>  > Namaste,>  > The astrologers like AKK show concern at Makar Sankranti being observed about three weeks after the Winter Solstice but they never care to know what is the true meaning of the Makar Sankranti. Makar is the Makar rashi and Sankranti means the act of Sankraman or intrusion. So Makar Sankranti has to when the Sun enters the Makar Rashi. AKK and others never care to know why Makar Rashi is considered important. Shravana nakshatra is in the Makar rashi and this is Nakshatra ruled by Shri Hari. Shravana and Shruti has the same origin and Shruti is the Veda. Shravana is considered asthe Nakshatra of the Veda-Mata Saraswati. Before Abhijit Nakshatra, whose ruler is Brahmaa, moved away to become the Pole-star, Abhijit used to be a Nakshatra in the makar rashi. Appropriately Makar rashi was called the Brahma rashi in the Mahabharata.  Astrologically also the Makar Rashi is considered to be Rashi of Bharatvarsha. Thus the Makar Rashi has a unique position and> the Sun's entry into the Makar Rashi is an important event. Thus the Makar Sankranti has been and will be observed when the Sun enters the Makar Rashi. >  > Now it is also true that at one time the Winter Solstice did take place in the Makar Rashi for close to twenty two centuries. Even the latitudinal line at the point of the Winter Solstice had begun to be called as the Makar Rekha or the Tropic of Capricorn and this was appropriate only as long as the Wlnter Solstice occurred in the true Makar Rashi. So AKK and others think that Makar Sankranti and Winter Solstice are synonymous, forgetting that this can only happen only for close to twenty two centuries at a time and then wait for close to twenty four Millennia for that to reoccur. This is not to say that the Winter Solstice has no importance. The Tropical Calendar cannot do without the recognising the Winter Solstice. So the Tropical calendar has to learn to coexist with the Sidereal calendar. If those who want to observe the Winter Solstice as the Uttarayana day can observe it by all means. So let us have one additional festival> day on the Uttarayana day for those who want to onserve that rather than trying to annul the Makar Sankranti festival on the day when the Sun enters the Makar Rashi. >  > Regards,>  > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya>  >  >  > > --- On Mon, 2/23/09, Robert E. Wilkinson robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com> wrote:> > Robert E. Wilkinson robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>> Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter> sunil_bhattacharjya @, harimalla@rocketmai l.com> Cc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com, HinduCalendar, hinducivilization, waves-vedic, deenbc , jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com> Monday, February 23, 2009, 7:55 AM> > Namaste Hari Mala-ji,> Thank you for your response and the interesting information about the Makar. > > You bring up some interesting points in your letter which I feel the need to address in some detail. Let me begin with your request that those of us interested in Calendar Reform do this through a "concerted effort and if possible without changing any of the current practices and by not insisting on any particular method. It is your belief that this would be the best type of reform and acceptable to most". > > I am sure you have the best of intentions but your reply reveals exactly what is WRONG with the general attitude surrounding these important matters. Let me explain: > > First, it is virtually impossible to reform the calendar through a concerted effort given the wide gaps in understanding evidenced by these discussions on WAVES.  I agree with you that Dr. Arya is worthy of praise but, in my opinion, the scholarship of Krishen Kaul and Yeshu Rathenam does not rise to that level. Nevertheless you would prefer that we find an inclusive solution, without changing the current practices and acceptable to most. In other words you would be comfortable with some kind of compromise that doesn’t rock the boat. You are evidently unaware that when it comes to matters of Higher Truth and the cosmological absolutes that the Veda prescribes, compromise is simply not an option. What is required is credible LEADERSHIP that can expose the fallacious logic that so often passes for wisdom on this discussion group. What I find simply unbelievable is that many of the members of WAVES, people who supposedly have some knowledge of the Veda,> accept the pretentious posturing of AKK as gospel while virtually ignoring the authoritative statements of Veda masters like Sri Aurobindo, “Thea†Patrizia-Norelli- Bachelet and Swami Dayananda Saraswati.  No discrimination is made between the opinions of scholars and the direct knowledge of the sage. Naturally this results in an environment of mass confusion out of which true Calendar Reform cannot emerge. > > And what is the result? One of the esteemed leaders of a Vedic Temple in the US reads what I have written on calendar reform and, not being a Sanskritist or Jyotish scholar himself, he writes and asks AKK to set him straight out of his vast experience and knowledge. Here is someone who holds a position of trust and leadership in the religious community, responsible for the spiritual guidance of others, and he has no understanding of these important matters. I have written him on several occasions to ask for a fair hearing but, because of his faith in AKK, I have not received even the courtesy of a reply. So this man, having placed his confidence in a person of no realization and preferring not to rock the boat, returns to his flock and leads them on a path of Adharma rather than make a sincere effort to establish what is and is not the truth of the Veda. Now multiply this by tens of thousands and you have some idea of the problem we must overcome to> re-establish the Sanatana Dharma. > > So to answer your question, No! we cannot give in to compromise. No! we cannot continue the current Nirayana practices and Yes!, we must insist on the method laid down in the Veda if we are to have any meaningful reform of the Calendar. > > As for the names of the temples in India that have embraced the beginnings of Calendar reform, you will find them listed on my website http://www.vediccos mology.com. > > In the service of truth, > > RE Wilkinson > >  > > > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1967 - Release 2/23/2009 7:17 AM> > > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1967 - Release 2/23/2009 7:17 AM> >

[Guest guest]

Your name is Yaeshu Ruthenam and you claim to come from a Hindu priestly family. Did you by any chance adopt this name after convesion to Christianity?

 

You have not given any evidence from history to prove that the Mahabharata is a mythology. Mahabharata, being an epic, has stories to convey the Vedic truths to the masses through the medium of stories but it is also an Itihasa or History and the scholars can find the historical information from that. It seems that you do not know the meaning of Itihasa. You have only made false assertions that The mahabharata is all mythology and want to get away with that without giving any concrete reference. As you do not know the difference between assertion and concrete evidence it is not worth pursuing any discussion with you.

 

The festival on December 25, in Constantine's own religion prior to his adopting Christianity for political reasons, was to celebrate the birth of the Sun on the day following the Winter Solstice on December 24 of that year. He made it compulsory to observe that day as the Christmas day in order to glorify Jesus Christ, even though Jesus Christ was not born on December. So you are not aware of the importance given to Winter Solstice in the West in the ancient times.

 

 

 

 

 

--- On Fri, 2/27/09, yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 wrote:

yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Mattersunil_bhattacharjyaDate: Friday, February 27, 2009, 11:42 PM

 

 

I too come from a Hindu priestly class. But I am an egalitarian. I have already given enough evidences from history to prove the Mahabharata is a mythology. About your question about Christmas, I am to state the following:

 

While gods and goddesses of legends and mythology are assumed to be real, how can you call historic and real god Jesus a myth? December 25 was celebrated as the birthday of Jesus by his family, disciples and the first Church -- the Jerusalem Church. December 25 was observed the birthday of Jesus in all the churches in Asia Minor. It was only later Christianity was taken to the West by Paul. The West was totally hostile to Christianity which spread the message of love, peace and kindness. The early Christians were persecuted in Rome. Several thousands of Christians were killed by the Roman Emperors.

But in 312 when Emperor Constantine was fighting in Gaul, he had to face a powerful army. His travel-weary soldiers were not having courage and strength to meet the challenge of a far larger force ranging back from the city walls from a bend in the Tiber. Fear gripped the Emperor. It was at that time he saw a great light in the sky in the form of a cross, bearing the inscription Hoc signo vinces (In this sign you will conquer). In the battle Constantine won a miraculous victory. Later Constantine became a Christian. Christianity – the persecuted

and hated religion --- became the official religion of Rome. December 25 was officially proclaimed the birth date of Jesus after ascertaining from the early church in Jerusalem. But in Rome it coincided with the pagan festival of Solinvictus. That is why this confusion arose. Since Christianity encourages free thought and criticism, unlike Hinduism and Islam, this coincidence of date has been fully exploited by atheists and secular humanists. They even deny the holocaust which happened in the 20th. Century. Will they spare Christmas of the First century?

 

Long before we heard about Moscow, New Delhi, London, Washington and Beijing, King David had founded Jerusalem as capital of Israel. But even today, in the 21st century, Jerusalem is still in the news. Bethlehem where Jesus was born is a hot spot today.. The future of the world will be decided in Jerusalem. Whether it is Putin or Obama, the fate of the world hinges on the decision the world powers will be making on Jerusalem. These events were predicted by Jesus 2000 years ago, and they are happening today, including the economic crises and the nations of the world converging on Jerusalem before the launch of III World War. So Jesus is not a myth but a living God, according to Christians. Let us see how world events unfold according to the prediction of Jesus

[Guest guest]

Your name is Yaeshu Ruthenam and you claim to come from a Hindu priestly family.

Did you by any chance adopt this name after convesion to Christianity? 

 

You have not given any evidence from history to prove that the Mahabharata is a

mythology. Mahabharata, being an epic, has stories to convey the Vedic truths

to the masses through the medium of stories but it is also an Itihasa or

History and the scholars can find the historical information from that. It

seems that you do not know the meaning of Itihasa. You have only made false

assertions that The mahabharata is all mythology and want to get away with that

without giving any concrete reference. As you do not know the difference between

assertion and concrete evidence it is not worth pursuing any discussion with

you.

 

The festival on December 25, in Constantine's own religion prior to his

adopting Christianity for political reasons,  was to celebrate the birth of the

Sun on the day following the Winter Solstice on December 24 of that year.  He

made it compulsory to observe that day as the Christmas day in order to glorify

Jesus Christ, even though Jesus Christ was not born on December. So you are not

aware of the importance given to Winter Solstice in the West in the ancient

times.

 

 

 

 

 

 

--- On Fri, 2/27/09, yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 wrote:

 

yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004

Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

sunil_bhattacharjya

Friday, February 27, 2009, 11:42 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

I too come from a Hindu priestly class. But I am an egalitarian. I have already

given enough evidences from history to prove the Mahabharata is a mythology.

About your question about Christmas, I am to state the following:

 

 

While gods and goddesses of legends and mythology are assumed to be real, how

can you call historic and real god Jesus a myth? December 25 was celebrated as

the birthday of Jesus by his family, disciples and the first Church -- the

Jerusalem Church.  December 25 was observed the birthday of Jesus in all the

churches in Asia Minor. It was only later Christianity was taken to the West by

Paul. The West was totally hostile to Christianity which spread the message of

love, peace and kindness. The early Christians were persecuted in Rome. Several

thousands of Christians were killed by the Roman Emperors. But in 312 when

Emperor Constantine was fighting in Gaul, he had to face a powerful army. His

travel-weary soldiers were not having courage and strength to meet the challenge

of a far larger force ranging back from the city walls from a bend in the Tiber.

Fear gripped the Emperor. It was at that time he saw a great light in the sky in

the form of a cross,

bearing the inscription Hoc signo vinces (In this sign you will conquer).  In

the battle Constantine won a miraculous victory. Later Constantine became a

Christian.  Christianity – the persecuted and hated religion --- became the

official religion of Rome. December 25 was officially proclaimed the birth date

of Jesus after ascertaining from the early church in Jerusalem.  But in Rome it

coincided with the pagan festival of Solinvictus. That is why this confusion

arose. Since Christianity encourages free thought and criticism, unlike Hinduism

and Islam, this coincidence of date has been fully exploited by atheists and

secular humanists. They even deny the holocaust which happened in the 20th.

Century. Will they spare Christmas of the First century?

 

Long before we heard about Moscow, New Delhi, London, Washington and Beijing,

King David had founded Jerusalem as capital of Israel. But even today, in the

21st century, Jerusalem is still in the news. Bethlehem where Jesus was born is

a hot spot today.. The future of the world will be decided in Jerusalem. Whether

it is Putin or Obama, the fate of the world hinges on the decision the world

powers will be  making  on Jerusalem. These events were predicted by Jesus

2000 years ago, and they are happening today, including the economic crises and

the nations of the world converging on Jerusalem before the launch of III World

War. So Jesus is not a myth but a living God, according to Christians. Let us

see how world events unfold according to the prediction of Jesus.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya

yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004

Friday, February 27, 2009 2:35:35 PM

Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

 

 

 

 

 

 

Namaste Ruthenamji,

 

Please give supporting data with concrete references and not just your

imaginative assertions, which have no value at all. I am a Hindu. Can you please

let know your religious affiliation too. However if you have any reservation in

telling that please let me know  and also let me know how much you know about

your own scriptures, before dabbling in others'.

 

In your last letter you were talking vehemently about Winter Solstice. In that

connection I asked to find out why December 25 was chosen as the Christmas day.

Now you seem to be evading that completely. What type of scholarship is this?

Reputed western scholars do not do like this.

 

--- On Fri, 2/27/09, yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 wrote:

 

yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004

Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

sunil_bhattacharjya, waves-vedic , " Robert E.

Wilkinson " <robtw

Cc: vedicscience, atlantavedictemple, deenbc,

jyotirved, harimalla, robtw,

,

Friday, February 27, 2009, 12:20 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

Namaste Bhattacharjyaji

 

 

...

 Although tradition holds that an ancient sage called Vyasa wrote the

Mahabharata, it was almost certainly composed by a number of different poets and

then collected into a single work sometime between 300 B.C. and A.D. 350. The

epic reached its present form about 200 years later. It contains nearly 100,000

verses and is divided into 18 sections called parvans. It consists of many

legends and tales revolving around the conflicts between two branches of a

mythical family. The stories involve deities, demigods, and heroes. Some people

foolishly argue that these legends contain elements of cosmology, philosophy,

and religious doctrine Cosmology is a set of ideas about the origin, history,

and structure of the universe, and the imaginary claim of Aurobindo and others

borders on insanity. They foolishly claim without any scientific evidence that

the Mahabharata belongs to the Dvapar Yuga.  Cosmology proves that the Ramayana

is much older than the

Mahabharata. It does not go beyond the Vindhyas. However, in the case of the

Mahabharata, the whole of India was known and the rulers from the south also

came to participate in the Mahabharata war. Paninini mentions Vasudeve, Arjuna

and Yudhisthira. The Pandavas are not known to the Brhamanas. It is clear from

these facts that Vyasa alone did not write the Mahaabharata. It is also quite

evident from these facts that the Mahabharata is based on mythology and its

heroes and heroines are not historical figures.

 

 

A section of the epic called the Bhagavad Gita is the most important religious

text of Hinduism. But it was introduced at a later stage by the Gupta rulers to

thwart the growing tide of Buddhism. It was interwoven by borrowing ideas from

Buddhism and Christianity to give the Mahabharata the image of a religious text.

There were Greek satrapies in India before Kanishka came to power. There were

Indian ambassadors in the courts of Roman Emperors Augustus, Trajan, Hadrian,

Constantine , Julian and Justinian. There was a flourishing Indian population

permanently settled in Alexandria . The first Gupta ruler, Chandra Gupta I came

to power in 319 A.D. But 300 years before the Guptas came to power, St.Thomas

was in the court of Gondopharnes, and from the northwest, Thomas spread the

message of Jesus to many in the northern region and finally came to Mylapore and

Kerala. Although, the Mahabharata is a war literature, the religious part in the

epic was later

appended by the Gupta kings by heavily borrowing from Christianity and

Buddhism.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya

waves-vedic

Cc: yeshu2004; vedicscience;

atlantavedictemple; deenbc; jyotirved;

harimalla; robtw; ;

 

Thursday, February 26, 2009 10:00:59 AM

[WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry Ruthenamji,

 

There is a typo..

 

Please read the sentence " Hindus believe in one God but respecting the superiors

are looked down upon by them. " as " Hindus believe in one God but respecting the

superiors are not looked down upon by them. "

 

Regards,

 

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

 

--- On Wed, 2/25/09, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @> wrote:

 

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @>

Re: Fw: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

waves-vedic

Cc: yeshu2004 , vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, atlantavedictemple@

gmail.com, deenbc , jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com, harimalla@rocketmai l.com,

robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com, , ancient_indian_ astrology@

. com

Wednesday, February 25, 2009, 8:09 PM

 

 

 

 

Dear Shri Ruthenamji,

 

You wrote :

 

Quote

 

The Veda, the Mahabharata war and all Sanskrit literature were brought to light

by European scholars. It is cnfirmed that the Mahabharata war was a sheer myth.

 

Unquote

 

I know that European scholars translated the Veda and the Epics into

English  as they valued these and they wanted their own people to read them

and that was a favour to themselves.  Indians had these in Sanskrit as well as

in their vernacular languages.

1)

Do you know that till the  year 1882 the King James version of the Bible gave

the year of creation as 4004 BCE, whereas the Indian texts, which you are

condemning without any substantiation, gave the age of the earth as several

billion years, which is the same as what the modern science says.?

2)

Do you know yourself as to why and from when the Christmas began to be

celebrated on  December 25 when Jesus Christ himself was born on an

earlier month  and his year of birth is also on 4 BCE? You should know it

first before you say anything about the Winter Solstice.

 

Can you substantiate your statement that the Mahabharata war was a myth and that

no such war took place at all? The Indians know how to interpret their ancient

texts. The Puranas and Epics are historical texts called Itihasas, interspersed

with stories and anecdotes in order to give out the Vedic truths to the

masses, through them. 

 

You also said :

 

Quote

 

Similarly, the Vedas written by primitive people and like all primitive

societies they pray to god for food, health and victory in the war.

 

Unquote

 

The gods in Hinduism, Buddhism (like Tara, amd Manjushri) and Jainism are like

the angels of the Semitic religion. Hindus believe that they are superior beings

and they are also created by God and that they are at a higher evolutionary step

than we are. The Quran also did not say that one should not seek favour from

the angels. Even prophet Muhammad was complaining to the Archangel Gabriel

about the latter's coming late... to him. Hindus believe in one God but

respecting the superiors are looked down upon by them. May be you do not know

how to respect your superiors. 

 

The Vedas cannot be understood by everybody and you are one of them. However if

you wish to learn these then you have to go to a guru with due respect and he

will teach you provided he finds you worthy of that.

 

As regards  Wilkinsonji' s mail I have replied to that in a separate mail.. 

 

Regards,

 

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

 

--- On Wed, 2/25/09, yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 > wrote:

 

yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 >

Fw: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

sunil_bhattacharjya @, waves04@ .com

Cc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, " atlanta vedic " <atlantavedictemple@

gmail.com>, " hinc liz " <hinducivilization>, deenbc (AT) hotmail (DOT)

com, harimalla@rocketmai l.com

Wednesday, February 25, 2009, 6:38 PM

 

----- Forwarded Message ----

yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 >

Robert E... Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>

Thursday, February 26, 2009 8:02:06 AM

Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

 

" \the March Equinox - Cosmic Dawn; the June Solstice - Cosmic Midnight; the

September Equinox - Cosmic Sunset; and last but best of all, the December

Solstice - Cosmic Midday or Uttarayana, the highest position of the Sun whereby

as a single Ray (the lost Sun hidden by Vritra) it descends to the Earth casting

no shadows " It is all nonsense that you are writing. The Veda, the Mahabharata

war and all Sanskrit literature were brought to light by European scholars. It

is cnfirmed that the Mahabharata war was a sheer myth. Then how can you try to

fix the date? Similarly, the Vedas written by primitive people and like all

primitive societies they pray to god for food, health and victory in the war. It

is sheer madness to claim philosophy and science in the primittive works.

 

Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>

sunil_bhattacharjya @; waves-vedic

Cc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com; atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com;

hinducivilization; deenbc ; jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com;

harimalla@rocketmai l.com

Wednesday, February 25, 2009 9:01:08 PM

Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

 



 

Namaste Sunil K. Bhattacharj- ji

 

Thank you for your reply. If you would be so kind, please provide me with the

exact citation where Sri Aurobindo discusses the date of the Mahabharata war.

 

 

The root of your error is plainly evident. When you write that, “…for nearly

twenty two  centuries the Uttarayana did take place in the Makar Rashi. but we

have to live in the present situation when the Uttarayana does not occur in the

Makar Rashi†, you are basing your conclusions on the Nirayana Sidereal system

of calendar measure with its irregular Constellations and shifting ayanamsha.

This is not only unreliable and confusing but worst of all it is un-Vedic. It

directly contradicts the verses in the Rig Veda that describe  “One wheel of

three-hundred and sixty spokes, firmly riveted, that shake not in the least.â€

This ‘One Wheel’ is the eternal and unchanging Tropical zodiac or Sayana

system used by the Rishis to precisely measure the Earth in its yearly passage

around the ecliptic as well as a corresponding movement in the individual. The

errors of the Nirayana system, to which you evidently , arose with the

hegemony of

scientific relativism into the realm of the sacred when the astronomer usurped

the role of the sage and seer and proclaimed objective astronomical measurement

to be the final authority in calendar matters.

   

All that you have written to support your contention that there is no meaningful

connection between Makar Sankranti, the Capricorn Solstice and Uttarayana, the

northward journey of Sun is, in the final analysis, a direct contradiction of

the Dharma. Open your mind and listen to the words of the world’s leading Seer

and Vedic Cosmologist on these important matters:

 

“…We speak glibly of a SANTANA Dharma, the 'eternal' Law. But what sort of

eternal law, and consequent stability, can a shifting calendar provide the Hindu

Samaj? The FLOATING AYANAMSHAS in vogue today, which bear no sanction in the

Veda, are anything but stable and constant. Each second that passes of our Earth

time causes that distant sidereal point light-years away to change position,

thereby making that Ayanamsha with each passing second inoperable and

inapplicable for any ritual. If the pundit is sincere to his trade, he must know

this. He must know that yesterday's Ayanamsha cannot be held today as valid

because IT HAS SHIFTED IN THE HEAVENS, perhaps slightly, but shifted it has.

Today it is not where it was yesterday. And if we add to this the complete

impossibility to determine just where and what that Ayanamsha might be, then we

understand why there is total confusion among the ranks of the pundits. And

Hinduism suffers an increasing

deterioration accordingly, with each ritual that propagates this illusion.

 

  Absolutism of the eternal Dharma lies within our grasp if we take the same

Journey the Veda pre-scribes, poised on the immutable four Cardinal Points: the

March Equinox - Cosmic Dawn; the June Solstice - Cosmic Midnight; the September

Equinox - Cosmic Sunset; and last but best of all, the December Solstice -

Cosmic Midday or Uttarayana, the highest position of the Sun whereby as a single

Ray (the lost Sun hidden by Vritra) it descends to the Earth casting no shadows.

And therefore it is known as the period of Victory for the Aryan Warrior; or, in

the larger cycles of time, as the Golden Age, the Satya Yuga.

    We need to understand the 'seed' nature of the Makar Sankranti and how it

can be said that this is an experience of both the Earth, the individual and of

the collective Hindu Samaj, all simultaneously on that very special Solstice..

This is understood when we realise that Time itself is compressed to a seed at

the De-cember Solstice. The 'shortest day of the year' has no other factual

significance for inhabitants of our special planet than this: compression to a

point, compaction to a seed. The light of the Sun, those divine Cows/Rays, is

compressed to this point-experience of Time when its measure reaches the

extremes of itself [the Solstice or SHORTEST day of the year]. And then when the

[Makar] Sankranti is observed with the right 'combination' - the right harmony

of the Earth to the Ecliptic - the entire Hindu Samaj connects itself through

this 'seed-point' to the replenishing Source from which it originally sprang.

Today as in aeons gone by,

it can drink once again of the waters the Goddess Mahasaraswati benignly

releases abroad upon the world. “Thea†Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet, THE MAKAR

SANKRANTI - Winter Solstice  

 

RE Wilkinson

 

-

Sunil Bhattacharjya

waves-vedic

Cc: robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com ; vedicscience@ rediffmail. com ; atlantavedictemple@

gmail.com ; hinducivilization ; deenbc ;

jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com ; harimalla@rocketmai l.com

Tuesday, February 24, 2009 8:54 PM

Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

 

Namaste R...E.Wilkinsonji,

 

Namaste,

 

You wrote as follows:

 

Quote

 

What you write is very interesting indeed but it fails to grasp the underlying

truth of the Makar Sankranti and the Capricorn Gateway. Because of this, your

conclusions regarding the Makar Sankranti and Winter Solstice, the Sayana and

Nirayana systems are completely incorrect.

 

unquote

 

On the contrary you have not understood the difference between the significance

of Makara Sankranti and that of Uttarayana. You have referred to Sri Aurobindo.

Starting from the day when Lele taught him how to meditate he did advance to

high level of thought. But all that Sri Aurobindo said are not to be taken

blindly. He said that the Mahabharata war took place in 1190 BCE and we now know

that he was wrong from the archaeological evidence itself as the

river Saraswati dried up much before 1190 BCE and that at the time of the

Mahabharata war it was flowing and Balarama's going to the Saraswati is

mentioned in the Mahabharata. .

 

You have quoted from the Rig Veda. Agreed that Brahmanaspati (Brihaspati)  did

make the knowledge appear (or known) that the certain eternal worlds came into

being, which open their doors with moons ( bright and dark fortnights) and

autumns (seasons) and that these (the eternal worlds) move effortlessly from one

to another, but it did not link up the Makar Rashi with any season. In the

Chapter 8 of the Bhagavad Gita Lord Krishna describes the path by which the

yogi, who has known the Brahman departs. Lord Krishna also describes the path by

which the yogi, who is disciplined but has not realised Brahman, goes. Other

sources such as the Chandogya Upanishad, Baudhayana smriti, Shiva gita and

 Kurma purana give details of these aspects but nowhere they have linked up

Makar Sankranti with Uttarayana. Different ancient texts, composed at different

time periods,  mention  a particular season occurring at different Nakshatras

which shows that the seasons

are not tied to the Nakshatras and as the Winter season starts with the

Uttarayana so also the Uttarayana should also be not linked to any Nakshatra or

Rashi. Makar Sankramana is about Sankramana of the Makar rashi.  As I said

before that for nearly twenty two  centuries the Uttarayana did take place in

the Makar Rashi. but we have to live in the present situation when the

Uttarayana does not occur in the Makar Rashi. If you have any doubt abiout the

real meaning of rashi, please go to my last mail.

 

Let the truth prevail. It is not late for the astrologers, who did not know

this, to correct themselves and recognise that Winter Solstice need not be

linked up with the Makar Sankramana.

 

Regards,

 

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

 

 

 

--- On Tue, 2/24/09, Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com> wrote:

 

Robert E... Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>

Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

sunil_bhattacharjya @

Cc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com, HinduCalendar@

. com, hinducivilization, waves-vedic@ .

com, deenbc , jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com, harimalla@rocketmai l.com

Tuesday, February 24, 2009, 9:16 AM

 



 

Namaste Sunil K. Bhattacharjya- ji

 

What you write is very interesting indeed but it fails to grasp the underlying

truth of the Makar Sankranti and the Capricorn Gateway. Because of this, your

conclusions regarding the Makar Sankranti and Winter Solstice, the Sayana and

Nirayana systems are completely incorrect. These are matters of Veda, obtained

through Shruti as you mentioned. But in order to secure a higher understanding

of these important matters we must go back to the Vedic scriptures themselves.

 

As a matter of curiosity, How many of you on this study group have even read Sri

Aurobindo’s  “Secret of the Veda� If this group is truly about Vedic

Studies, we must get serious about it and go directly to the source.  That

said, there is no better authority on the Veda than Sri Aurobindo. He has

plainly stated that the Vedas are the oldest extant spiritual scriptures on

earth. Its name, “Veda†-  the Knowledge, is the received name for the

highest spiritual truth of which the human mind is capable. Over the millennia

however this high knowledge became lost or corrupted. “As the Veda had passed

from the sage to the priest, wrote Sri Aurobindo, so now it began to pass from

the hands of the priest into the hands of the scholar. And in that keeping it

suffered the last mutilation of its sense and the last diminution of its true

dignity and sanctity.†What we are seeing today on WAVES is a continuation of

that mutilation and diminution…

not through scholars, but through self-important pseudo-scholars like Yeshu

Rathenam who are given free rein to post comments that the Veda are a

“worthless set of books. This has to stop!

 

 

 

Among the many secrets of the Veda given by the ancient sages, are precise

instructions, yogic techniques, the goal of which is to help us ascend beyond

our mortal mentality to the luminous truth of our being on the spiritual plane

of our existence. The Rishis are quite plain spoken on this account. The secret

of secrets, the greatest mystery of the Veda is a supremely enlightened state

“Swar†which results from a perfect alignment of the individual with the

twelve months of the sacrificial year.  

 

 

 

" Certain eternal worlds are these which have come into being, their doors are

shut to you (or opened) by the months and the years. Without effort one world

moves in the other, and it is these that Brihaspati has made manifest to

knowledge " Rig Veda   (II.24.5)

 

 

 

These secret eternal worlds have been closed to us by our misperception of the

movement of time. The months and the years, therefore have to be re-discovered

and created in us by that same power. This, says the Rishi, is the mightiest

work, the fairest achievement and it hinges on the conquest of time.

 

 

 

“The Vedic idea was that the subconscient darkness and the ordinary life of

ignorance held concealed in it all that belongs to the divine life and that

these secret riches must be recovered first by destroying the impenitent powers

of ignorance and then by possessing the lower life subjected to the higher.â€

Sri Aurobindo, Secret of the Veda (p. 238)

 

 

 

What we are interested in writes Sri Aurobindo, is the process by which one is

able to release the soul’s light and come to know and live the higher stages

of the journey and in so doing, developing ‘the unity of the nine-rayed and

the ten-rayed seers who by the utter thought of the soul, by the word that

illumines broke open the fortified pens ...'  This then is the Vedic sacrifice:

‘ a journey; indeed the sacrifice itself is described as travelling, as

journeying to a divine goal; and the journey and the sacrifice are continually

spoken of as a battle against the dark powers.' Ibid, (p. 183)

 

 

 

 '. ... . the possession of our complete divine consciousness delivered from

all falsehood by the free descent of the truth, gives us the secure possession

of the world of Swar and the enjoyment of mental and physical being lifted into

the godhead above the darkness, falsehood and death by the in-streaming of our

divine elements. This victory is won in twelve periods of the upward journey,

represented by the revolution of the twelve months of the sacrificial year, the

periods corresponding to the successive dawns of a wider and wider truth, until

the tenth secures the victory. What may be the precise significance of the nine

rays and the ten, is a more difficult question which we are not yet in a

position to solve*. But the light we have already is sufficient to illuminate

all the main imagery of the Rig Veda.' Ibid (p. 182)

 

 

 

In his Secret of the Veda, Sri Aurobindo described these worlds of Swar as

“Godheads†but it was not until the cosmological discoveries made by

“Thea†Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet that these symbols, Vedic “godheads†of

“the nine rays and the ten†were revealed to be synonymous with and

referring to the 9th and 10th months of the cosmic year: Sagittarius and

Capricorn. And, according to the Rishi, it is in the Tenth Month (CAPRICORN)

that the final Victory is achieved. It is for this reason and none other that

the Makar Sankranti, the Capricorn Gateway, is the most important ritual date in

the Hindu Calendar. Perhaps you will now understand why it is so important that

the true Makar Sankranti (Winter Solstice) be observed on 21 December and not 14

January.

 

 

 

In the service of Truth,

 

 

 

RE Wilkinson

 

-

Sunil Bhattacharjya

Robert E. Wilkinson

Monday, February 23, 2009 7:47 PM

Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

 

Dear Robert E. wilkinsonji,

 

Namaste,

 

The astrologers like AKK show concern at Makar Sankranti being observed about

three weeks after the Winter Solstice but they never care to know what is the

true meaning of the Makar Sankranti. Makar is the Makar rashi and Sankranti

means the act of Sankraman or intrusion. So Makar Sankranti has to when the Sun

enters the Makar Rashi. AKK and others never care to know why Makar Rashi is

considered important. Shravana nakshatra is in the Makar rashi and this is

Nakshatra ruled by Shri Hari. Shravana and Shruti has the same origin and Shruti

is the Veda. Shravana is considered asthe Nakshatra of the Veda-Mata Saraswati.

Before Abhijit Nakshatra, whose ruler is Brahmaa, moved away to become the

Pole-star, Abhijit used to be a Nakshatra in the makar rashi. Appropriately

Makar rashi was called the Brahma rashi in the Mahabharata.  Astrologically

also the Makar Rashi is considered to be Rashi of Bharatvarsha. Thus the Makar

Rashi has a unique position and

the Sun's entry into the Makar Rashi is an important event. Thus the Makar

Sankranti has been and will be observed when the Sun enters the Makar Rashi.

 

Now it is also true that at one time the Winter Solstice did take place in

the Makar Rashi  for close to twenty two centuries. Even the latitudinal line

at the point of the Winter Solstice had begun to be called as the Makar Rekha

or the Tropic of Capricorn and this was appropriate only as long as the Wlnter

Solstice occurred in the true Makar Rashi. So AKK and others think that Makar

Sankranti and Winter Solstice are synonymous, forgetting that this can only

happen only for close to twenty two centuries at a time and then wait for close

to twenty four Millennia for that to reoccur. This is not to say that

the Winter Solstice has no importance. The Tropical Calendar cannot do

without the recognising the Winter Solstice. So the Tropical calendar has to

learn to coexist with the Sidereal calendar. If those who want to observe the

Winter Solstice as the Uttarayana day can observe it by all means. So let us

have one additional festival

day on the Uttarayana day for those who want to onserve that rather than

trying to annul the Makar Sankranti festival on the day when the Sun enters the

Makar Rashi.

 

Regards,

 

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

 

 

 

 

--- On Mon, 2/23/09, Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com> wrote:

 

Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>

Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

sunil_bhattacharjya @, harimalla@rocketmai l.com

Cc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com, HinduCalendar@

. com, hinducivilization, waves-vedic@ .

com, deenbc , jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com

Monday, February 23, 2009, 7:55 AM

 

Namaste Hari Mala-ji,

Thank you for your response and the interesting information about the Makar.

 

You bring up some interesting points in your letter which I feel the need to

address in some detail. Let me begin with your request that those of us

interested in Calendar Reform do this through a " concerted effort and if

possible without changing any of the current practices and by not insisting on

any particular method. It is your belief that this would be the best type of

reform and acceptable to most " .

 

I am sure you have the best of intentions but your reply reveals exactly what is

WRONG with the general attitude surrounding these important matters. Let me

explain:

 

First, it is virtually impossible to reform the calendar through a concerted

effort given the wide gaps in understanding evidenced by these discussions on

WAVES.  I agree with you that Dr. Arya is worthy of praise but, in my opinion,

the scholarship of Krishen Kaul and Yeshu Rathenam does not rise to that level.

Nevertheless you would prefer that we find an inclusive solution, without

changing the current practices and acceptable to most. In other words you would

be comfortable with some kind of compromise that doesn’t rock the boat. You

are evidently unaware that when it comes to matters of Higher Truth and the

cosmological absolutes that the Veda prescribes, compromise is simply not an

option. What is required is credible LEADERSHIP that can expose the fallacious

logic that so often passes for wisdom on this discussion group. What I find

simply unbelievable is that many of the members of WAVES, people who supposedly

have some knowledge of the Veda,

accept the pretentious posturing of AKK as gospel while virtually ignoring the

authoritative statements of Veda masters like Sri Aurobindo, “Theaâ€

Patrizia-Norelli- Bachelet and Swami Dayananda Saraswati.  No discrimination is

made between the opinions of scholars and the direct knowledge of the sage.

Naturally this results in an environment of mass confusion out of which true

Calendar Reform cannot emerge.

 

And what is the result? One of the esteemed leaders of a Vedic Temple in the US

reads what I have written on calendar reform and, not being a Sanskritist or

Jyotish scholar himself, he writes and asks AKK to set him straight out of his

vast experience and knowledge. Here is someone who holds a position of trust and

leadership in the religious community, responsible for the spiritual guidance of

others, and he has no understanding of these important matters. I have written

him on several occasions to ask for a fair hearing but, because of his faith in

AKK, I have not received even the courtesy of a reply. So this man, having

placed his confidence in a person of no realization and preferring not to

rock the boat, returns to his flock and leads them on a path of Adharma rather

than make a sincere effort to establish what is and is not the truth of the

Veda. Now multiply this by tens of thousands and you have some idea of the

problem we must overcome to

re-establish the Sanatana Dharma. 

 

So to answer your question, No! we cannot give in to compromise. No! we cannot

continue the current Nirayana practices and Yes!, we must insist on the method

laid down in the Veda if we are to have any meaningful reform of the Calendar.

 

As for the names of the temples in India that have embraced the beginnings of

Calendar reform, you will find them listed on my website http://www.vediccos

mology.com.

 

In the service of truth,

 

RE Wilkinson

 

 

 

 

Checked by AVG.

Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1967 - Release 2/23/2009 7:17

AM

 

 

Checked by AVG.

Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1967 - Release 2/23/2009 7:17

AM

 

 

[Guest guest]

Does someone recollect if all this happened twelve years ago as well,

as claimed? Maybe it is the acceleration of Jupiter this time that is

stirring up the pond and bringing all this up in Jyotish-land!

 

RR

 

, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:

>

> Your name is Yaeshu Ruthenam and you claim to come from a Hindu

priestly family. Did you by any chance adopt this name

after convesion to Christianity? 

>  

> You have not given any evidence from history to prove that the

Mahabharata is a mythology. Mahabharata, being an epic, has stories

to convey the Vedic truths to the masses through the medium of

stories but it is also an Itihasa or History and the scholars can

find the historical information from that. It seems that you do not

know the meaning of Itihasa. You have only made false assertions that

The mahabharata is all mythology and want to get away with that

without giving any concrete reference. As you do not know the

difference between assertion and concrete evidence it is not worth

pursuing any discussion with you.

>  

> The festival on December 25, in Constantine's own religion prior

to his adopting Christianity for political reasons,  was to

celebrate the birth of the Sun on the day following the Winter

Solstice on December 24 of that year.  He made it compulsory to

observe that day as the Christmas day in order to glorify Jesus

Christ, even though Jesus Christ was not born on December. So you

are not aware of the importance given to Winter Solstice in the West

in the ancient times.

>  

>  

>  

>  

>  

>

> --- On Fri, 2/27/09, yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 wrote:

>

> yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004

> Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

> sunil_bhattacharjya

> Friday, February 27, 2009, 11:42 PM

I too come from a Hindu priestly class. But I am an egalitarian. I

have already given enough evidences from history to prove the

Mahabharata is a mythology. About your question about Christmas, I am

to state the following:

>

>

> While gods and goddesses of legends and mythology are assumed to be

real, how can you call historic and real god Jesus a myth? December

25 was celebrated as the birthday of Jesus by his family, disciples

and the first Church -- the Jerusalem Church.  December 25 was

observed the birthday of Jesus in all the churches in Asia Minor. It

was only later Christianity was taken to the West by Paul. The West

was totally hostile to Christianity which spread the message of love,

peace and kindness. The early Christians were persecuted in Rome.

Several thousands of Christians were killed by the Roman Emperors.

But in 312 when Emperor Constantine was fighting in Gaul, he had to

face a powerful army. His travel-weary soldiers were not having

courage and strength to meet the challenge of a far larger force

ranging back from the city walls from a bend in the Tiber. Fear

gripped the Emperor. It was at that time he saw a great light in the

sky in the form of a cross,

> bearing the inscription Hoc signo vinces (In this sign you will

conquer).  In the battle Constantine won a miraculous victory. Later

Constantine became a Christian.  Christianity †" the persecuted and

hated religion --- became the official religion of Rome. December 25

was officially proclaimed the birth date of Jesus after ascertaining

from the early church in Jerusalem.  But in Rome it coincided with

the pagan festival of Solinvictus. That is why this confusion arose.

Since Christianity encourages free thought and criticism, unlike

Hinduism and Islam, this coincidence of date has been fully exploited

by atheists and secular humanists. They even deny the holocaust which

happened in the 20th. Century. Will they spare Christmas of the First

century?

>  

> Long before we heard about Moscow, New Delhi, London, Washington

and Beijing, King David had founded Jerusalem as capital of Israel.

But even today, in the 21st century, Jerusalem is still in the news.

Bethlehem where Jesus was born is a hot spot today.. The future of

the world will be decided in Jerusalem. Whether it is Putin or Obama,

the fate of the world hinges on the decision the world powers will be

 making  on Jerusalem. These events were predicted by Jesus 2000

years ago, and they are happening today, including the economic

crises and the nations of the world converging on Jerusalem before

the launch of III World War. So Jesus is not a myth but a living God,

according to Christians. Let us see how world events unfold according

to the prediction of Jesus.

>  

>  

>

>

>

>

> Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya

> yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004

> Friday, February 27, 2009 2:35:35 PM

> Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

Namaste Ruthenamji,

>  

> Please give supporting data with concrete references and not just

your imaginative assertions, which have no value at all. I am a

Hindu. Can you please let know your religious affiliation too.

However if you have any reservation in telling that please let me

know  and also let me know how much you know about your own

scriptures, before dabbling in others'.

>  

> In your last letter you were talking vehemently about Winter

Solstice. In that connection I asked to find out why December 25 was

chosen as the Christmas day. Now you seem to be evading that

completely. What type of scholarship is this? Reputed western

scholars do not do like this.

>

> --- On Fri, 2/27/09, yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 wrote:

>

> yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004

> Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

> sunil_bhattacharjya, waves-vedic , " Robert

E. Wilkinson " <robtw

> Cc: vedicscience, atlantavedictemple, deenbc,

jyotirved, harimalla, robtw,

,

> Friday, February 27, 2009, 12:20 AM

Namaste Bhattacharjyaji

>

>

> ..

>  Although tradition holds that an ancient sage called Vyasa wrote

the Mahabharata, it was almost certainly composed by a number of

different poets and then collected into a single work sometime

between 300 B.C. and A.D. 350. The epic reached its present form

about 200 years later. It contains nearly 100,000 verses and is

divided into 18 sections called parvans. It consists of many legends

and tales revolving around the conflicts between two branches of a

mythical family. The stories involve deities, demigods, and heroes.

Some people foolishly argue that these legends contain elements of

cosmology, philosophy, and religious doctrine Cosmology is a set of

ideas about the origin, history, and structure of the universe, and

the imaginary claim of Aurobindo and others borders on insanity. They

foolishly claim without any scientific evidence that the Mahabharata

belongs to the Dvapar Yuga.  Cosmology proves that the Ramayana is

much older than the

> Mahabharata. It does not go beyond the Vindhyas. However, in the

case of the Mahabharata, the whole of India was known and the rulers

from the south also came to participate in the Mahabharata war.

Paninini mentions Vasudeve, Arjuna and Yudhisthira. The Pandavas are

not known to the Brhamanas. It is clear from these facts that Vyasa

alone did not write the Mahaabharata. It is also quite evident from

these facts that the Mahabharata is based on mythology and its heroes

and heroines are not historical figures.

>  

>  

> A section of the epic called the Bhagavad Gita is the most

important religious text of Hinduism. But it was introduced at a

later stage by the Gupta rulers to thwart the growing tide of

Buddhism. It was interwoven by borrowing ideas from Buddhism and

Christianity to give the Mahabharata the image of a religious text.

There were Greek satrapies in India before Kanishka came to power.

There were Indian ambassadors in the courts of Roman Emperors

Augustus, Trajan, Hadrian, Constantine , Julian and Justinian. There

was a flourishing Indian population permanently settled in

Alexandria . The first Gupta ruler, Chandra Gupta I came to power in

319 A.D. But 300 years before the Guptas came to power, St.Thomas was

in the court of Gondopharnes, and from the northwest, Thomas spread

the message of Jesus to many in the northern region and finally came

to Mylapore and Kerala. Although, the Mahabharata is a war

literature, the religious part in the epic was later

> appended by the Gupta kings by heavily borrowing from Christianity

and Buddhism.

>  

>  

>

>

>

>

> Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya

> waves-vedic

> Cc: yeshu2004; vedicscience; atlantavedictemple;

deenbc; jyotirved; harimalla; robtw;

;

> Thursday, February 26, 2009 10:00:59 AM

> [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

>

>

>

>

>

Sorry Ruthenamji,

>  

> There is a typo..

>  

> Please read the sentence " Hindus believe in one God but respecting

the superiors are looked down upon by them. " as " Hindus believe in

one God but respecting the superiors are not looked down upon by

them. "

>  

> Regards,

>  

> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

>

> --- On Wed, 2/25/09, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya

@> wrote:

>

> Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @>

> Re: Fw: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important

Matter

> waves-vedic

> Cc: yeshu2004 , vedicscience@ rediffmail. com,

atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com, deenbc , jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT)

com, harimalla@rocketmai l.com, robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com, @

. com, ancient_indian_ astrology

> Wednesday, February 25, 2009, 8:09 PM

>

>

>

>

> Dear Shri Ruthenamji,

>  

> You wrote :

>  

> Quote

>  

> The Veda, the Mahabharata war and all Sanskrit literature were

brought to light by European scholars. It is cnfirmed that the

Mahabharata war was a sheer myth.

>  

> Unquote

>  

> I know that European scholars translated the Veda and the Epics

into English  as they valued these and they wanted their own people

to read them and that was a favour to themselves.  Indians had these

in Sanskrit as well as in their vernacular languages.

> 1)

> Do you know that till the  year 1882 the King James version of the

Bible gave the year of creation as 4004 BCE, whereas the Indian

texts, which you are condemning without any substantiation, gave the

age of the earth as several billion years, which is the same as what

the modern science says.?

> 2)

> Do you know yourself as to why and from when the Christmas began to

be celebrated on  December 25 when Jesus Christ himself was born

on an earlier month  and his year of birth is also on 4 BCE? You

should know it first before you say anything about the Winter

Solstice.

>  

> Can you substantiate your statement that the Mahabharata war was a

myth and that no such war took place at all? The Indians know how to

interpret their ancient texts. The Puranas and Epics are historical

texts called Itihasas, interspersed with stories and anecdotes in

order to give out the Vedic truths to the masses, through them. 

>  

> You also said :

>  

> Quote

>  

> Similarly, the Vedas written by primitive people and like all

primitive societies they pray to god for food, health and victory in

the war.

>  

> Unquote

>  

> The gods in Hinduism, Buddhism (like Tara, amd Manjushri) and

Jainism are like the angels of the Semitic religion. Hindus believe

that they are superior beings and they are also created by God and

that they are at a higher evolutionary step than we are. The Quran

also did not say that one should not seek favour from the angels.

Even prophet Muhammad was complaining to the Archangel Gabriel

about the latter's coming late... to him. Hindus believe in one God

but respecting the superiors are looked down upon by them. May be you

do not know how to respect your superiors. 

>  

> The Vedas cannot be understood by everybody and you are one of

them. However if you wish to learn these then you have to go to a

guru with due respect and he will teach you provided he finds you

worthy of that.

>  

> As regards  Wilkinsonji' s mail I have replied to that in a

separate mail.. 

>  

> Regards,

>  

> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

>

> --- On Wed, 2/25/09, yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 > wrote:

>

> yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 >

> Fw: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

> sunil_bhattacharjya @, waves04@ .com

> Cc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, " atlanta vedic "

<atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com>, " hinc liz " <hinducivilization@

. com>, deenbc (AT) hotmail (DOT) com, harimalla@rocketmai l.com

> Wednesday, February 25, 2009, 6:38 PM

>

> ----- Forwarded Message ----

> yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 >

> Robert E... Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>

> Thursday, February 26, 2009 8:02:06 AM

> Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

>

> " \the March Equinox - Cosmic Dawn; the June Solstice - Cosmic

Midnight; the September Equinox - Cosmic Sunset; and last but best of

all, the December Solstice - Cosmic Midday or Uttarayana, the highest

position of the Sun whereby as a single Ray (the lost Sun hidden by

Vritra) it descends to the Earth casting no shadows " It is all

nonsense that you are writing. The Veda, the Mahabharata war and all

Sanskrit literature were brought to light by European scholars. It is

cnfirmed that the Mahabharata war was a sheer myth. Then how can you

try to fix the date? Similarly, the Vedas written by primitive people

and like all primitive societies they pray to god for food, health

and victory in the war. It is sheer madness to claim philosophy and

science in the primittive works.

>

> Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>

> sunil_bhattacharjya @; waves-vedic

> Cc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com; atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com;

hinducivilization; deenbc ;

jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com; harimalla@rocketmai l.com

> Wednesday, February 25, 2009 9:01:08 PM

> Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

>

> 

>

> Namaste Sunil K. Bhattacharj- ji

>  

> Thank you for your reply. If you would be so kind, please provide

me with the exact citation where Sri Aurobindo discusses the date of

the Mahabharata war.

>  

>  

> The root of your error is plainly evident. When you write that,

“…for nearly twenty two  centuries the Uttarayana did take place

in the Makar Rashi. but we have to live in the present situation when

the Uttarayana does not occur in the Makar Rashi†, you are basing

your conclusions on the Nirayana Sidereal system of calendar measure

with its irregular Constellations and shifting ayanamsha. This is not

only unreliable and confusing but worst of all it is un-Vedic. It

directly contradicts the verses in the Rig Veda that describe 

“One wheel of three-hundred and sixty spokes, firmly riveted, that

shake not in the least.†This ‘One Wheel’ is the eternal and

unchanging Tropical zodiac or Sayana system used by the Rishis to

precisely measure the Earth in its yearly passage around the ecliptic

as well as a corresponding movement in the individual. The errors of

the Nirayana system, to which you evidently , arose with

the hegemony of

> scientific relativism into the realm of the sacred when the

astronomer usurped the role of the sage and seer and proclaimed

objective astronomical measurement to be the final authority in

calendar matters.

>    

> All that you have written to support your contention that there is

no meaningful connection between Makar Sankranti, the Capricorn

Solstice and Uttarayana, the northward journey of Sun is, in the

final analysis, a direct contradiction of the Dharma. Open your mind

and listen to the words of the world’s leading Seer and Vedic

Cosmologist on these important matters:

>  

> “…We speak glibly of a SANTANA Dharma, the 'eternal' Law. But

what sort of eternal law, and consequent stability, can a shifting

calendar provide the Hindu Samaj? The FLOATING AYANAMSHAS in vogue

today, which bear no sanction in the Veda, are anything but stable

and constant. Each second that passes of our Earth time causes that

distant sidereal point light-years away to change position, thereby

making that Ayanamsha with each passing second inoperable and

inapplicable for any ritual. If the pundit is sincere to his trade,

he must know this. He must know that yesterday's Ayanamsha cannot be

held today as valid because IT HAS SHIFTED IN THE HEAVENS, perhaps

slightly, but shifted it has. Today it is not where it was yesterday.

And if we add to this the complete impossibility to determine just

where and what that Ayanamsha might be, then we understand why there

is total confusion among the ranks of the pundits. And Hinduism

suffers an increasing

> deterioration accordingly, with each ritual that propagates this

illusion.

>  

>   Absolutism of the eternal Dharma lies within our grasp if we

take the same Journey the Veda pre-scribes, poised on the immutable

four Cardinal Points: the March Equinox - Cosmic Dawn; the June

Solstice - Cosmic Midnight; the September Equinox - Cosmic Sunset;

and last but best of all, the December Solstice - Cosmic Midday or

Uttarayana, the highest position of the Sun whereby as a single Ray

(the lost Sun hidden by Vritra) it descends to the Earth casting no

shadows. And therefore it is known as the period of Victory for the

Aryan Warrior; or, in the larger cycles of time, as the Golden Age,

the Satya Yuga.

>     We need to understand the 'seed' nature of the Makar

Sankranti and how it can be said that this is an experience of both

the Earth, the individual and of the collective Hindu Samaj, all

simultaneously on that very special Solstice.. This is understood

when we realise that Time itself is compressed to a seed at the De-

cember Solstice. The 'shortest day of the year' has no other factual

significance for inhabitants of our special planet than this:

compression to a point, compaction to a seed. The light of the Sun,

those divine Cows/Rays, is compressed to this point-experience of

Time when its measure reaches the extremes of itself [the Solstice or

SHORTEST day of the year]. And then when the [Makar] Sankranti is

observed with the right 'combination' - the right harmony of the

Earth to the Ecliptic - the entire Hindu Samaj connects itself

through this 'seed-point' to the replenishing Source from which it

originally sprang. Today as in aeons gone by,

> it can drink once again of the waters the Goddess Mahasaraswati

benignly releases abroad upon the world. “Thea†Patrizia Norelli-

Bachelet, THE MAKAR SANKRANTI - Winter Solstice  

>  

> RE Wilkinson

>

> -

> Sunil Bhattacharjya

> waves-vedic

> Cc: robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com ; vedicscience@ rediffmail. com ;

atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com ; hinducivilization ;

deenbc ; jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com ; harimalla@rocketmai l.com

> Tuesday, February 24, 2009 8:54 PM

> Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

>

> Namaste R...E.Wilkinsonji,

>  

> Namaste,

>  

> You wrote as follows:

>  

> Quote

>  

> What you write is very interesting indeed but it fails to grasp the

underlying truth of the Makar Sankranti and the Capricorn Gateway.

Because of this, your conclusions regarding the Makar Sankranti and

Winter Solstice, the Sayana and Nirayana systems are completely

incorrect.

>

> unquote

>  

> On the contrary you have not understood the difference between the

significance of Makara Sankranti and that of Uttarayana. You have

referred to Sri Aurobindo. Starting from the day when Lele taught

him how to meditate he did advance to high level of thought. But all

that Sri Aurobindo said are not to be taken blindly. He said that the

Mahabharata war took place in 1190 BCE and we now know that he was

wrong from the archaeological evidence itself as the river Saraswati

dried up much before 1190 BCE and that at the time of the Mahabharata

war it was flowing and Balarama's going to the Saraswati is

mentioned in the Mahabharata. .

>  

> You have quoted from the Rig Veda. Agreed that Brahmanaspati

(Brihaspati)  did make the knowledge appear (or known) that the

certain eternal worlds came into being, which open their doors with

moons ( bright and dark fortnights) and autumns (seasons) and that

these (the eternal worlds) move effortlessly from one to another,

but it did not link up the Makar Rashi with any season. In the

Chapter 8 of the Bhagavad Gita Lord Krishna describes the path by

which the yogi, who has known the Brahman departs. Lord Krishna also

describes the path by which the yogi, who is disciplined but has not

realised Brahman, goes. Other sources such as the Chandogya

Upanishad, Baudhayana smriti, Shiva gita and  Kurma purana give

details of these aspects but nowhere they have linked up Makar

Sankranti with Uttarayana. Different ancient texts, composed

at different time periods,  mention  a particular season occurring

at different Nakshatras which shows that the seasons

> are not tied to the Nakshatras and as the Winter season starts with

the Uttarayana so also the Uttarayana should also be not linked to

any Nakshatra or Rashi. Makar Sankramana is about Sankramana of the

Makar rashi.  As I said before that for nearly twenty two 

centuries the Uttarayana did take place in the Makar Rashi. but we

have to live in the present situation when the Uttarayana does not

occur in the Makar Rashi. If you have any doubt abiout the real

meaning of rashi, please go to my last mail.

>  

> Let the truth prevail. It is not late for the astrologers, who did

not know this, to correct themselves and recognise that Winter

Solstice need not be linked up with the Makar Sankramana.

>  

> Regards,

>  

> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

>  

>  

>  

> --- On Tue, 2/24/09, Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com> wrote:

>

> Robert E... Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>

> Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

> sunil_bhattacharjya @

> Cc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com,

HinduCalendar, hinducivilization,

waves-vedic, deenbc , jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT)

com, harimalla@rocketmai l.com

> Tuesday, February 24, 2009, 9:16 AM

>

> 

>

> Namaste Sunil K. Bhattacharjya- ji

>  

> What you write is very interesting indeed but it fails to grasp the

underlying truth of the Makar Sankranti and the Capricorn Gateway.

Because of this, your conclusions regarding the Makar Sankranti and

Winter Solstice, the Sayana and Nirayana systems are completely

incorrect. These are matters of Veda, obtained through Shruti as you

mentioned. But in order to secure a higher understanding of these

important matters we must go back to the Vedic scriptures themselves.

>

> As a matter of curiosity, How many of you on this study group have

even read Sri Aurobindo’s  “Secret of the Veda� If this group

is truly about Vedic Studies, we must get serious about it and go

directly to the source.  That said, there is no better authority on

the Veda than Sri Aurobindo. He has plainly stated that the Vedas are

the oldest extant spiritual scriptures on earth. Its name,

“Veda†-  the Knowledge, is the received name for the highest

spiritual truth of which the human mind is capable. Over the

millennia however this high knowledge became lost or corrupted. “As

the Veda had passed from the sage to the priest, wrote Sri Aurobindo,

so now it began to pass from the hands of the priest into the hands

of the scholar. And in that keeping it suffered the last mutilation

of its sense and the last diminution of its true dignity and

sanctity.†What we are seeing today on WAVES is a continuation of

that mutilation and diminution…

> not through scholars, but through self-important pseudo-scholars

like Yeshu Rathenam who are given free rein to post comments that the

Veda are a “worthless set of books. This has to stop!

>

>  

>

> Among the many secrets of the Veda given by the ancient sages, are

precise instructions, yogic techniques, the goal of which is to help

us ascend beyond our mortal mentality to the luminous truth of our

being on the spiritual plane of our existence. The Rishis are quite

plain spoken on this account. The secret of secrets, the greatest

mystery of the Veda is a supremely enlightened state “Swar†which

results from a perfect alignment of the individual with the twelve

months of the sacrificial year.  

>

>  

>

> " Certain eternal worlds are these which have come into being, their

doors are shut to you (or opened) by the months and the years.

Without effort one world moves in the other, and it is these that

Brihaspati has made manifest to knowledge " Rig Veda   (II.24.5)

>

>  

>

> These secret eternal worlds have been closed to us by our

misperception of the movement of time. The months and the years,

therefore have to be re-discovered and created in us by that same

power. This, says the Rishi, is the mightiest work, the fairest

achievement and it hinges on the conquest of time.

>

>  

>

> “The Vedic idea was that the subconscient darkness and the

ordinary life of ignorance held concealed in it all that belongs to

the divine life and that these secret riches must be recovered first

by destroying the impenitent powers of ignorance and then by

possessing the lower life subjected to the higher.†Sri Aurobindo,

Secret of the Veda (p. 238)

>

>  

>

> What we are interested in writes Sri Aurobindo, is the process by

which one is able to release the soul’s light and come to know and

live the higher stages of the journey and in so doing, developing

‘the unity of the nine-rayed and the ten-rayed seers who by the

utter thought of the soul, by the word that illumines broke open the

fortified pens ...'  This then is the Vedic sacrifice: ‘ a

journey; indeed the sacrifice itself is described as travelling, as

journeying to a divine goal; and the journey and the sacrifice are

continually spoken of as a battle against the dark powers.' Ibid, (p.

183)

>

>  

>

>  '. ... . the possession of our complete divine consciousness

delivered from all falsehood by the free descent of the truth, gives

us the secure possession of the world of Swar and the enjoyment of

mental and physical being lifted into the godhead above the darkness,

falsehood and death by the in-streaming of our divine elements. This

victory is won in twelve periods of the upward journey, represented

by the revolution of the twelve months of the sacrificial year, the

periods corresponding to the successive dawns of a wider and wider

truth, until the tenth secures the victory. What may be the precise

significance of the nine rays and the ten, is a more difficult

question which we are not yet in a position to solve*. But the light

we have already is sufficient to illuminate all the main imagery of

the Rig Veda.' Ibid (p. 182)

>

>  

>

> In his Secret of the Veda, Sri Aurobindo described these worlds of

Swar as “Godheads†but it was not until the cosmological

discoveries made by “Thea†Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet that these

symbols, Vedic “godheads†of “the nine rays and the ten†were

revealed to be synonymous with and referring to the 9th and 10th

months of the cosmic year: Sagittarius and Capricorn. And, according

to the Rishi, it is in the Tenth Month (CAPRICORN) that the final

Victory is achieved. It is for this reason and none other that the

Makar Sankranti, the Capricorn Gateway, is the most important ritual

date in the Hindu Calendar. Perhaps you will now understand why it is

so important that the true Makar Sankranti (Winter Solstice) be

observed on 21 December and not 14 January.

>

>  

>

> In the service of Truth,

>

>  

>

> RE Wilkinson

>

> -

> Sunil Bhattacharjya

> Robert E. Wilkinson

> Monday, February 23, 2009 7:47 PM

> Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

>

> Dear Robert E. wilkinsonji,

>  

> Namaste,

>  

> The astrologers like AKK show concern at Makar Sankranti being

observed about three weeks after the Winter Solstice but they never

care to know what is the true meaning of the Makar Sankranti. Makar

is the Makar rashi and Sankranti means the act of Sankraman or

intrusion. So Makar Sankranti has to when the Sun enters the Makar

Rashi. AKK and others never care to know why Makar Rashi is

considered important. Shravana nakshatra is in the Makar rashi and

this is Nakshatra ruled by Shri Hari. Shravana and Shruti has the

same origin and Shruti is the Veda. Shravana is considered asthe

Nakshatra of the Veda-Mata Saraswati. Before Abhijit Nakshatra, whose

ruler is Brahmaa, moved away to become the Pole-star, Abhijit used to

be a Nakshatra in the makar rashi. Appropriately Makar rashi was

called the Brahma rashi in the Mahabharata.  Astrologically also the

Makar Rashi is considered to be Rashi of Bharatvarsha. Thus the Makar

Rashi has a unique position and

> the Sun's entry into the Makar Rashi is an important event. Thus

the Makar Sankranti has been and will be observed when the Sun enters

the Makar Rashi.

>  

> Now it is also true that at one time the Winter Solstice did take

place in the Makar Rashi  for close to twenty two centuries. Even

the latitudinal line at the point of the Winter Solstice had begun

to be called as the Makar Rekha or the Tropic of Capricorn and this

was appropriate only as long as the Wlnter Solstice occurred in the

true Makar Rashi. So AKK and others think that Makar Sankranti and

Winter Solstice are synonymous, forgetting that this can only happen

only for close to twenty two centuries at a time and then wait for

close to twenty four Millennia for that to reoccur. This is not to

say that the Winter Solstice has no importance. The Tropical

Calendar cannot do without the recognising the Winter Solstice. So

the Tropical calendar has to learn to coexist with the Sidereal

calendar. If those who want to observe the Winter Solstice as the

Uttarayana day can observe it by all means. So let us have one

additional festival

> day on the Uttarayana day for those who want to onserve that

rather than trying to annul the Makar Sankranti festival on the day

when the Sun enters the Makar Rashi.

>  

> Regards,

>  

> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

>  

>  

>  

>

> --- On Mon, 2/23/09, Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com> wrote:

>

> Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>

> Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

> sunil_bhattacharjya @, harimalla@rocketmai l.com

> Cc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com,

HinduCalendar, hinducivilization,

waves-vedic, deenbc , jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com

> Monday, February 23, 2009, 7:55 AM

>

> Namaste Hari Mala-ji,

> Thank you for your response and the interesting information about

the Makar.

>

> You bring up some interesting points in your letter which I feel

the need to address in some detail. Let me begin with your request

that those of us interested in Calendar Reform do this through

a " concerted effort and if possible without changing any of the

current practices and by not insisting on any particular method. It

is your belief that this would be the best type of reform and

acceptable to most " .

>

> I am sure you have the best of intentions but your reply reveals

exactly what is WRONG with the general attitude surrounding these

important matters. Let me explain:

>

> First, it is virtually impossible to reform the calendar through a

concerted effort given the wide gaps in understanding evidenced by

these discussions on WAVES.  I agree with you that Dr. Arya is

worthy of praise but, in my opinion, the scholarship of Krishen Kaul

and Yeshu Rathenam does not rise to that level. Nevertheless you

would prefer that we find an inclusive solution, without changing the

current practices and acceptable to most. In other words you would be

comfortable with some kind of compromise that doesn’t rock the

boat. You are evidently unaware that when it comes to matters of

Higher Truth and the cosmological absolutes that the Veda prescribes,

compromise is simply not an option. What is required is credible

LEADERSHIP that can expose the fallacious logic that so often passes

for wisdom on this discussion group. What I find simply unbelievable

is that many of the members of WAVES, people who supposedly have some

knowledge of the Veda,

> accept the pretentious posturing of AKK as gospel while virtually

ignoring the authoritative statements of Veda masters like Sri

Aurobindo, “Thea†Patrizia-Norelli- Bachelet and Swami Dayananda

Saraswati.  No discrimination is made between the opinions of

scholars and the direct knowledge of the sage. Naturally this results

in an environment of mass confusion out of which true Calendar Reform

cannot emerge.

>

> And what is the result? One of the esteemed leaders of a Vedic

Temple in the US reads what I have written on calendar reform and,

not being a Sanskritist or Jyotish scholar himself, he writes and

asks AKK to set him straight out of his vast experience and

knowledge. Here is someone who holds a position of trust and

leadership in the religious community, responsible for the spiritual

guidance of others, and he has no understanding of these important

matters. I have written him on several occasions to ask for a fair

hearing but, because of his faith in AKK, I have not received even

the courtesy of a reply. So this man, having placed his confidence

in a person of no realization and preferring not to rock the boat,

returns to his flock and leads them on a path of Adharma rather than

make a sincere effort to establish what is and is not the truth of

the Veda. Now multiply this by tens of thousands and you have some

idea of the problem we must overcome to

> re-establish the Sanatana Dharma. 

>

> So to answer your question, No! we cannot give in to compromise.

No! we cannot continue the current Nirayana practices and Yes!, we

must insist on the method laid down in the Veda if we are to have any

meaningful reform of the Calendar.

>

> As for the names of the temples in India that have embraced the

beginnings of Calendar reform, you will find them listed on my

website http://www.vediccos mology.com.

>

> In the service of truth,

>

> RE Wilkinson

>

>  

>

>

> Checked by AVG.

> Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1967 - Release Date:

2/23/2009 7:17 AM

>

>

> Checked by AVG.

> Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1967 - Release Date:

2/23/2009 7:17 AM

>

>

[Guest guest]

Shiv umesh rathenamji,Valiant attempt to understand Hindu scriptures. Everybody does not have the receptive capacity to understand the Vedas. Vedavyasa realised this and he said in the beginning of the Bhagavat purana that he composed the Mahabharata for those uninitiated, who could not understand the higher truths (of the Vedas). In Mahabharata, through the anecdotes, he tried do this to his best. Then he found he did not succeed in simplifying it enough and he

was very sad. Then another rishi Narada advised him to compose the Bhagavat purana so that everybody could understand. So if you really want to understand the tenets of Hinduism better read the Bhagavat Purana.The concepts od Dvaita, Visishtadvaita and Advaita will be difficult for you to understand. You will also not understand what Lord Krishna said regarding the idol worship:

"Pratimaa alpabuddhinaam, Sarvatra samadarshinaam".Please do not try to date the events of Indian history. You will find it difficult. Adi Sankaracharya was born in 509 BCE and that was (509 - 4 =) 505 years before Jesus Christ was born. Hope you will succeed Hinduism fast. Your name, at the first sight, suggested that you are not a Hindu. It is your prerogative to have whatever name you want to have or could it be by any chance your parents kept it like that and you have no hand in that. Best wishes,Sunil K. Bhattacharjya--- On Mon, 3/2/09, yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 wrote:yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter"Sunil Bhattacharjya" <sunil_bhattacharjya, waves-vedic Cc:

robtw, vedicscience, atlantavedictemple, deenbc, jyotirved, harimalla, , Date: Monday, March 2, 2009, 9:10 PM

A careful reading of Hindu literature will reveal that the Puranas, the Vedas, the Ramayana and Mahabharata sanctioned idolatry, polytheism, caste, burning of widows and many other abominations. Indians, at the time of the arrival of the British, had three hundred and thirty millions of gods.. In the Vedas also we see the beginning of natural worship, similar to all tribes in other parts of the world. Nature-worship is the worship of natural objects without any conscious attempt to personalize them. Thus when a river such as the Nile or Ganges was worshipped, it was not the god of the river who received veneration but the ‘divine water’ itself. Later such objects were specifically deified giving rise to polytheism.. But we are being brainwashed for centuries to believe that the

Vedas are the ultimate authoritative scripture for one to pursue the spiritual path to realize God. Badrayana has reinterpreted the Vedas after heavily borrowing ideas from Buddhism and Christianity But a casual reading of the Rig Veda will reveal to us that there are large portions in it which have hardly any connection with religion at all, but they are interesting all the same as relics of antiquity. As for example, this line from Rig Veda:

With bow let us wine kine, with Bow the battle, with Bow be victors in our hot encounters.†So it a cry for battle to win cows and enemy by using the bow. In original Sanskrit, the Rig Veda does not have poetic verses. But the European translators have followed poetic rules and arranged the primitive Rig Veda by following rhyme and rhythm of English poetry.They have also coined their own words and phrases to give a poetic style to the primitive Rig Veda . The Mahabharata, like all primitive epics of the world, is mythical in nature. Originally, the Mahabharata was a popular ballad about the war between the Kurus and the Pandus. Kunti, a daughter of the Yadava clan, was carried away by a barbarian named Pandu and the five Pandava brothers were born of this illegitimate connection. The mythical origin of the five Pandava brothers and the story of the birth of Dhritarashtra and Pandu prove illegitimacy. Repeated indoctrination by Brahmin fanatics has made us to worship the characters in this mythology, as we idealize Shakespearean characters like Hamlet or Juliet. In the battlefield the first thing to do after elaborate preparation the previous day is to attack the enemy. But here there is a twist and Arjuna is made to ask what is right and wrong, and Krishna is made to use the battlefront to

teach him karma, jnana and bhakti. It is clear proof that it an interpolation at a later date. Sankara has reinterpreted Bhagavad-Gita by incorporating into it the essence of Christianity and Buddhism. Sankara was born 800 years after the birth of Jesus. So the Bhagavad-Gita is Sankara’s teaching and not Krishna ’s.. In Greek mythology, Zeus is the father of gods and men, and most powerful of the immortals. He was worshipped as the sky-deity, whose presence was marked by lightning, thunder and rain. Greeks worshipped these mythological gods and goddesses for centuries. Even great intellectuals like Socrates, Plato and Aristotle

worshipped these mythological gods and goddesses as we worship gods and goddesses of Indian mythology. The Greeks had experienced miracles in battles, thereby showing the power of the devil. Once the Greeks found the real God they discarded the gods and goddesses of their mythology. It is indeed a lesson for us.

S.U..Rathenam - shiv umesh rathenam -- (yeshu ratnenam)

 

 

 

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjyawaves-vedic Cc: yeshu2004; robtw; vedicscience; atlantavedictemple; deenbc; jyotirved; harimalla; ; Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 6:11:24 AMRe: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

 

 

 

 

Your name is Yaeshu Ruthenam and you claim to come from a Hindu priestly family. Did you by any chance adopt this name after convesion to Christianity?

 

You have not given any evidence from history to prove that the Mahabharata is a mythology. Mahabharata, being an epic, has stories to convey the Vedic truths to the masses through the medium of stories but it is also an Itihasa or History and the scholars can find the historical information from that. It seems that you do not know the meaning of Itihasa. You have only made false assertions that The mahabharata is all mythology and want to get away with that without giving any concrete reference. As you do not know the difference between assertion and concrete evidence it is not worth pursuing any discussion with you.

 

The festival on December 25, in Constantine's own religion prior to his adopting Christianity for political reasons, was to celebrate the birth of the Sun on the day following the Winter Solstice on December 24 of that year. He made it compulsory to observe that day as the Christmas day in order to glorify Jesus Christ, even though Jesus Christ was not born on December. So you are not aware of the importance given to Winter Solstice in the West in the ancient times.

 

 

 

 

 

--- On Fri, 2/27/09, yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 wrote:

yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Mattersunil_bhattacharjyaDate: Friday, February 27, 2009, 11:42 PM

 

 

I too come from a Hindu priestly class. But I am an egalitarian. I have already given enough evidences from history to prove the Mahabharata is a mythology. About your question about Christmas, I am to state the following:

 

While gods and goddesses of legends and mythology are assumed to be real, how can you call historic and real god Jesus a myth? December 25 was celebrated as the birthday of Jesus by his family, disciples and the first Church -- the Jerusalem Church.. December 25 was observed the birthday of Jesus in all the churches in Asia Minor. It was only later Christianity was taken to the West by Paul. The West was totally hostile to Christianity which spread the message of love, peace and kindness. The early Christians were persecuted in Rome. Several thousands of Christians were killed by the

Roman Emperors.

But in 312 when Emperor Constantine was fighting in Gaul, he had to face a powerful army. His travel-weary soldiers were not having courage and strength to meet the challenge of a far larger force ranging back from the city walls from a bend in the Tiber. Fear gripped the Emperor. It was at that time he saw a great light in the sky in the form of a cross, bearing the inscription Hoc signo vinces (In this sign you will conquer). In the battle Constantine won a miraculous victory. Later Constantine became a Christian. Christianity – the

persecuted

and hated religion --- became the official religion of Rome. December 25 was officially proclaimed the birth date of Jesus after ascertaining from the early church in Jerusalem. But in Rome it coincided with the pagan festival of Solinvictus. That is why this confusion arose. Since Christianity encourages free thought and criticism, unlike Hinduism and Islam, this coincidence of date has been fully exploited by atheists and secular humanists. They even deny the holocaust which happened in the 20th. Century. Will they spare Christmas of the First century?

 

Long before we heard about Moscow, New Delhi, London, Washington and Beijing, King David had founded Jerusalem as capital of Israel. But even today, in the 21st century, Jerusalem is still in the news. Bethlehem where Jesus was born is a hot spot today.. The future of the world will be decided in Jerusalem. Whether it is Putin or Obama, the fate of the world hinges on the decision the world powers will be making on Jerusalem. These events were predicted by Jesus 2000 years ago, and they are happening today, including the economic crises and the nations of the world converging on Jerusalem before the launch of III World War. So Jesus is not a myth but a living God, according to Christians. Let us see how world events unfold according to the prediction of Jesus.

 

 

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjyayeshu rathenam <yeshu2004Friday, February 27, 2009 2:35:35 PMRe: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

 

 

 

 

Namaste Ruthenamji,

 

Please give supporting data with concrete references and not just your imaginative assertions, which have no value at all. I am a Hindu. Can you please let know your religious affiliation too. However if you have any reservation in telling that please let me know and also let me know how much you know about your own scriptures, before dabbling in others'.

 

In your last letter you were talking vehemently about Winter Solstice. In that connection I asked to find out why December 25 was chosen as the Christmas day. Now you seem to be evading that completely. What type of scholarship is this? Reputed western scholars do not do like this. --- On Fri, 2/27/09, yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 wrote:

yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Mattersunil_bhattacharjya, waves-vedic , "Robert E. Wilkinson" <robtwCc: vedicscience, atlantavedictemple, deenbc, jyotirved, harimalla, robtw, , Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 12:20 AM

 

 

Namaste Bhattacharjyaji

 

...

Although tradition holds that an ancient sage called Vyasa wrote the Mahabharata, it was almost certainly composed by a number of different poets and then collected into a single work sometime between 300 B.C. and A.D. 350. The epic reached its present form about 200 years later. It contains nearly 100,000 verses and is divided into 18 sections called parvans. It consists of many legends and tales revolving around the conflicts between two branches of a mythical family. The stories involve deities, demigods, and heroes. Some people foolishly argue that these legends contain elements of cosmology, philosophy, and religious doctrine Cosmology is

a set

of ideas about the origin, history, and structure of the universe, and the imaginary claim of Aurobindo and others borders on insanity. They foolishly claim without any scientific evidence that the Mahabharata belongs to the Dvapar Yuga. Cosmology proves that the Ramayana is much older than the Mahabharata. It does not go beyond the Vindhyas. However, in the case of the Mahabharata, the whole of India was known and the rulers from the south also came to participate in the Mahabharata war. Paninini mentions Vasudeve, Arjuna and Yudhisthira. The Pandavas are not known to the Brhamanas. It is clear from these facts that Vyasa alone did not write the Mahaabharata. It is also quite evident from these facts that the Mahabharata is based on mythology and its heroes and heroines are not historical figures.

 

 

 

A section of the epic called the Bhagavad Gita is the most important religious text of Hinduism. But it was introduced at a later stage by the Gupta rulers to thwart the growing tide of Buddhism. It was interwoven by borrowing ideas from Buddhism and Christianity to give the Mahabharata the image of a religious text. There were Greek satrapies in India before Kanishka came to power. There were Indian ambassadors in the courts of Roman Emperors Augustus, Trajan, Hadrian, Constantine , Julian and Justinian. There was a flourishing Indian population permanently settled in Alexandria . The first Gupta ruler, Chandra Gupta I came to power in 319 A.D. But 300 years before the Guptas came to power, St.Thomas was in the court of Gondopharnes, and from the northwest, Thomas spread the message of Jesus to many in the northern region and finally came to Mylapore and

Kerala.

Although, the Mahabharata is a war literature, the religious part in the epic was later appended by the Gupta kings by heavily borrowing from Christianity and Buddhism.

 

 

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjyawaves-vedic Cc: yeshu2004; vedicscience; atlantavedictemple; deenbc; jyotirved; harimalla; robtw; ; Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 10:00:59 AM[WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry Ruthenamji,

 

There is a typo...

 

Please read the sentence "Hindus believe in one God but respecting the superiors are looked down upon by them." as "Hindus believe in one God but respecting the superiors are not looked down upon by them."

 

Regards,

 

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya--- On Wed, 2/25/09, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @> wrote:

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @> Re: Fw: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matterwaves-vedicCc: yeshu2004 , vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com, deenbc , jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com, harimalla@rocketmai l.com, robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com, , ancient_indian_ astrologyWednesday, February 25, 2009, 8:09 PM

 

 

Dear Shri Ruthenamji, You wrote : Quote The Veda, the Mahabharata war and all Sanskrit literature were brought to light by European scholars. It is cnfirmed that the Mahabharata war was a sheer myth. Unquote I know that European scholars translated the Veda and the Epics into English as they valued these and they wanted their own people to read them and that was a favour to themselves. Indians had these in Sanskrit as well as in their vernacular languages.1)Do you know that till the year 1882 the King James version of the Bible gave the year of creation as 4004 BCE, whereas the Indian texts, which you are condemning without any substantiation, gave the age of the earth as several billion years, which is the same as what the modern science says.?2)Do you know yourself as to why and from when the Christmas began to be celebrated

on December 25 when Jesus Christ himself was born on an earlier month and his year of birth is also on 4 BCE? You should know it first before you say anything about the Winter Solstice. Can you substantiate your statement that the Mahabharata war was a myth and that no such war took place at all? The Indians know how to interpret their ancient texts. The Puranas and Epics are historical texts called Itihasas, interspersed with stories and anecdotes in order to give out the Vedic truths to the masses, through them. You also said : Quote Similarly, the Vedas written by primitive people and like all primitive societies they pray to god for food, health and victory in the war. Unquote The gods in Hinduism, Buddhism (like Tara, amd Manjushri) and Jainism are like the angels of the Semitic religion. Hindus believe that they are

superior beings and they are also created by God and that they are at a higher evolutionary step than we are. The Quran also did not say that one should not seek favour from the angels. Even prophet Muhammad was complaining to the Archangel Gabriel about the latter's coming late.... to him. Hindus believe in one God but respecting the superiors are looked down upon by them. May be you do not know how to respect your superiors. The Vedas cannot be understood by everybody and you are one of them. However if you wish to learn these then you have to go to a guru with due respect and he will teach you provided he finds you worthy of that. As regards Wilkinsonji' s mail I have replied to that in a separate mail.. Regards, Sunil K. Bhattacharjya--- On Wed, 2/25/09, yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 > wrote:yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 >Fw: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Mattersunil_bhattacharjya @, waves04@ .comCc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, "atlanta vedic" <atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com>, "hinc liz"

<hinducivilization>, deenbc (AT) hotmail (DOT) com, harimalla@rocketmai l.comWednesday, February 25, 2009, 6:38 PM----- Forwarded Message ----yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 >Robert E... Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>Thursday, February 26, 2009 8:02:06 AMRe: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important

Matter"\the March Equinox - Cosmic Dawn; the June Solstice - Cosmic Midnight; the September Equinox - Cosmic Sunset; and last but best of all, the December Solstice - Cosmic Midday or Uttarayana, the highest position of the Sun whereby as a single Ray (the lost Sun hidden by Vritra) it descends to the Earth casting no shadows" It is all nonsense that you are writing. The Veda, the Mahabharata war and all Sanskrit literature were brought to light by European scholars. It is cnfirmed that the Mahabharata war was a sheer myth. Then how can you try to fix the date? Similarly, the Vedas written by primitive people and like all primitive societies they pray to god for food, health and victory in the war. It is sheer madness to claim philosophy and science in the primittive works.Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>sunil_bhattacharjya @; waves-vedicCc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com; atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com; hinducivilization; deenbc ; jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com; harimalla@rocketmai l.comWednesday, February 25, 2009 9:01:08 PMRe: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

Namaste Sunil K. Bhattacharj- ji Thank you for your reply. If you would be so kind, please provide me with the exact citation where Sri Aurobindo discusses the date of the Mahabharata war. The root of your error is plainly evident. When you write that, “…for nearly twenty two centuries the Uttarayana did take place in the Makar Rashi. but we have to live in the present situation when the Uttarayana does not occur in the Makar Rashi†, you are basing your conclusions on the Nirayana Sidereal system of calendar measure with its irregular Constellations

and shifting ayanamsha. This is not only unreliable and confusing but worst of all it is un-Vedic. It directly contradicts the verses in the Rig Veda that describe “One wheel of three-hundred and sixty spokes, firmly riveted, that shake not in the least.†This ‘One Wheel’ is the eternal and unchanging Tropical zodiac or Sayana system used by the Rishis to precisely measure the Earth in its yearly passage around the ecliptic as well as a corresponding movement in the individual. The errors of the Nirayana system, to which you evidently , arose with the hegemony ofscientific relativism into the realm of the sacred when the astronomer usurped the role of the sage and seer and proclaimed objective astronomical measurement to be the final authority in calendar matters. All that you have written to support your contention that there is no meaningful connection between Makar Sankranti, the Capricorn

Solstice and Uttarayana, the northward journey of Sun is, in the final analysis, a direct contradiction of the Dharma. Open your mind and listen to the words of the world’s leading Seer and Vedic Cosmologist on these important matters: “…We speak glibly of a SANTANA Dharma, the 'eternal' Law. But what sort of eternal law, and consequent stability, can a shifting calendar provide the Hindu Samaj? The FLOATING AYANAMSHAS in vogue today, which bear no sanction in the Veda, are anything but stable and constant. Each second that passes of our Earth time causes that distant sidereal point light-years away to change position, thereby making that Ayanamsha with each passing second inoperable and inapplicable for any ritual. If the pundit is sincere to his trade, he must know this. He must know that yesterday's Ayanamsha cannot be held today as valid because IT HAS SHIFTED IN THE HEAVENS, perhaps slightly, but shifted it has. Today it is not

where it was yesterday. And if we add to this the complete impossibility to determine just where and what that Ayanamsha might be, then we understand why there is total confusion among the ranks of the pundits. And Hinduism suffers an increasingdeterioration accordingly, with each ritual that propagates this illusion. Absolutism of the eternal Dharma lies within our grasp if we take the same Journey the Veda pre-scribes, poised on the immutable four Cardinal Points: the March Equinox - Cosmic Dawn; the June Solstice - Cosmic Midnight; the September Equinox - Cosmic Sunset; and last but best of all, the December Solstice - Cosmic Midday or Uttarayana, the highest position of the Sun whereby as a single Ray (the lost Sun hidden by Vritra) it descends to the Earth casting no shadows. And therefore it is known as the period of Victory for the Aryan Warrior; or, in the larger cycles of time, as the Golden Age, the Satya

Yuga. We need to understand the 'seed' nature of the Makar Sankranti and how it can be said that this is an experience of both the Earth, the individual and of the collective Hindu Samaj, all simultaneously on that very special Solstice.. This is understood when we realise that Time itself is compressed to a seed at the De-cember Solstice. The 'shortest day of the year' has no other factual significance for inhabitants of our special planet than this: compression to a point, compaction to a seed. The light of the Sun, those divine Cows/Rays, is compressed to this point-experience of Time when its measure reaches the extremes of itself [the Solstice or SHORTEST day of the year]. And then when the [Makar] Sankranti is observed with the right 'combination' - the right harmony of the Earth to the Ecliptic - the entire Hindu Samaj connects itself through this 'seed-point' to the replenishing Source from which it originally sprang. Today

as in aeons gone by,it can drink once again of the waters the Goddess Mahasaraswati benignly releases abroad upon the world. “Thea†Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet, THE MAKAR SANKRANTI - Winter Solstice RE Wilkinson- Sunil Bhattacharjya waves-vedic Cc: robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com ; vedicscience@ rediffmail. com ; atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com ; hinducivilization ; deenbc ; jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com ; harimalla@rocketmai l.com Tuesday, February 24, 2009 8:54 PMRe: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important MatterNamaste R....E.Wilkinsonji, Namaste, You wrote as follows: Quote What you write is very interesting indeed but it fails to grasp the underlying truth of the Makar Sankranti and the Capricorn Gateway. Because of this, your conclusions regarding the Makar

Sankranti

and Winter Solstice, the Sayana and Nirayana systems are completely incorrect.unquote On the contrary you have not understood the difference between the significance of Makara Sankranti and that of Uttarayana. You have referred to Sri Aurobindo. Starting from the day when Lele taught him how to meditate he did advance to high level of thought. But all that Sri Aurobindo said are not to be taken blindly. He said that the Mahabharata war took place in 1190 BCE and we now know that he was wrong from the archaeological evidence itself as the river Saraswati dried up much before 1190 BCE and that at the time of the Mahabharata war it was flowing and Balarama's going to the Saraswati is mentioned in the Mahabharata. . You have quoted from the Rig Veda. Agreed that Brahmanaspati (Brihaspati) did make the knowledge appear (or known) that the certain eternal worlds came into being, which open their doors

with moons ( bright and dark fortnights) and autumns (seasons) and that these (the eternal worlds) move effortlessly from one to another, but it did not link up the Makar Rashi with any season. In the Chapter 8 of the Bhagavad Gita Lord Krishna describes the path by which the yogi, who has known the Brahman departs. Lord Krishna also describes the path by which the yogi, who is disciplined but has not realised Brahman, goes. Other sources such as the Chandogya Upanishad, Baudhayana smriti, Shiva gita and Kurma purana give details of these aspects but nowhere they have linked up Makar Sankranti with Uttarayana. Different ancient texts, composed at different time periods, mention a particular season occurring at different Nakshatras which shows that the seasonsare not tied to the Nakshatras and as the Winter season starts with the Uttarayana so also the Uttarayana should also be not linked to any Nakshatra or Rashi.

Makar Sankramana is about Sankramana of the Makar rashi. As I said before that for nearly twenty two centuries the Uttarayana did take place in the Makar Rashi. but we have to live in the present situation when the Uttarayana does not occur in the Makar Rashi. If you have any doubt abiout the real meaning of rashi, please go to my last mail. Let the truth prevail. It is not late for the astrologers, who did not know this, to correct themselves and recognise that Winter Solstice need not be linked up with the Makar Sankramana. Regards, Sunil K. Bhattacharjya --- On Tue, 2/24/09, Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com> wrote:Robert E.... Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Mattersunil_bhattacharjya @Cc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com,

HinduCalendar, hinducivilization, waves-vedic, deenbc , jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com, harimalla@rocketmai l.comTuesday, February 24, 2009, 9:16 AM Namaste Sunil K. Bhattacharjya- ji What you write is very interesting indeed but it fails to grasp the underlying truth of the Makar Sankranti and the Capricorn Gateway. Because of this, your conclusions regarding the Makar Sankranti and Winter Solstice, the Sayana and Nirayana systems are completely incorrect. These are matters of Veda, obtained through Shruti as you mentioned. But in order to secure a higher understanding of these important matters we must go back to the Vedic scriptures themselves. As a matter of curiosity, How many of you on this study group have even read Sri Aurobindo’s “Secret of the Veda� If this group is truly about Vedic Studies, we must get serious about it and go

directly to the source. That said, there is no better authority on the Veda than Sri Aurobindo. He has plainly stated that the Vedas are the oldest extant spiritual scriptures on earth. Its name, “Veda†- the Knowledge, is the received name for the highest spiritual truth of which the human mind is capable. Over the millennia however this high knowledge became lost or corrupted. “As the Veda had passed from the sage to the priest, wrote Sri Aurobindo, so now it began to pass from the hands of the priest into the hands of the scholar. And in that keeping it suffered the last mutilation of its sense and the last diminution of its true dignity and sanctity.†What we are seeing today on WAVES is a continuation of that mutilation and diminution…not through scholars, but through self-important pseudo-scholars like Yeshu Rathenam who are given free rein to post comments that the Veda are a “worthless set of books. This has to

stop! Among the many secrets of the Veda given by the ancient sages, are precise instructions, yogic techniques, the goal of which is to help us ascend beyond our mortal mentality to the luminous truth of our being on the spiritual plane of our existence. The Rishis are quite plain spoken on this account. The secret of secrets, the greatest mystery of the Veda is a supremely enlightened state “Swar†which results from a perfect alignment of the individual with the twelve months of the sacrificial year. "Certain eternal worlds are these which have come into being, their doors are shut to you (or opened) by the months and the years. Without effort one world moves in the other, and it is these that Brihaspati has made manifest to knowledge" Rig Veda (II.24.5) These secret eternal worlds have been closed to us by our misperception of the movement of time. The months

and the years, therefore have to be re-discovered and created in us by that same power. This, says the Rishi, is the mightiest work, the fairest achievement and it hinges on the conquest of time. “The Vedic idea was that the subconscient darkness and the ordinary life of ignorance held concealed in it all that belongs to the divine life and that these secret riches must be recovered first by destroying the impenitent powers of ignorance and then by possessing the lower life subjected to the higher.†Sri Aurobindo, Secret of the Veda (p. 238) What we are interested in writes Sri Aurobindo, is the process by which one is able to release the soul’s light and come to know and live the higher stages of the journey and in so doing, developing ‘the unity of the nine-rayed and the ten-rayed seers who by the utter thought of the soul, by the word that illumines broke open the fortified pens

....' This then is the Vedic sacrifice: ‘ a journey; indeed the sacrifice itself is described as travelling, as journeying to a divine goal; and the journey and the sacrifice are continually spoken of as a battle against the dark powers.' Ibid, (p. 183) '. .... . the possession of our complete divine consciousness delivered from all falsehood by the free descent of the truth, gives us the secure possession of the world of Swar and the enjoyment of mental and physical being lifted into the godhead above the darkness, falsehood and death by the in-streaming of our divine elements. This victory is won in twelve periods of the upward journey, represented by the revolution of the twelve months of the sacrificial year, the periods corresponding to the successive dawns of a wider and wider truth, until the tenth secures the victory. What may be the precise significance of the nine rays and the ten, is a more difficult

question which we are not yet in a position to solve*. But the light we have already is sufficient to illuminate all the main imagery of the Rig Veda..' Ibid (p. 182) In his Secret of the Veda, Sri Aurobindo described these worlds of Swar as “Godheads†but it was not until the cosmological discoveries made by “Thea†Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet that these symbols, Vedic “godheads†of “the nine rays and the ten†were revealed to be synonymous with and referring to the 9th and 10th months of the cosmic year: Sagittarius and Capricorn. And, according to the Rishi, it is in the Tenth Month (CAPRICORN) that the final Victory is achieved. It is for this reason and none other that the Makar Sankranti, the Capricorn Gateway, is the most important ritual date in the Hindu Calendar. Perhaps you will now understand why it is so important that the true Makar Sankranti (Winter Solstice) be observed on 21 December and not 14

January. In the service of Truth, RE Wilkinson - Sunil Bhattacharjya Robert E. Wilkinson Monday, February 23, 2009 7:47 PMRe: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important MatterDear Robert E. wilkinsonji, Namaste, The astrologers like AKK show concern at Makar Sankranti being observed about three weeks after the Winter Solstice but they never care to know what is the true meaning of the Makar Sankranti. Makar is the Makar rashi and Sankranti means the act of Sankraman or intrusion. So Makar Sankranti has to when the Sun enters the Makar Rashi. AKK and others never care to know why Makar Rashi is considered important. Shravana nakshatra is in the Makar rashi and this is Nakshatra ruled by Shri Hari. Shravana and Shruti has the same origin and Shruti is the Veda. Shravana is considered asthe

Nakshatra of the Veda-Mata Saraswati. Before Abhijit Nakshatra, whose ruler is Brahmaa, moved away to become the Pole-star, Abhijit used to be a Nakshatra in the makar rashi. Appropriately Makar rashi was called the Brahma rashi in the Mahabharata. Astrologically also the Makar Rashi is considered to be Rashi of Bharatvarsha. Thus the Makar Rashi has a unique position andthe Sun's entry into the Makar Rashi is an important event. Thus the Makar Sankranti has been and will be observed when the Sun enters the Makar Rashi. Now it is also true that at one time the Winter Solstice did take place in the Makar Rashi for close to twenty two centuries. Even the latitudinal line at the point of the Winter Solstice had begun to be called as the Makar Rekha or the Tropic of Capricorn and this was appropriate only as long as the Wlnter Solstice occurred in the true Makar

Rashi. So AKK and others think that Makar Sankranti and Winter Solstice are synonymous, forgetting that this can only happen only for close to twenty two centuries at a time and then wait for close to twenty four Millennia for that to reoccur. This is not to say that the Winter Solstice has no importance. The Tropical Calendar cannot do without the recognising the Winter Solstice. So the Tropical calendar has to learn to coexist with the Sidereal calendar. If those who want to observe the Winter Solstice as the Uttarayana day can observe it by all means. So let us have one additional festivalday on the Uttarayana day for those who want to onserve that rather than trying to annul the Makar Sankranti festival on the day when the Sun enters the Makar Rashi. Regards, Sunil K. Bhattacharjya --- On Mon, 2/23/09, Robert E. Wilkinson

<robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com> wrote:Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Mattersunil_bhattacharjya @, harimalla@rocketmai l.comCc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com, HinduCalendar, hinducivilization, waves-vedic, deenbc , jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) comMonday, February 23, 2009, 7:55 AMNamaste Hari Mala-ji,Thank you for your response and the interesting information about the Makar. You bring up some interesting points in your letter which I feel the need to address in some detail. Let me begin with your request that those of us interested in Calendar Reform do this through a "concerted effort and if possible without changing any of the current practices and by not insisting on any particular method. It is your belief that this would be the best type of

reform and acceptable to most". I am sure you have the best of intentions but your reply reveals exactly what is WRONG with the general attitude surrounding these important matters. Let me explain: First, it is virtually impossible to reform the calendar through a concerted effort given the wide gaps in understanding evidenced by these discussions on WAVES.. I agree with you that Dr. Arya is worthy of praise but, in my opinion, the scholarship of Krishen Kaul and Yeshu Rathenam does not rise to that level. Nevertheless you would prefer that we find an inclusive solution, without changing the current practices and acceptable to most. In other words you would be comfortable with some kind of compromise that doesn’t rock the boat. You are evidently unaware that when it comes to matters of Higher Truth and the cosmological absolutes that the Veda prescribes, compromise is simply not an option. What is required is credible LEADERSHIP

that can expose the fallacious logic that so often passes for wisdom on this discussion group. What I find simply unbelievable is that many of the members of WAVES, people who supposedly have some knowledge of the Veda,accept the pretentious posturing of AKK as gospel while virtually ignoring the authoritative statements of Veda masters like Sri Aurobindo, “Thea†Patrizia-Norelli- Bachelet and Swami Dayananda Saraswati. No discrimination is made between the opinions of scholars and the direct knowledge of the sage. Naturally this results in an environment of mass confusion out of which true Calendar Reform cannot emerge. And what is the result? One of the esteemed leaders of a Vedic Temple in the US reads what I have written on calendar reform and, not being a Sanskritist or Jyotish scholar himself, he writes and asks AKK to set him straight out of his vast experience and knowledge. Here is someone who holds a position of trust and

leadership in the religious community, responsible for the spiritual guidance of others, and he has no understanding of these important matters. I have written him on several occasions to ask for a fair hearing but, because of his faith in AKK, I have not received even the courtesy of a reply. So this man, having placed his confidence in a person of no realization and preferring not to rock the boat, returns to his flock and leads them on a path of Adharma rather than make a sincere effort to establish what is and is not the truth of the Veda. Now multiply this by tens of thousands and you have some idea of the problem we must overcome tore-establish the Sanatana Dharma. So to answer your question, No! we cannot give in to compromise. No! we cannot continue the current Nirayana practices and Yes!, we must insist on the method laid down in the Veda if we are to have any meaningful reform of the Calendar. As for

the names of the temples in India that have embraced the beginnings of Calendar reform, you will find them listed on my website http://www.vediccos mology.com. In the service of truth, RE Wilkinson Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1967 - Release 2/23/2009 7:17 AMChecked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1967 - Release 2/23/2009 7:17 AM

[Guest guest]

Shiv umesh rathenamji,Namaste,It appears that you have difficulty in grasping that there is a difference between recitation and comprehension. Adi Sankaracharya has not asked anybody not to pray to God. If Adi Sankaracharya's teachings are beyond your comprehension you can leave it. I am sure you are not in this forum simply to condemn the Indian seers and the Indian philosophy but to understand them. It appears that you have

formed your opinion already. Do as you feel proper for you. BTW do you know Sanskrit and have you read any of Adi Sankaracharya's work in Sanskrit?--- On Tue, 3/3/09, yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 wrote:yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004Re:

[WAVES-Vedic] An Important Mattersunil_bhattacharjyaDate: Tuesday, March 3, 2009, 8:02 AMNameste Sunilji

 

The high sounding Samskrit words 'dvaita', 'vishistadvaita', and 'advaita' have been easily recited even by illiterate tribes who call their God supreme and look upon their god as one invisible or the one visible in matter. The high sounding samskrit word 'paramatma' is a supreme god of a tribal. What is known is made complicated by Sankara and what is practised by all in every part of the world is made unknown by Sankara and others and thereby prohibiting non-Brahmins to know about the Brahmin Samskrit mantra. It has all emanated from mythology and legends. It is high time Sunilji realized the truth and turn to the real God

[Guest guest]

Lord Buddha on the contrary told the brahmins to try to understand the true

meaning of the Vedas. Lord Buddha quoted from Veda to tell Bimbisara that Vedas

did not sanction animal sacrifice. One full chapter of Dhammapada is devoted to

brahmin. In fact Lord Buddha said that he would take his next birth in a brahmin

family. Dr. Ambedkar's statements are not in consonance with what Lord Buddha

said. If you want to contradict Lord Buddha I have no problem but I respect Lord

Buddha and I ignore the ones who contradict what Lord Buddha said. You must read

about the arguments between Mahatma Gabdhi, the Champion of the the Harijans and

Dr. Ambedkar on these issues.

 

Many people think that Dr. Ambedkar hated Hinduism and the brahmins. On the

contrary he married a brahmin lady and he remained Hindu till the very end of

his life. He got converted to Buddhism only some days before his death.

 

I understand from other members you had a lot of discussions earlier in this

forum before my joining it. Still if you really want to know about Hinduism

please do not belligerant as no teacher likes a belligerant student.

 

 

 

--- On Wed, 3/4/09, yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 wrote:

yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004

Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

" Vedic Temple " <atlantavedictemple

Cc: " Sunil Bhattacharjya " <sunil_bhattacharjya,

waves-vedic , robtw, vedicscience,

deenbc, jyotirved, harimalla,

,

Wednesday, March 4, 2009, 8:07 PM

 

It is only after reading Satyarth Prakash, a learned scholar like Dr. Ambedkar

has given the following message:

 

 

I am giving below Dr. B.R.Ambedkar’s views on the Vedas representing the

sanatana dharma: “Now the Brahmins have left no room for doubt, for they have

propounded a most mischievous dogma which the Brahmins have spread among the

masses, is the dogma of the infallibility of the Vedas. If the Hindu intellect

has ceased to grow and if the Hindu civilization and culture has become a

stagnant and stinking pool, this dogma must be destroyed root and branch if

India is to progress. The Vedas are a worthless set of books. There is no reason

either to call them sacred or infallible. The Brahmins have invested it with

sanctity and infallibility only because by a later interpolation of what is

called the Purusha – Sukta, the Vedas have made them the lords of the Earth.

Nobody has had the courage to ask why these worthless books which contain

nothing but invocation to tribal gods to destroy the enemies, loot their

property and give it to their followers(have

been made sacred and infallible).  

But the time has come when the Hindu mind must be freed from the hold which the

silly ideas propagated by the Brahmins, are on them. Without this liberation

India has no future. I have undertaken this task knowing full well what risk it

involves. I am not afraid of consequences. I shall be happy if I succeed in

stirring the masses.†Dr. Ambedkar

 

 

 

 

Vedic Temple <atlantavedictemple

yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004

Cc: Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya;

waves-vedic ; robtw; vedicscience;

deenbc; jyotirved; harimalla;

;

Wednesday, March 4, 2009 3:43:01 AM

Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

 

 

 

 

 

 

Namastey,

 

Read Styarth Prakash here, to clear some of the confusion.

 

http://www.satyavid ya.org/downloads /cat_view/ 48-satyarth- prakash 

 

Also, the link below may be helpful in getting the questions answered.

 

http://www.satyavid ya.org/must- read 

 

 

Thanks

 

 

 

On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 12:10 AM, yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 > wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

A careful reading of Hindu literature will reveal that the Puranas, the Vedas,

the Ramayana and Mahabharata sanctioned idolatry, polytheism, caste, burning of

widows and many other abominations. Indians, at the time of the arrival of the

British, had three hundred and thirty millions of gods.. In the Vedas also we

see the beginning of natural worship, similar to all tribes in other parts of

the world. Nature-worship is the worship of natural objects without any

conscious attempt to personalize them. Thus when a river such as the Nile or

Ganges was worshipped, it was not the god of the river who received veneration

but the ‘divine water’ itself. Later such objects were specifically deified

giving rise to polytheism.. But we are being brainwashed for centuries to

believe that the Vedas are the ultimate authoritative scripture for one to

pursue the spiritual path to realize God. Badrayana has reinterpreted the Vedas

after heavily borrowing ideas from

Buddhism and Christianity But a casual reading of the Rig Veda will reveal to

us that there are large portions in it which have hardly any connection with

religion at all, but they are interesting all the same as relics of antiquity.

As for example, this line from Rig Veda:

With bow let us wine kine, with Bow the battle, with Bow be victors in our hot

encounters.â€

 So it a cry for battle to win cows and enemy by using the bow. In original

Sanskrit, the Rig Veda does not have poetic verses. But the European translators

have followed poetic rules and arranged the primitive Rig Veda by following

rhyme and rhythm of English poetry.They have also coined their own words and

phrases to give a poetic style to the primitive Rig Veda

 

.. The Mahabharata, like all primitive epics of the world, is mythical in nature.

 Originally, the Mahabharata was a popular ballad about the war between the

Kurus and the Pandus. Kunti, a daughter of the Yadava clan, was carried away by

a barbarian named Pandu and the five Pandava brothers were born of this

illegitimate connection. The mythical origin of the five Pandava brothers and

the story of the birth of Dhritarashtra and Pandu prove illegitimacy. Repeated

indoctrination by Brahmin fanatics has made us to worship the characters in this

mythology, as we idealize Shakespearean characters like Hamlet or Juliet. In the

battlefield the first thing to do after elaborate preparation the previous day

is to attack the enemy.. But here there is a twist and Arjuna is made to ask

what is right and wrong, and Krishna is made to use the battlefront to teach him

karma, jnana and bhakti.

 It is clear proof that it an interpolation at a later date. Sankara has

reinterpreted Bhagavad-Gita by incorporating into it the essence of Christianity

and Buddhism. Sankara was born 800 years after the birth of Jesus. So the

Bhagavad-Gita is Sankara’s teaching and not Krishna’s.. In Greek mythology,

Zeus is the father of gods and men, and most powerful of the immortals. He was

worshipped as the sky-deity, whose presence was marked by lightning, thunder and

rain. Greeks worshipped these mythological gods and goddesses for centuries.

Even great intellectuals like Socrates, Plato and Aristotle worshipped these

mythological gods and goddesses as we worship gods and goddesses of Indian

mythology. The Greeks had experienced miracles in battles, thereby showing the

power of the devil.. Once the Greeks found the real God they discarded the gods

and goddesses of their mythology. It is indeed a lesson for us.

S.U..Rathenam - shiv umesh rathenam -- (yeshu ratnenam)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @>

waves-vedic

Cc: yeshu2004 ; robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com; vedicscience@ rediffmail. com;

atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com; deenbc ; jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) .com;

harimalla@rocketmai l.com; ; ancient_indian_

astrology

Monday, March 2, 2009 6:11:24 AM

Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your name is Yaeshu Ruthenam and you claim to come from a Hindu priestly family.

Did you by any chance adopt this name after convesion to Christianity? 

 

You have not given any evidence from history to prove that the Mahabharata is a

mythology. Mahabhara ta, being an epic, has stories to convey the Vedic truths

to the masses through the medium of stories but it is also an Itihasa or

History and the scholars can find the historical information from that. It

seems that you do not know the meaning of Itihasa. You have only made false

assertions that The mahabharata is all mythology and want to get away with that

without giving any concrete reference. As you do not know the difference between

assertion and concrete evidence it is not worth pursuing any discussion with

you.

 

The festival on December 25, in Constantine's own religion prior to his

adopting Christianity for political reasons,  was to celebrate the birth of the

Sun on the day following the Winter Solstice on December 24 of that year.  He

made it compulsory to observe that day as the Christmas day in order to glorify

Jesus Christ, even though Jesus Christ was not born on December. So you are not

aware of the importance given to Winter Solstice in the West in the ancient

times.

 

 

 

 

 

 

--- On Fri, 2/27/09, yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 > wrote:

 

yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 >

Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

sunil_bhattacharjya @

Friday, February 27, 2009, 11:42 PM

 

 

 

 

I too come from a Hindu priestly class. But I am an egalitarian. I have already

given enough evidences from history to prove the Mahabharata is a mythology.

About your question about Christmas, I am to state the following:

 

 

While gods and goddesses of legends and mythology are assumed to be real, how

can you call historic and real god Jesus a myth? December 25 was celebrated as

the birthday of Jesus by his family, disciples and the first Church -- the

Jerusalem Church..  December 25 was observed the birthday of Jesus in all the

churches in Asia Minor. It was only later Christianity was taken to the West by

Paul. The West was totally hostile to Christianity which spread the message of

love, peace and kindness. The early Christians were persecuted in Rome. Several

thousands of Christians were killed by the Roman Emperors. But in 312 when

Emperor Constantine was

fighting in Gaul, he had to face a powerful army. His travel-weary soldiers

were not having courage and strength to meet the challenge of a far larger force

ranging back from the city walls from a bend in the Tiber. Fear gripped the

Emperor. It was at that time he saw a great light in the sky in the form of a

cross, bearing the inscription Hoc signo vinces (In this sign you will

conquer).  In the battle Constantine won a miraculous victory. Later

Constantine became a Christian.  Christianity – the persecuted and hated

religion --- became the official

religion of Rome. December 25 was officially proclaimed the birth date of Jesus

after ascertaining from the early church in Jerusalem.  But in Rome it

coincided with the pagan festival of Solinvictus. That is why this confusion

arose. Since Christianity encourages free thought and criticism, unlike Hinduism

and Islam, this coincidence of date has been fully exploited by atheists and

secular humanists. They even deny the holocaust which happened in the 20th.

Century. Will they spare Christmas of the First century?

 

Long before we heard about Moscow, New Delhi, London, Washington and Beijing,

King David had founded Jerusalem as capital of Israel. But even today, in the

21st century, Jerusalem is still in the news.

Bethlehem where Jesus was born is a hot spot today.. The future of the world

will be decided in Jerusalem. Whether it is Putin or Obama, the fate of the

world hinges on the decision the world powers will be  making  on Jerusalem.

These events were predicted by Jesus 2000 years ago, and they are happening

today, including the economic crises and the nations of the world converging on

Jerusalem before the launch of III World War. So Jesus is not a myth but a

living God, according to Christians. Let us see how world events unfold

according to the prediction of Jesus.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @>

yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 >

Friday, February 27, 2009 2:35:35 PM

Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

 

 

 

 

 

 

Namaste Ruthenamji,

 

Please give supporting data with concrete references and not just your

imaginative assertions, which have no value at all. I am a Hindu. Can you please

let know your religious affiliation too. However if you have any reservation in

telling that please let me know  and also let me know how much you know about

your own scriptures, before dabbling in others'.

 

In your last letter you were talking vehemently about Winter Solstice. In that

connection I asked to find out why December 25 was chosen as the Christmas day.

Now you seem to be evading that completely. What type of scholarship is this?

Reputed western scholars do not do like this.

 

--- On Fri, 2/27/09, yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 > wrote:

 

yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 >

Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

sunil_bhattacharjya @..com, waves-vedic, " Robert E.

Wilkinson " <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>

Cc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com, deenbc (AT) (DOT)

com, jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com, harimalla@rocketmai l.com, robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com,

, ancient_indian_ astrology

Friday, February 27, 2009,

12:20 AM

 

 

 

 

Namaste Bhattacharjyaji

 

 

...

 Although tradition holds that an ancient sage called Vyasa wrote the

Mahabharata, it was almost certainly composed by a number of different poets and

then collected into a single work sometime between 300 B.C. and A.D. 350. The

epic reached its present form about 200 years later. It contains nearly 100,000

verses and is divided into 18 sections called parvans. It consists of many

legends and tales revolving around the conflicts between two branches of a

mythical family. The stories involve deities, demigods, and heroes. Some people

foolishly argue that these legends contain elements of cosmology, philosophy,

and religious doctrine Cosmology is a set of ideas about the origin, history,

and

structure of the universe, and the imaginary claim of Aurobindo and others

borders on insanity. They foolishly claim without any scientific evidence that

the Mahabharata belongs to the Dvapar Yuga.  Cosmology proves that the Ramayana

is much older than the Mahabharata. It does not go beyond the Vindhyas. However,

in the case of the Mahabharata, the whole of India was known and the rulers from

the south also came to participate in the Mahabharata war. Paninini mentions

Vasudeve, Arjuna and Yudhisthira. The Pandavas are not known to the Brhamanas.

It is clear from these facts that Vyasa alone did not write the Mahaabharata. It

is also quite evident from these facts that the Mahabharata is based on

mythology and its heroes and heroines are not historical figures.

 

 

 

 

A section of the epic called the Bhagavad Gita is the most important religious

text of Hinduism. But it was introduced at a later stage by the Gupta rulers to

thwart the growing tide of Buddhism. It was interwoven by borrowing ideas from

Buddhism and Christianity to give the Mahabharata the image of a religious text.

There were Greek satrapies in India before Kanishka came to power. There were

Indian ambassadors in the courts of Roman Emperors Augustus, Trajan, Hadrian,

Constantine , Julian and Justinian. There was a flourishing Indian population

permanently settled in Alexandria . The first Gupta ruler, Chandra Gupta I came

to power in 319 A.D. But 300 years before the Guptas came to power, St.Thomas

was in the court of Gondopharnes, and from the northwest, Thomas spread the

message of Jesus to many in the northern region and finally came to Mylapore and

Kerala. Although, the Mahabharata is a

war literature, the religious part in the epic was later appended by the Gupta

kings by heavily borrowing from Christianity and Buddhism.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @>

waves-vedic

Cc: yeshu2004 ; vedicscience@ rediffmail. com; atlantavedictemple@

gmail.com; deenbc ; jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com; harimalla@rocketmai l.com;

robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com; ; ancient_indian_ astrology@

. com

Thursday, February 26, 2009 10:00:59 AM

[WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry Ruthenamji,

 

There is a typo...

 

Please read the sentence " Hindus believe in one God but respecting the superiors

are looked down upon by them. " as " Hindus believe in one God but respecting the

superiors are not looked down upon by them. "

 

Regards,

 

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

 

--- On Wed, 2/25/09, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @> wrote:

 

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @>

Re: Fw: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

waves-vedic

Cc: yeshu2004 , vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, atlantavedictemple@

gmail.com, deenbc , jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com, harimalla@rocketmai l.com,

robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com, , ancient_indian_ astrology@

. com

Wednesday, February 25, 2009, 8:09 PM

 

 

 

 

Dear Shri Ruthenamji,

 

You wrote :

 

Quote

 

The Veda, the Mahabharata war and all Sanskrit literature were brought to light

by European scholars. It is cnfirmed that the Mahabharata war was a sheer myth.

 

Unquote

 

I know that European scholars translated the Veda and the Epics into

English  as they valued these and they wanted their own people to read them

and that was a favour to themselves.  Indians had these in Sanskrit as well as

in their vernacular languages.

1)

Do you know that till the  year 1882 the King James version of the Bible gave

the year of creation as 4004 BCE, whereas the Indian texts, which you are

condemning without any substantiation, gave the age of the earth as several

billion years, which is the same as what the modern science says.?

2)

Do you know yourself as to why and from when the Christmas began to be

celebrated

on  December 25 when Jesus Christ himself was born on an earlier month

 and his year of birth is also on 4 BCE? You should know it first before you

say anything about the Winter Solstice.

 

Can you substantiate your statement that the Mahabharata war was a myth and that

no such war took place at all? The Indians know how to interpret their ancient

texts. The Puranas and Epics are historical texts called Itihasas, interspersed

with stories and anecdotes in order to give out the Vedic truths to the

masses, through them. 

 

You also said :

 

Quote

 

Similarly, the Vedas written by primitive people and like all primitive

societies they pray to god for food, health and victory in the war.

 

Unquote

 

The gods in Hinduism, Buddhism (like Tara, amd Manjushri) and Jainism are like

the angels of the Semitic religion. Hindus believe that they are

superior beings and they are also created by God and that they are at a higher

evolutionary step than we are. The Quran also did not say that one should not

seek favour from the angels. Even prophet Muhammad was complaining to the

Archangel Gabriel about the latter's coming late..... to him. Hindus believe

in one God but respecting the superiors are looked down upon by them. May be you

do not know how to respect your superiors.. 

 

The Vedas cannot be understood by everybody and you are one of them. However if

you wish to learn these then you have to go to a guru with due respect and he

will teach you provided he finds you worthy of that.

 

As regards  Wilkinsonji' s mail I have replied to that in a separate mail.. 

 

Regards,

 

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

 

--- On Wed, 2/25/09, yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 > wrote:

 

yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 >

Fw: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

sunil_bhattacharjya @, waves04@ .com

Cc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, " atlanta vedic " <atlantavedictemple@

gmail.com>, " hinc liz "

<hinducivilization>, deenbc (AT) hotmail (DOT) com, harimalla@rocketmai

l.com

Wednesday, February 25, 2009, 6:38 PM

 

----- Forwarded Message ----

yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 >

Robert E... Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>

Thursday, February 26, 2009 8:02:06 AM

Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important

Matter

 

" \the March Equinox - Cosmic Dawn; the June Solstice - Cosmic Midnight; the

September Equinox - Cosmic Sunset; and last but best of all, the December

Solstice - Cosmic Midday or Uttarayana, the highest position of the Sun whereby

as a single Ray (the lost Sun hidden by Vritra) it descends to the Earth casting

no shadows " It is all nonsense that you are writing. The Veda, the Mahabharata

war and all Sanskrit literature were brought to light by European scholars. It

is cnfirmed that the Mahabharata war was a sheer myth. Then how can you try to

fix the date? Similarly, the Vedas written by primitive people and like all

primitive societies they pray to god for food, health and victory in the war. It

is sheer madness to claim philosophy and science in the primittive works.

 

Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>

sunil_bhattacharjya @; waves-vedic

Cc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com; atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com;

hinducivilization; deenbc ; jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com;

harimalla@rocketmai l.com

Wednesday, February 25, 2009 9:01:08 PM

Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

 



 

Namaste Sunil K. Bhattacharj- ji

 

Thank you for your reply. If you would be so kind, please provide me with the

exact citation where Sri Aurobindo discusses the date of the Mahabharata war.

 

 

The root of your error is plainly evident. When you write that, “…for nearly

twenty two  centuries the Uttarayana did take place in the Makar Rashi. but we

have to live in the present situation when the Uttarayana does not occur in the

Makar Rashi†, you are basing your conclusions on the Nirayana Sidereal system

of calendar measure with its irregular Constellations

and shifting ayanamsha. This is not only unreliable and confusing but worst of

all it is un-Vedic. It directly contradicts the verses in the Rig Veda that

describe  “One wheel of three-hundred and sixty spokes, firmly riveted, that

shake not in the least.†This ‘One Wheel’ is the eternal and unchanging

Tropical zodiac or Sayana system used by the Rishis to precisely measure the

Earth in its yearly passage around the ecliptic as well as a corresponding

movement in the individual. The errors of the Nirayana system, to which you

evidently , arose with the hegemony of

scientific relativism into the realm of the sacred when the astronomer usurped

the role of the sage and seer and proclaimed objective astronomical measurement

to be the final authority in calendar matters.

   

All that you have written to support your contention that there is no meaningful

connection between Makar Sankranti, the Capricorn

Solstice and Uttarayana, the northward journey of Sun is, in the final

analysis, a direct contradiction of the Dharma. Open your mind and listen to the

words of the world’s leading Seer and Vedic Cosmologist on these important

matters:

 

“…We speak glibly of a SANTANA Dharma, the 'eternal' Law. But what sort of

eternal law, and consequent stability, can a shifting calendar provide the Hindu

Samaj? The FLOATING AYANAMSHAS in vogue today, which bear no sanction in the

Veda, are anything but stable and constant. Each second that passes of our Earth

time causes that distant sidereal point light-years away to change position,

thereby making that Ayanamsha with each passing second inoperable and

inapplicable for any ritual. If the pundit is sincere to his trade, he must know

this. He must know that yesterday's Ayanamsha cannot be held today as valid

because IT HAS SHIFTED IN THE HEAVENS, perhaps slightly, but shifted it has.

Today it is not

where it was yesterday. And if we add to this the complete impossibility to

determine just where and what that Ayanamsha might be, then we understand why

there is total confusion among the ranks of the pundits. And Hinduism suffers an

increasing

deterioration accordingly, with each ritual that propagates this illusion.

 

  Absolutism of the eternal Dharma lies within our grasp if we take the same

Journey the Veda pre-scribes, poised on the immutable four Cardinal Points: the

March Equinox - Cosmic Dawn; the June Solstice - Cosmic Midnight; the September

Equinox - Cosmic Sunset; and last but best of all, the December Solstice -

Cosmic Midday or Uttarayana, the highest position of the Sun whereby as a single

Ray (the lost Sun hidden by Vritra) it descends to the Earth casting no shadows.

And therefore it is known as the period of Victory for the Aryan Warrior; or, in

the larger cycles of time, as the Golden Age, the Satya

Yuga.

    We need to understand the 'seed' nature of the Makar Sankranti and how it

can be said that this is an experience of both the Earth, the individual and of

the collective Hindu Samaj, all simultaneously on that very special Solstice..

This is understood when we realise that Time itself is compressed to a seed at

the De-cember Solstice. The 'shortest day of the year' has no other factual

significance for inhabitants of our special planet than this: compression to a

point, compaction to a seed. The light of the Sun, those divine Cows/Rays, is

compressed to this point-experience of Time when its measure reaches the

extremes of itself [the Solstice or SHORTEST day of the year]. And then when the

[Makar] Sankranti is observed with the right 'combination' - the right harmony

of the Earth to the Ecliptic - the entire Hindu Samaj connects itself through

this 'seed-point' to the replenishing Source from which it originally sprang.

Today

as in aeons gone by,

it can drink once again of the waters the Goddess Mahasaraswati benignly

releases abroad upon the world. “Thea†Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet, THE MAKAR

SANKRANTI - Winter Solstice  

 

RE Wilkinson

 

-

Sunil Bhattacharjya

waves-vedic

Cc: robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com ; vedicscience@ rediffmail. com ; atlantavedictemple@

gmail.com ; hinducivilization ; deenbc ;

jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com ; harimalla@rocketmai l.com

Tuesday, February 24, 2009 8:54 PM

Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

 

Namaste R....E.Wilkinsonji,

 

Namaste,

 

You wrote as follows:

 

Quote

 

What you write is very interesting indeed but it fails to grasp the underlying

truth of the Makar Sankranti and the Capricorn Gateway. Because of this, your

conclusions regarding the Makar Sankranti and Winter Solstice, the Sayana and

Nirayana systems are completely incorrect.

 

unquote

 

On the contrary you have not understood the difference between the significance

of Makara Sankranti and that of Uttarayana. You have referred to Sri Aurobindo.

Starting from the day when Lele taught him how to meditate he did advance to

high level of thought. But all that Sri Aurobindo said are not to be taken

blindly. He said that the Mahabharata war took place in 1190 BCE and we now know

that he was wrong from the archaeological evidence itself as the

river Saraswati dried up much before 1190 BCE and that at the time of the

Mahabharata war it was flowing and Balarama's going to the Saraswati is

mentioned in the Mahabharata. .

 

You have quoted from the Rig Veda. Agreed that Brahmanaspati

(Brihaspati)  did make the knowledge appear (or known) that the certain

eternal worlds came into being, which open their doors with moons ( bright and

dark fortnights) and autumns (seasons) and that these (the eternal worlds) move

effortlessly from one to another, but it did not link up the Makar Rashi with

any season. In the Chapter 8 of the Bhagavad Gita Lord Krishna describes the

path by which the yogi, who has known the Brahman departs. Lord Krishna also

describes the path by which the yogi, who is disciplined but has not realised

Brahman, goes. Other sources such as the Chandogya Upanishad, Baudhayana smriti,

Shiva gita and  Kurma purana give details of these aspects but nowhere they

have linked up Makar Sankranti with Uttarayana. Different ancient texts,

composed at different time periods,  mention  a particular season occurring

at different Nakshatras which shows that the seasons

are not tied to the

Nakshatras and as the Winter season starts with the Uttarayana so also the

Uttarayana should also be not linked to any Nakshatra or Rashi. Makar Sankramana

is about Sankramana of the Makar rashi.  As I said before that for nearly

twenty two  centuries the Uttarayana did take place in the Makar Rashi. but we

have to live in the present situation when the Uttarayana does not occur in the

Makar Rashi. If you have any doubt abiout the real meaning of rashi, please go

to my last mail.

 

Let the truth prevail. It is not late for the astrologers, who did not know

this, to correct themselves and recognise that Winter Solstice need not be

linked up with the Makar Sankramana.

 

Regards,

 

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

 

 

 

--- On Tue, 2/24/09, Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com> wrote:

 

Robert E.... Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>

Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE:

Fwd: An Important Matter

sunil_bhattacharjya @

Cc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com, HinduCalendar@

. com, hinducivilization, waves-vedic@ .

com, deenbc , jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com, harimalla@rocketmai l.com

Tuesday, February 24, 2009, 9:16 AM

 



 

Namaste Sunil K. Bhattacharjya- ji

 

What you write is very interesting indeed but it fails to grasp the underlying

truth of the Makar Sankranti and the Capricorn Gateway. Because of this, your

conclusions regarding the Makar Sankranti and Winter Solstice, the Sayana and

Nirayana systems are completely incorrect. These are matters of Veda, obtained

through Shruti as you mentioned. But in order to secure a higher

understanding of these important matters we must go back to the Vedic

scriptures themselves.

 

As a matter of curiosity, How many of you on this study group have even read Sri

Aurobindo’s  “Secret of the Veda� If this group is truly about Vedic

Studies, we must get serious about it and go directly to the source.  That

said, there is no better authority on the Veda than Sri Aurobindo. He has

plainly stated that the Vedas are the oldest extant spiritual scriptures on

earth. Its name, “Veda†-  the Knowledge, is the received name for the

highest spiritual truth of which the human mind is capable. Over the millennia

however this high knowledge became lost or corrupted. “As the Veda had passed

from the sage to the priest, wrote Sri Aurobindo, so now it began to pass from

the hands of the priest into the hands of the scholar. And in that keeping it

suffered the last mutilation of its sense and the last diminution of its

true dignity and sanctity.†What we are seeing today on WAVES is a

continuation of that mutilation and diminution…

not through scholars, but through self-important pseudo-scholars like Yeshu

Rathenam who are given free rein to post comments that the Veda are a

“worthless set of books. This has to stop!

 

 

 

Among the many secrets of the Veda given by the ancient sages, are precise

instructions, yogic techniques, the goal of which is to help us ascend beyond

our mortal mentality to the luminous truth of our being on the spiritual plane

of our existence. The Rishis are quite plain spoken on this account. The secret

of secrets, the greatest mystery of the Veda is a supremely enlightened state

“Swar†which results from a perfect alignment of the individual with the

twelve months of the sacrificial year.  

 

 

 

" Certain eternal worlds are these which have come into being, their doors are

shut to you (or

opened) by the months and the years. Without effort one world moves in the

other, and it is these that Brihaspati has made manifest to knowledge " Rig

Veda   (II.24.5)

 

 

 

These secret eternal worlds have been closed to us by our misperception of the

movement of time. The months and the years, therefore have to be re-discovered

and created in us by that same power. This, says the Rishi, is the mightiest

work, the fairest achievement and it hinges on the conquest of time.

 

 

 

“The Vedic idea was that the subconscient darkness and the ordinary life of

ignorance held concealed in it all that belongs to the divine life and that

these secret riches must be recovered first by destroying the impenitent powers

of ignorance and then by possessing the lower life subjected to the higher.â€

Sri Aurobindo, Secret of the Veda (p. 238)

 

 

 

What we are interested in writes Sri Aurobindo, is the

process by which one is able to release the soul’s light and come to know

and live the higher stages of the journey and in so doing, developing ‘the

unity of the nine-rayed and the ten-rayed seers who by the utter thought of the

soul, by the word that illumines broke open the fortified pens ...'  This then

is the Vedic sacrifice: ‘ a journey; indeed the sacrifice itself is described

as travelling, as journeying to a divine goal; and the journey and the sacrifice

are continually spoken of as a battle against the dark powers.' Ibid, (p. 183)

 

 

 

 '. .... . the possession of our complete divine consciousness delivered from

all falsehood by the free descent of the truth, gives us the secure possession

of the world of Swar and the enjoyment of mental and physical being lifted into

the godhead above the darkness, falsehood and death by the in-streaming of our

divine elements. This victory is won in twelve

periods of the upward journey, represented by the revolution of the twelve

months of the sacrificial year, the periods corresponding to the successive

dawns of a wider and wider truth, until the tenth secures the victory. What may

be the precise significance of the nine rays and the ten, is a more difficult

question which we are not yet in a position to solve*. But the light we have

already is sufficient to illuminate all the main imagery of the Rig Veda..' Ibid

(p. 182)

 

 

 

In his Secret of the Veda, Sri Aurobindo described these worlds of Swar as

“Godheads†but it was not until the cosmological discoveries made by

“Thea†Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet that these symbols, Vedic “godheads†of

“the nine rays and the ten†were revealed to be synonymous with and

referring to the 9th and 10th months of the cosmic year: Sagittarius and

Capricorn. And, according to the Rishi, it is in the Tenth Month (CAPRICORN)

that the final

Victory is achieved. It is for this reason and none other that the Makar

Sankranti, the Capricorn Gateway, is the most important ritual date in the Hindu

Calendar. Perhaps you will now understand why it is so important that the true

Makar Sankranti (Winter Solstice) be observed on 21 December and not 14 January.

 

 

 

In the service of Truth,

 

 

 

RE Wilkinson

 

-

Sunil Bhattacharjya

Robert E. Wilkinson

Monday, February 23, 2009 7:47 PM

Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

 

Dear Robert E. wilkinsonji,

 

Namaste,

 

The astrologers like AKK show concern at Makar Sankranti being observed about

three weeks after the Winter Solstice but they never care to know what is the

true meaning of the Makar Sankranti. Makar is the Makar rashi and Sankranti

means the act of Sankraman or intrusion. So Makar Sankranti

has to when the Sun enters the Makar Rashi. AKK and others never care to know

why Makar Rashi is considered important. Shravana nakshatra is in the Makar

rashi and this is Nakshatra ruled by Shri Hari. Shravana and Shruti has the same

origin and Shruti is the Veda. Shravana is considered asthe Nakshatra of the

Veda-Mata Saraswati. Before Abhijit Nakshatra, whose ruler is Brahmaa, moved

away to become the Pole-star, Abhijit used to be a Nakshatra in the makar

rashi. Appropriately Makar rashi was called the Brahma rashi in the

Mahabharata.  Astrologically also the Makar Rashi is considered to be Rashi of

Bharatvarsha. Thus the Makar Rashi has a unique position and

the Sun's entry into the Makar Rashi is an important event. Thus the Makar

Sankranti has been and will be observed when the Sun enters the Makar Rashi.

 

Now it is also true that at one time the Winter Solstice did take place in

the Makar

Rashi  for close to twenty two centuries. Even the latitudinal line at the

point of the Winter Solstice had begun to be called as the Makar Rekha or the

Tropic of Capricorn and this was appropriate only as long as the Wlnter

Solstice occurred in the true Makar Rashi. So AKK and others think that Makar

Sankranti and Winter Solstice are synonymous, forgetting that this can only

happen only for close to twenty two centuries at a time and then wait for close

to twenty four Millennia for that to reoccur. This is not to say that

the Winter Solstice has no importance. The Tropical Calendar cannot do

without the recognising the Winter Solstice. So the Tropical calendar has to

learn to coexist with the Sidereal calendar. If those who want to observe the

Winter Solstice as the Uttarayana day can observe it by all means. So let us

have one additional festival

day on

the Uttarayana day for those who want to onserve that rather than trying to

annul the Makar Sankranti festival on the day when the Sun enters the Makar

Rashi.

 

Regards,

 

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

 

 

 

 

--- On Mon, 2/23/09, Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com> wrote:

 

Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>

Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

sunil_bhattacharjya @, harimalla@rocketmai l.com

Cc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com, HinduCalendar@

. com, hinducivilization, waves-vedic@ .

com, deenbc , jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com

Monday, February 23, 2009, 7:55 AM

 

Namaste Hari

Mala-ji,

Thank you for your response and the interesting information about the Makar.

 

You bring up some interesting points in your letter which I feel the need to

address in some detail. Let me begin with your request that those of us

interested in Calendar Reform do this through a " concerted effort and if

possible without changing any of the current practices and by not insisting on

any particular method. It is your belief that this would be the best type of

reform and acceptable to most " .

 

I am sure you have the best of intentions but your reply reveals exactly what is

WRONG with the general attitude surrounding these important matters. Let me

explain:

 

First, it is virtually impossible to reform the calendar through a concerted

effort given the wide gaps in understanding evidenced by these discussions on

WAVES..  I agree with you that Dr. Arya is worthy of praise but, in my opinion,

the scholarship of Krishen Kaul and

Yeshu Rathenam does not rise to that level. Nevertheless you would prefer that

we find an inclusive solution, without changing the current practices and

acceptable to most. In other words you would be comfortable with some kind of

compromise that doesn’t rock the boat. You are evidently unaware that when it

comes to matters of Higher Truth and the cosmological absolutes that the Veda

prescribes, compromise is simply not an option. What is required is credible

LEADERSHIP that can expose the fallacious logic that so often passes for wisdom

on this discussion group. What I find simply unbelievable is that many of the

members of WAVES, people who supposedly have some knowledge of the Veda,

accept the pretentious posturing of AKK as gospel while virtually ignoring the

authoritative statements of Veda masters like Sri Aurobindo, “Theaâ€

Patrizia-Norelli- Bachelet and Swami Dayananda Saraswati.  No discrimination is

made between the opinions of

scholars and the direct knowledge of the sage. Naturally this results in an

environment of mass confusion out of which true Calendar Reform cannot emerge.

 

And what is the result? One of the esteemed leaders of a Vedic Temple in the US

reads what I have written on calendar reform and, not being a Sanskritist or

Jyotish scholar himself, he writes and asks AKK to set him straight out of his

vast experience and knowledge. Here is someone who holds a position of trust and

leadership in the religious community, responsible for the spiritual guidance of

others, and he has no understanding of these important matters. I have written

him on several occasions to ask for a fair hearing but, because of his faith in

AKK, I have not received even the courtesy of a reply. So this man, having

placed his confidence in a person of no realization and preferring not to

rock the boat, returns to his flock and leads them on a path of Adharma rather

than

make a sincere effort to establish what is and is not the truth of the Veda.

Now multiply this by tens of thousands and you have some idea of the problem we

must overcome to

re-establish the Sanatana Dharma. 

 

So to answer your question, No! we cannot give in to compromise. No! we cannot

continue the current Nirayana practices and Yes!, we must insist on the method

laid down in the Veda if we are to have any meaningful reform of the Calendar.

 

As for the names of the temples in India that have embraced the beginnings of

Calendar reform, you will find them listed on my website http://www.vediccos

mology.com.

 

In the service of truth,

 

RE Wilkinson

 

 

 

 

Checked by AVG.

Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1967 - Release Date:

2/23/2009 7:17 AM

 

 

Checked by AVG.

Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1967 - Release 2/23/2009 7:17

AM

 

 

[Guest guest]

Just tell me why then Sankara wrote his first Bhashya on Vishnusahasranama? Why did he write Bhaja Govindam? Why did he write Prabodha Sudhakar? Why did he write a bhashya on Bhagavda Gita instead of writing one on Shiva Gita? Who told you that Sankara invented anything? Everything was in the Vedas and Upanishads. He explained difficult texts through his bhashya. You who is dismissing Advaita etc. as just high sounding words should leave these subjects alone as these are beyond your grasp. --- On Thu, 3/5/09, yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 wrote:yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004Re: Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Mattersunil_bhattacharjya,

waves-vedic Cc: robtw, vedicscience, atlantavedictemple, deenbc, jyotirved, harimalla,

, Date: Thursday, March 5, 2009, 12:16 AM

Sankara’s interpretation of mythological texts gave a new life to decadent Hinduism. The peculiar classical neo-Brahmanical soteriology developed almost completely in the name of Siva. Sankaracharya proposed a monistic reform in a grand style, with the conscious intention of fighting the heterodox Buddhist and Jainist monastic orders. Sankara was a Saivite. The Brahmins succeeded in concealing the alcoholic and sexual orgiastic character of the adoration of the phallus (siva lingam) and transformed it into a pure ritualistic temple cult. But in the eleventh century, Ramanuja challenged Sankara’s views. There is nothing new or extraordinary in Sankara’s or Ramanuja’s thoughts. Both stress the fact that the escape for the soul

is by total detachment from worldly pleasures. Even an uneducated jungle tribal knows that to attain liberation one has to perform tapas. Today’s fourth standard student with a broad syllabus in science, mathematics, geography, computer and history has more knowledge than Sankara or Ramanuja. They are in today’s standard mere wandering fakirs and their thoughts ridiculous. None is concerned primarily with ethics (like Christianity), but both seek freedom from bondage through deeds to rebirth.

 

 

 

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjyawaves-vedic ; yeshu2004Cc: robtw; vedicscience; atlantavedictemple; deenbc; jyotirved; harimalla; ; Sent: Wednesday, March 4, 2009 3:30:18 AMFw: Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Shiv umesh rathenamji,Namaste,It appears that you have difficulty in grasping that there is a difference between recitation and comprehension. Adi Sankaracharya has not asked anybody not to pray to God. If Adi Sankaracharya's teachings are beyond your comprehension you can leave it. I am sure you are not in this forum simply to condemn the Indian seers and the Indian philosophy but to understand them. It appears that you have formed your opinion already. Do as you feel proper for you. BTW do you know Sanskrit and have you read any of Adi Sankaracharya's work in Sanskrit?--- On Tue, 3/3/09, yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 wrote:

yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Mattersunil_bhattacharjyaDate: Tuesday, March 3, 2009, 8:02 AM

 

 

Nameste Sunilji

 

The high sounding Samskrit words 'dvaita', 'vishistadvaita', and 'advaita' have been easily recited even by illiterate tribes who call their God supreme and look upon their god as one invisible or the one visible in matter. The high sounding samskrit word 'paramatma' is a supreme god of a tribal. What is known is made complicated by Sankara and what is practised by all in every part of the world is made unknown by Sankara and others and thereby prohibiting non-Brahmins to know about the Brahmin Samskrit mantra. It has all emanated from mythology and legends. It is high time Sunilji realized the truth and turn to the real God.

 

 

 

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjyayeshu rathenam <yeshu2004Tuesday, March 3, 2009 11:21:38 AMRe: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

 

 

 

Shiv umesh rathenamji,Valiant attempt to understand Hindu scriptures. Everybody does not have the receptive capacity to understand the Vedas. Vedavyasa realised this and he said in the beginning of the Bhagavat purana that he composed the Mahabharata for those uninitiated, who could not understand the higher truths (of the Vedas). In Mahabharata, through the anecdotes, he tried do this to his best. Then he found he did not succeed in simplifying it enough and he was very sad. Then another rishi Narada advised him to compose the Bhagavat purana so that everybody could understand. So if you really want to understand the tenets of Hinduism better read the Bhagavat Purana.The concepts od Dvaita, Visishtadvaita and Advaita will be difficult for you to understand. You will also not understand what Lord Krishna said regarding the idol worship: "Pratimaa alpabuddhinaam, Sarvatra samadarshinaam".Please do not try to date

the

events of Indian history. You will find it difficult. Adi Sankaracharya was born in 509 BCE and that was (509 - 4 =) 505 years before Jesus Christ was born. Hope you will succeed Hinduism fast. Your name, at the first sight, suggested that you are not a Hindu. It is your prerogative to have whatever name you want to have or could it be by any chance your parents kept it like that and you have no hand in that. Best wishes,Sunil K. Bhattacharjya--- On Mon, 3/2/09, yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 wrote:

yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter"Sunil Bhattacharjya" <sunil_bhattacharjya, waves-vedic Cc: robtw, vedicscience, atlantavedictemple, deenbc, jyotirved, harimalla, , Date: Monday, March 2, 2009, 9:10 PM

 

 

 

A careful reading of Hindu literature will reveal that the Puranas, the Vedas, the Ramayana and Mahabharata sanctioned idolatry, polytheism, caste, burning of widows and many other abominations.. Indians, at the time of the arrival of the British, had three hundred and thirty millions of gods.. In the Vedas also we see the beginning of natural worship, similar to all tribes in other parts of the world. Nature-worship is the worship of natural objects without any conscious attempt to personalize them. Thus when a river such as the Nile or Ganges was worshipped, it was not the god of the river who received veneration but the ‘divine water’ itself. Later such objects were specifically deified giving rise to polytheism.. But we are being brainwashed for centuries to believe that the Vedas are the ultimate authoritative scripture for one to pursue the spiritual path to realize God. Badrayana has

reinterpreted

the Vedas after heavily borrowing ideas from Buddhism and Christianity But a casual reading of the Rig Veda will reveal to us that there are large portions in it which have hardly any connection with religion at all, but they are interesting all the same as relics of antiquity. As for example, this line from Rig Veda:

With bow let us wine kine, with Bow the battle, with Bow be victors in our hot encounters.â€

So it a cry for battle to win cows and enemy by using the bow. In original Sanskrit, the Rig Veda does not have poetic verses. But the European translators have followed poetic rules and arranged the primitive Rig Veda by following rhyme and rhythm of English poetry.They have also coined their own words and phrases to give a poetic style to the primitive Rig Veda

 

.. The Mahabharata, like all primitive epics of the world, is mythical in nature. Originally, the Mahabharata was a popular ballad about the war between the Kurus and the Pandus. Kunti, a daughter of the Yadava clan, was carried away by a barbarian named Pandu and the five Pandava brothers were born of this illegitimate connection. The mythical origin of the five Pandava brothers and the story of the birth of Dhritarashtra and Pandu prove illegitimacy. Repeated indoctrination by Brahmin fanatics has made us to worship the characters in this mythology, as we idealize Shakespearean characters like Hamlet or Juliet. In the battlefield the first thing to do after elaborate preparation the previous day is to attack the enemy. But here there is a twist and Arjuna is made to ask what is right and wrong, and Krishna is made to use the battlefront to teach him karma,

jnana and bhakti. It is clear proof that it an interpolation at a later date. Sankara has reinterpreted Bhagavad-Gita by incorporating into it the essence of Christianity and Buddhism. Sankara was born 800 years after the birth of Jesus. So the Bhagavad-Gita is Sankara’s teaching and not Krishna ’s.. In Greek mythology, Zeus is the father of gods and men, and most powerful of the immortals. He was worshipped as the sky-deity, whose presence was marked by lightning, thunder and rain. Greeks worshipped these mythological gods and goddesses for centuries. Even great intellectuals like Socrates, Plato and Aristotle worshipped these mythological gods and goddesses as we worship gods and goddesses of Indian mythology. The Greeks had experienced miracles in battles, thereby showing the power of the devil. Once the Greeks found the real God they discarded the gods and goddesses of their mythology. It is indeed

a lesson for us.

S.U..Rathenam - shiv umesh rathenam -- (yeshu ratnenam)

 

 

 

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjyawaves-vedic Cc: yeshu2004; robtw; vedicscience; atlantavedictemple; deenbc; jyotirved; harimalla; ; Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 6:11:24 AMRe: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

 

 

 

 

Your name is Yaeshu Ruthenam and you claim to come from a Hindu priestly family. Did you by any chance adopt this name after convesion to Christianity?

 

You have not given any evidence from history to prove that the Mahabharata is a mythology. Mahabharata, being an epic, has stories to convey the Vedic truths to the masses through the medium of stories but it is also an Itihasa or History and the scholars can find the historical information from that. It seems that you do not know the meaning of Itihasa. You have only made false assertions that The mahabharata is all mythology and want to get away with that without giving any concrete reference. As you do not know the difference between assertion and concrete evidence it is not worth pursuing any discussion with you.

 

The festival on December 25, in Constantine's own religion prior to his adopting Christianity for political reasons, was to celebrate the birth of the Sun on the day following the Winter Solstice on December 24 of that year. He made it compulsory to observe that day as the Christmas day in order to glorify Jesus Christ, even though Jesus Christ was not born on December. So you are not aware of the importance given to Winter Solstice in the West in the ancient times.

 

 

 

 

 

--- On Fri, 2/27/09, yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 wrote:

yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Mattersunil_bhattacharjyaDate: Friday, February 27, 2009, 11:42 PM

 

 

I too come from a Hindu priestly class. But I am an egalitarian. I have already given enough evidences from history to prove the Mahabharata is a mythology. About your question about Christmas, I am to state the following:

 

While gods and goddesses of legends and mythology are assumed to be real, how can you call historic and real god Jesus a myth? December 25 was celebrated as the birthday of Jesus by his family, disciples and the first Church -- the Jerusalem Church.. December 25 was observed the birthday of Jesus in all the churches in Asia Minor. It was only later Christianity was taken to the West by Paul. The West was totally hostile to Christianity which spread the message of love, peace and kindness. The early Christians were persecuted in Rome. Several thousands of Christians were killed by the

Roman

Emperors. But in 312 when Emperor Constantine was fighting in Gaul, he had to face a powerful army. His travel-weary soldiers were not having courage and strength to meet the challenge of a far larger force ranging back from the city walls from a bend in the Tiber. Fear gripped the Emperor. It was at that time he saw a great light in the sky in the form of a cross, bearing the inscription Hoc signo vinces (In this sign you will conquer). In the battle Constantine won a miraculous victory. Later Constantine became a Christian. Christianity –

the

persecuted and hated religion --- became the official religion of Rome. December 25 was officially proclaimed the birth date of Jesus after ascertaining from the early church in Jerusalem. But in Rome it coincided with the pagan festival of Solinvictus. That is why this confusion arose. Since Christianity encourages free thought and criticism, unlike Hinduism and Islam, this coincidence of date has been fully exploited by atheists and secular humanists. They even deny the holocaust which happened in the 20th. Century. Will they spare Christmas of the First century?

 

Long before we heard about Moscow, New Delhi, London, Washington and Beijing, King David had founded Jerusalem as capital of Israel. But even today, in the 21st century, Jerusalem is still in the news. Bethlehem where Jesus was born is a hot spot today.. The future of the world will be decided in Jerusalem. Whether it is Putin or Obama, the fate of the world hinges on the decision the world powers will be making on Jerusalem. These events were predicted by Jesus 2000 years ago, and they are happening today, including the economic crises and the nations of the world converging on Jerusalem before the launch of III World War. So Jesus is not a myth but a living God, according to Christians. Let us see how world events unfold according to the prediction of Jesus.

 

 

 

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjyayeshu rathenam <yeshu2004Friday, February 27, 2009 2:35:35 PMRe: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

 

 

 

 

Namaste Ruthenamji,

 

Please give supporting data with concrete references and not just your imaginative assertions, which have no value at all. I am a Hindu. Can you please let know your religious affiliation too. However if you have any reservation in telling that please let me know and also let me know how much you know about your own scriptures, before dabbling in others'.

 

In your last letter you were talking vehemently about Winter Solstice. In that connection I asked to find out why December 25 was chosen as the Christmas day. Now you seem to be evading that completely. What type of scholarship is this? Reputed western scholars do not do like this. --- On Fri, 2/27/09, yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 wrote:

yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Mattersunil_bhattacharjya, waves-vedic , "Robert E. Wilkinson" <robtwCc: vedicscience, atlantavedictemple, deenbc, jyotirved, harimalla, robtw, , Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 12:20 AM

 

 

Namaste Bhattacharjyaji

 

...

Although tradition holds that an ancient sage called Vyasa wrote the Mahabharata, it was almost certainly composed by a number of different poets and then collected into a single work sometime between 300 B.C. and A.D. 350. The epic reached its present form about 200 years later. It contains nearly 100,000 verses and is divided into 18 sections called parvans. It consists of many legends and tales revolving around the conflicts between two branches of a mythical family. The stories involve deities, demigods, and heroes. Some people foolishly argue that these legends contain elements of cosmology, philosophy, and religious doctrine Cosmology is

a set

of ideas about the origin, history, and structure of the universe, and the imaginary claim of Aurobindo and others borders on insanity. They foolishly claim without any scientific evidence that the Mahabharata belongs to the Dvapar Yuga. Cosmology proves that the Ramayana is much older than the Mahabharata. It does not go beyond the Vindhyas. However, in the case of the Mahabharata, the whole of India was known and the rulers from the south also came to participate in the Mahabharata war. Paninini mentions Vasudeve, Arjuna and Yudhisthira. The Pandavas are not known to the Brhamanas. It is clear from these facts that Vyasa alone did not write the Mahaabharata. It is also quite evident from these facts that the Mahabharata is based on mythology and its heroes and heroines are not historical figures.

 

 

A section of the epic called the Bhagavad Gita is the most important religious text of Hinduism. But it was introduced at a later stage by the Gupta rulers to thwart the growing tide of Buddhism. It was interwoven by borrowing ideas from Buddhism and Christianity to give the Mahabharata the image of a religious text. There were Greek satrapies in India before Kanishka came to power. There were Indian ambassadors in the courts of Roman Emperors Augustus, Trajan, Hadrian, Constantine , Julian and Justinian. There was a flourishing Indian population permanently settled in Alexandria . The first Gupta ruler, Chandra Gupta I came to power in 319 A.D. But 300 years before the Guptas came to power, St.Thomas was in the court of Gondopharnes, and from the northwest, Thomas spread the message of Jesus to many in the northern region and finally came to Mylapore and Kerala.

Although, the Mahabharata is a war literature, the religious part in the epic was later appended by the Gupta kings by heavily borrowing from Christianity and Buddhism.

 

 

 

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjyawaves-vedic Cc: yeshu2004; vedicscience; atlantavedictemple; deenbc; jyotirved; harimalla; robtw; ; Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 10:00:59 AM[WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry Ruthenamji,

 

There is a typo...

 

Please read the sentence "Hindus believe in one God but respecting the superiors are looked down upon by them." as "Hindus believe in one God but respecting the superiors are not looked down upon by them."

 

Regards,

 

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya--- On Wed, 2/25/09, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @> wrote:

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @> Re: Fw: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matterwaves-vedicCc: yeshu2004 , vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com, deenbc , jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com, harimalla@rocketmai l.com, robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com, , ancient_indian_ astrologyWednesday, February 25, 2009, 8:09 PM

 

 

Dear Shri Ruthenamji, You wrote : Quote The Veda, the Mahabharata war and all Sanskrit literature were brought to light by European scholars. It is cnfirmed that the Mahabharata war was a sheer myth. Unquote I know that European scholars translated the Veda and the Epics into English as they valued these and they wanted their own people to read them and that was a favour to themselves. Indians had these in Sanskrit as well as in their vernacular languages.1)Do you know that till the year 1882 the King James version of the Bible gave the year of creation as 4004 BCE, whereas the Indian texts, which you are condemning without any substantiation, gave the age of the earth as several billion years, which is the same as what the modern science says.?2)Do you know yourself as to why and from when the Christmas began to be celebrated

on December 25 when Jesus Christ himself was born on an earlier month and his year of birth is also on 4 BCE? You should know it first before you say anything about the Winter Solstice. Can you substantiate your statement that the Mahabharata war was a myth and that no such war took place at all? The Indians know how to interpret their ancient texts. The Puranas and Epics are historical texts called Itihasas, interspersed with stories and anecdotes in order to give out the Vedic truths to the masses, through them. You also said : Quote Similarly, the Vedas written by primitive people and like all primitive societies they pray to god for food, health and victory in the war. Unquote The gods in Hinduism, Buddhism (like Tara, amd Manjushri) and Jainism are like the angels of the Semitic religion. Hindus believe that they are

superior beings and they are also created by God and that they are at a higher evolutionary step than we are. The Quran also did not say that one should not seek favour from the angels. Even prophet Muhammad was complaining to the Archangel Gabriel about the latter's coming late...... to him. Hindus believe in one God but respecting the superiors are looked down upon by them. May be you do not know how to respect your superiors.. The Vedas cannot be understood by everybody and you are one of them. However if you wish to learn these then you have to go to a guru with due respect and he will teach you provided he finds you worthy of that. As regards Wilkinsonji' s mail I have replied to that in a separate mail.. Regards, Sunil K. Bhattacharjya--- On Wed, 2/25/09, yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 > wrote:yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 >Fw: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Mattersunil_bhattacharjya @, waves04@ .comCc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, "atlanta vedic" <atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com>, "hinc liz"

<hinducivilization>, deenbc (AT) hotmail (DOT) com, harimalla@rocketmai l.comWednesday, February 25, 2009, 6:38 PM----- Forwarded Message ----yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 >Robert E... Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>Thursday, February 26, 2009 8:02:06 AMRe: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An

Important Matter"\the March Equinox - Cosmic Dawn; the June Solstice - Cosmic Midnight; the September Equinox - Cosmic Sunset; and last but best of all, the December Solstice - Cosmic Midday or Uttarayana, the highest position of the Sun whereby as a single Ray (the lost Sun hidden by Vritra) it descends to the Earth casting no shadows" It is all nonsense that you are writing. The Veda, the Mahabharata war and all Sanskrit literature were brought to light by European scholars. It is cnfirmed that the Mahabharata war was a sheer myth. Then how can you try to fix the date? Similarly, the Vedas written by primitive people and like all primitive societies they pray to god for food, health and victory in the war. It is sheer madness to claim philosophy and science in the primittive works.Robert E.. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT)

com>sunil_bhattacharjya @; waves-vedicCc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com; atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com; hinducivilization; deenbc ; jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com; harimalla@rocketmai l.comWednesday, February 25, 2009 9:01:08 PMRe:

[WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter Namaste Sunil K. Bhattacharj- ji Thank you for your reply. If you would be so kind, please provide me with the exact citation where Sri Aurobindo discusses the date of the Mahabharata war. The root of your error is plainly evident. When you write that, “…for nearly twenty two centuries the Uttarayana did take place in the Makar Rashi. but we have to live in the present situation when the Uttarayana does not occur in the Makar Rashi†, you are basing your conclusions on the Nirayana Sidereal system of calendar

measure with its irregular Constellations and shifting ayanamsha. This is not only unreliable and confusing but worst of all it is un-Vedic. It directly contradicts the verses in the Rig Veda that describe “One wheel of three-hundred and sixty spokes, firmly riveted, that shake not in the least.†This ‘One Wheel’ is the eternal and unchanging Tropical zodiac or Sayana system used by the Rishis to precisely measure the Earth in its yearly passage around the ecliptic as well as a corresponding movement in the individual. The errors of the Nirayana system, to which you evidently , arose with the hegemony ofscientific relativism into the realm of the sacred when the astronomer usurped the role of the sage and seer and proclaimed objective astronomical measurement to be the final authority in calendar matters. All that you have written to support your contention that there is no meaningful connection

between Makar Sankranti, the Capricorn Solstice and Uttarayana, the northward journey of Sun is, in the final analysis, a direct contradiction of the Dharma. Open your mind and listen to the words of the world’s leading Seer and Vedic Cosmologist on these important matters: “…We speak glibly of a SANTANA Dharma, the 'eternal' Law. But what sort of eternal law, and consequent stability, can a shifting calendar provide the Hindu Samaj? The FLOATING AYANAMSHAS in vogue today, which bear no sanction in the Veda, are anything but stable and constant. Each second that passes of our Earth time causes that distant sidereal point light-years away to change position, thereby making that Ayanamsha with each passing second inoperable and inapplicable for any ritual. If the pundit is sincere to his trade, he must know this. He must know that yesterday's Ayanamsha cannot be held today as valid because IT HAS SHIFTED IN THE HEAVENS, perhaps

slightly, but shifted it has. Today it is not where it was yesterday. And if we add to this the complete impossibility to determine just where and what that Ayanamsha might be, then we understand why there is total confusion among the ranks of the pundits. And Hinduism suffers an increasingdeterioration accordingly, with each ritual that propagates this illusion. Absolutism of the eternal Dharma lies within our grasp if we take the same Journey the Veda pre-scribes, poised on the immutable four Cardinal Points: the March Equinox - Cosmic Dawn; the June Solstice - Cosmic Midnight; the September Equinox - Cosmic Sunset; and last but best of all, the December Solstice - Cosmic Midday or Uttarayana, the highest position of the Sun whereby as a single Ray (the lost Sun hidden by Vritra) it descends to the Earth casting no shadows. And therefore it is known as the period of Victory for the Aryan Warrior; or, in the larger cycles of

time, as the Golden Age, the Satya Yuga. We need to understand the 'seed' nature of the Makar Sankranti and how it can be said that this is an experience of both the Earth, the individual and of the collective Hindu Samaj, all simultaneously on that very special Solstice.. This is understood when we realise that Time itself is compressed to a seed at the De-cember Solstice. The 'shortest day of the year' has no other factual significance for inhabitants of our special planet than this: compression to a point, compaction to a seed. The light of the Sun, those divine Cows/Rays, is compressed to this point-experience of Time when its measure reaches the extremes of itself [the Solstice or SHORTEST day of the year]. And then when the [Makar] Sankranti is observed with the right 'combination' - the right harmony of the Earth to the Ecliptic - the entire Hindu Samaj connects itself through this 'seed-point' to the replenishing Source

from which it originally sprang. Today as in aeons gone by,it can drink once again of the waters the Goddess Mahasaraswati benignly releases abroad upon the world. “Thea†Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet, THE MAKAR SANKRANTI - Winter Solstice RE Wilkinson- Sunil Bhattacharjya waves-vedic Cc: robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com ; vedicscience@ rediffmail. com ; atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com ; hinducivilization ; deenbc ; jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com ; harimalla@rocketmai l.com Tuesday, February 24, 2009 8:54 PMRe: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important MatterNamaste R.....E.Wilkinsonji, Namaste, You wrote as follows: Quote What you write is very interesting indeed but it fails to grasp the underlying truth of the Makar Sankranti and the Capricorn Gateway. Because of this, your

conclusions regarding the Makar Sankranti and Winter Solstice, the Sayana and Nirayana systems are completely incorrect.unquote On the contrary you have not understood the difference between the significance of Makara Sankranti and that of Uttarayana. You have referred to Sri Aurobindo. Starting from the day when Lele taught him how to meditate he did advance to high level of thought. But all that Sri Aurobindo said are not to be taken blindly. He said that the Mahabharata war took place in 1190 BCE and we now know that he was wrong from the archaeological evidence itself as the river Saraswati dried up much before 1190 BCE and that at the time of the Mahabharata war it was flowing and Balarama's going to the Saraswati is mentioned in the Mahabharata. . You have quoted from the Rig Veda. Agreed that Brahmanaspati (Brihaspati) did make the knowledge appear (or known) that the certain eternal worlds

came into being, which open their doors with moons ( bright and dark fortnights) and autumns (seasons) and that these (the eternal worlds) move effortlessly from one to another, but it did not link up the Makar Rashi with any season. In the Chapter 8 of the Bhagavad Gita Lord Krishna describes the path by which the yogi, who has known the Brahman departs. Lord Krishna also describes the path by which the yogi, who is disciplined but has not realised Brahman, goes. Other sources such as the Chandogya Upanishad, Baudhayana smriti, Shiva gita and Kurma purana give details of these aspects but nowhere they have linked up Makar Sankranti with Uttarayana. Different ancient texts, composed at different time periods, mention a particular season occurring at different Nakshatras which shows that the seasonsare not tied to the Nakshatras and as the Winter season starts with the Uttarayana so also the Uttarayana should also be

not linked to any Nakshatra or Rashi. Makar Sankramana is about Sankramana of the Makar rashi. As I said before that for nearly twenty two centuries the Uttarayana did take place in the Makar Rashi. but we have to live in the present situation when the Uttarayana does not occur in the Makar Rashi. If you have any doubt abiout the real meaning of rashi, please go to my last mail. Let the truth prevail. It is not late for the astrologers, who did not know this, to correct themselves and recognise that Winter Solstice need not be linked up with the Makar Sankramana. Regards, Sunil K. Bhattacharjya --- On Tue, 2/24/09, Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) . com> wrote:Robert E.... Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Mattersunil_bhattacharjya @Cc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com,

atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com, HinduCalendar, hinducivilization, waves-vedic, deenbc , jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com, harimalla@rocketmai l.comTuesday, February 24, 2009, 9:16 AM Namaste Sunil K. Bhattacharjya- ji What you write is very interesting indeed but it fails to grasp the underlying truth of the Makar Sankranti and the Capricorn Gateway. Because of this, your conclusions regarding the Makar Sankranti and Winter Solstice, the Sayana and Nirayana systems are completely incorrect. These are matters of Veda, obtained through Shruti as you mentioned. But in order to secure a higher understanding of these important matters we must go back to the Vedic scriptures themselves. As a matter of curiosity, How many of you on this study group have even read Sri Aurobindo’s “Secret of the Veda� If this group is truly about Vedic Studies, we

must get serious about it and go directly to the source. That said, there is no better authority on the Veda than Sri Aurobindo. He has plainly stated that the Vedas are the oldest extant spiritual scriptures on earth. Its name, “Veda†- the Knowledge, is the received name for the highest spiritual truth of which the human mind is capable. Over the millennia however this high knowledge became lost or corrupted. “As the Veda had passed from the sage to the priest, wrote Sri Aurobindo, so now it began to pass from the hands of the priest into the hands of the scholar. And in that keeping it suffered the last mutilation of its sense and the last diminution of its true dignity and sanctity.†What we are seeing today on WAVES is a continuation of that mutilation and diminution…not through scholars, but through self-important pseudo-scholars like Yeshu Rathenam who are given free rein to post comments that the Veda are a

“worthless set of books. This has to stop! Among the many secrets of the Veda given by the ancient sages, are precise instructions, yogic techniques, the goal of which is to help us ascend beyond our mortal mentality to the luminous truth of our being on the spiritual plane of our existence. The Rishis are quite plain spoken on this account. The secret of secrets, the greatest mystery of the Veda is a supremely enlightened state “Swar†which results from a perfect alignment of the individual with the twelve months of the sacrificial year. "Certain eternal worlds are these which have come into being, their doors are shut to you (or opened) by the months and the years. Without effort one world moves in the other, and it is these that Brihaspati has made manifest to knowledge" Rig Veda (II.24.5) These secret eternal worlds have been closed to us by our

misperception of the movement of time. The months and the years, therefore have to be re-discovered and created in us by that same power. This, says the Rishi, is the mightiest work, the fairest achievement and it hinges on the conquest of time. “The Vedic idea was that the subconscient darkness and the ordinary life of ignorance held concealed in it all that belongs to the divine life and that these secret riches must be recovered first by destroying the impenitent powers of ignorance and then by possessing the lower life subjected to the higher.†Sri Aurobindo, Secret of the Veda (p. 238) What we are interested in writes Sri Aurobindo, is the process by which one is able to release the soul’s light and come to know and live the higher stages of the journey and in so doing, developing ‘the unity of the nine-rayed and the ten-rayed seers who by the utter thought of the soul, by the

word that illumines broke open the fortified pens ...' This then is the Vedic sacrifice: ‘ a journey; indeed the sacrifice itself is described as travelling, as journeying to a divine goal; and the journey and the sacrifice are continually spoken of as a battle against the dark powers..' Ibid, (p. 183) '. ..... . the possession of our complete divine consciousness delivered from all falsehood by the free descent of the truth, gives us the secure possession of the world of Swar and the enjoyment of mental and physical being lifted into the godhead above the darkness, falsehood and death by the in-streaming of our divine elements. This victory is won in twelve periods of the upward journey, represented by the revolution of the twelve months of the sacrificial year, the periods corresponding to the successive dawns of a wider and wider truth, until the tenth secures the victory. What may be the precise significance of

the nine rays and the ten, is a more difficult question which we are not yet in a position to solve*. But the light we have already is sufficient to illuminate all the main imagery of the Rig Veda...' Ibid (p. 182) In his Secret of the Veda, Sri Aurobindo described these worlds of Swar as “Godheads†but it was not until the cosmological discoveries made by “Thea†Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet that these symbols, Vedic “godheads†of “the nine rays and the ten†were revealed to be synonymous with and referring to the 9th and 10th months of the cosmic year: Sagittarius and Capricorn. And, according to the Rishi, it is in the Tenth Month (CAPRICORN) that the final Victory is achieved. It is for this reason and none other that the Makar Sankranti, the Capricorn Gateway, is the most important ritual date in the Hindu Calendar. Perhaps you will now understand why it is so important that the true Makar Sankranti (Winter

Solstice) be observed on 21 December and not 14 January. In the service of Truth, RE Wilkinson - Sunil Bhattacharjya Robert E.. Wilkinson Monday, February 23, 2009 7:47 PMRe: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important MatterDear Robert E. wilkinsonji, Namaste, The astrologers like AKK show concern at Makar Sankranti being observed about three weeks after the Winter Solstice but they never care to know what is the true meaning of the Makar Sankranti. Makar is the Makar rashi and Sankranti means the act of Sankraman or intrusion. So Makar Sankranti has to when the Sun enters the Makar Rashi. AKK and others never care to know why Makar Rashi is considered important. Shravana nakshatra is in the Makar rashi and this is Nakshatra ruled by Shri Hari. Shravana and Shruti has the same origin and

Shruti is the Veda. Shravana is considered asthe Nakshatra of the Veda-Mata Saraswati. Before Abhijit Nakshatra, whose ruler is Brahmaa, moved away to become the Pole-star, Abhijit used to be a Nakshatra in the makar rashi. Appropriately Makar rashi was called the Brahma rashi in the Mahabharata. Astrologically also the Makar Rashi is considered to be Rashi of Bharatvarsha. Thus the Makar Rashi has a unique position andthe Sun's entry into the Makar Rashi is an important event. Thus the Makar Sankranti has been and will be observed when the Sun enters the Makar Rashi. Now it is also true that at one time the Winter Solstice did take place in the Makar Rashi for close to twenty two centuries. Even the latitudinal line at the point of the Winter Solstice had begun to be called as the Makar Rekha or the Tropic of Capricorn and this was appropriate only as long as the Wlnter

Solstice occurred in the true Makar Rashi. So AKK and others think that Makar Sankranti and Winter Solstice are synonymous, forgetting that this can only happen only for close to twenty two centuries at a time and then wait for close to twenty four Millennia for that to reoccur. This is not to say that the Winter Solstice has no importance. The Tropical Calendar cannot do without the recognising the Winter Solstice. So the Tropical calendar has to learn to coexist with the Sidereal calendar. If those who want to observe the Winter Solstice as the Uttarayana day can observe it by all means. So let us have one additional festivalday on the Uttarayana day for those who want to onserve that rather than trying to annul the Makar Sankranti festival on the day when the Sun enters the Makar Rashi. Regards, Sunil K. Bhattacharjya --- On

Mon, 2/23/09, Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com> wrote:Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Mattersunil_bhattacharjya @, harimalla@rocketmai l.comCc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com, HinduCalendar, hinducivilization, waves-vedic, deenbc , jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) comMonday, February 23, 2009, 7:55 AMNamaste Hari Mala-ji,Thank you for your response and the interesting information about the Makar. You bring up some interesting points in your letter which I feel the need to address in some detail. Let me begin with your request that those of us interested in Calendar Reform do this through a "concerted effort and if possible without changing any of the current practices and by not insisting on any particular method. It is your belief

that this would be the best type of reform and acceptable to most". I am sure you have the best of intentions but your reply reveals exactly what is WRONG with the general attitude surrounding these important matters.. Let me explain: First, it is virtually impossible to reform the calendar through a concerted effort given the wide gaps in understanding evidenced by these discussions on WAVES... I agree with you that Dr. Arya is worthy of praise but, in my opinion, the scholarship of Krishen Kaul and Yeshu Rathenam does not rise to that level. Nevertheless you would prefer that we find an inclusive solution, without changing the current practices and acceptable to most. In other words you would be comfortable with some kind of compromise that doesn’t rock the boat. You are evidently unaware that when it comes to matters of Higher Truth and the cosmological absolutes that the Veda prescribes, compromise is simply not an option.

What is required is credible LEADERSHIP that can expose the fallacious logic that so often passes for wisdom on this discussion group. What I find simply unbelievable is that many of the members of WAVES, people who supposedly have some knowledge of the Veda,accept the pretentious posturing of AKK as gospel while virtually ignoring the authoritative statements of Veda masters like Sri Aurobindo, “Thea†Patrizia-Norelli- Bachelet and Swami Dayananda Saraswati. No discrimination is made between the opinions of scholars and the direct knowledge of the sage. Naturally this results in an environment of mass confusion out of which true Calendar Reform cannot emerge. And what is the result? One of the esteemed leaders of a Vedic Temple in the US reads what I have written on calendar reform and, not being a Sanskritist or Jyotish scholar himself, he writes and asks AKK to set him straight out of his vast experience and knowledge. Here is

someone who holds a position of trust and leadership in the religious community, responsible for the spiritual guidance of others, and he has no understanding of these important matters. I have written him on several occasions to ask for a fair hearing but, because of his faith in AKK, I have not received even the courtesy of a reply. So this man, having placed his confidence in a person of no realization and preferring not to rock the boat, returns to his flock and leads them on a path of Adharma rather than make a sincere effort to establish what is and is not the truth of the Veda. Now multiply this by tens of thousands and you have some idea of the problem we must overcome tore-establish the Sanatana Dharma. So to answer your question, No! we cannot give in to compromise. No! we cannot continue the current Nirayana practices and Yes!, we must insist on the method laid down in the Veda if we are to have any meaningful

reform of the Calendar. As for the names of the temples in India that have embraced the beginnings of Calendar reform, you will find them listed on my website http://www.vediccos mology.com. In the service of truth, RE Wilkinson Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1967 - Release 2/23/2009 7:17 AMChecked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1967 - Release 2/23/2009 7:17 AM

[Guest guest]

Do

you know Sanskrit to read the Vedas? Have you studied the Vedangas to

read the Vedas? Why do you think that what you said is correct? Can you

substantiate what you said by quoting the exact verses? Mr. Ruthenam

you are caught.You have been evading when you are caught and you change topics everytime. No more replies to you. I gave you the benefit of doubt thinking that you are confused and you need help to understand what is right. But now it appears that you have some hidden agenda.--- On Thu, 3/5/09, yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 wrote:yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Mattersunil_bhattacharjyaCc: atlantavedictemple, sunil_bhattacharjya, waves-vedic , robtw, vedicscience, deenbc, jyotirved, harimalla, , Date: Thursday, March 5, 2009, 12:29 AMRead thoroughly the Vedas. There are innumerable referenced in the Vedas about the sacrifice of cows. After sacrifiing cows, the Vedic Aryans ate beef. They also summoned Indra to share beef and the intoxicating liquour soma.

..

 

 

 

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjyayeshu rathenam <yeshu2004Cc: atlantavedictemple; sunil_bhattacharjya; waves-vedic ; robtw; vedicscience; deenbc; jyotirved; harimalla; ; Sent: Thursday, March 5, 2009 12:48:28 PMRe: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

 

 

 

Lord Buddha on the contrary told the brahmins to try to understand the true meaning of the Vedas.. Lord Buddha quoted from Veda to tell Bimbisara that Vedas did not sanction animal sacrifice. One full chapter of Dhammapada is devoted to brahmin. In fact Lord Buddha said that he would take his next birth in a brahmin family. Dr. Ambedkar's statements are not in consonance with what Lord Buddha said. If you want to contradict Lord Buddha I have no problem but I respect Lord Buddha and I ignore the ones who contradict what Lord Buddha said. You must read about the arguments between Mahatma Gabdhi, the Champion of the the Harijans and Dr. Ambedkar on these issues.Many people think that Dr. Ambedkar hated Hinduism and the brahmins. On the contrary he married a brahmin lady and he remained Hindu till the very end of his life. He got converted to Buddhism only some days before his death. I understand from other members you had a

lot of discussions earlier in this forum before my joining it. Still if you really want to know about Hinduism please do not belligerant as no teacher likes a belligerant student.--- On Wed, 3/4/09, yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 wrote:

yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter"Vedic Temple" <atlantavedictempleCc: "Sunil Bhattacharjya" <sunil_bhattacharjya, waves-vedic , robtw, vedicscience, deenbc, jyotirved, harimalla, , Date: Wednesday, March 4, 2009, 8:07 PM

 

 

It is only after reading Satyarth Prakash, a learned scholar like Dr. Ambedkar has given the following message:

 

I am giving below Dr. B.R.Ambedkar’s views on the Vedas representing the sanatana dharma: “Now the Brahmins have left no room for doubt, for they have propounded a most mischievous dogma which the Brahmins have spread among the masses, is the dogma of the infallibility of the Vedas. If the Hindu intellect has ceased to grow and if the Hindu civilization and culture has become a stagnant and stinking pool, this dogma must be destroyed root and branch if India is to progress. The Vedas are a worthless set of books. There is no reason either to call them sacred or infallible. The Brahmins have invested it with sanctity and infallibility only because by a later interpolation of what is called the Purusha – Sukta, the Vedas have made them the lords of the Earth. Nobody has had the courage to ask why these worthless books

which

contain nothing but invocation to tribal gods to destroy the enemies, loot their property and give it to their followers(have been made sacred and infallible).

But the time has come when the Hindu mind must be freed from the hold which the silly ideas propagated by the Brahmins, are on them. Without this liberation India has no future. I have undertaken this task knowing full well what risk it involves. I am not afraid of consequences. I shall be happy if I succeed in stirring the masses.†Dr. Ambedkar

 

 

 

Vedic Temple <atlantavedictempleyeshu rathenam <yeshu2004Cc: Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya; waves-vedic ; robtw; vedicscience; deenbc; jyotirved; harimalla; ; Sent: Wednesday, March 4, 2009 3:43:01 AMRe: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

 

 

Namastey,

 

Read Styarth Prakash here, to clear some of the confusion.

 

http://www.satyavid ya.org/downloads /cat_view/ 48-satyarth- prakash

 

Also, the link below may be helpful in getting the questions answered.

 

http://www.satyavid ya.org/must- read

 

 

Thanks

 

On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 12:10 AM, yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 > wrote:

 

 

 

 

A careful reading of Hindu literature will reveal that the Puranas, the Vedas, the Ramayana and Mahabharata sanctioned idolatry, polytheism, caste, burning of widows and many other abominations. Indians, at the time of the arrival of the British, had three hundred and thirty millions of gods.. In the Vedas also we see the beginning of natural worship, similar to all tribes in other parts of the world. Nature-worship is the worship of natural objects without any conscious attempt to personalize them. Thus when a river such as the Nile or Ganges was worshipped, it was not the god of the river who received veneration but the ‘divine water’ itself. Later such objects were specifically deified giving rise to polytheism.. But we are being brainwashed for centuries to believe that the Vedas are the ultimate authoritative scripture for one to pursue the spiritual path to realize God. Badrayana has reinterpreted the Vedas after heavily borrowing ideas from

Buddhism and Christianity But a casual reading of the Rig Veda will reveal to us that there are large portions in it which have hardly any connection with religion at all, but they are interesting all the same as relics of antiquity. As for example, this line from Rig Veda:

With bow let us wine kine, with Bow the battle, with Bow be victors in our hot encounters.â€

So it a cry for battle to win cows and enemy by using the bow. In original Sanskrit, the Rig Veda does not have poetic verses. But the European translators have followed poetic rules and arranged the primitive Rig Veda by following rhyme and rhythm of English poetry.They have also coined their own words and phrases to give a poetic style to the primitive Rig Veda

 

.. The Mahabharata, like all primitive epics of the world, is mythical in nature. Originally, the Mahabharata was a popular ballad about the war between the Kurus and the Pandus. Kunti, a daughter of the Yadava clan, was carried away by a barbarian named Pandu and the five Pandava brothers were born of this illegitimate connection. The mythical origin of the five Pandava brothers and the story of the birth of Dhritarashtra and Pandu prove illegitimacy. Repeated indoctrination by Brahmin fanatics has made us to worship the characters in this mythology, as we idealize Shakespearean characters like Hamlet or Juliet. In the battlefield the first thing to do after elaborate preparation the previous day is to attack the enemy... But here there is a twist and Arjuna is made to ask what is right and wrong, and Krishna is made to use the battlefront to teach him karma, jnana and bhakti.

It is clear proof that it an interpolation at a later date. Sankara has reinterpreted Bhagavad-Gita by incorporating into it the essence of Christianity and Buddhism. Sankara was born 800 years after the birth of Jesus. So the Bhagavad-Gita is Sankara’s teaching and not Krishna’s.. In Greek mythology, Zeus is the father of gods and men, and most powerful of the immortals. He was worshipped as the sky-deity, whose presence was marked by lightning, thunder and rain. Greeks worshipped these mythological gods and goddesses for centuries. Even great intellectuals like Socrates, Plato and Aristotle worshipped these mythological gods and goddesses as we worship gods and goddesses of Indian mythology. The Greeks had experienced miracles in battles, thereby showing the power of the devil... Once the Greeks found the real God they discarded the gods and goddesses of their mythology. It is indeed a lesson for us.

S.U..Rathenam - shiv umesh rathenam -- (yeshu ratnenam)

 

 

 

 

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @>waves-vedicCc: yeshu2004 ; robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com; vedicscience@ rediffmail. com; atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com; deenbc ; jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) .com; harimalla@rocketmai l.com; ; ancient_indian_ astrologyMonday, March 2, 2009 6:11:24 AMRe: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your name is Yaeshu Ruthenam and you claim to come from a Hindu priestly family. Did you by any chance adopt this name after convesion to Christianity?

 

You have not given any evidence from history to prove that the Mahabharata is a mythology. Mahabhara ta, being an epic, has stories to convey the Vedic truths to the masses through the medium of stories but it is also an Itihasa or History and the scholars can find the historical information from that. It seems that you do not know the meaning of Itihasa. You have only made false assertions that The mahabharata is all mythology and want to get away with that without giving any concrete reference. As you do not know the difference between assertion and concrete evidence it is not worth pursuing any discussion with you.

 

The festival on December 25, in Constantine's own religion prior to his adopting Christianity for political reasons, was to celebrate the birth of the Sun on the day following the Winter Solstice on December 24 of that year. He made it compulsory to observe that day as the Christmas day in order to glorify Jesus Christ, even though Jesus Christ was not born on December. So you are not aware of the importance given to Winter Solstice in the West in the ancient times.

 

 

 

 

 

--- On Fri, 2/27/09, yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 > wrote:

yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 >Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Mattersunil_bhattacharjya @Friday, February 27, 2009, 11:42 PM

 

 

I too come from a Hindu priestly class. But I am an egalitarian. I have already given enough evidences from history to prove the Mahabharata is a mythology. About your question about Christmas, I am to state the following:

 

While gods and goddesses of legends and mythology are assumed to be real, how can you call historic and real god Jesus a myth? December 25 was celebrated as the birthday of Jesus by his family, disciples and the first Church -- the Jerusalem Church.. December 25 was observed the birthday of Jesus in all the churches in Asia Minor. It was only later Christianity was taken to the West by Paul. The West was totally hostile to Christianity which spread the message of love, peace and kindness. The early Christians were persecuted in Rome. Several thousands of Christians were killed by the Roman Emperors. But in 312 when Emperor Constantine

was

fighting in Gaul, he had to face a powerful army. His travel-weary soldiers were not having courage and strength to meet the challenge of a far larger force ranging back from the city walls from a bend in the Tiber. Fear gripped the Emperor. It was at that time he saw a great light in the sky in the form of a cross, bearing the inscription Hoc signo vinces (In this sign you will conquer). In the battle Constantine won a miraculous victory. Later Constantine became a Christian. Christianity – the persecuted and hated religion --- became the

official

religion of Rome. December 25 was officially proclaimed the birth date of Jesus after ascertaining from the early church in Jerusalem. But in Rome it coincided with the pagan festival of Solinvictus. That is why this confusion arose. Since Christianity encourages free thought and criticism, unlike Hinduism and Islam, this coincidence of date has been fully exploited by atheists and secular humanists. They even deny the holocaust which happened in the 20th. Century. Will they spare Christmas of the First century?

 

Long before we heard about Moscow, New Delhi, London, Washington and Beijing, King David had founded Jerusalem as capital of Israel. But even today, in the 21st century, Jerusalem is still in the

news.

Bethlehem where Jesus was born is a hot spot today.. The future of the world will be decided in Jerusalem. Whether it is Putin or Obama, the fate of the world hinges on the decision the world powers will be making on Jerusalem. These events were predicted by Jesus 2000 years ago, and they are happening today, including the economic crises and the nations of the world converging on Jerusalem before the launch of III World War. So Jesus is not a myth but a living God, according to Christians. Let us see how world events unfold according to the prediction of Jesus.

 

 

 

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @>yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 >Friday, February 27, 2009 2:35:35 PMRe: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

 

 

 

 

Namaste Ruthenamji,

 

Please give supporting data with concrete references and not just your imaginative assertions, which have no value at all. I am a Hindu. Can you please let know your religious affiliation too. However if you have any reservation in telling that please let me know and also let me know how much you know about your own scriptures, before dabbling in others'.

 

In your last letter you were talking vehemently about Winter Solstice. In that connection I asked to find out why December 25 was chosen as the Christmas day. Now you seem to be evading that completely. What type of scholarship is this? Reputed western scholars do not do like this. --- On Fri, 2/27/09, yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 > wrote:

yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 >Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Mattersunil_bhattacharjya @..com, waves-vedic, "Robert E. Wilkinson" <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>Cc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com, deenbc , jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com, harimalla@rocketmai l.com, robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com, , ancient_indian_ astrologyFriday, February 27, 2009,

12:20 AM

 

 

Namaste Bhattacharjyaji

 

...

Although tradition holds that an ancient sage called Vyasa wrote the Mahabharata, it was almost certainly composed by a number of different poets and then collected into a single work sometime between 300 B.C. and A.D. 350. The epic reached its present form about 200 years later. It contains nearly 100,000 verses and is divided into 18 sections called parvans. It consists of many legends and tales revolving around the conflicts between two branches of a mythical family. The stories involve deities, demigods, and heroes. Some people foolishly argue that these legends contain elements of cosmology, philosophy, and religious doctrine Cosmology is a set of ideas about the origin, history, and

structure of the universe, and the imaginary claim of Aurobindo and others borders on insanity. They foolishly claim without any scientific evidence that the Mahabharata belongs to the Dvapar Yuga. Cosmology proves that the Ramayana is much older than the Mahabharata. It does not go beyond the Vindhyas. However, in the case of the Mahabharata, the whole of India was known and the rulers from the south also came to participate in the Mahabharata war. Paninini mentions Vasudeve, Arjuna and Yudhisthira. The Pandavas are not known to the Brhamanas. It is clear from these facts that Vyasa alone did not write the Mahaabharata. It is also quite evident from these facts that the Mahabharata is based on mythology and its heroes and heroines are not historical figures.

 

 

A section of the epic called the Bhagavad Gita is the most important religious text of Hinduism. But it was introduced at a later stage by the Gupta rulers to thwart the growing tide of Buddhism. It was interwoven by borrowing ideas from Buddhism and Christianity to give the Mahabharata the image of a religious text. There were Greek satrapies in India before Kanishka came to power. There were Indian ambassadors in the courts of Roman Emperors Augustus, Trajan, Hadrian, Constantine , Julian and Justinian. There was a flourishing Indian population permanently settled in Alexandria . The first Gupta ruler, Chandra Gupta I came to power in 319 A.D. But 300 years before the Guptas came to power, St.Thomas was in the court of Gondopharnes, and from the northwest, Thomas spread the message of Jesus to many in the northern region and finally came to Mylapore and Kerala. Although, the Mahabharata is a

war literature, the religious part in the epic was later appended by the Gupta kings by heavily borrowing from Christianity and Buddhism.

 

 

 

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @>waves-vedicCc: yeshu2004 ; vedicscience@ rediffmail. com; atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com; deenbc ; jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com; harimalla@rocketmai l.com; robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com; ; ancient_indian_ astrologyThursday, February 26, 2009 10:00:59 AM[WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry Ruthenamji,

 

There is a typo...

 

Please read the sentence "Hindus believe in one God but respecting the superiors are looked down upon by them." as "Hindus believe in one God but respecting the superiors are not looked down upon by them."

 

Regards,

 

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya--- On Wed, 2/25/09, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @> wrote:

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @> Re: Fw: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matterwaves-vedicCc: yeshu2004 , vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com, deenbc , jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com, harimalla@rocketmai l.com, robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com, , ancient_indian_ astrologyWednesday, February 25, 2009, 8:09 PM

 

 

Dear Shri Ruthenamji, You wrote : Quote The Veda, the Mahabharata war and all Sanskrit literature were brought to light by European scholars. It is cnfirmed that the Mahabharata war was a sheer myth. Unquote I know that European scholars translated the Veda and the Epics into English as they valued these and they wanted their own people to read them and that was a favour to themselves. Indians had these in Sanskrit as well as in their vernacular languages.1)Do you know that till the year 1882 the King James version of the Bible gave the year of creation as 4004 BCE, whereas the Indian texts, which you are condemning without any substantiation, gave the age of the earth as several billion years, which is the same as what the modern science says.?2)Do you know yourself as to why and from when the Christmas began to be celebrated

on December 25 when Jesus Christ himself was born on an earlier month and his year of birth is also on 4 BCE? You should know it first before you say anything about the Winter Solstice. Can you substantiate your statement that the Mahabharata war was a myth and that no such war took place at all? The Indians know how to interpret their ancient texts. The Puranas and Epics are historical texts called Itihasas, interspersed with stories and anecdotes in order to give out the Vedic truths to the masses, through them. You also said : Quote Similarly, the Vedas written by primitive people and like all primitive societies they pray to god for food, health and victory in the war. Unquote The gods in Hinduism, Buddhism (like Tara, amd Manjushri) and Jainism are like the angels of the Semitic religion. Hindus believe that they are

superior beings and they are also created by God and that they are at a higher evolutionary step than we are. The Quran also did not say that one should not seek favour from the angels. Even prophet Muhammad was complaining to the Archangel Gabriel about the latter's coming late...... to him. Hindus believe in one God but respecting the superiors are looked down upon by them. May be you do not know how to respect your superiors.. The Vedas cannot be understood by everybody and you are one of them. However if you wish to learn these then you have to go to a guru with due respect and he will teach you provided he finds you worthy of that. As regards Wilkinsonji' s mail I have replied to that in a separate mail.. Regards, Sunil K. Bhattacharjya--- On Wed, 2/25/09, yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 > wrote:yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 >Fw: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Mattersunil_bhattacharjya @, waves04@ .comCc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, "atlanta vedic" <atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com>, "hinc liz"

<hinducivilization>, deenbc (AT) hotmail (DOT) com, harimalla@rocketmai l.comWednesday, February 25, 2009, 6:38 PM----- Forwarded Message ----yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 >Robert E... Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>Thursday, February 26, 2009 8:02:06 AMRe: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An

Important Matter"\the March Equinox - Cosmic Dawn; the June Solstice - Cosmic Midnight; the September Equinox - Cosmic Sunset; and last but best of all, the December Solstice - Cosmic Midday or Uttarayana, the highest position of the Sun whereby as a single Ray (the lost Sun hidden by Vritra) it descends to the Earth casting no shadows" It is all nonsense that you are writing. The Veda, the Mahabharata war and all Sanskrit literature were brought to light by European scholars. It is cnfirmed that the Mahabharata war was a sheer myth. Then how can you try to fix the date? Similarly, the Vedas written by primitive people and like all primitive societies they pray to god for food, health and victory in the war. It is sheer madness to claim philosophy and science in the primittive works.Robert E.. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT)

com>sunil_bhattacharjya @; waves-vedicCc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com; atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com; hinducivilization; deenbc ; jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com; harimalla@rocketmai l.comWednesday, February 25, 2009 9:01:08 PMRe:

[WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter Namaste Sunil K. Bhattacharj- ji Thank you for your reply. If you would be so kind, please provide me with the exact citation where Sri Aurobindo discusses the date of the Mahabharata war. The root of your error is plainly evident. When you write that, “…for nearly twenty two centuries the Uttarayana did take place in the Makar Rashi. but we have to live in the present situation when the Uttarayana does not occur in the Makar Rashi†, you are basing your conclusions on the Nirayana Sidereal system of calendar

measure with its irregular Constellations and shifting ayanamsha. This is not only unreliable and confusing but worst of all it is un-Vedic. It directly contradicts the verses in the Rig Veda that describe “One wheel of three-hundred and sixty spokes, firmly riveted, that shake not in the least.†This ‘One Wheel’ is the eternal and unchanging Tropical zodiac or Sayana system used by the Rishis to precisely measure the Earth in its yearly passage around the ecliptic as well as a corresponding movement in the individual. The errors of the Nirayana system, to which you evidently , arose with the hegemony ofscientific relativism into the realm of the sacred when the astronomer usurped the role of the sage and seer and proclaimed objective astronomical measurement to be the final authority in calendar matters. All that you have written to support your contention that there is no meaningful connection

between Makar Sankranti, the Capricorn Solstice and Uttarayana, the northward journey of Sun is, in the final analysis, a direct contradiction of the Dharma. Open your mind and listen to the words of the world’s leading Seer and Vedic Cosmologist on these important matters: “…We speak glibly of a SANTANA Dharma, the 'eternal' Law. But what sort of eternal law, and consequent stability, can a shifting calendar provide the Hindu Samaj? The FLOATING AYANAMSHAS in vogue today, which bear no sanction in the Veda, are anything but stable and constant. Each second that passes of our Earth time causes that distant sidereal point light-years away to change position, thereby making that Ayanamsha with each passing second inoperable and inapplicable for any ritual. If the pundit is sincere to his trade, he must know this. He must know that yesterday's Ayanamsha cannot be held today as valid because IT HAS SHIFTED IN THE HEAVENS, perhaps

slightly, but shifted it has. Today it is not where it was yesterday. And if we add to this the complete impossibility to determine just where and what that Ayanamsha might be, then we understand why there is total confusion among the ranks of the pundits. And Hinduism suffers an increasingdeterioration accordingly, with each ritual that propagates this illusion. Absolutism of the eternal Dharma lies within our grasp if we take the same Journey the Veda pre-scribes, poised on the immutable four Cardinal Points: the March Equinox - Cosmic Dawn; the June Solstice - Cosmic Midnight; the September Equinox - Cosmic Sunset; and last but best of all, the December Solstice - Cosmic Midday or Uttarayana, the highest position of the Sun whereby as a single Ray (the lost Sun hidden by Vritra) it descends to the Earth casting no shadows. And therefore it is known as the period of Victory for the Aryan Warrior; or, in the larger cycles of

time, as the Golden Age, the Satya Yuga. We need to understand the 'seed' nature of the Makar Sankranti and how it can be said that this is an experience of both the Earth, the individual and of the collective Hindu Samaj, all simultaneously on that very special Solstice.. This is understood when we realise that Time itself is compressed to a seed at the De-cember Solstice. The 'shortest day of the year' has no other factual significance for inhabitants of our special planet than this: compression to a point, compaction to a seed. The light of the Sun, those divine Cows/Rays, is compressed to this point-experience of Time when its measure reaches the extremes of itself [the Solstice or SHORTEST day of the year]. And then when the [Makar] Sankranti is observed with the right 'combination' - the right harmony of the Earth to the Ecliptic - the entire Hindu Samaj connects itself through this 'seed-point' to the replenishing Source

from which it originally sprang. Today as in aeons gone by,it can drink once again of the waters the Goddess Mahasaraswati benignly releases abroad upon the world. “Thea†Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet, THE MAKAR SANKRANTI - Winter Solstice RE Wilkinson- Sunil Bhattacharjya waves-vedic Cc: robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com ; vedicscience@ rediffmail. com ; atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com ; hinducivilization ; deenbc ; jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com ; harimalla@rocketmai l.com Tuesday, February 24, 2009 8:54 PMRe: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important MatterNamaste R....E.Wilkinsonji, Namaste, You wrote as follows: Quote What you write is very interesting

indeed

but it fails to grasp the underlying truth of the Makar Sankranti and the Capricorn Gateway. Because of this, your conclusions regarding the Makar Sankranti and Winter Solstice, the Sayana and Nirayana systems are completely incorrect.unquote On the contrary you have not understood the difference between the significance of Makara Sankranti and that of Uttarayana. You have referred to Sri Aurobindo. Starting from the day when Lele taught him how to meditate he did advance to high level of thought. But all that Sri Aurobindo said are not to be taken blindly. He said that the Mahabharata war took place in 1190 BCE and we now know that he was wrong from the archaeological evidence itself as the river Saraswati dried up much before 1190 BCE and that at the time of the Mahabharata war it was flowing and Balarama's going to the Saraswati is mentioned in the Mahabharata. . You have quoted from the Rig Veda.

Agreed that Brahmanaspati (Brihaspati) did make the knowledge appear (or known) that the certain eternal worlds came into being, which open their doors with moons ( bright and dark fortnights) and autumns (seasons) and that these (the eternal worlds) move effortlessly from one to another, but it did not link up the Makar Rashi with any season. In the Chapter 8 of the Bhagavad Gita Lord Krishna describes the path by which the yogi, who has known the Brahman departs. Lord Krishna also describes the path by which the yogi, who is disciplined but has not realised Brahman, goes. Other sources such as the Chandogya Upanishad, Baudhayana smriti, Shiva gita and Kurma purana give details of these aspects but nowhere they have linked up Makar Sankranti with Uttarayana. Different ancient texts, composed at different time periods, mention a particular season occurring at different Nakshatras which shows that the seasonsare

not tied to the Nakshatras and as the Winter season starts with the Uttarayana so also the Uttarayana should also be not linked to any Nakshatra or Rashi. Makar Sankramana is about Sankramana of the Makar rashi. As I said before that for nearly twenty two centuries the Uttarayana did take place in the Makar Rashi. but we have to live in the present situation when the Uttarayana does not occur in the Makar Rashi. If you have any doubt abiout the real meaning of rashi, please go to my last mail. Let the truth prevail. It is not late for the astrologers, who did not know this, to correct themselves and recognise that Winter Solstice need not be linked up with the Makar Sankramana. Regards, Sunil K. Bhattacharjya --- On Tue, 2/24/09, Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com> wrote:Robert E.... Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>Re:

[WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Mattersunil_bhattacharjya @Cc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com, HinduCalendar, hinducivilization, waves-vedic@ .. com, deenbc , jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com, harimalla@rocketmai l.comTuesday, February 24, 2009, 9:16 AM Namaste Sunil K. Bhattacharjya- ji What you write is very interesting indeed but it fails to grasp the underlying truth of the Makar Sankranti and the Capricorn Gateway. Because of this, your conclusions regarding the Makar Sankranti and Winter Solstice, the Sayana and Nirayana systems are completely incorrect. These are matters of Veda, obtained through Shruti as you mentioned. But

in order to

secure a higher understanding of these important matters we must go back to the Vedic scriptures themselves. As a matter of curiosity, How many of you on this study group have even read Sri Aurobindo’s “Secret of the Veda� If this group is truly about Vedic Studies, we must get serious about it and go directly to the source. That said, there is no better authority on the Veda than Sri Aurobindo. He has plainly stated that the Vedas are the oldest extant spiritual scriptures on earth. Its name, “Veda†- the Knowledge, is the received name for the highest spiritual truth of which the human mind is capable. Over the millennia however this high knowledge became lost or corrupted. “As the Veda had passed from the sage to the priest, wrote Sri Aurobindo, so now it began to pass from the hands of the priest into the hands of the scholar. And in that keeping it suffered the last mutilation of its sense and the last

diminution of its true dignity and sanctity.†What we are seeing today on WAVES is a continuation of that mutilation and diminution…not through scholars, but through self-important pseudo-scholars like Yeshu Rathenam who are given free rein to post comments that the Veda are a “worthless set of books. This has to stop! Among the many secrets of the Veda given by the ancient sages, are precise instructions, yogic techniques, the goal of which is to help us ascend beyond our mortal mentality to the luminous truth of our being on the spiritual plane of our existence. The Rishis are quite plain spoken on this account. The secret of secrets, the greatest mystery of the Veda is a supremely enlightened state “Swar†which results from a perfect alignment of the individual with the twelve months of the sacrificial year. "Certain eternal worlds are these which have come into being, their doors are

shut to you (or opened) by the months and the years. Without effort one world moves in the other, and it is these that Brihaspati has made manifest to knowledge" Rig Veda (II.24.5) These secret eternal worlds have been closed to us by our misperception of the movement of time. The months and the years, therefore have to be re-discovered and created in us by that same power. This, says the Rishi, is the mightiest work, the fairest achievement and it hinges on the conquest of time. “The Vedic idea was that the subconscient darkness and the ordinary life of ignorance held concealed in it all that belongs to the divine life and that these secret riches must be recovered first by destroying the impenitent powers of ignorance and then by possessing the lower life subjected to the higher.†Sri Aurobindo, Secret of the Veda (p. 238) What we are interested in writes Sri

Aurobindo, is the process by which one is able to release the soul’s light and come to know and live the higher stages of the journey and in so doing, developing ‘the unity of the nine-rayed and the ten-rayed seers who by the utter thought of the soul, by the word that illumines broke open the fortified pens ...' This then is the Vedic sacrifice: ‘ a journey; indeed the sacrifice itself is described as travelling, as journeying to a divine goal; and the journey and the sacrifice are continually spoken of as a battle against the dark powers.' Ibid, (p. 183) '. .... . the possession of our complete divine consciousness delivered from all falsehood by the free descent of the truth, gives us the secure possession of the world of Swar and the enjoyment of mental and physical being lifted into the godhead above the darkness, falsehood and death by the in-streaming of our divine elements. This victory is

won in twelve periods of the upward journey, represented by the revolution of the twelve months of the sacrificial year, the periods corresponding to the successive dawns of a wider and wider truth, until the tenth secures the victory. What may be the precise significance of the nine rays and the ten, is a more difficult question which we are not yet in a position to solve*. But the light we have already is sufficient to illuminate all the main imagery of the Rig Veda..' Ibid (p. 182) In his Secret of the Veda, Sri Aurobindo described these worlds of Swar as “Godheads†but it was not until the cosmological discoveries made by “Thea†Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet that these symbols, Vedic “godheads†of “the nine rays and the ten†were revealed to be synonymous with and referring to the 9th and 10th months of the cosmic year: Sagittarius and Capricorn. And, according to the Rishi, it is in the Tenth Month (CAPRICORN)

that the final Victory is achieved. It is for this reason and none other that the Makar Sankranti, the Capricorn Gateway, is the most important ritual date in the Hindu Calendar. Perhaps you will now understand why it is so important that the true Makar Sankranti (Winter Solstice) be observed on 21 December and not 14 January. In the service of Truth, RE Wilkinson - Sunil Bhattacharjya Robert E. Wilkinson Monday, February 23, 2009 7:47 PMRe: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important MatterDear Robert E. wilkinsonji, Namaste, The astrologers like AKK show concern at Makar Sankranti being observed about three weeks after the Winter Solstice but they never care to know what is the true meaning of the Makar Sankranti. Makar is the Makar rashi and Sankranti means the act of Sankraman or intrusion. So

Makar Sankranti has to when the Sun enters the Makar Rashi. AKK and others never care to know why Makar Rashi is considered important. Shravana nakshatra is in the Makar rashi and this is Nakshatra ruled by Shri Hari. Shravana and Shruti has the same origin and Shruti is the Veda. Shravana is considered asthe Nakshatra of the Veda-Mata Saraswati. Before Abhijit Nakshatra, whose ruler is Brahmaa, moved away to become the Pole-star, Abhijit used to be a Nakshatra in the makar rashi. Appropriately Makar rashi was called the Brahma rashi in the Mahabharata. Astrologically also the Makar Rashi is considered to be Rashi of Bharatvarsha. Thus the Makar Rashi has a unique position andthe Sun's entry into the Makar Rashi is an important event. Thus the Makar Sankranti has been and will be observed when the Sun enters the Makar Rashi. Now it is also true that at one time the Winter Solstice did take

place in the Makar Rashi for close to twenty two centuries. Even the latitudinal line at the point of the Winter Solstice had begun to be called as the Makar Rekha or the Tropic of Capricorn and this was appropriate only as long as the Wlnter Solstice occurred in the true Makar Rashi. So AKK and others think that Makar Sankranti and Winter Solstice are synonymous, forgetting that this can only happen only for close to twenty two centuries at a time and then wait for close to twenty four Millennia for that to reoccur. This is not to say that the Winter Solstice has no importance. The Tropical Calendar cannot do without the recognising the Winter Solstice. So the Tropical calendar has to learn to coexist with the Sidereal calendar. If those who want to observe the Winter Solstice as the Uttarayana day can observe it by all means. So let us have one additional

festivalday on the Uttarayana day for those who want to onserve that rather than trying to annul the Makar Sankranti festival on the day when the Sun enters the Makar Rashi. Regards, Sunil K. Bhattacharjya --- On Mon, 2/23/09, Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com> wrote:Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Mattersunil_bhattacharjya @, harimalla@rocketmai l.comCc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com, HinduCalendar, hinducivilization, waves-vedic, deenbc , jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) comMonday, February 23,

2009, 7:55

AMNamaste Hari Mala-ji,Thank you for your response and the interesting information about the Makar. You bring up some interesting points in your letter which I feel the need to address in some detail. Let me begin with your request that those of us interested in Calendar Reform do this through a "concerted effort and if possible without changing any of the current practices and by not insisting on any particular method. It is your belief that this would be the best type of reform and acceptable to most". I am sure you have the best of intentions but your reply reveals exactly what is WRONG with the general attitude surrounding these important matters. Let me explain: First, it is virtually impossible to reform the calendar through a concerted effort given the wide gaps in understanding evidenced by these discussions on WAVES.. I agree with you that Dr. Arya is worthy of praise but, in my opinion, the scholarship

of Krishen Kaul and Yeshu Rathenam does not rise to that level. Nevertheless you would prefer that we find an inclusive solution, without changing the current practices and acceptable to most. In other words you would be comfortable with some kind of compromise that doesn’t rock the boat. You are evidently unaware that when it comes to matters of Higher Truth and the cosmological absolutes that the Veda prescribes, compromise is simply not an option. What is required is credible LEADERSHIP that can expose the fallacious logic that so often passes for wisdom on this discussion group. What I find simply unbelievable is that many of the members of WAVES, people who supposedly have some knowledge of the Veda,accept the pretentious posturing of AKK as gospel while virtually ignoring the authoritative statements of Veda masters like Sri Aurobindo, “Thea†Patrizia-Norelli- Bachelet and Swami Dayananda Saraswati. No discrimination is made

between the opinions of scholars and the direct knowledge of the sage. Naturally this results in an environment of mass confusion out of which true Calendar Reform cannot emerge. And what is the result? One of the esteemed leaders of a Vedic Temple in the US reads what I have written on calendar reform and, not being a Sanskritist or Jyotish scholar himself, he writes and asks AKK to set him straight out of his vast experience and knowledge. Here is someone who holds a position of trust and leadership in the religious community, responsible for the spiritual guidance of others, and he has no understanding of these important matters. I have written him on several occasions to ask for a fair hearing but, because of his faith in AKK, I have not received even the courtesy of a reply. So this man, having placed his confidence in a person of no realization and preferring not to rock the boat, returns to his flock and leads them on a

path of Adharma rather than make a sincere effort to establish what is and is not the truth of the Veda. Now multiply this by tens of thousands and you have some idea of the problem we must overcome tore-establish the Sanatana Dharma. So to answer your question, No! we cannot give in to compromise. No! we cannot continue the current Nirayana practices and Yes!, we must insist on the method laid down in the Veda if we are to have any meaningful reform of the Calendar. As for the names of the temples in India that have embraced the beginnings of Calendar reform, you will find them listed on my website http://www.vediccos mology.com. In the service of truth, RE Wilkinson Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus

Database:

270.11.3/1967 - Release 2/23/2009 7:17 AMChecked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1967 - Release 2/23/2009 7:17 AM

[Guest guest]

Better understood late, then never, about his hidden agenda.

 

regards/Bhaskar.

 

 

 

 

 

 

, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:

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>

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>

> Do

> you know Sanskrit to read the Vedas? Have you studied the Vedangas to

> read the Vedas? Why do you think that what you said is correct? Can

you

> substantiate what you said by quoting the exact verses? Mr. Ruthenam

> you are caught.

>

> You have been evading when you are caught and you change topics

everytime. No more replies to you. I gave you the benefit of doubt

thinking that you are confused and you need help to understand what is

right. But now it appears that you have some hidden agenda.

>

>

> --- On Thu, 3/5/09, yeshu rathenam yeshu2004 wrote:

> yeshu rathenam yeshu2004

> Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

> sunil_bhattacharjya

> Cc: atlantavedictemple, sunil_bhattacharjya,

waves-vedic , robtw, vedicscience, deenbc,

jyotirved, harimalla, ,

 

> Thursday, March 5, 2009, 12:29 AM

>

> Read thoroughly the Vedas. There are innumerable referenced in the

Vedas about the sacrifice of cows. After sacrifiing cows, the Vedic

Aryans ate beef. They also summoned Indra to share beef and the

intoxicating liquour soma.

> .

>

>

>

>

> Sunil Bhattacharjya sunil_bhattacharjya

> yeshu rathenam yeshu2004

> Cc: atlantavedictemple; sunil_bhattacharjya;

waves-vedic ; robtw; vedicscience; deenbc;

jyotirved; harimalla; ;

 

> Thursday, March 5, 2009 12:48:28 PM

> Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

>

>

>

>

>

> Lord Buddha on the contrary told the brahmins to try to understand the

true meaning of the Vedas.. Lord Buddha quoted from Veda to tell

Bimbisara that Vedas did not sanction animal sacrifice. One full chapter

of Dhammapada is devoted to brahmin. In fact Lord Buddha said that he

would take his next birth in a brahmin family. Dr. Ambedkar's statements

are not in consonance with what Lord Buddha said. If you want to

contradict Lord Buddha I have no problem but I respect Lord Buddha and I

ignore the ones who contradict what Lord Buddha said. You must read

about the arguments between Mahatma Gabdhi, the Champion of the the

Harijans and Dr. Ambedkar on these issues.

>

> Many people think that Dr. Ambedkar hated Hinduism and the brahmins.

On the contrary he married a brahmin lady and he remained Hindu till the

very end of his life. He got converted to Buddhism only some days before

his death.

>

> I understand from other members you had a

> lot of discussions earlier in this forum before my joining it. Still

if you really want to know about Hinduism please do not belligerant as

no teacher likes a belligerant student.

>

>

>

> --- On Wed, 3/4/09, yeshu rathenam yeshu2004 wrote:

>

> yeshu rathenam yeshu2004

> Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

> " Vedic Temple " atlantavedictemple

> Cc: " Sunil Bhattacharjya " sunil_bhattacharjya,

waves-vedic , robtw, vedicscience, deenbc,

jyotirved, harimalla, ,

 

> Wednesday, March 4, 2009, 8:07 PM

It is only after reading Satyarth Prakash, a learned scholar like Dr.

Ambedkar has given the following message:

>

>

> I am giving below Dr. B.R.Ambedkar’s views on the Vedas

representing the sanatana dharma: “Now the Brahmins have left no

room for doubt, for they have propounded a most mischievous dogma which

the Brahmins have spread among the masses, is the dogma of the

infallibility of the Vedas. If the Hindu intellect has ceased to grow

and if the Hindu civilization and culture has become a stagnant and

stinking pool, this dogma must be destroyed root and branch if India is

to progress. The Vedas are a worthless set of books. There is no reason

either to call them sacred or infallible. The Brahmins have invested it

with sanctity and infallibility only because by a later interpolation of

what is called the Purusha †" Sukta, the Vedas have made them the

lords of the Earth. Nobody has had the courage to ask why these

worthless books

> which

> contain nothing but invocation to tribal gods to destroy the enemies,

loot their property and give it to their followers(have been made sacred

and infallible). Â

> But the time has come when the Hindu mind must be freed from the hold

which the silly ideas propagated by the Brahmins, are on them. Without

this liberation India has no future. I have undertaken this task knowing

full well what risk it involves. I am not afraid of consequences. I

shall be happy if I succeed in stirring the masses.†Dr. Ambedkar

>

>

>

>

> Vedic Temple atlantavedictemple

> yeshu rathenam yeshu2004

> Cc: Sunil Bhattacharjya sunil_bhattacharjya;

waves-vedic ; robtw; vedicscience; deenbc;

jyotirved; harimalla; ;

 

> Wednesday, March 4, 2009 3:43:01 AM

> Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

Namastey,

> Â

> Read Styarth Prakash here, to clear some of the confusion.

> Â

> http://www.satyavid ya.org/downloads /cat_view/ 48-satyarth-

prakashÂ

> Â

> Also, the link below may be helpful in getting the questions answered.

> Â

> http://www.satyavid ya.org/must- readÂ

> Â

> Â

> Thanks

>

>

> Â

> On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 12:10 AM, yeshu rathenam yeshu2004 >

wrote:

>

>

>

>

>

> A careful reading of Hindu literature will reveal that the Puranas,

the Vedas, the Ramayana and Mahabharata sanctioned idolatry, polytheism,

caste, burning of widows and many other abominations. Indians, at the

time of the arrival of the British, had three hundred and thirty

millions of gods.. In the Vedas also we see the beginning of natural

worship, similar to all tribes in other parts of the world.

Nature-worship is the worship of natural objects without any conscious

attempt to personalize them. Thus when a river such as the Nile or

Ganges was worshipped, it was not the god of the river who received

veneration but the ‘divine water’ itself. Later such

objects were specifically deified giving rise to polytheism.. But we are

being brainwashed for centuries to believe that the Vedas are the

ultimate authoritative scripture for one to pursue the spiritual path to

realize God. Badrayana has reinterpreted the Vedas after heavily

borrowing ideas from

> Buddhism and Christianity But a casual reading of the Rig Veda will

reveal to us that there are large portions in it which have hardly any

connection with religion at all, but they are interesting all the same

as relics of antiquity. As for example, this line from Rig Veda:

> With bow let us wine kine, with Bow the battle, with Bow be victors in

our hot encounters.â€

> Â So it a cry for battle to win cows and enemy by using the bow. In

original Sanskrit, the Rig Veda does not have poetic verses. But the

European translators have followed poetic rules and arranged the

primitive Rig Veda by following rhyme and rhythm of English poetry.They

have also coined their own words and phrases to give a poetic style to

the primitive Rig Veda

> Â

> . The Mahabharata, like all primitive epics of the world, is mythical

in nature. Â Originally, the Mahabharata was a popular ballad about

the war between the Kurus and the Pandus. Kunti, a daughter of the

Yadava clan, was carried away by a barbarian named Pandu and the five

Pandava brothers were born of this illegitimate connection. The mythical

origin of the five Pandava brothers and the story of the birth of

Dhritarashtra and Pandu prove illegitimacy. Repeated indoctrination by

Brahmin fanatics has made us to worship the characters in this

mythology, as we idealize Shakespearean characters like Hamlet or

Juliet. In the battlefield the first thing to do after elaborate

preparation the previous day is to attack the enemy... But here there is

a twist and Arjuna is made to ask what is right and wrong, and Krishna

is made to use the battlefront to teach him karma, jnana and bhakti.

> Â It is clear proof that it an interpolation at a later date.

Sankara has reinterpreted Bhagavad-Gita by incorporating into it the

essence of Christianity and Buddhism. Sankara was born 800 years after

the birth of Jesus. So the Bhagavad-Gita is Sankara’s teaching

and not Krishna’s.. In Greek mythology, Zeus is the father of

gods and men, and most powerful of the immortals. He was worshipped as

the sky-deity, whose presence was marked by lightning, thunder and rain.

Greeks worshipped these mythological gods and goddesses for centuries.

Even great intellectuals like Socrates, Plato and Aristotle worshipped

these mythological gods and goddesses as we worship gods and goddesses

of Indian mythology. The Greeks had experienced miracles in battles,

thereby showing the power of the devil... Once the Greeks found the real

God they discarded the gods and goddesses of their mythology. It is

indeed a lesson for us.

> S.U..Rathenam - shiv umesh rathenam -- (yeshu ratnenam)

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @>

> waves-vedic

> Cc: yeshu2004 ; robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com; vedicscience@

rediffmail. com; atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com; deenbc ;

jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) .com; harimalla@rocketmai l.com; @

. com; ancient_indian_ astrology

> Monday, March 2, 2009 6:11:24 AM

> Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

>

>

>

Your name is Yaeshu Ruthenam and you claim to come from a Hindu

priestly family. Did you by any chance adopt this name afterÂ

convesion to Christianity?Â

> Â

> You have not given any evidence from history to prove that the

Mahabharata is a mythology. Mahabhara ta, being an epic, has stories

to convey the Vedic truths to the masses through the medium of stories

but it is also an Itihasa or History and the scholars can find the

historical information from that. It seems that you do not know the

meaning of Itihasa. You have only made false assertions that The

mahabharata is all mythology and want to get away with that without

giving any concrete reference. As you do not know the difference between

assertion and concrete evidence it is not worth pursuing any discussion

with you.

> Â

> The festival on December 25, in Constantine's own religion prior

to his adopting Christianity for political reasons, Â was to

celebrate the birth of the Sun on the day following the Winter Solstice

on December 24 of that year. He made it compulsory to observe

that day as the Christmas day in order to glorify Jesus Christ, even

though Jesus Christ was not born on December. So you are not aware

of the importance given to Winter Solstice in the West in the ancient

times.

> Â

> Â

> Â

> Â

> Â

>

> --- On Fri, 2/27/09, yeshu rathenam yeshu2004 > wrote:

>

> yeshu rathenam yeshu2004 >

> Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

> sunil_bhattacharjya @

> Friday, February 27, 2009, 11:42 PM

>

>

>

>

> I too come from a Hindu priestly class. But I am an egalitarian. I

have already given enough evidences from history to prove the

Mahabharata is a mythology. About your question about Christmas, I am to

state the following:

>

>

> While gods and goddesses of legends and mythology are assumed to be

real, how can you call historic and real god Jesus a myth? December 25

was celebrated as the birthday of Jesus by his family, disciples and the

first Church -- the Jerusalem Church.. Â December 25 was observed the

birthday of Jesus in all the churches in Asia Minor. It was only later

Christianity was taken to the West by Paul. The West was totally hostile

to Christianity which spread the message of love, peace and kindness.

The early Christians were persecuted in Rome. Several thousands of

Christians were killed by the Roman Emperors. But in 312 when Emperor

Constantine

> was

> fighting in Gaul, he had to face a powerful army. His travel-weary

soldiers were not having courage and strength to meet the challenge of a

far larger force ranging back from the city walls from a bend in the

Tiber. Fear gripped the Emperor. It was at that time he saw a great

light in the sky in the form of a cross, bearing the inscription Hoc

signo vinces (In this sign you will conquer). In the battle

Constantine won a miraculous victory. Later Constantine became a

Christian. Christianity †" the persecuted and hated religion

--- became the

> official

> religion of Rome. December 25 was officially proclaimed the birth date

of Jesus after ascertaining from the early church in Jerusalem. Â But

in Rome it coincided with the pagan festival of Solinvictus. That is why

this confusion arose. Since Christianity encourages free thought and

criticism, unlike Hinduism and Islam, this coincidence of date has been

fully exploited by atheists and secular humanists. They even deny the

holocaust which happened in the 20th. Century. Will they spare Christmas

of the First century?

> Â

> Long before we heard about Moscow, New Delhi, London, Washington and

Beijing, King David had founded Jerusalem as capital of Israel. But even

today, in the 21st century, Jerusalem is still in the

> news.

> Bethlehem where Jesus was born is a hot spot today.. The future of the

world will be decided in Jerusalem. Whether it is Putin or Obama, the

fate of the world hinges on the decision the world powers will be Â

making  on Jerusalem. These events were predicted by Jesus 2000

years ago, and they are happening today, including the economic crises

and the nations of the world converging on Jerusalem before the launch

of III World War. So Jesus is not a myth but a living God, according to

Christians. Let us see how world events unfold according to the

prediction of Jesus.

> Â

> Â

>

>

>

>

> Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @>

> yeshu rathenam yeshu2004 >

> Friday, February 27, 2009 2:35:35 PM

> Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

Namaste Ruthenamji,

> Â

> Please give supporting data with concrete references and not just

your imaginative assertions, which have no value at all. I am a Hindu.

Can you please let know your religious affiliation too. However if you

have any reservation in telling that please let me know  and

also let me know how much you know about your own scriptures, before

dabbling in others'.

> Â

> In your last letter you were talking vehemently about Winter Solstice.

In that connection I asked to find out why December 25 was chosen as the

Christmas day. Now you seem to be evading that completely. What type

of scholarship is this? Reputed western scholars do not do like this.

>

> --- On Fri, 2/27/09, yeshu rathenam yeshu2004 > wrote:

>

> yeshu rathenam yeshu2004 >

> Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

> sunil_bhattacharjya @..com, waves-vedic,

" Robert E. Wilkinson " robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>

> Cc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com,

deenbc , jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com, harimalla@rocketmai l.com,

robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com, , ancient_indian_

astrology

> Friday, February 27, 2009,

> 12:20 AM

>

>

>

>

> Namaste Bhattacharjyaji

>

>

> ..

> Â Although tradition holds that an ancient sage called Vyasa wrote

the Mahabharata, it was almost certainly composed by a number of

different poets and then collected into a single work sometime between

300 B.C. and A.D. 350. The epic reached its present form about 200 years

later. It contains nearly 100,000 verses and is divided into 18 sections

called parvans. It consists of many legends and tales revolving around

the conflicts between two branches of a mythical family. The stories

involve deities, demigods, and heroes. Some people foolishly argue that

these legends contain elements of cosmology, philosophy, and religious

doctrine Cosmology is a set of ideas about the origin, history, and

> structure of the universe, and the imaginary claim of Aurobindo and

others borders on insanity. They foolishly claim without any scientific

evidence that the Mahabharata belongs to the Dvapar Yuga. Cosmology

proves that the Ramayana is much older than the Mahabharata. It does not

go beyond the Vindhyas. However, in the case of the Mahabharata, the

whole of India was known and the rulers from the south also came to

participate in the Mahabharata war. Paninini mentions Vasudeve, Arjuna

and Yudhisthira. The Pandavas are not known to the Brhamanas. It is

clear from these facts that Vyasa alone did not write the Mahaabharata.

It is also quite evident from these facts that the Mahabharata is based

on mythology and its heroes and heroines are not historical figures.

>

> Â

>

> Â

> A section of the epic called the Bhagavad Gita is the most important

religious text of Hinduism. But it was introduced at a later stage by

the Gupta rulers to thwart the growing tide of Buddhism. It was

interwoven by borrowing ideas from Buddhism and Christianity to give the

Mahabharata the image of a religious text. There were Greek satrapies in

India before Kanishka came to power. There were Indian ambassadors in

the courts of Roman Emperors Augustus, Trajan, Hadrian, Constantine ,

Julian and Justinian. There was a flourishing Indian population

permanently settled in Alexandria . The first Gupta ruler, Chandra Gupta

I came to power in 319 A.D. But 300 years before the Guptas came to

power, St.Thomas was in the court of Gondopharnes, and from the

northwest, Thomas spread the message of Jesus to many in the northern

region and finally came to Mylapore and Kerala. Although, the

Mahabharata is a

> war literature, the religious part in the epic was later appended by

the Gupta kings by heavily borrowing from Christianity and Buddhism.

> Â

> Â

>

>

>

>

> Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @>

> waves-vedic

> Cc: yeshu2004 ; vedicscience@ rediffmail. com;

atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com; deenbc ; jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com;

harimalla@rocketmai l.com; robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com; @

. com; ancient_indian_ astrology

> Thursday, February 26, 2009 10:00:59 AM

> [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

>

>

>

>

>

Sorry Ruthenamji,

> Â

> There is a typo...

> Â

> Please read the sentence " Hindus believe in one God but respecting the

superiors are looked down upon by them. " as " Hindus believe in one God

but respecting the superiors are not looked down upon by them. "

> Â

> Regards,

> Â

> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

>

> --- On Wed, 2/25/09, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya

@> wrote:

>

> Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @>

> Re: Fw: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important

Matter

> waves-vedic

> Cc: yeshu2004 , vedicscience@ rediffmail. com,

atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com, deenbc , jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com,

harimalla@rocketmai l.com, robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com, @

. com, ancient_indian_ astrology

> Wednesday, February 25, 2009, 8:09 PM

>

>

>

>

> Dear Shri Ruthenamji,

> Â

> You wrote :

> Â

> Quote

> Â

> The Veda, the Mahabharata war and all Sanskrit literature were brought

to light by European scholars. It is cnfirmed that the Mahabharata war

was a sheer myth.

> Â

> Unquote

> Â

> I know that European scholars translated the Veda and the Epics into

English  as they valued these and they wanted their own people

to read them and that was a favour to themselves. Indians had these

in Sanskrit as well as in their vernacular languages.

> 1)

> Do you know that till the year 1882 the King James version of the

Bible gave the year of creation as 4004 BCE, whereas the Indian

texts, which you are condemning without any substantiation, gave the age

of the earth as several billion years, which is the same as what the

modern science says.?

> 2)

> Do you know yourself as to why and from when the Christmas began to be

celebrated

> on  December 25 when Jesus Christ himself was born on

an earlier month  and his year of birth is also on 4 BCE? You

should know it first before you say anything about the Winter Solstice.

> Â

> Can you substantiate your statement that the Mahabharata war was a

myth and that no such war took place at all? The Indians know how to

interpret their ancient texts. The Puranas and Epics are historical

texts called Itihasas, interspersed with stories and anecdotes in

order to give out the Vedic truths to the masses, through them.Â

> Â

> You also said :

> Â

> Quote

> Â

> Similarly, the Vedas written by primitive people and like all

primitive societies they pray to god for food, health and victory in the

war.

> Â

> Unquote

> Â

> The gods in Hinduism, Buddhism (like Tara, amd Manjushri) and Jainism

are like the angels of the Semitic religion. Hindus believe that they

are

> superior beings and they are also created by God and that they are at

a higher evolutionary step than we are. The Quran also did not

say that one should not seek favour from the angels. Even prophet

Muhammad was complaining to the Archangel Gabriel about the

latter's coming late...... to him. Hindus believe in one God but

respecting the superiors are looked down upon by them. May be you do not

know how to respect your superiors..Â

> Â

> The Vedas cannot be understood by everybody and you are one of them.

However if you wish to learn these then you have to go to a guru with

due respect and he will teach you provided he finds you worthy of that.

> Â

> As regards Wilkinsonji' s mail I have replied to that in a

separate mail..Â

> Â

> Regards,

> Â

> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

>

> --- On Wed, 2/25/09, yeshu rathenam yeshu2004 > wrote:

>

> yeshu rathenam yeshu2004 >

> Fw: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

> sunil_bhattacharjya @, waves04@ .com

> Cc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, " atlanta vedic "

<atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com>, " hinc liz "

> <hinducivilization>, deenbc (AT) hotmail (DOT) com,

harimalla@rocketmai l.com

> Wednesday, February 25, 2009, 6:38 PM

>

> ----- Forwarded Message ----

> yeshu rathenam yeshu2004 >

> Robert E... Wilkinson robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>

> Thursday, February 26, 2009 8:02:06 AM

> Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An

> Important Matter

>

> " \the March Equinox - Cosmic Dawn; the June Solstice - Cosmic

Midnight; the September Equinox - Cosmic Sunset; and last but best of

all, the December Solstice - Cosmic Midday or Uttarayana, the highest

position of the Sun whereby as a single Ray (the lost Sun hidden by

Vritra) it descends to the Earth casting no shadows " It is all nonsense

that you are writing. The Veda, the Mahabharata war and all Sanskrit

literature were brought to light by European scholars. It is cnfirmed

that the Mahabharata war was a sheer myth. Then how can you try to fix

the date? Similarly, the Vedas written by primitive people and like all

primitive societies they pray to god for food, health and victory in the

war. It is sheer madness to claim philosophy and science in the

primittive works.

>

> Robert E.. Wilkinson robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT)

> com>

> sunil_bhattacharjya @; waves-vedic

> Cc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com; atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com;

hinducivilization; deenbc ; jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT)

com; harimalla@rocketmai l.com

> Wednesday, February 25, 2009 9:01:08 PM

> Re:

> [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

>

> 

>

> Namaste Sunil K. Bhattacharj- ji

> Â

> Thank you for your reply. If you would be so kind, please provide me

with the exact citation where Sri Aurobindo discusses the date of the

Mahabharata war.

> Â

> Â

> The root of your error is plainly evident. When you write that,

“…for nearly twenty two centuries the Uttarayana did take

place in the Makar Rashi. but we have to live in the present situation

when the Uttarayana does not occur in the Makar Rashi†, you are

basing your conclusions on the Nirayana Sidereal system of calendar

> measure with its irregular Constellations and shifting ayanamsha. This

is not only unreliable and confusing but worst of all it is un-Vedic. It

directly contradicts the verses in the Rig Veda that describeÂ

“One wheel of three-hundred and sixty spokes, firmly riveted,

that shake not in the least.†This ‘One Wheel’ is

the eternal and unchanging Tropical zodiac or Sayana system used by the

Rishis to precisely measure the Earth in its yearly passage around the

ecliptic as well as a corresponding movement in the individual. The

errors of the Nirayana system, to which you evidently ,Â

arose with the hegemony of

> scientific relativism into the realm of the sacred when the astronomer

usurped the role of the sage and seer and proclaimed objective

astronomical measurement to be the final authority in calendar matters.

> Â Â Â

> All that you have written to support your contention that there is no

meaningful connection

> between Makar Sankranti, the Capricorn Solstice and Uttarayana, the

northward journey of Sun is, in the final analysis, a direct

contradiction of the Dharma. Open your mind and listen to the words of

the world’s leading Seer and Vedic Cosmologist on these important

matters:

> Â

> “…We speak glibly of a SANTANA Dharma, the 'eternal' Law.

But what sort of eternal law, and consequent stability, can a shifting

calendar provide the Hindu Samaj? The FLOATING AYANAMSHAS in vogue

today, which bear no sanction in the Veda, are anything but stable and

constant. Each second that passes of our Earth time causes that distant

sidereal point light-years away to change position, thereby making that

Ayanamsha with each passing second inoperable and inapplicable for any

ritual. If the pundit is sincere to his trade, he must know this. He

must know that yesterday's Ayanamsha cannot be held today as valid

because IT HAS SHIFTED IN THE HEAVENS, perhaps

> slightly, but shifted it has. Today it is not where it was yesterday.

And if we add to this the complete impossibility to determine just where

and what that Ayanamsha might be, then we understand why there is total

confusion among the ranks of the pundits. And Hinduism suffers an

increasing

> deterioration accordingly, with each ritual that propagates this

illusion.

> Â

> Â Absolutism of the eternal Dharma lies within our grasp if we

take the same Journey the Veda pre-scribes, poised on the immutable four

Cardinal Points: the March Equinox - Cosmic Dawn; the June Solstice -

Cosmic Midnight; the September Equinox - Cosmic Sunset; and last but

best of all, the December Solstice - Cosmic Midday or Uttarayana, the

highest position of the Sun whereby as a single Ray (the lost Sun hidden

by Vritra) it descends to the Earth casting no shadows. And therefore it

is known as the period of Victory for the Aryan Warrior; or, in the

larger cycles of

> time, as the Golden Age, the Satya Yuga.

> Â Â Â We need to understand the 'seed' nature of the Makar

Sankranti and how it can be said that this is an experience of both the

Earth, the individual and of the collective Hindu Samaj, all

simultaneously on that very special Solstice.. This is understood when

we realise that Time itself is compressed to a seed at the De-cember

Solstice. The 'shortest day of the year' has no other factual

significance for inhabitants of our special planet than this:

compression to a point, compaction to a seed. The light of the Sun,

those divine Cows/Rays, is compressed to this point-experience of Time

when its measure reaches the extremes of itself [the Solstice or

SHORTEST day of the year]. And then when the [Makar] Sankranti is

observed with the right 'combination' - the right harmony of the Earth

to the Ecliptic - the entire Hindu Samaj connects itself through this

'seed-point' to the replenishing Source

> from which it originally sprang. Today as in aeons gone by,

> it can drink once again of the waters the Goddess Mahasaraswati

benignly releases abroad upon the world. “Thea†Patrizia

Norelli-Bachelet, THE MAKAR SANKRANTI - Winter Solstice Â

> Â

> RE Wilkinson

>

> -

> Sunil Bhattacharjya

> waves-vedic

> Cc: robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com ; vedicscience@ rediffmail. com ;

atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com ; hinducivilization ;

deenbc ; jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com ; harimalla@rocketmai l.com

> Tuesday, February 24, 2009 8:54 PM

> Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

>

> Namaste R....E.Wilkinsonji,

> Â

> Namaste,

> Â

> You wrote as follows:

> Â

> Quote

> Â

> What you write is very interesting

> indeed

> but it fails to grasp the underlying truth of the Makar Sankranti and

the Capricorn Gateway. Because of this, your conclusions regarding the

Makar Sankranti and Winter Solstice, the Sayana and Nirayana systems are

completely incorrect.

>

> unquote

> Â

> On the contrary you have not understood the difference between the

significance of Makara Sankranti and that of Uttarayana. You have

referred to Sri Aurobindo. Starting from the day when Lele taught

him how to meditate he did advance to high level of thought. But all

that Sri Aurobindo said are not to be taken blindly. He said that the

Mahabharata war took place in 1190 BCE and we now know that he was wrong

from the archaeological evidence itself as the river Saraswati dried

up much before 1190 BCE and that at the time of the Mahabharata war it

was flowing and Balarama's going to the Saraswati is mentioned in

the Mahabharata. .

> Â

> You have quoted from the Rig Veda.

> Agreed that Brahmanaspati (Brihaspati)Â did make the knowledge

appear (or known) that the certain eternal worlds came into being, which

open their doors with moons ( bright and dark fortnights)Â and

autumns (seasons) and that these (the eternal worlds) move effortlessly

from one to another, but it did not link up the Makar Rashi with any

season. In the Chapter 8 of the Bhagavad Gita Lord Krishna describes the

path by which the yogi, who has known the Brahman departs. Lord Krishna

also describes the path by which the yogi, who is disciplined but has

not realised Brahman, goes. Other sources such as the Chandogya

Upanishad, Baudhayana smriti, Shiva gita and  Kurma purana give

details of these aspects but nowhere they have linked up Makar Sankranti

with Uttarayana. Different ancient texts, composed at different time

periods,  mention a particular season occurring at different

Nakshatras which shows that the seasons

> are

> not tied to the Nakshatras and as the Winter season starts with the

Uttarayana so also the Uttarayana should also be not linked to any

Nakshatra or Rashi. Makar Sankramana is about Sankramana of the Makar

rashi.  As I said before that for nearly twenty two centuries

the Uttarayana did take place in the Makar Rashi. but we have to live in

the present situation when the Uttarayana does not occur in the Makar

Rashi. If you have any doubt abiout the real meaning of rashi,

please go to my last mail.

> Â

> Let the truth prevail. It is not late for the astrologers, who did not

know this, to correct themselves and recognise that Winter Solstice need

not be linked up with the Makar Sankramana.

> Â

> Regards,

> Â

> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

> Â

> Â

> Â

> --- On Tue, 2/24/09, Robert E. Wilkinson robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com> wrote:

>

> Robert E.... Wilkinson robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>

> Re:

> [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

> sunil_bhattacharjya @

> Cc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com,

HinduCalendar, hinducivilization,

waves-vedic@ .. com, deenbc , jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com,

harimalla@rocketmai l.com

> Tuesday, February 24, 2009, 9:16 AM

>

> 

>

> Namaste Sunil K. Bhattacharjya- ji

> Â

> What you write is very interesting indeed but it fails to grasp the

underlying truth of the Makar Sankranti and the Capricorn Gateway.

Because of this, your conclusions regarding the Makar Sankranti and

Winter Solstice, the Sayana and Nirayana systems are completely

incorrect. These are matters of Veda, obtained through Shruti as you

mentioned. But

> in order to

> secure a higher understanding of these important matters we must go

back to the Vedic scriptures themselves.

>

> As a matter of curiosity, How many of you on this study group have

even read Sri Aurobindo’s  “Secret of the

Veda� If this group is truly about Vedic Studies, we must get

serious about it and go directly to the source. Â That said, there is

no better authority on the Veda than Sri Aurobindo. He has plainly

stated that the Vedas are the oldest extant spiritual scriptures on

earth. Its name, “Veda†- the Knowledge, is the

received name for the highest spiritual truth of which the human mind is

capable. Over the millennia however this high knowledge became lost

or corrupted. “As the Veda had passed from the sage to the

priest, wrote Sri Aurobindo, so now it began to pass from the hands of

the priest into the hands of the scholar. And in that keeping it

suffered the last mutilation of its sense and the last

> diminution of its true dignity and sanctity.†What we are

seeing today on WAVES is a continuation of that mutilation and

diminution…

> not through scholars, but through self-important pseudo-scholars like

Yeshu Rathenam who are given free rein to post comments that the Veda

are a “worthless set of books. This has to stop!

>

> Â

>

> Among the many secrets of the Veda given by the ancient sages, are

precise instructions, yogic techniques, the goal of which is to help us

ascend beyond our mortal mentality to the luminous truth of our being on

the spiritual plane of our existence. The Rishis are quite plain spoken

on this account. The secret of secrets, the greatest mystery of the Veda

is a supremely enlightened state “Swar†which results from

a perfect alignment of the individual with the twelve months of the

sacrificial year. Â

>

> Â

>

> " Certain eternal worlds are these which have come into being, their

doors are

> shut to you (or opened) by the months and the years. Without effort

one world moves in the other, and it is these that Brihaspati has made

manifest to knowledge " Rig Veda  (II.24.5)

>

> Â

>

> These secret eternal worlds have been closed to us by our

misperception of the movement of time. The months and the years,

therefore have to be re-discovered and created in us by that same power.

This, says the Rishi, is the mightiest work, the fairest achievement and

it hinges on the conquest of time.

>

> Â

>

> “The Vedic idea was that the subconscient darkness and the

ordinary life of ignorance held concealed in it all that belongs to the

divine life and that these secret riches must be recovered first by

destroying the impenitent powers of ignorance and then by possessing the

lower life subjected to the higher.†Sri Aurobindo, Secret of the

Veda (p. 238)

>

> Â

>

> What we are interested in writes Sri

> Aurobindo, is the process by which one is able to release the

soul’s light and come to know and live the higher stages

of the journey and in so doing, developing ‘the unity of the

nine-rayed and the ten-rayed seers who by the utter thought of the soul,

by the word that illumines broke open the fortified pens ...'Â This

then is the Vedic sacrifice: ‘ a journey; indeed the sacrifice

itself is described as travelling, as journeying to a divine goal; and

the journey and the sacrifice are continually spoken of as a battle

against the dark powers.' Ibid, (p. 183)

>

> Â

>

> Â '. .... . the possession of our complete divine consciousness

delivered from all falsehood by the free descent of the truth, gives us

the secure possession of the world of Swar and the enjoyment of mental

and physical being lifted into the godhead above the darkness, falsehood

and death by the in-streaming of our divine elements. This victory is

> won in twelve periods of the upward journey, represented by the

revolution of the twelve months of the sacrificial year, the periods

corresponding to the successive dawns of a wider and wider truth, until

the tenth secures the victory. What may be the precise significance of

the nine rays and the ten, is a more difficult question which we are not

yet in a position to solve*. But the light we have already is sufficient

to illuminate all the main imagery of the Rig Veda..' Ibid (p. 182)

>

> Â

>

> In his Secret of the Veda, Sri Aurobindo described these worlds of

Swar as “Godheads†but it was not until the cosmological

discoveries made by “Thea†Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet that

these symbols, Vedic “godheads†of “the nine rays

and the ten†were revealed to be synonymous with and referring to

the 9th and 10th months of the cosmic year: Sagittarius and Capricorn.

And, according to the Rishi, it is in the Tenth Month (CAPRICORN)

> that the final Victory is achieved. It is for this reason and none

other that the Makar Sankranti, the Capricorn Gateway, is the most

important ritual date in the Hindu Calendar. Perhaps you will now

understand why it is so important that the true Makar Sankranti (Winter

Solstice) be observed on 21 December and not 14 January.

>

> Â

>

> In the service of Truth,

>

> Â

>

> RE Wilkinson

>

> -

> Sunil Bhattacharjya

> Robert E. Wilkinson

> Monday, February 23, 2009 7:47 PM

> Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

>

> Dear Robert E. wilkinsonji,

> Â

> Namaste,

> Â

> The astrologers like AKKÂ show concern at Makar Sankranti being

observed about three weeks after the Winter Solstice but they never

care to know what is the true meaning of the Makar Sankranti. Makar is

the Makar rashi and Sankranti means the act of Sankraman or intrusion.

So

> Makar Sankranti has to when the Sun enters the Makar Rashi. AKK

and others never care to know why Makar Rashi is considered important.

Shravana nakshatra is in the Makar rashi and this is Nakshatra ruled by

Shri Hari. Shravana and Shruti has the same origin and Shruti is the

Veda. Shravana is considered asthe Nakshatra of the Veda-Mata Saraswati.

Before Abhijit Nakshatra, whose ruler is Brahmaa, moved away to become

the Pole-star, Abhijit used to be a Nakshatra in the makar

rashi. Appropriately Makar rashi was called the Brahma rashi in the

Mahabharata. Â Astrologically also the Makar Rashi is considered to

be Rashi of Bharatvarsha. Thus the Makar Rashi has a unique position and

> the Sun's entry into the Makar Rashi is an important event. Thus

the Makar Sankranti has been and will be observed when the Sun enters

the Makar Rashi.

> Â

> Now it is also true that at one time the Winter Solstice didÂ

take

> place in the Makar Rashi for close to twenty two centuries.

Even the latitudinal line at the point of the Winter Solstice had

begun to be called as the Makar Rekha or the Tropic of Capricorn

and this was appropriate only as long as the Wlnter Solstice

occurred in the true Makar Rashi. So AKK and others think that

Makar Sankranti and Winter Solstice are synonymous, forgetting that this

can only happen only for close to twenty two centuries at a time and

then wait for close to twenty four Millennia for that to reoccur.

This is not to say that the Winter Solstice has no

importance. The Tropical Calendar cannot do without theÂ

recognising the Winter Solstice. So the Tropical calendar has to

learn to coexist with the Sidereal calendar. If those who want to

observe the Winter Solstice as the Uttarayana day can observe it by

all means. So let us have one additional

> festival

> day on the Uttarayana day for those who want to onserve that

rather than trying to annul the Makar Sankranti festival on the day when

the Sun enters the Makar Rashi.

> Â

> Regards,

> Â

> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

> Â

> Â

> Â

>

> --- On Mon, 2/23/09, Robert E. Wilkinson robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com> wrote:

>

> Robert E. Wilkinson robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>

> Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

> sunil_bhattacharjya @, harimalla@rocketmai l.com

> Cc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com,

HinduCalendar, hinducivilization,

waves-vedic, deenbc , jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com

> Monday, February 23,

> 2009, 7:55

> AM

>

> Namaste Hari Mala-ji,

> Thank you for your response and the interesting information about the

Makar.

>

> You bring up some interesting points in your letter which I feel the

need to address in some detail. Let me begin with your request that

those of us interested in Calendar Reform do this through a " concerted

effort and if possible without changing any of the current practices and

by not insisting on any particular method. It is your belief that this

would be the best type of reform and acceptable to most " .

>

> I am sure you have the best of intentions but your reply reveals

exactly what is WRONG with the general attitude surrounding these

important matters. Let me explain:

>

> First, it is virtually impossible to reform the calendar through a

concerted effort given the wide gaps in understanding evidenced by these

discussions on WAVES.. Â I agree with you that Dr. Arya is worthy of

praise but, in my opinion, the scholarship

> of Krishen Kaul and Yeshu Rathenam does not rise to that level.

Nevertheless you would prefer that we find an inclusive solution,

without changing the current practices and acceptable to most. In other

words you would be comfortable with some kind of compromise that

doesn’t rock the boat. You are evidently unaware that when it

comes to matters of Higher Truth and the cosmological absolutes that the

Veda prescribes, compromise is simply not an option. What is required is

credible LEADERSHIP that can expose the fallacious logic that so often

passes for wisdom on this discussion group. What I find simply

unbelievable is that many of the members of WAVES, people who supposedly

have some knowledge of the Veda,

> accept the pretentious posturing of AKK as gospel while virtually

ignoring the authoritative statements of Veda masters like Sri

Aurobindo, “Thea†Patrizia-Norelli- Bachelet and Swami

Dayananda Saraswati. Â No discrimination is made

> between the opinions of scholars and the direct knowledge of the sage.

Naturally this results in an environment of mass confusion out of which

true Calendar Reform cannot emerge.

>

> And what is the result? One of the esteemed leaders of a Vedic Temple

in the US reads what I have written on calendar reform and, not being a

Sanskritist or Jyotish scholar himself, he writes and asks AKK to set

him straight out of his vast experience and knowledge. Here is someone

who holds a position of trust and leadership in the religious community,

responsible for the spiritual guidance of others, and he has no

understanding of these important matters. I have written him on several

occasions to ask for a fair hearing but, because of his faith in AKK, I

have not received even the courtesy of a reply. So this man, having

placed his confidence in a person of no realization and

preferring not to rock the boat, returns to his flock and leads them on

a

> path of Adharma rather than make a sincere effort to establish what is

and is not the truth of the Veda. Now multiply this by tens of thousands

and you have some idea of the problem we must overcome to

> re-establish the Sanatana Dharma.Â

>

> So to answer your question, No! we cannot give in to compromise. No!

we cannot continue the current Nirayana practices and Yes!, we must

insist on the method laid down in the Veda if we are to have any

meaningful reform of the Calendar.

>

> As for the names of the temples in India that have embraced the

beginnings of Calendar reform, you will find them listed on my website

http://www.vediccos mology.com.

>

> In the service of truth,

>

> RE Wilkinson

>

> Â

>

>

> Checked by AVG.

> Version: 7.5.552 / Virus

> Database:

> 270.11.3/1967 - Release 2/23/2009 7:17 AM

>

>

> Checked by AVG.

> Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1967 - Release Date:

2/23/2009 7:17 AM

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sunilji,

There is no need to react to everything. No need to teach. No need to throw light. If the sensory organs of the one , for whom this is intended , are not (yet) working all this will be in vain.

As for what you & Renuji said about Lord Buddha ( and what I too think of as a brahmin ), is the same that I have read in the Gita and elsewhere.

The understanding of humans takes time to reach that level when they search and feel the

presence of God.

Until that time let them imagine that God is a clean shaven, manicured guy or well groomed girl who wears contemperory clothes & therefore has more knowledge than the past "tribal seers "

 

Thanks & Regards

 

--- On Thu, 5/3/09, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya Re: Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter"yeshu rathenam" <yeshu2004Cc: waves-vedic , robtw, vedicscience, atlantavedictemple, deenbc, jyotirved, harimalla, , Date: Thursday, 5 March, 2009, 3:11 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just tell me why then Sankara wrote his first Bhashya on Vishnusahasranama? Why did he write Bhaja Govindam? Why did he write Prabodha Sudhakar? Why did he write a bhashya on Bhagavda Gita instead of writing one on Shiva Gita? Who told you that Sankara invented anything? Everything was in the Vedas and Upanishads. He explained difficult texts through his bhashya. You who is dismissing Advaita etc. as just high sounding words should leave these subjects alone as these are beyond your grasp. --- On Thu, 3/5/09, yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 > wrote:

yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 >Re: Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Mattersunil_bhattacharjya @, waves-vedicCc: robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com, vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com, deenbc , jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com, harimalla@rocketmai l.com, , ancient_indian_ astrologyThursday, March 5, 2009, 12:16 AM

 

 

 

Sankara’s interpretation of mythological texts gave a new life to decadent Hinduism. The peculiar classical neo-Brahmanical soteriology developed almost completely in the name of Siva. Sankaracharya proposed a monistic reform in a grand style, with the conscious intention of fighting the heterodox Buddhist and Jainist monastic orders. Sankara was a Saivite. The Brahmins succeeded in concealing the alcoholic and sexual orgiastic character of the adoration of the phallus (siva lingam) and transformed it into a pure ritualistic temple cult. But in the eleventh century, Ramanuja challenged Sankara’s views. There is nothing new or extraordinary in Sankara’s or Ramanuja’s thoughts. Both stress the fact that the escape for the soul is by total detachment from worldly pleasures. Even an uneducated

jungle tribal knows that to attain liberation one has to perform tapas. Today’s fourth standard student with a broad syllabus in science, mathematics, geography, computer and history has more knowledge than Sankara or Ramanuja. They are in today’s standard mere wandering fakirs and their thoughts ridiculous. None is concerned primarily with ethics (like Christianity) , but both seek freedom from bondage through deeds to rebirth.

 

 

 

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @>waves-vedic; yeshu2004 Cc: robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com; vedicscience@ rediffmail. com; atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com; deenbc ; jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com; harimalla@rocketmai l.com; ; ancient_indian_ astrologyWednesday, March 4, 2009 3:30:18 AMFw: Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Shiv umesh rathenamji,Namaste,It appears that you have difficulty in grasping that there is a difference between recitation and comprehension. Adi Sankaracharya has not asked anybody not to pray to God. If Adi Sankaracharya' s teachings are beyond your comprehension you can leave it. I am sure you are not in this forum simply to condemn the Indian seers and the Indian philosophy but to understand them. It appears that you have formed your opinion already. Do as you feel proper for you. BTW do you know Sanskrit and have you read any of Adi Sankaracharya' s work in Sanskrit?--- On Tue, 3/3/09, yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 > wrote:

yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 >Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Mattersunil_bhattacharjya @Tuesday, March 3, 2009, 8:02 AM

 

 

Nameste Sunilji

 

The high sounding Samskrit words 'dvaita', 'vishistadvaita' , and 'advaita' have been easily recited even by illiterate tribes who call their God supreme and look upon their god as one invisible or the one visible in matter. The high sounding samskrit word 'paramatma' is a supreme god of a tribal. What is known is made complicated by Sankara and what is practised by all in every part of the world is made unknown by Sankara and others and thereby prohibiting non-Brahmins to know about the Brahmin Samskrit mantra. It has all emanated from mythology and legends. It is high time Sunilji realized the truth and turn to the real God.

 

 

 

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @>yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 >Tuesday, March 3, 2009 11:21:38 AMRe: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

 

 

 

Shiv umesh rathenamji,Valiant attempt to understand Hindu scriptures. Everybody does not have the receptive capacity to understand the Vedas. Vedavyasa realised this and he said in the beginning of the Bhagavat purana that he composed the Mahabharata for those uninitiated, who could not understand the higher truths (of the Vedas). In Mahabharata, through the anecdotes, he tried do this to his best. Then he found he did not succeed in simplifying it enough and he was very sad. Then another rishi Narada advised him to compose the Bhagavat purana so that everybody could understand. So if you really want to understand the tenets of Hinduism better read the Bhagavat Purana.The concepts od Dvaita, Visishtadvaita and Advaita will be difficult for you to understand. You will also not understand what Lord Krishna said regarding the idol worship: "Pratimaa alpabuddhinaam, Sarvatra samadarshinaam" .Please do not try to date

the events of Indian history. You will find it difficult. Adi Sankaracharya was born in 509 BCE and that was (509 - 4 =) 505 years before Jesus Christ was born. Hope you will succeed Hinduism fast. Your name, at the first sight, suggested that you are not a Hindu. It is your prerogative to have whatever name you want to have or could it be by any chance your parents kept it like that and you have no hand in that. Best wishes,Sunil K. Bhattacharjya--- On Mon, 3/2/09, yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 > wrote:

yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 >Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter"Sunil Bhattacharjya" <sunil_bhattacharjya @>, waves-vedicCc: robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com, vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com, deenbc , jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com, harimalla@rocketmai l.com, , ancient_indian_ astrologyMonday, March 2, 2009, 9:10 PM

 

 

 

A careful reading of Hindu literature will reveal that the Puranas, the Vedas, the Ramayana and Mahabharata sanctioned idolatry, polytheism, caste, burning of widows and many other abominations. . Indians, at the time of the arrival of the British, had three hundred and thirty millions of gods.. In the Vedas also we see the beginning of natural worship, similar to all tribes in other parts of the world. Nature-worship is the worship of natural objects without any conscious attempt to personalize them. Thus when a river such as the Nile or Ganges was worshipped, it was not the god of the river who received veneration but the ‘divine water’ itself. Later such objects were specifically deified giving rise to polytheism.. But we are being brainwashed for centuries to believe that the Vedas are the ultimate authoritative scripture for one to pursue the spiritual path to realize God. Badrayana has reinterpreted the Vedas after heavily

borrowing ideas from Buddhism and Christianity But a casual reading of the Rig Veda will reveal to us that there are large portions in it which have hardly any connection with religion at all, but they are interesting all the same as relics of antiquity. As for example, this line from Rig Veda:

With bow let us wine kine, with Bow the battle, with Bow be victors in our hot encounters.â€

So it a cry for battle to win cows and enemy by using the bow. In original Sanskrit, the Rig Veda does not have poetic verses. But the European translators have followed poetic rules and arranged the primitive Rig Veda by following rhyme and rhythm of English poetry.They have also coined their own words and phrases to give a poetic style to the primitive Rig Veda

 

.. The Mahabharata, like all primitive epics of the world, is mythical in nature. Originally, the Mahabharata was a popular ballad about the war between the Kurus and the Pandus. Kunti, a daughter of the Yadava clan, was carried away by a barbarian named Pandu and the five Pandava brothers were born of this illegitimate connection. The mythical origin of the five Pandava brothers and the story of the birth of Dhritarashtra and Pandu prove illegitimacy. Repeated indoctrination by Brahmin fanatics has made us to worship the characters in this mythology, as we idealize Shakespearean characters like Hamlet or Juliet. In the battlefield the first thing to do after elaborate preparation the previous day is to attack the enemy. But here there is a twist and Arjuna is made to ask what is right and wrong, and Krishna is made to use the battlefront to teach him karma, jnana and bhakti.

It is clear proof that it an interpolation at a later date. Sankara has reinterpreted Bhagavad-Gita by incorporating into it the essence of Christianity and Buddhism. Sankara was born 800 years after the birth of Jesus. So the Bhagavad-Gita is Sankara’s teaching and not Krishna ’s.. In Greek mythology, Zeus is the father of gods and men, and most powerful of the immortals. He was worshipped as the sky-deity, whose presence was marked by lightning, thunder and rain. Greeks worshipped these mythological gods and goddesses for centuries. Even great intellectuals like Socrates, Plato and Aristotle worshipped these mythological gods and goddesses as we worship gods and goddesses of Indian mythology. The Greeks had experienced miracles in battles, thereby showing the power of the devil. Once the Greeks found the real God they discarded the gods and goddesses of their mythology. It is indeed a lesson for us.

S.U..Rathenam - shiv umesh rathenam -- (yeshu ratnenam)

 

 

 

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @>waves-vedicCc: yeshu2004 ; robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com; vedicscience@ rediffmail. com; atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com; deenbc ; jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) .com; harimalla@rocketmai l.com; @ .. com; ancient_indian_ astrologyMonday, March 2, 2009 6:11:24 AMRe: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

 

 

 

 

Your name is Yaeshu Ruthenam and you claim to come from a Hindu priestly family. Did you by any chance adopt this name after convesion to Christianity?

 

You have not given any evidence from history to prove that the Mahabharata is a mythology. Mahabharata, being an epic, has stories to convey the Vedic truths to the masses through the medium of stories but it is also an Itihasa or History and the scholars can find the historical information from that. It seems that you do not know the meaning of Itihasa. You have only made false assertions that The mahabharata is all mythology and want to get away with that without giving any concrete reference. As you do not know the difference between assertion and concrete evidence it is not worth pursuing any discussion with you.

 

The festival on December 25, in Constantine' s own religion prior to his adopting Christianity for political reasons, was to celebrate the birth of the Sun on the day following the Winter Solstice on December 24 of that year. He made it compulsory to observe that day as the Christmas day in order to glorify Jesus Christ, even though Jesus Christ was not born on December. So you are not aware of the importance given to Winter Solstice in the West in the ancient times.

 

 

 

 

 

--- On Fri, 2/27/09, yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 > wrote:

yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 >Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Mattersunil_bhattacharjya @Friday, February 27, 2009, 11:42 PM

 

 

I too come from a Hindu priestly class. But I am an egalitarian. I have already given enough evidences from history to prove the Mahabharata is a mythology. About your question about Christmas, I am to state the following:

 

While gods and goddesses of legends and mythology are assumed to be real, how can you call historic and real god Jesus a myth? December 25 was celebrated as the birthday of Jesus by his family, disciples and the first Church -- the Jerusalem Church.. December 25 was observed the birthday of Jesus in all the churches in Asia Minor. It was only later Christianity was taken to the West by Paul. The West was totally hostile to Christianity which spread the message of love, peace and kindness. The early Christians were persecuted in Rome. Several thousands of Christians were killed by the Roman Emperors. But in 312 when Emperor

Constantine was fighting in Gaul, he had to face a powerful army. His travel-weary soldiers were not having courage and strength to meet the challenge of a far larger force ranging back from the city walls from a bend in the Tiber. Fear gripped the Emperor. It was at that time he saw a great light in the sky in the form of a cross, bearing the inscription Hoc signo vinces (In this sign you will conquer). In the battle Constantine won a miraculous victory. Later Constantine became a Christian. Christianity – the persecuted and hated religion ---

became the official religion of Rome. December 25 was officially proclaimed the birth date of Jesus after ascertaining from the early church in Jerusalem. But in Rome it coincided with the pagan festival of Solinvictus. That is why this confusion arose. Since Christianity encourages free thought and criticism, unlike Hinduism and Islam, this coincidence of date has been fully exploited by atheists and secular humanists. They even deny the holocaust which happened in the 20th. Century. Will they spare Christmas of the First century?

 

Long before we heard about Moscow, New Delhi, London, Washington and Beijing, King David had founded Jerusalem as capital of Israel. But even today, in the 21st century, Jerusalem is still in the news.

Bethlehem where Jesus was born is a hot spot today.. The future of the world will be decided in Jerusalem. Whether it is Putin or Obama, the fate of the world hinges on the decision the world powers will be making on Jerusalem. These events were predicted by Jesus 2000 years ago, and they are happening today, including the economic crises and the nations of the world converging on Jerusalem before the launch of III World War. So Jesus is not a myth but a living God, according to Christians. Let us see how world events unfold according to the prediction of Jesus.

 

 

 

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @>yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 >Friday, February 27, 2009 2:35:35 PMRe: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

 

 

 

 

Namaste Ruthenamji,

 

Please give supporting data with concrete references and not just your imaginative assertions, which have no value at all. I am a Hindu. Can you please let know your religious affiliation too. However if you have any reservation in telling that please let me know and also let me know how much you know about your own scriptures, before dabbling in others'.

 

In your last letter you were talking vehemently about Winter Solstice. In that connection I asked to find out why December 25 was chosen as the Christmas day. Now you seem to be evading that completely. What type of scholarship is this? Reputed western scholars do not do like this. --- On Fri, 2/27/09, yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 > wrote:

yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 >Re: [WAVES-Vedic] An Important Mattersunil_bhattacharjya @, waves-vedic, "Robert E. Wilkinson" <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>Cc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com, deenbc , jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com, harimalla@rocketmai l.com, robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com, , ancient_indian_ astrologyFriday, February 27, 2009, 12:20 AM

 

 

Namaste Bhattacharjyaji

 

...

Although tradition holds that an ancient sage called Vyasa wrote the Mahabharata, it was almost certainly composed by a number of different poets and then collected into a single work sometime between 300 B.C. and A.D. 350. The epic reached its present form about 200 years later. It contains nearly 100,000 verses and is divided into 18 sections called parvans. It consists of many legends and tales revolving around the conflicts between two branches of a mythical family. The stories involve deities, demigods, and heroes. Some people foolishly argue that these legends contain elements of cosmology, philosophy, and religious doctrine Cosmology is a set of ideas about the origin,

history, and structure of the universe, and the imaginary claim of Aurobindo and others borders on insanity. They foolishly claim without any scientific evidence that the Mahabharata belongs to the Dvapar Yuga. Cosmology proves that the Ramayana is much older than the Mahabharata. It does not go beyond the Vindhyas. However, in the case of the Mahabharata, the whole of India was known and the rulers from the south also came to participate in the Mahabharata war. Paninini mentions Vasudeve, Arjuna and Yudhisthira. The Pandavas are not known to the Brhamanas. It is clear from these facts that Vyasa alone did not write the Mahaabharata. It is also quite evident from these facts that the Mahabharata is based on mythology and its heroes and heroines are not historical figures.

 

 

A section of the epic called the Bhagavad Gita is the most important religious text of Hinduism. But it was introduced at a later stage by the Gupta rulers to thwart the growing tide of Buddhism. It was interwoven by borrowing ideas from Buddhism and Christianity to give the Mahabharata the image of a religious text. There were Greek satrapies in India before Kanishka came to power. There were Indian ambassadors in the courts of Roman Emperors Augustus, Trajan, Hadrian, Constantine , Julian and Justinian. There was a flourishing Indian population permanently settled in Alexandria . The first Gupta ruler, Chandra Gupta I came to power in 319 A.D. But 300 years before the Guptas came to power, St.Thomas was in the court of Gondopharnes, and from the northwest, Thomas spread the message of Jesus to many in the northern region and finally came to Mylapore and Kerala. Although, the

Mahabharata is a war literature, the religious part in the epic was later appended by the Gupta kings by heavily borrowing from Christianity and Buddhism.

 

 

 

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @>waves-vedicCc: yeshu2004 ; vedicscience@ rediffmail. com; atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com; deenbc ; jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com; harimalla@rocketmai l.com; robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com; ; ancient_indian_ astrologyThursday, February 26, 2009 10:00:59 AM[WAVES-Vedic] An Important Matter

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry Ruthenamji,

 

There is a typo...

 

Please read the sentence "Hindus believe in one God but respecting the superiors are looked down upon by them." as "Hindus believe in one God but respecting the superiors are not looked down upon by them."

 

Regards,

 

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya--- On Wed, 2/25/09, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @> wrote:

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @> Re: Fw: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matterwaves-vedicCc: yeshu2004 , vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com, deenbc , jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com, harimalla@rocketmai l.com, robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com, , ancient_indian_ astrologyWednesday, February 25, 2009, 8:09 PM

 

 

Dear Shri Ruthenamji, You wrote : Quote The Veda, the Mahabharata war and all Sanskrit literature were brought to light by European scholars. It is cnfirmed that the Mahabharata war was a sheer myth. Unquote I know that European scholars translated the Veda and the Epics into English as they valued these and they wanted their own people to read them and that was a favour to themselves. Indians had these in Sanskrit as well as in their vernacular languages.1)Do you know that till the year 1882 the King James version of the Bible gave the year of creation as 4004 BCE, whereas the Indian texts, which you are condemning without any substantiation, gave the age of the earth as several billion years, which is the same as what the modern science says.?2)Do you know yourself as to why and from when the Christmas began to be celebrated

on December 25 when Jesus Christ himself was born on an earlier month and his year of birth is also on 4 BCE? You should know it first before you say anything about the Winter Solstice. Can you substantiate your statement that the Mahabharata war was a myth and that no such war took place at all? The Indians know how to interpret their ancient texts. The Puranas and Epics are historical texts called Itihasas, interspersed with stories and anecdotes in order to give out the Vedic truths to the masses, through them. You also said : Quote Similarly, the Vedas written by primitive people and like all primitive societies they pray to god for food, health and victory in the war. Unquote The gods in Hinduism, Buddhism (like Tara, amd Manjushri) and Jainism are like the angels of the Semitic religion. Hindus believe that they are

superior beings and they are also created by God and that they are at a higher evolutionary step than we are. The Quran also did not say that one should not seek favour from the angels. Even prophet Muhammad was complaining to the Archangel Gabriel about the latter's coming late....... to him. Hindus believe in one God but respecting the superiors are looked down upon by them. May be you do not know how to respect your superiors.. The Vedas cannot be understood by everybody and you are one of them. However if you wish to learn these then you have to go to a guru with due respect and he will teach you provided he finds you worthy of that. As regards Wilkinsonji' s mail I have replied to that in a separate mail.. Regards, Sunil K. Bhattacharjya--- On Wed, 2/25/09, yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 > wrote:yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 >Fw: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Mattersunil_bhattacharjya @, waves04@ .comCc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, "atlanta vedic" <atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com>, "hinc liz" <hinducivilization>, deenbc (AT) hotmail (DOT) com, harimalla@rocketmai l.comWednesday, February 25, 2009, 6:38 PM----- Forwarded

Message ----yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 >Robert E... Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>Thursday, February 26, 2009 8:02:06 AMRe: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter"\the March Equinox - Cosmic Dawn; the June Solstice - Cosmic Midnight; the September Equinox - Cosmic Sunset; and last but best of all, the December Solstice - Cosmic Midday or Uttarayana, the highest position of the Sun whereby as a single Ray (the lost Sun hidden by Vritra) it descends to the Earth casting no shadows" It is all nonsense that you are writing. The Veda, the Mahabharata war and all Sanskrit literature were brought to

light by European scholars. It is cnfirmed that the Mahabharata war was a sheer myth. Then how can you try to fix the date? Similarly, the Vedas written by primitive people and like all primitive societies they pray to god for food, health and victory in the war. It is sheer madness to claim philosophy and science in the primittive works.Robert E.. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>sunil_bhattacharjya @; waves-vedicCc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com; atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com; hinducivilization; deenbc ; jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com; harimalla@rocketmai l.comWednesday, February 25, 2009 9:01:08 PMRe: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter Namaste Sunil K. Bhattacharj- ji Thank you for your reply. If you would be so kind, please provide me with the exact citation where Sri Aurobindo discusses the date of the Mahabharata war. The root of your error is plainly evident. When you write that, “…for nearly twenty two centuries the Uttarayana did take place in the Makar Rashi. but we have to live in the present situation when the Uttarayana does not occur in the Makar Rashi†, you are basing your conclusions on the Nirayana Sidereal system of calendar measure with its irregular Constellations and shifting ayanamsha. This is not only unreliable

and confusing but worst of all it is un-Vedic. It directly contradicts the verses in the Rig Veda that describe “One wheel of three-hundred and sixty spokes, firmly riveted, that shake not in the least.†This ‘One Wheel’ is the eternal and unchanging Tropical zodiac or Sayana system used by the Rishis to precisely measure the Earth in its yearly passage around the ecliptic as well as a corresponding movement in the individual. The errors of the Nirayana system, to which you evidently , arose with the hegemony ofscientific relativism into the realm of the sacred when the astronomer usurped the role of the sage and seer and proclaimed objective astronomical measurement to be the final authority in calendar matters. All that you have written to support your contention that there is no meaningful connection between Makar Sankranti, the Capricorn Solstice and Uttarayana, the northward journey of Sun

is, in the final analysis, a direct contradiction of the Dharma. Open your mind and listen to the words of the world’s leading Seer and Vedic Cosmologist on these important matters: “…We speak glibly of a SANTANA Dharma, the 'eternal' Law. But what sort of eternal law, and consequent stability, can a shifting calendar provide the Hindu Samaj? The FLOATING AYANAMSHAS in vogue today, which bear no sanction in the Veda, are anything but stable and constant. Each second that passes of our Earth time causes that distant sidereal point light-years away to change position, thereby making that Ayanamsha with each passing second inoperable and inapplicable for any ritual. If the pundit is sincere to his trade, he must know this. He must know that yesterday's Ayanamsha cannot be held today as valid because IT HAS SHIFTED IN THE HEAVENS, perhaps slightly, but shifted it has. Today it is not where it was yesterday. And if we add to this the

complete impossibility to determine just where and what that Ayanamsha might be, then we understand why there is total confusion among the ranks of the pundits. And Hinduism suffers an increasingdeterioration accordingly, with each ritual that propagates this illusion. Absolutism of the eternal Dharma lies within our grasp if we take the same Journey the Veda pre-scribes, poised on the immutable four Cardinal Points: the March Equinox - Cosmic Dawn; the June Solstice - Cosmic Midnight; the September Equinox - Cosmic Sunset; and last but best of all, the December Solstice - Cosmic Midday or Uttarayana, the highest position of the Sun whereby as a single Ray (the lost Sun hidden by Vritra) it descends to the Earth casting no shadows. And therefore it is known as the period of Victory for the Aryan Warrior; or, in the larger cycles of time, as the Golden Age, the Satya Yuga. We need to understand the 'seed'

nature of the Makar Sankranti and how it can be said that this is an experience of both the Earth, the individual and of the collective Hindu Samaj, all simultaneously on that very special Solstice.. This is understood when we realise that Time itself is compressed to a seed at the De-cember Solstice. The 'shortest day of the year' has no other factual significance for inhabitants of our special planet than this: compression to a point, compaction to a seed. The light of the Sun, those divine Cows/Rays, is compressed to this point-experience of Time when its measure reaches the extremes of itself [the Solstice or SHORTEST day of the year]. And then when the [Makar] Sankranti is observed with the right 'combination' - the right harmony of the Earth to the Ecliptic - the entire Hindu Samaj connects itself through this 'seed-point' to the replenishing Source from which it originally sprang.. Today as in aeons gone by,it can drink once again of the

waters the Goddess Mahasaraswati benignly releases abroad upon the world. “Thea†Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet, THE MAKAR SANKRANTI - Winter Solstice RE Wilkinson- Sunil Bhattacharjya waves-vedic Cc: robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com ; vedicscience@ rediffmail. com ; atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com ; hinducivilization ; deenbc ; jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com ; harimalla@rocketmai l.com Tuesday, February 24, 2009 8:54 PMRe: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important MatterNamaste R.....E.Wilkinsonji , Namaste, You wrote as follows: Quote What you write is very interesting indeed but it fails to grasp the underlying truth of the Makar Sankranti and the Capricorn Gateway. Because of this, your conclusions regarding the Makar Sankranti and Winter Solstice, the Sayana and Nirayana

systems are completely incorrect.unquote On the contrary you have not understood the difference between the significance of Makara Sankranti and that of Uttarayana. You have referred to Sri Aurobindo. Starting from the day when Lele taught him how to meditate he did advance to high level of thought. But all that Sri Aurobindo said are not to be taken blindly. He said that the Mahabharata war took place in 1190 BCE and we now know that he was wrong from the archaeological evidence itself as the river Saraswati dried up much before 1190 BCE and that at the time of the Mahabharata war it was flowing and Balarama's going to the Saraswati is mentioned in the Mahabharata. . You have quoted from the Rig Veda. Agreed that Brahmanaspati (Brihaspati) did make the knowledge appear (or known) that the certain eternal worlds came into being, which open their doors with moons ( bright and dark

fortnights) and autumns (seasons) and that these (the eternal worlds) move effortlessly from one to another, but it did not link up the Makar Rashi with any season. In the Chapter 8 of the Bhagavad Gita Lord Krishna describes the path by which the yogi, who has known the Brahman departs. Lord Krishna also describes the path by which the yogi, who is disciplined but has not realised Brahman, goes. Other sources such as the Chandogya Upanishad, Baudhayana smriti, Shiva gita and Kurma purana give details of these aspects but nowhere they have linked up Makar Sankranti with Uttarayana. Different ancient texts, composed at different time periods, mention a particular season occurring at different Nakshatras which shows that the seasonsare not tied to the Nakshatras and as the Winter season starts with the Uttarayana so also the Uttarayana should also be not linked to any Nakshatra or Rashi. Makar Sankramana is about

Sankramana of the Makar rashi. As I said before that for nearly twenty two centuries the Uttarayana did take place in the Makar Rashi. but we have to live in the present situation when the Uttarayana does not occur in the Makar Rashi. If you have any doubt abiout the real meaning of rashi, please go to my last mail. Let the truth prevail. It is not late for the astrologers, who did not know this, to correct themselves and recognise that Winter Solstice need not be linked up with the Makar Sankramana. Regards, Sunil K. Bhattacharjya --- On Tue, 2/24/09, Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) . com> wrote:Robert E.... Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Mattersunil_bhattacharjya @Cc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com, HinduCalendar,

hinducivilization, waves-vedic, deenbc , jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com, harimalla@rocketmai l.comTuesday, February 24, 2009, 9:16 AM Namaste Sunil K. Bhattacharjya- ji What you write is very interesting indeed but it fails to grasp the underlying truth of the Makar Sankranti and the Capricorn Gateway. Because of this, your conclusions regarding the Makar Sankranti and Winter Solstice, the Sayana and Nirayana systems are completely incorrect. These are matters of Veda, obtained through Shruti as you mentioned. But in order to secure a higher understanding of these important matters we must go back to the Vedic scriptures themselves. As a matter of curiosity, How many of you on this study group have even read Sri Aurobindo’s “Secret of the Veda� If this group is truly about Vedic Studies, we must get serious about it and go directly to the source.

That said, there is no better authority on the Veda than Sri Aurobindo. He has plainly stated that the Vedas are the oldest extant spiritual scriptures on earth. Its name, “Veda†- the Knowledge, is the received name for the highest spiritual truth of which the human mind is capable. Over the millennia however this high knowledge became lost or corrupted. “As the Veda had passed from the sage to the priest, wrote Sri Aurobindo, so now it began to pass from the hands of the priest into the hands of the scholar. And in that keeping it suffered the last mutilation of its sense and the last diminution of its true dignity and sanctity.†What we are seeing today on WAVES is a continuation of that mutilation and diminution…not through scholars, but through self-important pseudo-scholars like Yeshu Rathenam who are given free rein to post comments that the Veda are a “worthless set of books. This has to stop!

Among the many secrets of the Veda given by the ancient sages, are precise instructions, yogic techniques, the goal of which is to help us ascend beyond our mortal mentality to the luminous truth of our being on the spiritual plane of our existence. The Rishis are quite plain spoken on this account. The secret of secrets, the greatest mystery of the Veda is a supremely enlightened state “Swar†which results from a perfect alignment of the individual with the twelve months of the sacrificial year.. "Certain eternal worlds are these which have come into being, their doors are shut to you (or opened) by the months and the years. Without effort one world moves in the other, and it is these that Brihaspati has made manifest to knowledge" Rig Veda (II.24.5) These secret eternal worlds have been closed to us by our misperception of the movement of time. The months and the years,

therefore have to be re-discovered and created in us by that same power. This, says the Rishi, is the mightiest work, the fairest achievement and it hinges on the conquest of time. “The Vedic idea was that the subconscient darkness and the ordinary life of ignorance held concealed in it all that belongs to the divine life and that these secret riches must be recovered first by destroying the impenitent powers of ignorance and then by possessing the lower life subjected to the higher.†Sri Aurobindo, Secret of the Veda (p. 238) What we are interested in writes Sri Aurobindo, is the process by which one is able to release the soul’s light and come to know and live the higher stages of the journey and in so doing, developing ‘the unity of the nine-rayed and the ten-rayed seers who by the utter thought of the soul, by the word that illumines broke open the fortified pens ...' This

then is the Vedic sacrifice: ‘ a journey; indeed the sacrifice itself is described as travelling, as journeying to a divine goal; and the journey and the sacrifice are continually spoken of as a battle against the dark powers..' Ibid, (p. 183) '. ..... . the possession of our complete divine consciousness delivered from all falsehood by the free descent of the truth, gives us the secure possession of the world of Swar and the enjoyment of mental and physical being lifted into the godhead above the darkness, falsehood and death by the in-streaming of our divine elements. This victory is won in twelve periods of the upward journey, represented by the revolution of the twelve months of the sacrificial year, the periods corresponding to the successive dawns of a wider and wider truth, until the tenth secures the victory. What may be the precise significance of the nine rays and the ten, is a more difficult question which we

are not yet in a position to solve*. But the light we have already is sufficient to illuminate all the main imagery of the Rig Veda...' Ibid (p. 182) In his Secret of the Veda, Sri Aurobindo described these worlds of Swar as “Godheads†but it was not until the cosmological discoveries made by “Thea†Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet that these symbols, Vedic “godheads†of “the nine rays and the ten†were revealed to be synonymous with and referring to the 9th and 10th months of the cosmic year: Sagittarius and Capricorn. And, according to the Rishi, it is in the Tenth Month (CAPRICORN) that the final Victory is achieved. It is for this reason and none other that the Makar Sankranti, the Capricorn Gateway, is the most important ritual date in the Hindu Calendar. Perhaps you will now understand why it is so important that the true Makar Sankranti (Winter Solstice) be observed on 21 December and not 14 January.

In the service of Truth, RE Wilkinson - Sunil Bhattacharjya Robert E.. Wilkinson Monday, February 23, 2009 7:47 PMRe: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important MatterDear Robert E. wilkinsonji, Namaste, The astrologers like AKK show concern at Makar Sankranti being observed about three weeks after the Winter Solstice but they never care to know what is the true meaning of the Makar Sankranti. Makar is the Makar rashi and Sankranti means the act of Sankraman or intrusion. So Makar Sankranti has to when the Sun enters the Makar Rashi. AKK and others never care to know why Makar Rashi is considered important. Shravana nakshatra is in the Makar rashi and this is Nakshatra ruled by Shri Hari. Shravana and Shruti has the same origin and Shruti is the Veda. Shravana is considered asthe Nakshatra of the Veda-Mata

Saraswati. Before Abhijit Nakshatra, whose ruler is Brahmaa, moved away to become the Pole-star, Abhijit used to be a Nakshatra in the makar rashi. Appropriately Makar rashi was called the Brahma rashi in the Mahabharata. Astrologically also the Makar Rashi is considered to be Rashi of Bharatvarsha. Thus the Makar Rashi has a unique position andthe Sun's entry into the Makar Rashi is an important event. Thus the Makar Sankranti has been and will be observed when the Sun enters the Makar Rashi. Now it is also true that at one time the Winter Solstice did take place in the Makar Rashi for close to twenty two centuries. Even the latitudinal line at the point of the Winter Solstice had begun to be called as the Makar Rekha or the Tropic of Capricorn and this was appropriate only as long as the Wlnter Solstice occurred in the true Makar Rashi. So AKK and others think

that Makar Sankranti and Winter Solstice are synonymous, forgetting that this can only happen only for close to twenty two centuries at a time and then wait for close to twenty four Millennia for that to reoccur. This is not to say that the Winter Solstice has no importance. The Tropical Calendar cannot do without the recognising the Winter Solstice. So the Tropical calendar has to learn to coexist with the Sidereal calendar. If those who want to observe the Winter Solstice as the Uttarayana day can observe it by all means. So let us have one additional festivalday on the Uttarayana day for those who want to onserve that rather than trying to annul the Makar Sankranti festival on the day when the Sun enters the Makar Rashi. Regards, Sunil K. Bhattacharjya --- On Mon, 2/23/09, Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>

wrote:Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Mattersunil_bhattacharjya @, harimalla@rocketmai l.comCc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com, HinduCalendar, hinducivilization, waves-vedic, deenbc , jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) comMonday, February 23, 2009, 7:55 AMNamaste Hari Mala-ji,Thank you for your response and the interesting information about the Makar. You bring up some interesting points in your letter which I feel the need to address in some detail. Let me begin with your request that those of us interested in Calendar Reform do this through a "concerted effort and if possible without changing any of the current practices and by not insisting on any particular method. It is your belief that this would be the best type of reform and acceptable to

most". I am sure you have the best of intentions but your reply reveals exactly what is WRONG with the general attitude surrounding these important matters.. Let me explain: First, it is virtually impossible to reform the calendar through a concerted effort given the wide gaps in understanding evidenced by these discussions on WAVES... I agree with you that Dr. Arya is worthy of praise but, in my opinion, the scholarship of Krishen Kaul and Yeshu Rathenam does not rise to that level. Nevertheless you would prefer that we find an inclusive solution, without changing the current practices and acceptable to most. In other words you would be comfortable with some kind of compromise that doesn’t rock the boat. You are evidently unaware that when it comes to matters of Higher Truth and the cosmological absolutes that the Veda prescribes, compromise is simply not an option. What is required is credible LEADERSHIP that can expose the

fallacious logic that so often passes for wisdom on this discussion group. What I find simply unbelievable is that many of the members of WAVES, people who supposedly have some knowledge of the Veda,accept the pretentious posturing of AKK as gospel while virtually ignoring the authoritative statements of Veda masters like Sri Aurobindo, “Thea†Patrizia-Norelli- Bachelet and Swami Dayananda Saraswati. No discrimination is made between the opinions of scholars and the direct knowledge of the sage. Naturally this results in an environment of mass confusion out of which true Calendar Reform cannot emerge. And what is the result? One of the esteemed leaders of a Vedic Temple in the US reads what I have written on calendar reform and, not being a Sanskritist or Jyotish scholar himself, he writes and asks AKK to set him straight out of his vast experience and knowledge. Here is someone who holds a position of trust and leadership in the

religious community, responsible for the spiritual guidance of others, and he has no understanding of these important matters. I have written him on several occasions to ask for a fair hearing but, because of his faith in AKK, I have not received even the courtesy of a reply. So this man, having placed his confidence in a person of no realization and preferring not to rock the boat, returns to his flock and leads them on a path of Adharma rather than make a sincere effort to establish what is and is not the truth of the Veda. Now multiply this by tens of thousands and you have some idea of the problem we must overcome tore-establish the Sanatana Dharma. So to answer your question, No! we cannot give in to compromise. No! we cannot continue the current Nirayana practices and Yes!, we must insist on the method laid down in the Veda if we are to have any meaningful reform of the Calendar. As for the names of the

temples in India that have embraced the beginnings of Calendar reform, you will find them listed on my website http://www.vediccos mology.com. In the service of truth, RE Wilkinson Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1967 - Release 2/23/2009 7:17 AMChecked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1967 - Release 2/23/2009 7:17 AM[Non-text portions of this message have been

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