An Important Matter

[Guest guest]

Sorry Ruthenamji,

 

There is a typo.

 

Please read the sentence "Hindus believe in one God but respecting the superiors are looked down upon by them." as "Hindus believe in one God but respecting the superiors are not looked down upon by them."

 

Regards,

 

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya--- On Wed, 2/25/09, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya Re: Fw: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matterwaves-vedic Cc: yeshu2004, vedicscience, atlantavedictemple, deenbc, jyotirved, harimalla, robtw, , Date: Wednesday, February 25, 2009, 8:09 PM

 

 

Dear Shri Ruthenamji, You wrote : Quote The Veda, the Mahabharata war and all Sanskrit literature were brought to light by European scholars. It is cnfirmed that the Mahabharata war was a sheer myth. Unquote I know that European scholars translated the Veda and the Epics into English as they valued these and they wanted their own people to read them and that was a favour to themselves. Indians had these in Sanskrit as well as in their vernacular languages.1)Do you know that till the year 1882 the King James version of the Bible gave the year of creation as 4004 BCE, whereas the Indian texts, which you are condemning without any substantiation, gave the age of the earth as several billion years, which is the same as what the modern science says.?2)Do you know yourself as to why and from when the Christmas began to be celebrated

on December 25 when Jesus Christ himself was born on an earlier month and his year of birth is also on 4 BCE? You should know it first before you say anything about the Winter Solstice. Can you substantiate your statement that the Mahabharata war was a myth and that no such war took place at all? The Indians know how to interpret their ancient texts. The Puranas and Epics are historical texts called Itihasas, interspersed with stories and anecdotes in order to give out the Vedic truths to the masses, through them. You also said : Quote Similarly, the Vedas written by primitive people and like all primitive societies they pray to god for food, health and victory in the war. Unquote The gods in Hinduism, Buddhism (like Tara, amd Manjushri) and Jainism are like the angels of the Semitic religion. Hindus believe that they are

superior beings and they are also created by God and that they are at a higher evolutionary step than we are. The Quran also did not say that one should not seek favour from the angels. Even prophet Muhammad was complaining to the Archangel Gabriel about the latter's coming late. to him. Hindus believe in one God but respecting the superiors are looked down upon by them. May be you do not know how to respect your superiors. The Vedas cannot be understood by everybody and you are one of them. However if you wish to learn these then you have to go to a guru with due respect and he will teach you provided he finds you worthy of that. As regards Wilkinsonji' s mail I have replied to that in a separate mail.. Regards, Sunil K. Bhattacharjya--- On Wed, 2/25/09, yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 > wrote:yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 >Fw: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Mattersunil_bhattacharjya @, waves04@ .comCc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, "atlanta vedic" <atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com>, "hinc liz" <hinducivilization>, deenbc (AT) hotmail (DOT) com, harimalla@rocketmai l.comWednesday, February 25, 2009, 6:38 PM----- Forwarded Message ----yeshu rathenam <yeshu2004 >Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>Thursday, February 26, 2009 8:02:06 AMRe: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter"\the March Equinox - Cosmic Dawn; the June Solstice - Cosmic Midnight; the September Equinox - Cosmic Sunset; and last but best of all, the December Solstice - Cosmic Midday or Uttarayana, the highest position of the Sun whereby as a single Ray (the lost Sun hidden by Vritra) it descends to the Earth casting no shadows" It is all nonsense that you are writing. The Veda, the Mahabharata war and all Sanskrit literature were

brought to light by European scholars. It is cnfirmed that the Mahabharata war was a sheer myth. Then how can you try to fix the date? Similarly, the Vedas written by primitive people and like all primitive societies they pray to god for food, health and victory in the war. It is sheer madness to claim philosophy and science in the primittive works.Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>sunil_bhattacharjya @; waves-vedicCc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com; atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com; hinducivilization; deenbc ; jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com; harimalla@rocketmai l.comWednesday, February 25, 2009 9:01:08 PMRe: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter Namaste Sunil K. Bhattacharj- ji Thank you for your reply. If you would be so kind, please provide me with the exact citation where Sri Aurobindo discusses the date of the Mahabharata war. The root of your error is plainly evident. When you write that, “…for nearly twenty two centuries the Uttarayana did take place in the Makar Rashi. but we have to live in the present situation when the

Uttarayana does not occur in the Makar Rashi†, you are basing your conclusions on the Nirayana Sidereal system of calendar measure with its irregular Constellations and shifting ayanamsha. This is not only unreliable and confusing but worst of all it is un-Vedic. It directly contradicts the verses in the Rig Veda that describe “One wheel of three-hundred and sixty spokes, firmly riveted, that shake not in the least.†This ‘One Wheel’ is the eternal and unchanging Tropical zodiac or Sayana system used by the Rishis to precisely measure the Earth in its yearly passage around the ecliptic as well as a corresponding movement in the individual. The errors of the Nirayana system, to which you evidently , arose with the hegemony ofscientific relativism into the realm of the sacred when the astronomer usurped the role of the sage and seer and proclaimed objective astronomical measurement to be the final authority in calendar

matters. All that you have written to support your contention that there is no meaningful connection between Makar Sankranti, the Capricorn Solstice and Uttarayana, the northward journey of Sun is, in the final analysis, a direct contradiction of the Dharma. Open your mind and listen to the words of the world’s leading Seer and Vedic Cosmologist on these important matters: “…We speak glibly of a SANTANA Dharma, the 'eternal' Law. But what sort of eternal law, and consequent stability, can a shifting calendar provide the Hindu Samaj? The FLOATING AYANAMSHAS in vogue today, which bear no sanction in the Veda, are anything but stable and constant. Each second that passes of our Earth time causes that distant sidereal point light-years away to change position, thereby making that Ayanamsha with each passing second inoperable and inapplicable for any ritual. If the pundit is sincere to his trade, he must know this.

He must know that yesterday's Ayanamsha cannot be held today as valid because IT HAS SHIFTED IN THE HEAVENS, perhaps slightly, but shifted it has. Today it is not where it was yesterday. And if we add to this the complete impossibility to determine just where and what that Ayanamsha might be, then we understand why there is total confusion among the ranks of the pundits. And Hinduism suffers an increasingdeterioration accordingly, with each ritual that propagates this illusion. Absolutism of the eternal Dharma lies within our grasp if we take the same Journey the Veda pre-scribes, poised on the immutable four Cardinal Points: the March Equinox - Cosmic Dawn; the June Solstice - Cosmic Midnight; the September Equinox - Cosmic Sunset; and last but best of all, the December Solstice - Cosmic Midday or Uttarayana, the highest position of the Sun whereby as a single Ray (the lost Sun hidden by Vritra) it descends to the Earth casting

no shadows. And therefore it is known as the period of Victory for the Aryan Warrior; or, in the larger cycles of time, as the Golden Age, the Satya Yuga. We need to understand the 'seed' nature of the Makar Sankranti and how it can be said that this is an experience of both the Earth, the individual and of the collective Hindu Samaj, all simultaneously on that very special Solstice.. This is understood when we realise that Time itself is compressed to a seed at the De-cember Solstice. The 'shortest day of the year' has no other factual significance for inhabitants of our special planet than this: compression to a point, compaction to a seed. The light of the Sun, those divine Cows/Rays, is compressed to this point-experience of Time when its measure reaches the extremes of itself [the Solstice or SHORTEST day of the year]. And then when the [Makar] Sankranti is observed with the right 'combination' - the right harmony of the Earth

to the Ecliptic - the entire Hindu Samaj connects itself through this 'seed-point' to the replenishing Source from which it originally sprang. Today as in aeons gone by,it can drink once again of the waters the Goddess Mahasaraswati benignly releases abroad upon the world. “Thea†Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet, THE MAKAR SANKRANTI - Winter Solstice RE Wilkinson- Sunil Bhattacharjya waves-vedic Cc: robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com ; vedicscience@ rediffmail. com ; atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com ; hinducivilization ; deenbc ; jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com ; harimalla@rocketmai l.com Tuesday, February 24, 2009 8:54 PMRe: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important MatterNamaste R.E.Wilkinsonji, Namaste, You wrote as follows: Quote What you write is very interesting indeed but it

fails to grasp the underlying truth of the Makar Sankranti and the Capricorn Gateway. Because of this, your conclusions regarding the Makar Sankranti and Winter Solstice, the Sayana and Nirayana systems are completely incorrect.unquote On the contrary you have not understood the difference between the significance of Makara Sankranti and that of Uttarayana. You have referred to Sri Aurobindo. Starting from the day when Lele taught him how to meditate he did advance to high level of thought. But all that Sri Aurobindo said are not to be taken blindly. He said that the Mahabharata war took place in 1190 BCE and we now know that he was wrong from the archaeological evidence itself as the river Saraswati dried up much before 1190 BCE and that at the time of the Mahabharata war it was flowing and Balarama's going to the Saraswati is mentioned in the Mahabharata. . You have quoted from the Rig Veda. Agreed that

Brahmanaspati (Brihaspati) did make the knowledge appear (or known) that the certain eternal worlds came into being, which open their doors with moons ( bright and dark fortnights) and autumns (seasons) and that these (the eternal worlds) move effortlessly from one to another, but it did not link up the Makar Rashi with any season. In the Chapter 8 of the Bhagavad Gita Lord Krishna describes the path by which the yogi, who has known the Brahman departs. Lord Krishna also describes the path by which the yogi, who is disciplined but has not realised Brahman, goes. Other sources such as the Chandogya Upanishad, Baudhayana smriti, Shiva gita and Kurma purana give details of these aspects but nowhere they have linked up Makar Sankranti with Uttarayana. Different ancient texts, composed at different time periods, mention a particular season occurring at different Nakshatras which shows that the seasonsare not tied to

the Nakshatras and as the Winter season starts with the Uttarayana so also the Uttarayana should also be not linked to any Nakshatra or Rashi. Makar Sankramana is about Sankramana of the Makar rashi. As I said before that for nearly twenty two centuries the Uttarayana did take place in the Makar Rashi. but we have to live in the present situation when the Uttarayana does not occur in the Makar Rashi. If you have any doubt abiout the real meaning of rashi, please go to my last mail. Let the truth prevail. It is not late for the astrologers, who did not know this, to correct themselves and recognise that Winter Solstice need not be linked up with the Makar Sankramana. Regards, Sunil K. Bhattacharjya --- On Tue, 2/24/09, Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com> wrote:Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE:

Fwd: An Important Mattersunil_bhattacharjya @Cc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com, HinduCalendar, hinducivilization, waves-vedic, deenbc , jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com, harimalla@rocketmai l.comTuesday, February 24, 2009, 9:16 AM Namaste Sunil K. Bhattacharjya- ji What you write is very interesting indeed but it fails to grasp the underlying truth of the Makar Sankranti and the Capricorn Gateway. Because of this, your conclusions regarding the Makar Sankranti and Winter Solstice, the Sayana and Nirayana systems are completely incorrect. These are matters of Veda, obtained through Shruti as you mentioned. But in order to secure a higher understanding of these important matters we must go back to the Vedic scriptures themselves. As a matter of curiosity, How many of you on this study group have even

read Sri Aurobindo’s “Secret of the Veda� If this group is truly about Vedic Studies, we must get serious about it and go directly to the source. That said, there is no better authority on the Veda than Sri Aurobindo. He has plainly stated that the Vedas are the oldest extant spiritual scriptures on earth. Its name, “Veda†- the Knowledge, is the received name for the highest spiritual truth of which the human mind is capable. Over the millennia however this high knowledge became lost or corrupted. “As the Veda had passed from the sage to the priest, wrote Sri Aurobindo, so now it began to pass from the hands of the priest into the hands of the scholar. And in that keeping it suffered the last mutilation of its sense and the last diminution of its true dignity and sanctity.†What we are seeing today on WAVES is a continuation of that mutilation and diminution…not through scholars, but through self-important

pseudo-scholars like Yeshu Rathenam who are given free rein to post comments that the Veda are a “worthless set of books. This has to stop! Among the many secrets of the Veda given by the ancient sages, are precise instructions, yogic techniques, the goal of which is to help us ascend beyond our mortal mentality to the luminous truth of our being on the spiritual plane of our existence. The Rishis are quite plain spoken on this account. The secret of secrets, the greatest mystery of the Veda is a supremely enlightened state “Swar†which results from a perfect alignment of the individual with the twelve months of the sacrificial year. "Certain eternal worlds are these which have come into being, their doors are shut to you (or opened) by the months and the years. Without effort one world moves in the other, and it is these that Brihaspati has made manifest to knowledge" Rig Veda

(II.24.5) These secret eternal worlds have been closed to us by our misperception of the movement of time. The months and the years, therefore have to be re-discovered and created in us by that same power. This, says the Rishi, is the mightiest work, the fairest achievement and it hinges on the conquest of time. “The Vedic idea was that the subconscient darkness and the ordinary life of ignorance held concealed in it all that belongs to the divine life and that these secret riches must be recovered first by destroying the impenitent powers of ignorance and then by possessing the lower life subjected to the higher.†Sri Aurobindo, Secret of the Veda (p. 238) What we are interested in writes Sri Aurobindo, is the process by which one is able to release the soul’s light and come to know and live the higher stages of the journey and in so doing, developing ‘the unity

of the nine-rayed and the ten-rayed seers who by the utter thought of the soul, by the word that illumines broke open the fortified pens ...' This then is the Vedic sacrifice: ‘ a journey; indeed the sacrifice itself is described as travelling, as journeying to a divine goal; and the journey and the sacrifice are continually spoken of as a battle against the dark powers.' Ibid, (p. 183) '. . . the possession of our complete divine consciousness delivered from all falsehood by the free descent of the truth, gives us the secure possession of the world of Swar and the enjoyment of mental and physical being lifted into the godhead above the darkness, falsehood and death by the in-streaming of our divine elements. This victory is won in twelve periods of the upward journey, represented by the revolution of the twelve months of the sacrificial year, the periods corresponding to the successive dawns of a wider and wider

truth, until the tenth secures the victory. What may be the precise significance of the nine rays and the ten, is a more difficult question which we are not yet in a position to solve*. But the light we have already is sufficient to illuminate all the main imagery of the Rig Veda.' Ibid (p. 182) In his Secret of the Veda, Sri Aurobindo described these worlds of Swar as “Godheads†but it was not until the cosmological discoveries made by “Thea†Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet that these symbols, Vedic “godheads†of “the nine rays and the ten†were revealed to be synonymous with and referring to the 9th and 10th months of the cosmic year: Sagittarius and Capricorn. And, according to the Rishi, it is in the Tenth Month (CAPRICORN) that the final Victory is achieved. It is for this reason and none other that the Makar Sankranti, the Capricorn Gateway, is the most important ritual date in the Hindu Calendar. Perhaps you will

now understand why it is so important that the true Makar Sankranti (Winter Solstice) be observed on 21 December and not 14 January. In the service of Truth, RE Wilkinson - Sunil Bhattacharjya Robert E. Wilkinson Monday, February 23, 2009 7:47 PMRe: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important MatterDear Robert E. wilkinsonji, Namaste, The astrologers like AKK show concern at Makar Sankranti being observed about three weeks after the Winter Solstice but they never care to know what is the true meaning of the Makar Sankranti. Makar is the Makar rashi and Sankranti means the act of Sankraman or intrusion. So Makar Sankranti has to when the Sun enters the Makar Rashi. AKK and others never care to know why Makar Rashi is considered important. Shravana nakshatra is in the Makar rashi and this is

Nakshatra ruled by Shri Hari. Shravana and Shruti has the same origin and Shruti is the Veda. Shravana is considered asthe Nakshatra of the Veda-Mata Saraswati. Before Abhijit Nakshatra, whose ruler is Brahmaa, moved away to become the Pole-star, Abhijit used to be a Nakshatra in the makar rashi. Appropriately Makar rashi was called the Brahma rashi in the Mahabharata. Astrologically also the Makar Rashi is considered to be Rashi of Bharatvarsha. Thus the Makar Rashi has a unique position andthe Sun's entry into the Makar Rashi is an important event. Thus the Makar Sankranti has been and will be observed when the Sun enters the Makar Rashi. Now it is also true that at one time the Winter Solstice did take place in the Makar Rashi for close to twenty two centuries. Even the latitudinal line at the point of the Winter Solstice had begun to be called as the Makar Rekha or the Tropic

of Capricorn and this was appropriate only as long as the Wlnter Solstice occurred in the true Makar Rashi. So AKK and others think that Makar Sankranti and Winter Solstice are synonymous, forgetting that this can only happen only for close to twenty two centuries at a time and then wait for close to twenty four Millennia for that to reoccur. This is not to say that the Winter Solstice has no importance. The Tropical Calendar cannot do without the recognising the Winter Solstice. So the Tropical calendar has to learn to coexist with the Sidereal calendar. If those who want to observe the Winter Solstice as the Uttarayana day can observe it by all means. So let us have one additional festivalday on the Uttarayana day for those who want to onserve that rather than trying to annul the Makar Sankranti festival on the day when the Sun enters the Makar Rashi.

Regards, Sunil K. Bhattacharjya --- On Mon, 2/23/09, Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com> wrote:Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Mattersunil_bhattacharjya @, harimalla@rocketmai l.comCc: vedicscience@ rediffmail. com, atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com, HinduCalendar, hinducivilization, waves-vedic, deenbc , jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) comMonday, February 23, 2009, 7:55 AMNamaste Hari Mala-ji,Thank you for your response and the interesting information about the Makar. You bring up some interesting points in your letter which I feel the need to address in some detail. Let me begin with your request that those of us interested in Calendar Reform do this through a "concerted effort and if possible without

changing any of the current practices and by not insisting on any particular method. It is your belief that this would be the best type of reform and acceptable to most". I am sure you have the best of intentions but your reply reveals exactly what is WRONG with the general attitude surrounding these important matters. Let me explain: First, it is virtually impossible to reform the calendar through a concerted effort given the wide gaps in understanding evidenced by these discussions on WAVES. I agree with you that Dr. Arya is worthy of praise but, in my opinion, the scholarship of Krishen Kaul and Yeshu Rathenam does not rise to that level. Nevertheless you would prefer that we find an inclusive solution, without changing the current practices and acceptable to most. In other words you would be comfortable with some kind of compromise that doesn’t rock the boat. You are evidently unaware that when it comes to matters of Higher

Truth and the cosmological absolutes that the Veda prescribes, compromise is simply not an option. What is required is credible LEADERSHIP that can expose the fallacious logic that so often passes for wisdom on this discussion group. What I find simply unbelievable is that many of the members of WAVES, people who supposedly have some knowledge of the Veda,accept the pretentious posturing of AKK as gospel while virtually ignoring the authoritative statements of Veda masters like Sri Aurobindo, “Thea†Patrizia-Norelli- Bachelet and Swami Dayananda Saraswati. No discrimination is made between the opinions of scholars and the direct knowledge of the sage. Naturally this results in an environment of mass confusion out of which true Calendar Reform cannot emerge. And what is the result? One of the esteemed leaders of a Vedic Temple in the US reads what I have written on calendar reform and, not being a Sanskritist or Jyotish scholar

himself, he writes and asks AKK to set him straight out of his vast experience and knowledge. Here is someone who holds a position of trust and leadership in the religious community, responsible for the spiritual guidance of others, and he has no understanding of these important matters. I have written him on several occasions to ask for a fair hearing but, because of his faith in AKK, I have not received even the courtesy of a reply. So this man, having placed his confidence in a person of no realization and preferring not to rock the boat, returns to his flock and leads them on a path of Adharma rather than make a sincere effort to establish what is and is not the truth of the Veda. Now multiply this by tens of thousands and you have some idea of the problem we must overcome tore-establish the Sanatana Dharma. So to answer your question, No! we cannot give in to compromise. No! we cannot continue the current Nirayana

practices and Yes!, we must insist on the method laid down in the Veda if we are to have any meaningful reform of the Calendar. As for the names of the temples in India that have embraced the beginnings of Calendar reform, you will find them listed on my website http://www.vediccos mology.com. In the service of truth, RE Wilkinson Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1967 - Release 2/23/2009 7:17 AMChecked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1967 - Release 2/23/2009 7:17 AM