[WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

February 20, 2009

--- On Thu, 2/19/09, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjyaRe: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matterwaves-vedic Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 3:19 PM

Dear Shri Kaulji,

Namaste,

1) It is wrong to say rashis are non-Vedic

This is because the "rashis' are mentioned in the puranas including the Bhagavat purana and the rashis came to be used only towards the end of the Dwapara yuga ie. towards the end of the 4th Millennium BCE. I am sure you know that the Valmiki Ramayana of the Treta yuga mentions the position of the Moon in a particular nakshatra at the time of the birth of Lord Rama. But the Adhyatma Ramayana, composed by Vedavyasa in the Dwapara yuga, mentions the position of the Sun in Mesha rashi at the time of Lord Rama's birth. You also know from the Chandogya upanishad that purana is considered to be the fifth Veda. So it is wrong to say that "Rashis" are non-Vedic. You must be aware that reading of this fifth Veda is a prerequisite for reading the four Vedas.

2) It is wrong to say that rashis are imported from Babylonia.

This is because the rashis have been used in India in the 4th Millennium BCE. You date of Varahamihira is also wrong as in Varahamihira's time Saka kala was not there . Sakakala, which Brahmagupta calls Shakanta kala, came at the end of the Shaka rule in 78 CE. Varahamihira mentions Shakendra kala, which was at the beginning of the Shaka rule Therefore my request to you is that kindly revise your Rotary document immediately.

3) Your argument towards Nirayana versus Sayana needs revision too.

This is because the "Rashi" by definition means a group. You can check that in your favourite Monier-Williams. Rashis are a group of Nakshatras. To the ancient jyotishis the twelve clusters of nakshatras in the ecliptic appeared like different figures. For example, the Vrashabha rashi appeared like a bull. This they did that by imagining some lines joining the nakshatras within the rashi. It is true that an unimaginative person may not be able to visualise the shape or form, but the nakshtras within the rashis are very real. In olden days the jyotishis were not like the arm-chair jyotishis of today. They determined the positions of the grahas and nakshatras through the naked eye. They could tell which graha was in which nakshatra and rashi. Today this system is termed as Nirayana. In olden days the seasons occurred in different rashis at different times due to the precession of the earth. Madhu and Madhava etc. occurred

at different nakshatras and rashis at different times. You know that Varahamihira too indicated this.

Further the western jyotishis concentrated their attention on the Tropical Zodiac system and imagined the fake rashis. (Please refer to the definition of rashi). However the Indian jyotishis did not give up the link between their jyotish and the nakshatras and the true rashis but they gave up observing the grahas and the nakshatras with the naked eye. So they wanted the measure of precessional shift, called "Ayanamsha" to correct the Tropical Zodiac positions of the grahas so that they can relate the corrected graha positions to the positions of the non-moving nakshatras. As the Tropical Zodiac shifts according to precession it is called Sayana (sa= with, ayana= movement) or with precessional shift. The non-moving Zodiac, ie. the original Indian system, began to be called Nirayana (Nih= no or without, ayana= movement). So you must have noticed that the word Sayana and Nirayana could not have been there in the

ancient times. Today one refers to the ancient system as the Nirayana system.

You have excessively trusted some of the western scholars, one of whom had the topic of his PhD thesis as the "Materials to prove that Indians got everything from the Greeks". Though the majority of the western scholars could be genuine there are some blacksheeps too among them. So beware of the half-baked ones among them.

With regards,

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

--- On Thu, 2/19/09, jyotirved <jyotirved wrote:

jyotirved <jyotirved[WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter"'Deen Chandora'" <deenbcCc: robtw, vedicscience, atlantavedictemple, HinduCalendar , hinducivilization , waves-vedic Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 6:17 AM

Shri Deen B. Chandoraji,

Namaskar!

My apologies for the inordinate delay in replying your mail. Actually, there was some problem with the Sify servers and it was practically impossible to download any mails for a considerable period.

Regarding streamlining the Hindu calendar, I have had quite a few discussions with both Dr. Ravi Prakash Arya in Aryasamajonline and with Dr. Robert Wilkinson in WAVES group etc. The main problem is that as there are no Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis in the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha or the Yajur Jyotisha or even the much later work Atharva Jyotisha, as will be evident from the Rotary document enclosed herewith, as such, to say that the Vedic seers were following some so called sayana Rashichakra as against the so called nirayana Rashichakra is just to make a fool of a common man, since if there are no Rashis in the Vedas, it is nothing but sheer ignorance to call them sayana or nirayana etc. etc.

Mesha etc. rashis are actually direct imports from Babylonia via the Greeks as the very first “indigenous” work talking about Rashis is the Surya Sidhanta by none other than Maya the mlechha and the “oldest” astrological work in India is Sphujidwaja’s Yavana Jatakam! Brihat Jatakam by Varahamihira (5th century AD) is almost a ditto copy of the same!

The Vedas talk of Madhu, Madhava etc. seasonal months and they are unequal divisions of time whereas the so called sayana rashis are equal divisions of ecliptic---imaginar y and unrecognized even by modern astronomy! They are thus creations of “Vedic astrologers”---Sayana rashis by “Sayana Vedic jyotishis” and nirayana ones by “nirayana Vedic jyotishis”. If somehow or the other we club sayana Mesha etc. Rashis with Madhava etc. Vedic months, we just cannot use them for Krittika etc. nakshatras and if we club nirayana Mesha etc. rashis with Ashvini, Bharni etc. nakshatras, they just cannot be clubbed with Madhu, Madhava etc. Vedic months! We have as such, to preferably eliminate Mesha etc. Rashis from ouir vocabulary if we really want to streamline our calendar in accordance with the Vedas. No doubt, we find so called Sayana Mesha, Vrisha etc. rahis being discussed in the Puranas, but it is a moot point as to how “indigenous” they are since they appear to be a post Surya Sidhanta phenomenon since we do not find any mention of any Rashis in the entire Mahabharata either (Pl. see npj3.doc). Thus Rashis have absolutely nothing to do with the Vedas and that is that! Therefore, any calendar as per Mesha etc. Sayana rashis can at best be said to be a Pauranic and/or Sidhantic calendar and not Vedic, but at the same time, it just cannot be used for the so called Vedic astrology since that cannot survive without Ashvini, Bharni etc. nakshatras, which are used to calculated bhukta-bhogya of Dasha-bhuktis! It is, as such, a Catch-22 situation for Jyotishis--- if they opt for Sayana Rashis, they have to de-link nakshatras from them completely and if they opt for so called nirayana rashis, as is being by most of the Hindu jyotishis, they are going against the letter as well as spirit of the Vedas and the Puranas! With kind regards, A K Kaul

Deen Chandora [deenbc@ ] Saturday, January 03, 2009 3:49 AMAvtar Krishen Kaul; Vishrut Arya; Robert E. WilkinsonFw: Fwd: An Important Matter

01/02/09Shri Avtar Krishan Kaul,

Namaste,

Please read this email of Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>and respond as you seem fit. I am not a Jyotish scholar nor a Sanskrit one for that matter. I take part in these Vedic related matters to bring the reality from the distortions.

I do not know what is correct answer to this email. Therefore, I am forwarding it to you. Please do respond and mail a copy to me also. Since yo u are knowledgable and has vast experience in it I am forwarding it to you.

I just get knowledge from your email writings.

Thanks, Deen B Chandora

----- Forwarded Message ----Vedic Temple <atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com>Deen Chandora <deenbc >Friday, January 2, 2009 9:54:08 AMFwd: An Important Matter

Dr. Sahab,

Please let me know what to do on this?

Regards,

Vishrut

---------- Forwarded message ----------Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 9:22 AMRe: An Important MatterRavi Arya <vedicscience@ rediffmail. com>, atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com

Dear Dr. Arya,

Thank you for your reply. I would be very interested to see your calendar. My address is: Robert E. Wilkinson, 1342 McKenzie Way South , Old Fort, NC, 28762

I am delighted that you are following the Sayana System and I feel strongly that a concerted effort be made to share this knowledge with Temples such as the Vedic Temple of Atlanta and others so that they may consciously choose to adopt the correct dates for the celebration of their rituals. Our Movement for the Restoration for Vedic Wisdom has been very successful in India with some 30 major temples returning to the Sayana dates over the past few years. The importance of this effort toward restoration to the true Vedic measure simply cannot be overstated. I just received a very precient letter from a colleague in Atlanta , who makes an important point about this Calendar matter:

"...I am concerned that : just as an individual is thrown off balance when there is a change of routine timing ie. if one is used to sleeping at 9 pm and is unable to follow that routine for a few days depending on sensitivity he/she is way off in many things: The same, I think applies to humanity as a mass and certainly earth as a whole. Unless we return to the Natural Laws of Time/calendars (the Vedic Sayana System).. humanity will continue to be de-synchronised and this is a concept that is hard for the layperson to understand and we will continue to be submerged in what we have experienced for the past 5200 years."

Will you join me in asking Dr. Chandora for an airing of these profound matters at the Atlanta Temple ? With his help, perhaps together we can begin to make the same progress in the US as we are now in India . Our Movement is also planning to make a documentary CD/ DVD which will include a detailed study of Vedic Cosmology elucidating the deep mythic and cosmic truths behind these ancient and profound rituals. I would greatly value any assistance you could provide in these important matters.

With best regards,

Robert E. Wilkinson

-

Ravi Arya

robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com

Thursday, January 01, 2009 11:39 PM

Re: An Important Matter

Dear Robert Wilkinson I am extremely happy to know about the deep interest and studies into Vedic sciences. I fully support and solicit your ideas. All calendars makers in India are avioiding the Sayana System and that is where they are erring. Our calendar follows the Sayana system. Can you give me your address where can I post the calendar and the Vedic Science , a quarterly research journal on Vedic Sciences. We in Indian foundation for Vedic Science are working on various aspects of Vedic Sciences. Dr. Ravi Prakash AryaIndian Foundation for Vedic Sciencewww.vedascience. comOn Thu, 01 Jan 2009 20:08:49 +0530 wrote

>Dear Ravi Arya,>Thank you for your reply. I am very much aware that there is an effort to retain the Nirayana system owing to its long standing usage but the indisputable fact remains that the Vedic Rishis prescribed the Sayana system for the celebration of cosmological rituals like the Makar Sankranti. The use of the Nirayana system emerged as a symbolic reflection of the drive in Indian spiritual philosophy toward Transcendentalism with its exclusive focus on the Beyond. In this case, attention was shifted to the distant Constellations and away from the Ecliptic which is the Earth's unchanging path around the Sun and which marks off the Equinoxes and the Solstices including the Makar Sankranti. The true Vedic Measure that respects the proper correspondences between the Cosmic Surround and the Earth is the Tropical Sayana system. The problem arises when

the Nirayana requires a 72 year updating based on the location on the Ayanamsha. As you may know, there are some 30 different Ayanamshas ranging in a difference of some 10 degrees. I am aware that India trys its best to respect its ancient traditions but in this case it has led to a fuzzy unfocussed awareness of the true meaning of the Makar Sankranti when the Sun moves into the Cardinal sign Capricorn and changes its direction from the Lower Hemisphere (Daksinayana) to the Upper Hemisphere (Uttarayana) . Do you have any idea why this is of such supreme importance? Do you know that India IS Capricorn? Do you know for instance why the preeminant mythological figures such as Ganga and Varuna are depicted riding on the Makar, symbol of Capricorn? >>I am including two graphics which will provide a visual confirmation of what I am saying. In one of those the Mother, who was Sri Aurobindo's yogic partner is sitting before the Capricorn Map of

Bharat Mata and saying that India alone can bring the world to peace and a new order. When you look at our world today with its chaos and confusion can you possibly imagine that this is in part the result of India's chaos and confusion because she has lost the true Vedic Measure and hence the true alignment with her National Soul? How can she possibly fulfill Sri Aurobindo's and the Mother's expected promise to the world if she continues to follow these random Nirayana ayanamshas? These are profound issues that relate to the coming of Vishnu's Dasavatars and their solomn duty to restore the Sanatana Dharma which includes the Divine Measure of the Year. As Sri Aurobindo writes:>>'It is in the revolution of the year that the recovery of the lost Sun and the lost cows [Truth-Consciousnes s] is effected, for we have the explicit statement in X.62.2, rtenabhindan parivatsare valam, "by the truth, in the revolution of the year, they broke Vala

[the Ignorance]," or, as Sayana interprets it, "by sacrifice lasting for a year."' - Sri Aurobindo, The Secret of the Veda>>>I hope you will think long and hard on these matters because the consequences to India and the world are profound. To give you just one example of the precise measure of these occult truths, the transformational planet Pluto, higher octave of Mars, the war god and symbol of Kartikeya moved into the sign/map Capricorn on 26/11 at the very instant the Mumbai attacks occurred. To the seer, this is clear evidence that the time has come for India and the Hindu samaj to step up and take a stand for the Sanatana Dharma by seeking the unvarnished facts about these eternal cosmic truths.>>In the service of Truth,>Robert E. Wilkinson>>>>>- > Ravi Arya > robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com > Thursday, January 01, 2009 3:52 AM> Re: Fw: Fwd: An Important Matter>>> Dear Robert Wilkinson> I have been forwarded your view about the revival of actual makara sankranti. We are already publishing a 'World Vedic Calerndar' which gives the actual makara sankranti as astronomical Makara Sankrant and 14 January Makara Sankranti as historical one, as the same used to take place some 2000 years ago by the time of Arya Bhatta, but since then nobody updated the calendar. A calendar is needed to be updated every 72 years. If you go through the World Vedic Calendars you will find there every updated event as the astronomical one every event based upon Niryana calculations as historical one. >>>> On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 01:52:15 +0530 wrote> >>

> Dec.29,2008Namaste, > >Please read the email contents of one of the scholars on Jyotish.> >Please go through it and I would request to please respond about it and let me know what I need to do, or how to approach it .> >Thanks> > Deen B Chandora> >> >> >Thanks, > >Deen B Chandora > >> >> >> >----- Forwarded Message ----> >Vedic Temple > >Deen Chandora ; Dhirendra Sharma > >Monday, December 29, 2008 1:28:36 PM> >Fwd: An Important Matter> >> >> >Dr. Chandora Ji/Dhirendra Ji,> >> >Please see below. For your review and comments..> >> >Regards>

>Vishrut> >> >> >---------- Forwarded message ----------> >Robert E. Wilkinson > >Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 10:35 AM> >An Important Matter> >atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com> >> >> >> >Namaste,> >Mr. Vishrut Arya> > > >I am one of the members of WAVES and have read your postings from time to time. Your association with the Atlanta Temple puts you in a unique position to bring a matter of great importance to the attention of your members. > >For the past several years I have been working with a group called the Movement for the Restoration of Vedic Wisdom. The charge of our members is to bring about a realignment of

the Hindu Calendar with those exact points in the cosmic harmonies that the Vedic Rishis carefully prescribed to bring about the lived experience of the correspondences and equivalencies designed to awaken the Hindu Soul. I am speaking most specifically about the Makar Sankranti Winter Solstice which is celebrated by most Hindus on January 14 instead of the actual Solstice date of December 21st.> > > >What must be brought before the Hindu community and summarily dealt with is the fact that the Nirayana Sidereal system of calendar measure with its irregular Constellations and shifting ayanamsha is unreliable, confusing and worst of all un-Vedic. It directly contradicts the verses in the Rig Veda that describe "One wheel of three-hundred and sixty spokes, firmly riveted, that shake not in the least." This 'One Wheel' is the eternal and unchanging Tropical zodiac or Sayana system used by the Rishis to precisely

measure the Earth in its yearly passage around the ecliptic as well as a corresponding movement in the individual.> >The errors of the Nirayana system arose with the hegemony of scientific relativism into the realm of the sacred when the astronomer usurped the role of the sage and seer and proclaimed objective astronomical measurement to be the final authority in calendar matters. Today we can see the unfortunate result of this confusion with almost the entire Hindu Samaj celebrating the Makar Sankranti and other important festivals 23 days off their true timing. How can this possibly be? The Winter Solstice - Shortest Day of the Year is not a matter of interpretation. It is an unmistakable event that occurs every year on December 21st with the change of the Sun's direction from the Lower Hemisphere (Daksinayana) to the Upper Hemisphere (Uttarayana) and into the sign Capricorn. Yet most of the Hindu community, unaware of their

error, celebrates the Makar Sankranti on January 14th some 23 days after the actual Winter Solstice. > >Fortunately, and through our efforts, the tide is turning. In what must be the first time in hundreds of years, over thirty important temples in Tamil Nadu have begun to abandon this Sidereal Post Vedic view. They are returning to the true Vedic measure with its four pillars of the Solstices and Equinoxes, and are celebrating their festivals on the precise points as laid down by the Rishis thousand of years ago. This reversal of direction represents a decisive turn in the Hindu psyche toward a restoration of the Sanatana Dharma and a Vedic renaissance. > > > >I have just returned from a trip to India where I presented a detailed Power Point program on these discrepencies. I am wondering if your temple would be interested in sponsoring a similar program for your members. Please let me

know what you think.> > > >I am attaching an article that goes more deeply into this important subject.> > > >With best regards,> >Robert Wilkinson> > > >> >> >-- > >Sincerely,> >Vishrut Arya> >Greater Atlanta Vedic Temple> > 492 Harmony Grove Rd> > Lillburn GA 30047-6573 USA> >Phone : 770-381-3662> >Email : atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com> >http://www.vedictem ple.org > >> >> >Note: We respect your Online Privacy. This is not an unsolicited mail.Under Bill s.1618 Title III passed by the

105th U.S. Congress this mail cannot be considered Spam as long as we include Contact information and a method to be removed from our mailing list. If you are not interested in receiving our e-mails then please reply with a "REMOVE" in the subject line and mention all the e-mail addresses to be removed . We sincerely regret any inconvenience> >> >> >> > >> Dr. Ravi Prakash Arya>>>>------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --->>> > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1870 - Release 12/31/2008 8:44 AM>Dr. Ravi Prakash Arya

Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1870 - Release 12/31/2008 8:44 AM

-- Sincerely,Vishrut AryaGreater Atlanta Vedic Temple492 Harmony Grove RdLillburn GA 30047-6573 USAPhone : 770-381-3662Email : atlantavedictemple@ gmail.comhttp://www.vedictem ple.org Note: We respect your Online Privacy. This is not an unsolicited mail.Under Bill s.1618 Title III passed by the 105th U.S. Congress this mail cannot be considered Spam as long as we include Contact information and a method to be removed from our mailing list. If you are not interested in receiving our e-mails then please reply with a "REMOVE" in the subject line and mention all the e-mail addresses to be removed . We sincerely regret any inconvenience

February 20, 2009

--- On Thu, 2/19/09, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya

Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

waves-vedic

Thursday, February 19, 2009, 3:19 PM

Dear Shri Kaulji,

Â

Namaste,

Â

1) It is wrong to say rashis are non-Vedic

Â

This is because the " rashis' are mentioned in the puranas including the Bhagavat

purana and the rashisÂ came to be used only towards the end of the Dwapara yuga

ie. towards the end of the 4th Millennium BCE. I am sure you know that the

Valmiki Ramayana ofÂ the Treta yuga Â mentions theÂ position of the Moon in a

particular nakshatra at the time of the birth ofÂ Lord Rama. But the Adhyatma

Ramayana, composed by Vedavyasa in the Dwapara yuga, mentions the position of

the Sun in Mesha rashi at the time of Lord Rama's birth. You also know from the

Chandogya upanishad thatÂ purana is consideredÂ to beÂ the fifth Veda. So it is

wrong to say that " Rashis " are non-Vedic. You mustÂ be awareÂ that reading of

this fifth Veda is a prerequisite forÂ reading the four Vedas.

Â

2) It is wrong to say that rashis are imported from Babylonia.

Â

This is because theÂ rashis have been used in India in the 4th Millennium BCE.

You date of Varahamihira is also wrong as in Varahamihira's time Saka kala was

not there . Sakakala, which Brahmagupta calls Shakanta kala, came at the end of

the Shaka rule in 78 CE. Varahamihira mentions Shakendra kala, which was at the

beginning of the Shaka rule Therefore my request to you is that kindly revise

your Rotary document immediately.

Â

3) Your argument towards Nirayana versus Sayana needs revision too.

Â

This is because the " Rashi " by definition means a group. You canÂ check that

inÂ your favourite Monier-Williams. Rashis are a group of Nakshatras. To the

ancient jyotishis the twelve clusters of nakshatras in the ecliptic appeared

like different figures. For example, the Vrashabha rashi appeared like a bull.

This they did that by imagining some lines joining the nakshatras within the

rashi. It is true that an unimaginative person may not be able to visualise the

shape or form, but the nakshtras within the rashis are very real. In olden days

the jyotishis were notÂ like theÂ arm-chair jyotishis of today. They determined

the positions of the grahas and nakshatras through the naked eye. They could

tell which graha was in which nakshatra and rashi. Today this system isÂ termed

asÂ Nirayana. In olden days the seasons occurred in different rashis at

different times due to the precession of the earth. Madhu and Madhava etc.

occurred

at different nakshatras and rashis at different times. You know that

Varahamihira too indicated this.

Â

Further the western jyotishis concentrated their attention on theÂ Tropical

Zodiac system and imagined the fake rashis. (Please refer to the definition of

rashi).Â HoweverÂ the Indian jyotishis did not give up the linkÂ between their

jyotish and Â the nakshatras and the true rashis but they gave up observing the

grahas and the nakshatras with the naked eye. So they wanted the measure of

precessional shift, called " Ayanamsha " Â to correct the Tropical Zodiac positions

of the grahas so that they can relate the corrected graha positions to the

positions of the non-moving nakshatras. As the Tropical Zodiac shifts according

to precession it is called Sayana (sa= with, ayana= movement)Â or with

precessional shift. The non-moving Zodiac, ie. the original Indian system, began

to be called Nirayana (Nih= no or without, ayana= movement). So you must have

noticed that the word Sayana and Nirayana could not have been there in the

ancient times. Today one refers to the ancient system as the Nirayana system.

Â

You have excessively trusted some of the western scholars, one of whom had the

topic of his PhD thesis as the " Materials to prove that Indians got everything

from the Greeks " .Â Though the majority of theÂ western scholarsÂ could

beÂ genuine there are some blacksheeps too among them. So beware of the

half-baked ones among them.

Â

With regards,

Â

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

Â

--- On Thu, 2/19/09, jyotirved <jyotirved wrote:

jyotirved <jyotirved

[WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

" 'Deen Chandora' " <deenbc

Cc: robtw, vedicscience,

atlantavedictemple, HinduCalendar ,

hinducivilization , waves-vedic

Thursday, February 19, 2009, 6:17 AM

Shri Deen B. Chandoraji,

Namaskar!

My apologies for the inordinate delay in replying your mail.Â Actually, there

was some problem with the Sify servers and it was practically impossible to

download any mails for a considerable period.

Â

Regarding streamlining the Hindu calendar, I have had quite a few discussions

with both Dr. Ravi Prakash Arya in Aryasamajonline and with Dr. Robert Wilkinson

in WAVES group etc.Â The main problem is that as there are no Mesha, Vrisha

etc. Rashis in the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha or the Yajur Jyotisha or even

the much later work Atharva Jyotisha, Â as will be evident from the Rotary

document enclosed herewith, as such, to say that the Vedic seers were following

some so called sayana Rashichakra as against the so called nirayana Rashichakra

is just to make a fool of a common man, since if there are no Rashis in the

Vedas, it is nothing but sheer ignorance to call them sayana or nirayana etc.

etc.

Mesha etc. rashis are actually direct imports from Babylonia via the Greeks as

the very first â€œindigenousâ€ work talking about Rashis is the Surya Sidhanta

by none other than Maya the mlechha and the â€œoldestâ€ astrological work in

India is Sphujidwajaâ€™s Yavana Jatakam!Â Brihat Jatakam by Varahamihira (5th

century AD) is almost a ditto copy of the same!

The Vedas talk of Madhu, Madhava etc. seasonal months and they are unequal

divisions of time whereas the so called sayana rashis are equal divisions of

ecliptic---imaginar y and unrecognized even by modern astronomy!Â They are thus

creations of â€œVedic astrologersâ€---Sayana rashis by â€œSayana Vedic

jyotishisâ€ and nirayana ones by â€œnirayana Vedic jyotishisâ€.

Â

If somehow or the other we club sayana Mesha etc. Rashis with Madhava etc. Vedic

months, we just cannot use them for Krittika etc. nakshatras and if we club

nirayana Mesha etc. rashis with Ashvini, Bharni etc. nakshatras, they just

cannot be clubbed with Madhu, Madhava etc. Vedic months!Â We have as such, to

preferably eliminate Mesha etc. Rashis from ouir vocabulary if we really want to

streamline our calendar in accordance with the Vedas.

Â

No doubt, we find so called Sayana Mesha, Vrisha etc. rahis being discussed in

the Puranas, but it is a moot point as to how â€œindigenousâ€ they are since

they appear to be a post Surya Sidhanta phenomenon since we do not find any

mention of any Rashis in the entire Mahabharata either (Pl. see npj3.doc).

Thus Rashis have absolutely nothing to do with the Vedas and that is that!Â

Therefore, any calendar as per Â Mesha etc. Sayana rashis can at best be said to

be a Pauranic and/or Sidhantic calendar and not Vedic, but at the same time, it

just cannot be used for the so called Vedic astrology since that cannot survive

without Ashvini, Bharni etc.Â nakshatras, which are used to calculated

bhukta-bhogya of Dasha-bhuktis!Â It is, as such, a Catch-22 situation for

Jyotishis--- if they opt for Sayana Rashis, they have to de-link nakshatras from

them completely and if they opt for so called nirayana rashis, as is being by

most of the Hindu jyotishis, they are going against the letter as well as spirit

of the Vedas and the Puranas!

With kind regards,

A K Kaul

Â

Deen Chandora [deenbc@ ]

Saturday, January 03, 2009 3:49 AM

Avtar Krishen Kaul; Vishrut Arya; Robert E. Wilkinson

Fw: Fwd: An Important Matter

Â

01/02/09

Shri Avtar Krishan Kaul,

Namaste,

Please read this email of Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>

and respond as you seem fit. I am notÂ a Jyotish scholar nor a Sanskrit one for

that matter. I take part in these Vedic related matters to bring the realityÂ

from the distortions.

Â

I do not know what is correct answer to this email. Therefore, I am forwarding

it to you. Please do respond and mail a copy to me also. SinceÂ yo u are

knowledgable and has vast experience in it I am forwarding itÂ to you.

I just get knowledge from your email writings.

Thanks,

Deen B Chandora

Â

----- Forwarded Message ----

Vedic Temple <atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com>

Deen Chandora <deenbc >

Friday, January 2, 2009 9:54:08 AM

Fwd: An Important Matter

Dr. Sahab,

Â

Please let me know what to do on this?

Â

Regards,

Vishrut

---------- Forwarded message ----------

Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com>

Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 9:22 AM

Re: An Important Matter

Ravi Arya <vedicscience@ rediffmail. com>, atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com

Dear Dr. Arya,

Â

Thank you for your reply. I would be very interested to see your calendar. My

address is:Â Robert E. Wilkinson, 1342 McKenzie Way South , Old Fort, NC, 28762

I am delighted that you are following the Sayana System and I feel strongly that

a concerted effort be made to share this knowledge with Temples such as the

Vedic Temple of Atlanta and others so that they may consciously choose to adopt

the correct dates for the celebration of their rituals.Â Our Movement for the

Restoration for Vedic Wisdom hasÂ been very successful in India with some 30

major temples returning to the Sayana datesÂ over the past few years.Â The

importance of this effort towardÂ restoration to the true Vedic

measureÂ simplyÂ cannot be overstated. I just received a very precientÂ letter

from a colleague in Atlanta ,Â whoÂ makes an important pointÂ about this

Calendar matter:

Â

" ...I am concerned that : just as an individual is thrown off balance when there

is a change of routine timing ie. if one is used to sleeping at 9Â pm and is

unable to follow that routine for a few days depending on sensitivity he/she is

way off in many things: The same, I think applies to humanity as a mass and

certainly earth as a whole. Unless we return to the Natural Laws of

Time/calendars (the Vedic Sayana System).. humanity will continue to

beÂ de-synchronised and this is a concept that is hard for the layperson to

understand and we will continue to be submerged in what we have experienced for

the past 5200 years. "

Â

Will you join me in asking Dr. Chandora for an airing of these profound matters

at the Atlanta Temple ?Â With his help, perhaps together we can begin to make

the sameÂ progress in the US as we are nowÂ in India .Â Our Movement isÂ also

planning to make a documentary CD/ DVD which will include a detailed study of

Vedic Cosmology elucidating the deep mythic and cosmic truths behind these

ancient and profoundÂ rituals.Â I would greatly value any assistance you could

provide in these importantÂ matters.

Â

With best regards,

Â

Robert E. Wilkinson

Â

-

Ravi Arya

robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com

Thursday, January 01, 2009 11:39 PM

Re: An Important Matter

Â

Dear Robert Wilkinson

I am extremely happy to know about the deep interest and studies into Vedic

sciences. I fully support and solicit your ideas. All calendars makers in India

are avioiding the Sayana System and that is where they are erring. Our calendar

follows the Sayana system. Can you give me your address where can I post the

calendar and the Vedic Science , a quarterly research journal on Vedic Sciences.

We in Indian foundation for Vedic Science are working on various aspects of

Vedic Sciences.

Dr. Ravi Prakash Arya

Indian Foundation for Vedic Science

www.vedascience. com

On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 20:08:49 +0530 wrote

>Dear Ravi Arya,

>Thank you for your reply. I am very much aware that there is an effort to

retain the Nirayana system owing to its long standing usage but the indisputable

fact remains that the Vedic Rishis prescribed the Sayana system for the

celebration of cosmological rituals like the Makar Sankranti. The use of the

Nirayana system emerged as a symbolic reflection of the drive in Indian

spiritual philosophy toward Transcendentalism with its exclusive focus on the

Beyond. In this case, attention was shifted to the distant Constellations and

away from the Ecliptic which is the Earth's unchanging path around the Sun and

which marks off the Equinoxes and the Solstices including the Makar Sankranti.

The true Vedic Measure that respects the proper correspondences between the

Cosmic Surround and the Earth is the Tropical Sayana system. The problem arises

when

the Nirayana requires a 72 year updating based on the location on the

Ayanamsha. As you may know, there are some 30 different Ayanamshas ranging in a

difference of some 10 degrees. I am aware that India trys its best to respect

its ancient traditions but in this case it has led to a fuzzy unfocussed

awareness of the true meaning of the Makar Sankranti when the Sun moves into the

Cardinal sign Capricorn and changes its direction from the Lower Hemisphere

(Daksinayana) to the Upper Hemisphere (Uttarayana) . Do you have any idea why

this is of such supreme importance? Do you know that India IS Capricorn? Do you

know for instance why the preeminant mythological figures such as Ganga and

Varuna are depicted riding on the Makar, symbol of Capricorn?

>

>I am including two graphics which will provide a visual confirmation of what I

am saying. In one of those the Mother, who was Sri Aurobindo's yogic partner is

sitting before the Capricorn Map of

Bharat Mata and saying that India alone can bring the world to peace and a new

order. When you look at our world today with its chaos and confusion can you

possibly imagine that this is in part the result of India's chaos and confusion

because she has lost the true Vedic Measure and hence the true alignment with

her National Soul? How can she possibly fulfill Sri Aurobindo's and the Mother's

expected promise to the world if she continues to follow these random Nirayana

ayanamshas? These are profound issues that relate to the coming of Vishnu's

Dasavatars and their solomn duty to restore the Sanatana Dharma which includes

the Divine Measure of the Year. As Sri Aurobindo writes:

>

>'It is in the revolution of the year that the recovery of the lost Sun and the

lost cows [Truth-Consciousnes s] is effected, for we have the explicit statement

in X.62.2, rtenabhindan parivatsare valam, " by the truth, in the revolution of

the year, they broke Vala

[the Ignorance], " or, as Sayana interprets it, " by sacrifice lasting for a

year. " ' Â Â Â Â - Sri Aurobindo, The Secret of the Veda

>

>I hope you will think long and hard on these matters because the consequences

to India and the world are profound. To give you just one example of the precise

measure of these occult truths, the transformational planet Pluto, higher octave

of Mars, the war god and symbol of Kartikeya moved into the sign/map Capricorn

on 26/11 at the very instant the Mumbai attacks occurred. To the seer, this is

clear evidence that the time has come for India and the Hindu samaj to step up

and take a stand for the Sanatana Dharma by seeking the unvarnished facts about

these eternal cosmic truths.

>

>In the service of Truth,

>Robert E. Wilkinson

>

>-

> Â Ravi Arya

> Â robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com

> Â Thursday, January 01, 2009 3:52 AM

> Â Re: Fw: Fwd: An Important Matter

>

> Â Dear Robert Wilkinson

> Â I have been forwarded your view about the revival of actual makara

sankranti. We are already publishing a 'World Vedic Calerndar' which gives the

actual makara sankranti as astronomical Makara Sankrant and 14 January Makara

Sankranti as historical one, as the same used to take place some 2000 years ago

by the time of Arya Bhatta, but since then nobody updated the calendar. A

calendar is needed to be updated every 72 years. If you go through the World

Vedic Calendars you will find there every updated event as the astronomical one

every event based upon Niryana calculations as historical one.

>

> Â On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 01:52:15 +0530 wrote

> Â >

>

Â > Dec.29,2008Namaste,

> Â >Please read the email contents of one of the scholars on Jyotish.

> Â >Please go through it and I would request to please respond about it and let

me know what I need to do, or how to approach it .

> Â >Thanks

> Â > Deen B Chandora

> Â >

> Â >Thanks,

> Â >Deen B Chandora

> Â >

> Â >----- Forwarded Message ----

> Â >Vedic Temple

> Â >Deen Chandora ;Â Dhirendra Sharma

> Â >Monday, December 29, 2008 1:28:36 PM

> Â >Fwd: An Important Matter

> Â >

> Â >Dr. Chandora Ji/Dhirendra Ji,

> Â >

> Â >Please see below. For your review and comments..

> Â >

> Â >Regards

>

Â >Vishrut

> Â >

> Â >---------- Forwarded message ----------

> Â >Robert E. Wilkinson

> Â >Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 10:35 AM

> Â >An Important Matter

> Â >atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com

> Â >

> Â >Namaste,

> Â >Mr. Vishrut Arya

> Â >

> Â >I am one of the members of WAVES and have read your postings from time to

time. Your association with the Atlanta Temple puts you in a unique position to

bring a matter of great importance to the attention of your members.

> Â >For the past several years I have been working with a group called the

Movement for the Restoration of Vedic Wisdom. The charge of our members is to

bring about a realignment of

the Hindu Calendar with those exact points in the cosmic harmonies that the

Vedic Rishis carefully prescribed to bring about the lived experience of the

correspondences and equivalencies designed to awaken the Hindu Soul. I am

speaking most specifically about the Makar Sankranti Â Winter Solstice which is

celebrated by most Hindus on January 14 instead of the actual Solstice date of

December 21st.

> Â >

> Â >What must be brought before the Hindu community and summarily dealt with is

the fact that the Nirayana Sidereal system of calendar measure with its

irregular Constellations and shifting ayanamsha is unreliable, confusing and

worst of all un-Vedic. It directly contradicts the verses in the Rig Veda that

describe Â " One wheel of three-hundred and sixty spokes, firmly riveted, that

shake not in the least. " This 'One Wheel' is the eternal and unchanging Tropical

zodiac or Sayana system used by the Rishis to precisely

measure the Earth in its yearly passage around the ecliptic as well as a

corresponding movement in the individual.

> Â >The errors of the Nirayana system arose with the hegemony of scientific

relativism into the realm of the sacred when the astronomer usurped the role of

the sage and seer and proclaimed objective astronomical measurement to be the

final authority in calendar matters. Today we can see the unfortunate result of

this confusion with almost the entire Hindu Samaj celebrating the Makar

Sankranti and other important festivals 23 days off their true timing. Â How can

this possibly be? The Winter Solstice - Shortest Day of the Year is not a matter

of interpretation. It is an unmistakable event that occurs every year on

December 21st with the change of the Sun's direction from the Lower Hemisphere

(Daksinayana) to the Upper Hemisphere (Uttarayana) and into the sign Capricorn.

Yet most of the Hindu community, unaware of their

error, celebrates the Makar Sankranti on January 14th some 23 days after the

actual Winter Solstice. Â Â

> Â >Fortunately, and through our efforts, the tide is turning. In what must be

the first time in hundreds of years, over thirty important temples in Tamil Nadu

have begun to abandon this Sidereal Post Vedic view. They are returning to the

true Vedic measure with its four pillars of the Solstices and Equinoxes, and are

celebrating their festivals on the precise points as laid down by the Rishis

thousand of years ago. This reversal of direction represents a decisive turn in

the Hindu psyche toward a restoration of the Sanatana Dharma and a Vedic

renaissance. Â

> Â >

> Â >I have just returned from a trip to India where I presented a detailed

Power Point program on these discrepencies. I am wondering if your temple would

be interested in sponsoring a similar program for your members. Please let me

know what you think.

> Â >

> Â >I am attaching an article that goes more deeply into this important

subject.

> Â >

> Â >With best regards,

> Â >Robert Wilkinson

> Â >

> Â >--

> Â >Sincerely,

> Â >Vishrut Arya

> Â >Greater Atlanta Vedic Temple

> Â > 492 Harmony Grove Rd

> Â > Lillburn GA 30047-6573 USA

> Â >Phone :Â 770-381-3662

> Â >Email :Â atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com

> Â >http://www.vedictem ple.org

> Â >

> Â >Note: We respect your Online Privacy. This is not an unsolicited mail.Under

Bill s.1618 Title III passed by the

105th U.S. Congress this mail cannot be considered Spam as long as we include

Contact information and a method to be removed from our mailing list. If you are

not interested in receiving our e-mails then please reply with a " REMOVE " in the

subject line and mention all the e-mail addresses to be removed . We sincerely

regret any inconvenience

> Â >

> Â > Â Â Â

>

> Â Dr. Ravi Prakash Arya

>

>------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

--------- ---

>

> Â

> Â Checked by AVG.

> Â Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1870 - Release 12/31/2008

8:44 AM

>

Dr. Ravi Prakash Arya

Checked by AVG.

Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1870 - Release 12/31/2008 8:44

AM

--

Sincerely,

Vishrut Arya

Greater Atlanta Vedic Temple

492 Harmony Grove Rd

Lillburn GA 30047-6573 USA

Phone : 770-381-3662

Email : atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com

http://www.vedictem ple.org

Note: We respect your Online Privacy. This is not an unsolicited mail.Under Bill

s.1618 Title III passed by the 105th U.S. Congress this mail cannot be

considered Spam as long as we include Contact information and a method to be

removed from our mailing list. If you are not interested in receiving our

e-mails then please reply with a " REMOVE " in the subject line and mention all

the e-mail addresses to be removed . We sincerely regret any

inconvenience

Â

February 25, 2009

On Tue, 2/24/09, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjyaRe: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

Namaste R.E.Wilkinsonji,

Namaste,

You wrote as follows:

Quote

What you write is very interesting indeed but it fails to grasp the underlying truth of the Makar Sankranti and the Capricorn Gateway. Because of this, your conclusions regarding the Makar Sankranti and Winter Solstice, the Sayana and Nirayana systems are completely incorrect.

unquote

On the contrary you have not understood the difference between the significance of Makara Sankranti and that of Uttarayana. You have referred to Sri Aurobindo. Starting from the day when Lele taught him how to meditate he did advance to high level of thought. But all that Sri Aurobindo said are not to be taken blindly. He said that the Mahabharata war took place in 1190 BCE and we now know that he was wrong from the archaeological evidence itself as the river Saraswati dried up much before 1190 BCE and that at the time of the Mahabharata war it was flowing and Balarama's going to the Saraswati is mentioned in the Mahabharata..

You have quoted from the Rig Veda. Agreed that Brahmanaspati (Brihaspati) did make the knowledge appear (or known) that the certain eternal worlds came into being, which open their doors with moons ( bright and dark fortnights) and autumns (seasons) and that these (the eternal worlds) move effortlessly from one to another, but it did not link up the Makar Rashi with any season. In the Chapter 8 of the Bhagavad Gita Lord Krishna describes the path by which the yogi, who has known the Brahman departs. Lord Krishna also describes the path by which the yogi, who is disciplined but has not realised Brahman, goes. Other sources such as the Chandogya Upanishad, Baudhayana smriti, Shiva gita and Kurma purana give details of these aspects but nowhere they have linked up Makar Sankranti with Uttarayana. Different ancient texts, composed at different time periods, mention a particular season occurring at different

Nakshatras which shows that the seasons are not tied to the Nakshatras and as the Winter season starts with the Uttarayana so also the Uttarayana should also be not linked to any Nakshatra or Rashi. Makar Sankramana is about Sankramana of the Makar rashi. As I said before that for nearly twenty two centuries the Uttarayana did take place in the Makar Rashi. but we have to live in the present situation when the Uttarayana does not occur in the Makar Rashi. If you have any doubt abiout the real meaning of rashi, please go to my last mail.

Let the truth prevail. It is not late for the astrologers, who did not know this, to correct themselves and recognise that Winter Solstice need not be linked up with the Makar Sankramana.

Regards,

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

February 25, 2009

Dear Shri R.E.Wilkinsonji,

Namaste,

You have forgotten that the issue under discussion was that there was not established permanent / eternal link between the Makar Rashi and the Uttarayana and that the Uttarayana occurs in the Makar Rashi for about twenty two centuries at a time and it reccurs only after a huge time gap of a number of millennia.

You are writing to me as if you do not know the difference between the Sidereal calendar and the Tropical calendar. I have already explained in my earlier post that in the ancient times the word "Nirayana" was not used as there was no need for it and so also the word "Ayanamsha" too was not used. Only when the astronomers gave up watching the sky then they started depending on the observation of the relative solar positions for finding out the Ayanamsha so that they can find the Sidereal positions without looking at the sky. The past Siddhantas need correction from time to time and observation of the sky was mandatory in the ancient times.

For your information the nakshatras are not termed irregular. They are fixed and they were recognised as where they are. You have forgotten about the twelve equal divisions while talking about the 360 spokes. These tweve divisions have the groups of Nakshatras (Rashi) and I have explained the nomeclature of these in the earlier post. The Nirayana Zodiac is too divided into 360 degrees and each Rashi has a spread of 30 degrees.

Regards,

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

February 26, 2009

ï»¿

Dear Sunil K. Bhattacharjya-ji,

I have made it abundantly clear that the eternal and unchanging link between the Makar Sankranti, the Winter Solstice and the Uttaranya is based upon the Tropical Sayana Zodiac which was exactly what was prescribed by the Vedic Rishis. I have explained in detail why this is true and its significance to the question of Calendar reform. The deepest proofs of what I have written here are gained by the lived experience of these cyclic correspondences attuned to the true Sayana Vedic Calendar. I see no point in discussing this any further. My advice to you Sunil-ji is that you should accept what you cannot understand in total humility and not argue about things of which you have no direct knowledge.

RW

-

Sunil Bhattacharjya

waves-vedic ; robtw

Cc: vedicscience ; atlantavedictemple ; deenbc ; jyotirved ; harimalla ; ;

Wednesday, February 25, 2009 5:58 PM

Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

Dear Shri R.E.Wilkinsonji,

Namaste,

You have forgotten that the issue under discussion was that there was not established permanent / eternal link between the Makar Rashi and the Uttarayana and that the Uttarayana occurs in the Makar Rashi for about twenty two centuries at a time and it reccurs only after a huge time gap of a number of millennia.

You are writing to me as if you do not know the difference between the Sidereal calendar and the Tropical calendar. I have already explained in my earlier post that in the ancient times the word "Nirayana" was not used as there was no need for it and so also the word "Ayanamsha" too was not used. Only when the astronomers gave up watching the sky then they started depending on the observation of the relative solar positions for finding out the Ayanamsha so that they can find the Sidereal positions without looking at the sky. The past Siddhantas need correction from time to time and observation of the sky was mandatory in the ancient times.

For your information the nakshatras are not termed irregular. They are fixed and they were recognised as where they are. You have forgotten about the twelve equal divisions while talking about the 360 spokes. These tweve divisions have the groups of Nakshatras (Rashi) and I have explained the nomeclature of these in the earlier post. The Nirayana Zodiac is too divided into 360 degrees and each Rashi has a spread of 30 degrees.

Regards,

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

you are basing your conclusions on the Nirayana Sidereal system of calendar measure with its irregular Constellations and shifting ayanamsha. This is not only unreliable and confusing but worst of all it is un-Vedic. It directly contradicts the verses in the Rig Veda that describe â€œOne wheel of three-hundred and sixty spokes, firmly riveted, that shake not in the least.â€ --- On Wed, 2/25/09, Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw wrote:

Robert E. Wilkinson <robtwRe: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Mattersunil_bhattacharjya, waves-vedic Cc: vedicscience, atlantavedictemple, hinducivilization ,deenbc, jyotirved, harimallaDate: Wednesday, February 25, 2009, 7:31 AM

ï»¿

Namaste Sunil K. Bhattacharj-ji

Thank you for your reply. If you would be so kind, please provide me with the exact citation where Sri Aurobindo discusses the date of the Mahabharata war.

The root of your error is plainly evident. When you write that, â€œâ€¦for nearly twenty two centuries the Uttarayana did take place in the Makar Rashi. but we have to live in the present situation when the Uttarayana does not occur in the Makar Rashiâ€ , you are basing your conclusions on the Nirayana Sidereal system of calendar measure with its irregular Constellations and shifting ayanamsha. This is not only unreliable and confusing but worst of all it is un-Vedic. It directly contradicts the verses in the Rig Veda that describe â€œOne wheel of three-hundred and sixty spokes, firmly riveted, that shake not in the least.â€ This â€˜One Wheelâ€™ is the eternal and unchanging Tropical zodiac or Sayana system used by the Rishis to precisely measure the Earth in its yearly passage around the ecliptic as well as a corresponding movement in the individual. The errors of the Nirayana system, to which you evidently , arose with the hegemony of scientific relativism into the realm of the sacred when the astronomer usurped the role of the sage and seer and proclaimed objective astronomical measurement to be the final authority in calendar matters. All that you have written to support your contention that there is no meaningful connection between Makar Sankranti, the Capricorn Solstice and Uttarayana, the northward journey of Sun is, in the final analysis, a direct contradiction of the Dharma. Open your mind and listen to the words of the worldâ€™s leading Seer and Vedic Cosmologist on these important matters: â€œâ€¦We speak glibly of a SANTANA Dharma, the 'eternal' Law. But what sort of eternal law, and consequent stability, can a shifting calendar provide the Hindu Samaj? The FLOATING AYANAMSHAS in vogue today, which bear no sanction in the Veda, are anything but stable and constant. Each second that passes of our Earth time causes that distant sidereal point light-years away to change position, thereby making that Ayanamsha with each passing second inoperable and inapplicable for any ritual. If the pundit is sincere to his trade, he must know this. He must know that yesterday's Ayanamsha cannot be held today as valid because IT HAS SHIFTED IN THE HEAVENS, perhaps slightly, but shifted it has. Today it is not where it was yesterday. And if we add to this the complete impossibility to determine just where and what that Ayanamsha might be, then we understand why there is total confusion among the ranks of the pundits. And Hinduism suffers an increasing deterioration accordingly, with each ritual that propagates this illusion. Absolutism of the eternal Dharma lies within our grasp if we take the same Journey the Veda pre-scribes, poised on the immutable four Cardinal Points: the March Equinox - Cosmic Dawn; the June Solstice - Cosmic Midnight; the September Equinox - Cosmic Sunset; and last but best of all, the December Solstice - Cosmic Midday or Uttarayana, the highest position of the Sun whereby as a single Ray (the lost Sun hidden by Vritra) it descends to the Earth casting no shadows. And therefore it is known as the period of Victory for the Aryan Warrior; or, in the larger cycles of time, as the Golden Age, the Satya Yuga. We need to understand the 'seed' nature of the Makar Sankranti and how it can be said that this is an experience of both the Earth, the individual and of the collective Hindu Samaj, all simultaneously on that very special Solstice. This is understood when we realise that Time itself is compressed to a seed at the De-cember Solstice. The 'shortest day of the year' has no other factual significance for inhabitants of our special planet than this: compression to a point, compaction to a seed. The light of the Sun, those divine Cows/Rays, is compressed to this point-experience of Time when its measure reaches the extremes of itself [the Solstice or SHORTEST day of the year]. And then when the [Makar] Sankranti is observed with the right 'combination' - the right harmony of the Earth to the Ecliptic - the entire Hindu Samaj connects itself through this 'seed-point' to the replenishing Source from which it originally sprang. Today as in aeons gone by, it can drink once again of the waters the Goddess Mahasaraswati benignly releases abroad upon the world. â€œTheaâ€ Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet, THE MAKAR SANKRANTI - Winter Solstice RE Wilkinson

-

Sunil Bhattacharjya

waves-vedic

Cc: robtw ; vedicscience ; atlantavedictemple ; hinducivilization ; deenbc ; jyotirved ; harimalla

Tuesday, February 24, 2009 8:54 PM

Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

Namaste R.E.Wilkinsonji,

Namaste,

You wrote as follows:

Quote

What you write is very interesting indeed but it fails to grasp the underlying truth of the Makar Sankranti and the Capricorn Gateway. Because of this, your conclusions regarding the Makar Sankranti and Winter Solstice, the Sayana and Nirayana systems are completely incorrect.

unquote

On the contrary you have not understood the difference between the significance of Makara Sankranti and that of Uttarayana. You have referred to Sri Aurobindo. Starting from the day when Lele taught him how to meditate he did advance to high level of thought. But all that Sri Aurobindo said are not to be taken blindly. He said that the Mahabharata war took place in 1190 BCE and we now know that he was wrong from the archaeological evidence itself as the river Saraswati dried up much before 1190 BCE and that at the time of the Mahabharata war it was flowing and Balarama's going to the Saraswati is mentioned in the Mahabharata..

You have quoted from the Rig Veda. Agreed that Brahmanaspati (Brihaspati) did make the knowledge appear (or known) that the certain eternal worlds came into being, which open their doors with moons ( bright and dark fortnights) and autumns (seasons) and that these (the eternal worlds) move effortlessly from one to another, but it did not link up the Makar Rashi with any season. In the Chapter 8 of the Bhagavad Gita Lord Krishna describes the path by which the yogi, who has known the Brahman departs. Lord Krishna also describes the path by which the yogi, who is disciplined but has not realised Brahman, goes. Other sources such as the Chandogya Upanishad, Baudhayana smriti, Shiva gita and Kurma purana give details of these aspects but nowhere they have linked up Makar Sankranti with Uttarayana. Different ancient texts, composed at different time periods, mention a particular season occurring at different Nakshatras which shows that the seasons are not tied to the Nakshatras and as the Winter season starts with the Uttarayana so also the Uttarayana should also be not linked to any Nakshatra or Rashi. Makar Sankramana is about Sankramana of the Makar rashi. As I said before that for nearly twenty two centuries the Uttarayana did take place in the Makar Rashi. but we have to live in the present situation when the Uttarayana does not occur in the Makar Rashi. If you have any doubt abiout the real meaning of rashi, please go to my last mail.

Let the truth prevail. It is not late for the astrologers, who did not know this, to correct themselves and recognise that Winter Solstice need not be linked up with the Makar Sankramana.

Regards,

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

--- On Tue, 2/24/09, Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw wrote:

Robert E. Wilkinson <robtwRe: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Mattersunil_bhattacharjyaCc: vedicscience, atlantavedictemple, HinduCalendar , hinducivilization , waves-vedic , deenbc, jyotirved, harimallaDate: Tuesday, February 24, 2009, 9:16 AM

ï»¿

Namaste Sunil K. Bhattacharjya-ji

What you write is very interesting indeed but it fails to grasp the underlying truth of the Makar Sankranti and the Capricorn Gateway. Because of this, your conclusions regarding the Makar Sankranti and Winter Solstice, the Sayana and Nirayana systems are completely incorrect. These are matters of Veda, obtained through Shruti as you mentioned. But in order to secure a higher understanding of these important matters we must go back to the Vedic scriptures themselves.

As a matter of curiosity, How many of you on this study group have even read Sri Aurobindoâ€™s â€œSecret of the Vedaâ€? If this group is truly about Vedic Studies, we must get serious about it and go directly to the source. That said, there is no better authority on the Veda than Sri Aurobindo. He has plainly stated that the Vedas are the oldest extant spiritual scriptures on earth. Its name, â€œVedaâ€ - the Knowledge, is the received name for the highest spiritual truth of which the human mind is capable. Over the millennia however this high knowledge became lost or corrupted. â€œAs the Veda had passed from the sage to the priest, wrote Sri Aurobindo, so now it began to pass from the hands of the priest into the hands of the scholar. And in that keeping it suffered the last mutilation of its sense and the last diminution of its true dignity and sanctity.â€ What we are seeing today on WAVES is a continuation of that mutilation and diminutionâ€¦ not through scholars, but through self-important pseudo-scholars like Yeshu Rathenam who are given free rein to post comments that the Veda are a â€œworthless set of books. This has to stop!

Among the many secrets of the Veda given by the ancient sages, are precise instructions, yogic techniques, the goal of which is to help us ascend beyond our mortal mentality to the luminous truth of our being on the spiritual plane of our existence. The Rishis are quite plain spoken on this account. The secret of secrets, the greatest mystery of the Veda is a supremely enlightened state â€œSwarâ€ which results from a perfect alignment of the individual with the twelve months of the sacrificial year.

"Certain eternal worlds are these which have come into being, their doors are shut to you (or opened) by the months and the years. Without effort one world moves in the other, and it is these that Brihaspati has made manifest to knowledge" Rig Veda (II.24.5)

These secret eternal worlds have been closed to us by our misperception of the movement of time. The months and the years, therefore have to be re-discovered and created in us by that same power. This, says the Rishi, is the mightiest work, the fairest achievement and it hinges on the conquest of time.

â€œThe Vedic idea was that the subconscient darkness and the ordinary life of ignorance held concealed in it all that belongs to the divine life and that these secret riches must be recovered first by destroying the impenitent powers of ignorance and then by possessing the lower life subjected to the higher.â€ Sri Aurobindo, Secret of the Veda (p. 238)

What we are interested in writes Sri Aurobindo, is the process by which one is able to release the soulâ€™s light and come to know and live the higher stages of the journey and in so doing, developing â€˜the unity of the nine-rayed and the ten-rayed seers who by the utter thought of the soul, by the word that illumines broke open the fortified pens ...' This then is the Vedic sacrifice: â€˜ a journey; indeed the sacrifice itself is described as travelling, as journeying to a divine goal; and the journey and the sacrifice are continually spoken of as a battle against the dark powers.' Ibid, (p. 183)

'. . . the possession of our complete divine consciousness delivered from all falsehood by the free descent of the truth, gives us the secure possession of the world of Swar and the enjoyment of mental and physical being lifted into the godhead above the darkness, falsehood and death by the in-streaming of our divine elements. This victory is won in twelve periods of the upward journey, represented by the revolution of the twelve months of the sacrificial year, the periods corresponding to the successive dawns of a wider and wider truth, until the tenth secures the victory. What may be the precise significance of the nine rays and the ten, is a more difficult question which we are not yet in a position to solve*. But the light we have already is sufficient to illuminate all the main imagery of the Rig Veda.' Ibid (p. 182)

In his Secret of the Veda, Sri Aurobindo described these worlds of Swar as â€œGodheadsâ€ but it was not until the cosmological discoveries made by â€œTheaâ€ Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet that these symbols, Vedic â€œgodheadsâ€ of â€œthe nine rays and the tenâ€ were revealed to be synonymous with and referring to the 9th and 10th months of the cosmic year: Sagittarius and Capricorn. And, according to the Rishi, it is in the Tenth Month (CAPRICORN) that the final Victory is achieved. It is for this reason and none other that the Makar Sankranti, the Capricorn Gateway, is the most important ritual date in the Hindu Calendar. Perhaps you will now understand why it is so important that the true Makar Sankranti (Winter Solstice) be observed on 21 December and not 14 January.

In the service of Truth,

RE Wilkinson

-

Sunil Bhattacharjya

Robert E. Wilkinson

Monday, February 23, 2009 7:47 PM

Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

Dear Robert E. wilkinsonji,

Namaste,

The astrologers like AKK show concern at Makar Sankranti being observed about three weeks after the Winter Solstice but they never care to know what is the true meaning of the Makar Sankranti. Makar is the Makar rashi and Sankranti means the act of Sankraman or intrusion. So Makar Sankranti has to when the Sun enters the Makar Rashi. AKK and others never care to know why Makar Rashi is considered important. Shravana nakshatra is in the Makar rashi and this is Nakshatra ruled by Shri Hari. Shravana and Shruti has the same origin and Shruti is the Veda. Shravana is considered asthe Nakshatra of the Veda-Mata Saraswati. Before Abhijit Nakshatra, whose ruler is Brahmaa, moved away to become the Pole-star, Abhijit used to be a Nakshatra in the makar rashi. Appropriately Makar rashi was called the Brahma rashi in the Mahabharata. Astrologically also the Makar Rashi is considered to be Rashi of Bharatvarsha. Thus the Makar Rashi has a unique position and the Sun's entry into the Makar Rashi is an important event. Thus the Makar Sankranti has been and will be observed when the Sun enters the Makar Rashi.

Now it is also true that at one time the Winter Solstice did take place in the Makar Rashi for close to twenty two centuries. Even the latitudinal line at the point of the Winter Solstice had begun to be called as the Makar Rekha or the Tropic of Capricorn and this was appropriate only as long as the Wlnter Solstice occurred in the true Makar Rashi. So AKK and others think that Makar Sankranti and Winter Solstice are synonymous, forgetting that this can only happen only for close to twenty two centuries at a time and then wait for close to twenty four Millennia for that to reoccur. This is not to say that the Winter Solstice has no importance. The Tropical Calendar cannot do without the recognising the Winter Solstice. So the Tropical calendar has to learn to coexist with the Sidereal calendar. If those who want to observe the Winter Solstice as the Uttarayana day can observe it by all means. So let us have one additional festival day on the Uttarayana day for those who want to onserve that rather than trying to annul the Makar Sankranti festival on the day when the Sun enters the Makar Rashi.

Regards,

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

--- On Mon, 2/23/09, Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw wrote:

Robert E. Wilkinson <robtwRe: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Mattersunil_bhattacharjya, harimallaCc: vedicscience, atlantavedictemple, HinduCalendar , hinducivilization , waves-vedic , deenbc, jyotirvedDate: Monday, February 23, 2009, 7:55 AM

Namaste Hari Mala-ji,

Thank you for your response and the interesting information about the Makar.

You bring up some interesting points in your letter which I feel the need to address in some detail. Let me begin with your request that those of us interested in Calendar Reform do this through a "concerted effort and if possible without changing any of the current practices and by not insisting on any particular method. It is your belief that this would be the best type of reform and acceptable to most".

I am sure you have the best of intentions but your reply reveals exactly what is WRONG with the general attitude surrounding these important matters. Let me explain:

First, it is virtually impossible to reform the calendar through a concerted effort given the wide gaps in understanding evidenced by these discussions on WAVES. I agree with you that Dr. Arya is worthy of praise but, in my opinion, the scholarship of Krishen Kaul and Yeshu Rathenam does not rise to that level. Nevertheless you would prefer that we find an inclusive solution, without changing the current practices and acceptable to most. In other words you would be comfortable with some kind of compromise that doesnâ€™t rock the boat. You are evidently unaware that when it comes to matters of Higher Truth and the cosmological absolutes that the Veda prescribes, compromise is simply not an option. What is required is credible LEADERSHIP that can expose the fallacious logic that so often passes for wisdom on this discussion group. What I find simply unbelievable is that many of the members of WAVES, people who supposedly have some knowledge of the Veda, accept the pretentious posturing of AKK as gospel while virtually ignoring the authoritative statements of Veda masters like Sri Aurobindo, â€œTheaâ€ Patrizia-Norelli-Bachelet and Swami Dayananda Saraswati. No discrimination is made between the opinions of scholars and the direct knowledge of the sage. Naturally this results in an environment of mass confusion out of which true Calendar Reform cannot emerge.

And what is the result? One of the esteemed leaders of a Vedic Temple in the US reads what I have written on calendar reform and, not being a Sanskritist or Jyotish scholar himself, he writes and asks AKK to set him straight out of his vast experience and knowledge. Here is someone who holds a position of trust and leadership in the religious community, responsible for the spiritual guidance of others, and he has no understanding of these important matters. I have written him on several occasions to ask for a fair hearing but, because of his faith in AKK, I have not received even the courtesy of a reply. So this man, having placed his confidence in a person of no realization and preferring not to rock the boat, returns to his flock and leads them on a path of Adharma rather than make a sincere effort to establish what is and is not the truth of the Veda. Now multiply this by tens of thousands and you have some idea of the problem we must overcome to re-establish the Sanatana Dharma.

So to answer your question, No! we cannot give in to compromise. No! we cannot continue the current Nirayana practices and Yes!, we must insist on the method laid down in the Veda if we are to have any meaningful reform of the Calendar.

As for the names of the temples in India that have embraced the beginnings of Calendar reform, you will find them listed on my website http://www.vediccosmology.com.

In the service of truth,

RE Wilkinson

Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1967 - Release 2/23/2009 7:17 AM

February 26, 2009

Dear R.W.Wilkinsonji,

Â

Your assertions do not prove anything. Prove to me by quoting any ancient text

if the Makar Sankranti was observed on the Winter Solstice day when theÂ Winter

Solstice occurred in the the Kumbha rashi or the Meena Rashi or even theÂ Mesha

rashi.Â Your verbosity would not prove you right.Â Please do not take it as an

insult and better accept with grace that Makar Sankranti has nothing to do with

the Winter Solstice even though the Winter Solstice also has its own merit and

importance. There is no point in arguing with an adamant person lijke you.

Â

Regards nonetheless,

Â

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

--- On Thu, 2/26/09, Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw wrote:

Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw

Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

sunil_bhattacharjya, waves-vedic

Cc: vedicscience, atlantavedictemple, deenbc,

jyotirved, harimalla,

,

Thursday, February 26, 2009, 5:11 AM

ï»¿

Dear Sunil K. Bhattacharjya-ji,

Â

I have made it abundantly clear that the eternal and unchanging link between the

Makar Sankranti, the Winter Solstice and the Uttaranya is based upon the

Tropical Sayana Zodiac which was exactly what was prescribed by the Vedic

Rishis. I have explained in detail why this is true and its significance to the

question of Calendar reform.Â The deepestÂ proofs of what I have written here

are gained by the lived experience of these cyclic correspondences attuned to

the true Sayana Vedic Calendar. I see no point in discussing this any further.

My advice to you Sunil-ji is that you should accept what you cannot understand

in total humility and not argue about things of which you have no direct

knowledge.

Â

RW

Â

-

Sunil Bhattacharjya

waves-vedic ; robtw

Cc: vedicscience ; atlantavedictemple ;

deenbc ; jyotirved ; harimalla ;

;

Wednesday, February 25, 2009 5:58 PM

Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

Dear Shri R.E.Wilkinsonji,

Â

Namaste,

Â

You have forgotten that the issue under discussion was that there was not

established permanent / eternal link between the Makar Rashi and the Uttarayana

and that the Uttarayana occurs in the Makar Rashi for about twenty two centuries

at a time and it reccurs only after a huge time gap of a number of millennia.

Â

You are writing to me as if you do notÂ know the difference between the Sidereal

calendar and the Tropical calendar. IÂ have already explained in my earlier post

that Â in the ancient times the word " Nirayana " was not used as there was no

need for it and so also the word " Ayanamsha " too was not used. Only when the

astronomers gave up watching the sky then they started depending on the

observation of the relative solarÂ Â positions for finding out the Ayanamsha so

that they can find the Sidereal positions without looking at the sky.Â The past

Siddhantas need correction from time to time and observation of the sky was

mandatory in the ancient times.

Â

For your information the nakshatras are not termed irregular. They are fixed and

they were recognised as where they are. You have forgotten about the twelve

equal divisions while talking about the 360 spokes. These tweve divisions have

the groupsÂ of Nakshatras (Rashi) and I have explained the nomeclature of these

in the earlier post. The Nirayana Zodiac is too divided into 360 degrees and

each Rashi has a spread of 30 degrees.

Â

Regards,

Â

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

Â

you are basing your conclusions on the Nirayana Sidereal system of calendar

measure with its irregular Constellations and shifting ayanamsha. This is not

only unreliable and confusing but worst of all it is un-Vedic. It directly

contradicts the verses in the Rig Veda that describeÂ â€œOne wheel of

three-hundred and sixty spokes, firmly riveted, that shake not in the least.â€

--- On Wed, 2/25/09, Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw wrote:

Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw

Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

sunil_bhattacharjya, waves-vedic

Cc: vedicscience, atlantavedictemple,Â

hinducivilization ,deenbc, jyotirved,

harimalla

Wednesday, February 25, 2009, 7:31 AM

ï»¿

Namaste Sunil K. Bhattacharj-ji

Â

Thank you for your reply. If you would be so kind, please provide me with the

exact citation where Sri Aurobindo discusses the date of the Mahabharata war.

The root of your error is plainly evident. When you write that, â€œâ€¦for nearly

twenty twoÂ centuries the Uttarayana did take place in the Makar Rashi. but we

have to live in the present situation when the Uttarayana does not occur in the

Makar Rashiâ€ , you are basing your conclusions on the Nirayana Sidereal system

of calendar measure with its irregular Constellations and shifting ayanamsha.

This is not only unreliable and confusing but worst of all it is un-Vedic. It

directly contradicts the verses in the Rig Veda that describeÂ â€œOne wheel of

three-hundred and sixty spokes, firmly riveted, that shake not in the least.â€

This â€˜One Wheelâ€™ is the eternal and unchanging Tropical zodiac or Sayana

system used by the Rishis to precisely measure the Earth in its yearly passage

around the ecliptic as well as a corresponding movement in the individual. The

errors of the Nirayana system, to which you evidently ,Â arose with the

hegemony of

scientific relativism into the realm of the sacred when the astronomer usurped

the role of the sage and seer and proclaimed objective astronomical measurement

to be the final authority in calendar matters.

Â Â Â

All that you have written to support your contention that there is no meaningful

connection between Makar Sankranti, the Capricorn Solstice and Uttarayana, the

northward journey of Sun is, in the final analysis, a direct contradiction of

the Dharma. Open your mind and listen to the words of the worldâ€™s leading Seer

and Vedic Cosmologist on these important matters:

â€œâ€¦We speak glibly of a SANTANA Dharma, the 'eternal' Law. But what sort of

eternal law, and consequent stability, can a shifting calendar provide the Hindu

Samaj? The FLOATING AYANAMSHAS in vogue today, which bear no sanction in the

Veda, are anything but stable and constant. Each second that passes of our Earth

time causes that distant sidereal point light-years away to change position,

thereby making that Ayanamsha with each passing second inoperable and

inapplicable for any ritual. If the pundit is sincere to his trade, he must know

this. He must know that yesterday's Ayanamsha cannot be held today as valid

because IT HAS SHIFTED IN THE HEAVENS, perhaps slightly, but shifted it has.

Today it is not where it was yesterday. And if we add to this the complete

impossibility to determine just where and what that Ayanamsha might be, then we

understand why there is total confusion among the ranks of the pundits. And

Hinduism suffers an increasing

deterioration accordingly, with each ritual that propagates this illusion.

Â Absolutism of the eternal Dharma lies within our grasp if we take the same

Journey the Veda pre-scribes, poised on the immutable four Cardinal Points: the

March Equinox - Cosmic Dawn; the June Solstice - Cosmic Midnight; the September

Equinox - Cosmic Sunset; and last but best of all, the December Solstice -

Cosmic Midday or Uttarayana, the highest position of the Sun whereby as a single

Ray (the lost Sun hidden by Vritra) it descends to the Earth casting no shadows.

And therefore it is known as the period of Victory for the Aryan Warrior; or, in

the larger cycles of time, as the Golden Age, the Satya Yuga.

Â Â Â We need to understand the 'seed' nature of the Makar Sankranti and how it

can be said that this is an experience of both the Earth, the individual and of

the collective Hindu Samaj, all simultaneously on that very special Solstice.

This is understood when we realise that Time itself is compressed to a seed at

the De-cember Solstice. The 'shortest day of the year' has no other factual

significance for inhabitants of our special planet than this: compression to a

point, compaction to a seed. The light of the Sun, those divine Cows/Rays, is

compressed to this point-experience of Time when its measure reaches the

extremes of itself [the Solstice or SHORTEST day of the year]. And then when the

[Makar] Sankranti is observed with the right 'combination' - the right harmony

of the Earth to the Ecliptic - the entire Hindu Samaj connects itself through

this 'seed-point' to the replenishing Source from which it originally sprang.

Today as in aeons gone by,

it can drink once again of the waters the Goddess Mahasaraswati benignly

releases abroad upon the world. â€œTheaâ€ Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet, THE MAKAR

SANKRANTI - Winter Solstice Â

RE Wilkinson

-

Sunil Bhattacharjya

waves-vedic

Cc: robtw ; vedicscience ;

atlantavedictemple ; hinducivilization ;

deenbc ; jyotirved ; harimalla

Tuesday, February 24, 2009 8:54 PM

Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

Namaste R.E.Wilkinsonji,

Â

Namaste,

Â

You wrote as follows:

Â

Quote

Â

What you write is very interesting indeed but it fails to grasp the underlying

truth of the Makar Sankranti and the Capricorn Gateway. Because of this, your

conclusions regarding the Makar Sankranti and Winter Solstice, the Sayana and

Nirayana systems are completely incorrect.

unquote

Â

On the contrary you have not understood the difference between the significance

of Makara Sankranti and that of Uttarayana. You have referred to Sri Aurobindo.

Starting from the dayÂ when Lele taught him how to meditate he did advance to

high level of thought. But all that Sri Aurobindo said are not to be taken

blindly. He said that the Mahabharata war took place in 1190 BCE and we now know

that he was wrong from the archaeological evidence itself as the

riverÂ Saraswati dried up much before 1190 BCE and that at the time of the

Mahabharata war it was flowing and Balarama'sÂ going to the Saraswati is

mentioned in the Mahabharata..

Â

You have quoted from the Rig Veda. Agreed that Brahmanaspati (Brihaspati)Â did

make the knowledge appear (or known) that the certain eternal worlds came into

being, which open their doors with moons ( bright and dark fortnights)Â and

autumns (seasons) and that these (the eternal worlds) move effortlessly from one

to another, butÂ it did not link up the Makar Rashi with any season. In the

Chapter 8 of the Bhagavad Gita Lord Krishna describes the path by which the

yogi, who has known the Brahman departs. Lord Krishna also describes the path by

which the yogi, who is disciplined but has not realised Brahman, goes. Other

sources such as the Chandogya Upanishad, Baudhayana smriti, Shiva gita and

Â Kurma purana give details of these aspects but nowhere they have linked up

Makar Sankranti with Uttarayana. Different ancient texts, composed atÂ different

time periods, Â mentionÂ a particular season occurring at different Nakshatras

which shows that the seasons

are not tied to the Nakshatras and as the Winter season starts with the

Uttarayana so also the Uttarayana should also be not linked to any Nakshatra or

Rashi. Makar Sankramana is about Sankramana of the Makar rashi. Â As I said

before that for nearly twenty twoÂ centuries the Uttarayana did take place in

the Makar Rashi. but we have to live in the present situation when the

Uttarayana does not occur in the Makar Rashi. If you have any doubtÂ abiout the

real meaning of rashi, please go to my last mail.

Â

Let the truth prevail. It is not late for the astrologers, who did not know

this, to correct themselves and recognise that Winter Solstice need not be

linked up with the Makar Sankramana.

Â

Regards,

Â

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

Â

--- On Tue, 2/24/09, Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw wrote:

Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw

Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

sunil_bhattacharjya

Cc: vedicscience, atlantavedictemple,

HinduCalendar , hinducivilization ,

waves-vedic , deenbc, jyotirved,

harimalla

Tuesday, February 24, 2009, 9:16 AM

ï»¿

Namaste Sunil K. Bhattacharjya-ji

What you write is very interesting indeed but it fails to grasp the underlying

truth of the Makar Sankranti and the Capricorn Gateway. Because of this, your

conclusions regarding the Makar Sankranti and Winter Solstice, the Sayana and

Nirayana systems are completely incorrect. These are matters of Veda, obtained

through Shruti as you mentioned. But in order to secure a higher understanding

of these important matters we must go back to the Vedic scriptures themselves.

As a matter of curiosity, How many of you on this study group have even read Sri

Aurobindoâ€™s Â â€œSecret of the Vedaâ€? If this group is truly about Vedic

Studies, we must get serious about it and go directly to the source. Â That

said, there is no better authority on the Veda than Sri Aurobindo. He has

plainly stated that the Vedas are the oldest extant spiritual scriptures on

earth. Its name, â€œVedaâ€ -Â the Knowledge, is the received name for the

highest spiritual truth of which the human mind is capable.Â Over the millennia

however this high knowledge became lost or corrupted. â€œAs the Veda had passed

from the sage to the priest, wrote Sri Aurobindo, so now it began to pass from

the hands of the priest into the hands of the scholar. And in that keeping it

suffered the last mutilation of its sense and the last diminution of its true

dignity and sanctity.â€ What we are seeing today on WAVES is a continuation of

that mutilation and diminutionâ€¦

not through scholars, but through self-important pseudo-scholars like Yeshu

Rathenam who are given free rein to post comments that the Veda are a

â€œworthless set of books. This has to stop!

Among the many secrets of the Veda given by the ancient sages, are precise

instructions, yogic techniques, the goal of which is to help us ascend beyond

our mortal mentality to the luminous truth of our being on the spiritual plane

of our existence. The Rishis are quite plain spoken on this account. The secret

of secrets, the greatest mystery of the Veda is a supremely enlightened state

â€œSwarâ€ which results from a perfect alignment of the individual with the

twelve months of the sacrificial year. Â

" Certain eternal worlds are these which have come into being, their doors are

shut to you (or opened) by the months and the years. Without effort one world

moves in the other, and it is these that Brihaspati has made manifest to

knowledge " Rig VedaÂ Â (II.24.5)

These secret eternal worlds have been closed to us by our misperception of the

movement of time. The months and the years, therefore have to be re-discovered

and created in us by that same power. This, says the Rishi, is the mightiest

work, the fairest achievement and it hinges on the conquest of time.

â€œThe Vedic idea was that the subconscient darkness and the ordinary life of

ignorance held concealed in it all that belongs to the divine life and that

these secret riches must be recovered first by destroying the impenitent powers

of ignorance and then by possessing the lower life subjected to the higher.â€

Sri Aurobindo, Secret of the Veda (p. 238)

What we are interested in writes Sri Aurobindo, is the process by whichÂ one is

able to release the soulâ€™s light and come to know and live theÂ higherÂ stages

of the journey and in so doing, developing â€˜the unity of the nine-rayed and

the ten-rayed seers who by the utter thought of the soul, by the word that

illumines broke open the fortified pens ...'Â This then is the Vedic sacrifice:

â€˜ a journey; indeed the sacrifice itself is described as travelling, as

journeying to a divine goal; and the journey and the sacrifice are continually

spoken of as a battle against the dark powers.' Ibid, (p. 183)

Â '. . . the possession of our complete divine consciousness delivered from all

falsehood by the free descent of the truth, gives us the secure possession of

the world of Swar and the enjoyment of mental and physical being lifted into the

godhead above the darkness, falsehood and death by the in-streaming of our

divine elements. This victory is won in twelve periods of the upward journey,

represented by the revolution of the twelve months of the sacrificial year, the

periods corresponding to the successive dawns of a wider and wider truth, until

the tenth secures the victory. What may be the precise significance of the nine

rays and the ten, is a more difficult question which we are not yet in a

position to solve*. But the light we have already is sufficient to illuminate

all the main imagery of the Rig Veda.' Ibid (p. 182)

In his Secret of the Veda, Sri Aurobindo described these worlds of Swar as

â€œGodheadsâ€ but it was not until the cosmological discoveries made by

â€œTheaâ€ Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet that these symbols, Vedic â€œgodheadsâ€ of

â€œthe nine rays and the tenâ€ were revealed to be synonymous with and

referring to the 9th and 10th months of the cosmic year: Sagittarius and

Capricorn. And, according to the Rishi, it is in the Tenth Month (CAPRICORN)

that the final Victory is achieved. It is for this reason and none other that

the Makar Sankranti, the Capricorn Gateway, is the most important ritual date in

the Hindu Calendar. Perhaps you will now understand why it is so important that

the true Makar Sankranti (Winter Solstice) be observed on 21 December and not 14

January.

In the service of Truth,

RE Wilkinson

-

Sunil Bhattacharjya

Robert E. Wilkinson

Monday, February 23, 2009 7:47 PM

Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

Dear Robert E. wilkinsonji,

Â

Namaste,

Â

The astrologers like AKKÂ show concern at Makar Sankranti being observed about

three weeks after the Winter Solstice but theyÂ never care to know what is the

true meaning of the Makar Sankranti. Makar is the Makar rashi and Sankranti

means the act of Sankraman or intrusion. So Makar Sankranti has to when the Sun

enters the Makar Rashi.Â AKK and others never care to know why Makar Rashi is

considered important. Shravana nakshatra is in the Makar rashi and this is

Nakshatra ruled by Shri Hari. Shravana and Shruti has the same origin and Shruti

is the Veda. Shravana is considered asthe Nakshatra of the Veda-Mata Saraswati.

Before Abhijit Nakshatra, whose ruler is Brahmaa, moved away to become the

Pole-star, Abhijit used to be aÂ Nakshatra in the makar rashi.Â Appropriately

Makar rashi was called the Brahma rashi in the Mahabharata. Â Astrologically

also the Makar Rashi is considered to be Rashi of Bharatvarsha. Thus the Makar

Rashi has a unique position and

the Sun's entry into the Makar Rashi is an important event.Â Thus the Makar

Sankranti has been and will be observed when the Sun enters the Makar Rashi.

Â

Now it is also true that at one time the Winter SolsticeÂ didÂ take placeÂ in

the Makar RashiÂ for close to twenty two centuries. Even the latitudinal line

at the point of the Winter SolsticeÂ had begun to be calledÂ asÂ the Makar Rekha

or the Tropic of Capricorn and this was appropriate only as long as theÂ Wlnter

Solstice occurred inÂ the true Makar Rashi.Â So AKK and others think that Makar

Sankranti and Winter Solstice are synonymous, forgetting that this can only

happen only for close to twenty two centuries at a time and then wait for close

to twenty four MillenniaÂ for that to reoccur. This is not to say that

theÂ Winter Solstice hasÂ no importance.Â The Tropical Calendar cannot do

without theÂ recognising the Winter Solstice. So the Tropical calendarÂ has to

learn to coexist with the Sidereal calendar. If thoseÂ who want to observe the

WinterÂ Solstice as the Uttarayana day can observe it by all means. So let us

have one additional festival

dayÂ on theÂ Uttarayana day for those who want to onserve that rather than

trying to annul the Makar Sankranti festival on the day when the Sun enters the

Makar Rashi.

Â

Regards,

Â

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

Â

--- On Mon, 2/23/09, Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw wrote:

Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw

Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

sunil_bhattacharjya, harimalla

Cc: vedicscience, atlantavedictemple,

HinduCalendar , hinducivilization ,

waves-vedic , deenbc, jyotirved

Monday, February 23, 2009, 7:55 AM

Namaste Hari Mala-ji,

Thank you for your response and the interesting information about the Makar.

You bring up some interesting points in your letter which I feel the need to

address in some detail. Let me begin with your request that those of us

interested in Calendar Reform do this through a " concerted effort and if

possible without changing any of the current practices and by not insisting on

any particular method. It is your belief that this would be the best type of

reform and acceptable to most " .

I am sure you have the best of intentions but your reply reveals exactly what is

WRONG with the general attitude surrounding these important matters. Let me

explain:

First, it is virtually impossible to reform the calendar through a concerted

effort given the wide gaps in understanding evidenced by these discussions on

WAVES. Â I agree with you that Dr. Arya is worthy of praise but, in my opinion,

the scholarship of Krishen Kaul and Yeshu Rathenam does not rise to that level.

Nevertheless you would prefer that we find an inclusive solution, without

changing the current practices and acceptable to most. In other words you would

be comfortable with some kind of compromise that doesnâ€™t rock the boat. You

are evidently unaware that when it comes to matters of Higher Truth and the

cosmological absolutes that the Veda prescribes, compromise is simply not an

option. What is required is credible LEADERSHIP that can expose the fallacious

logic that so often passes for wisdom on this discussion group. What I find

simply unbelievable is that many of the members of WAVES, people who supposedly

have some knowledge of the Veda,

accept the pretentious posturing of AKK as gospel while virtually ignoring the

authoritative statements of Veda masters like Sri Aurobindo, â€œTheaâ€

Patrizia-Norelli-Bachelet and Swami Dayananda Saraswati. Â No discrimination is

made between the opinions of scholars and the direct knowledge of the sage.

Naturally this results in an environment of mass confusion out of which true

Calendar Reform cannot emerge.

And what is the result? One of the esteemed leaders of a Vedic Temple in the US

reads what I have written on calendar reform and, not being a Sanskritist or

Jyotish scholar himself, he writes and asks AKK to set him straight out of his

vast experience and knowledge. Here is someone who holds a position of trust and

leadership in the religious community, responsible for the spiritual guidance of

others, and he has no understanding of these important matters. I have written

him on several occasions to ask for a fair hearing but, because of his faith in

AKK, I have not received even the courtesy of a reply. So this man, having

placed his confidence inÂ a personÂ of no realizationÂ and preferring not to

rock the boat, returns to his flock and leads them on a path of Adharma rather

than make a sincere effort to establish what is and is not the truth of the

Veda. Now multiply this by tens of thousands and you have some idea of the

problem we must overcome to

re-establish the Sanatana Dharma.Â

So to answer your question, No! we cannot give in to compromise. No! we cannot

continue the current Nirayana practices and Yes!, we must insist on the method

laid down in the Veda if we are to have any meaningful reform of the Calendar.

As for the names of the temples in India that have embraced the beginnings of

Calendar reform, you will find them listed on my website

http://www.vediccosmology.com.

In the service of truth,

RE Wilkinson

Â

Checked by AVG.

Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1967 - Release 2/23/2009 7:17

AM

Checked by AVG.

Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1967 - Release 2/23/2009 7:17

AM

Checked by AVG.

Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1967 - Release 2/23/2009 7:17

AM

Sign In

[WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

Recommended Posts

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Join the conversation

Support the Ashram

Join Groups

Top Downloads